What is up, fellow thermonuclear afors. I am Dappa Valley coming at you with but frequent guests. Now, this is the third time that she's agreed to come back on the podcast, which means it's officially her fault. The first two I will take responsibility for. But the third time, you know what you're getting into. Olivia Punchhall, she is formerly of the Daily Thunder podcast. Did did a fantastic job over there. She is a medical school student, which is also why she's not a part of the Daily Thunder anymore. But she's also just a big Thunder fan and knows a lot about this team. And I'm delighted that you agreed to run it back for a third consecutive Okay, see Thunder look Ahead. The most important question I will ask on this podcast, though, how the heck are you? I'm good. I can't believe it's spend three times. I actually didn't realize that we've done this that many times. That's awesome. It's been good. It's been busy, obviously, with not school and everything. It's been a little bit challenging to keep up with basketball, but I'm doing my best. It's going to be a crazy season with all of the new developments in the past couple of weeks, which I'm sure we'll get into, but I'm looking forward to getting into it. Yeah, I mean, were you just like, did people ask you to consult on Chet's Liz frank injury after that happened. Yeah, and I've noticed that. Okay, so obviously I'm not a doctor. Let me just profess this whole podcast by staying that I'm not a doctor yet, but I do have in my like Twitter bio that would a medical student, and so like I'll get all these like dams and tweets the like Olivia Olivia like how long is he going to be out? Like what's injury? Like what is this? What is that? And I'm like, I know the same information that you all know, and I'm also googling and learning. Oh I write along with you. So I'm not the person to ask. They're definitely way more qualified people than me who cannot talk about these things. So just refer to those people and not even circle back to me in Navy light ten years and look, you're not even if you're a doctor, unless they're sending you like his like the vitals on his medicals. You can only infer from Afar. That's probably a place to start, because I remain excited about the Thunder, but just the idea of Shay and Chet, Holme, Grin and Jayn Williams, like I was very I was giddy, so to speak about this Thunder season. What does his injury? Well, I guess let's start with Chet. A lot of people have painted, oh, well, I was always concerned about his durability issues. The best way I've seen it framed was from John Hollinger, where it's like, this is not someone who got injured because he was pancaked by a position, like a guy who plays a position that he's going to defend. It was a non contact injury. So I don't remain that concerned with it. But when you look at just his build, him being over seven foot, what we know about injuries to seven footers, does this concern you at all? Are you ultimately okay with Okay, Well, he's just gonna delay his NBA debut for a year. Yeah, I mean okay, So I don't think that. I think it's unfair to say that, Like if Chut was like fifty pounds bigger and he wouldn't have gotten this injury. It's just one of those like freak things that just happen. And I don't know if he's more or less susceptible because he's seven feet tall to an injury like this. Like definitely, there are other injuries where it's like, you know, like ankle problems or lower back problems. You've seen that with players like like A d he has like a lot of chronic back problems for being as large as he is, and Zion with his ankles and his feet. So that's like definitely a thing, But I don't think it's the reason here as far as like concern for the future. You know, anytime you have a surgery, whatever you're repairing, the repair is always going to be weaker than what was originally there. And that's just true of any type of surgical procedure or any type of repair. And when they go in there and they do that procedure, there's damage to surrounding tissues and vessels and things like that. So he's not going to be a hundred percent even after the surgeon. I think it's important to understand that there's going to be a long road of recovery and rehabilitation for him. With this type of procedure that happens, like in a joint, there's always a risk of damage to cartilage, and we're chronic problems like arthritis, and not saying any of those things are going to happen, but there are things to consider him to think about. So, while I don't think it's going to be like a career ending injury for him, if you think it's going to maybe take some time for him to get back to where he was before, we didn't even get to see his baseline, So you know, it's a little bit difficult to say if he'll be better or worse post injury, because we really never even got to see what he is right now. And I'm also just curious as to what you think this does to how the thunder. It's not only about just this season, but what it does to this season, but then also beyond, because as you mentioned, he's gonna come back next year and he'll be a rookie and now you have to take in his developmental curve there and so does this actually appreciably set back the rebuild, change the context of what you're doing. Just how do you That's such a huge tough question to answer. How do you think does impact the Thunder's trajectory. It's terrible if by being totally honest, I don't know if I was being overly optimistic, but I think I can speak for a lot of Thunder fans and kind you know, the vibe in like Thunder culture was that this was like a big stepping stone. We hadn't ended the tank, but we had definitely there was a definitely palpable shift away from the tank when we got the number two pick and we got chat home grin, and so it seemed like even though we weren't maybe going to make the playoffs this year, you know, maybe a play in game would be our ceiling this year and then playoff contending in the year or the next year. And now just like losing a whole year, it just sucks because I feel like now we have to go back to losing on purpose and you know, shutting down the team halfway through the season, which is not fun for anyone, especially for Thunder fans. And you know, it just seemed like there was an end in sight, and now I really don't know what's going to happen next. The thing I cringed was when I saw the reactions were basically like, oh, Sam press season, his office just fist pumping after Check got injured because now they entered the Scoot Henderson Wendy sweepstakes. And I have been a I've actually been on Thunder podcast, a Thunder podcast because I am nationally a Thunder rebuild truther. I see a rhyme and reason of what they're doing. What do you think the national media or just basketball fans who don't follow the Thunder, what are they missing most about this on the rebuild? And I will add this, I don't they just traded three first round picks to get Rumon Jang. That's a consolidation trade like that showed some level of aggression, some level of aim. So I don't know how you look at a move like that. And yeah, again the Chet injury, it changed a bunch, but they still had like that stigma against them before that. And so what do you think people miss about this rebuild the most? You know, I think it's two things. I think I think we've seen other teams tank unsuccessfully. It's become such a common thing like either you're consistently in the playoffs or you're tanking. But those two other teams. A lot of them they tank without rhyme or reason, whereas I feel like there's a very intentional way that Sam Presty makes the choices that he makes, which doesn't make it just like losing on purpose and hoping for the best. Like I think he's very calculated about it. And the other thing that I don't think that they're like national media outlets and other people outside of Oklahoma really understand is like the culture, not only as in our team, but also the culture of the city, which I think is what the culture of the team really builds off. It's going to sound really cheesy and dumb, but I just feel like, you know, it's so important. It's such a like the thunder is such an important part of Oklahoma City and of our culture and of our coal vibe that for us to lose on purpose and just be bad in perpetuity, it's like not really an option for stand Prusty or anyone in the front office or for the team, like they have to get back to winning. It's literally all there is an Oklahoma City. The only thing that we can be fully united around is Oklahoma City. And I feel like in other places they don't really understand that, like having lived in Los Angeles and having lived in Oklahoma City, there's just no unity in other places around a certain team or a player that we have it like the way we have it in Oklahoma City, and I think that's really special. But it also means that they've got a hurry up and get back into the playoffs soon, which is also kind of why the idea that they're just eating to flip shake just Alexander for picks is mind melting to me. I mean, we've already seen them consolidate picks because there're just aren't enough roster spots to go around, and so that is just like that, I guess it doesn't annoy me. But like, let's have the same energy with Luca don Jich in Dallas then, because like they've kind of fucked up the way that they rebuild around him. Let's wait for him to ask out or why aren't they just going to trade Luca for picks at some point? Yeah, And I think part of inherent in that culture, it goes both ways. It's the culture of the front office but also of the players. And so I don't think that Shakel's Alexander is going to demand to be traded because Chath Holmgren got injured and it kind of spent our timeline back. He's I don't I think he has the same level of trust that we have and Sam Presti and the choices that he make is making and knows that's scan Preusti is very intentional about the decisions that he makes. It is not gonna let Sta just squander away the private for his career. That's just not gonna happen. Yeah, and look, you can't speak to the future, but two things that stand out. He doesn't have a player option in five year deal, and if they really pushed forward, I think that he had the leverage to get one. And two he left the season as his exit interview saying like, yeah, I mean, Sam talk all the time, I'm confident in the future of this team. And it's like, you don't hear every player say that, And so that's a good harbinger. You can't speak what happens years down the line. But the idea that this is like on tilt for some reason, without having any evidence that suggests it actually is on tilt, is is ridiculous and it's definitely a problem with some of the coverage, I do an actual basketball questions for you. Okay, okay, Son, let's get into it. Shay looks a lot stronger than he did last year, and this is sort of a twofold question is do you think that's gonna help him become an even better finisher or kind of bump up his volume at the rim which dropped off last year. And the second part of that is we also saw his efficiency in general dip last season. Was there anything you saw specifically that might concern you or you're watching for or was this just very much a function of look at the damn burden that he's tasked with ferrying as a self creator within a pretty confined space when you look at the Thunders half court offense. Yeah, so I think that him getting bigger is going to be really rate for him. And finishing around the rim. I think, you know, there's you know, two types of player that players that are really good at finishing around the rim. Those that just like power their way to the rim, like a Russell Westbrook back in the day, and then those that kind of have like this finesse to kind of weave their way to the rim. And that's kind of Shavyl to Alexander. But if he is, if he gets a little bigger, puts a little meat on him, can kind of fight his way around the rim. You know, then you're kind of talking about this is a stretch obviously, and it's not a grout comparison, but like Luca don Chis, where he has that finesse and that ability to handle the ball but also to finish at the rim and like that I think is a very highly sought after skill and if he's able to tap into that, I think that would be really good for him. And as far as like his efficiency going kind of down at the end of last season, I agree with you. I think it just didn't really have the floor, was poorly space. There's really no win to pass it to. I don't know how much better it's going to be this year. I think Josh Giddy is substantially better than he was last year. I think he finished the season really strong. I think he looks really good in Summer League. I think he's a lot of work in the offseason that's gonna ask like the Jalen Williams is and how how they're gonna be You know, Dang, I don't really know. So it's just there's so many unknowns with the thunder right now that it'll be interesting to see how they're able to diversify the offense. Who do you think is like most important to that happening this year? Is it just Josh Giddy? Yeah, I want need to relieve the burden the most. Yeah, I think so. He's the most consistent, the most reliable. He can handle the ball himself, but he can also play off ball, so that creates an interesting dynamic I think where they can kind of, you know, trade offs, basing for each other, you know, both kind of create shots for each other. Maybe even U look into staggering them and having Josh Giddy kind of run the point with the bench players for a little while. I think there's a lot of room for them to work together and for them to both flourish in that offense. They don't think they really have to take away from each other. I think they play really well together and they will be even better once Josh Kiddy kind of nails down his jump shot, his mid rate shot, which I think he's gotten a love beout it. He looked good in Summer League, obviously not as good as opponents, but it's promising. Chipanguin already paying dividends there. But I do have a question about Josh Kiddy. I wanted to. So we both predicted last year that Shay would make an All Star team and not. He's still clearly that caliber of player. But what is the whether it's one thing or a collection of things, But what are you looking for think that he needs to do to enter those mainstream All Star all NBA discussions, you know, this season, but also beyond. Yeah, so there's two things that I think are not in his control and one thing that is in his control. So I started things that are out of his control, which are reasons why I don't think he made it last year. So one, the West has just stuffs heavy with really talented guards, a lot of new young players like John Morant, and You've got Stuff and you've got Clay, You've got all these people in the Western Conference that make it really challenging to make it as a guard. With Donovan Mitchell leaving, that potentially opens up some room, but it's still challenging. The other thing is that it's really hard to make the All Star team when your team is winning twenty games in a season, it's just hard to stand out. It's hard to shine when everything else looks so tragic, and so I think that also makes it exponentially harder. I think if the Thunderwear a playoff contending team, he'd have it a lot easier time making an All Star team. So those two things aren't really in his control. But what's in his control is I think he just needs to hit that like superstar caliber. He has to be able to take over games. He has to be able to you know, wild the team to wins, to really take charge of the offense, to create to create shots, but also to be able to create shots for himself and really you know, put himself in a position to win. And those are the things that I think set him apart from just being a good team player, which he really is, and he obviously has these great blotches of offense, is great defensive players as well, but I think just you know, having that leadership that you know, that ability to take over the game, that flash is what kind of gets you into the All Star Game. And he's still Houston room to grow there. Do you think that his defense has then been underrated nationally because I look at him and I compare him to like what he did his rookie season in LA and there's like been a certain stiffness to me with him in Oklahoma City or where sometimes they not go out of the way, but he's not even involved in defending like some of the primary actions you would expect him to. Is there anything you've noticed there specifically? Are they just trying to do that because they want him to conserve energy on the offensive end since his usage has to be so high there? Yeah, I mean I think it also it's partly because Blue Dort's on the team and he's just such a phenomenal, lockdown defender that he's kind of the person that you put on the other team's best player, And so I don't know, I don't know if it's a trade off. I mean, I think I'd rather have Flue Dort doing that, but maybe, yeah, maybe that's maybe part of it. It's just like, because Blue Dort is so exceptional defensively, it kind of he kind of pales in comparison. But I do think that for a guard at his position and his size, I think he's I think he's a great defender. Josh Giddy someone who I remained fairly low on compared to the contentsist, fantastic passer, great size. Think he's gonna be a very good defender. He's already really good rebounder. And to his credit, people talk about his jump shot. I felt like towards the end of the season and we saw in some league like there's confidence in his floater. He did shoot forty four percent up from mid range, So can he up the volume on those? And now look Chef Anglin just being in Okay, See, that was one of the biggest free agency signings period of the Like that's you look at the players who work with and Dort and jang and Giddy like he could single handedly, like really make a difference for Okay. See, But what are I guess one, what gives you so much confidence in Josh Giddy in general, especially when you look at him fitting next to Sga as you mentioned before. And what's the biggest thing you're really I think you alluded to this with his jump shot? Do you see you know a long range like even not let's not say off the dribble, but if defenses go under him on screens that he can just take those like methodical pull ups or just hit those three pointers off the catch. Yeah. I like his confidence in himself. I like that he knows that he is like he knows he has still he's not complacent. He knows he has room to improve, but he's willing to put in that work. And it really shows when he like towards the end of last season, when he was getting those triple doubles, I just thought his confidence shoot up. But once his confidence shot up and he knew that he could handle the ball, that he could leave the team when SGA is not there, I think that it really did wonders for his game as well. And I think it made him more comfortable with shooting those mid range shots. And I hope that carries into this season and he kind of gets to still have some of those ball handling responsibilities even when SGA is still there. So that gives me confidence. You know. He finished what was it like six fifth or sixth and the Rookie of the years Rookie of the Year race, which I think was really excellent. I think that he outplayed a lot of the people that got drafted ahead of him, and I think all those things make him more confident as a player. I really really liked what him and Chat had going their pick and roll action. They're kind of, you know, their chemistry, and it's really excited to see that. But maybe he can kind of recreate that with with someone else. I don't know who, because we don't really have a center power words questionable. We'll see. But if he can kind of recreate that same kind of chemistry, you know, creating shots for other people, keeping up his passing, I think he'll be good. That makes the chet injury sucks so much more because he is, like, forget about the Thunder not really having a defined big man rotation like he is. This like the perfect big because there's ability to stretch up forward to play alongside Josh Giddy and his in between game and vision. Yeah, and they're like best friends too, so that's really cute. I'm already upset, I will say. Josh Giddy reminds me if you look at him right now. I know, if you've ever seen the movie seventeen again, was zac Efron makeover? It kind of looked like that version of zach Efron but didn't go tanning or something. And that is what I see every time I see Giddy, you know, I feel I feel like last year, Giddy is like the nicest, most down to earth person. He's like the perfect person to come play in Oklahoma. He's super sweet. But then when twout Chet and they started hanging out together, I feel like Chet kind of unlocked this chip and Jenny and Josh Giddy like kind of had this chip on his shoulder. Now he kind of was like a little bit more like a little bit more cocky, a little bit more HOTTI about his game. And I think it's good for him. It's not like annoying. I think it's good that he has that. I think he needs that to kind of push him to make those strides, to make those changes in this game. I am ready and willing to eat crow on him wind up really becoming a more dynamic offensive score. What of your Do you have any impressions for the thunders of other rookies, because there's a trillion of them. We have the jail and Williams is plural and then a personal favorite of mine, Uschman Jang. Yeah, following Summer League slash based on what you just already know about about these dudes. Yeah, So out of those three so far, I've been most impressed with Jay Dubb which is Jaalen Williams with an E Santa Parra. He was really impressive in summer league. I think he played great offensively, he played great defensively. He he was really good at cutting to the basket. He had a couple of dunks that were really exceptional and just kind of got the team a roll up. And I thought that he just showed flashes as being ready to fit into the lineup right away. Jang I was a little bit disappointed with in summer league. He was kind of taughted as this like excellent passer and ball handler, and he didn't really get to he wouldn't really show me that in summer league. And with all the people that are handling the ball on this Thunder roster right now, I just don't know if he's going to have a space for him to be able to kind of show off those skills. And that's kind of unfortunate just with the number of guards that we have on our roster right now. And then Jay Lynn Williams, which is Jay will with an Eye from Arkansas. He first of all, his like smile just like makes up makes my whole day, Like he just immediately makes me feel good about basketball even if we're losing, just because he saws I batched the energy. I think he's gonna he's gonna work really hard. I think he kind of has like a kem Ridge Williams vibe where he might not start out, you know, at the top, but he's willing to put in the work and you know, show the team that he will work hard to do well. And so of those three, to me, jaydub is the one that shows the most readiness to be put into the lineup in the ten man lineup, not to start probably, but in the ten man roster, I think he's most ready to be there. In my opinion, I'd probably agree with you based on what happened in Summer League and to your point about Jay will I can kind of see the Chemist Williams comp where he's just kind of there's the element of like I don't need to score, Like I'll just defend and I'll keep the ball moving. Yeah, And I'm just basing this off summer League. I didn't watch him at school exactly, and just like a pure willingness to learn and to want to get better. And I think he'll fit really well with you know, the new shooting coaches and just you know, our whole coaching staff really Foster's thought in players, and so I think he'll fit in really well. And I'm hoping that, you know, towards the end of the season Phillip more of a role. But I think as far as right now, going with Jadub is Jadub. Also who your highest on long term, because I think mine is Jang. I'm in love with I'm in love with Jang. I'm not gonna lie I. Just like I said, he is a great ball handler and a passer. But is he going to get to do that in Oklahoma City with Shay and Giddy and Trey Mann and all these other people that handle the ball more than he will. Yeah, I'm excited to see him work with Chip England because I feel like he if he becomes like sort of an off ball spacer, that would be a nice little role for him as well. And then, like you already said, with the ball moving and the ball handling, there's also just a lot of sort of positional malluability on defense. And I like that the Thunder like went after him and just decided, like, first of all, he's definitely a Thunder player when you look at him. But I was excited about him even before he went to OKAC. Someone I'm also excited about. And I don't know if you know this, but I am like a pok who apologist. I am convinced that there's a good Oh, I'm convinced there's a good NBA player in there. Do you think he gets a chance at bigger time minutes? With Chet injured? Do you think he doesn't make the roster? At this point, you're putting, you're holding up the X, and now I'm concerned. I'm concerned. I'm just saying if it was my team, he would have been he would have been out like two chances ago. Here's my problem with Poku. Just broke my heart. I'm sorry, and maybe I broke a lot of people's hearts. Okay, So going into this draft, everyone I was like, why would you draft Shut? He's literally exactly the same as Poku. And I'm like, okay, yes, they're both very tall and they're both very thin, but the comparisons literally is stopped there, like I have nothing else in common. So getting Shut just obliviates the need for Poku. And I understand the season, we don't have huts, so it's a little bit of a different situation. But my biggest issue with Poku is it's been like two years and he still doesn't have consistency. You'll have one game and like every seven games where he might get like six or seven rebounds, or you know, he'll might have like a good defensive play or something like that, and I just that's not going to cut it. Like I need some more consistency. And it's it's a complaint that I have with the more than one Thunder player, but with Poku, it's just I haven't seen the growth. I haven't seen you know, what we were promised what we got Poku, that he was just going to be the sec young, prolific guy. He's still pretty young, so I don't know, but I'm kind of out on Poku, especially with all these new people coming in, Like this roster has so many people that are all going to be fighting for spots on this roster, for spots in the in the on the bench lineup, and I just think that, like someone like Jay Will is going to outwork him, and you know that's just how I feel. Pain hashtag pain. I will say. Whenever he re entered the rotation last year is like February. At some point I thought he was less prolific in a good way, where it felt like he was playing very much within the larger context of the thunder. Looking at some of his offensive movements and then even some of like his defensive help. I totally understand the consistency issues, and I think part of the appeal of polk Who is that this is someone who you theoretically want, will not want, but should be able to put the ball in his hands and see what happens. But I feel like you very rarely are going to like the outcome or what happens. But I was, I guess impressed with his capacity and maybe willingness to fit in to like the bigger ecosystem. You know, it was like only for however many games it was when he re entered the rotation, But I clung to that and didn't let go for dear life. So basically the selling point for Poco is he's better when he does less. I can maybe get bored on bored with that. It's what is that forgetting Sarah Marshall, is that like do less, do less, you're doing too much? Like that needs Sometimes he does do too much. Sometimes he thinks he's Lebron and I'm like, bro, you need a chill. But I also love that I will. That type of confidence endears him to me, which is also part of why I love polk Wu is like the downs like the downside is like I almost appreciate it a lot of the time, but the inconsistency I totally could get is frustrating. It's frustrating. I did tell you before we start this podcast, I had like eighty questions with this team to the point that I had to cut it down try and luke players together. So what better way than to do that? Right now? What's of these three rotation standouts from the end of last year are you most interested to watch moving forward in V Kraichi, Aaron Wiggins and Trey Man. Of those three, I probably say trey Man. I think he had is in a good position to be the backup point guard and to run the second unit if like Josh Kiddy is not playing with them. I think Traman to me, he has the best, the most upside. I think I think he showed a lot of flashes of different things that he can do. His ability to handle the ball, his ability to run the floor. I saw that a lot last year. He's also a pretty good shooter, shoots a lot threes. We like that, especially in the bench unit, because I think in that second unit it's gonna be really chaotic. I don't think there's going to be a lot of shooting. I don't think there's going to be a lot of like really a system for them to play, and it's gonna be kind of more like individual people, especially because they're going to be switching people in and that about line up so often. And I feel like Treyman kind of fits in that better than the other two. I know Kraichi did and the season pretty well, but then know Trey Man on that one. I think you're probably right. But when I watched like Aaron wigg And, like, I know he's not necessarily the greatest finisher, but his ability to generate rim pressure through tight spaces just left me intrigued, and so I think I might pick him. Well, yeah, I think this. You know, this all everything we just talked about with Poku, these three steps on the toes was as we record this. Yeah, the Thunder have eighteen players under contract for next season. Sixteen of whom are now those players are guaranteed, and I think two of the other ones I think it's Wiggins and Crazy are the ones that are not guaranteed, and so they're not just no brainer, Oh get rid of them. Yeah, if you had to pick roster spot casualties at this point, I think Derrick Favors, whether you move him or just wave him at this point is one, right, but the other two. So yeah, Derrick Favors. Obviously he didn't fit with the plan at all last year. He really doesn't fit with the plan now that shuts out, Well maybe okay, he really didn't fit with the plan when Chat was in. That would be like one hundred percent way of him. Trade him whatever. Now without shut we are like down a big man. But I don't think that Derrick Favors is the person to fill that spot. So I'll give you that Scott makes more sense than him. If you're gonna play with Giddy too, right, yeah, exactly, Yeah, I agree, And so their favors. I think Tale Maladon unfortunately his days are numbered. I think that there's just once first of all, there's just their plus of guards too. I think trait Man is better at backup point guard position, the Taale maladon Is. I think that he still has trade value. I think that other teams might be interested in him, so he might be a player that we might be able to move for something in return. I don't think he's worthless, but I just don't think that he fits. And where the thunder are right now? So we're at Taloe Derrick Favors, and who is the other one is at Poku is That's just what right now? It was my choice maybe, but it's not my choice, and I think, you know, they risk a lot on getting pocused and they're ready to give up just yet. But if I had to choose, I feel like it always just like Wiggins Kracy. I don't know, maybe I pick Crecy, but I feel like people are kind of high on him after the end of last year, So I don't know. Those are probably like the only two players that you could reasonably boil down to after Favors and Toyo, though, like you're not just I mean, I've I've entertained. I will say this, I don't have a specific question on him because I have no idea what the fuck he's supposed to be anymore. I thought he played well defensively last year. Yeah, I have zero feel for what Darry's basically is supposed to be on offense, and so I've wondered if they are He's someone they would sell low on, if not just get rid of Darius Baisley. That's another person that I'm struggling to keep rooting for. When Darius Basley's first and Thunder, I was the Biggs Darius Basley fan and the whole thunder verse like could not get enough but so excited, loved him as like a player, as a person, as just like an opportunity that was great for the Thunder, but he also really struggled with consistency and just from season to season, you just keep waiting for him to, you know, reach that next level, and he kind of hasn't. Like he had a really good uh ended the season in the bubble, and then he kind of just tapered off again and he got injured at the end of last season. So uh, I don't know. I actually don't even know if he like if if he's going to be back for the beginning of the season. I think he will. He had like a tipial plateau fracture, but I haven't really heard anything about it since it happened, so I'm really with him. I would prefer both Kreagi and what against to him at this point, it would be I think it'd be Baseley, Teyo and Derek Favors would be the three that I would pick. Interesting, interesting poke who's untouchable of course, Yeah, I think I think that for the same reason that I can't pick Poku, just like the team is invested a lot in him and like are putting a lot on him, you know, being a valuable part of the team. Kind of feel the same way about Darius Baseley. So I think maybe one of the newer guys. But yeah, it's it's gonna be interesting to see what they do. I would argue there wasn't too much clarity on what the thunders and I don't even like asking questions about starting figs because they don't have something matter. But the thunder is interesting because I feel like there are two spots. Yeah, they are guaranteed, and then the rest are not. Following Chet's injury, so I guess three because Sga Gideon Door, So you have three. What's the what's the front line of the starting five right now? There's so many people you can put at the four, and like one person that can like really truly play center, like if you want like a true position full basketball, I guess you have to start Mike Muscala, but that's not gonna happen. So I feel like I would pick Jeremiah Earl, Robinson, Yeah, Robinson Earl to play the four oh five. I don't know, See it's like flexible. Maybe Healy plays the five. Let's see who else could you slot in there. I thought about ken Ridge at the four, but I feel like they very much wanted to come off the bench. Yeah, I think he's good. I think he's good off the bench. I mean basically, if he's playing basically no Poku, no poku, no poco in my lineup. I'm sorry, but that's tricky. Yeah, it'll be an interesting question. I think ken Rich is better off the bench. He fits really well. There're Sandwich tray Man. Obviously he wouldn't be in the starting lineup. I think he just like he really that's he found his face, his spot in the bench lineup, and so I think they're definitely locks for like a thrown at ten man lineup. I think tree Man and Kenricks Williams are definitely in there. Yeah, I don't know who you play with, Earl Robinson? Would you consider I wouldn't love this front corp combination. I would just start JR E eight the five and then put like Jay Dubb at the four and then not really care about what they shooting looks like. But would you do Mscala with Jr? You could? That's the thing. It's like they're flexible. I think if they want like a bigger lineup, they could start Miscala. But I don't think that they're I don't really think that's a plan. I mean, they're paying him like nothing to be there. It seems like it's more of like a like a locker room culture veteran type presence than like our starting center. Maybe you can put favors there until they trade him or with him or whatever. Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question. This question is probably more fair and at least easier, because what do you think the ten man rotation looks like? Because you have Giddy, like the players who will you know, the ten players who will play the most on a regular basis. You have Giddy and Shay and Dort and Ken Ridge Williams are in there. I think you're also going to see Jay Dubb and Jeremiah Robinson. Earl has two names right there. So that's what are we up to? Five? Six? Look at that, I would personally throw Usman Jang, but I was gonna be curious as to what your thoughts were. Well, I definitely need to put Trey Man in there. So that makes seven. Yeah, okay, So you say, well, I mean the two other rookies. Let's talk about like, if it's you know, Jay Will and Usman Jang, I would assume it's one of them, right yeah, And it's probably it's probably Jang in that second lineup. It's probably him in that group, especially just like his position and his role, I think he probably fits in better. And then Mascala if he's not starting, that'd be nine. And so Jay Will Poku, I guess you're putting Jay Will over Poku in there, or there's you know, there's pray g there's a Wiggins, maybe Darius Basley. I keep forgetting he exists. I think that's probably it. So there's no room for Poku. There's no room in the end Poku. There's room for Poku. You just refuse to make it okay. Well it's either okay, so okay. So you have to choose between Mascala and Baseley and Jingg and Poku. So like, what do you get two of those guys are just one? You can pick two. I go Poku and Jang. I wouldn't even like again, Darius Basley, I'm just out on So maybe I'm just too low, okay, especially for what this to needs offensively at this point. So it's an easy decision for me. I imagine Mark k doesn't feel the same. What's that offensively? Like I said, there was like times where he knew how to get to the corners last year when he came back in the rotation, I do like the do you remember when he dribbled it off his foot? I mean, who hasn't dribbled it off their foot before? Though? And just like they do kind of need could you you could even he's too he just doesn't have the frame to do it. But just like there are some really funky lineups you could run with him on the front line. I just don't know offensively, I don't think Basley provides the same level versus so like maybe you trust basically with the ball in his hands more. But I feel like the outcomes are often going to be like just as poor. Yeah, maybe it's bad either way, and it's just a question of which one is less. But I'm gonna I'm gonna stick with Baisley and I'm gonna be out on Poku and you can go to the opposite and we'll see what they do either way. My brain is bending over here. I wrote that in the outline I send you when I was trying to talk myself. It's difficult, and then you like start to figure it out, and then you're like, oh shoot, I forgot about this other extremely imported player that I forgot was on the team. It's gonna be chaotic, that's for sure. And it's I think they're gonna run through a lot of lineups throughout the entire season. They're gonna switch people in and out, especially these rookies, just to see, you know, what can you do, who do you fit well with, what's your best like position, what do you bring to the team. So I think, you know, honestly, they could probably spend half the season on two different lines, two different starting lineups, and then it's like six different iterations of the bench. Honestly, they should run like an all sophomore and rookie lineup, which just like Giddy Jr. E and then like the three healthy rookies and just just see what happens. Yeah, you ask me for my my quirky, funky lineup up and has nothing to do with the actual players, But I think they should do Josh Jalen, Jalen, Ty Jerome. We haven't talked about Ty Jerome at all, who's on Thunder and in another Jay Jeremiah, and just to confuse the heck out of the announcers, try to like talk about the players with five people that I'll start with Jay and two of them on the same name. I would absolutely love them to try that. I mean I feel like they're like probably obligated to do that. They should be trying every single lineup. They should play the Jalen's together as much as possible. In my opinion, I would probably go and I don't think they would ever try this. I'd probably go with Shay Jr. Poku. You know who's going to be in there, Jang and Kendrick Williams was was mine And it's like you're you're essentially point guardless, even though Shay is he's a primary playmaker. I just love the chaos element that I think could form from that lineup. Interesting to see where that where the offense would come from with that lineup a little defense heavy, but just gonna let Sha go out there and shoot all the shots. Yeah, I mean yeah, you'd have to convince Jang needs to be more aggressive and Kenrick Williams doesn't like scoring for himself, Poku is willing to take more shots. Yeah. So what do you when you look at this team, what is their single biggest weakness to you that would most concern you leading into next season. I think it's two things. I think they definitely have an issue with shooting, and I think they're like a handful of people that can shoot consistently, consistently, people that can create shots for themselves. But I also think a huge challenge for this team is going to be They've got a lot of individually talented people and finding a way for those people to work together in a unit, especially when that unit is constantly changing with people switching in and out of the lineup all season long. That I think it's going to be really challenging for them. To kind of create an offense or a system, like an identity. With that many switches happening in the season, do you think they're at the point where they would look mid season if opportunities arrived to make the roster better fitting on paper and in practice, or is this still very much like the most splashy transactions we're going to see. Is them like winnowing down the roster at this point before the season and they're very much gonna, you know, leave it where it lies, or maybe we get like the net the next Kragi like towards the end of next season. Yeah, I think whittling down the roster to start, then trying out a lot of different players, a lot of different combinations to see what we have that already fits well together. And then maybe after that, you know, we might see basically getting traded. We might see some of these lesser pieces like Tail Maldon if he doesn't if he's not on the roster, if he's still on the roster, he might get traded. Maybe even Ty Jerome, who was just talked about it's kind of like a random person that doesn't really have full I didn't remember guys that have like wiggled to their game and I forgot that he existed as well. He had he had to get end to the season last year. But yeah, like I said this, this this roster is so guard heavy. It's just it's going to be kind of like, honestly like varsity basketball tryout. It's trying to get at a spot on this roster and on this team going forward. So they feel like they need to figure that out first. People feel like thing to figure out what they have first before they start trying to make moves to you know, make that better or support that. It's also just I don't really know if that's really on their priority list because obviously the objective of the season is not, you know, to win a whole bunch of games, and maybe they'll just kind of, you know, see what they have and wait it out until check comes back. Another line of question I have for you, though, is let's assume that they're trying to win a game and we're in crunch time. What do you and this will be matchup dependent this for everyone to some extent, what would be your go to crunch time unit for this team. I think that's same starting lineup that we set up Giddy, Sga, Dort, Jerry, and unknown player maybe maybe Jada. I think that he could he could be a good closer. I think he's like, uh, flashy and aggressive enough to be someone that you would want in the closing minutes of the game. He could shoot while he cuts the basket. He can you know, catch you know, some of those crafty passes from Josh Giddy. So yeah, maybe I'll go with that. I'll go with Jerry Jadab, George s Giddy. And I'll also say this is ten gentially related. I feel like people harp on that Memphis game from last year too much, and I was on the mind you absolutely thrash the thunder for that game, but like, let's not lose the plot here, and they like ended up being fourteenth in points lout per possession through like like until like February first or February something whatever. I last checked it. Outside garbage time, this is a team that might actually because on paper they are built to maybe not be super disciplined on defense, but like they're built to disrupt on defense, and so they could find themselves an example of close games. Yeah, if there's one thing that I've learned over the past like three or four seasons is no matter who is on this team, you can never count them out to be gritty to win a game. Even whenever they had Chris Paul, people were like, there's no chances team is gonna make the playoffs. And they did and they were great, and they almost made it to the second round. And it's just like they have, uh, just kind of an unexpected way of like pulling you know, something out of these players that other people have passed over, whether it's Flue Door or ken Rack Williams. And I think that is something that teams don't expect, they don't prepare for when they played the Thunder, and so they could very well if they tried their artists, you know, when you know twenty five twenty eight games. But I just why is I guess the real question, why would you want to thank you for making the segue perfection for me? They're over under said at twenty three point five, which, if you're interested, is higher than last year, which is twenty one point five. And if you're interested in knowing what we predicted, I went under, you went over. You were correct, I was wrong. Probably a pretty common theme on this podcast. At twenty three point five this year. Are you're taking the over the under on that? Yeah? So I believe last year they won twenty four games, and that of them like third worst in the league, maybe fourth worst. I'm gonna take the over, but not by much. I think they'll win twenty four. The West is brutal, and I'm gonna take the over because I'm done down like this. Maybe this is the year that like Shay is in the lineup to finish the season. That's enough for me book at twenty five. My follow up question there would just be, like, do you think though that there's especially since this Chet injury, that there's a pretty substantial likelihood they kind of go about their business the way they have the past few years, where guys are getting shut down towards the end of the year, and like they have all these different flyers in the rotation when we're talking about late March early April. Yeah, I hope not. But I also I think that kind of lends to how they're better than people think they are. So they want twenty four games the last season, and that's after they basically shut down everyone the last like month and a half of the season. So imagine if those people had played through the entire season. I'm not saying we're going to make the playoffs or anything, but you know, that's a that's like an average, an app like middle of the bottom team. And so I think if if those players do play the entire season, that's why I'm taking the over. I hope they don't do that, though, because I feel like it's kind of a disservice to some of our players like Sga and Dort, who are just you know, they have I just feel bad, you know, benching them for the season because we're trying to lose on purpose. I know it's part of what you have to do, but I don't also don't think that they're like gutting for the number one pick. Maybe they are, I don't think they are. I think they're kind of just gonna be happy with chet and just try to write out the season and see what they can get. Maybe they'll get someone around like six, like that's where they got Josh Giddy. They don't think they necessarily have to be the worst in the NBA, and look, they could just technically still be organically bad if you play Shay and getting indoored a bunch and you're just invested in the development of literally everyone else and giving them a runway. And also, I will say there's like a I would probably maybe consider moving to Oklahoma City if they end up with both Wemban Yama and Chad home grin next season. That in the hardware knock discord, that's become like a like just a theory, like, oh, imagine those two on the same team that happens, I might actually collapse. Yeah, I think we use stuff like all the luck that we get for this entire decade. I'm getting the number of two pack I and I think a lot of people think that we're cursed. And so when we got the number two pick, we got them number six pick, we got Josh Giddy. I was like, yeah, this this checks out. This is yeah, right on brand. When we got too I was like, oh, shoot, like this is it. And then then we got cursed again. So you never know. But I think we're cursed honestly, So I wouldn't I wouldn't bet on it, but it'd be nice. It would be nice. Is there anything or anyone about or on this team I didn't ask you about that you think needs to be covered by Jerome should have been the focus of the entire podcast. I'm just kidding. I feel like we had. We didn't talk about Dort's new contract. Do you feel like you said that last year, because you definitely did, because I did not, not as new contract specifically, but we didn't talk about lou Dor in the podcast. Yeah. Please, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I think people were they always overreact to the initial dollar amount the terms, even if you took the terms at face value. I think it was what is he twenty one? Like he's still super young, and then you hear the terms and it's like even somehow more team friendly than it was. So I thought people overreacted to that deal. I think so too. I think people are always aghast when the Thunder invests in things that they that they like, and they're just I don't know, like, whenever the Thunder retired Nick Collison's jersey, the whole internet was on fire over this. You're like, how are you going to retire to the jersey of this guy that like played like five minutes in his last like four seasons with the Thunder and all the stuff, And it's just like the Thunder are going to do with Thunder are going to do and if they see something they like, if they see something that is good for the culture, for our wins, for for that player. They care a lot about their players. They make a really big point of, you know, taking care of their players that want to be there, and if they do, they're gonna do that, and it's not they don't really care what other people are going to say about it. I think it's a great deal. I think that Ludoor is one of the most underrated players in the NBA currently. I think that his defense is exceptional. I think that he should be in the conversation for an all defensive team. I think that he if he played on the team that was in playoff contention, I think that he would be he would be an integral part of that team. And I think that if he went to another team like the MAVs or someone, I think he could have a really important role on another team. And so I'm really happy with where we got him at. I think he's really happy to be staying in Oklahoma City, so I think it's great. I wish that we also had chat and we weren't like losing kind of the year of blue Doort Steel kind of wasting time again, but that's okay. They'll do quite he might be I know that. I'm not sure if I even ask you this, but maybe your pick was giddy and a lot of people's pick is giddy. I think I'm most excited to say, like, what could lu Dort be as a shooter with Chip England? And okay, just because we know the volume for lue Dort is already there. Yes, absolutely, the volume is there. The confidence is there. It's not afraid to put up eight threes in the game and miss half of them, and that's okay, but you need you know, you miss one hundred percent of the shots that you don't take, So you need someone who's willing to put it up there, to believe in themselves to do that kind of stuff. And we've seen him also on the other end of that, to put up eight threes and make all eight of them, you know, So it just depends. But yeah, I'd like to see how he changes. We made it almost the entire podcast without my dogs making a guest appearance. Olivia, thank you so much for agreeing to come back on. Are you able to tell our listeners where they can find your thoughts on the Thunder and basketball in general. Yes, I'm on Twitter at Olivia NBA. I mostly post my musings about basketball culture, basketball, Who's dating Who? A lot elson Thunder in there, especially when the season starts again, random things. But yeah, I don't post as much as I as I used to, as I like to. But yeah, give me a follow if he likes some good funny basketball content. So, who's dating who? I don't know what I've seen that? Can you? Can you give me one one couple that I don't know about when it comes to who's dating who? Who's dating who? One couple? Ooh, I'd put me on the spot there. I don't have one off the bat that I have been following all of this Chloe Kardashian Tristan Thompson drama, which is just the whole whole saga with their with their surrogate baby about was just born and Trisa Thompson being off and wherever while his surrogate was giving earth. Starting to get me started on Tristan Thompson your person, I will not get you started. Trisan Thompson, thank you so much again for hopping on and I hope that you agree to allow me to pessure you again in the future, I would be happy to come back. Thank you for having me again. Thunder up