1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:33,079 The the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 2 00:00:34,560 --> 00:01:34,159 the the the the the the the the the distant. Then the the the 3 00:01:37,120 --> 00:02:28,800 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the dot. 4 00:02:30,120 --> 00:03:04,120 They then tried the the the the the the the the the the the 5 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:50,919 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 6 00:03:52,400 --> 00:04:31,160 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 7 00:04:33,399 --> 00:05:25,319 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 8 00:05:28,279 --> 00:06:06,560 the the the the the the the the the the All right, what's up? 9 00:06:06,639 --> 00:06:13,560 Welcome, it's another day stream. I enjoy the day streams because it 10 00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:20,399 turns out the audience is actually pretty active from like two to five. And 11 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:24,439 I guess that's why jim Bob streams at this time. I hope I'm not 12 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,759 interrupting Jimbob. He seems to have been streaming for a while, so I 13 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,120 figured it would be a little bit before we actually got started. And the 14 00:06:36,199 --> 00:06:39,800 there's always something happened, like every time I'm about to start a stream. 15 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:46,560 Every day, it's like, oh suddenly there's this faux crisis with whatever is 16 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:54,240 going on with annoying things like bills and whatnot. I've also added, of 17 00:06:54,319 --> 00:06:59,319 course, the the bitcoin wallets to support. If you want to support, 18 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,000 you can do so via the bitcoin wallet that is in the show description. 19 00:07:03,759 --> 00:07:09,279 I've had various bitcoin links there before, and then I always forget to put 20 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,160 up a new address. So there's that, and I think I will add 21 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,319 the QR for those that don't know. You can also support and send bitcoin 22 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:27,879 via these convenient QR codes. So if you want to support via BTC, 23 00:07:28,199 --> 00:07:35,160 there's the QR right there, and maybe I should make it sensible by putting 24 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:40,560 it in the right spot. So today I thought I was in the mood 25 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:45,480 for open forum, and as you know, the way on BEFOREUM usually works 26 00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:49,240 is that we open it up for anybody who has a disagreement, a challenge, 27 00:07:49,759 --> 00:07:54,639 a topic to debate. You can have the flour. You can speak 28 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,199 for as long as you'd like, within reason. That means that you can't 29 00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:03,800 hog the microphone ramble about nonsense for an hour. It means that you get 30 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:11,040 the microphone to make arguments. That means that you present some kind of thesis, 31 00:08:11,319 --> 00:08:15,399 some kind of supporting evidence, some kind of logical argument. There's different 32 00:08:15,439 --> 00:08:18,360 types of arguments. Different things are proven in different ways. As We've pointed 33 00:08:18,439 --> 00:08:24,560 out many times, so you're welcome to do that. If you don't do 34 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,519 that, you will not last very long. I will call you out. 35 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,000 I will bring you back to the point. I will not let you continue 36 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,360 to ramble. You're gonna accuse me of being mean, say that I'm interrupting. 37 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,799 I'm gonna be interrupting and calling you back to the point when you're not 38 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,639 making an argument. I'm not interrupting for the sake of interrupting. You have 39 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:52,320 to make consistent, coherent, logical, cogent arguments. There is elements of 40 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:58,039 debate which are called rhetoric. There are elements that includes joking around, jabs, 41 00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:03,639 make looking fun at times. That's part of rhetoric. If you can't 42 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:09,399 handle that, then you're not prepared for actual formal debate. So we're gonna 43 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:15,799 hold you to the standards of the way classical formal debates usually go. That 44 00:09:15,919 --> 00:09:18,480 does not mean you act soy. It doesn't mean that you act like you're 45 00:09:18,879 --> 00:09:24,440 I don't know what, some sort of disgusting, distasteful, pharisee whatever. 46 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:31,679 All of that stuff is zero tolerance policy here. We don't negotiate with We 47 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:35,600 don't negotiate with the fai Shish. We don't negotiate with Faishish with all your 48 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:46,960 muster gashiesh. So the topics today have nothing to do with the Middle East 49 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:52,240 and Middle East politics, although there might be elements of evangelical theology, like 50 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:58,559 refuting dispensationalism or premillennial Zionism. Those things are relevant. But we're not here 51 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:05,200 to talk about tiny mustache man his followers. We're not here to talk about 52 00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:09,480 geopolitical conspiracies. We're not here to talk about wine mom poetry hour. I 53 00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:13,159 don't need to hear your new rat bars. I don't care about your rat 54 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:18,720 bars and they're not as good as mine anyway. The topics are the topics 55 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:22,960 listed, and inevitably there will be people popping in who don't care, don't 56 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,480 pay attention to the topics. They will hop in here and get mad because 57 00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:33,200 they'll say, what is the stream about? What are you even doing? 58 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:39,279 Even though it's giant bold text listed at the top that it's a debate. 59 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:46,879 Oh what chige? You debate me? You're mean it says debate at the 60 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:52,759 top of the thing. That doesn't mean you have to debate. You can 61 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,879 also ask questions. That's perfectly acceptable. So we open it up, and 62 00:10:56,919 --> 00:11:01,080 that means anybody can come on, and I do all the time because I 63 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,600 get dms all the time. People ask me for private tutoring, they ask 64 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,679 me for private messaging. I don't have any time for any of that, 65 00:11:09,919 --> 00:11:13,679 so we get like hundreds of dms and emails. Nowaday, I don't have 66 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:16,240 time to ferret through all this stuff. I can't reply it all these people, 67 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,679 So you can call in. And I typically sit here for hours doing 68 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:26,120 this, So there's really no excuses unless you just act like a complete loon 69 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,720 and I block you. There's really no excuse for thinking that you won't interrupt 70 00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:35,519 with nobody. I do this more than anyone else. No one else sits 71 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:41,480 here for hours opening it up to argue with the audience. Boys and girls, 72 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:48,919 but that's like girls are like two percent of the audience anymore. So 73 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:56,000 topics listed today to be specific obviously the generic topics. Are you a Protestant, 74 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,759 You're an evangelical. You want to present your arguments against my position. 75 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,559 You're a Roman Catholic, you want to prove the papacy whatever. You're an 76 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,600 atheist, you want to defend your naturalism, your materialism. You're a Muslim. 77 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:09,759 You want to defend your position. You think you got it right. 78 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:16,720 You are some sort of weird anti trinitarian cult Black hubre Rias are like Hebrew 79 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:24,080 Roots, Unitarian, Jovah's Witness, Mormon, etc. Etc. You're welcome 80 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:26,919 to request to speak. How does this work? Let's go through the rules 81 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,200 and remind everyone again that when I give you the microphone, it will be 82 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,120 muted. This is how Twitter spaces automatically work. You have to unmute yourself. 83 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:39,480 Don't make me sit here and say five hundred times you got unmute dude, 84 00:12:39,919 --> 00:12:43,120 even though we all know that I will have to sit here for five 85 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:48,759 hundred times and say unmute dude. So we can just accept it that that's 86 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:52,240 the reality and that nobody's going to remember or realize that they have to unmute 87 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:58,120 themselves. So that's how it works. They should just kind of I mean, 88 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,919 I guess that makes sense why you're automatically when you come on. You 89 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,240 might be I don't know, pooping or doing something weird. I don't poop. 90 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,879 I don't know what you weirdo people do. But I am above all 91 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:15,240 of that. So you know, if you can't control, if you got 92 00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:20,200 potty problems. Maybe this isn't the debate for you. Maybe you should go 93 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:24,320 watch those stupid YouTube ads about how to unclog the poop that's been in your 94 00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:30,559 rectum for eight years or whatever they claim. That doesn't think plausible to me. 95 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,440 By the way, it feel like you die if that was the case. 96 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,559 So I feel like I feel like that's not a legitimate product selling point. 97 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,159 I feel like that's false advertising anyway, Like and share, I mean, 98 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,200 are you everybody's just saying in the question marks in the chat you don't 99 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,759 get those as. I get those ads all the time. I don't know 100 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:50,039 why I'm not searching poop stuff, so I don't know why those ads pop 101 00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:58,679 up on my YouTube. But it's that one dude that like hipster looking dude, 102 00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:03,840 hipster looking gen ximulin they'll do. He's like, do you have like 103 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:09,080 twelve feet of backed up hoop in your colling? You probably do, so, 104 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:13,720 like you can't get it out unless you use this product. Anyway, 105 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:16,480 we're not talking about that today. We're gonna talk about serious stuff to a 106 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,879 degree, because but I'm sure we're gonna get some wow people. It never 107 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:28,480 fails, well, sometimes it fails because some days it's completely feral people, 108 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:35,879 feral hill people. Some days it's why Mom's drunk, and then some days 109 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:39,159 it's just serious questions. Some days it's angry people. Who knows what we're 110 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:45,159 gonna get. It's always like a Russian Rulette of madness. And that's that's 111 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,200 okay. We can handle that here, So request to speak. You'll be 112 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:54,440 in the line. I will go to you one by one, and let's 113 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,759 keep it to the topics. I had more specific topics, things like the 114 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,559 Trinity, transcendent are ums, things like logos logi, things like biblical theology, 115 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:09,799 the Old Testament, it's theology, Kuran, Islam, continuity between Old 116 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:18,639 Testament and Islam, Evangelical views, modern evangelical churches, tradition, scripture, 117 00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:24,720 solar scripture, scripture, a loan, solo, fide, Luther calvin Calvinism, 118 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:28,639 Predestinarianism, on on, on on on are all acceptable topics today. 119 00:15:30,159 --> 00:15:33,840 Remember those are the topics and something adjacent to that. So please don't come 120 00:15:33,879 --> 00:15:39,159 on here asking about conspiracies and movies. We're not talking about that today. 121 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,360 And if you talk about conspiracies and movies and asking about that, I'm immediately 122 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,240 going to move on. So don't get mad, get your feelings hurt, 123 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:52,240 get all but hurt all right. First up is and new ref And by 124 00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:56,840 the way, I've got Isaiah pulled up because I'm reading through Isaiah again. 125 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,039 I sort of go in this circle of constantly reading through Isaiah over and over, 126 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,399 which is great because as you don't if you don't know, Isaiah is 127 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,480 the fifth Gospel. And the more you read Isaiah, the more you realize 128 00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:12,720 why it was called that. Why there's so many Messianic prophecies, so many 129 00:16:12,799 --> 00:16:18,159 prophecies of the Church, which proves the Messianic prophecies, so many prophecies of 130 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,840 well, not necessarily prophecies, but statements of the Trinity. I mean, 131 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,159 the Trinity is all through Isaiah. And so it's becoming more and more I 132 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:37,039 think of a go to source for me, because you know, Ezekiel has 133 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,000 multiple Trinitarian passages, multiple Deedy of Christ passages. However, Ezekil's a very 134 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,759 mysterious book for I think most people, for everyone, and Isaiah is a 135 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,159 much more forward book. It's a much more straight forward to the point, 136 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:59,720 you know, mess antic prophecies, relationship of the Messiah to the nations, 137 00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:07,680 and quite a few, actually quite a few statements about Babylon, spiritual Babylon. 138 00:17:10,519 --> 00:17:12,720 You know, if you read the Book of Revelation, you understand how 139 00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:21,039 important that the spiritual Babylon, spiritual whoredom that's discussed of that city, the 140 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:26,319 spiritual city there. And there's quite a few passages that Saint John in the 141 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:30,519 Book of Revelation is playing on from the Book of Isaiah especially, I was 142 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:37,240 just reading after liturgy the other day is Isaiah forty seven, which is almost 143 00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:44,359 perfectly a mirror to Revelation eighteen. So clearly John, as we know, 144 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,720 is pulling from all manner of places in the Old Testament, a lot of 145 00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:52,839 Leviticus that people don't know about. John is pulling from that. In the 146 00:17:52,839 --> 00:18:00,200 Book of Revelation, John is also pulling from Ezekiel and Isaiah. So we 147 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,160 also you can support the show via the stream Labs super chats throughout the show. 148 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,160 This above me is the big Cooin QR code if you want to support 149 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,400 by bitcoin. The wallet address is also on the show description. First off 150 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,839 today is he's looking like a little tight tape bro over here with that smooth, 151 00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:22,279 slick look, looking like he's about to step into the octagon and do 152 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:33,640 some some ballet dance moves and Arov what's up? And Arrov all right? 153 00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:37,680 Did have we talked before? We have about amount about a month ago. 154 00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:47,079 I have a question specifically about tag again. I really like the argument, 155 00:18:48,519 --> 00:18:52,799 and I just think it's really abstract though so and I am coming from like 156 00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:56,599 a philosophy minor background, and I still find it kind of difficult toime to 157 00:18:56,599 --> 00:19:00,119 sign sometimes, and that's obviously why I come to you. My question is 158 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:07,559 we talk about time right as universal? I'm confused as to okay, are 159 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:11,440 we saying that time is not justifiable without God? And if so, how 160 00:19:11,519 --> 00:19:18,839 does time then prove the existence of God? I think I think Kant takes 161 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:25,039 that from Aristotle's categories in some situation. Let's see, I've got categories here 162 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,319 right in front of me, and uh, let's see what Aristotle list. 163 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:38,039 Says the categories, because that's where Kant gets categories listed. Aristotle lists forms 164 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:45,440 of speech, predicating from forms of speech they're either simple or composite. He 165 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,559 lists let's see. Oh here, I'm sorry, excuse me. Here here's 166 00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:55,839 the list of the categories. He says, substance, quantity, quality, 167 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:03,599 relation, place, time, because position, state, action, affection. 168 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:10,920 So I think that we could, without getting too wild in our philosophical speculations 169 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,480 and debates, I think we could safely say that it does make sense that 170 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,920 time would be one of the preconditions of knowledge, one of the categories that 171 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,799 would be preconditions. Yes, okay, and then see and then also what 172 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,400 we talked about before and with I just need you to appoint me in the 173 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,000 right direction. You have to answer it, like get crazy now when we 174 00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:37,839 talk about the preconditions for knowledge, for logic, meta logic and how it 175 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,319 proves that itself proves the existence of God. What do you have, like 176 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,680 anything can like can you clarify that right now? Or is there anything you 177 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,960 can point the introrection to to, Like, look, yeah, we've done 178 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,319 multiple streams on this, Like you could look at the top ten objections to 179 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,200 the transient argument stream. Okay, you could look at the stream that I 180 00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:59,680 did critiquing doctor ed Fazer where I talked about universals. But basically, when 181 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,640 you aren't admitting that the categories exist, Okay, So let's go back to 182 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:08,559 Aristotle's list of these categories, right, substance, quantity, quality, relation, 183 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,880 place, time, position, state, action, affection. If you 184 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:17,920 think about those categories as examples, they don't operate or exist in isolation, 185 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:21,880 so they're holistic. They go together. And if they go together, then 186 00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:26,160 what's the grounding for all of those things together? And that's where I make 187 00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:30,440 the argument to the move to ground it is then the Christian metaphysic the universe, 188 00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:34,759 the world created by the trium God. That kind of a world grounds 189 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:40,440 this list of ten categories, using Aristotle as the example. Yeah, I 190 00:21:40,519 --> 00:21:44,119 mean I made that argument this one before, and then they went into absurdy 191 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:45,640 and they said, okay, youth, that you can ground it in God, 192 00:21:45,759 --> 00:21:49,400 right, these different things. Why can't I ground it in a turtle, 193 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,279 for example? Because the turtle doesn't do the turtle doesn't do any of 194 00:21:55,319 --> 00:22:00,920 the metaphysical work that the Christian worldview does. So that'd be as stupid as 195 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:07,920 thinking that the Christian worldview, which is the basic ideas of Christian epistemology, 196 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,440 Christian ethics, Christian metaphysics. The idea is that that that would be the 197 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,519 equivalent to just saying a turtle is completely stupid, right, because it's not 198 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:18,319 a turtle anymore. If it transcends all of these things, right, your 199 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,319 friend doesn't understand that it's an argument about worldviews to competing world news. It 200 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,480 wasn't It wasn't a friend. It was online. Yeah, but it's a 201 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:30,640 cringe thing because it walks like a duck, talks like it's a duck. 202 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,640 Great, so then it's not a turtle anymore at that point. But I 203 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,240 see, but obviously you know, oh you mean you mean is he's saying, 204 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,079 what if I said that a turtle is a triune god that has the 205 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,799 ability? Well if they said something like that, like we had a guy, 206 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,640 We had a guy in the in the discord like six years ago, 207 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,279 and he was trying to make a big argument like this where he was like, 208 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,039 oh, what if I take all of your positions and just say that 209 00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,119 it's some you know, odin God. It's a triune right right, a 210 00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:04,759 low tan odin deity. But the point is that the argument for our position 211 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,799 also includes history, so it includes it's an entire worldview. It's not an 212 00:23:08,839 --> 00:23:14,359 abstract math problem. It's saying that the entire Christian world view, which includes 213 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,440 the Christian account of history. That means that Jesus stepped into time and space. 214 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:22,079 That means that the trying God is a revelation from Christ, So it 215 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,480 could not be something copied and pasted by a dude on Reddit, who would 216 00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:33,079 clearly be borrowing from the previous historical Christian tradition. Do you see how it 217 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,960 would just be an obvious fact similar right, Right, It's kind of like 218 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,400 you're borrowing from morality when we say God is unethical, but then in that 219 00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:42,599 you presuppose what ethics is, and that's not possible without God. Yeah, 220 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,759 but I'm just ye, but I'm saying history is also part of the worldview. 221 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,640 We don't have an ahistorical, abstracted notion of what a worldview is. 222 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,680 It's not a math problem. It includes the history of the Church. It 223 00:23:56,799 --> 00:24:00,640 includes what you see right here on the screen in Isaiah. Isaiah is part 224 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:06,039 of this historical revelation in Isaiah. Here is in this Messianic prophecy, for 225 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,160 example, I am the first, I am the last again hearkening to the 226 00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:14,359 terminology of John in the Book of Revelation, identifying Christ as the Messiah, 227 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,119 Christ as divine, and he says that I laid the foundations of the earth. 228 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,039 So this means Jesus created the earth, because Jesus is the alpha Omega, 229 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:25,799 according to John, Jesus is the creator. Then it goes down to 230 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,599 say that all the nations assemble against the Lord. Listened to the Lord, 231 00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:36,799 and he says, I've not spoken in secret. I've spoken from the beginning. 232 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:41,640 I was there, and now Yahweh and his spirit have sent me. 233 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:48,079 So this is a messianic prophecy, Christ speaking and saying, Yahweh and his 234 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,759 spirit have sent me. That's the Trinity. And he's identified as the Alpha 235 00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:59,160 Omega like four verses earlier. So I know you're not primarily asking about the 236 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,039 Trinity, but I'm saying that if I think about what the quote Christian worldview 237 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,880 is, it includes people like Isaiah. It includes Isaiah's Massianic prophecies and these 238 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,680 statements about who the Messiah is stepping into time and space, the second person, 239 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:17,079 that godhead in time and space. That is part of the worldview. 240 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,759 So it could not this could not then be equated to a person saying, 241 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:25,200 oh, well, I have all your metaphysical positions, but it's Odin and 242 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:30,119 not the Trinity in Jesus right right that that that puts it perfectly. R. 243 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,079 E J. I'll let someone else's mass question, but thank you great 244 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,720 questions. That question comes up quite a bit, so I appreciate it. 245 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:44,160 I appreciate you re bringing it up. Cult cult savage is next up. 246 00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:56,960 Cult savage sounds like a wow cowboy. Oh oh am, I are you 247 00:25:56,079 --> 00:26:02,759 cult savage? Yes, sir, well on your mind man. Oh So, 248 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,759 first of all, thank you for having me on. I wanted to 249 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,599 ask you a question about the Trinity. So I come from a Protestant background, 250 00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:14,200 so I'm just beginning to learn these things. I'm only twenty three, 251 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,599 so I'm very young in an experience on these topics, like I feel my 252 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,319 first read through on the Bible Orthodox canon by the way, so I've read 253 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,599 like the Three Macabees. So in your discussion with Radem Zumer, something I 254 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,200 noticed that you said to the Phillyuque, if you believe that that opens the 255 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,880 door to Macedonianism. And before I let you respond, I just wanted to 256 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,920 this is something I was just thinking about on this issue because something I noticed 257 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:44,119 is that, you know, I was watching Orthodox YouTube or on heresies when 258 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,680 Macedonians goes like what, I'm an Heritic of the Holy spirits a person, 259 00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:49,920 not what are you talking about? And I was like, I don't want 260 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,759 to be a herotic, like what are you talking about? And something interesting 261 00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:59,319 I've learned over these years is that I've noticed in Western Christendom the divinity of 262 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,920 the Holy spre It is kind of Seymour's live service in the reality. I 263 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,400 mean, there's so many people that sorry, were you going to say something? 264 00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,440 No, I'm disagreeing and saying absolutely, that's an unintended effect. Correct, 265 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,000 Yeah, because I've even heard some people who don't know any better. 266 00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:19,119 They'll say, well, you know, Jesus is the son of the Father, 267 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,680 and then they'll say the Holy Spirit is like the grandson. What do 268 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,039 you what do you mean grandsons don't say that anywhere? Right, Yeah, 269 00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:30,720 exactly, And I'm just again, I'm too inexperienced to say, oh, 270 00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:33,839 well, I think the Philioque is true or not. But the main question 271 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,160 I wanted to get is that is there any way you can get the philioque 272 00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:42,599 without falling into the Macedonian heresy? Anyway that you can get it? What 273 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,000 do you mean? Or is is there any way you can hold to the 274 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:52,000 philiuquay without really embracing Macedonianism. Well, I think most people who believe that 275 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:57,400 Philioquey don't intend that so, but I think that the point is rather that 276 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,920 many people could you mute when you're not talking, it's really loud background, 277 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,680 or it's just just when you're not speaking. Yeah. So I think a 278 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,880 lot of people are better than their theology right because their intentions are obviously not 279 00:28:10,039 --> 00:28:17,559 to obviously not to believe in Macedonianism or the diminished onto logical status of the 280 00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:22,440 spirit. I think that they just are kind of working with systems and structures 281 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,279 that they've inherited through whatever they're raised with, be a Protestant or Roman Catholic. 282 00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:30,200 And then as they get deeper and deeper into the issues and they realize 283 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,200 it's a little bit complex, then typically they're kind of trying to make this 284 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:40,200 thing work, right, like I don't know, like like Matt Damon when 285 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,640 he's you know, the janitor and he walks in and he's trying to make 286 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,720 that big math problem work and goodwill hunting or whatever. So and then they 287 00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:51,960 realize that contrary to the Matt Damon example, it doesn't actually end up working 288 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,319 out. So the basic issues with how we get I mean, it really 289 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:03,559 vindicates the critique originally from Saint Photius and the mistagogy, which is that if 290 00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:10,160 you have a shared hypostatic property which is supposed to pick out the persons, 291 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,559 if the son shares in that property with the father, then now you really 292 00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:18,640 have a diad because you have this power of this property that two of the 293 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:22,680 two persons share that the other doesn't. And in Trinitarian theology, according to 294 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:27,000 Cappadocians, something's either unique to the persons or it's common to all three. 295 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,279 You can't have something that two have and one doesn't. That's pretty much impossible. 296 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,519 And so it leads to a diad where the father and the son are 297 00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:41,000 a coeternal principle together of the production of the spirit. That's the terminology from 298 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:47,480 Lyons in Florence. Nothing to do with eternal manifestation there, but specifically about 299 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,839 eternal existential procession. And so that's why it leads to a diad. That's 300 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,640 the key issue. And the other thing is that that diad then leads to 301 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:03,680 an ontological minished status of the Holy Spirit. So that's where the critique, 302 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,319 the Macedonian critique comes in. And every time a Roman Catholar person here's this, 303 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,400 they freak out that the Holy Spirit, Yeah, we know you don't 304 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,640 think that we're saying that the position leads to that if you were consistent. 305 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:21,960 So really it's just a confusion ultimately of the distinctions between nature, person, 306 00:30:22,079 --> 00:30:26,960 will, and energy. And I would direct everyone too, although it's not 307 00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:32,480 discussing the Phillyoquay, although Saint Gregory Palomus does have a book that is built 308 00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:37,160 on the argmentation of St. Photius and the mystagogy called the Apedictic Treatise on 309 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,400 the Holy Spirit, which is ripping the Phillioquay to shreds. This book, 310 00:30:41,559 --> 00:30:48,680 which is available Gregory Palomas, and the four Palamite Synods are all translated. 311 00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:52,799 All four are translated. I read it on the plane back from hanging out 312 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:57,000 with Sam Hyde, and uh, you'll notice as you read through the translations 313 00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,559 of the Palomite Synods that, oh, they make all the arguments I make. 314 00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:04,160 So one of those key arguments, which is again not directly about the 315 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:11,519 Philioquay, but indirectly addressing the root confusion, is the confusion of the distinction 316 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,119 between nature, person, will, and energy in PWE. So I have 317 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:21,880 about ten places where I marked in my notes in PWE where the Palamite Synods 318 00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:27,160 are taking the argumentation from Saint Gregor Palomas that the Latins consistently confuse nature, 319 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,359 person, will, and energy because they're real. They're real, metaphysical in 320 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,960 the sense of actually being in God distinctions, and metaphysical distinction doesn't mean separation 321 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,039 or division. God's not separated because he has distinctions any more than distinguishing the 322 00:31:42,079 --> 00:31:48,680 Father and the Son means that they're separated. So so that's my rundown on 323 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,640 on that. But you could also go read the Sushensky book on the Philioquay 324 00:31:52,880 --> 00:32:00,960 if you want to take it to the next level. All right, one 325 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,559 of your past dreams, you know, you talked about how the second person 326 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,119 Jesus was also the God in the Old Testament. You know, uh yeah, 327 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,000 away, I am he I mean, I've just covered this chapter right 328 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,839 here. Yeah. Well, I just wanted to say, real quick, 329 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,640 I appreciate you talking about this because I've actually been reading through the Old Testament 330 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,839 again and the Old Testament makes a lot more sense with this distinction, because 331 00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:24,160 you know, growing up, I was thinking, why would the Father just 332 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,640 do all this stuff in the Old Testament, Like did you like get tired 333 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,039 take a break and say yo, son, take this over. It makes 334 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:32,279 a lot more sense when you read the Old Testament with the second with the 335 00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:35,839 second person of the god Head being the God in the Old Testament. And 336 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,319 I was just reading through Isaiah, yeah, yesterday, and now I'm reading 337 00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:45,160 through Jeremiah and one thing and just one more thing. I know a lot 338 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,960 of Calvinists. I'm not a Calvinist, by the way, I don't believe 339 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:54,599 in that nonsense they talk about how Romans nine is evidence for predestination and the 340 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,119 you know, like Goodtara decided your outcoming. I'm just thinking, well, 341 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,640 that's a load of nonsense because Salvation, Heaven, and hill are not mentioned 342 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,160 in that chapter. And I was just wondering, what is your take on 343 00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:09,440 that? Yeah, So I think if you read the pat can you mute 344 00:33:09,559 --> 00:33:14,640 or go ahead and leave the space just because it's the background noise as well. 345 00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:20,640 Yeah. I think that once you understand that Christology is trinity, and 346 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,119 Christology come first in your order of theology and not the Divine decree, then 347 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,119 a lot of this stuff kind of works itself out because if you look at 348 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,480 Isaiah forty five, which I think Paul is pulling from Isaiah forty five in 349 00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:42,519 part and Isaiah forty five is talking about the collective relationship between Jacob and Esau, 350 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,480 and Paul's whole context for a lot of this is the relationship between you 351 00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:53,119 and gentile. So although I understand that Jacob and Esau were individuals, the 352 00:33:53,240 --> 00:34:00,279 idea that the eternal destiny is what's in view here in terms of individual I 353 00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:06,680 don't think is Paul's primary point. God does for no all events, but 354 00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:09,719 that doesn't mean that God is the direct cause of all events. And this 355 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:15,199 is an issue that Islam, for example, is very proud of because they 356 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,880 adopted a metaphysic that's called occasionalism, or at least many soon he's maybe not 357 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,280 all of them. I don't think. For example, Jake doesn't believe in 358 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,639 occasionalism, and occasionalism just means, like most Calvinists would say, that God 359 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,400 is the direct cause of every event. In other words, every event is 360 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:36,679 immediately caused by the divine decree. And so while it seems on the first 361 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,280 surface of it that passages like Romans nine might lend credence to that, if 362 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:46,039 you rewind and step back from it and think about like Ephesians, for example, 363 00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:50,440 when Paul writes to the church at Ephesus. He's not writing to the 364 00:34:50,519 --> 00:34:54,320 elect. I'm Orthodox, So stop spamming the chat or you're just gonna get 365 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,239 mute. If you stand one more, if you spend one more time, 366 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,400 you're going. So you should be obvious. It should be obvious hot to 367 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,159 figure. All right, you're done. You're going to get rid of this 368 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:12,960 guy. It's just super annoying. It's constant mental illness anyway. So when 369 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,960 he writes to the church at Emphasis, he's writing to a visible community of 370 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:20,639 baptized people. He's not writing to the invisibly known only to God elect. 371 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,559 And if you understand that in that vantage point, then hey, wait a 372 00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:29,000 minute. If he's writing to the visible church at Ephesus, then why is 373 00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:34,320 he calling them the predestined? Strictly speaking, the predestined allah Ephesians ie, 374 00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:40,599 they could only be it could only be written to the invisible elect. And 375 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:45,000 you know, most Calvinists think that ultimately the only people who are reading and 376 00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:51,239 understanding the texts are the invisible elect, the predestined, right, the unconditionally 377 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,639 elect, and so they really are the recipients. But you don't actually see 378 00:35:54,679 --> 00:35:59,840 this in Paul's epistles, right, like he's writing to this church at Ephesus, 379 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:02,159 the bishop, Bishop Timothy, by the way. And then he's like 380 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,480 wink wink, saying, oh, but by the way, I'm not actually 381 00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:07,719 writing to the church at Ephesus. Wink wink. We all know who I'm 382 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,159 really writing to, right, John Calvin, Right, bro, No, 383 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,400 it's written to the visible church at Ephesus, who are called the predestined the 384 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,000 body of Christ. But you notice that every Calvin assessed to say and wait 385 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:23,760 a minute, it's not actually written to the visible body of Christ because they're 386 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,039 not a visible body of Christ. The real body of Christ is invisible. 387 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,519 Oh that sounds a lot like a guy named Nostorius, and it's just taking 388 00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:39,039 Astorianism and applying it to ecclesiology, whereas Nestorius is a heterodox Christology applied to 389 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:45,960 the person of Christ, and that Christ wasn't really embodied in his human nature, 390 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:51,320 but we rather there was two subjects, a eternal divine logos and this 391 00:36:51,519 --> 00:36:55,239 human person or subject, Jesus of Nazareth. So it's a dual subject Christology, 392 00:36:55,599 --> 00:37:00,760 which was a result of a move very similar to pre ustinarianis. I'm 393 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,480 very similar to Calvinism I'm not saying that the stories was identical to to Calvinism, 394 00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:14,519 but his his views of Christology are actually mirrored by many Calvinists inadvertently. 395 00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:16,519 And if you want a good book on that, just read John mcguckin's book, 396 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,320 Saint Cyril of Alexandria and the Christological Controversy. So hopefully that kind of 397 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,599 clears things up. It just has to do with resetting your approach to theology. 398 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,519 Rather than starting your order of theology like the like Calvinists do with a 399 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:38,800 divine decree. Your order of theology begins with Christology or trying to teary theology, 400 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:45,360 which which leads to Christology. So yeah, I'm sorry. I wasn't 401 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,599 trying to get ready already. You can, you can pop back in, 402 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:54,559 but I had already hit yeah, go ahead with what's your last point? 403 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,519 I was sorry. I was just gonna say thank you for having me on. 404 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,400 Sure. Yeah, I mean you can go to uh my clips channel, 405 00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:12,159 not my clips, my personal clips channel, not Kyle's clips channel. 406 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:17,679 You could go to live streams and absurdities. And I have two uh I 407 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:22,199 have like four hours of lectures going through Calvinism. So Jade, I are 408 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:27,639 comic Calvinism. I've done the same talk for Sam Sumun Shimmun's channel four or 409 00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:32,840 five hours going critique Calvinism, aboo Mohammed. I wonder what religion we have 410 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:42,320 here, Calvinism or Islam actually pretty much the same thing. Calvi is Calvi 411 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:51,400 Islam. Go ahead, that's a joke. Gotta unmute, man, un 412 00:38:51,480 --> 00:39:01,320 mute? Are you there a boom? We really want to hear about how 413 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,519 turning it deep Pegan? All right, well we can't hear you. You're 414 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:08,960 not You didn't turn your microphone on, so we can't hear you. Man. 415 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:20,719 Morale La, what's up? Dude? Thank you for those super chats 416 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,360 everybody. You gotta turn your mic on, dude if you want to come 417 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:36,360 back, I don't care. We got some super chats, super chat, 418 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:46,519 super freak A. Let's see trying to find the first one King theod and 419 00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:51,960 a Rohan. He's tweeting from from the horse. Lord is tweeting me from 420 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:57,480 the back of a noble steed. Jay, My boomer tech can't figure out 421 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,840 twater spaces. All you gotta do is go over there and get in the 422 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,239 room. There's literally nothing to it. Please consider me. I would like 423 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,840 to come on and disagree. Bro, I want you to the front of 424 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,280 the line. So King Theod on a row hand, hop down off of 425 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,840 that noble steed and get into Twitter space. Listen, boomer. All it 426 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,800 takes is literally clicking with your thumb into the room. There's nothing required except 427 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,559 for maybe turning on your microphone, which I'm sure is basically a giant engineering 428 00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:30,360 feat if you're a boomer figuring out how to turn on your microphone for the 429 00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:34,760 X app. So it's just a joke. Relax, but yeah, we 430 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,800 want you in here, King Theod and Andrew G two dollars? Are you 431 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,440 training kids on basi preceps so that they can demolish the future slow boy children. 432 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,480 I don't think we're gonna have to worry about future slowboy children getting demolished. 433 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,280 They're gonna demolish themselves. Noah M five dollars. I set my foot 434 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,320 in the door of the Orthodox Church through David Bentley Hart. I'm sorry, 435 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,840 but it's great that you're in the church. I let go of universalism. 436 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,079 There you go. Awesome. This was the hardest intellectual hurdle for me. 437 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:07,360 Now, look that's pretty much everybody. I mean, maybe for you. 438 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,400 It was that issue. But look, all of us when we convert, 439 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:16,679 uh go through multiple periods of having a hard time with various issues and giving 440 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:21,480 them up. It's just part of the process. I mean I had I 441 00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:25,880 don't know what was the last. You're gonna You're just gonna have different theologically 442 00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:31,199 challenging issues, and that's true for everybody. Can we legitimately hope that all 443 00:41:31,199 --> 00:41:36,440 people can be saved? I mean we can, but doesn't mean that they 444 00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:38,599 will. All right, So let's see Mohammed is back. Let's see what 445 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:52,960 we got. He's a maturidi abu Muhammed. You gott I mute? Man, 446 00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:20,840 you're on, you're up, says you're open speak. I don't know 447 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,000 you're you don't have a mic turned on or something. Man, wait, 448 00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:30,239 there's no sound, so try again. Next up, Uh, it's skender. 449 00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:39,039 Something looks like I d just got out of the shower. Hello, 450 00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:47,679 O, Hi, okay, how's it going. I'm a fellow Orthodox Christian 451 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,639 from Southeastern Europe and I have a very brief question to you. Can you 452 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:58,320 please remind the audience about the same Gregory Palamas, specifically, his is a 453 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:05,480 prophetic argument against that by rejecting mysticism that Doctrin will inevitably leap with asm. 454 00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:13,079 In fact, I was kind of surprised to see that argument repeated in two 455 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:20,679 of them to repeat the argument that it will lead to atheism, because the 456 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,880 main point of this argument is just simply that the reason it will eventually lead 457 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:30,800 to that is because the conclusions of the both Tomistic and barleam Mite system, 458 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:37,119 and they have differing views. Barleum was more of an Eastern minded monk, 459 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:43,360 but he shares a lot of the theological presuppositions of the Tomists, particularly on 460 00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:47,760 the point of whether or not in this life we have a direct perception and 461 00:43:49,079 --> 00:43:54,760 experience of the divine energies or whether we are only experiencing created effects of God. 462 00:43:55,639 --> 00:44:00,480 And that's the key point where the logic the both, sayg. Gregor 463 00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:07,480 Palamus and many of his especially the Dialogue with the Barleymite and in the Palamite 464 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:13,320 Synods, they repeat the argument that this will eventually, if you're consistent with 465 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:19,880 that presupposition, leads you to atheism because you're no longer ever experiencing It's not 466 00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:23,199 just the fact that you're not experiencing God directly. If you're only experiencing created 467 00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,639 effects, then you don't really know which of the created effects which are right 468 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:34,719 analogues for the attributes. Okay, so I'm not directly experiencing the uncreated energy 469 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,519 of divine love. I'm supposedly only experiencing a created effect that I'm calling love. 470 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,559 And if all of the created effects in reality are identical amongst themselves and 471 00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:49,039 with the divine essence, which is the Roman Catholic's mystic position, then this 472 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,039 leads to an eventual atheism if you're consistent with it. So this is repeated. 473 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:58,559 I recall at least twice in the Palamite Synods. And remember, Palomite 474 00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:04,079 Synods, in the Orthor view, would trump even the personal writings of Saint 475 00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:07,280 Gregory Palamas. I'm not suggesting that they're out of accord with one another. 476 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:13,280 I'm just simply saying that the synods would constitute more authority than any individual. 477 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,440 Yeah, I'm gonna thank you for answering the question. And I mean, 478 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,360 it's crazy how the Customers Church has fallen, you know today. Yeah, 479 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,679 it's I mean, it's literally in that exact position that Saint Gregory Palomas predicted 480 00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:34,119 it would be in, and it's because they chose to be a geopolitical power 481 00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:42,360 and force over maintaining true theological, healing faith, and that's that's been the 482 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,400 criticism for a thousand years. Also, keep in mind that, as I 483 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:52,440 wrote in my sub stack, the final Tomos of thirteen sixty eight literally condemns 484 00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:58,280 the position of the monk Prokerros, who tried to argue that the Thomas view 485 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:04,559 and the Palomite view could be reconciled by saying that the distinctions in God are 486 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,119 purely conceptual. And so this means that everybody's trying to say that the Palomite 487 00:46:09,159 --> 00:46:17,159 position is also a purely conceptual distinction is condemned in the Fourth Palamite Synod the 488 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:22,280 Tomos of thirteen sixty eight, and it goes on, by the way, 489 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,079 to reject a whole host of other Thomistic arguments. And so if you have 490 00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:30,760 the book right here, this is on pages four twenty four and four to 491 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:36,000 twenty five. So that pretty much puts an end to the lying, deceptive 492 00:46:36,119 --> 00:46:43,199 argument of the Uniates and the Ecumenists and the Thomis that we can reconcile Palamism 493 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:50,039 and Tomism or Roman Catholic dogma on divine simplicity. These these two groups at 494 00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:52,760 this time are excommunicating and calling each other heretics. So we don't even have 495 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,920 to get into the minutia of the theology and the of what level of scholastic 496 00:46:58,039 --> 00:47:02,719 distinction issition. It doesn't even mare because the Roman Catholic Church excommunicated the people 497 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:08,840 that had the Palamite position via lions in Florence, and now these people are 498 00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:13,440 saints quote unquote in the Roman Catholic Church. But you can be an historian 499 00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:16,280 and be a saint now in the Romancolic Church, as Jimmy Aiken and Trent 500 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:21,199 Horn say, So, does that not prove that this whole position is based 501 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,039 around papal power and has nothing to do with the actual theology. How could 502 00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,719 you be a heerd sate for centuries and then have the whole thing reversed and 503 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:34,360 now you're a saint. This proves that they're wrong? Yeah, thank you 504 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,440 very much, Dream, thank you very much. Yeah, who do the 505 00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:42,400 prove wrong? Doctrine evolved? Yeah? If doctrine evolved, then history of 506 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:58,079 alls too, doesn't it? Leonid? What's that? Leonid? Thank you 507 00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:02,320 guys for uh these No, I am my wife and our eighteen months son 508 00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:08,239 brother, myself were being baptized. Hey, hello, Yeah, I have 509 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:15,199 a like an outcome here to debate. I have like two questions questions. 510 00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:21,239 First of all, you you belong to the Russian looks Church, right? 511 00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:28,360 And like, why are you too specifically like the Russian look Church? Are 512 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,719 you Russian? No? Because that was the best church in the area and 513 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:40,599 I ended up finding my spiritual father there. So you like part of patriarchy. 514 00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:46,880 Look, well, Rokor is fairly independent, but they're in communion with 515 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:55,320 Carol Ah. Okay, okay. So to my main question, if, 516 00:48:55,559 --> 00:49:05,079 like the the Before, the before, the Torah, before Mount Sinai, 517 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:13,719 like Noah and the Enoch, if they are able to be saved without the 518 00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:20,920 law, the Old Testament laws, and without the New Testament Govenant. So 519 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,079 why do we need the old story? Why do we need Well, this 520 00:49:24,199 --> 00:49:27,199 is a right this so this is a hold on. So this is a 521 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,079 fundamental misunderstanding. First of all, no one was saved by Old Testament laws. 522 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,559 You could never be saved by Old Testament laws. It didn't matter whether 523 00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:38,000 pre Sinai or post Sinai laws could never save you. Paul makes this argument 524 00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:42,920 multiple times in Romans. The only way to be saved is through the Messiah. 525 00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:47,320 The Old Testament saints were all saved by Jesus. Literally, Jesus was 526 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:52,440 the one in the garden of Eden. Jesus was who was walking and talking 527 00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:57,360 to Abraham. Jesus as who met Moses on Mount Sinai, Jesus as who 528 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,039 appeared to Manoah. This is fundamental to orthodo x theology. Yeah. But 529 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:09,199 like if you read in Genesis five, was taken taken like to Heaven before 530 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:14,400 Jesus and before they No, he's taken to Paradise. And that's why. 531 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,760 Uh, there's two people Enoch and Elijah who were taken who have not yet 532 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:22,840 died. So that's why Revelation says it at some point they will die. 533 00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:32,800 Oh so they are they are life. Yeah wow, interesting, Okay, 534 00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:37,440 that's it. Thank you, Yeah, thank you. Good questions. Yeah, 535 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,840 those are you know, questions that come up that are always good to 536 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:49,760 reaffirm and re answer that. Yeah, we do have we do have the 537 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:54,280 same salvation. That's why Paul says that, uh, the Old Testament saints 538 00:50:54,559 --> 00:51:00,159 had the Gospel preached to them, the Gospel, and this is the chief 539 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:07,599 error of the premillennial goobers and the dispensationalists to think that there was some separate 540 00:51:07,639 --> 00:51:22,320 way to be saved. Complete nonsense, Nuwand you gotta amute bro. Oh 541 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:29,079 yeah, yeah, could you please? Yeah, I'm really good. Could 542 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:36,800 you please expand on the previous point you made about Elijah and coming back. 543 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,840 Well, I think the Book of Revelation chooses them at some point to be 544 00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:49,440 the martyrs when they preach right, and then they undergo a martyr's death because 545 00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:52,440 they are the two people that haven't yet died. So they were taken to 546 00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:58,840 Paradise, which is not identical to heaven Heaven, and so they will undergo 547 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:06,400 martyrdom to then be as erected at the last day, so would be Hades 548 00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:12,480 or Shield. No, in fact, when Jesus went to Hades, he 549 00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:21,880 took those souls to Paradise. He took those souls to Heaven or Paradise. 550 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,480 We don't exactly know, Oh, we don't exactly know. I was on 551 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:30,440 the impression that he took the souls from Hades or Shield to Heaven, right, 552 00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:38,159 and that everybody in Elijah inclusive have moved from hem. I don't well, 553 00:52:38,159 --> 00:52:40,480 I don't think they weren't in Hades. They were, they were said 554 00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:46,400 to be in paradise. So exactly the relationship between paradise and Heaven, I'm 555 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:51,800 not I'm not sure. It might be dimensions. I don't know. We're 556 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:58,320 not really told much about that. So there's basically a distinction between paradise and 557 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:05,280 yeah, because the people who go to heaven have died in ynecologic didn't dodge. 558 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:12,519 So how all that works, I don't know anyway. Good questions, 559 00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:17,320 Yeah, good questions, Mario. What's up? Mario? Do do do 560 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:30,719 do do do doo? I'm mute, hija. Can you hear me? 561 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:35,679 Yes, sir, thank you for having me on. I am actually your 562 00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:42,119 Roman Catholic. But I'm trying to consider Orthodoxy, and the main reason is 563 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:50,039 not about all the discussions that you're regularly having about for the awkward and the 564 00:53:50,159 --> 00:53:55,519 various theological issues, but measures are more like spiritual So I wanted to ask 565 00:53:55,639 --> 00:54:00,159 you if you think that this could be a ground for conversion, in the 566 00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:07,239 sense that if a person doesn't find any spiritual guide in the Catholic Church right 567 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:13,239 now, whereas in Orthodoxy feels I don't know, I can find more thriving 568 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:19,519 parishes and stuff like this. And also if it's if it's your experience in 569 00:54:19,599 --> 00:54:27,639 your Orthodox church when you came from Catholicism. If you two found I don't 570 00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:32,079 know, more guide in a spiritual life or I did, yeah, so 571 00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:39,840 you definitely will find typically more of that type of guidance. I would just 572 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,119 hesitate on thinking that that would be like the one thing that would tell you 573 00:54:45,199 --> 00:54:49,719 whether it's true or false, because at some point we do have to have 574 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,000 an analysis of the two different religious views in terms of their theology and their 575 00:54:55,039 --> 00:55:00,599 positions. So sometimes it's tempting. It may maybe it feels daunted in terms 576 00:55:00,599 --> 00:55:01,519 of the theology. You think, oh, I don't want to get into 577 00:55:01,519 --> 00:55:05,000 all this, don't have time. I'm just going to judge it on the 578 00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:10,280 basis of you know, people choose I think at times bad indicators for which 579 00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,000 church they choose. For example, a lot of people chose Roman Catholicis in 580 00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:16,639 the last several years because they thought, oh, this is more politically based 581 00:55:16,679 --> 00:55:22,039 in trad and then they end up five or six years later miserable and angry 582 00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:24,360 and they feel like they made the wrong choice. So you can't make these 583 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:34,480 decisions on things like I'm not saying that that can't be one element like you 584 00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:37,119 know, if you find a really good spiritual father, that might be one 585 00:55:37,159 --> 00:55:40,639 of the key things that helps you convert. But anytime we pick like one 586 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:45,280 of these things like that, that can be a little subjective. And I'm 587 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:51,599 not saying that you're not going to find that. But for example, the 588 00:55:52,039 --> 00:55:55,000 two or three of the people who say we're looking at Orthodoxy in the last 589 00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:59,440 five years that chose Rome, they would say things like what you're saying. 590 00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,440 They would say, Oh, I met a tried cat priest who I felt 591 00:56:04,159 --> 00:56:08,320 gave me a better feeling about praying the Rosary, and how I felt when 592 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:10,800 I prayed the Rosary. I'm not saying, you're saying that I'm choosing As 593 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,360 an example, they would have all of this terminology of how it made them 594 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,039 feel and how the Rosary made them feel. And I'm like, well, 595 00:56:17,079 --> 00:56:22,280 don't you see Mormons say that when you pray the Mormon prayer, you get 596 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:23,599 the burning in your bosom and you feel good. So it's like, you 597 00:56:23,679 --> 00:56:30,840 can't use that as your final arbiter. I think you can have these indicators 598 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:35,559 and intuitive sort of nudges, but we have to be very careful because sometimes 599 00:56:35,639 --> 00:56:39,000 those inner feelings and what we think is intuition can also be deceptive. So 600 00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:42,679 at the end of the at the end of the day, it's got to 601 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,840 come down to the positions which one's consistent in, which one contradicts. Otherwise 602 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,280 you're gonna be constantly kind of you know, maybe you after a year of 603 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,719 Orthodoxy and you don't feel like it's working or something, so then you're gonna 604 00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,920 be, oh, I'm gonna go to Romatholicism, and then two years in 605 00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:00,920 a round with Alicism, I don't like it works anymore. So you just 606 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:07,480 can't be based on feelings or things that are more subjective than things that are 607 00:57:07,519 --> 00:57:14,000 more objective. Okay, but what if you put like if a person is 608 00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,559 too thick, is what too thick? Like th h I CC like thick. 609 00:57:19,639 --> 00:57:22,000 No, sorry, I'm gonna tell you if a person is too obtused 610 00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:27,599 to like, I don't get I simply can't figure it out. There are 611 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,159 too complex for me, certain topics about theology and stuff like I imagine like 612 00:57:31,239 --> 00:57:37,039 a normal person in a Catholic parish. I mean, you can't look at 613 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,880 like Pacha MoMA and see a problem with that, I know, but a 614 00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,159 person can look at I don't know, Lofton or someone else and find arguments 615 00:57:46,239 --> 00:57:49,960 on the other way. No, no, we're not. That's a false 616 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,159 equivalence. Michael Lofton is not the equivalent of the papacy. No, of 617 00:57:53,239 --> 00:57:58,119 course not so no, no, But what I'm saying is that cleric engaging 618 00:57:58,159 --> 00:58:02,599 those kinds of actions without uh, basically committing the sin of apostasy. And 619 00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:07,320 in Roman Catholic canon law, apostasy means you're out of the church. So 620 00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:13,719 like, it's not it's not that difficult. No, But what I'm saying 621 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,559 is there are all the smart dudes that say, that's not apostasy. Okay, 622 00:58:19,079 --> 00:58:21,159 okay, how could let me let let's just put it this way. 623 00:58:22,199 --> 00:58:25,239 How do you call a crusade if you're urban the second and if you're ben 624 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,719 at the sixteenth and Poste Francis you go and pray in the mosque towards Mecca. 625 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,199 How are those two things not contradictions? You can't tell a contradiction. 626 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:45,440 I don't know. That's the point. So what this points out the point 627 00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:49,559 is that they don't have the worship of God there. How could you worship 628 00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,400 in a mosque towards Mecca. I mean, it's it's not even Christianity anymore 629 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:59,920 if you're doing that some other religion. No, but one could say, 630 00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:04,280 well that's the name. That's not how No, that's not how that system 631 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,840 works. Have you read Vatican one? Yes? Okay? What does it 632 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:14,719 say? Does it say anything about the does the pet of okay? And 633 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:17,360 what's the okay? Wait a minute, what's the sin of apostasy? Yeah? 634 00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:20,519 Yeah, no, I guess no you don't. But what is the 635 00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:28,960 sin of apostasy? It's one a person publicly, okay, But but it's 636 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,119 not just like you don't have to verbally say it I publicly right now? 637 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:36,559 You can also signify that apostasy by your actions, by your by your worship. 638 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:42,679 You don't think so, yes, I think it does. Okay. 639 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,679 Do you think that Muslims and Christians worship the same God and so therefore it 640 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:52,519 is okay to worship in a mosque? I don't think it's okay to worship 641 00:59:52,599 --> 00:59:55,400 in a mosque. But I haven't met a served them whether we worshiped the 642 00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,920 same god. Okay? Why would the Council of I think v N call 643 01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:09,599 them godless infidels if you worship the same God. I don't know, because 644 01:00:10,679 --> 01:00:16,199 infidels? Okay, we can't worship the same God, and you don't worship 645 01:00:16,239 --> 01:00:20,639 the same God as an infidel by definition, And I'm pretty sure it's the 646 01:00:20,679 --> 01:00:23,440 Council of the End that calls Muslims infidels. Okay, I thought that infidel 647 01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:27,440 is like you have the wrong faith. No, that's a heretic. That's 648 01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,239 a heretic, not an infidel. Okay, okay, So do you think 649 01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:39,400 that an anti Trinitarian and a Trinitarian have the same God? Could be? 650 01:00:40,239 --> 01:00:44,159 How could you have this? How could they be the same God? Then? 651 01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:52,519 So, so Arius and Nicea we're worshiping the same God? I suppose 652 01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:54,719 they do. Yeah, okay, so you haven't learned the basics. And 653 01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,800 I'm not trying to be mean to you, but your Roman Catholicism has not 654 01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:05,079 even taught you fundamental Christian theology. The Council of Nicia excommunicates areas, they 655 01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:07,280 don't worship the same God. That's crazy. I'm not saying you're crazy. 656 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:12,599 I'm saying that's that position is crazy. This is like Nicea one o one. 657 01:01:13,119 --> 01:01:16,079 How could Arius and and and the Council of Nicea that excommunicates and worship 658 01:01:16,119 --> 01:01:22,679 the same God. Yeah, that's that's that's my point, I'm saying that, 659 01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:27,679 Okay, so you're not struggling, So you're struggling with Christianity. That's 660 01:01:27,719 --> 01:01:30,639 the point I'm getting at. This is actual Christianity. This is not which 661 01:01:30,719 --> 01:01:36,480 is the true Church. You haven't come to understand that there's no such thing 662 01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:39,559 as everybody worshiping the same generic God. There's only the Trinity. That's the 663 01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:45,400 Gospel. That's what Jesus preaches in the Book of John. So no, 664 01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:51,440 and and the very fact that you think that the same God is being worshiped 665 01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:55,320 by Arius and Athenacius shows that you haven't understood the Gospel yet. Not being 666 01:01:55,400 --> 01:02:00,760 mean, but this is a fact. And this is why anybody with the 667 01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,360 discernment that we would have as Christians could look at going in a mosque and 668 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:08,599 praying towards Mecca and say, this is not Christianity, This is some other 669 01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:14,559 world. This is some other facts, simile, fraudulent religion. I mean, 670 01:02:14,679 --> 01:02:19,960 but that's a big leap from No, it's not if you understand Christianity, 671 01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,800 it's not a leap at all. Do you think the Old Testament teaches 672 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:28,159 a generic God or does it teach the Trinity? The gospell No, No, 673 01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:30,239 the Old Testament of the Gospels, the Old Testament. Sorry, the 674 01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:35,679 Old Testament teaches the Trinity too, So how is that? So? Where 675 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:40,360 is this? Where is this aryan unitarian God that we all worshiped in Where's 676 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:47,360 that coming from? It of Area and his followers? Okay, so then 677 01:02:47,679 --> 01:02:52,360 so then you don't believe. Sorry, so then you don't believetat is Vatican 678 01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,360 too document that Muslims and Roman Catholics and Jews all worship the same God. 679 01:02:59,079 --> 01:03:02,760 I wouldn't be if I told you that I don't believe in Austria, of 680 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:13,320 course. So yeah, so so those two things are mutually exclusive. Well 681 01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:17,519 yeah, if you think that the catholic as contradicted itself, if you come 682 01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:21,079 to this conclusion, you can be Catholic. Well, I'm just saying the 683 01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:25,280 very conversation we're having. As you try to express faithfulness to Catholicism and nostro 684 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:31,199 Tate, you're immediately confronted with the nonsensical position of trying to say that Arius 685 01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:35,719 in the Council of Nicea are worse being the same God. Okay, then 686 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,039 why do we have a Council of Nicia. What's the point of that? 687 01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:42,239 Why excommunicate Uh, you know, me As and Arias, we're all worshiping 688 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:49,119 the same God. When you talk to have you ever talked to Jehova's Witness? 689 01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:54,559 Yeah? Slightly? Do you do you? Does it? Does it 690 01:03:54,679 --> 01:03:59,719 appear in the midst of those conversations that you guys have the same theology about 691 01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,880 God. No, but I think that they actually don't believe in our sing 692 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:10,440 God. Do you they have the same view as Arias? Okay? Maybe? 693 01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,320 Okay? So then so then Areas so Arias and Althoenatians don't worship the 694 01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:23,079 same God. I just thought that Arias fought that Christ came later, but 695 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:30,440 was still like one with the same God. Jew witnesses different gods. Now 696 01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:34,199 that they both teach that the uh, the Son of God is the first 697 01:04:34,239 --> 01:04:41,239 thing God created, Okay, yeah, that's problematic. I wouldn't say it's 698 01:04:41,239 --> 01:04:44,599 not problematic, it's it's it's a heresy. It's a different religion. Yeah, 699 01:04:44,639 --> 01:04:48,519 of course, of course, sure, Okay, So there's not the 700 01:04:48,599 --> 01:04:54,760 same deity being worshiped between uh, Jehovah's Witness and a person who believes in 701 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,800 the Trinity two different gods. Of course, then is not true? The 702 01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:05,920 is it says that that Unitarians and Trinitarians all worship the same guy. I 703 01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:13,079 witnesses Unitarians. Yes, yes, all right, I'm not trying to be 704 01:05:13,199 --> 01:05:15,599 mean, but you get the point. Good questions, So I'm not I'm 705 01:05:15,639 --> 01:05:21,239 not downplaying your approach to looking for good spiritual guidance. I think that's a 706 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:28,199 healthy initial approach. But you gotta consider the other doctrinal things that we're talking 707 01:05:28,239 --> 01:05:31,519 about. So again, great questions, not being mean, just pointing out 708 01:05:31,679 --> 01:05:34,320 I think what I think is the key issue here. So and I'm not. 709 01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:38,440 I enjoy chatting with you, Mario, not not being mean to you, 710 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,519 not trying to be rude. Pantheon, what's up? It was actually 711 01:05:42,559 --> 01:05:51,239 a good question. Hello, hey, hi j how are you great? 712 01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:59,679 What's up here? In your just I want to get two questions. One 713 01:06:00,519 --> 01:06:05,159 is the literal understanding of the genesis. You said in one of your streams 714 01:06:05,239 --> 01:06:12,639 have been consuming your content that the fall kicks started the kicks out of entropy, 715 01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,800 so death in the universe in general. What I cannot get my mind 716 01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:27,000 around is that without entropy you cannot have time any So entropy is the change 717 01:06:27,039 --> 01:06:30,880 in state of beings, so even the existence of the sun, you know, 718 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:36,840 that burns helium to create you know, the to create heat. It's 719 01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:43,639 such a natural part of the cosmos that okay, I can address this already. 720 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,519 So what what is being misunderstood here is the mode of nature before the 721 01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:51,679 fall and after the fall. So the assumption is that from your physics sort 722 01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:56,559 of approach here is that the way that nature operates now is essentially the way 723 01:06:56,599 --> 01:06:59,599 that it worked in the Garden of Eden. And if you read Genesis, 724 01:06:59,639 --> 01:07:02,159 Creation, Early Man, or if you read books like First Form Man by 725 01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:06,840 Saint Simmy the New Theologian, you'll realize that the premise or the presupposition of 726 01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:12,119 our view is that no, even the metaphysics of nature was different before the 727 01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:15,519 fall, so there was not entropy. And another reason for that is that 728 01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:19,800 the time as we experience it is also not identical to the Aon. So 729 01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:25,880 there is a timeless eternity called that's created, called the Aon, and that's 730 01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,280 the realm in which the angels in habit and so forth. If you read 731 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,960 Loski's Dogmatic Theology, there's a four page section on the Aon. I highly 732 01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:36,559 recommend that it's really good. Stein Eloy also goes into discussing the philosophy of 733 01:07:36,639 --> 01:07:41,920 time in Orthodox Dogmatics, volume one in about sixty pages. So those are 734 01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,800 good things to read on the philosophy of time when it comes to the Orthodox 735 01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:49,920 position. I also highly recommend doctor David Bradshaw's paper Time as a Divine Procession. 736 01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:57,039 So, no, we don't have one reductionist idea of time as the 737 01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:03,239 mode of nature post fall. So two different notes of time. Okay, 738 01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:08,360 very well explained. We'll look at that. So I guess then the age 739 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,679 of the Earth that we have in mind, you know, the ten thousand 740 01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:17,520 years that's taken to a different sort of types of time passing before and after 741 01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:25,159 the Fall. I don't think that young Earth creation necessarily relates to this point 742 01:08:25,239 --> 01:08:30,800 of of how time moves. So when when you know, the scientists say, 743 01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,079 you know, Earth is two hundred and fifty million years old and then 744 01:08:35,239 --> 01:08:43,600 we say no, what is the basis for us to say no? Well, 745 01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,920 that gets into the whole other rabbit hole of like weather, carbon dating 746 01:08:46,199 --> 01:08:55,039 is a legitimate whether radiation, whether light that comes from you know, distant 747 01:08:55,119 --> 01:08:58,560 galaxies took up billion years to get here. I mean, that's a whole 748 01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:03,279 other topic that I mean. I've written a few things criticizing that from a 749 01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:09,840 philosophical perspective. So, I mean it's in other words, if God can 750 01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,920 create Adam is a fully grown adult, then he can create a world that 751 01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:18,680 is already fully formed. So there's already a presupposition in this idea that somehow 752 01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:24,640 the light had to travel billions of years to get here, or light years 753 01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,399 or whatever to get here. I mean, it's all just based on assumptions 754 01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:33,640 of the long you know, AONs of time theory. But there's nothing about 755 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:42,159 the raw data that automatically tells you that it took giant AONs of time for 756 01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:45,680 that to be the case. It's a presupposition. So I don't I'm not 757 01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,840 a scientist, I'm not an astronomer. I can't tell you all the science 758 01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:54,800 facts. I can give you a philosophical critique of the presuppositions of those positions, 759 01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:59,000 though. Okay, I'm just and can I get one more question, 760 01:09:59,119 --> 01:10:03,800 peature. Okay, I was just thinking that you had said one of your 761 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:10,520 streams that the soul is created inception or you know, every every soul is 762 01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:15,199 new when it comes to life. Just a thought experiment. If if you're 763 01:10:15,239 --> 01:10:20,560 a parent and you know that is the probability that your child will be internally 764 01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:27,600 domb and go to Hell. Why why why should someone who is Orthodox with 765 01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:33,720 Christian risk and having kids shouldn't. Shouldn't the solution to human problem? You 766 01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,479 know, let's let's all go to mont Athos, hit the monasteries, live 767 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,359 an a schaetic life, and you know, call it an end to the 768 01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,520 human experiment. I know it's a bit normally weird thought experiment, but I 769 01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:51,119 definitely hear your thoughts from this. No, because to be is better than 770 01:10:51,199 --> 01:10:54,600 to not be. I mean, if it was better to not be, 771 01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:58,600 then God would not have created the world at all. But as Saint Maximums 772 01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,199 says, God created out of his own goodness, and so being flows forth, 773 01:11:01,319 --> 01:11:06,159 flows over because God is good and being is good. So it's better 774 01:11:06,239 --> 01:11:11,720 to be than to not be. And it's better to have life and to 775 01:11:12,039 --> 01:11:16,600 potentially go to heaven than to not exist at all. So the dominion mandate 776 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:21,560 of Genesis one still applies in that we are supposed to be fruitful and multiply. 777 01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:26,680 It's more important to be fruitful and multiply in a spiritual sense. But 778 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,680 the spiritual sense doesn't destroy or get rid of the natural sense. So a 779 01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:39,600 lot of heresies, a lot of gnostic and mystic sort of Zoroastrian or Manichaean 780 01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:45,439 type positions will because in our view we think that the spiritual is more important 781 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,359 than the temporal and the physical. They'll assume then that the temporal and physical 782 01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:53,880 is somehow evil and then we should get rid of it. The same line 783 01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:58,800 of reasoning goes that, oh, well, because spirituality is what matters, 784 01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:02,720 then everything material is suddenly evil. And that's always a temptation, especially for 785 01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:10,039 people who choose asthetic life and monasticism, and that's primarily the typical warning for 786 01:12:10,319 --> 01:12:14,359 monastics and those kinds of people is that they're usually tempted with a form of 787 01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:20,800 pre last or spiritual pride. So God's created a diverse group of humans and 788 01:12:21,119 --> 01:12:26,359 not everybody will have that life. Jesus specifically says that that's a gift for 789 01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:30,960 some people and not for everybody, So it doesn't make the production of children 790 01:12:31,479 --> 01:12:39,079 somehow because it's a lesser A lot of people have this idea that a lesser 791 01:12:39,199 --> 01:12:44,640 good is therefore an evil, and that's actually a neoplatonic presupposition that for example, 792 01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:50,840 Augustine has. Augustine says that if the value of singlehood is better than 793 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:57,319 marriage, then marriage must contain some kind of necessary evil, and that's a 794 01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:03,760 false dialectical thinking. So so no, not everybody is called to to live 795 01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:10,560 that life and to cease having offspring because God intends to populate, to populate 796 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,319 heaven. I mean, Father Deacon, I don't know if you would speak 797 01:13:13,359 --> 01:13:17,279 to that, because you have more experience as clergy, you know, interacting 798 01:13:17,359 --> 01:13:23,760 with married people, married priests, you know, Orthodox priests are married. 799 01:13:24,079 --> 01:13:27,399 You know, if we had this attitude that this was the ideal, then 800 01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,880 we would have like a Roman Catholic you know, stricture on no priests being 801 01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,279 married or something like that. Father Deacon, would you want to speak to 802 01:13:34,359 --> 01:13:36,840 that question, like, well, why aren't we all just you know, 803 01:13:38,039 --> 01:13:43,800 spiritual, spiritual people on Athos being cell to it and ceasing to have offspring. 804 01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:47,079 Isn't that truly spiritual? Yeah? I think you nailed it with the 805 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:59,079 kind of Greek metaphysics that Augustine presupposes and embraces that there's one good, yeah, 806 01:13:59,279 --> 01:14:08,279 and that if you're not, if you're not attempting and contemplating that good 807 01:14:08,399 --> 01:14:16,000 and and praying, then it's an evil and it's not even quite clear in 808 01:14:16,399 --> 01:14:23,920 Orthodox Fathers that the celibate and monastic life is a higher It might be for 809 01:14:24,399 --> 01:14:30,439 certain people in certain situations. But yeah, that's this question came up to 810 01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:36,960 that should I, you know, watch secular movies or listen to secular music 811 01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:44,079 or something like that with this idea of this kind of either or that if 812 01:14:44,079 --> 01:14:47,880 you're not moving up the ladder and doing the highest things, then you're falling 813 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:56,279 away from God, which is a dialectic. There isn't this in ethics, 814 01:14:56,319 --> 01:15:01,600 it would be called the ontological status of some thing of a moral would be 815 01:15:02,039 --> 01:15:08,920 objective, but the category of absolute is has to do with the category of 816 01:15:09,039 --> 01:15:17,319 stringency. In other words, do morally objective rules apply always everywhere, at 817 01:15:17,359 --> 01:15:21,000 the same degree for all people, And it's clearly not. It's not the 818 01:15:21,119 --> 01:15:28,239 case, And so Orthodoxy has a nuanced depends where you are, who you 819 01:15:28,359 --> 01:15:30,840 are. That's why you talk to your priest. There's no heart and fast 820 01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:36,439 rule, and we're not rule worshipers. Secular music might be bad for one 821 01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:40,960 person. At one level, it's it's good, you know, in so 822 01:15:41,079 --> 01:15:45,159 far as something exists, it's good. So you know, if it's not 823 01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:49,640 soul corrupting or something like that there's nothing wrong and it's a it's a good, 824 01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:54,159 it's an energy of God. Even in the secular world, when a 825 01:15:54,319 --> 01:16:03,079 musician or an artist produces something of beauty without you know, being orthodox or 826 01:16:03,119 --> 01:16:10,760 something like it, Does that make sense? Yeah, that was a great 827 01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,520 question, Father Digan. Where do you think this idea? I mean, 828 01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:19,439 it's kind of a gnostic iconoclastic idea that anything that isn't like immediately directly the 829 01:16:20,079 --> 01:16:25,319 quote spiritual or religious is somehow like evil. It's got to be destroyed, 830 01:16:25,399 --> 01:16:28,760 it's got to be I think it's a lot of I mean, I had 831 01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:32,039 this phase when I was a young evangelical where I felt like, oh, 832 01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,760 I have a bunch of CDs and VHS movies, and I thought that as 833 01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:41,159 an evangelical when I was like nineteen, that I had to throw it all 834 01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:44,640 away to show God that I was like really devoted and that I don't believe 835 01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:48,159 in anything secular. And but what I realized is that the problem isn't these 836 01:16:48,199 --> 01:16:54,199 externals. The problem was that I had an attachment to a lot of this 837 01:16:54,319 --> 01:16:59,399 goofy stuff that wasn't the thing itself. It was a disordered attachment. That 838 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:04,079 attachment was in me not in the objects themselves. And yeah, like Father 839 01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:06,960 you can said, I mean some of those movies are probably you know, 840 01:17:08,159 --> 01:17:13,279 of no aesthetic value or whatever, just like degenerate horror movies or something that 841 01:17:13,359 --> 01:17:15,239 I threw away or I had, like a I remember having like an hr 842 01:17:15,359 --> 01:17:18,920 Gieger poster at one point that I thought was really cool. And that's, 843 01:17:19,039 --> 01:17:24,359 you know, explicitly like a demonic thing that I was happy, I think, 844 01:17:24,399 --> 01:17:27,840 to get rid of. But beyond that kind of explicitly demonic stuff, 845 01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:32,319 I mean, the problem isn't the CDEs and the movie per se or the 846 01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:40,720 poster or it's the inner state that you have that you have an attachment to 847 01:17:41,159 --> 01:17:44,439 this, and it could be to anything. I mean, anything can become 848 01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,840 one of these idols that were attached to and it doesn't have to be a 849 01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:51,439 physical object. You can be attached to your heterodox idea that you worship. 850 01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:57,560 Somebody like Bryce and Gray who's wedded to this ridiculous Hebrew roots idea and he's 851 01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:01,199 so married to and wedded to this heterodox idea in his head and the pride 852 01:18:01,239 --> 01:18:05,840 that goes into that that that's an idol, more more of an idol than 853 01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:13,159 you know, like perhaps even you know, your CDs or whatever. Well, 854 01:18:13,159 --> 01:18:15,720 I was thinking like philosophy too, Yeah, philosophy is a great example. 855 01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:23,039 Yeah, all these people who I've noticed a trand among people who are 856 01:18:23,119 --> 01:18:30,920 anti presupposition is the anti tag and they they've made an idol of the scholastic 857 01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:39,079 and academic discipline of philosophy. Will just do this and all makes this system. 858 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:44,840 And I'm starting to notice it's blind people from certain obvious truths that should 859 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:49,439 be obvious. And I think all I do that, Yeah, exactly, 860 01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:58,159 their distraction from the truth of God. I call it ideolotry, so ideolotry, 861 01:19:00,359 --> 01:19:04,159 but I think to just the kind of falling is the man of wanting 862 01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:11,720 to get caught up in uh, I mean being prone to dialectics. Right, 863 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,000 I have to because I remember this growing up. God good, therefore 864 01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:19,560 world bad. Right, Yeah, I must deny the world and everything in 865 01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:28,279 it. Which is interesting from the evangelical perspective because they say that, you 866 01:19:28,399 --> 01:19:30,279 know, they speak out on one side of their mouths, saying that while 867 01:19:30,319 --> 01:19:38,640 they introduce actually secular culture exactly into the church, their church and music, 868 01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:45,000 and there might be even two has been thinking about the influence of the Puritans. 869 01:19:45,279 --> 01:19:48,960 Yeah, absolutely, I was thinking, because they were very iconic clastic. 870 01:19:49,079 --> 01:19:54,479 Yeah. In fact, when I was at a strict reform Presbyterian church, 871 01:19:54,640 --> 01:20:02,199 we would actually have conversations about whether like fantasy books like Tolkien or C. 872 01:20:02,399 --> 01:20:06,880 S. Lewis were sinful and violations of the law of God. Whether 873 01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:10,199 you could play a video game, was that a violation of the law of 874 01:20:10,239 --> 01:20:14,000 God? And the reasoning was that they're not real And so some of the 875 01:20:14,079 --> 01:20:17,159 Protestants, some of the Puritans, in their theology treatises, would argue that 876 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:23,319 anything that isn't for example, a real painting, is sin because it's depicting 877 01:20:23,399 --> 01:20:27,439 something that's not real, so it's therefore idolatry. So they got into almost 878 01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:32,439 like like Islamic level iconoclasm with trying to be you know, these weird Puritans. 879 01:20:33,239 --> 01:20:36,279 And the other thing too. That's interesting. My wife and I were 880 01:20:36,279 --> 01:20:42,239 talking about this last night. Do you know all the kind of rigid social 881 01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:46,399 and etiquette rules that the Puritans established? Yeah? Absolutely, I was all 882 01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:51,359 into their theology at one point. I mean, you're talk about like a 883 01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:59,239 sign of the cult, a cult, this kind of rigid forced rule worshiping. 884 01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:04,800 Everything in your life is controlled. You could be called up and excommunicated 885 01:21:05,159 --> 01:21:13,079 or you know, in the Civil Wars with Cromwell and stuff like that. 886 01:21:13,359 --> 01:21:18,439 The sort of things that they were doing because of rule worship. It's quite 887 01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:24,560 fascinating. So I think we're influenced by that, whether we like it or 888 01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:32,239 not. And it's come in certainly in the United States. So yeah, 889 01:21:32,319 --> 01:21:35,239 somebody in the chat is saying, I don't know if to you or to 890 01:21:35,319 --> 01:21:39,880 me, he's saying, didn't the Church fathers tell you to renounce everything? 891 01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:45,079 Didn't the Church fathers tell you to uh do the very thing that you're saying 892 01:21:45,239 --> 01:21:51,680 is isn't sinful? I've never seen it. I did. I love these 893 01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:56,680 general kind of well, I think he's like he's talking about like monastics stuff. 894 01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:59,199 So in other words, well, what would you say to the monastics, 895 01:21:59,279 --> 01:22:02,800 father deacon in because you're saying that that they're denying the world and aren't 896 01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,960 they more holy than you? That seems to be the sentiment of the some 897 01:22:06,119 --> 01:22:12,079 of the people in the chat. What would you say to that. It's 898 01:22:12,119 --> 01:22:20,000 a it's a calling. And the thing is there's different levels of it, 899 01:22:21,199 --> 01:22:30,359 so clearly and we can't all become monastics. I mean, there's just no 900 01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:34,960 way functionally that we could do that. So they've denied the world and they're 901 01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:41,920 no longer in the world either. But we're called to be deny the world. 902 01:22:42,119 --> 01:22:47,439 I think is I think this gentleman is getting confused about particulars. It's 903 01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:53,960 a mind isn't it a general mindset that I die to the world. I 904 01:22:54,119 --> 01:22:58,199 no longer think about the things in the world the way the secular mind does. 905 01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,479 That, I think is what the fathers and scriptures calling us all to 906 01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:10,520 do, whether we're monastics or not, is it's about prioritization. The way 907 01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:15,600 that I see these various things, I've had a mental needa change of mind, 908 01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:18,760 and the way that I approach these things, that's to put away the 909 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:23,479 world. That doesn't mean that, oh, I have to become a monk 910 01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,199 or something like that. Well. The other thing too, that people misunderstand, 911 01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:30,880 and it's very common, is that they think that to say that I'm 912 01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:33,880 denying the world, they think that it means like physicality and the objects in 913 01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:39,520 the world, like they think that the things themselves are the problem. The 914 01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:45,039 purpose of asceticism is nothing to do with the things in the world as objects. 915 01:23:45,119 --> 01:23:50,840 It's you not being controlled by the objects and your passions is the point. 916 01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:58,039 So when it says that you know, the world is under the power 917 01:23:58,079 --> 01:24:00,800 of Satan, Okay, it's not talking about physical objects. This is typical 918 01:24:01,039 --> 01:24:06,039 Gnostic sort of Protestant misunderstanding. It's talking about the world system that is the 919 01:24:06,119 --> 01:24:12,279 spiritual reality of Satan and his kingdom against God. It is not saying that 920 01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:15,640 working as a judge, or working as a policeman, or working as a 921 01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:20,439 soldier it means that you're evil because you're quote part of the world. This 922 01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:26,239 is all just total Gnostic misunderstanding that is very common to a lot of people 923 01:24:26,279 --> 01:24:30,439 that are new converts to evangelicals to and it's a temptation I think for people 924 01:24:31,279 --> 01:24:34,800 in monastic life too. And I mean to prove that, just read a 925 01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:40,279 lot of the monastic literature that's always warning the monks about the temptations to spiritual 926 01:24:40,319 --> 01:24:44,239 pride. Is that not correct? Yeah? Absolutely? And I like that 927 01:24:44,279 --> 01:24:47,920 you point out the gnostic aspect because if you remember when we were evangelicals, 928 01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:54,640 they would interpret things of the flesh. Yeah, exactly, as the body. 929 01:24:55,600 --> 01:25:00,119 Do you mean, yeah, physical, anything physical, anything material. 930 01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:09,319 When it was talking about the passions, basically the passions and putting things in 931 01:25:09,399 --> 01:25:15,079 the wrong place and making idols and letting, letting lower things rule the higher 932 01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:17,079 things. I mean, that's a good way to put it. Don't let 933 01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:20,239 your lower things your higher things exactly. That's that's the whole point. Yeah, 934 01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:28,000 and uh yeah, letting. Uh. I remember, idolatry is primarily 935 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,760 an issue of the inner man, the heart. It's not primarily an external 936 01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,960 thing. So Protestants also always think, for example, that, oh, 937 01:25:35,119 --> 01:25:40,239 when you kiss the icon, that's an action of idolatry. No. No, 938 01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:45,039 idolatry is first and foremost comes out of the heart of man. Is 939 01:25:45,079 --> 01:25:47,039 that This is what Jesus says to the Pharisees. It's not what goes into 940 01:25:47,079 --> 01:25:53,039 the mouth. It's not the externals primarily that defile a man. It's what 941 01:25:53,159 --> 01:25:58,159 comes out of his heart. That's the point here. And for some people 942 01:25:58,279 --> 01:26:01,439 the medicine might be different. Let's say you're let's say you're an eighteen year 943 01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:05,560 old dude and you have been obsessed with I don't know, some sort of 944 01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:09,920 weird music genre, and your whole life is just wrapped up in I don't 945 01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:13,439 know, some kind of weird music that you're all into. Okay, if 946 01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:16,199 that is an idol for you, it might be appropriate for you when you 947 01:26:16,319 --> 01:26:19,720 convert, your spiritual father might say it's time for you to take a break 948 01:26:20,359 --> 01:26:25,119 from this thing which has a huge hole on your life. Maybe it's video 949 01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:28,239 games, right, Maybe video game is a better example. Maybe you spend 950 01:26:28,239 --> 01:26:30,439 eight hours a day playing video games. This is an idol to you. 951 01:26:31,039 --> 01:26:36,560 Your spiritual father is gonna say you need to start tapering off of and detaching 952 01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:42,359 from video games. Your first inclination is going to be to think video games 953 01:26:42,399 --> 01:26:44,760 are of the devil and they're evil. Say you can create the video games, 954 01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:47,680 and I'm gonna go online and I'm gonna tweet out how everybody should never 955 01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:50,760 play video game and if you do, you're violating the fast and you're sending 956 01:26:50,880 --> 01:26:54,119 and I'm more pious than you. So now you're in a worse state. 957 01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:59,560 Literally, you're in a worst state because now you're a pharisee and now your 958 01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:03,800 public performatively portraying your piety to the world, how you're not playing video games 959 01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:09,560 anymore, and the hole you're missing The entire point. The entire point is 960 01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:15,560 that you need healing, and it might be appropriate for you for a time 961 01:27:15,199 --> 01:27:23,319 to fast from video games so that they're no longer having that idolatrous role in 962 01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:27,279 controlling your life and so forth. So that's the point and the point. 963 01:27:27,359 --> 01:27:30,279 The problem isn't in the video games. The problem isn't in all the people 964 01:27:30,319 --> 01:27:34,079 outside of you. This is the Father Turbo quote, which you're multiple people 965 01:27:34,079 --> 01:27:39,119 in the Chat have already pointed this out. When you become Orthodox, Before 966 01:27:39,159 --> 01:27:42,199 the Orthodox, you're ready to solve all the problems of the world out there. 967 01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,560 Oh, I need to fix everyone else because everybody else is so bad. 968 01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,000 And then when you become Orthodox, you start realizing, oh, wait 969 01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:54,359 a minute, actually the problem is in here. Are there problems out there? 970 01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:57,039 Yeah? But how are you going to solve all the problems out there 971 01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,000 before you start here? And start here? This is another thing I want 972 01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:04,399 to rant real quick on a lot of people. I've noticed young guys that 973 01:28:04,479 --> 01:28:08,239 convert and probably diging. I want your opinion on this. I think Father 974 01:28:08,319 --> 01:28:11,279 Moses made this point too. There's a lot of young guys, I think, 975 01:28:11,359 --> 01:28:14,199 and I did this too when I was younger. It's a temptation to 976 01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:23,600 use spirituality and spiritual things as a way to shirk responsibilities. So rather than 977 01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:30,439 thinking about how you're going to start a job or start a business, what 978 01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:34,119 you're going to do in the future, saving money, learning about you know, 979 01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:40,399 basic finance principles, this kind of stuff. Oh, I'm a self 980 01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:44,920 appointed Twitter monk, and I don't have to worry with these worldly things. 981 01:28:45,279 --> 01:28:48,199 Meanwhile, you live at home and you're angry and you're mad, and you 982 01:28:48,399 --> 01:28:54,920 don't have anything going on, and this spirituality is a cloak for lack of 983 01:28:55,079 --> 01:28:58,960 responsibility. Do you think that's a temptation for young guys too, which is 984 01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,239 I think a source of a lot of the anger that people are feeling. 985 01:29:01,199 --> 01:29:08,479 Yeah. Absolutely. And notice the other thing too, is that these people 986 01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:13,520 are prescribing their own medicine. Oh interesting, Yeah, it's not coming from 987 01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,119 their priest to tell they're prescribing where they need to be at, which is 988 01:29:16,159 --> 01:29:23,520 obviously a trap. And then something came up recently too that somebody had mentioned, 989 01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:29,680 you know, we was going to chat earlier today that somebody said, 990 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:35,000 Father Daniel or Saint Daniel, Father Daniel, you know, the martyr in 991 01:29:35,119 --> 01:29:42,319 Russia said not to get not to pay attention to conspiracy theories. Well, 992 01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:47,840 it depends on what you mean by conspiracy theories. But it's good to know 993 01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:55,000 geopolitics and what's going on, or there's nothing wrong with being politically involved because 994 01:29:55,039 --> 01:30:00,319 you're not a monk. Those things directly impact your family, your finance says, 995 01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:05,760 your neighbors, your parish, and so I've seen that temptation. Well, 996 01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:11,079 I don't get involved in politics, I don't vote, don't I don't 997 01:30:11,119 --> 01:30:14,319 pay attention to anything. I just read the prayers and stuff like that. 998 01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:17,239 Well, isn't that your point, Jay, that that's a great way to 999 01:30:17,359 --> 01:30:23,159 skirt responsibility. Isn't that nice that you don't do any of that stuff? 1000 01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:27,640 Yeah? I think meanwhile, people find that, like you invested in something 1001 01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:30,600 you shouldn't have, or something happened and now your family's desolate. Congratulations. 1002 01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:34,920 Yeah, I think Father Moses is making that point that, you know, 1003 01:30:36,359 --> 01:30:41,520 the temptation is, Oh, I'm gonna you know, master canon law, 1004 01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:44,960 I just convert. I'm a catechumen, I'm nineteen, I'm reading the canons. 1005 01:30:45,399 --> 01:30:47,079 I'm going to tell the priests and the bishops where they're wrong. I'm 1006 01:30:47,079 --> 01:30:51,560 going to do this and that. But you know, this person has no 1007 01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:57,359 life experience. It's never done anything, never dealt with like a real trauma 1008 01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:02,239 or hardship in their life, never built a business, has no wisdom yet 1009 01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:06,920 believes that they're in a position to act in that way. And I think 1010 01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:13,159 your point there is that it's a could you just briefly expand on what you 1011 01:31:13,239 --> 01:31:16,079 mean by prescribing their own medicine, because we might have a lot of people 1012 01:31:16,279 --> 01:31:24,119 that don't know what that means. So prayer, life, reading the Fathers 1013 01:31:24,239 --> 01:31:30,279 where you should be spiritually, from an orthodox point of view, that's medicine 1014 01:31:30,119 --> 01:31:33,560 because Christ calls us to become more than what we are. I guarantee you 1015 01:31:33,640 --> 01:31:39,000 nobody's spiritual father is telling them to go read the rudder. That's right. 1016 01:31:40,119 --> 01:31:45,880 And so what they're doing is they're creating in their own mind that, well, 1017 01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:50,880 I'm going to achieve these spiritual heights. I'm going to do these prayers, 1018 01:31:50,960 --> 01:31:55,880 I'm going to read this, I'm going to negate these things in life. 1019 01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:01,760 But they're doing it by themselves. They're not even beyond just like talking 1020 01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:11,239 to their priests. They're not even getting general counsel friends or or family members 1021 01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:17,039 or people that are wiser. They're just they've decided what's going to be best 1022 01:32:17,119 --> 01:32:20,880 for them and they prescribe it. And it's always disastrous, isn't it. 1023 01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:25,119 Yeah, I think that a lot of times you weren't in here yet. 1024 01:32:25,199 --> 01:32:29,199 But earlier we were talking about the couple people that, for example, we've 1025 01:32:29,319 --> 01:32:32,800 known over the last say five or six years who either were Orthodox or came 1026 01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:35,479 very close to Orthodoxy and decided, oh, I'm going to go to Rome. 1027 01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:40,359 And in both cases I can think of, there was an incident where 1028 01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:45,359 one of them said, oh, I prayed in the Rosary and I felt 1029 01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:48,840 good. So and when I prayed Orthodoxy, so it didn't make me feel 1030 01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:51,680 good. So it's it was just like that, yeah, so and these 1031 01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:56,439 are like not the right things to make your decisions based on, is what 1032 01:32:56,479 --> 01:33:00,800 I tried to say. The other thing, too, is that we just 1033 01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:08,479 finished up virtual ethics in our ethics class, and one thing that I realize 1034 01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:15,520 is that people want shortcuts. Yes, they want to get the answer by 1035 01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:19,319 looking up in the back of the in a textbook, and so they want 1036 01:33:19,359 --> 01:33:27,800 a hard and fast rule on that'll apply and guide them through all the difficulties 1037 01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:32,199 in life. And they don't like to answer that you're not going to be 1038 01:33:32,239 --> 01:33:35,880 able to achieve that there is nothing in a book that's going to be a 1039 01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:42,399 hard and fast rule that you can just read and study. You have to 1040 01:33:43,079 --> 01:33:48,479 be guided, you have to work hard with the help of a priest, 1041 01:33:49,399 --> 01:33:57,439 and you have to turn to people that have acquired the virtues and wisdom and 1042 01:33:57,560 --> 01:34:01,199 are much more spiritually advanced than you to help you. Now, people don't 1043 01:34:01,319 --> 01:34:08,000 like that. They want a papal bullet point list. I could just look 1044 01:34:08,039 --> 01:34:10,800 in a textbook and it'll just tell me what to do in all these ethical 1045 01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:19,680 situations. So I think it's the heart of its both a spiritual laziness and 1046 01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:23,840 then also pride. I can do it myself. I don't. I don't 1047 01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:30,479 want to have to turn to somebody and and trust my life to a spiritual 1048 01:34:30,520 --> 01:34:33,960 father or a priest. I want to be able to argue my way through 1049 01:34:34,119 --> 01:34:38,920 and figure this stuff all out on myself, and I want it all formulaic 1050 01:34:39,359 --> 01:34:43,920 and hard and fast rules. Then they end up being rule worshipers. Yeah, 1051 01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:48,039 that's a great point. And your insights on virtue ethics, by the 1052 01:34:48,079 --> 01:34:50,039 way, really good. I've been watching your lectures. I want to remind 1053 01:34:50,039 --> 01:34:55,319 everybody heading over to Patristic Faith, which is Father Deacon's channel, and you'll 1054 01:34:55,359 --> 01:34:59,840 notice that he has quite a few of his ethics course lectures which are which 1055 01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:03,920 are which are great because we we We are basically virtue ethicist. So if 1056 01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:08,800 you want to understand, well, what's the orthodox philosophy of ethics? Father 1057 01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:12,479 Deacon's course is really good I've done, I think whatever. However, many 1058 01:35:12,520 --> 01:35:14,479 have you got two or three up? I think I've watched two of them 1059 01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:19,880 at least. How many of you got up? Now? How many of 1060 01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:23,720 your courses are up? I think I've watched two. Do you have three 1061 01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:30,319 up yet? Yeah? No, I'll put some more up. I haven't 1062 01:35:30,359 --> 01:35:33,119 recording stuff. I just I don't always live stream it in that, but 1063 01:35:33,239 --> 01:35:36,880 I do have them recording. I can upload various ones. The last, 1064 01:35:38,720 --> 01:35:41,520 the last virtue ethics we did I thought was really good. Yeah, I 1065 01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:43,600 watched it was really good. Yeah, that's what I was telling people. 1066 01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:47,199 The one I haven't put up yet, Like you haven't that's really good? 1067 01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:51,239 Should upload that? Yeah, I've been watching them, the really good and 1068 01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:55,159 I'm telling everybody in the chat to go watch it. Noah m says for 1069 01:35:55,239 --> 01:35:57,520 three dollars that he was baptized brought in the church. With this, what 1070 01:35:57,600 --> 01:35:59,960 happens, we all get our paradigms we want. And by the way, 1071 01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:04,199 paradigm reorienting process is not going to happen just one time. Now, it 1072 01:36:04,279 --> 01:36:08,079 may not happen like at a mega level, like when you you know the 1073 01:36:08,159 --> 01:36:12,000 level of converting. But we're all going to have carryovers. We're all gonna 1074 01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:15,000 bring our baggage, and we have to remember that it takes a long time 1075 01:36:15,359 --> 01:36:18,800 for a lot of that baggage to get washed out. So you know we're 1076 01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:23,880 gonna be tempted when we become orthodox. Oh, I need to bring these 1077 01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,199 evangelical things in Orthodoxy to help orthodox you. Oh, I need to make 1078 01:36:27,319 --> 01:36:30,560 Orthodoxy tomistic to save it. And this is a wrong approach. So don't 1079 01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:35,439 be weirded out that you're going to continue to have kind of things you're going 1080 01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:40,399 to struggle with Big Boss sixteen dollars. You are mean and therefore you're wrong. 1081 01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:46,319 You are an accuser exactly. So that's the fallacy ad menum there that 1082 01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:49,560 I always engage in. Thank you, Big Boss, Arena twenty five dollars, 1083 01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:51,680 God blessed, Thank you so much, Verna. I appreciate that based 1084 01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:57,079 pay Piggy ten dollars. Can you do an impression of John Hagy offering up 1085 01:36:57,079 --> 01:37:01,399 blood moon pies to I ran for peace? Or tell everybody this is ament 1086 01:37:01,640 --> 01:37:05,399 a biblical prophecy. When a Ram attacks, it is of course because of 1087 01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:10,439 the thirteen blood moons that have appeared along with the signs of the aliens in 1088 01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,319 the sky. If we can only offer a fourteen blood moon, pish Israel 1089 01:37:14,920 --> 01:37:17,600 to a Ran for peace, we would have the return of Messiah. How's 1090 01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:20,960 that store? Ninety six ten dollars, Thank you so much, Store. 1091 01:37:21,039 --> 01:37:25,039 I wasn't expecting to do it, John Hagy, So it was a little 1092 01:37:25,119 --> 01:37:29,600 rough there. I apologize, Marincus man three dollars. What does it mean 1093 01:37:29,680 --> 01:37:32,960 to fill up what is lacking in the suffering of Christ? I think Paul 1094 01:37:33,079 --> 01:37:40,359 is saying that just as Christ went through a measure of suffering in his in 1095 01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:44,039 his flesh and his body throughout his life, and particularly of course in the 1096 01:37:44,079 --> 01:37:47,880 crucifixion, death and to sent into Hades, that we will also as the 1097 01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:54,039 body, experience a same measure of suffering. So Paul is basically saying that 1098 01:37:55,119 --> 01:38:01,760 God has in his providence for his saint Paul's life and a pointed suffering martyrdom 1099 01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:06,079 and then death that he would undergo, and that would quote fill up what 1100 01:38:06,319 --> 01:38:12,479 was lacking in the sense of the body of Christ. The people also going 1101 01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:15,600 through what Christ went through because we're mystically united to him. It doesn't mean 1102 01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:20,079 that Christ's sacrifice itself was lacking. It just means that his body would also 1103 01:38:20,239 --> 01:38:28,119 then also would also then in history go through the gates of death with Santathanatia 1104 01:38:28,159 --> 01:38:30,800 says that the Cross has turned the gate of death into the gate of life. 1105 01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:36,000 Cataclysm five dollars. Calvin was a collector of heresies. I would agree 1106 01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:41,319 with that. He accepts the Unomian premise and says that the sun is autotheos. 1107 01:38:41,399 --> 01:38:45,479 That is correct. Now, some Calvinists will try to argue that he 1108 01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:48,279 qualified this later on. Yeah, whatever, back in my right mind. 1109 01:38:48,359 --> 01:38:53,439 Eighty eight five dollars. This is some Orthodox love from an Orthodox grandmother. 1110 01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:58,520 Thank you so much. Appreciate that that sweet X five dollars. This is 1111 01:38:59,199 --> 01:39:12,840 probably to father Deacon. Tag entails supplemental arguments and it has proposition one as 1112 01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,720 its conclusion could be made. I don't know what that sentence means. Is 1113 01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:20,560 an attempt that begs the question. All other worldviews can account for knowledge, 1114 01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:26,079 so the first one is true. Give the non fallacious argument for TAG. 1115 01:39:26,199 --> 01:39:30,600 So this is the same thing that J. Mike puts in the Chat every 1116 01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:34,640 time. And we just did a stream with Father Deacon about his new paper 1117 01:39:35,079 --> 01:39:39,880 that he wrote addressing this very argument. So Father Deacon, would you have 1118 01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:43,520 any comments on a kind of the rundown that we just did on the live 1119 01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:49,760 stream a few days ago. The objection to tag that it's not logically demonstrating 1120 01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:54,319 that all the other world views are false, and it assumes the thing that 1121 01:39:54,439 --> 01:39:58,920 it's arguing in its first premise, and that I don't even remember what the 1122 01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:05,000 other what was the other things they say, I'll just go through and probably 1123 01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:13,000 address. So I think there's a mistake of understanding what generally, in principle 1124 01:40:13,239 --> 01:40:16,239 a transcendental deduction is. Yes, and oh that's right, because we were 1125 01:40:16,279 --> 01:40:23,760 talking about metal level arguments and what that is. So this gentleman was saying 1126 01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:28,560 that it assumes what you want to prove. But if you read the definition 1127 01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:34,319 just generally, how can't lays it out It's something that's not the conclusion of 1128 01:40:34,399 --> 01:40:44,399 a deduction, but must be assumed in order transcendentally deduced, such that experience 1129 01:40:45,039 --> 01:40:53,079 and knowledge and these predicates to be considered true about the world would be possible. 1130 01:40:53,680 --> 01:41:01,199 So you can't say that a transcendental argument in general role is question begging. 1131 01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:10,960 Now you might say, well, I don't see how orthodoxy, the 1132 01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:16,680 god of orthodoxy says that condition, which is a legitimate question, which goes 1133 01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:24,199 to again, well, that's why there are supplemental arguments in the sense of 1134 01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:33,119 again showing by the impossibility of the contrary that all world views boil into either 1135 01:41:33,359 --> 01:41:41,840 relatory theism or autonomous epistemology, and the problems that autonomous epistemology could not have 1136 01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:46,960 given account for knowledge or say that knowledge exists. And ultimately this goes back 1137 01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:58,039 to the radical disjunctive between there's only two possible positions, either accidentalism or purposeful 1138 01:41:58,119 --> 01:42:02,960 intentionalism. That would be a you know, accidentalism would be a defeat for 1139 01:42:03,119 --> 01:42:09,880 knowledge. So we can show how orthodoxy is the only thing that actually satisfies, 1140 01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:14,880 which is the strongest sort of argument. Yeah, Now a lot of 1141 01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:17,720 people are asking where is this paper that we covered in this live stream. 1142 01:42:17,720 --> 01:42:20,720 They want to read your paper. Is there a place where it's easily accessible. 1143 01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:27,720 I'll put it in the chat. I think almost all my papers academia 1144 01:42:28,359 --> 01:42:33,359 acadu, so I'll put that in the chat. Also, I find it 1145 01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:42,560 ironic. How can somebody say an argument works or it doesn't work, or 1146 01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:50,840 begs the question if they can't actually justify the normativity and legitimacy of principles of 1147 01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:56,600 logic exactly the principles and so yeah, we went into that in that live 1148 01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:59,039 stream, so I would say watch the livestream. We just did as well 1149 01:42:59,319 --> 01:43:04,279 because you made that point multiple times. It was really good. Okay. 1150 01:43:04,359 --> 01:43:10,239 Next up is a person who wanted to come into debate earlier, Fad and 1151 01:43:10,319 --> 01:43:14,840 a row Hand. So we're going to bring him up next. All right, 1152 01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:28,359 what's up? You gotta mute? Hey? Jamie? Yo, Jamie? 1153 01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,760 Could you make me a double shot? Hello? You are? What's 1154 01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:36,039 up? Man? Well? Is my so good? Yeah? Did you 1155 01:43:36,119 --> 01:43:41,960 hop off of your noble steed? Sad? Oh, I don't have one, 1156 01:43:42,079 --> 01:43:45,640 it's just a larbie. I didn't literally think you were Thad in a 1157 01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:48,840 row hand. So okay. So I would like to talk about evolution, 1158 01:43:50,279 --> 01:43:54,840 Uh, I would I will talk about it in a philosophical sense. Is 1159 01:43:54,920 --> 01:43:59,000 that what you want to get into? Hello? I was actually heading for 1160 01:43:59,159 --> 01:44:02,039 the Morti biolog I mean I'm not I'm not trained in that, so I 1161 01:44:02,079 --> 01:44:06,560 can't really address it. Okay, And it relates to a lot of other 1162 01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:11,079 stuff. If I take too long, we can take a break and maybe 1163 01:44:11,199 --> 01:44:15,600 come on later. Because it relates to a lot of stuff about anthropology, 1164 01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:21,079 like what is the dividing line between humans and animals? And how to reconcile 1165 01:44:21,239 --> 01:44:27,479 evolution with genesis? Do you do you have a philosophy of science perspective? 1166 01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:31,920 I'm not sure what you mean by that. Oh, so you never heard 1167 01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:38,920 of this discipline called philosophy science. I've heard of it. But so I 1168 01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:43,880 am. I am a Christian and right winger. So and I've listened to 1169 01:44:43,960 --> 01:44:46,479 your past stuff about evolution, and most of the time I noticed that you're 1170 01:44:46,600 --> 01:44:55,319 on the on the philosophical name. You conflated with impure empiricism. I can 1171 01:44:55,399 --> 01:44:59,399 flate Hold on you think I can? You think I can flate evolution with 1172 01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:01,880 empiricis I'm like, I don't know the difference between those two things. No, 1173 01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:05,680 no, no, I don't want to be negative about it. I 1174 01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:10,720 just noticed that whenever you talked about evolution, Darina evolution in the past, 1175 01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:17,720 it was more the argument got distracted about empiricism materialism. I see, right, 1176 01:45:17,760 --> 01:45:23,239 well, but most people from that perspective have that presupposition. So you're 1177 01:45:23,319 --> 01:45:28,720 correct that there are theistic evolutionists who would not be subject to all those criticisms. 1178 01:45:29,039 --> 01:45:32,600 But that video, the old videos addressing Darwinism were mainly directed at atheists, 1179 01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:39,800 not theistic evolutionists. So so now when you say you're a theistic Christian 1180 01:45:39,960 --> 01:45:45,079 or a Christian evolutionary proponent, can I ask you what theological tradition you mean 1181 01:45:45,119 --> 01:45:50,199 you're coming from. I'm kind of wishy, was she slowly complicated at the 1182 01:45:50,279 --> 01:45:57,640 moment. I used to be agnostic materialists up until two years ago, and 1183 01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:02,680 for the last two years I've been just learning and discerning and still soul and 1184 01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:10,399 that as a Catholic. So I'm Timothy Gordon and yourself, Jedaiah am my 1185 01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:15,520 two favorites. So I'm very glad and encourage that dialogue. And I happen 1186 01:46:15,560 --> 01:46:18,199 to go to an SSPX at the moment. But I'm not. I don't 1187 01:46:18,239 --> 01:46:21,560 have my eco attage or a rest body. Yeah, I think, yeah, 1188 01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:25,279 that's fair, And I'm not trying to be a douchebec. I don't. 1189 01:46:25,359 --> 01:46:30,279 I'm just I typically, I know my wheelhouses, and I'm not studied 1190 01:46:30,319 --> 01:46:33,680 in biology. I do believe that there's such a thing as natural selection. 1191 01:46:33,840 --> 01:46:40,319 I do believe that we had the ability within us to adapt, which I 1192 01:46:40,399 --> 01:46:45,520 think God put there. But I don't think any of that justifies macro transmutation 1193 01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:50,119 of species. So, and I've heard a million times what people think is 1194 01:46:50,199 --> 01:46:55,800 the argument for if you give it enough time, you know, the minor 1195 01:46:55,840 --> 01:46:59,680 adaptations will eventually produce something else. I don't find any of those arguments to 1196 01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:02,800 be vincing, So I stick to my wheelhouse, which is philosophy of science. 1197 01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:06,600 That's what I studied quite a bit in undergrad So if you want to 1198 01:47:08,079 --> 01:47:10,840 address that stuff, I can address it. We get to have that debate. 1199 01:47:11,239 --> 01:47:14,000 But when it comes to biology, I'll just concede to you. I 1200 01:47:14,039 --> 01:47:18,279 don't I don't know enough about biology. Okay, Yeah, the last like 1201 01:47:18,359 --> 01:47:24,600 a couple of weeks ago, another guy called in about evolutionary basically gave him 1202 01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:27,600 the same amounts that you had. Well, I mean, what do you 1203 01:47:27,680 --> 01:47:30,199 expect of me, Tom? I suppose so am I failing you here because 1204 01:47:30,199 --> 01:47:33,720 I don't know a whole discipline? But I mean humans only have enough time. 1205 01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:39,079 I mean I try my best to master geopolitical stuff, history, you 1206 01:47:39,159 --> 01:47:43,479 know. I mean I can't learn everything. So what what I mean here? 1207 01:47:43,600 --> 01:47:45,600 Let me put the argument this way. I mean, do you think 1208 01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:48,760 that biology and the science that you do, and I'm not knocking it, 1209 01:47:49,119 --> 01:47:56,239 do you think that it relies on any like philosophy of science? Yeah? 1210 01:47:56,359 --> 01:48:00,159 Sure, Okay, how do you know that you have the right starting points 1211 01:48:00,279 --> 01:48:02,479 for philosophy of science? I mean, maybe you do. I'm not saying 1212 01:48:02,479 --> 01:48:09,079 you don't, But how would you know if you do? Well, I 1213 01:48:09,199 --> 01:48:14,600 concede to you on philosophical grounds, fair enough, your point is totally cool. 1214 01:48:15,479 --> 01:48:21,439 So but on the statements I've heard from you on the biological aspects of 1215 01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:26,960 evolution, I could respond to those. And I also I have my half 1216 01:48:27,039 --> 01:48:34,159 baked maybe theoretical way of reconciling genesis with evolution, and it relates to let's 1217 01:48:34,199 --> 01:48:38,199 just put it. Let's just put it this way though, Like even if 1218 01:48:38,239 --> 01:48:40,880 you have a you know, a theory and all that, and I'm not 1219 01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:44,840 saying you don't like, I think the main issue will be if you want 1220 01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:50,960 a historic version of Christianity, whether Orthodox or Roman Catholic. The Six Ecumenical 1221 01:48:51,039 --> 01:48:57,000 Council has a very strict clear statement about their not being death before the fall. 1222 01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:01,199 So the challenge I think will be there, uh for your type of 1223 01:49:01,239 --> 01:49:04,600 position. Now, I know that Rome Catholicism is much more amenable in terms 1224 01:49:04,640 --> 01:49:10,640 of you know, Pious the twelfth and cyclical about theistic evolution. So you 1225 01:49:11,039 --> 01:49:14,720 if this is like the lynchpin thing for you, then you might be leaning 1226 01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:18,960 towards Rome Catholicism over something like that. I don't think Orthodoxy has explicit statements 1227 01:49:19,199 --> 01:49:25,279 like you have to affirm six day creation. It's more so that this is 1228 01:49:25,319 --> 01:49:30,119 pretty much the view everywhere. I mean, you really have to look hard 1229 01:49:30,279 --> 01:49:35,159 to find even something that's not that like with that with Saint Augustine, but 1230 01:49:35,399 --> 01:49:40,760 nobody holds Augustin's view because he believed in instantaneous creation. So Augustine is not 1231 01:49:41,439 --> 01:49:45,199 any way a like help for the evolution proponents or the people who don't believe 1232 01:49:45,199 --> 01:49:48,159 in six day creation. So I think ultimately just comes down to like our 1233 01:49:48,199 --> 01:50:01,319 presubpositions and anyway, so that I think, both historically and philosophically, evolution 1234 01:50:02,239 --> 01:50:11,720 since a macro revolution is predicated upon nominalism, and because if you think about 1235 01:50:12,359 --> 01:50:18,159 once, you have nominalism, which is a rejection of real essentialism, real 1236 01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:27,960 like essences that define what species are. And going back to Aristotle, species, 1237 01:50:28,239 --> 01:50:30,640 there's what he calls the fixity a species. Yeah, exactly, so 1238 01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:38,439 both historically what happens. And then I think what's necessary philosophically in order to 1239 01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:42,920 say species can change into others, evolve into other species, is you have 1240 01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:45,760 to blur the distinction. You have to break that kind of and reject the 1241 01:50:45,880 --> 01:50:53,279 real centralism so that you can say, blur the distinctions and say, well, 1242 01:50:53,319 --> 01:50:58,760 look see here a species could change into another species. All which is 1243 01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:04,720 to say, and so only modern biology has embraced phenomenalistic and rejection of teleology 1244 01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:13,319 and real essentialism within biology that allows them the kind of philosophical hardware to attempt 1245 01:51:13,399 --> 01:51:17,279 to make the case for evolution that species can change into other species. And 1246 01:51:17,359 --> 01:51:28,000 I think that's important to identify that presupposition. Anyway, I'm sorry this wasn't 1247 01:51:28,159 --> 01:51:31,000 kind of the thing that you wanted data, but we're going to move on 1248 01:51:31,399 --> 01:51:38,600 to let's see. Next up is a person who I'm assuming probably wants to 1249 01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:51,960 talk about seven day Advento stuff. What's up? You can unmute Chase? 1250 01:51:53,880 --> 01:52:01,520 Do you want to mute? Which Chase is Chase? Yes, sir, 1251 01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:04,039 I do. It's an honor to talk to you. I really appreciate you, 1252 01:52:04,159 --> 01:52:10,560 Jay, Well you don't really, but that's okay, No, I 1253 01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:15,560 really do. I respect your diligence and you your work. I respect your 1254 01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:24,439 work. I think I just have some questions, like, uh, maybe 1255 01:52:24,479 --> 01:52:26,760 two I put a few I've written. I don't know if you've seen any 1256 01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:30,000 that I wrote. I saw that you made a lot of videos. I 1257 01:52:30,039 --> 01:52:34,680 didn't watch the videos. Oh okay, well that's that's cool. So a 1258 01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:42,439 couple of questions would be like I know that you you'll say, like I 1259 01:52:42,520 --> 01:52:46,520 think in Thessalonica or I forget where it is, there's iconography in the churches 1260 01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:58,199 synagogue. Okay, you're saying the synagogue. I was thinking of some early 1261 01:52:58,359 --> 01:53:00,079 churches that you were talking about. But well, there are there are early 1262 01:53:00,159 --> 01:53:03,279 churches that have that. But most of the time we make the argument that 1263 01:53:03,439 --> 01:53:10,399 you can see early you know, contemporary with Christian synagogues in second third century 1264 01:53:10,479 --> 01:53:14,680 that have iconography. All right, So then my point would be, Paul 1265 01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:18,239 says, I mean, maybe maybe three points here if and they're they're quick. 1266 01:53:19,319 --> 01:53:23,960 So Paul says, the mystery of lawlessness, I mean just translated iniquity 1267 01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:30,680 is already at work first century, and so doesn't this prove a trend of 1268 01:53:30,720 --> 01:53:33,920 apostasy away from the John and tittleview. Okay, ken, wait, let's 1269 01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:36,479 take them one at a time. So my response to that would be, 1270 01:53:38,159 --> 01:53:42,640 it doesn't follow from the fact that Paul's saying that that the things that you're 1271 01:53:42,760 --> 01:53:46,680 identifying as apostasy, such as imagery, is what Paul's talking about. Well 1272 01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:49,199 let's not. Let's not connect that. No, but that doesn't we don't 1273 01:53:49,239 --> 01:53:53,399 have to connect those. That's fine, but that doesn't we don't have to 1274 01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:58,920 get into that. I'm just just as a general principle, he's saying because 1275 01:53:58,960 --> 01:54:02,479 it's translated sometimes as iniquity, but I'm saying it's also translated in some places 1276 01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:12,399 as lawlessness. So he's saying, the mystery of iniquity or lawlessness is already 1277 01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:15,479 at work. And so if what I would say is it's all the mystery 1278 01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:19,039 in some sense is that it's a law. And I maybe try to find 1279 01:54:19,119 --> 01:54:24,319 some consensus. Could you agree that there is a law, at least among 1280 01:54:24,439 --> 01:54:30,159 Jews that enforced lawlessness? Would you agree to that that there was among the 1281 01:54:30,239 --> 01:54:34,520 first century Judaism, there was actually to them, they called it law that 1282 01:54:35,159 --> 01:54:40,279 if you obeyed it, that it mandated in certain ways that you would break 1283 01:54:40,319 --> 01:54:44,199 God's law? Could we agree on that? Do you mean like a state 1284 01:54:44,319 --> 01:54:48,279 law that would break God's law or a divine law? It was Matthew fifteen. 1285 01:54:48,479 --> 01:54:53,399 You know this, and I've heard you traditions of the elders oral Torah 1286 01:54:53,520 --> 01:54:57,239 and Talmud is when it was written down, it was called Talmud at the 1287 01:54:57,279 --> 01:55:02,159 time. It was patristic tradition of century. Judaism was the law. What 1288 01:55:02,279 --> 01:55:08,760 I'm saying is a law of lawlessness. It's literally a law that mandates that 1289 01:55:09,159 --> 01:55:12,600 men break with the law of God. But could you agree with that? 1290 01:55:12,640 --> 01:55:15,880 I mean it was called tradition. Just make the argument that where are you 1291 01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:21,199 going with this argument that icons are the mystery lawlessness? The Sunday worship. 1292 01:55:21,359 --> 01:55:25,720 The Sunday worship is the breaking of the law that is, mister lawless. 1293 01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:29,439 So, first of all, do you think that the temple had icons in 1294 01:55:29,479 --> 01:55:33,279 it? I'm not even going there. I'm just trying to find a consensus 1295 01:55:33,399 --> 01:55:39,520 of definition of could we agree that there was what the Jews called the whole 1296 01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:42,520 like they even to this day, like you could go and see a Jewish 1297 01:55:42,520 --> 01:55:45,720 authorities they call it. If you say the whole law of Moses, you're 1298 01:55:45,720 --> 01:55:49,479 thinking oh, they're written text, and they say, no, the written 1299 01:55:49,560 --> 01:55:54,560 text is subsidiary and secondary and the oral tories. I'm aware of that, 1300 01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:58,760 correct, Yes, So they're actually saying, if you were to go to 1301 01:55:58,840 --> 01:56:02,760 a lecture, uh, the oral portion, it would be what the talmu 1302 01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:05,399 it is, and then the the index cards or notes. If you go 1303 01:56:05,479 --> 01:56:10,920 to the lectern the index those little note cards, that's the written text. 1304 01:56:11,560 --> 01:56:17,199 So to them, the primacy is on the I understand that. Yes, 1305 01:56:18,119 --> 01:56:23,960 okay, So when we get to Docitheus, he ends up saying what I'm 1306 01:56:24,039 --> 01:56:27,680 what I'm simply saying is there's an analog that that is troublesome to me, 1307 01:56:28,319 --> 01:56:30,359 is that in the Song of Solomon, the rabbis say there's a verse that 1308 01:56:30,439 --> 01:56:34,960 says thy tongue is that thy mouth is sweeter than wine, and they say 1309 01:56:35,039 --> 01:56:41,479 that this is the the oral Torah from the readings of the rabbis, is 1310 01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:45,640 sweeter and more authoritative than the written text. We don't make the argument that 1311 01:56:45,159 --> 01:56:49,159 the Song of Solomon is talking about patristic world tradition. So no, no, 1312 01:56:49,279 --> 01:56:51,479 no, no, I'm saying I'm saying, I'm trying to find a 1313 01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:57,000 consensus. I'm saying that the rabbis in first century Judaism. The battle that 1314 01:56:57,159 --> 01:57:00,399 was going I'm trying to establish what was the first century back and the first 1315 01:57:00,439 --> 01:57:05,960 century battle was with this law of lawlessness that literally mandated men to break God's 1316 01:57:06,039 --> 01:57:11,760 law. But it was tradition, and it was patristic tradition. It was 1317 01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:17,199 first century patricitic tradition that was the traditional enemy of the Apostolic faith. No, 1318 01:57:17,359 --> 01:57:23,039 I think that makes that makes you illuone. What is what is? 1319 01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:27,039 So? Then? What? It's all based on your faulty presupposition as to 1320 01:57:27,119 --> 01:57:30,399 what you think the mystery lawlessness is. So your argument is built on something 1321 01:57:30,439 --> 01:57:33,239 that it's not, because that's your pre supposition to prove your seven day advantage. 1322 01:57:34,319 --> 01:57:36,880 Okay, okay, so don't but okay, don't call it the mystery 1323 01:57:36,880 --> 01:57:40,720 of a Where do you get the Where do you get the canonical text that 1324 01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:45,319 you're using to attack the church from. I'm not going there. I'm just 1325 01:57:45,359 --> 01:57:49,319 trying to find it, but I'm asking you to go there. Well, 1326 01:57:49,680 --> 01:57:59,119 First and foremost, I take the view that recognizing and compiling a inspired text 1327 01:58:00,159 --> 01:58:03,960 is not proof of interpreting it. And the reason I would say, when 1328 01:58:04,159 --> 01:58:13,680 was it recognized and collected Okay, let can can. I know that you're 1329 01:58:13,720 --> 01:58:16,039 going to say it wasn't for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years later. 1330 01:58:16,319 --> 01:58:19,239 But okay, and you think, okay, you think that it's not that, 1331 01:58:19,479 --> 01:58:23,159 So when was it? Where's your proof of that? Well? My 1332 01:58:23,279 --> 01:58:28,720 point would be that that this and the sovereign prerogative of God, he in 1333 01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:34,479 his own sovereign prerogative didn't upload it all at once and in his sight begging 1334 01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:39,359 the question. So there's not an actual historical account of what you're saying. 1335 01:58:39,439 --> 01:58:43,560 I don't necessarily believe. I don't believe that that's because like when the New 1336 01:58:43,600 --> 01:58:48,039 Testament came out, certain cities were getting revelation before other cities, and everybody 1337 01:58:48,159 --> 01:58:51,039 wasn't having it all at once. And what I'm saying is it wasn't God's 1338 01:58:51,079 --> 01:58:57,359 will. When Ephesus had a church dispute our correnth, yes, I was 1339 01:58:57,439 --> 01:59:00,560 just addressing them the cannon, where's the can? When does it come to 1340 01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:03,680 there? Didn't need. What I'm saying is is that that that's not how 1341 01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:09,119 it wasn't God's prerogative. I'm not even sure that that's what God was concerned 1342 01:59:09,119 --> 01:59:13,560 about having a whole compiled text like, that's subsidiary I'm talking and that's nice. 1343 01:59:13,600 --> 01:59:15,960 So would that be because as a seven day avedis you believe in Ellen 1344 01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:20,039 White's ongoing charismatic revelation. Is that why I'm not a seventh day I'm not 1345 01:59:20,119 --> 01:59:24,960 a seventh Day at venice, I simply believe that there is a based on 1346 01:59:25,640 --> 01:59:31,239 based on Paul after the Resurrection Twice Acts, chapter twenty one. In twenty 1347 01:59:31,319 --> 01:59:34,359 two, he says, I am a Jew. Jesus says salvation is of 1348 01:59:34,399 --> 01:59:39,720 the Jews. John four, twenty two Romans. He's talking about gentiles. 1349 01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:43,640 He's saying he is a Jew who is one inwardly a Jew. And then 1350 01:59:43,680 --> 01:59:48,359 in that means a Christian. He doesn't say Christian. That's what it means. 1351 01:59:48,680 --> 01:59:53,560 The spiritual Israel in Galatians at the end of Galatians is the Church of 1352 01:59:53,640 --> 01:59:58,279 Galatia. Okay, So what I would say is before all that in Romans, 1353 01:59:58,680 --> 02:00:01,239 sorry, Jeremiah, what is your position? So you're not going to 1354 02:00:01,279 --> 02:00:05,039 get the right to sail the stuff and not disclose what your position is. 1355 02:00:06,199 --> 02:00:14,800 My position is that is that there is something called whey or nazarene Judaism, 1356 02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:19,239 and that what Jesus is battling over in the first century. Is who is 1357 02:00:19,279 --> 02:00:24,479 that? Right? You could call it that, But my argument would be 1358 02:00:24,560 --> 02:00:29,520 that the word that's a redundancy in the sense that Judaism Why Judah, And 1359 02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:33,279 it's because of Micah five two the hoold Bethlehem Efrita out of you will come 1360 02:00:33,359 --> 02:00:36,439 forth through me, your ruler over all Israel. Are you anti trinitarian or 1361 02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:45,880 not? No, I'm not anti trinitarian. I definitely believe in Father, 1362 02:00:45,039 --> 02:00:48,239 Son, and Holy Spirit, all the mechanics of it. It's I'm not 1363 02:00:48,359 --> 02:00:50,560 gonna I wouldn't get into all that. I would say that, well, 1364 02:00:51,039 --> 02:00:55,479 why don't you get into that? What do you mean? Because you don't 1365 02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:59,720 If if that was all I know is is God can manifest as a burning 1366 02:00:59,720 --> 02:01:03,319 book? Okay, like God? Can you know God can manifest into me 1367 02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:09,479 like that? Was? Is Jesus Jesus Jesus the eternal son of God? 1368 02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:13,039 Or is he a creature? I'm not arian? There was? I could 1369 02:01:13,359 --> 02:01:17,680 there was, He never did not exist, he always did exist. Okay, 1370 02:01:17,720 --> 02:01:20,239 you know, I mean, I'm not going to be arian constance. 1371 02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:25,800 So so the so the group that put the Bible together was the Apostate, 1372 02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:30,399 Mystery Lawlessness people right, I'm not. I'm not. Look all I'm going 1373 02:01:30,479 --> 02:01:33,000 to say, is it because I've I've read went through your article too on 1374 02:01:33,840 --> 02:01:41,960 church tradition, tradition in church and church history? Is your final authority? 1375 02:01:42,039 --> 02:01:47,279 The scriptures? What's your final authority? This? The spirit? What is 1376 02:01:47,359 --> 02:01:55,079 that? The Holy Spirit? Without that, there, the scriptures are dead 1377 02:01:55,159 --> 02:02:00,199 in ink on paper? How do we How do we adjudicate between a bunch 1378 02:02:00,199 --> 02:02:05,239 of different groups claiming to be led by the spirit? All here? Okay? 1379 02:02:05,279 --> 02:02:09,680 So so and I get that, but there's some sort of issues that 1380 02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:13,760 I would have with it, For instance, the oral Would you agree did 1381 02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:16,880 Jesus You're not answering, you're asking a two quote way did Jesus give you 1382 02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:19,159 just asked me. I asked you a question, and you asked me a 1383 02:02:19,239 --> 02:02:23,600 question that's two quote way. So I'm asking you to clarify where we're going. 1384 02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:26,359 Would you agree that? Let me put it this way, did Jesus 1385 02:02:26,520 --> 02:02:31,119 leave the church any way? To adjudicate between all the different heretics who claim 1386 02:02:31,159 --> 02:02:39,479 to be led by the spirit. I believe it existed in the apostles. 1387 02:02:41,439 --> 02:02:44,880 How between you and I, if we both believe that we're led by the 1388 02:02:44,960 --> 02:02:46,199 spirit, which is the thing that you appeel to as your final thing. 1389 02:02:46,279 --> 02:02:48,840 How do we adjudicate between these two things? Because you said, it's not 1390 02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:53,960 the dead letter that's the final It's not the Bible technically, well, technically 1391 02:02:55,079 --> 02:02:58,439 the church is, according to First Christian six, supposed to act as a 1392 02:02:58,479 --> 02:03:02,560 bate dean, which is a house of judgment. And Paul's standard is so 1393 02:03:02,640 --> 02:03:06,079 the standard is what your your sect? That's the standard we go to your 1394 02:03:06,319 --> 02:03:10,680 I'm going to I believe in the church, but all I'm all I'm saying, 1395 02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:15,560 brother, from like where the collective, the body of believers everywhere where? 1396 02:03:15,680 --> 02:03:18,319 Is that? Well? You think we're part of the mystery of lawlessness? 1397 02:03:18,439 --> 02:03:23,239 So this is your messianic sect. You, your messy s act is 1398 02:03:23,560 --> 02:03:26,319 is led by the spirit. I'm sure right, I know. So where 1399 02:03:26,359 --> 02:03:30,560 do we adjudicate? No, I, hey, I bro, I value 1400 02:03:30,600 --> 02:03:33,560 you, I appreciate you. I'm I learned from you. I'm not I'm 1401 02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:36,199 not sitting here saying I don't care about you. Yeah, that's why you've 1402 02:03:36,239 --> 02:03:40,399 got like thirty videos calling me out. That's a bunch of bologney. All 1403 02:03:40,439 --> 02:03:42,720 right, this is not going anywhere, So we're going to move on the 1404 02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:45,079 architect, what's up? So I'm never going to get an answer as to 1405 02:03:45,159 --> 02:03:49,279 what adjudicates between two people claiming to be led by the spirit. My point 1406 02:03:49,399 --> 02:03:55,159 then being that Jesus didn't even give to the church a mechanism to judge between 1407 02:03:55,479 --> 02:03:59,920 a thousand different loans claiming to be led by the spirit. Did he not 1408 02:04:00,199 --> 02:04:02,159 foresee that there would be It seems like he did foresee that there would be 1409 02:04:02,199 --> 02:04:05,640 some problems. And it seems like you said that the church would not fail 1410 02:04:06,319 --> 02:04:12,079 and that the mystery of lawlessness would not be controlling the church since the first 1411 02:04:12,159 --> 02:04:14,760 century. So no, I don't think the mystery of lawlessness is what you 1412 02:04:14,800 --> 02:04:23,319 think that it is. Go ahead, architect, Hey, what's up? 1413 02:04:23,359 --> 02:04:27,840 How are you doing good? Hey? So I wanted to talk about the 1414 02:04:28,239 --> 02:04:30,720 tag and so what I specifically wanted to ask. I know you've touched on 1415 02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:33,159 this a little bit earlier, but I wanted you to expound upon it. 1416 02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:41,640 But this idea that only the Christian worldview has the necessary conceptual machinery to account 1417 02:04:41,680 --> 02:04:45,199 for universals. Right, So it's not just for universals, it's for all 1418 02:04:45,279 --> 02:04:49,279 of the transcendental categories, right right. But that's specifically what comes to mind. 1419 02:04:51,039 --> 02:04:55,359 But so, yeah, I know you've talked specifically about a divine mind, 1420 02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:58,600 right, but that's also compatible, you know with use like neoplatonism. 1421 02:04:58,640 --> 02:05:00,239 Well, it's specifically, and that's why we go into just pointing out how 1422 02:05:00,279 --> 02:05:05,279 neoplatonism doesn't do that work because of the fundamental problems of neoplatonism, right. 1423 02:05:05,399 --> 02:05:09,880 So, but I'm specifically interested in what you mentioned earlier about the Christian view 1424 02:05:09,920 --> 02:05:13,680 of history, right, the Christian philosophy of history. So yeah, I'm 1425 02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:16,359 just curious for you to expound a little bit upon that and emphasize how specifically 1426 02:05:16,439 --> 02:05:20,520 that view of history contributes to the ability of the Christian world view to account. 1427 02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:25,479 Well. Earlier, I was addressing the argument that what if somebody said 1428 02:05:25,600 --> 02:05:30,159 that I have all of your same metaphysics, but it's like I don't know, 1429 02:05:30,319 --> 02:05:35,039 some new made up like Pagan or say a wo Tan trinity. What 1430 02:05:35,159 --> 02:05:39,800 if I posited a deity that had all of your same metaphysics, And I 1431 02:05:39,920 --> 02:05:44,800 was saying that it wouldn't work because number one, our view is not just 1432 02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:46,520 a thing you can sort of make up on the spot. It's intimately tied 1433 02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:51,520 to history and the revelation of the Christian message. Through the person of Christ. 1434 02:05:53,039 --> 02:05:58,840 And that's unique because you don't get what we have as a historical revelation 1435 02:05:59,079 --> 02:06:02,520 in quite a few religions. Some religions are pro history, but many religions 1436 02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:06,960 are ahistorical or anti time in space, and so they would actually be, 1437 02:06:08,479 --> 02:06:11,239 you know, something like I don't know, Buddhism or something like that, 1438 02:06:11,279 --> 02:06:15,000 where you sort of need to transcend this world or this dimension, this reality, 1439 02:06:15,119 --> 02:06:18,079 or some form of gnosticism that's anti this world. So what I was 1440 02:06:18,159 --> 02:06:25,560 just saying is that number one, the position would be inauthentic because it wouldn't 1441 02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:29,640 be giving an account for history to just pose it on the spot a new, 1442 02:06:29,800 --> 02:06:33,680 made up sort of deity. And it also wouldn't work because it's obviously 1443 02:06:33,960 --> 02:06:42,079 cribbing from an earlier existing Christian position. Right. But regarding history, what 1444 02:06:42,159 --> 02:06:44,840 you just said about cribbing from the Christian position, is that not a separate 1445 02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:48,159 question, right? So if we're specifically talking about accounting for transcendental categories, 1446 02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:54,199 No, if his ultimate principle is something that's obviously just borrowed from our position, 1447 02:06:54,279 --> 02:06:59,359 that wouldn't work. Why not because it's obviously borrowed from our position? 1448 02:07:00,399 --> 02:07:02,479 I mean, the specific question of asking is why does that make it false? 1449 02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:05,439 Right? So, because it's fraudulent, it would be a fac simile 1450 02:07:08,159 --> 02:07:10,520 Wait all low or not? Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by 1451 02:07:10,560 --> 02:07:14,720 that. You don't know what the words fraudulent in fact simile of a previously 1452 02:07:14,760 --> 02:07:18,319 existing position would be. I guess I'm just confused as to why specifically this 1453 02:07:18,439 --> 02:07:21,520 is relevant. So we're trying to account for this because it's not because the 1454 02:07:21,680 --> 02:07:30,239 position has to be not just a metaphysical abstraction. Our position also says that 1455 02:07:30,399 --> 02:07:34,960 God steps into time and space. And so if his position is ripping off 1456 02:07:35,039 --> 02:07:40,199 our position, because that was the example that the atheist or the person gave, 1457 02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:44,359 it would not be our position. Because our position identifies Christ as the 1458 02:07:44,399 --> 02:07:47,560 person of history. So how could you identify Christ as a person in history 1459 02:07:48,079 --> 02:07:51,119 in a fact simile position that you've made up, it would be It would 1460 02:07:51,119 --> 02:07:59,279 not be It would be our position. And furthermore, in our position claims 1461 02:07:59,319 --> 02:08:09,000 that it's unique, So that is exclusionary. And so it's self defeating to 1462 02:08:09,159 --> 02:08:15,920 say that you could just copy an abstract the theory when part of the theory 1463 02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:22,439 is not only that it matches the history, you fits the observation but that 1464 02:08:22,560 --> 02:08:26,439 it's exclusive. So this would say it'd have to say it's both exclusive and 1465 02:08:26,520 --> 02:08:31,159 not exclusive, because I have the ability to rip off the same theory. 1466 02:08:31,680 --> 02:08:37,359 In other words, part of the Orthodox paradigm. It says not be. 1467 02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:41,119 In other words, Orthodox theory A says not B. So if you rip 1468 02:08:41,319 --> 02:08:46,159 if your B and you rip off Orthodox theory A, you're saying B and 1469 02:08:46,279 --> 02:08:52,720 not B, which is a contradiction. It's self defeating. Well, what 1470 02:08:52,840 --> 02:08:56,720 I'm specifically asking is if somebody were to adopt specific parts of the Orthodox Christian 1471 02:08:56,760 --> 02:09:01,600 machinery, right, Well, the argument, the argument was for the holistic 1472 02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:05,159 paradigm, not picking and choosing, not trying to be rid to you. 1473 02:09:05,239 --> 02:09:07,600 But I want to get through more people because I'm have to go be on 1474 02:09:07,800 --> 02:09:11,720 Patrick Henningson's show here in a moment, in about fifteen minutes, I'll be 1475 02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:18,239 on his show over on TNT, and we'll be discussing actually black Hebrew Israelites, 1476 02:09:18,680 --> 02:09:22,880 weird cults and how they might be being used by the establishment. So 1477 02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:28,000 we'll try to get through these quick between the between something I can't see the 1478 02:09:28,039 --> 02:09:35,039 rest of it. Between something what's up, man, I didn't realize it 1479 02:09:35,199 --> 02:09:39,119 was four fifty Someone have to go really soon. But go ahead. I'm 1480 02:09:39,159 --> 02:09:41,560 you. How's going. I'll try to hurry the best I can. I 1481 02:09:41,640 --> 02:09:46,399 thought difficulty funding get satisfactory answer for this. It seems to me that when 1482 02:09:46,439 --> 02:09:50,880 Paul sets the qualifications for elders in Titus and in Timothy, that includes a 1483 02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:54,479 list of qualifications for elders and for those who oversee the church. That includes 1484 02:09:54,520 --> 02:09:58,479 things like the ability to teach, not being prone to anger. Obviously they 1485 02:09:58,520 --> 02:10:01,119 can't be greedy so that they'll steal from the church, and so forth. 1486 02:10:01,479 --> 02:10:03,239 And among these qualifications is the fact that an elder is supposed to be the 1487 02:10:03,319 --> 02:10:07,800 husband of a first or of one wife, and also that he's supposed to 1488 02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:09,239 have children, that these children should be on a subjection, and that they 1489 02:10:09,279 --> 02:10:13,479 also be our believing children. Now I know that in Eastern Orthodoxy a married 1490 02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:16,760 man can become a priest if I understand correctly, but once he has taken 1491 02:10:16,840 --> 02:10:20,159 his holy orders, so to speak, he's not permitted to be married. 1492 02:10:20,760 --> 02:10:22,560 I also, if that's the case, it also means he cannot be married 1493 02:10:22,880 --> 02:10:26,760 and also become a priest or a leader inside the church. This seems a 1494 02:10:26,840 --> 02:10:31,199 violation of the scripture, where it's clearly laid out. Not only is he 1495 02:10:31,239 --> 02:10:33,199 unmarried, but he also doesn't have children, and also the not believing children. 1496 02:10:33,720 --> 02:10:37,239 This is given to us to describe how we're to know whether or not 1497 02:10:37,279 --> 02:10:39,760 he's worthy of the position, because we can look at the way that he 1498 02:10:41,119 --> 02:10:43,279 runs his family and say to ourselves, yes, he treats his wife a 1499 02:10:43,319 --> 02:10:46,920 certain way. Yes, his children are believers, Yes they're in subjection. 1500 02:10:46,279 --> 02:10:50,000 Therefore this person can serve the church. I know that Catholic Roman Catholicism, 1501 02:10:50,039 --> 02:10:54,720 I'm getting to my question. I know that Roman Catholicism in this case requires 1502 02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:56,720 you to be celibate, and that's not the case for Eastern Orthodoxy. But 1503 02:10:56,840 --> 02:11:01,039 allowing an Eastern Orthodoxy a priest to be unmarried into the position seems in violation 1504 02:11:01,079 --> 02:11:05,560 of the scriptures. What is the as I said, the rationality for being 1505 02:11:05,600 --> 02:11:11,520 able to pull this one verse out of its contacts and to ignorge devastating dude, 1506 02:11:11,560 --> 02:11:15,960 you got us, father Degan, Would you want to speak to that? 1507 02:11:18,199 --> 02:11:22,880 Yeah, So, I think the first mistake is that to read everything 1508 02:11:24,600 --> 02:11:31,079 in scripture in the same way. This is kind of the problems that Judaizers 1509 02:11:33,239 --> 02:11:37,840 have, that you have to keep the tora that all laws or all prescriptions 1510 02:11:37,880 --> 02:11:46,319 are everything recorded, and scripture are always applied everywhere at all times, in 1511 02:11:46,439 --> 02:11:54,039 all ways. And obviously we see that certain prescriptions and commands we're given to 1512 02:11:54,159 --> 02:11:58,520 God's people for particular reasons at particular times. That doesn't mean that there's this 1513 02:11:58,640 --> 02:12:03,319 time of eternal koran and rule in the heavens. Yeah, the Protestant read. 1514 02:12:03,760 --> 02:12:09,439 The Protestant reads everything that Paul ever lists as an eternal law, and 1515 02:12:09,640 --> 02:12:13,479 that there's no such thing as economia. And Jesus knew that the Church would 1516 02:12:13,560 --> 02:12:16,520 encounter different challenges at different times and in different places, So there has to 1517 02:12:16,600 --> 02:12:22,439 be some flexibility in practice when it comes to how these things work in history. 1518 02:12:22,920 --> 02:12:30,079 And the reason for bishops not having families is because the duties of bishops 1519 02:12:30,119 --> 02:12:35,600 in the ancient world got to be so difficult that it was not possible for 1520 02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:39,119 them in the ancient world to travel with a family everywhere, and so it 1521 02:12:39,239 --> 02:12:45,159 became easier to draw the bishops from the monasteries. So the church faced a 1522 02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:50,520 real politic. Because this guy has in his profilogy he deals with real politic. 1523 02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:54,520 The Church faces real politic where they had to deal with a historical reality, 1524 02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:58,319 and that's what they found to be a better practical scenario. So could 1525 02:12:58,479 --> 02:13:01,960 theoreticly a bishop be married. Sure, that's happened. I'm sure in the 1526 02:13:03,039 --> 02:13:07,039 history of the Church. There's no ironclad law that that couldn't happen. But 1527 02:13:07,520 --> 02:13:11,359 the mistake that he's making is to think that every qualification or everything that's done, 1528 02:13:11,920 --> 02:13:16,640 uh in even in the Pauline period isn't necessarily an eternal law. It's 1529 02:13:16,640 --> 02:13:20,000 a great point. Further, you can appreciate that I want to Yeah, 1530 02:13:20,359 --> 02:13:28,239 this is another example of kind of rule worship that I misunderstanding what the purpose 1531 02:13:28,279 --> 02:13:33,199 of law is. This is why in both Roman Catholicism process they don't have 1532 02:13:33,359 --> 02:13:37,920 this kind of principle of economyia right, because they're legalistic rule worshippers that the 1533 02:13:39,039 --> 02:13:43,600 law has to be absolutely applied everywhere at all times. It's this eternal kind 1534 02:13:43,640 --> 02:13:50,439 of platonic, very Muslim kind of understanding absolutely what law is. And but 1535 02:13:50,560 --> 02:13:56,119 it's not. The law has a teleological and purpose in which it's applied. 1536 02:13:56,520 --> 02:14:01,319 And also I think the mistake too is it sets screw sure over and above 1537 02:14:01,880 --> 02:14:07,079 the church rather than in synergy and part of the church is that. Yeah, 1538 02:14:07,119 --> 02:14:11,560 Paul says the Yeah, the true. The pillar and ground of truth 1539 02:14:11,720 --> 02:14:16,640 is the church, not written texts. The church interprets and applies the written 1540 02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:18,960 text. This is why there's such a thing as canon law. Are we 1541 02:14:18,039 --> 02:14:26,640 gonna be quick here? Isaac? What's up? Isaac? Got it on 1542 02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:50,079 mute? I guess he dropped off, Sapphire, Okay, what I can't 1543 02:14:50,079 --> 02:14:56,000 hear you, maw, I'm not Isaac. No, he dropped off, 1544 02:14:56,039 --> 02:14:58,640 And then I said, Sapphire, all right, I have a very short 1545 02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:05,640 question. Okay, it's not very serious, but aliens are they fake or 1546 02:15:05,399 --> 02:15:09,479 are they demons? Or they're fake and gay and they're also demons. So 1547 02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:16,199 how's that? Let's see Thomas. What's up? Thomas? Guys, remember 1548 02:15:16,239 --> 02:15:18,159 to get tickets to our Vegas event. We'll be live in Vegas with Jamie 1549 02:15:18,199 --> 02:15:24,520 Kennedy. It's a six hour event of unashamed infotainment, comedy, conspiracy, 1550 02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:31,000 deep geopolitical analysis, esoterica, and stand up all at one event in six 1551 02:15:31,119 --> 02:15:35,039 hours June twenty second in Las Vegas. Get your tickets right there. It's 1552 02:15:35,079 --> 02:15:37,239 going to be a blast. Also, Isaac Vaishapp will be joining us too, 1553 02:15:37,359 --> 02:15:41,079 because he's not too far from that region. So get your tickets right 1554 02:15:41,159 --> 02:15:43,760 there. The link is in the show description and the link is in the 1555 02:15:43,880 --> 02:15:52,079 chat. What's up, man, Thomas? Are you there, sir? 1556 02:15:52,119 --> 02:15:56,319 How are you doing? I'd just like to say thank you Jay for your 1557 02:15:56,640 --> 02:16:03,439 apologetics for the Orthodoxy. So I'm an Anglican Orderland currently, but it's very 1558 02:16:03,479 --> 02:16:07,359 much looking like I'm going to convert to Orthodoxy and pursue the priesthood the antiochy 1559 02:16:07,399 --> 02:16:11,439 and Orthodox Church in the UK. So yeah, you're watching your stuff for 1560 02:16:11,439 --> 02:16:16,600 the last few months and it's just really really helped a lot. I don't 1561 02:16:16,640 --> 02:16:20,039 know other people in this country who have also been led by your discussions and 1562 02:16:20,560 --> 02:16:24,560 your writings and stuff. So yeah, the more streams you could do at 1563 02:16:24,600 --> 02:16:26,319 these kinds of times so that people in Europe and the UK and stuff can 1564 02:16:26,399 --> 02:16:30,960 get involved, and yeah, just be great. All right, question, 1565 02:16:31,840 --> 02:16:37,600 Thank you man, I appreciate it particular. Thank you glad to hear about 1566 02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:45,000 heading in that direction. Happy Fortune, what's up? Happy Fortune? You're 1567 02:16:45,040 --> 02:16:52,840 right? A happy Watune? Open cookie, Happy fortune cookie? I knew 1568 02:16:56,440 --> 02:17:01,360 roll stake ten dollars says the Protestants rud use Orthodox arguments against Roman Catholics. 1569 02:17:01,760 --> 02:17:05,159 Why do they do that? If they pick and choose the parts of ecumenical 1570 02:17:05,239 --> 02:17:09,959 councils. Well, I imagine that answers your question right there. They're picking 1571 02:17:09,000 --> 02:17:13,159 and choosing the parts that might help the Protestant case. They don't have a 1572 02:17:13,239 --> 02:17:16,280 notion of Norman authority exactly. And that was kind of the point that I 1573 02:17:16,360 --> 02:17:22,360 was getting into with the guy that was messianagudism or whatever. No, I 1574 02:17:22,520 --> 02:17:26,440 M five dollars. Do you consider the Poscian Council of A sixty nine and 1575 02:17:26,600 --> 02:17:31,399 the Palomite Synods to be quote ecumenical councils. It doesn't matter what you call 1576 02:17:31,479 --> 02:17:37,600 them ecumenical councils, they're just authoritative pan Orthodox synods. Some people say that 1577 02:17:39,159 --> 02:17:41,639 it doesn't teach any new dogmas. Well, I mean there's no rule that 1578 02:17:43,319 --> 02:17:46,600 like a council has to quote teach a quote new dogma. That sounds like 1579 02:17:46,959 --> 02:17:48,959 that's like a Roman Catholic argument where they say the Oh, Vatican two doesn't 1580 02:17:50,000 --> 02:17:54,959 count because they quote didn't teach new dogmas. Yeah, I mean the Palomite 1581 02:17:54,000 --> 02:18:00,319 Synods are accepted in the Orthodox world. They are referred to in the since 1582 02:18:00,399 --> 02:18:05,079 that we just had Saint Gregory Palamas Sunday in the Linton cycle a few Sundays 1583 02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:13,760 ago. So whether you call them quote acumenical or pan Orthodox synods or just 1584 02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:18,959 accepted Orthodox synods, it doesn't matter because there there are teaching. Absolutely, 1585 02:18:20,760 --> 02:18:22,319 honeybe one hundred dollars. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate that kind 1586 02:18:22,360 --> 02:18:26,879 of winning the super chat race tonight, Maya Max Sherry three dollars. Are 1587 02:18:26,879 --> 02:18:31,719 you going to debate cosmic skeptic? If you took him down the load tier 1588 02:18:31,799 --> 02:18:35,639 TikTok atheists would crumble in their culture. Yeah. So the thing with that 1589 02:18:35,920 --> 02:18:39,159 is that I've reached out multiple times. I've tweeted at him. I don't 1590 02:18:39,159 --> 02:18:43,200 know how many times. I think one time I tweeted at him and it 1591 02:18:43,319 --> 02:18:48,879 got like Muhammed hi jab it got hundreds of likes and shares. Say, 1592 02:18:48,959 --> 02:18:52,120 with Ben Shapiro, I don't think those people have any motivation to want to 1593 02:18:52,200 --> 02:18:54,879 interact with me. I mean, they don't stand to gain anything by that 1594 02:18:54,959 --> 02:19:00,120 interaction. So I mean, I can keep trying, but I don't think 1595 02:19:00,120 --> 02:19:03,360 that's gonna happen anytime soon. L two A five dollars. Have you brushed 1596 02:19:03,440 --> 02:19:07,399 up on any Steve quail impressions. I haven't thought about Steve Quillen in a 1597 02:19:07,399 --> 02:19:09,319 long time, so so when I did the last Steve Quail impression, we're 1598 02:19:09,360 --> 02:19:13,600 going to open up the portals for the Ananaki to come through Vicern. How's 1599 02:19:13,639 --> 02:19:16,760 that? That's my good enough, that's mine. I haven't thought about Steve 1600 02:19:16,840 --> 02:19:20,200 Quilling so long. But ten dollars from argument. Please, I sent a 1601 02:19:20,319 --> 02:19:24,440 question earlier. You didn't answer it. I'm sorry. I did answer it 1602 02:19:24,600 --> 02:19:28,559 by handing it over to Father Deacon anaias. What's the argument that concludes point 1603 02:19:28,639 --> 02:19:35,639 one of tag? So why would point one conclude when it's point one and 1604 02:19:35,920 --> 02:19:39,239 the whole point is that it's a metal level argument. You claim you're using 1605 02:19:39,319 --> 02:19:43,600 logic at the metal level. Prove it again. We already have proven that. 1606 02:19:43,799 --> 02:19:46,799 Go watch the live stream, go read his paper, aspiring fast boy. 1607 02:19:46,879 --> 02:19:52,000 Five dollars you should unblock redeem Zoomer. I'll pass on that. He 1608 02:19:52,079 --> 02:19:54,879 says he's reading the Church Fathers and he's ready for a part too. Well, 1609 02:19:54,159 --> 02:19:56,920 I didn't say I was ready for a part two, but I guess 1610 02:19:56,959 --> 02:20:01,559 it's good that he's reading. Well. Him quote reading the Church Fathers probably 1611 02:20:01,600 --> 02:20:05,399 means he's just quote minding them for whatever he thinks looks Protestant, which is 1612 02:20:05,600 --> 02:20:07,840 natural. I did the exact same thing. At his age, Noah m. 1613 02:20:07,959 --> 02:20:13,280 Five dollars. I dabbled in Romanism before becoming Orthodox. I enjoyed the 1614 02:20:13,399 --> 02:20:18,799 Rosary. Can I venerate the Theotokos by the Rosary? I think that the 1615 02:20:18,879 --> 02:20:24,399 problem isn't any of the phrases of the Rosary or the theology necessarily the Rosary. 1616 02:20:24,440 --> 02:20:30,879 The problem is that the Rosary typically went along with this idea of imaginative 1617 02:20:30,959 --> 02:20:33,799 prayer, and imaginative prayer is not part of Orthodoxy. So I would say 1618 02:20:35,920 --> 02:20:39,879 that you should ideally speak about that to your spiritual father. But we don't 1619 02:20:39,959 --> 02:20:46,280 need these Roman Catholic devotions. We don't need to import them into Orthodoxy because 1620 02:20:46,559 --> 02:20:50,559 it sends a message that, oh, well, we're all basically the same, 1621 02:20:50,440 --> 02:20:56,399 We're not. Sacred Heart is a violation of the teachings of Ephesus, 1622 02:20:56,959 --> 02:21:01,639 So you should not have the Sacred Heart worship in an Orthodox church. It 1623 02:21:01,760 --> 02:21:07,319 clearly violates Ephesis, which says that you can't give reverence to parts of Christ. 1624 02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:11,239 You have to revere the whole Christ as the whole Christ. So the 1625 02:21:13,440 --> 02:21:16,600 motivation of many of the people, not you, Noah, but many of 1626 02:21:16,639 --> 02:21:20,159 the people who want to do these things is not always good motivation. Some 1627 02:21:20,319 --> 02:21:24,959 people's motivation is a Cumanism. They want to give the impression that if we 1628 02:21:26,120 --> 02:21:28,600 and this is actually what Jesuits did. Jesuits, for example, would paint 1629 02:21:28,760 --> 02:21:35,559 and have painted Heterodox icons to try to convert Orthodox people to Unionism or Roman 1630 02:21:35,600 --> 02:21:41,799 Catholicism. And so it's no different in terms of the motivation of bringing in 1631 02:21:41,879 --> 02:21:45,760 all these Western Latin devotions and listen, I was a Roman Catholic. We 1632 02:21:45,799 --> 02:21:50,079 don't need that stuff. We don't need sitting there meditating and imagining myself in 1633 02:21:50,159 --> 02:21:56,479 the pains of hell like lunatic Alphonsi's Laguori says, we don't want any of 1634 02:21:56,559 --> 02:22:01,799 this stuff. We don't do imaginative prayer. So no, that's the reason 1635 02:22:01,879 --> 02:22:05,799 why it's not. We don't want you, you know, thinking about the 1636 02:22:05,879 --> 02:22:09,680 the tokos or whatever, any last words and up by that be sure in 1637 02:22:09,719 --> 02:22:13,600 a subscribe to all of my outlets, head on over to chalk dot com. 1638 02:22:13,639 --> 02:22:16,159 He's promo co j fifty to get fifty percent off all those great products 1639 02:22:16,200 --> 02:22:20,479 like chalk dot com. And uh, you get fifty percent off things like 1640 02:22:20,559 --> 02:22:24,920 the Irish Moss, fifty percent off things like seven Wonders, fifty percent off 1641 02:22:24,000 --> 02:22:28,360 the excellent ton Catiale proven to boost test saus room, and we definitely know 1642 02:22:28,479 --> 02:22:33,840 these church boys need the boost their test oserone. I'll tell you what otherwise 1643 02:22:33,879 --> 02:22:37,000 I will see you guys very soon. Uh get some of that Lore Coffee. 1644 02:22:37,040 --> 02:22:39,840 The link is in the show description. Lore Coffee is our fellow Orthodox 1645 02:22:39,920 --> 02:22:46,399 Coffee Bros. And you're also supporting uh FDA as well by buying that Lore 1646 02:22:46,479 --> 02:22:50,000 Coffee. Subscribe to me on Rockfin and get the books signed