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Richard Golan, Nice to meet you. Thanks so much for doing this,

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very glad to do it. Yeah. So, as a historian and a

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researcher of the phenomenon UFOs and aliens
and abductions, what is the piece of

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evidence that made you believe that we
are being visited by extraterrestrials. I would

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say it was very early on in
my own research into this as upset.

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A few times. I fell into
the UFO subject almost by accident. I

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was at the time, in the
nineteen nineties that pretty engaged graduate student in

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a US Cold War history studying really
US security policy of circa nineteen fifty Harry

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Truman presidency, and I just walked
into a store one day that had a

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book on the shelf that talked about
the worldwide UFO cover up that was by

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Timothy Good and I bought the book
because I went flipping through it, I

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noticed that there were quite a few
names that I had studied in my academic

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research departments that I thought I knew
their history, and yet here was this

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man putting all of these things in
a UFO context. And I guess my

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first thought was, I don't like
having a big unknown mystery hovering over this

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area that I was trying to become
an expert in. Everyone, even in

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the nineties had heard claims of a
UFO cover up, So I thought,

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is this something that they actually were
interested in? Did they resolve it that

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they figure it out? Yes or
no? And I just simply decided I

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would take a few months out of
my life to dive into it and decide

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for myself. And that was my
fatal rabbit hole move. What convinced me

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quickly, very quickly that this was
quite serious. We're simply reviewing the then

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available declassified United States government documents through
FOYA through freedom of information, which you

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know, the FOIA era really began
for UFOs in general in the late nineteen

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seventies. FOYO was strengthened significantly right
at the end of Richard Nixon's presidency,

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and it was not long before quite
a few researchers started petitioning the government for

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UFO related documents, and too,
I think a lot of people's shock,

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many documents kind of fell out of
that tree, and they didn't. There

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was no single document, There is
no single declassified documents that proves UFOs a

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alien. There's no document that says, you know, mister President, we

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have an alien incursion in such and
such a location. But what I would

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say is that there are many documents
that proof did They do not hint,

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they don't suggest, but they actually
do prove that the US military had engaged

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and tracked and engaged a large number
of objects that can only be described as

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flying saucers or UFOs, and in
a way that got them to a level

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of very high concern. And that's
quite fasting. So and and then of

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course there's a whole other number of
documents where you track these officials discussing the

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UFO problem in a way that's obviously
very serious. All at the same time,

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we're talking nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties
that the official Air Force releases and

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government statements all were totally dismissive of
the phenomenon. Would be well, why

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would they be? Are they concerned
that it is a off planet intelligence or

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are they concerned of people figuring out
their advanced technology? Well, in fact,

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I think you know. Nineteen ninety
seven, the official historian of the

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CIA was a man named Gerald K. Haines. Wrote an article for the

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publication Studies and Intelligence nineteen ninety seven
was the fiftieth anniversary of Roswells, a

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lot of things going on, and
he publishes this article, declassified version of

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which he can read, and it
said, yeah, you know, all

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of those UFO sidings of the nineteen
fifties, turns out we were really flying

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the U two aircraft and the A
twelve ox cart, all these surveillance and

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high speed, high performance aircraft,
and people were mistaking them for UFOs,

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and we didn't really want to tell
you what they were, so we allowed

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the public to believe that they were
UFOs. That was his argument, and

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you know, mainstream media, of
course, just lapped it up and repeated

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it without any critical thought. That
was an exercise in total disinformation. And

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I really do think. I think
there's a quote from Bertrand Russell to the

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effect that a philosopher who used his
skill for propaganda instead of truth is committing

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the greatest of crimes. And I
really do think that that was what was

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happening there. But in reality,
there was always testing of advanced aircraft,

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of course, but we have to
ask ourselves what is the evidence for the

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kinds of breakthroughs that people were reporting, and the fact that it was being

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tracked worldwide by all militaries the United
States, the Soviets were tracking their own

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UFOs. This would be one heck
of a secret weapons testing program that would

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require this much of a level of
secrecy. And I'm not saying that we

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haven't made such some impressive developments in
the classified world. I think we have.

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But when you really look through the
long history of these sidings, I

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think this is my estimate of the
scenario. I think what happened is in

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at some point in the nineteen forties, certainly by nineteen forty seven, the

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President Harry Truman, was informed that
we had acquired exotic technology and bodies that

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did not come from here. This
is what I think. And if you

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are that president, you have to
decide what do you What do you do

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about that? How do you tell
the world? And of course you're gonna

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have advice is all around you telling
you what you're supposed to do, which

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is that there's no way you can
share this information. First of all,

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the nineteen forty seven that the Soviets
were trying desperately to get their own version

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of an atomic bomb. They had
spies in the system, and they were

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working in the United States certainly did
not want them to get access to it.

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The United Nations at that time was
at least for a wildhead lobby to

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have atomic or nuclear technology under the
control of the United Nations. The US

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answer to that was no, thank
you, We're going to keep this to

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ourselves. This would be the quickest
way to give it to people we don't

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want. So if the US was
not willing to share nuclear technology, I

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cannot possibly imagine they would want to
share something as exotic as alien tech.

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And the problem is to acknowledge that
this is a real thing. I just

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think that that is way too easy
to open the door to all of these

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other problems, Like you don't want
to just let the world know you've got

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bodies, you've got technology. And
I think that's where they were at for

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the longest time. So I think
the problem went deeply classified pretty early on,

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and we've been in that world ever
since. You know, you start,

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you start down the road of lies
and secrecy, then the question becomes,

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how, if ever do you end
it. It's like a man who's

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cheated on his wife for a month, that's one thing. He cheats on

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his wife for ten years. It's
a big thing if chets on his wife

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for twenty five years, how do
you unwind that? That's essentially what the

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US government has been doing. I
say government loosely, the National security Apparatus,

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national Security State, and the privatized
sectors within that now participate in this.

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This secret has gone to an extent
where unraveling it is going to be

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difficult, and fessing up to the
truth I think is it's a political problem

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of culpability, and this is the
problem we're into this day. You know,

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we're in an era where we're supposedly
talking more openly about UFOs or UAP,

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and yes, to some extent we
are. But there's a couple of

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red lines in this conversation, and
to me, the biggest red line is

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the conspiracy slash cover up red line, where the US government just cannot allow

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itself to be culpable in an eighty
year old massive lie to the world on

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something of this magnitude. I just
don't think that they're prepared for that.

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We are in an era where you
are not supposed to believe in conspiracy theories

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of all at all, and you
know, can one imagine the United States

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President saying, well, don't believe
in conspiracy theories, except this one,

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the UFO one's true. Yeah,
but none of the author ones Like that's

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just not a policy that's going to
work. So they've they've gotten themselves into

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a very difficult situation, and I
don't know how they're really going to extract

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themselves. Yeah, it's just really
interesting how if it is indeed a cover

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up and if aliens crashing roles well
in nineteen forty seven, all these years

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later, they're finally saying that UFOs
are real. Now, mind you,

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they haven't said that extraterrestrials are real. They're just saying that UFOs are real,

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that they're really unidentified objects. And
the Pentagon's kind of classified anything as

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an unidentified object. Now, it's
a smart move, it's a very smart

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move. You know. We not
long ago, as of this recording,

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the Chinese were accused of having some
spy balloons to go across the United States

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and and the media, of course, we're glad to characterize these as UFOs

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or UAP. That was really kind
of disingenuous, but it was smart because

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it and the US government was happy
to characterize these as UAP. And indeed,

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in the Arrow the All Domain Anomaly
Resolution Office, thank you. Those

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hearings with doctor Sean Kirkpatrick. They
referred to these Chinese balloons as UAP also,

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and that's kind of smart from the
point of view of just wanting to

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bury any kind of anomalous nature of
UFOs for real. By doing that,

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you're just throwing in balloons and you're
calling them UFOs or UAP, And I

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think there's a real psychological effect of
that. When you do that often enough

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in the public, you really just
tend taking the flying saucers out of the

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UAP phenomen Yeah, I just won't
understand why anybody would believe what the government

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is saying, if indeed they have
been covering up extraterrestrial life for all of

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these years, do they not remember
like what they've been doing. Like,

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I just don't get in, And
it feels like we're in the sloop of

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a bunch of regurgitated information and people
are just talking about the same things over

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and over and over again, and
it's not really get in anywhere, and

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we're still on the exact same topic. If there's something really deep that's missing

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from this UFO and alien subject that
I haven't quite put my finger on.

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I mean, I think that I
know, but I want to get your

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opinion on this on what you think
is actually missing from this, Like we

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can come to these conferences, conferences
year after year after year, and it

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seems like the same questions are being
asked and mostly for the most part,

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the same types of presentations are being
done, and we're no closer to anything

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actually happening. Yeah, that's a
great question. I want to answer in

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two ways. The first thing that
you got me thinking of is why does

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the government continually get away with this? Like do they think we're stupid?

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And my feeling on this is there
are not everyone's of the same level of

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doing analysis of things, and in
fact, most people are just not in

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a position where they can really actively
question the government and you know, fight

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the power and spend their lives as
an independent researcher getting to the bottom of

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things. Most people don't have that
time. Most people have jobs at families,

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they have responsibilities, and they don't
desire to fight the system. In

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fact, they want to believe in
the system. It's easier for them.

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So there's a huge portion of the
population that's yeah, they'll say on one

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level, yeah, they're all crooks. We can't believe them, but then

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they do believe them anyway, And
I think that's the vast, vast majority

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of people. Then there's another group
of let's say, very intelligent people,

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but they are ensconced within the system. And what I mean by that is

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if you're if you're an intelligent person
and you want to make money in this

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world, you want to have a
successful career, this is what happens you.

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The amount of pressure on you to
conform to an ideological belief system is

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overwhelming in your profession, in your
job. And I mean, unless you

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have some kind of career death wish
or you are an absolute, fanatical,

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independently minded intellectual, you're going to
conform with that. Even though you're a

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very smart person. You will you'll
allow your intellect to go in this direction,

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in that direction. But on the
UFO issue, you're you're gonna tell

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the line because you just know it's
the third rail for your career. There's

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a very small percentage of like self
educated, smart, motivated people who just

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want to devote themselves into this to
get behind the scene. So those people,

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yeah, you talk to them and
they're like, yes, it's obvious.

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The government's been lying and how could
we possibly believe them? But they're

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not dominating the media, they're not
dominating, uh, you know, any

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of the public discourse by and large. So I think that's that's actually our

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situation now. What you're asking in
terms of what's not being said. This

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is a very strong interest of mine
because I am convinced that the UFO research

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community is missing most of the important
questions relating to this incredible, astonishing topic

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of UFOs aliens UAP. We're at
the point here in our public discourse where

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you see this community of ours is
I think really being guided by the Pentagon

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nowadays, And the Pentagon's attitude is, well, we're yeah, but there

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may be something that's unusual out there. Wow, it really could be.

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We're going to look into this and
when we get answers, we're going to

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get back to you on that.
That's sort of where they are at right

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now, which is absurd, It's
ridiculous. Anyone who's looked at their interaction

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with this over the last eighty years
knows that they have dramatically, just vastly

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more information than that. But but
there's just what's not being asked. Well,

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it's being removed from our conversation.
One thing that's removed from our conversation

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is the entire history of the UFO
subject. Anything really through the twentieth century

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is I think, is almost being
exponge or is siphoned out of our conversation.

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It's as if there was no UFO
subject in the twentieth century. I

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mean, it's incredible to me.
And when you hear anyone discuss it,

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for example, doctor Sean Kirkpatrick of
the Arrow Group, he is essentially dismisses

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it because, well, we don't
have good data from those cases. I

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don't agree with that whatsoever. I
think there has been excellent data. But

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the twentieth century has just been removed. So now once again UFO r UAP

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and it's a new thing and there's
no cover up. It takes the cover

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up, takes the conspiracy out of
the whole phenomenon. Another thing that's not

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being discussed that is every bit as
important as the history, is the scale

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of activity of this phenomenon, which
is worldwide and dense, dense, dense

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population of activity. We don't we
are so on the back foot here in

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our our poor ability to track these
sightings worldwide. We really have. I

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think there's no excuse we should be
doing much better now. We're well into

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the twenty first century. We are
well into the age of the web and

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en intuconnectivity and everything else, and
there is no excuse. We've got instant

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translators, different languages. It's really
not a big deal anymore. We need

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data from around the world. But
what the data that we do have looks

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like is that, by my best
guess estimation, tens of thousands of good

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UFO sightings are probably happening around the
world every year. So what are they

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doing? And you know, for
every UFO sighting, how many objects are

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there that are not even being seen
because we're clearly not seeing them all.

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So there's I think a great deal
of activity going on in all regions of

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the world, over cities, over
deserts, over mountains, in oceans,

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in space. There is no area
where these things can't be. So they've

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got a global capacity and a global
presence of and they're extremely advanced. So

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I mean, you just stop and
think we're in an era right now of

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a global revolution going on all around
us. Anyone with eyes can see that.

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And at the same time, something
we're not talking about is where I

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would say, blanketed by a phenomenon
that is of utterly awesome implications and we're

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just not appreciating that. Okay,
So I guess my the problem with the

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government coming on and seeing that the
wheeled out an extra trestur this is under

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the assumption that extra tresturals are real
physical beings, which is debatable. Let's

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see, they just rolled one out
right now in front of the White Eyes

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trying to the Pentagon. All the
news people were there because of their supposed

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cover up. That's going to create
more chaos from the world, right,

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that's going to create so much distrust
within the institutions, as if there isn't

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enough distrust already there. I mean, there's people saying now that there's so

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much distrust within these three letter organizations
and within the government, within the Pentagon

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that they have to hire outside people
to go to these events and talk to

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people that are paid by the government
to put out information. Right, yeah,

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several of them. So I think
that they've really screwed themselves. If

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extra trestrials are real and their actual
real physical beings, they've screwed themselves because

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if there were just a roll out
in extra trestrial right now, be like,

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oh, yeah, I guess what. We've been lying to you guys

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for eighty years now since Roswell,
or even before Roswell, because apparently as

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a trustial craft has been crashing for
hundreds of years now. So I think

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that that is the actual problem.
If it was an extraterrestrial that crash and

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roll as well, they should have
just came out and been like, hey,

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it's an extra strestrial. Then they
wouldn't have had this problem because then

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people would have been aware. But
since they think that there's been a cover

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up and then they roll out an
extra trestrial and everyone sees it, that's

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going to create more turmoil. And
that's why I don't think that they're ever

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going to do it. I tend
to agree with that. I read a

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book on this thirteen years ago called
an After Disclosure, and back then I

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said, disclosure is a paradox.
It's impossible, but it's inevitable. And

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there's definitely an impossibility because there's absolutely
no motivation for the powers that be to

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want to give this up. It's
just a can of worms, absolute god

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awful mess for them. There may
be certain inevitabilities about it, though.

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I mean, I just don't think
it's possible to keep something secret forever forever.

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Maybe it is, maybe maybe certain
things can be kept seeking forever,

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but I don't think so. And
so the question is how does that get

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resolved and when. What I think
has turned out since I wrote that book

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is that we've seen a very significant
centralization and control over the flow of information

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in our world to an extent that
I didn't exceed in twenty ten as where

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we are now, so I think
it is actually possible for very dominant narrative

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control to exist on this So it
kind of controlled rollout of information on a

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limited basis might actually be possible in
a way that I didn't think was possible

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a decade ago. Thanks so much, pleasure, appreciate you, bet