WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.639 This is Open Lines Radio. Here again your host, UFO paranormal researcher and 2 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:19.839 journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is 3 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:29.399 Alejandro Rock and we have another exciting show because we have a major debunker. 4 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.479 Just kidding. Everybody says this poor guy's a debunker, but he's just a 5 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:40.479 hardworking photo and video analyst. He has move On's analyst, Mark di'antonio, 6 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:45.359 and he's worked on a lot of great cases lately. And one of the 7 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:51.479 things I want to do is talk to him about his UFO experiences, how 8 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:58.759 he feels about UFOs, some of his theories and ideas, because often people 9 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.159 think that, you know, he does this debunking stuff and it's not his 10 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:08.519 fault if Unfortunately, there are many people hoaxing UFO photos and if you are 11 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:14.640 one of those people, stop it. That's not cool. So we'll be 12 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:19.280 talking to him about some of this stuff because he does have some great information 13 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:22.879 and he's a really neat guy, real funny guy. So this is going 14 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.200 to be a really good show. I'm really excited about it. But welcome 15 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:30.560 to the show. At our new time at seven pm on Mondays, Arizona 16 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:36.920 Slash Pacific time right now, so we're a little earlier. So hopefully our 17 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.640 buddies out there in the United Kingdom don't have to stay up, you know, 18 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:45.519 till the wee hours of the morning to hear our show. Now they 19 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:49.439 just have to stay up into the very big hours of the night to listen 20 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.280 to the show. But we do very very much appreciate our UK, our 21 00:01:53.319 --> 00:02:00.319 Philippines and our other international listeners that we have throughout the world to email us 22 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.799 with their stories. That's always a lot of fun. Also, I want 23 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.599 to remind you, and we'll have a little reminder coming up here a little 24 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:12.199 promo about the UFO Congress because we're signing up new people all the time. 25 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:17.520 And if you saw the television show Fact or Faked, where they were in 26 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:24.520 Arizona and they investigated a gentleman by the name of Jeff Willis who had some 27 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:30.639 UFO videos and then they tried to debunk them, essentially tried to recreate them 28 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:36.560 themselves and weren't able to And after they weren't able to do that, they 29 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:40.280 decided to shoot some night vision of the sky themselves and they got several UFO 30 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:45.400 videos that were really good that shocked the heck out of them, and you 31 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:47.879 know, they went back to their analysis and they thought, wow, these 32 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:53.039 really were UFOs. We can't explain what the heck these lights flying around the 33 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.080 sky going one direction super fasten turning around and go the other direction and stuff 34 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.800 like that. So you can check that out. I think they have most 35 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:04.479 of the parts of it on YouTube. They even have it actually at their 36 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:10.240 website. Fact or Faked is that what it's called fact or faked the UFO 37 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:15.520 shows, So check it out. Although we're a good buddy, Chuck Zukowski 38 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:20.719 said, the cattle mutilation episode was really bad, so don't watch that one. 39 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:23.039 Just watch the Arizona one. But the point I was getting at, 40 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:29.520 which I almost forgot, was that Jeff Willis, who took that video that 41 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:34.919 they analyzed, will be hosting and doing a little talk at the SkyWatch that 42 00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:38.919 we're going to have at the UFO Congress. We're really excited about this because 43 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:46.319 we've talked the people who essentially kind of hosts the area to allow us to 44 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:52.360 stay later into the night from about ten pm till midnight. Will actually be 45 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.479 there all the way from seven pm till midnight, but they usually kick everyone 46 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:00.599 out at ten o'clock. They're gonna let us stay and do some guy watching. 47 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:04.199 We're gonna have some night vision goggles. We're gonna have Jason and Maureen, 48 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:10.240 which is very, very exciting to have them there with us. We'll 49 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.960 have the whole crew. Antonio, Michael Shrat, our video guy, Tom 50 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:19.480 Ruffin, DJ, John Reo, Angela Reo. If you know who those 51 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:24.199 guys are, some of you don't because they kind of stay incognito. They 52 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:27.560 don't like toay, like get in front of the cameras and everything. But 53 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:31.560 these are all people who help make Open Minds run. And speaking of running, 54 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:40.040 we're so excited about our magazine because our new magazine is being shipped very 55 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:45.399 soon. Here the latest edition, which is mainly focused abound around UFO landings 56 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.240 and the Rendalschrimp Forest case. Now, if you're thinking, wow, that's 57 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:54.639 great, you have to be a subscriber to get it in the next couple 58 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:58.920 of weeks, otherwise you're gonna have to wait and get it from the bookstores. 59 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.639 The bookstore are loving it, many of them. We've gotten a lot 60 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:08.639 of great feedback. We've heard of bookstores that are are just really excited and 61 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.639 trying to carry as much as they can, and so they're going fairly quick 62 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.560 at the bookstore. If you want to get yours as soon as possible, 63 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:19.920 which I advise, because you want to be up on the latest and greatest. 64 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:24.839 You want to be the guy to go to the water cooler and say, 65 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:29.160 so, did you guys know XYZ about Rendelstrom Forrest? Because if you 66 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:31.959 don't get the subscribe and get the magazine earlier, then your buddy at work 67 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.040 is going to upstage you and he's going to say, hey, yeah, 68 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:38.360 I knew that. Did you know this? And you'll be like, oh 69 00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:41.560 man, I don't have the latest info, and you'll feel very foolish. 70 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:46.199 So you need to subscribe to get the magazine as soon as possible, and 71 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:53.040 you'll have that pretty little puppy in your hands within hopefully within like a couple 72 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:56.720 of weeks. If you go to the website open Minds dot tv and subscribe 73 00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:01.240 it right now. It's beautiful as usual and we're just always extremely excited about 74 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:04.519 it, and in fact, we've heard from most upologists they love it. 75 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:10.199 Call up your favorite ufologists Facebook, email them and say what do you think 76 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:14.160 of this whole Open Minds magazine thing? And they'll probably say, you know 77 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:17.480 what, I think it's awesome and you should get it because they're all our 78 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:21.480 buddies. They've all mostly been on the show or they're scheduled to be on 79 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:26.639 the show, and they're all loving it. So we are very proud and 80 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.399 happy that that is the case. Then we include stories from some of your 81 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.759 favorite ufologists, So we're very very happy about the magazine and we hope you 82 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:41.839 love it too. One of the great things about our website and move On's 83 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:46.399 website because they host our news, is that we have news updates on a 84 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:54.319 regular basis. This is conventional news covering the whole UFO arena. And one 85 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:58.800 of the great things about our radio show is that we have Jason McClellan here 86 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:03.560 to talk about the news. And the biggest news story I didn't touch on 87 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.000 because I wasn't sure if you were going to turn out. I forgot to 88 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:14.399 ask you, So let's see if you do, we'll see. Greetings Doctor 89 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.560 Rolejandro, and hello world. This is your Open Minds News bree for Monday, 90 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:23.480 September thirteenth, twenty ten. We'll start with a cool story, and 91 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:30.199 this story reminds me a lot of ASU's theoretical physicist Paul Davies ah in July 92 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:34.160 of two thousand and one, the rain turned red in India. Witness is 93 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.959 also reported seeing green, yellow, and black rain in the following months. 94 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.639 The initial theory was that sand or dust was giving the rain its colored appearance, 95 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.040 but a local physicist looked at the rain under a microscope and surprisingly he 96 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:51.079 found that the water contained cells that looked like bugs. This led him to 97 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:56.639 theorize that the bug like cells originated from a comet that had exploded above the 98 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:01.720 Earth and seated clouds. Having studied these cells for nine years, the physicist 99 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.879 says that they are unlike anything found on Earth. It has been determined that 100 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:11.319 the cells begin to reproduce at extreme temperatures nearly two hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit. 101 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:15.439 Many spores on Earth can survive that kind of heat, but none have 102 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:20.240 been found that are capable of reproducing at that temperature. The cells also display 103 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:24.839 odd fluorescing behavior, as it's called the cells change color when exposed to UV 104 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:31.039 light. This behavior remarkably corresponds with the red emissions from the red rectangle planetary 105 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:37.200 nebula that is twenty three hundred light years away. This similarity doesn't prove extraterrestrial 106 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:41.919 origin, but could suggest it. It's also interesting to note that these cells 107 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:46.840 contain no DNA. Yeah, really weird and it's an exciting story. One 108 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.720 because it reminds me of the song Red Rain, which I like. And 109 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:58.720 two because it's so strange. The Red Rain step has always been very strange. 110 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:03.000 It's been a phenomena for a while. It's kind of a paranormal thing. 111 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.720 But you know what, one thing we should probably mention before moving on, 112 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:11.080 and we could discuss this together, and now we're going to say it 113 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:16.080 at the top, but I thought it might be Her first story is Wendell. 114 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:18.720 So our good buddy Wendell Stevens, because if you've been to the website, 115 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:24.159 you have noticed last week was Wendle week and we still even have some 116 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:31.039 more information, and that was because unfortunately, our good friend, the retired 117 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:37.320 Lieutenant Colonel Wendell Stevens passed away at eighty seven last Tuesday, a week from 118 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.919 tomorrow, at around four point thirty. We've got some conflicting times of like 119 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.519 four twenty or four forty four, you know, short period of time, 120 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:50.039 but essentially around four thirty PM in the Tuston area, which is where he 121 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:54.200 is from. And we were fortunate enough, of course to as you know, 122 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.919 if you're a subscriber to our magazine or watch the website, have a 123 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:05.840 very close relation ship with him because we have his archives and also he spent 124 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:09.399 a lot of time with us, you know, giving us information, giving 125 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.639 us interviews, and he like hanging out here. He was really excited and 126 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:20.519 happy about a group that's into upology to get his information out, and on 127 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:24.399 our website we've been putting up UFO video pictures and things like that. So 128 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.679 unfortunately he has passed away, if you were not aware, and we were 129 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.840 just very fortunate to have him. We have a wonderful video on our website 130 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:37.559 that our executive producer Tom Ruffin put together a tribute to Wendall. What sort 131 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:43.919 of final interview that Wendell gave us here? And he did spend so much 132 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.919 time with us here and really felt like just another member of Open Minds, 133 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:52.799 part of the family. Yeah. Is there any particular case or anything you 134 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.799 can think of that really struck you with him? You know, every time 135 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.639 I got to sit down with him, it was something new. I always 136 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:07.159 heard another story from Wendell Wendall always had an unlimited supply of stories from his 137 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:13.559 forty seven years of research, so not one single story sticks out in my 138 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:18.240 mind. It was just the fact that there was always a wealth of knowledge, 139 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:24.240 this unlimited supply of stories from Wendell, and it was like this very 140 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:28.519 knowledged person sharing his wisdom with people, and he just kind of sit around 141 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.440 in the circle, staring and waiting to see what he would say next. 142 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.320 And I never saw him get upset, never heard him say anything bad about 143 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:41.480 anybody, even though there are a lot of especially the Billy Meyer haters out 144 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:46.080 there and stuff, who have been really mean to him. And even now 145 00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.200 that he's passed, unfortunately, there are people who have said some really mean 146 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:56.720 things about him or just judgmental about maybe his past and things. But he 147 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.159 was always a very kind, kind person absolutely mm hmm. So we'll definitely 148 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.440 miss him. And I wanted to say something sooner rather than later on that. 149 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:09.720 So sorry for interrupting, but now you have me so depressed. I 150 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:11.200 don't think I can go on. You can do it because this is you 151 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.240 know, all right, Well, thank you. I didn't start it off 152 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:18.759 because of that reason, but we both probably said, oh, you're going 153 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:20.600 to do it. No, you're going to do it. So far, 154 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.240 well, this story has me. I don't know, I don't know how 155 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.679 I feel about this one. I think I'm a little upset about it. 156 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.320 But Hollywood has many UFO themed movies coming to the big screen, but civil 157 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.159 shows are also coming to television. One of these shows will star Billy Ray, 158 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:41.360 Cyrus and his son Trace running around investigating conspiracy theories. Like most of 159 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:46.679 these reality type shows, it sounds like this one will mostly focus on debunking 160 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:50.960 and more about pushing Billy Ray's other kid into the spotlight rather than focusing on 161 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:58.159 investigations. And with the title UFO unbelievably freaking obvious, I'm not expecting too 162 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:03.039 much out of this Life Channel show. Yeah, neither of I unfortunately. 163 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:07.559 I mean, they had a great hit with Hannah Montana. I don't know 164 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:11.240 if they're going to have a hit with this one. And yeah, it 165 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.799 sounds like they're just going to go around debunking and unfortunately, you know, 166 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.320 well we hope they do. We'll see if they do their research. I'm 167 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:22.159 skeptical that a country seeing or in the center going to do the research necessary. 168 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.080 But you know, they both supposedly have an interest in the subject. 169 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:31.159 Whatever that means. You know. Billy ray Ciris was initially scheduled to play 170 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:35.639 at the Roswell Festival but pulled out at the last minute. But you know, 171 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.879 they they are supposed to have an interest in the subject. We'll see 172 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.240 what they do with it. Yeah, we'll see, hopefully, hope for 173 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.759 the best, but be prepared for what media usually does with this subject. 174 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:52.519 We'll be prepared for what we're expecting. Yeah. James Oberg, a space 175 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:58.080 analyst for NBC News, recently criticized Leslie Keyne's new book UFO's General's Pilots and 176 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.279 Government Officials go on the record saying the book is based on questionable foundation. 177 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:09.279 Contrary to Keene's assertion, Obert calls pilots poor observers. In response to his 178 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:13.519 comments, Keenes wrote a piece. He wrote a piece on the ms MS 179 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:20.879 MSNBC Too Many Letters Together MSNBC dot Com, pointing out that Oberg seems to 180 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.159 have missed the point behind her book, and even suggests that he might not 181 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.720 have even read the book that carefully. She admits that ninety five percent of 182 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.120 UFO sightings are eventually identified and her book is only concerned with the remaining five 183 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:35.840 percent. She also points out that Oberg is not really objective because he is 184 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:41.399 a founding fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, a group whose aim is 185 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:46.519 to debunk UFOs and any other unexplained phenomena that challenge our familiar way of thinking. 186 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.639 Yeah, very frustrating, because he's referring, you know, to a 187 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.080 lot of cases she not doesn't even have in her book. The other thing, 188 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.039 he says pilots are bad observers because they're too busy flying their plane, 189 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:03.240 and he's referring commercial planes where they've got to take evasive action rather than observe 190 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:09.480 something. But the cases in her book are often jet fighters who are observing 191 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:16.279 these things and flowing too to observe these things. He's also neglecting the fact 192 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:24.799 that some of these pilots were generals or people who were overseeing these incidents, 193 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:30.960 which included radar, so it wasn't just a visual anecdotal type of thing, 194 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:35.639 and included radar and an entire you know, sorty of planes and things. 195 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.279 And then you have Fistimon thing, for example, who was a pilot, 196 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.679 but he was on the ground, standing on the ground when he saw the 197 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:48.519 Phoenix lights, and it's his opinion that those that was a huge craft that 198 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:54.080 was beyond our technology, that is extraterrestrial. So his argument is not really 199 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.279 focused on what the meat of her book is about. And some of what 200 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:02.759 he did let her to believe. He didn't read that carefully, which he 201 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.840 was criticizing and quoting things she said in the book when she didn't say those 202 00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.279 things. Many of the things in the books were actually written by the witnesses 203 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.679 themselves exactly. They weren't her quotes. They were the witnesses of people like 204 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.679 generals, like right in the Belgium flap and in the Iranian situation. Stuff 205 00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:25.600 like that. Great books, so go check it out. Absolutely. Here's 206 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:29.919 some potentially good news. Britain's government announced that it will be reviewing the country's 207 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:34.360 extradition policy in light of recent controversial cases, including the case of hacker Gary 208 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.720 McKinnon, a man the US wants to extradize to face charges of hacking military 209 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:44.720 and NASA computers in search of records of UFO activity. A small panel will 210 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.279 be appointed to determine whether or not the existing extradition policy with the US is 211 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.679 unbalanced. This offers some new hope for McKinnon, but the panel will not 212 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.799 issue their report until the end of next summer, meaning that his already eight 213 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:03.960 year ordeal doesn't show signs of anytime soon. Mm hmm. Yeah. And 214 00:17:03.079 --> 00:17:07.359 what is interesting too is that the president, you know, which you covered 215 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.359 a few weeks ago, but that's kind of interesting at the subject, this 216 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.279 subject got brought up with Obama and he said he would take appropriate action, 217 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:19.279 which seems like he's going to be lenient, but he knows what that means. 218 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:25.240 That's a very land answer. It's a very safe answer that doesn't say 219 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.359 anything. Yeah, not really, but you do bring up a good point. 220 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:32.079 I mean, it's it's remarkable how much media attention this case has got. 221 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.440 Yeah, yep, a lot. And unfortunately, you know, we 222 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.200 wrote a story on it, but the meat of what he found was well, 223 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:41.960 there wasn't a whole lot of meat. It is anecdotal type of stuff. 224 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:48.279 So we'll see what happens. The cool thing is is if there is 225 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.519 a trial here, it'll get lots of media attention, right, if it's 226 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.799 out there, it'll get some that'll probably cross the lake, as they say, 227 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.720 but here we get more. I believe it's pond, pond across the 228 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:07.920 pond. It's bigger than the pond. We'll have to ask our friend Ross 229 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.440 Townsworth. Yeah, as I'd mentioned the past couple of weeks, the push 230 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:17.079 for UFO tourism seems to be popular. Right now, here's another destination being 231 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.359 pushed, Area fifty one. Now that might sound odd to some of you, 232 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:25.079 because Area fifty one is a highly guarded, top secret military base after 233 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.160 all, So what could there possibly be to do on a tour of a 234 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:32.079 place you can't actually get to. Well, the Area fifty one tour includes 235 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:36.079 a tour of Groom Lake, which is sure to be met by forceful involvement 236 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:41.039 by the military. The tour also travels to the Extraterrestrial Highway, stops at 237 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.640 the Little Alien Restaurant, and goes by many signs that say things like top 238 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:52.240 secret military facility and use of deadly forth authorized, which is sure to make 239 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.880 you feel quite welcome. Yeah, being monitored at every minute and having guards 240 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.400 ready to confront trespassers, it's no surprise that the Air fifty one tour is 241 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.920 being pushed as an extreme tour. And what might you expect to pay for 242 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:08.119 the pleasure of risking your life. One hundred and eighty dollars will buy you 243 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.400 a ticket for an area fifty one tour. What if your kids want to 244 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:17.000 go, children's tickets are available for one hundred and sixty dollars. That's that's 245 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:19.559 relatively cheap, you know. And if I just feel worried, if you're 246 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.279 camping out there and you go to the restroom in the middle of the night, 247 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:27.880 they're probably going to be watching you with night visions, so you're probably 248 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:34.440 watched even in an instant So you know, good for them, I've got 249 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:41.880 nothing to hide. Less than two months after the still unidentified UFO appeared hovering 250 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:47.160 above an airport and hangs out, another UFO has been seen in China. 251 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:51.599 The bright object was visible for at least three hours and was witnessed by many. 252 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.880 Another bright, flickering object appeared above the main object and was visible for 253 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:02.119 about ten minutes. Two news reporters follow the object and we're able to capture 254 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:10.160 photos and video. Right, yeah, I mean China's hotspot. Are you 255 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:14.079 talking about the weather or the UFOs? UFO? Okay, it's hot, 256 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.880 No, this is the hot spot. It really seems like it. You 257 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:22.519 know, every week we have many multiple fightings in China, and these are 258 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.240 sightings that are seen by mass groups of people. Well, what I think 259 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:30.920 is interesting too is that it almost seems to be the UK three years ago. 260 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:36.440 Three years ago, UK media started picking up on sightings and really never 261 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.279 stopped. It's been huge. And then the files get released out in the 262 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:45.279 UK which causes more media attention, and UFOs are in the media and the 263 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.160 UK constantly. Now China seems to be kind of the same thing. It's 264 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:56.720 this momentum that's taking shape out there and UFOs are more and more in the 265 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:02.680 media in China, which is pretty exciting because in the past, especially with 266 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:07.519 upology, it's been hard to know what's going on out there because at least 267 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.519 a couple of papers, Chinese papers that have an English version, they really 268 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.599 didn't cover so much. So it's really interesting to have it. It's great 269 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.839 for our news headlines because now we got even more headlines to post internationally. 270 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:25.759 But it's cool to see an interest being taken up out there and hopefully that 271 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:30.680 momentum will continue. Actually, you know, as you probably know too obviously 272 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:34.559 because you're covering these stories, but Australia seems to be picking up on a 273 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:40.079 lot of UFO stories and you see more of their news, including UFO stories. 274 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:45.200 So we've got more of these countries with its heavy UFO coverage, right, 275 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.759 And that's certainly not to say that things are slowing down in the UK 276 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.559 at all, Right, they're not all every time in the UK. And 277 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.680 the thing with the UK right now, it seems that you know, they 278 00:21:53.759 --> 00:22:00.400 have their modern day weather balloon in the Chinese lanterns. There's so many sightings, 279 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.400 yet everything is being blamed on Chinese lanterns. Yeah, a little overdoing 280 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.000 it with the Chinese lanterns. Of course they're probably right, a lot of 281 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.720 them are, but not everything, you know, not a lot of these 282 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:18.200 things that don't have any similarity to Chinese lanterns. Talking about another country, 283 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.119 Russia may create a center for UFO studies if Kissan Iliamsanov has his way, 284 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:30.839 Iliamsanov, who was the president of Russia's Republic of Kalnikmikia. Are they felt 285 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.880 it wrong they didn't put the Ia in that story? Yeah, absolutely right, 286 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.400 because I remember it Kalmikia because he's in the news again today, right, 287 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.240 and it didn't think it has the Ia Kalmikia. That is what it 288 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.359 is supposed to be Kalnikia, so the Republic of Kalmikia, and he's also 289 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.359 the president of the World Chess Federation. He would like to build or he'd 290 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:53.200 like Russia to create a center for epology. He has been quite outspoken in 291 00:22:53.279 --> 00:23:00.160 the past about his personal encounter with extraterrestrials. Iliamsanov leaves office next month and 292 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.160 this could give him more time to devote to pushing the idea of the UFO 293 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.599 Center. Yeah, he was in the news today because he's leaving office now 294 00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:11.400 they're trying to kick him out as well. His opponents are trying to take 295 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.720 over, which they did this before when he was in the news. They're 296 00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.119 trying to say, oh, he's into UFOs and aliens, so we need 297 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.279 to kick him out as the president of the Chets Federation. But it didn't 298 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:25.799 work last time, so we'll see if it works this time. And even 299 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.640 if it does, it doesn't matter because this guy is independently wealthy anyway. 300 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:33.279 But that was, you know, really cool, and they did that initially 301 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:38.519 when they brought so much attention to that that they wanted to the president to 302 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.720 look into him see if he was a security risk because he may have told 303 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:48.000 things to aliens, right, that's fantastic. Yeah, it's so funny, 304 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:56.839 this whole talk about exopolitics. Yeah, with this guy doing some unauthorized diplomatic 305 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:03.480 relations with extraterrestrials. Secrets to tell. An Australian woman claims that back in 306 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:08.160 nineteen sixty nine, she was cut off by two alien beings in a spaceship 307 00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:14.559 shaped like a Ford station wagon. Her daughter told her there was nothing to 308 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:18.680 be afraid of, but couldn't explain why she said that. It just came 309 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.440 out of her mouth. The station wagon ship took off rapidly, surrounded by 310 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:27.279 green, blue, and red flames. This is just one of the experiences 311 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:33.759 told when ABC Morning Show hosts. An ABC Morning Show host invited UFO believers 312 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.799 to share their stories. Yeah, well that sounds more like back to the 313 00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:41.720 future. I was thinking it sounded like, gotta get back to other things 314 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:47.039 that went on during nineteen sixty nine, But that would be explained by the 315 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.960 red and blue and green flames. Trippy, but you know in the San 316 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:57.160 Louis Valley there's a phenomena at night and during the day. They kind of 317 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:02.640 had it in close encounters where it looks like there's a car driving along the 318 00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:07.400 road and then takes off. Sometimes they during the day they see what looks 319 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.039 like a silver ball, you know, something when it's far off and the 320 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.359 San Luis Valley's flat, so you could see the road far off and you 321 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.599 see the thing where or people have seen, you know, at night, 322 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:19.920 what looks like headlights behind him, but all of a sudden they take off, 323 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.759 kind of like close encounters where he waves it on and instead of going 324 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:29.519 around, it goes over. Let's do it one more sighting, Let's do 325 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.279 it. Witnesses in Magdalena, Columbia, observed the UFO and the skylast Wednesday 326 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:38.640 in the afternoon. The UFO was visible for fifteen minutes before disappearing. One 327 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.240 of the witnesses managed to capture a photo of the object on his cell phone. 328 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:48.960 It's interesting to note that the Colombian Space Commission contacted the witness who photographed 329 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.680 the UFO. That's pretty cool. They want to see what he's got. 330 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.359 Hopefully it's something interesting and they'll put it on the internet. That'd be great, 331 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:00.680 Alejando. That did for the new new Remember to check out these stories 332 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.920 and more at Openlinds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. I'm 333 00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:10.400 your Open Minds News correspondent Jason McClellan, and you've been briefed. Ah, 334 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:12.519 right, thank you, Jason. Lots of cool stuff, and you might 335 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.240 notice Jason and I are wearing some cool new hats, Open Minds Hats here. 336 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:25.799 You'll be able to get those in the afternoon tomorrow at our Openminds dot 337 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.920 TV. You'll be able to purchase these hats because the girl who does them, 338 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.319 Maureen, likes to kind of come in, make some coffee, hang 339 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:38.079 out for a while and do her nails. And she just kind of takes 340 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:42.400 it easy until the afternoon, maybe takes a nap, and then after lunch 341 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:48.400 hopefully, hopefully she'll get around to it. But now actually she's extremely busy 342 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:53.200 doing twelve different jobs at once, like all of us, because we got 343 00:26:53.279 --> 00:27:00.519 a lot going on for just a few people here, and lot going on 344 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:04.319 on our website, and just to kind of highlight what Jason already mentioned some 345 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:10.359 of the stuff we have online. But we do have our story from Wendell 346 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:14.880 Stevens, and I think it's probably one of his last stories where he kind 347 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.839 of highlighted his work. So he wrote it as a first person type of 348 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.640 thing his work over the years, and that we posted in the first magazine, 349 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:27.680 but we decided that would be a great article to put online for everybody 350 00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:32.680 who hasn't seen the magazine yet to be able to read. So that's a 351 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.000 great interview that we have on We also put up some clips from some of 352 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.720 our last interviews because he was here so often that you know, occasionally he 353 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.880 would tell his stories, like Jason talked about, so we would get them 354 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.759 on camera and interview them and get some of these things documented. So, 355 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:56.039 like he mentioned, Tom, our executive video producer, put together a really 356 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:02.839 great YouTube video that you can watch has some of that information and then other 357 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.480 information about Windle himself self, so a short bio and things like that. 358 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:11.279 So we put a lot of window stuff up there to honor him and the 359 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.160 great work that he's done, which, as anybody knows who's followed his career, 360 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:21.720 he has done a lot of amazing things and had a lot of amazing 361 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:26.559 experiences. In fact, I interviewed him a while ago on video right here 362 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.759 in this studio. He was sitting next to me on this very table, 363 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:36.240 I think, and that video is also online where you can watch that, 364 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:41.599 and my interview with him, and I really delved into some of his background 365 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.319 from years and years ago in the Air Force in the Blue Book period of 366 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.839 time, which was really interesting because as an Air Force officer or back then 367 00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:53.680 he was well, he was still an officer for much of his career he 368 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:59.079 was investigating UFOs, you know, some of the UFO experiences they had going 369 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:03.839 all the way back to the forties. So very interesting person with an incredible 370 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.599 career, and you'll be able to see all of that online. But it 371 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.400 is time for us to take a short little break so we can get our 372 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:18.200 guests on the line and we can begin our interview with Mark s'anntonio. So 373 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.759 whole tight. We got a couple of promos will show or we'll let you 374 00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:42.240 listen to, and then we got Mark Open Mind. Production is Profit presents 375 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:45.440 the twenty anniversary of the International UFO Congress coming to its new home with the 376 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:48.200 Ratis and portmant Galley Zorton Casino at cost Still, Arizona. This is the 377 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:52.680 premier anual event for UFO researchers, enthusiasts, and the general public with an 378 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.119 interest in mysterious phenomena. Come listen to expert euthologists, government officials, and 379 00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.440 respective scientists presenting information relating to the UFOs, extraterrestrials, abductions, cover ups 380 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.640 and more. The largest UFO conference in the country, twentieth Anniversary of the 381 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.920 International UFO Congress to explay February twenty third to February twenty seven. To the 382 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.640 UFO Congress dot com for more information, including sponsorship and vendor opportunities. Having 383 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.839 been referred to as the CNN of UFOs, openminds dot tv is the hub 384 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:21.720 for news relating to the alien UFOs phenomenon, which daily updates of exclusive photos, 385 00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:26.000 studios, merchandise, and investigations. Openminds dot tv is bringing UFO and 386 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:30.000 extraterrestrial research to global audience. The website features the open Mind Stores, doctor 387 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:34.640 books, DVDs, and other merchandise including open Minds magazines. Is it openminds 388 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:41.119 dot Tv the defendative books for UFO related news www dot openminds dot Tv. 389 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.680 Are you or someone you know looking for the latest movies and publications containing information 390 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:56.839 about UFOs and extraterrestrials and the open mind Store is doctor books, DVDs and 391 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:02.880 other merchandise including open mind magazine, Leading bi monthly magazine that explores the UFO 392 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:07.920 phenomenon. Single issues, as well as yearly subscriptions of open Mind magazines are 393 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:14.759 available in the store for both domestic and international customers. The recently expanded DVD 394 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:19.880 offerings include dozens of documentaries and conference presentations by experts in the field of upology. 395 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.160 The ever expanding line of products, including DVD's, books, and branded 396 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:32.559 open Mind merchandise, make the open Mind Store an online destination worth visiting frequently. 397 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:38.079 Browse thestore today at store dot openmind dot tv to see the latest editions. 398 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.079 Welcome back to open lies Radio. Here now former official spokesperson for the 399 00:31:52.200 --> 00:32:00.720 Mutual UFO Network, your host of open Mized Radio, Alejandro Rojas. Thank 400 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:04.200 you, guy, whoever you are. I don't even know the name of 401 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:07.680 the guy who did that. He talks about me so nicely. I need 402 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.599 to figure out his minname. Maybe we'll just call him Bob. I can 403 00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:15.759 come back and say thank you, Bob. It's me Olejandro, and we're 404 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:21.440 back with open Minds Radio. And I should mention because one people or one 405 00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:27.359 of the chatters is talking about the chat there and there are two chats going 406 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.519 on because we are broadcast live on blog Talk. They're the ones who manage 407 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:36.000 our podcast service, so we go through them for the audio side, but 408 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:39.680 on the video side at Openminds dot tv, you can watch us live on 409 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:45.880 video and we use you stream, but we're a YouTube partner and we actually 410 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:52.039 starting last week post these to YouTube the following day as well, which is 411 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:58.440 really cool. And hopefully we will have YouTube live streaming going here soon and 412 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:04.799 we'll get that up too, So very exciting. I'm very excited because if 413 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:10.880 I am not mistaken, we have mister Mark D'Antonio on the line. Hey, 414 00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:16.119 how you do? Hey there, how you doing? Excellent? Great, 415 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:21.200 It's good to have you on the show. Always a lot of fun. 416 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.839 And you know, we did some video interviews with you and Laughlin at 417 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:30.119 the UFO Congress and we still haven't gotten those online, and so I figured, 418 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.240 well, let's just get you on the show and we can talk about 419 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.839 all that cool stuff we talked about. Oh, I think that's great. 420 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:38.599 It is. Thanks for having me. Yep. So how long have you 421 00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.240 been with moufon now? Well, it's a complicated question, but only because 422 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:51.079 I took a hiatus in between. I was actually a field investigator with mof 423 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.599 on fact, when Walt Andrews was running things out of file folders on his 424 00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:02.680 on his office desk right pre internet, you know, pre you know Windows, 425 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:07.360 basically where there was any kind of possibility for applications that would really do 426 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:12.599 anything meaningful with the data. Uh. And then I took a hiatus for 427 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:17.639 a number of years until a number of experiences that I had prompted me to 428 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:22.519 start looking at it again, which then led to getting back into the photo 429 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:28.400 and video analysis and the thing. I guess what four years now, three 430 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.440 and a half, four years now. Yeah, time flies, and you've 431 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.559 been able to look into a lot of interesting cases. Oh yeah, yeah, 432 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.920 there's been some very interesting stuff. And you know, I have to 433 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:43.159 admit I was shaking my head at the beginning of the hour when you you 434 00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:50.199 said, you know, none of the punker on the thing this is over 435 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:54.199 the phone sound well. And the only reason I say that is one, 436 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:59.119 you're a good sport, and too it's not true. And it's you know, 437 00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:04.159 something that I here very so so often, and so it's kind of 438 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.320 like something you probably I should probably cut it out because I probably annoy you 439 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.639 because I bug you about it so much, teaser about it. But you're 440 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:15.800 such a great sport about all of this stuff that it's it's it's kind of 441 00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.280 fun, you know, you know, in all honesty, that's the truth 442 00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:24.039 is. You know, we have to be hard on the data because what 443 00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:29.320 falls out at the end of the investigation we want to be able to stay 444 00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:35.519 is truly unknown. Otherwise, somebody who's better at us and doing the image 445 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:45.159 analysis or able to handle the photos in a mathematical way with algorithms that we're 446 00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:49.480 not using today or tomorrow yet might say, well, they didn't do this. 447 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:52.719 Well, guess what we do. Make sure we do that we do 448 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.079 contact with people that have the ability. When you know, it's not all 449 00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.360 me with the photo and video analysis. There's ablet to talent people out there 450 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.599 that are you know, in the loop to help do this. We this 451 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.840 isn't a one person show, as you know, it's a seam effort. 452 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:13.760 And honestly, you know, when you look at the complexity of the cases 453 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.159 these days, as you alluded to in some of your other broadcasts, you 454 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:22.000 know, people can use photoshops do amazing things. As we're speaking, I'm 455 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:27.239 just finishing up an illustration for a magazine that is due tomorrow. Well, 456 00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:32.599 I'm using a program that could also be used to generate photo realistic looking UFOs 457 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:37.159 in the sky and put them up on YouTube and start causing all kinds of 458 00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:42.679 crazy sensations. But right knowing how to pick those things now from a real 459 00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.280 photo. See, there's science behind that. It's not just an opinion. 460 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.159 There's there's scientific principles. And that's the thing that you know, we can 461 00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:53.039 look at. You know, we can detect when someone's used a clone stand 462 00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:59.039 in photoshops across the photo. You know, I can't, I couldn't looking 463 00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:04.000 into photo, but the why of them are on. But yeah, and 464 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.960 we do have to be careful exactly for the reasons that you're talking about. 465 00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:12.519 And you know, one thing is if we're looking for and I think this 466 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:17.400 is one thing people have to understand if we're looking for the truth then and 467 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:23.199 we're looking for the heart of this matter, sometimes you have to be conservative 468 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:30.639 and rule out even if something is an unknown but it's not you know, 469 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.199 it doesn't have enough data to really give you any information. There's not much 470 00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:37.000 you can do with it. And that used to frustrate me when I first 471 00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:42.159 was working cases, and I go to Bruce mcabee or Jeff Saniel, who 472 00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.519 were two people that were kind of your predecessor's, although Bruce mcabee still works 473 00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:49.400 in this stuff. And I would show them a video and they'd say, 474 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.079 oh, it could be this, it could be that, and kind of 475 00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:53.840 blow it off. And I used to get frustrated until I got more experienced 476 00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:59.199 and I thought, well, let's say they were able to determine this one 477 00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:04.320 light in this that's kind of cruising across that looks very similar to the satellite 478 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:08.480 is not a satellite. Because it did some stuff off camera that these people 479 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.440 saw, they could be telling the truth. But what can you do with 480 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:15.639 that. That's not evidence that you can go take to the scientific community and 481 00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:17.719 they're going to be wowed by it. There's not much you can do with 482 00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:23.440 that. Unfortunately, sadly that's true, and there's there's cases where I receive 483 00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:28.440 photo and video evidence and all it is it's a shaking spot in the sky 484 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:36.159 with absolutely no point of references reference, absolutely no way to tease any additional 485 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:38.880 data out of it with all the tool values, and then other people have 486 00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:44.159 that's all we have to say. You know, yes, as much as 487 00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:47.239 that looks like camera shake, the witnesses insisting that that's not camera shaped. 488 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:52.000 Yet in the data you can see that the camera was zoomed in all the 489 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:57.280 way and he says it was handheld. Right. I'm sorry that those are 490 00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:00.719 contradictory statements, you know, when when they face like that. And as 491 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.760 much as a as a bad guy that I seem to be, sometimes I 492 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.559 have to tell you I have a very thick skin. But I'm also very 493 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:14.199 open because one thing that most people don't know. Although I didn't make a 494 00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.719 a I had a discussion about this that one of my talks. I think 495 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.719 it was Denver last year, I admitted publicly for the first time that I 496 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:30.800 had an experience that might very well have been a close encounter where I had 497 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:37.280 something placed inside my assignments. You know, my my wife was involved indirectly. 498 00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:42.800 There were dogs in the room at the time, and this whole set 499 00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.880 of events transpired where the next day I woke up to uh my, my 500 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.519 billow and bed was covered with blood. Oh yeah, and and I couldn't 501 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.639 breathe out of that sinus for and don't ask me why it took this long 502 00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.039 for two years, go ahead, no, no, no, okay. 503 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:05.400 When I went to the hospital, the doctor looked up into my nose and 504 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.039 said, holy cow. He goes, you got something lined up there? 505 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:12.119 He goes, i'll ve get up there. Yeah, and he took it 506 00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.519 out. And when he took it out, I said to him, I 507 00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:16.159 made the mistake of saying to him, can he checked to see if it's 508 00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:20.400 something, you know, if it's a deserves, if there's a foreign body 509 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.639 inside that that Matthew took out. And he said why? And I could 510 00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:27.679 have just left it at that, but you know, I told him the 511 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.079 story and he kind of looked at me, kind of the way people look 512 00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:34.159 at you and you tell them stories like that. And he said, oh 513 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:35.559 no, no, we goes to this. Okay, I'll I have a 514 00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:37.360 checked out. And so I called a couple of weeks later to get the 515 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:42.679 results, and lo and behold, there were no results. In fact, 516 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:46.960 the thing he took out was gone. And wow, yeah it's on record. 517 00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:51.719 It's just you know, it's the hospital here in Connecticut, Harvard Hospital, 518 00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:55.400 you know. And then in a casual conversation only some months ago, 519 00:40:55.760 --> 00:41:00.440 when I was there for another unrelated thing, he told me that he just 520 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:06.719 had relinquished his top secret clearance for the Air Force like, Wow, you're 521 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.199 kidding. I'm not kidding, Alexandra, And I said, you're kidding. 522 00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.239 What did you do? And you know he told me this in his aunt 523 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:16.039 his office. He said, well, he goes, I was part of 524 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:21.159 the team, the only team, he says, who's ever detonated a nuclear 525 00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:30.440 weapon in outer space? Ah? I but sure there's been no absolutely no 526 00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:35.039 record ever of a nuclear shootdown in space. And he smiled and said, 527 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:40.159 yeah, I know. No reck Now, now that's total sidetrack from photo 528 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:45.840 analysis and video analysis. But I'm giving you some background into why when people 529 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:49.559 say I'm a debunker, I kind of just smile and say, well, 530 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:52.599 I appear that way, but trust me, I'm I'm a strong believer, 531 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:58.400 but I also believe in strong data reception. I believe I make sure that 532 00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:02.079 data is right. Yeah, I mean making sure the analysis is right. 533 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:09.199 So I feel bad when people will bring me gorgeous lenslers that have the appearance 534 00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:14.199 of, you know, humanoid forms or something. Right, But I have 535 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.800 to call it like I see it. Day ninety nine point nine per Auro 536 00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:22.679 ninety nine point nine percent is just not gonna be what we're looking for. 537 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.960 You've heard me say it a lot of people heard me say, we're looking 538 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:30.639 for that holy grail of yourthology, all right, which is that incontrovertible evidence, 539 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.760 and someday we will get it because I believe they are here. I 540 00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.960 do. Yeah, yeah, you know it's happened to me. I think 541 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:44.440 it happened to every researcher. There's somebody in Denver like who goes around. 542 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.079 It was a lady who gave me some photos. And you know, I'm 543 00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:52.719 certain because unfortunately, well for better or worse. You know, I had 544 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:58.119 a broadcast journalism background, so I and film minor so, and I took 545 00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:01.679 photography classes though I mean sometimes there weren't people available, and I had to 546 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:07.000 learn to do my best as possible to do some analysis. But you learn 547 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:10.760 what lenz flair looks like. And sometimes people give you a lens flare, 548 00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:14.880 and like you said, you feel bad, but you have to tell them. 549 00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:16.400 Unfortunately, you know, there's there's not much I can do with this 550 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:20.760 because it looks like a lens fair and maybe it wasn't. Maybe you saw 551 00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.880 something extraordinary, but unfortunately it wasn't recorded in this picture, and they get 552 00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:28.400 mad at you. And you know, there's a lady that goes around Denver 553 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:32.039 saying that she gave me pictures and I never gave him back, which wasn't 554 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:35.599 the case, and that you know, I debunked the whole thing and blew 555 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:38.559 her off, even though she has these amazing UFO photos. There's probably two 556 00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:42.920 or three people that have done that even with me, And as people know, 557 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:47.360 I'm like that the nicest guy in euphology. You really are, you 558 00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:51.079 know, you really are, you know, and you know, instead of 559 00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:54.000 what you said about me, I mean, you really are. Well. 560 00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:00.599 I wanted to talk more about your kids. What happened to you the night 561 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:07.039 that that happened. Do you do you remember lights or anything weird prior to 562 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.079 going to bed or while you were in ben Oh? Sure, it happened 563 00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:13.480 over three nights. As a matter of fact. Wow, on the first 564 00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:16.760 night, I woke up to this banging on the roof. Now, you 565 00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.079 know, I don't know how how much time you have. I'll try to 566 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:22.800 make it. Oh, we've got time, go for it. Okay. 567 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:28.599 I lived in at the time, I lived in a cape dormered, cape 568 00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:32.400 constile house and it was in a neighborhood exactly from where I live right now, 569 00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:36.519 hundred and eighty feet, which is kind of odd in itself, but 570 00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:45.360 on the second floor, the neighbor's house is maybe forty feet away and isolated. 571 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:46.960 There no trees over the house. I just heard this banging on the 572 00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:51.559 roof and I woke up to it, and I, you know, went 573 00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.320 back to sleep. The second night, I heard it again. It woke 574 00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:58.880 me up again. This time it was a rhythmic set of knocking, which 575 00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.599 I thought, Oh, someone's at the door, and then they sat up 576 00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:06.760 and realized it's coming from the peak of the roof. And I had at 577 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:09.320 the time two greyhound dogs rescued from the track. And how my wife was 578 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:13.840 still sleep in the bed next to me, and these two greyhound dogs were 579 00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:17.280 looking up at this knocking. They were looking where I was looking because they 580 00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:21.280 were wondering what's the noiseless too. They were drawn to that. So I 581 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.280 got out of the bed and they were sleeping under an open window and looking 582 00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:31.000 up. So I leaned over them to peek through on this beautiful August night 583 00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:35.519 and look through the screen, kind of like put my head against the screen 584 00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:40.960 and look up. And as I did that, as I'm telling the absolute 585 00:45:42.039 --> 00:45:46.440 truth, Will, I don't need to make tough up. I got hit 586 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:51.880 in the face with a bright white flash of light, and I froze, 587 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:57.719 and I just stayed right there, and I looked down and I couldn't see 588 00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.440 anything. All I could see was like a bright street light, you know, 589 00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:02.920 a couple hundred feet away. It's all I could see. And as 590 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.119 I got my vision back, I looked down and I noticed that the dogs 591 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:12.719 weren't there. They were gone. And I found the mail hiding outside in 592 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:15.679 the hallway in the bedroom, and he never slept under that window again, 593 00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:20.679 by the way. And the female was hiding in the closet in a pile 594 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:23.199 of laundry that was in the closet in the basket. She was in there 595 00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:27.760 and wouldn't come out. I had to drag her by the collar. But 596 00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:31.159 what I did was I went over to my life and for all your listeners, 597 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.880 this is art where you can really be mad at me. I showed 598 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:37.039 her and I woke her up out of a solemn sleep, and she goes, 599 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:42.119 what are you doing? And I said, look, just remember that 600 00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:45.159 I did that, okay, because I'm feeling really weird right now. And 601 00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:46.119 she said, well, what happened? I said, I'll tell you in 602 00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:49.920 the morning, I couldn't put my thoughts together. It was all jumbled. 603 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.239 Anyway, going back to bed. In the morning, I woke up, 604 00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:54.960 got ready. He was going to work. Back then, I wasn't working 605 00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:58.880 in my own business like am now. I was working as a consultant. 606 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.000 So I got up here ready to go. He grabs me, planing and 607 00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:04.880 scrup on the neck and says, are you gonna tell me why you hit 608 00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:07.039 me that night? And I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot 609 00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.840 all about that. I had totally forgotten. And I explained what happened, 610 00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:15.000 and she said to me, you know you have problems with your vision. 611 00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:17.079 Are you okay? I know I thought maybe I was having a stroke. 612 00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:20.360 I didn't know. You know, you can have them at any age. 613 00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:23.039 Well, anyway, that came and went, and then the third night is 614 00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:28.760 when the following happened. I woke up again, except this time I was 615 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.960 as awake as I am now, just like before, and I couldn't move, 616 00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.360 you know, I said, all right, I'm gonna hit the pompic 617 00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:39.440 state. My body and motor controls aren't quite connected on that little edge of 618 00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:44.280 sleek location. I said, oh, that's cool. It kind of feels 619 00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:46.400 me. And then I said, wait a minute, I can't make myself 620 00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:52.079 move. I'm like absolutely frozen. I'm wide awake, and I couldn't move, 621 00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:54.280 And so I went to look toward the window because I could see out 622 00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:57.880 of the corner of my eye perfectly. I could see the shape of the 623 00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:04.119 window in the light. And in the moment when they tried to move my 624 00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:09.280 eyes, I couldn't move my eyes. My eyes were frozen fixed forward. 625 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:15.079 And that was that was very frightening. Now I started the panic I felt. 626 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:17.440 I thought, oh my gosh, I had some kind of a Yeah, 627 00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:20.400 I did. I was stroke and it hit me tonight. I mean 628 00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:22.719 I really did. I thought that something happened. I was paralyzed, I 629 00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:29.280 had a traumatic spine injury or something. I was very conscious. That's when 630 00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:35.559 I saw that somebody was in the room. And on the other thing I 631 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.760 noticed was I was trying to listen for any sounds and there was dead silence. 632 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:45.880 I mean total silence. I know what someone who's death and has profound 633 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:49.119 hearing loss. No, I know what they feel, I know what they 634 00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:53.480 sense. I know what that absolute silence is. Right, because I couldn't 635 00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:58.159 hear myself breathing. I couldn't hear it through bone conduction. I couldn't hear 636 00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:01.559 the heartbeat. I didn't no I was breathing. I couldn't feel my body. 637 00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:07.119 I just felt totally detached from anything proporeal. It was scary, as 638 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:13.400 as you can imagine. And then this being, which I couldn't really see 639 00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:17.800 very well. I only saw in silhouette, something approached the bed and extended, 640 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.440 well, I guess was a hand, and in a hand was a 641 00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:28.719 long, thin, white, translucent, lit up kind of wand it was 642 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:32.440 white like a white thing about little off the diameter of a pencil, but 643 00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:37.239 imagine a pencil twenty inches long or something. And it was just going back 644 00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:39.159 and forth in my vision in front of my face. That's what I remember. 645 00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:45.320 And then bang, it was morning wow, and I was on my 646 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:50.519 belly and I was suddenly awake and realized I can't breathe, and I pushed 647 00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:54.239 off the pillow, and that's what I noticed. That I was face down 648 00:49:54.440 --> 00:50:00.880 in blood and I ended up looking at this pillow full of bl and I 649 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:06.239 looked at my hands and my hands were actually completely clean, absolutely clean. 650 00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:08.679 I thought maybe I did something with my nose in the middle of the night 651 00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:15.000 or whatever. My hands were completely clean where the blood came from. Yes, 652 00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:20.159 it was not of my left finess, left nostrils, and I felt 653 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:22.880 when I touched it, I felt like I'd been punched in the face as 654 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:27.400 hard. And you know, you only have my word for this. But 655 00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.119 Jody, my wife does not move in her sleep. Once she's asleep, 656 00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:36.840 she's gone. That's just that's why you had to shove her so hard. 657 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:40.320 That's right, you know, that's right. And any in any case, 658 00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:44.679 you know, I thought it was going to pass. I thought whatever it 659 00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:46.960 was would go away. She remembers the blood, I mean because I told 660 00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:51.360 her all about it, and it was kind of frightening to her. And 661 00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:54.119 then it went away, and I couldn't really breathe on that nostril. I 662 00:50:54.199 --> 00:50:58.719 could a little bit, but not much. I thought, maybe I'll give 663 00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:00.320 it a couple of weeks, because you know, maybe I injured it somehow. 664 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:06.119 I don't know. Almost didn't even remember the event, okay. And 665 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:10.440 then, like I said, a couple it took me almost two years. 666 00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:14.239 And when I finally went to the doctor, he noticed that there was a 667 00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:16.079 mass up there. And when he took out the mass, of course, 668 00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:20.760 I can breeze perfectly fine. And he said, it's just an ordinary nasal 669 00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:23.320 polyps thing that people get. And I said, but can no seed around 670 00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:27.599 fourign objects? And he means He says, you mean like a splinter, 671 00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:29.920 like a machinist or something. He goes, yeah, he goes, yeah, 672 00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:32.440 that can happen, that can irritate him and cause and sens to inflame 673 00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:35.920 like that. Yeah. I said, can you check that? And this 674 00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:38.119 is where we come in with a story. And I spoke of before and 675 00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:44.719 he did, and they did, and they sent it to pathology and that's 676 00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:49.559 it. We never saw it again and it never got a report back. 677 00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:55.519 It's incredible because your story is similar to other stories out there, and I 678 00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:59.159 didn't know any of the story, right, this is the whole thing. 679 00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:02.280 I mean the time, this is before I got back into MUFAN, I 680 00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:07.199 hadn't been paying attention to any abduction stuff. And I gotta tell you since 681 00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:15.800 that episode, which was like fourteen fifteen years ago, my youngest son had 682 00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:20.440 an experience where he had to start sleeping with us when he was like seven 683 00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:22.119 or eight. He's twelve now. He was seven or eight and he had 684 00:52:22.159 --> 00:52:25.800 to sleep with us every night, and I asked. He said, I'm 685 00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:30.079 just scared, you know, Okay. He didn't say a word, so 686 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:34.000 finally I pressed him and he started to cry, and I said, Hunter, 687 00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:38.960 what's wrong? And his response was the following quote, which is it's 688 00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:43.519 scary and I'll never forget it. He said, quote, I'm afraid the 689 00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:45.679 aliens are going to come through my window and take me again. Wow. 690 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:51.960 And you ever told him your story? No, right, which I imagine 691 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:55.000 you wouldn't have, but especially no, I'm a responsible parent, you know, 692 00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:02.840 in spite of what you know. You say, yeah, I know, 693 00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:07.679 you know what I mean. People talk, We'll talk, but then 694 00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:13.920 then, you know, finally he got over that and he's sleeping fine again. 695 00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:15.960 He's forgotten all about his time not reminding him. And by the way, 696 00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:20.400 that was well before I got back into move on. Wow, what 697 00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:24.440 do you think happened to you? You know, it could all have been 698 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:29.840 an immense dream, it could all have been a strange thing. And others 699 00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:31.360 people going, oh, yeah, right, come on, it's obvious what 700 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:35.880 I well, believe me. I also believe in the obvious as well. 701 00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:39.000 I believe that there was something in the room that night. I believe that 702 00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:45.199 something got shoved into my sinus, and I believe that when they took it 703 00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:50.880 out, whatever it was that they found probably looked odd to them, and 704 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:53.719 they probably contacted someone who could look at it further. That's why it vanished, 705 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:58.239 and it could have finally made it to a circle somewhere where people say, 706 00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:01.320 whoa, let's check this out, and you know, just you know, 707 00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:07.360 don't give any reports, tell nothing which happens. You know, there 708 00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:15.000 are people who have sent material or other things to PhDs or university. Then 709 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:16.239 they don't get it back. They're told, oh, it was nothing, 710 00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:20.000 Well can I get it back? No, we threw it away, or 711 00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:22.199 we don't know where it is, you know, because it was nothing, 712 00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:27.440 don't worry about it. Yeah, I know that's very true. Now. 713 00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:32.119 The last event, just to finish this out, was about three years ago. 714 00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:37.119 We were sleeping and we were both my wife and I both awakened the 715 00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:40.880 two in the morning by something dropping in the attic. Now, the house 716 00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:47.039 right now is actually three three floors. It's a nice house. It's up 717 00:54:47.079 --> 00:54:51.880 over a lake, and you know that third floorway up there is the attic. 718 00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:54.800 Now, the attic is sealed off from the rest of the house with 719 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:59.400 a door on the outside that is latched to the wall. From the outside, 720 00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:01.960 there's no in unless that door is off, and you can't put it 721 00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:07.840 back on once you go inside. We heard someone walking around with in that 722 00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:12.039 attic, and I thought we both thought it was one of the kids because 723 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:16.079 it was little feet and it was turning. You could hear grit under the 724 00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:20.440 ball of the foot as it was turning. When they got to the end 725 00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:25.480 of the wall and turned, and it was walking like you know, turn, 726 00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:30.400 turn, you know, and you could hear it. When we could 727 00:55:30.440 --> 00:55:36.000 follow with our eyes the sound across the ceiling from our bedroom below. We 728 00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:38.639 could follow the sound. And I said to her, I go, what 729 00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:42.239 are the kids doing up there? And she goes, I don't know, 730 00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:45.679 but that's making me. That makes me I rate. So I just jumped 731 00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:47.480 out of bed. I did. I jumped out of bed, turned on 732 00:55:47.559 --> 00:55:52.119 their lights and they were both in bed, and so that's when I said, 733 00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:55.519 they're both here, and she goes, I'm calling the police. And 734 00:55:57.039 --> 00:55:59.400 because of the nature of the work, I do you know, I do 735 00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.079 you know model making work. I do work for the Navy and stuff. 736 00:56:01.119 --> 00:56:07.000 So when I called the police, they were here in like twenty five seconds, 737 00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:10.599 and they charging up the driveway with their spotlights named at the house. 738 00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:14.960 They get out of the cars and they start walking around the house looking for 739 00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:19.960 any sign of any entry into the house. And we're both outside on our 740 00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:22.480 in our jammies. Okay, that was a sight, Alejandra. Let me 741 00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:27.000 tell you. I don't want to Yeah, trying to look like I know 742 00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:32.000 what I'm talking about when I'm standing there in my Superman Yeah, I popped 743 00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:35.800 up builder of pajamas or whatever it was. I don't know. Well, 744 00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:40.719 anyway, they found nothing, and we found nothing. And so the next 745 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.360 day I was going to go up into that attic. And when I tried 746 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.400 to go up into the attic, Hunter came up to me and said, 747 00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:50.519 oh, you're gonna go up there again. I go, what do you 748 00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:52.400 mean? Were you up there? Yeah? I went up there this morning 749 00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:55.239 because I wanted to go get some of the World War two stuff that your 750 00:56:55.320 --> 00:57:00.360 dad brought back. So I went up there and looked and Hunter had been 751 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:04.719 up there, you know, around I don't know, nine ten in the 752 00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:07.000 morning when he got up. I didn't go up there yet. This happened 753 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:12.480 earlier at two in the morning. I went up there, and any evidence 754 00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:16.039 that there might have been was gone because he was up there moving stuff around 755 00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:20.239 and pushing stuff around. He had no idea what had happened up there that 756 00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:25.679 night. So you know, and now, had I known of Chuck Mablin, 757 00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:30.559 okay, I would have had Chuck up there in a heartbeat, okay, 758 00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:35.920 looking for any kinds of physical trace evidence, you know, his equipment. 759 00:57:36.440 --> 00:57:39.079 But at the time, I didn't know. And so finally, you 760 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:43.480 know, when I got the opportunity to start looking into move on again, 761 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.960 you know, obviously the history of the history had moved into this position here 762 00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:52.639 and have been going strong. So maybe it's a bunker to some, but 763 00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.519 boy, oh boy, you know, I hope my experience has show people 764 00:57:55.559 --> 00:58:00.719 that I'm certainly no non believer. That's true, right exactly. So yeah, 765 00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:04.519 a lot going on and see, and that's what like the kind of 766 00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:07.119 stuff, because I remember, you know, I was able to hear a 767 00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:09.280 little bit about this, but not in detail like like you just shared with 768 00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:15.000 us now, So that was great, and it's incredible because it's similar to 769 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:21.199 for instance, I've been to an abductee's house the night after they were taken 770 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:28.840 and heard those pounding on the roof and yeah, and banging and stuff like 771 00:58:28.960 --> 00:58:34.119 that, so which is crazy and terrified at the residents of the house. 772 00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:38.519 So it's and I know it's it's a similar experience. Or someone in the 773 00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:43.760 chat actually that was saying that is just floored because they're saying, holy cow, 774 00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:46.159 that's the same experience. I had, very similar, and I've never 775 00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:52.519 told anybody. So yeah, Wow, that's outrageous. I didn't really ever 776 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:55.360 know that. Yeah, that's what's incredible. That's what's incredible about the whole 777 00:58:55.360 --> 00:59:02.760 abduction phenomena is that all of these people of various walks of life experiencing very 778 00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:07.800 similar things, and like you, they had never heard of other people having 779 00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:12.440 these experiences before. Wow. Well, you know, Bud, Bud Hopkins, 780 00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:15.400 it's to me, he goes. You know, if I ever want 781 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:21.199 to come down, you know, to Manhattan and you know, sit down 782 00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:23.119 with them and bring my son, he goes, you'd be happy to to 783 00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:28.079 talk to us both and see what's going on and try and get out of 784 00:59:28.119 --> 00:59:30.000 it. You know. I fund and I became friends back in San Jose 785 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:34.400 actually when I did that first talk back when you were ready to move on 786 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.719 m So that was my entry point. Back in because of the drone case, 787 00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:43.119 you know, back then, the California drone. Yeah, we're going 788 00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.119 to take just a really quick break here, so, you know, so 789 00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:50.079 we can refresh ourselves for a second, just a couple of minutes here, 790 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:52.360 and then we'll come back and we'll talk about the drone case and some other 791 00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:58.039 cases you've been working on. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with Mark D'Antonio. 792 00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:16.599 We'll be back in just a couple of short minutes. Open Minds Magazine, 793 01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:20.480 the exciting new publication by Open Minds Production, is in stores now. 794 01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:23.440 Open Minds Magazine is you're looking inside the fascinating world of UFO related phenomena, 795 01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:28.480 including extraterrestrials, abductions, cattle mutilations, cross circles, alien implants, and 796 01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:31.599 more. Open Minds Magazine provides readers with current research, investigations, and news, 797 01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:36.679 all delivered in a studiographical presentation. Take up your couture today and prepare 798 01:00:36.679 --> 01:00:39.119 to have your mind open. That's Open Minds Magazines, available now at Barnes 799 01:00:39.159 --> 01:00:46.760 and Nobles Borders and online at openminds dot tv. Having been referred to as 800 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.880 the CNN of UFOs, Openminds dot Tv is the hub for news relating to 801 01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:55.920 the alien USO phenomenon, with daily upstates of excutive photos, studios, merchandise 802 01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:01.519 and investigation. Openminds dot tv is bringing USI's an Extraterrestrial resist for global audience. 803 01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:06.079 The website features the open mind Stores, doctors, books, DVDs, 804 01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:10.000 and other merchandise including open Minds Magazine. Is It Openminds dot tv the defendantive 805 01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:16.079 sorts for UFO related news www dot openmind dot Tv. Open Minds Production is 806 01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:20.480 proud of presents the twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress, coming to its 807 01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:22.920 new home with the ratits im portmant gal Rey Ssort and Casino A, Scottsville, 808 01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:25.159 Arizona. This is the premier annual event for UFO researchers, enthusiasts, 809 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:29.760 and the general public with an interest in mysterious phenomena comeless as expert ethologists, 810 01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:34.159 government officials, and respective scientists presenting information relating to the UFOs, extraterrestrials, 811 01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:37.800 crop circles, abduction cover ups and more. The largest UFO conference in the 812 01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:40.440 country, twentieth Anniversary of the International UFO Congress takes place February twenty third through 813 01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:45.079 February twenty seven to the UFO Congress dot com for more information, including sponsorship 814 01:01:45.079 --> 01:01:53.920 and vendor opportunities. Welcome back to Open Minds Radio. Here now former official 815 01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:00.320 spokesperson for the mutual UFO Network, your host of Openmindes Radio, Laha Drill 816 01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:07.079 Rojas. All right, thank you Bob for that wonderful rejoin introduction, and 817 01:02:07.320 --> 01:02:12.320 we're talking with Marty Antonio, the photo analyst or move on and let's get 818 01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:15.920 into some of your professional life. You talked about how you work for the 819 01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:20.159 Navy, and you have a company, FX Models, in which people can 820 01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:24.199 find at fxmodels dot com some cool stuff and that's kind of how you deal 821 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:30.840 with imagery. Yeah. You know what's interesting is, you know my business 822 01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:35.800 started its life as a physical model making company, meaning that we would make 823 01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:42.400 physical reproductions of things. And the Navy angle. You know, people say, 824 01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:45.559 you know, oh Navy, look at a government plant all that stuff. 825 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:49.159 Nothing can be further from the truth, if anything. You know, 826 01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:52.400 this is the kind of work that you know, Uh, people like that 827 01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:58.239 might shy away from you know what I'm saying because yeah, they don't want 828 01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:01.239 to go to a civilian and if pending contractor and say Hey, we've got 829 01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:05.440 we you know, we covered the UFO. Can you make a model of 830 01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:10.159 it? Yeah, that's exactly right. And now the kind of work I 831 01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:13.480 do, you know, some of what we can talk about, something we 832 01:03:13.559 --> 01:03:15.840 can't, I mean, and that's because you know, most of my work, 833 01:03:15.880 --> 01:03:19.280 though, was in the submarine arena, so I spend a lot of 834 01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:24.079 time under the water surface. You know, so many of my models along 835 01:03:24.280 --> 01:03:29.559 under the water surface or in outer space. You know, that's kind of 836 01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:31.800 I don't seem to do anything on Earth. I do anything everything you know 837 01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:35.679 in the land, to do anything underwater or out in space, so outer 838 01:03:35.800 --> 01:03:39.239 space, innerspace, which I joke around and so you just change the sign 839 01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:44.400 on the pressure equation and you're all set. You go from one to the 840 01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:49.559 other. But truthfully, the Navy angle, yeah, I do a lot 841 01:03:49.599 --> 01:03:54.519 of work for them. I'm a contractor and I work for defense companies as 842 01:03:54.559 --> 01:04:00.559 well, and I work out of my home my studios here. So essentially, 843 01:04:00.559 --> 01:04:02.119 if they want to have a model made of let's say, possibly a 844 01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:06.039 prototype or something, you are the type they go to. And that would 845 01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:09.639 be the nature of why it would be secret, because they don't want people 846 01:04:09.719 --> 01:04:13.039 to know about their prototypes or whatever. Yeah, and you know, some 847 01:04:13.239 --> 01:04:16.920 of it is just company proprietary stuff and stuff. And the nice thing that 848 01:04:17.599 --> 01:04:23.000 I think is interesting is that, you know, I start I meet with 849 01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:27.920 engineers all the time who are part of you know, companies that are these 850 01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:31.400 big defense companies or whatever. I sit with the engineering teams and I'm just 851 01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:34.760 a model maker. So they don't assume I have any background, you know, 852 01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:41.519 that can be relevant to a discussion of engineering. But you know, 853 01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:46.119 the truth, the humble truth, is that my degree is astronomy, which 854 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:54.679 is almost all physics and almost all high end math. So engineering is just 855 01:04:54.760 --> 01:05:00.440 another set of equations. Not belittling it in any way because I hold itself, 856 01:05:00.519 --> 01:05:04.519 of course, but I can understand, you know, stress equations and 857 01:05:04.679 --> 01:05:09.000 and how metal reacts to fatigue. I mean, I can understand all that 858 01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:12.679 stuff. I can't spot the equations, nor can I work them, because 859 01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:15.480 I've never you don't really seen them. But I understand the concepts and I 860 01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:18.519 can hold the conversation with people about it. But and that's the nature of 861 01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:23.039 the skills that I bring to the table for them. So that makes it 862 01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:26.760 so that you know, they're comfortable with me. They know that when I 863 01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:30.559 come in, I come in with pre knowledge and that's helpful now when it 864 01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:39.960 comes to doing UFO related things. Part of that knowledge base was we do 865 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:45.440 three D illustrations as well, we do animations. We show realistic video. 866 01:05:45.880 --> 01:05:50.199 It looks like it's being shot in the camera. You know, you account 867 01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:54.360 for shadows, particles, and water. I mean, you account for the 868 01:05:54.480 --> 01:06:00.719 things that make the imagery look real. It's photorealism, but with moving pictures, 869 01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:02.599 and you see it all the time in every movie that's out and now 870 01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:11.119 in fact, audiences are saturated with this computer generated world. And that said, 871 01:06:12.519 --> 01:06:17.320 we have to be able to have a skill set as investigators with moufon 872 01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:29.119 or with open minds that is above and beyond what animators generally use in and 873 01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:32.119 of themselves. We need to have. We need to have that ability to 874 01:06:32.360 --> 01:06:39.280 say this is an animation and here's how I can prove it. You mentioned 875 01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:45.480 the California drones earlier drones, but that was a case where when I first 876 01:06:45.559 --> 01:06:50.880 saw the imagery and Steve rich muse Northern California Moufon. Steve and I knew 877 01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:55.239 each other through submarining, by the way, so you know, yeah, 878 01:06:55.719 --> 01:07:00.719 we were friends long before we ever knew anything about Moufon. And the funny 879 01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:03.079 thing is Steve said, well, Mark, I saw on your website you 880 01:07:03.159 --> 01:07:09.159 do animation and computer generated stuff. Can you just look at these images for 881 01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:12.119 me and tell me what you think, because I was suspicious that they might 882 01:07:12.199 --> 01:07:15.800 be computer generated or something like that. How it went and I looked at 883 01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:19.519 him and I said, well, Steve, not only are these computer generated, 884 01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:25.000 I can prove it and here's how. And I proceeded to I proceeded 885 01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:32.880 to show him how programs that generate these kinds of images work. And yes, 886 01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:35.960 okay, right, yeah, yeah, And I showed him. You 887 01:07:36.039 --> 01:07:41.800 know that the truth is in the shadows, because these rendering programs that make 888 01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:49.480 these photorealistic imagery, these rendering programs really really falter in some ways, not 889 01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:55.880 with making objects look real to the general public, but in making the physics 890 01:07:56.039 --> 01:08:00.400 right, the stuff that we know as hardcore folks that like to dig into 891 01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:08.199 that stuff. Making the physics look right is much harder. And I detected 892 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:14.880 this particular set of photos was all wrong. Cameras don't work the way this 893 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:20.399 particular set of imagery would show. Now, the camera knowledge comes from my 894 01:08:20.439 --> 01:08:27.600 astronomy background, where I spent years in professional observatory, taking pictures with twenty 895 01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:31.239 and thirty ton telescopes and then taking pictures. You got tens of thousands of 896 01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:35.800 pictures of my own cameras out with my telescopes, and over time I've taken 897 01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:41.880 every single bed picture you can take in astronomy, I've taken it. And 898 01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:45.079 you learn to see all the mistakes, You learn how cameras work. It 899 01:08:45.159 --> 01:08:50.640 becomes second nature. So when I saw how the drone was being shot, 900 01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:57.279 for instance, against a backdrop of a very bright sky and the sun partially 901 01:08:57.359 --> 01:09:00.039 in one of the views, well I know how, and I know that 902 01:09:00.119 --> 01:09:05.479 the drone would have been nearly a silhouette in that case. And if they 903 01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:10.920 adjusted the camera to make the bottom shaded side of the drone look brighter, 904 01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:15.760 then the sky would have been almost pure white. But the sky was blue 905 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:18.960 all the way to the edges of the frame and right there, without even 906 01:09:19.159 --> 01:09:28.119 analyzing the image itself for computer generated telltale signs of computer generated the nature, 907 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:32.039 just from that alone, we knew that that was fake, because cameras don't 908 01:09:32.079 --> 01:09:35.439 work that way. In fact, one of the little pieces of this drone 909 01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:39.560 ship was extended all the way into the glare of the sun, and it 910 01:09:39.720 --> 01:09:45.359 was still just as bright and clean on the bottom and readable as the rest 911 01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:48.800 of the drone far away on the other side. They don't work. That's 912 01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:51.800 not how cameras work. So well, that's one of the things I thought 913 01:09:51.880 --> 01:09:57.359 that the bottom of the because the backdrop was so bright, the bottom of 914 01:09:57.439 --> 01:10:01.600 the craft seemed to be too well let which later is what people like you 915 01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:06.840 kind of were staying with the shadows not being correct. Well, more than 916 01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:10.560 that, if they just took a time exposure, then the bottom could be 917 01:10:11.159 --> 01:10:14.960 you know, or too oh sure, and you assume that, well, 918 01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:17.920 maybe they took the time exposure, but the thing was moving. Yeah, 919 01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:21.840 okay, so that's that's a little bit of problem there. So assume he 920 01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:25.960 got lucky. Okay, we'll assume he got lucky. He is now have 921 01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:30.840 to look at every element of the craft. Even in the thinnest parts of 922 01:10:30.920 --> 01:10:36.960 the craft, you still had a clean, nicely illuminated area in in one 923 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:42.119 of the little spines. For those that hasn't seen these drones, they look 924 01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:49.880 like the imagine a car tire in the center with spines sticking straight out like 925 01:10:50.199 --> 01:10:55.600 like studs, like you know, winter studs sticking out of the the tire. 926 01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:58.479 Imagine lots of those spines, and that's kind of what these drones look 927 01:10:58.560 --> 01:11:00.560 like. And then there were spines going straight up into the air. The 928 01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:08.399 side ones were thicker and longer and tapered. And what's interesting is the spines 929 01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:13.520 that were on the side going out towards the sun. Those did not show 930 01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:17.239 any signs of what you would see if a camera that has a meter in 931 01:11:17.319 --> 01:11:24.479 it was functioning like it should. It was an artificially created lighting. It 932 01:11:24.680 --> 01:11:30.119 was very clear, and the coup de gras was in looking at the deep 933 01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:35.159 shadows. When you look inside the deep shadows, you saw overlapping rings like 934 01:11:35.319 --> 01:11:42.399 donuts, thick donuts overlapping each other. That's the coupdi gras. That was 935 01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:47.760 because they didn't use enough samples and what they're called digital samples in the program 936 01:11:47.840 --> 01:11:53.159 that they used to make this picture. When you generate the shadows. When 937 01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:57.359 it generates the shadows, it calculates the light rays and where they go and 938 01:11:57.439 --> 01:12:00.119 where they hit. Wherever the light rays hit you get a little donut. 939 01:12:01.159 --> 01:12:05.279 Now, if you use millions of these, then the donuts overlapped so much 940 01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:10.119 that they all look smooth and it looks perfect. All right, I think 941 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:15.000 millions. It already uses millions. I'm talking about probably tens and hundreds of 942 01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:17.000 millions. If you're willing to wait, in other words, for two to 943 01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:21.039 ten hours for the image to generate, you could probably get a very nice 944 01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:25.680 looking image. Okay, But if you only waited about an hour or an 945 01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:30.119 hour and a half and you didn't use enough of these samples, then you 946 01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:34.159 would end up with a image that had problems in the deep shadows, and 947 01:12:34.279 --> 01:12:38.239 they had problems in the deep shadows for every single one of the images. 948 01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:44.720 Well, you know, Reuben, our colleague and move on, and wanted 949 01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:48.359 me to ask you a question. Is there software now that even that in 950 01:12:48.680 --> 01:12:53.800 some of these kids the drones were pretty sophisticated, but even in these cutt 951 01:12:53.840 --> 01:12:57.880 and pace jobs, is there software now that we'll be able to take out 952 01:12:57.960 --> 01:13:00.640 some of the artifacts so you can't tell it to the cut the page job. 953 01:13:01.279 --> 01:13:04.479 Ruben, Rubin Ruben that they hear from you, even indirectly, And 954 01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:13.239 I like Ruben, he's a really you know, there are programs, and 955 01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:17.680 in fact, there are three D systems like like we use here that are 956 01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:24.479 able to remove the artifacting in a way that might make it look most real. 957 01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:32.600 For instance, the regular way that images are renders are with a renderer 958 01:13:32.680 --> 01:13:39.159 that uses something called g I okay global illumination, though those are GI midge 959 01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:43.000 renders look wonderful. But there's other types of renderers. One one type of 960 01:13:43.039 --> 01:13:47.640 renderer that we use is a physical renderer. What that is is it's a 961 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:56.479 rendering engine with the piece of software which attaches to our normal computer three D 962 01:13:56.640 --> 01:14:00.199 system and when it generates an image, it's it's going to take a very 963 01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:06.920 long time. And the reason is because it's actually computing every single ray from 964 01:14:08.079 --> 01:14:12.880 light that comes in. Wow, and that means that what you can get 965 01:14:12.960 --> 01:14:19.119 in the end might very well be truly indistinguishable from a real photo. Now 966 01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:23.520 there's a number of products like that. We have a couple of them here. 967 01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:29.520 You know, they're not cheap, but they're also not that terribly expensive. 968 01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:31.960 It's not something that only a company can buy, believe me, into 969 01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:35.960 things that individuals who do this for a living would certainly have on hand. 970 01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:43.279 And these physical renders, you know, they increase the challenge. However, 971 01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:47.520 because they take so long, it's pretty well guaranteed that it's going to take 972 01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:51.520 quite a while. They generate good imagery. For instance, you can link 973 01:14:51.520 --> 01:14:56.359 a whole bunch of computers together. I have about ten here in my office 974 01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:00.720 my shop, and you know we could link safe three or four of these 975 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:04.279 together and shorten the amount of time it takes the render because all four can 976 01:15:04.359 --> 01:15:08.000 work on creating the image, and that I'll speed up the time quite a 977 01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:12.000 bit, and in a very fairly short amount of time you get a really, 978 01:15:12.079 --> 01:15:15.520 really nice image. But you still have to go far longer in order 979 01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:21.920 to give yourself an image that looks like a true photograph under scrutiny when you 980 01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:27.720 zoom in. You know, you want to look like a digital image, 981 01:15:27.800 --> 01:15:30.560 you know, like a tip file or something. And unfortunately, some people 982 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:34.199 are motivated enough because they want that fortune and glory they think they're gonna want 983 01:15:34.199 --> 01:15:40.560 to get from taking these things that they're they're motivated enough to wait the time 984 01:15:40.680 --> 01:15:44.479 and to do what it takes. Well, I wanted to ask you, 985 01:15:45.159 --> 01:15:48.520 yeah, out of all the pictures you've analyzed, because because you know, 986 01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:51.520 I personally know a lot of them that you've looked at that you've been able 987 01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:59.199 to discover weren't actually we're hoaxes or otherwise, what are some pictures and or 988 01:15:59.359 --> 01:16:02.000 videos that you have seen that makes you scratch your head, that you think, 989 01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:08.720 wow, this is probably real or you can't figure out. I'm glad 990 01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:15.840 you asked, because I have a few that I can think of off hand, 991 01:16:15.920 --> 01:16:18.840 but one in particular that I want to mention because the others are kind 992 01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:23.399 of works in progress right now. But this is one. I saw this 993 01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:28.239 when I was in Denver, just a couple of months back. Right when 994 01:16:28.279 --> 01:16:30.279 when when we're when were we all there? I can't remember. July, 995 01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:34.600 yeah, So just a couple of months ago, made Lake, Yeah. 996 01:16:34.840 --> 01:16:38.800 And when I did the talk out there, I met with a woman who 997 01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:42.560 came all the way. She came an hour and a half out to talk 998 01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:45.439 to me. She wasn't part of the conference, he was just coming because 999 01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:47.960 she didn't know where to turn. And she knew that there was gonna be 1000 01:16:47.960 --> 01:16:53.720 some people that had some experience with photos or whatever. So I offered to 1001 01:16:54.439 --> 01:16:58.119 talk to her. And when I sat with her, she showed me a 1002 01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:02.159 picture on her phone. She said, I know, it just looks like 1003 01:17:02.319 --> 01:17:08.319 this strange top hat looking thing, and it looked like a silver top hat 1004 01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:11.479 for all the world. It wasn't a clear photo. It was at some 1005 01:17:11.680 --> 01:17:14.800 distance but it was at the beach and it was looking out over the water. 1006 01:17:15.399 --> 01:17:16.560 My first thought was, oh, okay, if balloon, maybe a 1007 01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:19.119 kite, you know, well, I can analyze, look for string, 1008 01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:25.760 see if it's a tethered object. Blah blah blah. But then she gave 1009 01:17:25.800 --> 01:17:30.840 me her testimony of what she saw and her response. She said, I 1010 01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:34.039 was at the beach and I was standing next to a group of people who 1011 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:40.159 unfortunately didn't speak any English. She goes, but what happened was this object, 1012 01:17:40.439 --> 01:17:45.560 this silver object, was mesmerizing everyone at the beach and they were all 1013 01:17:45.680 --> 01:17:48.199 looking at it, she said, And it would come toward the beach, 1014 01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:50.640 she said, and when it did, I have to tell you, it 1015 01:17:50.720 --> 01:17:55.119 was very frightening. And then it would go away from the beach, all 1016 01:17:55.199 --> 01:18:00.479 right. And then she said, it finally disappeared over the horizon. And 1017 01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:02.920 when it did that, all the people that didn't speak English next to me 1018 01:18:03.039 --> 01:18:09.319 started clapping, going wow, yeah, like it was some kind of show. 1019 01:18:11.039 --> 01:18:14.199 And you know, then they went about their business, you know, 1020 01:18:14.520 --> 01:18:18.880 talking about it. I guess, yeah, now that's that case. For 1021 01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:23.520 instance, is a perfect example of something you were talking about before, where 1022 01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:30.600 the photo doesn't do justice to the event. And you know, as move 1023 01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:35.279 Funds chief photo and video analysts, I am keenly aware of that. So 1024 01:18:36.119 --> 01:18:41.159 the first thing I do i get a picture is I look at the picture. 1025 01:18:41.239 --> 01:18:45.039 I don't read the case. I want the picture to stand on its 1026 01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:48.760 own merits. I don't want influence from the case. I never read the 1027 01:18:48.880 --> 01:18:54.960 case until I look at the picture and say, okay, well, I 1028 01:18:55.239 --> 01:18:59.319 clearly see this as Jupiter, because here's the stars, and here's exactly where 1029 01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:04.359 Jupiter is at the one hundred percent alignment with Jupiter. Therefore, I'm ninety 1030 01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:09.680 nine point nine percent sure this is just Jupiter. Uh. And then if 1031 01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:12.760 you read the case and the witness says, well it was dancing all around 1032 01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:17.479 the sky, then that's not what they saw, right, Because what I'm 1033 01:19:17.520 --> 01:19:21.760 seeing is Jupiter. They saw something else. I mean, that's the optimist 1034 01:19:21.840 --> 01:19:26.000 excite of how I look at it. Right, So what I saw was 1035 01:19:26.079 --> 01:19:30.119 Jupiter. What you photographed was not what you saw because what I'm looking at 1036 01:19:30.319 --> 01:19:32.560 was nothing that dances around the sky. It's Jupiter. Seemless is the moves 1037 01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:38.520 one People don't know. They take some pictures hoping they got something, and 1038 01:19:38.720 --> 01:19:42.920 then they look at the pictures and to an untrained eye. They they think, 1039 01:19:43.000 --> 01:19:45.399 well, that kind of looks like what we saw, or maybe that's 1040 01:19:45.439 --> 01:19:47.840 what we saw. And if they saw a light in the sky, of 1041 01:19:47.920 --> 01:19:50.199 course, a bright light in the sky is going to be, you know, 1042 01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:53.920 similar to what they saw, even if it's not the exact thing. 1043 01:19:55.159 --> 01:19:59.000 You're absolutely right. And it's hard to photograph a light in the sky. 1044 01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:01.800 It's nearly IMPOSSI spy. I was doing it this weekend and you know things, 1045 01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:05.840 yeah, fuzzy and just playing with my camera and it's very difficult to 1046 01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:11.880 do. Oh yeah. And you know, as an example, I got 1047 01:20:11.920 --> 01:20:15.000 another case which I thought was interesting and this goes back to a known but 1048 01:20:15.079 --> 01:20:18.600 I got to share this with it because it really was fun. It is, 1049 01:20:18.760 --> 01:20:25.239 for all the world, a white disc shaped craft in the distance over 1050 01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:29.359 the trees with lights on it and stuff. And I was like, wow, 1051 01:20:29.520 --> 01:20:31.119 and that is in the air. It was in the air, and 1052 01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:34.560 I'm looking at it and I'm going that's incredible. Wow, maybe this is 1053 01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:38.359 it. Let's get the details. So I started zooming in on it and 1054 01:20:39.680 --> 01:20:43.800 I saw some modeling on the face of it. So I did what's called 1055 01:20:43.800 --> 01:20:47.199 the convolution matrix. So what that is for the listeners, there's something that 1056 01:20:47.279 --> 01:20:50.960 may know this. A convolution matrix is a mathematical algorithm you apply to a 1057 01:20:53.039 --> 01:20:57.840 picture, and depending on how you set up this matrix mathematically, it can 1058 01:20:57.920 --> 01:21:01.000 do special things to the picture. It can edges on one side look sharper 1059 01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:04.319 than edges on another. It can make all the edges look sharper. It 1060 01:21:04.399 --> 01:21:10.039 can soften things. It can you know, enhance certain areas and that kind 1061 01:21:10.039 --> 01:21:13.359 of thing. And if you know how to handle the convolution matrix, then 1062 01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:15.520 you can do that. It didn't take a lot to learn. I mean, 1063 01:21:15.560 --> 01:21:16.439 you just read about it and boom, you know what you're doing. 1064 01:21:16.479 --> 01:21:19.359 You know, it takes some time to experiment, but I've had a few 1065 01:21:19.439 --> 01:21:23.520 years playing with it, so I kind of have a you know, I 1066 01:21:23.600 --> 01:21:26.199 kind of set a few up that I have set up standard in my head. 1067 01:21:27.319 --> 01:21:32.119 And as I looked at this object, I started to see something geometric 1068 01:21:32.199 --> 01:21:35.119 in the center. And I started looking at it and I went, oh, 1069 01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:40.359 I can see oh I think I see letters actually, and I started 1070 01:21:40.359 --> 01:21:43.119 to look through it. I'm like, oh, man, is that those 1071 01:21:43.880 --> 01:21:46.600 characters? Or I couldn't tell what kind of letters they were. Finally, 1072 01:21:47.279 --> 01:21:53.960 I saturated the image with color and I sat back and squinted at it, 1073 01:21:54.640 --> 01:22:00.520 and I said, Saniel, it's the Saniel blimp. Oh no, how 1074 01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:04.479 funny. Oh yeah yeah. It was like about about thirty minutes of time 1075 01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:08.600 and I was like, oh, incredible. But you know, to look 1076 01:22:08.640 --> 01:22:12.720 at it, you'd never think that was a blimp because you didn't see the 1077 01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:15.359 fins, you didn't see the gondola. You saw lights at each ens, 1078 01:22:15.760 --> 01:22:19.960 and you saw red and green lights, which always indicate to me that it's 1079 01:22:20.439 --> 01:22:30.680 possible you should investigate the aircraft avenue because that's important to do. That's bed 1080 01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:32.520 and green lights. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, just 1081 01:22:32.720 --> 01:22:38.199 not too long ago, the met Life limp was here and it was way 1082 01:22:38.239 --> 01:22:42.359 off in the distance, in between a couple of hills. I saw something 1083 01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:46.239 moving huge, moving slowly between these few hills, and I was like, 1084 01:22:46.520 --> 01:22:51.000 what the And you know, I got my binoculars in which I always carry 1085 01:22:51.039 --> 01:22:54.680 in my car now and I was able to see it. It's just a 1086 01:22:54.720 --> 01:22:59.000 blimp, but they can look very impressive. They're large, they move slow, 1087 01:22:59.119 --> 01:23:04.399 and sometimes the gondolas are difficult to see against a huge blimp balloon area. 1088 01:23:05.159 --> 01:23:10.880 That's right, that's funny, that's a that's a cool case, how 1089 01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:15.640 did you taken a look at the Phoenix Lights video, the famous video. 1090 01:23:16.880 --> 01:23:21.920 Oh yeah, I've seen there was actually two events right in the Phoenix light 1091 01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:27.119 one. One was a flare event and then one was the true one knownable. 1092 01:23:27.159 --> 01:23:29.560 Well, that's what I want to ask you about if you've seen video 1093 01:23:29.640 --> 01:23:31.920 from the ten o'clock And the reason I ask, and I've been really on 1094 01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:39.039 this kick lately, is I just moved south of the Phoenix area, about 1095 01:23:39.439 --> 01:23:44.359 twenty five miles south of South Mountain, and I drive then every day, 1096 01:23:44.520 --> 01:23:46.279 you know, down the highway in the middle of the desert, because that's 1097 01:23:46.319 --> 01:23:55.199 all reservation and it's flat, and I just can't not understand very Goldweather is 1098 01:23:55.279 --> 01:23:59.880 another thirty forty miles behind me. So yeah, I don't understand how the 1099 01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:02.800 playes could have been seen And is it possible maybe I'm wrong, they could 1100 01:24:02.840 --> 01:24:06.159 have been seen, you know, like ninety miles away or eighty miles away. 1101 01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:14.760 Oh well, I can tell you this. Airplane landing lights are visible 1102 01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:18.880 from eighty miles away and when they turn them on, they usually turn them 1103 01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:23.239 on and proxically seventy to seventy five miles out. You know, some of 1104 01:24:23.279 --> 01:24:28.760 the folks who fly and the audience can clarify that. But the commercial just 1105 01:24:29.159 --> 01:24:31.760 typically, you know, anywhere from seventy to eighty miles an hour out, 1106 01:24:31.880 --> 01:24:35.960 those landing lights could come on and you can see them very very clearly, 1107 01:24:36.199 --> 01:24:40.760 and so it is possible that you might be able to see those that distance. 1108 01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:45.199 Now, that's just from having seen aircraft at long distance and also having 1109 01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:49.840 read accounts of aircraft at long distance. Yeah, you can see the afterburners 1110 01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:54.840 of gets from a very long distance, especially if you're looking right up the 1111 01:24:54.880 --> 01:25:00.520 tailpipe, you know, and those actually very strange because I don't want to 1112 01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:05.840 do at a close distance. Yeah, I know, don't do that a 1113 01:25:05.880 --> 01:25:11.399 few feet away people, No, no way. Yeah, those of you 1114 01:25:11.439 --> 01:25:15.520 who lived near a real well, great, thanks Mark, you just debunked 1115 01:25:15.720 --> 01:25:19.279 another case for me. Oh no, no, I'm just saying that the 1116 01:25:19.359 --> 01:25:25.119 flares can't be visible. I'm not saying that's what was seen. Yeah, 1117 01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:28.800 it's just interesting because it just really floors me. You know, once I 1118 01:25:29.239 --> 01:25:32.439 put two and two together driving home one day at night, and I've seen 1119 01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:38.239 flares on those exercises in Colorado Springs and they were, you know, just 1120 01:25:38.279 --> 01:25:42.039 a couple of miles away, and it looked similar to what the Phoenix lis 1121 01:25:42.199 --> 01:25:45.039 was. But when yeah, I was thinking, wow, what the heck, 1122 01:25:45.199 --> 01:25:51.399 you know, how could they have it's so bright so far? I 1123 01:25:51.479 --> 01:25:59.079 saw a parachute flares drop at one point, and I received video of what 1124 01:25:59.399 --> 01:26:03.800 was also reported to be a similar Phoenix Lights type episode and it was actually 1125 01:26:03.840 --> 01:26:10.520 I think in England, And what I noticed when I did some video processing, 1126 01:26:11.079 --> 01:26:15.520 one of the things I noticed was that these lights were giving off at 1127 01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:21.640 a reddish glow around them. Well there's reddish glow was also traveling and the 1128 01:26:21.720 --> 01:26:30.920 reddish glow was moving upwards. It was smoke and they were flickering because when 1129 01:26:30.960 --> 01:26:33.279 you zoomed in on them, you could actually see that there was a random 1130 01:26:33.319 --> 01:26:40.319 fiaker sort of a flame source for them. So that British case, I 1131 01:26:40.479 --> 01:26:47.399 was able to show that those were you know, those were actually flares. 1132 01:26:48.560 --> 01:26:54.319 Now. The other thing was, at one point another giveaway was that the 1133 01:26:54.439 --> 01:27:00.119 first one to light up was the first one to stop a right and and 1134 01:27:00.319 --> 01:27:03.159 you saw it, you saw it, uh, you know, fade out, 1135 01:27:03.680 --> 01:27:06.159 and then it faded out. As it began to fade out, you 1136 01:27:06.199 --> 01:27:11.680 know, you could see the smoke you know, damn around it and all 1137 01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:15.560 that and then the other ones beyond it and around us did the same thing, 1138 01:27:15.439 --> 01:27:19.239 uh, but in order. So that was the British case. Now 1139 01:27:19.640 --> 01:27:26.000 with the Phoenix lights case, I know, I know that the lights were 1140 01:27:26.039 --> 01:27:30.279 fading at one point. I know the flare event acted to me like a 1141 01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:32.239 flare event, So that particularly one, but there was That wasn't the only 1142 01:27:32.399 --> 01:27:38.319 case, right the right that was at ten o'clock, so the later in 1143 01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:41.479 the day. But there were lots of sightings. And now that I've lived 1144 01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.920 here, I hear for more people all the time out here who saw that 1145 01:27:46.119 --> 01:27:50.640 thing. And h we're going to have Francis Barwood speak at the Congress about 1146 01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:55.319 she's the city council woman about all the reports she took. But there are 1147 01:27:55.399 --> 01:27:59.760 tons and tons of people out here who saw that stuff. Yeah, yeah, 1148 01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:04.199 And I know that that's the problem with the Phoenix cases because there was 1149 01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:10.239 again, if I recall, there was an actual flare drop event, and 1150 01:28:10.439 --> 01:28:15.960 it's also I think that came after the actual event. I believe. Again 1151 01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:19.000 people will correct me who are no, you're right, You're right, But 1152 01:28:19.920 --> 01:28:25.520 we are out of time. So thank you Mark for being on the show. 1153 01:28:25.560 --> 01:28:29.520 I think we got through a lot of really cool stuff and if this 1154 01:28:29.760 --> 01:28:33.359 was people's introduction to you, then certainly I would think, Wow, No, 1155 01:28:33.479 --> 01:28:36.479 this guy is mister he's an abductee. For goodness. Thanks, you 1156 01:28:36.640 --> 01:28:42.560 know they're going to run the other way. Yeah, this guy's crazy. 1157 01:28:43.319 --> 01:28:45.880 No. Thanks for being on the show. We'll have you on again. 1158 01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:49.680 Wonderful to have you in this build to be able to look at some of 1159 01:28:49.760 --> 01:28:55.399 this stuff. So keep up the incredible work, buddy. Thanks Alejandro, 1160 01:28:55.640 --> 01:28:59.279 thank you, and Open Minds, thanks so Mark. Actually you can see 1161 01:28:59.319 --> 01:29:05.399 some of hits online speak at the Congress and at MOFON, so those videos 1162 01:29:05.439 --> 01:29:10.159 are online to see. Next week, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna have 1163 01:29:10.319 --> 01:29:15.039 Leslie Keene. She wrote the book UFO's General's Pilots and Government Officials. If 1164 01:29:15.119 --> 01:29:19.920 you haven't heard about this book, turn on your television because she's all over 1165 01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:25.039 the news. She's all over the newspapers. People are talking about this book 1166 01:29:25.039 --> 01:29:29.560 because she's got a lot of very high level people that have written some papers 1167 01:29:29.560 --> 01:29:34.159 about UFO experiences, including Fi Simonston who was a governor during the Phoenix Line, 1168 01:29:34.159 --> 01:29:38.079 to the governor of Arizona. So a lot of really cool stuff. 1169 01:29:38.359 --> 01:29:45.079 Check it out on next week's show, seven pm. And we'll be just 1170 01:29:45.199 --> 01:29:47.439 back from the ex Fest in California. That's where I'm going to be speaking 1171 01:29:47.479 --> 01:29:51.119 this weekend, so that's going to be a lot of fun too. See 1172 01:29:51.439 --> 01:29:57.880 or that on Openminds dot TV, open Mindset TV, get your hat, 1173 01:29:58.000 --> 01:31:18.760 Talk to you later. Bye. The plot Hey,