WEBVTT

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Now one of your pudding. I
got a string going on here, something

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just cause my dog. Something killed
your dog? My dog. We're flying

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through the or over the tree.
I don't know how it did it,

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Okay, Damn, I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming

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over the fence and he was dead. And once you hit the ground like,

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I didn't see any cars. All
I saw was my dog coming over

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the fence. Happen. What are
you putting? We got some wonder or

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something crawling around out here? Did
you see what it was? Or was

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it was? Standing enough? I'm
out here looking through the window now and

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I don't see anything. I don't
want to go outside. Jesus, Quice,

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you better hello, get thebody out
here, Quen, I'm out there.

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It's thought of a bit of about
tex forty nine. I don't know.

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Easy Ann out there. Yeah,
I'm booking right, Heady. He

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didn't think so much for joining me
for the show. This week is a

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little bit different because I wanted to
share with you guys something. It's actually

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a planning session that Wayne and I
did with Emma over in the UK.

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She is a psychologist and she's been
in the business for over thirty years,

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and she's going to help us do
something that we've talked about many times on

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the show is address the mental health
part of what happens when somebody sees a

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Sasquatch and what are some of the
mental health issues that may cause people to

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make up stories or embellish their own
stories. I have been looking for a

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way to address this issue for quite
some time because I want to do it

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in a very respectful way, and
I don't want anybody to think that we're

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calling anybody crazy. That is not
the case at all. But I do

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think it's something that we have to
talk about if we're being intellectually honest and

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we want to be serious about this
research. It's definitely something that we need

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to address, and I talk a
little bit about it in my new book

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Sasquatch Unleashed The Truth Behind the Legend
that should be out early twenty twenty four.

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What you're about to hear is a
discussion that Wayne and I had with

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Emma a few days ago about this
live show that we're going to do,

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hopefully sometime before the end of the
year, and we certainly want your feedback

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on this, so please send me
an email Brian at Paranormal World Productions dot

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com, or you can head over
to the website and hit that leave us

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a voicemail button and you can talk
directly into that for five minutes at a

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time and let us know what you
think about this subject. If there's any

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particular area that you want us to
focus on during this live show, let

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us know in that voicemail. Or
you can call eight too eight three nine

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four nine one nine one and leave
a voicemail there, or you can text

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that number if you feel more comfortable
texting. Whatever your question, comment concern

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is, we would love to hear
from you, and make sure you stick

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around towards the end of this because
Emma actually had some experiences with what she

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believes to be Sasquatch over in the
UK herself, and she tells a little

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bit about that story, so make
sure you stick around for that. But

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for now, let's get into this
session that we had with Emma, Wayne

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and myself just a few days ago. Sociology, for example, the psychology

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is all about a numbers game.
Are you with the normal distribution curve?

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In psychology? Statistics applied because of
something called the normal distribution curve? So

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what that claims is that if you
were to go a hant and it's tailing

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off to the end, so all
the people in the middle are the masses,

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and then you have outliers, and
on the outliers, you're always going

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to have some people, statistically speaking, who will have mental health issues.

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But the vast majority of people,
just by a numbers game, who are

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in the middle, who are having
cycings, can't all be mentally ill,

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they can't all have anxiety, they
can't all have psychological disorders. Just statistically

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wouldn't happen. So every single person's
ever claim to see Bigfoot, they just

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wouldn't all be lying. Statistically,
just wouldn't happen. And that's the strength

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within psychology. So in terms of
presenting it to people I've seen orbs,

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I'm very empathic in terms of my
belief system. I am a trained psychologist,

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but I'm also quite intuitive and I'm
quite open to lots of other explanations,

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So I think that would come across
in how I am, but just

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it would be completely not acceptable within
true psychology for every single person who's ever

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reported a counter to be under a
false belief, that would be unlikely statistically

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to be the case of that.
Does that make sense? Absolutely? And

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I think that's a great point to
lead with in whatever we decided to do

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or how will we decide to handle
the show, is to talk about it

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in that way and let everybody know
on Front Street, hey, we're not

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saying everybody's crazy. We're saying the
majority of the people are telling the tr

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the truth. We believe the encounters. But here's what we really need to

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hone in on, and we really
want to take a serious look at the

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outliers. And then we go into
maybe and again I defer to you on

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this. My belief is this.
One of the things I did in the

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book I just finished, is talk
about some of the things, for example,

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with hoaxers, the personality traits that
precondition people to do certain things like

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hoaxing and making up stories and things
like that. And I think that sort

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of ties in with people who make
up stories about Bigfoot. They have to

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have some of those same sort of
characteristics. So if we can talk in

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very specific mental health terminology about those
characteristics, what they look like, and

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how those people are outliers, and
then go into some more detail about not

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just hoaxing, but the people who
make up the stories, why they do

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what they do, what would cause
them to do that, And then maybe

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talk a little bit about not just
making it up, but that other category

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that I've talked about and I talk
about it in the book as well,

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those people who experience things that happen
in their brain, right, so they're

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having delusions, not necessarily schizophrenia,
I think there's an outdated term, but

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talk about possibly what people would relate
to a schizophrenia, having delusions, those

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kind of things. I even want
to talk about a little bit, if

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you're comfortable, maybe social contagion.
Some of the other things I talk about

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of the book mass hallucinations, because
that's something that the skeptics tend to go

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to is, oh, it's just
a mass hallucination. Everybody who's seen a

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Bigfoot is just got Bigfoot on the
brain because they watched Harry and the Henderson's

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and they want to be a part
of the big Boys club, so they

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make up stories about seeing Bigfoot.
And then I would like to even talk

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about some of the negative impacts for
people doing those kind of things, right,

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like what do they have to lose? What are the impacts in society,

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their peers and people in the Bigfoot
community if they're found out those kind

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of things. I know I'm throwing
a lot out there, but I've had

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this on my brain for so long, and I think it's such an important

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thing to talk about. I want
to make sure we cover all the bases.

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And if there's anything that I haven't
mentioned that you think is important that

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we've talked about, or we haven't
talked about that you're anxious to cover while

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we're doing the subject. Yeah,
there are a couple of things. The

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biggest thing for me that really just
gets me going and just pisses me off.

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And and Brian feels the same way
as the red circles the paradoia.

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These people get plan to see something
in the woodline or in these bushes or

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these shadows, and then they always
have the same response, You just can't

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see it. You can't see it
like I see it. Is there a

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way that is correct? Is it
possible that they are seeing something that is

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there and I just can't see it. I don't understand that. That's a

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really good point too. Yeah,
just come back at one second, just

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going back to picking up on what
Brian was talking about, there were so

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many ways that this can be locked
at, and so many different psychological theories

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can be pulled in. I just
put a couple of notes, but this

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could be really explored. And again
going back to the benefit of psychology,

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it looks for patterns. So,
for example, if you're claiming mass hallucination

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about Bigfoot, and you should be
able to compare it to other phenomena and

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see if it's the same. If
it's not the same from a psychological scientific

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point of view, then you should
be able to use some kind of testing

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methodology to get some kind of statistical
significance. I think I've said it ages

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ago in one of the emails to
you. So even though we might not

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be to get evidence about Bigfoot per
se, there are still scientific approaches you

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can take by comparing population samples.
Are there certain traits for people who believe

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in Bigfoot compared to I don't know, just off the top of my head

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people believe in unicorns, for example, And if you can identify clear differences,

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then the hypothesis is just mass hallucination
becomes very shaky because it should apply

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across all mythical creatures. But again
you can't guess. You'd have to actually

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do the research. So there's topics
such as what we call themastic analysis,

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where you take the transcripts of witness
accounts and you look for actual patterns in

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what they're saying. And then again, if you were to compare it to

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people who you knew were lying,
you ask them just to make up a

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narrative, you should be able to
have qualitative differences between that because you've got

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a police background yourself, so you
know yourself when you're interviewing people that there

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are traits of people who are lying
compared to people who tell them the truth.

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So even though you can't prove per
se that the person's seeing it,

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you can prove that there are statistical
differences between a group who are known to

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be lying, and that has scientific
value in its own right. So that

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I just wanted to pick up that
point. Now if I up over to

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Wayne's point. Now, again,
there's lots Psychology is such a blanket subject.

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There's loads of different theories and approaches. You've got psychology, more biological,

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neurological, abnormal, what they used
to call abnormal psychology, et cetera,

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et cetera. So there's different perspectives
that could be touched upon to explain

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why blob squatches appear to some people
and not the others. So one of

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them is in the email ager center
of the concept of confirmation. Bias from

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babies were tuned with programmed that human
brings program to see faces and things of

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small age and confirmation about biases where
you have a belief and your brain actively

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filters information that you want to confirm
your belief and filters out information that you

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don't, and it's one of the
strongest findings in all of psychology. So

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if you've got somebody who actually doesn't
believe the Bigfoot exists at all, they

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are going to just focus on trees
and the shadows and that's all that their

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brain will active. In other way
where you can have a visual illusion and

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somebody will see this the old lady, and somebody will see this as the

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young beautiful woman or is it a
deck or is it a rabbit, et

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cetera. It's the same image,
the same actual image in front of people,

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but depending on the way that the
brain filters things, don't see one

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or the other. So that's one
that it relates to what they call the

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German concept of guest start, where
people see figure ground kind of patterns and

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shapes. So there's many different types
of theories of psychology that I could pull

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apart and focus and relate to it. But one of the biggest ones is

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confirmation bias really ingrained in people that
we are hardwired to to prove what we

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believe. Is it like an ego
defense? Am I answering your question?

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Or can I put in a different
way? Or no? That makes perfect

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sense? It really does. Yes, it's scary, but people definitely need

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to hear this, and that's something
I talk about a lot of this in

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my book, and I clearly have
no background in psychology. I don't have

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a degree in psychology, so it's
very difficult for me to do. I

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think I did a good job and
putting it in Layman's terms in the book

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for people like me who will pick
it up and talk about confirmation bias and

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what that looks like in the Bigfoot
community. But I think at large,

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we need to have this conversation on
a bigger scale on a show like this

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where people will actually listen. Tens
of thousands of people will listen to it

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and go, oh, that kind
of makes sense. So Leilanie, what

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they want to believe. Even when
they hear me say it, it's exactly

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right, Wayne and I say it
all the time. It doesn't matter how

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great of a show we produce or
what we talk about on the show.

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People literally will listen to a show
that we just did, send us an

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email or make a nasty comment and
say something that was totally the opposite of

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what happened in the show. They
hear exactly what they want to hear.

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We text back and forth all the
time, and I'll send them something and

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waye to go. People hear exactly
what they want to hear. Yeah,

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I'll just jump. It comes from
the concept of what we call being a

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cognitive miser. The human brain is
very hardwired to make habitual decisions all the

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time. We have to put effort
into thinking outside the box, and we

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don't invest a lot of energy in
doing that, and especially we live in

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quite cushy worlds, don't we sasquatch
doesn't. They're on high alert because their

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life depends on it. We're not
on higher alert in that kind of way.

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So it's a content of what we
call being a cognitive miser. We're

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lazy, so we habitually just confirm
what we already know, unless there's enough

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what we call cognitive dissonance to make
you think differently. Yeah, that's definitely

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what it boils down to you.
So I guess the thing Wayne and I

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were talking before you came on,
and I don't know how you feel about

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this, and we can certainly suss
it out between the three of us and

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make a decision. I think this
would make a great live show for people

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to be able to interact, call
in and ask questions and share their opinions

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and thoughts. We had a good
time doing it a couple of thursdays ago.

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It was, of course a lighthearted
show and we weren't talking about mental

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health and those kind of things.
But I think people are interested in it

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enough, and we found it with
that Bigfoot podcast. So far, with

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some of the episodes that we've done, in some of the things we've covered,

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people are hungry I think for this
kind of information. We talk about

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people who are clearly making up their
stories or they're hoaxing things, and listeners

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reach out to us and say,
I'm so glad that you're talking about this

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because nobody else is talking about it. I think this is something that falls

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in that category. I don't think
a whole lot of people are talking about

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mental health just in general. We
could even throw in there some of the

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maybe the PTSD stuff that comes along
with people who have had what they believe

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to be an encounter with sasquatch.
I think that would be something on the

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back end to throw in for people, because we see that, at least

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I do a lot of times,
and some of the people who have had

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these encounters, and I know Wain
can probably say the same. These people

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go through a lot of emotions,
whether their experience was real or perceived,

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they sty'll have the consequences happen after
they have this alleged encounter with what they

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believe to be a sasquad. So
I think maybe even that's something we can

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talk a little bit about as well. I don't know, how do you

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feel about doing a live show.
I talk every day and day. I've

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just students through a living so I'm
quite really confident. I'm pretty interested in

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the PTSD aspect. So I've been
a psychologist is my early twenties, so

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thirty years of psychology, and I've
always been interested in Bigfoot from a small

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child. But what really influences me. Really is hearing the trauma in the

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witnesses voices. I know as a
psychologist, and I've heard you say on

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the shows how hard it is to
actually take emotions. It's really hard to

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do, to genuinely have that wobbling
your voice. As you probably know,

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an olympic system is kicking in the
rational part of the brain is going offline.

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Now, the olympic system doesn't have
imagination, So a trauma times person

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is very unlikely to be coming up
with a very elaborate story because it's not

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in that part of the brain.
So a traumatized person who's had this encounter

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with something which is completely terrifying outside
cause them cognitive dissonance. They can't conceptualize

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it. They really can't get their
heads around it. It comes across just

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in their voice. Obviously, most
of what I'm listening to a podcast,

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so it's only ordered tree you can
actually see the people and to just fake

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that fear. They're saying, I'm
sorry, I'm back there now, I'm

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reacting as if I'm there. That
is what happens in post traumatic stress.

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And as I'm saying, the imagination's
gone offline. When I do with my

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students. I work with a lot
of traumatized students. If I hold up

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my hand, you see it them
is the limbic system the brain, very

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small part. It's all world.
It's got very little ability other quite white

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and freese. And if I fall
over by hand, this is the prefrontal

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core text, the thinking part of
the brain where storytelling is imagination is So

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if you've got some use obviously coming
across as traumatized in an interview, they're

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very and very unlikely to be making
it up because that part of the brain

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befrontal cortext has gone off like it's
got separate wire in the two can't be

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engaged at the same time. Then
this is where they can give very detailed

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accounts of what they actually experience.
But anything fanciful it is not likely to

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be happening. That really interests me
as a psychologist listening in. That's the

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kind of stuff that we need to
be talking about and letting people here because

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as an offshoot here really quick,
the question has come up in my mind

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several times, and you just mentioned
it. Is it normal for a person

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who's recounting their encounter and they're having
this emotional or what appears to be an

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emotional response to being back there,
is it in your opinion in psychology,

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is it a normal thing for people
to say that out loud and go hold

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on a minute, it's like I'm
back there again, because I've interpreted that

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a couple of times from people like
it's almost maybe not real, and they're

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telling me that because they're trying to
influence me, and maybe the people that

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are listening to I'm sorry, I'm
back there now, I'm having a hard

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time that kind of thing, like
it's almost put on. So is that

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a normal thing? Obviously that they
could act it and there's nothing that say

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they're not acting it. But again
there's other things that go with the package

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of when they become limbic system dominant. Yes, it is normal. So

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what happens is when somebody's traumatized,
the michdala of the brain is flooded with

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cortisol stress hormones. So what happens
and when somebody's traumatized is they became that

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part of the brain becomes hypersensitive in
the future to adrenaline. So what that

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means, what they call that regulation. What that means is you only need

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a little bit of stresshormone to put
which you're back there. Actually Olympic system

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to hijack your brain be fredical cortext
goes off and you go limbic system.

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So all those kind of memories which
were encoded in the traumatic experience are being

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reactivated. So that person is literally
they're back in the limbic system part of

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the brain, not in the whole
brain. They're back in that part of

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the brain because it's imagine if you're
in the woods and you're going to be

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potentially murdered, your brain needs to
remember everything it can about that situation with

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the aim will stop and you've been
in that situation again. So this is

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why these memories become deeply encoded,
often associated with smells, and then they

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start to recall often that the bad
smells mentioned. So they're all back in

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that part of the brain is taken
over as a survival instinct to make you

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high per vigilant. Yeah, just
the way that people be talking like a

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good thing that you could potentially do. When you're sensing that somebody has become

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the Olympic system dominant, you could
question them in a different way because say,

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what do you feel? What you
see and what you've said. Sin.

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If you were to talk a lot
about the senses, you probably get

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quite good information. There's somebody making
it up. Would probably alter the struggle

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and stay tuned for more sasquatch otasy. We'll be right back after these messages

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or be overly one way or the
other. Probably. I feel like a

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better interviewer already, Wayne, don't
you. I'm picking up taking up where

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she's putting down. Man, I
can't tell you how excited I am.

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I wanted to tackle this subject.
Brian can tell you. We both wanted

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to tackle the subject for so long. How do you do it without insulting

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someone that we've been wanting that?
Right person, it sounds like we've got

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you. Did they come on and
explain things because you're doing a great job

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with us. I'm understanding it a
lot more. I'm excited about this,

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Yeah, it is. It is
really exciting because I've been listening to the

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podcast for such a long time and
running all these things my mind. Yeah,

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it's really exciting. But once you
start looking at people in terms of

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parts of the brain and what part
is activated instead of as a whole person,

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so to speak, I had to
do this on a daily basis.

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I'm working with trauma TAI students on
the autistic spectrum, in particular with dyslexia,

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they readily go into overwhelm or A
lot of my work is trying to

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get them to switch back to that
prefedal cortex where they can think and they

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can plan and they can reason when
they used to seeing people's parts of the

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dream rather than a person. But
that's why I hear a lot listening is

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the trauma. It's a red flag
to me when there's not true. Have

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you ever personally dealt with anyone any
of your students that have experienced something like

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what Brian and I deal with,
either cryptic or paranormal or something unusual.

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That's a really good question. Obviously
we're in the UK now, I have

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had people with more paranormal feeling.
Maybe they've had spiritual possession. Now I

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don't discount that because of my belief
system. I see everything as energy and

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different levels of energy. Myself,
I think I've had a Class B SASPAT

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encounter in Wales. Myself, I
do believe the here. I believe there

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in many places where humans just aren't
going. My friend moved to a property

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that everything's small compared to America.
Maybe an acre, but it had an

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orchard that was deserted. He hadn't
cared for the property at all. Of

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course, I'd come along all interested
in bigfoot, and I was shown the

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pictures of tree breaks, tree structures, and she's there in the woods behind.

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Have you heard a big foot?
Tony. Yeah, he's fairly local

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to hear, so he believes he's
seen had an account a couple of miles

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away from me. So in the
property where my friend was living, we

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went to the orchard and there's this
massive tree break about maybe send foot,

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and it was such a clean tree
break, and I'm looking at this think

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it could be likely, and I
suppose. And then when I went a

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couple of weeks later, they had
a bigger pen and long grass. The

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boy who is I don't know,
fifteen. You really don't believe he was

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the type to liar hoax to me, maybe eight foot long oval depressions in

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the grass overlooking the chicken pen,
two of them, And why are their

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oval depressions in the grass. There
was road works being done which ended a

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lot of undisturbed property behind my property, and I had a rabbit who's head

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was pulled off, and you think, is it a fox? Why didn't

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they take it? And then on
top of that, then it was on

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the main road. But the manglad
is next to land there was an webside

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down tree quite in large upside down
tree? Did you add the ticking?

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Am I imagining this? But again
with the bigfoot evidence, even though the

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these potentially class be things, is
this concept of circumstantial evidence, isn't it?

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At what point in the court of
law that would circumstantial evidence? I

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think in the big sub community we're
not treated like other things, like within

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the law. As you went to
law, you'd be able to prove the

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case, wouldn't you. But I
literally have a chapter in the book that

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I just finished called can We Convict
Sasquatch in a Court of Law? Just

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to lay out the different types of
evidence and talk about what real evidence is,

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how much we have circumstantial and otherwise
for the existence of bigfoots. I

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definitely think this is something we should
do. The only issue with and I'm

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thinking about it as we're talking,
the issue with doing a live show is

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the majority of the time we would
be doing a live show over here it

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is like in the middle of the
night early morning for yous. I don't

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know how we would work that out, because we'd be doing the earliest.

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I would probably say we need to
start a live show. Here would be

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seven Wayne. Would you think that's
like midnight for you? That's okay.

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I'm a big enough band to do
it. It's a mission. I think

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we just need to do it as
really flexible and really easy going. Psychology

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is such a huge topic. This
is so exciting. I'm not away of

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anyone else putting this spin on it. The psychology is still science, so

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if you can adopt some of the
research methods within psychology, it's going to

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be difficult to argue against it because
using the same method papers get published.

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That's what I would be interesting to
do as well, would be published research

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papers using some of these scientific methods, such as thematic analysis, where you're

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looking at that you might, for
example, take ten narratives from people who

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are claiming to be genuinely traumatized.
Then you ask another ten people to make

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up a traumatic story, and then
you find patterns that differ between the argaically

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true ones and that noel made up
ones, and then that could lend yourself

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to a scientific paper. Awesome,
Thank you so much. Is Mike there,

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He's not himself, he's such a
fan of yours. He just loves

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your voice. That's why I was
asking. I was going to say hello

357
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:10.799
too, if tell him I said
hello, It was great to meet you,

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man. Anything I can to happens
really important. Oh, thanks so

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much, Ema, I appreciate it. Welcome. It reminds me a lot

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of John and that way of explaining
things that makes it easier to understand the

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way she talked about if I understood
right, If you're a hardcore critic and

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Bigfoot is not real, you're never
going to convince that person that Bigfoot is

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real. If you show them a
picture of a tree line, all they're

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going to see is trees. If
you have a person that's hardcore bigfoots everywhere,

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that's all they're going to see is
a big Foot face. And I

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think most people are in the middle. Yeah, and people like us that

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are in the middle. We're not
the ardent skeptics that will never believe it.

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We want to believe it. It
goes back to what she said,

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it's confirmation bias. It's the biggest
issue in most things, ever, and

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particularly with Bigfoot, it's confirmation by
people believe what they believe, and then

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everything that happens is just a confirmation
of what they already believe, and you

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can't move them off of what they
believe, no matter what. I was

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John the whole time because I heard
him say confirmation biased. I can't tell

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00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:18.119
you how many times they say,
you don't gotta go home, but you

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can't stay. No, I don't
want to be world out it chid this

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00:27:52.759 --> 00:28:03.880
job child, everything joy for me
in still right, You come in right

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00:28:04.000 --> 00:29:06.480
away, side steps still stay standing, inside steps step still hess pssst F

378
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state plays and pst pssst USS insist