WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:12.119 Well, whiskey coming thing my pain honey, Oh whiskey don't. From power 2 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:18.320 Line blog dot com and produced by Ricochet dot Com. This is the three 3 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:26.120 Whiskey Happy Hour with your bartenders Steve Hayward, John Yu and power Lines International 4 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:33.159 Woman of Mystery Lucretia. Have you got a giving let that whiskey bloon where 5 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:39.920 you're being in love down in load? Well, John, you literally on 6 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.960 an airplane back from Brazil at this moment while we're recording. We are delighted 7 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:47.840 to heave in his place today. Professor Amy Wax from University of Panda Law 8 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.159 School. Hi, Amy, how are you doing good? I'm happy to 9 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:54.759 be here. Yeah, Well, it's you've been I mean, I've lost 10 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.640 track of the ordeal you've been going through for a very long time now. 11 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:00.960 But you know your case and and we'll have you describe in the moment in 12 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:06.280 general terms. But well, I'll put it this way to people, I'm 13 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:08.640 trying to hound you out of the University of Pennsylvania for several years now, 14 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:14.560 while it has emerged suddenly here in the last several weeks that penn has been 15 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:19.879 unbelievably indulgent of anti Semitism so much so that even donors who want to know 16 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:25.799 better but usually don't have started to notice. And so there's an obvious disharmony 17 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:30.799 here or obvious contradiction hypocrisy at work. And I guess let's start from the 18 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:37.640 thirty thousand foot level. Do you think that what has a huge controversy now 19 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:42.040 on all kinds of campuses is are we seeing a possible inflection point and a 20 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:46.640 turning against the runaway campus wokery or are we going to wake up in six 21 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.519 months or a year and look back and discover that, in fact, what 22 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.000 we have passed the point of no return. How do you size up the 23 00:01:53.040 --> 00:02:00.840 scene? Well, I'd like I'd like to think that we are retreating from 24 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:06.400 Wokrie, because I think Wokri is just so pernicious and destructive of everything the 25 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:14.360 university should be about, including intellectual standards which have plummeted catastrophically. But unfortunately, 26 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:20.360 because of that very fact, I can't be entirely optimistic. What has 27 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.199 happened here at Penn I think is emblematic of what has happened in a number 28 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:30.280 of places the school. In response to a donor rebellion in the wake of 29 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:37.879 the Hamas evasion or the Hamas attack, and also a Palestinian literary festival that 30 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:44.199 we had here at Penn have rebelled. They have withdrawn their contributions, and 31 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:49.240 a lot of our donors are very wealthy Jews, and in a kind of 32 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:55.520 panicky, knee jerk response to that not very well thought out, the university 33 00:02:55.639 --> 00:03:02.199 brass and the massive bureauocracy that we have here has put out a series of 34 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:12.120 pronouncements in which they have ostensibly embraced a kind of even handed, full throated 35 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:19.639 endorsement of free speech principles that they never seem terribly interested in before, but 36 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:23.159 also have equivocated about it. They've on the one hand, said, well, 37 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:29.120 all sides need to be heard. The institution itself has to be neutral. 38 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:34.199 That's the Calvin Report principle. Would that they had had that commitment all 39 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:38.479 along, of course, But on the other hand, hate has no home 40 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:43.800 here. We can't have anti semitism here, we can't have hate here. 41 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:52.400 And that part is responding to the donor's objection to neutrality. They want Pen 42 00:03:52.599 --> 00:04:00.080 to take sides in this conflict and condemn the pro Hamas pro Palestinian statements and 43 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:05.960 factions within the university. So there are a lot of mixed signals being sent 44 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:13.000 here by Penn. I think in this frantic attempt to limit the damage. 45 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:15.160 Now, you know, we used to have a saying when I was growing 46 00:04:15.279 --> 00:04:18.680 up in a very devout Jewish household, is it good for the Jews? 47 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:25.279 So I guess my variation on that would be, is it good for conservatives? 48 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:30.000 And while I think that a flat out endorsement of free speech and institutional 49 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:34.759 neutrality is good for conservatives, because conservatives like me are in the minority, 50 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:41.399 and when there isn't neutrality and when the institution talks about its values and its 51 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:46.120 mission, we are the people who are targeted, right if we raise our 52 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:53.160 voice against the received wisdom. But on the other hand, if all that 53 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:58.519 the donors are asking for and pen is going to give them is you know, 54 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:03.000 anti sim it can be coming out against anti Semitism, coming out against 55 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:08.879 Hamas and being highly partisan. And don't get me wrong, I am not 56 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.800 endorsing anti semitism, and I think that Hamas deserves to be condemned, and 57 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:16.600 I don't even think that's really very debatable, although it is being debated. 58 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:23.279 Excuse me, then I don't think that's good for the Jews. I don't 59 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:29.720 think responding to a call for partisanship. However, I think well justified. 60 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.120 It is necessarily good for the Jews because excuse me, good for the Jews, 61 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:43.040 good for conservatives because it will be turned against conservatives. The commitment against 62 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.680 hate's speech will immediately be applied against people like me, as it has been 63 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:53.439 all along. You're peddling hate. Any criticism of BLM, any criticism of 64 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:59.519 anti racism, any criticisms of DEE is incompatible with our values. It's hate, 65 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.199 whatever that is, and therefore we can run you out of town on 66 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:09.199 a rail. So I guess I would say some of what they're committing to 67 00:06:09.759 --> 00:06:14.680 is potentially good. Other things they're saying is not. And you know, 68 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:19.240 here's the thing. Are they principled? Are they consistent? Are they coherent 69 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:26.879 in their pronouncements and beliefs? Of course not all right. They're run by 70 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:33.879 a bunch of hate to say it, midwit spin doctors. Universities are not 71 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:43.000 run by people with high intellectual integrity and rigorous intellectual values, not anymore, 72 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.040 because there's no reward for it. Of course, there's no reward for it, 73 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:53.680 and so standards are so debased and in part they've been debased by the 74 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:59.839 embrace of wokeness, of anti racism, which morphs very quickly into anti I 75 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:05.000 Americanism, anti whiteness, anti Western values, and frankly, you know, 76 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:09.319 if you look in the right places, you see that things like rigor, 77 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:16.360 coherence, consistency, principle, that stuff is whiteness, which is why they 78 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:20.800 get away with you stuff we want to get rid of, right, That's 79 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:28.360 why they get away with taking this hypocritical sort of viewpoint about these things because 80 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:31.319 it doesn't matter to them. If they're hypocrites, they don't have to stand 81 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:38.199 on principle principle. If again, if it's not whiteness and a construct of 82 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.240 Western civilization, it's certainly not anything that means anything to them, and they 83 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.759 don't mind being called hypocrites. That's the lack of commitment to these fundamentals is 84 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:56.000 a big problem. It gives rise to what some conservatives have called lifecentious tolerance. 85 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:01.160 Should we really tolerate people who want to bring down our higher system, 86 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:07.120 our entire culture, our entire civilization. We really are kind of reaching the 87 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:11.800 limits now of where tolerance ought to go. And I'm a free speech absolutist, 88 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:13.959 but I am recognizing more and more than in order to maintain that, 89 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.839 you have to have some common commitments. Let me tell you an anecdote of 90 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:24.759 something that someone at PEN told my attorney, because I have been fighting charges 91 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.639 for years now that PENN has brought against me that I think is very telling 92 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:35.039 and very shocking. My attorney, David Shapiro, was speaking to someone in 93 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.639 the General Counsel's office and he said to this someone, you know, we 94 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:43.080 really should settle his case, because if we take you to court, we'll 95 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.639 have the subpoena power and we can delve into stuff that you won't give us. 96 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.600 In the administrative phase, we can get a lot of information and show 97 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:58.000 that your dean is not telling the truth and that you've contradicted yourself. And 98 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:03.200 the general unil guys said, stop, you don't get it. We don't 99 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.720 care about any of that stuff. Our dean can be shown to be a 100 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:13.120 shambolic liar. We can contradict ourselves all over the place. You know, 101 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:18.399 we can be shown to have no consistent principles. We will get past it. 102 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.360 The only thing that matters to PEN is that the students apply and the 103 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:31.720 money rolls in, and as long as those two things continue, we're good 104 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.080 and actually, I mean, I think this is accurate. So Amy, 105 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.240 I have to ask you, then, is there a little bit of a 106 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:46.960 cause for optimism in if it's good for the Jews? I'm going to say 107 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.679 it like that. And here's what I mean by that. The one thing 108 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:56.200 that I found rather gratifying are all of these law firms across the country who 109 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:05.000 are saying we will refuse to higher any law school graduates who have shown themselves 110 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:11.759 to be so lacking in moral clarity, so lacking in in judgment, really 111 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:16.480 so filled with hatred, whether they fully understand it or not. That to 112 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.720 me, I'm not willing to give a pass on that one, like Larry 113 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:24.000 Summers seems to be. But I do see that there's some based on what 114 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:31.480 you just said, some cause tiny cause for optimism, and that is if 115 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:35.919 we can show that, at the very least, in these extreme circumstances, 116 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:43.399 with the horrible situation in Israel and the horrible actions by Hamas, that okay, 117 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.000 this is a moment of moral clarity. The other things, oh, 118 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:52.200 we could argue all day about if diversity is really our strength, and you 119 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:58.399 know, stupid things like that, But this one is really frankly, like 120 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:01.639 you say, you know, it shouldn't even have to be argued. As 121 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:05.720 you said at the very beginning, do you see any cause for optimism there? 122 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:09.559 Maybe not in your situation, but overall, yeah, I mean we 123 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.399 just add the point we've never seen anything like what we're seeing now with major 124 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.559 donors, people like John Huntsman. It's not Jewish, but and it's the 125 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.840 most conventional, middle of the road Republican you can get who led the charge 126 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.320 at pen And then also these law firms this week, uh, you know, 127 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.759 a two dozen of the top big law firms really taking it to the 128 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.960 deans of law schools. We've never seen this kind of blowback ever before. 129 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.759 I don't think, Yeah, well, I'm really of two minds about what 130 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:41.240 the law firms are doing because on the one hand, you know, it 131 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:48.440 is a form of McCarthyism, and i'm you know, very ambivalent about McCarthyism. 132 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:54.759 What is McCarthyism is the use of private economic power to try and influence 133 00:11:54.240 --> 00:12:00.720 people's opinions and punish dissenters, right. I mean, here we have a 134 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:07.799 very extreme example of descent being you know, a murderous descent essentially, so 135 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.799 far beyond the pale that I guess if there's any occasion to do that, 136 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.320 it would be this one. But then they could turn around and say that 137 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:22.320 about someone like me who's against DEI or who points out a group differences or 138 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.519 whatever. So these kinds of judgments quote unquote can easily be weaponized against the 139 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.240 wrong people. So that's one side of the coin. And I just recently 140 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.120 read an essay by Milton Friedman with my Conservatism class where he sticks to his 141 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:43.759 libertarian guns and says, I think that, you know, the Blacklist and 142 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:48.799 the McCarthy I initiatives, even though I think communism is wrong, wrong, 143 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.320 wrong, I think they're illegitimate. If we're really going to have an open 144 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.440 society, we have to tolerate people embracing this. Now with communism, we 145 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.080 have the same phenomenon. You know, when does communism cross over to an 146 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:05.559 attack on the very heart of our system? Okay, just as when does 147 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:11.559 the sort of thing that you know Muslims and Arabs are now saying, which 148 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:16.600 is essentially, you know, wipe Israel out, kill the Jews. Hamasus 149 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:22.159 can do whatever it wants because it's oppressed. When does that become let's bring 150 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.639 down the whole system. So that leads me to the other side of the 151 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:30.919 coin, which is maybe it's a good thing that law firms realize that, 152 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.960 yes, there is such a thing as licentious tolerance. There comes a point 153 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.320 where people are so wrong, so immoral, so lacking in the fundamentals. 154 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:48.159 We need to maintain our rule of law, western constitutional system, right rights 155 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:52.679 based system that we don't want them. But you see, here's the thing, 156 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.919 and I'll finish. They should have realized that long ago, supporting the 157 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:03.720 universities, supporting Woken it leads to this result. Right, This is the 158 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:09.919 redoctio of letting people into our country, and it's actually quite relevant to to 159 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:15.120 immigration policy and into our universities, who, if we listen to what they 160 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:22.039 had to say, are basically saying we're totally against your way of life, 161 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:26.440 we want to destroy it, we want to bring it down, and we're 162 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.840 not listening to them, we're just kind of papering all that over. My 163 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:37.440 argument to Steve last week Amy was that the Rena Workman I believe is her 164 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:43.480 name, the New York University, right right? That, Okay, I 165 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.519 was very happy to see that that the you know, law firm had had 166 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.279 rescinded their offer. But what in the hell were they offering or something for 167 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:56.360 in the first place, right, I mean, I look at but they 168 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.799 led her into law school. I mean, you know they are letting, 169 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:05.360 let's leave aside Americans, because there are Americans who are you know, from 170 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:11.039 kind of pre Enlightenment cultures and are very loyal to their very tribally loyal to 171 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:16.679 those cultures, and those people I think are a problem. But why is 172 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:26.039 Yale letting in Pakistani nationals as undergraduates? I mean that is nuts. I'm 173 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:31.639 sorry, it's apt, right, it's crazy, all right, call me 174 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:37.080 in America. First. I just think that's wrong from a practical point of 175 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:43.639 view, given that taxpayers are supporting these institutions. And also, what can 176 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.000 you expect these people, you know, their culture says it's okay to lie 177 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:52.720 to the Infidel. Where the Infidel? So they pretend to be loyal to 178 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.399 our basic way of life? You know what, I don't believe them. 179 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.039 Yes, yeah, when the gloves come off, they are saying on social 180 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.919 media stuff like kill the Jews. I have friends that told me about their 181 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.320 child who went to an IVY institution. I won't name one of her best 182 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:18.759 friends was a Pakistani national at this institution, and now that this Israeli crisis 183 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:23.879 has happened, she's had to cut off this woman and her circle from her 184 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:30.240 social media. Why because of what they're saying. They're basically advocating genocide. 185 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:37.279 And these are young people who have attended our best institutions. They've lived off 186 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:41.360 the fat of the land, they've received taxpayer subsidies. And once again, 187 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.480 if we'd listen to them from day one, what we would have heard is 188 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:51.720 we hate you. Yeah, that's just wokism, right, that's just a 189 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:56.279 very non wokeism. Right. Well, I guess I guess I'm inclined to 190 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.080 the latter. You mentioned the two alternatives, which is stand firm on the 191 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.839 broad understanding of free speech and against what can be characterized in mccartheism. I 192 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:07.720 totally understand that. As a coach and position, I think I inclined to 193 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.680 the latter one, which is, to people whose primary dogma is power, 194 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.200 sometimes the only thing that will get their attention to turn them back is an 195 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.440 equal exercise of power. Now, that's as its defects, But let me 196 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:22.400 draw it out a little bit deeper. Though. You know, it's one 197 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:27.279 thing for someone to say, as I think reasonable and responsible people do, 198 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:33.599 Israel has been unreasonable or too intransigent in dealing with Arabs in some kind of 199 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.799 settlement. I disagree with that, you know, you know the whole history 200 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:41.160 of this, but that criticism is at least plausible. But that's not what 201 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:45.839 we're hearing. We're hearing the ideological routine of their settler colonialist, which is 202 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:51.440 ridiculous. Secondly, the other part that goes with this is that we've divided 203 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:56.559 the world by ideology into oppressors and oppressed correct And you know, it was 204 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.720 maybe you saw that. You know, my dean in the law schoolman Chamerinsky, 205 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.960 who's been pretty strong on a lot of these issues, but he wrote 206 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.319 that I think really silly article the other day saying nothing's prepared me for the 207 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:11.480 anti semitism I'm seeing now. And my first thought was, well, all 208 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.559 you're believing to do at Berkeley is go back thirty years to the late Aaron 209 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:18.079 Woldovsky, who died I think thirty years ago this month. But one of 210 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.519 the last things he wrote was he said, I see antisemitism rising in the 211 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:27.200 intellectual circles in academia, and suddenly Jews, who are always this minority and 212 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.279 reviled minority, are suddenly being made into oppressors. He laid it all out 213 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:36.079 here thirty years ago. So in other words, you have to not be 214 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:38.799 paying attention to see the intellectual client. I don't think that's right, Steve. 215 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:41.440 Don't you don't think that's right way I do, well, I don't 216 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.160 think it's completely wrong. But the point of the matter isn't just that he 217 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:51.039 saw this sort of thing happy. It's that people like Irwin. I can 218 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:55.960 never say his last name, so he'll be Erwin for today Jabrinski. They 219 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.400 have purposely hired these people. They have purposely hired in these undergraduates, these 220 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:07.160 lawful students, all of whom they knew were, as Amy said, intellectually 221 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:14.000 less than stellar. But they they check the right boxes for their for their 222 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.880 wokeness, and anybody that doesn't think that wokeness and anti semitism has gone they 223 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.160 go ahead together. Yeah, going to it for four decades now, it's 224 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:30.160 just an idiot. Still you're in denial, denial, dishonest, intellectually dishonest, 225 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.400 but once again intellectual honesty. I mean, that's what they're trying to 226 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.519 get rid of. I think when you take woken as seriously, which is 227 00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.160 a Manichean point of view that divides the world into a pressor and oppressed. 228 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:48.680 And then you see that Jews, because they're successful, uh, you know, 229 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.799 are going to be put in the oppressor camp, right, And then 230 00:19:52.920 --> 00:20:00.440 you get into a crisis where the oppressor is trying to defend themselves from extinction, 231 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.920 and you know, going to the man on that, Then the logic 232 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.039 of that is kill the Jews. I mean, you get rid of them, 233 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:17.000 wipe them out. It inevitably leads down that path and there's no obvious 234 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:21.160 stopping point. Now you say, you know, we need to let people 235 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.880 give people as wide a birth as we can to express their views. I 236 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.599 agree, But there are some really hard line drawing problems here. There were 237 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:33.720 with communism too. You know, if you've seen Oppenheimer, which I haven't, 238 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.079 but I feel like I have seen it because I've engaged in many discussions 239 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:40.720 about it and read about it. The whole last third is devoted to this 240 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:45.559 kind of knee jerk, mindless you know, anti McCarthy. Oh, how 241 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:52.480 dare they deny Oppenheimer our security clearance? Well, I mean the guy, 242 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.880 even if he wasn't a card carrying communist, was certainly a fellow traveler and 243 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.839 a sympathizer. It probably wasn't a spy. But having a security clearance is 244 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:07.799 a privilege. Why should we give people who believe in a set of precepts 245 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:15.279 that would essentially abolish our way of life or undermine it fatally? Why should 246 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:19.839 we give those people a security clearance? So you know, the natural progression 247 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.839 is, well, why should we give them a coveted place and a top 248 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:29.920 shoe law firm? Well, we don't want to deprive people of their livelihood 249 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:37.720 for their opinions. But when do opinions cross over into treason? I'm very 250 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.240 hard to draw those lines. I think I find it extremely difficult. Frankly 251 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.000 so, I had a situation amy where it came to my attention that one 252 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:55.160 of my is actually an adjunct professor teaching a class on the Holocaust. Essentially 253 00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:00.480 was teaching that the Jews brought it on themselves. Okay, guess what when 254 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.799 it's an adjunct, not a tenured professor, and you're a dani, you 255 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:11.559 fire that person. But before I discovered this, I have no idea how 256 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:15.759 many students mine she poisoned with this. I only know about it because a 257 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.480 student came and told me about it and said, I couldn't believe it, 258 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:23.119 but a lot of my fellow classmates believe her. Well, let me surprise 259 00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:27.640 you by what I'm going to say about this. Saying that Jews brought it 260 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:33.759 on themselves, you know, is a kind of wary old denihilist right wing 261 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:41.359 trope. It's a far right trope. It's not a call for genocide. 262 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:45.000 It's not a call to you know, wipe out a group of people. 263 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:52.480 It's just an opinion about how something came about. And I would probably you 264 00:22:52.519 --> 00:23:00.319 know, tolerate that person saying that if I think that they otherwise, we're 265 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:07.200 giving a quality class and the sense that they were giving a rounded view on 266 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:11.960 the one hand, on the other hand, and not just giving an unbalanced, 267 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:15.519 one sided opinion. I mean, when I teach conservatism, I often 268 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.319 just say, well, you know, here's my view of things. I 269 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:23.279 don't agree with this, this theorist. I do agree with that, but 270 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:30.000 I recognize that there are several cogent arguments against what, you know, my 271 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.839 position, the position where I come down. That becomes a teaching tool, 272 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.839 that becomes a coersonal tool, The other thing is, you know why I 273 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:47.319 am really averse to this whole vocabulary of psychological harm and trauma and feeling unsafe. 274 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.279 I hate it. I don't allow it in my classes. It is 275 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.720 pernicious because once again, it's not good for conservatives. Okay, why should 276 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:02.440 students be traumatized by somebody saying that sort of thing? I mean, there 277 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:06.960 are people out there saying that they have to deal with it, They have 278 00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.000 to think about it, they have to grapple with how do we best counter 279 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.680 the opinion that Jews brought it on themselves? Why do you think Jews brought 280 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.240 it on themselves? How do they bring it on themselves? How does this 281 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.559 work? You know? I mean, this is really an occasion to delve 282 00:24:23.799 --> 00:24:30.160 into this concept and try and figure out why you think it's not correct. 283 00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:36.759 It's harder than you think. Developing counter arguments, even to you know, 284 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:41.319 what you may consider stupid and offensive arguments is very hard. And this is 285 00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:48.599 what our students are not being equipped to do right, to deal with these 286 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:55.160 arguments that they find offensive or you know, triggering some triggering. They are 287 00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:00.680 terrible at it. They are being stupidified. I am telling you it is 288 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.200 not good for them. Yeah, I mean the parallel argument, the rough 289 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.440 parallel argument, which I know you've heard, is well, it was the 290 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.319 argument of the eighteen fifties of the South, which was slavery was a positive 291 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:12.920 good, and the modern version, with some top spin now is well, 292 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.480 you know, it wasn't all bad, and that was just set everybody off 293 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:22.799 in orbit. Whereas the response to it is not an empirical one or a 294 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.279 material one. It's an argument about what is the nature of human beings in 295 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:32.240 equality? In other words, that's a much more important principle than any material 296 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.920 fact you may or may not be able to tease out right and then in 297 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.839 this case, but that ought to be part of the discussion. Yeah, 298 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:42.839 I know, it's not just the time on the cross in perics, but 299 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:48.359 it's you know, even if you could point to some positive benefits, it 300 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:55.880 still can't be justified because it's fundamentally incompatible with basic human dignity. But you 301 00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:00.519 know, you want the students to have to make those arguments, not just 302 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.920 dismiss them at dismiss the whole concept out of hand. Well, I do 303 00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:10.519 think I think you're a little too optimistic though in or maybe you're a little 304 00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:15.839 too positive about the situation I was describing it that I see very very often, 305 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.119 we're not We're talking at a one hundred two hundred level gen ed course 306 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:27.160 where not that this view was was prevalent, but that students were being taught 307 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:32.920 that was okay. Well, that is that is a violation of basic I 308 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:40.039 think professorial ethics. I think to pedal one side, a one sided extreme 309 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:44.279 view. I hate the word extreme, but that is extreme, I guess. 310 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.519 But but here's here's a parallel, just flipping the whole thing one hundred 311 00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:52.559 and eighty degrees. You know, diversity is our strength. Diversity is the 312 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.839 best thing in the world. It's the greatest thing ever. You know, 313 00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.960 there's no downside to diversity. Well, that is our students are being indoctrinated 314 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.960 with that, and nobody cares. Good news. That is just as bad 315 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:15.319 because frankly, it's bullshit. Good news. Our our Arizona Board of Regents 316 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:21.880 has forbidden the use of the word diversity as any kind of It can't be 317 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.559 used in uh in job postings, faculty postings. It can't be used in 318 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:32.160 faculty hiring. It can't. They have they have banned it. Now, 319 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.759 well, I'm not sure I'm in favor of that. I mean, I 320 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:41.039 think there is an interesting discussion to be had, very interesting, very important. 321 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.640 It's relevant to you know, admissions to immigration, It's relevant to everything 322 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:52.039 about migration, our society, uh, and what's happening with Western society. 323 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.240 It couldn't be more timely, more pertinent of what are the upsides and what 324 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:03.039 are the downsides of so called diverse And I think that define it first? 325 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.839 Neat well, right, define it? Okay, So diversity of identity, 326 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:14.759 diversity of thought, diversity of viewpoint, diversity of group membership. I mean 327 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.880 there, let's start right there. If I were to teaching a course on 328 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.559 diversity, you know, pro and con, I would start with, okay, 329 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:27.519 let's interrogate what the heck we mean by diversity? So you know, 330 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:33.000 I am not I would like to see these topics explored in ways that they 331 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:38.000 are not explored today in the academy because we have so many sacred cows. 332 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.400 The education is so one sided. I can't I mean, I can't begin 333 00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.519 to tell you how bad it is. And you know what. It starts 334 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:51.240 in K through twelve and the people are teaching K through twelve. I'm sorry 335 00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:56.640 to say these people are not rocket scientists. You know they're not, and 336 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:03.160 so the simple easilygandas yeah, that all they do is propaganda. Well, 337 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:08.119 you are probably familiar amy with some of the limited you mentioned, your sacred 338 00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:11.799 cows. Social scientists do not want to explore this question and the fear that 339 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.839 have like Robert Putnam at Harvard, a good liberal you probably know this story 340 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:21.039 delayed publishing for a whole year findings of his own empirical research that said, 341 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:26.359 increase diversity in the conventional sense of just lots of racial ethnic mixing lower social 342 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.519 trust, which is his sacred cow. There was a big study out of 343 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.799 Europe fifteen years ago that would look to be pretty rigorous that found much the 344 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.039 same thing, that support for welfare states in places like Scandinavia are inversely correlated 345 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:42.160 to ethnic homogeneity and cultural homogeneity. And by the way, I don't know 346 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:47.759 if you saw the news today, but apparently the five Scandinavian Denmark and the 347 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:49.920 rest of them, they're getting ready to try and to port large numbers of 348 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.359 migrants who are claiming asylum and you know, entitled to it. You're not 349 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:57.759 staying and you know, no one saw that coming among the diverse soocrats who 350 00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:03.880 are all wants to hold hands and sing Hosanna together. Well, that's too 351 00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:07.440 little, too late, I know. Yes, I agree, has become 352 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:15.039 a politically infused and motivated, debased field. Yes, I mean, people 353 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:18.839 tell me, you know, there's there's all of these sort of underground dissidents 354 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:23.160 who they all contact me. I swear I get an email every week or 355 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.079 ten days from someone or other somewhere in the academy. Can I talk to 356 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.799 you? Can I have off with you? Can I have lunch with you? 357 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.519 They say, you know, it's just the gloves are off. They're 358 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:38.839 told, don't don't do this project, don't research this question. You will 359 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:45.039 never get a job, you will never get promoted. You have no future 360 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:52.240 in academia. I know, very very bright my my son's cohort at college, 361 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:56.160 very bright people, many of whom are getting PhDs in various fields. 362 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:02.039 A lot of them have just given up on academia. Talking white males predominantly, 363 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.119 these people are going to disappear from academia, and academia is just going 364 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.240 to be much the worse for it. I'm telling you, well, I 365 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.599 want to ask you a couple of questions about that. One case that's been 366 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:19.839 on my mind is Roland Fryar, the young black economist at Harvard, right, 367 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:22.240 and you may know his story. I forget exactly what's working on. 368 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:26.160 But he had a whole team of graduate students. They looked at thousands and 369 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:30.200 thousands of arrest records and police interactions and debunked most of the claims of the 370 00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:33.519 Black Lives Matter crazy people. And for that, the dean of Social Sciences 371 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.279 who is now the president of Harvard, Claudine Gay, tried to get him 372 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.039 stripped of tenure and fired. This may sound too familiar to you, right, 373 00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.440 And you know what their pretext was, Well, they found some text 374 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:51.240 messages that were furtatious with a couple of graduate students women, right and all 375 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:55.359 right, maybe ill advised under the current social conventions, but hardly a hanging 376 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:59.119 offense. But she tried to get him fired anyway, and has stripped him 377 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:02.359 of his graduate with a program and couldn't strip him with tenure and fire him, 378 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:07.640 but pretty severe punishment. And it was pretty clear the motivation was he 379 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.319 was politically incorrect. So this has obviously been your case, which I know 380 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.160 you're limited what you can say about it publicly because it's still ongoing. But 381 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:20.160 the other thing I'm seeing right now is an awful lot of conservative law professors, 382 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:22.519 and you know, law professors, partly because of the Federal Society and 383 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.160 other reasons, Conservatives have always been a little stronger in law school than other 384 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.400 places, but are now starting to leave in large numbers. A whole lot 385 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.480 of our friends at the University of San Diego, including your co author that 386 00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:38.279 famous op ed from six years ago that started I think some of the trouble 387 00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:44.559 that you've had Eugene Vollock is leaving UCLA Law school, and what you hear 388 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:51.279 from people secondhand is or stovoce is we just can't stand the hostile atmosphere anymore. 389 00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:54.079 Are you hearing that? And maybe, by the way, for listeners 390 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.640 who don't know what I'm referring to, why don't you briefly tell the story 391 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:01.279 of the article you wrote with Larry Alexander and the ridiculous reaction to it. 392 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.079 Well, before I tell the story of that article, let me say that 393 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:12.079 what's happening at law schools is really, really sad. They were in some 394 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:16.960 ways kind of the last bastion to fall to political correctness. Why because they 395 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.920 needed to train young lawyers to operate in an adversary system, And an adversary 396 00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:28.799 system is a system in which you have to familiarize yourself with arguments from both 397 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:32.759 sides and master those arguments in order to represent your client. Well, I'm 398 00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:39.400 sorry to report, but those days are behind us. There's a full frontal 399 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:45.799 assault on the adversary system and on training lawyers to operate in the adversary system. 400 00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.400 Young law students, especially minority students, and their fellow travelers are demanding 401 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:59.920 to be protected and shielded from arguments they find offensive or don't want to hear. 402 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:05.000 And what's happened at Penn Law is absolutely emblematic. Last spring, the 403 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:10.880 Supreme Court decided the affirmative Action case and overturned many decades of precedent to permit 404 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:17.400 affirmative action in universities. Now the Supreme Court is said, essentially universities have 405 00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:22.480 to be colorblind to receive federal funds. Well, that has raised a hue 406 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:28.400 and cry of protest and trauma and upset in the law schools. And as 407 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:31.199 a result, I have noticed at Pen Law there has not been a single 408 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:37.679 presentation, a single panel discussion on the merits of that case. On the 409 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:43.760 actual analysis and decisions. There's been silence. And what's the reason I'm guessing 410 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:50.119 here because it would upset and traumatize the minority students to hear anybody get up 411 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.239 and defend the result in that case. I mean, that just isn't going 412 00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:58.559 to happen. Well, what kind of education is that they're going to go 413 00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:01.480 out into the world and have to deal with the progeny of that case? 414 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:06.119 Right, all of the issues that are coming down the pike that are related 415 00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:08.159 to that case, and there are many, how are they going to deal 416 00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:12.360 with that? They're not going to deal with that, all right, They're 417 00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:15.719 not going to do a very good job. Well, I think Amy that 418 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:22.039 the best already, the best evidence of that is if you read the descents 419 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:29.360 in the case itself, what you see is affirmative action putting through law school 420 00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:36.639 people on the basis of the color of their skin and their gender and propelling 421 00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:39.920 them to the top, even all the way to the Supreme Court. And 422 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.880 sorry, but John, you're saying that sut on my ear in Jackson's descents 423 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:53.760 are not very good. I'm one of the reasons in which they are really 424 00:35:53.840 --> 00:36:00.800 quite shockingly bad. Just to get concrete here, is they act as if 425 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:06.840 the rationale for affirmative action is remedial. Well, the Supreme Court repudiated that 426 00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.039 decades ago. In gruder They said, you, general societal discrimination is not 427 00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:21.559 a justification for color consciousness in university selection. Only promoting diversity for pedagogical reasons 428 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:25.280 is a justification. Well, they if you read the opinions like that never 429 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:32.400 happened. That is just so utterly unlawyally, it's so utterly kind of lawless 430 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:38.159 and irrational that it's it's stupefying. And yet they get away with writing these 431 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:45.079 decisions that are completely unmoored and unhinged from the actual legal doctrine. So one 432 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:50.599 steps further that is what we bought. Go one step further on it, 433 00:36:50.599 --> 00:36:57.079 though, because the point of the matter is if you had intelligent progressives or 434 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:02.039 liberals on the court, I think it's possible you had intelligent justices who could 435 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:08.360 have made some kind of argument. They might have muted at least the reach 436 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:13.679 of that case. They might have been able to be persuasive to some of 437 00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:15.719 the other members of the court who are capable of being persuaded. Now, 438 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.480 I'm glad that didn't happen. I'm glad. But the Left has to be 439 00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:23.920 looking at the situation that they've created. Well, Biden's not looking at the 440 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:30.400 situation he created by nominating Katangi. But you know, because he's not looking 441 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:37.480 at anything. But what a horrible mistake to put into a lifetime appointment someone 442 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:45.079 so utterly incapable of really fulfilling that position in a way damn okay, won't 443 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.280 matter a damn because what is going to happen in the way of that case 444 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:57.199 is that these institutions would are going to be bound determined to circumvent the Supreme 445 00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.480 Court mandate. It's going to be, you know, resistance like in the 446 00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:07.000 Old South, and they will. That's basically what all the presentations that are 447 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:12.320 actually taking place are directed at that question. How can we get around this? 448 00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:15.000 How can we still have diversity? They just are a dog with a 449 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:19.320 bone, makee. They can't give up on the cult of diversity. So 450 00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.480 I'm not sure it really matters the quality of the reasoning that is defending this 451 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:29.480 position. It is the position of all right thinking people. But anyway, 452 00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.920 what got me in trouble initially, But they just have a brief a mile 453 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.519 long. It's like an indictment out of the mercado of all the horrible things 454 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:44.400 I have supposedly said and why they are absolutely unacceptable. But it started with 455 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:50.280 an op ed back in twenty seventeen in which Larry Alexander and I praised the 456 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:54.519 bourgeois values and speculated that a lot of the trouble that our country has gotten 457 00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:01.320 into is because we have repudiated and rejected, in abandon and those values, 458 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:08.000 and that the culture that spawned and nurtured those values is one that everybody ought 459 00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:12.239 to seriously think about adopting. It was. It was a very kind of 460 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:17.119 anti multicultural ap ed. So that's not acceptable, of course in the academy 461 00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.480 today, but it was pretty innocuous, you know, it was. It 462 00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:25.519 was, I mean it was. The reaction was hysterical. I'm tempting to 463 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:29.599 say, it's almost like you'd said kill the Jews. Oh wait a minute, 464 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:32.719 that is what right? Again? The double standard here is just unbelievable. 465 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:37.679 And as you know that, even the social scientists who try to avoid 466 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:42.159 that keep coming up with findings that ratify that point of view, right exactly. 467 00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:46.239 So there's a whole universe of kind of conservative think tank type research and 468 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:57.840 punditry and writings that just reinforce the validity of the advisability of good old fashioned 469 00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.840 practices and values. There's a success sequence which you may have heard of, 470 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:08.119 which is if people graduate from high school, get a job, work steadily, 471 00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:13.159 get married. And I would add another factor but it's often unmentioned, 472 00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:17.320 which is obey the law, don't don't get involved in crime. Then their 473 00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:22.000 chance of being poor is in the single digits. And that's regardless of whether 474 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:27.480 you know their minority or what group they come from. And this is something 475 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:32.880 that is not taught to students. Rather they're taught about what an irredeemably racist 476 00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:37.760 society we are. Yeah, and that is you know, that's the K 477 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.000 through twelve problem. And I mean I think one of the I think this 478 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.199 is right that one of the persons who advanced that idea, the success sequence 479 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:46.840 as you call it, was Bill Galston, you know, who had been 480 00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:51.719 Bill Clinton's top domestic policy advisor for a time. Right, Well, those 481 00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:54.840 were the days we should come up with it. I know, Bill Sawyer 482 00:40:54.920 --> 00:41:01.079 at Ai and now Ian Rowe at Ai is really pushing it, and there 483 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:06.039 were some other people, but then Bill Golston I think took it up at 484 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:09.840 one point, yes, but you know, you never hear about it. 485 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:15.800 And when I introduced my students to the idea, and these are very expensively 486 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:22.679 educated young people who've been to the best schools, haven't helped them. They 487 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:28.079 have, and they have studied inequality up the wazoo and race up the wazoo, 488 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:32.159 you know, but they have never heard of this success sequence. Of 489 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:35.800 course. They've never heard of the Moyna hand report. They've never heard of 490 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:42.480 anything on the right side of the ledger at all. And they when when 491 00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.079 you inform them about this stuff, to their credit, but these are court 492 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:51.800 of the self selected students who take my course, they're kind of shocked, 493 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.119 yea. They know that they've been sold a bill of goods. So Amy, 494 00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:57.920 we need to let you go because you have to get off to dinner, 495 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:00.800 but we barely scratch the sur We want to have you back to talk 496 00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.639 more about equality, about the whole question of Jewish assimilation. It goes back 497 00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:08.360 to in our minds, to you know, Leo Strauss writing about that in 498 00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:14.400 the twenties, and that's now very cute here in America, never mind Germany 499 00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.760 seventy years ago, but now in America, which I never thought i'd see, 500 00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:21.679 but to get out. I know that your case has been grinding on 501 00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.320 now with the university whore at four or five years, and I know it's 502 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:29.840 pretty much been going since. Oh it depends on how you've I see, 503 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:34.280 but twenty twenty, it's been going on for three years plus. Yes, 504 00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.079 is there any I don't want to say light at the end of the tunnel. 505 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.280 Is there an end point for when we're going to get a result? 506 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:45.880 Or is this just like Kafka is going to go on forever, endless torment? 507 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:52.000 Well, I can't. I can't say much because my attorney has zipped 508 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.719 my lip until it is over right, because I don't want to spook the 509 00:42:54.880 --> 00:43:00.800 process. Okay, but let's just say that, you know, the Star 510 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:07.199 Chamber of the Inquisition has nothing on what I have been put through at Penn. 511 00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:12.639 But when they finally have a final decision, which I don't know, 512 00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:15.800 it could be even in a month, it could be in six months, 513 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:21.199 it could be a while. Yet, I will go totally public. I 514 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:27.320 have not signed any confidentiality agreement. I wouldn't dream of signing a non disclosure 515 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:31.840 agreement. You know, it's ironic that libs hate non disclosure agreements when it's 516 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:37.559 sexual harassment or whatever. But when it's protecting the university, then they love 517 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:44.320 them. But no, I'm going to release all of the documents, the 518 00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:52.000 transcript of this kangaroo court hearing that I had to go through, the various 519 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:58.880 decisions and appeals. Everything's going to be released in due time. Penn still 520 00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:05.840 has the chance to not embarrass itself because if it penalizes me, given you 521 00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.880 know, the innocuous things that they've charged me with saying. One of the 522 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:15.320 things they've charged me with saying is that Jews have diluted their brand. You're 523 00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:21.840 marrying and not having a lot of children. Well, every Jewish grandfa mother 524 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:27.960 in America has said that for God's sake, but a violation of their core 525 00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:32.239 values to say that. So it's stupid stuff like that that they're charging you 526 00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:38.280 with right and equitably targeted disrespect. Well you put that up against what some 527 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:46.039 of these pro Palestinian activists have been saying exactly, including faculty and students, 528 00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:53.559 and the double standard is just glaring. But once again, do they care 529 00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:59.639 about double standards? They should? Yeah. Well, well, Amy, 530 00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:02.480 I I hope that when you do get to the finish line, you will 531 00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:07.000 consider doing maybe a five part podcast series with us, or we go through 532 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.960 the whole story patiently and in detail. That would be You may not want 533 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:14.679 to relive it, but I think the world at large needs hear that story 534 00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:16.199 and would like to hear that story. So thanks very much for having that. 535 00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:20.800 And I would read chapter and verse from what they're accusing me of, 536 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:25.239 which is truly ludicrous. Yeah, so I will be happy to do that. 537 00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:29.840 Great. One quick question about that, is there an appeal from the 538 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:35.559 faculty Senate. There's several layers of appeal, That is what I say about 539 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:37.599 it. Yeah. I don't want to get you in any trouble here, 540 00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:43.039 but I have been I have been a kind of put on my litigator's hat 541 00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.360 here in the past couple of years, and it's I can't say it's been 542 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:50.599 fun. Let's just say it's been challenging. And I have a very good 543 00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:54.039 lawyer who I'm working with, and he and I have been working together. 544 00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:59.159 And then if it comes to this and I have to go to court, 545 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:04.480 there is a very prominent, big Washington firm that is going to represent me, 546 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:08.000 and an anonymous donor who has offered to pay all of the expenses pen 547 00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:12.719 by the way, has already spent seven figures on this phone. Of course, 548 00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:17.159 you know they brought in this high priced law firm. At my hearing, 549 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:22.519 they had six or seven attorneys from this high priced law firm. I 550 00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:28.400 mean, just adding up the hours, it has to be millions that they've 551 00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.800 spent on this. You have to under like what is going through their head. 552 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:37.159 But well, I wish I knew that the right Yiddish or Hebrew term 553 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:39.199 for you know, godspeed and God bless you and all the rest of that. 554 00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.400 I'll ask you with the Christian ones because that's all I've got. But 555 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.400 thanks to let you go, Thank you, I appreciate those very great to 556 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:52.679 come back on again and talk about whatever you like. Good Thanks, okay, 557 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:58.320 bye, goodbye. Don't go away, listeners, lucretiaan and I will 558 00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:09.559 be right back after these messages from some of our mystery sponsors. Well A 559 00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:14.480 Cretia, I can't wait to have Amy back on to the sometime. Maybe 560 00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:17.480 we'll even let John Yu along at the time, you know, she mentioned 561 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:21.679 briefly, and this could be a whole separate podcast. She has for several 562 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.679 years taught a course on conservatism through the law school. Although I think it's 563 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:29.840 available to graduate students and advanced undergraduates. And she shared the syllabus with me 564 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:34.280 a long time ago, and it's really good and so but then also, 565 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:37.079 you know, I made brief mention at the end of something that we didn't 566 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:40.599 have time to get into. But you know, you and I, as 567 00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:45.800 students first of Harry Jaffa and therefore, in a certain way secondarily of Leo 568 00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:51.239 Strauss, are very familiar with Strauss's famous autobiographical preface in his Spinosa book, 569 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:54.559 where he said, look, the dilemma for Jews in Germany are really anywhere. 570 00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:59.480 But he was someone raised in Germany. He was on his mind what 571 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:02.400 was going on there, and he said, our dilemma has always been assimilation 572 00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:07.480 or Zionism. Assimilation being, you know, we conform to whatever country and 573 00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:12.199 culture we're in, which means sacrificing to some extent. I think he was 574 00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:16.639 saying our particularly Jewish identity, or do we, you know, seek a 575 00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:22.079 homeland for ourselves, you know, the zion the stream of Israel. And 576 00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:25.679 you know, I've always thought, and I think Professor Jaffa thought America was 577 00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:31.119 the solution to that dilemma. And going back as far as you know George 578 00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:36.719 Washington's famous letter to the Hebrew Congregation at Newport saying, it's now no longer 579 00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:39.239 that you enjoy your rights by the toleration of others, but because your right 580 00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:44.119 of conscience is your natural right that you share in common with everybody else. 581 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:47.960 And so I forget the exact language, but it was quite flowery for Washington, 582 00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:52.239 who wasn't that way. But the last paragraph he says, so now 583 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.239 may the the you know, the children of Abraham, and you know the 584 00:48:54.360 --> 00:49:00.679 tribe of however, the famous Jewish signifiers, you now welcome and have a 585 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.920 home in America. And suddenly it doesn't look that way. I mean, 586 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:07.519 we know that, you know, anti Semitic incidents have been rising the last 587 00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:12.840 several years. But now to see Harvard and Penn and Cornell, which canceled 588 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:19.159 classes Friday because of continuing threats of violence against Jews on their campus, sounds 589 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:23.079 just like German universities in nineteen thirty three. Now, if I'm a Jew 590 00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:29.599 in America, I'm thinking to myself, it can happen here, right And 591 00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:31.800 you know, okay, I'll just stop there. That's my thought. He 592 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:38.320 say more about that, just another lucretia positive moment. I think it's rare, 593 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:46.119 right, Yeah, Actually, the German Vice Chancellor, in a video 594 00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:52.400 which I'm to understand has been seen literally ten ten million times close to something 595 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:59.920 like that, has this, and it's been the subtitles in English, Hebrew 596 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:02.440 and maybe German. I forget it, but I know that English and Hebrew 597 00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:07.599 subtitles, and and it's very interesting. You and I had a conversation a 598 00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:17.000 long time ago about German's collective guilt about what happened in the Holocaust and what 599 00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:22.039 that what that collective guilt causes them to do. But one of the things 600 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:27.599 that I was really impressed about with that, with the video that I saw, 601 00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:31.039 is Okay, you know, it wasn't so much a collective guilt. 602 00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:42.239 It was our participation in the hatred and the anisemitism that caused the Holocaust should 603 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.880 have been a lesson to us. And as a result of that, and 604 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:51.079 he says, as a result of the Holocaust, that is why Israel exists 605 00:50:50.679 --> 00:50:52.320 as a as a place of safety, as a place that you knew, 606 00:50:52.559 --> 00:51:00.440 da da da da da. And it is our absolutely unwavering commitment meant to 607 00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:07.079 Israel is the only appropriate uh, path for German Germany to take, and 608 00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:12.440 we will we will support Israel in whatever they decide to do against Tamas. 609 00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.039 And he goes on and on, and he says, because we can do 610 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:21.119 nothing else. This is a uniquely German responsibility, which I actually I was 611 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:27.519 quite quite impressed with, as oppose, you know, say to the equivocation, 612 00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:34.760 the you know, just the abject cowardice of so many, so many 613 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:38.639 elites in America who just you know, it's not to say that they have 614 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:43.880 no moral clarities, is just becoming trite, it is, you know, 615 00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:45.039 I mean, do you see what I mean by that? Yeah? All 616 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:49.559 right, I mean what what is? What is our vice president announced this 617 00:51:49.639 --> 00:51:54.000 week we're going to have a program to about the problems of Islamophobia, Right, 618 00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:59.039 I mean, that's what really I mean. I that suggests that they're 619 00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:01.760 terribly worried about lou using the Muslim vote in Michigan next year, which is 620 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:07.119 lean democratic. Did you know, you know, I decided to h I 621 00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:08.599 wish I had time to take this, but sorry, Steve, I have 622 00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:14.159 to stop you there for a second. A glib and there may be a 623 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:22.599 kernel of truth to that, but please do not misunderstand the ugly, the 624 00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:27.559 inability of the Biden administration truly to understand what's at stake here. They are 625 00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.760 creatures of the left, no doubt about it, right, you know, 626 00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:34.760 I mean people keep saying, well, well, b Lincoln's been sidelined this 627 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:39.400 and now there's something back to Israel. How is anybody as incompetent and corrupt 628 00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:45.320 despicable as that guy Anthony Blincoln, you know, mister fifty one intelligence special 629 00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:52.679 initiator. How is he still Secretary of State? How are we actually in 630 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:58.320 this position where we have so many corrupting, confetent people now running our government. 631 00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:01.840 You know, why can't we get somebody like German Vice Chancellor Robert Habeck 632 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.320 unequivocal, you know, unequivocal in his support for Israel because he understands what's 633 00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:12.960 at stake. And I'm so frustrated. Well, that was my joke last 634 00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:16.599 week, was we're now applauding German police saying your papers please at the border, 635 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:20.960 as I saw on the train two weeks ago, and now saying can 636 00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:23.360 we please have a German foreign minister instead of ours? But that's the bizarre 637 00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:29.039 world we live in. But you know, I got to thinking, I 638 00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:35.000 haven't seen any statements from the diversity equity inclusion rabble from a Harvard or pan 639 00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:37.039 of these places. So I checked at Berkeley, you know, or your 640 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:42.639 I checked at Berkeley because you know the big flashy DEI person they brought in 641 00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:46.239 and named vice chancellor for the position, right, lady named Danny Mattos, 642 00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:51.800 who said that her main purpose in life was battling white supremacy. Well, 643 00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:53.599 I thought, well, has she issued any statements about what's going on? 644 00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:59.079 Well? I looked, no statements since October seventh. There was a statement 645 00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:05.000 issued on October nine, and it was offering support and concern for Berkeley students 646 00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:10.119 in the aftermath of the earthquake in Afghanistan. That's what they issued that week. 647 00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:14.519 That was the only statement from the Diversity office at Berkeley in the week 648 00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.039 since then, in the week following October seven. There's been a couple of 649 00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:22.400 others, you know, a silly, irrelevant thing since then. And but 650 00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:24.199 that isn't understand It doesn't surprise me at all. Of course, I think 651 00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:28.480 this ratifies what we know, but it's still a lot to be embarrassing these 652 00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.159 universities that say, oh, we're all forered. Somebody said here the last 653 00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:36.480 couple of days, DEI really ought to stand for division, exclusion, and 654 00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:37.960 ideology, which I'm going to run with that. I like, I would 655 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:44.760 say idiots, but okay to be run it. So there's a little again, 656 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:49.159 a little good news. Though it's absolutely true that just about all of 657 00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:54.519 the elites, not all of them, granted, are just so fundamentally unsound. 658 00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:59.719 But I was watching a video of the last the last game of the 659 00:54:59.760 --> 00:55:02.679 World World Series after the last game was over, and of course it was 660 00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:09.039 held in Arizona, and there were a bunch of pro Palestinian protesters lining the 661 00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:14.920 I guess it was the egress from what is it now State for I can't 662 00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:16.639 keep up with what they rename them, but I think it's State Farm Stadium, 663 00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:22.519 whatever it is now. And the people were just they were they were 664 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:27.679 making fun of the Palestinian protesters. They were flipping them off, they were 665 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:34.320 calling them unsavory names that we don't use on this family podcast. But it 666 00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:37.519 made me happy. You know, how is it that those people have some 667 00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:45.079 moral clarity about what's happening and our stupid president? What the presidents have any 668 00:55:45.119 --> 00:55:50.679 clarity? But mophead and you know, Anthony Lincoln calling y'all ready for a 669 00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:52.840 season, on and on and on. How is it that we're back at 670 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:57.880 the place that I've talked about before, where at the average American is just 671 00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:04.039 so fundamentally more in intelligent, more capable of seeing issues as they ought to 672 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:09.320 be seen, seeing the moral importance of issues than any of our leads. 673 00:56:09.400 --> 00:56:13.719 And I think that's a big takeaway right now. Yeah, Well, that's 674 00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:16.639 why I like to say it'd be good if we get back to self government, 675 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:21.360 because then people like that would actually have their voice counted. Which brings 676 00:56:21.400 --> 00:56:22.719 me to I think our last subject for the day. I mean, we'll 677 00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:25.239 talk more about this whole business, of course, because it's not over. 678 00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:31.840 But speaking of self government, our new speaker I think has also met with 679 00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:35.519 your approval this week, which is, you know, this is Scots. 680 00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:38.239 Everything's coming up aces with you for a change. This is an unusual week. 681 00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:43.599 Well no, I mean, I think we're in a truly horrible place 682 00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:47.519 right now, but I am looking at certain places and saying, wow, 683 00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:52.880 that's a good news. That was a bit unexpected. Again, the whole 684 00:56:52.920 --> 00:57:00.679 thing with the German Vice chancellor. It's an interesting twist on the commentary you 685 00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:05.559 and I had about that German collective guilt. If it's turned into something positive 686 00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:07.079 like that, I think it should be I think it should be celebrated. 687 00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:12.639 But yes, back to Mike Johnson, so he did, in fact refuse 688 00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:17.800 to take up despite that despicable excuse for oh, I have no words. 689 00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:25.239 I want to keep this family friendly friendly. The turtle who couldn't be any 690 00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:30.239 more corrupt or despicable if he tried, wanting to go along with the Biden's 691 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:36.960 plan, Biden Administration's plan to give a huge chunk of money and divide it 692 00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:44.599 up between giving one hundred million to the Palestinians for reliefing Goza giving, however, 693 00:57:44.719 --> 00:57:49.320 many millions to Ukraine, giving billions, yes, sorry, billions to 694 00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:52.199 Ukraine, a few billions, fourteen billion. Maybe they were going to give 695 00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:57.599 to israel I forget, and you know he pushed hard for it. He 696 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:02.239 yeah, polytic with Democrats for it. But Mike Johnson said, no, 697 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:06.000 we're not doing that now. Whether it'll get through I doubt it. But 698 00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:09.159 well, listeners know, in case they haven't had the news, is what 699 00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:15.800 Johnson got through an Israel only aid package. At Israel only aid package paid 700 00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:19.960 for Oh yes, bye, right, I mean This is the best part, 701 00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:24.039 because you remember me telling you that the most important thing for me was 702 00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:29.440 not aid to Israel, not monetary aid to Israel. I'm okay with the 703 00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:31.800 Iron Dome being sent things like that, but I don't want to see Israel 704 00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:37.280 become another Ukraine. For all the things I hate about Ukraine. But I 705 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:44.159 am perfectly I am so okay with the idea of cutting the funding from those 706 00:58:44.639 --> 00:58:52.039 additional eighty seven thousand IRS agents and using that funding to pay for more aid 707 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:54.840 to Israel. I just think that's beautiful. Yeah. So he held all 708 00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:59.400 the Republicans but two together, and he got a dozen Democrats to vote for 709 00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:01.840 it. So Schumer is saying, we're not even going to vote on this 710 00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:06.079 in the Senate. Okay, that's gonna be the Senate's fault. But Israel's 711 00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:09.079 not getting the aid. Let them live with that. So and they can 712 00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:14.920 complain about Ukraine not getting the aid, but nobody cares about that. Nobody 713 00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:17.000 care. So I'm serious. Yeah, I really mean it. I mean 714 00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:22.280 And then McConnell got up and made the same argument that our friend and who's 715 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:24.599 right about most everything else, even if she's wrong about this, we shouldn't 716 00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:28.840 be so upset about sending all this money to Ukraine because because so much of 717 00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:34.840 it goes back into our defense contractors, which helps communities. Minds your pocket. 718 00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:37.239 Yeah, I know, you know, I know. But anyway, 719 00:59:37.480 --> 00:59:43.440 so there's my little bit of positive. I am, like you, distressed 720 00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:52.000 at how widespread the protests, the pro Palestinian anti Israel protests around the world 721 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:59.360 became in our own country. It's it's really, it's very upsetting. This 722 00:59:59.440 --> 01:00:05.280 week, this month is Hispanic Heritage Month. So I got some stupid email 723 01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:09.960 from somebody in the university and I sent back, where's your statement condemning himas 724 01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:15.239 But I heard I heard nothing. Yeah, I heard nothing. Imagine that, 725 01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:22.719 Steve. Yeah, that's not loud. I mean yeah. The funny 726 01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:25.599 thing is is that the issue that you've been harping on harp I shouldn't say 727 01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:30.840 like that, because it's not harping. It's it's actually it's a thoughtful theme 728 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:37.639 of yours, which is we really need to understand are what freedom of speech 729 01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:43.239 is and what its purpose is. And you know the what is it is? 730 01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:46.000 It Canavan's book purposes Limit. Yeah, well, Frank Canavan, who 731 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:50.760 really was running off I think, is starting with and dilating the point Jaffa 732 01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:54.440 made and his famous essay from sixty plus years ago in the Nature of Civil 733 01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:59.400 Religious Liberty. And you know, I've tried to state that point a few 734 01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:00.880 times. When I think I've mangled it, it's because it's kind of subtle, 735 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:04.840 and I don't do a very good job very subtle. Yeah, well 736 01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:07.320 we should go on. We will take it up. Yeah, we'll take 737 01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:09.559 it up in a more serious way. But we've run out of time for 738 01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:14.519 today, so we've gone way over. So you've got some bee stuff. 739 01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:17.480 I've got a I've got a sort of a canialism, uh, I say, 740 01:01:17.599 --> 01:01:28.119 cannibalism catalysts. Yeah. Well, she gave a speech on artificial intelligence 741 01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:30.280 this week, which is a joke right there. But apparently, or maybe 742 01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:35.800 it was last week, but she said, AI is kind of a fancy 743 01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:42.760 thing. I know, I know. Oh my God, have a fancy 744 01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.920 thing. Oh this is great stuff. Yeah, the gift that keeps on 745 01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:47.280 giving. You got some bees for us? Yeah, I do. And 746 01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:52.000 I'm just going to keep it short this time, so we may never know 747 01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:58.599 exactly what Hamas wants, says reporter in front of Hamas holding exterminate juice sign. 748 01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:02.960 Yeah, you know, I mean, geez again, the moral clarity. 749 01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:08.960 I do have to tell you that this. I'm going to do this 750 01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:15.199 anyway. But the Babylon be headline on the night that the Texas Rangers won 751 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:22.239 the World Series God Rewards only team that doesn't have a Pride night, right 752 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:24.719 the World Series win. I think that's true too, Yeah, it is 753 01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:29.199 true. Yeah. Actually that's why it came out before that they were the 754 01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:31.800 only ones that didn't have a Pride night. And you know what, that's 755 01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:38.280 okay. Palestinian protester tries to argue with Skinhead, but they just agree on 756 01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:45.559 everything. That's a neglected point. I mean, remember how the world I 757 01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:49.480 mean, we just we went to deaf Con one when you know what a 758 01:02:49.480 --> 01:02:52.679 one hundred and twenty five I mean, I call them losers. I think 759 01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:57.000 upset some readers, you know, Charlottesville with their tiki torches chanted Jewish shall 760 01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:59.320 not replace us in the world. Oh my god, it was like the 761 01:02:59.320 --> 01:03:02.360 greatest morals in America. Suddenly we're not hearing that now, are we? 762 01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:06.679 And I think we know why? Yeah, of course we know why. 763 01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:09.400 And I do I have no more babylonbies. I'll let that go, but 764 01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:15.599 I do have a comment. And this was based upon talking to someone I 765 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:23.480 know. We were we were commenting about the videos of people taking down the 766 01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:30.960 photos the posters of kidnapped, that people being held hostage, not detained, 767 01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:37.280 being held hostage, kidnapped and held hostage in Gaza. And one of the 768 01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:42.920 things that she pointed out to me, being a intelligence person, is that 769 01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:46.800 they were not taking those down and sort of crumpling them up and throwing them 770 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:51.760 in the trash or anything like that. They were taking them down and stacking 771 01:03:51.800 --> 01:03:57.519 them. Look at some of the videos, holding on to them. And 772 01:03:58.599 --> 01:04:04.480 based upon her experience, it's in Afghanistan. Uh, that's what happens when 773 01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:08.119 somebody's paying you to do it, because you go back and say, look 774 01:04:08.119 --> 01:04:15.360 how many Oh interesting, yes, and so I again, why they would 775 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:18.000 be paying someone to do that is no mystery, of course, But who 776 01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:23.920 is it? Iran is it? Who is doing this? Who is paid? 777 01:04:24.639 --> 01:04:27.280 You know, cutter, It's hard to it could be more than you 778 01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:30.800 know, it could who knows, but it is interesting watch and see take 779 01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:33.239 a look at some of those videos because they're everywhere. You know, you 780 01:04:33.320 --> 01:04:36.000 can see them all over Twitter, you can see them all over everywhere, 781 01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:39.840 and you know. Some of them, of course, are crushing, and 782 01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:43.639 some of are just dumb, ideal, you know, stupid ideologues. But 783 01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:48.960 others I think are a little bit ideologues and getting paid interesting. Yeah wow, 784 01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:55.239 all right, do you want to do the thing? I'll do a 785 01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:58.840 little, and you do a little. Okay, first of all, because 786 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:01.199 I'm at work, and and Steve got going a little bit earlier, and 787 01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:03.800 he's had a rough day. He doesn't even have a whiskey in front of 788 01:05:03.880 --> 01:05:08.280 him. I'm going to remind him we are drinking the whiskey. We have 789 01:05:08.360 --> 01:05:11.599 always been drinking, and that time to drink the whiskey is every day. 790 01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:15.440 I know, I messed it up a little, that's all right. I'm 791 01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:20.719 always drink your whiskey. Meat, don't forget to serve to don't guess a 792 01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:25.119 soft serve power dividend. See, we're rusted all this. Yeah, boy 793 01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:27.880 man, oh man, either that. I'm tired. Okay, your turn, 794 01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:31.239 the rest of them. Let's go Brandon and God save the Queen man. 795 01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:33.960 Bye bye, everybody. We think we'll d you back next week. 796 01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:39.000 We hope so. Because it makes some people mad, but it makes other 797 01:05:39.039 --> 01:06:32.440 people happy. By Ricochet joined the conversation