WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:11.599 Hey, everybody, welcome to Coming Out Pod. Y'all. Okay, thematic 2 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:19.640 queer root shout out today in honor of our guest's name, Shout out to 3 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:26.280 you if your queer root is Carmen from the original L Word, played by 4 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:33.880 actress Sarah Shahe who is famously a straight lady but yeah, played this character 5 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.159 then went on to play another queer character on a different show. This was 6 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.119 like in the early odds, they were trying to make us believe that queer 7 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:45.719 women looked a certain way, like Olivia Wilde was playing a bunch of queer 8 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:50.719 characters, Sarah Shahi was. They were going for a thing we've since sort 9 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:56.280 of scaled back into, perhaps more a realistic, diverse take of what queer 10 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:00.640 women look like. But Carmen on the L Word was like at the scene 11 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.799 and people were psyched. She was a hot lady. So shout out to 12 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:08.480 you if she is your queer root. Uh. Yes, So today on 13 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:15.519 the podcast we have Carmen Legela. Hi, Carmon, what's up? Lauren? 14 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.239 Thank you for having me, Thank you for going on. So Carmen 15 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:25.920 is a stand up comedian and a podcast Carmen did did having a person on 16 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:30.200 the outward named Carmen. Did that like register with you? Were you a 17 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.359 wee baby when that came out? Did it? Did not even know? 18 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.840 I was probably like even too old. When did that come out? It 19 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:42.719 was early US, right like two thousand and I should know my history. 20 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.640 It was something like that. I did not see it. I didn't have 21 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.079 any channels. I kind of grew up in like the Woods, and we 22 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:59.159 didn't really to pay to see Queer Woman. That was like a pre rag. 23 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.159 I remember hearing about it, but I did not have access to it 24 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:07.599 two thousand and four. I would have been in colleage or Yeah. It 25 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.719 was like the show was like a very season one. It was like a 26 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.719 very very white show, shockingly, and so I feel like what then they 27 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:20.240 like brought on like their Mexican character and they're like, let's give her the 28 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.080 most Like I feel like someone was like Carmen Miranda, and they were like, 29 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.800 yes, go for it. They were like, look what we're doing. 30 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:32.039 We heard you listened, But god, yeah she was a very beautiful, 31 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:36.560 very beautiful. It is a very beautiful lady. I'm acting like she's 32 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:42.919 dead. She's not. She's doing peace. So yeah, so uh, 33 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:46.719 carbon we had said off, Mike, I think you just recorded. Is 34 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:50.840 it your first stand up album that's gonna be out? Yes, first album 35 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:53.759 and special. Yeah, we'll get the I'm gonna I'm editing it. I 36 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:59.159 just got back from editing right now. Yeah, I gotta put it together 37 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:00.840 and then shop but around a little bit, see if anyone wants to buy 38 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.520 it. I'm probably just going to put it on YouTube on my channel. 39 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:10.039 Yes, yeah, very cool. And you're in brook You're in New York. 40 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:15.599 I am in Brooklyn. Yeah. Nice, look at me retaining information, 41 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:21.879 little pat on the back. So yeah, covered before we sort of 42 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:28.919 go into everything for the folks at home. How do you identify as pan 43 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:35.000 sexual? Yeah? That's like a recent word. I feel like kind of 44 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:39.120 yeah it is? Is that? Did you identify as by and switch over 45 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:43.120 to pan or did you always This might be part of the story, so 46 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.199 I might be jumping ahead, but I didn't identify as by. I didn't 47 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:53.639 I identify it as straight or just like it never came up until yeah, 48 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:55.759 until I started like I've been in well yeah, and now I'm like, 49 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:59.520 am I skipping ahead by saying that? No? No, no, that's 50 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:01.599 perfect. Let's go into it. Yeah, let's go into it. But 51 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:05.960 yeah, yeah, I've been in so many like relationships back to back to 52 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:11.759 back with men that there was never a time for me to explore anything else, 53 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:15.919 to even like think about it that much. I really just swang from 54 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:19.319 relationship to relationship, serial monogamous. Does that rescue with you at all? 55 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.399 That? Yes? Okay, gotcha? Gotcha? So wait where did you 56 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:26.480 Where did you grow up? What's what's your family? I grew up in 57 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:33.000 Vermont, which is such a like yes, it's it's like the perfect Like 58 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:43.120 most of my close friends growing up came out after high school and yeah, 59 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.959 I'm just like looking back at like times we hung out when I'm like what 60 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:48.720 about this boy? And They're like, I guess whatever, whatever you think 61 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:54.360 anyway, Like I'm like, I'm sleeping over it, just like stupid. 62 00:04:54.839 --> 00:05:00.720 I just completely went over my head the entire time. Yeah, I yeah, 63 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:04.279 I don't know if I considered it until late but like Vermont like was 64 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:11.439 I had like my one of my best friend's mothers split up with her husband 65 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.800 and started dating a woman, So it was not an unknown thing even in 66 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:19.560 like the nineties for Vermont to have lesbian couples. I'm sure there were gay 67 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.800 couples as well, though I can't really think of any that were out per 68 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.959 se, maybe not until high school. But again, I was like a 69 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.920 kid, so probably nobody was really talking to me about that kind of stuff, 70 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.000 but it was never a thing. It's a yeah. Vermont is just 71 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:40.519 so warm and accepting of that kind of thing. I think it was the 72 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:46.720 first state to allow civil unions, so it's growing up. It was just 73 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:56.240 very sick I am in high school. My freshman year, my sister spread 74 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:59.720 a rumor in my house that I was a lesbian. And you know, 75 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.720 there's it's just me, my mom, your own dad, my own in 76 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:08.240 your homes rumor in the house, and there's only a few of us. 77 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:15.240 Yeah, it got around pretty quick, you know, that I was that 78 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:19.439 I was into women, and I I think it's because I wore a lot 79 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:25.120 of sports bras. I didn't nobody took me bras shopping until I asked, 80 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:30.639 like later on. So I just was sporty all the time, just always 81 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.680 playing sports and in sports outfits. And I don't know why she said that, 82 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:39.439 Uh yeah, did you guys like not get along or something like? 83 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.120 Was she doing it like in a malicious way or was she just like, 84 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:46.480 I think I'm helping. I think she thought she like nailed it, you 85 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:53.560 know, because I didn't have boyfriends until much later in high school, maybe 86 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:59.000 like senior year, I think I had my first relationship. So I don't 87 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:00.800 know. I don't think she was doing it maliciously because my parents like even 88 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.360 like sat me down and were like, we're okay with this, you know, 89 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:10.800 And I had to come out to them as straight, which was wild. 90 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:14.279 I was like, oh, we are pushing for a queer coming. 91 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:17.959 Wow. That okay, wait, that's really interesting. I don't know if 92 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.680 I've heard well, I've probably heard this before. I've done like almost an 93 00:07:20.680 --> 00:07:28.439 answered episodes. But so you got outed as queer and corrected it came out 94 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:30.399 as straight, and then later in your life had to come out as you 95 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:39.480 exactly at least exactly. But at that age you really didn't. Was there 96 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:42.920 any part of you that thought it might be true that you think like looking 97 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:45.879 back, you were repressing or do you think at that age you like really 98 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:49.199 genuinely didn't think there was anything there and so you were like no, I'm 99 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:56.199 not like, thank you for your acceptance, but not necessary. I don't 100 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:01.279 think I was consciously thinking about any of that. I don't know. I 101 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:07.720 mean I do. My first sexual experience was with a girl when I was 102 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:16.800 like young young, oh yeah, yeah, like six years old. I 103 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:20.399 was trying to play a game called We Tickle each Other's private parts basically, 104 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.240 and she was like no, thank you, and I was like, okay, 105 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:28.040 weirdo. It was like it feels really good. Yeah, Like I 106 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:30.480 don't know why you wouldn't want to play this game with me, Megan. 107 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:35.279 So yeah, I had like I was a pretty sexual child starting at a 108 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:39.279 very young age. Nothing happened to me or anything. I just was very 109 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:48.000 consciously aware of sexuality. Yeah, that an there's no at six, you 110 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:52.879 have no idea that like there's anything. Yeah, not that there's anything wrong 111 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:58.799 about it, but it's just really interesting that you were like there's no shame. 112 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:01.200 What I'm going to say, like, there's no shame attached to it, 113 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:07.639 and it just depends like are you clear like that kid probably not queer 114 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:09.639 and was like I don't want to play this game, but there's no like 115 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.080 judgment placed on the idea of like I think, I don't know, I'm 116 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:18.559 talking like I understand kids and I I actually I did have deep shame, 117 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:22.279 and I don't know where it came from. It took me into deep shame. 118 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.600 Mm hmm. Every time I would masturbate, I would feel terrible afterwards. 119 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:33.960 Oh okay, somebody general. Yeah, sex related shame, not like 120 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:39.320 queer specific, but just anything sexual. Yeah, interesting because I had Yeah, 121 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.000 I had like sex dreams about women for sure, and I was never 122 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.039 I think I maybe like thought about it for a second. I was like, 123 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:48.759 oh am I into that, and I'm like, well, yeah, 124 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.840 I mean a little. I guess like I would if my fantasies were, 125 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.399 you know, ninety nine point nine percent male based, but every now and 126 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:01.399 again there'd be a woman in there and it happened. Yeah, So I 127 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:03.879 know if I gave it too much thought, because I think at that time, 128 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.320 in the nineties and two thousands, it was like, oh, yeah, 129 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:11.320 you're gonna have gay dreams sometimes and it's not a big deal. So 130 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.559 I just kind of clocked it as like nothing, it's not a big deal 131 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:18.919 as part of it whatever. Yeah, absolutely, especially I don't know if 132 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:20.200 this was true for you, but I've heard a lot of guests talk about 133 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:26.519 they weren't sort of the idea of gray area wasn't huge at that point in 134 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:31.360 history. So if you knew for sure you were attracted to guys, right, 135 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.480 you didn't necessarily know like bye a pan, So yes, you were 136 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:37.320 like, well, I know I'm not a lesbian, so I guess it's 137 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:41.919 straight. Like that was just kind of correct. Yeah, definitely, definitely, 138 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:45.840 I do. I have a memory, and I'm sure my mom doesn't 139 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.919 remember this, but there was a for some reason, it came up when 140 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.960 I was I think in middle school of the concept of bisexuality, and I 141 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:58.600 remember my mom saying like, I'm completely okay with like lesbians and gay men. 142 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.159 She's like, but by people like pick aside. She said, like 143 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:03.600 pick aside. And I remember defending that and being like, I think people 144 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.480 can be into I don't. I'm sure it wasn't eloquent. I was in 145 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:09.360 middle school, but I was like, I think people can just be into 146 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.360 whatever they're into and that's fine, and she was like that's a good point, 147 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.480 and like agreed with me, and it was like a very healthy, 148 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:20.120 wonderful I feel so blessed that I have like the parents that I do. 149 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.639 Like everyone's stories are so and I feel like mine were like disappointed that I 150 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:30.120 was straight for so long, just raising these straight daughters in Vermont, like 151 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:33.879 a little waste of our time, like you don't want Yeah, that's probably 152 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.879 why they sat you down to be like it's okay, yeah yeah, yeah, 153 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:39.679 yeah, it would be really cool if you were. I mean, 154 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:48.440 wow, yeah, you finally fit in and wait I cut you off earlier. 155 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:54.000 But you had said in terms of the feeling guilty about like anything sexual 156 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:56.519 and like masturbation and stuff like that. But then I think you said, 157 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:01.600 like did someone explain to you like that was okay? Did you like bring 158 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.960 that like how did you sort of it was literally like a one to eighty. 159 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.840 I was so guilty every time, and I would not not do it. 160 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.519 I was such a horny, horny little child, like a teenage boy 161 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:18.320 level. And so one day in I think it was my sophomore year of 162 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.080 high school, maybe before that, but I had who cares Jesus anyway, 163 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.159 A I was with this group of girls and there's this girl, Elizabeth, 164 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.600 and she was like, somehow we got on topic of masturbation and she's like, 165 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:33.519 yeah, I do it all the time. It's totally fine, it's 166 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:37.000 not a big deal, like it's whatever. And I was like, oh 167 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.080 my God, it's not a big deal. Other people do it, it's 168 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.960 fine, and then I just it's like dissipated, and I can't even like 169 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.759 imagine that world that I was in for so long anymore because now I'm like, 170 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.720 I celebrate it. It's whatever, But like at that time, it 171 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:58.519 really was for so many years, from age six until until maybe like thirteen, 172 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:05.840 fourteen fifteen. Yeah, that is so everyone needs in Elizabeth first of 173 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:11.679 all shout out, yeah, like that's such a we're hitting that fucking male 174 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:18.039 female boy girl thing. Because it's like guys talk about masturbation a lot, 175 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:20.840 like that's socially acceptable, it's expected of them, and like so, but 176 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.759 girls, especially younger girls, like do not typically or I don't know what 177 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:30.480 it's like now for the young kids, but when I was growing up, 178 00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:33.440 like you didn't talk about that stuff, and so anything that you don't talk 179 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.480 about you tend to have, like you're saying, like guilt and shame about 180 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:41.279 it and think that it's fucked up. And it just takes like one brave, 181 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:43.399 equally horny girl being like not, what the fuck I do that? 182 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:48.039 All the time. It feels like it rules just one person for you to 183 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.679 be like Oh, I'm not like a Weirdoh there's something wrong with me. 184 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:56.600 And that's just like if girls could talk about it as much as guys, 185 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:03.519 I feel like maybe there wouldn't be that Oh yeah, yeah, I want 186 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.919 to talk to young girls about it, but you're like it's so creepy, 187 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:07.639 like you can't do that. It's like, I don't know, we can't 188 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:13.679 like school and be like, hey, you guys want to Okay, if 189 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.159 you touch yourself, they're like screaming. They just call the cops. Yeah, 190 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:22.000 who are you? Yeah, but I understand it's a lofty goal and 191 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.440 maybe someday we'll get there. There's like school assembly style, don't smoke, 192 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:31.600 don't do drugs, do the masturbate. Yeah, we're working towards that. 193 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:35.720 Okay. So so you start and you said that you've dated guys like back 194 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:39.120 to back, but that didn't start until like senior year of high school. 195 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:45.559 And so once you started dating guys, did any of the like maybe low 196 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.639 murmur of like oh like maybe something with women. I don't know, did 197 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.639 all of that sort of like go away because of the excitement of like I'm 198 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.200 dating guys like I'm in the mix, or did it like amp up because 199 00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:01.399 now like actual sexual experience, so as where happened, Like I don't, 200 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.240 Yeah, what was your experience? Yeah, No, it was just so 201 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:09.279 horny. I was just happy to be there. Oh man. I was 202 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.360 kind of playing the field too. People would be like, do you want 203 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.519 a date, and I'd be like no, and then I would go hang 204 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:18.519 out with another dude. I think I had like three going by the same 205 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.279 name at the same time that I was having sex until I was later, 206 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.720 but like I would fool around with just make out. Yeah, it was 207 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:31.480 just a fun, good, cool time finally getting to like share with somebody 208 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:37.679 else. Uh. Yeah, I didn't. I did not kiss another girl 209 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:48.000 until college, and that was just to make our other friend uncomfortable. My 210 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:56.480 first kiss with a woman, Yeah, was to friends. Yeah, I 211 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.279 love This is actually really cool because so often it's the the college kiss is 212 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:06.399 to like make a guy horny. So I love a test. Yeah, 213 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:15.159 it's like to make another woman uncomfortabbus, Like there's no guys. That's really 214 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:22.840 funny. What was she like, was it like a religious or like how 215 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:27.480 did this even come up? Was it wasn't manipulated to happen because you two 216 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:32.600 kind of really wanted to kiss or was it genuinely like let's fuck with our 217 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.879 friends. I think it was genuinely to fuck with her. I mean, 218 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:37.799 I definitely it was a great kiss. It was fun. I was like, 219 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.519 oh, this is nice. This is nicer than with men typically it's 220 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.440 like soft. And I was like, I don't know, I hadn't, 221 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.799 I didn't know, but it was, yeah, genuinely like mostly to fun 222 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.480 with her. There was like a lot of like sexual undercurrents and a lot 223 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.399 of my friendships though where it's like bordering on harassment. I would say, 224 00:16:56.440 --> 00:17:00.159 where there was a game called firetruck where you put your hand on your friend's 225 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.960 knee and you go up until they until they say fire truck, and then 226 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.720 you have to stop. But like it's a game of chicken to see who 227 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.960 stops first. So if I stop before I get to their vulva, then 228 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.519 I lose. If they say fire truck, then they lose. And my 229 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.920 friend Diana would always say say fire truck, like right away. So there's 230 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.240 just a lot of those kinds of like and like flirting and stuff like that. 231 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.680 I'm sorry, is this an actual like why have I never heard in 232 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:36.160 this game? I don't know, because I fucked up weird friends. I 233 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:41.839 don't know. I don't know. I like the game, yeah, yeah, 234 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.279 I don't know if is it problematic? I have no idea. Yeah, 235 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.160 everyone consented at the time. What the fuck? I love this. 236 00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.400 I can't believe I've never again, in almost three hundred episodes, I've never 237 00:17:53.480 --> 00:18:00.839 heard of the game fire Truck. Wow. Okay, but I'm gonna have 238 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.920 to check Reddit and see if I can. Yeah. I thought there's different 239 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:07.599 names in different regions, you know, the way that they have for sure, 240 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.519 like we called it. Where did you go to college? Did you 241 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.680 go out of Vermont? No? I went to the University of MT. 242 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.119 I took a year. I took a gap year, and I traveled and 243 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.960 volunteered, and then I went to school at the University of Vermont because it 244 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:27.839 was free because I ran track and field and got other scholarships for like being 245 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:37.720 poor. I think it was the qualification whatever scholarship like here, right, 246 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:45.160 have some money? And were you so once you started dating guys senior year, 247 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:51.359 then did it become like kind of serious long term relationships back to back 248 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.440 or were you still like in college kind of like dating around like what was 249 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.359 No, I don't think I ever got my my like break periods in tween 250 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:04.079 were really short, so there was not a lot of exploration time. If 251 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:08.200 there was, it was with guys because they're everywhere. I mean, they're 252 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:14.240 just and when you're horny and you can get something easily, there's no reason 253 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:15.920 not to just keep doing that, you know, and I didn't really have 254 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:22.960 access to they were not I don't remember there even being anyone queer on my 255 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.640 track and field team. Besides, I think there might have been like a 256 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:27.920 gay guy once, but like I yeah, there was one gay guy that 257 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:32.599 I was close with, but I don't remember any of the women being queer. 258 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.920 It was a big team. There were I think at least fifty women. 259 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.359 Like how we're none so sad. I'm sure they were. Maybe they 260 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:45.039 just weren't out there. Yeah, Like I'm like track that feels yeah, 261 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:49.720 it's not tennis or softball, but like that feels pretty Yeah gay track, 262 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.680 a bunch of women running after each other come on, yeah in like bathing 263 00:19:53.720 --> 00:20:02.839 suits, yeah, and the shower together afterwards. Yeah yeah, yeah, 264 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:08.839 I've seen that movie. So so like even kissing that girl to fuck with 265 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.119 your friend, that didn't sort of make you be like, hey, what 266 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.200 if I like did this for a while, Like this was all still just 267 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:21.319 like incidental. Yeah, I didn't have a crush on her. I didn't 268 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:23.480 have feelings for her, so I didn't know that it was possible. I 269 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:27.480 had a crush on a girl. Me and my guy friend were obsessed with 270 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:32.720 this girl that we called water fountain Girl because she would always go and get 271 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:34.079 water at the same time each day and we would just come out into the 272 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.640 hallway and just like watch her fill her water bottle. We're just like, 273 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:44.799 she's so hot. Watl water bottle girl is so hot. Wow, I 274 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:52.119 love that. Did so were you ever like around that time identify like talking 275 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.079 about being like, oh yeah, like I think girls are hot, or 276 00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.880 like using a word like pan sexual or were you just sort of like saying 277 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.000 those things as they occurred to you, But but it wasn't like who you 278 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:07.079 were quote unquote you know what I mean. Yeah, I definitely still identified 279 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:11.839 as straight, but I yeah, I mean my whole life I had been 280 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.240 like this person's this woman's hot, or like I had a crush on you 281 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:19.200 know, like the celebrity. My celebrity crush was Victoria's secret model Adriana Lima 282 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.799 I would kind of, oh, sure, yeah, bond with I think 283 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:29.000 other straight dudes, and I think maybe a little bit with a friend who 284 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.559 came out after high school about certain athletes. We would be we were oh 285 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:36.720 my god, I know, I just like remembering. Yeah, we would 286 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:40.960 watch like G I Jane together constantly and then tried to do a one armed 287 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.440 push up, and like all the signs were there. I cannot believe as 288 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.400 a senior in high school, I did not think, oh, my best 289 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:53.480 friend is maybe into girls. It never and we would just but I mean 290 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.119 she probably was also like how is she not? And like talking about it? 291 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.839 Why is she talking about dudes? Like we just watched G I. 292 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:06.039 Jane and then just drooled all over and blanking on her name. She's in 293 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:11.319 all the like Furious movies, but like the Michelle Rodriguez was a huge crash 294 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.799 of Z. G I Jane. No, no, no, no no. 295 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.400 I was just trying to think of the others, what is happening the 296 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:23.119 celebrity watch Yes, Michelle Rodriguez, I'm gonna I can't decide if I'm going 297 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:27.319 to cut this or not. But I had this experience once where I was 298 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:33.200 sitting we were having like a sketch meeting or something at like the Starbucks. 299 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:34.160 It's Oh, I was about to say where it is. You don't live 300 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.720 in La. It's not relevant anyway, at like a very specific Starbucks. 301 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:42.799 It's like outside patio on a corner, and out of the corner of my 302 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:48.640 eye, I saw like a blurry figure wearing camo pants and like a wife 303 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.000 beater, And now the corner, I'm like, who's this lesbian walking up? 304 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.279 And I turned and it's Michelle Rodriguez. And I was like, I 305 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.839 talked you before. I was like, you're so gay that in my peripheral 306 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.640 vision, I was like, it was full on Michelle Rodriguez. Yeah, 307 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:14.119 she very much cut this. I think she does finally now identify as like 308 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.680 bisexual or like, yeah, I think I've been waiting so long for her 309 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.480 to come out, and I just stopped. I think talked of that a 310 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.279 little, but like in a really roundabout way, but like, yeah, 311 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:30.319 I can still see her walking down the street and her sunglasses, in her 312 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:37.920 cameo pants and her white tank top and flagging. So yeah, she's a 313 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:49.519 great she's a great choice. Have a crush off. Oh God, where 314 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:56.480 the hell were we just obsessions? With crushes. Yeah, oh wait, 315 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.640 no, that's what it was. So was there This is really interesting though. 316 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:07.920 Was there a differentiation? Is that a word for you, between like 317 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:14.200 horny lusty sexual feelings and then like romantic feelings. Was it like both of 318 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:18.519 those things were there for guys, but you weren't thinking romantically about girls. 319 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:23.279 Was romantically not figuring into anything at this point in your life or like because 320 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.839 it sounds like maybe that was a reason why you hadn't given a ton of 321 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:30.160 thought to like if you were clear or not, because if you didn't have 322 00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:33.839 yeah, that's so interesting. Definitely, definitely, because I just didn't feel 323 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:38.359 like it like counted until I could come to a place where I could say, 324 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:44.279 like definitively yes, I can have romantic like something beyond sexual feelings, 325 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.119 romantic feelings, I can capable of falling in love with that kind of thing. 326 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.119 And I was like, I don't want to come out as something and 327 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.440 just be literally just I would be coming out as horny if I feel like, 328 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:02.440 if I didn't you know, there was just anything come on in Yeah, 329 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:07.319 yeah, I think I needed to know if there was more to it. 330 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.759 So there was definitely like a soul searching period, and this is all 331 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:14.200 so recent for me, like I feel such an old part. But it's 332 00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:15.599 like, I think that's common with a lot of people. It's like, 333 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:19.039 yeah, they'll even be like married for years and that was a lot of 334 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:23.319 Vermont women's stories. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I've talked to a lot 335 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:27.039 of people in that position for sure. I think I've said this a million 336 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:32.000 times on this podcast. But I think it's so confusing for those who are 337 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:37.839 legitimately very attracted to both sexually and romantically to men, because we're taught in 338 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.240 society like if that's in place, you follow that path and like you don't 339 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.440 even have to think about anything else, so they don't. Yeah, and 340 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:49.319 then it's like there, you know, they start to be like wait, 341 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.599 but I never got to explore this thing, or like yeah, it's just 342 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:59.359 like it's such a shame. But I do think that it's more confusing for 343 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.119 folks who are fire pan than for those of us who were like, oh, 344 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:04.119 I'm just like not yeah, I'm speaking as a lasb maan, but 345 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.279 just being like and for me on the opposite side, like I thought there 346 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:12.519 was quote unquote something wrong with me because I wasn't like we're so trained to 347 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:18.640 focus on men that like everything is in relation to them, So it's just 348 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.480 like this is all fucked up, yeape, But yeah, at what point 349 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:27.359 did you start being like, oh, I am capable of having like romantic 350 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:33.160 or whatever word you were using, like feelings for women. So it's starting 351 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:40.640 to feel more like a whole situation. So I was in my last long 352 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.960 term relationship was six years and it was a guy. We're still really close 353 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:51.480 friends. He's great. There just came I just like, if I can 354 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:53.480 only describe it as like I kind of like felt itchy inside. And that 355 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.519 was the time when I was exploring like everything, it was the pandemic could 356 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.359 just happened. Everybody was getting outside again, and there was this feeling of 357 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:06.160 like just feeling like pent up and like I needed a change, just like 358 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:11.279 a fundamental, like big change, and that I was also exploring non monogamy 359 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:15.319 at the time, Okay, So I brought that up to him and he 360 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.440 was like, absolutely not. And I was like, oh, I think 361 00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:22.079 I'm like a polyamorous person and I need to explore that. And I also 362 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:23.799 was like, well, I would also like to explore yeah, feelings with 363 00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.119 women, and if that's a real thing, or if I'm just kind of 364 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:32.759 being a horny little asshole, like what that is. So I had, 365 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.279 yeah, a bit of like a once we broke up, a bit of 366 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:44.599 like a rum springer, if you will. Yeahs Interestingly, I was, 367 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:48.799 I dressed very, very mask before when I was in a relationship with a 368 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:52.279 man, and then I started dressing really really femme when we broke up, 369 00:27:53.039 --> 00:28:00.279 and just yeah, super confusing. That's really interesting, Like unconsciously or do 370 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.599 you think you were or were you like I want to attract a certain type 371 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.720 of women, So I'm going to ask. I don't think it was conscious. 372 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.200 I think it was just like I'm done with this phase. I want 373 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.599 to try something else. I don't know. I definitely had like a lot 374 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:19.119 of people who thought I was a lesbian or like would be like, oh, 375 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.519 I think, like you're dating a lesbian to my boyfriend at the time, 376 00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:30.039 so like people were already liked pretty suspicious. But yeah, I started 377 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:37.720 doating, yeah, dressing feminine, but I still didn't know like what I 378 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:42.440 was capable of, I think until I got into a relationship with another woman, 379 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.960 because I think I needed to like actually feel to legitimize the feelings I 380 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.880 think, and before that, I just felt like a fraud because I did 381 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.319 come out as pan before and I still do. I still feel like a 382 00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.599 fraud because I'm dating a man again, and I think this is like a 383 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.160 lot of people's stories, so many of them, it's like very hard to 384 00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:08.960 avoid them, and if you are attractives of them, the odds of meeting 385 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.440 one that you're going to get involved with are like astronomically high correlatively like that, 386 00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.799 yes, yeah, you brought that up on Andy's fun Yeah episode and 387 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.039 I was like, yes, exactly, like they're they're also trained and socialized 388 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.400 to come after us. So it was like it was so hard to I 389 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.440 literally got on stage at Ashley Gavin's show. I don't know if you know 390 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.359 her, she is yea so fine, I know, I know yeah her, 391 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.160 yeah, yeah yeah, And she runs this incredible show that is usually 392 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.880 all queer lineup or close to it, and then the audience is about the 393 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:47.720 same demographically, and uh, it's a big audience and I just remember getting 394 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.480 on stage and like somebody didn't they didn't laugh at some sort of punchline and 395 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.400 I was like, okay, fine, then one of you needs to like 396 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.039 ask me out then I was like, like, I was like, well, 397 00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:02.440 then somebody like slide into my DMS. Yeah, somebody like legitimately did 398 00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:10.200 Yeah, m hmmm because I had to yeah dream m hmm. That's amazing, 399 00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:11.720 right, because it's like You're in a room full of people and I'm 400 00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:15.359 like, I'm still not getting dates, Like I don't know how to do 401 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.799 this. I still don't know how to like, it is so fucking hard 402 00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:26.480 for women to ask out, slash even approach flirt with other women. Like 403 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.759 there is so much repeating myself, I'm sure from a million episodes. But 404 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:36.599 there's the predatory lesbian fear and myth that a lot of us have like weird 405 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:41.880 baggage about. Then there's the like I'm confused because female friendships are so sort 406 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.119 of touchy feely expressive anyway, So I don't know what if she just wants 407 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.960 to be friends and I'm too scared to like get hurt, or there's the 408 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.839 fear of like ruining the friendship. But I might have said this on Andy's 409 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:53.920 episode or another episode, but I don't think a lot of guys are worried 410 00:30:53.960 --> 00:31:00.640 about quote unquote ruining their friendships with girls if they shoot her shot and they 411 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.319 all do able to do that exactly. They're like, fuck it, there's 412 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.720 more girls that I could be friends with girls like and I'm speaking in very 413 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.119 broad generalizations, but a lot of times, if like two women are close 414 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.440 friends, there's a very real I had this with like a friend, Like 415 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:22.359 there's such a real fear of fucking up like a beautiful friendship and relationship if 416 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:27.079 you like. And I think so many possible sapphig relationships fall by the wayside 417 00:31:27.160 --> 00:31:32.440 because of that fear. So it's like there's so many hurdles to clear, 418 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:34.480 right, And I don't know if you're like this, I have to be 419 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:38.920 friends with the person that I'm dating before I date them, Like I need 420 00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:41.799 to know that I would be capable of being friends with them first. Man. 421 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.880 That's why I have traveled with dating apps. I do think I've said 422 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.599 on this podcast a lot. I think I'm probably DEMI romantic or DEMI site 423 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.000 or like some I don't identify that way, but I think I think those 424 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.440 are true for me, because it's like there's got to be something there. 425 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.680 Yeah, and then yeah, you run the risk of like oops, now 426 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:04.279 it's a friendship, Like, yeah, I went too far with it. 427 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.440 Yeah, it's fucking confusing, is but so so your it sounds like your 428 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:16.359 first relationship with a woman was pretty recent and how did that, like go, 429 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:20.440 did that end in horrible heartbreak? Was it? Like? Okay? 430 00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.960 Was it? It wasn't the worst heartbreak. It was talk, but it 431 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:29.319 was we were trying to do something. We were trying to do everything that 432 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.680 is hard at once. So she it was a long distance relationship, which 433 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.359 I now know that no matter who it is, I absolutely can't do that 434 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:44.000 ever, never again. But we were also trying to do an open relationship, 435 00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.960 which I thought would mitigate the distance, but that I've never done that 436 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.160 before. She had never done that before, and boy is that difficult. 437 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.759 I've read all the books too, you know, Like I was like, 438 00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:00.720 yeah, but I thought I was going to nail like in the field. 439 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:05.880 Yeah, it's so much and I get jealous, So like I got jealous 440 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:10.160 like right away. Uh, And it was like a lot. It was 441 00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:15.559 just so much work all the time. And yeah, so we just uh 442 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.440 yeah, I had to call it off. But we had some great time. 443 00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:21.359 You know. She would come up to the city and I would go 444 00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:25.359 to where she was in Minneapolis, and I had some great experiences and that 445 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.440 was like a fun journey and exploration and we keep in touch a little bit 446 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:35.880 here and there. But that's awesome. That's awesome. And then so you 447 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.079 mentioned so you are dating a guy right now? Did not like like on 448 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:42.400 this he's not like in the background, but you know what I mean? 449 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:47.119 It did how long of a like after you get out of the relationship with 450 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.680 this girl, was there a party that's like maybe all the day girls well, 451 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:52.559 and then all of a sudden this guy sweeps in and you're like, 452 00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:58.519 oh, this guy, Like how did it? Like? I was trying 453 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:02.920 to everywhere heep, being open to just literally anyone that I was into, 454 00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.119 and like, it's Brooklyn, so there's just there's so much here. So 455 00:34:07.159 --> 00:34:13.639 it's very exciting. There's every kind of person is here. And uh, 456 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:17.800 but we became friends, and I did not think that there was anything romantic 457 00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.639 going on because he's a lot younger than I am, and I thought he 458 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:25.519 wanted a mentor in comedy, and I thought, this is so great. 459 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:31.719 You will never hear it. It's so often around. Yeah, guy, 460 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:36.159 Yeah, it was not even not on my radar. Like I took him 461 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:38.360 on what he thought was a date and I thought was us hanging out, 462 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:40.559 and later on he was like, why would you not think it was a 463 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:44.480 date? You asked me to go ice skating with you? And I was 464 00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:49.480 like, yeah, people go ice skating together though, because I took him 465 00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.559 to the rink because there was a girl who worked there who I was into, 466 00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:54.880 and he was the whole time. He was like, why do you 467 00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.280 keep like telling me that you're into this person? He wasn't doing like saying 468 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:01.559 that out loud, but he thought that we were on like a date, 469 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:05.079 and I thought we were hanging out and I was like trying to point out 470 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.159 like a hot chick to him, but we did. Once I was ice 471 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:12.039 skating in the rink with her, I realized that she was not. She 472 00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:16.679 was too young, just too young for me. Okay, yeah, wow, 473 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:23.079 Okay. So eventually this guy, did he make his feelings non or 474 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:28.480 did you sort of like realize like, oh there's something here. Like we 475 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:30.679 had a moment where I thought something might happen, so I cut it off 476 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:35.559 and I was like, normally this would be like a romantic moment. I 477 00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.599 was like, I'm gonna kind of make sure it doesn't happen. But I 478 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:40.719 wasn't like I don't want it to happen, but I was like this, 479 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:45.679 you know, it was like very soon after the breakup, and it wasn't 480 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.239 weird. It wasn't like a I don't think it. It didn't really change 481 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.239 anything between us. It didn't make it like, oh, she's not interested. 482 00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.719 I don't know. However I did it. I nailed it, I 483 00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.800 guess. And then I had to make the first move on him later on, 484 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:06.039 like we kept hanging out and then at some point I was sitting next 485 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.239 to him on the couch and just like wouldn't leave his house and wanted to 486 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:10.320 make a move. I wanted him to make a move because you know, 487 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:16.159 I'm used to just kind of sitting there and receiving receiving love. I'm such 488 00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:20.960 a baby. Very no, this is very sweet though, because even this 489 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:28.639 relationship feels like the start of a lesbian relationship because you're not like this house 490 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:30.679 or like what is this gonna happen? Like that feels very queer. Yes, 491 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:37.800 Like I like that. And let me ask, in terms of your 492 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:44.760 stand up, did you start talking like at what point did you start talking 493 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:51.480 about women or being pant sexual or any of that on stage? Like was 494 00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:53.880 that like do you do that? I guess is even a question because I 495 00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:58.039 don't know, but like, is that a conscious decision? Is it like, 496 00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:00.920 oh shit, I have to like rework all my material now that I 497 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:06.079 realize this about myself or was it just like a slight like oh this is 498 00:37:06.119 --> 00:37:10.280 actually is it terrifying? Also because I feel like that would be so scary. 499 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.440 I think. I think I came out to literal strangers on stage and 500 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.960 like tried it out there before I talked to anybody about it. As soon 501 00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.320 as I had a punchline that was funny, then I felt that was like 502 00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:28.519 the thing that made me okay about it. I think as well, like 503 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.360 it's not like I didn't feel okay about it, but like it legitimized it 504 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:35.480 to me as soon as people laughed at what I was saying. Because I 505 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:39.599 had not when I was doing those jokes, I don't Yeah, I hadn't. 506 00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.280 Well, I hadn't been in the relationship yet for sure. Because those 507 00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:46.000 jokes, I had to come out as pansexual on stage to get the DM 508 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:52.840 from my from the girl that I dated. So yeah, I which I 509 00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:55.920 do a lot. I come out on stage and I get all my stuff 510 00:37:55.920 --> 00:38:00.360 out there, I process everything I think on stage because if I can make 511 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:06.159 it funny, then it becomes awesome rather than something that I have to ever 512 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.800 worry about. Yeah. Yeah, oh god, yeah, I absolutely hear 513 00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:14.400 what you're saying. That's that's really cool. I love that. Mm hm, 514 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:16.679 I love all that. And I do want to say in case someone's 515 00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:21.360 been listening this whole time and they're like, when is we're going to say 516 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:27.199 this, like the thing, the impostor syndrome, the feeling like a fraud, 517 00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.360 all of those things that I feel like people who are PAN or By 518 00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:37.400 or anything in that area feel like that shit is so real and so insidious, 519 00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:42.320 And just for the record, for anyone out there who is like, 520 00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:47.800 well, I still kind of only feel like sexually attracted to women and I 521 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:53.000 haven't felt romantically attracted. That's still like for you, it didn't feel right. 522 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:55.920 It's sounding like to identify as BI or PAN because it feels like for 523 00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:00.119 you, emotion is kind of like a like a necessary piece. But just 524 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.199 to speak to other people's experiences, like, there are plenty of people who 525 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.960 will identify women who will identify as BUY or PAN and are not interested in 526 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:12.559 being in like a long term or like really see themselves like et cetera, 527 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:16.800 et cetera. And it's really interesting. Different people's comfort levels with that depend 528 00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:21.519 on kind of I guess their worldview or their relationship view in general. But 529 00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:22.840 I do just want to shout out, like in case people are out there 530 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.280 and they're like, well, I'm not interested in relationship, but I still 531 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:30.239 identifize like you going straight, yeah, and straight and not interested in relationship. 532 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.559 I have tons of those friends absolutely yeah. And that's when you know, 533 00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:38.440 we get into those like more micro labels where it's like hetero, romantic, 534 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:43.599 bisexual like stuff. I feel like those can be really useful for people 535 00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:46.960 sometimes or an added headache depending on how you feel about labels. But like, 536 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:52.119 yet, it is so interesting. This is again something that I don't 537 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.679 think gay people have to struggle with as much, Like we don't have to 538 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:01.480 parse it out the way people who are attracted to multiple genders do, because 539 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:07.800 then if it feels like you're more quote unquote attracted or it like hits more 540 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:10.079 spots on the target for one gender, I think there can be a lot 541 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:16.719 of guilt associated with calling yourself queer or buy or pan and like the for 542 00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:20.320 me, the rule of thumb is like not the role of thumb, but 543 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:27.760 like there are people who are ninety five percent like a specific gender or like 544 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.039 type of person, and then five percent the other and those people are like 545 00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:35.199 very comfortable being like I'm bye, I'm pan like to it. And then 546 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:38.280 it's so funny because there will be people who are like sixty forty and feel 547 00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:44.119 like guilt and weirdness about So it's really such an individual thing about how that 548 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:50.920 identifies and that is so specific to the Bye Pan etcetera experience, I think, 549 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.719 And I just want all of us to like realize that that's going on, 550 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.800 because again I don't think gay people. I don't think that's a particular 551 00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.760 struggle that we have, is realizing like how they must feel internally. I'm 552 00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:06.280 sure that's like confusing as fuck, and you do feel a lot of guilt 553 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:13.159 and imposture syndrome and all that. So that was my tiny soapbox as a 554 00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:19.840 bipan ally. I Also, I didn't identify as a comedian until I made 555 00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.159 money, like a amount of money at it, So it took me seventy 556 00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:28.679 years. I was like, I'm not a comedian, yeah, whereas other 557 00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:30.960 people will do one open mic and you like check it out. I'm a 558 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:36.440 stand up so like, yeah, it does totally depend on like your personality 559 00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:42.000 and where you put like your validation, Like where does that yeah you in 560 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:46.880 terms of yeah, god, it's so confusing. It's so confusing. We're 561 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:54.039 all so goddamn different, which is beautiful but messy, Carmon, before we 562 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.840 like sort of wrap up, is there anything else that you want to like 563 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.039 talk about or it will out out all of your stuff at the end, 564 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:04.920 But yeah, I want to make sure I know you're one of the guests 565 00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.000 who had notes, and I always want to make sure that people know that 566 00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:12.679 I listen. I love when people come in with notes. Yeah. These 567 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.519 were like like little bullet points where I'm like trying to remember all the moments. 568 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:17.360 I'm like, oh that time, Yeah, that I saw Patty Harrison 569 00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:21.119 for the first time and was like, she's the most beautiful woman I've ever 570 00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:25.159 seen in my life. Yes, and openly, I didn't open mind like 571 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:30.599 before she hit it like big. It was like right before she got super 572 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.679 famous. She was just running this open mic and I like nudged my then 573 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.480 boyfriend. I was like, that woman is gorgeous, and he was like 574 00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:42.760 that's pretty Harrison gorgeous. Not only gorgeous, but I think the funniest. 575 00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:47.719 I think the funniest current person doing comedy. Like I have wept actual tears, 576 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.039 multiple bits of hers. I just awesome. Yeah, she's so funny 577 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.639 and kills me. Yeah. Oh that's a nice Yeah, that's nice. 578 00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:04.320 That's a cool sighting right before big fan mm hmmm. Yeah. I just 579 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.800 want to make sure you got to say or talk about everything you want to 580 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:09.320 talk about. I think I covered everything. Yeah, I know, there 581 00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:15.679 isn't a lot of conflict because I just had such a supportive community, you 582 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.320 know, you know, everybody in comedy and my my family. If they 583 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:21.440 don't really like talk about it, I will say, oh, this is 584 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:24.360 funny. My dad thought that I was kidding, Like he's always joked that 585 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:30.239 I'm a lesbian, like our whole life, that's been my family. Like 586 00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:32.519 I brought like a woman to the house and he's like, you're a girlfriend 587 00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:37.920 obviously, like up until and then like I he doesn't really do it anymore 588 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.840 because now like I'm like, yeah, I do date women. I'm like 589 00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.400 he got yeah, because I made it. I think I made it like 590 00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:46.000 too casual. When I came out to my dad because I just he doesn't 591 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:49.599 see my stand up as much as like my mom. So I think I 592 00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:51.840 just talked to him on the phone and I was like, oh, by 593 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.000 the way, I'm dating somebody. It's a it's a woman, and we're 594 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:58.519 doing a non monogamous long distance thing. And like, now, in retrospect, 595 00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:00.679 I'm like, yeah, that sounds like a completely made up story. 596 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:05.800 That sounds like I was because I am. We both have really dry senses 597 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.400 of humor and I call and like make jokes the whole time and he does 598 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.440 the same thing. So in retrospect, I'm like, yeah, I probably 599 00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:15.679 it could have been a different but like, how else do you do it? 600 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:20.400 So for like months months he thought I was kidding. We just that 601 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.079 he was just keeping the bit going. He's like, how is your girlfriend? 602 00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.480 And then finally his wife was like, I think she really has a 603 00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:30.280 girlfriend. Dude, Oh my god, that's so fun. You must have 604 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.159 been really convincing at that time, you know, pre high school or whatever, 605 00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:39.239 when you when you straight, because it just stuck. Wow. Did 606 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:43.960 your sister feel vindicated when you came out? Was she like I fucking call? 607 00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:49.079 We Actually we never talked about it. She has four kids, so 608 00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:52.199 our relationship is very meme based at this time, and like memories, we 609 00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:57.480 haven't had any time to sit down and talk in years. That's something that's 610 00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.760 a goal of mine, and I'm waiting for her kids to get older to 611 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:01.400 make it easier. But at the same time, like, I think, 612 00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:04.760 I just need to make time for this. But no, we're not, 613 00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.039 like I don't think we have that kind of relationship either where we're like tell 614 00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:13.559 me your secrets and what's your sexual life? You know. So, yeah, 615 00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:15.519 she's got four kids, Like, yeah, she's probably very tired all 616 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.440 the time. She's so tired. Yeah, I come over and they're like, 617 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:25.360 oh, finally we can take like a break for a second. All 618 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:30.239 right, Well if we did hit everything, then yeah, I want you 619 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:34.039 to How can people follow you? Where can they like find out when the 620 00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:38.000 album's going to be a plug? All your source Instagram is I'm the most 621 00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:44.039 active on Instagram. It's at Krstagrams. I might change it at Carmen Legala 622 00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:47.880 Comedy, but either way, Carmen Legala you'll find it. I have YouTube, 623 00:45:49.000 --> 00:45:52.440 my YouTube channel. I do need subscribers very badly. I need to 624 00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:54.800 get to a thousand before I can make money off of the clips that I 625 00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:04.880 put on. Okay, smash that subscricribeth amazing. That's Carmen Legala comedy on 626 00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:08.639 YouTube. I technically have an only fans, but it's not a sex only 627 00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:13.920 fans. It's for comedy. Like they they have a whole channel devoted to 628 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.599 comedy. So I was cool. Yeah, So I linked with them and 629 00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:22.559 like did a set for one of their only fans TV and I just post 630 00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:25.119 kind of behind the scenes stuff on there. So that's like a really niche 631 00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:29.519 thing. If people are into that, you know, maybe there'll be a 632 00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:34.159 bikini pick coming. I don't know, we'll see. You're gonna start across 633 00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:39.400 a cross genre, maybe just one. I'm really not like a bikini picture. 634 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.199 I don't know. I like to hide my entire body. I like 635 00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.400 my body. But it's weird because I like a comedian. Yeah yeah, 636 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:51.559 yeah, very few comedians are like, look at my sex about it? 637 00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:55.039 That's my trauma. I made it like I need a baggy ar sweatshirt for 638 00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:01.679 today. Yeah yeah. And there's something else. Oh what was it? 639 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.440 Oh yeah, the special that'll probably be out in the spring, that'll be 640 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:14.599 on all listening platforms like sirius XM all the Spotify, Apple and on my 641 00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:16.480 YouTube channel. For sure. We're spending a lot of time doing that, 642 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:21.280 the doing the coloring and the editing, so it should look really nice on 643 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:25.519 YouTube. Oh and yeah, do you wanna talk about your podcast? Like 644 00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:28.880 what kind of a podcast is it? And like, oh, sure, 645 00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:34.039 it's it's actually it's me and my boyfriend being being silly. Oh that's great. 646 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:37.920 I didn't know it was with your boyfriend. Oh cool, cool, 647 00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:39.920 cool, which I love. I love doing that. Yeah, it's so 648 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:45.519 fun. It's so fun. That's awesome. Okay, and that's called incodeots 649 00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:51.880 awesome and as you oh no. You can find me at Lauren Flants on 650 00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:55.960 Twitter, on Blue Sky, Lauren Underscore Flats on Instagram. The podcast is 651 00:47:57.039 --> 00:48:01.199 at coming out pot everywhere. The hashtag is hash coming out pod. Hey, 652 00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:05.519 I've got patrons. I love them very much. Thank you so much 653 00:48:05.559 --> 00:48:09.079 to carmel Ka, Simone, Kyenne, Michelle, l Adrie, Tanya Pooh, 654 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:13.800 Tia, Kieren Smiley, Aaron Mitchell, Diego, Hernandez and beyond Clexa 655 00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:19.440 dot com and y'all if you want to support the podcast for zero dollars, 656 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.679 a really great way to do that is to give it a five star rating 657 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:28.039 on either iTunes or Spotify. On iTunes, you can write a little review 658 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.719 if you want to write a little review. But yeah, those five stars 659 00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:36.920 are actually very helpful. Carmen, this was so fun. Thank you for 660 00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.679 coming on and talking to me even though I'm a total stranger. No, 661 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:43.119 this is perfect. Thank you so much for having me on. This is 662 00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:46.119 so nice of Shout out to your friend for connecting us. It's so nice 663 00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:50.679 of Brian. Yes, absolutely, Brian Strang, who I famously saw the 664 00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.719 movie Carol with in theaters, and at that time in our relationship, I 665 00:48:53.800 --> 00:49:00.199 didn't know if he knew that I was gay because we'd known each other since 666 00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:01.679 I was like in college and I wasn't really out, and I had this 667 00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:04.440 moment where I was like, does you know what? Does he think I'm 668 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.280 into? The ammae like what's up? It was just like a very weird 669 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:13.079 moment. So shout out to my buddy Brian Strang. I now on the 670 00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:19.039 DVD of Carol. Okay, I will see you all next Wednesday. Thank 671 00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:28.480 you, Carvin, thank you Lauren. I am