What is up, fellow thermonuclear a effors. I am Dan FA Valley coming
at you with another twenty twenty three twenty twenty four NBA team look Ahead.
We're on to the Minnesota Timberwolves. I am super excited and grateful to be
joined by Kyle Tige. He covers the Minnesota Timberwolves four score North as well
as the Dane Moore NBA podcast, one of my favorite team specific podcasts in
the business. Those who do a great job over there. File follow Kyle
on Twitter at k y L E. T h E I G E.
And then you can follow the Dane Moore and the NBA podcast that they both
do at Danemore NBA. I'll include the links to everything that Kyle does in
the YouTube and podcast description. Kyle, it's your first I'm on here,
So thank you so much for agreeing to come on and talk wolves with me.
I was I was really hyped when you hit me up on Twitter,
so this is kind of a big moment for me as well. I appreciate
you and all the stuff you do. Like I said before we started recording,
I think you might have the best setup background in the podcast game.
So if you're on YouTube. It's definitely worth checking out. But yeah,
I'm excited to talk about the Wolves. It's not scary anymore to be a
fan of the team. With some questions still, but things are things are
looking up well one, thank you for the kind words, and it's better.
The YouTube commenters think I'm in like a closet for some reason. I
used the podcast from an addict, so I thought that gave up more closet
vibes than my actual office. Yeah, this team is Look, I can't
quit the Wolves. My co host and I were so high on the Rudy
Gobert stuff last summer, and we obviously, you know, pull back on
that a little bit, but we both remain fascinated with this team and also
fairly high on them. But I wanted to start because with this team,
I think it matters what happened last season or didn't happen. How much do
we read in to how last season unfolded given all of the the injuries they
dealt with and of course the roster churn at the trade deadline. So it's
a good question. I mean, obviously, a little over a year ago
they make this blockbuster trade where Timberols fans and people who cover the team aren't
used to blockbuster trades where good players come our way. It's usually the other
way around. And then you were immediately met with high expectations, which is
not something a franchise that's thirty four years in has, like one noteworthy playoff
run in them, is used to, so expectations. And then obviously Carl's
injury I think it was November, he really shreds up his calf. We
thought it was an achilles in the moment, but he missed his fifty two
games. So last year was all about this two Bigs experiment, right,
like you're talking about all other twenty nine teams. But I think you're starting
to see a vibe or a trend in the league again that we were so
used to small ball. I think more and more teams are getting a little
bigger now. I mean Denver had a pretty big frontline last year when they
won the titles. So you have this experiment and then you get it nuked
right away Carls out. So they still were able to use depth. They
had the deepest team in franchise history last year. Again, if you don't
know the Timberwolves, that's a pretty low bar because there was a lot of
Luke grid Andauer's and Alexei Sched's in our fandom. But this year's team is
even deeper, and now I think with a full training camp, healthy guys
knock on wood, that we're gonna be able to get a real good image.
But last year, you know, it looked really good with Nasried at
the four and Kyle Anderson at the four and Rudy patrolling the paint. But
that's not what this was about. That's not what the experiment is about.
This has to work with Carl and Rudy this season. Otherwise next summer as
you get in the second Apron and the new CBA like they could be on
the precipice of another blockbuster trades where maybe good players are going out. So
not a ton to take from last year. I think we're still going to
learn a lot about this team in October, November, and December. But
injuries definitely kind of derailed a lot of the excitement of last year. This
is so random, but you say Alexi Sfed and I can't hear that name,
and I always just think of Ricky Rubio's change your face do It would
immediately go to for anyone who cares. So, yeah, this team,
the stuff that they're saying leading into this season, one of the takeaways seems
like they're trying to run with a more structured offense and with play calls,
which I find interesting. How do you think they benefit from that? What
changes do you actually see implemented? How does that impact Karl Anthony Townsend,
Anthey Edwards specifically, who might be their two most important offensive players. Yeah,
we're using the word like you know how Jay Billison draft coverage uses like
wingspan and then everyone drinks. That's kind of what we do with structure in
Wolves Twitter is like anytime we bring up the word structure, it's like,
oh my god again. But I don't think structure is a bad thing,
right, Like, if you anyone listening to this, in any job you
have or your family or whatever, like, structure is nice because then you
can build off structure. Structure shouldn't restrict you. It should allow you to
then have a baseline that then you can you know, freestyle off of or
build off of. So for the Wolves, especially with a guy like Rudy,
he's not the best player on the team. That's Karler and he's not
the second best that's Kraler, and he's partly of not the third that's Jade
McDaniels. But he is such an integral part and you paid so much to
get him. I mean that dude is like signed Tangent, Like he loves
his vitamins and his supplements and his workout routine. He loves structure. He's
a regiment guy. And when he's the core of your defense and kind of
the rim protecting all that stuff, you need him to be able to trust
and have a structure that then Jaden and Ant can kind of freestyle off of
both offensively and defensively. So I just think Finch this is the first time
Finch has been here where he hasn't had D'Angel Russell at point guard. That's
no knock to Delo. I think Delo is more of a free flowing ball
in his hands type guy. Now it's Mike Conley. I think the ball
is going to move around more. They played the Knicks over the weekend in
a preseason game and in the second half had twenty five assists on twenty five
made baskets. That's kind of the Finchian, you know. Golden State moved
the ball type thing, So I think he wants to install more structure.
You saw Ant do really well with Team USA structure, but then still allow
those guys I mean in transition is when Ant's gonna thrive. Allow Carl to
be a little more creative. He's a good passing big. So I think
structure is going to be something they stress in training camp and you'll see early
on in the season. But I don't think that means they're going to be
robotic or rigid in how they play. Yeah. Among the things I missed
on with the Timberwolves last season was thinking that the Mike Conley trade was a
mistake because I thought Deanel Russell had a very good individual season, But three
games in the Mike Conley experience, I'm like, Oh, is that Mike
Commley just hitting those corners? He hits a corner three, Like everything just
seems to be working. How important is he to kind of optimizing this offense
of everybody drink structure. If you are not a Timberls fan, but you're
just familiar with buzzwords like Rudy Gobert trade or Tim Connelly, you know that
they paid you know, one and a half two times market value last summer
to get their house, and their house was Rudy Gobert and that will never
be able to fully get the compensation back for that. It was an overpaid
They got a good player. But I say all that to say that Mike
Conley trade was like if you found a really nice yacht and someone just had
to sell it right away and they were going to for one tenth of the
price. Because Mike Conley's great, he feels rejuvenated, He's been great in
media day. He says he feels like he's twenty five. He's also probably
in the lineage of all the cool point guards. Anthony Edwards has played with
Ricky Rubio, Patrick Beverly Dangel Russell. They've all helped mentor him. Mike
might be the best. I mean, that guy's never gotten a technical foul
in his career. But I want to go back to the Conley trade quick
because yes, it was Mike Conley. But another guy who has looked really
good for Team Canada in the summer in the workouts is Nikhil Alexander Walker.
I mean they got essentially they flipped De Loo for two point guards slash just
point guards that fit better and if you remember that trade with the Lakers and
the Jazz, they got three second round picks. They use one of those
second round picks to move up and get a guy who we're all crushing on
right now is nineteen year old Leonard Miller, who looked phenomenal again just preseason,
but looks like another kind of young, cheap second round guy that Tim
Conley found. So to your original question, I just think Mike Conley when
he came in, Chris Finch told him exactly like, I need you to
score. You haven't been expected to score in utie how you've been more of
a facilitator, Like you need to fill some of Delo's shoes and score and
space the floor and be aggressive with your own shot. And I just think
he is. We like to do leadership power, leadership power rankings and kind
of figure that stuffarth. I think Mike Conley is probably the leader of this
team. He's not the loudest, but everyone in that room listens to him
and believes in him, and I think he's gonna be Finch called him the
quarterback on the court, so I think Finch is going to trust him to
promote that structure but also be like, Hey, if I have to audible,
I trust you to audible with certain situations. Rudy Gobert had a down
year last season, probably at both ends of the floor. Having my commley
here, I would assume I think he ended up with his lowest role man
volume last year, and having my commedy there andthey edwards improving, I would
think that changes. But he's also talked a lot about improving his like for
lack of just ball skills, better phrasing. I find myself intrigued and terrified
by that because I don't necessarily want him trying certain things that that comes with.
But like, do you buy into the fact that he can do that,
maybe make more decisions with the ball to where it's hey, this is
someone outside of a dunk. I think he shot like forty seven percent on
non dunks last year. And if he's just able to either even use a
gathered drible or finish better on layups, that's something that goes a long way
for this team. Do you buy into that type of improvement being there?
Or is this like, I mean, this guy's in his thirties, Like
what are we really waiting for? I will say a little behind the scenes
of the podcasting world. When you sent me these questions, I just started
reading number four, do you buy into Rudy Gobert? And I just answered
it. No. I didn't even need to read the rest of it.
No. I mean one thing that in this is I'm very pro Chris Finch,
as you can tell. But last year when they got Rudy, one
of the things was like they were going to unlock this untapped offensive potential and
it was borderline like throw it into him in the post and go full Hakem
and he does not have those skills. This is probably a more nuanced conversation
of ken old dogs learn new t. I don't know. I you know.
This summer was viral for Rudy taking a couple of threes for France.
I don't think he'll ever take a three for the team. I think that
would be a nightmare. But basically little things, right like can you get
him? One thing we're pushing over in our Wolves fandom and coverage is like
a push shot, like if he gets the ball and he's not he he
is a freak of nature in terms of his height and his build, but
he's not necessarily like a leaper he's not the most heat. He does a
lot of things. If you watch him around the rim, they are like
finger rolls. It's like, hey man, just like just dunk it,
so you know that kind of five foot space where maybe he can't gather and
dunk. Maybe there's a little pushot involved, but I think maybe just refining
or leaning into the things that were that worked for him in his twenties in
Utah would be good, but asking him to do other stuff, and maybe
it was just a short sample size, but it did not look good last
year and it really kind of nuked how their offense was looking. So it's
it's weird for non Timberols fans to make wait, you all those picks and
all those players to get a guy who you want to be a role player.
But that's really all they want. They just want him to be the
best role player that can be. If he scores eight points on Tuesday,
that's cool because he probably got fourteen rebounds and had four blocks and had a
bunch of screen assists. But I don't know if there's much left to tap
into when it comes to Rudy's offense. I might be okay with him posting
up Derek Lively. But that's really like the extent of where it be.
Oh my god, don't even get me started. I don't want to critique
any Dallas Mavericks player or fan, but boy did those two games made me
feel good as a Timberwolf fan and bad as a as someone who would watch
the Mavericks. What does this team need from And I didn't include the in
the outline, but what do they need from Rudy Gobert defensively? I think
a lot of people were disappointed that he just wasn't kind of like the caps
locked generational defender. I think that happens when you get older. I also
think like he's still had his high moments and there are points where probably got
better as the season wre on, Like what are realistic expectations for him on
that end? Before? I think just navigating what coverages? I mean they
kind of since Finch got here, they've dabbled with multiple defensive coverages. I
mean they can run out lineups, man, where they can just switch one
through five. That's not really why you get Rudy Gobert, right, you
want him around the rim. He's still I don't I'm still learning some of
the more advanced stats that come up now with how Rudy is still very very
highly rated as like just rimmed A Terrens and he does change shots and he's
not Walker Kessler. Again, that ship has kind of already sailed, but
he's still really, really damn good at it. So I think just asking
him, you know, making him feel more comfortable. He's also in his
defense because of the injuries last year, he didn't have a lot of trust.
I don't think his teammates trusted him because he didn't know him, and
he is just a more unique guy, and I don't think he trusted his
player or his teammates as well. But in Utah, did he ever really
have a no knock on Utah when they were making runs? But did he
ever have a player as good on the perimeter defensively as Jade McDaniel's. I
don't know. Now he knows who Jaden is. Now he knows what defensive
ceiling is. So I think if he can trust the guys on the perimeter
more and just you know, really just set up shop defensively around the rim,
this team still struggles to rebound. That's another reason they got him is
that he should just if he can just goggle up fourteen to fifteen rebounds a
night, get a couple of blocks, and just deter some shots. Yeah,
you're paying a real premium for that mortgage, but that's all they need.
They just need someone to live. And him giving you eight fifteen and
three every night is a dream come true for this, for this organization.
Yeah, especially they're so big and yet they're rebounding. Was just it's crazy.
It's crazy. I'm asking this. I think more so for me because
I don't know that actual basketball fans will be interested. But there'd been like
a pattern who was out there on wolf social media that Carrently Towns has been
very like short with the media and was listening to a podcast you and Dane
did where you played the clip of someone asking him about this answer about why
he was being short was so unbelievably short. Is there like, what is
this like? What is this thing? Is it just supposed to reflect the
mindset? Is it something to even note? Does it not matter? I
know I think it matters because it's clearly strategic and he's leaning into it.
I've always been more pro cat than maybe your general person. I know that
like the resume is not there. But again, as a Minnesota sports fan,
you're used to players coming through and then wanting to leave. He's been
very adamant about wanting to make it work. It's again, if you're a
Celtics fan listening to this or a Lakers fan, you're like, this kid's
crazy. And I, yes, at admittedly so, but like it's cool
that Carl wants to wear like a Spreewell jersey to practice or like you know,
like wear the retro shorts. He embraces wanting to try to make this
work. And then I do think he's gotten to a level because he said
some dumb things, like some of the podcasts he was on this summer not
great, but they're always innocent. They're just stupid, right, It's not
like he There's other players in the news right now that are causing a lot
more havoc off the court than what Carl does. But I think he was
just burned by the reaction to so many lighthearted things like, you know,
our play in game victory was just as important or meaningful as the Denver's.
No it wasn't, that's not true. But now he's just really trying to
be short zero dark Carl, I guess, and that's good because he's still
really good basketball player and this team does not need any more sound bites because
Aunt will give them all to you. They gets some young guys that like
to talk as well. So if that's his mentality, he's just going to
be basketball basketball basketball. It's gonna come off a little weird and we'll critique
him again, but I think that's the best thing for him in this team.
It's just, hey, maybe you're not the guy that talks after games.
Let Aunt do that like some of these other like Mike Conley is a
great quote. Kyle Anderson's phenomenal. So if we see less or hear less
off Carl, that's probably a win win win for everyone involved. Yeah.
I didn't think of it that way, where I mean, I don't go
what players and executives and people say all the time, and it's like,
if you don't want to have to deal with the blowback of I said this,
and it's in the moment, and like you have this huge platform.
I didn't even think of it that way, and so that just doesn't seem
like that big of an issue at all. Just it was definitely a change
and so I was so very curious. So the question, the service level
question is can Karl Anthony Towns play the four? But what are we what
is that? Like? What do we actually need to be watching most closely
from him? If this dual big setup, not just with Rudy Gobert,
but they're gonna playnav read a ton of minutes as well if it's going to
work, Like, what should we be watching to see from Karl an Anthony
Towns. Well, that's like one of the better ways anyone's ever phrased that
is can he play the four? My pushback would be, and again I'm
very pro kar Anthony Towns is like can he play the five? Right?
Like, the team has never really shown a level of success. Now granted
they had some lean rosters, but the rebounding was He's just not a great
rebounder. You know, he's not as athletic as some of the other typical
centers you would think. I mean, he can shoot the ball. Maybe
the best in the league is a big man, like he's not Brook Lopez
his size, he doesn't have that rim protection. So I think him playing
the four a lot of It's going to come down to how do teams hunt
him on the perimeter because he's just going to be out there more. Can
he move his feet enough. But then just in general, going back to
the crazy comments thing like I don't know if he's the best shooting big man
of all time because Derek was pretty good, but he's he is really good,
and for him, he just needs to up his three point attempts.
Like that's like the basic like if you want to like a real basketball for
dummies, it's like, hey, Carl, take eight threes a game.
I don't care what else you do. Just like take threes like you saw
him in the Dominican Republic. Just cross half court, one step, get
the ball, let it fly. That's unguardable. And then he has developed
Jannis esque, not on Jan's level, but like the ability to pump and
go and get to the rims. So I think him playing power forward will
be more about what he does on offense and can he space the floor and
give guys like Aunt more room to create because Rudy is, you know,
taking up some real estate around the rim. Defensively, I think he can
be a liability and it's okay because you have Rudy Gobert who is a three
time defensive player. Theyre Jane McDaniels and Aunt and at other times ju Yo,
we kind weaven guys that can also defend. Mike Conley's not a sieve,
so I think if he can keep it up on the offensive end,
we won't worry as much about what he's not bringing to you as a you
know, a great typical defensive minded power forward. On the defensive end.
Do you think they have enough spacing outside the starting five to optimize or lean
on his pump and go game. I I spend a lot of nights just
sitting on my couch thinking about that. I don't know. I do think
shooting is like a little I'm a little nervous about that. But I also
will say that their two biggest they obviously re signed Nazari right before free agency.
Would love to tell you my thoughts on him at some point, but
they also then went out right away and got Shake Milton and Troy Brown Junior.
I wasn't super familiar with Troy Brown Junior, just because I remember he
started for the Lakers f out and then kind of got buried after the trade.
But he played last night in a really weak preseason game, but he
was awesome, like he just hit every three he took. Shake Milton can
just cook two as well. So I do think when they bring me,
They're bench is going to be like their five or their six through nine guys
are going to be like a combination of Shake, Milton, Troy Brown,
Junior, Nikhil Alexander Walker, who has refined his shot mechanics and is at
least respectable. And then Kyle Anderson, who I know it takes a week
for the shot to get off, but think he shot damn near forty percent
last year from three, So I do I'm putting a pin in it,
but I do think they have enough spacing. And then Mike Conley has been
great, shooting almost career highs from deep, So I do think when they
start to get into weird rotations, they'll have enough that gives Karl enough space.
And hell, as much as I've just emphasized this experiment, it might
be Carl and Rudy just playing different times, and Carls with nosmore Nas had
four to threes in the first half against the Knicks. Like, I do
think there's enough spacing. It's just as Chris Finch put the right five man
rotations out there to make sure Karl does have that space. You want to
talk about Nasried Hiss podcast loves them some nas Reed he took off like before
his injury last year. What impressed you the most about his development? And
then what are you kind of monitoring most closely as he heads into this year?
Uh? I love this pod, So everyone should be subscribing because this.
I think Dan has one of the best pods out there. But I
don't know the typical listener how familiar are with Nasrid, So I do want
to just give him or give the elevator pitch. Nasried was undrafted or lsu
and he would tell you this more than anyone. He was a fat kid
who couldn't jump Like I always say, you think about guys jumping from the
free throw line, Nasrid couldn't jump over and it's painted on the floor.
He had no athleticism. He is the best developmental story in franchise history.
I think he's also one of the best developmental stories just in the league.
He's an undrafted guy who has just busted his ass every year and now gotten
paid. He's also like only twenty four years old, so he still is
like Is he a five, is he a four? I don't know,
but he's great on the bounce. He has a point guard's handle because he
was one of those prospects that like, oh, I played guard and then
all of a sudden one summer, I grew six inches and now I'm a
big guy. He's the most the Wolves executives, everyone and coaches will tell
you he's the most competitive player on the team. He took losing the hardest
those first couple of years. So we were all happy to see him resigned,
happy to see him get paid. And it was three games Dan,
but there was a West Coast road trip about in February where they had all
their guys. Carl came back and they looked awesome, like and it was
all because in those three games of like what nas Reid just allowed them to
do with Carl and naz Rudy and nas Nas at the five, with Kyle
at the four. So I think he is still when we do the whole
Oh, this is the under twenty five group, and this is what each
team has for the future, like it's always aunt and Jayden Nasried is in
there. He's a core part of this team. He signed as a core
part of this team, and I just think he continues to get better at
everything, including defense, including rebounding. So his story is awesome. If
you want a guy to cheer for, it's him. And that was I
appreciate you letting me have propaganda for nas read a little bit because he is.
He's one of the coolest guys in the league. And I think more
and more fans on a national level we'll get to know him this summer or
this fall. Yeah, and look last season, he sneakly shot thirty seven
percent on non corner threes, which is just big as like the position that
he's gonna play. And the thing that absolutely floored me was his floor game
was just like it was, this guy's taking people off the dribble and it's
not just oh and open space like, no, he's going through traffic,
making these tough, gritty finishes. There's that sixteen game stretch I think right
before you're huge, just annihilating everybody. And you mentioned his defense. I
proved like his his stand up rim protection that improved. He is when you
when you start digging into and I like the data of the dual big combinations
from last season. I'm so optimistic on basically any pairing that includes him,
even though the numbers don't always support that, and a lot of it could
be well d Lo was there and Mike Commley wasn't, So we're working with
such a limited sample size. But when you're looking at these, you know,
dual bits, big combinations, what are the you know, what's the
one that intrigued you the most? What is the and then what's the one
that are you concerned about the most. Where you're looking at Rudy and Nas
or Cat NAS, or then there's Rudy and Cat as well. It's just
every single combination is so fascinating and has still so many unanswered questions because of
for the most part, the limited sample that we got from them. Well,
if you go pull up like the two man lineup data from last year,
the Nas and Rudy pairing was really bad, like I don't know,
like a negative seventeen net rating or something, So that would be the one
that's most concerning, And ironically, I think that's the one I'm most excited
for because I just think Nas reads ability to space the floor. He again,
sometimes it gets out of control, like he'll get the rebound and just
make hey, I'm gonna play point guard this possession. I'm gonna sprint up
the floor and say, hey, man, like classic pickup basketball, give
it to a guard. But he he's just fearless in that way. And
I think him playing alongside Rudy. He had a couple possessions against the Mavericks
where like he would just attack the close out and and just have a really
nice little drop down pass or a lob to Rudy. So he's kind of
like a backup Kyle Anderson in the way that I think Nas can unlock a
lot of guys. I also just think to Nas and Kyle are really from
Kyle Anderson is like the we say this a lot in sports, but like
the prototypical five tool guy he can do. He's a Swiss army knife.
He can just make everyone's life easier. His role might be diminished this season
just because he played a lot of four when Carl was out, but uh
yeah, I think Nas no matter what the stats were last year, and
they're real stats, but I think that data can be thrown out a little
bit because I think he's just continued to add things to his game that like,
okay, now, let's see him just, you know, be the
guy that gets rudy touches around the rim when Nas is closing out because he's
kind of driving like Carl Woods. So yeah, there's some scary numbers for
sure on Nas, and the defense was probably one of the worst things he
did early in this season, but he's retooled his body all the stuff I
said earlier. So I'm basically if Nas Reid's on the floor, I'm tuning
in. I don't care who the other four guys are. I think I
might be most intrigued by the Cat Nas pairing in part because I believe in
NAS's defense, and when you're looking at what He's able to do on offense,
that's your pathway to playing five out without maybe torpedoing your defensive structure.
Everybody drink again, how many times I gotta say that word? So I
think I'm most excited to see that one. But do you think this team
is telegraphed by resigning Nas reed that we're just gonna play with two bigs for
basically all forty eight minutes, or do you think they'll get to a point
where they still want to stagger in some ways and see some of the one
big combinations and what maybe is the one that they'll be leaning upon most.
I think that's a great question. I might steal that for future pods.
I don't know, because that's kind of the thing we're doing now. We
don't have much basketball talking about until we start hammering rotations. They just pay
way too much money to way too many big guys for it ever to be
one big out there. I don't know. I mean, I think it'd
be cool to see like a Rudy Gobert the five, Kyle at the four
and then three guards, but you would then have like fifty five million dollars
on the bench in carl and nas, So it's going to be really difficult.
I did say at the top that last year was the deepest team in
franchise history. Without a doubt, this team is deeper and now the deepest
team in franchise has been like last year. Not to segue, but Jalen
Noel was sixth in the in total minutes for this team. Last year in
Austin, Rivers was seventh or eighth. Both those guys are like pseudo out
of the league right now. I think Jaalen Newell's on a training camp deal
with the Kings and Austin Rivers does have a job. Now you just replace
those guys with like shake Milton, who you know is good, or now
you just replace those guys with like more minutes for Carl. So I think
rotations will be something that if we drink to structure, we also maybe drink
something harder for rotations because Finch has more more ingredients in the kitchen than most
coaches have, and then Finch's ever had. But Kenny mean, not to
be silly, but Kenny cook, like, does he know how to pair
those ingredients together to make good meals? Because he could also make some really
you know, lame five man lineups and then it could kill them early on
in the season. You mentioned Kyle Anderson before, and his role is shrinking.
How much do we brace for his role to shrink? He was so
important last year you've actually called him the most important signing free agent signing in
Wolve's history. Is it? I think you look at it. You said
he played a lot of four and it's just like, well, those minutes
aren't gonna be there. But then it's okay, Well, this team doesn't
really have traditional point guards, especially when you get outside the starting lineup,
So could they just try to run ultra big where maybe he's the pseudo primary
playmaker when if they ever want to get away with Mike Conley an aunt on
the bench, or even when Mike Comley's just on the bench. Yeah,
I mean for any comic book nerds that like Avengers, like this is Doctor
Strange is like one, like there is one simulation of all this that this
team like wins fifty games and everything clicks back to the ingredients thing. But
there's also so many that don't, so like, yeah, can Kyle be
the backup point guard but also like the third string power forward and also like
back up Jaden at the three. The numbers don't love Kyle Anderson at the
three, especially on this team, as much as they liked him at the
four. In an ideal world, Kyle's role wouldn't diminish. But again,
you're getting fifty two extra games of Carl He's gonna start. They might have
the least flexible starting five in the league just from politics, Like you're never
going to be able to change their starting five unless you beg Minnesota, Mike
Conley to like come off the bench. So I don't know. I've kind
of predicted too, Like it's a contract year for Kyle. He's so important
to them. Finch loves him. But if he's in a contract year and
he is getting diminished role and stuff like, is he a guy you maybe
dangle at the deadline when you try to, you know, improve in another
area like the shooting that I'm concerned about. I don't want Kyle Anderson to
leave, but he might be the most available guy on the roster just because
of how this is all working out financially. So yeah, I think he
can play back up point guard, but I think Shake Milton can too.
I think Nikkeel is a really nice backup to Mike. He can play the
three behind Jayden in spots, but I think Troy Brown, j You're is
just a better shooter to space the floor. Uh, he can back up
the four for sure. But again, like you just gave naz Reid fifty
two million, so that might be the toughest thing for Finch this year is
how do I find enough minutes for Kyle? Can he still get to twenty
minutes? And is he gonna be okay with a diminished role because he came
in and I know people might think I'm a homer, but again, when
I say he's the best free agent signing in franchise history, go look at
the list. There's not a lot of other impactful players on that list.
So yeah, it's gonna I think Kyle Anderson, to me, is maybe
the biggest burning question outside of Ken the two bigs work, is there Maybe
there might be room to play larger When it's nas Read and kar Anthony Town's
on the floor together, that might be a lineup where you could shoehorn some
Kyle Anderson minutes if that's like the front court, if you want him as
your backup point guard. Maybe I think, like we we I've been coining
the term size matters for this team. Put it on a shirt of like
if you just played Kyle Aunt, Jaden Carl or Nas and Ruby, like,
that's probably one of the longest all six to eight or higher five man
lineups in the league. I think that'd be awesome. And again, you
know, Tim Connolly has spoke about this, Chris Finch has been pretty open
about it too. Like when you make the trade for Rudy Gobert and then
you sign Nasrid to three point fifty two, Like you're big, Like,
don't you know, Like it's like on Super Bad when he's like Jewels,
you're drunk, Like, well, if you're you're big, like embrace it,
play big, you know. In those two games against the MAVs,
I think they outscored them points in the paint, like one hundred and ten
to sixty, Like make that your thing. You still have great shooters from
the outside, Carl and Anton Jaden and Mike Conley, but embrace being big,
and maybe that's what they'll do. Maybe Kyle will be a backup point
guard off the bench, and they just lean into having size and length and
wingspan and that's kind of their model. But they do at least have an
identity, and for the longest time, this team, I think a lot
of teams that struggle, right Dan, like they don't only have an identity.
I think the Wolves at least know now, like, yeah, they're
drunk, they're big, this is what they're gonna try to do. It's
been over thirty minutes and I haven't asked about a Fi Edwards, which is
either not how interesting this team is or just criminal on my behalf. Let's
start here. What impressed you the most about his development last year. He
again, I am a fan of this team that also covers it, but
he has a special place in our hearts. Not to get too sappy,
but like he comes in during what will be the weirdest draft in our lifetime,
the twenty twenty draft COVID. You know, there's no there's no March
madness. You don't get to see any of those games, there's no combine,
there's no summer league. And then the first year we only get to
interact with him on zoom and he's a young puppy, like he's eighteen year
old kid who who just wants to talk about fast food. So as much
as Nasrid is the greatest developmental story, you know, I don't have kids.
Like it's been cool kind of pseudo adopting Anthony Edwards because a lot of
the stuff that came out in that pre draft, and I know you remember
this, like was does he like playing basketball? Is he a hard worker?
Like the compsie the way I always whenever I see that, I just
automatically assume that players destined for stardom. I like that that critique. I
like that. No, and there was not gonna name names, but there
are people that comped him to like Dion Waiters and Jordan Crawford and all this
stuff, and it's like he might be one of the ten, twelve,
fifteen best players in the league and he's twenty two. So I think he's
gotten better every year for all the things the Wolves have done wrong, and
even during his tenure they had, you know, Gerson Rosas. Then he
gets let go in a weird situation Ryan Saunders, like Finch has been here
for most of it now, and I think Finch is a good coach and
great for him, very father sonish almost the relationship where Austin Rivers has said
this too, like Finch can coach him hard, and if you can coach
your best guy hard, that's usually a good thing as you trickle down the
roster, and he's open to coaching. But he's gotten better every year,
and the Wolves have surrounded him with a lot of vets. Back to that
whole point guard thing, like he's always had a sidekick. Ricky Rubio is
like the best way to enter the league, right, and then Pat Bev
gave him an edge that allowed them to get to the playoffs. D'Angel Russell
kind of taught him how to be more creative. I think Delo is one
of the most underrated facilitators and passers in the league. And now Mike Conley
is like, Okay, you've done all that stuff. You've you've been a
rookie, you've been tough like Pat Beth, you've been creative, but now
you just need to be professional and for you to be all NBA, which
is a big deal for him this year because he's got about fifty million on
the line for if he makes all NBA, his contract just balloons up as
one of those max extensions. Can you do it every night? Because we've
seen him dunk on guys, We've seen him go for fifty, we've seen
him shut down you know, Luca and Kyrie in that one MAVs game,
a couples like last year with him and Jaden. But to be one of
the best, and you know this covering all the teams, like every single
night. It can't just be on Christmas, can't just be against the Grizzlies
in April. It has to be like on the coldest night in January when
you're playing the Pistons. Can you bring your game for all eighty two and
that's the next step. Is that's how you become a superstar, not a
star, is to do it consistently. Verdict still out. But what has
he showed you that that he's not up to any sort of challenge. He's
a movie star, he's an Olympian, Like, he's doing everything you want
from young kids. So I believe in him, but we got to see
it. Yeah, and it's he's so polarizing because there are some that you
mentioned that the inconsistencies, but then it's like when you look at his profile
and some of the things he's done defensively in the playoffs and just like for
stretches in the regular season, there are so few guys that can legitimately be
the best player on both ends of the floor for their team, and he
has like the shape to be that guy. Yeah, the question of will
he and I think so I'll start here, do you buy and a lot
of the time last year he was so central to the offense by necessity.
Do you buy into him as a good enough passer to be that type of
engine? And I know that you and Dan have also talked about maybe being
with Team USA and asked to be more of a facilitator might have helped him
improve there even more because I do think he came a long way as a
playmaker over the past two years for sure. Yeah, and that goes back
to again, like with the glass in hand structure drink. I think if
he has more structure, and like I mean, I think about this in
my day job. If if you're put in a situation where you don't have
to think, you just have like the policies and procedures in place, the
structure in place to just act, that'll help him. I don't think he's
a great passor yet, I don't think he's a great facilitator. I didn't
I even't followed Devin Booker's career his whole timeline, but like it seemed like
Devin Booker come out of college was really your prototypical two guard that would score,
but then was just forced to take on more and more of a playmaking
role. And now Devin Booker is like one of the best you know,
he can play point or the two. So I think that would be what
Ant would want to lean into, is just we don't need you don't need
to average a assists a game, because most of the time you should just
be taking those shots. He still is a guy that's gonna be high volume
score, high volume shot attempts. But I think just even getting him to
like whatever he averages for points twenty six twenty seven a game, if he
can just average like four assists, I think those four assists will unlock not
only things for his teammates, right Dan, but like just more ability for
him to go score because it adds that threat of like I might pass this,
I might kick it out, I might throw this lob. But it's
still that's that is more than his defense. I think his ability to become
a really scary playmaker is the biggest challenge and obstaclely faces. But if he
hits that again, we're talking like, how is he not, you know,
top ten in the league by the time he's twenty three years old.
I wonder if having Mike Commy there ends up helping him develop better chemistry th
Goobert too, just as someone who's so familiar with setting that guy up.
Is there any other just areas of a game that are like, oh,
I'm going to be watching this? Is it? Maybe the finishing is it?
Some of the takeoff points on his drives is it the percentage of the
off the dribble, three, the defensive consistency, Like, what's kind of
the next biggest thing you're watching with him? Well, again, for the
non Wolves fans listening to this, like, I am a homer, but
I'm just a fan who does this part time. So yes, sometimes when
I complain about things like officiating, it's coming from a fan perspective. But
I would like for Ant to get like a third of the whistles that James
Harden gets or something. Ant Is loves to dish out contact to try to
then gain contact. But he's also just big, right, Like he's not
like no offense to Trey Young, but Trey Young is so condensed that when
he gets hit, like he might slide five feet across the floor. If
Ant gets hit, the player hitting him might fall backwards. So I think
when he attacks the rim, to answer your question, like, I'd love
to see him get as much as I want Carl to shoot eight. Three
is a game. I mean, if Ant's shooting ten free throws a game,
I think he just loves a challenge. She's like, oh, I
guess I'll just take this large step back. Three. It's like if you
want to score a bunch of points. Is there any better way to do
it than just stand at the free throw line and go shot and shot and
shot, Like get eight free points a game by getting to the free throw
line. So he hasn't always gotten a great whistle. He does yell hay
a lot if you're listening to the League Pass broadcast, but just getting to
the rim more often, learning how to absorb contact, not get hurt,
knock on wood. But increasing his free throw attempts, to me, is
kind of like something I'll be monitoring in box scores early on. Is like
I just I think to be the best players in the league and to be
a volume score that averages thirty the Lucas the James Hardens of the world.
You just need free points. And he hasn't been great at getting free or
easy baskets. If that makes sense. Oh no, I totally get that.
Uh. Jane McDaniels another pod YEA favorite. There are some players who
are transcendent defensively, but you have to watch them very closely to understand what
they do, and you probably won't even ever understand what they do. And
like a Draymond Green, yep, Jane McDaniels. I feel like you just
watch and immediately sense how dominant he can be defensively. I actually I forgot
he didn't make the All Defense team, and I don't know if he made
my list if I didn't put him on there. I think it's egregious because
going back and watching stuff with him from last season, and he was capslock
dominant on the defensive end, but he's also shown a bunch of flashes on
the offensive end. And my question to you is sort of twofold. Is
there a room for him to branch out offensively on this team or are we
like, should he should he be prepping for maybe even a U said decline
because Conthee Towns was not playing for so much of last year, so that
he he is my favorite player as much as I've promoted Nasrit and and all
these guys like Jane McDaniel's, I think is the coolest story. Uh.
I don't know, if you ever google this stuff, like you can see
that, like certain sites have a twenty twenty seven NBA mock draft right now.
I don't know who the hell these kids are. They're freshmen in high
school, but you can see that there are mock drafts dating back to five
years before twenty twenty, where Jane McDaniels was the first overall player mocked in
drafts. He was a five star kid out of high school, goes to
Washington, poor coaching, gets a lot of technical follows, falls in the
draft, gets selected by twenty eighth in twenty twenty, and he in three
years has become and again you watch probably more national around the league than I
do. Like, I think he might be the best perimeter defender in the
league, if not one of the top five. And then something that just
adds to him is that feels like most perimeter guys that can defend really well
that Paul Georgie six's eight six' nine wingspan. I think he's like six
eleven. Now, I mean how tall is I mean when I was at
media Day and he stands next to Rudy, It's like, are they the
same size? And I know Rudy's north a seven feet so if he's six
' eleven, he's also in a lot of the advanced metrics back this up.
He might be this Rudy's still the best rim protector on the team,
but Jaden is right there number two. So if your best permeter defender is
also just an elite rim protector. And then to go back to what you
said, like he's kind of nasty with the ball in his hands a little
bit, like he can score, he can get to the rim. They
don't. He loves the mid range. They don't ask him to do that.
And honestly talking to coaches and stuff, like he's about to get paid
really handsomely like Ant did. It's a tough negotiation because you don't just throw
the max at him like you would a Desmond Bayn or an Aunt. But
if you're his representation, you're like, well, why wouldn't you, Like,
I'm the whole reason that the ruy go bertrade looks bad because instead of
you know, trading me in the package and keeping two or three first,
you had to give all those extra first because you made me untouchable. I've
been the best defender in the team. I'm not like in malcontent. Yes,
he did punch a wall. Let's let's move forward from that. Like,
yeah, so he's not and he's not really asking for the ball more
so, I think you're gonna see him just skyrocket in terms of salary.
But you you actually said something that Finch told us is like, I don't
think there's much more room for him to grow offensively for now, right and
again, this is gonna look totally different every other year because if you unload
Carl next summer, now you have this big chunk of the pie that someone
has to eat, and I think Jane would get some of that. But
if Jade McDaniels goes from making, I think he's like the I think he
makes less than Wendell Moore right now. I don't know, Like so if
he goes to making, you know, thirty million dollars a year, don't
expect him to then be like giving you eighteen and ten because they don't really
need eighteen and ten. They just they got a lot of other guys that
can score and rebound, but they need him on the perimeter to guard the
best player on the other team. There is again a viral clip of him
and Aunt basically taking Luke Donchis and Kyrie every and putting them in prison last
year. And when those two guys are locked in, I do struggle to
find I mean, Kawhi and Paul George still probably the best, but there's
not many two guard or two man lineups that can just defend the perimeters.
So the world is at that man's fingertips. He's about to get paid.
I wonder I don't know how much you followed this, but I think the
deadline is the twenty third of October. I don't know if he'll get the
deal done by then, which would then leak into restricted free agency next summer.
But he has every negotiation like aspect at his fingertips. He can basically
demand the world and the team's just trying to figure out, how do we
just cut that to ninety percent because we can't afford to lose this player.
Yeah, and I'm my question to you is going to be do think an
extension gets done? And I guess the more the more pressing question is what
is the What are the Wolves negotiating over right now? Because I understand if
they were headed for like cat flexibility, they want to preserve his small hold.
They're not. They're going to run into I know this is taboo on
the day more podcasts at They're going to run into the second apron YEP issues
this next summer. So it's just like if he gets on the open market,
he his teams are and I've been pretty critical of this. I think
they're cowards for not going harder after opposing restricted free agents. I don't care
that you just tied up your cap space for thirty six hours or whatever it
is. Now in the new CBA, make teams pay more to keep their
own play like. I love that gamesmanship. Jade McDaniels is somebody that other
teams, regardless of their timeline, will go and they will throw a max
offer sheet to barring anything like catastrophic this season. So if you're the Wolves,
like if he's willing to sign the Devin Vaselle deal one hundred and thirty
five million guaranteed with the potential twelve million incentives or whatever it is, why
are you not just inking him to that. I know Vassell's better on offense,
but you just outlaid not just why Jade McDaniels is better on defense than
Denverselle, but why he is like top five. That's putting it probably like
being too conservative, and I'm saying is like he is a top five perimeter
defender, and he might just be the best perimeter defender. Like you can
get into Herb and Ogiannanoby and these other guys he's up there and he's so
important, Like what are they waiting for? What are they haggling over here?
I'll tell you this right now, this is a pretty source. If
if they could put Devin Vessel's contract in front of Jayden and have them sign
it, they would be over the moon. So I think that is like
the starting point when he and his representation walk into Tim Connolly's office. And
again, if you're a Spurs fan and you want to get into the minutia
of Jaden versus Devin Vessel, I totally get it. I just don't think
you can compare them because they're getting asked to do different things. But I'm
with you to answer your question. We have five days. I don't think
a deal will get done because I think both sides, the Wolves would say,
it's just so hard to figure out your value. You're probably maybe worth
a max, but we would just love to have any sort of savings we
can. You're right that the second Apron's gonna nuke them five different ways from
Sunday, But like if they can just find a little discount, right,
just some sort of discount, that's how you do inevitably go find a shake.
Milton or a Troy Brown Junior or a Nikil like every dollar matters,
especially when you're financially in the situation the Wolves are. And for him,
I think he's probably just like, Okay, let's let's wait. I will
say, I am so with you. And when you said the restricted fre
agency stuff, I think of Austin Reeves. His situation was obviously a little
different. But no, that was impressed. But I do wonder if the
Wolves look at Austin Reeves and think, well, if we get into restricted
free agency and these teams have shown no backbone and just coming out on July
first and saying here's a max deal, maybe they're like, in to Tim
Connolly's point, the one thing I'll say, and this ties everything in.
He has never felt pressure to do something. He makes the Rudy Go Bear
trade, and everyone at that time last summer is like, well, you've
got your four starters Carl, Rudy and and Jayden. You got to give
Dilo the bag, lock them up and you know, put put it all
the pieces together. He's like, why would I have to do that now?
He waited until I think the Thursday at eleven am Pacific time before the
trade deadline, held the Lakers in Jazz kind of hostage and made this move
gets Nikhil gets draft picks, get my comedy. Same with Nas Red.
It's like you got to resign nas during the season. I think it was
thirty six hours before fregency started. He gets the deal done, so I
think he might be comfortable letting this leak out as well. I don't think
Jayden will be a problem. I don't think he's for the football fans.
I don't think he's going full TJ Hawkinson here with the Vikings saying my ear
hurts, I can't play. But it's the one Domino man that I think
about a lot, because without him, I don't think a lot of the
other stuff really matters. And that's crazy for a guy that averages like ten
and four. Yeah, look, anything below the max, I would sign
him to an a heartbeat. And if it's the max, I might understand
them saying, well, then we're just gonna wait to sign you. But
I always worry when you're already tapped out, like the good will just build
it with the player who's this important. And I think, look, I
don't want to get into whether Devin Vesselle will be better long term. I'm
very I love Devin vessel another favorite of this podcast, but he has never
shown what Jayden has on defense, and there have been flashes that Jayden has
shown on offense that Devin Misselle has not shown the same level of defense of
lockdown flashes. And he also just doesn't have the physical tools that Jade McDaniels
does, just the sheer size. So if if he costs more, yes,
the scoring won't be there, the assist numbers won't even be there.
Devin Vecelle's getting a shit ton more ball screens thrown at him and Jane McDaniels
is so if I were the Wolves, I wouldn't mess around with it.
But it actually makes me uneasy that you think it won't get done. I
know it's red for agency, they have all the control, but this just
feels like one of those no brainer situations, and it's like you're just gonna
what are you gonna your maxim now or your maxim later? What's the difference.
It does seem like a no brainer. I have no additional smart analysis
to put there, because the one thing that Wolves fans lean on if this
experiment doesn't work and yes, the draft capitol and stuff. A smart team
will still give you something for Carl and a smart team will probably give you
at least a little something for Rudy. But there's a chance. I mean,
everyone loves the Tatum Brown stuff. It's like, oh, the best
two way, you know, just built like Ant and Jane are twenty three
and twenty two and usually the best player in the league. Aren't the best
player in the league until twenty five, twenty six, Like we could be
three years away from that being the best duo in the league. You'll figure
out everything else around it. But yeah, this team cannot afford to lose
Jane McDaniels, and they've already shown how much they covet him by being basically
being like, we'll give up every legal first round pick we can to make
sure that we don't lose him. Uh. You mentioned Nikil Alexander Walker before,
and I'm asking this because it matters most because my co host is obsessed
with him. He was very impressive when he came over from the trade in
Utah. I thought his defensive pressure was great for them. What is the
key though, to him kind of fitting in on offense? And are they
I think you alluded to this. It seems like they might rely on him
for a little bit more complicated offensive usage just given their lack of a discernible
backup floor general structure. There you go. The best thing, Nikil ol
I know we love stats. I know we love data and basketball reference on
stuff. The best thing Nakil Alexander Walker has going for him is just up
here. I think he gave the best quotes at media Day. He is
a thirty eight year old in a twenty five or twenty six year old's body.
He has more than most. And again, think of all the guys
we cover manner we've watched out the years that don't get it. I mean,
Nakai Alexander Walker came in as a pretty high lottery pick, high prospect
in New Orleans and it just never worked. Ironically, that first year in
New Orleans, his one of his coaches, not his head coach, but
one of his coaches was Chris Finch. Chris Finch was the guy pounding the
table at the trade deadline to be like, don't just get Mike Conley throw?
And I think they were talking about like Rudy Gay or another player like
no, no, I want n to Kiel. He obviously has a big
summer with Team Canada, but he just sounds so mature and he knows like,
I'm not gonna be that guy, and I'm never going to be the
guard that maybe you drafted tenth overall five years ago. I just want to
be a contributor. I want to be another kind of Swiss army knife type
guy. So he's been great. They'll be able to play. I mean,
in the two preseason games against Dallas, first night, Ant didn't play
because of an ankle. Second night, Jane didn't play. Finch just plugged
him in at both spots. So when doesn't start, Nikil starts. When
Jade doesn't start, Nikil starts. So he can give you a little of
what Anne could give you offensively. He can give you a little bit what
Jayden does defensively. But to me, as much as I rave about Nasried
and Kyle Anderson and Shake Milton, if you were like, I don't think
any Wolf's player will win six Men of the Year because they'll cannibalize themselves.
But if you had to pick one, it would be Nikiel because I think
even though he won't start Dan at the end of the Year. Nikil will
be top five and total minutes played on this team because I just think he's
going to be able to play next to Ant, play in place with Jayden.
He's just he does a lot. I mean, again, small sample
sizes. The Nuggets killed everyone, but like he might have given Jamal Murray
the toughest test in the playoffs when they played the playing game against Shae in
the Thunder. Obviously they're related, but he also kind of did the best
to shut down Shay. So he's kind of an untapped guy that we're all
probably like, oh, I remember when he got drafted. He's a bust.
He's twenty five. I think he's got a lot left in him and
he gets what his role is. And man, I don't know how much
you believe in that's stuff, but like hierarchy and just knowing your role to
me is sometimes more important than just raw talent. Yeah. I think it's
like when you understand that you need to be more plug in player scalable rather
than you know, he had a ball a lot at some of his other
stops, and I kind of enjoyed his on ball stuff because it was so
chaotic and unpredictable, right, like not very rarely in a good way.
So if he's willing to just make quicker decisions, which if you can absorb
that from Mike Conley through osmosis, that would be great. Maybe hit some
like relocation threes or something like those set threes would be huge for him,
and just attack an open space and maybe make quicker passes out of drives.
Like there's just the outline based off what he's done defensively of like a really
really impactful NBA player that they just got on a freaking steal when you look
at his when you look at his deal, and so he's he's like a
feels like a sneaky swing peep from ten thousand feet away. If you ask,
well, who aren't people talking about enough on this team, it's probably
like, well, like you, Alexander Walker might just be like this really
big swing piece, especially if you believe the bench is going to be even
better than it was last season. Yeah, I just again, he's a
plug and play I like the scalable I'm gonna steal that, Like, I
just think he can do a lot of That's kind of what you want in
your bench sometimes, right, you just want guys that can come in and
give you a little bit of a couple other guys that are, you know,
better at what they do, but they're sitting on the bench. Like,
if he can come in and hit a couple of threes, his shot
has been reformed as well. It does not look like the shot that you
saw when he entered the league. And if he can at least be honest.
I mean, he hit a couple of threes during the playing time in
early against Denver that like helped them win games. I know they played all
five games against the Nuggets, but like he hit a couple of big shots.
He is fearless, and I just think again, to have a twenty
six year old that's like already a vet or a mentor for the young guys.
I know, we might talk about a couple other young guys here too,
Like it's just really important for this team because it's not just all twenty
twenty year olds and old dudes like Rudy and Kyle. You got some mix
in there, Like, Hey, I've I've been high drafted, I've I've
had my lumps before, but this is kind of how you recover and fit
a role because that's kind of what these guys are doing right, Like,
that's why some guys don't have jobs early in their careers, is they don't
appreciate or understand the he knows what Finch's giving him. They have a trust
factor, and I think, yeah, I think he's a big, big,
big part of what they're trying to do. Uh this season. This
section might be more for me than anyone else because I know absolutely nothing about
the players I'm about to ask you about the extent of my knowledge, I
wanted to ask you about just a couple of their young guys, your impressions
of them, what their futures are with this team. The extent of my
knowledge on Leonard Miller is you were on one of your podcasts saying that you
are all in on Leonard Miller. Basically, can you tell can you give
me the lowdown on Leonard Miller. So I want to preface this by saying,
when you when you give up what you give up to get Rudy Gobert,
you put yourself in a situation where the microscope is just like you have
to hit the margins and the fringes. So when you don't have first round
picks like you got to hit those second rounders. Josh may not was the
first second round pick of the Tim Connolly era. Just a six' ten
uh. He looks just like when you watch this like the animal videos of
a baby giraffe where not all their arms are connected to like the rest of
their torso he is that long and just I mean he's twenty so but he's
super athletic. He's so long. I don't know if he's like a like
gonna be a Jade McDaniels, or if he's gonna be like a really light
concinct. Times he can't really shoot, but he's just so athletic. And
again, he's just not every young prospect that's twenty in the second round hits,
but he just does a lot of stuff. And then in that same
draft, you know they draft Walker Kessler, they sent him out that they
draft Wendell Moore junior out of Duke. He's twenty two now, as high
as I am on Josh Maynott, who we've deemed the lawnmower because he's just
let you know, once he gets going, he doesn't stop. Wendell Moore,
I don't know what he does, and I don't like to be super
critical players, but like, you got to have one skill that you can
tell the coach, like I can give you that. I don't know what
Wendell Moore's skill is. He's not big, he's not super athletic. He
had twenty two good minutes guarding John Morant and a spot start last year,
but can't space the floor, doesn't get to the rim. So of those
three young guys in the in the Timberwolves cupboard, he's the least likely to
really do anything. And then Leonard Miller, a nineteen year old kid,
played for the G League Ignite last year. I saw him play when Wemby
was over here and they were playing you know Scoot Henderson in that Vegas showcase.
He's just an amazing for nineteen years old. He's an elite rebounder.
He got to play last night in some minutes. I think he had like
twenty two points fifteen rebounds. He just is a natural rebounder. He also
just does a lot of if you want to camp Dan and I don't love
comps, but I also kind of subconsciously love comps. He's got a lot
of lamar outaminum. And yes he's also left handed, but he just Lamar
wasn't the best shooter, He wasn't really the best at anything, but he
just did a ton of stuff that like, if anyone on this team had
a chance to give you a five by five or a five and five like
box score with five steels five blocks, like, it would be Leonard Miller
because he's just kind of everywhere. He's learning how to play defense. But
if you were investing in playing cards of any of those three guys, I'd
buy a couple Leonard Miller cards. Wow. And is there even like a
path, Like what is the pathway? Nope? Yeah, no path,
No, no path this year because I gave you nine I told you how
this team will be nine deep, and I no offense to Troy Brown Junior
from the Lakers, but like I don't know how he plays, he would
be tenth. They also this is real, real basketball nerd stuff. But
like Luca Garza is one of the best G League players of all time out
of Iowa. He's twenty four. Now he might be like an NBA player.
He's gotten really lean. So now you have another big man, another
center. I think the Iowa Wolves could make the play in tournament, Like
that's their League team, Like, they just have so many guys that are
gonna be on this Iowa Wolves team and it'll be led by Leonard Miller and
Josh Minu. But if you're thinking long term and you're like, what is
this team gonna do when they reach cap Hell, Leonard Miller, Josh Minaut,
Luca Garza, all these kind of big, multi talented, young cheap
players, that might be what the next iteration of this looks like is when
Anton Jayder making max money and they're the Corrier team and you have one of
Rudy and Carl, then you just plug in these weird young animal power forwards.
They can do a lot of weird stuff and just give you energy.
I mean, Josh Mina and London Miller have a lot of Jared Vanderbilt in
him and the Wolves looked really good that one year when Jared Vanderbilt was playing
a lot of four. So that might be what they envision long term,
But short term, if you're like, oh, I can't wait to watch
these guys play and see if that kid knows what he's talking about, you'll
never see him play. They'll never play this season, and it's not because
they're bad it's because I think the Wolves are also one of just the deeper
teams in the league when you look one through nine to one through ten.
Is it like cano Josh might not do anything that might just change that on
the phrase it does it come down to his shot and also his name I'm
convinced was like a character from Raven Claw and Harry Potter. Yeah, Josh
might not just sounds like that. Yeah, No, No, I think
he can give you some time behind Jaden if you need to just kind of
like be out there and be he he when again, I talk about the
Giraft thing, like the way he navigates screens right now, he's not big
enough or strong enough or has like the core strength to like he kind of
gets bumped off. But then he just because he's so long, he's got
to be one of the longer players in the league. Dan Like, he
just recovers. It doesn't look like how you would teach it or coach it,
but oh my god, he just recovered and he's back in the play.
So I think they will definitely all be break Glass in case of emergency.
With Leonard Miller, I could see them being like, oh my god,
we lost Carl again, and now Nas is out with the hamstring.
We just need to rebound. Of all the young guys the Wolves have that
won't play. Leonard Miller has one skill that tomorrow will translate. He'll go
in there and just get you rebounds. And that's kind of like what Vando
did too, So he can shoot better than Josh. He's got a lot
of things to work on. Again, he's nineteen. Let's just close our
eyes and see what he's like at twenty two. But in Tim Connley's defense,
after he made what a lot of people deem is one of the worst
trades ever, he follows it up with the nikkiel Conley Dilo trade and then
he's just that's kind of what he did in Denver too, right. I
mean, the best player in the league was a second round pick. I
don't think Josh or Leonard will be Nicole Jokic, but he was great.
It just he loves to scout and he loves to find those hidden gems and
crossing our fingers in Minnesota. That that's that's what Leonard Miller and josh Mine
are. I'm so old. Let's trade everybody. Leonar Miller's Leonard Miller is
a good, good hang, a weird cat, just really into like anime.
And I mean he's been in the league for two months and he gets
rides from games with like Matt Ryan, Like I don't know if he has
a car yet. Matt Ryan the basketball player, not the Fordmer quarterbacks.
So uh, a good collection of guys, and I'm excited to see some
of those young guys kind of develop. We've reached the cookie cutter portion of
the podcast. Are you ready to Yeah, let's do it. Are there
any strengths, weaknesses, concerns, storylines about this team flying under the radar
that we just haven't discussed yet. Yeah. I mean a weakness would be
that the Minnesota Timberwolves. I mean, and they haven't never like really been
able to maintain success, Like I don't know, I was looking up to
O the day. I don't think they've had a seven game or more win
streak since like two thousand and three. That seems impossible. They'd I don't
win fifty games a lot, They don't handle expectations a lot. They fought
each other on national TV last year. But they also and this is this
would then be like a strength, but also maybe a weakness they're under,
like a new ownership. It's been a weird one, right like when the
Suns running new ownership, it seemed like it happened overnight. The Wolves have
been how when I was in college, I'd buy like Christmas gifts from my
family, Like I would put money down in September and then make payments every
month until I could go pick it up in December. They've been on a
layaway plan Mark Laurie, who most people don't know, but he's a rich
dude. And then Alex Rodriguez, who I think a lot of people know.
That's supposed to wrap up this December. It might leak into March,
but the hope would be that they're majority owners by the end of this season.
They have had a lot of influence on changes made. They went out
and went, you know, as they say, big game, hunting to
get it Tim Connolly. They also had a large influence on the Rudy go
Beartrade, right like this asset we bought made the playoffs. Things are fun,
let's take it to the next level automatically. So they've done some good
things, they've done some bad things. They've also done just a lot of
good stuff behind the scenes that this team needed to become more modern and have
more modern facilities and access to fans and all that stuff. But if the
ownership thing for some reason falls through mid season, I mean, the way
we've described it a lot, Dan is like everything is going really really well.
We're not really used to that. And like in Ricky Bobby the movie
when they're at Applebee's and like, the vibes are great, the families having
a dinner and the dad's like, you know what, I'm not used to
good vibes, Like let me mess this up. That's what I'm concerned about,
is like, who's going to mess up what is good vibes and a
good roster and a good coaching staff, And it could be ownership, which
depending on how you consume sports, like, I think ownership is like an
under talked about but really important thing because they play a big impact. So
if they can land the plane of a Rod and Mark Laurie becoming the owners,
the first thing that I think will translate is they'll get Kevin Garnett's jersey
retired. The vibes will be immaculate. They'll have him back in the fold.
That'll help with free agent signings, keeping guys around, because you'll have
the best player in franchise history in players ears and around the facilities. So
that's that's for weirdos and nerds. But I mean, I didn't even that's
not even something I just considered it about. I'm sure it's been written about
and I just missed it. Which is like the fact that the ownership regime
James would facilitate like Kevin Garnett just coming back. Yeah, And I mean
if you think about the Wolves, everyone knows that Kevin Garnett is the best
player of all time, in one of their only good players of all time.
But yeah, he won't he just won't he That jersey retirement won't happen.
I mean, it's embarrassing. It's truly embarrassing as a Timberwolves fan that
he had his jersey retired by the Celtics before the Wolves. And I know
he won a title with the Celtics. But he will, he will,
you know, his shrine or whatever will have a Wolf's jersey on. So,
but it won't happen until they're very old. Owner Glenn Taylor, who
does get credit for keeping the team in Minnesota during some tumultuous times, but
like just is not forward thinking. He's a he olwns like newspaper companies and
stuff, so he's more of an old school guy. They got to get
him out, they gotta get kg in. They got to land this plane.
And then that'll just emphasize I mean, whatever you think about Tim Conley,
he's beloved by the players. He's good with relationships, he's good negotiating
with agents. So I like a lot of the stuff they've done. But
if they can't make their final couple of payments, it's you know, we're
gonna be at Applebee's and our dad's gonna be making a scene, so it's
gonna suck. Uh. So you had mentioned that the it feels like there's
nine rotation spots locked and that if we're gonna go deep into the to the
ten man, I apparently when I was filling this out forgot Troy Brown Junior
existed. Maybe I'm still salty that Torrian Prince isn't here, but like,
is there just if you're trying to predict the top ten most players who play
on this team, Like, is it just it's Aunt Conley, Jade McDaniel's
cat Rudy, Nas Kyle, Gnaw, Shake Milton, and Troy Brown Junior.
Like, are those ten spots just unlock? Yeah? No notes,
but that's it, Like you you did it better than I could. I
think. Again, back to that inflexible starting five, like I can't imagine
they would ever I mean politically or just imagined on NBA Twitter if like there
was an announcement that the Wolves were not going to be starting towns anymore like
that, they would get just crushed for that. So Mike, Aunt,
Jayden, Carlin, Rudy is going to be what they start as many games
as possible. Obviously, Mike might only give you sixty games. I hope
he only gives you sixty regular season games. You can kind of keep them
fresh for the playoffs. And then what I think, and again I know
I have a bias, but when you look at who their four kind of
core bench pieces are, Shake, Milton, the Keel, Kyle, and
Nasried, I think that's a really well balanced amount of like some guys that
can score, some guys that can defend, some guys that can playmake just
some guys that are crazy like nas Reids. So it's the best bench they've
ever had, which obviously makes sense because I said they're super deep, but
uh yeah, and then Troy Brown Junior, you know, his shot has
fallen in the preseason, so maybe he is another guy that you can throw
him out there and just stretches the floor. I also think he could have
nights with just dnps. So I think it's a firm ten and even firmer
nine. And then as I call like the third stringers the Butler brigade,
those guys are rarely gonna play, They're gonna crush in Iowa, and then
maybe during a weird week in February you'll pull one up. But yeah,
I think I think it's easy to predict who the Wolves rotation would be.
It'll just come down to minutes and how they get allocated on a night by
night basis. You mentioned inflexibility when it comes to the starting five. Is
there that same level of inflexibility when you're looking at what will be their most
used crunch time unit or could we see them maybe futs and fiddle depending on
certain matchups. I don't know, Man, this pot's gone pretty well.
I don't want really think about that because that comes into like the politics of
it is like ye. I keep coming back to, like, what if
every other five man lineup on this team is awesome, but the starters,
I mean, the Wolves have been dealt with that before. It's like are
you able to close? You know, the politics thing of like not starting
a guy as big and everyone will make fun of it online, but it
will also get made fun of if, like for a whole week you don't
close with Rudy, but like, we'll Finch be empowered enough and it's a
really I think he has the most ingredients, but I think he's got one
of the toughest kitchen jobs in the league, of like are you empowered enough
to make those moves? He does control that locker room. The guys love
him. But if you don't close with Carl for back to back games and
you lose those games on buzzer beaters, like it's called gon be like,
well, you know what the hell, man, you should have closed with
me. So I have a gun to my head. I know who they're
starting. Gun to my head. I have no idea who they're going to
close with, because I think you can do so many different things. They
always close with Kyle because he was so good in late game situations of just
like getting you a good shot and not allowing Ant to like just go super
io, which he's good at, but that's not how you want to win
basketball games. And if you're gonna close with Kyle, who are you not
going to close with? Right? Like maybe Mike? But uh I when
they kicked or tip off a week from now against the Toronto Raptors, who
they close with, who they close with against the Heat a couple of nights
later, like that would probably be the number one thing I cannot wait to
see because you're not going to show those cards against Macabee, you know,
team from Israel last night, or against the MAVs in Abu Dhabi. But
you're gonna show those cards the first night. So that is the number one
burning quies for me is how do they close? Not? How do they
start? Lighter? Fair? Is there a weirdo unconventional? Maybe they won't
try it. They probably won't try it, but they should try it.
Lineup, you'd like to see them roll out well, I mean just like
a weird I just again, size matters, like it'll be cool to see
a weird they can they have so much length, it's not just side or
hype, but like they could play Nakiel Aunt Jaden, Josh Maynott Rudy like
they could that team could maybe have an extremely awesome defensive rating and only be
able to score because Ant hits thirty five footers on offense. But I hope
early on, as much as we think, or at least in the fan
base, we think this team could is built to win a lot of regular
season games. It remains to be seen if they can handle the postseason pressure,
but I don't. I hope that early on Finch is open to like
trying different things and not emphasizing like we have to win that game on November
third, Like let's just let's get weird, right, Like let's get weird
for a little bit, because I think the depth will really come into play
after Christmas, when you know this cover in the league, there is a
real, you know, inverse Bell curve of when teams just kind of start
to not care for a while because it's cold everywhere they go and they're tired.
I think that team should use their depth to win those games, and
early on, like maybe give Leonard Miller a shot, right, or just
try these little things. But I really think that they have so many veterans
and high paid guys that you're just basically the minnesot Chimboles will basically have nine
and a half players that you watch this year, and the rest of them
you'll have to tune into the G League. You convince me to change mine
by talking about Leonard Miller. So, and there's no way that they'd ever
have almost eighty million dollars worth of bigs on the bench. But give me
nas Reed, Leonard Miller, give mkhel and Jade McDaniels, so give me
that. I just want to see. I just want to see what happens,
even just for a little bit, I would love to see it.
I'm totally with you. If anyone listening to me ramble about this team that
has been a bottom dweller for three decades. If you take anything away from
this, just watch Leondard Miller highlights weird Doo plays weird. But he might
have a chance to just truly, I don't want to say this because I'm
a fan, but I think he's a chance to kind of be special.
But it might not be until, like I don't know, three years from
now. As we record this, the Timberwolves are in the vaunted forty four
and a half win over under a club which feels like half the league is
in. Would you take the over or the under on that? I don't
know how much of a March madness fan you are, but like when it's
early March and they're starting to build the bracket and they do like the blind
resume thing, they just take the team names off and like this is what
their resume is. You don't get to know who is who. If you
took Timberwolves, which is a bad brand, off of this, I don't
know how you would say under. I mean, they just have so much
talent. Yes, they have some things to work on. They're like,
well, I don't know if that's gonna work. Yeah, man, I
don't know if Chris Paul can start with that Warriors team. Right. There's
a lot of like can those Lakers stay healthy? Do the Nuggets care?
Or the Jazz? I heard the Jazz or that they have like they have
a top ten pick. They got to kind of play around with, like
are some of these teams gonna cut bait early and try to tank or so
I just think this team, with the expectations they have, with the depth
they have, if nothing else is gonna win a lot of regular season games,
and maybe they get embarrassed to get in the playoffs, but I'm over.
I know forty four and a half represents more of like the West is
weird from Team two to Team I don't know thirteen. Uh. But the
one thing that's been cool, and again not everyone's seen it because it was
Abu Dabi and stuff, but they've really handled the preseason like adults. And
I know that sounds funny because last year everyone was punching everyone and everything,
but it's been a collective like mantra for them in like public statements and like
media day and stuff. Is like Kyle Anderson's been really outfront about I was
immature last year, and I want these guys to be more mature. So
I understand the Timberwolves brand always lets you down. No one knows it better
than me. They've been around as long as I have. But uh,
if you take that stink away, this roster, this coaching staff, this
front office, they're gonna get more than forty four and a half wins.
I went over as well when we do over under podcast, and they actually
might have been the easiest decision for me. It's like that if forty four
and a half to feel is way too low for this team based off even
the small data we have with their five man union with Mike Conley's in there,
I'm just I'm still I'm so I'm skeptical, but I'm mostly just sold.
And you kind of touched upon this. The West is so wide open.
We've talked about it so much on this pod. How many teams,
which teams would you guarantee are actually better than the Timberwolves when the regular season
is said and done. That's a great question Denver, because I just think
I kind of like how they drafted older rookies and stuff that can plug and
play. I think the Denver Nuggets with a healthier Jamal Murray stuff, I
do think they will win a lot of games. I'm not a Lakers guy,
but that's again think of my biases. Half their roster's former Timberwolves players
that used to be the Minneapolis Lakers. I pray on their demise, but
I also know they're really good, So I think they have a high ceiling
but also a low floor. Right if Ad drops or Lebron doesn't play a
bunch of games Outside that, Dan and I know I'm wearing a Wolve's hat.
Basically, I don't know who I would put gun to my head.
Is guaranteed to be better, right, like Golden State, the Clippers,
the MAVs, the Kings. I see it from all those teams, and
they have a better brand amongst casual NBA fans, But they also have a
ton of holes. I mean, like the Kings, I loved watching them
play last year, but no team has ever been that healthy, right.
I don't say that to their fans. Did you know that they invented playing
hurt? No, And I'm not here to pick fights with anyone. I'm
just saying, like every team, every team has a floor that could have
a trap door they could fall out that it really goes bad for them barring
injuries. I mean, you saw it last year. We thought call Tour's
achilles, and the team made the playoffs. That's not what we're used to.
You know, it's because of the depth. So other than maybe An't
getting hurt, which again, knock on wood, he's been really durable.
I just don't see a trapdoor in their floor. So even if something goes
a little awry or a rotation doesn't work, or a guy gets hurt.
They just have so many plug and play backup guys that I think this team
will again win forty five or more games. I'm kind of hunting for like
a top four seed in the West so they can I cannot stress you enough
how not fun it is to have your favorite team tied to playing tournaments every
year. Like not cool, Like just get in and we'll be fine.
Yeah, I don't think outside of Denver and maybe the Lakers, I think
every other team in the West has a bunch of question marks just as much
as they have strength. I'm very surprised that you are way higher on the
Lakers than I am. I only have it. Yeah, yeah, I
only have two top teams in the West and there's all. But you're you're
so right about every team has like these things that can the floor can fall.
Even Denver, they stretch six players deep, and like, what if
this is the year Nicole Jokic isn't asdorable? But I have them there,
and then I'm a big Phoenix guy. I think, yeah, that's fair,
that's fair. But also Kevin Durant just doesn't play as much anymore.
Bradley Beal's dealt with some injuries. But is that because he played for the
Washington thirty five wins or because he was actually hurt, Like, I don't
know. My final question to you that I kind of just thought of,
is how committed are they to seeing this season through? Like if they do
start poorlier, if this season goes off the rails, is there a chance
I'm not even saying it needs to be the bigs, but they are the
ones under the microscope. Is there a chance there's a mid season shakeup or
is this more of a off season recalibration situation if things do not go according
to plan, I think things would have to go so south that they make
a move in season. I don't know. I have my own perspective on
sometimes when I think a player like I don't think Rudy Gobert goes for what
Rudy Gobert goes for in season. I do think when you mean again,
you cover the team or the league long enough and you get to know people.
When you get into the off season, Dan and like, not a
lot else is going on and these executives are bored, I think you can
usually make bigger trades and recoup more value. So if you're trying to unload
a Carl. I think he's probably more valuable in July than he is in
February. But I don't think this goes back to I know they paid a
lot to get Rudy, and I know they've invested a lot in Carl as
the first overall pay I don't think Tim Conley is married to anything other than
Anthony Edwards and then one be Jade McDaniels. So I'd be shocked if a
move was made in this season, even if things are a little wonky.
But we are also just trying to embrace this roster and this franchise and have
some fun because that second Apron stuff I don't really want to talk about right
now because I'm more so in denial. Is next summer, like this team
is going to be up against as many others will, a financial situation where
it's like you actually can't do this again, you can't run it back again,
you have to trade someone. So I expect a big move in the
next twelve months. I don't expect a big move in the next four months.
I'm with you. I just wondered if Karl Anthony Town's is salary jumping
by thirteen million over the Yeah, that's fair too. That make it.
And then you're talking about the second second aprin not just for the Wold,
but like the teams that are interested in towns, like are they going to
have the same concern? So, Kyle, is there anything I didn't ask
or anyone I didn't ask you about over the last seventy five minutes that you
think we need to touch upon before I let you go? No, I,
like I told you before recording, I've never gotten an agenda before a
podcast that was this thorough. So that's part of the reason why this podcast
is so awesome. But no, I think you know, in general,
if you want a good I know Zach Low does his League Pass rankings and
he did eleven through thirty the other day. The Wolves weren't on it,
so I didn't read it yet. I do think the Timberwolves are a top
ten League Pass team. If you're a basketball officionano that just likes to tune
in and watch some good games. We all are aware locally and nationally now
and internationally about Anthony Edwards. I think he's must watch TV if he comes
through your city. I think he's a guy that you want to go watch
because at any night he could give you fifty He could you know, completely
post raze a guy. So it's really a fun time to be a Wolves
fan. We have scar tissue that will never go away, but I think
it's about as about as again I'm just knocking on anything that's a hard surface.
It's about as positive and as optimistic as I think any fan, even
Cynics, have been on this franchise in a while. So it's it's exciting
time killed the turns of phrase throughout this podcast, very like Will dropping one
hundred stuff. Thank you so much earlier time you're able just to tell our
listeners where they can find you and all the great work that you do.
Yeah. I do a podcast a couple times a week. It's called Flagrant
Howls Dumb pun on Flagrant Files over at Score North. I am on Twitter
at Kyle Taigi, and then I helped produce the Dane Mormbay podcast, which
I think, like you said at the Rip, is one of the better.
He gets it. He's a beat reporter, but he just covers the
team audio rather than with written word. It is so good. The amount
of times I cite that podcast on this podcast is just so it is.
What you guys do over there is spectacular. I know you said you expanded
kind of the operations with producers and social guys, so that's really exciting.
Yeah. I mean, but as you know better than anyone, like we're
trying to get into YouTube. I'm not an old person. I'm in my
young to mid thirties. But also, like when someone's like you should start
a TikTok for Dane's podcasts, like that sounds scary. So we're on TikTok,
we're on Instagram, we're on YouTube. But yeah, we're a couple
of pods. You know, we're just trying to cover the team from different
angles. What I do with Dane is a lot more analytical what I do
over at score North and just a lifestyle podcast. But yeah, the team
has a small market and a small batch of people covering it. But Wolve's
Twitter is also a pretty friendly place. I know, you know this,
like other fan bases might not be. I think Wolves Twitter is a pretty
It might not be like the Hawaii, but it's a comfortable spot for you
to come visit if you want to just hang out one night. A lot
of cool creative content, people and stuff, so come Visit might not be
your first destination, but it's a good spot. Just like the Wolves,
they might not be the best team, but I think they could be a
pretty solid place for you to hang out these next six or seven months.
I will include the links to both of Kyle's podcasts in the YouTube and podcast
description, So go subscribe and show your support. Kyle, you gave me
eighty minutes. Basically, I very much appreciate your time and rest asshured obvious
spamming your dms again in the future, I appreciate you. Everyone should subscribe
to this pod becaust a lot. We get a lot from Dan's pot as
well, So Dan, you're a legend and we'll talk again soon