WEBVTT

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Let's talk about some of God's latest
self appointed messengers on Earth and the Internet.

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Tradwives. Now, tradwives are women
who believe that God tells them to

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stay at home and treat their husbands
like children when they are not being breadwinners

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while they stay home and pop out
babies like ping pong balls. Tradwives provide

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a happy face to a growing movement
of women who believe that the most Godly

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thing to do is participate in their
own oppression. Now, don't get me

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wrong. If women are happy to
stay home and that's the lifestyle that they

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want, awesome. It's the presentation
that this is all women are good for

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that is the problem. Women like
me who get married older, who don't

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stay home, who talk to my
husband like he's an actual person, are

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assumed to be used up and unhappy
because of feminism, and they like returning

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to their take on God will free
me from these worries. What they actually

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are advocating for is freeing me from
my mind, from my ambitions, from

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my opinions, from critical thought,
and from my identity. And if that's

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the kind of freedom that the Bible
advocates more, then I think I'm good.

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But if you think I should stay
in the kitchen and make tradwife videos

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instead of upsetting people online with atheism, then call in because the show is

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starting now. All right, what
a wonderful, wonderful intro. Hello,

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folks, thank you for tuning in
theists, atheists and everybody else whoever you

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are, wherever you are out there, you could be anywhere, but you're

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here with us. Today is March
seventeenth, twenty twenty four. I am

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your host, Jimmy Junior, and
joining me today is the wonderful Sophia Spina.

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Sophia, how are you doing today? I'm doing pretty all right.

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Actually a good day to be an
atheist. Yeah, that was a wonderful,

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wonderful cold open. And your hair
looks wonderful as well. You've done

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something different. It's like we're reddish
and it actually looks better on the screen

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than it does in real life.
So you know, I'm really enjoying this

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moment. Like with tradwives, it's
really easy to look better on the screen

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than it is, you know,
to actually show your life. So yeah,

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yeah, so tradwives. Huh,
so tell me a little bit about

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that is what is this thing called
tradwives? You. You and I have

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spoke about it briefly in the past, but but now's the time we want

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to get We want to get callers
on here to let us know what it

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is they think about women and their
religion. So you had a good idea,

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I had a good idea. Oh
yeah, my tradwife only fans.

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That was my I was sort of
joking that I should, I should think

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about doing that because it would just
be so flagrant. But yeah, So

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tradwives are kind of a growing movement
online, and I think that they're one

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of those movements that's sort of soaking
up the controversy that they're creating. But

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they'll talk about how like, don't
tell the feminists, but I love cooking

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for my family, which is always
interesting because it's like, I mean,

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so do I and I'm a gobblas
Even so, it's this very narrow vision

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of what traditional gender roles are that
doesn't really date back further than the nineteen

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fifties, but neither apparently does some
of the modern Christian imagination. And so

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what I'm supposed to do as a
wife and mom who is capable of breeding

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is that I'm supposed to be home. I'm supposed to make everything as simple

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as possible for my bread whin her
husband. I think it doesn't go discussed

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as often. How men are also
treated like they're basically infants who can't do

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anything for themselves in this kind of
movement, because you're supposed to make everything

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perfect, nothing upsetting. It's this
very very strict kind of way of living.

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And yeah, men are just supposed
to be coddled unless they're at work.

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So it also includes the baby boys, the women who talk softly to

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all of their men folk because they
can't be upset. That kind of the

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fundy baby voice thing comes out a
lot with chradwives as well. You're supposed

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to be a child forever, but
a child with boobs who takes care of

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everything in the house. Weird.
Weird, It is so weird. Yeah,

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else is weird. I love cooking
for my family too, and I'm

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not a woman, so yeah,
maybe maybe I don't want you some hair.

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And then you're also right, Sophio, you had to stick the knife

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and twist it, didn't you Those
those those days are over all right,

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relatively inviting people on the show to
talk about how I should be in the

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kitchen and doing like other things.
So yeah, I'm sorry, I'm yeah,

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and not making fun of men's hair. I mean that's know your place,

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will you No, just kidding,
just kidding, Now, this is

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great. I'm so happy to be
working with you again. It's been about

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a month and you know we're back. So we have a great show that

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we're going to be doing today.
And I just want to remind everybody that

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Talk Heathen is a product of the
Atheist Community of Boston, a five to

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one C three nonprofit organization dedicated to
the promotion of atheism, critical sinking,

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excuse me, critical thinking, secular
humanism, and the separation of religion and

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government. We're a live call in
show and we have lines open, so

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get your calls in at five to
one two nine nine one nine two four

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two or from your computer at tiny
dot cc slash call thh. And while

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we do have lines open, we
also have callers, so you better get

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your calls in before our lines fill
up on you and you lose your chance.

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Before we get to that, though, I do want to take this

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time to cover our Talk Heathen to
Me segment. The question of the Week

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from last week was let's see what
did we ask what's something God stole credit

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for? And here are our top
three answers. So number three goes to

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Magansburg nine four sixty five. God
took credit for fixing a problem that he

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created. I mean, yeah,
Sophie, I don't know how much time

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you got, but we could probably
do a whole season on that, you

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know, let alone a whole show
or a question of the week. So

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this idea that God gave us sin
right or created evil and then punishes us

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for it, or gave us free
will and then punishes us for exercising it,

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make whatever avenue you want. I
mean, how do you argue your

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way around it? It just doesn't
make any sense. I don't know.

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I think that one of the biggest
arguments that I heard when I was a

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Christian, for it was that God
doesn't create some but he allowed it.

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He allowed evil to exist, which
to me is kind of like saying,

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like I didn't beat up that guy, but I just sort of let it

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happen, you know, And it's
this very fine distinction. Yeah, that

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tries to absolve God there. You
know. I have to say this too

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because this just reminded me of it, and it's like my favorite quote.

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Ever, so the great former ACA
host Tracy Harris once said, if I

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had the power, or if I
saw a child being abused and I had

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the power to stop it, I
would And that's the difference between me and

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your God. And I thought that
was so profound and that I see that

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everywhere. But that is like one
thing people really took away from from her

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her work. So yeah, I
don't know. God created certainly a lot

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of problems and likes to take credit
for fixing them. But number two,

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Blake Walker five nine five four,
what has God stolen? What has God

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stolen credit for chlamydia? It all
started with a burning bush. That that

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is excellent. That is excellent,
a little bit a little bit graphic,

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But thank you very much, Blake
Walker. Sophia, what do you think

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about that one? I love cruse
shocking humor, Like I mean, I'm

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going to just made it an only
Chadwin's only fans joke, Like I think

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it's great. I have a sense
of humor of a sixth grader at most,

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So good on you. If Moses
only knew that in like three to

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four thousand years somebody would be comparing
his God to a sexually transmitted disease because

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of a burning bush. I think
he would have he would have made up

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a completely different story. I don't
know. I mean it makes me think

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of all of the different STDs that
probably did exist throughout the Bible that we

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never heard. Yeah, So,
like what if Moses actually had chomydia?

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Like it's possible. It's possible that, Like, I mean, we just

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wouldn't know. The characters who suffer
with infertility in the Bible, did they

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get an STD somehow, Like we
wouldn't know, Like, but that's one

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of the possible consequences. So I
yeah, it's impossible. Sorry, yeah,

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it's possible. Moses clydia. Clydia, excuse me, chlamydia. Clamydia

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was so bad that it just drove
him into a stupor where he hallucinated and

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thought he saw a burning bush.
You know. Yeah. Al Capone,

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the famous gangster, died from chlymydia, like infected his brain. It was

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weird. Yeah, yeah, I
didn't know it could do that. Clymydia

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did what the government could not.
Yeah, number one. Shane Wilson seven

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nine ninety four. What did God
steal credit for my ex's orgasms? Wow,

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all right, Oh amazing. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's good.

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I just feel like I have this
insight into their relationship now that I

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don't know that I needed. But
I do also kind of enjoy like I

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guess he was doing what he was
supposed to be doing, so so good

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for him, I know. Good
job. All right, Well those are

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great answers. I really had a
fun time reading those, Thanks folks.

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The propt for next week is what
is God's idea of a perfect woman?

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Answer your best answer below in the
video comments, and next week we will

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reveal the top three answers. But
let me get your answer, Sophia,

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what do you think God's idea of
a perfect woman is? Well, the

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God of the Bible would like a
blow up doll. But if I were

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to pick it would just be me. Oh, Sally, I mean why

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not? Like I feel like after
you leave the church as a lady,

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you need to work on your confidence
and so just be like, yeah,

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God's perfect woman is me? Why
not? Well that's that's good because you

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know you are a married woman and
if you're any if you are anything like

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a trad wife, you'll treat your
husband like a god and submit to him.

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So yeah, you would be.
You would be his ideal woman,

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wouldn't you. I mean yeah,
well except for the fact that this coffee

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was made and brought to me by
my husband. I oh, you know,

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messed out on that. So see, he's not the old man out

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there that likes to cook and provide
for his wife and family. I love

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that. You know, you know, we we belong in the kitchen too.

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All right. Well yeah, that's
a that's a really good answer.

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So, uh, like I said, folks, let's get your answers in.

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We will read them next week.
The top three answers. What is

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God's idea of a perfect woman?
A perfect woman? Excuse me? So

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we have some callers on the line
super excited about that. I want to

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before we get started say thank you
to our crew. Can we go to

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the crew camp please and just show
all these hard working people. Yes,

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all right, so here they are
supporting us. You know, they were

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on way before the show even started. You know, oh hey, so

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we were, we were on They
were on like hours before we even got

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here. And you know, they're
making this thing work, making it go,

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and uh they're going to continue doing
a great job throughout the show.

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We've got an after show that's going
to be run by even more contributors to

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the ACA, making sure that you
know our mission is upheld and we get

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to interact with our viewers and fans, if you will. But looking forward

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to that, So thank you,
crew. I want to jump into a

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call, and I would like to
take a call from Michael Hee him from

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Tennessee. Michael says that progressive excuse
me, progressive Christians versus right wing Christians.

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So he doesn't say that, let
me rephrase. He wants to talk

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about progressive Christians versus right wing Christians. And so I am excited to hear

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that. Take Michael, you are
on with Jimmy and Sophia. What can

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we do for you today? Michael? All right? So Michael, I

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can't hear you right now. Sophia, can you hear anything? No ue,

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Unfortunately cool. I'm going to return
Michael to the queue and maybe you

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know, you can work on whatever
that is that's going on. Instead.

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I have somebody else that I want
to talk to. So we have an

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atheist named Sinaj, and Sinaj is
from New York. Hear him trying to

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navigate to my Jehovah witness trying to
navigate to my Jehovah witness relative. Not

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sure what he means by that,
but uh, Sinaj, you are on

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with Jimmy and Sophia. How can
we help you today? All right?

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So I'm not getting anything from Sonaj
either, So I'm not either. I'm

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starting to wonder if the problem.
I'm starting to wonder myself. So I

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am going to return snag and ask
Sinage to hold on because we're going to

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get back to you as soon as
we get a chance to. But right

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now, Sophia, you know,
I just wanted to kind of talk about

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this topic that we you know,
we're discussing. You know, I asked

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you, hey, what do you
want to talk about? I thought it

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was a good idea what you had. Let's let's keep it with women and

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religion. Right, We're still we're
still in uh you know, we're celebrating

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women's rights right and exactly exactly,
and it's important to kind of get this

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get this message out. I think
my personal opinion is that, uh,

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you know, women, you do
not have to abide by what these books,

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what these ancient dogmas tell you.
And it's just so frustrating to me

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that there are some people out there
that have been I think indoctrinated, you

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know, to the point that they
feel like they're being wrong by being a

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little bit selfish. And I don't
think there's anything wrong with that. I

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don't know, what do you think? Yeah, it's interesting. I spend

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very too much time on the internet. I'm not like fully terminally online,

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but a little bit. And there
was a woman who posted a video the

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other day just she's a mom.
She's just cooking content kind of stuff,

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and she was saying that her children
eating leftovers, her husband can deal,

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but she's making something she really wants
for dinner tonight, even though none of

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them like it. And it was
Enchilada's. And the thing that my mostly

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thought was who doesn't like Enchilada's?
Yeah, right, anyway, And so

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many of the comments weren't necessarily by
religious or irreligious people, like I don't

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know what their affiliation was, but
they were talking about how selfish she is

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and how well she should have just
made that for her lunches and give everybody

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else what they want, like wait, wait for your divorce, because you

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know you're letting your husband starve apparently, And this was all over her once

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in a while making a dish she
really liked, because she thought it was

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important for moms to remember that you
actually get to pick things you like too,

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and that that can be okay.
And so even if it's disconnected from

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religion explicitly, we still have this
sort of cultural morass in which we put

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women in this situation where if they
do anything that isn't exactly what this tradwife

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essentially would be doing, then they're
being selfish, then they're being unkind,

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and we don't hold others to this
same standard, Like, you know,

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the idea of husband's being asked,
when's the last time your wife cooked something

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that she really likes or you cooked
for her, that's not nearly as common.

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I'm fortunate in that I do have
a husband who loves to cook,

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and you know, I get to
be the beneficiary of that. But even

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these ideas pervade so much of our
lives that even in something as innocuous as

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Enchilado as they come up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're very

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much ingrained in like a view of
patriarchy, and I'm not sure why that

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still exists. You know, we
have done so much work I think as

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a society as a species really to
kind of identify that things don't need to

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be so divided. You know,
a much more egalitarian approach is actually much

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better for the greater good of society. So when I was studying my master's

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degree, I did a research paper
on gender roles and how religion relates to

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a nation's economy. Okay, and
what I found, thank you, Yeah,

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what I found was that the more
of a female population that is employed

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in a given country, the better
economic standing that country has. So,

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and those countries that had high female
employment were the least religious ones, right,

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so, or the least orthodox,
I should say. So when you

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have a country like Italy or Spain, you know, these are very orthodox

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religious countries, but they have very
little compare to the United States female employment,

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and thus their economy is kind of
lower on the ladder where the United

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States, Uh, we have a
large portion of our female workforce employed.

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Uh. And we're a little bit
less orthodox, even though we're technically a

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very religious country. We are.
We are very independent minded, right like

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we are. We care about the
individual and not about the group, if

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you will. And so everybody's out
there trying to do what's best for them

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and being a little selfish. And
you know, over the past few decades

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we've seen that increase as well to
women joining more of the workforce uh and

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that has helped our economy along quite
a bit. So I don't know that

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was that was something that I found
interesting. You know, we we we

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do a study of the most religious
countries, and the ones where where women

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are not employed are weakest economically.
You know, Saudi Arabia uh IS is

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pretty low economically, although they get
they get a little bit of a boost

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from from their oil industry, and
so there are some caveats to that.

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But most of the religious super Islamic
religious countries have very poor economies and almost

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you know, like twenty thirty percent
range of women working, you know,

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as opposed to like sixty to seventy
for the United States and other Western countries.

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So I just thought that was interesting. I wonder if things like the

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tradwife movement also, as you mentioned
that this, you know, recently we've

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had more of an uptick in women
going to work after I know, the

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pandemic really hit women harder employment wise
than it did men because they ended up

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staying home. But I wonder if
the tradwif thing is sort of a reaction

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to that, this idea that more
women are working and so as in this

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paradigm, if you're speaking from like
a tradwife perspective, you would see that

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as part of the destruction of the
family and that women aren't in the home

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and that that's going to disadvantage children, and you know, it kind of

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goes around like that. So it's
interesting to see these sort of anti feminist

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movements arise when you end up with
women progressing further into politics or into the

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job market, you know. Yeah, so I think that's a valid claim

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or a valid point rather. You
know, I think even in our own

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country, we've kind of seen a
turn toward conservatism recently, you know,

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and there is this idea that maybe
the country is going in a direction that

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the other half of the country doesn't
want to go in, and it's kind

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of caused them to be more boisterous
and speak out louder and grasp on to

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these beliefs even harder. And that
I think has been pretty typical over the

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last I don't know, eight to
ten years in our own country. But

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yeah, go ahead, go ahead. I think with social movements It's very

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much like the laws of motion.
For every action, there's an equal and

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opposite reaction, and so when we
talk about things like moving forward in a

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more progressive direction, there's always going
to be a backlash. I think it's

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hard to watch sometimes because the more
we pull one direction, the more divisive

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backlash can be. And when we
talk about the issues we have, like

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within families, about political or religious
divides now being really dramatic, those can

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be extremely difficult. But I think
there's maybe some hope in realizing that we've

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been through this a lot before.
Whenever there's a movement, there's a pullback,

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and still as a country and as
people, we survive. Yeah,

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well, that's an excellent segue.
I'm glad we had this little chat because

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we are going to get back to
our callers and take Michael, who is

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a theist from Tennessee who wants to
talk about progressive versus right wing Christians.

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And so, without further ado,
we are putting Michael on. Michael,

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you are on with Jimmy and Sophia. How can we help you today?

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Yeah, Michael, I'm sorry,
man, we are not getting you.

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We are still not getting you.
So you know what I am going to

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return you back to the queue.
We have to figure this thing out.

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But in the meantime, we've got
some screenshots and some other content that we

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want to get to. And so
what I want to do is ask the

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crew to prepare to load some of
our content that we have, and I

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want to start with if we can, crew, can we play the voicemail?

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Can we play the most recent voicemail
from this week? You don't have

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the Holy Spirit of Jesus enough to
protect you. You've got it in your

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belly, but that can be removed
and will be removed if and take the

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Omni when Jesus says, I do
not know you wif you're removed from and

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in that way, Jesus shall kill
you when he removes that pearl of great

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Well, that's the only part of
you that Satan couldn't. The rest of

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your minds are, even to now
this day, so corrupted more subtly by

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that same voice that said in your
thought, I would turn it and toss

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you violently like a ball, and
don't tell the vision. So no,

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you do not have the free thoughts. A matter of fact, you know

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that Jesus. That's why you blocked
me speaking on your show, on your

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rail to the Omni. You might
want to get you some matching white blue

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beats when the Leviathan China comes knocking
on your door. That way you can

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pretend you're a Buddhist. WEA sorry, the China part came out of nowhere.

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I was always taught you never get
to the conclusion and introduce new information.

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Uh so, I mean he was
talking about how horrible we were,

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but then we have then we have
to answer to China. I don't know

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how that how that matters. But
the Holy Spirit, so we don't have

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it, but we may have it
in our belly, we may have it

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in Yeah, the most the best
I can make out what he's saying is

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that, like the Holy Spirit is
life force and how you die is the

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final removal of the Holy Spirit because
Jesus didn't know you somehow, So like

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that's the animating force of life,
I guess is his theory. There's zero

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substantiation for anything like that in the
Bible. I feel like, unless I'm

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wildly missing it, I cannot come
up with anything. So it really sounds

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like he sort of invented this this
thing to tell us about our our holy

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spirit bellies. Yeah, I don't
know what he's talking about, as far

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as we should get us are so
matching blue and whites. Man a lot

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going on there. It's really it's
really unfortunate, you know, because this

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would have been a perfect opportunity for
him to call in and explain exactly,

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you know, like what it is
he believes why we should care and what

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he's talked about, because I can't
really decipher a whole lot from that voicemail,

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you know, And if he could
just call and I would have the

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have it right out of the horse's
mouth and we'd be able to get down

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to the bottom of things. But
instead, you know, he kind of

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sounds foolish. And I mean,
Christians, is this the best you can

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do? Is that who You're gonna
let us speak for you? You're gonna

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let that person kind of step up
and defend your faith by talking about Jesus

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in our belly and dealing with China. I don't know. Yeah, I

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feel like this is an instance in
which somebody spends a lot of time in

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their own head and with people who
agree with them, and so then they

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go to say it out loud and
no one who is an already part of

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that can really follow it. Yeah, so well test run these ideas.

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Yeah yeah, really get somebody to
kind of to your ideas off of.

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But without further ado. I hear
third time is the charm in some situations,

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And Michael from Tennessee, we're pulling
you back up. I'm hitting the

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talk button and I literally am looking
at you in my conversation. So Michael,

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tell me that you could hear us. Yes, yes, hey,

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thanks for having me. Michael.
You know what happens night? All right?

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Maybe God Israel and he was trying
to, you know, interrupt our

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show, but I don't know,
it seems like we got we got through,

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we got through it. I'm just
kidding, Michael. What's up?

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Man? Thanks, thanks for thanks
for your patience. How can we help

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you? Yeah? Yeah, so
I've listened. I actually stumbled onto y'all's

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podcasts recently, and I've listened to
some other discussions like this. Something that's

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always kind of struck me and frustratingly
is that when Christians seemed to come on

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these shows or any shows, they're
usually what we might call the right wing

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Christians, and they're the ones who
are trying to argue that there is proof

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for God in some sort of way, and of course you guys are often

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arguing there is not proof for God. But there's this whole other section of

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Christianity, of this belief that might
be called the progressive or the progressive left,

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or any number of things like that, that don't interpret to the Gospel

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the same way, and it come
at it at a very different way.

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And I don't feel like that voice
is really ever being heard. So of

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course people think Christians are frankly a
little nutty because they're you know, they

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come from that right wing side that
might more accurately be described as a little

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bit more legalistic in their interpretation,
if that makes sense. Yeah, I'd

359
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like to offer that there is a
whole other way of looking at it.

360
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Okay, well, I want to
and and Michael, I really appreciate you

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calling in, and I'm not trying
to I don't want to suppress what you're

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saying, but I'm gonna stave away
from uh or stave off from calling right

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wing people nutty. I don't want
to characterize everybody that way. I think

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people people that have conservative views,
you know, might have valid reasons for

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some of their views and maybe they're
not nutty, but I can tell you

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that I've taken some nutty calls and
so there there I can agree with you.

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But yeah, I agree. I
mean there is a there is an

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untapped kind of opinion I think,
or point of view from people who consider

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themselves more left, more liberal,
that don't often speak out about their Christianity.

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And I think that conservatives are often
given the title of well Christian or

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pigeonholed to Christians or pigeonholed to being
conservative. But there is a large population

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of liberals and progressives that are very
much Christian. You know, I'm in

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New York City and I am in
a very liberal city where there are there

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is Christianity everywhere, So it shouldn't
be assigned to kind of one group,

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if you will, or another.
But it is very much all across the

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board, touches all kinds of people. But yeah, they're a different perspective.

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So what what is the perspective that
you wanted to put forth? What

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do you have to say that's different
from some of these quote unquote nutty callers

379
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you might hear us take? Yeah, and yeah, like you said,

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I apologize to that certainly. I
have actually have a respect for most of

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my more some of the right wing
side people. It's just the ones that

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are, like you said, you
take some callers that are They say some

383
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things that you go hang on that
doesn't make any sense, and it's because

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they're trying to argue logically something that
should be. They're trying to argue it

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like a scientist would, and you
can't do that with faith. It really

386
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for me, I was agnostic until
I was twenty one. It happened in

387
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college for me where I went to
I just kind of got an itching to

388
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understand a little bit more. My
campus minister was very much into astronomy and

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we talked about science a lot.
And what I discovered in that environment was

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a group of people who were very
much dedicated to one another, loved each

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other, supported each other great deal
of compassion. Did not matter who you

392
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were, what walk of life,
or how strange or different, or you

393
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know, how much you thought that
you were on the outskirts of of of

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our society, of our culture.
You were welcome in our in our place,

395
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and that kind of devotion and love
and support. I saw how that

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listed us up and made us better
people. And I don't think anybody would

397
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deny that that's possible. We just
we attribute that to the presence of God,

398
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Okay, And it's you know,
it's not necessarily because of evidence.

399
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.240
It's because of a of a feeling
that we got. Well, I understand

400
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that, And I don't that sort
of thing. Yeah, I don't go

401
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:32.599
ahead, I want to I want
to ask you something. Okay, So,

402
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.720
in with respect to the topic of
today's show, Sophia and I,

403
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you know, we wanted to talk
about women in religion, and I want

404
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.680
to know what you have to say
about women should keep silent in churches.

405
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They are not permitted to speak,
but should be in submission. So that's

406
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that's First Corinthians fourteen thirty four through
thirty five. And so I get it.

407
00:27:55.319 --> 00:28:00.720
You know, a loving and expect
and accepting sect or or point of

408
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.160
view when it comes to Christianity is
what you represent. But how do you

409
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:11.200
reconcile this newfound view with commands from
essentially your God and your deity or the

410
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.519
people interpreting his commands saying that women
are unequal to men. The way that

411
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:22.359
we reconcile that is by recognizing that
fallible people were trying their best to interpret

412
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.200
God's message within the context of their
times and the context of their times.

413
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.880
Frankly, we're pretty sexist, and
there are certain things where you read and

414
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.119
go, yeah, when Paul wrote
that, I mean, Paul has a

415
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:40.519
reputation among progressive Christians being fairly misogynistic
in a number of times. And there's

416
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:41.920
a lot of problems with some of
the things that he wrote. But what

417
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:47.039
was he really trying to get after
with the whole of that book is really

418
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.480
what we focus more on. I
can't speak specifically to that, and that's

419
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:53.440
a whole other thing, but that's
how we reconcile some of those things when

420
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:56.519
you read it and go, that's
just crazy what he's writing. I mean,

421
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.599
there's tons of things like that.
There's that women should stay silent.

422
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:07.039
There's the whole Our whole concept is
that we want to empower people to be

423
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:10.480
their very best at whatever they at, whoever they were, at, the

424
00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:15.720
person that God created and be if
we're willing to allow our women to I

425
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.039
shouldn't say it that way. That
sounds terrible. Apologies. I think you

426
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.960
understand. I think we understand what
you're trying to say, and I want

427
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:26.400
to bring Sophia into comments so far
on what you've had to say. Yeah,

428
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.480
so I have like a few different
thoughts. I'm sure you'd like them,

429
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.119
probably not as much when I think
of I really, first of all,

430
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.400
I appreciate actually looking at the Bible
within context. That's cool, because

431
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.480
you're right, those were very misogynistic
times oftentimes in which these were said.

432
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:48.799
And I used to be evangelical.
I led Bible studies and then it sort

433
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.920
of became a more liberal or progressive
Christian for a while. But I took

434
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.160
a lot of theology classes. I
did a lot of like I love contextual

435
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.039
criticism, Biblical exeges is that sort
of thing. And the more I got

436
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:04.079
into the root of things like what
Paul would say or what the Bible was

437
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:07.799
in fact saying, the more it
did feel like, oh, it actually

438
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:11.599
is really trying to say what it
means here, It is really trying to

439
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.559
It doesn't shy away from the sexism
within it, even if we can look

440
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:19.440
back and say that was contextual.
And so for me it became about I

441
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.119
guess if we want to just sort
of take the vibe of the good parts

442
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:29.920
of Christianity, then we can say
that it can be more all around supportive

443
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.400
of women, But we have to
leave the Bible pretty far behind to do

444
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.279
that. And I eventually was like, well, if I'm doing that,

445
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.200
what's the point If I'm already kind
of not really believing the Bible and taking

446
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.880
it at face value? Or the
more I get into these stories and get

447
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.240
to what they are really saying,
it still seems pretty sexist. It still

448
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.720
seems pretty rough. Am I just
leaving the Bible behind and taking God or

449
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.400
taking the parts that I like?
How do you respond to that kind of

450
00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:00.519
feeling of when you're sort of able
to pick and choose the parts make you

451
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.880
feel like it fits into the faith
that you have. Well, that's a

452
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.839
completely fair question, and we have. Everybody that I went to seminary with

453
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:12.000
we struggled with that very thing.
And to be clear, lots of women

454
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:15.559
in my seminary. My two best
friends were pastors. That's why I moved

455
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:18.400
to Knoxville with them. They came
up here and I came up here with

456
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:23.240
them so they could be pastors.
What I would probably say is that I

457
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.240
feel like when you are doing that, you're also reducing the Gospel and the

458
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:34.240
majesty of the gospel, the beauty
of the gospel to these few things that

459
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:41.119
are sexist, and you're focusing on
that as opposed to what even Paul what

460
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.279
he was trying to accomplish, ultimately
doing it in a fallible way, but

461
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:48.319
ultimately what he was trying to accomplish, which was to list up these churches

462
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.200
and encourage them to be a community
that's loved and supported each other. I

463
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.720
don't agree with a couple of the
ways that he said to do it,

464
00:31:55.799 --> 00:32:00.440
but for the most part I do. So there's a context that I believe

465
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.160
very much in. Yeah, I
think once I stopped reading with the pre

466
00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:07.079
assumption that you kind of had,
because I did come with it thinking,

467
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:09.440
okay, but in general, this
is good, right, and I believe

468
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:13.359
in a good God. So the
vallible human thing maybe they didn't set up

469
00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:15.880
a little bit, but on the
whole, when I left that assumption behind,

470
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:21.160
it didn't look nearly like the beautiful
message I had believed that it was

471
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:24.400
when I started reading it, for
just more like an at surface value thing.

472
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:30.960
So it's interesting because I saw,
I do want to offer one other

473
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:35.359
small thing that just occurred to me
alone, as lie to kind of illustrate

474
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:37.839
the issue that we had with Paul. You have the Pauline literature, and

475
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:42.880
then you have the Gospels, thefore
Gospels. And I actually read a thing

476
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.160
once that I thought was really beautifully
worded. It said that we needed to

477
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:50.799
start progressive Christians, all Christians needed
to start viewing Paul through the lens of

478
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:55.640
the Gospels and not view the Gospels
through the lens of Paul. And basically

479
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:00.319
that's saying that Paul was flawed and
we need to stop kind of focusing on

480
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:06.640
his interpretation of everything, but rather
see his interpretation through the love and grace

481
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.079
of Christ rather than the other way
around. Well, you're giving you're doing

482
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:14.440
that's very profound. Yeah, well
I think I think you're Otherwise, you're

483
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:19.680
giving a pretty horrible person a pass, right. I mean you you said

484
00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.000
that Paul has a lot of things
that he talks about that you disagree with.

485
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.119
He was misogynistic, he was horrible
to people, horrible to women,

486
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.720
and you know, he did a
lot of horrible things. But because he

487
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:34.680
agrees with the things that you agree
with, And forgive me, I'm not

488
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.480
trying to sound like I'm attacking you, but let me paraphrat let me let

489
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.720
me generalize here. You know,
it just it seems to me like,

490
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.039
well, you know what, I
don't like most of the things or some

491
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.079
of the things that Paul did.
He really doesn't deserve to get a pass

492
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:51.480
for these atrocities, right, But
he's saying something I like, So I'm

493
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:55.079
just gonna forget about those other things
and consider him credible in this one area.

494
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:59.400
But you got to take the whole
person at face value here. You

495
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:05.160
know, why should we believe Paul
or or give any kind of credence to

496
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.320
Paul? And in the same respect, I would ask you why should we

497
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:13.719
give credence to the Bible when it
lists all of the atrocities that it has,

498
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:19.000
right, whether it comes down to
Abraham forcing his servant to have his

499
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.840
child or a lot, you know, offering his two daughters to a mob

500
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:25.719
of people for them to do whatever
they want. You know, we're talking

501
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.880
about women here, but it doesn't
just stop stop with women. I mean

502
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.079
there are there are all kinds of
atrocities, you know, committing genocide,

503
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.719
keeping the young virgins for yourselves,
but murder all the women who have known

504
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:43.639
a man right or God, destroying
the entire planet, killing hundreds of millions

505
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.079
of people, or yeah, hundreds
of millions of people. You know,

506
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:50.880
why do I have to accept some
of the Bible when it's based on this

507
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:57.440
really this really outdated but also far
reaching if we in terms of history,

508
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:02.599
something that goes back. I just
atrocity after atrocity, after hate after genocide,

509
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.960
uh, one by one by one? Is this message that you're talking

510
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.000
about, this good message is resting
on a foundation of hatred, you know,

511
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:14.119
That's the way that I see it. And now, why should I

512
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.719
give Paul a pass? Or why
should I give the rest of the Bible

513
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.840
a pass just because it's got a
few good things in it? That's that's

514
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.440
clearly okay. Question ask Here's what
I'm going to say. I've got I

515
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:28.400
can remember the three of them now. Of everything that you said, how

516
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.920
I wanted to respond. First of
all, I don't think that when after

517
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.639
Paul became a Christian, I don't
really I don't consider him as doing these

518
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:40.079
atrocious things. I think that it
was a terrible view how much he wanted

519
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:45.000
to demean women, and the fact
that he seemed to support slavery because he

520
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:51.360
didn't denounce it in another one of
his book. His books there, but

521
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.440
he is a product of his time
and the views of those times, which

522
00:35:54.519 --> 00:36:00.639
were atrocious. So what I look
at is not those specific things where I

523
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:04.920
sit there and go, you are
flawed because of this. I'd rather I

524
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.079
look at what is the ultimate point
that he's trying to get with all of

525
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.320
this, and he's just doing it
in a bad way. So you can

526
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:14.800
I think that you're justified in in
that question. But I'm I'm going to

527
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:17.480
say that he was a product of
his times, and I have to read

528
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:22.360
the Bible in a certain way.
Here's the thing. Here's that which leads

529
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.920
me to my second point. I
feel when you talk like that and again

530
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.480
in the same way, all due
respect, I'm not trying to attack you.

531
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:30.920
I'm just trying to illustrate this.
Hopefully I'm hitting on something. I

532
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:36.840
feel like you're doing the very same
thing that you get frustrated when other Christians

533
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:39.639
calling and do, which is that
you're taking everything very literally. You're saying,

534
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:43.320
well, hold on all right,
therefore they let me you know what

535
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:47.280
I mean I want to address I
want to address point one first. Okay,

536
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:53.159
So God, if God is the
moral superiority in our universe, right

537
00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.000
that he owes us better than just
saying, well, you know what,

538
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.119
this is how things happened, but
between fifteen hundred and two thousand BCE,

539
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:06.719
so we're just gonna let it slide. Slavery was always wrong, right,

540
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:10.159
Slavery is wrong now, and theoretically
it should have been always wrong, especially

541
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:14.400
in the eyes of God. But
God did nothing to stop that. The

542
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:19.920
rape of a or sexual assault I
should say hate that R word forgive me,

543
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.719
they're probably gonna bleep that out.
But the sexual assault of women or

544
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:28.199
young girls, that's always wrong,
right, at least it should have been

545
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:30.679
in the eyes of God. But
he let that slide. There are so

546
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.400
many things where you can point to, well that was just the way that

547
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:39.519
they did things back then. Well
that's fine if but that doesn't offer it

548
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:44.519
any kind of majesty that you're talking
about, that doesn't give it any kind

549
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.159
of credibility. You know, if
this is the all powerful, all kind

550
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:52.000
God, all loving God, that
he owes us better than genocide, he

551
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:55.760
owes us better than you know,
some of the things that I just talked

552
00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:59.679
about. And by the way,
you know, you you had to when

553
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:02.800
you talk about Paul, you talk
about Paul when he turned to Christianity,

554
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.159
But what about before that? I
mean, Paul was awful before that,

555
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:09.599
you know, And I get it
that that message goes to show you,

556
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:15.360
well, even God does good works
through through people who are considered lost,

557
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:19.400
and you know, you're never kind
of uh, you're never kind of out

558
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.400
of the way of God, and
there's always a chance this and that and

559
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.400
Christianity should be the way for you. I mean that kind of a particular

560
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:30.639
statement there. But but what I
want to say is that it. Yeah,

561
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:34.079
one second, you can't just say
that's the way things were done back

562
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:38.079
then. God should have known better. God we deserve better if this is

563
00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:45.920
our moral our moral compass. But
go ahead. So the way in which

564
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:49.920
you are setting up the nature of
God, I'm not gonna be able to

565
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.280
get a whole lot into this.
I don't understand it well enough to explain

566
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.280
it all. I know, you
know the basics of what I feel.

567
00:38:55.280 --> 00:39:00.159
But is the same way that again, that the right when Christians who call

568
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:05.159
in would set up that nature of
God. We we don't really view it

569
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:09.599
that way. And the fact that
Paul was a horrible person before you I

570
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:13.559
don't remember exactly how you said it, but you know something to the effect

571
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.599
that we can't ignore that. The
whole premise from what I get when I

572
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:21.280
read the Gospel is that we're all
pretty bad people Periodicy, Oh we're not.

573
00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:23.559
I'm not a bad person, right, But well, here's what I'm

574
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:28.480
getting at is that is that we
I interpret that a little bit differently than

575
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:31.000
you may have. Generally speaking.
Not always there's there's a time for certain

576
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:36.360
selfish behavior, but most of what
we would call sin is usually when you're

577
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:40.360
trying to serve yourself as opposed to
serving others and helping others and lifting others

578
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:45.239
up. And that is really what
it comes down to, is that is

579
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:49.920
that once we I'm not gonna say
or saved because that I believe that happens

580
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.639
two thousand years ago. It's not
something we do. But once we kind

581
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:58.039
of acknowledge that, we try to
move towards this idea of being less selfish

582
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:01.719
and more interested in so one another
serving to management. Oh I have it,

583
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:05.519
fella, man, Jimmy, you
want to go and then go?

584
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:07.679
No, go ahead, and Sophia, please, I am getting some hard

585
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:13.280
I guess in therapy to speak counter
transferance here with you, because I have

586
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:19.159
made these exact arguments, and when
I was looking at it, I realized

587
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:23.960
how much I was straining to reinterpret
the Bible to fit what I thought were

588
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.119
the good parts of it. And
when I finally gave myself permission to not

589
00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:32.559
have to justify my belief all the
time and actually look at the Bible for

590
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.840
what it was fully, I first
of all, is a tremendous relief intellectually

591
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:39.880
to not have to do kind of
mental gymnastics to make all the Bible work

592
00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:46.000
out in a way that is actually
positive seeming. But I also I realized

593
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:50.840
for myself, if I was picking
and choosing the Bible this much, why

594
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:53.360
pick the Bible at all? And
I think so. I hear a lot

595
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:57.079
of things that I have said,
even when it comes to the character of

596
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.480
God and things like that, like, well, I'm not sure about that,

597
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:02.679
but here's this positive thing I take
from it. And I absolutely believe

598
00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:07.440
that you can take positive things from
the Bible. But for me, it

599
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:12.280
lost the feeling of majesty as soon
as I felt I didn't have to defend

600
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.119
the feeling of majesty anymore. On
that, I have two recommendations for you,

601
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:20.079
if you're open to that. I
don't know sure, maybe okay.

602
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.960
One is a song actually called Sympathy
for Paul by Derek Webb, who is

603
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:30.000
a I think left meaning Christian,
and it's sort of about like what would

604
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.440
Paul think of his role in the
church today? And I would be really

605
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:35.800
curious to know what you think of
that song, because I thought it was

606
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:38.159
actually really interesting and pleasant to listen
to. It's just a good song.

607
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:44.199
And the other thing I would I
know that we don't have like a book

608
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:45.960
club for callers, but I would
like, I'm so curious to know what

609
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.760
you would think of this. It's
a book I have called White Too Long,

610
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:55.119
and it's by Robert P. Jones. He is a more liberal Christian

611
00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:00.159
and he's writing about the legacy of
white supremacy in America Christianity, and he

612
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:07.079
talks a lot in the chapter Theology
of White Supremacy about the habit of picking

613
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:09.920
and choosing the Bible that people did
to affirm what they were doing, and

614
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:14.159
how the modern church does the same
thing. And so I would be really

615
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:16.400
curious to know, like what you
think of that and how you would draw

616
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:22.440
a distinction between picking and choosing in
a way that is positive and doing it

617
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:25.039
in this sort of negative way,
or is it just that we're more enlightened

618
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:29.360
culture now, So I would really
love to know what you think of that.

619
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:32.079
Actually, I'm throwing that out there. Can you give me those two

620
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:35.880
names again, ma'am? Can you
give me those two names again? Ah?

621
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.880
Ma'am? I love it. Yeah. Sympathy for Paul by Derek Webb

622
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:46.400
is the song and then I'm gonna
say, Quite too Long by Robert P.

623
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:52.639
Jones. So Matthew, you could
always go back to and scroll scroll

624
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:58.000
back and see what we talked about. I just want to kind of summarize

625
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.639
everything that we've covered so far.
You wanted to call in and give us

626
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:04.880
a perspective of somebody that was a
little bit more liberal, not maybe the

627
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:09.079
more stereotypical right wing evangelical Christian,
And I get it you think that,

628
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:14.719
or I'm not going to say you
think you are a testing that you know,

629
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:19.039
the more liberal Christians. At least
the point of view that you take

630
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:23.840
is that you really need to kind
of focus on the good parts of what

631
00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:30.079
is coming out of Christianity, the
overall message and really the idea is to

632
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:36.960
work toward other people and not just
be selfish, right so I really appreciate

633
00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:40.480
that perspective. I want to say
that while I don't see much of a

634
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:45.480
difference right between that message and the
message that any other Christian would get would

635
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:51.320
give me, I do really appreciate
the way that you came in honestly spoke

636
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:54.320
with us and and you know,
had a mature conversation and didn't yell and

637
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:59.280
scream and do some of the things
that you don't like hearing from other Christians,

638
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:00.920
right, which maybe what prompted you
to call in the first place.

639
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:07.000
But my problem is this, Matthew. It's that where do you decide what

640
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.639
is good in the Bible and what
is not, What is going to help

641
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:15.280
your message, and what is going
to diminish it. If we all stuck

642
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:19.400
to the Bible, we would end
up in prison for the things that the

643
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.039
Bible tells us to do, or
maybe even worse right, especially women,

644
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:29.320
Women would be stoned to death for
being married and then being found out that

645
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.039
they weren't a virgin when they were
married. Right. Men, That doesn't

646
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:35.440
happen to men, right, So
there are some double standards there. But

647
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:37.559
if we were to follow the Bible, it wouldn't be a good thing for

648
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:40.800
us. So how do we decide
what's going to be good, what's going

649
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:45.400
to be bad, and do the
bad things not discredit the good things?

650
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.400
I think that they do. I
think the bad things very much discredit the

651
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:53.119
entire message. But more importantly,
with all of the disagreements that Christians have

652
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:58.239
not only with theists or excuse me, with atheists, but also with other

653
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:04.440
theists also between themselves. I think
God owes us an explanation and we're just

654
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:07.840
not getting that, and so we
have to have these conversations, and we're

655
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.400
happy to have them. Matthew,
I really appreciate your call. I thought

656
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:15.880
this was incredibly productive. I really
liked your perspective, and I'm going to

657
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.719
ask you to call back in the
future. I think this was wonderful,

658
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:22.559
but we are going to move on
to some other callers, So yeah,

659
00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:25.320
that's going to do it for Matthew
from Tennessee. Thank you so much,

660
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:30.679
Sophia. Any parting shots there,
I mean just that it really reminds me

661
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:35.239
so much of me, like I
was this person, and I don't look

662
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:37.840
back and say like it was bad
that I was that person. Then I

663
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.199
think it was part of my overall
evolution into what I believe now, but

664
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:49.360
it's almost hard to listen to someone
strain the same way to make these arguments

665
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.400
and to stay attached. And maybe
he doesn't experience it like that. Maybe

666
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.679
that's just how I experienced it at
the time, but I didn't even really

667
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:00.199
realize it until looking back, how
hard I was working to make these things

668
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:05.239
make sense. I think it's also
a lot of the people in my life

669
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:09.440
are still Christian, most by far, and many of them are progressive Christians,

670
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:14.199
I suppose you'd say, And my
frustration with them sometimes is that they're

671
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.960
very willing to tell me that other
Christians aren't like them or that they're different,

672
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.960
but they're less willing to tell other
Christians that. And so when I

673
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:23.239
look at it, like, if
you don't, yeah, if you don't

674
00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:27.199
want Christianity to be that, and
I'm not, I have no idea if

675
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.119
this is what Michael does or not. Maybe he totally stands up to people

676
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:32.519
in this way, but you can't
just tell me about it. You have

677
00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.360
to go talk to other Christians about
this. If this is your fight and

678
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:42.199
it's not really with me, if
you think they're corrupting the message of your

679
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:45.840
God, they are the ones you
need to tell, not me, so

680
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.360
it is. It is interesting.
I guess it brought up a lot for

681
00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:52.159
me. That's a particular call,
you know. I want to say sorry

682
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.679
to Michael. I think I called
him Matthew about three or four times.

683
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:59.239
Maybe it's because he brought up the
Gospels and I was just, you know,

684
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.639
fixed talking about Matthew. But I
don't know. Michael, Michael,

685
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:06.599
thank you if you're still watching,
thank you for your patience, Like,

686
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:10.320
oh my gosh, he's great.
And I truly do apologize for giving you

687
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:14.800
the wrong name. I hate that. But anyway, Sophia, we are

688
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:16.760
at the time where we are going
to read off the top five patriots.

689
00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:21.079
Do you want to take this one? Sure? All right? We have

690
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.880
patrons everyone decided up to be one. They're amazing. Our top five patrons

691
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:31.679
are Dingleberry Jackson because of course,
oops, all Singularity, dark Wolfy games

692
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:35.800
I think that's a new one to
me. I love that Dark Wolfy games

693
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:40.079
Yep, devar Valjean and okay,
I never say this one correctly, so

694
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:45.840
sorry about that. Cale. You
might need to help me. Helvetti Levi

695
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:49.559
hel Vetty. I think if you
put it an Italian accent, it must

696
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.280
be easier or something. So that
was Italian. I was supposed to be

697
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:58.039
Irish. I'm like super Mario Italian
maybe like so that that's where I went

698
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:02.119
with it. Yeah, And then
honorable mention to Russell Jensen, thank you

699
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:06.000
for having an easy name to say, beck Yeah, thank you so much.

700
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.119
Thank you so much for contributing to
us on Patreon. Folks, you

701
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:14.039
know we have the Patreon platform as
well. You should go on, you

702
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:16.119
know, get a membership. You
can access all of our content. You

703
00:48:16.119 --> 00:48:22.920
can send us some messages and we
do have or some some donations or whatever.

704
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:27.480
We do have other Patreon exclusive content
coming up too as well, so

705
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:30.400
you might want to check that out. But yeah, Dark Wolfie Games spoken

706
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:35.360
to dark Wolfy Games in the discord
several times, but it looks like he

707
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.159
knocked out Left in the Leaves.
I'm gonna shout out Left in the Leaves

708
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:42.239
because Left in the Leaves has been
on consistently for like, I don't know,

709
00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:45.079
four months, but seems like he
dropped off. So or she or

710
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:51.760
they anyway, we are going to
move to a different caller and we have

711
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.719
Mattias. I think I think I'm
saying that right in California. He him

712
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.840
wants to respectfully present evidence for God. Well, I'm looking forward to it.

713
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:05.880
Mattias. You are on with Jimmy
and Sophia. How can we help

714
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.800
you? Hello? Hey, I'm
the Tias. Yeah, I'm Mattias.

715
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:15.360
I am from Victorville. I'm calling
in on and the adult institution. Right,

716
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:19.760
I'm not like a program. Right. We can say whatever we want

717
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:22.239
freely. I'm going to ask you
to just be professional and respectful. But

718
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.400
I would like to know what your
evidence for God is. For sure,

719
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:30.840
my evidence for God. I think
maybe you got this before, but I

720
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:32.480
think it's in the sun and moon. You know, whenever you whenever you

721
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.800
look outside, don't you see don't
you see God's beauty at work? No?

722
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:42.280
No, man, I don't Sophia, why don't you Why don't you

723
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.719
kick it off? I think again. When I was a Christian, I

724
00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:51.599
would read God into nature, I
would read God into everything, And once

725
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.960
I stopped putting myself in that mindset, I was able to be in awe

726
00:49:55.280 --> 00:50:00.800
of the world as it is without
it needing to have some extraterrestrial meaning.

727
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:06.679
I'm looking outside right now and I
see like beautiful trees swaying and you know,

728
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:09.679
kind of the foggy sky, which
I love. But I see weather

729
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:14.440
patterns that I'm able to make meaning
out of. I don't see God there.

730
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:16.960
I know it's something that I'm putting
into it, but it doesn't diminish

731
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:21.960
it for me. I just do
not see this as self evidence, you

732
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:23.559
know, as like evidence for God. Well, yeah, I mean,

733
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:27.199
Mattias, I just want to throw
on there. I just want to throw

734
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.800
on there. Okay, we have
a sun and we have a moon,

735
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:32.960
right, Why should we equate that
with the deity when we know that the

736
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.960
story of and I'm going to assume, are you a Christian? I'm going

737
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:40.559
to I'm making an assumption I'm Christian. Okay, okay, So the very

738
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:45.320
basis for the creation of the universe, or the creation of our solar system,

739
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:47.440
at least in the New test or
excuse me, in the Old Testament,

740
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:52.280
in Genesis said that the sun and
the moon were contained inside of a

741
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:55.920
dome. Well, we know that
that's not true, right, So now

742
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:01.800
that story completely falls apart. Why
should I give any credit to God being

743
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.800
associated with the sun in the moon. Because if God, God makes God

744
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:09.519
makes everything right, that's what we
believe. And so if God makes,

745
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:14.000
if God makes like the sun in
the moon, then he all then he

746
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:17.800
also brings on every other, every
other disease. And how that's a huge

747
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:22.199
leap though, So so I have
to grant you. I will grant you

748
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:24.920
one thing. Okay, Let's assume
God creates the sun in the moon.

749
00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:29.480
How does that mean that he creates
everything else? What he what? If

750
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:31.199
he's a god that just creates suns
and moons? What I mean, how

751
00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:35.760
do you go from God created sun
of the moon, so that must mean

752
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:38.719
he creates everything else? Okay?
Uh so now explain to me how you

753
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:43.079
know that he created anything. Well, first of all, if he made

754
00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:45.840
sun and moons, then he'd be
an AbTech. Second of all, I

755
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:51.119
think that I think that out like
our God, right, the Christian God

756
00:51:51.519 --> 00:51:54.159
makes and it makes every it makes
everything. Right, It's not I guess

757
00:51:54.280 --> 00:51:58.920
I'm using the sun and moon was
a bad example, right. But I

758
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.079
mean, if you just if you
just walk out, if you just walk

759
00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:05.239
outside your yard, and if you
look at all these miracles online, then

760
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:10.159
you believe miracles online. Who on? I don't want to get too far.

761
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:13.119
I know that you have something else
you want to add. But we

762
00:52:13.159 --> 00:52:15.920
need to kind of address a couple
of things. Right, So, you

763
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:19.880
say that God creates sun in the
moon. We have no proof of that.

764
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.239
We have absolutely no proof of that, and the account that we do

765
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:27.199
have is incorrect. We know that
the mechanics of how the universe and the

766
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.920
solar system is set up do not
fit the story that we were given by

767
00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:35.039
the founders of your religion. Right. Then you claim that because God can

768
00:52:35.079 --> 00:52:37.960
do one thing, he can do
another, Well, how do you prove

769
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:40.880
that? So now asking you to
take a second step? Right, So,

770
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:45.840
first we can't really prove the first
step, but let's just grant it

771
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:47.159
to you. So, now,
how does he create everything? I mean,

772
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:50.719
you didn't give me an answer on
that. How do you know that

773
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:53.400
that makes sense? You know?
And it's okay to say we don't know.

774
00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:55.880
I mean, I think a lot
of people are really uncomfortable saying,

775
00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:59.960
well, I don't know how that
happens. Therefore God, But really it's

776
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:01.559
okay to say we don't know.
We don't know a lot of things and

777
00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:06.320
maybe we never will. Uh.
So there's two things right there. But

778
00:53:06.599 --> 00:53:08.719
I also want to ask you,
you know about your God, the Christian

779
00:53:08.760 --> 00:53:12.920
God? Uh, what is the
name of your god. Do you know

780
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:16.440
what that is? Yahweh? Yahweh. I think that Yahweh. So,

781
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:22.400
so is there another name for your
god besides Yahweh Jesus? Okay, all

782
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:27.599
right, So so Yahweh. What
if I told you that Yahweh was not

783
00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:30.960
the Christian or the Christian Judeo the
Judeo Christian god that you think it was,

784
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:36.159
and it actually is older than Judaism
and it comes from a different part

785
00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:37.719
of the planet, would you believe
me? Well, I'm not gonna lie.

786
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:43.679
I did not know that, you
know, Pentecostalism and whatnot. You

787
00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:47.199
know, it's I'm learning something new
every day, and oh hey, that's

788
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:50.880
what we're here for. Man,
I appreciate that you feel that way.

789
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.599
Look, I want to tell you
something. So Yahweh. The name Yahweh

790
00:53:53.599 --> 00:54:00.800
comes from ancient Mesopotamia, right,
we're talking pre two thousand BC. Okay,

791
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:04.559
so that's like five thousand years ago
now, but earlier than that.

792
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:08.079
And Yahweh was the god of rain
and the god of storms. Okay,

793
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:13.199
so a group apparently, And you
can match this up with the story of

794
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:17.800
Abraham traveled to the med to the
eastern Mediterranean, and what is called the

795
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:22.559
Levant, where the Canaanites lived right
in the land of Canan, probably probably

796
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:28.039
better pronounced Kannonites, right, But
in any case, we know that people

797
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:34.920
traveled from Mesopotamia up the Euphrates River
and into down into the Levant, because

798
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:39.039
we have ancient texts engraved in stone
that say, hey, they were visitors

799
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:44.840
from Mesopotamia that traveled this way.
Very likely they brought their gods with them.

800
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:46.920
So you know, it's it's feasible
to say, well, the story

801
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:52.000
of Abraham could be true in the
sense that people migrated from Mesopotamia to the

802
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:57.599
eastern Mediterranean, and they likely brought
their gods with them. We see that

803
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:00.519
all the time. And I have
a book that I would like to recommend

804
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:05.880
to you. So it is called
Ancient Mediterranean Civilizations, okay, and you

805
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.440
can google it and it's by a
it's written by a group. Yeah,

806
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:14.159
I can't remember that, Captivating History. It's written by a group called Captivating

807
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:17.679
History. And in that book you
will read all about different civilizations around the

808
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:23.039
Mediterranean. The Carthaginians, the Phoenicians, the Minoans, the Mycenians, the

809
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:28.239
Etruscans, the Romans, the Egyptians. They all shared their gods, and

810
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:32.360
as one civilization traded with another,
they gave their gods away and they were

811
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:37.519
adopted. Right. So Poseidon,
for example, Poseidon, the Greek god

812
00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:39.559
of the water, he actually started
off as a Greek god of the underworld

813
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:42.920
with the ancient Minoans. I mean, it's the oldest god that we know

814
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:45.800
of. He predates Zeus. In
any case, what I'm trying to tell

815
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.679
you is that, you know,
like you said, as there's always something

816
00:55:50.719 --> 00:55:53.480
to learn, you might want to
dig into what it is you actually believe

817
00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:57.440
and figure out if you actually believe
it. You know, because there's a

818
00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:01.599
lot deeper history and you realize or
maybe if you realize like I did,

819
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:07.280
that these gods and religions are just
made up by humans. You know,

820
00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:12.440
it's it's likely that we made them
up to fit our own narrative, you

821
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:15.039
know, not the other way around. God didn't create us for some uh

822
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:19.599
some higher purpose, but we in
fact created them. I don't know.

823
00:56:19.639 --> 00:56:22.960
I'm sorry for my rants. I'm
gonna throw it in there to you real

824
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.960
quick. Yeah that. Oh sorry, did you have something you wanted to

825
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:30.239
say with ts? I wanted to
say that while while we can't exactly go

826
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:32.880
out there and say God is right
in front of us, you know,

827
00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:37.280
like I'm never going to see him
near my gas station. But if I

828
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:43.039
meant that at that same at the
same time, you can't really say that

829
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.920
God is not out there. I
mean I can't say, sorry, I

830
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:51.440
can't say unicorns aren't out there either, like that. That's disproving something is

831
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:55.440
much harder than proving it. And
just because something we can't say that something

832
00:56:55.760 --> 00:57:00.239
isn't there doesn't doesn't mean that it
is true. I mean, it's true

833
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:04.280
that maybe Santa's really good at hiding
at the North Pole, maybe the Tooth

834
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:07.079
Fairy is actually just really sneaky,
maybe she's magical, maybe she's actually just

835
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:10.280
a spirit. You can't say she's
not. And so that's just sort of

836
00:57:10.320 --> 00:57:15.519
the lowest, lowest, lowest level
of just you can't disprove it. And

837
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:19.559
I kind of feel like, so
far, what you've presented as an argument

838
00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:23.360
for God is basically vibes. That
you look at nature and its vibes tell

839
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:28.880
you that there's a God and you
think that that makes itself evident to others.

840
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:31.280
Good for you, that's what your
vibes give you. But that's really

841
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:37.239
kind of what this amounts to it's
just some vibes. Can I respectfully interject

842
00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.840
here? Go ahead. What I
wanted to say was it was, first

843
00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:45.280
of all, we know Santa and
the tooth chairry is not real. For

844
00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:50.000
me, it was anecdotal evidence because
my uncle dressed up as Santa and he

845
00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:54.920
tripped over those cords, you know, those little like Christmas cords, and

846
00:57:55.679 --> 00:58:00.320
he shit his hands. So you
don't want that, right, But you

847
00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:06.280
know what my anecdotal evidence, right, was the stories that I just explained

848
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:12.119
to you, right, investigating human
history, investigating the build up of civilization

849
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:17.440
and seeing that seeing how gods were
created to play a role in legitimizing the

850
00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:22.039
rise up of certain civilizations. Right
the Carthaginians when they settled, you know,

851
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:28.519
that's when their gods, their gods
started representing their cities. Right.

852
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:34.199
The same thing happened when different trade
routes were established. You know, they

853
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:37.360
found a god to kind of protect
them and look over them. I mean,

854
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:40.760
this is it's ubiquitous, right,
It is existing everywhere at once.

855
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:45.000
It's all over the place. And
so to say that one god, the

856
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:49.239
one god that you believe in,
happens to be the right one based on

857
00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:53.519
the sun and the moon is really
no different than what people fought five six

858
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:57.880
thousand years ago about the gods that
they were coming up with. And so

859
00:58:58.000 --> 00:59:00.559
I don't believe that you have presented
us evidence. In fact, you have

860
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:06.519
just kind of done more of the
same. You really have struggled to identify,

861
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:09.440
you know, what it is out
there that you understand the world to

862
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:13.920
be, and you've kind of just
put God on top of it to explain

863
00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:16.679
it. Does that make sense?
Yeah? That makes sense? Can I

864
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:20.880
can I can I give my thoughts
out there a little? Because you know,

865
00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:23.599
I'm trying to I'm trying to like
convey just my first debate. So

866
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:29.199
I'm a little on the edge because
I because I want I want everybody to

867
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:31.119
not like turn to God, but
I want them to at least see my

868
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:35.000
views when you do know what I
mean. And so uh uh, maybe

869
00:59:35.079 --> 00:59:38.559
I haven't been those ideas properly,
but I guess what I'm trying to say

870
00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:43.400
is that, being honest, we
never really know if there's a god out

871
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:47.119
there. And I've been switching from
atheists to christian I got a little I

872
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:52.480
got a little loss loss in the
woods there with the scientology, but then,

873
00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:57.159
uh, in my in my opinion, right, Christianity at its core

874
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:00.960
is all about sacrifice. It's all
about you. You never really you never

875
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.639
really know what's out there. So
maybe maybe for like maybe for other atheists,

876
01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:07.800
they don't get why we turn to
Christianity, right, But for me,

877
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:13.800
I get it because whenever I'm whenever
I whenever I'm like feeling terrible or

878
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:19.159
something like that, I look forward
to Christianity. I Uh, Christianity is

879
01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:22.440
kind of a limit for us,
be honest. If there are tons of

880
01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.000
bad people out there, right,
tons of bad people out there. But

881
01:00:25.559 --> 01:00:30.360
whenever you see somebody turn to Christianity, more often than not than not,

882
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:34.760
they start doing they start doing that, they start doing less bad things.

883
01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:37.440
And well, I don't know if
that's I don't know if that's true.

884
01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:43.119
If people become religious, it doesn't
mean that they start doing bad things or

885
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:47.360
stop doing bad things. Uh.
You know, the the epidemic of child

886
01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:52.159
molestation in churches is running rampant,
and it has been. I mean,

887
01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:55.679
let's face it, there is probably
so much we don't know. Uh,

888
01:00:55.719 --> 01:01:00.920
But a study from last year showed
that between nineteen fifty and the year twenty

889
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:08.039
twenty three hundred thousand children were molested
in French cathedrals, And how do you

890
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:12.639
justify that? Excuse me? And
yeah, did I say nineteen fifteen,

891
01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:16.159
twenty twenty, three hundred thousand?
How do you justify that God is in

892
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:20.519
those churches, that God is looking
out for their best interests? I mean,

893
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:24.639
God might make you feel good,
but existing as the moral compass and

894
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:30.400
as the all powerful and all loving
God, you know, it's it's just

895
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:34.000
doesn't check, man, it doesn't
make sense, it doesn't logically follow.

896
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.360
So what I think you've given us
right now is your reason for believing in

897
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.199
God. And that's because it makes
you feel good. And that's okay,

898
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:45.840
yes, but go ahead, Sophia. So I really need to quote something

899
01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:50.719
to you that I just found this
week because it does a great job of

900
01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:53.159
countering what you just argued, that
people start doing better things. So you

901
01:01:53.199 --> 01:02:00.480
know who Frederick Douglas was, Yeah, maybe the black guy who he was,

902
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:05.599
the black dude, prominent abolitionist.
He was a slave and he wrote

903
01:02:05.639 --> 01:02:07.800
a lot, so we'll just we'll
just go with that. Was having a

904
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:15.920
belt doone? But yes, so
Frederick Douglas wrote in When His Master Converted,

905
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:20.679
which it feels dirty to just say
master of another person rich anyway.

906
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:24.880
But when he converted to Christianity,
Frederick Douglas really hoped that this would improve

907
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:30.000
his behavior. As this book,
I'm just really recording this lot white too

908
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:34.480
long references. So Douglas notes that
he initially welcomed the news of all his

909
01:02:34.559 --> 01:02:38.440
master's conversion with some faint hope that
these newfound Christian beliefs would lead his master

910
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:43.800
to emancipaid him of and his fellow
slaves, or at least to treat them

911
01:02:43.800 --> 01:02:47.119
more humanely. But Douglas was quickly
disappointed, finding that the addition of Christian

912
01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:52.360
faith into the household actually made conditions
worse. For what old found in Christianity

913
01:02:52.639 --> 01:02:58.039
was not a prick of conscious conscience
leading to moderation and benevolence, but rather

914
01:02:58.159 --> 01:03:01.920
sturdier support for his cruelty. Douglas
saw the perverse dynamic clearly prior to his

915
01:03:01.960 --> 01:03:06.760
conversion, and this is quoting Frederick
Douglass. He relied upon his own depravity

916
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:10.000
to shield and sustain him in his
savage barbarity, but after his conversion he

917
01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:15.639
found religious sanction and support for his
slaveholding cruelty. And this is not the

918
01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:21.719
only example that even this book alone
gives of people who convert to Christianity because

919
01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:23.719
now the evil they do, they
can do by divine mandate. So it

920
01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:29.519
just gets ten times worse. The
cover up of child molestation in the Catholic

921
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:34.719
Church, or in the Southern Baptist
Convention, or we can list a huge

922
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:38.159
number of churches here. Those were
all done to preserve the glory of God,

923
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:43.159
to preserve this idea that people are
better within the church. And so

924
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:49.440
I don't even think that I need
to really question or argue against this idea

925
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:52.719
that Christianity makes people better, because
I think, if you have your eyes

926
01:03:52.760 --> 01:03:58.440
opened, it's so self evidently nonsense. Yeah. So you know, Mattias,

927
01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:01.960
I think right there is a good
stopping point for us because you called

928
01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:05.360
in to present evidence. I don't
think hold on, say, I don't

929
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:10.920
think that Sophia or I really buy
the evidence that you presented, and we've

930
01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:13.960
given our reasons why. But you
did raise a point. You know,

931
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:19.360
people are become better versions of themselves
when they become Christian or maybe you know,

932
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:23.159
when they convert to religion in general. I don't know, uh,

933
01:04:23.599 --> 01:04:26.519
but I think you should call back
with that. I think you should go

934
01:04:26.840 --> 01:04:30.800
and do your research and really present
a good argument and call back. Call

935
01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:34.400
back anytime, don't wait for Sophia
and I call back next week and present

936
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:41.159
your argument for Christianity helping people be
better people. But I thought we had

937
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:44.440
a wonderful conversation. Go ahead and
Tea. Think you sound like you're trying

938
01:04:44.440 --> 01:04:45.960
to get something in, and if
it's really important, go ahead and present

939
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:51.079
it. I just want, I
just want my closing thoughts of a quick

940
01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:56.239
rebuttal. I think while you could
say, while you could say that Christianity

941
01:04:56.639 --> 01:05:00.920
oppressed oppressed a bunch of people,
I think you can also look at the

942
01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:04.400
good examples of Christianity and look at
John Brown, who was very radically opposed

943
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:10.719
to slavery because of the Bible,
because he would because he didn't. Right,

944
01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:14.480
So, Matias, Mitias, I
apologize. I'm going to cut you

945
01:05:14.519 --> 01:05:16.760
off the hare because I, like
I said, I want this to be

946
01:05:17.480 --> 01:05:21.079
a conversation for future reference. I
want this to be a future conversation.

947
01:05:21.159 --> 01:05:28.119
We had one conversation with you regarding
evidence. We pivoted to Christianity's impact on

948
01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:31.079
people's behavior, and I want to
take that second part and have it again

949
01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:34.159
later. So what I'm going to
do is we're going to move on.

950
01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:38.840
I really appreciate you Matias for calling
in thought. I thought Mattias was great,

951
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:42.920
honestly, really respectful, did exactly
what he said, wants to respectfully

952
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:45.159
present evidence for God, and he
did that well. He was respectful.

953
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:47.679
I don't know that he gave evidence
for God, but in any case,

954
01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:50.199
we're going to hear back from him, hopefully, and I hope to talk

955
01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:54.800
to him again soon. So with
that, I want to read a super

956
01:05:54.920 --> 01:05:59.760
chat. We got ten dollars from
x million for the first time when Sophia

957
01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:02.800
is co hosting my talk Heathen submission
was not selected. I'll have to promote

958
01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:08.079
it myself. God even still credit
for creating evil for fuck's sake. Isaiah

959
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:11.480
forty five seven. Okay, well, hey, that's one way to do

960
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.920
it. Look, if you don't
get selected in the top three, if

961
01:06:13.960 --> 01:06:16.719
you give us money, we'll read
it. Honestly, So, Sophia,

962
01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:20.239
looks like you're having a negative impact
on this guy being selected. What's what's

963
01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:25.239
going on? So I'm sorry,
Yeah, I don't know. My vibes

964
01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:29.320
were off. I guess, yeah, but that is really funny and I

965
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:31.960
appreciate it and I'm glad. That's
awesome. X million, X million is

966
01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:35.480
family. He's uh he or she? I could ever remember it were they?

967
01:06:35.960 --> 01:06:39.280
I'm sorry, I probably talked to
you before, but I know that

968
01:06:39.320 --> 01:06:42.519
I see your name everywhere. You're
in the discord, you're in the comments,

969
01:06:42.559 --> 01:06:46.119
you're everywhere. So I appreciate x
million, but I want to you

970
01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:48.599
know, Sophia, I was in
the supermarket last week, and I've been

971
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:55.320
in the supermarket every week, and
there's always these like bibles or religious books,

972
01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:59.039
you know, in the lobby where
there's a bulletin board and it advertises

973
01:06:59.119 --> 01:07:01.559
church services and like that. So
I finally grabbed somebody who worked there and

974
01:07:01.559 --> 01:07:04.079
I'm like, hey, what do
I need to do to be able to

975
01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:06.440
put something up that I want to
put up? And they said, well,

976
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:11.039
you just need to talk to you
know, the customer service. But

977
01:07:11.239 --> 01:07:13.559
the line was super long. But
I said, well, why do I

978
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:15.039
need to talk to somebody about it? There's all this stuff up here.

979
01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:17.840
It's it's all religious content. You
know what if I just wanted to put

980
01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:21.039
my own religious related content and they
said, ah, we need to make

981
01:07:21.079 --> 01:07:25.719
sure it's not offensive. So I
haven't put up my own flyer yet,

982
01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:30.079
although I plan on doing it,
But that just really like is mind boggling.

983
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:34.320
What do they mean? Does somebody
get to choose like what's offensive religiously

984
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:38.320
and what's not? Like is it
something that they disagree with? I don't

985
01:07:38.360 --> 01:07:42.960
know. But but for everybody listening, you know, we have our own

986
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:46.320
flyers from the ACA. It's available
on a tiny dot c c forward slash

987
01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:51.239
ACA flyers and so they're printable flyers. They're advertising for people to call in

988
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:57.400
and hang them up somewhere with permission
and encourage people to call up and defend

989
01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:00.519
their faith. They should, they
should be engaging with the show. And

990
01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:02.920
if you post it anywhere, take
a picture of yourself with it, and

991
01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:06.239
we might just air it on the
show as long as it's tasteful. So

992
01:08:06.239 --> 01:08:12.840
so email that photo to TV at
atheist typeocommunity dot org and hopefully we can

993
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.239
get you up. But uh yeah, we we have the flyers. I

994
01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:18.439
post a video every week every every
time before I go on, I post

995
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:21.760
to my my own personal TikTok.
But uh talk Heath it also has its

996
01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:25.840
own TikTok, so go ahead and
join us there. We have pre show

997
01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:30.560
lives at the ACA TikTok Atheist Community
of Boston, and we also have talk

998
01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:33.800
Heathen TikTok. So look us up
there and feel free to like this this

999
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:39.439
video, subscribe to our channel,
enable notifications, and comment on your favorite

1000
01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:44.359
callers. So tell us why Sophia
is your favorite host as well. And

1001
01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:48.159
if you say it's because of my
boobs, because that's that's why I'm my

1002
01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:57.479
favorite host. So you know,
Wellten's gonna argue with you. You know

1003
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:01.279
it's this is an unfair advantage because
I don't have boobs. But in any

1004
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:03.560
case, we're going to move on. We've got some other theists callers that

1005
01:09:03.640 --> 01:09:09.359
want to talk to us in conjunction
with what we want to talk about today.

1006
01:09:09.640 --> 01:09:12.840
We have Michael from California. He
him, who's a theist, says

1007
01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:16.920
usually, yeah, God values everyone
equally for different reasons, regardless of gender.

1008
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:21.000
So I would like to talk to
Michael. And Michael, you're on

1009
01:09:21.039 --> 01:09:24.399
with Jimmy and Sophia. How can
I help you? How can we help

1010
01:09:24.439 --> 01:09:28.720
you? Excuse me? Yeah,
So, I thought that the prompt as

1011
01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:32.600
far as in the video was pretty
interesting, you know, to talk about

1012
01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:36.640
and so so and so. I
just I wanted to talk about that you

1013
01:09:36.640 --> 01:09:41.000
know, and just sort of you
know, uh yeah, pretty much.

1014
01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:47.199
We have a conversation about about gods, about God valuing everyone, am I

1015
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:54.439
and I would say yes on the
basis of on the basis of the way

1016
01:09:54.439 --> 01:09:59.760
that God sees humanity. The way
that God sees humanity is that is that

1017
01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:02.439
we have all sinned against him.
We have all, in other words,

1018
01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:10.119
we have all broken God's commands.
Whether it's lying, whether it's harboring hateful

1019
01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:15.399
thoughts and whatnot. They're going towards
other people to to to whether it's stealing,

1020
01:10:15.680 --> 01:10:19.960
you know, from somebody else.
We've all, in one form of

1021
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.640
fashion, we we've all broken God's
law, in God's command and whatnot.

1022
01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:31.800
But but that still does not deter
him from loving everybody with the same love

1023
01:10:32.159 --> 01:10:39.399
or that he exemplified on the cross
by sacrificing and shedding his blood on the

1024
01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:42.239
cross to pay for those sins,
to pay the penalty for that. All

1025
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:45.880
right, well, let's not let's
not move into let's not move into preaching

1026
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:49.520
here. We got it. Uh
So you think that God treats everybody equally

1027
01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:55.640
regardless of gender, even though we
have all done some bad things against him.

1028
01:10:55.680 --> 01:10:59.880
I'm gonna I'm gonna let Sophia take
this one. I think she's got

1029
01:11:00.119 --> 01:11:02.600
thoughts on this, and and Sophia, please Yeah. Is it not said

1030
01:11:02.600 --> 01:11:05.199
that I that women are saved through
child bearing? Is that a version of

1031
01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:11.960
a Yeah? I believe yes it
is. It is so when we're talking

1032
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:16.039
about God treating every equally, says
many things about salvation, but only for

1033
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:20.000
women? Is it supposed to be
because I push a human out that doesn't

1034
01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:25.840
sound equal to me? Well,
well, I wouldn't argue that that me

1035
01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:29.359
personally, I wouldn't argue that that
that that in and of itself is a

1036
01:11:29.399 --> 01:11:32.600
means of salvation in the way is
the Bible. Then the Bible says it.

1037
01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:40.800
And so you wouldn't argument though,
why not because the means of said

1038
01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:45.680
because the means is because the means
of salvation, once again was the sacrifice.

1039
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:48.720
That that what that Jesus paid on
the cross, and that's not what

1040
01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:54.479
in him that we can be saved. But that's not what the Bible says.

1041
01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:58.359
It talks about that, But then
it also says that women specifically are

1042
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:00.600
saved through child bearing. So I
don't stand how you just ignore that part.

1043
01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:03.560
I feel like that's kind of a
just just that, like, I

1044
01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:06.439
don't really need to give a lot
more because I feel like there we already

1045
01:12:06.439 --> 01:12:11.279
see that there's aequality in the Bible, and I think that this isn't even

1046
01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:14.199
bringing it in any way into a
modern day when we look at how women

1047
01:12:14.199 --> 01:12:18.239
are treated in religious societies. And
so I feel like, again, other

1048
01:12:18.279 --> 01:12:21.720
than you just deciding to ignore that
and saying you wouldn't argue it, because

1049
01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:26.079
of course you wouldn't, because that
does that wouldn't defend your point, but

1050
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:29.239
it's just as much a part of
the Bible, Like how do you I

1051
01:12:29.239 --> 01:12:30.960
don't know, Jimmy, do you
have something to add there? But because

1052
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:38.840
I feel like I disagree that all
fenders are are treated equally, I don't

1053
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:43.640
think that that's true. I also
think that you know on this point that

1054
01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:46.520
women are saved through child bearing.
I think it speaks to kind of another

1055
01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:50.239
point. You know, when we
talk about original sin women, I think

1056
01:12:50.239 --> 01:12:56.319
we're given the far worst punishment.
Men don't have to go through anything that

1057
01:12:56.600 --> 01:12:58.840
women have to go through. When
you want to talk about the pain of

1058
01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:01.399
child bearing, I mean not only
the pain but the death that's involved.

1059
01:13:01.399 --> 01:13:05.279
And I've talked about this before,
but you know, how do you equate

1060
01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:11.239
that, How do you consider all
genders equal when women clearly are the blame

1061
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:15.239
for the sin that you talk about. So I don't know, that's that's

1062
01:13:15.279 --> 01:13:18.439
my initial thought. I would my
mind goes directly there. But then there

1063
01:13:18.439 --> 01:13:23.079
are all these other things, right. I don't think that God values women

1064
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:27.720
because there are quotes in the Bible
that say that women should submit to their

1065
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:30.920
husbands the same way that they should
submit to God, because men are the

1066
01:13:31.159 --> 01:13:34.960
head of the house household, just
as God is the is the head of

1067
01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:40.520
their faith or whatever. I'm misquoting
that, but you get my gist.

1068
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:44.600
Women, again, I've mentioned this
earlier, can be stoned to death for

1069
01:13:44.680 --> 01:13:48.359
reasons that men would never be stoned
to death. For even Jesus talks about

1070
01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:55.399
women being in the domestic sphere of
the household, right saying things like,

1071
01:13:55.479 --> 01:13:58.159
well, give your wife this bread
to need for you and things like that.

1072
01:13:58.720 --> 01:14:01.600
So this is a this a mindset
that is consistent throughout the Bible,

1073
01:14:01.800 --> 01:14:04.560
and I don't see it being equal
at all. Now that's just in the

1074
01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:10.840
Bible. Let's talk about genders nowadays. Does the church? Do churches consider

1075
01:14:10.880 --> 01:14:13.960
women equal to men? I think
not. I think there are many religions

1076
01:14:14.000 --> 01:14:19.000
where women are not allowed to Women
are not allowed to hold the same responsibilities

1077
01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:23.319
as men. Right Christianity, specifically, the Bible states, you know,

1078
01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:27.760
women can't be in positions of authority
in church, they shouldn't teach, and

1079
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:30.560
I think in many Christian sects that's
still the case. Some of them have

1080
01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:33.800
deviated, but you know, for
the most part, they're still being acted

1081
01:14:33.840 --> 01:14:38.199
out today. Let's talk about transgender
people. Do you think that they are

1082
01:14:38.199 --> 01:14:43.439
being treated fairly by Christian evangelicals today? Absolutely not. And so there's a

1083
01:14:43.479 --> 01:14:45.960
lot of things that we can point
to that I think render this idea of

1084
01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:55.399
God treating all genders equal just really
counterproductive and in contrast to what you're claiming.

1085
01:14:55.840 --> 01:15:01.079
So okay, So, so the
point that I would make is that

1086
01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:06.960
in those examples that you gave that
yes, it is that that that that

1087
01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:13.920
it's true that people that we don't
treat women, men, transgender people,

1088
01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:18.600
that we don't treat them with respect
and with love as they should be treated

1089
01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:24.000
with respect and love. That's not
the argument. The argument is whether or

1090
01:15:24.039 --> 01:15:31.159
not God sees treats everybody fairly?
Where how does God view mankind as opposed

1091
01:15:31.199 --> 01:15:36.279
to me viewing mankind, or as
opposed to somebody else, another human being

1092
01:15:36.600 --> 01:15:43.800
viewing mankind. Our views are our
views of one another are differently, and

1093
01:15:43.880 --> 01:15:47.880
because we as human beings, we
do view people on the basis of race,

1094
01:15:47.960 --> 01:15:50.880
on the basis of sex, on
the basis of religion, on the

1095
01:15:50.880 --> 01:15:56.560
basis of disability, on the basis
of weight. People place its value,

1096
01:15:57.359 --> 01:16:02.760
people place its value on physical on
physical attributes that God does not consider to

1097
01:16:02.840 --> 01:16:08.159
be worthy of merits, and that
God wouldn't say, Okay, because you're

1098
01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:12.479
skinny or because you're fat, that
going do you get to be with me?

1099
01:16:12.560 --> 01:16:15.560
It's not on the basis of physical
It's not on the basis of physical

1100
01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:18.800
attributes, if you will, all
right, Well, Michael, these are

1101
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:21.840
a lot of you're making a lot
of claims right now, and there's just

1102
01:16:21.920 --> 01:16:25.720
no way to support them. Sophia, did you have something that you wanted

1103
01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:29.600
to comment? Pretty simple and short, really, for it to be true

1104
01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:32.920
that God doesn't value us based upon
our physical attributes like gender, we'll just

1105
01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:36.319
go with gender. Will not address
race in the Bible or anything else like

1106
01:16:36.359 --> 01:16:40.359
that, you'd have to ignore the
Bible. You'd have to say that the

1107
01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:44.279
Bible does not speak for God,
because it is made explicit many times that

1108
01:16:44.359 --> 01:16:47.840
the expectations for me if I were
to follow God would be extremely different than

1109
01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:53.439
the expectations for men. And not
only is being safe through child bearing part

1110
01:16:53.479 --> 01:16:57.199
of the Bible, but the expectations
for me would be to be quiet,

1111
01:16:57.399 --> 01:17:00.960
to be a follower. It would
be assumed that my ideas are not nearly

1112
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:03.439
as important. And I know every
exception can be pointed out in the Bible.

1113
01:17:03.479 --> 01:17:05.880
With women, people try to pretend
that, like, well, there's

1114
01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:10.039
a few women mentioned in the New
Testament that sort of were part of the

1115
01:17:10.119 --> 01:17:12.960
church, so that counts, or
Debra's in the Old Testament she was a

1116
01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:16.880
leader. It's fine to have a
few exceptions, but when it comes to

1117
01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:20.920
the stated rules about who I am
supposed to be, it absolutely does not

1118
01:17:21.079 --> 01:17:26.800
treat us differently, or it absolutely
does treat us differently. So either God

1119
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:30.960
doesn't view us, or God doesn't
view us as being different and he values

1120
01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:34.359
men and women equally, and the
Bible does not speak for God because that's

1121
01:17:34.359 --> 01:17:39.880
the only way that could be true, or God does see us as being

1122
01:17:40.159 --> 01:17:43.760
of different value depending upon our gender, and the Bible does speak for him.

1123
01:17:43.880 --> 01:17:47.479
So basically, what you're saying is
contradicting the Bible's own report of gender.

1124
01:17:48.239 --> 01:17:50.720
I mean, if you believe the
Bible, then you can't believe that's

1125
01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:55.479
true. And Michael, I would
just want to add that you are speaking

1126
01:17:55.720 --> 01:17:59.960
on behalf of God right now,
and you have not given evidence for him.

1127
01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:02.159
You know that that's true. Right, So you're telling us the way

1128
01:18:02.199 --> 01:18:05.199
that God looks at us, uh, and that's different from the way that

1129
01:18:05.239 --> 01:18:10.239
we look at each other. But
you also then need to uh supply us

1130
01:18:10.279 --> 01:18:14.760
with proof that you know how God
looks at people. Okay, okay,

1131
01:18:14.840 --> 01:18:18.279
so how does God view people?
Well? What about what about what Sophia

1132
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:21.359
just said? What about everything that
Sophia just said? Though, I mean,

1133
01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:28.359
don't just let's not skip that,
like what like what like as far

1134
01:18:28.399 --> 01:18:32.199
as what specifically because she said a
lot? All right, do you couldn't

1135
01:18:32.199 --> 01:18:36.279
grab one thing out of that?
Now now you're talking Okay, so you're

1136
01:18:38.119 --> 01:18:43.319
okay, so you're talking about women
not having positions of authority and whatnot,

1137
01:18:43.520 --> 01:18:46.439
like I'm talking about how Okay,
clearly the Bible treats us differently based on

1138
01:18:46.520 --> 01:18:49.880
gender, and if that is the
word of God, then God treats us

1139
01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:54.680
differently based upon gender. Yeah,
you know what, I'm actually I'm gonna

1140
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:59.359
I'm gonna take a swing at a
left field here. But Michael, I'm

1141
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:01.600
actually gonna ad ask you to call
us back because Sophia kind of just made

1142
01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:05.119
some good points and spoke for a
minute, and you really I don't think

1143
01:19:05.159 --> 01:19:09.319
that you were paying attention, man, So what I'm going to do is

1144
01:19:09.479 --> 01:19:13.319
ask you to call back and and
come in a little bit more focused next

1145
01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:16.000
time, because we have other callers
on the line that that have been waiting

1146
01:19:16.039 --> 01:19:21.159
and they they really want to stay
actively engaged and pay attention. So what

1147
01:19:21.199 --> 01:19:24.600
we are going to do now is
pivot, and Michael, thank you for

1148
01:19:24.640 --> 01:19:28.880
calling. I mean, hey,
I wish everybody was as respectful and open

1149
01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:30.520
as you are. But you know, we just can't waste our time here.

1150
01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:33.319
It's it's limited. So what I
want to do is move on to

1151
01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:38.600
John. He him from the UK, wants to talk about what resurrection means.

1152
01:19:38.800 --> 01:19:42.359
All right, So, uh,
John, you are on with Jimmy

1153
01:19:42.399 --> 01:19:45.880
and Sophia. What can we do
for you? Hey? John, You're

1154
01:19:45.920 --> 01:19:48.600
on with Jimmy and Sophia. Hi
guys, Oh hey, this is run

1155
01:19:48.840 --> 01:19:54.000
Yeah, speak from the pun So
thank you foringvising me. I've come on

1156
01:19:54.039 --> 01:19:57.359
behalf of Richard, who I've had
a few conversations with on TikTok that the

1157
01:19:57.399 --> 01:20:01.199
character limits stops them talking properly.
He invited me, he invited me to

1158
01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:03.800
join you quite a while ago.
To be honest about I've been so busy,

1159
01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:09.079
I just haven't gone meat here I
am so I mean, that's kind

1160
01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:12.560
of a headline of really the resurrection
thing that only came about because I heard

1161
01:20:12.560 --> 01:20:15.880
you talking to my mother guy about
resurrection, and I just wanted to point

1162
01:20:15.880 --> 01:20:19.000
out that there's a lot of misunderstanding
about what resurrection actually mean. I mean,

1163
01:20:19.239 --> 01:20:24.000
when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, that wasn't resurrection. That was

1164
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:27.960
bringing him back to life. So
Jesus didn't come back to life because if

1165
01:20:28.000 --> 01:20:30.119
he come back to life, he
would have had to die again at some

1166
01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:32.760
point later on in his life,
as we all do. He came to

1167
01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:39.680
new life, he was resurrected back
to his original day hide position with the

1168
01:20:39.720 --> 01:20:43.159
Father, and for a short time
before that he was on earth speaking to

1169
01:20:43.199 --> 01:20:45.920
people eating fish. And I know
there are issues there, but he wasn't,

1170
01:20:46.039 --> 01:20:49.119
you know, he wasn't back to
life. As a human being.

1171
01:20:49.119 --> 01:20:51.640
It's not a case of to coming
back to life and walking around again.

1172
01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:56.279
So I just wanted to make that
important point about what the resurrection actually means.

1173
01:20:56.920 --> 01:21:00.199
It's a regeneration to a completely new
kind of existence. Okay, So

1174
01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:04.119
what are the implications of that then, because you're sort of mentioning that it

1175
01:21:04.159 --> 01:21:09.880
is it's not just human body anymore. It's this deified, different kind of

1176
01:21:09.880 --> 01:21:13.399
body. What are the implications of
that difference. Well, the implications are,

1177
01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:16.920
first of all, that Jesus came
from heaven and was Although were born

1178
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:23.399
of a woman and therefore had earthly
substance in humanity, his true nature was

1179
01:21:23.439 --> 01:21:26.880
actually divine because he went back to
the Father. As he said to his

1180
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:30.119
disciples, I am returning to my
Father to prepare a place for you.

1181
01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:34.640
And the only implication is that as
a Christian, my belief is that I

1182
01:21:34.720 --> 01:21:40.479
am both simultaneously now and at some
point in the future. And do you

1183
01:21:40.600 --> 01:21:43.640
very careful my words to you,
because we live in such a demathologized age

1184
01:21:43.680 --> 01:21:46.479
that if I say things like go
to heaven, it suggests this sort of

1185
01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:50.880
odd place somewhere that I'm going to
go to on our diet. But I

1186
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:55.760
more think of it in terms of
my whole self, My whole human nature

1187
01:21:56.039 --> 01:22:00.399
has been resurrected by accepting Christ as
the resurrect humans, so that I will

1188
01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:04.560
then rise with him. So it's
kind of a primordial, traditional sort of

1189
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:10.119
mythological I don't know of abjectives to
use, really, but that sounds very

1190
01:22:10.279 --> 01:22:15.800
that sounds very vague, and it
sounds like almost well, it's it's kind

1191
01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:18.199
of true. I mean, you
know, it really doesn't give us any

1192
01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:21.760
answers. In fact, it departs
from what we've been presented in the Bible

1193
01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:27.800
so much that it leaves it so
open for interpretation, because that's what you

1194
01:22:27.840 --> 01:22:30.239
would need to do in order to
make it work. Right. We have

1195
01:22:30.359 --> 01:22:33.600
already seen how you know, the
Bible is wrong in so many ways.

1196
01:22:33.600 --> 01:22:38.279
You know. Let's take, for
example, when Jesus was talking about going

1197
01:22:38.319 --> 01:22:43.039
out and spreading the word right,
so he said, surely not a generation

1198
01:22:43.159 --> 01:22:48.239
will pass in Israel before the Second
Coming. He also said that you should

1199
01:22:48.279 --> 01:22:54.439
go out and try and spread the
word to all of the suburbs of Israel

1200
01:22:54.479 --> 01:22:57.880
if you will. But you will, you won't have time to reach the

1201
01:22:57.920 --> 01:23:01.199
wall because the Second Coming will surely
come before where you get to finish that.

1202
01:23:01.399 --> 01:23:05.119
I mean, we've seen that that's
not true, right. You know,

1203
01:23:05.279 --> 01:23:10.399
we know now that Moses probably didn't
wander in the desert for forty years

1204
01:23:10.439 --> 01:23:15.000
because it only takes like six days
to walk the whole across the whole desert.

1205
01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:19.079
We have technology that allows us to
measure that. But hold on,

1206
01:23:19.119 --> 01:23:23.000
hold on, let me, let
me just explain. So as we see

1207
01:23:23.359 --> 01:23:27.399
these stories fall apart, we have
to kind of come up with these new

1208
01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:30.439
inventions, these new descriptions, right, And I think that's what you're doing

1209
01:23:30.439 --> 01:23:32.640
a little bit. And I don't
think that you're the first one. You

1210
01:23:32.640 --> 01:23:36.000
know, there are a lot of
people that reinvent the message of God because

1211
01:23:36.359 --> 01:23:41.239
it's really doesn't comport with reality.
I mean, heck, how many sects

1212
01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:44.439
of Christianity do we have? I
don't know, I'm gonna throw a wild

1213
01:23:44.479 --> 01:23:45.960
number. I don't know, two
hundred. I mean it is probably two

1214
01:23:46.039 --> 01:23:51.359
hundred. And then then there are, let's not forget religions that splinter off

1215
01:23:51.359 --> 01:23:56.359
of each other. I've said it
many times. You know, Christianity is

1216
01:23:56.800 --> 01:23:59.520
not all that different from other religions. You know, who else was half

1217
01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:02.479
human and have to find Heracles and
he was around I don't know, five

1218
01:24:02.520 --> 01:24:06.760
to seven hundred years prior to Jesus, so there's an influence that could have

1219
01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:11.159
taken place there, you know,
and somebody probably came up with Jesus to

1220
01:24:11.279 --> 01:24:16.680
explain, explain this half, this
this demi god lifestyle or this demigod's story,

1221
01:24:17.079 --> 01:24:19.840
because the other one didn't work anymore. And here you are following in

1222
01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:25.720
those footsteps. That's my take on
that. So what are your thoughts there?

1223
01:24:26.279 --> 01:24:30.000
Well, I'm kind of with Thois
on this one. This idea of

1224
01:24:30.039 --> 01:24:33.840
the sort of primordial idea of resurrection, that it's a universal tim that pretty

1225
01:24:33.880 --> 01:24:36.680
much everybody in the world kind of
had the concept of. I mean even

1226
01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:43.079
in Hinduism, the idea of the
supreme personality of godhead, the notion that

1227
01:24:43.359 --> 01:24:46.439
there is something other than oursel.
I think it's part of the human psyche,

1228
01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:50.520
and the reason we have all these
global religions is because we have different

1229
01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:56.079
ways of expressing that. And as
a Christian in a sense, I too

1230
01:24:56.359 --> 01:24:59.640
too obviously could have been brought up
with it. And I don't deny Richard

1231
01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:02.079
talks, So forgive me, forgive
me, I just want to I just

1232
01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:05.479
need a comment on that point.
Did you choose Christianity. Oh yeah,

1233
01:25:05.479 --> 01:25:09.199
absolutely you did. So you just
said you were brought up with it.

1234
01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:11.359
Yeah. What I mean is I've
brought up with it, so I know,

1235
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:14.399
I know that the knowledge of Christianity. But I went away. So

1236
01:25:14.960 --> 01:25:17.640
were you born from Christian parents in
a Christian country? Yeah? I was,

1237
01:25:17.760 --> 01:25:20.960
Well, how convenient you know,
I mean from the ages of Well,

1238
01:25:21.000 --> 01:25:24.199
I was just when you were Jimmy, can you can you can you

1239
01:25:24.279 --> 01:25:26.359
let me finish what I was going
to say? All right, you're right,

1240
01:25:26.600 --> 01:25:29.199
you're right, you're right, go
ahead. Yeah, I understand Awkins's

1241
01:25:29.239 --> 01:25:30.680
point. You know that if you're
born in India, you're probably going to

1242
01:25:30.680 --> 01:25:35.159
be a Hindu. If you're born
in Arabia, you're probably going to be

1243
01:25:35.159 --> 01:25:39.159
a Muslim. If you're born in
Checkas of actually you might be an ode

1244
01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:41.640
list if you're born up in Norway. You know. I got yeah,

1245
01:25:41.640 --> 01:25:44.560
I get that point. I get
that you said that. What what doalks

1246
01:25:44.600 --> 01:25:46.720
forget is that people have their own
minds when they reach eighteen years old.

1247
01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:50.000
And I think that if you're going
to send somebody out to the ocean,

1248
01:25:50.279 --> 01:25:53.560
you don't let them go out there
with nothing. You give them a map.

1249
01:25:53.680 --> 01:25:56.840
Now, having looked at that map. They can then decide that they

1250
01:25:56.840 --> 01:25:59.039
want to follow it or not.
They can still reject it. You know,

1251
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:00.279
we get people who think you're it's
flat. You know, they've been

1252
01:26:00.319 --> 01:26:04.560
brought up with the global Earth.
Oh no, I think it's flat.

1253
01:26:04.720 --> 01:26:08.520
I'm sorry, Michael, But you
know what, it's not that easy to

1254
01:26:08.560 --> 01:26:12.520
reject. It's not that easy when
you're eighteen, you're still very much dependent

1255
01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.119
on your family. You don't want
to be looked at as an outcast.

1256
01:26:15.159 --> 01:26:18.880
You might need them financially, right. You are probably raised in a society

1257
01:26:18.960 --> 01:26:24.159
that would consider you different if you
decided to be, you know, an

1258
01:26:24.199 --> 01:26:27.560
atheist or something else. I deal
with that. I'm forty one years old,

1259
01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.680
and I deal with being the other
in my own family, you know.

1260
01:26:31.079 --> 01:26:35.960
And it's just at some point I
decided I wanted to sever the things

1261
01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:39.600
that I had been given before I
was sent out on the ocean, because

1262
01:26:39.640 --> 01:26:42.359
they didn't make sense to me.
But you know what, the one thing

1263
01:26:42.399 --> 01:26:45.319
that I was given, I was
given because my parents got it from their

1264
01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:49.520
parents, and so on and so
forth for probably a thousand years, who

1265
01:26:49.560 --> 01:26:53.840
knows, who knows how far it
goes back. But the point is I

1266
01:26:53.880 --> 01:26:57.479
looked at these people that were giving
me food and security, and you know,

1267
01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.399
I'm sure you've heard this argument.
They were giving me, gave me

1268
01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:02.520
shelter. They were big, they
were old, you know, so I

1269
01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:05.600
knew that they had done something right
in life. Plus they were giving me

1270
01:27:05.640 --> 01:27:10.720
everything I needed. What they're saying
must be correct. And that's how you

1271
01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:15.359
end up with this idea that Yep, Christianity, Christianity is the way to

1272
01:27:15.359 --> 01:27:18.880
go. And I think did we
lose Did we lose John? Or John?

1273
01:27:18.960 --> 01:27:21.479
You still with us? All right? So I think we lost John.

1274
01:27:21.520 --> 01:27:24.960
I don't know what happened here.
I knew he was calling from from

1275
01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:28.159
over the pond. And you know, Sophie, I'm sorry if I took

1276
01:27:28.199 --> 01:27:31.239
that and like, kind of that's
okay. I wanted to get back to

1277
01:27:31.279 --> 01:27:34.319
you, so so sorry you were
you were like you had some thoughts and

1278
01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:40.319
please share simply that we can say
that we have these independent minds, and

1279
01:27:40.359 --> 01:27:44.000
to some degree it's true we do
at every age. I've never met a

1280
01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:47.039
toddler who doesn't seem like an extremely
independent person in their own way. But

1281
01:27:47.560 --> 01:27:53.960
we are formed to such a great
degree by the cultures and the mentalities around

1282
01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:59.880
us that to change our minds about
something as vital and organizing in our life

1283
01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:04.840
religion, we have to put ourselves
into a mindset that our brains genuinely have

1284
01:28:04.960 --> 01:28:09.880
not learned how to operate within.
So even when I was I was a

1285
01:28:09.880 --> 01:28:13.159
critical thinker, when I was a
Christian, I wasn't somehow dumber than I

1286
01:28:13.239 --> 01:28:16.520
am now. But the perspectives that
I had and the arguments that I knew

1287
01:28:16.720 --> 01:28:20.920
and knew how to make those were
all from within a Christian context. So

1288
01:28:21.359 --> 01:28:28.359
unless I was exposed to entirely new
ways of thinking, I would not have

1289
01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:31.880
been able to question those with a
fully independent mind. And some people may

1290
01:28:31.960 --> 01:28:35.640
argue that I currently don't have an
independent mind because I became an atheist and

1291
01:28:35.720 --> 01:28:41.840
so you know, the devil and
all that. But I remember trying so

1292
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:45.079
hard to make this all make sense
and applying every ounce of logic I could.

1293
01:28:45.119 --> 01:28:48.279
I read all the C. S. Lewis just like John was just

1294
01:28:48.359 --> 01:28:51.399
quoting, and as soon as I
was looking at it in a different light

1295
01:28:51.800 --> 01:28:58.000
without already believing that this was true, it became untenable. That was the

1296
01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:00.920
first time I really looked at it
independently. So we can say we have

1297
01:29:00.920 --> 01:29:03.680
independent minds but context determines a lot
of how we think of things. I'm

1298
01:29:03.720 --> 01:29:08.479
an American, I'm a woman,
I'm white. All of those things inform

1299
01:29:08.760 --> 01:29:11.359
how I look at the world.
Oh yeah, very well said, I

1300
01:29:11.399 --> 01:29:13.520
have nothing to add to that.
I thought that was great, And you

1301
01:29:13.560 --> 01:29:17.840
know what I really liked. I
really liked John's call. So thank you

1302
01:29:17.920 --> 01:29:21.439
John for calling in. Whatever happened
there, if you got dropped, I

1303
01:29:21.479 --> 01:29:25.560
know it was a long distance call, so please call in again. And

1304
01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:28.680
uh, let's maybe maybe you'll have
a better conversation with somebody else. I

1305
01:29:28.720 --> 01:29:31.199
don't know. Maybe I was kept
stepping on your toes there, but I

1306
01:29:31.239 --> 01:29:34.920
just want to say that I really
did appreciate that. So to all of

1307
01:29:34.920 --> 01:29:39.640
our callers today, those were great, you know. And and to Michael,

1308
01:29:39.640 --> 01:29:43.439
who I called Matthew several times,
I apologize again. And to Michael

1309
01:29:43.479 --> 01:29:45.840
who called in but we had to
let him go. Uh, you know,

1310
01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:48.800
give give us a call back and
next time, maybe pay attention.

1311
01:29:49.439 --> 01:29:53.680
But what what I want to?
Go ahead, Sophie, you wanted to

1312
01:29:53.680 --> 01:29:58.680
say something? Oh no, I
thought you were all right. Cool.

1313
01:29:58.720 --> 01:30:01.039
So we had two super chats coming. Kelly Laughlin, a member of two

1314
01:30:01.119 --> 01:30:05.159
years, says he's giving two dollars, one for each of Jimmy's boobs,

1315
01:30:05.239 --> 01:30:09.159
which is fucked up. Man.
I'm working on my summer body, all

1316
01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:12.520
right, so stop, you know, don't draw attention to the parts of

1317
01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:15.800
my body. I'm not so proud
of. Thanks Kelly, I will see

1318
01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:18.840
you at the after show. And
Miranda Rensberger, a member of two months

1319
01:30:18.880 --> 01:30:23.720
five dollars, a moderator asked for
someone to say boobs in a super chat.

1320
01:30:23.760 --> 01:30:27.720
Who am I to refuse an instruction
from a mod Miranda, We could

1321
01:30:27.760 --> 01:30:30.119
always count on you. Thank you
so much. Hey, I love what

1322
01:30:30.199 --> 01:30:33.640
I've started. Yeah, yeah,
hey, this was a you know,

1323
01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:41.000
this was a blessing in disguise,
my get us money then great. Yeah,

1324
01:30:41.159 --> 01:30:46.199
you're like kind of a virtual stripper
or something, you know. Yeah,

1325
01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:48.840
you know, we have a few
minutes, Like we're over a few

1326
01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:53.640
minutes, but I want to do
something. So our crew puts together these

1327
01:30:53.920 --> 01:30:57.239
this optional content, and I want
to go through like just at least a

1328
01:30:57.279 --> 01:31:00.880
couple of screenshots. So Sophia,
we're going to go through screenshot number two.

1329
01:31:01.359 --> 01:31:05.279
We're going to I'm gonna ask the
crew to bring up screenshot number two

1330
01:31:05.319 --> 01:31:10.279
so we can see that this is
you. Sophia. Such a flattering picture.

1331
01:31:11.680 --> 01:31:13.880
Ooh, I like the quote,
don't make me lesser than a man.

1332
01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:16.359
I sound so sassy. Let's see, now we have fifty percent to

1333
01:31:16.399 --> 01:31:24.279
forest rates and gender confusion. Patriarchy
creates families and society. Feminism destroys both.

1334
01:31:24.520 --> 01:31:30.279
Okay, so let's talk about happiness
within families that have more egalitarian marriages.

1335
01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:33.600
They're more likely to last, and
everyone's reports to be happier people.

1336
01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:38.239
So I don't know, feminism seems
like it shores up marriage. They're pretty

1337
01:31:38.239 --> 01:31:44.439
well unless you go back to the
early stages of second wave feminism in which

1338
01:31:44.439 --> 01:31:46.960
women weren't allowed to have bank accounts. So you're right. Patriarchy kind of

1339
01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:49.800
does show up the family there,
but it's just because it traps women and

1340
01:31:49.840 --> 01:31:56.359
they can't leave. So technical point. I guess this, dude. I

1341
01:31:56.399 --> 01:32:00.479
also want to mention the idea of
gender confusion. So when I think about

1342
01:32:00.479 --> 01:32:04.399
my own gender, just using myself
as an example, I am a woman,

1343
01:32:04.720 --> 01:32:09.960
but I am considered in many of
my traits incredibly masculine. I'm aggressive,

1344
01:32:10.119 --> 01:32:14.079
I'm loud, I tend to loll
about all over the place, so

1345
01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:18.640
like man, spreading is my thing. I also present as hyperfeminine a lot

1346
01:32:18.680 --> 01:32:23.439
of the time physically, but then
my personality some people feel doesn't match that.

1347
01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:25.880
That was a huge point of tension
within the Church of who I was

1348
01:32:25.920 --> 01:32:29.880
allowed to be and who I wasn't, so gender confusion I felt a lot

1349
01:32:29.960 --> 01:32:32.079
more when I was part of the
church, when I was under a more

1350
01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:38.359
patriarchal standpoint, because I was being
told that I was by dictative of God

1351
01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:43.439
one way, when in actuality I
simply wasn't. I don't have the character

1352
01:32:43.760 --> 01:32:46.520
that the Bible ascribes to women,
So that was a lot of gender confusion

1353
01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:50.439
for me. And now that I
don't have those bounds, I'm able to

1354
01:32:50.479 --> 01:32:57.039
fully be myself quite a bit more
and I feel less confused gender wise.

1355
01:32:57.359 --> 01:33:01.079
I'm sure this person is referring to
what they would view as probably like trans

1356
01:33:01.119 --> 01:33:05.680
issues, but I think that we
can start with talking about gender way before

1357
01:33:05.720 --> 01:33:11.199
that and just how it doesn't really
fit anyone that well. And working as

1358
01:33:11.199 --> 01:33:15.239
a counselor, and I think you
see a lot of men who their basic

1359
01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:19.720
issues come from being told that they're
supposed to be a particular way, that

1360
01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:24.960
they can't be vulnerable, that they
can't need help. And when we're able

1361
01:33:24.960 --> 01:33:27.239
to break out of patriarchy. Those
men are able to get the help that

1362
01:33:27.279 --> 01:33:30.279
they need and even rely on other
men and talk about issues in their lives

1363
01:33:30.279 --> 01:33:35.079
with them. I would argue that
patriarchy has caused more gender confusion for them

1364
01:33:35.319 --> 01:33:40.640
because it's telling them to cut off
parts of their humanity than being free from

1365
01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:43.319
it. So that's my rant about
that. Per excellent. No, that's

1366
01:33:43.359 --> 01:33:48.680
great. I'm glad that that generated
such a lively response. And I would

1367
01:33:48.720 --> 01:33:54.000
to say to this person, you
know, feminism destroying the family. I

1368
01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:59.840
mean, why don't you try being
committed to a partner who has equal expectation,

1369
01:34:00.239 --> 01:34:02.760
equal rights in the household as you. I mean, my wife,

1370
01:34:03.399 --> 01:34:09.720
My wife is very much an equal
partner and such a great outstanding mother,

1371
01:34:09.880 --> 01:34:13.399
a hard worker, she's a nursing
student, she works as a nursing assistant.

1372
01:34:13.439 --> 01:34:15.600
I mean, she works hard to
you know, she is busting her

1373
01:34:15.680 --> 01:34:19.399
butt. And honestly, I couldn't
feel better. I want to cook dinner,

1374
01:34:19.560 --> 01:34:24.920
you know, And I couldn't feel
better about being in a household,

1375
01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:29.479
in a family where my wife sets
a positive example for what my daughter should

1376
01:34:29.520 --> 01:34:32.560
be someday, but also how my
son should view women. And so I

1377
01:34:32.600 --> 01:34:36.479
think that I'm very lucky in that
respect. I'm gonna do one. Go

1378
01:34:36.479 --> 01:34:40.600
ahead, I want you to do
yours. And then I've been wanting to

1379
01:34:40.600 --> 01:34:43.840
get to screenshat number eight for some
time for like, yeah, okay,

1380
01:34:44.199 --> 01:34:45.479
but do your thing first. Yeah, I'm gonna do one for me.

1381
01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:48.640
So I'm gonna go to number one. And I love this one. I

1382
01:34:48.680 --> 01:34:56.600
love this one because it says I
was talking about here the story of Abraham

1383
01:34:57.039 --> 01:35:01.600
forcing his wife's slave Hagar to have
sex with him in Bearished Children. And

1384
01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:06.159
the person in the comments wrote this
guy accuses Christians of not reading the Bible.

1385
01:35:06.279 --> 01:35:10.399
He doesn't either, which is why
he reads this and says this.

1386
01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:15.039
He knows nothing for this screenshot.
I literally had the Bible open and read

1387
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:17.960
it directly from the Bible. This
was the best response I could have to

1388
01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:21.720
a screenshot. But yeah, it's
amazing. Let's move to number eight.

1389
01:35:21.880 --> 01:35:26.399
Let's go to eight. Okay,
So number eight says, and I just

1390
01:35:26.479 --> 01:35:29.960
I love it so much. I'm
glad she takes this attitude. Can't wait

1391
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.359
for her to tell her kids that
Christmas is canceled because she doesn't believe in

1392
01:35:32.359 --> 01:35:36.560
an imaginary sky daddy. It's when
I apparently mocked God by calling him sky

1393
01:35:36.680 --> 01:35:42.479
Daddy. Okay, so, first
of all, the premise of this comment

1394
01:35:42.720 --> 01:35:45.319
is that my children, who are
now in utero and not yet two years

1395
01:35:45.319 --> 01:35:49.159
old, I will introduce them to
the concept of Christmas and then take it

1396
01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:56.800
away as like a lesson, which
is a bizarre premise anyway. And then

1397
01:35:57.199 --> 01:36:00.760
also, do we know why we
have Christmas in the middle of winter?

1398
01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:03.640
It's sure as hell, isn't because
that's when the Christians decided Jesus was born.

1399
01:36:03.880 --> 01:36:09.119
It's because that's when Yule was,
which was a pagan holiday in Europe,

1400
01:36:09.520 --> 01:36:13.439
and when people were Christianizing the rest
of Europe, they were like,

1401
01:36:13.479 --> 01:36:15.199
well, we can't get rid of
all of their holidays. We have to

1402
01:36:15.279 --> 01:36:19.920
let them have their imaginary sky Daddy
holidays. So we're going to uh just

1403
01:36:20.039 --> 01:36:25.000
integrate that and have Christmas be part
of that. Do you think Santa Claus

1404
01:36:25.039 --> 01:36:30.079
was in the Bible? Like,
there's so many aspects of Christmas and of

1405
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:34.279
the scenario this person has in their
head that I find fascinating. I think

1406
01:36:34.680 --> 01:36:40.039
they inadvertently admitted that Santa Claus is
the real sky Daddy. Like that's what

1407
01:36:40.159 --> 01:36:43.840
I heard from that comment. That's
what I heard God just has a naughty

1408
01:36:43.880 --> 01:36:49.319
and icelist, at least I don't
know which one I'm on. Yeah,

1409
01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:55.199
I just I love that for so
many reasons. Yeah, and honestly,

1410
01:36:55.279 --> 01:36:59.520
like my son right now is also
the only grandchild on both sides, so

1411
01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:03.119
he doesn't you imagine your skuy doddies
he has par Sure. Yeah, that

1412
01:37:03.239 --> 01:37:06.000
was great. I'm glad we got
to some of these. Yeah, crew,

1413
01:37:06.119 --> 01:37:10.279
thank you so much for like taking
your time to put these together and

1414
01:37:10.359 --> 01:37:14.119
definitely keep them coming. Remember,
everybody, the prompt for this week,

1415
01:37:14.279 --> 01:37:17.199
what is God's idea of a perfect
woman? Replying in the comments, Tune

1416
01:37:17.239 --> 01:37:20.079
in at the beginning of next week's
show and we will read the top three

1417
01:37:20.199 --> 01:37:24.920
answers. With that, Sophia,
I have to say, it's time for

1418
01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:28.279
some lover rings. Who are you
throwing your lover rings too? I'm sending

1419
01:37:28.319 --> 01:37:31.520
mind to my wife Boom, Yeah, my partner, I should say.

1420
01:37:32.039 --> 01:37:35.600
I'm gonna say for me, it's
gonna be the people like that, like

1421
01:37:35.680 --> 01:37:40.520
Michael, who kind of reminded me
of myself. They're coming into this trying

1422
01:37:40.560 --> 01:37:43.039
to make this all make sense,
and I hope they're best for you.

1423
01:37:43.199 --> 01:37:45.439
Awesome, awesome, Yeah, thank
you again to all of our callers.

1424
01:37:45.479 --> 01:37:48.840
Remember, Sophia and I are going
to jump over to ACA Discord. That's

1425
01:37:48.880 --> 01:37:55.880
tiny dot CC forward slash ac D
Discord, that's a c D discord,

1426
01:37:56.199 --> 01:38:00.600
and we'll be over there having the
after show. And if you do not

1427
01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:03.600
believe, well then this is your
community and we appreciate you being here.

1428
01:38:03.720 --> 01:38:06.800
But if you are a believer,
we do not hate you. We're just

1429
01:38:06.840 --> 01:38:33.560
not convinced. We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted live Friday at

1430
01:38:33.600 --> 01:38:40.319
seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot
CC slash y t tw and call into

1431
01:38:40.319 --> 01:38:45.199
the show at five one two nine
four two, or connect to the show

1432
01:38:45.359 --> 01:38:49.199
online at tiny dot CC slash call
tw