Well, good morning, Welcome to Hobby Hotline, episode two ninety eight.
And this is the addition with Victor, Chris and me having no internet this
morning. It came on literally like three minutes ago. So that was a
restart of the computer, a boot up, a load, and a get
in the room. You know what, I think it was a pretty good
job. So I to be fair, I'm sweating, I'm at a breath,
I'm like flourished, I'm nervous. So you know, we're just gonna
get through this. Guys, what's going on? How you doing? Chris?
Yeah, to be fair, it is April the twentieth, and you
know what that means? Happy Earth in everybody? Uh yeah, Happy Earth
Day. No. I wish I had a better excuse. I will a
drink of smoke, cleaning up the neighborhood. I wish I could blame it
on anything, but thank you Exfinity the problem. Yeah, Denny, Like
they say it where I work. You got to work at least one day
a week. Let me tell you something. I do a lot of shows
on this I have never had Internet down until the minute of panic. I've
had it down ten minutes before. All Right, nobody cares about my internet.
Good morning sang everybody, stoops, Mad City Brew, Philly, Joe
boll five. I love this one, Love this one. Aloha from Hawaii,
Gordon where it's five a m. First time live chatter. Nice,
Well you got up at five am, but we're here every Saturday morning.
Yep, thanks for the welcome. Good morning, Abel, good morning,
good morning chat, Good morning Steven. Oh a lot of chat already,
It's good. Yeah. Rubins has taking a break from Strongsville show to peak
in Danny. We miss you, guys. I wish I could be in
Strongsville so much. You have no idea, but you know, sometimes stuff
happens in life. I've never been there. I and I googled it yesterday
and it's only like four hours from my house, and I'm like, why
have I never gone to Strongsville? Victor? Like I was at a place
last night at about eight o'clock at night where I was I had a serious,
serious mental discussion about getting in the car. Yeah, yeah, I
would have. I could have picked you up, or we could have met
there or something. Mookie, I'm spending earthday. You can serving cards and
top loaders that you know what doing God's work. Mooki. We appreciate it.
You know, it's a hard job. Somebody's got to do it.
If Mooki's not doing and I think, well, we all want Rex.
Good morning from New Buffalo Valparaiso. You're on the big screens. I apologize.
If our faces are on the big screens, that may or may not
be helping business at the shops. But if anybody's looking for cards in that
area, sports card shop, vintage goats. Ten hour drive from me to
Strongtion, that's a drive. Even for me. It's it's six or seven,
so ten hours, you know, you might be into plane territory there.
It's the heck of a show. Though, if you're going for three
days, maybe it's worth the drive. And if you're and if you're really
buying and selling, it's probably worth the drive. But to just check it
out for the first time, good oh gosh, ten hours is a hike.
But Victor, I will tell you phenomenal vintage show. Yeah, it
used to be more of a speakeasy type of feel, you know, but
it's gotten as it's gotten out a little bit vintage goods. I also have
no money. That's another good point. YEA factor. You know what,
when you talk to dealers that comes up. That's a good one. You
can't go to Strongsville with one hundred dollars apparently, you know what you long
nineteen seventy eight common beater. Uh. They used to have a rule that
you couldn't bring in anything that was not vintage. It was a hard fast
rule, which which to me was both so something and so cool. It
was. It was, uh, like I said, it really had a
speakeasy feel to it. They moved into a new venue this year, and
uh, absolutely curious to see how that works out. Yes, this is
a book I recommend all the time, The Bubblegum card Wares. Yes,
Uh, definitely a here into the history of of of the cards and specifically
the fifties Tops Bowman battles that is worth a read. Some guy logan logan
Ward says, good morning, fellow hobby hotliners, good morning Halts. And
I think belated birthday in there also, so the belated birthday Logan. Here's
a plot twist for your internet issue there, Danny, I have no idea
what we're talking about. Oh dude, we're just winging it, folks.
This this is not a problem Victor, Victor, I can't. I have
years that I don't know what I thought. All right, just a disclaimer
before we get started. We're absolutely fine. Have you guys heard of Victor
Webber Yama? I believe so. Tall guy, Yeah, tall guy,
French. Yeah. He had a tops NFT sell for one hundred and fifty
thousand and a card sell for like a half a million. I love Wemby.
Just been drowning in my stars from watching people look at six hundred thousand
dollars cards while I look at my fifty five tops Wally Moon and Don Mossy.
Yeah, Vin, Yeah, Strongsville will humble you. Whatever your collection
is, Strongsville will humble you. Yes. What kind of ice cream do
you like? Victor? I think he's easing into the topics for you,
is what he's doing, Victor. Your ice cream A choice is oh man
oreole, Oh nice pick solid, Chris more of a peanut, butter ripple
man myself. So Victor wins. Here's so getting back to Wenby, and
I am going to keep his training on the tracks today. Wemby eventually will
put an end to the Lebron versus Goat discussion. Wow, that's a lot
of pressure on. Wow, that's a lot of pressure on around that discussion.
So Victor, let's talk rookies in the NBA. I mean, there's
a lot of pressure on this guy. I get it. But you're talking
about buying a house or buying a car. Yeah, I mean, and
and please I understand it's it's it's a limited special card. My understanding is
not auto. Chris, I don't know if you're up on this, but
my understanding is not auto. And in the Top's NFT block top shot,
his top shot is still around and somebody paid one hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
I don't know. Are there people in the hobby that are just they
see the Honus Wagner and they just think that they're in on the next one.
I mean, I don't want to knock fit. I think there is
some fomo involved here. Okay. Yeah, So in general, like Kitlyn
Clark going for a half million dollars, not a shot at Kaitlyn Clark,
A lot of money for somebody who's yet to play a game, I'm going
to say the same thing in baseball prospects. Prospecting in general, I think
runs a little out of control. So I'm using Wenby as an example,
and it's not a shot at him. But yeah, here we go six
hundred K for an M one on one nineteen sixteen, Baby Ruth in an
SGC three and a half. Wow, h slash. I want to see
an SGC, right, would you rather? There you go? Victor a
one of one by any chance? Yeahs the Shimmer one of one. Victor
has no idea what we're talking about. I'm actually dropping a video on Sunday
about But really, I think a lot of it has to do with a
couple of things. Number one is just kind of where the market is at,
right. There's a different market out there that has a different budget than
most people, and and that creates, uh, some competition with those who
have deep pockets. Uh. It's a flex purchase, right and and that's
okay. I mean there's room for them in the space, right. Uh.
But also I think it's the unicorn that Victor wiben Yama is becoming.
I've been keeping a close eye on his play, really critiquing his play.
In my opinion, the kid's the real deal, and he has a body
type and an aggression about his play that I think he's going to make an
impact on the game, and he's going to make an impact on the hobby.
And that's as of April twentieth, twenty twenty four, subject to change,
right, But the kid is impressive. Well, I'm going to put
this question at you. Then, is this too far to say? Well
he passed Lebroad and MJ. Yeah, that's too far. He's great,
he's great, he's great. Not quite that great here we are. Rex
says we sold a Wemby auto redemption early of nineteen. K. Wow.
I mean, you know what if you're running a store, nice good on
you, and this is a fair question, and this is, you know,
probably something the hobby doesn't talk about enough. I wonder how many of
these big modern card sales are real, verifiable sales. Would we be naive
to think that some of the auction houses, you know, do some of
it for marketing, or some of the sales don't get paid for on eBay?
You know, it gets shilled up. Yeah, it happened in the
hobby in the past, you know, are we naive to think it would
never happen again? So I don't know. I'm not saying that Wenby card
is the example of that or rex. That's a good point in general.
Yeah, it is a good point. But it also bears fact of the
value that card lighter provides where they actually go in depth into those kind of
purchases to verify it, those kind of sales. So yeah, really,
but Twitter does not go that far. They'll just type stuff out right away.
You gotta you gotta find. But a half million is wild for a
modern basketball card. Half million, I'm sorry, half millions wild for any
card, even if it's vintage. And I'm a vintage guy. What about
the Wemby versus Curly Neil debate. That's hysterical. Curly Neil, I have
the same number of rings. Oh is that a Homer line? You know
who Curly Neil is? Yes, Harlem Globe Trotter Trotters. Yes, well
they beat Washington General's every game. Yeah, that's true, so they're kind
of undefeated, you know. And that you're a sports cards what's going on?
Excited to see Johnnyman Syracuse show tomorrow? One time? The whole Hobby
Holline cruise should descend on Syracuse. I think I can safely say the whole
Hobby Holline crue if we ever decid. It will not be Syracuse. We
love you Syracuse. But I heard that after ten p m. Nothing's open
once Applebee's closes. So you know, that's just that's just that's just what
I heard. You guys ever been up there before? My wife went to
Ithaca, which was not But if you ever made the pilgrimage to Jefferson Burdick's
gravestone, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna pull pull out the flex
here. I'm so you your video. I did that years ago, and
you have a link to your video. I want to put that. It's
actually a two part video. I'll I'll see if I can find it.
If it's if you can find it. Uh, do you think Jackson Holly
will turn it around? Well? Speaking of high price prospects, this is
right in my backyard here, Yes, I think I'll turn it around.
They're the list of players and they went through the have had a hiccup at
the start of their career and still had good careers. I mean, is
tremendous, Victor. I mean, you know, there's probably better than anybody.
Do you can you judge a rookie's performance after two weeks? No,
definitely not. And it's just again, you know, the the hype that
we've been putting on this kid and the pressure that this kid is under is
just I mean, it's it's difficult to be that age. And some do
right, but the majority, when you look at it, when when a
kid comes up where his dad was a ballplayer, he comes up with an
enormous amount of pressure. Most of them do not really make it into the
big leagues. Now, there are some unicorns, you know, Ken Griffy
Junior obviously that that did not affect him at all. But for the majority,
man, when when you're coming in with that much pressure, it's it's
hard to surpass. Hobby loves the idea of a legacy player looking for the
next Griffy. I'll say Trout was that guy, and then looking for the
next Trout. I know everybody likes to diss on Trout's Trout the last couple
of years. Man, he's having a good season too, the guy Victor.
I gotta tell you, I think the kid's gonna have a chance.
Yeah, Crout's a pretty good ballplayer. He's coming out focused this year.
Man. Yeah, Caitlin Clark better than Wemby hobby wise, they're both exploded.
You know, Time magazine does their top one hundred people of the year.
I think if we did the hobby's top ten, you know, players
that affected cards this year, they might both make it on an unofficial list
for NBA licensed products. Wemby will have only fifty one of one on one
as he will have no autos due to his fanatics exclusive when compared with other
rookies who have base and autos. That's a good point. That's an excellent
point. We have a great chat. Doesn't that really matter though, because
you know one of one did sell without an autograph for six hundred thousand.
How much and have does that have to do with having no autographs in the
licensed product? You know? Is it like I love the one you're with,
you know, if you can't be with the one you love, love
the one you're with, you know, if you can't get that rookie auto.
It is what it is. I just put in comments. By the
way, Chris, I sure hope this is the link to the Jefferson birding
video and I to part one because I just put it up there. This
is like your vacation to the beach, you know, Yeah, I would
like to apologize. And people go to the beach, some people go to
the mountains. I go to graveyards of former collectors. Well, well,
do a little history lesson. Give me the elevator hitch for those who don't
know the history of the great Jefferson Verdick. Uh. Jefferson Burdick was probably
the greatest card collector ever lived. He lived in He worked a blue collar
job in in UH Syracuse and created and just collected cards, not just sports
cards, but also catalogued them and tried to track them. He's the guy
that came up with the numbering for certain sets, like the American Tobacco Company
baseball set from nineteen oh nine is Jefferson Burdick gave it the T two O
six name T for Tobacco two O six for, which explains why it's cards
that look alike but are not necessarily from the same set at the same time.
Rights, it's more of more of a overseeing catalog which we which we
still use to this day. Yeah, we still use the terminology. So
yeah. Anyway, So shout shout out to you for going out and paying
respects to Jefferson Verdick. A couple of great comments here able just following up,
Yes, the base rookie sold a half a million dollars. I'll phrase
it that way because we casually say five hundred thousand around heretic. Yeah,
but I can attribute that prices. He does not have an auto one on
one is an alternate option. Well, there's a great question for you,
Victor. Is there a hierarchy of rookie love Is it like you know,
auto patch then auto then then then patch then nothing you know, Yeah,
definitely, definitely, definitely there's a there's a greater demand for those who can
afford that kind of thing. I don't even bother looking anymore because it's it's
out of my budget, right, So I'm more of a base card kind
of guy with or one of the parallels. But yeah, there's a ranking.
There's a ranking between those. Sure, But I will say, and
this is where I differentiate things when it comes to our pas and that sort
of thing. A lot of us call it rookie card, but a lot
of it is really those are inserts. Those are cards, you know,
uh uh, True, rookie card is a card that is comes from the
base set, and a lot of these things are actually insert cards, and
you know, we we deem them as rookie cards. But it all depends
on what you know, lens you're looking through. But yeah, there's definitely
a higher demand for those who can afford it. Right that r P A
man, there's nothing like an r P A Right, that's the top cards
wise, that luxury, that's that's the I don't even know what the what
the top selling card is these days. We bought, we bought to used
a toy and I'd like to recommend them highly fantastic cars. And a lot
of it is these, you know, the contract issues that we're still having.
I just don't understand why this stuff doesn't get resolved or some kind of
compromise or some kind of amendment is made to to help us clear this up
so that we are doing what's right towards the hobby and not so much making
this a legal battle. You know, it's a shame, it really is,
and the collectors are the ones who are suffering the consequences unfortunately. All
right, thank you for clearing that up, because I do like the hobby
use slang a rookie card far too much in your presence. I try to
get my language correct and you don't have to man out of respect. You
work way too hard for me to throw that around casually. No pressure at
all for Jackson Holliday when you're I was sitting in the first world or two.
She give the kids some room. Yeah, just just a wife and
dad. Dad. And by the way, the woman next to the dad
was Jackson's wife. There was some confusion on this. If you saw the
video of Visit Bats, it's Matt Holliday, Jackson's wife. I don't know
her name, not that, not Jackson and his mother, not Matt and
his in Jackson's mother. There was a lot of people who did highlights who
on TV, and it's become a kind of a funny thing here in Baltimore.
Okay, all right, we're gonna blow up the chat room here,
guys. There was something with Kurt's Cardcare. I don't know if anybody heard
this week, a little bit of news that that that the Twitter and Instagram
verse had no reaction to. But we're gonna bring it up. I think
anyway. Kurt's Cardcare had some had some cards deactivated. I love that term.
It sounds so so efficient. There the certain numbers were deactivated because of
the process used to clean them, and they've made a statement basically saying that
they don't accept that type of stuff. Now this is who now see Mokie,
I'm already missing Strong as well. Next level right here, folks,
Uh, this is live live from from Cleveland. Uh. I heard Kurt's
cardcare was that Strong Will show big news on that front this way? Yes,
if Kurt was a Strong as Will, that would be crazy. I
wonder if that's a joke from MOOKI probably run them out of there on the
rail probably. Yeah, you never know, you never know. He's had
a lot of support, so you know, I don't I really don't know
where I fall in this story. The the deactivation coming before a public statement
forgetting everything else, when you know that it's going to cause this much chatter.
I don't know if that was the best way for PSA to handle the
marketing side of it. That being said, there's the whole conversation on you
know, how how we treat cards, what's what's allowed, what's not allowed?
And I put aloud in air quotes here because p s A, I
guess are the ultimate judgers on what they'll grade. But you know, in
general, what do you what do you you know, Chris, how do
you what do you feel about? You know, card cleaning? Explain,
first of all, explain what deactivating means. They took the certain number and
if you now look it up, it will say this certain number is not
valid. It has been deactivated, and it's not The card is still out
there in the slab. Yes, yes, which is why always check your
shirt numbers when you buy it a slab card. Guys, make sure it's
it's legitimate, and make sure it's not deactivated. There's your p s.
A. Oh that was a bad pun. Go ahead, Chris Kurt's cards
being deactivated because of the cleaning. Ah, I mean, I I don't
understand why you would want to get your cards clean. I think there's too
much at risk there. If if you send this card a card to this
guy Kurt right, and he winds up damaging your card even more with his
whatever he uses. I don't know how many he does that. Think it's
hard. It's either his own cards or you have to know him. I
think you know. But Victory, I know you have some thoughts. But
Chad says, I've cleaned my cards with a microfiber cloth. But that's it.
I've never used chemicals and never will victory your thoughts on this whole situation
in card cleaning in general. I guess, man, that's a loaded question,
dude. That's really I'm getting put on the stand, right hobby hotline?
Yeah yeah, Well here's the thing. I got a couple of things.
Number one, with the deactivation thing, I really questioned the source right,
and it was posted on social media by some Tiffany cards I don't know
them. I don't know, and this didn't really come from Kurt's Cardcare and
it really wasn't didn't come from PSAU and I was on a date night with
my wife last night, so I really don't I'm not up to snuff.
Is that actual fact? But I'm questioning the source. If somebody in the
chat can verify yes, PSA confirmed this or Kurt's Cardcare confirmed this, I
would be really glad to know if that's legit. But that's the first thing
I questioned. But overall this battle, that this debate that the hobby is
having with cleaning and non cleaning, and there's so many layers to this,
but I really lean on a principle that really is for let's just let me
call it what it is. It's a biblical principle, okay, and what
the way I view it is. It is hard to tell, supposedly if
a card has been doctored up by this stuff. But I'm of the opinion
that if there is no law written on it, and I guess this is
making a case for leadership that makes actual big decisions, right. But if
there is no law written on this, then it's a matter of conviction.
And each individual person is going to have their own individual conviction where I might
think it's wrong one hundred percent and I'll scream it from the mountaintops, but
other people might think that it's okay because that is their conviction on this process.
There is no law that says you shall not right. So now it's
a matter of conviction. And here's the other kick in the teeth. When
it comes to convictions. We should not be arguing about our own convictions.
There is a freedom that is given a boundary where we are allowed to have
our own personal convictions on a matter, and so we shouldn't. I shouldn't
criticize you for having your conviction, and you shouldn't be criticizing me for having
mine. And so then if that's the case, then let's make a law
on it. Right, Let's let's and and I guess who does that come
from? You know, you can't ask the hobby because in the hobby it's
subjective. It's everybody has their own opinion on the matter. You put it
on Twitter right now, you'd have one hundred answers before we were off the
air. Some people think it's a large majority of people think that it's okay,
and another large majority of the people think it's not. And so that's
where we're at. Yep. And and for full disclosure, I'm involved in
the Hobby News Daily, which has had articles and videos featuring Kurt, So
if you want to hear from him before all this happened, he's an interesting
guy to listen to, and it's I think well worth your time to see
any video that he's been a part of directly and get to know the person
before you before you judge. I mean, I've I've used spit. I
mean, but isn't that I mean, there's stomach as that's when we grew
up. We walked uphill to school. We didn't have these chemicals. We
had to do it with our own salival we had. I don't know what's
in our saliva, man, I mean we got stomach acid and all this
other food that we ate. So so let me ask an honest question to
you guys. Do you feel differently if you're doing it to a card and
then selling it versus if you bought a card and knowing that it was already
done. Does that change how you feel? Would you would you not buy
the card or do? Or does that not affect you once it's graded and
if it greades? Well, if I really really needed that card to like
there we go, that's a collector and I know that it's been you know,
doctored a little bit, I might take it knowing that it's I might
buy it knowing that it's that it's doctor. I mean, I'm probably because
it's for my own personal collection. I'm probably not even not gonna sub it
for for grading, So why not? It also depends on the price.
I mean, if I know that a card has been doctored a bit,
I better be getting a discount on that too. So well, that's a
fair point. Same thing on a trim card, I think I think that's
a that's a fair if it's labeled authentic, you know, altered or something
like that. There's already a category for that victory. I think that this
is this is the hobby reality to to uh this conversation is there is a
p s A law. You know, I'd like to see. I'd like
to see the resource. I mean if somebody the quote that they put out
and I tried to find it and could not find it last night. I
think Ryan Huge put out a quote and i'll, i'll, I will paraphrase
something to the effect of, uh, you know, we do not support
altering cards and you know, uh et cetera, et cetera, uh a
post on on social media. I mean trying to find if somebody can put
up a link or to it. I don't want to paraphrase without having the
link, and I would. I couldn't find it when I went to look
for it last night, real quick. I think they opened up a can
of worms. To be honest with you guys, this this has been going
on for so long, you know, and the concerns of what's the chemical
going to do long term? Listen, long term is here. If it
was an issued long term I think we would have we would have seen the
long term side effects of it, because this has been going on, to
my knowledge, for several decades and it's just now it's being monetized now and
and that's where the issues are coming up. And uh, you know here
Wrex makes a you know point. The question is now can they actually at
tech the chemicals and do they actively even try? I guess there's no process
to detect the chemicals in any grating cot and that takes more technology, it
takes more time to create a card, and that's going to mean more money,
yep, because somebody is going to pay for that. And I will
say that I think part of the whole story here is that Kurt made a
video of how he was doing this. And I think, as a human
being and victor to your eloquent point you made earlier, people have a visceral
reaction when they hear something, and it's how do you handle your reaction?
And unfortunately in the hobby, everybody goes on and has that quick reaction before
I think they really take a deep breath and figure out what's going on.
Honus Wagner or Sgcat or she was the first one was trimmed. The very
first honest Wagger was trimm Yeah, this is to Viter's point, this is
not new either. Yeah, and it's flagrant deception. You know, the
question is flagrant deception? Is that an oxymoron? If it's flagrant is a
deception? Yeah, and I think I think it's you know, trimming is
obviously right, but there's certain things that we have to declare that it's okay,
and certain things that are not obviously trimming should should never be allowed,
you know, dipping it in fluid, I mean, and pressing it with
I don't know, man, we have to we have to sit down and
write these things out. In my opinion, there should be a thing on
on these Third, the authentication websites, we're a page where it actually spells
out you know this is not allowed. And we catch this, it's going
to be gone. This is okay to do though. You can wipe it
down with a microfiber clock. You can, you know, spit or what
have you. I'd also like to point out that the logan is very funny
in the chat. I don't know that I can put it on screen,
but if you if you'd like to follow a separate conversation and not listen to
us, logan. Logan's got open mic and Mike going, uh okay doing
his thing, and if you hear me laugh out loud, it might be
because of that. This to Victor's point, and now I lost the yeah
point. Right here we go. Why does the fifty three central page smell
like keyboard duster? You know, there are there are some things that you
know with this whole story that you just to laugh. I guys, we're
talking about cardboard here. You know it's okay to laugh. Uh, here's
a good one. Ps I could add it to the flip, say it
came from Kurt. Let the buyer decides. You know what, I'd still
say we got the best chair room. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
is P s A now going to have to hire like smellers. We're gonna
get like a vintage card. They'll be like a dog. Trained dogs get
like a drug sniffing dog to smell for like acetone or lighter fluid or whatever,
nail polish or removal or whatever they put on those things. The battery
says, I've heard her. Kurt's formula was actually derived from Victor Saliva.
It's like the original recipe. Hey, guys. The P. S A
Canine Unit will have you. Guys are out of control today. This this
is but you know what, I think this speaks to how much people care
about it. Yeah, you know, I really think if nobody was passionate,
nobody would have a comment on it. And I think to your point,
Victor, every you know, whether it's one side or the other,
or or if you're totally ambivalent and don't care about the topic, you know
there there is something about this that I think hits us all because we've all
handled cards, We've all wished they looked better. And so anyway, greant
cardboard, good very early morning, gents. A shout out to our people
all over the world that are listening to us at times that are unhealthy for
your sleep patterns. We appreciate it, We really do. What time is
it in Korea? I wonder? Yeah, we asked that every week.
We should probably know it's probably the same time every Saturday, but we ask
every We ask every week. Anyway, Jeff, if you have anything,
a screen shot or something, I'd love to see that that apparently a YouTuber
call the FBI owned Kurt. I'm not I'm gonna put that up there as
Jeff's card journey comment for right now, I have not seen that. That
doesn't mean it's not true, but I have not seen that. And I
will admit to uh actually having a family life yesterday a little bit as well.
Yeah, but I think PSA opened up a can of worms with this.
I'll be honest with you, you know, And Okay, I'm sorry.
There's the question I keep getting to ask, and it's a serious question,
which is why I forget Do you think the card companies got caught off
guard and blinded that this whole thing has become a public conversation like they were
almost happier when it was not not a public conversation and they didn't have the
responsibility, They didn't have to deal with the canine unit, you know.
It just it wasn't something they had to worry about. It's hard out that
it's a big topic. Yeah, it's hard for me to say that they
got caught off guard because Kurt's card care product and even the Jim Minty there's
another one out there, right, yeah, mister, Yeah, it's this
has been out in the forefront mainstream YouTube for quite some time now, at
least a good year, where a lot of these videos are being created and
a lot of this buzz is being generated, so it's been out there.
I think they've been trying to, you know, control it, trying to
but it's it just this this thing keeps getting bigger and bigger, and I
think it's something that really needs to be addressed. PSA could have made a
strong stance here, but if if they did indeed deactivate those searchs, but
I don't know if that was the right move. I mean, it's it's
a good flex to try to keep this thing, you know, controlled,
But I don't know. I think long term we're opening up because now we're
demanding is that you you a disclaimer right that you notify. So now we've
got to make separate labels and that sort of thing. And it's another layer
within the process that's going to generate more technology, more time or people.
That's what it speaks to. It speaks to the technology and the time.
Yeah, the companies are for profit businesses. These are not nonprofits for the
hobby. And when you're in a for profit business, there's a checks and
balances, you know internally, and so it comes down to how much do
people care, how much do they have to respond? And is a public
statement, and I love that you're calling it a flex. It really is
a flex on their part. You know, does that solve the public outcry
but it doesn't solve the core problem or do they actually have to deep down
to the core problem, which and then they have technology and cost and everything
else. I believe it was Neil Cards and Comics who interviewed Pete from SGC
like a year and a half ago on this exact topic, and Peach responses,
Hey, listen, if we can't detect it, there's nothing that we
can really, there's no if there's nothing there now if we do see residue.
If we do see then we have to address it. But the way
it stands, we can't tell what's been done. And and that's that's the
problem. This the Steven says he's a funny doctor. One day you will
get to buy a car from fanatics, THEND it to curve, then the
p s A. Then today, with one play will be getting a cut
of It's funny. But it's so it kind of makes sense, well really
close to true on that, I think a lot, a lot closer than
we want to admit. You know, this is an interesting question, and
I don't you know this is a fair you know comment. Maybe scam is
not the right word, but people use it. It's just more evidence that
grading is a scam, you know. And Victory you made the point that
this has been going on for years, so I don't want to call it
a scam. But is grading far more imperfect than we give it credit for,
Chris? Is it far? It's an objective opinion of someone, it's
not subjective. You're sending your card in and it gets looked at by what
to three different people, they come up with a grade. They're probably different
grades. It's averaged out in the end, and they're probably not gonna you
know, we're human beings, We're not perfect. We're probably gonna, you
know, three different people are gonna come up with three different grades for something.
So paying for a person's opinion when you send your card to get graded,
well, this is why a lot of people say, collect the card,
not the grade, and I like I like cardboard, not plastic cards,
not numbers. Historically grading came from scams. It's because there was a
lot of scammers out there. When printing technology started to get advanced with computers
in the nineties and the two thousands. That stuff was just being you know
that we had to we had to come up with some kind of process and
grading really gave us that sense of security that this is a real card.
For people that didn't live through the scamming of the eighties, I think it's
hard to understand what the world was like that GET started as a magazine company.
Grating came in, you know, way down the line, PSA,
SGC. Look at what years they actually started. I got news for it.
It was during the junk wax era. Yeah, these didn't start with
vintage cards, right. Peace of mind is what it gave consumers, and
it took off because there was especially as the Internet started to come into the
hobby. Yeah, I mean, if you're it gave it gave collectors some
bit of confidence that when they bid on a card on eBay, they're going
to get what they get, you know that. And that's always been the
one thing. I don't want to say Achilles heel of buying cards over the
internet, but you're buying you're buying these cards sight unseen, and if you're
spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a card that the seller says is in
condition X. But you get the card and you think it's condition X minus
two. That's a problem. And that's one good thing that grating has brought
to the hobby. It's brought a it's brought some level of standardization amongs among
Yeah, and you get and and the great thing is you can take it
or leave it. Yeah, nobody makes you buy it unless you're buying a
one o one. You have options, Jimmy, great point here. The
upper deck hologram existed solely for scamming actors in the eighties. I remember how
big of a deal that was when when they put a holow you know,
the hologram on here, like whoa nobody will ever a fake your card again
And they were the only ones who had that technology for a lot of years
or cared enough to put it on. You want to look at it.
But but that was a big deal. And and once again, uh,
you know and here and I want to put our Rex cards Rex uh comments
here. Think about how many people crack and re submit cards more and more.
Grating seems like a potential house of cards pun intended, I'm sure Rex.
To me, I've always thought that was an interesting side of this is
we look at pop reports and we look at submissions. You know, are
they getting more inaccurate over time because of this? If it's an iconic card,
I would say absolutely you can. The only one you can really is
the tens right, those right exactly? Well, but was it the first
or second company? You know? And somebody who said p s A stands
for a police submit again, which which I think is hysterical and I had
to work that in somehow today. But you know, I really think you
know, that's an issue. Logan says, this is just another tool that
scammers can use to exploit collectors. Yeah. I mean, if you're if
you're trying to put through cards, you know, through other companies and you
know they're fake, that's certainly not something I would consider kosher. Yeah.
Net cracking and resubbing I think has been just in like in the last four
years since since the COVID boom. I think it's when it's really I think
before that, the percentage of actual crackouts and resubs we're very very small compared
to the overall cards that were getting graded, probably less than one percent.
But you know, there seems to be a trend ever since the COVID boom.
That makes it a little bit more normal, right to crack out and
resub try again type of thing. And that comes a little bit, like
the commenter said, because of the greediness of certain individuals flippers or what have
you. Yeah, it's a shame, but the readings really are skewed on
these pop reports, especially if a card is an iconic card. And Rex
says, don't get me wrong, we submit to PSA and SGC for various
reasons, and I want to touch on that it's a bit hypocritical of us,
but we're not really big fans of grading. I you know, I
think that's an excellent point. Do you guys look at different grading companies and
without getting into specifics, maybe for different types of cards, like if you
were to submit you look at every grading company is having its own type of
niche or yea, yeah, I don't get my cards graded, so I
don't have to worry about it. Well, there you go, because you
collect a hardboard, not plastic exactly, cards not numbers the circle of life.
How about you, Danny? I clicked both okay, and I'm not
afraid to say that my PC collections are typically graded. My sets are typically
wrong. So like I'm like, I'm collecting right now to dual sport athletes,
people who played professionally in more than one sport. Well, those are
all going to be graded, not because of the value, just because of
the display ability to put them all together. Because I hope I can get
a registry made for that. Maybe if there's anybody in the comments who's a
PSA Hall of Famer could help me. I think that would be a great
category to have in the PSA Hall of Famers we have in our chat.
I don't know, but I think dual sport Athletes is a fantastic one,
and so that's why I'm collecting it right now. But Victor, I'm working
on the fifty seven set. Nice of that is in a raw binder,
I mean in binder pages. Okay, So I I span the whole spectrum
down to just cards sitting on my desk. Do you send to one grading
company for one thing and another grating company for something else? Or all right,
you're going to make me fess up here, okay, Okay, okay,
I I don't mind buying SGC. I like buying SGC if I like
the card to me as she sees about the card one because in my mind,
I would send it to PSA even if it cost me the great one
day. So you're one hundred percent Collectors Universe. I was very happy to
see it come together. I'm not gonna lie. You're right, you know
what, I'm not gonna lie. It may it felt like a family gathering,
you know, like like you know, you know, somebody finally got
married and now we can have the family gathering and everybody's umbrella the chess probably
Okay, thank you, Mark, This is fantastic. There's a great display
at the Hall of Fame. Now two sport baseball apples. Nice. That
is something that will obviously be on my to do list to look up after
this. Uh Dylan, what's going on Hawaii? Uh? As I I
look at my wall of graded cards. I can't stand seeing the giant number
that SGC puts on the slab. Well, you know, that's definitely a
fair point whether or not you like the look of the slab. Any idea
of PSA and SGC will grade together and just use a different level label since
they're one company and all sharing resources. From my understanding, and I did
speak directly to Nat Turner. The SGC is being operated as a separate company
for the time being. The only exception is counterfeiting technology is going to be
shared. Whatever the highest level they have that, they're going to make that
consistent between the two companies. But other than that, Peter is still running
SGC and PSA and Collectors is not telling them what to do. Is what
I was told, So take that for whatever it's worth. I like it.
They need to keep it that way. Yes, Brent, you missed.
I don't know if you missed the beginning. Wish we were all in
Strongsville. Yes, definitely, without a doubt. Several carbs all request authentic
with SGC versus getting a grade. That's an interesting, uh interesting approach.
I've heard other people say that, would you do you guys buy authentic,
altered or well, Chris, I know you wouldn't, Victor. Would would
you buy altered or authentic? Yeah? I mean, if it's a big
card, I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind putting something like that in my
PC. Yeah. I think. I think if the card's legit, no
problem. Let's try to help when we can. I know very little,
but I'll share it. Jeff's card Journey. I bought a small lot of
fifty eight tops football Row yesterday. Very cool, by the way. I
can't wait to get them and put them in my Zion Max. That's a
new product on the market. Zion has come out with their kind of their
own holder that I see a lot of people talking about. He's the one
I want. What are your guys plans for the National I'll be there super
vip all five days. You're a super vip every day, super Elite man,
super elite, get me in thirty minutes, early product, superl homos,
super elate, super elate, victory. How far have we drive for
you? It's going to Oh man, it's not far. Four hours,
maybe three, three and a half hours. I believe it's gonna take I
don't know. I got to look it up. I don't know. But
but are you driving? I assume i'll be driving. Yeah, yeah,
Brent said, I soak all my cards in gasoline and then use a match.
You can't detect any old standing after that. That is a way to
you can't detect anything after that. Just just a little bit of charring.
This this is a big issue that's come up. Sure. Two Universal Pop
reports that makes zero sense. PSA needs to do away with SGC. Well,
this is a story that came up a couple of weeks ago, and
you know, the Universal Pop Report is something that people have a strong feeling
about. I'm kind of against it until, you know, until there's a
set of rules to kind of even out what the grades are. I think
it would be too incompatible, uncompatible, incompatible to have a PSA registry blended.
However, I think the information should be put side by side. I
think if you scan a card from either company, you should be able to
see the other company pop report next to it, and you know they have
that technology I would believe to do now that there's a PSA guy, you
know, do you want to see the pop reports blended or do you want
to see them kept separate? I do not. I'd like to keep them
separate. I think now that they've merged right or bought out or whatever the
terminology is, they're Facebook dating. There's no reason why PSA can't extend those
registries into an SGC format and just give them their own registry. I don't
care for universal Chris, I know you don't grade, but for the sanity
of the hobby. Do we need a universal registry or is it not a
practical application? I don't know how that would work though, because each of
the different grading companies has a different rubric for what is men, gem men
or pristine' exactly. Yeah, a PSA ten is not necessarily the same thing
as a BGS nine and a half, even though they both they're both labeled
as gem minh. They have different standards. So I will say, if
PSA and STC merge and make a universal just those two companies, I don't
have no issue with it with that concept either, but it's not I don't
think I'd make a big deal about it if they do merge. It's my
point. It doesn't. But just those two companies like PSA SGC, you
got to be under the same umbrella. Yeah, Rex says, I'm driving
in from Michigan. Also driving to the TOPS conference in Atlanta at the end
of next week. Nice good on you for that drive. I went to
college down in Atlanta and the drive from Baltimore wasn't enough for me. Hey,
Danny, before we come up against our can it said? Okay,
if I change gears on you for a second, please, I do want
to promote the ballot that is going on at the Sports Card Hall of Fame
Network. It's the annual Baseball Card Hall of Fame voting ballot that we have,
and I'd like if we can support Ray Ponio and that YouTube channel.
He just released the video last week with all the instructions and all of that.
Again, it's Sports Card Hall of Fame Network. It's a YouTube channel.
Look for Ray's most recent video and he'll give you the link to the
ballot and all of the details about the participation of it. I also wanted
to, you know, let everybody know that I am no longer with Sports
Card Hall of Fame Network. At the beginning of the year, I was
planning out my year and everything that I have going on with the hobby and
the amount of time that I have. I had to really make some adjustments
and shift them some things up, and I respectfully about out with the Sports
Card Hall of Fame Network team, and I felt like, you know,
there's there's a lot of good talent out there that can assist these guys.
I can no longer invest in it. A lot of it is pre war,
or some of it is pre war, I should say, and it's
an area that I'm really not strong in. I'm more you know, the
Golden Age and forward. But really they have they do great work. It's
a great cause that they're doing, and it's generating a lot of buzz over
the last few years. I want to continue to support them. And my
my favorite part is that now this year I get to vote, where in
the past years I couldn't vote, So a lot of shout out to to
Ray Fonio and that and that Baseball Card Hall of Fame. Uh, check
it out and give them some love. And I put in the chat room
the name of the YouTube channel that they can check out for the information.
So if you're in the chat room or you're watching this later and you want
to put on the chat we have it in there for the Sports Card Hall
of Fame Network. Thank you for bringing that up, Dylan says, Yes,
get out and vote for Robin, you out rookie card. That's what
they call. Yeah, nineteen seventy five forever, there's a law of a
good setting. I'm sorry I got here. Nineteen seventy five is an ugly
set of cards. You don't like it. You either love it or hate
it. Put it with seventy two, seventy two and seventy five can date,
and they can walk, and they can go move somewhere happily. And
I think we're going to start wrapping it up on this note as a PSA,
do not microwave trading cards. Thank you, Logan. That's that's that's
a hot take. Danny, You're off my Christmas list. There you go,
as long as long as you put me on the honokah one, I'm
fine, let's go. Yeah, I kind of am Nina all right.
I ask it every weekend because I always like to know right before we get
out, leave on a positive vibe for everybody. Guys, put it in
the chats. You know what I'm gonna ask? What are we doing hobby
wise? Exciting? Not exciting? Sorting cards, doing content, going to
a show? What are we up to this weekend? Chris? Actually I
went to bell Airy yesterday, so oh text me, dude, I would
not yesterday in general? Yeah, Victor, what are you up to recording,
editing and uploading glamorous? Yes? I just did an interview and part
of the discussion was for every ten minutes of content, it was it's about
an hour of work. So I I wish you god speed my friends as
you sit there and try to get everything to sync up. Yes, that
that is U. That's the true work and content creation. Yep. Absolutely.
Uh you guys, if you don't create cards, you don't get scammed.
Well that's not one hundred percent through either, which is why there's cards
on the market. Logan says, going to Talladega. If it doesn't rain,
I hope there's a race. If there's not, then I just hope
you enjoyed Talladega. I just hurt. I just found out that Logan has
a YouTube channel. I did not know that until YouTube fed it to me
the other day, and I gladly subscribe to his channel. But he's got
a ton of videos on YouTube. Credit super VP. Let's go Logan,
give it you, give way to go. Rex says, thanks, guys,
have fun, Rex, thank you as always, the sports card Shop
is fantastic. Shake and bake Logan, all right, guys, Uh for
for no Internet and there we go, Thanks Victor. No real topics,
Well, the hobby has topics, whether or not we talk about him.
We we we somehow flew this plane today. You guys are the best co
pilots. I appreciate your patience with me and thank you so much. To
the chat room. Every Saturday morning at approximately eleven am you will find hobby
Hotline on bench Clare Media. Thank you guys, anything any last words,
Victor, there we go and Chris and let's keep rocking in the free world.
Folks. Enjoy your weekend.