This is a studio both and production. Did he say he had buried them
or he was buried? Okay, you're talking about the prior and did he
tell you whether he had buried them or not? What was your reaction to
him being and did you know where he was, like what state he was
in when he called you? And where would you think he might bury guns
in Texas? Well? I guess I'm trying to get what was your reaction?
You know, when someone says I'm going to go bury my guns and
I'm somewhere in Texas and he doesn't live there. WHOA, this is true
crime bullshit. I'm your host, Josh Hallmark, and this is a serialized
story of Israel Keys. In April twenty ninth, twenty twelve interview with Kim,
the FBI asked her about a call she received from Israel while he was
in Texas, specifically the call she received from Israel while he was allegedly stuck
in the mud in Cleeburn. Here's what she said. I remember him calling
me the night he got stuck in the mud and couldn't make his flight.
Like I definitely definitely talked to him that night. He called and said that
he was stuck in the mud, and he didn't have money for gas,
and he his credit cards weren't working, and that he had to call his
family to come pick him up and bring him money for gas or something so
and that he, you know, was gonna have to change his ticket.
They then go on to ask whether he told her where he was or what
he was doing when he got stuck in the mud, and she says,
somewhat non shalantley, that he was burying his guns. He told you that,
mm hmm. He always, you know, has done that. He's
always done that. M h What does that mean? When he had guns
in his property in New York, he had them buried there because the property
got vandalized and stuff. Did he tell you this or did you see it?
He told me, I never saw it. He said that when he
had gone back, it had been really vandalized, so he just buried them
so they'd be there so he could get them back. He said he did
that a long time ago, and he said he'd done that before he ever
even left New York, upstate New York. As Kim is relaying this,
you can tell she's starting to realize how ridiculous it sounds. At one point
she even kind of laughs at how preposterous it all is. And while there's
a lot to unpack regarding that phone call from Texas, for now, we're
going to focus on upstate New York. Keys was always a bit cagy and
inconsistent when discussing his constable house. In some interviews, he tells the FBI
that he went to it every time he was in the Northeast, which by
our count is at the very least nine times in twelve years, but in
other interviews he minimizes the time that he's spent there. And then this is
a photo from the firepit area behind the house. Oh yeah, it's all
right, yeah, because I from Mandarin and those are some beads from the
necklace. Huh yeah. I haven't burned anything that fit for a long time.
So was there ever a time that you burned anything of significance in that
firepit? No, not a grace, anything that crimes, possibly, but
nothing nothing like this. No, this is all ancient, all right.
I mean I haven't really spent much time there ever since that was in an
army. So this this isn't going to be a rank to somebody that we
need to be worried about, though, and whenever keys gets cagy or inconsistent,
it's worth looking into. Earlier this year, we were able to obtain
more than fifty photos from the constable property, interiors, exteriors, outbuildings,
the woods, and those photos tell a lot of stories. One of the
most important of those stories is that this property has not been sealed off nor
protected from the world. In many ways, most of the outbuildings have completely
caved in on themselves. The foyer is flooded, the stairwell has entirely detached
from the ground floor. There are multiple holes in the roof, exposing the
interior of the house to the elements. Weeds have swallowed much of the property,
but worse than that, it's been overrun by weeds of a different kind
people. There is graffiti throughout the house, windows have been broken. Who
knows what has been taken. Even on our most recent visit, there were
multiple tracks of footprints in the fresh snow what appeared to be tire tracks on
the property. This incredibly important crime scene has not been preserved, and what's
even worse, people appear to have been intentionally tampering with it. What stood
out the most to me were the shoes. There were shoes all throughout the
house, all women's shoes. Most appeared to be missing their pears, which
of course made us think of Gene Hyatt's lone shoe recovered from boiler Bay.
But many of the shoes were clearly placed there to look like evidence. One
shoe left near the crawl space was manufactured sometime between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty
one, and I guess the upside to that is at least this asshole was
a stupid asshole. But many of the shoes have clearly been there for a
very long time. A single flip flop wedged behind a bathroom door, a
pair of women's work shoes a brand that went defunct in two thousand and four,
a single red women's rain boot, a single woman's ice skate dodged beneath
a caved in roof in one of the outbuildings, a pair of women's roller
skates next to it. Beyond the shoes, the house is full of other
signs of life and death. Nail polish newspapers from two thousand four, in
two thousand six, rubber gloves, VisQueen motor oil, draino pliers with a
small bone wedged into them, and in the woods behind the house, multiple
mattresses and box springs scattered about, a home depot, bucket full of what
Jordan believes to be pipe bombs or at the very least pipe bomb making materials,
an odd makeshift frame standing about five feet tall by four feet wide and
wrapped with barbed wire, and most eerie of all amongst all this a rusted
old swing set. There are unfortunately no photos of the burn pit that was
mentioned by Keys and the FBI, nor are there any deeper into the woods
behind his house. But what we've seen, particularly with the shoes, has
given us more to investigate and possibly connect Keys, or at least as property
to missing people. We've scoured Charlie Project and NamUs looking for people who were
last seen wearing shoes that could match any of these, and we've sent the
photos to doctor Cuncle to see if perhaps any of them, specifically the women's
work shoes could have belonged to Susie Lyle. True Crime Bullshit is sponsored by
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That's better help h elp dot com slash tcb. The photos from the constable
house also paint a grim picture of what kind of activity could have taken place
there. A concrete and cinderblock addition had bars bolted over the windows. A
crawl space never mentioned in the FBI search of the property was filled with rolls
of VisQueen wrap. An outhouse on the property is riddled with bullet holes,
more than a dozen shot through two different walls. It's somehow both fathomless and
effortless to imagine what Keys was doing on this isolated property. My other serial
killer hero, I guess not really even irrelevant because it was so long ago.
Was she was pretty much a genius. But back in his day,
it was pretty easy to be a genius, cause nobody really expected stuff like
that back then, so you got away with it for a long time,
and no technology really to have to outsmart. Right back then, you could
hire other people to build dungeons for you, and nobody would even think twice
about it. I'm like, oh, like I wants a dungeon well,
anything I built like that nowadays I kind of have to do myself. That
kind of warrants an obvious follow up question of do you have a dungeon?
Have you ever built anything like that? Nah? No, nothing, No,
however, something you would have liked to have though, Oh I had
plenty of plans for'em. It's not really the more my retirement plan.
Your stuff seems to be. The stuff that we know about seems to be
kind of quick in the sense that it happens over a day period of time
or twelve hour period of time or something like that. And again, I've
told you more. We're gonna get into, like push it for specifics on
a lot of this, on this kind of stuff. But were there crimes?
Were you you did keep someone for longer than that? No, No,
it's a few hours plans to and didn't work out, Or did you
purposely kept it short like that for logistics reasons? I'm not getting caught.
Yeah I was. I had plans to. You know, it would have
been nice if I could have done that, but I was never set up
to do it to where it will. It would have been pretty higher risk
if it ever tried to do that again. Keyses, caginess, long pauses,
mutterings, tone and volume changes, the rale of the telltale signs that
he's lying, and when asked if he has a dungeon, his response is
not entirely reassuring, nor adamant. Uh not No. Nothing that elaborate.
Nothing that elaborate does not exactly set one's mind at ease, and it certainly
isn't a no hard stop. There are at least two people, Deborah Feldman
and Susie Lyle. It stands to reason he could have taken back to Constable
if he was willing to drive four and a half hours from Hackensack to Tupper
Lake with Deborah Feldman in his car. Why wouldn't he drive the extra hour
to Constable, where he knew he'd have privacy, time and control over his
environment, Especially considering the more than twenty four hour gap between her disappearance and
when he robbed the bank in Tupper Lake, just two miles from where he
claims to have buried the New York victim's remains, and if keyes was responsible
for Susie Lyle's disappearance, he would have abducted her just three hours from his
cabin at a time where he was inexperienced and more fantasy prone than ever,
and that brings us to Susie and reports we recently received regarding a man or
two men on the Sunny campus in the weeks leading up to and following Susi's
disappearance. A safety report fax to the Sunny Student Affairs office on February twenty
eight, just two days before Susie disappeared, described an attempted assault on a
female student on campus on February twenty fourth, six days before the disappearance.
It reads as follows. The individual pictured above verbally confronted and then ran after
a female student in the area of the Liberty construction site between Dutch and Indian
Quads on Tuesday, February twenty fourth, at approximately nine thirty p m.
The student was not touched nor injured, nor was any weapon displayed. The
individual was driving a large, older, possibly rusted, white station wagon which
may have had fog life heights description white male, medium height, heavy build,
shoulder length, black wavy hair, last seen wearing a black jacket and
possibly black sweatpants. Of the two safety reports, this one is the least
compelling. Keys was six foot two and had a lean, muscular build,
and as far as we can tell through the photos we have, he had
very short hair at this time, and while the sketch in the face looked
a lot like Keys, as a whole, it looked too old to be
Keys. He's drawn with a heavy receding hairline. In the early stages of
jowels. He looks closer to fifty than Keys is twenty. The second safety
report, however, piquked our interest. At approximately one thirty a m.
On March thirty first, a female college student in Beverwick Park, Washington Avenue
between O'Leary and Ontario Streets was thrown to the ground and her breasts were The
assailant fled when the female student kicked him. The victim described her assailant as
a white male, approximately twenty five years old, six feet tall, weighing
one hundred eighty five pounds, brown hair, wearing glasses, a dark shirt
and cut off blue jeans. Beverwick Park is just one block from the U.
S. Army Reserve Center, and Keys was in the midst of getting
his necessary materials and documentation for army recruitment at the time. In fact,
he had just taken his mandatory ged tests the week before. In that same
pile of documentation reports and press releases was a confidential memo from the University police
to the Office of Student Affairs, and it stated the New York Police have
suggested that miss Lyle may have never come back to campus on March second.
Most of the stories you hear about Susie involve her disappearing between the bus and
her dorm. However, in a recent conversation, doctor Cuncle and I agreed
that it makes more sense that Susie would have disappeared from Crossgates Mall before ever
making it on dooor bus back to the campus. The distance between the campus
bus stop and her dorm is incredibly short and crowded. There are several high
rise dorms looking over the space, there's students everywhere and hardly any foliage coverage,
particularly in early spring. While the door that she exited Crossgate's Mall from
is heavily concealed in a dark corner of the mall that's used for deliveries in
employee entry and exit only, it exits into an area concealed by a large
dumpster. And while I've come to believe that that is most likely what happened
that Susie was abducted leaving the mall. I'd never actually seen it. In
writing that the police agreed, and in the past few months we've come across
sightings and reports potentially placing Keys on fourteen different college campuses, in some cases
multiple times by multiple people, in a few of those cases actually living on
or near campus for several weeks at a time, and many of those sightings
line up with attempted abductions on campus or actual disappearances. Starting in nineteen ninety
seven in San Francisco, around the same time that Kristin Mota Ferry disappeared.
Over the past year or so, Kim Kay from the research team has been
pouring over every online comment she can find that mentions sightings of or encounters with
Israel Kis. There are dozens, and through them, two clear patterns have
emerged, hitchhiking and college campuses. The earliest one comes from a news segment
covering his arrest, which was posted to YouTube. One of the first comments
was posted over ten years ago, long before this podcast or any books or
in depth media coverage of Keys. It reads. I had a confrontation with
him at UCSF Parnassus, where the police report filed in nineteen ninety seven.
There. I'm fairly certain it was him. He was young, tall and
thin. I recall a strange name being Israel, who basically instigated a fight,
spitting at me for no reason from a bicycle on the UCSF Medical campus,
saying I hate your type. I knocked him off the bike. We
began to squabble. He pulled out what appeared to be a gun. I
quickly backed up and ran out of the place. Witnesses, however, reported
to UCSF police and they caught him. He was mimicking his hand underneath his
shirt as a gun. Nonetheless, charges were pursued and he began to whine
like a baby, so there would be a record there of the incident.
It was really odd, but the images and documentary remind me so much of
that incident. He was an evil person trying to instigate conflict. I choose
otherwise not to get involved, as I am a very busy person. But
someone may benefit from this information and adding it to a timeline, but have
my lead check to insure its accuracy. UCSF Parnassis Medical School Police, nineteen
ninety seven ish. According to this report and is listed age that would have
been the time around or before his first murder. We filed a FOYA for
this police report in our waiting response. What immediately stood out to me Zo
is that when Kristin Motiferi of the NamUs forty five was last seen, she
told a coworker that she was going to take public transportation to Ocean Beach from
the Crocker Galleria in downtown San Francisco. Depending on where on Ocean Beach she
was going, she would have taken one of two options, the Fulton five
bus, which runs along Golden Gate Park about half a mile from UCSF Parnassus,
or the end Judah, which actually stops at UCSF Parnassus. One other
thing that makes this report stand out is that the name of forty five wouldn't
be released for close to a decade later, so there was nothing publicly linking
Kristin or San Francisco to Keys. However, according to our records, he
was in the Bay Area at least four different times when this occurred. In
or around nineteen ninety seven. Keys would have been about nineteen years old and
could have seamlessly ended in on a college campus According to the timeline, Keyes
would have been living in Mappin at the time, with his parents living in
Defer with all the other kids, so he would have had no real oversight
or accountability. This also would have been around the exact same time as the
Dushoots attack. Interestingly, we've recently learned that Keyes had an uncle who owned
and operated a transitional center in San Francisco in nineteen ninety seven. We're still
gathering information on where exactly that center was and whether Keys would have visited his
uncle there. The next set of college campus sightings are the Sunny Albany sightings
I previously mentioned, along with the Marshall's encounter we all know well after that
would be two encounters ten years apart on or near Nassau Community College on Long
Island. As you'll recall from the previous episode, I mentioned the woman who
believes she met Keys online and then at a Starbucks, an encounter that she
said was either September of two thousand seven or two thousand eight. Well,
in August of nineteen ninety seven, a woman near by believes she was followed
by Israel Keys after leaving a date at one a m. The car followed
her from the Highway off ramp all the way to her apartment. She parked,
but then immediately decided it was unsafe. But before she could pull out
of the parking lot, the man had exited his car and was standing at
the driver's side window of her car. She started screaming and honking the horn.
She tried to drive off, but the man stood in front of her
car, putting his hands on the hood and telling her to get out,
And then she mouthed the words I will run over you, and she began
to slowly push the man out of the way with her car. He finally
stepped aside, and she drove to the closest gas station, where she alerted.
She recalled that the man had left his door open and car running during
the encounter. She described him as being six feet tall, with black hair
and no facial hair. She said he was driving a dark blue sedan with
Massachusetts plates and wearing a sports coat. She called the FBI to report the
incident after seeing a photo of Keys on the news. She believed it was
Keys who confronted her that night, and the Keys family did own the Constable
home at the time of this encounter. However, Keys didn't move in until
October of nineteen ninety seven, but we do know that he did make at
least one trek out to that cabin before moving in. As for the other
Nassau Community College encounter, it's worth noting that had it occurred in September of
two thousand and eight we discussed September of two thousand seven last episode, it
would have happened at around the same time that Kelly Sue Akronic disappeared on September
thirtieth, just three and a half hours away. Last year, we believed
that we could rule Kelly Sue out as a potential Keys victim based on construction
in voices Keys had written. We now know that's not the case. As
we moved away from Nassau Community College and further into time, the encounters got
worse and started to occur in places we all know very well by now.
College campuses we've discussed at length Evergreen State College, Saint Michael's College of Vermont,
Western Washington University, the University of Maine, just to name a few.
But more on that next time. As we've taken a step back to
look at the big picture and take into account all the new information we've gathered,
we've realized more and more that we have to deconstruct everything we thought we
knew about Keys. We have to break the model and then put it all
back together again, because even we've gotten stuck in perceived fact in pieces of
mythology and our own deconstruction of the mythology, and taking Keys at his word,
in our own opinions of who Keys was and what he was and wasn't
capable of. And as it turns out, maybe Keys was more meticulous than
anyone gives him credit for. Meticulous, but human and prone to pattern,
a man who went to great lengths to cover his tracks, who was always
thinking ahead, who lied more than he let on. And the thing about
liars, once you see one, you start to see them all. It's
all got a Birdlet's all gonna bread. What I want to check it fuck
me is as once of my parents and my pastor, nor ship the ship
takes I got the pastors, lady, and the worst. It's all gonna
bread us. GoodWork. This episode was written, researched, edited, and
produced by me Josh Hallmark, with additional research by Kim Kay and Shana Walensky
and research assistants by Michelle Tucker and Jordan Taylor. This episode was made possible
by the following Patreon producers Amelia Hancock, Amy Basel, Anette l Ashfish,
Benjamin Chopathong, Casey Jensen, Richardson, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica,
Ali Hodzik, Gillian Natale, Kathleen's tutor, Kendall Seed, Kimberly Klna,
Lauren F Lindsay Curtis Lindsay Lucifer, Lindley, tuscoff Manolas Bulacus, Nicole
and Dennis Henry, Sarah King, s C. Shelley Brewer, Sherry d
Tuesday Woodworth, Vicky Russell, Zach Ignattowitz, Warren, Beth McNally, John
Comrae, Jordan Taylor, Sarah C Shawna Harden, and Lydia Fiedler. Thank
you to Studio Both Anne's newest Patreon supporter, Elizabeth F Rachel f Aaron A,
Alex M, Michael t, Melissa B, Pam April, Crystal Lin
b, Jennifer Tina d JFK, Danny h J Nolan, Joe m Less
and Misty D. To support the investigation and get ad free episodes, go
to Patreon dot com Slash Studio both and this episode included music by William Healthier
wife Seragei Cheramissinov, Dan Mayo, and a quartos with featured music by Broken
Social Scene Chidio. It's true, I'm bound, Judo. I'll keep it
up you, I'll keep it trust I'm gonna take that, sad sack said,
I shout no go to God. So oh sa sa sa sa sho s s