WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.120 This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to kf I Am six forty the 2 00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:09.560 Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on demand on the iHeartRadio Appy by AM six forty. 3 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:13.160 You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. 4 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:15.320 If you're new to my show, you should know that I have a 5 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:19.920 PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor, but my obsession is the 6 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:24.960 science of love. I've written three books on relationships, and I fully believe 7 00:00:25.239 --> 00:00:29.559 that every relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship, a workplace relationship, apparent 8 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:35.840 child relationship, they all have biological, psychological, and sociological pieces. I 9 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:42.079 know a bunch of psychobabble there. Basically, we need to learn the skills 10 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:47.200 to have healthy, healthy, long term relationships. The research is clear. 11 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:53.000 Long term committed people actually have better mental health, they have better physical health, 12 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:57.640 they live longer, and they tend to accumulate more wealth. Now we're 13 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.280 also outgrowing our relationships. You know, when Death Do us Part was invented, 14 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:06.519 death was pretty imminent and because of our long lifespans, many even very 15 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:11.120 monogamous people may find themselves having two or three long stints of monogamy with some 16 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.359 mate selection in between. You like to call that dating. One of the 17 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:19.280 things when it comes to relationship skills and psychology, one of the things that 18 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:26.200 I hear people talk about a lot are boundaries, requests, and ultimatums. 19 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.760 I listened to this very funny comedian. I'm gonna have to producer, Kayla 20 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:34.280 before we get too far into it. How are you? I'm wonderful doctor. 21 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:38.319 I just start out a rant about boundaries because I was thinking about this 22 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:42.519 comedian I saw last night, Leanne Leanne, Leanne, I think her last 23 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:45.879 name starts with an M. Blond lady from like Tennessee or something. Was 24 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.159 she hilarious. She did this thing about boundaries that was so funny. She 25 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.280 said something like, you know, my son and his wife are pregnant and 26 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.959 they use the word their baby and I said, no, no, it's 27 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:04.000 our baby. And then they use this their word called boundaries, and she 28 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:06.879 said, I knew six months into it, when they're overtired and she's up 29 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:08.639 at three in the morning breastfeeding a lamp, that they would forget about that 30 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.960 word boundaries. And she goes, now that baby's too. They just cruise 31 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.840 by slowly and throw the kid on the front lawns. That's not like. 32 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:23.240 What the joke was about is that we do need to have some boundaries within 33 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:29.879 all of our relationships, but we also know that we're interdependent on each other 34 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:32.719 and we need each other at the same time. So one of the things 35 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.039 that people often say to me is, well, I set a boundary. 36 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:42.319 I tell this person not to do that, but they do it anyway. 37 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:46.439 So for instance, one thing, let's say in the early stages of a 38 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.479 dating relationship. This is a very common thing that happens. People will write 39 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:51.080 to me or call me and they will say and by the way, if 40 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.319 you want to put any questions on social media, this is the time to 41 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:54.599 do it. Near the end of the show, I'm going to be going 42 00:02:54.639 --> 00:03:00.319 to social media to answer some of your relationship questions with my drive by make 43 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:06.199 Shift relationship Advice. The handle everywhere is at dr Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy 44 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.759 Walsh. Come on over to Instagram, send me a DM. I'll change 45 00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:13.360 your name. I'm not going to like embarrass you here. That's not where 46 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:15.759 I'm in the business of. But right a tithing we'll get to it. 47 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:21.919 Um So anyway, when people say so early in a relationship, it is 48 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:27.319 very common in modern times for men to only text. You know, they 49 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:30.439 don't like to talk that much. Women are the ones of words. Men 50 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:32.639 don't talk that much, you know. I've been reading the research on this, 51 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:37.840 by the way, Kayla, and did you know that there's actually supposedly 52 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:40.759 only a slight difference in how many words men say a day compared to how 53 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.919 many words women say. However, the research I read was done on psychology 54 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.520 graduate students, so of course the more verbal men are going to join a 55 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:53.879 psychology program and they're going to be talking class, etc. So that's the 56 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.439 chatterbox of men, the psychology. That's that's where they go. That's the 57 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:04.879 chatterboxes. Because I've been doing some construction and I've had two guys doing some 58 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:09.000 work in my apartment. They have a little country music playing in the background 59 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:13.439 on a small iPhone, and they every once in a while we'll say something 60 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:15.280 to each other about, oh look, when I found looking at them doing 61 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:16.920 here, could you hold this for me? Whatever? Very simple. But 62 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.399 then the painters came to join them, and the painters were two women, 63 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:28.160 and I swear non stop talking from morning till night, and rather than music, 64 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:31.879 they had their iPhones on with podcasts. They were listening to podcasts. 65 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.199 Unfortunately, podcast was about astrology. Look, don't shoot me. Okay, 66 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:42.560 I'm just quoting this science. I'm a psychology professor. I try to make 67 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.199 sure that all my students learn that there's no science to astrology. Okay, 68 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:50.279 you guys, has been so much research done. It's just you projecting onto 69 00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:54.560 those vague words. Oh yeah, that's me. That's me. I'm that. 70 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.680 No, you're not. It's made up. Okay, let's get back. 71 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.680 So, in the early stages of a dating relations and ship, very 72 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.279 common for men to only text, and women like the words, and they 73 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.199 love them to have phone calls. They want to actually get to know the 74 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:09.639 person besides just face to face and potential for sex. Right, they want 75 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:13.240 to they want to get to know having these long lingering You know. One 76 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.759 of the things women say to each other when they one of the girlfriends meets 77 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.079 a new guy, as they say, does he give good phone? Right, 78 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:23.680 that's a thing we compare guys based on does he give good phone? 79 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.399 So they will say to me, what do I do to keep him from 80 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.199 texting? And I'd say, well, tell him that you prefer phone calls, 81 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.600 Like, first of all, just communicate it right. Then they say, 82 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:38.000 well, I told him, buddy still texts. I say, you 83 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:45.360 didn't set a boundary, you made a request. So both boundaries and requests 84 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:50.279 are definitely tools you can use in your interpersonal relationships. So when we make 85 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:58.079 a request, we're asking somebody else to do something or not do something because 86 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.800 we want you know, we have a need and we want our needs met. 87 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:04.000 Okay, so we say, hey, i'd prefer phone calls. Now, 88 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:10.560 a boundary is a little bit different because a boundary isn't about trying to 89 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.800 get somebody else to change their behavior. It's about figuring out what you will 90 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:20.560 actually tolerate, right. It's about changing your behavior in reaction to their not 91 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:26.120 obeying your request. So all boundaries start out with a request. If the 92 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:30.240 request gets ignored, then you set a boundary, which is I will change 93 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:35.519 my behavior in reaction to your behavior. So let's go back to our example 94 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:40.120 of a guy who texts too much. She wants him to call. She 95 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.519 says, I always say the text should say hey, I'm not a big 96 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.920 texter, but if I see your number pop up on my phone, I'll 97 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.560 be happy to pick up the call. But then you set a boundary, 98 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:58.439 which is you don't reward his texting by texting back liked. It's like going 99 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:01.600 I. He's like calling a guy who hasn't called you in two weeks and 100 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.480 say I'm calling you to break up with you. Well, he already did 101 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.800 it, didn't call you for two weeks, right, So if you're texting 102 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:13.360 back, he's saying the rule's not there. Every boundary needs to be tested, 103 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:16.600 Every boundary needs a little test, and so you have to absolutely not 104 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.959 respond to his text Now if he calls, and when he calls, then 105 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.800 you can't punish him for the good behavior, because that's when the girls pick 106 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:30.680 up the phone and they say things like, oh, I see you figured 107 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:32.360 out how to make a phone call. Only took you two weeks, no 108 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:36.120 new new. Is that a reward for good behavior. No, as soon 109 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.720 as you see his number, you pick it up on that first ring and 110 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:42.839 you say, hey, I was just thinking about you. How are you? 111 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.879 That's what you do. You reward the behavior. So that's boundaries and 112 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.600 requests. Now there's one other thing, and that's an ultimatum. And ultimatums 113 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:01.120 never work. They are basically trying to manipulate somebody. You're tone is usually 114 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.920 angry. You give them a date. If we're not engaged by this date, 115 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:09.079 that I'm out of here. Whatever. That's an ultimatum. And even 116 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.600 if you do change somebody's behavior with an ultimatum, it's only short term, 117 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.879 doesn't last a long time, and you build up that friendly feeling of resentment 118 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:24.399 into your relationship. Hey, speaking of relationships, when we come back, 119 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:26.160 are you in a long distance relationship? I actually have a way where you 120 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:30.040 can participate in some research. Want to do that? That'd be cool. 121 00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:33.159 You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and kf I AM six forty. 122 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:39.240 We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on 123 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.840 demand from kf I AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walsh 124 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:48.519 Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. 125 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:54.399 So Producer Kyla, have you ever been in a long distance relationship? Long 126 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.279 distance situationship, not a committed relationship. Oh so, your way of keeping 127 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:01.480 it safe the two of you as to just kind of go or not where 128 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.480 not Yeah, we can both do whatever we want to do, because it's 129 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.600 unrealistic to think that we can or we won't. Did that bother you that 130 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:11.600 to think that he was with other women when you were no, because I'm 131 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:16.679 typically I was typically, you know, doing my own thing too. You're 132 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.399 busy with your retribution, exactly exact my own retribution. I've had a number 133 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.519 of long distance relationships, and I had a you know, sort of attraction 134 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:31.519 to them because you know, I think all of our models for love go 135 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:35.080 back to our early childhood in some way. And in my situation, he 136 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:39.039 probably heard me say this before. My dad was in the navy, and 137 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:45.120 he was gone in a really inconsistent way, inconsistent pattern. In other words, 138 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:46.799 the ship would be gone for a week, and then he'd be back 139 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.240 for two months, and then he'd be gone for three months, and then 140 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.559 back for three days and then gone for six days or whatever. And so 141 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:01.440 that inconsistency of presence of parents was, you know, deregulated me, destabilized 142 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:03.879 me in some way. I didn't know this. I was just a little 143 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:09.639 kid. But it also whenever I had that experience with a romantic partner later 144 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:15.120 in life, my brain confused it with love, because somehow that went to 145 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.200 sort of create my faulty model of love. The other thing about my dad 146 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.720 that was great is he he really loved us and cared about us, and 147 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.919 he felt bad that he had this job and he was away all the time. 148 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.840 So when he'd come back, he always showered us with gifts. He 149 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:30.440 gave us lots of attention. And then there I am, as an adult 150 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.480 woman dating these either avoidant playboys who disappeared. My nickname for them, you 151 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.159 know, my nickname for these guys where I dated so many of them, 152 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:43.919 Kayla advance retreaters, doctor Wendy. What advance retreaters? Because they would advance 153 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.840 and come on strong and give me wine and dine and flowers and make me 154 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:50.840 treat you know, just treat me so well, and then they'd retreat. 155 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:56.120 Ah, yeah, I've been there. They'd advance and they'd retreat. It 156 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:01.240 really stimulated me in some crazy way, literally crazy. I felt crazy and 157 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.960 I was I'm making light of it, but honestly it caused me a lot 158 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.720 of pain. So let me just say that I have had a lot of 159 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:13.720 experience with long distance relationships in my life. I also have read a lot 160 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:18.120 of research on long distance relationships. They tend to attract certain kinds of people 161 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.080 like me, the sort of anxious, ambivalent person that I used to be, 162 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:26.879 meaning I, you know, was always longing. I was fearing abandoned 163 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.320 men. But if that person was actually there in the same city and being 164 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.480 very attentive to me, I'd say, Oh, they're too nice, what's 165 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.799 wrong with them right now? So I was ambivalent about the closeness in some 166 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.240 way. And the other thing it attracts are people who are kind of emotionally 167 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:46.559 avoidant. No comment about what you told me earlier, Kayla, but people 168 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:52.600 who prefer situation ships where there are no emotional strings attached, where it's kind 169 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:54.320 of like I'll just fly in, have fun, fly out, not going 170 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:56.919 to be I did not diagnose you, Kayla. Did you hear that I 171 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:03.159 did not take personal I actually like relationships over situationships. I just find myself 172 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.960 in situation ships. Yeah, the unconscious leads us places. It really does. 173 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.639 But what the research says on long distance relationships is that because people are 174 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:16.879 always like, wow, is it going to work? Are we gonna get 175 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:18.120 together in the same city? Well, only if you do that, if 176 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.360 you actually have a plan. The best long distance relationships have an exit date, 177 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.759 meaning that there's a date where one of you is going to quit your 178 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:28.879 job and move to the other city. You've made a plan to do that, 179 00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:33.279 or maybe the person has taken the job just for a period of time, 180 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.879 like I have to go to London just six months and I'll be back. 181 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.159 That sounds very romantic to fly in and have those dinners in London. 182 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:46.840 That's fine. That's different than this open ended going nowhere. Everybody nervous and 183 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:52.360 worried about what they're doing when they're not there. Those long distance relationships have 184 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:56.679 a difficult time. Also, long distance relationships do better if they started out 185 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.159 in the same city. You built the trust, you built the security. 186 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:03.480 When you're separate from your lover, you feel sad and you miss them, 187 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.840 and you're able to express that and you have plans and dates on the table 188 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:09.200 of when to do it, When you're gonna do it, you know, 189 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.399 meet each other, get to get together. That's fine. It's those that 190 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.279 you know. You think there's nobody in my city to date, So I'm 191 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.480 just going to go on the app and I'm going to try different zip codes. 192 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.240 It'll be more exotic, it'll be lovely to go all over the country, 193 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.000 and then it starts off as a long distance relationship that is nothing but 194 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:33.240 a series of honeymoon delusions, one after another because you've never had the day 195 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.240 to day struggle, and you get the benefit of the time delay in between 196 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.840 the texts and the phone calls, so if they catch you in a bad 197 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.240 mood, you don't have to respond at that moment. You can go get 198 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.200 a massage and then call them back, right, And that's not what real 199 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.519 life really is. I do want to say that there's a couple red flags 200 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.279 that if you have them in your long distance relationship, you should be aware 201 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:58.000 of. But before I do that, I want to tell you that there's 202 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.000 a researcher who we have had on our show, our podcast a number of 203 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:07.840 number of times, doctor Amri Gilath at the University of Kansas, and he 204 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.960 has a graduate student named Nicole Phelps who's right now as we speak, mounting 205 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:18.360 a study on long distance relationships. So she asked me if I would just 206 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.480 give a shout out about her study, and UM, We're gonna put her 207 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.799 email up on the doctor Wendy blog today on the website. So if you 208 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:31.000 go to kf I am six forty dot com and search doctor Wendy Walsh Kala 209 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:33.519 is going to put it up there. We have a little video from the 210 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:35.679 researcher, Nicole Phelps. I'm going to give out our email address right now. 211 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:37.679 Get a pen, get it out, Get up pen, pencil, 212 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.399 do it, do it? Do it? Okay, it's Nicole m as 213 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:48.759 a Mary Nicole M. Phelps pH E LPs at KU dot edu. KU 214 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:54.679 for Kansas University, but it's University Kansas KU dot edu. Nicole M. 215 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.279 Phelps at KU dot edu. She is looking for participants. If you're in 216 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.519 a long distance relate. I think what she's going to have you do is 217 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.960 download an app and just track like how often you're in touch or something like 218 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.000 that, and answer some questions about your feelings and relationship quality. All anonymous. 219 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.559 All these research studies are anonymous. All right, So what are the 220 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:16.159 red flags? You're in this long distance relationship and you're like, is it 221 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.279 going to work or is it not going to work? Well? I know 222 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:26.279 we all have these thoughts. We wonder what our partner is doing when we're 223 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.840 not with them. We might feel because of this worried, we might feel 224 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.639 frustrated, we might even feel jealous, and we might even like provoke them 225 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:41.000 to try to get show their attention to us by grilling them about who are 226 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:45.200 they seeing or what are they doing right? All this is unhealthy behavior, 227 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:50.799 just letting you know. However, if your partner ask you, ask if 228 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:56.279 they can track you because they want to feel more secure in the relationship, 229 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:03.240 that's a big red flag. Okay, you can't sacrifice your privacy just because 230 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:08.240 your partner has their own anxiety, their own mistrust. Okay, So if 231 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.080 you are asked by your partner in a long distance relationship to hand over passwords 232 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:17.159 to your social media, your email accounts that they can online stock you or 233 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:22.960 do location services. Now again, this is a different situation then if you've 234 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.279 been in a long term relationship for a couple of years, somebody's taken a 235 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.559 job in another city and for security purposes, you want to know where each 236 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.600 other are. But you've built the trust in security. But this is different. 237 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.679 Somebody going who are you going with? Where are you going? Why 238 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.600 are you're out with them? And then they ask you can they track you? 239 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.039 Don't do it? This is a really really red flag. And there's 240 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:48.240 one other huge red flag. It has to do with those sexy pictures and 241 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.000 videos. And I'm going to break it down and explain the law and the 242 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.600 rules for love to you after my next guest. You know who I have 243 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.559 coming up? Oh my gosh, a world famous sex researcher Peggy Cline plats 244 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:07.759 you won't believe what she says about couples who have magnificent sex. You're listening 245 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.559 to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and kf I AM six forty. We're live 246 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.559 everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from 247 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.319 kf I AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on 248 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.720 KFI AM six forty, but live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Ever, 249 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:29.279 wonder why some people want to have sex a lot and some people don't want 250 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.119 to have sex a lot or just sometimes you know, you could spend a 251 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.400 lot of time with a sex therapist trying to figure out if you've got a 252 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:41.240 sexual dysfunction, if your partner has a sexual dysfunction. But the researcher that 253 00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:48.359 I want to introduce now actually studies what works in sexual relationships. She's a 254 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.720 professor in the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Ottawa. I would like 255 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.000 to welcome doctor Peggy Kline Plats, Doctor Cleinplatz. Did I say your name 256 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:03.720 correctly? You did, like you Dctor Walsh, Welcome, Welcome. So 257 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:11.039 basically, what's so interesting about your research is that you say that men and 258 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.759 women actually have more in common sexually as far as you're concerned, than not. 259 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:22.079 Can you explain sure, I think most sex therapists and sex research is 260 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:27.079 focused on what's wrong the sexual dysfunctions, what are the reasons for low sexual 261 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:34.079 desire? And sure enough, low libido is the most common thing that sex 262 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:38.519 therapists come across in men and women, of young people of old people, 263 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.440 people of every age, people in every demographic. The main things they complain 264 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:48.599 about are related to desire. And given that I mostly work with couples, 265 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.039 or is referred to by most of us in the field as sexual desire discrepancy. 266 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.680 So and I'm sure that most couple is the important part. In my 267 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:03.880 word, most couples are listening, probably at least every once in a while, 268 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:08.119 have this issue where one person has this desire to have hot sex and 269 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:12.960 the others as a million reasons, but doesn't have the same kind of desire 270 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:22.240 And so what have you discovered in your research? Well, whereas most people 271 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:26.720 are studying the person with low desire to figure out what's wrong with that person 272 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:33.319 for not wanting sex, my research team, the Optimal Sexual Experience Research Team 273 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.559 at the University of Ottawa, has spent the last fifteen almost twenty years now 274 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:41.440 studying couples where their sex got better and better over time to find out what 275 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:48.960 they were doing right and when it comes to sex that's really fulfilling. We 276 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:52.880 don't see any differences between men and women, between people who are gay or 277 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:59.240 straight, people who are kinky or vanilla. What we find is that the 278 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.440 stuff makes people glow in the dark is the same no matter who you are, 279 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:11.680 and when people are having sex it's really worth wanting. Then we don't 280 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:17.039 see problems of sexual desire discrepancy. But what is it that people can be 281 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.839 doing. What are we missing out on? What is this important information? 282 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.799 Because there is a lot of finger pointing in bedrooms that there's low desire and 283 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:29.680 it's somebody's fault, But what is the magic for these couples that you say, 284 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:37.000 actually start to have better sex as their relationship unfolds. Yeah, it's 285 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:45.000 not about magic, and it's not about the usual tips, tricks, technique 286 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:53.559 and toys mentality. It's about the stuff that makes people really feel connected within 287 00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:00.200 and with each other. So some of the obvious stuff that we forget yet 288 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:07.759 in long term relationships trust, authenticity, the kind of communication that lets you 289 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:17.720 really feel known and loved and where you can be yourself and know that whatever 290 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:25.240 is revealed in moments of intense erotic intimacy will be not only seen, but 291 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:29.279 cherished and treasured by your partner, so that you can afford to let go. 292 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:34.400 Oh that's so sweet. So, for instance, would you recommend that 293 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:41.240 couples always, if at least grow enough trust to discuss their fantasies with each 294 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:49.599 other. Well, I'm not so sure. It's about telling information, not 295 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:55.519 about a little to the left, slowdown or here's my heart of sexual fantasy. 296 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.880 I think it's more about the kind of trust that's required to be yourself 297 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:07.160 in the moment during sex. So it's less about the right words, and 298 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:15.920 it's more about the kind of empathic communication that allows you to open up not 299 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:19.079 just literally but metaphorically, so that someone can really get under your skin and 300 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:22.720 get to know you. You know what this brings to mind for me, 301 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:27.559 doctor Klein Platts. When I was pregnant with my first daughter and I was 302 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:34.160 taking all these labor prep getting ready to deliver that natural childbirth class, one 303 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.799 of the things they talked about is they said, you really need to learn 304 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.680 to turn off your mind during labor and let the animal take over. You 305 00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:48.960 need to literally stop overthinking the process, relax your body, and enjoy the 306 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.319 experience. And it's sort of stuck with me that this instructor had said this 307 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.960 that we are you know, obviously we are thinking, and we're intellectual creatures, 308 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:02.599 but sometimes that can get in the way, especially if the thoughts involve 309 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.559 emotions like shame. Right, if we could just learn to I mean, 310 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.000 I hate to to say, just relax, but you know, if we 311 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:12.799 could learn to let our bodies do what they need to do. Then you 312 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:23.799 mentioned something wonderful empathic communication. Explain that. Sure in the couples the sex 313 00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:27.839 loves got better and better as they hit their sixties, seventies, and eighties. 314 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:33.720 It turned out that they were capable of being empathic in the way they 315 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:40.720 communicated with words and more importantly, perhaps through touch. Now, think about 316 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.440 okay, not giving birth, but the way your body feels when you know 317 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.279 that somebody is about to give you a vaccine. You know, your arm 318 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:55.759 tightens up right right now, Think about the way your body feels as you're 319 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.880 getting into a hot tub. It's just the right temperature your whole body goes. 320 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:08.440 That's easy for someone to feel you and get under your skin in the 321 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:12.759 hot tub, so to speak, but not so easy for the person to 322 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:17.559 really get to know anything. But the fact that your arm is tight as 323 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:25.039 you're getting a vaccine. Yes, right, defensive. So empathic communication is 324 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:29.000 not just about sharing the right words. It's about touching somebody in such a 325 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:34.440 way that you're really responding to the nuances of that person, so that you 326 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:42.440 can feel into that person's space because that person trusts you enough to let you 327 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:51.000 in literally metaphorically. And similarly, it means that when you touch your partner, 328 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:56.160 you're touching in such a way as to really try to get to know 329 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:00.000 that person. I mean, so often I've heard patient in my office complain, 330 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:03.799 you know, when my partner touches me, it doesn't matter where my 331 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.519 partner is giving me a BackRub or a foot rubb, or stroking my genitals. 332 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:12.200 It's as if my partner's polishing wood, you know, back and forth 333 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:18.319 and back and forth. It's as if my partner's not actually touching me and 334 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:23.960 communicating empathetically through touch means that you really are touching with the sensitivity that's required 335 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.480 to really come to know another person, which is unique to that person in 336 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:36.400 that moment. You can't just pick up some formula by reading a book. 337 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.240 You can't even just repeat what work last week. It's a question of getting 338 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.039 to know the person all over again every time the two of you touch and 339 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.160 through touch. I want to talk more about this. We have to go 340 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.200 to a break right now. Can you stay with me, Doctor client Plats, 341 00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.240 I'd be delighted, Doctor Walsh, I want to when we come back, 342 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:02.720 discuss one quote that you are world famous for. Your quote is it's 343 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.559 rational to have a low desire for undesirable sex. When we come back, 344 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.119 doctor Moore from Doctor Peggy Cline Platz, a professor at the Faculty of Medicine 345 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.039 at the University of Ottawa that's in Canada where I'm from. You're listening to 346 00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:18.200 the doctor Wendy Walls show and kf I AM six forty. We're live everywhere 347 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:23.880 on the iHeartRadio appute. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from kf 348 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:29.079 I AM six forty. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI 349 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:33.240 AM six forty. My guest doctor Peggy kline Platz, Professor and the Faculty 350 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.240 of Medicine at the University of Ottawa and the author of the book Magnificent Sex. 351 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:42.279 Okay, Doctor Kleinplatz, your quote is so fascinating to me because there's 352 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:48.440 been so much discussion over the years and even diagnosis about people who have low 353 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.200 desire. I'm going to share a personal story. I dated this playboy on 354 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.880 and off for ten years. I had an anxious attachment style. He had 355 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:00.200 an avoidant style. He triggered me in all kinds of ways, so I 356 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.640 would try to set up boundaries by not physically responding to him sexually, and 357 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.440 he'd say, you know, he would use the term you're frigid and there's 358 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:11.880 something wrong with you, right, you need to And I remember thinking like, 359 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.839 maybe there's something wrong with me. But I didn't know about all the 360 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:22.839 psychological pieces that also go into sex that sex very much is partly biological, 361 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:29.559 partly psychological, and even sometimes sociological if you like somebody's resume. So your 362 00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:36.599 quote it's rational to have a low desire for undesirable sex says what, well, 363 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:41.319 I think you've just proven with your anecdote that sex doesn't exist to a 364 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:48.640 vacuum. You knowingly turned yourself off because there were problems exactly and howd your 365 00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:55.160 partner created a more fulfilling relationship with you. I'm willing to bet the tvie 366 00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:03.920 would have created sex worth wanting. So context is everything When we assess for 367 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:08.279 sexual problems. We typically look at the biological, or the psychosocial, or 368 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:15.799 the interpersonal, but there's more. There's stuff like what is the quality of 369 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.119 sex itself? Is the vision of sex that you have in the vision of 370 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:25.240 your sex that your partner has? Are they compatible? Are you both having 371 00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:29.920 the same idea as to what sex ideally should look like? And if the 372 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:33.640 two of you have different visions of what sex ought to be, then it's 373 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.599 no wonder that the sex you end up having might not be desirable for one 374 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:42.200 of you or both of you. So it's not so much about compatibility, 375 00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.960 though that's part of it, it's about something more basic. What do you 376 00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:51.000 want sex to look like? Do you want it to be an hour and 377 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:56.319 a half of leisurely, slow, sensual caressing. Are you looking for something 378 00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:06.279 hot and heavy that lasts for ten minutes? What's your perfect vision? And 379 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:11.000 how do you deal with couples that may have two different visions of sex and 380 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:14.440 you know they're committed to each other intellectually, they may have children, they're 381 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:18.400 going to stay together. How do you treat couples who may have two you 382 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.599 know now they're into it for five or seven or ten years, and they 383 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.680 go, wait a minute, we want two different things sexually. What's the 384 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:30.400 answer. I have yet to have a couple who walks into my office with 385 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.480 the question for in that way. Usually they frame it as you know that 386 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:38.680 one is a sex addict while that other one is asexual. The reality is 387 00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:44.000 they don't bother really talking to each other about what they each want most. 388 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:49.839 And if I can get them talking about what each one would find desirable to 389 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:56.400 desire, disorder quote unquote tends to go away. So I need to get 390 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.200 them talking at a level where they can each at least be on this in 391 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:06.160 page about what they would each find arousing and worth wanting. And if instead 392 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:10.920 of settling for the lowest common denominator, I can get them to shoot for 393 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:17.920 the highest common denominator, they might actually both find the kinds of sexual experiences 394 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:21.119 that would make them each glow in the dark. You know what, this 395 00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.559 reminds me of the stuff we learned in our BA and psychology. How Sigmund 396 00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:30.480 Freud took these women who had these psychosomatic disorders. You know, we call 397 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.400 them conversion disorders today. Back then they called it hysteria, where they literally 398 00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:41.039 would have paralysis and blindness, and he could actually just get them talking about 399 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.799 what they were experiencing the trauma in their lives, and the physiological problems started 400 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:51.480 to go away. And so I think we all need to within our interpersonal 401 00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.559 relationships, who are sexual relationships. I do think we need to talk more 402 00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:00.079 about sex, not complain about sex, but talk more about what section look 403 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.319 like to us. Don't you agree? I agree with you very strongly, 404 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:11.480 and I'll even go a step further. There's something inherently erotic about making yourself 405 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.759 emotionally naked to a partner that when you really reveal who you are, there's 406 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.200 something hot about it. I mean, think about what we do when we're 407 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.920 dating. We ask each other lots and lots of questions, Oh, where 408 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.400 are you from, what did you like when you were in school, what 409 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:32.680 was your favorite subject, what's your favorite color? We get to know each 410 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.599 other, and there's something very appealing about that process. And very often once 411 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:44.440 people get into long term relationships, they stop revealing themselves, and the act 412 00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:51.759 of revealing oneself erotically need not stop. That's why I was saying before, 413 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.720 you know, just because something works today doesn't mean you want the formula for 414 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:01.160 how to get it right every time. There's nothing more are undesirable then doing 415 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:08.039 what works relentlessly. But if we can change to talk about and reveal who 416 00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:16.599 we are as erotic beings, then yeah, by stage erotic. I often 417 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:23.119 use the metaphor that if many couples in long terminogamy do figure out what works 418 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:28.160 and do that same thing over and over, and then it's like the erogen 419 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.680 zones to shrink and shrink and shrink, and it's like they're playing what used 420 00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.759 to be a twelve string guitar and they're down to plunking one little string left, 421 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:39.279 and we have to sort of stretch it out and play the whole song 422 00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:45.960 and use every note possible. And sometimes you have to like not be lazy, 423 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:50.400 like say what where can we add novelty? What can we do to 424 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:54.920 make this feel different? Because it's an investment in our relationship. I do 425 00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:00.559 think of our sex lives. You know, couples will put equal money into 426 00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:05.039 their pension funds together, they will invest in their child's education, but investing 427 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.839 in their relationship sometimes means investing in the sexual relationship and doing what it takes 428 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:15.799 to continue to make it great. You know, before we go, I 429 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:21.000 would love for you to give us one little takeaway that every married couple in 430 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.440 America can do today or tonight. And I know you're not about tips, 431 00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.279 tricks, or techniques, but is there something they can think or feel to 432 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:42.200 help their relationship tonight. I'm not about tips or tricks or doing, but 433 00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:46.440 I would encourage them to find ways to reconnect emotionally, which will become the 434 00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:55.559 foundation or reconnecting erotically. Isn't that true? One of my favorite studies on 435 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:00.920 men who never cheated. That's an interesting population to study, men who have 436 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.119 never had affairs. When they were asked why, they said, well, 437 00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.880 I had opportunity, but I had such a close emotional connection to my partner, 438 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:14.599 I didn't want to hurt her. It's the glue emotional connection. Thank 439 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:16.679 you so much for being with us, Doctor Peggy Cline Platts. Can you 440 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:22.880 tell people where they can find your books? They can find Magnificent Sex Lessons 441 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:30.320 from Extraordinary Lovers at their favorite bookstore or online and it's by me and Wonderfu. 442 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.440 Doctor Dan m Na, thank you so much for being with us. 443 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:36.880 When we come back. Do you wonder sometimes if you're in a relationship with 444 00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:38.840 a narcissist, Well, apparently if you go on the internet, that seems 445 00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.480 to be like half the boyfriends out there. Well, it's not true. 446 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.159 I'll explain when we come back. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show 447 00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:52.280 on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio Apple. You've 448 00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:54.320 been listening to Doctor Wendy Waalsh. You can always hear us live on kf 449 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:59.800 I Am six forty from seven to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand 450 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:00.400 on the iHeartRadio app.