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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. This is your host,

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Alejandro Rojas. We have with us
Martin Goofball, willis my usual UFO News

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guest. And then, of course
we've got since this is our special twenty

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eighteen year review, we have our
good old buddy doctor Lee, pizza Boy

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Spiegel. I wondered if you were
going to give me another name like Goofball,

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but pizza boy, that's good,
it's good. I'm jealously just because

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they're both goofballs and it was hard
to wrangle them so we could start to

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show and uh, and of course
Lee and I have this running joke about

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being doctors and ordering pizzas from each
other, and the listeners might remember,

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like I think it was a UK
tabloid that referred to me as doctor Rojas,

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and that's why I had And then
somebody referenced you as a doctor too

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rightly. I don't know. I
don't know if they had, they didn't

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do it to my face. I
think it was even Coast to coast or

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something. And that's why we started
that. And you know, that's kind

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of that's kind of an ongoing joke
that I have with Stan Friedman every single

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time I call stand just to have
a conversation, to say hello, and

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he picks up the phone. I
go, ah, doctor Friedman, and

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he says, no, I'm not
a doctor. Don't have to keep telling

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you that a lot of people made
that mistake. Yeah, he's very good

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at pointing that out. He's not
a doctor, yeah, which is important

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because unfortunately some people in this field
have not been quick to point that out,

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and they've led people to believe the
wrong thing true. Yeah, and

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he likes to keep everything factual.
So I understand why he wants to stay

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very very credible and okay, but
to me, he's a doctor. So

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what do you want honorary doctorate from? At least Beagle University? That's right.

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So before we get into our year
in review, let's talk some UFO

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news and you've got something for us, right, mister Willis. Yeah,

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Well it's kind of this is space
news more than UFO news, but interesting

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anyway. So China, China is
Chungi four spacecraft made the first ever soft

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landing on the far side of the
Moon in a mission of investigating the history

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of the Solar System and paving the
way for a future exploration by the way.

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Some people call it the dark side
of the Moon, but it is

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indeed not. It just depends on
it's a relation to orbiting the Earth and

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facing the Sun and all that.
It does get sunlight, and a lot

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of people are unaware of that just
because you know, the Moon is fixated

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and because of the gravity and the
more metals or whatever on one side of

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it, so we only see one
part of it. Anyway, this is

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exploring the other part and landed in
this huge crater. It's actually part of

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a larger creator. I know the
one that landed is one hundred and eighty

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six kilometers wide. I'm not sure. I think it's something like twenty five

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hundred kilometers. Why the whole the
major crater, it's the largest one actually

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known in the Solar system. So
they're actually hoping that they can and it's

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called the fun Carmen Crater, and
they're hoping that they can actually find something

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where this impact is that may actually
lead to the development of the Moon itself.

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It's really interesting, and that's something
that just landed. It took off

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I think in December eighth or something
like that, and orbited for all that,

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and it just landed today. And
I think they're even going to try

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to grow some seeds or something like
that on the Moon, but they don't

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share as much information in its way. In fact, on this side,

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we didn't even know exactly when it
was going to land. But it's funny

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because when I say dark side of
the Moon, which many of the stories

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do, because it's kind of just
a phrase we use, even though,

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like you pointed out, it's not
technically dark. It does get light,

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which just to tech more accurately,
the far side of the moon, the

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side that we don't see. You
got another one, Well, I was

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up just this fascinating image that just
came forward of the Well, the number

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of it is twenty fourteen m U
sixty nine aka Ultima Thule, and it

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was taken by NASA's New Horizon spacecraft
on its approach. Now, this was

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four billion miles away and from Earth
actually, and the New Horizon was about

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fifty thousand kilometers away from the object
when it took this picture. But it

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looks like a snowman. And I
don't know if everyone's looked into this,

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but it really is quite an amazing
it's a binary shape. It was probably

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two objects that kind of slowly came
together because there's no evidence of any type

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of collision with the two objects,
and so they're just kind of formed together

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at one time. And this may
have happened, you know, billion billions

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of years ago. They're not really
sure. It's about fourteen kilometers across,

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something nineteen kilometers wide. How far
away is the way round? It's a

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I believe it's about four billion miles
from the earth. So it's actually the

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further object that we've actually been able
to see. Pretty amazing. That is

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amazing. Are you do? You
know for sure you have the pronunciations right

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of the Chinese lander and the well, well, the Chunga, Yes,

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I did. I was very careful
because that is the Chinese goddess. So

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I went, you know, check
that out to make sure that was pronounced

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correctly. As far as this fool
or I may I I guess the bunker

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of pronouncing some of these things.
The bike rack company of the same name

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goes by Tully, So that's what
I dent to say. And I don't

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know, I'm just curious if you
looked into it so I can know how

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to say these things. And how
do you say the lander again? That's

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chunga chun k four, chunga four. Oh cool, because I didn't know

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that one, and I was,
I know, destroying it when I've mentioned

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it in the past. I'm sure
I made some really stupid sounding noises.

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Well chung of three. So yeah, it's uh. And then they're actually

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going to be launching one more in
twenty nineteen, coming up another one fairly

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soon actually in March, I believe. M hmm. Well, we'll wrap

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up the news, but I think
that it's an important thing. These stories

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are important that you bring up,
because that's one thing about twenty eighteen is

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for space exploration, it's been extraordinary. There's been so many changes. We're

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really close to actual civilian space travel. And of course I did a story

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on Den of Geek on that we've
talked about it in the past, and

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oh, I've got to get a
YouTube video up on that. But with

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the Chinese and everybody ramping up going
to the Moon, it's been really an

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extraordinary year for space. And what
do you think, Lee, do you

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have any comments on that? Well, I think you're right, and I

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by luck. I was in California
a couple of months ago working on this

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documentary as you know. And I
was there on the night that I was

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at, SpaceX launched a satellite from
Vandenberg Air Force BACE, and people came

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into the studio where I was working
and they said, you got to come

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outside. There's a UFO right in
the sky above us. And I went

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outside with my camera and this amazing
site in the sky. It almost looked

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like a big comment with a trail
coming back from it. And I didn't

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know what it was, and I
had forgotten the news items that SpaceX had

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launched this new satellite, and I
said, well, whatever it is,

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for the moment, it's the UFO, but I'll bet it'll be on the

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news tonight, and of course it
was, and I took some pictures of

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it, and they said on the
news. And I went to the SpaceX

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site later and saw the actual replay
of the launch and at the exact moment

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where my camera recorded this thing in
the sky, that's when the first stage

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of the rocket was falling back to
Earth before it was going to come back

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for that perfect landing that they had
on the news later that night. So

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yeah, it is amazing that there's
all this entrepreneurial stuff going on as far

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as the Space Race. I mean, it's not just the Americans versus the

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Soviet Union like it was in the
sixties. This is a whole different ballgame

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now of what the Space Race is
all about. So, Lee, people

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might not realize you've been kind of
on a secret project lately, working with

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James Fox, who has created I
believe, you know, some of the

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best UFO documentaries out there on this
latest documentary. So that's pretty exciting.

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Is that getting pretty close to finish? Yeah, we're getting closer and closer.

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James has actually been working on this
for four or five years. I've

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been on the project for the last
year and a half, and for me,

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it's been a long year and a
half. I mean, I can't

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believe that it was like June of
twenty seventeen when my career at the Huffington

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Post came to an end so that
I could really start working on this project

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with James, And now here we
are, like a year and a half

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later, and where did the time
go? We have we have gathered some

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incredible interview for from people that will
take the breath away, we hope of

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the audience when they finally get a
chance to see this. Where We've got

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a few more segments that still need
to be produced, and we're looking at

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literally an early spring readiness for the
public. And I know there are a

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lot of stuff that's coming up on
TV about UFOs that are about to hit

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as well, So the timing is
pretty good for us in the project.

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Pretty exciting. And I almost forgot
about this. I've got a TV project

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that's going to air on the Tent
on the CW, something I helped produce

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also, and I'm in a bit
of it. Ryan Sprague is one of

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the hosts, but that is in
relation to the Roswell program and they just

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like announced that today that they're going
to be airing it on the tenth and

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then it'll be online and I'll be
able to show people. So I almost

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forgot about that. Yeah, they've
been doing a lot of promos for that

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show on TV. I've noticed.
Yeah, So twenty eighteen was not only

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an important year for space in general, the space industry and space exploration,

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but I feel it was probably the
most important year ever and we'll get into

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why in the show. For UFOs
as well, it's been an extraordinary year.

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So what we'll do is we'll kind
of go one at a time what

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we think is a great and let's
start off with what we think is the

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biggest story, and then we'll keep
going because it's hard for me to even

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determine which one I think is the
biggest out of out of the group that

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I have here, but we'll keep
going around, and so we'll let Leg

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go first, since you are the
guest, and to be honest, out

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of mind, all of them are
news related to the Pentagon program except for

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one. So well, you know, it's funny because for me, the

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year started out and then continued with
what was, of course the biggest UFO

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story of twenty seventeen, the whole
revelation by the New York Times at the

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Pentagon had been secretly studying UFOs for
several years, and that story lingered throughout

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twenty eighteen, and many of us
are still waiting for more film evidence to

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be released by the government. So
it hasn't gone away like so many other

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stories have. This thing is right
there, still right up there near the

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top for me. So that's your
number one story. Well, no,

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it's not the number one story,
although the number one story maybe For me,

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it's funny because I started on my
list, and this was I just

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numbered this as number one. But
then when I got all the way out

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of the end, I came up
with, of course, as other fascinating

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offshoot of that twenty seventeen New York
Times piece about the Pentagon UFO studies,

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what's still floating around is the idea
that there's a lot of competition out there

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now among UFO researchers and scientists over
the analysis of alleged fragments or pieces from

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UFOs. This is a very big
story, and even I recently had a

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unique opportunity to see and to hold
some reportedly real UFO material that's being analyzed

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now by scientists. And they're not
yet ready to go public with their amazing

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findings, but they will, and
I can say that I can say that

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with really total certainty because I was
there in their laboratory and on that particular

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note, I'll kind of leave it
at more to come, but it's going

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to be amazing when they do release
their their findings, and they're going to

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release it to everybody. They're not
going to hold back, they're not going

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to ask for money. They're going
to release it to science and say here's

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what we've come up with we can
conclude very definitely that some of these fragments

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were not naturally formed and that they
were manufactured by someone. And we'd sure

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would like to know who did the
manufacturing and for what purpose. So that's

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going to be amazing when that finally
happens. Now, is this analysis related

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at all or being looked at by
To the Star's Academy? So Tom Delong's

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group and a group that says they're
doing all this analysis. No, these

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are separate individuals who have nothing to
do with Tom DeLong or to the Stars.

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And basically I'm a witness to the
fact that they can see without giving

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it away too much, they will
be able to conclude that some of these

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fragments are not from Earth because it
has nothing to do with Bigelow. No,

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nothing to do no, not even
with Robert Bigelow. So that's pretty

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cool. So and I want to
summarize just so people know what we're talking

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about. Yeah, of course,
there's to the Stars Academy, which was

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started essentially by Tom DeLong, which
includes a lot of these retired defense intelligence

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people, including Louise Elisondo who ran
this program that was revealed in this New

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York Times article in December, and
in that article, Louise said that they

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had some sort of material that was
stored by Robert Bigelow, who ruins Bigelow

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Aerospace, and that this was anomalist
material that they were going to look into.

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And then as time went on,
some of the stories related to this

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that we came out with this year
is that that they were forming a partnership

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with EarthTech, this other company where
they're going to be looking at and analyzing

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materials that may be anomalous. There
was even hints that maybe they had found

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something anomalous. Of course, we
had Chris Cogswell on the show, and

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he's got a bit of frustration because
he feels that, you know, to

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make a statement like that is really
bold, and there are a number of

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steps you have to complete. In
his eyes, you have to prove that

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it's manufactured, that it's the manufacturing
process, is technology that we could not

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have done, that it's beyond our
capability, and of course that the material

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is not from this planet. So
he feels that that's too high of a

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bar that anybody could meet. And
we've kind of have Elizondo more recently walking

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back his comments a little bit saying
that they don't know that they found anything

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yet and that they're being careful to
not put just like you said, the

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cart before the horse, that they're
doing their due diligence to make sure they

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have some solid evidence before they come
out with it. So that's extraordinary to

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hear that. First of all,
you know, to the Stars is doing

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this work and potentially might have something, and now you have another lead on

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another source. Well, you know, I've always historically, for myself,

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I've always been dubious about claims that
people have fragments or pieces of UFOs that

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either had crashed or exploded, but
in fact, these kinds of things did

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happen. One famous case that comes
to mind is I believe it was nineteen

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fifty seven over uber Tuba, Brazil, a seaside community. Something came streaking

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out of the sky and it exploded
and it showered the water, the community,

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the land. I mean, pieces
of it were all over the place,

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so before even the authorities could get
there, people were snatching stuff up,

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you know, So it's not impossible
that pieces are legitimately from something that's

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unexplainable. And this is just one
case that comes to mind, and I

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held and I looked at pieces from
this uber Tuba case. But that's not

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even the bigger part of the story. It's okay, fine, you've got

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fragments of something that you don't know
what the something was. How do you

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analyze it so that science really doesn't
know what to make of this? Well,

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you have to come up with new
technologies that can analyze this stuff.

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And that's exactly what these scientists that
I am now aware of have done.

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They have come up with brand new
technology. I've been there, I've seen

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it, I have photographed it.
It's incredible what they can do now.

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It took my breath away. So
Lee, can you give us any more

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details on this or this didn't actually
come from the from the Brazil crash,

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did it? Or can you tell
us all where it came from? Some

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of the pieces? I mean,
what they brought on this particular day to

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the laboratory was a huge collection of
pieces that supposedly came from UFOs from around

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the world, going back to the
nineteen forties, a lot of stuff.

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I was holding this stuff in my
hands in special containers, and that was

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just I kept saying to my co
producer James. I kept saying, please

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pinch me. I can't believe we're
witnessing this. This is just amazing.

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And these people who were doing this
research are being very private it now,

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and we're not letting the information out
at this point as to who they are,

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because at any point they could just
decide to say, no, we're

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done, we're not going any further
with this because we don't trust anybody.

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So I'm okay with that. And
I don't mean to tease you or to

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tease the audience, but at this
point, the tease is all that I

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can offer because it will come out
and nothing will be hidden because they want

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this information to come out, and
they want to share it with science,

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and they want to give it to
everybody who is a believer or total skeptic

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or debunker. They want people to
say, here, take this information that

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we've just created, Now come up
with your own analysis based on it,

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and let us know what you're You
know, is there going to be more

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information about this material in the documentary? Oh yes, wow, Yes,

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we've actually already filmed that segment.
Yes. So that's some big news right

250
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there. That's the biggest news of
twenty nineteen. When it comes to UFOs.

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Now, well, I'm hoping that
it will be because I think that

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anything to do with fragments, you
know, this this hearkens back to the

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story of Bob Lazare and you know
who claims that he actually worked on and

254
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went inside a flying saucer at Area
fifty one. This is this is kind

255
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of on that level, I think, because now we're talking about fragments that

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can be analyzed to prove they weren't
manufactured here. That's a big story.

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I think that is a big story. That's a really big deal, you

258
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know. And I'm not saying to
you or to the audience or anybody else,

259
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any scientists out there listening in.
I'm not saying take my word for

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it, don't believe anything I say. I'm just saying, be patient,

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be patient, because I believe eventually, if it wasn't these people that I've

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that I've witnessed this from, if
it wasn't them, it would be someone

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else who I believe will eventually come
out with this kind of proof. Well,

264
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I hope so the bar is so
high that I'm not I'm still very

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skeptical. I hope so, And
I know, but I do want to

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say to the audience who may not
be as familiar with your work. You

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know, Lee wrote for the Huffington
Post for many years and AOL and many

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news organizations, and there's many conversations
that we've had where credibility is really important

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and that you know, people did
not meet that high bar that you even

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needed as a journalist. So just
how significant it is for you to be

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saying this right now to me is
very important. It means that it's a

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higher level of credibility. It's more
than we've heard really from to the stars.

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So that's that's really interesting. Well, I appreciate that. And,

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like I say, the experience that
I had going to this place and I

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won't even say where it was,
it was quite obvious that there's a lot

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of money behind this research, totally
funded. Yeah, just to look at

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the equipment that they're using to do
the analysis is just mind blowing. That's

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all. We're out of time for
this first segment, so we're gonna have

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to go to break and then we'll
change the subject here to get back onto

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the topic for twenty eighteen. But
no doubt we will be revisiting this and

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mister Lee Spiegel's claims. Most likely
we'll need to wait till the documentary comes

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out, so hopefully that won't be
too long. But we've got to go

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to break now, and then we'll
be back to talk more about some of

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the top stories of twenty eighteen.
For those of you listening to the podcast,

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you'll just hear a short musical interlude. For the rest of you,

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you'll hear a commercial. But we'll
be right back with Lee Spiegel and Martin

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Willis tucking' Year in Review for twenty
eighteen. We'll be right now. Welcome

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00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.680
back to Open Mind UFO Radio.
I'm your host, Alejandro Rojas, and

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I know we are just talking about
an extremely interesting topic, but we got

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to move on because I think we
have a lot of really interesting stuff to

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talk about. So we're talking about
the year in review in twenty eighteen,

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and now it is your turn,
mister Willis, to tell us what is

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your top story for that. I
actually agree with what Lee just said about.

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I think the interesting story of twenty
eighteen is that UFOs have been taken

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more seriously. There's the year shows
basically the after effects of you know,

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the December sixteenth, twenty seventeen New
York Times article, you know, in

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the news media for the most part, because you know, there's no ridicule,

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it seems to kind of have vanished
for the like I said, for

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the most part, you really don't
hear, you know, the X Files

300
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intro music as often as you used
to whenever they're talking about UFOs. And

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that article actually, again, as
lisaid, it spawned over one hundred and

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00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:30.279
thirty news shows in particular that started
in December, and they kept trickling on

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into twenty eighteen and also starting basically
at the end of January, I mean

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at the end of December and into
January of this year, the former US

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Navy pilot David Fraverer came forward and
he did several interviews, and I think

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that's a big deal because you know, he is a US retired US Navy

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pilot and he was actually talking about
this publicly, and you know, he

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00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:04.039
claims that he was at the control
of an FA eighteen F fighter and flying

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00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:08.160
off of San Diego. This was
back in two thousand and four, and

310
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and he intercepted an object that looked
like the forty foot long tic Tac candy.

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He talked about that it accelerated rapidly
and disappeared, and a whole bunch

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of other details. And again this
is a former US Navy pilot talking about

313
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:32.000
this freely on the news. You
know, many interviews also, of course,

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Lewis Alizondo, who ran a TIP
and from two thousand and seven to

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twenty twelve, he spoke out a
lot about this. Last year, I

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00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.519
went to a move On convention when
he was there, I got to meet

317
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him and talk to him. He's
a great guy, and I think one

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of the key things that he said
and was most notable is, and I'm

319
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quoting here, my personal belief is
that there is very compelling evidence that we

320
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may not be a lot. And
that was from a CNN interview and that

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just kind of circulated a lot.
I mean, that was again a big

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deal, and more recently and at
George Knapp interview he said there is much

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more to come in twenty nineteen,
so I'm pretty excited about that. I

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also wanted to say that a seasoned
reporter, Headley Burrell. I don't know

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if you remember him or Lee,
you may know who that is from.

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I think he was in the Washington
Post for years, many years ago,

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and he wrote a very interesting article
in the Harold Tribune in on June tenth

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of this year, and the title
of that was in this time of tension

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and anxiety, UFOs are back in
the news. And he goes on to

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say, long ago, as a
young reporter, I was well aware of

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UFOs out of curiosity. I read
mainstream media pieces as well as tabloid tales.

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What repeatedly struck me was, as
much as else in life, we

333
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were reluctant to simply accept that we
didn't immediately know the answer to the mystery

334
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:06.400
of the moment. In any event, I would not have imagined that some

335
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:11.759
six decades later, UFO stories would
still be around with heavily credentialed experts weighing

336
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:18.720
in. And he goes on to
say that the new spin on it is

337
00:29:18.759 --> 00:29:25.079
that it's serious this time, and
no matter where you know it goes,

338
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:33.720
it's definitely a serious subject at this
time, all due to people with with

339
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:37.599
high credentials taking the subject seriously.
That's the difference between then and now.

340
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.039
Yeah, there was a story in
the Washington Post that the headline was,

341
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:48.559
you know, UFOs are now serious, serious topic because of a rock star

342
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:52.359
Tomm DeLong and that was a great
article. Oh yeah, But I think

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00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:59.240
what was important was that headline that
UFOs are taken seriously now. So I

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want to get to my first one, because the reason why I think we

345
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:07.720
can't talk about a tip just too
broadly is because we'll lose all of the

346
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:14.279
significant events that happened inside of the
year related to this. So Lee brought

347
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.960
up one you know this material.
Then he dropped a bomb on us that

348
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he has looked at some material and
has heard from some scientists that they think

349
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.480
it's anomalous. You know, you've
brought the great point that to that.

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Overall, this has all brought made
the topic more serious. But one thing,

351
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:37.599
one piece of news I guess that
I would put on top of all

352
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of these this year came in May, and most of these are George n

353
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Apps stories. George Napps breaking all
the latest greatest news. And that was

354
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:56.160
his story that was called documents proved
secret study based in Nevada. And I

355
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.000
kind of blame him and I should
joke around with him and talk to him

356
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.759
about this that he kind of buried
the lead because the leads were not that

357
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:10.839
these documents came out. The big
stories were twofold was that a TIP was

358
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:17.000
not the organization, the group that
Luise Alisondo worked with was not the organization

359
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:22.839
that got that twenty million dollars that
instead, it was a different organization called

360
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the Advanced Aerospace Weapons System Application Program, which the acronym is AAWSAP, so

361
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we've been calling it as APP.
They're the ones who got the money,

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and not only that, when they
got the money, it was in order

363
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:48.119
to investigate Skinwalker Ranch on top of
that. And this is what's crazy about

364
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:55.279
it is that a senior manager of
Bigelow Aerospace and Bigelow for people who may

365
00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:59.880
know, in the nineties is when
Bigelow started investigating the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah,

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00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.960
which lots of paranormal activity was supposedly
happening. It had it kind of

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stopped around two thousand and so eventually
they let George Knapp and Colin Kellerhart that

368
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:16.079
leads scientists write this book in two
thousand and five that inspired some people to

369
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:21.240
come forward, or at least an
individual from the DIA to come look at

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Skinwalker Ranch. This person had their
own paranormal experience, went back to Washington

371
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.960
and spoke to Harry Reid and said
Hey, I know you know about this

372
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.759
stuff. We need to study this
stuff. The government needs to study this

373
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.759
paranormal activity. And that's what it
was, not just UFOs, but paranormal

374
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:42.720
activity, and so that's what got
the funding. And in fact, this

375
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:51.319
Bigelow senior manager said that they were
studying more than UFOs, but quote a

376
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:59.519
whole panopoly of diverse activity that included
bizarre creatures, poltergeist activity, invisible entities

377
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.599
orbs of lights, animal and human
injuries, and much more. It went

378
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:12.119
on to say that whatever this is
is deceptive and is fooling humanity and jacking

379
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:15.880
with us. And I mean,
holy crap, it wasn't UFOs they spent

380
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:22.400
that twenty two million dollars on.
It was a whole gamut of paranormal research.

381
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:28.000
Amazing, isn't that wild? I
don't think that the public has completely

382
00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:31.160
digested that. Then Luckily, you
know, soon after that, Jeremy Corbel

383
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:37.039
came out with his documentary on Skinwalker
Ranch that brought some more visibility to it,

384
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:42.839
with some great reporting and footage from
George Knapp, who I'm just you

385
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.559
know, I think we're all a
huge fan of To me, I think

386
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.519
that was probably the news that has
been hardest to digest that hasn't been fully

387
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:57.240
digested yet and probably the biggest OMG, WTF moment out of all of this.

388
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:04.519
Yes, I agree, And the
reason I agree with you about this

389
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:08.880
is because without without giving more of
the details away yet, because I'm still

390
00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:17.119
involved with the documentary. But several
months ago you mentioned Harry Reid, who

391
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:22.039
was once the most powerful man in
the Senate as the the Senate Majority Leader.

392
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:30.760
In a private meeting with Harry Reid, James Fox and I learned from

393
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:37.440
Harry Reid about more about Skinwalker Ranch
than has come out yet, and that

394
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:44.400
his passion for wanting science to study
this and in fact, not only is

395
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:49.000
he interested in the Skinwalker Ranch and
all the paranormal goings on there, but

396
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:54.840
he even hinted that Skinwalker Ranch is
only one of many places like that around

397
00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:02.000
the world, and he thinks that
this stuff has to studied scientifically. People

398
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:07.079
can't just keep burying their heads in
the sand over the stuff. Again,

399
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:13.119
this was one of those encounters that
I had last year in which I kept

400
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.000
saying to James, pinch me,
I can't believe we're talking to Harry Reid

401
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:19.960
about this stuff. It's like are
you kidding? Well, that's it,

402
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.039
you know. That reminds me of
another part of this story, because his

403
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:27.079
story was so rich and it was
so much more than the headline kind of

404
00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:31.480
led, which was that a major
faction And Luisa Lessandro came out and wrote

405
00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:37.559
about this more afterwards, and George
and Nepe even referred to Nick Redfern,

406
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:43.840
who I interviewed on this a bit
more. But a major faction that opposed

407
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:52.159
and was very influential on closing down
this whole investigation was this religious faction within

408
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:58.400
the government who feels that it's related
to Satan and so we can't look into

409
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.599
it. And under says, even
these people are there, people are respect

410
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:05.280
They just have a different point of
view and we have to respect their point

411
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.679
of view. He just said,
I just disagree with it. And so

412
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:13.440
when it did close down, that's
when a tips started, That's when Louise

413
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:16.559
Alessandro's kind of program took over.
But that's why he said he really kept

414
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.480
under the radar because he didn't want
to grab the attention of this faction.

415
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.239
Yeah, I agree, I agree. There's there are all other factions out

416
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:30.639
there too, not just religious that
there's so much of this power that's that's

417
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:36.920
divided up around the world, Like
who's really in control all this stuff that

418
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:42.039
we're talking about, who's really in
control of the information that really does or

419
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.679
does not come out to the public. Who makes these decisions for what we're

420
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.960
told and what we're not told.
That's a big question that I always have,

421
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:55.039
right, right, and are they
compartmentalized or what is it? And

422
00:36:55.239 --> 00:37:00.800
you know, the Alejandra one thing
on this. I can understand UFOs the

423
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:07.480
study and looking into UFOs because of
the aviation safety and security in general,

424
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:16.679
but why the other paranormal would Here's
why. And Nick Redfernd actually was very

425
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:23.159
insightful in this in that they want
to with the other paranormal understand the science.

426
00:37:23.239 --> 00:37:28.239
If you can understand the science,
for instance, h if there are

427
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:32.920
portals that these creatures can create and
go through, how do they do that?

428
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:36.760
And if the military can do that, you know, would we be

429
00:37:36.840 --> 00:37:39.960
able to just instead of having to
fly, you know, a top secret

430
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.320
helicopter into Ben Lawden's encampment, could
we have just opened up a portal and

431
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:51.440
walked through that and then grabbed him
and left. So trying to understand those

432
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:53.719
technologies, which was extraordinay, And
what Nick Redford said is some of these

433
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.880
guys on the inside they thought the
technology was related to Satan, but they

434
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:04.760
wanted to learn how Satan could do
these things so we could do them.

435
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:09.599
So weird. Yeah, there's so
much going on around us that we just

436
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:16.079
don't know. And some of us, the three of us, are in

437
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:22.920
a position to a degree to have
contacts out there who can give us little

438
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:28.440
pieces of the puzzle so that we
can then share it with the public through

439
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:32.119
the things that we do. And
I'm very honored to be part of that

440
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:37.119
that at least I feel like someone
will tell us something, or you Alejandro,

441
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.000
or you Martin on your shows that
you know, we want this information

442
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.480
to get out, little by little, piece by piece. I'm glad.

443
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.639
I'm glad we can help in some
way to do that. Yep. So

444
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.199
more stories. So these stories we're
talking about in twenty eighteen did that certainly?

445
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:57.000
So, Lee, it's your turn. What's your second story? I

446
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.599
found a really interesting story. I
don't know if either of you have heard

447
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:06.880
this. This was from July twenty
six, twenty eighteen. A Washington,

448
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:15.079
DC news radio station called WTP.
They printed a report that included a video

449
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:22.280
that spotlighted a man who's a retired
Air Force Colonel David Shay. Have either

450
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.639
you heard about this guy? You
know about David Shaye. He's like ninety

451
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:30.519
years old or something, yet he's
like eighty or so. Yes. From

452
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:37.079
nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy one, he was the Air Force UFO spokesperson

453
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:42.159
at the Pentagon. In fact,
he was the man who wrote the nineteen

454
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:49.480
sixty nine news release that announced the
end of Project Blue Book, which for

455
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:54.079
the audience for all intents and purposes, his news release basically said, the

456
00:39:54.159 --> 00:40:00.159
United States government washed its hands completely
of all things related to UFOs. We

457
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.519
now know, you know, going
back to the twenty seventeen New York times

458
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:08.280
pace, their hands weren't completely washed
on this subject. And in this WTP

459
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:13.239
report, Colonel she said, and
this is a quote, he said,

460
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:17.559
the UFOs never seemed to go away. I love that sentence. Now.

461
00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:23.719
He did. His whole master's degree
thesis was about how the Air Force handled

462
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.480
UFO reports. And this is what
he wrote in his thesis. He said,

463
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:34.159
the story of the UFOs and the
Air Force is essentially it's a tale

464
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:39.599
of a credibility gap that's wider than
the Grand Canyon. During its more than

465
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:45.840
twenty year history of investigating flying saucers, the Air Force has been accused of

466
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:55.159
almost every conceivable sin and had been
guilty of most end quote. What was

467
00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:01.880
this guy's name? His name is
Colonel baby Shay. Yeah. Yeah,

468
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:07.159
And he wrote that sixty nine news
release ending Project blue Book. Pretty interesting

469
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:10.159
stuff and you can you can you
can find you can go online. You

470
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:15.119
can see the interview with him talking
about his beliefs. He doesn't believe that

471
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:21.360
there ever was enough evidence to really
substantiate possible visitations from other planets, but

472
00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:25.199
he said it's the way that data
is presented, and it hasn't been presented

473
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:34.360
carefully enough by anybody, even even
our mutual friend Johnny Alexander has always said

474
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:40.920
people are not asking the right questions
about UFOs in order to get answers.

475
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:45.000
All. It's all in the way
it's reported. Wow. So I'll put

476
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.960
links to these stories on open mind
and for YouTube in the show notes,

477
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:53.000
because this was one I don't think
I heard of. I think I missed

478
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:58.639
this one. So this is extraordinary. Yeah, it's fascinating to see him

479
00:41:58.679 --> 00:42:04.760
from just this past July talking on
camera very openly and freely. In fact,

480
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.840
one of the things he holds in
the interview is it says on the

481
00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:14.519
front Project blue Book, and it's
a gigantic book. He's thumbing through the

482
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:20.480
pages of Project blue Book and just
talking about it's really really fascinating to just

483
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:22.599
look at this guy because I had
never heard of him before, and he

484
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:28.079
obviously I mean, my hat's off
to the people at WTP who found him

485
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:30.840
and got him to talk. I
think it's really interesting. Yeah, cool,

486
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:34.639
what a great story. That's a
really good one. So we'll put

487
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.679
that in there. All right,
good find mister Spiego, all right,

488
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:42.119
your turn. Well that was great, Yeah, that was really great.

489
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:50.840
So I think it was a big
year in aviation and aviation in UFOs.

490
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.000
So I'd like to talk a bit
about that in twenty eighteen and one that

491
00:42:55.119 --> 00:43:01.440
seemed to happen. That happened on
November ninth, eighteen and Ireland seemed to

492
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:07.440
make most the most news, you
know. And it's important to note that

493
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:13.599
the details are similar in some respects
to the sightings over Oregon, which that

494
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:20.239
actually happened in late twenty seventeen,
but F fifteen fighters were scrambled in that

495
00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:25.199
incident. One also happened in Arizona
with lear Jet and an airbus on February

496
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:32.280
twenty fourth, twenty eighteen, and
one in New York also on May twenty

497
00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:38.639
six of this year, and that
was with a Piper Saratoga. And so

498
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:42.639
this is actually, you know,
going to the war zone. I know

499
00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:50.320
you've interviewed Tyler Rogaway. He does
these stories also with Joseph Trevithick. I

500
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:52.920
don't know exactly how to pronounce his
last name. Well. The Irish incident

501
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:59.639
happened in the pre dawn hours of
November ninth of this year, and it

502
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:05.239
was about forty five minutes before sunrise
and at least three different airliners flying over

503
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:12.639
the coast of southwestern Ireland reports seeing
multiple unidentified objects flying near them at incredible

504
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:17.599
speeds. Following the reports from a
small number of aircraft on Friday on November

505
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:24.159
ninth of unusual air activity, the
IAA, which is the Irish Aviation Authority,

506
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:30.440
has filed a report. They said
this report will be investigated under the

507
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:38.519
normal and confidential investigation process and there
was also a publicly available audio of the

508
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:45.280
conversation between the passengers of the planes
passenger, I'm sorry, the passenger planes

509
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:52.039
and Shannon Flight Information Region air traffic
controllers, they offer more detail of what

510
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.880
happened, and so basically he goes
back and forth. There is nothing showing

511
00:44:55.920 --> 00:45:04.199
on either primary or secondary radar,
and then they won pilot I think he

512
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:06.920
comes on and says, well,
I'm glad I'm not the only one that

513
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:09.679
saw this or I'm paraphrasing here,
Oh glad, it wasn't just me.

514
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:17.280
He chimed in. And so there
was a third individual. It's unclear that

515
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:23.880
I think they were on board as
Speedbird ninety four or something like that,

516
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:30.159
and they considered it could be astronomical
and it looked like it was speeding at

517
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:35.599
something like mock two two times a
speed of sound, something like that.

518
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.960
And so when they reach out to
authorities for a comment and more information regarding

519
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:46.519
this incident, they received the following
reply quote, the Defense Forces do not

520
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:52.960
disclose their operational procedures for operational security
reasons. This incident is a matter for

521
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:57.320
the Irish Aviation Authority and that's as
far as it went, as far as

522
00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:01.679
I know at this point. Yes, and you know, and can I

523
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:06.559
add one to that? What I
what I especially liked about this story is

524
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.519
anybody can go online and you can
find you can actually listen to the conversation

525
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:15.760
between the pilots and the control center. Mm hmm, and that's great.

526
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:22.719
Yeah. There were several stories like
that that Tyler Rogaway and the group over

527
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:28.559
at the war Zone on the Drive
had written about. And I did interview

528
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:32.840
him in April, and you know, he said he felt more empowered to

529
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:39.400
write about this topic because of the
Pentagon story in the New York Times from

530
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:45.920
December, and he went on to
say that he said everybody in aviation is

531
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:50.960
interested in UFOs, and he said
if there's anybody who tells you they're not,

532
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.320
they're lying. That's why he went
so far as to say that,

533
00:46:53.920 --> 00:47:00.559
Wow. Yeah, So there were
several stories he wrote about at the time.

534
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:02.599
I know one of his favorites,
and I think it is the best

535
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:07.840
case that he wrote about, is
this one over California in Oregon where he

536
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:13.599
was just astonished the amount of material
he was able to get from the government,

537
00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.760
from the FAA and from these flight
towers. But this one was caught

538
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:22.800
on radar, you know, traveling
these incredible speeds. Several pilots had seen

539
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:30.880
it this object that over the airport
and organ So that's another great case.

540
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:32.400
Yeah, we'll link to those,
But I agree with you. That was

541
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:40.280
one of my other notes. Are
these stories, these aviation stories, and

542
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:44.480
it seems like, and I'd like
to hear what you guys think, it's

543
00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:51.159
not that these stories all of a
sudden, these aircraft are having interactions with

544
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:53.719
UFOs. I think it's more of
a case that all of a sudden,

545
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:59.480
serious journalists who have at least more
access than the rest of us, like

546
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:04.960
Roca, who has its experience working
in the defense world, are able to

547
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:08.159
get this information that we've never been
able to get before. Like you said,

548
00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:12.559
Lee, like these audio files of
these pilots in the middle of these

549
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.840
encounters. Can I add something to
that? Yeah, and only got a

550
00:48:15.880 --> 00:48:20.719
minute. Oh okay, then let's
sew it after the break, because I

551
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.679
want to tell about this story that
Martin already started to talk about. But

552
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:29.039
it's a bigger story I think we
all than we even know about. Okay,

553
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.599
that's just great. Yeah, just
for the last second here, someone

554
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:38.119
had sent me a supposed video from
the cockpit that had taken a video,

555
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:44.000
but I just couldn't confirm it.
Ah. Yeah, I'm not aware of

556
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.760
any video out there, but certainly
any listeners who are aware of some video,

557
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.039
even if you're not sure if it's
real or not, send it our

558
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.519
way and we'll do our best to
see if we can verify that or not.

559
00:48:55.239 --> 00:48:59.400
But let's go ahead and take a
break. So we are here with

560
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:05.599
Martin will and Lee Spiegel talking about
the best stories related to UFOs in twenty

561
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:08.880
eighteen. An extraordinary year. I
mean, any one of these things we've

562
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:15.079
talked about would be a huge deal, but all in combined, and I

563
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.280
know on my list, I've got
some big whoppers here still, So we'll

564
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.800
talk about some of those when we
get back from the break. We'll be

565
00:49:22.920 --> 00:50:15.039
right back. Welcome back to Open
Mind UFO Radio. I am your host,

566
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:21.159
Alejandro Rojas. I'm here with Martin
Willlis of podcast UFO, Lee Spiegel

567
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:27.320
working on his secret UFO documentary with
James Fox and Lee you were talking about

568
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:29.960
you know, we were talking about
these aviation cases and you said he had

569
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.199
a good one you wanted to share
with us. Well, Martin brought this

570
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:37.440
one up as one of his favorites
from twenty eighteen, about when he said

571
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:42.519
May twenty six, over New York. And what I love about this case,

572
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:45.639
it was a pilot he was flying
over Huntington, New York. Coincidentally,

573
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.880
I was on the Long Island Expressway
today coming to my apartment in Queens

574
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:54.280
and I drove right past Huntington,
so I kind of knew about this sighting.

575
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.800
But on May twenty six, at
about one o'clock in the morning.

576
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:04.559
In the afternoon, pilot called Kennedy
Airport and reported seeing an unidentified object in

577
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.519
front of his plane at about six
thousand feet in altitude. And again,

578
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:12.599
what I love about these sightings,
you can go online and hear the conversation

579
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:16.920
between the pilot and someone at Kennedy
air Traffic Control. So the pilot said

580
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:21.320
he didn't know what the object was, and the controller suggested it was a

581
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.360
drone, but it didn't show up
on radar. When the pilot asked if

582
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:28.920
he could make a left turn and
then was given the okay, he then

583
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:34.639
reported that the object moved behind his
plane and disappeared into clouds. So then

584
00:51:34.679 --> 00:51:37.719
when he told the controller that the
object also had lights on it, he

585
00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:45.000
was given a special telephone number and
instructed to call it after he landed and

586
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:49.920
someone would be waiting for his call. When the pilot asked the controller,

587
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:52.559
and again you can hear this conversation
online. It's great. When the pilot

588
00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:57.599
asked the controller if he would get
into trouble for making this phone call,

589
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:00.800
he was assured that would not be
the case. Wow, Like I love

590
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:06.679
this case. Oh my god.
Wow. You know, I think the

591
00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:12.760
whole aviation thing, it's not so
much that the UFOs are buzzing around the

592
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:16.360
airplanes, but pilots are starting to
talk about it, and for some reason

593
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:22.280
we're able to go online and hear
these conversations like nobody's trying to hide this.

594
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:25.960
Yeah, I think it comes back
to what Martin was saying. It's

595
00:52:27.079 --> 00:52:32.719
just it really has changed. UFOs
are okay now they're not just complete,

596
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:37.280
you know, silliness. At least
less and less people are considering it.

597
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:44.480
That. Yeah, exting in that. In that article I was reading about

598
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:49.239
that, it said that the FAA
was investigating it, and I thought they'd

599
00:52:49.239 --> 00:52:53.599
never investigated anything like that. That's
what they say, they don't investigate things

600
00:52:53.639 --> 00:53:00.519
like that. However, I mean, we know that there happened times where

601
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:04.440
they have looked into incidents like this, but unfortunately have not been forthcoming with

602
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:09.000
you know, real information. Chicago
hair for instance, comes to mind.

603
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:14.239
They looked into that, Yeah,
but they weren't willing to really share it

604
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:20.039
much except for to debunk it.
What's your next one? Oh? My

605
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:22.960
next one? So this is related. My next one, of course is

606
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.480
still a tip related, but kind
of related to everything getting more serious.

607
00:53:28.519 --> 00:53:37.639
But this is the extraordinary amount of
attention the government is now taking looking into

608
00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:43.480
UFOs and a lot of people have
been frustrated with two of the stars and

609
00:53:43.480 --> 00:53:45.840
they've said, well, they keep
promising us, promising us information and we

610
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:50.880
don't get it, to which I
just like, you know, put palm

611
00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:53.880
to face because it's like, are
you kidding? I mean the materials that

612
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:58.440
we just talked about, that's something
new they've talked about, this whole link

613
00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:02.800
to Skinwalker. That's something new that
they have not had a lot of information.

614
00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:07.280
But at least lou Alizondo has not
been shy to address these things.

615
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:12.719
But as Lewis said, at least
two to some of us and me,

616
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:15.880
I guess a little bit behind the
scenes. But he's also said this more

617
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.519
recently that a big part of what
they're trying to do is, like he

618
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:23.360
said, grease the wheels within the
government so that the people who should be

619
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:31.000
releasing information are releasing information. This
really kind of started in May. I've

620
00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:36.079
got a story on this, and
it's kind of funny because the writer is

621
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:39.920
from Politico. His name is Brian
Bender, and he tweeted just recently that

622
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:45.639
he's become a darling of the UFO
community. And it's because he wrote an

623
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:50.599
article the same day that The New
York Times did. He came out with

624
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:55.719
an article about the a tip.
But then also he was covering this US

625
00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:02.519
House Science this space essentially conference that
was going on with a bunch of companies,

626
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:07.599
and they had this roundtable, these
interviews that Politico was doing, and

627
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:16.679
they were interviewing members of the House
Subcommittee on Space and some other people involved

628
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:22.880
with space policy making, and they
he asked about UFOs. He asked,

629
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:24.639
you know, is it more credible? Is it okay to talk about UFOs

630
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:30.559
now? And immediately the representative from
the House came up and said, yeah,

631
00:55:30.679 --> 00:55:34.599
this is really interesting stuff. I
even went to the head of the

632
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:37.599
subcommittee to say, hey, shouldn't
we look into this? And then one

633
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:43.480
of the other members who was there, he's a ranking member of the House

634
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:49.159
Subcommittee on Space, and the first
guy was a Republican Ami Beerra second guy,

635
00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:52.880
I mean a Democrat I'm sorry from
California who brought this up and was

636
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:55.360
really enthusiastic. The second guy was
a Republican who said, yeah, he

637
00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:59.840
thinks it's worthwhile. And then there
was another lady there who is part of

638
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:05.400
this committee on Science, Space and
Technology that helps advise the President, and

639
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:09.679
she said yes that she felt it
was also something worth looking into. Soon

640
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:15.239
after that, we had an article
from Nick Pope in The Guardian. Nick

641
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:17.039
Pope, of course, he worked
for the UK government, and he kind

642
00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:22.480
of broke down how the Defense Intelligence
Agency has been briefed and he linked to

643
00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:28.599
an article that proves that he talked
about these these subcommittees, you know,

644
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:37.239
actually briefing or debriefing some of the
witnesses that Alizondo had worked with on the

645
00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:42.480
House and the Senate side looking into
this. And then soon after that I

646
00:56:42.519 --> 00:56:45.800
did an interview with Chase Kletzky,
who's like the head of you know,

647
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:51.719
UFO investigations for mouf On and she
said she also had the opportunity to do

648
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:58.440
a five minute presentation at the Capitol. She wasn't specific about who she talked

649
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:04.519
to, but it was some subcommittee. And so this is extraordinary that we

650
00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:12.960
have congressional subcommittees from space to defense
all, you know, having discussions about

651
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:19.719
UFOs behind the scenes. Yes,
you're absolutely right. And among the things

652
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:24.360
that David FRAVERR. Commander Fraver told
James Fox and I when we went up

653
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:30.559
to his home in New Hampshire to
interview him, he said that he's been

654
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:36.000
in touch with several members of the
Senate Armed what is it, the Armed

655
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:42.400
Services Committee, and he said that
they have talked with him on numerous occasions

656
00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:46.119
about what he experienced back in two
thousand and four. And he assured us,

657
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:50.239
he said, without giving you more
details, that's what he said to

658
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:52.800
us, without giving you more details, the same kind of things that we

659
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:58.960
experienced in two thousand and four are
now going on off the East coast this

660
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:05.360
time, and you wouldn't tell us
any more about it. Wow. Yeah,

661
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:10.400
Yeah. Well, I spoke with
a Chase recently, Chased Klotski,

662
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:19.920
and she basically said that she's involved
with some public figure and I just was

663
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:25.840
trying to pull it up that former
government agent that they are actually forming a

664
00:58:25.960 --> 00:58:34.880
UFO Think Tank really and yeah,
and they're taking it totally serious. And

665
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:38.280
I think it's a group of five
or more but fairly, you know,

666
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:44.719
we're talking with scientists as well,
and I think there's some type of connection

667
00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:47.559
to move on, but I don't
know exactly, so I don't really want

668
00:58:47.559 --> 00:58:52.760
to, you know, get that
wrong. I'd love to know more about

669
00:58:52.800 --> 00:58:58.480
that. So this is really interesting. What will result is what's really curious.

670
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:05.039
Are they going to maybe share more
about what a TIP is up to.

671
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:07.079
And of course, like I referenced, a TIP was a group that

672
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:15.480
Luis Elisondo ran at the Pentagon who
and Alasando says that that organization still exists,

673
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:21.639
so they're still doing research and we
have really there was one document and

674
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:24.159
I was gonna I might just moment
mentioned it. We talked about the Nimitz

675
00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:29.719
case because I think you brought it
up, Martin when you were talking about

676
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:32.840
uh, you know, Fravor and
him talking about his experience. Well,

677
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:37.719
one of the extraordinary news pieces that
came from George Knapp is the leaking of

678
00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:46.639
an actual analogy, actual document that
I've gotten from several different sources, let

679
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:53.960
alone just NAP that was written by
the military for the military about that encounter,

680
00:59:54.840 --> 01:00:00.880
and that's the only piece of really
infor we have from a tip.

681
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:05.119
We don't have any of their reports
or analysis or anything like that. So

682
01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:09.599
hopefully maybe they'll share more of that, Maybe they'll What if they decide to

683
01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:15.599
become more public facing with this organization, what would that entail? I did

684
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:17.639
ask Alisondo? At some point he
didn't mind if I shared this. I

685
01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:21.039
asked, well, what if they
do that? What if they ask you

686
01:00:21.079 --> 01:00:25.000
to come back and start to do
more serious investigation and give you more funding,

687
01:00:25.320 --> 01:00:30.840
would you do that? He said
no. He hesitated a bit.

688
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:34.559
He said no because he wants to
make sure that what he's doing going forward

689
01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.880
is very open and that the public
can see everything that they're doing. That

690
01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:42.880
it's very transparent. So he feels
like what they're doing at too the Stars

691
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:46.400
is much more transparent. But who
knows. I guess that could be a

692
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:52.840
possibility. It's interesting to see where
this might lead. Mm hmm, yeah,

693
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:59.840
good stuff. Well your turn again, mister Spiegel. Oh my turn.

694
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:07.039
Here's a cute little wand I found
on June twenty first, during a

695
01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:14.440
Buffalo, New York TV weather report
on TV called WKBW in Buffalo, the

696
01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:21.440
meteorologists pointed out something that was from
one of their time lapse cameras and they

697
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:23.519
showed us. She stopped her weather
the regular weather report to say, look

698
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:27.519
at what one of our cameras picked
up. And you see in the background

699
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:31.360
a lot of cloud cover. You
see the horizon and from the horizon,

700
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:36.679
and they stopped the camera the film
so you could see. She said,

701
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.079
see right there in front of that
cloud way off in the distance, there

702
01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:45.079
was a bright orb of light that
just suddenly appeared in front of some clouds,

703
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:50.960
and all of a sudden it started
moving toward the camera. And as

704
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:55.920
doctor has, Commander Fraver said the
tic tac that this thing came at the

705
01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:00.519
camera and then very quickly shot out
of sight. And they showed this on

706
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:04.880
during the weather report. And I
went back and I watched it a couple

707
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:07.519
of times, and it was whatever
it was, it was pretty cool to

708
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:13.239
see, you know, and nobody
tried to figure out what it was.

709
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:17.000
There was no explanation, but like
there it was during the weather report for

710
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:21.159
all to see. I like that
it was. It was a good one.

711
01:02:21.880 --> 01:02:25.960
Hmmm, that's interesting. I was
just contacted the other day by someone

712
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.920
that said, boy, if there's
way you can get this clip on CNN.

713
01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:32.960
He said, if it wasn't a
UFO, I don't know what the

714
01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:37.039
heck it was, And you know, nobody called nobody called it out,

715
01:02:37.280 --> 01:02:43.159
and he gave quite the detail of
what he thought he saw. What network

716
01:02:43.199 --> 01:02:46.000
did you say that was? That
was CNN? He was watching CNN and

717
01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:52.320
moves. Yeah, the thing that
I saw was up in Buffalo, New

718
01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:59.000
York. The name of the station
is w u kb W. I think

719
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:05.880
I think it maybe an affiliate of
ABC, but still, I mean,

720
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:08.159
it was you could tell it was. It was a real live me you

721
01:03:08.199 --> 01:03:13.320
know, weather report, and they
thought it was interesting enough to stop the

722
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:16.719
report to show whatever this thing was
with their own camera picked up coming at

723
01:03:16.760 --> 01:03:20.679
them. It was great. We'll
have to take a look at that one,

724
01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:23.559
because well, well yeah, I'll
have to take a look. It's

725
01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:30.159
just I know, those cameras can
be tricky because they getting into Mark D'Antonio

726
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:37.199
mode, like we yes, that's
right, because that the way things look

727
01:03:37.519 --> 01:03:42.000
like at night with with weather cameras, it bugs and things can reflect,

728
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:46.360
and especially if they're closer, they
will reflect the IR from the camera.

729
01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:50.599
If it has an IR or if
it has a light and so for instance,

730
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:52.239
you know in a dark area when
one thing is lit, it's going

731
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:55.599
to light up really bright. It's
something of course we do, Martin,

732
01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:59.920
and I know when we're doing our
podcast or you when you're shooting your doc

733
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:05.199
menory. That's one way you get, you know, dramatic looks by having

734
01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:11.519
a dark background that is in the
distance and then something blit in the foreground.

735
01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:14.880
So that can happen a lot.
It's just I've seen a lot of

736
01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:18.400
these, and I know I've seen
a few of these this year that were

737
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:25.639
effects like that. But it's fun. I think when the news captures things

738
01:04:25.679 --> 01:04:29.679
like that and they get really excited
about it. Yeah, they actually yeah,

739
01:04:29.719 --> 01:04:31.159
they weren't trying to put it down
or ridicule it or make fun of

740
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:35.800
it. Yeah, all right,
Martin, let's move to your next one.

741
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:41.119
Okay, Well, I think this
was a pretty big story and it

742
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:47.639
wasn't that long ago. Harvard researchers
see Alien Potential and Mysterious Object that's the

743
01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:53.159
title. And this is of course
headlines about a paper that was submitted to

744
01:04:53.199 --> 01:05:00.960
the Astrophysical Journal Letters. So the
mysterious cigar shaped objects spotted humbling through our

745
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:06.119
solar system last year may have been
an alien spacecraft sent to investigate Earth.

746
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:14.519
That's kind of you know in one
of the articles this kind of goes on.

747
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:20.440
But the object, nicknamed a Mua
Mua, which means a messenger that

748
01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:27.960
reaches out from the distant past in
Hawaiian, was discovered back in October twenty

749
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:34.760
seventeen by the Pan Stars one telescope
in Hawaii. Since its discovery, though,

750
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:41.079
scientists have been at odds to explain
its unusual features and precise origins,

751
01:05:41.800 --> 01:05:46.119
with researchers first calling it a comment, then an asteroid, before finally deeming

752
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:51.559
it the first of its kind a
new class of interstellar objects, and the

753
01:05:51.639 --> 01:05:59.960
paper by the Harvard Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics raised the possibility that the elongated,

754
01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:03.400
dark red object, which is ten
times as long as it is wide and

755
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:08.880
traveling at speeds of one hundred and
ninety six thousand miles an hour, which

756
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:14.679
I think is incredible, might have
an artificial origin. So it was.

757
01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:25.480
Avi Lobe and Frank Bailey Junior advanced
two possibilities for the object's origin, that

758
01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:29.880
it is debris from a now defunct
craft tumbling through the galaxy. Or that

759
01:06:30.239 --> 01:06:38.440
it was launched as a sort of
recon reconnaissance probe from elsewhere in the galaxy.

760
01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:45.760
And while he acknowledged that other astronomers, including the researcher who discovered MUA,

761
01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:49.719
have dismissed those ideas, Loebes said
such debates are important, are an

762
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:56.519
important part of the scientific process,
and while alien life may once have been

763
01:06:56.559 --> 01:07:01.519
strictly science fiction, he points out
to a growing body of evidence suggesting we

764
01:07:01.599 --> 01:07:06.159
are not alone. We know a
quarter of all the stars in the galaxy

765
01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:12.719
of planets and the habital zone habit
or post star and the habitable zone of

766
01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:17.480
their host star, so it's to
him it was not impossible that there may

767
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:23.280
be life elsewhere. By far,
the most intriguing observation, lope said,

768
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:30.320
suggested that muah Moa was not just
accelerating but deviating from its expected trajectory,

769
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:35.800
and there is no apparent outcasting like
comments have that can cause such a deviation.

770
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:42.000
So anyway, his hope is that
if next time around something like that

771
01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:45.199
comes through, that people will be
more intrigued and we'll do everything they can

772
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:49.800
to figure out what exactly it is. Anyway, I just thought that was

773
01:07:49.840 --> 01:07:55.599
a big story because of the way
it was published and who published it.

774
01:07:57.599 --> 01:08:02.199
I think that that's been extraordinary in
the last well recently that we've had I

775
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:08.760
mean with Tabby Starr this you know
star that they observe, you know,

776
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:13.159
strange dimming, and I don't think
there still a consensus as to why that's

777
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:17.920
happening. But the scientists who wrote
that paper suggested a potential extraterrestrial origins.

778
01:08:18.800 --> 01:08:27.920
In this case, I think it's
highly highly speculative, but still it demonstrates

779
01:08:29.199 --> 01:08:35.319
how the culture is changing, I
think among astronomers and astrophysicists in that they

780
01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:45.239
are being bold enough to suggest extraterrestrial
possibilities, and I think in particular extraterrestrial

781
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:48.960
civilizations that is a huge step too. I think that is so cool,

782
01:08:49.039 --> 01:08:53.680
so interesting. I mean, more
recently, we have this article from what

783
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:58.479
his name was Colombo. He did
this talk at the SETI conference where he

784
01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:02.399
suggested that, hey, maybe some
of these UFOs do come from elsewhere,

785
01:09:02.520 --> 01:09:06.560
just because physically humans wouldn't be able
to travel. What about robots or what

786
01:09:06.640 --> 01:09:13.520
about evolved robots, and what if
they came here and one of these probes

787
01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:16.800
crashed on our planet or another planet. These are things that we should investigate

788
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:24.279
because the possibility exists. Incidentally,
I guess some of you may know the

789
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:30.279
Scientific Coalition for Eupology. Hopefully they
won't mind me sharing this, but they

790
01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.279
had reached out to him, and
he's really pulled back. He was so

791
01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:41.840
kind of devastated by his work being
misrepresented, especially in the UK tabloids,

792
01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:45.239
that he doesn't even want to talk
about any of this anymore, which is

793
01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.600
really sad. But still that more
scientists are going there and hopefully they don't

794
01:09:49.640 --> 01:09:54.720
have an experience like him where their
work just gets totally blown out of proportion.

795
01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:00.479
But yeah, I think that's a
big shift in the culture when it

796
01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:05.560
comes to these scientists. There you
go, there you go. Yeah,

797
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:10.279
all right, a couple more stories
because we're running out of time, and

798
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:14.439
the first one. There's two that
I want to talk about, but I'm

799
01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:16.680
just going to bring up one for
now, and then I want to get

800
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:23.640
your feelings on the other. This
next big story, my next big story,

801
01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:27.039
since we talked pretty much about all
the A tip stuff, is Project

802
01:10:27.079 --> 01:10:32.520
blue Book. To me, the
History Channel tackling Project blue Book and deciding

803
01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:36.600
to represent it. It's dramatized.
It's fiction, you know, Martin and

804
01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:41.399
I we talked about this. In
fact, somebody accused us of just being

805
01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:45.079
born big long commercial. It's not
a big long commercial. It's significant because

806
01:10:45.439 --> 01:10:50.279
this is going to have an effect
on millions of viewers and millions of people.

807
01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:55.760
It's already having an effect on their
perceptions when it comes to UFOs and

808
01:10:55.800 --> 01:11:00.319
the Air Force's investigation of UFOs,
which wasn't black and white, cut and

809
01:11:00.439 --> 01:11:04.760
dry as all of us know.
There was a lot of mysterious mystery in

810
01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:10.439
those cases, and there was not
a consensus that these were all mundane objects.

811
01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:13.960
And I think that's going to come
out in this program, especially because

812
01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:18.479
the League character who's very likable played
by Aidan Gillen, is doctor j Allen

813
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:25.319
Heinek, who Lee you've got to
meet. But he comes across as just

814
01:11:25.399 --> 01:11:28.800
a very likable person, and I
think that he's going to be somewhat of

815
01:11:28.840 --> 01:11:31.680
a hero in this show, where
people are going to look up and they're

816
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:39.239
going to be tending to gravitate towards
his opinions and ideas about this topic and

817
01:11:39.319 --> 01:11:42.760
be looking into real cases. And
Lee, I don't know if you heard

818
01:11:42.800 --> 01:11:47.600
my interview from last week of Paul
Heinik but I did ask him on the

819
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:51.159
air if he remembered you when he
was a kid coming into the house,

820
01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:59.920
and he did repair you. The
thing that I have heard about this upcoming

821
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:03.760
series is is that I think part
of the promotion is that they're they're giving

822
01:12:03.800 --> 01:12:10.239
the impression that doctor Heinek was like
the leader of Project Bullbook, that you

823
01:12:10.279 --> 01:12:13.600
know, he was the guy that
was brought in to lead the investigations.

824
01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:16.319
But that's that's not true. Now
you've you've seen a couple of the episodes,

825
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:21.680
Do they give that impression about him, not at all. No.

826
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:27.199
Yeah, in fact, in the
first six episodes, yeah, Martin,

827
01:12:27.239 --> 01:12:30.359
seen the first six. I've seen
the first couple, and Martin, you

828
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:32.279
can, you know, correct me
and give me your ideas. But I

829
01:12:32.319 --> 01:12:35.279
mean, it's the Air Force that's
driving this, and just like in real

830
01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:39.880
life, they bring on doctor Heinek
as a consultant, but in fact they're

831
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:44.720
kind of bullying him. They've got
one character that kind of represents most of

832
01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:46.960
the Air Force people. But yeah, Martin, your perception, yeah,

833
01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:51.680
they're they're they're controlling him there.
They want to control him. They don't

834
01:12:51.720 --> 01:12:56.920
want him to look too hard into
the topic, into the specific you know,

835
01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.680
investigations, so they're they're definitely actually, you know, as far as

836
01:13:00.680 --> 01:13:05.520
I got in the six episode screeners, there is that you know, they

837
01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:10.359
they want him to just debunk and
that's it, and you know, don't

838
01:13:10.359 --> 01:13:15.520
look too hard. Yeah, I
would say, you know that, I

839
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:23.880
understand people who want who are criticizing
the details, but I think you you

840
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:27.399
just can't do that with fiction in
that you're never going to get all the

841
01:13:27.439 --> 01:13:31.640
details to be accurate. Look at
close encounters and what a positive effect that

842
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:36.640
had. It's probably why I'm so
compelled to be in this field. It's

843
01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:44.880
not accurate, it's fictionalized what you
know, what Jayellen Heinez consulted Spielberg about,

844
01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:47.640
But it gives you a sense of
what was going on. And I

845
01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:51.239
think what is good about what the
History Channel is doing is they're saying,

846
01:13:51.319 --> 01:13:55.960
Okay, here's our fiction show that
gives you kind of a sense of what

847
01:13:56.039 --> 01:13:59.079
was going on, But if you
go to our website, we have real

848
01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:05.239
arts that are giving you the facts. Yeah. Yeah, Well, I'm

849
01:14:05.239 --> 01:14:11.159
glad that you both came away from
the episode is feeling that way. I'm

850
01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:15.640
looking forward to seeing it. Yeah, I really am so. I thank

851
01:14:15.680 --> 01:14:20.439
you both for giving me a little
preview just from what you said. And

852
01:14:20.439 --> 01:14:24.680
then finally I want to ask you
guys this real quick or did you have

853
01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:29.199
something more to say about it.
The other big thing, of course,

854
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:32.840
that's happened at the end of the
year that we probably should address is Jeremy

855
01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:39.439
Corbel's second documentary of the year,
I'm Bob Blazaar. Now I've seen this.

856
01:14:39.680 --> 01:14:42.279
I don't know if you all have. I think Martin you have.

857
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:46.560
And is it a big story?
I think in a way as the story

858
01:14:46.680 --> 01:14:51.960
in that what shocking is. Even
just today there's this major comedian who tweeted

859
01:14:53.119 --> 01:14:56.840
Jeremy and said, you know,
hey, great job on the documentary.

860
01:14:56.880 --> 01:15:02.000
It's so important. So the penetry
creation. I guess this topic is getting

861
01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:10.359
into the mainstream from this documentary.
I think it's significant. It's interesting.

862
01:15:10.399 --> 01:15:14.920
The guy's name was Dane Cook got
something like that, oh yeah, yeah,

863
01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:17.880
for it's three million followers, and
he retweeted Jeremy Singh and said,

864
01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:21.960
hey, you know, he loved
it, and so culturally I think it's

865
01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:27.439
significant. Now, I don't know
if there's anything really compelling and convincing.

866
01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:30.199
I think it's great. We heard
from way more from Lazarre than we've ever

867
01:15:30.279 --> 01:15:36.560
heard before. But yeah, this
is another pretty big thing I guess for

868
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:42.039
this field that's happened at the end
of the year. M hm, well,

869
01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:45.960
I agree. And whether everything that
he has told over the years is

870
01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:54.720
true or not, it's still a
pretty compelling story because compared to all the

871
01:15:54.760 --> 01:15:59.119
other stuff, all the criticism about
Lazarre and what did he say and was

872
01:15:59.159 --> 01:16:03.720
the true at the very least,
if it wasn't for Lazarre telling his story

873
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:09.159
to George Napp back in what nineteen
eighty eight eighty nine, we might never

874
01:16:09.239 --> 01:16:13.840
have heard of a thing called Area
fifty one, right, I mean it

875
01:16:13.880 --> 01:16:17.840
famous. Yeah, And so he
at least wasn't lying about that because the

876
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:20.960
government finally said, yeah, okay, there is an Area fifty one,

877
01:16:21.960 --> 01:16:28.079
but there are no aliens there.
But even because of that, it was

878
01:16:28.159 --> 01:16:31.479
because of the things that Lazarre said
back then to George, and then George

879
01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:36.800
broke the story. Now it's in
our consciousness Area fifty one. That's what's

880
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:43.520
really important and significant to me.
What do you think, Martin, Well,

881
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:47.880
you know, I watched I watched
the documentary and I came away from

882
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:53.920
it just thinking that I was trying. There was an attempt to convince me

883
01:16:54.920 --> 01:17:00.800
or convince the watcher, the listener, whatever of And I'm still I gotta

884
01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:04.079
tell you, I'm still on the
fence about Bob Lazarre. It's still a

885
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:08.039
big mystery to me. I don't
really know what to think about it.

886
01:17:08.760 --> 01:17:12.119
I am too, I agree with
you. I mean, I felt there

887
01:17:12.119 --> 01:17:15.479
were some more a couple of my
questions that I felt were not answered,

888
01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:21.159
that weren't answered in the film,
not convincingly, I would say. I

889
01:17:21.199 --> 01:17:25.039
mean, I think, well,
I shouldn't say that. I would say

890
01:17:25.079 --> 01:17:29.880
compelling answers, but not necessarily something
to knock me off of being on the

891
01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:31.800
fence over this. And some people
are on Twitter I think just today were

892
01:17:31.800 --> 01:17:35.039
saying, oh, you're talking to
al Ajandro who's a believer, And I'm

893
01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:41.800
not. I'm very much on the
fence with Lazar. But it was a

894
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.960
compelling documentary and I was really interesting
to see more about him, and it

895
01:17:46.039 --> 01:17:50.359
did give me more to think about, that's for sure about this case.

896
01:17:50.399 --> 01:17:53.920
And Lee, I think you really
got to see it as soon as you

897
01:17:53.960 --> 01:17:59.199
can, because it does change the
conversation a bit. Okay, all right,

898
01:17:59.239 --> 01:18:01.079
I trust you, and I like
Jeremy. I like the work that

899
01:18:01.079 --> 01:18:06.439
he does. He's very passionate about
his work, and I believe that Jeremy

900
01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:12.359
has a lot of credibility as a
filmmaker. So yeah, I'll definitely watch

901
01:18:12.439 --> 01:18:15.439
it. I'm looking forward to it. All right. Since I snuck in

902
01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:18.640
those two last ones, I'll give
you guys a chance if you have anything,

903
01:18:18.920 --> 01:18:21.640
you know, really compelling from last
year that you want to add in

904
01:18:21.680 --> 01:18:26.840
here before we end. Now is
your chance? Okay, well you know

905
01:18:26.880 --> 01:18:30.960
what, let me jump in.
There were two videos that I saw,

906
01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:34.880
one one from June and then one
from July. The one in June shows

907
01:18:35.680 --> 01:18:43.800
a black cigar shaped object, yes, but hovering horizontally over of all places,

908
01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:48.880
the NASCAR lines in Peru. And
part of the story is that the

909
01:18:48.920 --> 01:18:57.199
Peruvian Association of Ufology they uploaded the
video on June twenty seventh and described the

910
01:18:57.239 --> 01:19:02.439
strange, unmoving object and the videographer
who took it. He kept zooming in

911
01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:08.239
and out so that viewers could get
a sense of how far away the UFO

912
01:19:08.479 --> 01:19:13.840
sat in the sky above some mountains, and I appreciated that. So that

913
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:20.199
was one cigar shaped UFO. And
then following that on July seventh, a

914
01:19:20.279 --> 01:19:27.960
family reported and they videotaped a black
cigar shaped UFO hovering, this time vertically

915
01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:34.199
over Banbury in the UK, and
at approximately one minute into the video,

916
01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:40.439
there's suddenly a bright light that moves
upward from the bottom of the object,

917
01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:46.319
goes all the way up to the
top and before the videographer managed to get

918
01:19:46.319 --> 01:19:51.000
his camera focused on the object.
He later reported that it was flashing and

919
01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:58.920
rotating. Two really interesting cigar shaped
videos. I thought, I'm familiar with

920
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:02.479
these ones. Yeah, I don't
have anything more to comment except I'd like

921
01:20:02.560 --> 01:20:09.000
to comment on the last video you're
talking about, Lee, And what I

922
01:20:09.119 --> 01:20:13.600
noticed about that particular video was you
did see the light like go along on

923
01:20:13.880 --> 01:20:16.319
the side of it, Yeah,
when he was just about closing out,

924
01:20:16.479 --> 01:20:20.640
just at the very end, it
appeared to be And nobody mentioned this that

925
01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:28.920
there were along the horizontal horizontally along
both sides, there seemed to be a

926
01:20:29.079 --> 01:20:31.239
glowing or a light. I don't
know if you want to check that video

927
01:20:31.479 --> 01:20:36.800
out again, but I thought nobody
even talked about that, and I thought

928
01:20:36.800 --> 01:20:42.359
that was pretty interesting, and that
was definitely something in the sky for sure.

929
01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:45.520
It wasn't anything made up, Yeah, but it was interesting. Sorry

930
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:50.359
to be that the party pooper,
but I just feel, in my opinion,

931
01:20:50.520 --> 01:20:54.920
the Nasca Line one looks like a
cloud. To me, it looks

932
01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:59.960
like you know, this happens a
lot where uh it's probably even part of

933
01:21:00.159 --> 01:21:03.399
a contrail because it's long and skinny, but it looks cloudish to me.

934
01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:08.600
I really feel it looks like a
cloud or probably a piece of contrail.

935
01:21:09.079 --> 01:21:13.600
And then the second one to me, and I don't know. To me,

936
01:21:13.840 --> 01:21:17.479
I think they both clearly look like
these. It looks like a solar

937
01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:23.720
balloon. And then the UK that's
where solar balloons became big, and the

938
01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:27.079
lighter effects are from the wind and
because it's made out of a very thin

939
01:21:27.159 --> 01:21:31.680
material and so it's reflecting the sun. I don't think it's self luminescent at

940
01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:35.119
all. I think it's just reflecting
the sun in different ways as it moves

941
01:21:35.199 --> 01:21:40.920
around the sky, and the wind
makes it the very thin skin kind of

942
01:21:40.960 --> 01:21:47.960
move around. So I know,
I I thought about that, but I

943
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:50.159
do want to say that if you
get a chance to take a look at

944
01:21:50.159 --> 01:21:55.520
that one, just look at the
end and take a look at what I

945
01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:58.439
was mentioning about. The lights on
both sides of the yea. Yeah,

946
01:21:58.479 --> 01:22:00.760
well, I know exactly what you
mean, and it's kind of a ro

947
01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:04.159
roar. But again, I mean, if it's reflecting and that's more of

948
01:22:04.199 --> 01:22:11.399
an effect of the camera than the
actual object itself, Yeah, I think

949
01:22:11.439 --> 01:22:15.039
he just di' antonio does I know. Well, you know, these are

950
01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:18.319
both ones that I posted. We've
posted in the Open Mind's UFO news group,

951
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:21.439
which I implore everybody to check out
because we have a lot of great

952
01:22:21.439 --> 01:22:27.239
people in there, including D'Antonio,
to look at these videos, and people

953
01:22:27.319 --> 01:22:30.840
really give them some pretty tough scrutiny, which is great because we want to

954
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:32.880
know and of course, you know, sometimes we all agree, sometimes we

955
01:22:32.960 --> 01:22:36.680
don't. Well I shouldn't say that, in fact, everybody disagrees in all

956
01:22:36.760 --> 01:22:41.640
of them. But I think I
don't know if it's D'Antonio who chimed in

957
01:22:41.680 --> 01:22:45.880
on this. I think he did
on that second one especially, But yeah,

958
01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:47.560
I kind of agree with those conclusions. And the hard part is,

959
01:22:47.800 --> 01:22:51.479
like D'Antonio says, if we can't
prove otherwise, you know, if there's

960
01:22:51.520 --> 01:22:58.479
nothing in there that can really prove
otherwise, and your null hypothesis is essentially

961
01:22:58.520 --> 01:23:02.600
what you got to go with.
So Martin did you have any last minute?

962
01:23:03.279 --> 01:23:06.600
No, that's it for me.
I'm done. I would like to

963
01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:13.520
tell the audience that and this is
a plug for Alejandro. Alejandro always posts

964
01:23:14.079 --> 01:23:19.920
really interesting headlines on Open Minds TV, and on November first of twenty eighteen,

965
01:23:20.760 --> 01:23:26.359
you had a headline that really caught
my attention, the one about how

966
01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:31.920
actor Laurence Fishburn is going to star
and produce this eight part TV UFO drama

967
01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:39.000
called Rendelsham. I like that.
Yeah, that is a really interesting thing

968
01:23:39.079 --> 01:23:43.399
that there'll be a TV show.
Yeah, I mean coming up about the

969
01:23:43.399 --> 01:23:46.920
Rendelsom forest incident. I know,
I know that ought to be really interesting.

970
01:23:47.439 --> 01:23:50.840
It may not be newsy, but
but we are talking about twenty eighteen,

971
01:23:50.920 --> 01:23:55.279
and that's when you had your headline
and the story about it. I

972
01:23:55.319 --> 01:23:58.640
thought that was really interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. I agree.

973
01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:02.199
Well, thanks for the plug,
and that is a good one something to

974
01:24:02.319 --> 01:24:09.840
look forward to. So other things
to look forward to is Martin Willis and

975
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:13.800
podcast UFO. So I'm sure you're
going to have another year of great shows.

976
01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:16.079
You're not planning on going anywhere,
right, Martin, No, I'm

977
01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:24.680
going nowhere. Well I wouldn't say
that. Yeah, And then of course

978
01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:28.239
Lee, We've got your documentary to
look forward to, hopefully in the spring.

979
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:31.119
Yeah. I can't wait for that. Yeah, and me neither can

980
01:24:31.159 --> 01:24:33.720
I because I want to move on
to the next project, but not before

981
01:24:33.760 --> 01:24:36.960
I take a trip somewhere just to
kind of get it out of my system.

982
01:24:39.239 --> 01:24:43.520
And then most likely all of us
will be meeting and hopefully with well

983
01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:47.399
with Jeremy, and I'll say this
right now, at least I've gotten several

984
01:24:47.479 --> 01:24:55.359
verbal confirmations that will have George Knapp, Louise Elizondo of course you two will

985
01:24:55.399 --> 01:24:59.479
be there, and then hopefully James
Fox should be able to make it.

986
01:24:59.520 --> 01:25:03.439
We'll be all getting together here in
the Phoenix area in September for the International

987
01:25:03.520 --> 01:25:09.560
UFO Congress. I can't wait to
see what that that's all gonna look like.

988
01:25:09.720 --> 01:25:14.279
That'll be amazing, how frigging cool. And you know, we're still

989
01:25:14.439 --> 01:25:18.119
we're still working on getting stan Friedman
to make an appearance there. Well,

990
01:25:18.119 --> 01:25:20.720
he says he's going to be there
too, so we'll be able to give

991
01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:25.159
him a fun farewell. Because I
guess the one thing we didn't mention of

992
01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:30.800
this year, and I actually had
it noted, is that Stanton Friedman retired

993
01:25:30.840 --> 01:25:33.800
in twenty eighteen. Well, that's
that's right, that's right, that was

994
01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:39.239
a big news item too. But
he's he's still but at least he's not

995
01:25:39.279 --> 01:25:43.840
taking a suitcase around anymore like he
used to now and and he's just kind

996
01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:46.600
of showing up to thank people.
And I love that, and we all

997
01:25:46.640 --> 01:25:51.079
owe him so much in this field. We do, I agree. I

998
01:25:51.079 --> 01:25:58.279
mean, he's an extraordinary person and
we're so lucky to work with him.

999
01:25:58.319 --> 01:26:02.039
So's it would be a lot of
fun to tell him goodbye. And it's

1000
01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:09.439
really cool that he has been at
so many He's been at many of the

1001
01:26:09.520 --> 01:26:15.319
last few International UFO Congresses, even
if he wasn't speaking, although I think

1002
01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:23.199
always we ended up putting him in
a panel or something. And what other

1003
01:26:23.279 --> 01:26:27.439
thing, speaking of San Friedman,
as I kind of do my other things

1004
01:26:27.479 --> 01:26:32.039
to look out for, is that
at the International UFO Congress YouTube page,

1005
01:26:32.359 --> 01:26:38.800
we posted a video. It's a
thirty minute video that is actually clips from

1006
01:26:39.159 --> 01:26:44.279
a panel from twenty fifteen at the
International UFO Congress. This was the same

1007
01:26:44.399 --> 01:26:48.359
congress that Bob Lazaar was at,
and Jeremy had released a short kind of

1008
01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:56.279
clip that he actually integrated to his
more recent documentary at this conference for our

1009
01:26:56.359 --> 01:27:01.600
conference goers, but we had a
whistleblower panel and on that panel was Ruben

1010
01:27:01.720 --> 01:27:08.199
Uriarte talking about this case from California. We had Mark Pilkington, who's talked

1011
01:27:08.199 --> 01:27:11.840
about Richard Dody. He wrote a
book on that called Mirage Man, and

1012
01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:16.199
of course I've talked about him a
lot, an alleged whistleblower. And then

1013
01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:23.359
we had other whistleblower representatives such as
Stanton Friedman to talk about Jesse Marcel who

1014
01:27:23.359 --> 01:27:27.600
of course the whole Roswell thing,
and then of course Jeremy Corbell on the

1015
01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:31.199
stage to talk about Bob Lazar,
which gave us, of course an opportunity

1016
01:27:31.520 --> 01:27:38.520
to have Jeremy and Stanton debate Bob
Lazar. And so we've got thirty minutes

1017
01:27:38.560 --> 01:27:44.800
of them debating during this panel that's
uploaded to the UFO Congress YouTube page for

1018
01:27:44.880 --> 01:27:48.000
people to watch, and then there's
a link to watch the entire thing on

1019
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:53.800
vimeo in the show notes there,
so definitely people will want to check that

1020
01:27:53.840 --> 01:28:00.720
out. That's great, all right. Otherwise, come, yeah, thank

1021
01:28:00.760 --> 01:28:03.119
you guys so much for being on
the show. Thank you. What's like?

1022
01:28:03.239 --> 01:28:08.760
Ye? I hope you guys have
a great twenty nineteen, and I

1023
01:28:08.800 --> 01:28:12.079
guess the other things, I'll say, it's just open Minds, don't forget.

1024
01:28:12.159 --> 01:28:14.800
You can find out links to all
of this stuff and you can get

1025
01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:18.720
links to the latest news at Openminds
dot tv. Also, oh, I

1026
01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:23.920
better get going because in fifteen minutes, I've got to do my live YouTube

1027
01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:28.159
show that I do every week at
six pm, well most weeks if there's

1028
01:28:28.199 --> 01:28:33.079
not a holiday or something going on
at six pm. And we've got more

1029
01:28:33.199 --> 01:28:39.199
exciting interviews in store for the show, so be sure to check back.

1030
01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:44.079
Also, some of you might have
noticed our lamps. These UFO hovering lamps

1031
01:28:44.079 --> 01:28:48.479
have been a huge hit at the
UFO Congress store along with other things,

1032
01:28:48.479 --> 01:28:50.920
and we ran out of them,
but we're going to be getting more in

1033
01:28:51.199 --> 01:28:55.760
soon if you were curious about when
we're getting those, because I've had a

1034
01:28:55.760 --> 01:28:58.920
lot of people ask about them.
But we've got all kinds of cool stuff

1035
01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:02.800
at the store that you can check
out stored at Ufocongress dot com. And

1036
01:29:03.159 --> 01:29:08.359
I guess just stay tuned for more
information. Thank you so much to Caleb

1037
01:29:08.439 --> 01:29:13.560
Hanks for the opening and close music
of the show. Thank you to Systematics

1038
01:29:13.600 --> 01:29:17.399
for the bumper music, and of
course as usual, Thank you all the

1039
01:29:17.479 --> 01:29:24.159
listeners for listening and until next week, anybody want to join me with my

1040
01:29:24.199 --> 01:30:19.760
little end audios mood. Chacho you
mus