WEBVTT

1
00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:45.359
Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

2
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:53.280
Alejandro Rojas, and I am here
with Martin UFO. Willis yo. How

3
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:58.719
you doing? I'm not too bad. Someone contacted me the other day.

4
00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:03.079
Yeah, he listens to both of
our shows, and his wife, who

5
00:01:03.319 --> 00:01:10.680
is I believe Peruvian, said,
hey, they're pronouncing his name, Alejandro's

6
00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:18.000
name wrong and it's supposed to be
Are you ready for this, Alejandro Rojas?

7
00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:23.519
Oh? Nice? Yeah, I
am well aware actually that I pronounced

8
00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.719
my name wrong. But you know
what, so you can do what you

9
00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.200
want, right, Yeah, it
is my name, so I could say

10
00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.799
that, you know. Actually,
because it is my name, I could

11
00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:38.439
say no, I pronounced it in
a special way because some people do that,

12
00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.319
you know, they'll pronounce like Gulette
in the last Yeah, it's like

13
00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:48.359
Gulette or I can't remember. Oh, you know, there's that show,

14
00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:53.920
what is it Keeping Up with Appearances
BBC show where their name is Bucket and

15
00:01:53.959 --> 00:02:02.879
she says it's Bouquet. That's like
sharp sharp at Targai. Yeah. Yeah,

16
00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:07.719
so I could say that, But
the other problem is I can't roll

17
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:13.000
my rs. My my mouth is
not built that way. Oh so you

18
00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:20.560
were born with the wrong last name. I can't do it. You know.

19
00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:23.560
That's as close as like, yeah, I can't do it. I've

20
00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:30.080
tried all my life. So I
apologize. I hope it doesn't offend anybody.

21
00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:32.879
But the only person it should have
it should anger is myself. I

22
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:36.759
guess if if that's right, that
would be the only one getting mad.

23
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:42.360
Hey, you my name wrong?
So yourself already? Yeah, and actually

24
00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:46.199
I'm cool. And you know,
it's so funny. Someone was just saying

25
00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:50.240
that yesterday. Oh, Mark,
Mark D'Antonio was in town. Uh,

26
00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.360
he spoke for Phoenix Move On and
we were hanging out last night and he

27
00:02:53.479 --> 00:03:00.960
was laughing about how someone who runs
the local mof on calls me Aleandre and

28
00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:04.479
a lot of people do. I
have a coworker here that does And he

29
00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.960
was laughing because he can say Alejandro, and uh, I'm like, yeah,

30
00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:14.280
even though I've known these people for
years, they've always said a Leandro

31
00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:19.000
and I don't mind, you know
what, I know who they reference and

32
00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:22.759
they're not doing it to me means, so whatever they want, I am

33
00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:27.120
fine with. Yeah, anybody ever
do that with you call you Martin,

34
00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:37.400
No Marta, I'm called Marty.
It's funny Marty by all the childhood people

35
00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:40.560
that I run across, including family, and then you know Martin, as

36
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:46.319
I got older, so I don't
even care whatever. Yeah me too,

37
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:53.719
I'm like whatever, they don't have
to roll the rolling Martin ulise. Oh

38
00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:59.159
but Alejandro means red. I believe
Ross means red. Oh that's what I

39
00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:05.800
meant. Ro Rojas is like and
Martin means God of Mars. So the

40
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.439
red planet. There's some type of
connection. Maybe we should be the first

41
00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.400
volunteers to live on Mars. Part
of that, well, Alajndro is like

42
00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:18.800
the defender of mankind or something like
that. I heard for mankind red.

43
00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:25.360
Yeah, and red Mars is the
red planet. So I guess I'm you

44
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.959
are like gonna be in charge of
Mars and I'm gonna be like your head

45
00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:38.040
of the military. I guess where
I'll be defending Mars Defense Department. Yeah,

46
00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:41.720
all right, Cool, it's gonna
be fun. Yeah, cool,

47
00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.759
which reminds me, uh, you
know, that's cool. This is something

48
00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:48.560
cool, and this is this is
pertinent. You know, if people are

49
00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:53.439
starting to get upset because they want
us to talk about UFOs and space and

50
00:04:53.480 --> 00:05:00.680
stuff, you know this will be
a good segue I I got invited.

51
00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:05.839
I get invited once in a while
by this company that promotes science and film

52
00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:13.240
to go fly her to places and
you know, see these interviews, or

53
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:16.360
sometimes they'll set me up with interviews. So I've had interviews with you know,

54
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:21.319
movie makers and scriptwriters and stuff.
Hopefully some of you have seen some

55
00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:26.480
of those blogs and stuff that I
Usually they're usually blogs for the Huffington Post,

56
00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:30.399
but if I can get these people
to talk about UFOs, then I'll

57
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:33.279
do a story on open Minds,
and sometimes I do. In fact,

58
00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:42.360
I've had the scriptwriter for that Will
Smith's and his son that movie they did

59
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.920
on the show, because he was
into UFOs and stuff a bit. But

60
00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.600
anyway, they invited me to go
to I think it's going to be Johnson's

61
00:05:51.600 --> 00:06:00.000
Space Center next week and they're going
to do a kind of a press conference.

62
00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:04.040
It's gonna be about the Martian.
Maybe this is probably, you know,

63
00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:09.959
helping to ramp up some excitement before
the Academy Awards, because I think

64
00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:15.879
now is when they're all vying and
trying to market themselves to win awards.

65
00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.920
And so I'm gonna get out there
and I'm gonna be able to meet some

66
00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:24.040
astronauts. I'm gonna be able to
see the rover, the next Mars rover.

67
00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:29.639
I'm gonna get to wear a NASA's
spacesuit, like I don't take a

68
00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:35.399
whole suit, but like their jumpsuits. And yeah, and I'm gonna get

69
00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:40.360
to interview some astronauts and stuff,
so people can look forward to that.

70
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.680
If you go to my Facebook or
my Twitter, this is going to be

71
00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.639
December second and third. I'll be
tweeting pictures because you know, that's part

72
00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.360
of what they want us to do, which I'm cool with. So I'll

73
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:56.720
be tweeting pictures of everything that I'll
be doing. And then there'll be a

74
00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.240
force coming article in the Huffington Post, and if I can get an astronaut

75
00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:04.680
to talk about UFOSH, then I'll
do a story and open minds and hopefully

76
00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:11.079
I will because of course there's this
Scott Kelly picture and some other things in

77
00:07:11.079 --> 00:07:15.319
fact that we'll talk about that in
the news a little bit and where I'm

78
00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.839
insanely jealous. That is so awesome. Yeah, it's I am really excited

79
00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:24.000
because I didn't go to go to
the last one. I was busy where

80
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:29.920
they did something similar at for the
launch of the Martian and Ridley Scott was

81
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.519
there and I was so looking forward
to the launch of the Martian. I

82
00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:39.120
was really excited about the news.
I'm of course a Ridley Scott fan,

83
00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:45.720
and I didn't get to uh to
do that one unfortunately, so I'm excited

84
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:47.920
to do this one. I we'll
also get to watch a rocket launch,

85
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.279
so this is going to be wow
cool. So I'll be posting some stuff

86
00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:55.800
about that. Yeah, neat,
huh, that is great. Wow.

87
00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:59.839
So who's the guest today? Yeah, that's that's a good idea to mention

88
00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:05.160
the guests that you can tell you're
a professional at these UFO podcasts. My

89
00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:11.720
guess is Lee Spiegel all again.
Yeah, he's a guest I've had the

90
00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:18.160
most. But the reason I've got
Lee on this time is because Lee was

91
00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:24.800
able to work with his friend Jacques
Valet, who doesn't do UFO conferences like

92
00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:30.040
ever, and so he was able
to get Jacques Vallet to come speak at

93
00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.399
the UFO Congress. So in fact, it's going to be kind of like

94
00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:39.000
the Bob Blazar thing where Saturday night
Lee will be doing a Q and a

95
00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:46.440
conversation on the stage with Jacques Valet. And so this is extremely exciting.

96
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:50.840
That's great news for February. Yeah, really cool. And for people who

97
00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.720
don't know, because I don't know
if you've ran across this, but there

98
00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:56.840
are some people who don't know who
Jacquevallet is. Well, you know,

99
00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:05.519
he's been at it so along and
not in the limelight a lot, but

100
00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.240
people that have been around or look
into the subject, No, he's been.

101
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.600
You know, he's come up with
some great thoughts and ideas and books,

102
00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.799
many great books over the years,
all the way back to the late

103
00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.639
sixties, I believe, right.
Yeah, So this is what's exciting about

104
00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.840
Jacques. Jacques was the protogat jay
I like to put it. I think

105
00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:31.759
of oh j Allen Heinich. So
Heinich, of course was an astronomer at

106
00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:37.759
several universities, but most prominent or
most well known for working at Northwestern and

107
00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:43.039
it was there that he met Jacques. So Heinik was a consultant for the

108
00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.639
US Air Force all the way from
like forty seven to sixty nine on UFOs

109
00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:54.720
and Jacques used to think that the
whole thing was I mean, Heinich used

110
00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:56.720
to think the whole thing was ridiculous. But as time went on, he

111
00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:01.440
saw these great cases and he saw
there really was something to this phenomena,

112
00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.039
and the rest of his life he
looked into it and tried to push for,

113
00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:09.360
you know, serious study of the
UFO phenomena. I think you know

114
00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.679
a lot of people credit him as
that kind of like the grandfather of of

115
00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:18.840
ufology. He started modern UFO research. Well, and you know you interviewed

116
00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:24.879
Mark Rodiger, who is the current
president of KUFOS, which Heinich started the

117
00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:31.279
Center for UFO Studies. So when
we've talked a lot about Mark lately that

118
00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:37.200
Heinich started, Well, Valet was
a student of Heinix at Northwestern, an

119
00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:43.600
astronomer astronomy student, and they partnered
up and they wrote some books together.

120
00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:52.279
Valet took this on himself. What
I love about Valet is that he tackles

121
00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:58.759
the phenomena in a real big picture
sense. He doesn't filter, He doesn't

122
00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:03.320
look at UFOs and look at a
phenomena of extraterrestrials coming to Earth. He

123
00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:09.759
looks at mysterious phenomena overall, trying
to get the big picture, taking in

124
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:16.639
all of the data and demonstrating that
there's so much strangeness going on we don't

125
00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.919
know what the heck is going on. You know, he tries to push

126
00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.919
this idea that we don't know there's
aliens coming here or extraterrestrials coming here,

127
00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:31.679
and people get frustrated with that,
you know, him saying that. Now.

128
00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:33.159
When I interviewed him, I did
kind of pin him down, and

129
00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:37.679
he didn't want to go there because
he likes to push this idea, which

130
00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:39.279
I think is really important, that
there could be other things going on.

131
00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.799
But he did admit to me that, you know, he did believe that

132
00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.639
some of this, he said,
some of this he was pretty certain is

133
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:52.720
extraterrestrial in nature. So he does
believe that. People like to say,

134
00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.240
oh, he doesn't even believe in
aliens, but he does, at least

135
00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:01.840
he told me that. And I've
got it on. But yeah, and

136
00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:07.440
Vallet has written a lot of books
towards this. Pasport to Magonia is one

137
00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:15.679
of his really popular ones. He's
just got anatomy of a phenomena, dimensions,

138
00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.120
revelations, all kinds of great books. So he's been around for decades.

139
00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:24.879
In fact, in Close Encounters Truffo
is based on him. Well,

140
00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:26.440
Lee and I are going to talk
a lot more about him. But yeah,

141
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:31.639
just an extremely important guy. He
then became a computer scientist and a

142
00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:35.919
venture capitalist. He's done very well
for himself, so he doesn't need to

143
00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:43.519
rely on his book sales or eufology, so he doesn't really associate with the

144
00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:48.559
UFO field or at least you know, the conferences and stuff. But he

145
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:54.039
is good friends I found not only
with Lee, but with George Knab and

146
00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:05.600
with Doug Trumbull, who is of
course the famous and incredible special effects artists

147
00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.879
who worked on well with Speaking of
Ridley Scot, he worked on Blade Runner,

148
00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.720
he worked on Close Encounters, and
he's worked on a lot of two

149
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:20.279
thousand and one, the most important
stuff. And of course he's working with

150
00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:26.080
Mark D'Antonio Trumbull. Ye, so
and Mark talked about that, and we've

151
00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:30.919
interviewed you've probably interviewed Mark about euphotog
and their project just a few weeks ago.

152
00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.279
As a matter of fact, Yeah, so you were on the show

153
00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.639
actually, Oh yeah, yeah,
that's right. You were at his house

154
00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:41.600
and this bunker. So yeah,
so, very very excited about Valet,

155
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.879
and so Lee and I will talk
about that, and we were going to

156
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.000
talk some UFO news, but we
just didn't have time. We got so

157
00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.240
into valet and the other conference kind
of stuff. Oh, so that's why

158
00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.480
I'm here. You guys didn't get
a chance to talk about news. Well,

159
00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:00.639
you know, you and I talked
about the latest news, and so

160
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:05.000
I knew we'd have some news to
talk about, regardless of whether or I

161
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:11.639
Lee and I got into some news. So oh, and speaking of,

162
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:13.919
let's go ahead and talk some news. And I'm gonna go first, if

163
00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.919
you don't mind, sure, go
ahead. And uh, the Scott Kelly

164
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.639
thing, I didn't even write a
story on it, because this is what's

165
00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.320
kind of funny. And I know
Lee is writing a story on it.

166
00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.720
But you know, there are these
people and I won't mention names, who

167
00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:37.240
are looking at stuff on Mars and
every picture from NASA and every type of

168
00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.919
little thing. They can't understand what
it is. They're claiming it's a UFO

169
00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.600
and an alien spaceship. And I
wouldn't mind if they're like, Hey,

170
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.399
this is weird. What do you
guys think? I think that's valid.

171
00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.720
I think that's great when people do
that, because then we can all talk

172
00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:54.919
it over and sometimes we can't figure
it out, but lots of times someone

173
00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:01.000
can figure it out, especially people
like Mark who are very u learned in

174
00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.039
this area and know a lot about
optics and everything because they work with that

175
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.679
sort of thing every day. But
you know, it's frustrating when people do

176
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.559
that, and so sky Kelly is
always taking he's an astronaut up on the

177
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:18.240
ISS. He's going to be the
guy who, when he's done, will

178
00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.720
have been in space the longest out
of any human. And he's taken lots

179
00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:28.799
of amazing pictures on a regular basis. And one of them he posted,

180
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.919
just like several you know, there's
a there's a light, a lit up

181
00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:35.960
area in the upper right hand corner. And so of course you know these

182
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.240
people who do this said, look
he took a picture of a UFO and

183
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:45.240
look there's a big alien spacecraft because
aliens are watching him, and blah blah

184
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:50.440
blah. But I think in our
in our open Minds group, one of

185
00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:56.720
the admins, Angelo Marc, has
put in some interesting comments but was able

186
00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.480
to show it actually in many of
the other pictures, you could see in

187
00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:06.440
the same frame that Scott Kelly takes
this picture, there's part of the ISS

188
00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.879
that you can see on the top
of the frame. As Mark pointed out,

189
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.039
in this particular picture, they were
on the dark side, so there

190
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:18.200
was they were all completely dark,
so you can't see any that part of

191
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.639
the ISS, but you do see
a light, and so he was able

192
00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:27.000
to show it looks like that light
is from the ISS itself, just a

193
00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:33.279
different part of it, not an
alien spacecraft. It's actually from the ISS

194
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:40.159
itself. Yeah so yeah, so
and if you see it, you know,

195
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.440
Angelo did a good job where you
took other pictures where you can't see

196
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.039
it, where they're on the light
side, where they're lit up by the

197
00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:49.720
sun, and that is part of
the ISS is right there. Wow.

198
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:56.159
So so, but a lot of
media is picking this up because of course

199
00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.759
the UK picks up every one of
these stories, some of those tabloid type

200
00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.680
papers that we talk about often,
and now some American media has picked it

201
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:08.519
up. And I know Lee's gonna
write a story kind of clearing all this

202
00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.839
up. I'm not even gonna.
I typically just don't waste my time on

203
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:18.079
those unless you know something interesting comes
of them. It's too bad something like

204
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:22.400
that, you know, gets carried
away right off the bat and without people

205
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.279
really looking into it. Because you
know, you're right, why the only

206
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:32.480
reason to write an article now is
to set it straight because the UK is

207
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:38.200
writing a lot of articles and kind
of not really kind of making a lot

208
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.720
of assumptions. I guess I should
say it that way. Yeah, And

209
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:47.640
I you know, we could spend
time just setting it straight, but I

210
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:55.079
don't want to be, you know, spending all my time debunking, you

211
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.720
know, this crappy stuff that they're
they're doing, where there's there's really good

212
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:08.799
stuff to pursue right now. So
yeah, so that's so unfortunately there's a

213
00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:14.400
lot of bad quality kind of stuff
getting out there. But you know,

214
00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:17.119
if you want to see some of
this stuff and debate it or talk about

215
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:22.079
it, the Open minds UFO group
on Facebook is made for discussion and it's

216
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.720
growing pretty quickly and there's lots of
great people in there. Mark is actually

217
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:29.880
one of the admins, so he's
in there commenting a lot as well,

218
00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:32.920
and so it's a lot of fun
and it's a lot of you know,

219
00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:37.079
there's someone who submitted there's been a
few people who submitted pictures. People have

220
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.920
looked at him and then figured out
what they are. There's some where people

221
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.279
haven't figured out what they are.
But I really encourage people to do that

222
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:47.799
and really think people even if we
do figure out what it is, it's

223
00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:52.440
great to post it in there,
and people should not feel badly at all

224
00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:56.559
for posting something that turns out to
be a reflection or something, because we

225
00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.920
all do it and that's what it's. You know, we need to continue

226
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.960
to do, is to figure these
things out because there may be a time

227
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:10.480
where you'll post something that is not
so easily explained. That's right, Yeah,

228
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:15.640
that's that's good and it is growing. I noticed that, and it

229
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.240
is a good place for people to
because there's a lot of really talented eyes

230
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.680
looking at that stuff. Yeah,
some people who have been doing that for

231
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:27.359
a while. So cool. So
your turn. Oh, okay, I

232
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:33.880
want to talk about I love when
there's police officers involved in the UFOs to

233
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.960
me, and I know, you
know, I've had arguments with the skeptics

234
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.680
to say, well, they're not
any more of an observer than anyone else.

235
00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.279
In my opinion, I think they
are a little better. And I

236
00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:51.960
also think that they're less inclined to
talk about a UFO than the average Joe

237
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.160
would because you know, it could
be a little bit threatening to their career

238
00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:03.359
possibly. But anyway, so what
happened this is on November third, and

239
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:11.920
there were there were k nine officers
witnessing. There were green lights sort of

240
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:18.359
like a lime, but sort of
a bright lime green lights that they saw

241
00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:22.960
floating across the sky in Ohio.
And then they noticed that there were two

242
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:30.160
equilateral triangles, and I think they
said there was about they believed there was

243
00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:36.119
about seven objects because a lower orb
like followed the path of the triangles and

244
00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:41.359
the other ones and a great case. Now these these guys were both there

245
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.839
was more than two. I believe
they were you know, veterans, and

246
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:53.000
they had some pretty extensive law enforcement
training and careers. So anyway, I

247
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:59.640
think it's a good sighting. And
it is near the Youngstown Warren Regional Airport

248
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.200
and there is a lot going on
because of that. But to see solid

249
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:11.039
green lights instead of you know,
the regular navigation lights on an aircraft,

250
00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.920
Now this could be drones possibly,
but they wouldn't be flying legally, I

251
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:22.160
believe. So that's what I got. Yeah, And I agree with you

252
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.359
that, you know, police do
have some training too an observation, and

253
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:33.240
so that makes them trained, so
they are a better observer than the average

254
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:37.240
person. So I agree with you. I really like them, and like

255
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.480
like you said, they're putting their
they're putting their reputation on the line more

256
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:48.920
so than others. And you know, it's almost like any male dominated fraternity

257
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:55.680
or like I know you when you
talk to firemen or other groups, they

258
00:21:55.720 --> 00:22:00.920
get a little bit more teasing than
others when something happens, and so they

259
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:07.759
have to face maybe even a little
more ridicule than the rest of us.

260
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:14.359
So so they want to be,
you know, really certain when they're talking

261
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:19.319
about stuff like this. So I
think they are great witnesses. Here's another

262
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:25.400
story that I think is really interesting. I love these stories. I like

263
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:32.319
ORB stories. So of course there's
orb photography that is often you know,

264
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:38.200
dust particles in the air caught by
the flash of a camera or other types

265
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:45.119
of things like this. Because even
in the IR and infrared, the infrared,

266
00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:51.960
that kind of source infrared light source
that isn't visible light, but it

267
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.319
is still a type of light can
cause the same effect. But there are

268
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:03.519
people who see a credible witness is
orbs floating around like in forests or the

269
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:08.720
brown mountain lights. I've even seen
a couple of really good ORB videos,

270
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:14.920
and unfortunately these aren't ones that are
online, but I've seen some in that

271
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:21.920
you know, years of investigation,
some really good or videos that have been

272
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.920
examined by many people and could not
be explained. And we talked about the

273
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:33.200
Hesdelen lights, you know with the
UFO Data Group had investigated those, So

274
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.319
that's really interesting. You and I, you know I talked to with Mark

275
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.440
Roding, are also about those.
But this is in Oregon where a witness

276
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:48.079
described these lights moving across the property
and the witness this was in November of

277
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:56.920
twenty fifteen, that they saw a
large yellow orange fireball with a large tail

278
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:07.039
falling. It was moving slow and
it lit up this person's property and they

279
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.400
made some pictures of what this thing
was like, kind of cruising across their

280
00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:21.880
property below tree level. So the
pictures are really neat, but there are

281
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:27.519
so many witnesses describing this sort of
thing that it fascinates me because how amazing

282
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:30.519
would it be to be in the
forest and to see this ball of light

283
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:37.480
kind of come floating by. I
think some people would be very scared and

284
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:41.039
some would be I don't know where
i'd be. You know, it's kind

285
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:45.160
of funny. You don't know how
you're going to react until something happens.

286
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.680
Yeah, yeah, but I know
my past reaction, you know, to

287
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:56.640
the one sighting that I had was
definitely one of like what the heck?

288
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:00.960
So yeah, so that's a really
strange one. And I love these Marley

289
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.599
lights is another place I just think
this is fascinating, probably because I camp

290
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.039
and stuff too, and so it's
one of the things I think about.

291
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:12.559
But you know, now, rarely
does stuff scare me, at least as

292
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:18.119
far as paranormal phenomena. It doesn't
scare me anymore because you know, when

293
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:22.240
you're out investigating it and you want
it to happen so badly. At first,

294
00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:25.519
you're afraid because you're thinking, oh
what if You're thinking of all the

295
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.519
stories, what if it happens?
Oh my gosh, what am I gonna

296
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:33.440
do? But as time goes on
and you're trying to experience the phenomena and

297
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:37.319
it doesn't happen, and you start
to do all of these things to try

298
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:42.359
to make it happen and it doesn't, then you know, you lose your

299
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:47.720
fear over time. So even with
ghosts and stuff, because I've spent a

300
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:51.359
lot of time even ghost setting,
if I saw something, I would move

301
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.960
towards it and I would investigate it. What scares me? Are you know,

302
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.839
more of mundane things or at least
animal or humans are more scary than

303
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:07.799
anything. But but paranormal phenomena I
would move close to and it may kill

304
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.480
me. That maybe I may approach
an orb and touch it and disintegrate and

305
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:17.680
you may go into another dimension.
Yeah, and it'll send me a postcard.

306
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:22.680
Yeah I will if I can.
I'll do my best. It may

307
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:29.160
be an orb, don't touch it, just I'll just try to make it

308
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:40.200
scroll. Hello Martin. That a
reticular is awesome. So yeah, So

309
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:44.359
there's some news for the week.
Not a lot of other big news.

310
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:48.400
Some more sightings from Roger marsh on
the site. And of course I've been

311
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:53.039
really working on the conference and really
excited about that. So I posted the

312
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:59.680
thing about Jacques Valet and sent an
email out I'm really excited. I had

313
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:03.400
on Luigi, Vinda Telli and Emily
Trim well Luigi on my show and there

314
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.519
was a special guest in the room, Emily Trim. Emily Trim is actually

315
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:14.039
a witness to the Ruwa Encounter aerial
school encounter. For people who don't know,

316
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.920
this was a thing where all these
school children saw Ufo land in the

317
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.519
school and an alien come out and
you know they're freaking out. And at

318
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.359
first the adults were like ignoring the
kids, and then you know they found

319
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.200
out, Wow, this, You
know, these kids really experienced something.

320
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.000
And then people went and interviewed them. But we have one of those witnesses,

321
00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:40.599
and she's going to talk about her
incredible experience and the art inspired by

322
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:45.240
the messages she received. Wow.
Yeah, to me, that's one of

323
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.359
my favorite cases. It's a lot
of people's favorite cases. And so that's

324
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:55.720
why I'm so excited to have her
and in fact, I've got to talk

325
00:27:55.759 --> 00:28:00.960
to her. But and she's very
timid, so that's why she had doesn't

326
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.799
really do this. But her friend
Luigi is not timid. He's a really

327
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:10.680
outgoing guy. He's a UFO researcher
and stuff in Canada, really cool guy,

328
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:15.079
and so he's gonna help her along
to do this and I think it's

329
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.359
going to be fascinating. Well,
how's she going to be able to speak?

330
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:22.200
Is she gonna have trouble with that? I think she will a bit,

331
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.359
But you know they're gonna work together. And luckily they kind of had

332
00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.480
a trial run they did this,
and we got to meet them in like

333
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:36.680
March, they came to the office
and then partially because my boss got a

334
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:41.880
drone and Luigi sells and operates drones, until he came to help us out

335
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:47.920
and show us how to use it
and stuff, and she came with and

336
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.559
then and she opened up after a
little bit after you know, getting to

337
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:56.599
know us, because it's hard to
tell people about aliens and stuff. You

338
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.599
know. Obviously she doesn't like to
talk to people about it because she doesn't

339
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:04.000
know how they're going to react.
But of course we were very open to

340
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.200
hearing what she had to say,
and it was really cool. But Luigi's

341
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:12.920
going to help her. And she
did do a talk after that in Canada,

342
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:18.440
some kind of event they had out
there, and so that went well,

343
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.680
I guess, and she felt comfortable. And so they're gonna do it

344
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.839
on stage for us at the Congress. But what's really cool, and I

345
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.160
think what will help is she's going
to have a vendor table where she's going

346
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:34.720
to be showing her art the entire
week at the Congress, and so she'll

347
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:40.000
get to interact with people, and
I know, knowing our crowd, people

348
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.359
are going to be really nice and
terribly interested and fascinated by her work,

349
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.920
so I'm sure that'll really help her
feel more comfortable. Can you see that

350
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.759
online anywhere? Does she have a
website? No, you can't. Actually,

351
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.720
she doesn't have a website yet.
She does have a Facebook page for

352
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.960
Emily Trim. I'm not sure if
it's even open to the public. She

353
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:06.599
does post some stuff there, but
I know, I think in the picture

354
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:10.640
I posted, there's a little bit
of her artwork. And here's what I'll

355
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:15.079
do actually today, because I took
a picture of her sitting right where I

356
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:22.240
am right now with her artwork spread
out, and I'll post that picture on

357
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:29.960
her speaker page on the Congress site
because I've been thinking of doing that anyway,

358
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:33.720
so people can see a little bit
of her artwork. Great. Yeah,

359
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:38.039
so it's really cool stuff. So
and then i'll, uh, I'll

360
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.440
maybe text you a picture or two, Martin, And for the rest of

361
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:45.680
you, you're just gonna have to
come to the Congress. Sorry, there

362
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:51.240
you go. Yep, that's just
the way it goes. Yeah, but

363
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:55.680
we would love to see everybody,
so it'll be awesome. So that's what's

364
00:30:55.720 --> 00:31:00.160
going on. Anything else that you
wanted to talk about, bud Oh,

365
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.680
I think we did. We did
another kind of a long one today.

366
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.279
Yeah, I know, and it's
a long one with Lis. So people

367
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.880
like the longer shows. They're always, you know, begging for long shows,

368
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.200
so they're getting one today. Good. All right, I look forward

369
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.440
to hearing him. Yeah. And
because of the holiday this week, we

370
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:23.599
won't have a UFO report on YouTube
this week, so people will be able

371
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:32.640
to enjoy a long UFO or along
Open Minds Radio. And you know what's

372
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:33.880
great, people, And this is
what I think people should do. I

373
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.920
think this is what Martin's going to
do, is share this podcast with your

374
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.480
family, you know, when you
all gather at Thanksgiving and sit down for

375
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:48.039
dinner, you know, pop in
the podcast and play it while you're having

376
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:52.920
old tube radios. Yeah, so
while you're having Thanksgiving dinner, you know,

377
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:57.160
treat your family to some UFO news
and information. We'd love to be

378
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:01.200
there at the table with you Thanksgiving, right, Martin, that's right,

379
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:06.839
cozy up with us. Yeah,
Hi, Grandma, don't eat that too

380
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.920
much pumpkin pie, Grandma, save
me some stuff and yeah, all right,

381
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.559
okay, cool, Well you have
a great holiday yourself, Marty,

382
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:20.279
same here, all right, alijndro
all right, thank you. You said

383
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.440
that very well. All right,
all right, well let's hear what that

384
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:29.559
goofy Lee Spiegel guy has to say. I am so happy to be back

385
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:34.079
here with Lee Spiegel. Welcome back
to the show. Lee. Well,

386
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.119
thank you Alehanjo. It seems like
forever since we did this, Yeah,

387
00:32:37.279 --> 00:32:42.039
doesn't it. You know what's funny, I have your page up with your

388
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.599
stories, so you know, we
can talk about some of them in a

389
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.599
minute, but of course we have
a little bit more exciting stuff to talk

390
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:53.200
about first, not that your stories
aren't exciting, but it's funny to see

391
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:58.359
these. I mean, it looks
like there are versions of your stories in

392
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:04.160
Korean and and this looks like,
I don't know what this is French.

393
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.880
Maybe I don't know who decided to
do that. And it's not just for

394
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:13.599
my stories. I think it's partially
a way of letting people who go to

395
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:17.559
each writer has their own a story
section. Maybe it's a way of showing

396
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:22.599
people that we are international, and
so now we're going to prove it,

397
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:27.960
you know, by letting you see
an entire story in you know, in

398
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:31.119
Indian or you know, Indo,
Chinese or Korean. And I mean that's

399
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:35.000
fine. It's kind of a hoot
for me to see what it actually looks

400
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.440
like in another language. I kind
of like that, Yeah, that's cool.

401
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.119
I mean, because I'm looking.
I decided to look at my page

402
00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:45.759
and they haven't translated mine into any
other language. Well, your stuff really

403
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.559
belongs in English. I think,
yeah, it's it's But that is really

404
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:53.119
awesome, I think, I,
you know, because it's one thing that

405
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:57.960
I really appreciate, and it kind
of is a good segue into one of

406
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:02.799
our big topics for today is the
international audience. So for instance, this

407
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:08.480
show and our website has quite a
large international audience. We have a lot

408
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:16.280
of Australians and British people listening to
us, maybe some French people, who,

409
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:22.760
of course we hope are safe and
are doing okay over there, but

410
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:27.320
as well as all the people in
all of the unfortunately areas where there's problems

411
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:30.599
going on, beyroot, where was
the other? Oh the boco a ram,

412
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:35.840
oh my gosh. And Africa hopefully
those people we have some Africa needs

413
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:39.599
actually to talk about too. But
it's really cool to have this international audience.

414
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:42.679
And in fact, this is what's
funny, because this is what we're

415
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:47.920
going to talk about is Jacques Valets, who's French? And when I posted

416
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:54.320
earlier this week and that Jacquova or
earlier today or earlier in the week,

417
00:34:54.360 --> 00:35:00.840
I should say that Jacques Valet was
going to be speaking at the UFO Congress,

418
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.679
the first people, oh, no, this is what I did.

419
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:07.599
I'm sorry. Oh, and you
played along with this. I posted just

420
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:12.880
to tease people and to kind of
get them ready to chum the waters,

421
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.679
I suppose. I posted in our
Open Mind UFO news group, which if

422
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:23.000
you haven't joined on Facebook you should
listeners out there. I posted, Hey,

423
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:27.639
I'm just curious to hear what you
guys think about Jacques Ballet and the

424
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:31.960
first people to respond were some French
people. Yes, so I wonder if

425
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:38.599
the French are more aware of Jacques
and I guess you know, we'll start

426
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:45.079
off with because there are some French
news relating to Jacques that happened recently,

427
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:49.800
and I know you're well aware of
this, but we'll start off with you're

428
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:52.039
the reason we got Jacques Ballet to
come to the congress. Thank you so

429
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:54.760
much. And how did that happen? Well, you know, you and

430
00:35:54.800 --> 00:36:00.559
I were talking a while ago about
what could I do if you were going

431
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:05.039
to invite me back to the Congress. What could I do that would be

432
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.880
different from just me standing on stage
and doing a lecture or a presentation.

433
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:16.360
Something that could involve a newsmaker of
some sort who doesn't normally go to UFO

434
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:24.559
events for a variety of reasons,
and who has been portrayed, Who was

435
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:30.519
portrayed in the movie Close Encounters of
the Third Kind. He was portrayed by

436
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:37.639
the very famous director and actor Francois
Truffaux. And I think that people whenever

437
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.360
I talk to people about that movie, when I say did you ever see

438
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:45.079
Close Encounters? And when I say
do you remember a character of a French

439
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:52.519
scientist who was like the focus of
the military and the government research into extraterrestrials,

440
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:55.079
people will say, oh, yeah, yeah, I really liked that

441
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.199
character. And I say, well, you know, the character name to

442
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:08.039
Claude Lacombe was actually modeled after Jacques
Fallet. And when I first met Jacques,

443
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:15.519
which was just a few months after
Close Encounters came out, Close Encounters

444
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:20.199
was the big holiday movie for nineteen
seventy seven, and I started working and

445
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:24.880
putting my United Nations presentation together in
early seventy eight, and so I met

446
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:30.239
Jacques for the first time while Close
Encounters was still kind of lingering in the

447
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:36.679
movie theaters and lingering in the consciousness
of the public, and so for me

448
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:42.559
it was it was a huge thrill
to finally meet him. And as people

449
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.719
will discover when they go to the
Congress, if they have a chance to

450
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:52.280
actually talk with him, it's like
talking to the character in the movie.

451
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:57.079
You know. He sounds like that
character. He says the same kinds of

452
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.079
things like that character. He's very
soft spoken and when he talks, you

453
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:06.320
have to pay attention to him,
you know, because he has so many

454
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:14.519
really interesting, fascinating things to talk
about in the whole UFO community that people

455
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:20.280
just don't get involved with or hear
about. And he's always been consistent in

456
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:23.800
that vein. He may have changed
his mind through the years of what he

457
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:29.639
thinks might be going on with UFOs
or the intelligence behind UFOs, but his

458
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:36.159
approach and how he presents it,
it's amazing. People just really will stop

459
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:39.320
and listen to what he has to
say. I've seen him. I've seen

460
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:45.880
videos of Jacqua on stage at like
TED conferences where he's not talking about UFOs

461
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:50.920
at all, but he's talking about
other abstract things in science that he's involved

462
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:55.639
with, and you just can't help
but listen to what he's saying. And

463
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:01.000
that takes a lot of charisma to
have that effect on people. So when

464
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:06.239
you and I were talking about what
I could possibly do, and I started

465
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:10.519
coming up with a wish list of
who I might want to be on a

466
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:17.119
stage with at the Congress talking one
on one, Jacques was like right right

467
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:22.199
at the top of the list because
he and I had not really been together

468
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:28.159
since he was one of my main
speakers at the UN presentation that I did

469
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.960
it'll be thirty eight years ago in
twenty sixteen. So I spoke with him

470
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:45.599
several weeks ago because he contacted me
his book Wonders in the Sky that he's

471
00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:52.800
the co author of with Chris Auback
from France. It's an amazing book,

472
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.079
and I know that you feel the
same way about this, where it takes

473
00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:02.719
the whole idea of UFOs where people
think modern UFO era means the nineteen forties

474
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:09.199
is where it all started, but
that's blatantly untrue. It's completely untrue,

475
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:17.239
and it hit Their book starts just
before the Industrial Revolution and goes backward in

476
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:27.199
time, and that's amazing because they've
come up with incredible scientific and non scientific

477
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:37.159
studies and sightings and reports going back
thousands of years into antiquity that all resemble

478
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:43.199
things that people are reporting now,
which means it's never changed the kinds of

479
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:46.519
things that people have reported. And
we can get more into that later.

480
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:52.920
But just knowing that the new book
was coming out again, he's updating the

481
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:58.880
book, and he asked me if
I might consider writing an update story to

482
00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:00.840
help promote his book. And I
said yes, Jaka, I think that's

483
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.800
excellent. I love your book.
And so while I had him, while

484
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.880
I had his attention, I said, so, Jacques, let me ask

485
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.400
you something. Would you have any
interest in appearing with me on a stage

486
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:20.000
in February at the International UFO Congress. And I get quiet because I was

487
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:22.519
expecting him to say no, no, I don't do things like that.

488
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:30.400
But he said yes, and I
almost fell out of my chair. He

489
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:37.639
said yes, I was right that
he doesn't do UFO conferences, and he

490
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:42.039
wanted to do this. He thought
that the idea was intriguing to not have

491
00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:45.320
to do a presentation, but to
sit there in a couple of nice chairs

492
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:50.639
and just have a discussion for an
hour or so and just talk about things

493
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:57.039
that people really want to hear about
about UFOs and what might really be going

494
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.280
on. And he said he would
love to do that with me, and

495
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:06.199
so I think I immediately contacted you
and said what do you think about Jacques

496
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:08.639
Vallet? And then after you got
off the floor because when you fell out

497
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:16.440
of your chair, and then we've
been piecing it together now and today you

498
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:21.519
made the announcement. Well, and
I don't think that you even knew.

499
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:25.199
I don't remember if you knew.
If I don't think you did that.

500
00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:28.480
You know, we've been trying to
get him for years. So let no,

501
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:30.880
I didn't know you You told me
that, and I was really amazed

502
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:35.880
to hear that, because the only
interview I've gotten with him after trying for

503
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.519
years, even when I was with
move On way back when we had tried

504
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:43.079
to get him, because at least
for me and a lot of euthologists,

505
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:49.599
I mean, Jacquvalle is the eupologist
upologist. You know, the first thing

506
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:54.639
that comes to mind with living icons
in this field, one of the first

507
00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:59.719
is Jacques Vallet. And so but
I've never been able to get him.

508
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:05.519
You know you At first, my
first thought when you mentioned his name is

509
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:07.800
that, yeah, right, it's
not gonna happen. But I think that

510
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:10.519
was you hadn't even told me you
were going to try, And then you're

511
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.599
like, what do you think of
this? And it's like, are you

512
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:17.000
kidding? That would be amazing?
So yeah, so exciting because we've tried

513
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:22.320
for so long and he's such a
neat guy, and Wonders in the Sky

514
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:27.039
is so great. I mean,
oh yeah, it's a great book.

515
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:30.159
And I was so excited when it
came out because he hadn't done anything for

516
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:34.119
a long time in this field.
And this is my question to you too,

517
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.400
as far as you know, having
known him for so long, has

518
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:42.119
he ever spoken at a UFO conference? I don't know. You know,

519
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:49.199
he will do events like a TED
event, or he'll go someplace where it'll

520
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:55.559
be he'll be invited as one of
many scientists. He likes being with scientists.

521
00:43:55.599 --> 00:44:01.679
He likes talking with them because he
doesn't he doesn't like to be around

522
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:09.320
situations where there could be a fringe
element, and there's always that possibility at

523
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:16.159
so many conferences, and he likes
to shy away from that and and he

524
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:22.199
knows that there are people out there
who don't necessarily agree with his vision of

525
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:28.719
UFOs or where they might come from
and what they might mean to Earthlings,

526
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:36.800
and he sometimes is concerned about how
people might react to him, so he

527
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:44.280
does shy away from stuff that's truly
not scientific. I think if he knows

528
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.840
that there's going to be a science
aspect to it, he's very interested in

529
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:52.599
it. I mean, I know, last year, Jacques and doctor Richard

530
00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:59.119
Haynes, a former NASA scientists,
they were the only two American scientists who

531
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:07.000
were invited to a big conference science
conference in Paris, uh and they were

532
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:15.360
they were surprised that a lot of
mainstream media just ignored it completely. And

533
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:19.440
and this is this is the kind
of thing that bothers Jacques a lot,

534
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:24.559
because he doesn't understand how science can
ignore this well. And but this was

535
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.920
what I was wondering about that because
of course I would have written about the

536
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:32.199
French thing. And there were a
lot of us, you know now we're

537
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:37.000
online, you know, communicating and
everything, trying to get information about that

538
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:42.679
meeting, but they were very tight
lipped. They aren't releasing any videos or

539
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:46.719
any information. Uh So none of
us could get anything. Uh. I

540
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:51.320
think they finally did go to you. I think they give you some stuff,

541
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:53.039
But I mean, did they go
to the press to try to get

542
00:45:53.079 --> 00:45:57.119
them to cover it? No?
And that that's that's part of the point.

543
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:00.119
I don't believe that the media was
even invited to it. So so

544
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:04.800
it's like, you can't you can't
have it both ways. If you're a

545
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:09.800
scientist, if you want the media
to cover what you do in an unbiased

546
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:15.719
way, then then invite them.
Let them come to these things and to

547
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:21.000
talk about what it's all about.
Earlier this year, there was a there

548
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.280
was a big I think it was
a one day was it a one day

549
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:29.639
or maybe a two day event in
Washington, and I believe it was at

550
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:35.400
the National Archives, And it was
a whole thing about bringing scientists and researchers

551
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:40.920
together to talk about how close are
we as a species to having first contact

552
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:46.360
with another intelligence? And I think
Seth Shostak of the Seti Institute, I

553
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:50.480
think he was the first speaker to
get up and talk about it. And

554
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:57.880
as you and I know, a
lot of scientists, very conservative scientists who

555
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:05.719
would prefer not to eat even mention
the word UFOs. Part of this man.

556
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:08.599
A very big part of this from
people I've talked with is they won't

557
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:15.760
They won't do that. They won't
acknowledge even the slightest possibility that there are

558
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:23.840
some UFO aspects that should be scientifically
investigated. And the reason why they won't

559
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:30.159
talk about it, the reason why
airline pilots won't talk about the objects that

560
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:35.760
often come buzzing around their aircraft that
they can't explain, is because they all

561
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.280
know that if they start to talk, it can be a career killer.

562
00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:44.400
And we've heard this over and over
again, you know. And and it's

563
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:49.639
been like that for a long time, and and and there have been pilots

564
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.880
who were basically said, if you
go to the press and talk about this,

565
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.280
it would be very very bad for
our company and therefore very bad for

566
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.119
your future here. You know,
how do you deal with that? If

567
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:04.679
you've had an experience, if you've
seen something you can't explain, and you

568
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:08.599
want to talk about it, but
you realize you can't, you know,

569
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:16.559
it's a tough decision. Years ago, the military put out a dictate I

570
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:23.280
think it was called Janet Janet JA
NFP Joint Army Navy Air publication, and

571
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:30.840
this was an official rule and regulation. It was a law that said anybody

572
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:37.559
in the military who talks about or
releases any classified info about UFOs. I

573
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:40.400
forget what the fine was, but
it was like five years in prison and

574
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:45.280
a ten thousand dollars fine. It's
like whoa, well, who's going to

575
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.519
talk under those circumstances you had,
So you pretty much answered the question.

576
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.920
You didn't think he's You're not sure
if he spoke with out or UFO things,

577
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:57.559
but he did do this scientific thing. I'm going to guess, and

578
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:01.760
we could certainly ask Jacques and private, Yeah, if he has talked at

579
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:07.159
UFO conferences, it's been in the
distant past. I would suspect, yeah,

580
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:09.719
for sure, because I mean,
you and I keep up on what

581
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:15.000
he does. Mentioned the Ted talk, the other exciting thing that he did

582
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:16.880
not too long ago, and I
think this is really cool and this is

583
00:49:16.920 --> 00:49:20.519
a difference, and you know,
this is what it made me think of.

584
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:22.360
This is what I was going to
ask you, is that when you

585
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:28.159
referred how you know, talking about
UFOs could be a career killer. Jacques

586
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:32.440
Valet was essentially when he went to
Northwestern, he was kind of a protege

587
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.760
of j Allen Heinik, who was
an ronnomer there who consulted for the Air

588
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:43.480
Force. So so Jacques has always
been attached to the UFO thing, but

589
00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:49.599
he's a very successful person, so
luckily it hasn't hampered him. It doesn't

590
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:53.079
seem maybe that's something you can ask
him. But one of the other appearances

591
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:59.719
he did, which is I think
extraordinary, is this huge, very expensive,

592
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:05.400
an elaborate business meeting in Saudi Arabia. Oh yes, here's ago where

593
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:10.679
he convinced them to do a track
of lectures about UFOs and aliens, which

594
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:15.039
had like what Nick Pope, Stan
Friedman, and then I think doctor mitchill

595
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:19.119
Okaku, Mitchiakaku, and the only
other person there was I think someone who

596
00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:27.840
was associated with the Saudi Arabia organization. And each of those people had something

597
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:35.039
like eight minutes or ten minutes,
and they actually they released each of the

598
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.480
of the little speeches by these people
in high resolution and you can go on

599
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:43.639
YouTube and you can see them all. And it was done very well.

600
00:50:43.639 --> 00:50:46.800
And you're right. Jacques was there, and I think at one point he

601
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:52.159
said in his in his talk that
there was something about what Mitchieyokaku had said

602
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:59.280
that really impressed Jacques and influenced them. It's it's always good, I think

603
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:07.800
when you get important people like that, who who praise each other, and

604
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:13.159
and and you know, who recognize
and acknowledge that there are other people like

605
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:17.039
you, other scientists in this case, who do think that it's important to

606
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:23.239
keep an open mind. So and
I mean, I mean absolutely, And

607
00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:29.320
and you know, I didn't tell
you this before, but once you actually

608
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:32.639
announced that Jacques Vallet was going to
be at the UFO Congress, I got

609
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:38.559
an email from someone uh in Sydney, Australia. You mentioned Australia before.

610
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:45.280
In Sydney Australia. This person is
very well known in the in the UFO

611
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:50.199
community worldwide. And in fact,
he has a lot of people who really

612
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:57.679
don't like his opinions on UFOs.
And and he's been on stage before and

613
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:05.039
been in in all kinds of controversial
situations. And John Alexander and his wife

614
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:10.480
landed in Sydney, Australia today and
and he emailed me right after he saw

615
00:52:10.599 --> 00:52:15.639
your announcement and the first thing he
said to me was that's going to be

616
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:21.800
a big draw. So there you
go. Somebody, this Australian person said

617
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:29.079
that. No, No, John
Alexander went to Australia. Oh John Alexander,

618
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:32.320
Yes, always on our site commenting
and everything. Yeah, John Alexander

619
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:37.119
is great, he's there, he's
our our friend and yeah, although he

620
00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:40.639
is controversial, but see, that's
that's what's really interesting because he has a

621
00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:49.760
sam similar issue as Nick Pope or
Jacques Vallet. People get frustrated with Jacques

622
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:54.639
because he says and when I interviewed
him, he really pushed this this idea

623
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:58.960
of that, you know, we
don't know that these things are alien,

624
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:01.159
and he kept writing that over and
over again, which I think is a

625
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:07.239
valid and an excellent point. But
I did finally pin him down at the

626
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:09.760
end of night, and he was
reticent and I kind of had to pull

627
00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:14.760
it out of him. But do
you believe that some of this phenomena may

628
00:53:14.800 --> 00:53:17.760
be extraterrestul in nature? And he
went so far as to say, I

629
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:22.400
believe most likely, yes, that
some of this is probably, if not

630
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.840
definitely, extraterrestrial in nature. So
that was a pretty bold statement. But

631
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:30.679
you know, so there you go. It's not that he doesn't believe that,

632
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:32.800
or he's saying it's not true or
debunking or something like that. He's

633
00:53:32.920 --> 00:53:38.400
just looking for further answers and making
sure we're careful and not jumping to assumptions.

634
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:43.840
John Alexander, he says UFOs are
real. People don't listen. He

635
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:46.880
believed a lot of great cases just
because he doesn't think there's as big of

636
00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:51.880
a grand conspiracy as everyone else,
and he's more qualified to know. Quite

637
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:57.079
frankly, yes, doesn't mean he's
you know, debunking. Same with Nick

638
00:53:57.119 --> 00:54:01.360
Pope, who has kind of a
similar not exactly but similar perspective as John

639
00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:06.480
Alexander. And this is the one
that frustrates me the most. Sorry I'm

640
00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:10.360
getting on my soapbox now, but
I think you would would sympathize is that

641
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.880
Nick Pope has done more for this
field than many many other people. I

642
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:22.320
mean, he worked for the Defense
Ministry of Defense. He doesn't have to

643
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:25.199
talk about this topic. He could
totally shy away from it and probably would

644
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:30.639
help his career, but he never
backs down that this is a phenomena,

645
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.679
it's real. He learned that from
researching it in defense, kind of like

646
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:42.400
JL and Heine's perspective had changed once
he did some official investigation, and he

647
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:49.199
has enlightened these higher echelons of media
that he is able to access, kind

648
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:53.400
of like Leslie Kane or even you. He's enlightened so many people and shocked

649
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:59.559
so many people, but people are
still, oh, he worked for the

650
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:02.079
government. He's not sharing everything.
He's a bad guy. It's a kind

651
00:55:02.119 --> 00:55:06.800
of a frustrating thing that all of
these people, and well and even you

652
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:09.679
face at times because of course you're
working for mainstream media, which of course

653
00:55:09.679 --> 00:55:15.079
is the illuminati and the aliens are
all controlling and oh no you found out.

654
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:22.360
Well, you know, I love
Nick Pope on so many different levels

655
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:29.440
because and I may have told you
this, and I love Nick Pope's theories,

656
00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:35.920
his beliefs, and as you said, he worked at the Ministry of

657
00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:40.239
Defense office for a few years,
like the UFO desk was his desk,

658
00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:46.400
and a couple of years ago I
interviewed him. I've interviewed him many times,

659
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:53.519
and I said, so, tell
me about what the overall attitude was

660
00:55:53.639 --> 00:56:00.519
Nick in the Ministry of Defense when
you were there, because you've mentioned before

661
00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:07.559
that you basically were told to do
whatever you could to ridicule or debunk UFO

662
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:12.639
reports. And then he suddenly said, yeah, that was called spin and

663
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:16.559
dirty tricks And I said, what
what are you talking about? What does

664
00:56:16.599 --> 00:56:21.199
spin in dirty tricks mean? He
said, well, we were told from

665
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:24.519
high up that as UFO reports came
in, we were to do our very

666
00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:30.760
best to basically to debunk them and
make them go away. And I said,

667
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.000
but that's what the Air Force in
our country had Alan Heinek do for

668
00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:39.599
twenty years when he was working with
Project Blue Book. He was the token

669
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:45.159
scientist who the Air Force was sent
around to places and to make the UFO

670
00:56:45.320 --> 00:56:49.920
stories go away. So you're saying
you did the same thing in England and

671
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.079
they were called spin and dirty tricks. He said yeah. I said,

672
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:58.480
well didn't that bother you? Nick? What kind of a conscience did you

673
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:04.639
have to actually ridicule people? He
said, Look, the attitude was we

674
00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:10.639
couldn't tell the citizens of our country
that there was something operating in our skies

675
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:17.119
that we couldn't identify, we couldn't
catch, and we tried, and we

676
00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:22.400
couldn't force them down. We had
no control over them. We couldn't tell

677
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:28.199
the population that we didn't know how
to deal with this, and so the

678
00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:34.559
better route was to just make the
stories go away. Like wow, okay,

679
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:37.800
I guess I understand that, even
though I don't agree with it,

680
00:57:38.280 --> 00:57:44.119
but the fact that you're telling us
this now is very important. I think

681
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:51.480
that there is this attitude among many
countries that something is going on in the

682
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:53.920
skies around our planet. And we
all know this, all of us who've

683
00:57:53.920 --> 00:58:00.639
done serious research into UFOs over the
years. It's pretty obvious from early documents,

684
00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:07.199
early military documents, that the air
force, the air forces of this

685
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:12.639
country and other countries have been baffled
by these things that are flying around,

686
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.880
coming and going as they wish.
That's not a good thing to tell your

687
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:22.880
population. So where I'm heading with
that is that I think that people in

688
00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:30.639
a position of being able to impart
really good information, like Nick Pop,

689
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:37.400
like Jacques Vallet, like Colonel Chuck
Halt. He's another one who only in

690
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:42.280
the last year or two started coming
out publicly and saying very few folks in

691
00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:45.760
the public think that there's no longer
any real interest in UFOs. You've got

692
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:52.119
another thought coming, because there is
at least one major agency in the United

693
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:55.599
States that all the other agencies have
to report to, and they are seriously

694
00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:00.639
looking into UFO reports. Well,
you know, it's like, Wow,

695
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:05.920
this is a retired Air Force colonel
who who has been involved with some pretty

696
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:10.760
heavy duty UFO encounters, the Rendelstrom
Forrest, one being the Biggie in the

697
00:59:10.840 --> 00:59:17.679
nineteen eighties in England. And he's
that kind of guy who now says many

698
00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:23.119
military people won't talk about this because
it would be a career killer. He

699
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:28.679
loves to use that phrase, and
I think he's right. There is this

700
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:32.519
attitude. And I'm going to talk
to Jacques about this on stage. I'm

701
00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:39.960
going to have him specifically address this
as to why airline pilots, why military

702
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:46.239
personnel, why scientists are still reluctant
to talk about this. I want to

703
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:50.559
really talk about this. Well,
you know, one of the cases where

704
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:54.320
you and I dealt with this,
and this is kind of an interesting question

705
00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:59.119
to me to kind of put you
on the spot. Actually, is that

706
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:00.559
you know, that's one of the
people were going to have And I think

707
01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:04.599
it is you know, in the
earlier in the day than when you and

708
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:08.559
Jack are speaking at the Congress,
but is Robert Powell and this Puerto Rico

709
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:15.679
case. And in this Puerto Rico
case, there was an expert you and

710
01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:22.559
I were given the information and who
this expert was, what his expertise was

711
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:25.440
so at least I and I'm not
sure what you had went through, but

712
01:00:25.519 --> 01:00:30.440
I was able to verify this guy
was who he was, but he nor

713
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:37.119
his colleagues wanted to go on the
record, and I don't think and I

714
01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:40.360
don't know if you're still planning on
it. I wrote a story on what

715
01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:46.480
he had told us. But what
I think is interesting is that case.

716
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:50.400
I would like to hear your thoughts. You never wrote a story on that

717
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:54.159
case, and I'm curious as to
why and what you thought of this guy.

718
01:00:54.199 --> 01:00:59.400
Did you doubt him or what do
you think? No, I didn't

719
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:01.159
necessarily out him, and I guess
for the listeners, we should guess.

720
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:07.719
Just give a brief background. We're
talking about an alleged I guess you can

721
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:15.840
use the word alleged homeland security video
that depicted an unexplained or unknown object that

722
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:22.000
was flying at very low altitude.
I forget how many miles it went,

723
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:25.719
but this was just this was just
a couple of years ago, and and

724
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:34.440
the idea was that camera or cameras
on board our homeland security vessel was able

725
01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:42.719
to track this UFO for a long
distance, and the word was that it

726
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:45.400
was going so fast, and then
I guess it went into some water and

727
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:52.239
then came out of water. And
I believe Mark D'Antonio, mutual friend of

728
01:01:52.280 --> 01:01:59.440
ours that we both respect, and
he's the photo video analyst chief for Moufon.

729
01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:04.400
I believe that initially, I think
Mark had indicated it might have it

730
01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:07.400
might have been some kind of a
blimp. Do you recall that as part

731
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:13.440
of his Well here's the problem with
that though, and this is what Mark

732
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:16.639
felt that it was possibly a balloon
balloon, right, yeah, But Mark

733
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:23.360
is not an expert, uh in
these systems, like this expert we talked

734
01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:28.440
to was. And this guy,
uh, you know, was able to

735
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:34.559
detail point by point why he felt
this was not a balloon. There's no

736
01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:37.280
way it was balloon and not a
bird. And it made a lot of

737
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.159
sense, and it was one simple
concept was it wouldn't be at the color

738
01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:45.239
it was. It wouldn't look like
an extremely hot object like this one did.

739
01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:49.480
A balloon wouldn't do that. Not
only that, and then you know,

740
01:02:49.519 --> 01:02:52.159
I've talked with Mark about this and
Mark hasn't had the time to do

741
01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:58.679
a full analysis to argue his point. And so that's why it's great.

742
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:05.039
Mark has an opinion, but he
can finish his analysis and counter the true

743
01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:10.440
expert. Well, and I will
tell you another opinion out there well to

744
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:15.719
answer your first question. And I
absolutely believe this because I was working on

745
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:22.360
a couple of other stories when when
you broke your story, My opinion was

746
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:28.000
I could not have done a better
job on reporting the story than you did.

747
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:31.519
I really liked what you did,
and I always like what you do

748
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:40.000
because you dig and you get under
people's skin to really get information, and

749
01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:45.119
you keep digging until you're satisfied with
what you got. And you did it

750
01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:50.480
on this case, and I liked
it so much that I remember talking to

751
01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:52.480
a couple of people here in New
York and I said, you know,

752
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:57.800
I don't think I can I can
do any better than what Alejandro did,

753
01:03:57.880 --> 01:04:00.840
because this is a great story.
Well no, but I mean, well

754
01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:03.760
hockey very much. No. I
two thoughts on that. First of all,

755
01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:08.039
you're making me bleshed. Thank you
so much for saying that, because

756
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.920
I feel the same way about your
work, and that's why. But you're

757
01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:15.639
at a completely different level. Best
case scenario, let's say, best best

758
01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:23.360
case I'm gonna get maybe I could
maybe get two hundred thousand four hundred thousand

759
01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:28.840
hits on a that would be gangbusters
to look at my story. You get

760
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:32.039
millions of people to look at your
stories. That's why you're at a different

761
01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:38.599
level. That's why you you doing
your version of it is taken to another

762
01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:43.280
level. That's one thing. But
the second thing that which kids getting towards

763
01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:48.159
My question though, okay, is
that so it wasn't that you didn't think

764
01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:51.920
that this guy was credible? And
I guess what were your thoughts? I

765
01:04:51.960 --> 01:04:57.960
mean, I found it really interesting
that these guys were so guarded with their

766
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:04.280
with who they were and who they
worked for. I was surprised at first

767
01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:10.039
that that if indeed it was a
homeland security camera that caught this thing,

768
01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:15.199
this object, I was surprised that
it was released instead of being you know,

769
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:21.840
hidden away like so many official pieces
of evidence have been in the past.

770
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:28.920
I actually liked the video a lot. I remember the first couple of

771
01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:32.199
times I looked at it. It's
one of those things where the thing is

772
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:36.880
moving so fast, so consistently,
and the camera had it tracked all the

773
01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:41.800
way. I couldn't take my eyes
off the screen. You know. It

774
01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:45.800
wasn't like it just appeared for three
or four seconds. Like a lot of

775
01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:48.800
UFO videos that we see and then
they go away or they wink out.

776
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:54.960
This thing was like trucking along and
I thought, wow, this not only

777
01:05:55.039 --> 01:06:00.960
is it moving really fast, but
I was very impressed with how accurately and

778
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:05.639
clearly the camera captured it. Yeah, and I felt the same. This

779
01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:09.800
was one of those because it's a
lot. I'll examine it very closely to

780
01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:12.679
try to figure out what it is, and then I'll be like, oh,

781
01:06:12.679 --> 01:06:15.039
I can't figure this out, so
I'll do like you do. I'll

782
01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:19.920
send it to people. In this
case, you know, a buddy had

783
01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:24.400
gotten hold of me and said,
hey, we're looking at this. We've

784
01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:27.639
got a great group of people,
other people I knew, and so I

785
01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:30.400
was like, okay, great,
because these guys are going to figure it

786
01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:34.920
out, and if they can't then
that's a big deal. And of course

787
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:39.480
they couldn't figure it out, and
so far it's upheld. And Richard Haynes,

788
01:06:39.559 --> 01:06:44.320
you know, likes their work and
he also can't figure out what it

789
01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:47.880
is. And he of course works
for a group called my CAP and is

790
01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:55.679
a scientist who's worked for NASA and
he handles pilot UFO cases. It's so

791
01:06:55.800 --> 01:07:02.519
amazing. You'll get people like Richard
Haynes, even Bruce McCabe to a degree.

792
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:10.400
I have many times tried to pin
doctor Bruce mccabee for your listeners who

793
01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:15.679
arena aware of him. He is
a retired Navy optical physicist, and he's

794
01:07:15.719 --> 01:07:24.079
worked on a variety of government programs, classified programs, and he's also analyzed

795
01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:30.760
a lot of UFO images and videos. And yet, in the countless times

796
01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:35.199
that I've interviewed Bruce, every time, every time I'll ask him, I'll

797
01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:38.679
say something like, so, Bruce, at one point, at some point

798
01:07:38.719 --> 01:07:43.519
in the conversation, I'll say to
him, Bruce, do you believe that

799
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:48.239
some of these UFOs come from other
planets? And he's quiet all of a

800
01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:55.239
sudden, he won't come out and
say, yes, I think some of

801
01:07:55.280 --> 01:08:00.280
them may be. And sometimes that
infuriates me. That's funny, you know,

802
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:04.119
because it's it's like he's always kind
of on the edge of saying,

803
01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:06.840
well, we don't know what this
technology is and how these things can do

804
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:11.760
this, and they make all these
you know, sudden turns and ninety degree

805
01:08:11.800 --> 01:08:17.000
angle turns. And yet he's the
perfect example of a serious, legitimate,

806
01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:24.239
credible scientist who won't won't take that
final step and say yes, I think

807
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:28.800
that they could be from out of
space. And he's retired, so he

808
01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:31.600
has nothing to lose at this point. Well, he just wants to be

809
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:35.840
careful. Maybe he doesn't know.
I mean, it's funny. My girlfriend,

810
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:39.760
who you know, Karen, and
I get in arguments all the time.

811
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:43.279
Even when we were in New York, you know, your hometown,

812
01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:46.760
and we visited the Smithsonian. Well
we saw you there. We visited you

813
01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:50.680
there at the museum and we went
down to the Egyptian part. Yeah,

814
01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:55.199
we're arguing because she's like looking,
she's into the ancient alien stuff, and

815
01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:58.880
she's like, look at this,
this has to represent aliens or UFOs and

816
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.319
I'm like, no, it doesn't. He says, well, what is

817
01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:04.119
it? And I tell her,
I don't know what it is. Well,

818
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:06.399
then it's got to be that.
No, it doesn't, just because

819
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:11.439
we don't know what it is,
you know, unless we definitely know,

820
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:15.319
then we can't say it could be
you know, some guy tripping on something,

821
01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:17.000
dude. So it's kind of funny
because we have the same thing and

822
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:23.079
she gets infuriated like you do with
Bruce Well, and it's it's like And

823
01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:29.199
this is again, this is why
I love so much Jacques Vallet's book,

824
01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:38.560
where he brings forth the descriptions of
things that people have reported through the centuries,

825
01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:45.720
and they always report something in the
terms that they understand of their of

826
01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:49.760
their time. So in the fourteen
hundreds, they weren't using the term UFO

827
01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:55.119
because nobody had come up with that
term yet. But they'd see something like

828
01:09:55.960 --> 01:10:03.800
great aerial ships, okay, great
circular a flying shields, oh, very

829
01:10:03.960 --> 01:10:12.600
bright circular orbs doing battle with each
other in the sky. Now that all

830
01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:19.640
does sound very much like modern UFO
reports, but they could only describe them

831
01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:26.239
in the phrases and in the terms
that they knew back then in order to

832
01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:30.600
write about them, to report about
them. And this is what is so

833
01:10:31.239 --> 01:10:35.319
important to me these days. I've
been looking into this for forty years,

834
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:42.159
and I've modified my opinions about UFOs
and flying saucers and where they might or

835
01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:45.680
might not come from. And the
one thing that I've really noticed is that

836
01:10:46.279 --> 01:10:51.840
people are consistent. Jay Allen Heinek
once said to me, you know,

837
01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:59.760
they're not reporting flying pink elephants,
because if they were, then that would

838
01:10:59.800 --> 01:11:03.479
be strange and we'd have to like
really rethink everything. But that's not what

839
01:11:03.560 --> 01:11:11.359
people are reporting. The shapes and
the sightings are remarkably consistent and they and

840
01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:16.319
they always have been. You know, yeah, the book has spheres and

841
01:11:16.560 --> 01:11:20.680
orbs and troubles. Oh yeah.
And you know, you when you talk

842
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:30.279
to like like debunkers or religious debunkers
who look at some of the ancient tapestries

843
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:34.399
and paintings, uh Madonna and Child
and the Christ and blah blah blah,

844
01:11:34.439 --> 01:11:42.199
and you see these these amazing paintings
that are real paintings hanging in real places,

845
01:11:42.680 --> 01:11:47.159
that depict flying sauces in the sky, shooting beams of light down on

846
01:11:47.199 --> 01:11:54.920
the ground and doing amazing things.
And religious debunkers or even even non religious

847
01:11:54.920 --> 01:12:01.439
debunkers will automatically say, well,
it's just religion or religious symbolism. I

848
01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:05.880
hate that, and I hate Well, you're in a unique experience to be

849
01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:11.640
frustrated about that, or in a
unique place because you've had a similar experience.

850
01:12:11.920 --> 01:12:14.800
Yes, And I don't know if
we have talked about it on the

851
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:18.600
show before. So but that's one
of the things I really wanted you to

852
01:12:18.640 --> 01:12:23.319
do, is to describe your citing, because you just kind of described it,

853
01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:28.520
and it does fit not only you
know, religious experiences, but some

854
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:31.800
of the paintings, yes, that
you see out there. I know.

855
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:44.119
In nineteen seventy five, I was
putting together a documentary vinyl record for CBS

856
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:51.119
called UFOs The Credibility Factor, and
I was gathering the voices of law enforcement

857
01:12:51.680 --> 01:12:59.399
politicians, military personnel, scientists,
private citizens, bringing all the voices together

858
01:12:59.479 --> 01:13:05.079
to not only describe their own encounters, but to speak together to try and

859
01:13:05.199 --> 01:13:12.720
get the governments to acknowledge that there
is something going on about UFOs. So

860
01:13:12.760 --> 01:13:16.800
I'm working on gathering all the information
in nineteen seventy five and doctor Heinek calls

861
01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:25.600
me and he tells me that he's
been getting phone calls from law enforcement officials

862
01:13:26.159 --> 01:13:30.119
in Lumberton, North Carolina, that
for the last two or three nights in

863
01:13:30.159 --> 01:13:33.840
a row, people have been reporting
some strange object down there that they can't

864
01:13:33.880 --> 01:13:40.000
explain, and they called him for
help. And he called me and he

865
01:13:40.039 --> 01:13:45.000
said, he said, I don't
have any investigators down there. Could you

866
01:13:45.039 --> 01:13:48.880
take some time off and go down
and see what it is that they're reporting

867
01:13:49.359 --> 01:13:55.600
and if you get enough good credible
interviews and sketches and drawings or whatever,

868
01:13:55.920 --> 01:14:00.960
I'll publish your findings through the Center
for UFO Studies. I asked him,

869
01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:03.720
I said, what are they reporting? What are they seeing? And to

870
01:14:03.800 --> 01:14:09.880
my disappointment, he said, well, they're seeing something that we haven't heard

871
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:16.520
very much about yet in nineteen seventy
five. They're seeing a flying triangle object

872
01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:21.439
or a boomerang shaped object. And
I went, really, I said,

873
01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:27.600
you're not sending me to North Carolina
to maybe see a classic flying saucer,

874
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:30.039
because that's what i'd really like to
see, Allen, and he said,

875
01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:34.319
listen if you don't want to go, and I said, don't complete that

876
01:14:34.399 --> 01:14:39.760
sentence. I'm going because you're the
last person I want to piss off,

877
01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:45.720
literally, And I said, I'm
gone. I'll be there. And within

878
01:14:45.880 --> 01:14:50.520
a few hours of my arrival in
the Sheriff's department in Lumbonton, North Carolina,

879
01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:57.199
in April of nineteen seventy five,
the call started coming into the dispatcher

880
01:14:58.119 --> 01:15:03.319
and into a into a car we
went and staying in touch with other cars

881
01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:08.640
from other counties with car radios,
and until we all converged in front of

882
01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:13.079
this field. The sun had already
gone down, the stars were coming out

883
01:15:13.720 --> 01:15:16.399
very dark. The only sound that
we could all hear in the area.

884
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:24.680
Were nervous animals nervous about something going
on? What nervous animals sound like,

885
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:29.239
you know, like you can tell
like a horse, imagine, mister,

886
01:15:30.199 --> 01:15:31.560
you know the kind of sound that
they make if they're nervous, or even

887
01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:36.159
a dark dogs that just won't stop
barking. You know, things like that,

888
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:42.000
you know, making sounds for no
apparent reason, like okay, okay.

889
01:15:42.800 --> 01:15:45.920
And we were in front of this
field and on the other side of

890
01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:51.039
the field was a line of trees, and above the tops of the trees

891
01:15:51.680 --> 01:15:56.800
there was an alternating white and red
light just it would be white, then

892
01:15:56.840 --> 01:16:00.359
red, and white and red.
And it was moving across the tops of

893
01:16:00.399 --> 01:16:04.760
the trees, and then it stopped
when it got to the point where on

894
01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:09.520
the other side of the field it
was kind of directly opposite where we were

895
01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:14.239
standing on our side of the field, and it started moving across the field

896
01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:21.359
toward us, and it got closer
and closer and closer until it stopped directly

897
01:16:21.479 --> 01:16:27.520
above us in the sky. And
at that point, with it being so

898
01:16:27.640 --> 01:16:30.920
close, we couldn't hear any engine. It had no engine sound, and

899
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:35.239
it just stopped and was floating there
in the sky, and at that point,

900
01:16:35.720 --> 01:16:40.399
because it was so close, and
because it had white lights up one

901
01:16:40.479 --> 01:16:44.640
side and red lights up the other
side, and a bigger white light at

902
01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:49.079
the apex of it. Because of
the lights, we could see the illuminated

903
01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:54.279
shape of the triangle. That's how
we knew that it was a triangle shaped.

904
01:16:55.680 --> 01:17:00.439
And we're just standing there looking up
at this thing. Wow, are

905
01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:08.640
you kidding? And I remember thinking
combination of well, I I feel pretty

906
01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:14.439
safe because I'm surrounded by these men
with their six shooters. And then I

907
01:17:14.439 --> 01:17:16.000
immediately thought, oh, wait a
minute, what am I saying to myself?

908
01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:23.239
If this thing is here to eat
us, no little six shooter is

909
01:17:23.239 --> 01:17:28.279
gonna save us at all. And
as all these kinds of thoughts were going

910
01:17:28.279 --> 01:17:32.199
through my head, the big bright
light at the apex of it suddenly shot

911
01:17:32.199 --> 01:17:38.239
a beam down. Beam came right
out of it and hit the ground right

912
01:17:38.479 --> 01:17:44.199
where we were standing. And that
was like, oh okay, that was

913
01:17:44.279 --> 01:17:50.399
not expected. Now. That lasted
maybe maybe three seconds at the most,

914
01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:55.880
which you know, in that kind
of a situation might seem like forever.

915
01:17:56.800 --> 01:18:00.000
But the beam went back up into
the into the ship. The craft would

916
01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:03.960
ever, and the whole thing all
the lights on it turned off, and

917
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:10.560
then it became an amber color.
And as the amber color of it started

918
01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:15.880
shining, the whole thing started moving
in about a forty five degree angle.

919
01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:19.279
It just turned in the sky and
it slowly started to go away, as

920
01:18:19.359 --> 01:18:23.680
if it was saying to us,
I'm done with you, guys. I'm

921
01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:28.119
going somewhere else to mess around with
somebody else. And we, you know,

922
01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:32.680
we got We got into the cars
and kept in touch with other law

923
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:42.039
enforcement people in the neighboring counties so
that we knew which other people were seeing

924
01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:44.720
the same thing. And for me, this was good because I could go

925
01:18:44.760 --> 01:18:49.039
and get interviews. And we stopped
at different places, and we came upon

926
01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:54.279
this this police chief, police chief
Gary Moore, I remember his name was,

927
01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:59.279
and you could tell he was like
a no nonsense kind of Southern sheriff,

928
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:02.680
like don't screw with me, you
know, I'll have you for breakfast

929
01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:08.000
kind of attitude. And he was
still sitting in his car when we got

930
01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:11.880
there, and he knew we were
coming, so he didn't mind answering some

931
01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:15.439
questions and he said, he said, he was just sitting in his car

932
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:17.760
and all of a sudden, the
inside of his car just completely lit up

933
01:19:18.600 --> 01:19:24.640
and he looked out the window,
just like Richard Dreyfuss did, and close

934
01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:28.479
encountered the third kind when he's on
the railroad tracks and the UFO is above

935
01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:30.960
him, and he just kind of
leans over and to look up. And

936
01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:33.920
the police chief said, this thing
was just sitting in the sky. It

937
01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:38.680
was parked in the sky above me. And I said, well, what

938
01:19:38.720 --> 01:19:41.199
did you do? He said.
I got out of the car, went

939
01:19:41.239 --> 01:19:45.000
to the trunk, pulled out my
big official police lantern. I aimed it

940
01:19:45.079 --> 01:19:48.319
up at the thing and I blinked
it and it blinked back at me.

941
01:19:49.399 --> 01:19:53.760
I went, WHOA, that's interesting. Then what did you do? He

942
01:19:53.760 --> 01:19:58.199
said, Well, I aimed it
again, and I blinked twice, and

943
01:19:58.239 --> 01:20:04.399
it blinked twice back at me,
and then it left. Okay, I'm

944
01:20:04.399 --> 01:20:08.239
good with that one. Thank you, Thank you for the interview. We

945
01:20:08.399 --> 01:20:13.520
found two other police officers who were
on patrol together outside a small town,

946
01:20:14.319 --> 01:20:18.199
and they said that they had heard
through their car radios that this thing was

947
01:20:18.239 --> 01:20:21.680
coming in the sky in their direction, and they get out of the car

948
01:20:21.760 --> 01:20:26.399
and they saw it coming toward them, and they said that without it missing

949
01:20:26.479 --> 01:20:30.920
a beat, instead of just going
over their heads. It made a quick

950
01:20:30.000 --> 01:20:34.960
ninety degree angle turn and went off
in another direction without stopping. Yeah,

951
01:20:35.079 --> 01:20:41.000
you know when you come upon stuff
like that and you know it's not a

952
01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:45.279
hoax, You know it's not being
perpetrated by someone. You know you've seen

953
01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:51.479
something and been part of an experience
that from that point on many other people

954
01:20:51.520 --> 01:20:58.039
would have you. And I know
a man named David Marler who wrote a

955
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:03.159
really interesting book a couple of years
ago about triangular UFOs in America, and

956
01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:10.600
this UFO from North Carolina was one
of the things he investigated. He got

957
01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:15.359
a hold of the report that doctor
Heinek had published, and I didn't know

958
01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:18.800
this at the time, but David
told me that his research revealed that the

959
01:21:18.960 --> 01:21:25.800
encounter that I was involved with in
nineteen seventy five was the very first well

960
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:33.359
documented multiple witness encounter of a triangular
shaped UFO. This was years before the

961
01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:39.159
Phoenix lights. Oh, I didn't
know that. That was amazing to find

962
01:21:39.199 --> 01:21:43.720
out. Well, what's interesting too, is and what made me think of

963
01:21:43.760 --> 01:21:48.319
it also was I hadn't thought of
it in the sense of Jacques Vallet's book

964
01:21:48.319 --> 01:21:56.159
of these Sightings in Antiquity and these
old paintings of you know, these beams

965
01:21:56.159 --> 01:22:00.720
of like coming down on people.
I know, I know, it's amazing,

966
01:22:00.880 --> 01:22:03.439
and it's like, you know,
how many of these do you have

967
01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:08.159
to get hit over the head?
Buy how many of these paintings before you

968
01:22:08.239 --> 01:22:13.760
realize maybe it's not just religious symbolism. Is what I saw in nineteen seventy

969
01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:17.520
five a product of my non religious
symbolic mind playing tricks on me. No,

970
01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:23.079
it was something that was actually there
in the sky and I was with

971
01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:28.000
other people. So you have to
get to a point where you have to

972
01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:33.119
make rational decisions about what you're seeing
or what other people have reported seeing.

973
01:22:35.399 --> 01:22:39.079
You know. Again, it's this
whole spin and dirty tricks thing that that

974
01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:43.800
Nick Pope was trying to tell me
about. You know, if he'd had

975
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:45.920
the chance, or someone else in
the United States had the chance, they

976
01:22:45.920 --> 01:22:49.960
probably would have turned my encounter into
a spin and dirty trick and tried to

977
01:22:50.039 --> 01:22:55.439
ridicule me and the other people about
what we saw. But it never got

978
01:22:55.439 --> 01:22:58.560
to that point, and I was
very happy about that. Yep, thank

979
01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:03.439
goodness. I mean, that's an
incredible sighting. But to change the subject,

980
01:23:03.640 --> 01:23:06.600
yeah, because we're running out of
time, I wanted to ask you

981
01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:10.880
about one more thing. Luckily this
all pertained to the conference and everything,

982
01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:17.720
and but the RUA incident, the
aerial encounter. Maybe if you can kind

983
01:23:17.760 --> 01:23:23.399
of explain it, what you know
about it and your thoughts. I didn't

984
01:23:23.680 --> 01:23:31.239
do as much investigations as other people. I know that James Fox was a

985
01:23:31.359 --> 01:23:36.439
little bit more involved with that.
You might actually be better equipped to tell

986
01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:42.039
the listeners what this was all about. This was like an alien encounter that

987
01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:46.880
let's see, it took place in
It was in Zimbabwe, right, if

988
01:23:46.920 --> 01:23:50.359
I recalls like coming back to me
now there was it was. It took

989
01:23:50.399 --> 01:23:57.039
place at a school and it was
a ninety four, like maybe twenty years

990
01:23:57.039 --> 01:24:03.159
ago. I guess the students at
the school reported seeing something come out of

991
01:24:03.159 --> 01:24:11.239
the sky and land near the school, and they reported occupants that were associated

992
01:24:11.319 --> 01:24:15.239
with this craft. They saw somebody
come out of the craft and and in

993
01:24:15.279 --> 01:24:25.039
fact these beings exchanged or had some
kind of interaction with the kids. And

994
01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:31.800
I forgot who first made it the
who first covered I think but John Mack

995
01:24:32.039 --> 01:24:35.920
in a documentary, because John Mack
went out and interview kids. Yeah,

996
01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:46.840
the Harvard Harvard psychiatrist John mac who
who spent a long time investigating occupant stories,

997
01:24:46.960 --> 01:24:50.920
you know, close encounters of the
third and fourth kind, and you

998
01:24:50.920 --> 01:24:56.439
know where people had had claimed to
have been like abducted. But I don't

999
01:24:56.439 --> 01:25:02.319
believe that any of the kids were
abducted in this case. And years later,

1000
01:25:03.560 --> 01:25:08.279
I know that James Fox was there
and had interviewed some of some of

1001
01:25:08.319 --> 01:25:11.560
the people, some of the kids
who are now grown up, and when

1002
01:25:11.640 --> 01:25:16.760
they when they tell their story,
you can still feel the emotion of what

1003
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:21.039
they went through and what they never
forgot. It's like you you believe that

1004
01:25:21.439 --> 01:25:29.319
they saw something, experience something extraordinary. And the young lady Emily that you're

1005
01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:34.720
going to have at the Congress,
does she speak a good English now or

1006
01:25:34.800 --> 01:25:38.239
was that? Was that never a
problem? Oh? Yeah, never a

1007
01:25:38.279 --> 01:25:41.760
problem. They speak English, they're
just you know, with a kind of

1008
01:25:41.760 --> 01:25:45.720
a British accent type of thing.
But she doesn't. She's Canadian now.

1009
01:25:45.319 --> 01:25:49.319
In fact, I think maybe she
has a Canadian accent. But yeah,

1010
01:25:49.359 --> 01:25:54.920
that's why I was asking, because, like you described, uh, it's

1011
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:59.640
a it's a great case. And
yeah, that's another exciting speaker we're going

1012
01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:03.520
to have. And yeah, I
think that there hasn't been one of these

1013
01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:10.479
witnesses these projects you're talking about where
the kids have been interviewed, Yes,

1014
01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:14.439
a couple of them. Randall Nickrochsten
is doing one. I's been working on

1015
01:26:14.479 --> 01:26:16.279
it for years and we had him
at our conference a few years ago.

1016
01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:20.680
James Fox is working on a documentary
called seven oh one and he's going to

1017
01:26:20.760 --> 01:26:28.560
include that case in there. But
these documentaries haven't come to fruition yet,

1018
01:26:29.199 --> 01:26:34.079
and so that's what's cool is that, so nobody's really got to hear from

1019
01:26:34.119 --> 01:26:39.079
these kids yet. And so we're
going to have Emily, who was one

1020
01:26:39.079 --> 01:26:44.560
of those kids, come to the
UFO Congress to speak. She did do

1021
01:26:44.680 --> 01:26:48.479
a conference, a small conference,
this similar kind of thing recently, well

1022
01:26:48.600 --> 01:26:54.000
a few months ago in Canada,
but this will be then the first time

1023
01:26:54.039 --> 01:26:58.479
in the US, and we are
really excited about it. I got to

1024
01:26:58.520 --> 01:27:02.239
meet her a few months ago.
She kind of like last year, we

1025
01:27:02.319 --> 01:27:08.720
had the Alligash guys, and we've
got a really good documentary kind of thing

1026
01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:13.920
coming out pretty soon for YouTube for
free on the Aligash. But these guys

1027
01:27:13.960 --> 01:27:17.039
had their experiences and their art change. They were all artists. Well,

1028
01:27:17.079 --> 01:27:21.079
same with Emily. She's now doing
art that she feels is kind of an

1029
01:27:21.119 --> 01:27:27.319
expression of the messages she received back
then, because these kids feel they receive

1030
01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:30.960
these telepathic messages. So it's really
extraordinary. And I'm so excited for people

1031
01:27:31.039 --> 01:27:38.439
to see her art work and hear
her stories because that is an incredible case.

1032
01:27:38.479 --> 01:27:43.880
And a lot of people who have
read about or seen anything about the

1033
01:27:43.920 --> 01:27:47.680
case are really enthusiastic about it.
You know, you're right. And just

1034
01:27:47.800 --> 01:27:56.680
because you hear stories where children describe
something, or you hear so many more

1035
01:27:56.760 --> 01:28:03.319
stories where young adults and older adults
who now refer to themselves as experiencers.

1036
01:28:03.479 --> 01:28:10.039
Okay, it's almost it's like a
subculture context of the whole UFO community.

1037
01:28:10.960 --> 01:28:16.439
So many people now have been coming
forward and telling stories of their encounters with

1038
01:28:16.600 --> 01:28:26.600
some kinds of beings. It's so
easy for hardcore skeptics and debunkers to jump

1039
01:28:26.680 --> 01:28:30.479
on these people. Well, you
can't prove what happened, and you know,

1040
01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:32.920
you can't even give us a picture. It's just you know, maybe

1041
01:28:32.920 --> 01:28:36.199
it was just nothing but a bad
dream that you had, or you know,

1042
01:28:36.279 --> 01:28:43.159
the debunkers will always do and say
whatever they can to to well spin

1043
01:28:43.239 --> 01:28:47.840
and dirty tricks there it is,
you know, to make people feel ridiculed

1044
01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:53.239
to the point where they never want
to tell the stories anymore. And I

1045
01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:59.880
think Jacques Vallet is probably one of
those scientists who who is totally against the

1046
01:29:00.159 --> 01:29:03.000
kind of debunking and ridicule, and
we're going to get into that on stage

1047
01:29:03.079 --> 01:29:09.520
at the Congress. Really exciting.
So we're out of time, but thank

1048
01:29:09.560 --> 01:29:14.439
you so much for coming on and
talking about all of this. It's become

1049
01:29:15.039 --> 01:29:17.359
well, I think it's been really
informative. It was kind of like a

1050
01:29:18.840 --> 01:29:24.760
big UFO Congress advertisement, but we're
both so excited about it. I mean,

1051
01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:28.920
this is some really cool stuff that's
going to be happening. And it's

1052
01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:31.600
kind of funny because I don't know, well, you were kind of like

1053
01:29:31.640 --> 01:29:35.039
this because you can didn't get a
come last year. And it's kind of

1054
01:29:35.079 --> 01:29:40.680
funny because it's in a way and
it's not to be mean. It's fun

1055
01:29:41.239 --> 01:29:48.000
when the conference you get people there
that people really want to see to where

1056
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:55.399
they want to come so bad where
it hurts that they're not there. And

1057
01:29:55.439 --> 01:29:59.000
it's not that I want them to
hurt because they're not there. I would

1058
01:29:59.119 --> 01:30:01.680
rather have them there, just come
to the The way to get rid of

1059
01:30:01.680 --> 01:30:05.720
that pain is just to come to
the Congress and last year, there were

1060
01:30:05.720 --> 01:30:10.119
a lot of people that were like, I wanted to be there so badly

1061
01:30:10.239 --> 01:30:14.119
to see bab Lazar. And now
this year, you know, already people

1062
01:30:14.159 --> 01:30:15.720
are posting, oh my gosh,
I want to be there so bad.

1063
01:30:16.039 --> 01:30:19.159
Well, you know what the way
to resolve it is to come to the

1064
01:30:19.199 --> 01:30:26.680
conference, is to somehow get there
and book your hotel rooms because you want

1065
01:30:26.680 --> 01:30:30.800
to be able to stay within fifty
miles off the cost because you know,

1066
01:30:30.239 --> 01:30:35.800
they the nearby conference rooms start to
book up, so people want to come.

1067
01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:40.720
And you know, one good option
for people too is there are rooms

1068
01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:45.159
that aren't too far away, like
maybe twenty minutes for like fifty bucks a

1069
01:30:45.239 --> 01:30:48.800
night, so you could that's that
cheap. You could rent a car and

1070
01:30:48.920 --> 01:30:54.159
stay there and you know, save
money. Yeah, well, I'm looking

1071
01:30:54.199 --> 01:30:59.359
forward to seeing everybody. Let's let's
just remind everybody that we're talking about what

1072
01:30:59.479 --> 01:31:04.199
Guinness World Records calls the largest,
the biggest UFO conference in the world.

1073
01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:12.439
Love that and I think I think
I think this year or next year maybe

1074
01:31:12.720 --> 01:31:17.840
really truly one of the biggest because
of Jacquesvallet. Absolutely. Yeah, well,

1075
01:31:17.880 --> 01:31:20.960
thank you so much for being on
the show, but thank you so

1076
01:31:21.119 --> 01:31:27.279
much for thinking of us and for
you know, making this happen. I

1077
01:31:27.279 --> 01:31:31.560
think Race Hobbs who runs kg R
A, I saw him post on Facebook

1078
01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:35.479
thank you Lee, because I think
you guys have talked. But yeah,

1079
01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:40.920
thank you for for making this happen. And of course always left seeing you.

1080
01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:44.479
It's going to be so cool to
happy. Yes, it's going to

1081
01:31:44.560 --> 01:31:47.600
be great. I always enjoy seeing
you and uh, you're like my long

1082
01:31:47.640 --> 01:31:55.119
lost brother. Thank you so much
to Lee Spiegel for being on the show

1083
01:31:55.279 --> 01:31:59.359
again. It's always a ton of
fun. And thank you, of course

1084
01:31:59.399 --> 01:32:05.720
to Martin Willis for joining us every
week from UFO Podcast to talk about the

1085
01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:12.279
news. If you want to hear
more about Lee, you can go to

1086
01:32:12.359 --> 01:32:16.720
the UFO Congress website and go to
the speaker page and you'll see Jacques Vallet

1087
01:32:16.960 --> 01:32:25.560
and Lee and Emily and all of
our other amazing speakers. And be sure

1088
01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:30.079
you know to join our email list
if you haven't already. We only send

1089
01:32:30.079 --> 01:32:34.840
out emails bi weekly. It's an
email newsletter. Once in a while we'll

1090
01:32:34.880 --> 01:32:41.640
send out another email, a special
one if we have any news such as

1091
01:32:41.760 --> 01:32:45.159
you know, Jacques Vallet joining the
conference or something like that, so we

1092
01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:47.680
don't send it. We don't blitch
you with emails. However, it's a

1093
01:32:47.720 --> 01:32:51.600
good way to keep up to date
with Open mind GOFO Radio, with the

1094
01:32:51.680 --> 01:32:57.840
UFO Report, with our hot stories
going on, and with the UFO Congress

1095
01:32:57.880 --> 01:33:02.319
because we give you updates on all
of that in our newsletter. So you

1096
01:33:02.359 --> 01:33:08.760
can get the newsletter by going to
openminds dot tv and in the upper right

1097
01:33:08.760 --> 01:33:12.840
hand corner you'll see the join the
email list box where you could submit your

1098
01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:17.239
email address, or you can email
us at contact at openminds dot tv and

1099
01:33:17.279 --> 01:33:23.439
say, hey, add me to
your email list and we'll do it.

1100
01:33:23.960 --> 01:33:29.199
So it's that simple to do that. So please do join the list because

1101
01:33:29.239 --> 01:33:32.680
that keeps you up to date on
everything. And we have pretty much,

1102
01:33:32.720 --> 01:33:38.800
i would say ninety nine percent of
our speakers listed. There's only one speaker

1103
01:33:39.199 --> 01:33:45.520
we don't have listed yet, however, you know, and that's what's exciting

1104
01:33:45.560 --> 01:33:49.560
about this year. It's our twentieth
anniversary and it's really shaping up to be

1105
01:33:50.079 --> 01:33:56.199
a stellar year at the UFO Congress, what with Jacques Vallet and Emily Trim.

1106
01:33:57.199 --> 01:34:00.520
You know, we have another of
other great Chase, Chase Kletzky,

1107
01:34:00.600 --> 01:34:06.800
who's just really cool, great researcher
John Greenwald and Barbara Lamb. We've got

1108
01:34:06.800 --> 01:34:13.279
doctor David Jacobs, who of course
is a well known and important person in

1109
01:34:13.319 --> 01:34:16.399
the field. We have doctor Klatt
Swanson, who you probably haven't heard of,

1110
01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:20.119
although those of you who have listened
to my show for a long time.

1111
01:34:20.920 --> 01:34:24.640
He was one of my, if
not the first interview I did,

1112
01:34:24.680 --> 01:34:27.399
one of my very first one I
had when this used to be called the

1113
01:34:27.479 --> 01:34:32.720
UFO think Tank, before the existence
of Open Minds. So some of you

1114
01:34:32.760 --> 01:34:38.199
may be familiar with him. If
you're not, you will be pleasantly surprised

1115
01:34:38.520 --> 01:34:43.439
with his talk. He's a theoretical
physicist. He he worked at MIT.

1116
01:34:43.640 --> 01:34:46.840
I think he even got a degree
there. But really cool guy, some

1117
01:34:46.880 --> 01:34:55.720
really amazing stuff talking about the technology, the science of UFO propulsion and how

1118
01:34:55.720 --> 01:35:00.079
it ties into other paranormal phenomena.
So you know, could even I think

1119
01:35:00.239 --> 01:35:06.039
he kind of explains explain you know, ghosts or psychic abilities and stuff like

1120
01:35:06.079 --> 01:35:12.880
this. Really cool stuff. Doctor
Ron Westrom a psychologist in sociology or I'm

1121
01:35:12.920 --> 01:35:19.000
mean a former professor of sociology who
talks about how he examines how in the

1122
01:35:19.039 --> 01:35:26.039
past there have been scientific phenomena or
phenomena, natural phenomena, or a real

1123
01:35:26.079 --> 01:35:30.840
phenomena that had occurred that people didn't
believe were real, and what it took

1124
01:35:30.920 --> 01:35:35.439
for them to and the scientific community
to demonstrate that this was a real phenomena.

1125
01:35:35.760 --> 01:35:41.359
And he's gonna parallel that to the
UFO field and to show how we're

1126
01:35:41.399 --> 01:35:45.399
going through a similar sort of process. So that's really interesting. Just a

1127
01:35:45.439 --> 01:35:49.159
lot of really really cool stuff.
And we'll highlight more of these speakers,

1128
01:35:49.399 --> 01:35:55.359
Nick Pope, We're gonna have We're
gonna highlight more of these speakers in the

1129
01:35:55.399 --> 01:35:58.159
emails as time goes by, but
you'll be able to see that in the

1130
01:35:58.199 --> 01:36:01.600
speaker list. So yeah, but
one speaker is listed. And like I

1131
01:36:01.640 --> 01:36:08.359
said, we've had some huge announcements
with the speakers that we're having, and

1132
01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:12.399
this last speaker once we have it
all confirmed and worked out. We just

1133
01:36:12.399 --> 01:36:15.880
don't list people until we have it
all confirmed and worked out. It's going

1134
01:36:15.960 --> 01:36:19.600
to be another doozy. You're going
to be extremely excited about it, like

1135
01:36:19.800 --> 01:36:27.239
I am, so another doozy,
another really really cool speaker. So this

1136
01:36:27.319 --> 01:36:30.159
is going to be a stollar year. So be sure to sign up.

1137
01:36:30.600 --> 01:36:33.439
Let us know if you need anything. You can email just so you know,

1138
01:36:33.800 --> 01:36:39.119
you can contact us by telephone,
but to be completely honest, we're

1139
01:36:39.239 --> 01:36:43.199
very busy and we might not answer
the phone because there's only a couple of

1140
01:36:43.279 --> 01:36:45.640
us here, and of course I'm
writing stories, I'm doing the radio show,

1141
01:36:45.720 --> 01:36:48.319
all this other stuff, so often
I'll have to let it go to

1142
01:36:48.399 --> 01:36:51.439
voicemail and I'll get back with you, and I will get back with you.

1143
01:36:51.840 --> 01:36:56.760
However, we can answer email us
a little more quickly, so if

1144
01:36:56.800 --> 01:37:01.680
you email us that would be preferable
to calling. But still call if you

1145
01:37:01.720 --> 01:37:08.439
need to, No problem anyway.
Thank you to everybody who helped out with

1146
01:37:08.520 --> 01:37:13.920
the show. Lise Spiegel was awesome
as usual. Also what was awesome as

1147
01:37:14.039 --> 01:37:18.680
usual was the opening end closed music
provided by Caleb Hanks. He's awesome.

1148
01:37:18.720 --> 01:37:25.239
You could get a link to his
site, the cook Chronicles at the open

1149
01:37:25.319 --> 01:37:30.800
Minds UFO radio page on openminds dot
tv. And also thank you to you

1150
01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:35.960
all. That's it's just a absolute
pleasure to meet you all like I do

1151
01:37:36.159 --> 01:37:42.520
occasionally at these conferences. It's great
to meet you at the UFO Congress.

1152
01:37:42.560 --> 01:37:45.800
So hopefully you can make it,
but I hope you all do. Have

1153
01:37:45.000 --> 01:37:49.359
a wonderful, wonderful holiday and a
great dinner. And I hope you know,

1154
01:37:50.359 --> 01:37:55.239
I know, family can be annoying, there can be those those characters.

1155
01:37:56.439 --> 01:38:00.039
Hopefully you have a great family where
you guys really enjoy each other and

1156
01:38:00.159 --> 01:38:03.279
it's wonderful. But practice some patience, be patient, and I hope that

1157
01:38:03.359 --> 01:38:09.920
everybody gets along and everybody has a
wonderful time and you're and uh, you

1158
01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:16.520
know, everybody puts aside some of
the annoying quirks that are they don't want

1159
01:38:16.560 --> 01:38:19.760
to rib you or bike you about
when are you gonna get married, when

1160
01:38:19.800 --> 01:38:23.560
are you gonna have a kid.
It's like mom, lay off, you

1161
01:38:23.640 --> 01:38:27.720
know, I know how it goes. But hopefully you guys have a great

1162
01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:30.840
holiday, and we will talk to
you, and we won't have a show

1163
01:38:30.880 --> 01:38:35.800
obviously because to the holiday next week. I'll try to make one happen.

1164
01:38:35.880 --> 01:38:40.840
I really will, but at worst
case scenario, we'll talk to you in

1165
01:38:40.840 --> 01:39:38.199
a couple of weeks. Audio smooth
chachos, your motionless sound, the glass array