What is crack lacing fellow thermonuclear efforts. I am Dana Valley joined by for
the first time in quite a while, but he is the co host of
one of my favorite team centric podcasts, the Chase Down podcast. Cleveland Cavaliers
podcast. Carter Rodriguez co host to Chase Down with Dustin Rowan, one of
my favorite podcasts. As I stumbled through this, we're going to talk about
the Cleveland Cavaliers. Follow Carter on Twitter at carter Underscore. Shade spelled exactly
as it sounds. Carter, it's been Wait, I think you're on this
podcast a couple of years ago. It's been way too long. So one,
apologies, and two, how the heck are you well? Luckily for
you, I'm horrible at accepting pod invites, so you know, the reality
is it's probably you probably did be a favor by not making me have to
say no, no, I'm doing great. Calves are super duper fun right
now. Family is super good. You can't ask for much more. Yeah,
I mean the Calves. We're here to talk, of course about Evan
Mogley trade packages, which is yeah, get We're here to talk about Look,
as we're recording this Darius Garland is back, Evan Mobley is back.
I don't think I ever would have predicted they would have made it through that
stretch, including the one game with Mobiley. Of course, they have the
best net rating in the NBA. Since that initial game, we're both Mobiley
and Garland lost. I have to start there. There are a lot of
elements that I think when you look at it, that go into what they
did but were. There are like a few things that stood out in particular.
Everyone's talking about jaredown or Donovan Mitchell or said, like, what is
what is just the secret sauce behind the calves just not just surviving this stretch,
but thriving during it. I'll knock out all the boring stuff first,
because I do think it's important to present a balanced blah blah blah blah blah.
Uh. So they have had a pretty darn easy schedule during this nineteen
game stretch. They've had one of the hardest stretches in the league. And
even even after this relatively easy stretch where they've gone fifteen and four, they
still have the third easiest schedule the rest of the way, which really underscores
how brutal the first you know, fifteen twenty games of their year, were
they all? And even when they've had some of their tougher matchups, you
know, they'll you know, going on the road to play at Orlando,
who has been really great at home all year, things like that, it
was the third game in four nights. Like they've had a couple of those,
like good breaks. They've also only played nineteen games. They've only played
nineteen games during this stretch. Twenty seven other teams have played at least twenty
two. The Pacers have played twenty six in the same stretch. So I
didn't notice that when I was looking at the numbers. G Yeah, so
they they've now part of that is skewed by the fact that they played They
had only one game in one week when they went to Paris to play Brooklyn.
So it's not like it's just been super spaced out like they've had you
know, relatively normal canes within that. But they're not getting like slam with
back to back after back to back after back to back in the in this
window since December fifteenth, so like plenty of you know, So that's all.
That's all like the boring context that I feel like I have to provide,
to be a good guest on your podcast and be relatively bounced. That
ain't context. That makes you the best team in the league over during your
quarter of the season, right with two of your three best players missing like
that, that is that that's like the reason why you might win one or
two more than expected. Not going on a tear that you know, puts
you right at the top of the Eastern Conference race for like the two seed,
Like they're right there with with Milwaukee, with Philly and with New York
and I think some of it has been just a straight up shot profile change.
They were not They didn't have a bad shot profile perconally in the last
ed that the fourth best in you know, before December fifteenth and the league
mostly living at the rim though they were first in the league in frequency of
shots at the rim, they were about six I believe there were sixteenth in
frequency from three. Since then they are numero one from three. I mean
they are they are bombing away, my friend, they are. They have
really they really had to embrace basically they come from deep that's that's something,
and they had to embrace that kind of high variance style. You know,
when you're when you're missing a lot of your ball handling. Because by the
way, Donovan Mitchell missed four or five of those games of those nineteen Karis
missed four or five of those games, So like they had to kind of
lean on their strength. And it's crazy to say, but you look up
and down their roster and Donovan Mitchell, Sam Merrill, which we'll get into
sam Merril, the meryl Sons, George Niang, Max Struce, Dean Wade,
Like they just have a lot of stretchy guys that can that can bomb
away, and they kind of lean into that. I also think there was
a degree of simple vacation, like they were a little just yucky on offense
to start the year. It's just everything felt like kind of a labor Everything
was a was a thought process. Nothing felt crazy smooth and like one thing
I think really helps, Like you look at the lineup they were starting of
Donovan Mitchell, Isaaca Coro, Max s Trus, Dean Wade, and Jared
Allen. Everyone knows their job in that starting five. You know, Jared
Allen, we had Serena Winters, who does amazing sideline work for for Ballet
sports on just on equip that's just totally unfazed. She's a g man,
the no look fistpump for jareded and she mentioned that she talked about how Jared
stepped up in the stretch and he's like, yeah, like I just know
I have to attack because like sometimes I think that the quote is like sometimes
I'll take the easy way out and just throw it up to Evan and the
dunker spot. Like like the fact that he just has to attack that that
Dean Wade, who is famously like at his worst is a guy who just
will disappear on offense for a whole game. Like he's a guy who might
play thirty three minutes and only get up two shot at syms and like that's
just really hard to deal with. But like there's no better option when you're
missing that many guys. So if Dean's a little open in the corner,
the team's like, bro, you got to shoot it. So like all
of these, you know, all of this decisiveness and clarity of purpose,
I think really helped them kind of bridge the talent gap because if you look
at their results, you know, we talk a lot about shooting luck on
the chase down because it matters a lot it's like, you know, a
lot of these games come down to did you make your wide open threes or
did you miss them? And sometimes you can look at a team's hot stretch
and go, oh, they're just hitting all their threes and that will normalize
and they'll they won't win that much. The Cavs are fifteenth in effective three
point or an effective field goal percentage, Like they are not out there actually
way undershooting their profile during this stretch. So like, even though it feels
like the offense has opened up so much, they're just they're just leaning into
that high variance. That high variance is married them along with a defense that
is just killing teams at the point of attack, with Isaaca Korro and Dean
Wade getting a ton more minutes, like they're their two best perimeter defenders on
the team that are sometimes the eighth and ninth man for them and they were
starting, so you know, being able to throw those guys at a Dame
Lillard and a Chris Middleton or a Paul George and a James Harden or a
Kawhi Leonard like that stuff really helps. And even though they have gotten a
little lucky on opponent shooting, the fact that they've had the number one defense
in the league during the stretch without their best defensive player, I think really
speaks to the way those guys are playing at the point of attack. So
it's funny when people ask, like, what's going so well? I have
nothing to say other than everything everything was going well. They didn't have a
single player who was playing poorly. Sam merrill Is taking the third most three
pointers per one hundred possessions in the history of the league and shooting forty two
percent on them. Yeah, I mean, like what, yeah, that's
just it's like and even so you look at it, you know, you
were mentioning. Okay, so they struggled from the field in certain areas,
but they make up for it with their three point shooting. And it's like
even Max Struce, I think ever since I think it was since the Garland
injury, he's at like thirty one percent from three or whatever it is,
and just the stuff he does has won a threat then, like his secondary
playmaking and movement inside the arc, it's just there. They it was so
collaborative the way it was happening, right down to Donovan Mitchell. But I
think the name that has received the most shine during this has been Jared Allen,
because we all know what Donovan Mitchell does and so I'm just curious as
to one. I know you don't know this, but like we skewered the
Jared Allen contract when it was signed on this podcast. So one of our
outrosy, we shout out Frank Nilokino because he's a legend, and then we
apologize to apologize to Jared Allen at the end of every podcast that Grant and
I do together for the past couple of seasons, I've talked to Justin about
how much better he's gotten on offense over the years. And then there's like,
now there's another level to it this season where you're looking at, yeah,
we know we can do the one and true dribble decision making. We
know he has the hookshot. Now it's like, oh, he has like
this crazy footwork when he's moving off the dribble and facing up to what has
most impressed you about the way that he's played or his offensive progression or just
what he has done during this stretch. I mean, again boring answer everything
he is he is. Really, they just kind of replaced Evan Mobley's top
of the key dribble handoff sets with Jarrett and you know, he's not quite
the passer Evan is, but he's done a heck of a good impression.
You know, he's had plenty of six to seven assist games, which has
just never been a part of his profile on offense. That's never been his
game. He's a he's been a play finisher, not a play initiator.
And the Cavs just were like, well, how about we try it,
buddy, and you know, like they and he's been able to do that
on super spaced courts where his reads are easier and he's just making the right
play more often than not. Then as an attacker, he's taking more mid
rangers, which he's always been a very good as a cavalry. He's been
a very good mid range jump shooter and just never takes them. He's got
like fifty three percent or something from mid range this year. That's why I
talk. I'm like fifty two attempts, but I don't really care. That's
like you're gonna get that from your center. That's lie by me. Yeah,
So he's he's taken those. I think his face up game, he
talked a lot. He talked to us at media Day about how he's really
been working on his face up game and how he attacks and when they've they've
played Milwaukee three times or four times this season, he's killed brook Lopez in
every game in isolations like brook will get him every now and again on some
of these rim attacks. But he's beating brook Lopez off the dribble from the
elbow to get to finish through him or finish over him when Brooks in too
deep of a drop, like we saw this guy get completely wiped out by
a drop defense in the playoffs against the next I mean completely, And the
fact that you know that you can tell this is a thing he's like,
Man, I'm just not happening to me again. If they dropped that far.
I'm going to find a way to kill teams, whether it's in my
dribble handoff game, whether it's in my floater game, whether it's in a
mid range jumper. And he's doing all of it and staying really, really
efficient. And then the one thing I really haven't seen in terms of praise
for Jarick because obviously everyone he's one of the most likable players in the league.
So I feel like whenever he does well, like everyone starts to gravitate
towards him. One thing I haven't seen is praise for his rebounding, because
that's the other spot where the Cavs got absolutely murdered last year in the playoffs.
They were dead last in the league after the All Star Break and defensive
rebound rate in the playoffs, they were certainly dead last because the Knicks just
destroyed them on that side of the ball. Through this stretch, they've been
the number two defensive rebounding team in the league. I think how he might
even have him at one at this point after the Clippers game. That is
very, very possible. So the fact of the matter is, like they're
doing that without Evan Mobley, who's the second best defensive rebounder on the team.
Uh And really like Dan Wade isn't a high rebound guy. Max Steus
has never been a high rebound guy. Isaaca Kor has never been a high
rebound guy. Tristan Thompson is, but he's mostly been an offensive glass guy.
He's never been a particularly elite defensive rebounder. So the fact that Jared's
like, I think Jared's just secured his sixteenth consecutive double double today, he's
just cleaning the glass in a way that like he's high pointing the ball,
he's grabbing, he's squeezing the orange and finishing plays like these are the these
are the little bits of improvement. Like the Cabs clearly learned a lot from
that playoff series. And I always talk about what lessons a front office chooses
to learn, because you can't just like you can't just try to solve every
problem that pops up in the playoff series because everything is so interdependent, right,
every every you know, everything you do, every tweak you have,
like whether it's oh we have to go switch on that, so now we're
not going to rebound as well. Like you can't just solve everything. You
have to figure out like what's like the root diagnosis. You not just treating
symptoms. The Cabs clearly were like, shooting this is a roote diagnosis.
We think if we can shoot the ball better, all this stuff goes away
and all the other things won't feel so bad. They did not go and
improve their defensive rebounding, like they're actually playing a little smaller on the perimeter,
and you know, and they're they're about the same in terms of the
front court. They're still just playing two traditional bigs throughout the whole game.
They're not playing any burly power forwards other than Evan Mobley, who you know,
obviously they haven't had a lot of chance to do that. They just
clearly as a team were like, Hey, let's not suck at this anymore,
let's get better at this. Let's choose to care about this. And
they have and it's working, and it's one of the reasons their defense is
so freaking elite, despite the fact that you know they've been missing their best
defender for half the year. Yeah, he's I can't say enough good things
about Jared Allen. And part of that might be compensating for our takes like
two or three years ago only sign that that kind. Sometimes sometimes you got
to overcompensate. That's part of it. Donny Mitchell shooting six his effective field
goal percentage on step back jumpers. I included this in the outline because I
didn't even think it. When I went to look it up, I was
like, it feels like this will be high, and they expect to be
that high. Sixty six effective field goal rate on step back jumpers. Everyone
knows what he's done. As a score. I do think that he has
done a really good job of toggling gears without Darius Garland this year. And
I don't mean that just as when you dig into the passing numbers, they're
different, Like he's passing on more of his drives, his sist rate's going
to be higher, but he's also not like I know, he goes through
stretches where it's the Donovan Mitchell show almost because it has to be like this
is someone who embraces being a part of the larger context as well, And
it feels like he's actually done that just as much, if not more,
without Darius Garland. And so just curious about your thoughts on whether that's an
accurate observation, whether you feel the same way, or what's impressed you the
most about him during this stretch. Well, frankly, I was a little
disappointed with the way the season started for both Donovan and Darius. I just
didn't think they were playing particularly well. To go, I thought they were
doing like I was listening to National podcast going it's just more hitting my turn
year urn. I was like, they weren't doing that last year, They're
just doing it now. And I don't know why. There wasn't that synergy
for whatever reason. And I just, frankly, I didn't think he was
playing crazy selflessly, Like I was really impressed by how selfless he played last
year, and I just didn't I wasn't seeing it. I felt like maybe
it was maybe he was just trying to take maybe he was just pressing.
I'm not sure what it is, but I wasn't seeing him play the kind
of ball I thought he could play. And I feel like over the last
month or two he's been playing his best basketball, perhaps of his career.
Without Darius, you would think any offense who has a first unit led by
Donovan Mitchell as the only ball handler and a second unit led by Kris Lavert
as the only ball handler, you would think that would be a little bit
of a you know, iso Joe Hawk's esque offense right where it's like,
hey, you might be able to muster a good offense. Sure, that's
nice, but like, you're not gonna be a ball movement offense. You're
not gonna be a you know, it's it's not gonna feel like the Spurs.
It's gonna feel very like you're just gonna be efficient by not turning the
ball over and just always getting a shot up. The Cavs over the since
December fifteenth, are first in the league in passes per game, second in
the league in potential assists per game, and fourth in the league in points
generated off of a sisper game. And I feel like that is purely Donovan
Mitchell setting the tone. You know, I think no one has seemed to
enjoy Sam Merrill's renaissance quite like Donovan. He is hunting for him for a
handoff action guard guard screens, finding him in semi transition as a trailer,
Like he is really really looking to build up his teammates in a way that
I just don't know if he's ever been at this level as a playmaker.
You know, I've always considered him a very functional playmaker. You run a
spread, pick and roll, he gets into the teeth of the defense.
If someone slides down, he passes to the corner. If they don't,
he shoots, you know, And it feels like he's doing a lot more
orchestrating and passing guys open, and you know, making the skip pass to
the opposite corner some really audacious driving kicks. In terms of both the angles
He's generating and the zip he's putting on the ball on the way out.
He's his playmaking has been on another level. And then defensively, he's never
going to be a great ISO defender. I just think the way he plays
angles are not great, But the closeouts have been really, really good.
He has that low center of gravity and it really helps him on those closeouts
where he can fly at the ball but still shop his feet and not get
blown by. And the rest of the Cavs defenders, you know, Dean
Wade and Isaaca Kor, they're not big steels guys, that's not really their
brand. They are crazy fundamental and they just they just keep guys in front
of them and make them take hard shots. Donovan's been playing a lot of
free safety and he is kind of the chaos engine on the defensive end of
the floor for them. He's the one that's just you know, jumping passing
lanes and going for pick sixes. And that's a really important thing. You
know, Like there's a lot of fundament because fundamental defense gets beaten a lot
in the league because guys are so stinking good. So it's the rules defense
doesn't get played. That's why Carr, come on, So no, it's
I forgot it wasn't. It's because no one tries on defense. No,
like fundamental defense gets speeding a lot. So you need that chaos engine every
now and again just to muck things up and get teams off their rhythm and
make them think about it. Frankly, you know you you need you know,
some of these hyper aggressive defenses will mess you up just by making you
think about, you know, a lazy pass every now and again. And
I just think he's done really, really well on both sides of the floor.
He it really hasn't been his most efficient as a scorer during the stretch.
It just hasn't mattered because the everything, because every other part has been
so darn good. Yeah, he's like shooting sub thirty two percent on catch
and shoot threes during the stretch, which is just like those are the looks
that you expect Don with Midgell to shoot a pretty high clip on. I'm
wondering if we could, in part because we are pressed for time overallf we
can run through the others very quickly and you can talk about what's most impressed
you or we should be monitoring with them moving forward. So are you ready?
I included them. The alphabet's tough for me, but they're an alphabetical
order. I'm not ranking these players in terms of importance for anyone who cares.
So we begin with cars Lavert. Kris has been really, really good.
You can see the times where he is overextended as the team's de facto
backup point guard with Ricky Rubio's retirement in Ty Jerome's long term ankle injury that
he unfortunately just had to have surgery on because it's just not healing. He
kind of needs to be in that role though, because they got to play
Sam Merril. Merril has been so good that he kind of needs to be
the tenth man in their rotation, and that means that you don't have room
for a backup point guard. So you feel that every now and again,
he's just he's just as a hot and cold player, you know, when
the jumpers falling, he feels really really really deadly and like a crazy luxury.
And when he's getting to the teeth and doing driving kicks, which he's
always been a better driving kick guy than people understand. Yeah, back to
the time in Brooklyn, like that was just the thing. Yeah, So
so he's a he's a very solid playmaker for a bench guard, you know.
Uh, and then he really has been competing on the defensive end.
Sometimes he just space cadets a little bit and he'll he'll kind of, uh,
you know, he'll play an angle wrong or or not or you know,
uh, someone will pre rotate and he doesn't go get that guy's guy,
you know, things like that. But overall, been really happy with
Kris, and like you know, it's it's hard to ask more of them
than what they've asked of him. Yeah, his and I do think you
mentioned it the probing, Like he's really jacked that up on a permittent basis
during this stretch. So that's been huge for them. Next up on the
list is everyone's been waiting for this sam Merril fire off the takes. I
mean, he's just get him in the three point contest for stuff. I
mean, he's just been He's really added something to this team. And I've
already kind of talked about his three point rate, which is unbelievably elite.
But he's also defending well. His playmaking has been good. When guys run
him off the line, is he's got he's starting to get that querver level
respect where other guys are getting wide open layups because people are so panicked about
him, you know, like like Donovan Mitchell ran past him in semi transition
and kind of faked into a dribble handoff and then just waltzed in for a
layup just a few games ago. And it's like, because both guys went
to Meryl, Like, you know, those kind of players are are truly
valuable for you, especially in the regular season, and he's done enough on
the other end to be out there. He leads the team in charges drawn
even though he's really not in the rotation that long, and I've just been
super pleased with him. He's been amazing. And also, this is a
spot where you have to give a little credit to the front office because when
I've said this a lot, when you go all in on any trade,
whoever it may be, and you spend a lot of pit capital, the
onus becomes goes to the front office to be like, Okay, you got
to go find diamonds in the rough because the traditional way of finding role players,
aka the draft, is not going to be available to you. So
finding a guy like Sam Merrill is really really important. And you got to
be geeked to hear the Caps George Niang And why is it his secondary rim
protection? You know, George started out, he had a really rough start
to the year. Yeah, that signing wasn't looking that hot at the beginning
of the season. It was looking back, uh, because he was shooting
like twenty eight percent from three, a guy who has been the most reliable
forty probably in the entire NBA. I think he had a here's my pet
theory. It's completely unsubstantiated aggregator alert. Okay, there we go. I
My theory is that playing next to Joel Embiid with his archetype changed the way
he moved in an offense, because Joel Embiid's one of the few players in
the league who generates an advantage and triggers a defensive help before you've done anything,
Like he just gets a catch and guys how to start moving, you
know, playing on one leg as we saw against yeah the Warriors on Yeah,
no kidding, So George could just could plant himself in the corner and
just wait for the ball to get to him. Uh. You know,
with this team, he's had to move a little bit more. Uh,
kept you know, shoot off of relocations and things like that, so I
think it took him a second to find his stride and leaning to a lot
of like these weird for you know, dribble drives to the hoop that were
not going well. You know, it was getting and it's just hard for
him, with his body type to an athleticism to guard. So if he
wasn't scoring, he certainly wasn't gonna be a great defender, and it wasn't
going well. As of late, though, I think he's really found a
rhythm. He's shooting better, but more importantly he is just he's making the
right reads. He's in the right parts of the floor, on both sides
of the floor. His you know, it's not a particularly bulky team,
and when he gets to guard guys who aren't blazing fast, you know,
like he's done well against the Julius Randalls of the world, even did well
on Kawhi on a few switches in their game against the Clippers. So I've
been really pleased with George and uh he was someone I really wanted them to
sign. I thought I had some egg on my face, but it has
been ticking back up. Let's just say Isaac perhaps the most underrated passer in
transition in the League of Korro. He has been. He is their best
trans player UH and as a result, he's also their best foul drawer.
UH. He leads the team in fre throw rate. And I've been really
really impressed with Isaac and the jumpers. Will I think always be kind of
a work in progress. I don't know if it's ever it's gonna be reliable.
I mean, the numbers look good, the you know, on the
eye test doesn't always look good. You know, you can kind of tell
the second that leaves his hand if if you got enough you know, if
he snaffed the wrist well enough, and if you got enough arc on it.
What I don't think I understood because Justin and I have obviously spent a
lot of time the last couple of years just talking about all the ways we
could see Isaac getting better. Justin has spent a lot of time with the
past couple years selling me on I score or I've been I've been a pretty
avid critic of him, but Justin has been there Pedlin his stock. That's
what he Justin loves him and I do too. But one thing that you
know, for all the times we've talked about, oh, he can do
this, he can do this, he can do this, he can get
better at this, one thing we haven't spent any time talking about is how
if he would get better on defense. And he's taken another leap defensively this
year. He is not fouling and he is destroying top level guards. Dame
Lillard's like nine for like thirty against him this year. He James Harden had
like four points through three quarters against the Clippers. He is I think in
that n ninety ninth percentile among perimeter defenders, especially on guards, and it's
made him kind of indispensable. You know, they have all these guys that
they have to play, and you know, minutes are a finite resource,
so that's scary. But yeah, I mean, I just think he's been
so freaking impressive and the way he's guarding is has gone up another notch.
And you know, I posted a montage of of Dame trying to get the
same foul call and like six straight possessions against him, and Isaac was just
chest to chest with him the whole way. It was. It was unbelievable,
So very very impressed with Isaac, even if the jumper hasn't felt that
much better. We had on this next player. We had a question in
one of our mail bags a few weeks back from a Discord member, and
so I ended up doing a ten minute breakdown on Craig Porter Junior. It's
not something I had on my twenty three to twenty four NBA season podcasting bingo
card. What can you what can you say about him? Yet another diamond
in the rough? You know, you everyone everyone after he is an early
season burst, were like, how does this guy go on draft? And
it's like, well, he's twenty three and small and not really a shooter.
Like that's that's a pretty unusual profile. But like again, you have
to find diamonds in the rough if you're in you know, a Cavs organization
that only had one late second round pick in the draft, and I think
they found one in CPJ. His athleticism is just off the charts. He's
got such bounce, he's quick off his feet, he's got crazy fast hands.
He led his college team in blocks, which is ridiculous one and when
I saw that, I immediately went and checked out his wingspan. He has
a very normal wingspan. He's not exceptionally long either. It's not like one
of these guys who six to one but with a six to eight wingspan.
It's like a normal I don't remember exactly what it was, but it wasn't
exceptional. He just has elite timing and he just gets up off his feet
really fast. He's one of those kind of you know, like Zach Levine,
like the first time we watched him, how he just kind of levitates
in the air. You know, he doesn't have a huge load up to
get up. He has that really great kickcraft, really great read in the
pick and roll, not to go full moneyball meme. But his defect is
he can't shoot. He doesn't want He does not want to take threes.
He is not interested in taking threes, and even though he's made some,
when he misses, it's one of those things where it's like, oh,
that's why you didn't want to shoot. And though he's like a water wiggy
from the in between where it's like he can't really figure out what he's going
to do or like cover him there, So that helps a little bit.
I have no idea what I just did with their fireworks. Going off of
my background, I'll fix. Are you on Mac? Yeah, it's a
new it's a new Mac camera feature. It's so weird that's I'm not even
using my Mac camera right now. This is annoying as hell. Well,
Craig Porter Junior got fireworks. Yes, he's a fireworks. He is.
He is the embodiment of fireworks. But I mean he's out of the rotation
right now. Some people are not super thrilled with that. I totally understand.
H JAB can only play so many guys, and I do think the
jumper is a limit when he's not getting to be on ball, and like
when the team's fully healthy, he's just not gonna get to be on ball.
But his fearlessness and coolness, I mean, it's clear. There's a
reason you can tell he's twenty three. You know, he's played a lot
of basketball, and he is much more comfortable than a lot of guys in
his position would be in some of these spots. I mean he went straight
into Joelle and b Chest for a go ahead layup in overtime earlier in the
year. I mean, you can't get much better than that in terms of
fearlessness. So I think he's on a two way right now if he ends
the year on a two way, I'll be stunned. Yeah, because they
have roster spots open too, and just given the injuries they've dealt with,
it would be weird if they didn't convert him. Yeah, I think they're
just playing it slow in the meantime while they get through the deadline and things
like that. I think they are right up against the tax. I think
they're like two and a half two point seven million, so they might.
I think they're trying to hold that spot just in case like a crazy buyout
opportunity comes by after the deadline. That's my guess. At least they also
have like if they could compensate someone to take on TDD Jerome, they could
you know, get some more we go rum under the tax as well.
Yes, yeah, there's plenty of roads. I just don't think. I
don't think they want to count their chickens before they hatch because like, why
would you. He's on you know, he has eligibility left for the regular
season on his two way, although I don't think he spent a single game
in the G League, but he's you know, but like, while they
have it, I just think they're in no hurry. You know, they
signed Pete Nance to attend Day just to you know, do him a solid
I think, and use that because you have to have you can't leave two
roster spots open for I think it's like past fourteen days. I forget the
window. But I kind of suspect they'll do the same and get through the
deadline and then you know, make finalize their roster for the postseason. Max
Streus Streus has just been really fun. You know, he's a guy who
isn't shooting well and you know a lot of smug heat twitters were like,
ah, see see what we said, and I'm like, I don't know
what you're talking about. He's still really freaking helpful, Like he's guarding at
a high level. His movement and gravity really do a lot for this team.
His playmaking has been really good. He's averaging a career high and assists,
Like early in the year he was averaging four or five assists a game,
which he's never been that kind of Again, he's just a play finisher
for Miami. So, you know, really great chemistry with Evan Mobley that
I'm eager to see him rediscover now that Mobley's back. He was. He's
been the plus minus god for these guys throughout the year and he's earned every
bit of it. And to wrap this up, Dean put the word out
that he's back up Wade. Dean's been great, man, And like,
I think if jb ends up deciding to trim down the road, he's never
been a ten man rotation guy in his entire coaching career, and he played
He's played in ten tonight against the Pistons, and man, he's got a
hard choice to make because if he does end up going down to nine,
he probably is going to have to choose between two of Sam Merril, Dean
Wade, and George Niang. And I don't know who he should pick because
Dean has been so good, and you know, I think Dean has kind
of been the inverse of George, where the defense is so excellent but he
just disappears, And George the defense is sketchy, but the offense in the
spacing is always there, And like, if you could just meld those two
together, you'd probably have one of the best, you know, role playing
four men in the league. But like Dean at his best is as helpful
as any role player on the Caps it's just that finding that consistency. He's
not been a consistent three point shooter in his career. He goes to stretches
where he's unbelievable, and he'll go through stretches where he'll go ten games and
take you know, twenty six threes, Like it's just not enough if you're
going to be a medium to high minutes player. But the defense for him
has been as good, if not better, or as good as Isaac except
guarding bigger guys. He is their best option against big wings, guys like
Jason Tate, Kawhi Leonards of the world. And he's taken on that challenge
every time, and I've just been really really impressed by him. You kind
of touched on this already, though, So when we're looking at a full
strength, even playoff type rotation, you think it ends up being Dean Wade
and Sam Merrill is like the most important of them, and we know Kris
Lburtch is going to be in there, like of these guys that we've mentioned
those, do you think those end up being the most prominent factors? I
don't know yet, to be honest, And like what I've what I've described
is that I think the Cavaliers. This last year, JB had maybe five
and a half guys he trusted, which is pretty tough, you know,
because Isaac was hurt. You know, he's missed the month leading up to
the playoffs and was questionable for Game one. Not a lot of people remember
that Dean Wade literally couldn't lift his arms above his shoulders because he was so
hurt. Yeah, and you know he quick clearly couldn't play and couldn't help.
This year, JB has a lot more guys to play. So what
I've been describing is they've got great pumpk insurance. Like every postseason series,
one of your role players is going to turn into a pumpkin. It' see
either like either the moment's too big for him, it's a tough matchup,
their jumper just isn't going whatever it may be. Like, That's why they're
role players. You can't always count on them. So I think that they
have unbelievable pumpkin insurance at every single position. You know, if if George
is the first guy in a playoff rotation and he's just getting run off the
floor on the other end and he's getting attacked, okay, maybe you turn
to Dean. If if the two big lineup is just the spacing isn't working
and you're not getting enough points, Okay, then Jarrett maybe goes down to
twenty to twenty four minutes from his normal thirty and you play more George and
Dean. If Kris is spacing out and the jumper isn't hidden, okay,
Sam, you're up like they have a lot of If the starting lineup isn't
defending well enough at the point of attack, okay, Isac, We're going
to give you more minutes. Like I just feel like for all the criticism
of JB. Bickerstaff in that postseason series, and like there were things I
took issue with. Don't get me wrong, I had my own criticisms and
thoughts. I don't think enough people have acknowledge, like I just do only
add that many levers to pull with that with a post consolidation trade, a
roster that you know, they made the Donovan Mitchell trade at the end of
the off season. A lot of people don't remember that it was like pretty
close to media deck, like all the other moves had been made, so
like they didn't have a roster that was like made for what they had become.
I feel like this roster is much closer to that. One thing that
I've said a lot and was my goal for the off season was the role
player. The fit in the depth were so rough and they had so few
styles they could play that I don't think I could even evaluate the core four
guys because it's like, Okay, is the starting line, did the two
big thing that work on offense? Or was Isaac o'coro's man always coming down
and tagging because they weren't guarding him? You know, like like does Jarrett
really not be able to work against the short role or did or was Danny
Green or seventh man like you know, like you know, coming off of
destroyed knee. Like so I wanted from this roster to and from this front
office to build a roster that allowed me to properly evaluate the core guy the
core four guys at an individual level and they're fit together long term. And
I think this roster has that because they should. They should be able to
be chameleons, they should be able to play a lot of different styles.
I don't know how, I don't know if how many of those styles are
eight pluses and like they might run into that against some teams that just have
certain styles that they're like, we're killers with this and you can't do anything
about it. Like I do see that as a potential, but like they
can at least be a BB plus playing like seven different ways, and that's
that's a big when I think, and you've touched on this a little bit.
Part of the downside of this run is that it's turned the discourse into,
well, the counts are just better off with one big or the donald
they've lose to Detroit tonight, the discourse is gonna be a running wild Damn
what are we like? What will you add? So there's two parts.
I think there's legitimate concerns to have about this team on offense, and they
might have addressed it with some of the players that are there because you mentioned
the Isaaca Korro stuff. Now having Max Struce there or Sam Merrill, that's
gonna be different about how they can defend the two big lineups. We just
haven't been able to see enough of it. So one, I think we
can all agree that level heads the discourse there is just premature, Like let's
just revisit it after this playoff run. If everyone's actually healthy and see what
happens. But what will you actually be watching for or what are you maybe
actually concerned about as you're looking at these four now coming back together and playing
together for what hopefully will be an actual sample size. I think there's really
only one thing that is really appropriate to angst about. And maybe it's just
because it's the one thing I'm angsting about, So I'm giving myself more leeway
than the other angsters out there in the world. But I do worry about
their point of attack defense. This was my concern the second day sign Strews,
which is like, Okay, you now have three volume three point shooters
to help booie the offense, because it doesn't really matter if Evan and jareded
don't shoot if the other three are getting up like twenty seven threes between the
three of them, which I think they can do. Like those three should
be high volume three point shooters, all three of them. However, we
looked at you know, I praised their rebound rate earlier since those guys went
down, and I do think part of it is that Jared Allen and Evan
Mobley were having to clean up a lot of bs to start the year on
that side of the ball, they were having to go out, don't come
up and help because guys were getting blown by. Because Darius can be as
fundamental as he wants, he's still a small guy and Donovan is never going
to be an elite on ball defenders. So it's like, all right,
Max, you're gonna be our our wing stopper. That's a little scary.
You're gonna be who we throw on Trey Young, you know. So,
like it's kind of what I felt this season represented. And maybe that'll change
now that they've had to learn all these hard lessons with these injuries. But
I was most interested in like they kind of took the too big and the
too small thing to their logical extremes, Like if we're gonna have two bigs
that don't shoot, then our top then our other three guys got to shoot
the crap out of the ball, and they got to shoot it a lot.
And then on the defensive end, if we're gonna if and if we're
gonna play these two bigs that can't shoot, they got to be able to
clean up everything that's that that is our that's gonna be our belief system.
And we saw Utah tried to do it with one person with Rudy and like
Boyan Bgdanovitch as the four, Like they were like that was clearly that didn't
work, that was too too far in the spectrum. But what if we
had to elite defenders that can be in charge of cleaning up for the other
three. So that I feel like was kind of their gamble. The front
office is gamble this summer and like we just haven't had enough time to see
how it goes. It's funny their defense has actually been good. It's their
offense that has been a lot worse than what it was with Isaaclecorro at the
three for that five man unit. So I would presume, you know,
call me crazy, but I think Max Struz should help your off your starting
five's offense and could part of inject. But it's like they've were clearly like
they've experimented with stuff with Evan Mobley and like that could just be part of
that learning curve as well. And how many how many games does those five
play together? Like ten, this is their twealth game of special Year tonight,
and not a ton of minutes either, So like they just haven't gotten
a chance to do that experiment. But I still think that is the core
of their experiment because like justin my co host will write like he's been getting
a little grumpy with how much people are focusing on the starting five. Like
he's like, and he's right, if you're worried about the two those four
together. Last year, by the way, they had like an offensive rating
that was like almost one twenty twenty two. Yeah. So but like what
he would say is like, if you're worried about two bigs, congratulations,
they only do that together sixteen minutes a game. You're four out the other
thirty two. So, like there is a bit of over indexing on who
starts and and how those lineups work. But I do, at a fundamental
level believe your best five has got to be a killer. Like you look
at every great team of the in the history of the league, their best
five has been really freaking good. So I do think it matters, even
though it might be over indexed on, And like, I want to see
how that experiment goes. Turns out, Uh, not a great start against
the Pistons, who have one hundred and eighteen points, but the Cavs looks
like they might get out of it so but but yeah, like it's one
of those things I'm just I find it super fascinating and for all the things
I feel like I didn't get to learn last year, hopefully now that the
team's healthy, I feel like I'm gonna get to learn a lot about the
limits of what these guys can do. Yeah, I tend to be concerned
about Darius Darlin's three point volume. There's definitely just the way brother, They're
definitely the way defenses can guard them with the two bigs. I think Jared
Allen, by the way, doesn't receive enough credit for like his spatial awareness
on and off the ball when playing with Evan Mobley, that'll help. And
it comes back to you mentioned the levers to pull when you look at who
their most you fifth player was last year, Like aside from Mosco Coro,
it was they had Jeddy Osmon or Cowis Lavert. Now it's like, well,
if you have a healthy Dean Wade to added that equation, or just
two new players in Max Drews and Sam Merrill, like it changes the dynamics
of what you can do. I still oltimly think like a lot of it
might come down to Evan Mobley's own offensive development. It feels like to me,
he goes through extended stretches of just indecision, and I'd like to see
him be more decisive and make quicker decisions, especially when he's moving inside inside
the arc, And that feels like it could be a big turning point in
the regular season. By the way, I just think this team at hell,
WHI always want a shit ton of games. Yep, it's the playoffs
where I think that is why I hotter the most. I think Evan is
cursed by too many choices, you know, Like it's one of those things
where he's so he can do a little bit of everything. And like you
know, I talked when you ask why this stretch has been so good,
and I talk about how everything's been kind of simple. Everyone is their job,
Evan. Nothing about Evan's game is crazy simple, you know. Like
part of what makes him a special prospect is the passing, the decision making,
the ball handling, the perspective touch and jump shooting which isn't quite there
yet. So I feel like Evan is at his best when he does just
get to be decisive. I just think, sometimes in fairness to him,
if we want him to experiment with growing his game and doing all the things
we wanted to do. Then we might have to be okay with some indecision
and to watch his processor work. You know, it's like when you open
up a laptop and you like you've got too many programs open. You start
hearing that were like, that's what I see when Evan is having to think
too much. But like that part of me wonder is like, maybe we'll
all feel better if he just only does decisive things. But like, is
that actually the best serve pace development? I'm not sure that's a fair point.
I'll fold these two last topics into one. The trade deadline is coming
up. They are probably the team in the league that's the least likely to
do anything significant just because so many of their keys guys have been injured.
They're so deep. Now, is there like a type of player you would
like to see them target? And I'll also fold this into if you need
to just get off your chest as to why, like the Donovan Mitchell trade
talk is so stupid at this moment, and does there ever come a point
is it like, let's see, do we have to revisit this depending on
how the postseason ends, and that's when the level of concern around Donovan Mitchell's
future can rise, or is it very much sort of right now, not
within the organization or within the fan base that it's just not a high level
of concern moving forward. It's these national people that are just like drooling over
the idea of more player movement. Well, I'll knock at the Donnie stuff
quickly, Like I do think it's gonna it's gonna linger. You know,
it's gonna be a national story because he's kind of the most eligible bachelor on
the perspective market right now, and like you know, of course Cleveland just
exists to feed these other more glamorous places. But on a more serious note,
like I just see you see all these perspective buyers. The Knicks go
trade their assets for og the Heat go trade some assets for Terry Rogier.
Like it feels like all the places that you kind of hear link to him
just kind of aren't that palatable of options, or they're they're looking in other
places. So with the team playing as well as they are and with some
of these options drying up, like I just I don't think anyone's interested in
it, And I'm glad. I have more fun when we actually get to
talk about what we're seeing on the court, And what we're seeing on the
court is a crazy bought end dude who is working really really hard, Like
you know that's knowing about all this though? Is the reporting is we're reporting
respective He's never attached to Will Donovan Mitchell wants this. It's just Miami or
New York. And I probably disagree with you on the assets New York has
available. I think the bigger thing is just like Donno Mitchell and Jalen Brunson,
like, what is the defense of that? I don't think the Knicks
want to do that, So, you know, ultimately I think he,
like I don't think Donovan is the kind of guy who would who's going to
request a trade like I. You know, as far as I know,
he still hasn't ever admitted to asking out of Utah. I just think he
really cares about his image and cares about how he is represented in like within
his local market. And I think that's awesome. By the way, I
think that's exactly what players should do. Like if we're all gonna ask to
buy into this noble lie and we're all rooting for laundry, Like, we
might as well play the part, you know, we might as well play
the part. So like, if he cares about about, you know,
being a good representative of the Cavaliers and representative of the place he's playing,
that's freaking awesome to be to me. At least, you know, he
goes to like local high school games just to support the local scene and things
like that. Very quickly. People should want this because they should want teams
like the Cavaliers to make the aggressive play that they did for Dono Midgell in
the first place, so that when we're talking about these players actually being available,
it's not just the Knicks Lakers heat rint cycle repeat. Yeah, Like,
what a nice thing it is that this has happened. So I've really
been pleased with him and what you know, I feel like with a player
like that, you can just see by watching the game, and you see
a guy who's crazy invested right now and working really really hard of recruited guys
in the offseason. So if he leaves, he leaves. But I'm not
in any hurry to make any moves with regards to the rest of the trade
deadline. I think you're spot on, man, they have a weird cocktail
of too many helpful guys that aren't like crazy young aka crazy valuable around the
league, and they don't have any really significant draft assets, so it's like
the places that they could upgrade or that like archetypes that they could looked up
grade, like I you know, an example that puts around caps Twitter a
lot is Dory in Phinney Smith. He's kind of he kind of is that
Dean Wade George Nang mashup of a guy who guards well but also shoots a
lot of threes and you know, has been trusted to do so in big
moments. So the Calves don't have the ability to get him because you know,
the Nets would want a couple first, but let's say they could.
Is he so much better than the best version of Dean Wade and George Niang
that you'd be one to include one of those guys and a guy like Karris
Lavert and lose all that blake playmaking and ball handling, like you're just kind
of having to do Like they're in a spot where they probably need to do
like a three for one, but none of their three are like guys that
teams are like salivating over even though I'm sure no team would be like,
shit, we got Dean Wade. That sucks. No, they like everyone
like having Dean Wade. But he's not. Like you're not winning a press
release by trading for Dean Wade. Yeah, So, like, I just
I don't see. I feel like almost every player on the Cabs right now
their value to the Caves outpaces their value on the open market. Okay,
And if that's the case, I just don't see the move. And it's
not I'm like any other fan. I love trades. They're super fun.
I'm on the trade machine all the time. I don't think I've ever been
on a in a deadline this close to the deadline. I don't think I've
ever opened the trade trade machine less because I just I can't figure out something
that would even interest me, let alone like be a smart trade for two
teams. Yeah, you need to get probably a seventh guy, is what
it is. And that's hard to do. Like you know, oh,
he's our seventh best player in the playoffs, and that's just that's really hard
to do when you have such minimal assets. And then, as you mentioned,
when the players that are in house mean more to you or more valuable
to you than they're going to be on the outside market. I have kept
you six minutes longer than I said I would. Do you have anything else
that you think that I missed or that you to get off your chest before
I let you skidatt Oh, I've been doing quite a few long monologues,
so if anyone's kept me long, it's me, buddy, And no,
I think we do. I think we've tackled it all. So are you
able just to tell our listeners where they can find you and all the fantastic
work that you do if they're not following you already. Yeah. Absolutely.
You can follow our podcast at Chase Down pod and all of our shows are
live on the official Cavaliers YouTube channel, So just go over to that page,
hit U subscribe and you'll see us live after not most games, but
you know about half of them. We go twice a week, so we
love doing postgame stuff. It's really fun and I hope you guys join us
there. The link to where you can subscribe to the Chase Down podcast will
be in the podcast and YouTube description. Thank you so much for your time,
Carter. I will past you again in the future. And fully expect
you to say no that time. No no no, it's only if my
children ruin it. Thank you so much man, I'll talk to you so
good. Thank you