1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,839 Well, aside from planning and preparation. Within that, I think you first 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,599 need to think about what is it that we're trying to create? Right, 3 00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:09,199 we had that at the beginning, But then how am I going to get 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,759 there? Because you may say to me Mark, I want a quote unquote 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,280 good deal, to which I'm going to say to you, cool story. 6 00:00:16,359 --> 00:00:20,320 So does the other person what does a good deal mean for you? What 7 00:00:20,879 --> 00:00:24,120 constitutes a good deal? So you might say, well, I want to 8 00:00:24,199 --> 00:00:28,239 make more money, I want to reduce risk, I want to improve communication. 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,760 Could be a number of different things you do. But then I would 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,920 say, okay, break those down. What are you going to actually negotiate 11 00:00:34,119 --> 00:00:39,439 into the deal to ensure the successful achievement of those things. You're listening to 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:45,119 Carrie Let's's Financial Survival Network, where you get valuable information you just can't find 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:51,280 anywhere else to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial Survival Network 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,799 now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com and get your free 15 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:06,680 newsletter and gift. Financial Survival Network now more than ever. Ed Welcome. 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,920 You are listening to watching the Financial Survival Network of your host Kerry Lotz. 17 00:01:11,359 --> 00:01:15,079 Well person, you're about to hear from really happy to brain you. It 18 00:01:15,159 --> 00:01:23,359 builds himself as the negotiations Ninja. And your name is Mark or fan Mark 19 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,719 trait to have you on the show. Hey, negotiation. Everything in life 20 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,920 eventually becomes a negotiation, right, it always does, always will. Everything 21 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:38,239 about living day to day is about negotiations. So being that that's the case 22 00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:45,359 of being a good negotiator. Is it about winning or is it about getting 23 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,280 both sides or all sides what they want or getting closer to what they want? 24 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,200 Yeah? Good, good. First question, I'm going to say something 25 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:57,280 controversial. Ridles the hop when win is the biggest lie that's ever been told 26 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,640 in the negotiation world. But so is wood loose because it's built on the 27 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,560 same premise. When when presupposes that both parties can win, that's not possible. 28 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,080 If you've been in the business world in general, you know that to 29 00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:13,120 be true. But even let's just say, for example, that both parties 30 00:02:13,159 --> 00:02:15,080 could win, then you would need to know what the complete value of that 31 00:02:15,159 --> 00:02:20,080 deal is over the lifetime of that deal, which is almost impossible to know 32 00:02:20,439 --> 00:02:23,560 as well. And you've got to know that with complete certainty. And even 33 00:02:23,599 --> 00:02:27,439 if you could know that with complete certainty what the deal is and the value 34 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:30,840 of the deal is over the lifetime of that deal, then you would need 35 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:35,240 to be able to be quote unquote fair with each other a distribution of that 36 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,680 value. But what is fair, really fair, is based on what your 37 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:40,639 perception of what fair is, and it's also based on what my perception of 38 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,719 what fair is. And so we have to come to an agreement on what 39 00:02:44,759 --> 00:02:46,800 fair is. But we can't because it's not objective. It's subjective. And 40 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:50,639 even if we were going to come to an agreement on what fair is, 41 00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:54,240 we would also need to be one hundred percent transparent with each other about the 42 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,759 value and about our own interests and everything that's going on in our business between 43 00:02:59,759 --> 00:03:05,439 each So I would argue that the whole idea is built on faulty ground. 44 00:03:05,479 --> 00:03:07,159 Now, the number one objection I get to this, of course, is 45 00:03:07,159 --> 00:03:10,280 mark that's not what winmen is about. Win win is about how you feel 46 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,759 after the negotiation. It's about if both parties feel like they want Well, 47 00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:16,560 that actually makes less sense to me than the first thing, because if it's 48 00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:21,520 just making you feel good, then I could do that all day. Right, 49 00:03:21,599 --> 00:03:24,560 All I have to do is to emotionally manipulate you during the conversation. 50 00:03:25,039 --> 00:03:29,639 So I think the premise that that is built on is a bit faulty. 51 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:35,360 I would caution people when they think about win when that it's now incumbent upon 52 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:38,520 them to create a win for the counterparty. That puts you in a very 53 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:47,039 dangerous position and opens you up to bad actors who would use your good ideas 54 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:53,199 or your collaborative nature against you in that negotiation. So first, I want 55 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,439 you to think about what it is the value that you're trying to create for 56 00:03:55,479 --> 00:03:59,840 your organization. They obviously want to create value for them, That's why they're 57 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,319 talking to you, right, Otherwise they wouldn't be having a conversation with you. 58 00:04:02,719 --> 00:04:05,840 So what is it that you're trying to get value out of? So 59 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,520 is it a zero sum game? So it's not a zero sum game. 60 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,319 So then the question is, sometimes you can make too good a deal for 61 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:21,000 yourself where it's so bad for the other party that the deal is going to 62 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:27,319 blow up, it's going to fall r So it isn't just about achieving all 63 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:34,480 your objectives at the expense erect of the counterparty. And right, yeah, 64 00:04:34,519 --> 00:04:39,720 I'm not saying that mutually beneficial deals aren't possible, But I'm saying it's not 65 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,120 your job to ensure they get a great win. So let I think the 66 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:49,600 philosophy behind this is very very important philosophically speaking. Don't go into it making 67 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:54,199 it your job to ensure that they get a win. That's their job, 68 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,879 their job to ensure that they get a win or value from the negotiation. 69 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,759 But if you make too good a deal and their value isn't there, that 70 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:09,040 deals can fail. Right, So you don't want to Yes, you want 71 00:05:09,079 --> 00:05:14,839 to pursue your objectives, but within reasonable latenits right? Sure? Can I 72 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,160 counter that with a counter argument? Sure? What do we determined as reasonable? 73 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,560 Is reasonable based on what your perception of what reasonable is? If it 74 00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:27,160 is, what is that based on? Is that based on data or is 75 00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:30,839 that based on fear of rejection? Where most people would now for you, 76 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,519 for example, you may be in a position where you're like, Okay, 77 00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:36,240 I've got forty five years of experience doing this, I know what quote unquote 78 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:42,000 reasonable is. For the vast majority of people that I speak to, reasonable 79 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:48,839 is based on fear of rejection. I would say that reasonable is where both 80 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:54,079 parties gain from the transaction. You might gain more, and that's okay, 81 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,959 but there's a benefit to both sides, Whereas if it's undre reasonable, then 82 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,600 the costs to one party are two great, and it's going to make it 83 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:11,639 the outcome of this deal negative and the deal may never happen as a result. 84 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,920 Yeah, I love where your head's at. What I would caution for 85 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,959 people, though, when they think about this, is be very cautious of 86 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:23,279 how you determine what reasonable is versus what reasonable is it. Because if it's 87 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,519 if it's what you determine as reasonable, is that I get a gate, 88 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,639 or even if either side gets more, that's fine. If all I have 89 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,079 to do at that point to say, well we're gaining on this is unreasonable, 90 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,600 like why am I not getting? Ay? So okay. So, 91 00:06:38,439 --> 00:06:46,399 just like a lawsuit case in court, I assume negotiations are wanted loss on 92 00:06:46,519 --> 00:06:50,160 preparation and often revation alone. Right Yeah, Oh, I mean the vast 93 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,040 majority of the time, most people are winging it, and I think we've 94 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,439 probably got the media to blame for that. I mean, if you watch 95 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,160 any major commercial type V like a Wolf of Wall Street or a Boiler Room 96 00:07:01,399 --> 00:07:09,160 or something like that, you see these amazing salespeople create deals out of seemingly 97 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,680 thin air. The reality is that's not true. It comes with a lot 98 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:19,120 of preparation, right, and preparation. So I think Sun Sou said, 99 00:07:19,959 --> 00:07:24,000 you know, you have to know your enemy, but you need to know 100 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,000 yourself even better than you know your enemy. Yes, amen to Sun Sue. 101 00:07:28,199 --> 00:07:31,079 Correct. And he also said tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. 102 00:07:31,319 --> 00:07:36,000 But most people think that negotiation is all tactics, like how you say 103 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:42,439 the thing, the case of your words, how you inflect on certain things. 104 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,560 Though most of it comes down to the strategy and preparation that you have. 105 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,759 All right, So what other tools do you break to the negotiating table? 106 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:53,600 Well, aside from planning in preparation. Within that, I think you 107 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,720 first need to think about what is it that we're trying to create? Right, 108 00:07:56,759 --> 00:07:59,040 we had that at the beginning, But then how am I going to 109 00:07:59,079 --> 00:08:01,839 get there? You may say to me Mark, I want a quote unquote 110 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:05,360 good deal, to which I'm going to say to you, cool story. 111 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,439 So does the other person what does a good deal mean for you? What 112 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,199 constitutes a good deal? So you might say, well, I want to 113 00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:18,360 make more money, I want to reduce risk, I want to improve communication, 114 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,879 could be a number of different things you do. But then I would 115 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,040 say, okay, break those down. What are you going to actually negotiate 116 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:28,839 into the deal to ensure the successful achievement of those things. So I'll give 117 00:08:28,879 --> 00:08:35,120 you an example. Ha Here they wanted to redo the pool house facility. 118 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:41,320 So you know, I basically figured out what they wanted, talked to the 119 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,559 guy, and then you know, he puts forth a proposal. Then they 120 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,720 come back with a bunch of changes which were meaningless, didn't really save anything, 121 00:08:52,279 --> 00:08:54,600 And I'm trying to explain. Look, contractors, they know how to 122 00:08:54,639 --> 00:09:00,360 get you here. You've either got to cut corners or when you change something, 123 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:01,879 they're going to get hit you with a change order and they're going to 124 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:07,639 make that money back. So you're better off just acknowledging the fact that they 125 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:13,320 need to make a profit regardless of what the number is. If if you 126 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,080 push for too good a deal, you're going to get hit with change orders. 127 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,559 And you can't explain thus to these people. They just don't know they 128 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:24,639 have to negotiated right. And important in that is you also knew what you 129 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,320 wanted as a part of the leadership of the HOA right, you wanted to 130 00:09:28,519 --> 00:09:33,159 ensure a smooth process. You probably had a timeline that you wanted to hit. 131 00:09:33,399 --> 00:09:35,600 You probably wanted to reduce some liability as a result of all that, 132 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,039 But there were some key things that you probably want to hit too. Very 133 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:45,919 true, Very true. Well, I find it to the fascinating that most 134 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:48,720 people, like you say, they go into a negotiation that wing it. 135 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,320 You don't really know what you want, so therefore you don't know if you 136 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:54,679 got it, and you don't know if you wanted or lost. To react 137 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,039 to you. But sometimes you make these deals, like you said, it 138 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:03,159 seems everything se as a reasonable The company, you know, a consultant, 139 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,360 basically he develops a marketing plan for big companies, household names, right, 140 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,960 And he doesn't really want to do it, he doesn't need to do it, 141 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,559 but he says, look, I know, I think it's going to 142 00:10:16,639 --> 00:10:22,639 work. You're going to give me six percent of revenues in perpetuity, right, 143 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:28,240 And they need him so badly at that point, and seems like a 144 00:10:28,279 --> 00:10:33,799 great deal. Twenty years down the road, they're still paying in royalties millions 145 00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:39,200 of dollars a year and they just want they'll do anything to fy the door. 146 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,480 But they know that they can't get out of it fire. That's all 147 00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:43,440 that. Yeah, this is what I mean by in terms of the total 148 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:46,240 value of the deal over the lifetime of that deal. Right like this, 149 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:52,120 that's the perfect example of what I was talking about. So understanding that at 150 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,799 the beginning of the conversation and determining that could be very, very beneficial to 151 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,679 your organization long term. I mean, think about if you grew business from 152 00:11:00,759 --> 00:11:03,720 you know, let's just say, yea, I'm the six seventh figures, 153 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,759 right, You've got a one point five two million dollar business, but you 154 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:11,039 grow that into a two hundred million dollar business. Six percent at two million 155 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:18,360 dollars doesn't seem outrageous. Six percent at two hundred million dollars seems crazy, 156 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:22,679 right, So when you think about the scope and scale of the business, 157 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,159 that's why that's so important. Exactly what we're talking about here. And yeah, 158 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,519 when you were a tenet of size or one hundredth of size, hey, 159 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:35,600 it was get out. It was pie in the sky right exactly. 160 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,480 Plan worked and you wouldn't be there without him, right, right, you'd 161 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,600 be there without him. But as he had said, I want when you 162 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,200 hit twelve two hundred million, I want twelve million a year. You would 163 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,639 have told them to take a hike, but when you were negotiating, he 164 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:54,200 never even thought that was possible. So you still want the negotiation. It's 165 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:58,320 just that maybe he made a better deal than you thought he did. Yeah. 166 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,720 Absolutely, it's good. Give us some real life examples of the deals 167 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:09,120 that you've helped negotiate for clients and others. Some that have turned out amazing, 168 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,679 and some of that have bombed. Well, I'll tell you the one 169 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:16,320 that bombed. It was one of the larger negotiations I've ever done. It 170 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:22,039 was about two hundred and fifty MILI and everything was going hikey, Dori, 171 00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:28,279 And we were about nine months into the negotiation, which is fairly reasonable based 172 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,919 on a deal of that size, and I was getting stuck in the weeds. 173 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,559 I was too deep in the weeds to see it. You know. 174 00:12:35,639 --> 00:12:39,200 That's saying you're so deep in the forest that you can't see the forest through 175 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,240 the trees. That's where I was right. And we were arguing over venutia 176 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,879 nonsense. Little thing was that within the grand scale of the deal didn't make 177 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:54,759 a lot of sense. And were buttonheads over and over and over again, 178 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,120 and should have done this way sooner. But I went to the person that 179 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:03,039 I represented and I said, listen, we're stuck. We're stuck in this 180 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:07,879 deal. I don't know what to do. And I got pulled out of 181 00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:11,480 the deal and the counterparty side got pulled out of the deal, and they 182 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,360 put two new people in place, and they closed that deal in the next 183 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:20,039 three weeks. So the shot them going to the right. Yeah, and 184 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,840 we were like seventy five percent done right at nine months, and they closed 185 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,639 the last twenty five percent in the next three weeks. And that taught me 186 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,120 a big lesson. The lesson is don't let your ego get in the way 187 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,240 of your success. That's probably the biggest lesson that I've ever learned in a 188 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,759 negotiation, because ultimately, you want to be right in a negotiation. Oftentimes 189 00:13:39,759 --> 00:13:45,000 when your ego gets in the way, and so you could let being right 190 00:13:45,639 --> 00:13:50,320 get in the way of securing a really important deal for your business, and 191 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:54,080 fundamentally that changes the way that you think about the deal. You end up 192 00:13:54,120 --> 00:14:00,200 putting being right ahead of making money. And when you're putting being right head 193 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,919 of making money, you're now emotional in the negotiation, and that's bad. 194 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:11,720 Yeah, you got to be objective and emotionally uninvolved. Correctly, you love 195 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,679 cut the deal and it popped the champagne. So this is an example where 196 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,279 you got so tied up in the details that you forgot what the goal was. 197 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:26,679 That's right. Luckily your client didn't, So becoming a hand drance, 198 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:30,919 that's right. Right, So all right, and that is that? What 199 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,559 a great lesson. I mean, it's not great for how you feel after 200 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,279 after that happens to you. You're like, oh my god, I'm a 201 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,679 loser. What have I done? But it's an important lesson to learn. 202 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,480 Yeah, well you came back down to earth, you know exactly, Hey, 203 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:48,919 because of the success. Look, I'd always say you learned way more 204 00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:52,720 from your failures than you do from your successes. You know, you should 205 00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:58,960 treat your failures like gold or the lessons you learned from them. So what 206 00:14:58,039 --> 00:15:03,840 about one where worked out the opposite where you were the hero everybody deciety? 207 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,519 Yeah, I mean the opposite is also true. I've worked on many deals 208 00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:11,360 where I haven't. The goal is to not be a hero. Strangely enough, 209 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,519 the goal is to ensure that I represent the need of the business that 210 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,279 I'm representing in the best way. Possible, and when you always keep that 211 00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:24,159 top of mind, you're always more successful. One such deal in particular, 212 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:31,240 similar kind of industry, similar kind of situation. We're able to get the 213 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,360 feedback from the client about what it is they were trying to achieve down to 214 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:39,519 the nth degree. We were crystal clear about what is it that we wanted 215 00:15:39,559 --> 00:15:43,960 to achieve during the negotiation, and we had a range of acceptable outcomes for 216 00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:50,840 each of those things. Going into the deal. Made that transaction a lot 217 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:52,679 easier because we were very clear about what we could do, what we could 218 00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:56,440 not do, where we wanted to be, where we didn't want to be. 219 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,120 And I didn't have to go back and forth with the client. I 220 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:03,559 didn't mess rever represent the client's need, I didn't get stuck in the minutia. 221 00:16:03,039 --> 00:16:07,360 It was much much easier to be able to get things done. And 222 00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,720 I think that's the major message that I want to leave with everyone today is 223 00:16:11,279 --> 00:16:15,799 be very very very very clear about what it is you want to achieve and 224 00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:18,399 how you think you might want to achieve it, because once you're clear about 225 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,120 that, the negotiation goes much sooner. I know there's a lot of people 226 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:26,600 who try to be cagey with that sort of things in negotiation, or they 227 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:30,679 say, well, if I just ask for what I want, that's too 228 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,440 on the nose. I find the opposite is actually true. I find the 229 00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:37,000 more direct you are, the better it's going to be. Right any So, 230 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,600 what about the concept of envisioning or visualizing the completed deal as you want 231 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:47,200 it? Love that working from the end result to the you know, it's 232 00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:51,200 kind of law of attraction, the new ag type stuff. But I find 233 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,440 it really works. It works. It does work because you get a clear 234 00:16:56,559 --> 00:16:59,720 vision of what success looks like for you. And I think where most people 235 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:06,920 think that that sounds maybe to fluffy is you're probably thinking high level at not 236 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,480 breaking that vision down. So if you want success, like what does the 237 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,519 successful deal look like to you? How does it end up? But then 238 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:18,480 working backwards from that to create the concrete steps to be able to achieve that 239 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,319 is where you be to be. If like the end state of visualization is 240 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:27,079 too fluffy, work backwards from that. So are where we find you on 241 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,039 the web? How do we connect with you? The easiest play to find 242 00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:34,519 me is right on the website negotiations dot Ninja or connect with me on LinkedIn 243 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,839 and you can just search my name Mark Grafin on LinkedIn and I'm happy to 244 00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:41,960 connect. Just make sure that you said you listened to Carrie's podcast, because 245 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,440 that's why I'll know how to connect with you. Excellent. Really appreciate that. 246 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,559 Hey, you got a question from Mark and myself. If you've been 247 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,400 stuck in the negotiation, it hasn't worked out, or it has worked out. 248 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,559 Who want to hear from you? Shoot me an email kl at Kerrie 249 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,079 lets dot com. Go to the site of Financial Survival Network dot com show 250 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,039 notes to this interview. You'll have Mark's link right there. Just click it. 251 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:07,759 Go ahead. While you're there, sign up for your free newsletter. 252 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,160 Mark. Been a pleasure. Thanks someone for stopping by. Thanks so much 253 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:17,000 for having me Kerry appreciate it. Thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival 254 00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:21,799 Network, your solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to 255 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,200 Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more than ever