WEBVTT

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It's Stick Gabriel taking a little bit
of time off, so we thought we

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would replace some of the best interviews
from over the last several months. Please

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enjoy the best of the Big Blue
Insider. Tonight, they will decide a

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national champion in Division one college baseball. It'll be either Texas A and M

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or Tennessee A team from the SEC. Of course, will not be the

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Kentucky Wildcats. As you will know, they lost to A and M.

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That was the first loss for the
Wildcats in Omaha. Got a root for

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A and M. How do you
root for those Tennessee balls? But anyhow,

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whoever you're rooting for, it should
be the games have been great.

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So yeah, that's tonight on ESPN
on the Worldwide Leader. So best to

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look to the aggies and the balls. A couple of recruiting notes where it

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is a recruiting season and Preston Bowman
you may know that name because he's a

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wide receiver from Pickerington, Ohio.
Josh Edwards are two four to seven sports

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reporting over the weekend that here's a
guy who's committed to Kentucky committed Saturday,

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almost immediately he got an offer from
the hometown Ohio State Buckeyes, but he

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says he is still quote locked on
UK. Okay, that's fine. I

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don't know if he's making a visit
or not to Ohio State. But until

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he signs, as we all learned
from Mac Jones who was one hundred percent

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committed to Kentucky and then went to
Alabama. Until you get him with that

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ink on the dotted line, you
just never know. But he says,

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even though the Buckeyes may have an
offer, he will be a Kentucky Wildcat

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and he's a good one. So
is basketball recruit Will Riley. But over

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the weekend he chose Illinois. He's
a wing player, a five star.

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However, this is not a big
surprise. He was also looking at Arizona

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in Alabama ninth overall in the twenty
twenty five class per rivals, but he

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announced yesterday he will go to Illinois. He is from Waterloo, Ontario,

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and we also looked at going with
the New Zealand Breakers. That would have

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been interesting. So anyhow, who
recruits from Illinois, Orlando and Tigwall,

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you know, good for him.
Today is special for a couple of reasons.

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I believe today's today they opened the
new BUCkies, the second in the

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state of Kentucky. It's in Smith's
Grove, which is outside of Bowling Green

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in Warren County. So yeah,
we've got another BUCkies. Also, it

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was forty four years ago today that
the film The Blues Brothers made its debut

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in theaters. First, to trade
the Cadillac for a microphone. Then you

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lie to me about the band.
Now you're gonna put you right back in

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the joint. They're not gonna catch
us. We're on a mission from God,

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and there is a sports connection.
There is a Kentucky connection, believe

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it or not. If you don't
know what it is, well you don't

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really care about The Blues Brothers.
But even if you weren't around, even

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if we're old enough to see it
when it first came out, I'm sure

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you've seen it. Since it's all
over TV. Try to see the unedited

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version if you can. It started
as a real musical act on SNL Saturday

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Night Live with Dan Ackroyd and John
Belushi. That's where it all began.

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It wasn't the other way around as
I used to think. And after they

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debuted, Ackroyd thought it would make
a great movie. Around these guys,

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so he writes a script. There
was three hundred and twenty four pages long,

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would have taken five and a half
hours to make. They hired John

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Landis to direct that. He directed
The Animal House. He got the script

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down to one hundred and twenty pages. You can see Landis in the movie

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if you've seen it. When the
state troopers are chasing the Blues Brothers threw

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them all in their cars. He's
driving the police car. Also, Steven

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Spielberg has a cameo. He at
the very end as the Cook County assessor's

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clerk when they come to give the
money to save the orphanage. There's all

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kinds of interesting stories behind this movie. Carrie Fisher has a cameo. At

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the time she was dat eating Dan
Ackroyd and apparently at one point on set

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was eating a salad or something choked
on a Brussels sprout. Ackroyd saved her

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life with the Heimlich maneuver. How
about that the sunglasses are a vital part

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of the costume. They've never seen
without it. Apparently John Belushi after almost

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every take, lost his so they
had to buy hundreds of pairs of the

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sunglasses. Drugs everywhere on the set. Apparently, according to one report,

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there was cocaine written into the budget
to keep the crew awake during long shoots.

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Naturally, Belushi abused it. Landis
had to hire a bodyguard to look

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after him. Guy was an ex
Secret Service agent who guarded Richard Nixon.

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That's incredible. And by the way, speaking of those costumes, they were

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based on the look by Roy Orbison. I mean, there's so many nods

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to great music in this film.
It's tremendous. And how's this for a

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cameo? Pope? John Paul the
Second was in Chicago during the filming,

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visited the set. There's an actual
photo of John Belushi kissing his ring.

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That's incredible. They crashed one hundred
and three cars. That was a world

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record at the time, stood for
two years until Gone to sixty seconds wrecked

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one hundred and fifty. That stood
until twenty oh three when the matrix reloaded.

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Movie wrecked more than three hundred cars. So that's the Blues Brothers.

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Now, what's the Kentucky connection joining
us now? In our celebrity Hodeline as

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a man, you've heard him on
my show, not in character, you've

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seen him in character as one of
the Go Big Blues Brothers. He plays

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Ellwood, and that would be the
great Bol Robinson. You hear him on

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Double Q. You hear him on
Sunday Morning Sports Talk and Bo. You

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used to occasionally produce this show,
and you and I would banter a little

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bit, So you're familiar in many
ways to our audience. I guess they're

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familiar with me too. And I
I don't know what you mean by playing

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a character, because if you really
do know me, Elwhen and I are

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pretty similar. This is true.
Well, let us get back to the

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Blues Brothers. I mentioned earlier.
It's the forty fourth anniversary of the movie

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and you and give everybody Jake's real
name, John Coffee. Yep, you

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guys started showing up dressed as the
Blues Brothers, but in blue, the

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hats, the jackets, you have
the sunglasses going. How did that start?

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We had talked about Actually, if
you want to get right down to

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it, John and I met on
a movie set about fifteen years ago and

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we got to argue on about Kentucky
basketball. He said something and then I

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snapped back at him and I said, no, you're wrong, And that's

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how we ended up becoming pretty much
best friends. So we've always enjoyed UK

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basketball, we're super fans, you
know this, and we enjoy movies and

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media and bonded over our love of
the Blues Brothers and the music that comes

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along with it and Acroid and blueshe
and the whole Saturday night live culture from

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back in the seventies. And we
talked about, hey, if we started

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this Blues Brothers thing at Repp Arena, how can we do this? So

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about five years ago, five and
a half years ago, I was at

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JC Penny. I looked over and
there's a blue blue blazer and I said,

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I called him, I go,
I found it. Ah, I

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grabbed it and he ordered one because
they didn't have its size and big Blue

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manus twenty nineteen. So when we
debuted the Go Big Blues Brothers. Nice

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and by the way, I kind
of buried the lead on bo but Bou.

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For however many years you ran the
UK network the technical end of things.

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You were the guy who was the
one who coordinated commercials and programming.

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You pushed the buttons that got us
all in the air. How long did

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you do that? Twelve years?
Wow? Man? Yeah that's years.

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And I love right there, because
folks, when you're doing that job,

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you're not at the game obviously,
And so Bol made the sacrifice but did

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a great job. We all had
a great deal of faith in Bowl.

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But now you can't get him out
of Upperna. And one of the great

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things I felt boul about you and
John and the Go Big Blues Brothers was

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your devotion to Joby Hall. I
just thought that was great. Well,

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we grew up watching Joby Hall.
When you asked me who got you into

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Kentucky basketball, Well, I was
born in seventy seven, so I was

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a little too young to remember Jack
Gibbon James Lee until much later in life.

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But eighty four eighty five, when
I really started getting into Kentucky basketball,

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it was Joebey Hall. That was
the coach I grew up watching.

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Some kids grew up watching Patino,
I get it nowadays kids grew up watching

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Cali Perry and now Mark Pope.
So we came up with the whole theme,

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how do we embrace joe By Hall
and celebrate the coach that he is,

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and not only the coach but the
individual the person as well. And

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we you know this, we just
always made a big deal about Joe B.

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Hall, and first time we got
a picture taken with him, he

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yelled at us and said, I
want a blue jacket, a blue jacket

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the Blues Brothers. I want to
be a Blues brother. And I said,

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Coach Hall, you are the original
go big Blues brother. And you

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got him one, didn't you.
No, we did not, because his

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son a few weeks later we ran
into him. His son and brother Jake

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said Coach Hall wants a blue blazer
and his son said he has plenty of

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blazer or something that figure money,
figure money. That's right, because he

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showed up in one, and I
thought you all got it for him.

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But yeah, he actually wore one
when he was coaching. So but no,

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you had pictures with him, and
you also, by the way,

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you've been anointed by the Pope,
by the new Pope. He saw you

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guys. There's a video online of
him making the rounds and r up the

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day he was introduced. He spotted
you guys in the front row and loved

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it. And since then you've had
a picture taken with him. So the

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circle is complete, isn't it.
It is? And it goes right back

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to the Blues Brothers. We're on
a mission from God. We're now on

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a mission from the Pope. That's
right. What has been the fan reaction

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because clearly there's at least one generation
and don't even know what the Blues Brothers

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movie is. Sadly, but I
got to think when they see you guys

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coming, it's a lot of fun. Well it was when we debuted this.

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It was either going to be a
flip flopp or fly or failure.

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Yeah, and you are correct.
The older generation gets it and they appreciate

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it so much. The younger generation
they're like, who are these dudes in

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blue hants, blue sunglasses that are
very stoic at times, but very enthusiastic

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about Kentucky basketball. And then compared
to say, go take a picture with

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these guys, Go go take a
picture with them. This is awesome,

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this is legendary. We'll get it. We'll explain it to you much later.

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That's fantastic. And you guys don't
just show up at games either.

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I've been at many events, gatherings
and things like that, and suddenly you

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guys pop in. How do you
decide what is it? Just based on

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your calendar, your respective calendars.
I'm not doing anything, let's go or

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how do you do this? Right? It's respective calendars and whether or not

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Brother Jake has served all of his
community service. No, I'm just kidding.

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It's we just kind of pick and
choose and if we can do it,

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we'll do it. If not,
no big deal, we'll figure it

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out later on. Are you or
were you a big Blues Brothers fan?

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Because that came out I guess right
about the time you were born, and

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of course it's been on TV one
hundred thousand times and so much have been

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said written about it. I didn't
know some of the facts that I just

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rattled off. I didn't know,
you know how they say I had a

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world record at the time for cars
destroyed in that movie, things like that.

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So were you a fan once you
saw the movie? Well, when

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the movie came out, I was
only three years old. I had no

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clue about Ackroyd and Belushi until I
remember watching the movie one Saturday afternoon on

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TBS. And it may have been
while the Braves was in a rain delayer

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or something, and for some reason, these two characters just captured my mind

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and the music just gave me a
joelt all of a sudden and I'm watching

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it with my dad, and he
says, you're not watching anything I don't

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know already, And I said,
what do you mean. He goes,

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these guys are on Saturday Night Live, but let me show you something else.

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And then he showed me his record
collection and it was all this great

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rhythm in blues and souls out of
Memphis, and otis writing Wilson Pickett,

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Booker T and the MG's and he
said, the guy with the long hair

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playing guitar, that's Steve Cropper.
The guy playing bass, that's Donald Duck

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Dunn. They were remembers of Booker
T and the MG. Now all of

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a sudden, I start making the
connection between the Blues Brothers and just the

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resurgence of rhythm and blues and soul
music and the impact that they had on

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not only me as a kid,
but kind of bringing forth the music of

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their generation and bridge that gap to
myself. And I thought, James Brown's

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pretty good. Franklin, It's awesome. But not only does the Blues brother

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not only does that music spotlight rhythm
and blues and soul, but there's a

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little bit of country in there,
both kinds country and western. If you

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listen to it. I think that's
the most off quoted line in the entire

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movie, don't you We have both
kinds of music, country and western.

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Yeah yeah, but there's so many
maybe well that between that and run a

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Mission from God, so you know, yeah, but that's the thing when

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you can quote multiple lines. By
the way, you mentioned James Brown,

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who has a cameo. So he
once yah took the Blues Brother's mobile on

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a drive and ended up about one
hundred miles as we got lost from Chicago.

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He gets pulled over with no ID
and the police are like, you're

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what You're who? Huh? And
they had to call John Landis, the

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director, to get him to vouch. And then they're like, oh,

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the James Brown. Uh. And
another thing I read was that Aretha obviously

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lip synced the song think, which
is such a great song. That's what

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the song they singing the diner,
and it had been so long since she

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had done that song. They it
took multiple takes for her because she couldn't

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exactly remember the words. But it
all just came together, didn't it.

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It did. And you took about
James Brown and Aretha Frank Flung. Look

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at the cameos and some of the
appearances of who was in this. John

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Candy, yes, I'll see out
to me. Uh. In the church

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scene with James Brown. Shakaka is
the soloist in the choir. Joe Walsh

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makes an appearance at the land thing
when they're doing Jailhouse Rock. He's the

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first one to jump off on the
table and start dancing. Really, Yes,

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that's uncle Joe Walsh. Yeah.
Steven Spielberg, Yes, at the

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Cook County Tax Assessors Office. That's
right, he's in this. So it's

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kind of amazing how they pulled these
little cameos. And if if you watch

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and you know who's who, it's
pretty intriguing. You wouldn't recognize Spielberg.

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I never knew that until I saw
the picture. And John Landis, you

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know, when when the troopers are
driving through the mall, Landis is behind

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the wheel, that's the director.
So it's it's so great for those reasons

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and more. We're talking with Bo
Robinson. He is Ellwood of the God

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Big Blues Brothers. A couple of
minutes left with Bo. You hear him

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on Sunday Morning Sports Talk. Occasionally
hear him on Double QR. Sister station.

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Before I let you go, you
were telling me they're are Kentucky connects

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to the Blues Brothers the movie itself, there is, and I'll start with

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the first one. Charles Napier,
who played Sucker McElroy, lead singer and

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driver of the Winnebago for The Good
Old Boys. He was born in Mountain

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Union, Kentucky. He lived in
the United States Army nineteen fifty four,

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came back, graduated from Western Kentucky, became an assistant basketball coach at Allen

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County High School, and then he
moved to Florida, and then he came

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back to coach high school basketball again
in Western Kentucky. So when you look

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at that and you think, wait
a minute, Western Kentucky, he was

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a basketball coach. He's in the
Blues Brothers. This is some pretty good

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trivia right here with the Good Old
Boys. Yeah, and I think that's

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one of the gems of the Blues
Brothers to go in dig deep, do

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your deep dive and find out,
like we were talking about some of these

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cameos and some of these lesser known
actors, by the way, that we're

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in the Blues Brothers. Tucker McElroy
did an episode of the original Star Trek.

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It's the one where they encountered the
space Hippies and he was one of

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them. Is back. He went
from good old he went from Spock to

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the good old Boy. I don't
know, but he has a ton of

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acting. He has a ton of
acting credits to his name. The other

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one that I find very very interesting
is Ralph Footie and Ralph Foodie played the

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dispatcher in The Blues Brothers who relayed
the message to law enforcement that unnecessary violence

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and the apprehension of the Blues Brothers
has been approved. Ralph thirty had a

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handful of acting credits. But the
connection to Kentucky is he is buried in

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the Lexington Cemetery when he got out
of acting. I think he moved to

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Lexington mid nineties to raise forces and
he is very I don't think he's buried,

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interred as the proper word. My
sister would get after me about that

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over at the Lexington Cemetery. But
go back to home alone. And when

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Macaulay Culkin is watching that gangster movie, Ralph Foodie is the guy on TV

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and he says, keep the change
of belting animal. That's Ralph Foodie.

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And the Blues Brothers lying, keep
it change it feels the animal. By

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the way, congratulations, you've been
on the show before. So is your

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sister. You're the only brother sister
combination who's ever been on the Big Woo

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00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.920
in Sider. Well, I appreciate
that, and to be honest, I

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can't keep up with her. She's
on another level. She really is Boul

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Robinson. He is Elwood of the
Big Blue, Big Blues Brothers. Thank

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you so much, sir. We'll
see us down the road, Thank you

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much. Coming up in just a
few minutes. Van Hile's here on six

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thirty Wlap's one hundred and six miles
to Chicago. We got a full tank

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of gas, half a pack of
cigarettes. It's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

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Hit it. We're listening to the
best of the Big Woo Insider here

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on six thirty WLAP. It's Dick
Gabriel. Welcome back to the Best of

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00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:10.279
the Big Blue Insider. Welcome back. Quick segment here because we went along

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with the Blues Brothers and especially with
the Go Big Blues Brothers. A couple

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of headlines for you. You already
know. Scottie Scheffler won his sixth tournament

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in his last ten starts. Here's
the list of people who have amassed six

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wins in a PG eight Tour season
prior to July first, since nineteen sixty

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Arnold Palmer did it in sixty and
sixty two, and now Scheffler did it

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in twenty twenty four. That's it. Nobody else. But of course the

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day was somewhat marred a little bit
by these clowns who protested with smoke bombs

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breaching the green while play was underway. They wrapped it up, people were

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arrested, and look, I am
all for the awareness about climate change,

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I really am. I'm big on
that, but I can't stand stuff like

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this because what does it accomplish.
One thing doesn't accomplish anything in terms of

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helping us with climate change problems.
No, all it does is underscore for

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people who either don't care about climate
change, which is crazy, or people

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who really aren't sure about it.
But all we know now is these people

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in particular, and for all we
know, there are folks out there making

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a blanket assessment climate change protesters are
nuts. Will anything changed because of what

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they did yesterday? In the big
picture, No, it won't. So

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Why waste your time, Why waste
everybody's time? Why waste law enforcement's time?

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It makes zero sense to me,
it always says. Look, I

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realized that without protests, the Vietnam
War might have droned on. But smoke

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bombs at a golf course that ain't
gonna get it done. Folks, you're

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listening to the best of the Big
Blue and side more to come here on

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six thirty WLAP. It's Dick Gabriel, Welcome back to the Best of the

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Big Blue. Insider joining us now
in the celebrity highline as a longtime friend.

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He's been on the show many times. Because Alan Stein I like to

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call the godfather of minor league baseball
in Lexington, Aaron I thought about you.

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00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.680
Allen was instrumental in bringing the Legends
to Lexing, but he's also got

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a lot of experience with other teams, including the Omaha Storm Chasers by coincidence,

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but I wanted to ask you you. I thought of you immediately when

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I read the story on the Athletic
about the robot umpires and the moves that

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professional baseball is making. And what
fascinated me more than anything, Alan was

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that players and coaches are opposed to
using them full time, but in some

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minor leagues they will keep using them
full time, but they're moving toward some

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days yes, some days no.
What can you tell us about that?

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And if anything, and and where
at least the minor leagues are in this

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is it unfolds? You know that
that's really interesting. Here in Omaha watching

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the game, I was sitting with
Marty Cordero, who is our GM for

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the Omaha Star Chasers, and in
the UH we were we were watching the

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game and and I said to Marty, are they using the A B S

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system here? Because that the umpires
I've noticed in in both of the UK

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games were very slow, slow with
their calls. Yes, UH at home

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plate. I don't know if you
noticed that, but he said not,

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yeah, very deliberate and he said, no, they're they're not. But

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it opened up a whole conversation about
the A B S system and how he

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liked it. And this was before
the Commissioner's announcement came out. So I

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can tell you this what Marty told
me about what UH other gms at Triple

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00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:11.960
A UH and the players and even
the fans are thinking, is that they

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don't want they want to get it
right and they don't want to slow the

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game down too much. So with
the commissioners uh suggesting here is that the

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fans, the players, and and
uh the administrators in baseball all have been

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surveyed and nobody is really one hundred
percent on board with the a BS system

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itself by itself in those in those
leagues and on those days when they use

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that, not everybody's really happy with
it. The strike zones, UH don't

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they don't have they don't seem to
have the technology down right yet where they

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can get you know, these new
the new sweepers, you know, the

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00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:08.279
slider curve things that they're going through
the strike zones that don't really match up

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with what the players and folks in
baseball have been used to. So they're

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not real crazy about that. But
what they do like is getting it right

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and the challenge system has been pretty
successful. So it looks like the Commissioner's

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Office has agreed based on based on
what the surveys have been, that they're

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going to be moving I would say
by twenty twenty six at the latest,

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possibly in twenty five to the big
leagues, but more likely twenty six using

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this modified system where they will be
using basically the challenge system. Now,

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the big question has become to how
much do we want to do that.

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You know, it's sort of contradictory
in that the Commissioner's Office and Baseball have

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embraced this let's speed the game up
thing, you know, let's don't have

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too many delays. On the other
hand, how many you know, by

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using the challenge system now, adding
that to the abs, it will slow

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the game down a little bit,
And so the question has become how many

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of the challenges do we do?
So interestingly enough, this year, it's

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starting on June the twenty fifth,
you know, which is next week,

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they're going to be different TRIPA A. They're going to go with a maximum

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a straight challenge system with a maximum
of three challenges per game, and of

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course, if you get it right, you get an additional challenge, just

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like in the other challenge system.
But in double A they're gonna try it

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with only two. And the fans
surveys have been coming the player surveys have

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been kind of mixed on that,
but the fan surveys have been coming back

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that they prefer the lower number.
So when you have a challenge system,

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where three times a game each team
can challenge a ball or a strike ball,

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that's six and if you get it
right, that adds on another two

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times a game, so that's eight
times eight stoppages. Now, the good

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00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:51.400
news is, and I've seen it
in action, the good news is the

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challenge system is almost instantaneous. It
really doesn't it really doesn't slow the game

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down. The the player, the
hitter or or the hitter will step out

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of the box and he'll look at
the umpire and do the you know,

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the ear thing the challenge signal,
and it's almost instantaneous because you know it's

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already there, the ABS system,
it is in place, and so they

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get I'm kind of have a little
buzzard and it'll tell him right or wrong,

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and the umpire will call a baller
a strike based on the challenge.

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So I was talking to Jeff piicorrel
and he had a great idea with that

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technology. Or maybe it's similar,
I don't know, but you know they've

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got the similar technology I guess in
tennis. Does it work the same way,

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Yes, yeah, it does exactly. And yeah, and we've got

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used to the tennis thing that's been
in place for quite some time, and

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you never in tennis see an argument. Once the challenge is their boom,

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it's gone, and they move right
on. I suspect that we're going to

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like, we're going to get used
to this pretty quickly. I don't want

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to see the game slow down either. You know, it's interesting. We're

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all out here at Omaha. The
only objection anybody ever has. We all

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00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.960
love college baseball, but the only
objection is is that the damn games just

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got too long. And now those
of us in in professional sports aspect baseball,

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have gotten really used to the legends. For example, our average game

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this year is two thirty one nice, and yeah it is. It just

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moves right along, and you don't
want it to you know, you know,

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you don't get used to something.
And then go to a college game

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where in the college World Series the
average game is close to four plus powers.

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That's a big difference from two and
a half to four and you know,

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00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.200
the game's great and there's a lot
on the line, so we don't

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really notice it as much. But
when you just go to a regular college

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00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.079
baseball game and it gets to three
and a half or four hours, you

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00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:17.200
begin to really notice it. So
you know in the big leagues and in

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professional baseball, they've embraced this new
timing piece, and I think you here

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to stay, and we adapted to
it very quickly. I believe that the

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00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:33.880
ADS system and with the challenge,
with the challenge being the key element of

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that, whether they end up with
two or three challenges, I really believe

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we're going to adapt to that almost
overnight. It won't take any time at

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all. Allen Stein of the Legend
is my guess. We'll come back and

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00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:51.079
talk more about baseball and robot umpires
with Allen. We're listening to the best

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00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.759
of the Big Blue Insider. More
to come here on six thirty w LAP.

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00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:57.680
Hey, it's Dick Gabriel and you're
listening to the best of the Big

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00:29:57.720 --> 00:30:02.799
Blue Insider. I'm talking with Alan
Sign, who is not just a minor

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00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.279
league baseball fan, but a Kentucky
baseball fan as well. UK fan.

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Will get back to that in just
a moment, But we've been talking about

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00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:15.400
the fact that the minor leagues are
trying it out robot umpires, maybe for

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00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.480
every pitch of every game, maybe
for some games during the week like midweek

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00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.720
games, and not on the weekends. And then maybe just for challenges.

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00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.759
And I find a really interesting allan
that you all and I'm talking about minor

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00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:33.720
league executives, and you refer to
this before the break. You've really made

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00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:40.400
a lot of the surveys you've done, not just with players and managers and

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00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.039
coaches, but with the fans,
you know, and you talk about some

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00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:48.039
of the responses, but have you
gotten a lot of responses from fans?

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00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:55.519
Absolutely, you bet the fans really
like being a part of this decision making

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00:30:55.599 --> 00:31:00.599
process. I will tell you this, though, I have friends all at

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all levels in affiliated and independent baseball. The what's crazy? Everybody, everybody,

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00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:15.160
everybody that you talk to, says, let's get to a system.

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00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:19.279
If you and the players, especially
some players, you know, at single

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00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:23.519
as they'll have one system. Then
at double A they go to another system.

396
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.680
They get to triple A and it's
every other day, or you know

397
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.519
three three days a week, fifths
four days a week, cats. Everybody

398
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:37.000
is saying, let's just get to
a consistent system. I think universally everybody

399
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.400
in in professional baseball has said,
Okay, we know this is coming,

400
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.559
it's going to happen, let's just
go ahead and do it. And the

401
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.920
Commissioner's office is getting a lot of
praise. You know, love him or

402
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:55.359
hate him. He has been very, very committed to including the fans in

403
00:31:55.400 --> 00:32:00.880
these conversations, and I can tell
you in at the minor league baseball level,

404
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:07.640
even in independent baseball, that's been
very much appreciated. And I think

405
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:15.559
that helps in the adaptation and the
embrace of these new rules moving forward.

406
00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:22.799
Now there are some that that the
fans are universally against. There's one thing

407
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:27.519
that has already begun, and you
saw it at the SEC tournament. Is

408
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:31.880
this double bag the first to baseball, two first bases, one white and

409
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:37.359
one green. I haven't found a
single person who think that's I think that's

410
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:44.960
a good idea. You know that
that's a bridge too far. But you

411
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:51.200
know, generally speaking overall, even
with the robot i'ms which you might have

412
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:57.880
thought might not be something that fans
would embrace, they actually really have.

413
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:02.920
And including the fans has been a
key to getting all of this stuff so

414
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.720
seamlessly involved in moving the game forward. You know, I happened I'm an

415
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:12.440
outlier. I happen to like the
double bass simply because I've umpired baseball.

416
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.200
And that's a tough situation. Man
down there at first base, a lot

417
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.799
going on with the ball and the
runner and the field are all arriving at

418
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.640
the same time. I got anything
that makes it, you know, And

419
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:27.680
not to get off topic, but
the one rule I wish that they would

420
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.440
have kept on some levels and implemented
on others. But they used to have

421
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:35.000
a check swing rule about breaking the
plane at the front of the plate with

422
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.559
a bat or the front hip if
you're in the back of the box.

423
00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:43.920
That made it easier on everybody,
and they just didn't stick with it.

424
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:47.359
I don't get that, but you
know how baseball is. Before I let

425
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:51.960
you go, Alan, I mentioned
UK baseball and you and I have talked

426
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:54.480
about this before. You've been in
Omahaw cheering on the catch as well as

427
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:01.880
the stormchasers. I know some people
feel compelled to choose between one or the

428
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.480
other, and you really don't have
to do you. I mean, it's

429
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.599
it's not apples and oranges, but
it's almost two entirely different seasons, two

430
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:14.800
different I won't say styles of baseball, but just two different worlds, and

431
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:21.840
you can enjoy both. Well.
It's interesting. I've had the opportunity both

432
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:29.719
in Lexington and in Omaha to experience
college baseball at a very high level while

433
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:37.880
still being in being able to embrace
professional baseball. The seasons overlap a little

434
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:42.480
bit, not really very much.
In Lexington, for example, as great

435
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.119
as a season as we had with
UK, I think there were only two

436
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:55.840
games that really overlap that mattered to
the Legends and the UK baseball team,

437
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.159
So the fans have the opportunity to
do both. They really are different experiences.

438
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:06.679
I love, you know. One
of my favorite things is when we

439
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:12.840
host the KHSAA the high school baseball. I just love that because the energy

440
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:15.920
is different and the cheering and all
the different things, and collegiate baseball is

441
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:22.400
the same thing. Professional baseball is
a whole different experience and the level of

442
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:28.599
baseball. If you're a baseball purist, you know, collegiate baseball is a

443
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:32.880
very different animal, even than low
a like single A baseball that we had

444
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:37.280
in Lectington. They're very, very
different when you're talking about just baseball itself.

445
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:45.599
You can embrace both. We certainly
do in Lexington and in Omaha where

446
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:52.119
it's at the peak. We've got
to triple a very competitive baseball program with

447
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:58.119
the Kansas City Royals. You know, the stone Chasers once again have the

448
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:02.800
very best record in all of minor
league baseball again this year. And our

449
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:08.360
crowds are great and continue to be. And there's there's a little bit overlap

450
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.440
with the College World Series, but
you're there, You've seen it. There's

451
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:20.239
no diminution of all of enthusiasm or
fan base. They've got thirteen thousand season

452
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:25.559
ticket holders to the College World Series. Like that, thirteen thousand people in

453
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:31.280
Omaha and surrounding go to the College
World Series every single day. Yep,

454
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:36.320
it's great. It's just awesome,
it really is. And before I let

455
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:38.800
you go do the storm Chaser,
you guys shall have I hope the Bob

456
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:45.199
Gibson statue out front, Oh absolutely
one of the you know, when I

457
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:50.960
am dead and gone, that will
be one of the milestones in my career

458
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:55.039
that I'm most happy about. Yeah. In fact, this week I got

459
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:04.199
to visit with that on the phone
with Win Gibson, Bob's wife. After

460
00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:08.679
Bob passed away, we stayed in
touch and yeah, you know that that's

461
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:15.920
statue's terrific out there. Is my
all time favorite pitcher and just I got

462
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.239
to meet him once and that was
well, and let me just add one

463
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.880
other real quick thing, if you'll
indulge me. The passing of Willie Mays

464
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:32.800
really really hit me hard. I
The very, very very first baseball game

465
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.800
I ever attended was at Crosley Field
in nineteen fifty nine with my dad,

466
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:44.599
and we were there because my dad
was such a Willie Mays fan. We

467
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:50.480
went to see the Giants and I
remember, and you're probably gonna hear me

468
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.639
say this again, somewhere along the
way, I remember, I don't know

469
00:37:53.679 --> 00:37:57.960
who won, you know, I
don't know who did what, but I

470
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:05.599
do remember that Willie Mays was in
center field for the Giants and that Frank

471
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:10.840
Robinson was in ricefield for the Reds
and I was in love for the rest

472
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:15.199
of my life. And you know, that was nineteen fifty nine. So

473
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:21.679
yes, you know, sixty six
years ago or whatever. That's great.

474
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:28.039
And so Willie May's passing, especially
this week, you know, with Jerry

475
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:31.119
West having just passed, and right
before that Bill Walton and I got to

476
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:36.119
see Jerry West play at the uk
I T in nineteen fifty nine. Yeah,

477
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:42.320
you know, so we're losing our
heroes. We're losing our heroes.

478
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.360
Sure are well and thank you for
sharing. Thank you for your time and

479
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:51.000
keep us posted on robot MS.
You got it, talk you sing,

480
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.159
Dave. You're listening to the best
of the Big New Insider. Our number

481
00:38:53.159 --> 00:39:34.360
two is next here on six thirty
w lap. Hey, it's sick Abriel.

482
00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.800
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider. Our number two taking a little

483
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:43.039
time off, so please enjoy the
best of the Big Blue Insider. Joining

484
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:46.599
us down our celebrity hotline is a
guy who has not been with the show.

485
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:51.760
You may know his work though,
Keith O'Brien, who is an award

486
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.760
winning journalist, a best selling author, and right now he has a book

487
00:39:55.800 --> 00:40:00.519
I can't wait to read. It's
out just in time for Father's By the

488
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:05.079
way, Charlie Hustle, The Rise
and Fall of Pete Rose and the Last

489
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:08.239
Glory Days of Baseball. Keith,
welcome, Hey Dick, thanks for having

490
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.639
me. You are a Cincinnati kid, right, I mean, what was

491
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:16.119
this a laborer love? It had
to be, yeah, Cincinnati born and

492
00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:22.079
raised. I was born in Cincinnati
in the nineteen seventies, raised there in

493
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.440
the nineteen eighties. I'm too young
to remember the Big Red Machine years,

494
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:30.119
the seventy five seventy six. But
you know, I, you know,

495
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:36.039
so of course I'm raised on those
stories. I'm you know, in the

496
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:40.480
wheelhouse of my love for baseball.
When Pete Rose is traded back to the

497
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.239
Reds from the expos in nineteen eighty
four, and and you know, probably

498
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:49.119
like most people, you know,
I remember where I was on the night

499
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.599
that Pete Rose set the all time
head record in September nineteen eighty five.

500
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:58.000
So you know, this, this
story, you know, is in part,

501
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.159
you know, was the wallpaper of
my childhood. But I approached the

502
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:06.639
book the way I've approached all my
books. This is narrative nonfiction, reported

503
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:09.840
nonfiction. You know, there's no
me, there's no I in this story.

504
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:15.280
I wanted to get inside the Pete
Rose story and hopefully tell it in

505
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:17.559
a way that it's never been told
before. You truly had to draw upon

506
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:23.679
your journalistic skills, didn't you,
because there's so many layers. You're absolutely

507
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:27.679
right about that, Dick, Yeah, I mean, you know, the

508
00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:32.000
way I began to think about Pete
Roses, he's he's like a son in

509
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:37.000
a universe that that he created by
his own hand. And and you know,

510
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:40.800
there's a gravitational pool to that,
to that place, and once you

511
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.639
get sucked in to Pee Rose's universe, as many people have over the decades,

512
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:49.400
you're you're sort of trapped there,
whether you want to be or not.

513
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:53.960
And you know it was, you
know, certainly reporting the book,

514
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:59.199
you know, came with many challenges
for those reasons, you know. I,

515
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.400
you know, I did want to
get access to Pete Rose. I

516
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:05.920
did want to speak with him.
I did ultimately do that. I mean,

517
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:10.800
he he granted me twenty seven hours
of recorded interviews before he ultimately stopped

518
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:15.599
calling me back, you know,
which he did at some point. Why

519
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:21.840
do you think he stopped calling you
back? Well, you know, Pete,

520
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.840
like a lot of people, you
know, struggles to talk about his

521
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:31.440
his missteps in life. But I
think p Rose, especially more more so

522
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:37.119
than most you know, And I, you know, I wanted to tell

523
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:42.800
the whole story here. This book, my book, Charlie Hustle is is

524
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.920
unique in that I'm not here to
make a case for Pete Rose. I'm

525
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.639
not here to make a case against
Pete Rose. I wanted to look at

526
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:54.800
his story through the prism of history, tell that story with granular reporting,

527
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:59.360
and then just write the story.
Let people come to their own conclusion.

528
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:01.599
In order to do that. You
know, we're going to talk about everything,

529
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:06.840
and we're going to talk about the
glory days of baseball, and there

530
00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:12.239
were many for Pete Rose. That
is why he becomes not just a Cincinnati

531
00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:15.199
icon, but an American icon.
You know, by the end of the

532
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:21.360
nineteen seventies, Pete Rose is one
of the most popular American period. Wow.

533
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.639
So we're going to talk about those
things. But I do also need

534
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:30.880
to talk about the missteps and the
misdeeds, and in particular the gambling.

535
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:35.880
You know, I wanted to.
I wanted this book to maybe explain what

536
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:40.079
happened in a way that it's never
been explained before. We're talking with Keith

537
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:45.039
O'Brien. He is the author of
a new book, Charlie Hustle. And

538
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.400
you just alluded to the subtitle which
includes the last glory days of baseball.

539
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:54.239
Why did you include that in the
title and where do you go with that?

540
00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.760
Well, it's really just subtext here
for the entire narrative. You know,

541
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:07.599
p Rose is in is in professional
baseball for thirty years, and think

542
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.800
about that for a second. Thirty
years. He is a rookie minor leaguer

543
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.800
in the summer of nineteen sixty and
he's banned from baseball as a manager in

544
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:22.800
August nineteen eighty nine, thirty seasons. And in that time, everything changes

545
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:28.639
in America. Everything changes in baseball. You know, when when p Rose

546
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:35.440
comes up in the nineteen sixties,
baseball is still a raw and unpolished national

547
00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:39.760
pastime. It's filled with lots of
characters who did and said things both on

548
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:45.119
and off the field that you could
never get away with. Today. It

549
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:51.719
was, you know, you know, also a league where even the most

550
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:55.119
famous players, you know, often
had to work off season jobs in order

551
00:44:55.159 --> 00:45:00.000
to make end meat. You know, all that changes by nineteen eighty nine.

552
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:02.840
You know, the players, of
course, are making more money thanks

553
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:08.599
to free agency. The owners are
making buckets more money, and the league,

554
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:14.199
in the weeks just before the first
allegation of the peace gambling on baseball,

555
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:20.159
the league signs first billion dollar television
deal. You know, baseball essentially

556
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:23.760
has gone corporate. And and you
know, we see that even play out

557
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:29.920
on the field. You know,
in the nineteen sixties and seventies, scores

558
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:35.000
were settled between players on the field. You know, you could slide hard

559
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.199
in the second base and not be
ejected. You could hit a pitch,

560
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:40.639
you could a pitcher, could you
know, put a fastball in someone's back,

561
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:45.679
to brush somebody back and not be
ejected or anything. You know,

562
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.480
by the eighties, all that's changed
too, and we see those changes still

563
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:52.400
today. And I think, just
you know, the final note on that,

564
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:57.039
Dick is, you know, I'm
still a huge baseball fan. Baseball,

565
00:45:57.119 --> 00:46:02.800
of course still matters, but you
know, it doesn't occupy a place

566
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:07.119
in the American contract today like it
did in the sixty seventies and eighties.

567
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:10.159
It simply doesn't, no, And
I was one of those kids, Keith,

568
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:15.320
who would every morning study not just
the box score of my team,

569
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:19.760
but every box score. And when
I was young, and I'm younger than

570
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.400
you are, and there weren't as
many teams, I was an American League

571
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:27.079
kid because I was a Mickey Manto
fan. I could tell you the starting

572
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.519
lineup in every American League team and
their top two pitchers. You know.

573
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:35.840
It just there are just so many
other sports now and baseball has slid to

574
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.599
I don't know where you'd rank it
among the popular sports, but yeah,

575
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:46.639
you know you mentioned a period where
there were characters and boy, Pete Rose

576
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:52.440
was front and center, wasn't he. Well, you know, he absolutely

577
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:57.760
was. And you know, I
think one thing that, you know,

578
00:46:57.880 --> 00:47:01.840
one reason why I wanted to write
the book Sick is I think in the

579
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:06.960
last thirty five years, since Pete
Rose has been banned from baseball and has

580
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:13.000
made mistake after mistake off the field, I think we have forgotten why we

581
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.480
ever cared about Pete Rose in the
first place. I think we forgot who

582
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:22.039
he really was. And you know, to go back and live inside the

583
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:27.639
story as I did, you really
do see why he becomes such a big

584
00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:30.920
deal. It's not just because he's, you know, sprinting down to first

585
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:36.400
base on a walk. It's not
just because he's sliding headfirst into third.

586
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:40.760
There is something about him and the
way he plays and the way he approaches

587
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:49.440
the game that really captivates America and
really captures, frankly, something about the

588
00:47:49.480 --> 00:47:52.039
American spirit. I mean, if
you think about think about it for a

589
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:58.320
second, this whole notion of hustling
that is part and parcel of the American

590
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.320
story. I mean, it's the
story we tell our children and our grandchildren.

591
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:05.039
If you if you work hard,
if you try hard, if you

592
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:09.119
hustle, anything can happen. That's
the story that we tell ourselves about America,

593
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:13.679
and frankly, that's the Pete Rose
story. I think that's the big

594
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:20.280
reason why we were so enamored with
him, despite you know, his obvious

595
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:27.840
flaws and folds that were oftentimes just
off stage and known to people, you

596
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:31.840
know, in the inner circle of
the Cincinnati Reds. Oh yeah, yeah.

597
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:37.559
And I truly believe just exactly what
you just said that because he embodied

598
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:43.880
the way people believe the game should
be played, and he reached the highest

599
00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:46.440
of highs in the game, but
then he's banned for life the lowest of

600
00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:50.519
lows. It's such a tragic story, if that's the right. I don't

601
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:52.960
know if that's a proper word,
but it's it's pretty sad. Oh,

602
00:48:53.039 --> 00:49:00.239
I agree with you. I've honestly, you know, began to think about

603
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:06.239
this narrative. The narrative I was
writing as a Greek tragedy, you know,

604
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:09.119
a Greek tragedy that just happened,
frankly to be playing out in and

605
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:13.760
around in American baseball. Right,
That's exactly what it was. It has

606
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:20.159
all the elements of a Greek tragedy. You know a compelling and sympathetic character

607
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.920
who comes from nothing. You know, an ordinary man in almost every way,

608
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:31.280
who has achieved extraordinary success, beyond
his wildest dreams, beyond anyone's wildest

609
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:36.440
dreams, and then loses it all, you know, through his own choices,

610
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:42.559
his own addictions, his own decisions. I mean that is a tragedy.

611
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:45.559
We're talking with Keith O'Brien. He
is an award winning journalist and a

612
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:51.119
best selling author. He has written
a book called Charlie Hustle and it's out

613
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.039
just in time for Father's Day.
Will talk more with Keith after the break

614
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.760
up. You're listening to the Best
of the Big Blue in Cider. More

615
00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:00.519
to come. You're on six thirty
w lap. It's Dick Gabriel. Welcome

616
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:05.199
back to the Best of the Big
Blue. Insider. My guest is Keith

617
00:50:05.239 --> 00:50:07.639
O'Brien. He is an author an
award winning journalist. He has written a

618
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:13.119
book called Charlie Hussele The Rise and
Fall of Pete Rose in the Last Glory

619
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:17.639
Days of Baseball. Keith, prior
to the break you were talking about Pete's

620
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:24.920
relationship with his teammates and just black
coincidence. My broadcast partner on Kentucky Baseball

621
00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:31.000
on the SEC Network is Doug Flynn, who played for the Big Red Machine

622
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:36.920
teams and was part of the trade
that brought Tom Seaver to Cincinnati and infamous

623
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.400
trade in New York. I guess
REDGS fans kind of liked it. But

624
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:45.199
he and Pete were close. Pete
introduced Doug to Doug's wife. Pete was

625
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:50.239
the guy who came into the Doug
out during a game and told Doug,

626
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:52.159
hey, you're going to be traded
in the Mets. So yeah, so

627
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:57.960
they've been friends for a while,
but Doug is still miffed at Pete for

628
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:01.360
what he did and really not apology
ding to his teammates. I guess he's

629
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:07.519
kind of obstinate like that, isn't
he. Well, of course I know

630
00:51:07.639 --> 00:51:12.199
the story of Doug Flynn. I
interviewed Doug for the book. I interviewed

631
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:19.360
many of Pete's former teammates and and
and colleagues, his opponents on other teams.

632
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:23.119
I interviewed anybody I could who crossed
paths with Pete Rose in the nineteen

633
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:29.519
sixties, seventies, and eighties in
any significant way. And you know Doug's

634
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:35.480
feelings about Pete are similar to to
many other players that I interviewed. You

635
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:40.440
know, they respect the way Pete
Rose played on the field. Frankly,

636
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:45.679
many of them were in awe of
the way he played on the field,

637
00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:51.119
But lots of them do have problems
with how you know, how he handled

638
00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:54.400
himself off of it bacically, you
know, his decision to gamble, and

639
00:51:54.440 --> 00:52:00.039
then and then you know lie about
his decision to gamble the reds, and

640
00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:06.239
I do think ultimately it is the
lie that that hurt Pete Rose and that

641
00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:09.239
her baseball more than the act of
gambling itself, no question, you know,

642
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:14.280
based on my reporting, This isn't
my opinion, Dick, this is

643
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:20.599
you know, based on my reporting, If Pete Rose it was honest in

644
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:27.599
early nineteen eighty nine when he was
first you know, accused of betting on

645
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:31.800
baseball, If he's honest at any
point that spring, as Major League Baseball

646
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:37.840
now begins to build a dossier of
factual evidence that shows he's been betting on

647
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:42.639
baseball, the whole narrative is different. Yes, don't mean, I don't

648
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:45.639
mean to suggest that Pete wouldn't have
gotten in trouble, that Pete wouldn't have

649
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:49.519
been suspended or that maybe he wouldn't
be sands. I do think he would

650
00:52:49.559 --> 00:52:53.679
have faced the serious punishment for those
choices. But one thing we have forgotten

651
00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:59.480
in the last thirty five years is
that, you know, this was bad

652
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:04.239
for baseball in nineteen eighty nine.
You know, Bart Shiamatti, Commissioner of

653
00:53:04.239 --> 00:53:08.039
Baseball, Favin and his deputy,
they didn't want this scandal, you know,

654
00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:15.599
staining the game. And so if
they could have done anything to salvage

655
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:21.039
piece in some way and put him
back together again, I believe they absolutely

656
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:23.679
would have done that. But he
can't be honest. He can't do it.

657
00:53:24.239 --> 00:53:29.159
And you know, I spent a
lot of time trying to understand why.

658
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:34.800
And you know, I've really identified
two reasons, Dick, about why

659
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:37.880
he could he couldn't be honest in
nineteen eighty nine or for years and years

660
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.480
afterwards. The first is simply that
you know, p Rose succeeds as a

661
00:53:44.519 --> 00:53:50.000
player and fails as a person for
the very same reasons. You know,

662
00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:53.360
the same qualities that make him a
successful player and iconic player are the same

663
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:59.280
reasons why he's going to, you
know, unravel as a man. You

664
00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:02.880
know, he plays with fury,
he refuses to be vulnerable on the field,

665
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:07.119
and he always believes that he's going
to prevail. These are you know,

666
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:14.960
these are real reasons why Pete succeeds
as a player. Those same things,

667
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:20.559
his intensity as a person, his
refusal to be vulnerable, his refusal

668
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:23.599
to be seen as weak, and
his belief that he's going to prevail,

669
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:29.679
is the exact same reasons why he
can't be honest in nineteen eighty nine or

670
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:32.079
for years after. But I do
think there's one other reason, and I

671
00:54:32.079 --> 00:54:37.480
think it's an important one and one
that wasn't really talked about in nineteen eighty

672
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:40.239
nine, but I think should be
today, And that is based on my

673
00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:45.159
reporting. And I'm talking about interviews
with people who are Pete's closest friends in

674
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:50.119
the nineteen eighties, people who had
a front row seat to his gambling.

675
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:54.920
They all said that Pete was absolutely
addicted to gambling. He was addicted.

676
00:54:55.440 --> 00:55:00.400
And what do addics do when confronted
with the truth of their problem. They

677
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:05.880
diminish and they deny. And I
think for all those reasons, you know,

678
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.599
Pete can't be honest and and and
he's going to go down. Listen,

679
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:13.400
when he would come to Keenland to
the racetrack. Here in Lexington,

680
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:15.920
he'd be up in the press box
and there was a betting window in the

681
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:20.679
rear of the press box, but
they would ask us to give Pete his

682
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.360
privacy and we would be yeah,
that's fine. But after the day was

683
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:27.880
done and he was gone, if
you walk back there and looked at the

684
00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:32.199
losing tickets he left behind, it
was staggering. How much money he gambled

685
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:39.239
away just just unbelievable. And the
explanation you give about his refusal to be

686
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:43.599
vulnerable is God, that's got to
be the best explanation I've ever heard.

687
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:50.960
Did you have any inkling going into
this project that that might be what developed

688
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:53.480
in terms of your perception about him, because I think you nailed it right

689
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:59.039
there. You know, well,
thank you, Dick. I. You

690
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:06.480
know, I didn't have any expectations
or preconceived notions about about why, you

691
00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:08.559
know, why this happened, why
it had to go down this way.

692
00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:14.400
You know, anytime I do any
kind of project, you try to set

693
00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:19.880
your preconceived notions aside and let the
reporting guide you. And you know,

694
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:22.400
I have to say, you know, even though in the end Pete did

695
00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:27.679
stop calling me back, you know, for whatever reason. I am really

696
00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:32.280
grateful that I did have that access, because it was through the access and

697
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:37.320
through the questions that I was able
to ask Pete directly, that I was

698
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:43.880
able to begin to wrap my mind
around what what happened here. And you

699
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:47.440
know, you know, as an
example of that, you know, in

700
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:52.119
April nineteen eighty nine, two months
into the scandal, you know, Major

701
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:58.599
League Baseball now has an incredible and
beluminous amount of information related to Pete scambling,

702
00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:01.119
and they lay it out out for
him in a two day deposition,

703
00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:07.239
a secret deposition inside a church in
Dayton. And even faced with all those

704
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.599
black and white facts, Pete can't
tell the truth. And I asked him

705
00:57:09.639 --> 00:57:15.480
why, and he said simply that
he was fighting for his life at that

706
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:19.760
point. He was fighting for his
career. He was fighting for his livelihood

707
00:57:20.039 --> 00:57:22.599
and he could not quit. He
would not give an inch. And what's

708
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:28.079
more Pete rose than that. Yep. Yeah, he ran into them the

709
00:57:28.119 --> 00:57:30.880
way he ran into Ray Fosse at
the plate in the All Star Game back

710
00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:32.960
in the day. But he got
the worst of it, didn't he.

711
00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:37.480
Man, I cannot wait to read
this book. Maybe I should have read

712
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.480
it before I talked to you,
but I just wanted to get with you

713
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:43.559
prior to Father's Day. Like I
said, this is going to be a

714
00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:46.000
great Father's Day gift. One last
question, real quickly. I just got

715
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.800
a couple of minutes left. But
there are at least a dozen other books

716
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:53.519
about Pete Rose going into this project, Keith, what was your mission in

717
00:57:53.599 --> 00:58:00.760
terms of how this book was going
to be different? Well, I would

718
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:05.679
say two reasons, you know.
The first is I feel like all too

719
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:10.519
often with projects that have been taken
on about p Rose, people have looked

720
00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:15.840
at his story through the prism of
baseball and try to tell a baseball story.

721
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:19.599
Right. And to be clear,
as I said before, there's lots

722
00:58:19.599 --> 00:58:22.920
of baseball in my book, Charlie
Hustle, It's filled with baseball. We

723
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.440
have to remind readers, you know
why we cared about him, and it's

724
00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:29.719
because of baseball. But I saw
this as a story of a man,

725
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:34.639
you know, a story of an
ordinary man, an ordinary working class neighborhood

726
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:37.440
on the West side of Cincinnati,
a man of ordinary talent and athleticis a

727
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:42.880
man who was never the best player
on his own youth baseball team. You

728
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:45.000
know who by right, never probably
should have made the Major League, right.

729
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:49.360
That's how I saw the story,
That's how I approach the story,

730
00:58:50.039 --> 00:58:54.280
and I do think frankly, my
Cincinnati roots helped me. You know,

731
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:58.639
I said before, there's no me, there's no I, there's no first

732
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:01.800
person the story. I'm not part
of it. But I do know Cincinnati.

733
00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:05.679
You know. I was born on
the West side of Cincinnati. I

734
00:59:05.719 --> 00:59:10.000
was born in Price Hill. I
played baseball in not whole leagues in Cincinnati

735
00:59:10.039 --> 00:59:15.159
with guys just like Pete Rose.
Yeah, and so you know, understanding

736
00:59:15.320 --> 00:59:23.079
the city, understanding what he meant
to the city, and letting those emotions

737
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:29.119
sort of guide my reporting. I
think we're crucial here. Keith. I

738
00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:31.159
can't thank you enough. Best of
luck with the book, and again it's

739
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:36.079
called Charlie Hustle. Keith O'Brien is
the author. You can get it on

740
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:39.280
Amazon and wherever you get your favorite
books, and you can follow keys on

741
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:45.119
Twitter knee x at Keith ob Thank
you so much, have a great summer,

742
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:49.800
and I'll be tracking the book.
Thanks so much for having me,

743
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.280
Dick. It's my pleasure. You're
listening to the best of the Big Blue

744
00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:57.679
Insider. More to come here on
six point thirty w LAP. Hey,

745
00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.280
it's Dick Gabriel and you're listening to
the best of It's a Big Blue Insider.

746
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.519
Welcome back to the Big Blue Insider, and we welcome back to our

747
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:10.599
celebrity hotline. Josh Edwards with CBS
Sports NFL draft writer covers UK football recruiting

748
01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:15.159
for The Catch. Paul's part of
the two four seven Network. Josh,

749
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:19.000
welcome back to talk to you.
Yeah, good to talk to you.

750
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:22.199
We've got a lot to talk about
with Kentucky Athletics and certainly the football program,

751
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:25.199
so I happy to be back along
with you. Yeah. And I

752
01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:29.719
was going to ask you, from
what I can tell on the recruiting trail,

753
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.119
Mark Stibbs, Vince Marrow and all, they seem to be doing pretty

754
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:37.039
well. Am I reading that right? They are, and they're getting some

755
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:43.000
very valuable contributions from the likes of
Chris Collins, the co defensive coordinator and

756
01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:46.079
defensive backs coach, as well as
the new wide receivers coach. Ti Keel

757
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:51.679
Short picked up a couple of really
talented kids this past week with Andrew Purcell,

758
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:57.639
a slot cornerback out of Alabama,
Jakayden Ferguson, a very talented,

759
01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:01.719
lean built watch receiver, wide receiver
out of Texas. So a couple of

760
01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:06.599
guys that I think are potential impact
players for Kentucky down the line. And

761
01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:09.480
they've got a couple more really talented
players in this week. So uh,

762
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:13.840
you know, over the course of
these two or three weekends here in June,

763
01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.400
I think we're going to see most
of Kentucky's recruiting class take shape.

764
01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:20.760
There are so many, as you
know, big time schools, D one

765
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:25.360
schools in Texas. Uh, and
a lot of kids playing football down there.

766
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:30.199
They can't get them all, but
I'm always impressed when Kentucky can get

767
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:32.599
a top one hundred kid out of
the state of Texas, aren't you.

768
01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:39.400
No question, It's a state that
Kentucky hasn't been overly active in during the

769
01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:45.199
Mark Stoops Area era. They got
TV Williams there early, Yeah, in

770
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:47.079
his ten years head coach. It
didn't quite work out. We didn't see

771
01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:52.960
them really recruit the state that heavily
in the years to follow. But now

772
01:01:52.960 --> 01:01:55.599
that they've got Jay bowl Weer,
they've got short to you know, have

773
01:01:55.719 --> 01:02:00.440
some very strong relationships in Texas.
I certainly I think that's an area where

774
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:05.719
they could look to take one or
two prospects a year. But it really

775
01:02:05.800 --> 01:02:09.559
just happened to work out where Shorts
had such a strong pre existing relationship with

776
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:15.239
Ferguson and Andrew Marsh who is a
top one hundred wide receiver in the nation.

777
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:20.960
You know, it just happened to
work out that he had strong relationships

778
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:24.320
with those guys dating back to his
time in Houston. Really bonds well with

779
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:29.599
the recruits because he can relate to
them. He's closer in age than most

780
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:34.840
assistant coaches are to prospective recruits,
so he's been able to really build these

781
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:38.880
natural connections with guys and that's why
you're seeing Texas athletes like Ferguson and Marsh

782
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:44.400
makers campus. You know, it's
funny when you look at Mark stoops tenure

783
01:02:44.440 --> 01:02:46.559
at Kentucky. A lot of victories
once he got rolled in a lot of

784
01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:51.800
bowl games, but a lot of
movement on his staff and sometimes guys have

785
01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:55.960
moved on to better jobs. Sometimes
Mark Stoops has moved them on, and

786
01:02:57.159 --> 01:03:00.639
I got to think they don't say
it uprount Josh. I got to think

787
01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:04.920
that so much of that is tied
to recruiting ability. Wouldn't you say,

788
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:12.760
no question. I think there's a
fine balance that is difficult to navigate sometimes

789
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:17.320
because you don't want to compromise your
coaching ability either. And one aspect of

790
01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:22.480
this that I think Kentucky does as
well as any program in the nation is

791
01:03:22.000 --> 01:03:29.320
evaluate identify those players early so they're
able to start building those relationships before the

792
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:34.119
bigger programs really become involved. That's
how Kentucky has been able to land really

793
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:39.360
talented players. Or whether it was
Devin Smith from this last year's class,

794
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:44.840
he had LSU and a lot of
programs after him, Brian Robinson out of

795
01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:46.639
Ohio, I mean, he was
being pursued by Penn State, Michigan,

796
01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:52.519
a ton of other programs. But
because Kentucky does their due diligence and they

797
01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:57.920
have a clear vision of what they're
looking for in these individual positions, specifically

798
01:03:57.960 --> 01:04:00.559
on the defensive side of the ball. We talked about the and over in

799
01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:03.920
the coaching staff. But when you
have the level of consistency and continuity the

800
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:09.119
way that they have on the defensive
side of the ball here in recent years,

801
01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:15.400
that allows them to really develop this
narrowed vision on what they're looking for

802
01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:18.079
in each position. And then they
go out, they scout these players,

803
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.880
they identify who's a great fit for
them, regardless of whether they're a three

804
01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:26.159
star or a five star, and
then they recruit them, you know,

805
01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:29.880
all the way to the very end. So yeah, Kentucky, you know,

806
01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:32.480
their coaching staff does a tremendous job. Some of them are better coaches

807
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:36.159
than they are recruiters. Some of
them are better recruiters than they are coaches,

808
01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:40.840
right, But I think what Mark
Stoops has done well is just find

809
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:45.760
that balance throughout the years, because, like you said, all these coaches

810
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:50.199
move on, they bring in other
qualified contributors to this coaching staff, and

811
01:04:50.199 --> 01:04:53.800
that's how they've been able to keep
the ball rolling for so many years.

812
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:57.480
You mentioned the state of Ohio as
we talk with Josh Edwards of two four

813
01:04:57.480 --> 01:05:00.360
to seven sports covers recruiting. As
you see his work on the cash Flows

814
01:05:00.440 --> 01:05:05.039
website and in their pages. When
Steve Clinkscale left and now he's in the

815
01:05:05.119 --> 01:05:10.360
NFL, I know, but he
left for Michigan, and Jim Harbaugh I

816
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:15.920
wondered about the recruitment of parts of
Ohio in Michigan. They're always going to

817
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:21.000
be strong with Stoops and Marrow,
but I didn't think they missed a beat

818
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:26.400
when Clink let and he's a good
recruiter as you know. But I felt

819
01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:31.159
like Stoops and and and Marrow filled
in admirably and got people who could get

820
01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:36.159
the job done up there. Yeah, no question. I mean Clinkscale and

821
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:43.000
Marrow were incredibly dynamic on the recruiting
trail in Ohio. Vince probably more so,

822
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:45.239
and that's continued to this point.
Uh. You know, I'm sure

823
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:49.079
Vince wouldn't want to admits this,
but he's probably a little bit glad that

824
01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:53.800
Clink moved on to the NFL because
you know, he was able to get

825
01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:58.760
a couple of guys out of the
Youngstown area northern northern Ohio. Uh.

826
01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:02.039
DJ Waller was one of those guys
that went to Michigan when Clink was there,

827
01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:05.159
and now he's transferred to Kentucky.
So I think the door is really

828
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:11.360
open for Vince to continue dominating that
state, just as he's done since he,

829
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:14.920
you know, arrived at Kentucky.
They've got a couple of very talented

830
01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:19.440
guys in this week on official visits. Dwayne Galloway is a four star cornerback

831
01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:26.559
out of Columbus, and then they've
got Cedric Works who is a pass rusher

832
01:06:26.639 --> 01:06:30.280
out of the Dayton somewhere in between
Dayton and Cincinnati area. So both of

833
01:06:30.320 --> 01:06:34.360
those guys are four star recruits.
They're on campus this week. So Kentucky

834
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:39.239
looking to uh looking to make more
impact in the Buckeye State. They've already

835
01:06:39.239 --> 01:06:43.360
got a couple of four stars with
Marquise Davis, are running back out of

836
01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:47.679
Cleveland, Quinton Simmons a wide receiver
out of Cincinnati. So yeah, that's

837
01:06:47.719 --> 01:06:50.559
that's always been the bread and butter
of this recruiting staff and it's going to

838
01:06:50.599 --> 01:06:55.440
continue to be that way. They
have pulled kids before out of Columbus in

839
01:06:55.480 --> 01:06:59.599
the Columbus area, and you know, Ohio State may shrug them off,

840
01:06:59.639 --> 01:07:02.480
but I know some kids Ohio State
was recruiting when they were able to do

841
01:07:02.599 --> 01:07:06.840
that. Josh, that that just
floors me, you know, no question,

842
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:12.599
because typically when Ohio State offers somebody
that they want, they're going to

843
01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:14.719
get that player in the state of
Ohio. I mean, that's just the

844
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:19.280
reality of the situation. There's such
a dynamic national force, so to go

845
01:07:19.400 --> 01:07:24.360
toe to toe with him in their
own home state says a little bit about

846
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:27.679
you know what Kentucky can do there. They're in a little bit of a

847
01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:31.480
battle right now, with Brody Lennon
a tight end out of Columbus, the

848
01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:35.159
Buckeyes offered after a camp performance a
little over a week ago. Now,

849
01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:40.639
Lenin was on campus for his official
visit at UK this past weekend. He

850
01:07:40.719 --> 01:07:45.719
goes to Ohio State this coming weekend. I haven't heard anything definitive. I

851
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:48.119
tend to think that it's probably going
to be difficult to overcome Ohio State.

852
01:07:48.239 --> 01:07:53.719
But for him to continue even honoring
his official visit, I think at least

853
01:07:53.760 --> 01:07:58.119
says a little bit about his respect
for the UK program. Yeah, in

854
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:01.679
fact, you've got a publisher,
or you've published at least the Catspaws has

855
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:09.039
a photo over your story about Brody
Lennon on the verge of making his decision

856
01:08:09.079 --> 01:08:13.400
with of course, Coach Stoops,
Coach Merrow, the kid's parents. Everybody's

857
01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:15.720
beaming in the photo except for the
young man. He has kind of an

858
01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:19.680
all business look on his face.
I didn't know what to make of am

859
01:08:19.720 --> 01:08:26.039
I reading too much into that.
I think it's a case by case basis.

860
01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:30.079
In this particular case, I think
he's he's been all business a couple

861
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:33.239
of the other pictures i've seen him
on recruiting business and things, he's been

862
01:08:33.279 --> 01:08:38.159
pretty stoic. So yeah, that
was my first first thought when I saw

863
01:08:38.199 --> 01:08:42.520
that as well, I dove into
a little bit more. I think we're

864
01:08:42.600 --> 01:08:48.840
probably over overthinking it a little bit
in this regard. I'm just going with

865
01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:51.439
my knee jerk reaction. I was
like, oh, this is interesting.

866
01:08:53.159 --> 01:08:59.239
Wrong. Yeah, you never know
what's recruiting. I will tell you real

867
01:08:59.319 --> 01:09:02.560
quickly. My favorite recruiting story just
how tough it is. When I was

868
01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:06.920
working down in Texas forty years ago, I was reading about it was a

869
01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:13.960
story about how tough it is and
Texas A and M had locked up this

870
01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:17.119
really talented linebacker. And this was
back I don't know what the rules are

871
01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:21.560
now, but the assistant coaches could
be there when they announced. So this

872
01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:28.359
assistant coach from A and M is
waiting in the school's library for this kid

873
01:09:28.359 --> 01:09:30.840
to come in, sit down and
say, I don't know if he had

874
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:32.399
a hat, I'm going to be
an aggie. Well, the kid comes

875
01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:38.359
in and sits down and says,
I'm going to LSU out of the blue,

876
01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:43.560
and the guy what and what had
happened was as he's walking down the

877
01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:49.359
hall to the library. These two
girls start singing the AGGI wore him and

878
01:09:49.439 --> 01:09:51.960
later on he said, yeah,
those girls started singing. I didn't like

879
01:09:53.039 --> 01:09:56.800
that, so I'm going to LSU. I mean, imagine making your living

880
01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:00.359
on kids like that. That drives
me. But I'm sure you run in

881
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:04.039
the stories like that. Yeah,
I mean, that's the thing everybody.

882
01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:08.680
You know, we see all these
stars next to their next to their names.

883
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:12.079
You know, it gives us a
little bit of an idea of how

884
01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:15.079
talented they are as a player.
But at the end of the day,

885
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:18.640
these are teenagers. I mean,
they make decisions for different reasons, you

886
01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:25.720
know. I always it's funny because
you know, we always talk about scheme,

887
01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:30.600
whether it's offensive or defensive scheme,
and how a recruit would fit into

888
01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:33.520
a particular scheme, And yeah,
that should be a consideration for a lot

889
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:38.439
of recruits when they're making their decisions. But I think a lot of people

890
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:44.119
would be surprised at how little that
often comes into consideration. You know,

891
01:10:44.199 --> 01:10:47.840
so many times over the years I
heard Kentucky recruits at the wide receiver position

892
01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:51.159
say how much they like Kentucky through
the football. You know, this was

893
01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.520
during the days where you know,
you had Benny Snell and everybody carrying it

894
01:10:55.560 --> 01:11:00.279
three out of four plate. So
yeah, it's it's you ever know what's

895
01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:04.199
going on in the mind of a
teenager, and that story is a perfect

896
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:09.920
example. Josh Edwards of CBS Sports
two four to seven Sports is my guest.

897
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:12.600
We'll take a break. Come right
back. Hey, it's Dick Gabriel

898
01:11:12.640 --> 01:11:16.760
and you're listening to the Best of
the Big Blue Insider. It's Dick Gabriel.

899
01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:21.319
Welcome back to the Best of the
Big Blue Insider for talking with Josh

900
01:11:21.479 --> 01:11:26.800
Edwards. He covers recruiting for two
four seven Sports. You also see him

901
01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:30.279
on cbssports dot Com. Writes a
lot about the NFL. NFL Draft came

902
01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:34.319
and went, Andrew Phillips decides to
roll the dice and it worked out for

903
01:11:34.399 --> 01:11:38.840
him. He's taken by the New
York Football Giants. What do you see

904
01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:43.000
in his future? I think he's
somebody that at this stage of his life

905
01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:45.359
is really well positioned to make the
jump to the next level. I think

906
01:11:45.359 --> 01:11:50.880
he's been well coached by Chris Collins. I think he has great knowledge of

907
01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:57.359
both man and zone coverage. He's
incredibly tough, he's been through adversity in

908
01:11:57.399 --> 01:12:01.960
his career. I just think for
a lot of rookies coming into the NFL

909
01:12:02.640 --> 01:12:06.680
it can be overwhelming. And I
think for somebody like Andrew Phillips, who

910
01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:11.600
has been through so much in his
Kentucky career, I think he's better positioned

911
01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:15.760
to overcome those early, you know, bits of adversity. So I do

912
01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:20.279
look for him to have some success
early. You know, we'll see what

913
01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:25.039
transpires of his career. You know, just in covering the NFL and the

914
01:12:25.119 --> 01:12:29.640
NFL draft, is impossible to say
just how well a player is going to

915
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:33.720
translate in most cases because there are
so many variables that come into play.

916
01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:38.000
But I think he does have a
bright future as long as, you know,

917
01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:41.760
everything stays in place, and you
know, as long as there's some

918
01:12:41.800 --> 01:12:45.399
stability in that organization because you know, they didn't have the best year last

919
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:50.119
year, you know, so are
they on a short leach for this coming

920
01:12:50.199 --> 01:12:53.520
year? And if they get fired
in the next year or two, you

921
01:12:53.560 --> 01:12:57.199
know, then what's the next coaching
staffs going to want? So it's just

922
01:12:57.279 --> 01:13:01.279
so difficult to predict the NFL.
But I think Phillips, you know,

923
01:13:01.399 --> 01:13:04.399
is in a position where he can
overcome all of that. I think he's

924
01:13:04.399 --> 01:13:09.960
going to find early success and be
asked to contribute very early in his time

925
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:13.720
as a Giant. Yeah, and
then Wandale Robinson, of course with the

926
01:13:13.800 --> 01:13:17.920
Giants, he was an early pick. Will let us an early pick obviously.

927
01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:23.159
Anytime you see kids look at Kentucky
basketball, you see kids going to

928
01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:26.920
the pros. That might be your
best recruiting weapon overall, isn't it.

929
01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:30.720
Yeah. I mean, you have
to be able to get players to the

930
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:35.039
NFL. That's kind of where every
recruit coming from high school wants to be.

931
01:13:36.039 --> 01:13:39.199
So you need to be able to
show them some kind of a track

932
01:13:39.239 --> 01:13:42.960
record of doing that, and I
think Kentucky has and I think they will

933
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:46.000
continue to do so, especially as
they get more talented recruits. You know,

934
01:13:46.039 --> 01:13:49.479
we talked at the top of the
show about all these four star recruits

935
01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:56.399
that have either committed to Kentucky or
have visited Kentucky. You know, there's

936
01:13:56.439 --> 01:14:00.600
a lot to be said about putting
a player in the right position and coaching

937
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:04.279
them up and all of that,
but you know, these stars, there

938
01:14:04.319 --> 01:14:09.520
is a reason for the stars.
It's typically an indicator of just how talented

939
01:14:09.560 --> 01:14:13.359
they are. So if you can
get more talented players, give them that

940
01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:17.079
same coaching, you know, developed
them in the same way, then there's

941
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:23.359
no reason that they should not also
have great success as a collegiate player and

942
01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:26.720
then potentially move on to the NFL. So I think that's kind of Kentucky's

943
01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:30.319
model that they've done so well,
is they're looking for those pro traits when

944
01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:35.000
they're evaluating these high school players.
You know, with the skill positions,

945
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:40.840
you're looking for a sub eleven second
one dash that gives you a little bit

946
01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:44.560
of an idea of the type of
speed that they bring to the position,

947
01:14:44.600 --> 01:14:47.800
whether it's running back or watch receiver, cornerback. You know, one thing

948
01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:54.079
that they saw in Andrew Phillips was
his triple jump ability in track and field.

949
01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:59.760
Just showed a little bit of his
explosive nature. And of course we

950
01:14:59.800 --> 01:15:01.920
saw but he was a high level
athlete when he went to the NFL combine.

951
01:15:01.960 --> 01:15:06.159
This a couple months ago, four
months ago, now, you know,

952
01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:10.199
and a lot of NFL teams need
to see those characteristics. They need

953
01:15:10.279 --> 01:15:13.199
to see the height and weight,
they need to see your athletic testing and

954
01:15:13.239 --> 01:15:17.600
make sure that's all verified before you
are capable of becoming a top one hundred

955
01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:23.760
overall pick. So Kentucky looks for
those trades coming out of high school,

956
01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:27.000
they bring them into the program,
they develop them, and then they send

957
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.680
them onto the NFL. That's kind
of been the recipe for their success ever

958
01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:34.560
since Mark Stupseras. I have to
admit I was very surprised, not just

959
01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:42.000
at Carrington Valentine left early, but
that he has excelled with my beloved Green

960
01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:45.760
Bay Packers. I'm delighted by that. So, you know, maybe we'll

961
01:15:45.760 --> 01:15:50.720
see the same trajectory for Andrew Phillips. You've posted about Dion Walker. So

962
01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:56.319
when you're looking at NFL prospects on
this Kentucky team, I got to think

963
01:15:56.319 --> 01:16:00.960
that the scouts and the gms can't
wait to get him into a combine,

964
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:04.119
a camp whatever, start testing him
and poking and prodding. You said he

965
01:16:04.159 --> 01:16:08.880
wants to play at three twenty.
I can't remember when he played at last

966
01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:13.680
year. When he arrived in the
program, I want to say it was

967
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:19.359
I want to say it was like
three p fifty plus potentially. So he's

968
01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:23.960
done a lot of work in the
weight room, and you know, he's

969
01:16:24.079 --> 01:16:29.760
very intentional about the upcoming season.
He's been training with you know, pass

970
01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:34.239
rush experts to find more consistency and
more ways to be dominant. So I

971
01:16:34.239 --> 01:16:39.439
think he's in for a very good
season in the SEC. You know,

972
01:16:39.479 --> 01:16:42.800
they haven't asked him to play nose
tackle, which is something that a player

973
01:16:42.880 --> 01:16:45.760
his sizes traditionally asked to do.
They give him the freedom to kind of

974
01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:49.600
work on the space and do his
own thing, and that's why he's been

975
01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:54.800
so successful. That's why he's coveted
by NFL teams. He's just got this

976
01:16:55.039 --> 01:17:00.439
rare combination of size, speed,
and athleticism. His footwork is fantastic.

977
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:02.960
So I think Kentucky fans are going
to see him take his game to another

978
01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:08.680
level this year because he is taking
this so seriously. Just just a great

979
01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:13.079
kid, too, very coachable from
everything that I've heard he's he's been,

980
01:17:14.319 --> 01:17:16.920
you know, very important in the
early development of the young players in the

981
01:17:16.960 --> 01:17:21.359
program, just been hands on and
trying to bring them along. So everything

982
01:17:21.399 --> 01:17:28.239
that you want in a potential,
you know, difference making defender. That's

983
01:17:28.279 --> 01:17:32.680
exactly what Beyond Walker is. If
he certainly had opportunities, very lucrative opportunities

984
01:17:32.720 --> 01:17:38.600
to go elsewhere this offseason, chose
to stay at Kentucky, and you know,

985
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:42.119
I think he's in for a great
year. He is Josh Edwards.

986
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:45.600
You can see his work on the
cash Balls website two four seven sports,

987
01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:48.720
CBS sports dot Com as well.
Josh, thank you so much as always,

988
01:17:48.760 --> 01:17:51.720
and I hope to talk to you
again soon. Absolutely always happy to

989
01:17:51.760 --> 01:17:55.680
do it. That I'll do it
for now. Thanks for joining us for

990
01:17:55.760 --> 01:17:59.520
this special edition the best of the
Big Blue Insider. That's it. Good

991
01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:00.399
night from a garage in Lexington.