WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:14.839 This podcast contains intense subject matter. Listener discretion is advised. On Thursday, 2 00:00:14.919 --> 00:00:20.320 September ninth, nineteen seventy six, at approximately three pm, Detective Spears and 3 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:25.039 myself went to the Ralph Auto residence to request that he Ralph Otto take a 4 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:32.280 polygraph examination administered by Al John's state investigator. Otto indicated that he would not 5 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:37.439 take a polygraph examination under any circumstances and that it would be fruitless. In 6 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:42.200 an attempt to get him to do so, Otto asked, are you accusing 7 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:47.679 me of murdering my wife? I advised him on the contrary, I just 8 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:54.079 wanted to know if he knew of anything of her disappearance. Otto indicated and 9 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:57.880 put his finger on my chest and said, if you think it, you're 10 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:02.560 going to have to prove it against me. I again asked Otto if he 11 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.359 had anything to do with the disappearance of his wife, and he advised that 12 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:11.640 he did not. I suggested that he'd take the polygraph examination to show the 13 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:32.519 truthfulness of his statements, and he again advised he would not. From the 14 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:46.239 pages of the reporter's notebook, this is still season two. I'm your host, 15 00:01:46.640 --> 00:02:24.479 Gary Anderson. In the last episode, we talked about Patricia Otto's disappearance 16 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:29.960 late in the evening of August thirty first or early in the morning of September 17 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:36.719 first, nineteen seventy six. On September second, the day after Ralph told 18 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:39.800 everyone that his wife had left him, Ralph started telling people that he didn't 19 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:44.680 want Patty to come back. He said he had changed the locks on the 20 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:49.360 house and on the white Chevy station wagon Patty normally drove in case she ever 21 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.240 tried to return. We're going to spend quite a bit of time in this 22 00:02:53.280 --> 00:03:00.159 episode delving into Ralph and Patty Otto's personalities, their marriage, and their friendships. 23 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:06.319 All of these things strongly influenced the chain of events leading up to and 24 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:20.919 following Patty's disappearance. So let's start with Ralph. Ralph Otto was born in 25 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.199 nineteen thirty four in the little town of Craigmont, Idaho. An old cowboy 26 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:30.960 went riding out one dark and windy day. Like most newborns, Ralph curled 27 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:37.800 his tiny fingers at the shock of his new, unfamiliar surroundings, but there 28 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:43.360 was something different about the way he formed his fists. Ralph was already swinging 29 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.840 for a fight. The second oldest of four kids. Ralph was raised in 30 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:53.240 a thrifty household by parents who had eloped during the Great Depression and spent most 31 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:59.599 of their years barely scraping by. But Ralph had no intention of settling for 32 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.039 a mere portion from life. From a young age, Ralph learned to be 33 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:08.919 crafty. He would charm, cheat and steal to get what he wanted, 34 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:12.479 and would bare knuckle his way out of the situation if he got caught. 35 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:17.560 This is Ralph's youngest daughter describing him. But he was small. He was 36 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:24.079 a small man, and I've heard from his friends that they think that had 37 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.639 something to do with why he was so aggressive with everyone. He wanted to 38 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:29.720 pick fights. You want to fight with me, You want to fight with 39 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:31.480 me, And I'm like, I've never been in a physical fight in my 40 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:36.399 life. I can't imagine fighting with my friends that you love and ador why 41 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:40.959 is he picking fights with them? They would just say he'd drink his whiskey 42 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:46.199 and he'd want to fight everybody. Sometimes Ralph wanted something simply because they belonged 43 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:50.040 to someone else. He didn't always want to keep it, he just didn't 44 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:57.560 want anyone else to have it. Provoking fury was a sport for Ralph. 45 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:01.480 In early August of twenty twenty one, Christine Hughes, Karen Shaw Anderson and 46 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:05.399 I sat down with Ralph's sister in law, Dolores, who goes by Dodie, 47 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:24.360 Thank you man. She was married to Ralph's younger brother Ray. My 48 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:31.680 aunt white Gary Anderson, he's the sound man. We chatted with Dodie at 49 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:38.279 our kitchen table. So Ralph was your brother in law, right right? 50 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:44.639 Tell us about the relationship between you and Ray and Ralph and Patty. What 51 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:49.959 kind there was none? Ralph absolutely hated my husband. He was extremely jealous 52 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:56.839 of me. Dodie told us a story that illustrated the brother's relationship. In 53 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.360 high school, Ray had saved enough money working at a grocery store to buy 54 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.879 himself a blue letterman's jacket. And he came home for work one time, 55 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:10.160 and here's Ralph in his garage and you're at the car. All this screece 56 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:14.399 was place cold on and Ray ask him, what are you doing? Were 57 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:15.639 in my coat? And he thought it and just beat the holy heck out 58 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:20.439 of him, and rain ever lifted a hand to him. Never Ralph and 59 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:27.120 Ray's father, Arthur Otto folks called him Art worked for the Highway Department before 60 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.959 landing a job at the Potlatch lumbermill. Arthur died of a heart attack when 61 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:36.519 he was thirty nine, two months before Ralph's seventeenth birthday. At the time, 62 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.839 Ralph's older brother Jerry, had recently moved out, so Ralph's mother, 63 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:46.720 Marjorie had three children at home to care for on her own. This is 64 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:53.720 Ralph's sister Marcy talking. My father died young, and some of the kids 65 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.959 wanted to blame one of the other kids. So Ralph and I were at 66 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:05.519 odds speak because I was a teenager at that certain point, and I'd ran 67 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:13.759 away from home only a month before my dad died, and that was bad, 68 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:17.360 you know. It was all put on me, and those were the 69 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:24.759 bad times at that point in my life. Just a few months after Ralph's 70 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:30.399 high school graduation in nineteen fifty two, he got married. He was eighteen, 71 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.480 and his bride lied about her age on their marriage license. Joy would 72 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:39.920 still be fourteen for another month and a half. She had claimed to be 73 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:46.000 sixteen. Ralph and Joy were married only a year when Ralph's brother Jerry, 74 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.680 who was also married and now the father of a baby girl, drowned at 75 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:55.639 a family outing while saving his wife and mother who were swimming in the Clearwater 76 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:03.199 River. Jerry was only twenty years old. By all accounts, the tragedy 77 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:09.920 hardened Ralph even more. This is Marcy again. Ralph had a tendency to 78 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:20.079 leave a bad past behind him, and he could be mouthy and you just 79 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.720 want it, you know, get him out of the way. But from 80 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:31.159 the time we were just young children, my younger brother and I were real 81 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:37.559 close, but nobody could be real close to Ralph. Marcy talked to us 82 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:45.200 about a time Ralph threw an axe adder. Well, he threw axe across 83 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:52.519 the crick and hit me in the head, and the parents thought that they 84 00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:58.639 were going to lose me. But I never ever blamed Ralph because it's you 85 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:05.519 know, he made a mistake. As a family all stuck together. My 86 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:13.440 dad wouldn't let anyone blame Ralph. Those who weren't related to Ralph by blood 87 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:18.120 had a harder time for giving his temper. Joy divorced him in nineteen sixty 88 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.559 five, but just a few months after their divorce was finalized, they remarried 89 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:30.039 each other. Then a few months after that they divorced again. Idaho hadn't 90 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.600 yet passed a no fault divorce law, so blame had to be assigned to 91 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:37.720 one or both of the spouses in order for a judge to grant a divorce. 92 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:45.320 In both cases, Joy sued Ralph for the divorce, citing extreme cruelty 93 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.600 as the cause. We were going to interview Joy for this podcast, but 94 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:54.159 she changed her mind at the last minute. We do know that she and 95 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:00.360 Ralph went their separate ways after the second divorce. They had no children together. 96 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:07.480 By then, Ralph had established himself in Lewiston as a skilled but shifty 97 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:11.799 auto mechanic. This is Ralph's sister in law Dooty again. And he was 98 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.559 a correct and guarantee you he had his good sides that most of them are 99 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.960 bad. He'd worked on somebody's car. He'd jack up the prizes so bad 100 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.519 on their repaired job that they couldn't afford to pay for it. Udi, 101 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:30.120 and I'm owning the car. And that's just He always says, what is 102 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.080 mine is mine, is what is yours is mine? That was that was 103 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:39.320 his opinion. He lied, He'd tell lies about his brother. Ralph was 104 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:45.200 always working on schemes to make more money. He and a friend bought a 105 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:50.159 small island not far from Lewiston on the Clearwater River. Their plan was to 106 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.879 turn rock on the island into gravel. Another friend, who owned a rock 107 00:10:54.919 --> 00:11:00.720 crushing company, brought in equipment for the job, but river flooding halted the 108 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:05.519 process after only a day and a half. Work didn't resume for months, 109 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:11.440 and then only restarted briefly. Ralph ordered an end to the rock crushing and 110 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:16.080 only repaid his friend, the equipment operator, a portion of what was due. 111 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.200 Ralph was sued for breach of contract. It was the end of the 112 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:26.480 friendship, but not the last word for Ralph. Nor was the sale of 113 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.360 gravel Ralph's only hope of income. He also rented out and sold miscellaneous heavy 114 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:37.720 equipment, allowing him to earn highway contracts to help clear trees and debris from 115 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.960 mountain roads covered by landslides. He was doing more than getting by for at 116 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:48.200 least two years. He brought in the equivalent of a six figure salary in 117 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:56.840 today's dollars. He used those earnings to buy his parents house from his mother, 118 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.960 who had since remarried, and he turned what was a modest farmhouse into 119 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:07.639 a bachelor pad complete with red shag carpet, a console's stereo, a player 120 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.559 piano near the entryway, and an oversized painting of a nude woman on another 121 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:18.519 wall. Some of the upgrades Ralph paid for, but his family told us 122 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.320 that a lot of the materials for the renovations were stolen from construction sites around 123 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.399 town. Rumors also abounded that Ralph got revenge on the man who sued him 124 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:41.720 by seducing that man's sister. In the years after his divorce from Joy, 125 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:48.080 Ralph went on the prowl, pumping coins into jukeboxes at the local bars, 126 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:52.639 lavishing women with gifts, and throwing gossip worthy soarets at his two thousand square 127 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:58.440 foot home. I'd get it one piece of the time and it wouldn't coust 128 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:03.639 me a time. You lodge me when I come through your pown. I'm 129 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:09.679 gonna ride around and style. I'm gonna drive everybody while I have the only 130 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:16.440 one. Ralph was on the lookout for a very specific type of woman. 131 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.240 He had a weakness for petite blonde with a slim build. Joey had fit 132 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:26.879 that mold perfectly. So did Bonnie Shopbell, who you heard about in the 133 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:33.080 last episode. Bonnie was a blue eyed, platinum haired beauty who had recently 134 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.279 left a bad relationship when she got involved with Ralph. This is Ralph's daughter 135 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:43.000 talking again. He had to have been very charming, and he was definitely 136 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.519 very good looking when he was younger. He was a good looking man, 137 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.279 and I just don't think he saw that man in the mirror. I think 138 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:56.120 he continued to see that strapping you know, high school stud five eight stud 139 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:00.919 and his brother Jerry is like six foot two and Ray taller and he I 140 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:05.120 think he feels inferior to them, So he's got to be stronger and tougher 141 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:11.039 physically than them because he's smaller than them. That would be my analysis. 142 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:16.600 Bonnie and her kids stayed with Ralph for a brief time in the late nineteen 143 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.159 sixties while she got back on her feet. From what she's told us, 144 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.720 it's clear that Ralph wanted to do more than help her. He paid a 145 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.919 teenage girl who lived up the street to watch her kids while he took Bonnie 146 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:35.360 out on the town. Bonnie told us that Ralph constantly referred to her as 147 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.360 his Bonnie, which made her uncomfortable, but Ralph was also generous with her. 148 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:45.519 He worked hard to impress her during their courtship, but Bonnie still wasn't 149 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:52.080 that interested. The teenage babysitter Ralph hired to watch Bonnie's kids, was interested, 150 00:14:52.120 --> 00:15:20.600 though she was Patricia Lee O'Malley soon to be Patty Otto. Jonathan remember 151 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.799 how younger mom was. She didn't get to. That's Patty's sister, Alice 152 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:30.639 Mills talking. As you listen in to this interview, you'll also hear Patty's 153 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.200 youngest daughter, and they'll refer to Marcy, Ralph's sister. I know when 154 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.840 she first would go down there, she baby set for Bonnie. Bonnie is 155 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.039 the one that was living with him, and that's where it started. She 156 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.200 put baby set, and then when she moved off, she just kept going 157 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.879 down and she's cleaning us house and runs errands and can That's what Marcia was 158 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:52.039 sam. She was cleaning in the house and she said, and that's it. 159 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:58.559 Yet it work, so apparently that's when because I remember when I found 160 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:03.080 out that they were having them, I didn't believe it. Vicky knew Patty 161 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:07.600 had told Vicky. I guess herself. Vicky is Patty's other sister. She 162 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.120 asked Alice to speak on her behalf for this podcast, and I said, 163 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:17.360 no, no, I did not believe it until she admitted it to These 164 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:22.039 are things. Back then, I'm thinking that my sister, No, she's 165 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:26.120 not that stupid. But now I find how many believed in what your dad 166 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:29.639 needs to say. And he would do this for her and say things. 167 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:40.639 And she's inexperienced. Yeah, yeah, and we were raised strict so and 168 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.480 it's a neighbor, you know, he's just a few houses down the street. 169 00:16:44.559 --> 00:17:03.159 Yeah, And I'm Patricia Lee Alley was born August fourth, nineteen fifty 170 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:07.880 two, in Lewiston, eleven days after Ralph had married his first wife Joy. 171 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:14.720 Patty's dad, Tom, was a Lewiston fire captain. Her mom, 172 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:18.160 Toots, worked at a bank and then got a job out at the lumber 173 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:25.559 mill. Patty had two sisters and a brother, Tom Junior. The three 174 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:30.279 girls were especially close. The three of us were born within three years. 175 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.480 Patty is only thirteen months older than me. Goodness, so we were cloths 176 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:41.200 growing up. I mean we always shared a bedroom and so one of us 177 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:45.440 gotten but we all got in trouble. There was that closeness a sister. 178 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:52.400 I mean, he grew up. We played dogs who played barbies and which 179 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.440 even though her and I were only thirteen months apart, she let me know 180 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:03.319 that she was my own sister. I had to obey. When we were 181 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.400 little kids. Growing up, we had a neighborhood but quite a few kids 182 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.880 in it, and we've been all of us, you know, back then 183 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.960 big as We had to stay on our block, but we could go around 184 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:19.599 in our block, and we had wagons and our bikes and we'd tie them 185 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:25.799 together and have wagon frames and m But we had We had a lot of 186 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:29.799 friends that we played with, and we did a lot with our other family 187 00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:36.319 and all get togethers. And that's probably why she said was always so we 188 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:41.319 raised family was really important. Patty was eighteen in nineteen seventy when she walked 189 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:47.720 down the aisle of Lewiston's Trinity Lutheran Church and pledged to be faithful to Ralph 190 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:53.359 forever. Ralph was thirty five at the time. They honeymooned in California and 191 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:59.440 Mexico. A year later. Ralph and Patty's first child, Natalie, was 192 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.640 born. Only two years after that, in November of nineteen seventy three, 193 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:10.359 Patty delivered the couple's youngest daughter, Dallas. In the next three years, 194 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:15.799 Ralph and Patty fought, separated, reconnected, and fought some more. As 195 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:21.599 you heard in the last episode, the longest separation between Ralph and Patty began 196 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:25.880 in the fall of nineteen seventy five. That's when she got a job to 197 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:30.279 help support her daughters and herself. No, I don't think she wanted to 198 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.160 work. I think she wanted to stay home, raise her kids, their 199 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.480 wife. I think the only time I said going to work is when they 200 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.119 separated. And then I think she went to business Scope because she knew sooner 201 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.119 or later she was going to have to support him, because I don't think 202 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:48.799 she kind of staying without. And then one night, while still separated from 203 00:19:48.880 --> 00:20:02.559 Ralph, Patty went to Van's Club. At the bar, she saw Randy 204 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:11.640 Benton playing guitar on stage with his band Moving Country. Well, I seed 205 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:12.720 her in there, so I went and talk to her. We've known each 206 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.640 other for a very long time. Patty took Randy back to the place where 207 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.640 she and her daughters were living. She told him that if Ralph showed up, 208 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:26.079 he'd have to leave. Randy later told police that when she said that, 209 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.119 he decided to leave right then and there. It wasn't the sort of 210 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.640 situation he wanted to get mixed up in. Less than a year later, 211 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:37.960 he learned that Patty had gone back to Ralph and now she was missing. 212 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:44.599 Police also told Randy that Ralph was threatening to kill him. They advised him 213 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.480 to leave town if he could. Yeah, the police, the people that 214 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.079 told me, Yeah, they were serious about it. Okay, did you 215 00:20:52.160 --> 00:21:00.039 leave town after that? No? Not right away. I started carrying a 216 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:06.880 pistol. They told me to, And so I started carrying a pistol for 217 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.079 a while until I could get And then shortly after that, well, in 218 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:18.279 that fall, I moved to Alaska. My brother came down. Somebody, 219 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.720 somebody told him that my family was trying to protect me, I think, 220 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:29.680 so I had to go to Alaska. So I have to ask, because 221 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:33.839 there have been so many rumors about what could have happened to Patty, and 222 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:40.279 some people believed that she went to Alaska or she went to Canada. Did 223 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:47.000 you ever see her again after she disappeared? No? No, no, 224 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:52.200 no, I did not. You may be wondering now, who told us 225 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:57.759 that Patty had gone to Alaska and Canada. It was Ralph's sister in law, 226 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:03.559 Dody, the woman Mary to his brother Ray. This is where the 227 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:10.720 rumors in theories start going in strange directions. Not long after Patty disappeared, 228 00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:15.039 Dodie and her husband hired a private investigator to try to find Patty to prove 229 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.440 that Ralph couldn't have killed her. They said they believed she was still alive. 230 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:26.000 We haven't seen any of the notes that private investigator Jack Prim gave to 231 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.680 the couple after he completed his work for them, but Dodie shared with us 232 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:36.480 pages and pages of notes she and Ray compiled during that time. Some of 233 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:40.519 the notes indicate what Prim told them in his report, and other notes were 234 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.359 related to Dodie's own amateur investigation. In her notes, Dodie said someone she 235 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.640 knew told her he overheard a truck driver say that he gave Patty a ride 236 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:55.680 to Alaska and he knew who she was with. Dodie also told us that 237 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.960 the PI gave them some shocking news. So we fally hired a private investigator, 238 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.440 and he'd worked on it for about two three days. This is Doatie 239 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:15.799 Talking's house and who told me that he found out that Patty was a high 240 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.519 classic call girl, that she had a sugar daddy and I said, what's 241 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:22.039 the sugar daddy? Had no idea what a sugar daddy was. She's into 242 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:27.920 drags, high proscyle girl and she had a sugar daddy, and I wouldn't 243 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.920 believe it. I said that that's not true, that's not patty. But 244 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:36.680 anyway, and along, to make a long story short, there's just evidence 245 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.279 to prove that that's exactly where she was. And we have a statement from 246 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:48.160 um this gentleman herey just passed away, Steve Ken, his wife Debbie Lowby, 247 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.400 and it's all in here is the one. We got the handwritten note 248 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:59.920 from the Statium that they had found her in Canada. A doctor had say 249 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:07.200 the information and he recognized her from a poster and she was Andrew drugs and 250 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:11.279 choosing to prostitution. And that's the last I know. It's so choosing Dawson 251 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:17.079 Creek, Canada, Dawson and I truly believe that she got wrapped up with 252 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:22.039 the Rong people and they took her out here and put her into human trafficking. 253 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.319 And where they put her from Dawson Creek, Canada, I have no 254 00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.039 idea. We were dubious, to say the least. Dodi's claims that Patty 255 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:34.759 was a prostitute. Sounded pretty far fetched, but we didn't want to overlook 256 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:40.960 anything, so we asked a few more people, including Ron Rody. Ron 257 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:45.640 babysat Natalie and Dallas not long before their mother disappeared. He was a teenager 258 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:49.880 then, and his dad had been a friend of Rolph. This is Ron. 259 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.640 He initially talked to my dad. They said they wanted to boy babysitter 260 00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:00.880 because they didn't trust girls, and so he initially out ahold of my dad 261 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:07.319 got me lined up to babysitting for him, and so yeah, he would 262 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.839 get a hold of me. I just lived to see balks down the street, 263 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:15.160 okay. And I never really felt We never really felt with Patty at 264 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.759 all. Okay. Do you remember about what year it was that you started 265 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:26.680 babysitting for them? God, I couldn't even tell you. Okay. Do 266 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:34.799 you remember how old the girls were? Dallas was just a little wing diaper. 267 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:41.599 She was probably too maybe at the most, Okay, Natalie was probably 268 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:47.960 five. I'm not sure what the age of difference was between them. Okay. 269 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.039 And so what were your impressions of the family of Ralph and Patty? 270 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:57.799 Did they get along well? He and I it was when I first started 271 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:03.599 babysitting for him. When I first met him, everything was great, it 272 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.799 seemed like, I mean, they were happy, perfect couple, and then 273 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:18.680 it spiraled downward pretty fast after maybe six months, and they got pretty pretty 274 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.359 bad at the end. I didn't see Daddy a lot. She was always 275 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:23.599 in the house. I was always dealing with Ralph. But you know, 276 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:33.039 just he became a her end us alcoholic. It was miserable. Yeah, 277 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.839 things things kind of spiraled out of control pretty fast. Now you you said 278 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:42.720 that things got pretty horrendous pretty fast with his drinking and stuff. Can you 279 00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:48.880 describe any of that to me? Well, I mean the whole story. 280 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:55.559 Daddy was a wild child. It's it's as simple as that. You know. 281 00:26:55.799 --> 00:27:02.480 Ralph was probably twice her age, and the rumors got around that she 282 00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:07.519 was having a pretty wild life outside of their marriage, and I'm sure it 283 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:15.480 was true. And then Ralph found out that she was working as a prostitute. 284 00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.599 There was a couple of police detectives in Lewiston, but it was common 285 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:25.039 knowledge that they were running a call girl ring out of the top floor of 286 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:32.359 the tap of Era hotel, and Paddy and Dwayne Eyler were kind of seeing 287 00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:37.079 each other, and then Ralph found out that she was working for them as 288 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.920 a prostitute. Dwayne Tyler was a police captain and was working with Tom Selene 289 00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:49.559 on the investigation into Patty's disappearance. Okay, so how often would she be 290 00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:53.079 working as a prostitute? Did you get an impression about that? All right? 291 00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:00.039 I have no idea. And I was always around during the day on 292 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:07.559 the cars I heard. Okay. I just remember Ralph one day coming out 293 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.640 to the shop. I mean, when when all that started happened, she 294 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.920 started running around and he knew about it. That's when he started drinking. 295 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:22.240 I think trying at Trader smooth it over, and his drinking just got out 296 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.519 of control that he was. I mean, he was drunk the first thing 297 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:30.920 in the morning all day and I don't know if that's that was his way 298 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:36.240 of dealing with it or what. But he came out to the shop one 299 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:40.920 day and it was just it scared me. I'd never seen him like that 300 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.599 before, and he was just hitting mad. He was telling me that he 301 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.440 found out. He said, how would you like to find out your wife's 302 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:55.960 a freaking prostitute? And he said, I just found that out and he 303 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.680 said, I'm gonna kill her. I'm gonna kill her, and it was 304 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.680 like a few days later she was gone. We wanted to dig more into 305 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.720 this prostitution rumor, since we had heard it from more than one person. 306 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:15.359 We did some online research, googling Lewiston, Idaho prostitution. As strange as 307 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:21.559 it was, the two seemed to be indelibly tied together, so we reached 308 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:26.640 out to an expert on Lewiston's history to learn more. It turns out that 309 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:32.000 Lewiston was actually once a hot spot for prostitution, but that was decades before 310 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:37.640 the time frame we're discussing. Here's historian Stephen Branton talking about it. Well, 311 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.319 I think I can speak to that pretty quickly. It wasn't an issue 312 00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:48.839 that prostitution had pretty well been stamped out in Lewison by the mid nineteen fifties. 313 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.319 It was an old problem that dated from the territorial days when the city 314 00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:03.880 was found into May eighteen sixty one and had gone through su pretty raucous days. 315 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.960 They were up to eighteen brothels here at one time, more brothels in 316 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:12.359 churches, I should say, But by the by the late nineteen fifties, 317 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.400 and I had moved here and was being educated here. At the time, 318 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.599 there was you know, there were a lot of jokes about prostitution. We 319 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:27.359 never had street walkers here. They were always houses of prostitution, but no 320 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:32.160 street walking. Police wouldn't allow it. The police were really kind of on 321 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:36.680 the take in many ways for decades and decades until that was probably stamped out 322 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:41.200 and it moved. Some of the prostitution problems moved into Clarkston, Washington, 323 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:47.720 across the state line which the two cities are other than a river would be 324 00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:52.119 abutting each other. So even if the rumors about Patty being a prostitute or 325 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:57.079 false, there was enough real history of prostitution in Lewiston to understand why some 326 00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.720 people, especially those who were old and have to remember it, might believe 327 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:06.559 it to be true that Patty had gotten involved in it. Here's a retired 328 00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:11.279 police detective, Tom Selene's take on the prostitution theory. At that time period 329 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:18.640 in Orpina, Idaho, they had a house of ill repute called the Wreck 330 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.680 and it was the only one that I know of an area, and further 331 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:29.200 up the river earlier they had one at Maggie's Been, So prostitution was allowed 332 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:37.200 in Clearwater County, but not in the Lewiston area. But as a house 333 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:44.200 of ill repute in Lewiston. You know, there may have been a case 334 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:51.519 there or there, but there was nothing with anything of that would bring anybody's 335 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:55.960 attention to it. No, Patty was, in my opinion, Patty was 336 00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:00.640 out a prostitute. She's a twenty four twenty six year old, this young 337 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:07.119 girl, and she has two kids, and she's close with her family. 338 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.359 She's close with a parents. She wants to get her a further her life 339 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:17.720 and get an education, and she's working on that. And she's, to 340 00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:24.559 all our knowledge, was a wholesome young woman. Now she may she may 341 00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:32.240 have had it some time with someone else, and that was fairly popular in 342 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:40.920 the seventies, and with her being a run around whore, I would say 343 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:49.000 zero zero chance. Then there's the angle of Patty having an affair with a 344 00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:54.160 police captain. It appears that Dodie and a man named A Meal Fliger may 345 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:59.599 have been the people who originally told Ralph that Patty had been hanging out at 346 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:05.160 the wood Shed Bar in Winchester with Duane Ayler. Flagger had helped with construction 347 00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:09.079 work on the Woodshed Bar and knew a lot of people in Lewistowon. Dodie 348 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:14.599 insists that Fliger told her he saw Patty and Duane Ayler together at the bar. 349 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.519 Patty's sister, Alice, doesn't believe it, but she never knew about 350 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:23.160 the fling between Patty and Randy, so it's possible she'd be unaware if Patty 351 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:30.160 had other extramarital relationships. The rumor about Patty and the police captain became so 352 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:37.480 widely circulated that at one point Stayed investigators who began assisting with the search for 353 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:43.960 Patty Otto asked Lewiston police about it. Duane Ayler submitted a written statement swearing 354 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:47.480 that he had never met Patty and had never been involved with her. A 355 00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:52.240 new Lewiston investigator who had been assigned to Patty's case in nineteen eighty seven, 356 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:58.400 interviewed Fliger because Dody was still insisting that police follow up on that angle. 357 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.119 Here's producer Christine Hughes reading a portion of the report written by that police officer. 358 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:15.199 My purpose in contacting Fliger was to verify the accuracy of several statements concerning 359 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:21.000 the Patricia Otto missing person case as related to you by missus Dolores Dodie Otto. 360 00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:27.920 Upon initial contact with Fliger, I did verify that he was in fact 361 00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:32.440 a former employee of a mister Jack Roadie, a contractor who was responsible for 362 00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:39.760 some of the construction on the Woodshed Tavern in Winchester, Idaho. Fliger also 363 00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:45.760 indicated he was in fact familiar with Patty Otto and her family the O'Malley's. 364 00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:57.559 Fliger further confirmed that he does know Duane Ayler. Fliger indicated he does recognize 365 00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:01.760 Ailer by sight, however, his not seen him for approximately ten to twelve 366 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:09.400 years. I asked Fliger if there was any validity to Dolores Otto's statement that 367 00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:15.639 he had observed Patty Otto and Dwane Ayler together at the Woodshed Tavern in Winchester, 368 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:23.199 Idaho, a short time before Patty's disappearance. Fliger indicated he could positively 369 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:30.719 not say in any way that Otto's statement had any validity. The report said 370 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:36.119 Emil Fliger had worked for Jack Roadie, who was the father of Ron Rody, 371 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:40.360 the Otto's babysitter. The rumors about Patty seemed to be growing like a 372 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:45.280 real life game of telephone. Why would Dodie be so convinced that Patty was 373 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:50.760 still alive and that Ralph hadn't harmed her, especially if she thought Ralph was 374 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:54.360 a crook and knew he had a bad temper. We'll get to that. 375 00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:00.719 If Patty had in fact simply left Ralph and the girls, we could see 376 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.880 why Ralph would no longer want Patty back, especially if he truly believed she 377 00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:08.000 was a prostitute or had been having an affair with a member of the police 378 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:13.760 force. One of the cops who was investigating him. This is Ron Roady 379 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:19.960 again. After she disappeared, the police started hounding him. I mean they 380 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:24.320 were they were after him, so you know they were. They were hounding 381 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:34.320 him relentlessly. That he was always he was just constantly drunk. Nothing really 382 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:40.559 changed. He didn't talk about her to me, and they just are asked 383 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:45.840 him, and they are asked me because I was involved with him. It 384 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:50.159 was it was pretty bad. The cops was pretty corrupt back he super corrupt, 385 00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:54.199 like say, two of the head detectives were running a prostitution ring. 386 00:36:55.239 --> 00:37:00.880 But I'm sure Dwayne Aylor was having an affair with Patty because they had been 387 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:07.079 steaming together. By people out and about him. There was pretty much no 388 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:12.679 doubt that happened, and I think that's why Blaine took her disappearance so seriously 389 00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:16.960 and started harassing Ralph so bad. Oh yeah, it was quite a big 390 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:23.159 deal. We think it's important that you know the details of the seemingly convoluted 391 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:30.559 theories about Patty because it helps give context to the afternoon of October twenty sixth, 392 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:35.679 nineteen seventy six, not quite two months after Patti Otto vanished without a 393 00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:42.360 trace. On that day, Ralph went to the Long Branch Saloon in Lewistown, 394 00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.840 where he had several drinks with a friend and his brother Ray. At 395 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:51.760 one point in the evening, a waiter came to the table and told Ralph 396 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:55.159 that he had a phone call that he could answer at the bar. Ralph 397 00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:00.159 got up and went to the bar, and Ray continued talking with Ralph's friend. 398 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:06.480 After talking on the phone briefly, Ralph stepped outside, out of sight 399 00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:12.400 of Ray and his friend. While he was outside, Ralph left an envelope 400 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:20.760 of cash inside a pickup truck with California license plates. The cash was a 401 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:31.039 down payment for a professional assassin to kill Lewiston Police Captain Duane Ayler. Next 402 00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:37.079 time on Still everywhere we went those cuffs on our tail. Vick told my 403 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:39.360 husband, who worked for the guard, that he better watch out when he 404 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:52.960 was doing because he made his job. Anyone with information pertaining to the disappearance 405 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:59.480 of Patricia Otto should contact the Lewiston Police Department's tipline at two zero eight to 406 00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:05.800 nine eight three nine three nine. Anyone with information pertaining to the identity of 407 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.360 the Finlay Creek, Jane Doe, or other information related to that case should 408 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:15.840 contact the Union County District Attorney at DA at Union hyphen County dot org. 409 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:21.679 If you, or anyone you know is a victim of domestic abuse, please 410 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:30.599 contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at eight hundred seven nine nine. Safe Still 411 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:37.519 is a production of The Reporter's Notebook and Grayson Shaw Media. You can connect 412 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:43.519 with us online at the Reporter's Notebook dot com or via email at info at 413 00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:50.760 the Reporter's Notebook dot com. Still was researched, written and produced by Karen 414 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:59.039 Shaw Anderson. Additional research and script editing provided by Christine Hughes. Original music 415 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:06.159 by Smith Uosa, Additional narration provided by b. J. Blackburn. I'm 416 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:13.079 your host and associate producer Gary Anderson. Special thanks to everyone who graciously provided 417 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:17.559 interviews and help with our research. We would specifically like to thank the advocates 418 00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:24.079 for Patricia Otto and the Finlay Creek Jane Doe Task Force. Like Follow and 419 00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:30.159 subscribe to Still on your favorite podcast platform, and follow us on Facebook or 420 00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:38.719 Twitter to join the conversation. Ezekiel thirty four sixteen. I will seek the 421 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:43.400 lost, and I will bring back the stray, and I will bind up 422 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:45.840 the injured, and I will strengthen the week.