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Fromwell Today. Still have a loaded podcast for you, though, I'm gonna
do a solo mailbag since we solicited your questions and Adam can't be here for
it. I'm gonna get into both the Celtics and Nuggets being down three to
one, using some questions as an impetus to talk about what they'll need to
do ahead of their game fives, and then there will be obviously other mail
back questions, and then we get into our Milwaukee Box look ahead. Just
a fascinating team this offseason. I've brought in thy Windish of the Eurostep podcast,
also of the Blue Wire Network. You can follow him on Twitter at
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hey, let's get into this mailbag. I feel kind of weird doing a
podcast alone. It's been a minute and a half since that really happened.
We'll get started with the do why don't we why don't we get going with
the Celtics here since their series could end against the Miami Heat. As you're
listening to this, this question comes from Jeff Nicholas, who actually has two
questions in this episode because they were so good, and I actually commenteered one
from him, but he says, I keep hearing media folks referring to Miami
zone as simple a high school D or even a junk D. Could you
guys talk about the things Miami is doing that differentiate their zone from the ones
people learned about at the boys Club? So I have not seen anyone call
it a junk D, particularly when it's been so effective. And look,
I'm not this xs and Os Savant. I wish that I could watch and
see and think the game the way that so many others ken. That's just
not that's not my brand. But that being said, Boston to struggle against
the zone all years statistically, and so it's kind of no surprise that they've
also grappled with what Miami's doing. I think some of the things that I've
noticed and read about that seems to differentiate Miami is if they're gonna go in
a two three zone, they don't really seem scared about putting their two best
wing defenders like just upfront, and then you know you could plant your two
weaker defenders but behind them, and you're going to try and just Coake's action
then to let's assume bam At a Baio is on the court and they'll direct
offenses to him that way, and that's worked for them, it seems in
the times that they have gone to it. And it also I mean when
you have Jay Crowder and Jimmy Butler up at the top there, it feels
like you can force Boston into a ton of more turnovers and then just really
get some nice contests in there where you're not going to give up as many
let's, I don't want to say wide open threes, but easier threes.
And that has been the case. If you look at what's been going on
in this series, they're forcing turnovers on sixteen point point five percent of Boston's
possessions right now. That is up from Boston during the regular season where they
were excuse me, they were right around I think thirteen point one percent was
where they land thirteen point six percent, excuse me, So so that numbers
up. Then if you look at just the types of threes that they're taking
in this series, ten point ten percent flat of Boston's attempts have gone have
gone straight contested from beyond the arc, not heavily contested, it's with a
defender between two and four feet away. That is basically double just the percentage
that they had going during the regular season. And so the other thing that
you notice when you watch Miami is that they just like they work depending on
who's on the floor, but there their rotations can be on point, and
so they're going to force the Celtics to work late into the shot clock and
that might account for some of these lower percentage looks that they're then getting,
and not every defense is going to be built to do that. And so
your the ball ball movement for Boston at points two, it's like kind of
been good on some of these possessions, but you just turn around and like
Jay Crowder's right there or Jimmy Butler's right there, and it ends up being
a huge deal. So I think more so than anything, the heats personnel
is kind of allowed them to maximize the times that they've gone to Zone D.
And then they also don't necessarily need to use it as a Crutch if
Boston busted up the way that it kind of did at points in in Game
three, and I think that's really helped them. And this question kind of
dovetails nicely with Wood. Boston kind of has to do the win this series,
and that's they got to solve the zone defense somehow, and maybe that's
that's not the way to go because or that's not something that we can expect
from them, just because they've struggled against it all season. You would help
hope that having Gordon Hayward back would maybe help. At the same time,
like they're still not teaming with guys who are going to put a ton of
pressure on the rim. Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum are probably are two best
options, and it does doesn't look like Kemba Walker has the juice to do
that right now. Marcus Smart not necessarily not necessarily someone you can rely on
to do that so frequently, and that's kind of always been not a huge
knock against the Celtics, but it was definitely something people focused on. With
Jason Tatum's game, he's gotten better at it. But when you're just looking
at what Miami is putting out out there, if you're gonna have Jimmy Butler
and Jake Crowder just as that first line of defense against guys who were going
to try and attack the basket, like that's going to get difficult, and
failing that, then you're just going to have to hit just your jump shots
at these higher clips. And so you look at we can look at this
series in some but if you look at Game four specifically, which is a
game that Boston by the way, could have won, they're going fourteen or
forty from three and like, that's fine, but you're probably gonna need to
hit more than that going up against this if you're going to take forty three
pointers would be my point. So you're only a plus twelve from beyond the
arc against Miami in that game, which was ten of thirty seven themselves.
And you know, look, Boston's defense was good in that game. If
you're looking for sort of adjustments, I thought they did all right. And
Tyler Hero just hit a bunch of difficult shots. So Gordon Gordan joggers and
not have his best game of the series. Jimmy Butler was just so so
as well when you're looking at their efficiency, so that Boston seems to.
I don't want to say figured out Miami there, but they're they're definitely okay.
It's that they're gonna have to get just more consistent offensively, and I
don't know if they have what it takes off Miami is going to continue to
lean on this zone, which it seems like they will. I don't know
if they necessarily have the personnel right now to break it. Let's move on
to the Nuggets Lakers series, though this one's gonna come from Jordan's Scott.
He asked thoughts on this, which is a tweet that says Monte Morris is
slashing sixty five sixty eighty four in this series. LMAO, WTF that is
the appropriate reaction, and after Game four, Monte Morris is now slashing about
sixty three, forty three, seventy seven. We'll get deeper into this series.
I'm just using this question as a launching point. It's the only Nuggets
Lakers question we had. Monte Morris is in the conversation, probably subtly because
I don't feel like he's not talked about Nash but as the best backup point
guard in the NBA, and it probably helps a little bit that you can't
really consider Mark It's Smart or Fred van Fleet that guy anymore. They were
predominantly starters this year. The other names in the conversation, maybe Dennis Shrewder,
Spencer Dimwoody could be right up there as well. But you just look
at what Monte Morris is able to do. He does have usually great command
of a game. A lot is made of how he just doesn't turn the
ball over, and that's absolutely huge. He's someone who's going to be an
efficient three point shooter, doesn't necessarily need the ball in his hands. But
he also has like this disarming sort of an attack to him, where like
he's not super explosive, like he's going to take these little like push shots
floaters in the lane and he'll get by guys. He's not afraid to go
up against contact. And he just does all these things so smartly. And
you know that amounts to just a super effective, interesting player. You could
get away with minutes of him Jamal Murray playing together, especially because of how
Jamal mur has been competing on defense. I really like him. I don't
want to, you know, get too far into the weeds here, but
he's going to be a free agent after next season, and his next contract
is going to be just fascinating. I don't know what he would end up
landing, but it's certainly going to be more than the pennies on the dollar
he's making in Denver. He is he's at one point seven million non guaranteed
for next year. They were absolutely going to guarantee that though. But so
Game four for the Nuggets was I don't know if you would call it a
disaster because they only lose by six and definitely a winnable game for them one
And we've said that a bunch this series. The things that I think stand
out most and you could say having Paul millsapp and nicoleo kitchen foul trouble at
points definitely didn't help. And then even when Yo Kitch was on the floor
for a bunch of this game but didn't feel like he was being too aggressive,
that's that's like something the bigger things to me. And it's even more
so than than saying you can't against this Lakers team like you have to win
the three point battle. That's just how I come in looking at this.
So, yes, they were ten of eight thirty five point seven percent.
That's Denver. But La was a ton of thirty. And so when you
know that LA is going to generate extra possessions on the offensive class and just
because they're gonna get out and transition to bunch, you have to win the
three point battle because the Denver just very clearly has better shooting personnel on their
team, I would say, but you also have to look, I think
at this one at the second chance points. The Lakers outscored Denver twenty five
to six in second chance points in a six point game. And then just
on top of that, like the Lakers were plus eight at the foul line.
That's absolutely a killer. I mean, like you're giving up basically twenty
seven points right there while tying them in the three point category. That's not
going to be a great recipe to win. I don't necessarily know how they
can control the glass a little bit better. It felt like, you know,
especially late in the game, like they weren't expecting shots earlier in the
shot clock from the Lakers, and then gods just weren't in imposition. But
there's no reason Rondo should be grabbing in offensive rebound. So they the Nuggets
have to do a better job of keeping the Lakers off the last specifically Dwight
Howard just in small burks. Look, Anthy Davis had one offensive rebound in
this game and only five rebounds overall, so it's not even him that was
necessarily killing them, Like they're just getting out muscled and out hustled by Dwight
Howard, and then the offensive rebounds is just they're coming like in miniature from
everywhere where Lebron has one, I mentioned Anthy Davis has one, KCP has
one, Danny Green has one, Rondo has two. Like that that shouldn't
be an actual thing. And so you're definitely going to have to tone that
down leading into Game five if you want there to be a Game six.
And look, the Nuggets have been here before. The jokes are going to
be made. I made one on Twitter that said the Nuggets are now up
one to three on the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals. We've seen that
this is a mentally tough Denver team and that a bad performance that puts them
on the ropes does not just qualify them from really just coming out and punching
back. I would expect Game five, hopefully to be a close one that
wasn't necessarily convincing but just based off what we're seeing, Yeah, there's the
chance that the Nuggets are just exhausted, exhausting, but in a game where
they like far from executed perfectly from where they were, they were all these
foul calls on Joo Kitchen millsap when they were guarding Lebron specifically, like they
were still in it. And look, if Lebron James doesn't make the switch
to Jamal Murray defensively later in the game and put the screws to him,
are we talking about a Denver victory? Am I still watching this game?
Because it went into overtime. It did seem like Lebron got away with some
we'll call it light hacking that should have been called. But the fact that
he was able to hang on that assignment Layton the game, like Jamal Murray
was just absolutely on a tear in this one. Thirty two points eight assists
just been really just turned perception for me of him completely in these playoffs,
where I still viewed him as this up and down player who maybe didn't necessarily
peak, but I wasn't sure if he was bankable. I think he's bankable
now and if he's just going to be more valuable in the playoffs, as
we've talked about on this podcast and the regular season. I mean, that's
absolutely fine. And maybe another thing you can point to from Denver's like,
you're gonna just have to get better wing minutes here. Jeremy Grant had to
go forty three deep in this one, in part again because millsap and even
Yokich a little bit like those two having them in foul trouble hurts. But
Gary Harris is giving you nothing on offense, and so he's playing sub twenty
minutes in this one. Tory Craig, you just can't trust to shooting one
of four from beyond the arc? Can you get away with playing him for
more than twenty minutes? And then it seems like head coach Mike Malone was
really throwing shade at Michael Porter Junior for his defense in this one. He
was relatively efficient in the minutes. He played five of eight from the floor,
three of six from three, including this like awesome step back. It
was earlier in the game. I don't know where they're going to look to
aside from Grant to get more consistent wing minutes. And look, Grant wasn't
even like great offensively, but he is at least like the energy is there
and he's attacking and he's probably you know, you're not going to count him
to shoot too well from three all the time, but he's been thirty nine
plus percent for the past two seasons coming off a huge game there. But
you need it, you need to Harris game to pop, or you need
to Michael Porter Jr. Just be better with his rotations, and if you
can get one of those things, it's it's that more likely. Or just
get a Tory Craig Hits three's game, Like, I don't really know,
that's where I'm at. Maybe you go to p J. Dogier more.
That's probably another option, which we are that we're talking about them potentially doing
that, And you have to look, you have to hope that both your
two of your three primary bigs in Yokich and mill Stap aren't in this much
foul trouble because I don't this doesn't feel like I'm Mason Plumby series right now.
I'm just not going along. I'm minus seven and in thirteen almost fourteen
minutes for him. But of these two series, though, if I had
to guess where we're most likely to see a Game five, this is going
to crush my soul. I think it's Boston Miami who feel more evenly matched,
and that goes against everything we've seen from the Nuggets. I picked the
Nuggets in seven in this series. That was mostly out of sheer stubbornness,
though something about I don't know that the Lakers have necessarily figured out the Nuggets,
but Anthony Davis has just been absolutely world beating in series. Like the
shots he's hitting. I talk a lot about how he's so good offensively because
so much of his scoring comes within the flow of everything. He is the
flow for pointing us, like hitting these ridiculously difficult jumpers. We saw his
game winner in Game two. It was and then like you look at his
fourth quarter efficiency in this series. This comes from the Fast Break Breakfast podcast
ninety two point five tru shooting in the fourth quarter of this series. I
mean, like, that's just melting my mind right now even thinking about it.
And you don't necessarily have an answer for him, and the Nuggets is
a team have been absolutely carved up. As we mentioned on the last podcast,
whenever Yokich is his primary defender, and it doesn't even matter if Davis
is finishing the play. The Lakers have just absolutely brutalized them in those those
situations. So a lot of things that are not tilting Denver's favor. I
would say that the factors that they can control is you can be way more
aggressive on the defensive glass. And I can't even say that they can control
the wing minutes. I think it's can you shoot better from beyond the arc,
like better than the Lakers? Those seem like more controllable things here.
And I can't even say stay out of foul trouble as a controllable thing,
just because if Lebron gets going downhill, and even with Anthony Davis like those
are those are incredibly tough covers. So they're going to need some of the
stuff. Feels like it's beyond their control. But definitely the second chest point,
second chance points have to be limited for them to have a legitimate shot
at making this third three to one come back. And if they do that,
I don't even I don't even know. I think Twitter would just implode.
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Moving on to just around the League, I guess, although I think we
will touch on the Nuggets again once more. This is the second question from
Jeff Nicholas. He asks, is it just me or is hiring a coach
for the free agent he might be able to attract several years a bad idea
before even getting to Harden and d Antony never making the finals and having multiple
ugly flame mats. So this is because of the report that said the Sixers
are at least partially intrigued by Mike D'Antonio as their coach because they believe that
he could war James Harden there in a couple of years. That is,
you know, that is something I don't really know how else to say it.
It definitely can't be the primary reason that you hire a Mike d Antoni
because James Harden is not scheduled for free agency, I believe until two twenty
three, and at that point we're talking about in James Harden, who is
going to be thirty four at that point, having just wrapped up his age
thirty three season. I'm actually gonna double check his contract to make sure there
wasn't a player option on it. But I don't know why you're banking that
far into the future. I guess there's the aspect of the trade because the
Rockets do feel very combustible, So you're going to hire a coach based on
the fact that he might help you trade for a player, Like you don't
need Mike D'Antoni to trade for James Harden insofar as he ever gets on the
chopping block, and so I missed book. He does have the player option
in twenty twenty two, so there's two years at that point, and then
he will be thirty three coming off his age thirty two season. You can't
make the decision to hire Mike D'Antoni solely because of hard It just doesn't make
any sense. I will say it does feel like, you know, Jeff
pointed to Houston not having the best playoff success, It does really feel like
Harden and Mike D'Antoni had a good relationship, though, like this didn't seem
like a byproduct of a failure between them. D'Antoni leaving Houston that felt more
organizational. I don't know if maybe he didn't support the Westbrook trade or he
was just really turned off by the way Tilman Force either handled those those contract
extensions over the offseason. So no, that is not a vowd reason to
hire a coach. And look, I'm fairly intrigued by Mike D'Antoni in Philly,
not just because he was, you know, there for a minute previously.
A lot of people are just gonna say, well, that's just not
the type of team that he's going to coach. And I do think that
Mike D'Antoni deserves a little bit more credit for being adaptable, like this isn't
Tom Thibodeau here, where the evidence overwhelmingly suggests that he's stubborn and rigid and
just inflexible. Look at what he's done in Houston. Did you ever envision
him as yes, could you said, getting away from a team with those
traditional center shure a team that's going to take like a zillion three pointers every
game? Absolutely, But a team that's super iso heavy like that was never
D'Antoni stick. And so there are things that he runs too when you're looking
at Houston's off ball screening and some other stuff that was pointed out by Caitlin
Cooper of Indie corn Rows. Since he's in the running through the Pacers job
as well, like he can kind of work with finite spacing, and he
had to for a big part of the season because you had Russell Westbrook and
Clint Capella logging some minutes together, even though that wasn't when the Rockets were
at their best. And I don't know that I would necessarily he would be
my first choice for Philly. I think grading coaches is just so hard.
I would probably like someone who's going to I guess be I don't even know
it, but maybe Mike D'Antoni is the best fit. You could say that
you want someone who is going to optimize their offense with the personnel they have,
but I'm really not sure who that is. You know, it's Kenny
Atkinson, like he'll give them the shot profile, like he's the coach most
likely to force Ben Simmons to take threes. But I don't necessarily know what
that translates to. I don't I doubt that they're willing to go the you
know, first time head coach route. I don't know that they're going to
necessarily be looking for a defense first guy either. Tyler feels like he would
make sense there just as someone who would hold them accountable, and he's also
a pretty good offensive mind. When you're looking at his track record, so
he'd probably be my top pick. I don't know where D'Antoni necessarily lands though,
beyond that, but that's a that's a good question because it's topical.
But no team should not be hiring a coach because he might help them get
a player they don't need him to get down the line who might not necessarily
even become available. Just bizarre reasoning. If that is even ten percent of
why they're not ten percent, But like if it's why, like twenty percent
of the reason you're hiring Mike d'antoni's because he might give you a chance at
landing in an elder James Harden in free agency. You know, I'm not
no, there's a chance that. Look that if the Rockets are really going
to implode and James Harden gets that itch to leave in twenty twenty two,
he becomes available via trade, perhaps depending on how the Rockets wrap up next
season, obviously, and Philly's gonna have Yammo unless they make a ton of
moves before then to go after him, and you don't need Mike D'Antoni for
that. Next question comes from Avid Indoorsman, which is a great Twitter name
right now during these times? Is Jalen Brown going to be worth his contract?
I believe he's at four years and one hundred and seven million dollars,
which includes guarantees and then likely incentives, and then he has about eight million
and unlikely incentives, so it could come up to one hundred and fifteen million.
I'm going to say yes, and I don't know that it's much of
a debate for me. He is, like we've seen him branch out on
offense where he can take like dribble into these jumpers and he can put pressure
on the rim if he's gonna put the ball on the floor. But he's
very plug and play on offense. Otherwise, if you're looking for him to
make the what seems like Jayson Tatum is done like that size of an improvement
as a passer, it doesn't feel like it's going to come. He's never
shown that knack for making the less obvious passes, and he does feel like
he gets tunnel vision still when he does put the ball on the floor.
But the fact that he you know, he can take him We've seen it
during the playoffs too, like these side dribble jumpers, Like that's huge,
But to have him just be plug and play there someone who's gonna give you,
like this season basically twenty points per game on super above average thirty points
shooting. That's monstrous in large part because of what he does on the other
end, and Marcus Smart's going to be the guy who gets all defense honors.
I feel like people talk about what Tatum does defensively more, maybe because
he breaks up it feels like more plays when he's allowed to do more off
the ball. But Jalen Brown really makes this defense hum it's because of it's
because of him at at least partially that they can play smaller at points since
he will match up against bigger guys and he's he's a pretty good presence on
the glass. The other thing is is that he's going to be the one
that spends collectively the most time against the top options. Like you're you're definitely
going to have Marcus Smart in that conversation, and you know, you can
definitely make a case that he is maybe they're most first tile defender. But
when you look at this, this is per Krishna Narsu of Basketball Index,
be Ball Index. Excuse me, Jalen Brown spent more time on both number
one and number two options than any other player on the Celtics this season.
And that's like when you have that type of defender, I don't know how,
like, yeah, I don't even know how to necessarily quantify that,
but he allows he allows Boston to just do so many different things. And
I'm I'm miss speaking again. He spent the second most amount of time on
number one and number two options because it was Marcus Smart. I was double
checking that because it didn't look right when I was looking at my notes there.
So having someone who can do that while also going up against like the
bigger guys, like those actual fours, where he's going to probably give up
at points, maybe some size, maybe definitely some some pounds. I don't
have a problem with that contract at all. And I think what also helps
is that Boston's in a different position where they're not necessarily even looking for him
to be their number two. They have that with Tatum and Walker. They
can let him settle into that number three, number four role on some nights
if you're going to keep Gordon Hayward around, and the fact that they're paying
him on purpose to be their number three, not that they're paying him to
be their number two, and then he just ends up being you know,
in Evan Formia or something like that on offense I'm talking about. I think
that gives him the luxury to give him that money, and look just what
he does on defense. It's just I think it far and away exceeds perception
of what he does on defense, at least nationally. I'm sure Boston fans
are well aware of how good he is there. Next question comes from I
apologize for mispronouncing this in advance Inoshima, Don Massy. What was the worst
contract Tobias Harris, al Horford, timofey Moskov or Eddie Curry. So,
Eddie Curry just as a Refreshers signed a six years, sixty million dollars deal
with the Knicks in two thousand and five. I think that was a sign
in trade. That was when you go back to the salary cap, that
was a ton of money, and then the sixty years is scary. Timof
ay Moskov signed four years, sixty four million in the summer of twenty and
sixteen. It was the Lakers that gave him that contract. Shout out Mitch,
Mitch Cupcheck and and the and busts. God, well, I didn't
forget his name already already forgot the bus brother's name, but shout out to
them for handing out that that contract. Then you have Tobias Harris who got
five years one eighty this summer, and then Al Hoefer got four years one
hundred and nine, but only ninety seven of it is guaranteed. When you
look at the balance of theirs. Moskovs was technically expiring this year, but
didn't even spend him play in the NBA this year. Debias Harris has like
four years in one hundred and forty two point three or something like that left
on his deal, and then Al Horfer is at three years and eighty one
million dollars sixty nine million guaranteed. This actually wasn't a hard question to answer
for me. It's Timofey moskov just because at least look the Horford and Harris
contracts. If you kept Jimmy Butler, I don't think they Harris contract looks
as bad. And for Horford, like maybe he's worth this money or close
to it, but for a different team. And Harris is one hundred and
forty seven point three, not one hundred and forty two point three over the
next four years and then with Curry. So he signs that deal just before
his age twenty three season, Like, that's not ridiculous to do when he
was coming off sixteen points five boards a game. I think you always definitely
he had his conditioning problems. You knew that he wasn't going to be this
great defender, but it was at least a worthwhile gamble in the sense that
he was young and he was gettable, and so why not give him that
money, Like that contract finished before his age thirty season. That's not it
doesn't make it turned out to be a terrible deal, But that doesn't make
it a terrible investments. Moscov just never showed any sort of volume on the
offensive end, and like he proved to be semi valuable defensively. You know,
you look at the Cavs title in twenty and sixteen what he was able
to do. But just the direction that the league was headed even at that
time, like they were, it was moving away from these more plotting,
lumbering bigs. And so even if you weren't counting on him to give you
anything offensively, which you couldn't, really, you had to at least have
like some zements of thought that this wasn't even Bismack Biumbo when you're looking at
his mobility, like how much of an asset is he going to be to
you defensively, and look at that point he was about to go into his
age thirty season, like he wasn't even that young. So I think it's
Timothy Moskov by far and away. If I had to rank these, I'd
probably go mosgov was the worst. Curry would be the second worst of the
bunch. I go back and forth on the horseor Harris deals when you look
at the situations specifically, the Horford deal was probably more egregious. But Harris
four years in one hundred and forty seven point three million left five and one
eighty for a guy who's probably best suited as your number three, provided your
first two guys aren't essentially non shooters or like you know, An I'm beat
and a Simmons like you need to have another top tier wing or top tier
shot creator next to him. I don't know I'm gonna I will say,
I want to say Harris, and then I want to say Harris's was better
than Horford's. So mos Gobs was the worst of these four then Eddie Curry,
then Horford than Harris. I mean, at least he's still like on
the younger side. That's the other thing that people forget and including myself,
like I look at it too, is Tobias Harris has been on a zillion
teams. Feels like he's been around forever. He just turned twenty eight.
This pastoral live though, So this contract, this is gonna take him like
into his twilight years. The wait is finally over. Football is back.
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one word that online you're online sports book experts. Wrapping up with I think
the final two questions that we're getting into, what kind of oh this comes
from at Galaxy Brain with an E at the end of that, what kind
of money will Boogie Cousins signed for? And where would he be a good
fit? Please say the Nuggets. I could see it. You have Millsap
and Plumbly your free agents this summer. Maybe if you resign Jeremy grand was
a player option as well, and you want him to soak up more backup
five minutes and you go with him and bow Bowl behind Nicole Yokich, that
would be fine. But if you can get Boogie on the cheap, like
having him take on half of plum Lee's minutes and then you experiment more with
bow Bowl and maybe Millstap's back, who knows, But there's room for a
big in Denver's what i'd say, unless you're gonna just all out go into
bow Bowl next year, which I would be kind of surprised if they did
that. You know, Mason plum Lee, Let's just assume he leaves like
he's leaving seventeen minutes a game behind, and so that's not going to be
made up by more Jeremy Grant at the five minutes if they even go there
and Bull Bowl, even if you bring mill Stap back like they would still
be you would think like they could float fifteen minutes around because mill STAPs minutes
shouldn't even really be expanding since he's going to be going into I believe his
age thirty six seasons. So Denver is a potential fit after that, I
could see Dallas if it's cheap enough, because they don't have Dwight Powell and
they do seem reticent to want to build. Christophs Porzingis is a five.
He has his own injuries to deal with, but even in the minutes when
he's not on the court, like they might just need another center. I
don't know how far Bobon gets you. Will they bring Willie calli Stein back.
He was one of the players who opted out of the bubble for them,
and he has a player option for two point three million dollars. Well,
if he picks it up, maybe that makes a big less important for
them to get. Some people float around the fact that he would return to
Golden State. I don't really see that happening. Maybe Houston wanted to have
one big on the roster they were actually gonna play, depending on who they
hire as a head coach, that's a possibility. I thought about maybe the
Los Angeles Clippers, just because a lot of people think Noah might end up
in Chicago now is sort of a mentor for the Billy Donovan higher which quick
comment on that four years, twenty four million dollar deal. I think a
lot of people were puzzled when they looked at him leaving Oklahoma City for Chicago,
and they thought he wanted to be in a more win now situation,
My guests would be a lot of it has to do with the guaranteed years,
where there's a two year extension on the table for the Thunder. He
gets a four year deal from the Bulls, and he might just like their
roster a little bit better because the Thunder's future is like theoretical. Because Dennis
Shrewder, Steven Adams come off the books next year, Gallanar might leave in
free agency this year. They're probably gonna trade Chris Paul. So you have
shake Giljis Alexander, you have lou Dort. Of course, can't forget about
him. And Darius Baisley. But then you're just dealing with all these picks
and so at least you're trafficking in more known quantities. With Chicago, maybe
they're not the best, but if you really like Kobe White and then Zach
Levine is a good tough shot maker, I'm probably better off if he can
be the number two, if not number three, Wendell Carter Junior has to
intrigue. Billy Donovan is sort of this baby Al Horford type player. People
like Larry Marketing and like he can still looks he's a good stretch for I
just don't know that what we've seen him add anymore depth to his offensive bag.
Part of that's on Jim Boylan, for you know, last season was
throwing him too many grenades late in the shock, locking in the post,
and then this year he just didn't feel all that involved. So I do
see the reasoning for Billy Donovan going from Oklahoma City to Chicago. Nice little
tangent there. But with the Clippers, like you know, Patrick Hatterson's probably
con with Michael green Leaves in free agency. He's a player option they have
of eacha Zubots, but Montraz Harrell would be like, kind of the name
I'm looking at here is like, what if he leaves in free agency,
because he definitely costs himself money with his performance in the bubble, there aren't
a ton of teams with cap space. But maybe as Charlotte just comes calling
and it doesn't take that much to get him out of Los Angeles because the
Clippers realize, well, we want to pay Marcus Morris and he's just gonna
give us more positional flexibility, and maybe they have to think about even giving
your Michael Green a little bit of raise should he opt out, So just
Tres become collateral damage of that, and maybe you know, Boogie makes some
sense there. Miami would be kind of interesting, like if you're talking about
and you need to rehab his career, would he be able to, you
know, get through the high conditioning threshold that they set after so many injuries
but having him backup BAM. I don't know if they necessarily need those type
of minutes. But Myers Leonards a free agent this year, and who knows
how much they actually wanted to play if they bring him back next year,
Donna's HASLM doesn't play and it's probably gonna retire, Kelly Olynic could opt out,
probably won't decline his player option, but also you know Kelly Olynic minutes
or their roller Coastery or Touch and Go somewhere along those lines. Other teams
that could use him. Just thinking like really quickly, it gets kind of
tough, like I think I would probably end that there. There's if Portland
is looking for a backup big, but you have Zach Collins and use of
Nurkics there even if his on Whiteside leaves. Would the Toronto Raptors be interested
if you know they lose Marc Gasol and Serge Ibaka and who knows what happens
with Chris Bruche. They still have Pascal siakam at the five arrangements that I
think they should explore more frequently, but they could end up getting it big.
And then there's of course Washington where just he has the ties to the
John Wall and they have Mo Wagner, they have Thomas Bryant, but like
that's not enough. You shouldn't be playing Davis Parton's at center if you're hoping
to get any stops. Now that DeMarcus Cousins will be much better, He'll
still be much better, but he's just he's never been this great defender,
and now when you're looking at you know, the Achilles, the ACL injury,
like that's just going to be tough to come back from. As far
as his cost, I would be shocked if he gets even the taxpayersman level
at this point, which would be a hero over five million. I would
think more on the lines of the bi annual exception wouldn't make sense for him.
Maybe he even ends somewhere if he wants to just play for a concrete
winner like a Clippers team and his promised minutes there that he would sign for
the veterans minimum, trying to reboot his value. But if he gets I'll
be I'll be shocked if he gets more than the taxpayer has been level exception,
and so that basically puts him within range of everybody in the league if
he does fall into into that price point. I believe we have one more
question left. This one comes from Adam Polio. How does pipm work Player
impact plus minus Hero scored lots of points in game FOURM assuming and the eye
test says he's playing well, but the box metrics box metrics mark him as
a negative point four player, which is good for a rookie but not for
a player. Is there a paper describing its method NBA math Adam from will
me, we have nothing to do with player impact plus minus, so I
don't want to riff on it for them. Jacob Goldstein would be the person
to ask about this. What I'll do is, though, like, let's
look at game four against Boston specifically, where Hero just absolutely like goes off.
He has fourteen. He has thirty seven points on fourteen of twenty one
shooting, also added in three assists, and yet he was a four.
So people that are citing this, if they are citing it like minus four
in a three point game is not that big of a deal. Like if
it was minus twelve in a three point game or something like, that's when
you start to get like the red alarm fire. And so what I'm kind
of do is I like to then poke around the lineups that he was in
to see, like maybe where those struggles came from. And so you look
at that with Tyler Hero in game four, he spent the most amount of
time playing with bam Adebayo and then Andre Gadala, and he was a minus
four during his minutes with Andre Gadala. But the thing that stands out to
me is in nineteen minutes with Jay Crowder on the court and Tyler Hero that
he were a minus thirteen. So you start to poke around those lineups and
see, well, like, who who were they kind of playing with and
they spent some time with the you know, the one that stands out to
me here is the Igodala Tyler Hero Jay Crowder combination was a minus nine in
ten minutes. And then at a Baio at a Bio Hero and Crowder was
a minus eight in twelve minutes. And then the Butler Crowder Hero trio minus
eight and fifteen minutes. So some of these trios are being combined together.
And if you look at Heroes most used lineup in Game four, it's Iggy
Drag, Butler, at a Bio and then Hero himself. They were a
plus three and twelve minutes. His second most use lineup was a minus four
in just six minutes that had Robinson, Iggy, Butler, Crowder and Hero
himself in there as well. What I'm basically getting at is I think you
need to dig deeper into the lineups, especially when you're working with a smaller
sample size in the playoffs, and particularly when you're working with a rookie,
those lineups are going to matter. And so when you're looking at the context
of Miami's lineup specifically, you probably need to go back and watch and say,
well, who are these lineups going against when you just look at the
players that were on the court with him, like they're going up against Boston's
starters. And so when the Celtics had a cooking in Game four specifically,
like that would just be a bad time to go on the floor. And
so you can have those sort of finite stretches even if you win, where
you get torched, and that could totally up end a players plus minus,
Like it's so dependent on who they play around to what extent player impact plus
minus is affected by that. I honestly just I honestly don't know. Those
catch on metrics usually try to take into account personnel that's around them, but
I think you have to look at the context of the game more specifically,
and I always just go back to the lineups. Who were they on the
court with, what were the results in some of their most used combinations,
or in this case, were there sort of these more sparingly used ones where
they were just absolutely torched for some reason. That's gonna do it for me
though. Let's you know, as always, please before we get into this
Bucks interview, as always, please remember to rate, review and subscribe to
us wherever you're getting your podcast, download every episode, and whether or not
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please throw us a rating five stars only right review. It helps us out
of town. We appreciate every single one of you. But now let's talk
some Milwaukee Bucks with the euro steps tie winded Ti, Welcome to your first
appearance on the Hardwood Knox Podcast. It's been It's taken me too long to
ask you to come on, so I thank you for gracing me with your
presence and in advance your insight on the Milwaukee Bucks. How are you doing
tonight? I'm great? You know what I think the weight and you know
every day I've woken up thinking is this the day I'm going to get the
Hardwood Knox invite? Is today the day? Hector? The Weight made it
all the sweeter? I'm on cloud nine right now. I'm doing great.
I'm somehow happy to talk Bucks. Even in the Year of Our Lord twenty
twenty, the latter part of it. At least, I'm doing well though
I'm ready to go. Thank you so much for having me. Well,
please, thank you for coming on. I can't confirm that you're the first
person that would ever be excited to come on this podcast, So you are
doing me the favor. And look, let's get right into the bucks here.
So I don't want to like rehash which just happens. I'm too much
with them. But given the way the playoffs ended, like what is just
your gen role impression of this team or maybe how it ended, or you
even you know, maybe more surprised that I know there was some stuff trying
to be drummed up in the media, but it doesn't seem like internally there
was this red alarm fallout necessarily aside from the honest meeting with you know,
the the Upper Brass, which isn't really I would expect that to happen anyway.
Mike Budenholzer was still there. The reports are that he's safe. Are
you at all surprised there wasn't more of a reaction or is this kind of
just what you expected? And maybe you're you are just a little bit numb
to to how the season ended, because it seems like you, looking at
people who cover the Bucks specifically, sort of saw it coming out at least
at the beginning of the second round, if not earlier. Yeah, I
mean, I would say I think I am still very underwhelmed by the Bucks
response to this, and both like from what I've read and like what's been
out there in the Athletic and ESPN and the Milwaukee General Sentinel and all the
other great work what I've heard too, and some conversations, you know,
with some folks regarding Bucks and how their front office and their brain trust is
looking at this. I think I think the team is putting a lot of
stock in like bubble weirdness and in the fact that there were so many things
off, and I know specifically like not having home court is something they look
at a big, big way, Like I think Aaron Rodgers tweeted this,
and he is technically a Bucks minority owner, so this technically is Bucks ownership,
although that's not not this is not all I'm referring to as his tweet,
but he said there's no way they're losing, you know, in five
if they play these games in five servant. Look, are they inherently wrong
about the weirdness probably not being good for them? No, I don't think
they're wrong. I actually did think the break was going to help the Bucks
who were beat up and sputtering heading into it. Clearly it didn't, But
I don't think it's I think it's just too easy and too convenient to hand
wave it and go, no, bud is fine and the roster is largely
final. Though it looks like they're not saying that, and I know we'll
get into that later, but I do think there's a bit too much hand
waving and just saying like, you know, oh, it's the bubble,
because like other teams are performing in the bubble, like Tenver and in LA
and Boston and obviously Miami. You know they were able to come and execute,
and you know, the Bucks are old, but some of these other
rosters are old too. With the level of talent the Bucks have, they
certainly should not have gone what did they go? Five and five in the
bubble like and they obviously lost in the second round. I think it's like
the more I talk about it and think about it, like I'm starting to
get quietly upset over it, just it shouldn't be acceptable. Like I think
there should be some very broad changes, and we might get them still,
but I do think that there's a little bit too much calmness. Although it
sounds like Jannie is working with the Bucks going forward, so maybe they're not
being too too calm, But still I would be a little bit more reactive
and react a little more strongly to this if it was up to me,
because I just think what happened, and I know we don't want to rehash
it entirely, but from a Bucks person, I'll put it plainly. It
was embarrassing and it was a failure, and it's the kind of thing that
you thought they didn't have a chance to do this and maybe keep be honest,
now it seems like maybe they do. You certainly can't do it twice,
so you really you cannot afford on their flame out like this in the
postseason, No, you can't. And I'm I hate criticizing coaches, probably
unless their name was Jim Boylan because like they're just every coach it's just so
much smarter than me and can think and see the game in ways that I
can only dream of thinking and seeing it. But some of what was happening
in the playoff series just seems like too obvious. Like I try not to
unless I'm making a joke, Like I try not to really buy into just
like the you know, the Twitter heard talk, whatever you want to call
it. But it did seem simple at the beginning, you know, before
Jannie's ankle injury, you know, play Middleton and Yannis more and don't ever
let there be a second, a second where both of them are on the
bench most certainly, and stuff like that just feels like these more basics because
those are things that were easily controllable. You know, Look, if Jannis
gets injured regardless, like that gives you a built an excuse. But because
it seems like there were so many things you didn't do before that, you're
kind of suffering the fallout from that. But the other thing I would add
is I don't know that I don't know if you would be a proponent of
getting rid of him. I just don't know where the necessary necessarily the upgrade
is. Maybe you could point to anyone who would say, well, any
coach that's willing to just make you know, shape shift more if you want
to call it that. In the playoffs might being upgrade, but I don't
know that you go out there and any of the free agent coaches, whether
it's you know, a trendy assistant name of first time head coach or one
of the big wigs like a Tyler or Mike D'Antoni, necessarily gets you that
much Further, it seems like this might be more of the way the roster
is built type of thing than necessarily the coaching, even though again I do
think in parts of this playoffs the coaching was definitely a huge problem. Yeah,
I don't disagree. I do think, and this is something that was
pointed out to me because I am still I don't think. I'm at the
point where I really don't think it's going to happen, and less Honest kind
of in his own way suggest it, which I can't honestly see him doing.
I mean, this is something people bring up all the time when there's
kid rumors, and this will be brought up against Bucks fans who rightfully go
that guy is a terrible head coach. They go, well, be honest,
loved him, be honest, didn't when we fired. Be honest,
also loved Larry Drew honest, Also currently loves Mike Budenholzer, Jhannest loved Michael
Carter Williams. The list of people be honest loves on the Bucks it's pretty
much the whole team. I mean, it's the guy gets along with people.
He's extremely loyal. That's just who he is. So I'm worried we're
probably stuck with at least one more year of Bud. I don't think he's
a bad coach. I certainly don't think he's stupid. I do think he's
so and then that trust me, there are people who are the I don't
know if you remember hashtag fire kid on Bucks Twitter, but it was like
everyone had the same abbey and it's spread and every reply to everybody, Yeah,
so it's it's it's Firebud is a thing. Now that the Abbeys are
out there, they've been commissioned that they exist there in the wild. I
think they're going to grow. But I just think there's, like, like
you said, the rigidness, the lack of fluidity. There's such he has
such a firm belief in his system and how well it works, and you
know, playing everybody on the freaking roster who's active every night and not over
taxing Giannis and not you know, just running a bunch of play calls,
but going with this motion offense and everything else. And the issue is,
you know, he was the Coach's poll Coach of the Year and a I
think runner up to the actual Coach of the Year award, and the Bucks
led the regular season and wins again, and all of these things are regular
season accolades because that's where those things pay off the most Hawks. And now
you see it with the Bucks, and we know what happens every year when
Mike Budenholzer goes up against the team slightly less talented or equally talented or more
talented, with a coach who is willing to adapt and coaching the playoffs the
way you know most coaches do. It doesn't go well for the Bucks.
The series starts off and maybe there's a couple punches thrown either way. The
Miami series, we didn't even get that, and then the other team adjusts
and Budd really doesn't, and then you know, you give up four straight
wins and it's it's rough, and that's just how it's gone. So I
do think they need a replacement. I think Tyler would be great. I
think some of the promising assistance would be good. I know some people on
Buck's Land have pointed out like Nick Nurse was a first time head coach,
Steve Kerr was a first time head coach, although he had been in the
front office, and those are maybe pie in the sky, but I do
see the vision and the idea of like it shouldn't be that hard to figure
out how to use this roster, and it's just not being used right well
in the postseason. And I just want to touch on one more thing.
I'm talking a ton. I'm sorry, No, I love it. Keep
going. So there's like there's a little blowback on the Honest. Not only
even say blowback, but Bucks people will tell you and they're not wrong,
They're they're correct. I agree, the Honest does get like really tired.
And I think part of it might be because you know, he plays twenty
nine minutes a game in the regular season and still puts up all these stats.
But whatever, there's maybe it's they if they ramped his minutes up earlier,
he would be able to play forty plus in the playoffs. Right now
he can't. Fine, even so Chris Middleton can Chris Milton's always been able
to. So like Chris not playing forty two to forty four minutes a night
is just foolishness. It's just foolishness. And then obviously it's very easy to
as you mentioned, Stagger, there are minutes. If Chris plays almost the
whole game, just make sure YA plays the other six minutes in your cupboard.
So like, this is not that. And again I don't want to
make it sound like I'm smarter than Mike Budenholzer. I am not. But
this is not that complicated. Like his commitment to doing bud stuff is just
too great and it's not conducive to winning. Fool me once, shame on
you, fool me twice, I don't know. Shame on Bud Like,
I don't know. I just both of my hands are on my head.
Now, this is where we're at in covering this. But yeah, I
do think they should have gone for another coach. But I also think they
have roster issues as well. I don't think it's a magic fixed on which
I think as well. I was going to say when I started this,
but I got side checked by Bud stuff, which happens. The one thing
I'll say here and I do think the Bucks are part of this, the
Clippers might be. The other evidence for me right now is I'm just prepared
more than ever to buy into postseason results compared to regular season, like more
so than I ever would, and not to the point where it's like,
well the Clippers need to trade Paul George now, but where that team clearly
needs, like an infusion of playmaking and infusion of locker room stability. If
it's not going to be Kauai's voice, Like I don't know if a Pat
Bev Lou William slash tres who those guys are gonna want to go eighty two
and oer and they'll know they'll be that loudly, which is great. I
don't know if that's the right fit for those teams. And I think you
could say the same with the Bucks now, and it probably helps that now
we have post seasons is worth of evidence for it. But that's just where
I'm at, where I'm more so prepared, even post bubble. I know
that these are just unprecedented circumstances, and I know that they dealt with the
Jannis injury, but just looking at what's happened between this playoffs and last playoffs.
Yes, it's such a small samples compared to their regular season dominance,
but there's clearly a difference, and it transparently matters now. And it feels
like this roster. You know, you don't get rid of your honest you
don't get rid of Chris Middleton, but it almost feels like anything other than
that should be on the table. This is gonna sound wild to anyone who's
who may have followed me on Twitter or wherever for any amount of time,
because I deeply, deeply love the man's game. If the right offer is
out there, I am not closed to trading Chris Middleton at this point.
No, we're gonna have words. We might have to. I just I
love Chris, I really do, And I think I think it's most likely
that they don't just because I don't think there's going to be an upgrade out
there that is like enough of an upgrade to make it worthwhile. But if
somehow, some way there was like a truly elite player and like especially a
truly elite offense initiator out there, I think you kind of have to do
it. Like, like I said, this is like this, they should
be in a controlled Nick mode, like the circumstances that have gotten them here
are unacceptable. I don't think it should be tenable to mostly run it back,
so and it hurts me to say I would much rather keep him.
And we're talking like players who I don't think will be available, Like if
brad Beal, for whatever reason, is available, but the asking price is
Chris Middleton, I think I go for it at this point, And again
pains me to say that, And I don't think brad Beal is available anyway,
but just like a player who can initiate offense and be that perfect pick
and roll partner with a better handle than Chris, which is really his one
shortcoming, at this point, I would go for it just because I feel
like you're you need to be in that Let's just try something else that might
work mode. I guess if you could tell me Bradley Beale was gonna defend
like he did three or four years ago, maybe I would do that.
I'm just super bullish on Chris Milton. I had him as a top ten
guy this past regular season. That obviously doesn't happen in a normal year,
where Kevan rant stephan Or even pulled George and Joel and be just just play
more and all the points you just make are fair. But I almost feel
like that if there's an issue with him being the number two, part of
it at least stems from the fact of how Jannis can be limited in the
playoffs, and maybe it also relates the other way, where well, Yannis
can be limited because Chris Middleton is his number two, but when Jannie doesn't
even yet have enough counters, even though it seems like he's or it doesn't
seem he's clearly just looking at the numbers in the volume. He's more comfortable
dribbling into threes just when he brings them up the quarter. He has those,
you know, he'll pull up from mid range, or he'll hit these,
he'll shoot these, excuse me, these turnarounds, but there clearly aren't
enough efficient counters for him against defenses to where he's made life easier on the
rest of his teams in a way that you would necessarily expect. And so
it definitely works both ways, but I feel like there does seem to be
a little bit of disconnect in how Chris Middleton is viewed in that number two
discussion, Because if you want, you know, Stephen Curry to be honest
attended couple's number. You want you honest to have a number one as his
number two. Like that's just where I kind of land with it. That's
totally fair, I think, honestly, I think their limitations really hurt each
other in painful ways. Like I think if he honest does have and like
I'll throw a Kawhi out there as an example, I mean, tell us
he's never gonna have Kawai jumper. But if he had some sort of semblance
of true three levels scoring, like you know, thirty percent worse from anywhere
but the rim, but as good as he is now at the rim,
then it probably doesn't matter that much. If Chris Middleton does not have that
elite handle, then it's like, okay, fine, it doesn't matter.
He's just gonna be playing off ball. He's gonna be in that. I
mean, I guess I shouldn't use this it failed so badly, But in
that Paul George sort of role, like he's like catching the ball against a
compromise defense and he can go to work and it's easy for him and he
gets a lot of spot up shots. I think, yeah, he'd be
just fine. But I think the fact that Jannest can't do those things,
or at least like was not comfortable and not able to do those things in
the play else mean that his role becomes so much harder. I mean,
you really you need to find smart ways to post him up, which the
Bucks aren't good at. You need to run him as the roleman and pick
and roll, which the Bucks don't do enough of. And I have a
take on this, but I'm gonna hold on to it for now, or
you need to like just have him charge at five defenders, which is like
the thing he does way way too often and it makes my head hurt.
And it works sometimes because he's honest, but it doesn't work a lot because
it's five guys. And I just think like that's the part where like you
can maximize the honest even as is even without you know, some hopeful of
his own game adaptations that he will make to break down this wall, which
it was disappointing and and a failure on his part that he wasn't more ready
to do this. He doesn't skate through all criticisms that, I mean,
he knew what defenses were going to do until the very early part of the
last game he was not able to sort of counter that, so that that's
a disappointment for him too. He does not escape without blame. But but
like Chris, is not a great pick and roll ball handle. He's good.
The pick and roll with Chris and Honest works well and the Bucks should
use more of it. But he is not like a Kyrie or Beal or
Staff or whoever with the ball like He's not gonna just like completely break down
a defender or like dribble through a lot of traps. He can pull up
from anywhere. He has that in this game, but he just can't get
all over the court comfortably. And if he were able to do that,
then the Honest offt ball it becomes a whole another set of problems. So
I do think their limitations play into each other, which is why what if
a real elite ball handler is available. It's not that I think they're that
much better than Chris, so I think they might be a better fit to
sort of mesh with the Honest a little bit better. I think I can
buy it to that if my biggest client with him has long been like his
game feels like it stalls out before the rim. But if you're gonna factor
in the ball handling as well, then that's not really something that I gave
as much consideration too. This is the question. I'm not sure if you're
tired of answering it yet. You said you weren't when we first talked about
this podcast. But let's start with the short part of it. The honest
is to Max, do you think he's signing it before next season? Yes?
Or no? I actually do now, I actually do, and I
don't think it means a lot of people in Bristol are really upset with his
answer right now. I'm just throwing that out there to you. I totally
get that I don't feel for them at all, but I totally get that
I think he does at this point, just because I think we like clearly
he's not all the way out right, like he already met with the Bucks,
and I think if there was bad news at that visit, I think
we'd have some sort of an idea of it by now. And he plans
to meet with them again after his vacation, which who knows, maybe changed
his mind and he's gone. But it doesn't seem to me like he's out.
It seems to me like and this is his public quotes and the reporting
on this meeting from like a thousand different sources that he wants to work with
the Bucks to improve, and he wants to get better. He wants to
win in Milwaukee at least for one more year. Why I think he resigns.
I don't think he wants those folks in Bristol to have this kind on
ten every single game, every single media availability. He everyone knows, everyone
involved knows there's gonna be so many questions, where are you going, why
haven't you signed? Blah blah blah blah blah blah, It'll be endless.
The Honest hates that stuff. Manhannes is a quiet dude. H Honest's camp
is silent all the time. I remember one time the Honest was on TMZ
and he looks so bothered about the guy following him and asking him questions,
and it was like Bucks Twitter had a field day. We were like,
we're never gonna lose him. No one, No one does that to him
here. People just like quietly gaun at him when he's in restaurants because that's
how Midwesterners do business. So I do think that it would make sense then
on that front, and obviously the Bucks have obvious reason. I don't want
to get this done, so y honest can get all that goes away.
You know, he literally can't be traded for a year. It seems like
he's committed for the long haul the Bucks, they become less interesting, which
kind of works for you, honest. However, I don't think he's going
to say, you know, I for sure I'm going to be a Buck
for the next six years, just based on how poorly they did in this
postseason, how few assets they have going forward. So my idea and I
wrote about this today, what if there's just kind of a quiet understanding between
both sides, like I'm gonna sign it now, I'm gonna get my money
locked up. We're gonna be in a long term deal. But in one
year, two years, if we're not going where I think we should be
going, if I'm not happy, if we're not winning, and that's his
number one thing, he wants to win more than all else, then like,
even with four or five years left on my deal, which this never
happens, but even with all those years left, you're gonna trade me,
Like, just trade me if I want out. We'll work together, we'll
find the right place, like let me get out early. So I think
it would be like a little shady, And I mean, like I don't
know if this is like legal under the CBA, but news flash to anyone
listening. Teams and players don't listen to the CBA, and almost almost all
accounts, no, what you just mentioned is probably one of the least shady
things that could possibly happen this. Yeah. I mean we haven't even got
into like if he's gonna have like shares of ex company or whatever. I
think Dirk worked for the Mavericks when he was a player with the Mavericks,
Like the stuff happens. Stuff happens, folks, they woke. But yeah,
but I could absolutely see that being the case where there's sort of a
mutual understanding that like we're not gonna hardball you and not trade you if you
ask out after a year like between seasons, which I think is how he
would handle it, and the no trade part would expire by the point where
he said he wanted to stay through his current contract anyway. So I just
think that sort of like nod, nod, wink wink. Let's get the
media off our backs. Let's look more attractive to players we want to recruit
and get to play here because you know, maybe a Brad Beale. And
I don't want to keep using that name. I don't want to make it
seem like I think that's possible. But that's just like the example me.
I think that play is a lot more likely to come to Milwaukee if you
honest is under contract for six years as opposed to one, and there's constant
questions about if he's leaving. So I think he signs it very long way
to say, I think he signs it, but I don't know if that
means he's actually going to be a Buck until twenty twenty six. That would
not surprise me if that's a scenario, and we've talked about on this podcast.
He has leverage no matter how many years he has left on his deal.
We just saw Paul George get out of Oklahoma City when he had to
guarantee years could have been three if he picked up that player option. Stars
are going to have leverage in that way. You don't want a disgruntled star
on your team, and if he's under contracts for long term, you can
maximize your value there. So if he comes to you look, if Colinthy
Towns went to the Minnesota Tom Moves tomorrow and said he wants out, maybe
it's a little bit different because he's on just his second contract, but like
Janice is going to be on his third, and so there's just a different
level of clout that you have, and also the team just knowing like,
well, there's only so many different avenues that we can explore at this point,
and so he doesn't lose that leverage by resigning the thing that I said
he should do. And it's been pointed out to me what you just mentioned.
He doesn't really like the speculation, so he wouldn't prefer this. But
if I were honest, I would not sign the Supermax, even if I
was intending to go back to Malau, because then it really just screws with
two of your biggest Eastern Conference competitors in Toronto and Miami, who presumably are
going to remain a little bit in lurch for the next year while they're waiting
for Giannis Is free agency, and so you weaken them a little bit while
still keeping some pressure on the franchise. The other argument I've made is like
you have a bigger hold on what the salary cap is going to be long
term, so maybe you decide to sign a shorter term deal because you know
there's going to be like another huge cat spike and you can get more money
that way. And then also it still keeps pressure on the franchise. People
point it out that then you open yourselves up to what if he gets injured,
YadA, YadA, YadA. Yiannis could suffer the most devastating injury that
you can name, and he's going to get the MAX from Milwaukee next summer
if he waits or whatever next offseason happens. I shouldn't say next summer.
So yeah, I was a proponent of that, but as you pointed out,
and as others have too, he doesn't like the speculation, and so
if you go without the contract, you have that speculation. So my one
question would be, wouldn't that be kind of hysterical though, if that's the
approach that any player ever took, like, let me kind of screw with
these teams that think they have a shot with me. But my real question
is, let's say he doesn't sign it, you're still not trading him,
like you're you're obligated to play next season out right, unless he requests her
out, which, as you've kind of alluded to with the he's not going
to ask for a new head coach, he seems like maybe the least likely
player in the NBA to request the trade. Yeah, and he's the one
thing he's really went to say pub besides supporting his teammates and all that.
The one thing you said is like some people see a wall and go around
it, I want to go through the wall, which unfortunate analogy based on
the way he played in the Semis. But yeah, I don't think he
asks out and I definitely don't think like unless he firmly says like I'm leaving
and I don't even really want to play this year in Milwaukee, Like I
think even if like he's leaning leaving, but he's still and I think you
honest, I just think he's gonna go one hundred percent all the time.
I don't think you can ever trade him unless he makes you trade him.
I don't think there's any like, there's no package to me that's worth it,
no realistic one. I mean, you're not gonna get like Lebron Kauai
k D and Steph and a crazy six team deal. You know you're gonna
get like some fun young guys, some salary filler and some picks, and
it's like, okay, you know you look at like, like, what's
like a team that did really well in quotes like the Pelicans, right,
everyone says the Pelicans did so so well. They got Jackson Hayes. Naw,
naw, I'm not gonna I always feel like I'm gonna get one part
of his name wrong. So Keil Alexander Walker, who is every draft I
as someone who's not a draft expert at zero in on like one or two
players, and he was one of two last drafts. So I apologized to
his career trajectory in advance. That was the first one. So Nikil Alexander
Walker got it for me this draft. It's my one is Maxim. I'm
all in on Maxie, but I might be. I thought it was gonna
be Sadique Bay, but I'm pretty sure it's gonna be Patrick Williams. So
I apologize to Patrick Williams's career in advance as well. Yeah, I was
a big Denzel Valentine guy, so I think I have the same affliction.
But they got so they get naw, they get Jackson Hayes, they get
a guy who I think they're hoping comes from Australia next year, and I
think, like two more picks and a pick swap or two. You know,
does that package give you a better chance to win a title than the
honest to have a kompo for one year? I don't think so. No.
I don't think eight years of Jackson Hayes, naw, seven years of
some guy in Australia and you know, four moderately good to pretty bad picks
is going to get you closer to a title than a two time reigning MVP,
also a reigning MVP slash dpoy. And I think your goal in the
NBA should be to win a championship. I think if you're close, you
just have to go for it. So I think, no, there's no
realistic package out there that can justify moving a guy like Jannis again, unless
he absolutely says trade me, in which case yes, you begrudgingly take all
the picks and bad, flawed young players and whatever else comes. You're like,
that would be the shock though to me, Like, it wouldn't surprise
me if he signs a super massis wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't, it
would surprise me. If he doesn't and then request a trade like that would
be the outcome that really surprises me. Yeah, same here. I don't
think it would make much sense at all. It would be such a sudden
heel turn from him, and I think it would probably be like the one
outcome that could make people immediately dislike. Yeah, I don't even know if
they would. I think some people would probably get it. I mean,
this semis lost pretty damn awful. But after saying I think that he was
so dedicated and everything, if he then turned around and came back from vacation
and got traded like a month or two after that very firm quote, I
think it would be kind of a bad look. I guess it also depends
where it goes. But yeah, I don't see it either. I'd be
pretty surprised. I think I think he's either leaving in twenty twenty one or
I don't know. I guess like I met, like I laid out earlier,
maybe any year after that, and we just won't know. I think
the crux is on the Bucks to remain good. That's what matters. I
think it's good. I'm glad I'm glad that pressure is on them. I
think some front offices maybe need a little bit of a kick in the pants
to not get complacent. And the honest has certainly done that. Yeah,
and look, you live with that if he leaves in twenty twenty one.
I think if you ask the thunder when it happened with Katie in twenty sixteen,
you ask the calves both time, both times, like when they played
it out with Lebron, like you live with it. Because Janice is on
that level of player. There are other players that you don't do it with.
I think, like you know, Paul George might be a good cut
off if you know, like the Pacers, if you know he's gonna leave,
or think he's gonna leave, you know, you get rid of him.
But if it's a Kauai, unless he asked her out like he did
in San Antonio, and then look Jannest Katie Lebron like those ilk of players.
Now, I want to move on here first, and it's gonna seem
like a random pivot, but it sets up what we're gonna talk about,
which you know, but I'm just giving the preface to our listeners. Dante
de Vincenzo. I know johannest is free agency to Donte de Vincenzo. What
a segue. He's there when you look at that roster, he's like their
one potential swing piece or high end trade chip perhaps unless you're looking at one
of their future first if they put it unprotected and and in play. I'm
wondering when we were doing six Men of the Year boots, I had him
third. I would have probably had him higher if he played a little bit
more, but he just did so much for the Bucks, Like his hands
are everywhere on defense, he ran point guard a little bit for them.
He's not really that great of a shooter, but he can move off the
ball. Okay, So I really liked him, But then the bubble comes
around and just to feel like his offense wasn't there. Have your impressions of
him changed it all? Or what is your impression of him? What do
you see his ceiling? As we kind of had a you know, a
behind the scenes discussion about this when I was doing in a fantasy league exercise
for Bleacher Reports app about how some Bucks fans consider him an all star,
which as someone who's high on double D I did not anticipate at all.
But I'm just curious what you view him as, particularly after what happened in
the bubble in the playoffs. So he actually ended the playoffs fairly well.
He was one of their best few players and about the last two games of
the year. And I think that I think what I think what happened?
Why he I mean I said, I said they shouldn't even play him once
the playoffs. He was that bad in the seating games. I can't wait
till that's a term we never to use again for the rest of our lives.
But he was so bad in those seating games that I was like,
don't even put him in the rotation. Of course he played anyway because but
and that's the one thing that worked out. He got it together by the
end of the run. But I think he hit a delayed rookie wall.
And I know he's in his second year, but an injury pretty much took
him out of his first year, and he never played as much as he
got to play this season, and I think the break plus that really caught
up to him. But I'm glad that he kept his sort of his intensity,
which is I think one of the best parts of his game. He
really does. He really plays like he is an all Star, which I
think is why people say that, like he takes some truly audacious shots and
a lot of them missed because he is not that. But I don't mind
that he takes most of the time. But I'm decently high on him.
I would prefer not to move him. I don't like anyone else on the
roster except be honest, I don't look at him as untradeable. I would
prefer not to because, like you said, I mean, he is the
young core. I think like the next youngest player beside him who actually plays
is probably honest. Bucks do not have a lot of draft They blew a
lot of draft picks. Man, pretty brutal if you look at there,
like literally, outside of the honest from twenty thirteen onward, there is not
much there except of course, Malcolm Brogden, who I'm contractually obligated to never
talk about as a member of Bucks twitter as bad. But yeah, I
think Dante is good. I think he's pretty good. I think it's one
of those where as much as you feel like you have to go all in
and through the Bucks on this next year to impress the honest, which is
also I think how they felt about this year. Hope anyway you would Yeah,
maybe maybe not, but you would, you would hope. So maybe
that's how I felt. Maybe that's not how the Bucks felt. You also
have to think about like three years from now, because like again, if
you're terrible around the honest in twenty twenty three, you're probably not going to
keeping that much longer. Like, that's not what he's trying to do.
I mean, he wants to be when it all is said and done,
he wants to be seen as one of the greats. I mean, he
idolized Kobe Bryant. He met with Kobe, he brought a notebook to literally
take notes from Kobe Bryant. And the honest is not a guy who works
out with a lot of people, but he had that much respect for Kobe.
And I think, like if Lebron had recently retired, I think it'd
be the same. I think he just has respect for greatness like that,
And I think he wants to be up there in that pantheon and he knows,
you know, these regular season stuff is great. He knows what you
need to do to be looked at as one of those all time greats.
You gotta win championships, and the Bucks can't fail to do that around him.
So that's why the Dante thing is tough, because as much as like
what if he's the breaking point and trying to outbid Philly for Chris Paul,
who I guess the Bucks might not be interested in, but whatever, Like
do you include him to get that much better next year? But maybe you
lose one of your few guys who saw in a rookie contract and seems promising.
So I would prefer to keep him. I don't think it's a must,
but I think he's good and I think he adds a nice little bit
of aggressiveness to them that they really need. So I would be all for
it if they found a way to keep him, as long as they don't
keep like everybody else too. Yeah, I mean to me, it's just
tough to Chris Paul is a different and I'm obviously going to ask you about
that. He's like a different cacious because he makes so much money that you
know, part of the asset is still as good as he is being willing
to take on his contract. But like if you're going for an actual like
if you're getting Drew Holiday. I don't know we're trying to get him.
I don't know how you even start without including Stefan Cenzo. And I've long
been a proponent of distant first round picks can be really valuable to a franchise.
I've talked about, you know, the Pelicans having the Lakers twenty twenty
four first round pick with the ability to defer till twenty twenty five, Like
that could be. You don't know where Lebron's going to be at in his
career, and yes, she's still Anthony Davis, but who's around him?
Like that could be a really valuable first round pick. However, gms can't
necessarily think that far down the line, not only because of how often the
NBA landscape changes, but because of their lack of job security in general.
And so you know, taking on a pick in two thoury twenty six,
that's not necessarily the smartest move for for your career. And so in the
Bucks's case, then that leaves de Vincenzo. So I would if you're getting
a real player, like I think, you have to give him up unless
you know you're also giving up a you know, you talked about a Chris
Middleton, So maybe there are ways around that, but if you're trying to
keep you honest and Chris, I don't really see how you get a player,
like a high impact player without giving up Dante de Vincenzo in this case,
and like, I feel like your best hope is actually sell him to
another team as this high upside prospect play. Yeah, I think you have
to, and you have to kind of hope they don't look too close to
the fact that he's twenty three already. But yeah, no, I agree
with you. I think that's why that was the appeal of a CP three,
was that he seems gettable without with keeping the powder dry on both Dante
and Chris. And I don't think many players that good, probably any other
players that good are going to be obtainable without losing one or both of those
guys. So I think, yeah, I mean absolutely, if if you
can get Drew Holiday and not give up Chris Middleton for Dante, then I
think you won't. You pretty much have to do it. Like that's one
where I've always said, like, if you can add that third guy without
giving up Chris, then you're really cooking. Then you're really then you really
have something, I think, and so then I think, yeah done,
Trading Dante becomes a lot more palatable. The Bucks, first, by the
way, really just garbage picks that they have to offer. They have the
twenty fourth overall in this weird draft, and then they can't move on until
either twenty twenty four or twenty twenty five, and the way the picks on
the pick that they currently oh Cleveland are set up, it could defer.
So I think like the best they could offer of their own picks is a
twenty twenty four that might have to defer till twenty twenty five based on the
Cleveland draft. And like you pointed out, this is a point I've been
trying to make too folks as well, Like unprotected first after Giannest could be
long gone sounds great. But if you're trading an impact player and all you
have to show for it is a bad late late first rounder in this admittedly
pretty bad draft, someone like Dante DiVincenzo or Eric Bledsoe and a pick that
might not show up for five years, that's very bad for your That's very
bad for your prospects of getting to actually use that pick. I mean,
it's imagine you're watching somebody put up thirty points next to you, honest,
and you've got like a nice prospect and a pick that's going to convey four
years a full election and change from now. It's it's you're not likely.
Gms are not looking at that like salivating openly. It's it's not great for
them to do that. If it was Chris Paul, I think Oklahoma City
could talk to himselves into Witch just because he's only under contract for two years
and so old. But yeah, you also have to think about, you
know, who's actually coming back like that. That's definitely part like going to
the bucks in that scenario. I'll skip around here a bit then, since
we're kind of like already touching upon it. Now the Chris Paul stuff,
where there was the rumor earlier on in the year that he wanted to go
to the hockey his I don't know if you saw like the Twitter video that
he posted after the thunder were eliminated by the Rockets, but it felt final
like he was just gone. Then Billy Donovan, now head coach of the
Bulls, he leaves Oklahoma City, it feels like they're going to enter that
rebuild they were supposed to enter when they traded Paul George and Russell Westbrook.
Now I know they were the report from the Athletic that the sources who with
knowledge of the Bucks thinking don't see them going that route. What do you
sort of make of that? Like, do you believe the thing? Like?
Do you believe that the Bucks aren't really going to look at Chris Paul?
Is that more of a posture play? Because I do think money is
gonna have to come into it there too. Two years and eighty five point
six million dollars a ton of money. He is coming off a second team
All NBA season. But you have to look at it as so we're gonna
have to give up stuff to bring this much money on our books. And
I'm look, players need to get paid. I'm for all the money that
they can get. I'm never gonna try and save billionaires cash. I will
never absolutely do that. But this is just the way teams are going to
think. And so I do think that there's a distinct possibility the Bucks are
like, even if they have the opportunity to get Chris Paul, that they
might just pass on it. Yeah, which is deeply frustrating and I agree
with you on the billionaires part entirely. So the report that they were not
in fact going to pursue Chris Paul, which certainly could be you know,
a little bit of chicanery. It could be a smoke screen or whatever else
because there are probably other teams involved, although it really seems like Philly,
who's like you might have to blurp this, so I apologize in advance.
But it seems like the seventy six ers at every turn find a way to
punch themselves in the dick very aggressively. It feels like they're going to somehow
end up with Russell Westbrook and Ben Simmons and Joel Embreed, which is just
like such a nightmare for whoever they end up having his head coach. But
aside from that, but Philly could get involved like that, They could the
Bucks could be trying to you know, drive down the price or whatever.
Who knows. But what was cited in that Athletic report, I believe that
was Eric name and Sam Yeah, am, I'm not gonna see if I
used to be bad with names, I thought I got better this pod.
People are gonna come away and say he still doesn't know names. I don't
know if someone who has like a borderline speech impediment here, don't do not
Even this podcast started, I always apologized profusely, So don't worry about it.
All right, at least at least I'm in good company or maybe bad
companies. But the the unfortunate thing about Chris Paul is the cost was cited,
and then right after it said Milwaukee was worried about the cost, like
the contract numbers were there, not like anything about assets, but just how
much money he literally costs. And if you look at like the deals that
you know, we've drawn up on Eurostep and every other people have like bled
so Hill and ersan Iliasova get you there in like CBA salary matching, and
then like for the trade to actually make real sense, like probably blood So
goes somewhere else, and like this team sends an asset and something to Oklahoma
City, like there's one where like either the Knicks or the Pistons get Bledsoe
and they send like either I think like Tony Snell or like in the NIXT
case, it's like two bad expirings. You can take your pick and like
some crappy pick or whatever. So they get like a nice point guard who
won't have to worry about the playoffs and who will help raise their floors,
and you know, the thunder get even more stuff and less money on their
books. But but that deal, that main deal is like just looking at
the Milwaukee part Chris Paul, for those three guys, the Bucks take on
nine point seven more million dollars on their books this year, so like it's
salary matching and CBA parlance, but it's not an exact match. So that's
the thing where like that could put them up into the tax this year.
I think it almost certainly would, unless they made some other drastic moves,
which maybe they would. But again, like supposedly the Bucks just affirmed the
Eyes that they're fine with paying the tax. But then like basically at the
same time, we're getting this report that Chris Paul's too expensive. So I
don't know, I don't get it. I think he is if you don't
have to give up any real future assets, Like if you can get it
done, I don't know if you can. If you can get it done
for like a few second round picks, and those guys, I just don't
see how you don't do it it seems like such a low cost gamble to
make, especially considering how useless Bloods was in the playoffs, and George Hill
was low key bad in the playoffs this year as well. I think you
kind of have to go for it. But frustratingly, it does sound like
they're not as interested in that, which, again I don't know where else
the path to improvement is necessarily, especially on that level, but that's where
it sounds like the blocks are at, unless it's a smokescreen, which fingers
crossed. Yeah, look, so I'll gladly spend the billionaire's money you get
Chris Paul. I think a bigger issue for me, and this would be
the valid concern, is that a lot of people have said that it's like
sort of easy to build the framework of a deal with Okaysey and I tend
to disagree, because if you're giving up, let's say it's Bledso Lopez and
George Hill, like those are three as bad as Hill, and its particularly
Bledso the past three playoffs have like were this past postseason, there are three
major players for you, and so Chris Paul's thirty five, he might be
an upgrade if you're giving up two of them, but like he's not soaking
up all those minutes, maybe you believe that you can approximate the value of
Brook Lopez a little bit better just because of how centers are used on the
cheap and free agency. I don't know that I'm not a big fan of
how Rolo's deal is going to age, but I also think for what he
does for you defensively now and then combined with his three point volume, not
necessarily always his efficiency unless he's in Disney World apparently this year, I don't
know that I would buy into that, And so to me it becomes a
matter of can you build a deal where you're sort of it's a poop poop
ladder, where it's you know, it's Eric Bledsoe, there's Erson Aliasova,
There's Robin Lopez, assuming he picks up his player option, there's DJ Wilson,
And that money gets you there to being able to take back Chris Paul.
What can you sweeten it with? And I think one of the biggest
ones, like you know, Dante DiVincenzo obviously, but now you get into
a situation where it's five for one. The roster spot game is too difficult,
and if you're Okay, see, unless you believe that you can flip
some of those guys, the fact that they're not of immediate use to you,
especially Bletso who has two more guaranteed years left on his contract, that
becomes a hang up. And so one of the biggest sugar coatings that you
could add to this, let's say, would be, can you reroute Eric
Bletso somewhere to either into someone's cap space or for an actual asset and a
team that I've you know, you name some teams, but another team I've
come back to they have the most cap space in the NBA. Atlanta feels
like they could use and Eric Bletso to play alongside a Trey Young. You
have someone automatically, you can just cover every other team's opposing point guard and
then even shooting guards if there's an opportunity to stash Tray out of point guard,
which you feel like they're almost never is. I don't know if they
would need something to do that because they're kind of building up the bucks in
the process. I don't know if they would give up. They're not going
to give up one of their your own wins for him. But that's just
a suggestion. I have. If you can build something like that, that
should be the goal. And if you're worried about giving up three of your
most used players during the regular season for Chris Paul, I actually understand that
stands. The money is just something I won't like. It's insofar as it's
ever excuse and if you have a contender, it's never going to be for
me. But this is Jannie's for now contract year, like, it's just
it's and even if it's not, if he's signing the supermacs, that's a
vote of faith in you. And you're obligated to just leap into the tax
this season. And so that's really the only if you're trying, if you
have to give up Bletso Lopez, George Hill for Chris Paul, that's the
one that would give me pause. Yeah, I mean, I think if
you can do it like the Sunbucks fans. Actually, this is just a
side note in our euro Group discord for the listeners of the euro Step.
One idea that's been circuling that I find actually kind of intriguing is like if
Houston is tearing down and bringing in a new coach, who might actually want
a center, Like if you can get the Chris Paul deal done without trading
Brook Lopez. Maybe you swing Lopez over to Houston and pick up like some
wing help from them, whether it's a Covington or maybe you buy really low
on Eric Gordon or something like that, which I think that is interesting too,
just to stock up the wings and kind of get more depth, Like
I think today I looked at like Eric Gordon and Ben McLamore would work.
I think McLamore is expiring next year, so something like that, just to
talk about the depth a little bit. I agree, these like three four
or five for one deals get super super tricky. But I think like if
you can do like bledsow Hill, maybe even that indie first maybe maybe Okay
see has some interest in that, who knows, but Bledsoe hill Erson who
Erson is like out of the rotation. So you basically consolidate your two Okay
point guards into one very good point guard, especially in the playoffs, for
the cost of a pick and Urson salary, then I think that becomes definitely
a no brainer. And again I don't know if it's that easy or not,
but if, like I don't think Atlanta might have a bad first coming
in in order. Detroit doesn't. But they have like all their seconds,
even if okay Se can like facilitate Bloodsta somewhere for like two seconds, even
if they're sort of protected. Like what bad team really I think Eric bledsoll
is looked at now is this big negative asset. I don't think that's true.
I think a GM of a team like that who was like they would
like to win some games and keep their jobs. As we already mentioned,
this dynamic people tend to overlook a lot, like we can just get Eric
Bledsoe for bad seconds. He might be a top fifty regular season player,
which is a really good player, All Defense, second team All Defense this
year. Like he can play, and he's gonna he's gonna help raise your
floor a bit, especially for some of these teams. I mean, he's
not like a great distributor, but he can pass a little bit. He
can certainly play like with a ball dominant guy, Like if the Bulls didn't
have Kobe White, I think he'd be a good lavine fit. Maybe they'll
get rid of lavine and he can play next to Kobe White. But like
these bad teams who need defense and really want to win at least a little
bit. I think Blood so makes a lot of sense. I think you're
gonna find like, I don't think that's going to be an impediment to the
deal. I do think personally, I think the Bucks would be able to
get it done. I think Okay s would like to send Chris Paul to
somewhere he wants to go, like Milwaukee. I think OKAYC likes being looked
at as one of those franchises to kind of make people forget the whole Hardened
thing. But yeah, I don't know if really, if it comes down
to it, and like Chris Paul gets traded for nothing but salary filler,
and it's pretty obvious the Bucks could have gotten in there, it will be
like the latest and probably most disappointing chapter and the Bucks did something for X
reason that also happened to save them quite a bit of money. That is
something I did not consider that if Chris Paul gets sent somewhere for like a
reasonable asking price that the Bucks like could have met without really feeling it,
that the optics on that would be absolutely terrible. Like if like if it's
like a somehow like the like Okay, see, I don't think this would
happen. Here's the example i'd give you. Not to interject, but like
if Philly gets him while giving up Al Horford, like the Buck's done fucked
up somewhere. Probably yep, No, absolutely, I was thinking Tobias at
first, but I get but I think Tobias, like, I think Tobias
can play, Honestly, Like, if Tobias got rerouted to the Bucks somehow,
I probably wouldn't hate it. I don't think there's any way. And
and him, like I think he can play. I think he's fine.
He's just not a max thirty million dollars a year guy. He's like a
seventeen point per game guy, and that's fine. There's something against him,
but they just saw him as something else for whatever reason. But yeah,
the Horford, like if it's Horford and like who's the stretch for? Why
am I blanking on his name? Whoever? If it's Horford and stuff,
Horford one of the words from Philly like Mike Scott or something that I was
gonna say Mike Evans, I was like, it's a football. But yeah,
if it's like Mike Scott and Horford and no picks, then yeah,
I mean I think like the Deer district might just be engulfed in flames after
that. Have you given thought to any other trade targets that you could see
or you think the Bucks should pursue. There's actually another okay see point guard
who I am interested in, and I think, again, I have no
idea what asking prices are going to be or if they would even want to
move this player. Dann Shrewder really impressed me in the playoffs, and he's
a little bit younger. I think he's twenty seven. I think he's expiring
this next season. I'm like fourteen and fifteen million per Again, I feel
like, okay, C is kind of in a place where it's just like,
we'll take all your picks and you can have these players if he's gettable
for like Bledsoe and stuff, which again probably not, but who knows.
I would like that. I think like the real desperation play, like I
mentioned earlier, I think any team could probably get Aaron or Eric Gordon excuse
me for basically like nothing right now from the Rockets. I just I don't
think like they signed this really big extension and then just played really really poorly.
You could try to roll the dice and saying, you know, we're
gonna buy low we think he's the player he has been in the past.
That's like your desperation option. I throughout some other I throughout some names that
really made Bucks Twitter upset. Now I feel like I'm basically you just look
at like the list of like who's either like I'm a bad team that doesn't
really mind being bad for a year or two, or who is like just
grossly overpaid, and those are pretty much the guys, because again, the
Bucks cabinet in terms of assets is pretty bare. I mean, like Drew
Holiday would be great. I wouldn't want to give up Chris Middleton to do
it. I don't think he's enough of upgrade, and I don't know if
they can get him without doing that. You also run into the I don't
know how many teams are going to think like this, but some of them
aren't gonna want to help out the Bucks if they think is still in play.
Lowry would be awesome, but I don't think there's any way that the
Raptors ever unless it's for you. Honest, I don't think the Raptors are
going to trade Kyle Lowry to the Milwaukee Bucks. And this is something I
floated before this year because I remember there was this I feel stupid now for
saying it, but there was some thought they might just tear it down and
said they just decided to be very good, which I think more teams should
decide to do that. But I remember floating on Twitter like, oh man,
if they tear it down, I won if the Bucks could get Lowry
and Anthony Doyle. Of course, on a Kyle Lowry and Jannie related issues
slides in immediately and goes I don't think the Raptors are going to try and
help out the Bucks. I was like, you know what fair points So
yeah, like Miami, Dallas, Toronto, et cetera. Maybe the Lakers,
the Warriors. I don't think they're going to be jumping out of their
seats to say, here, this will help you contend and keep you honest
forever. I am. I'm with you on that one. I have I
have three names for you, and they rain from super ambitious to medium ambitious
to on the lower end. So I'll start from the bottom work my way
up. I don't really know what's going on in Chicago after the Billy Donovan
higher that seems like maybe like they might have more immediate ambitions than I thought.
But a And didn't have the best year. But I'm inclined to also
blame that a little bit on bulls being the bulls. But Thomas had Ranski
feels like someone who might be able to help them. When you look at
the playoffs, you know, at first of all you're gonna say, like,
your low end was Zach Lavina. I was like, oh, my
goodness, and you're an eternal optimist. Yeah, sad, it would be
fine. It's one of those where, like, you know, I almost
feel bad because I've liked Saddle for a while. I think he's a good
player. I think if like, if that's the guy you get after this
horrible like you don't make a coaching change, well, the player you bring
in his saddle, that's tough. But I do, like, I think
he could be a certainly illogical target, especially if they end up drafting and
get another guard. Yeah. My thought process there was like, if you
that's someone maybe you could get for your salary filler that doesn't include bloods,
and then like picks like it's I probably wouldn't give up a first end,
but if it's a second or if you could, you know, if they
really like DJ Wilson for some reason, so that you keep The idea would
be to keep Letzo Middleton and Jannis Hill and Lopez and then add a Saddo
the other name even or even like if you trade everybody else, like bring
him in as like a rotation guy. Okay, No, I like that.
I like that. I would give up two seconds for Sato, the
medium guy that I had suggested he might be on the ambitious end, just
given how important he is to his team right now. But DeVante Graham,
knowing that he's gonna hit twenty twenty one free agency, if Charlotte feels like
they can capitalize on his value, and in that scenario, you're probably giving
up a pick and prospect or two picks. But just what he can do
off the dribble, how defense has clapped around him in Charlotte, I would
be a big fan of him. In Milwaukee, I would too. I
assume I just feel like Charlotte wouldn't give him up. But I also I
guess i'd put the thought the same with Kemba Walker. So maybe maybe maybe
there's a chance that I would. That would be a lot of fun.
I think his game has some holes, but his pull up three point shooting,
if it's sustainable. Bit the way, if you're the Bucks, you
kind of have to rull your dice on ifs right now, it would be
great with the honest I just remember the name that made Bucks Twitter hate me,
his teammate and backcourt mate, Terry Rogier, who feels eminently available and
who quietly hit forty percent of his threes this year. But he's always kind
of been like a good off ball player too, And so if you put
I don't know if he's what like, I feel like he might give you
less off the dribble creation than Sato, which is been an issue. But
if you're just looking for pure spacing where I don't know that you know,
if you want to give up Eric Bletzo for him, if you're that loan
in his contract, sure, but if you can replace like some of the
Eric Bletze minutes, he gives you another half court outlet. For sure.
He would definitely help Milwaukee. Yeah, I'd like basically def to throw him
in the West Matthews role. He's not going to run thirty pick and rolls
a game with anybody, but he can spot up a bit and cut and
create off the ball. Yeah, it's but they wouldn't hate that either.
But again, I really hope the Bucks aren't touting Terry Rogier is their big
addition. But DeVante Graham that would be that would be more intriguing, be
more ambitious one. And I actually you mentioned zackly like, I don't know
what you if, like it's Dante di Vincenzo and a future pick, like
if they're willing to sell that low on like if they like maybe Chicago just
because it's a new front office regime and they're like, well, you know,
we're gonna be here like for at least four years or something like,
maybe we have interest in an incredibly loosely protected pick in twenty twenty four or
twenty with the option to defer to twenty twenty five or something like that,
And maybe you could suss out a third team. Again, it might send
something to them for Feric Butzo zak Lavine wouldn't be a bad fit in Milwaukee.
But the name is plural that I was thinking of is can you latch
on as a third team in a deal where Brooklyn's trying to get its third
star? Because I actually think Brooklyn has some really attractive trade packages. But
if you're going after I don't know who the guy is. If it's in
you know, if it's a Bradby Beal, you would think that the Washington
wants to get younger than a Lavert and a Dinwoody. So can Milwaukee kind
of joined that deal to send stuff to a Washington or whatever team Brooklyn's dealing
with where they're gonna end up getting back Lavert or even Spencer Dinwoody because those
two players help them agree eight deal. Another name that that's gonna go after
is Oladipo. I'm sure the Pacers would probably be more okay with Lavert and
or Dinwoody in that situation. So I'm not necessarily sure what the third star
would be that Brooklyn is targeting, but that might be a deal to join
because the Bucks can offer picks Dante DiVincenzo to the team that's giving up a
higher and like maybe it's Orlando. If if Brooklyn is like really high on
Aaron Gordon and they're giving up Spencer Dinwoody, either of those two players,
whether it's Lavert or Dimwity, would just be fantastic gets for Milwaukee. It
probably would require them unloading the clip of cost control the assets that they have
at their disposal, though, I would unload the clip for both of those
guys, which I don't know if that's feasible, but like Dinwoody and Lavert
just seems totally. That seems all of a sudden and I assuming that you're
keeping Chris as well. Yeah, and it was like, whichever one of
them you can get, because you obviously don't have enough stuff to get both,
but whatever one you can get, I think it's just an instant fit.
Yeah, I do as well. I'm like Lavert shooting a little bit
concerns me from three, but there is a lot of upside there. I
think Denwoody is just good. I think, like again, not probably a
splashy, but a much much better fit at the point guard position. And
maybe, I mean, he's taken leaps before from you know, a fringe
NBA player to a solid starter. Maybe in this perfect situation for him,
he'd be set up to take another leap. He can you know, his
crypto and his game will take off at the same time. See. But
like, definitely din Witty, I think I would like dinn Witty or Lavert.
I would I think Laverte is probably seen as the more attractive. I'm
almost more inclined to give up the clip for Dinwoody and definitely like Chicago,
take your pick of anything besides Chris and be honest that that we have available
for Lavine. I mean that like Lavine Chris and the honest would just be
incredible. But I don't know if that's possible. You never know. Yeah,
that's definitely on the ambitious end of the spectrum. And I think I
agree with you that dim what He's probably just more scalable than Lavert. He's
one of those guys that feels like he's gonna hit like or feel more comfortable,
you know, pulling up from three off the dribble than rather spotting up,
which could be the issue there. Sort of moving on though here.
So one of the things that's probably not being talked about enough, at least
nationally is the Bucks have a ton of free agents themselves, and so looking
at Sterling Brown, restricted free agent Pat Connaughton, Robin Lopez has a player
option which I think he would exercise. There's Kyle Korver, Wesley Matthews has
a player option, who do you see leaving, who do you see coming
back? Is there at least one of those guys that you can identify as
must keep from Milwaukee, because it does seem like, yeah, they need
to try and improve the roster, but at least to some degree, they
do have to take care of their own because at least I'm looking at West
Matthews as the guy for me that I'm like, well, he needs to
come back. No, you you took the words right out of my mouth
there with West Matthews. I think he needs to be out of this corps
of players the number one priority. I know from some talking to some folks
around the league. I don't like saying league sources. I like saying folks
around the league. From talking to some folks around the league, I know
the Bucks are interested in keeping him. I don't know if they necessarily have
the best idea of what he's going to do. They can't go over the
cap to keep him without burning one of their cap exceptions. I believe they
have the bi annual and the mid level. I don't know if they would
use the mid level for a West. I guess we'll see how the rest
of free agency shakes out. I don't know if he would want to take
another vetman or not. Maybe another one and one that keeps some flexibility and
then kind of sign a nod nod, a nudge, nudge, wink wink
deal two years from now and the Bucks have his early bird rights. Basically,
just tell him, you know, no matter what, if you want
to come back again, we'll sign you for a little, probably more than
your market. Is a thirty six year old swing man off of acl I
believe, or an Achilles, I believe. But yeah, I think he
needs to be the first priority. I think he got to figure it out
whether he's your fifth starter on a more loaded starting five or your best bench
wing. I just think he should be a priority. His defense, he
was deserving of the one or two or whatever votes Chris Middleton got for all
defense. I think I put him on my fake ballot just to give him
the nod, But I think he should have gotten a voted to he was
that good. He defended the best wing players the Bucks page. He definitely
should have gotten more fourth quarter minutes of playoffs. Do you know what's funny
is that's so tied to one of their other big issues of like you know,
you could say, oh, Chris couldn't play more minutes and some of
these games because of foul trouble. He picked up so many fouls, and
I think it was like Game one in three or Game one and four because
he was guarding Jimmy Butler the whole fourth quarter, and Jimmy Butler had his
two best quarters of the playoffs going against Chris and not Wes Matthews, who
did tremendous on him. So it would have worked out better for literally everything
if if Wes played those minutes. But well, so, I think,
honestly, like my initial thoughts for like an off season plan for the Bucks
right after Game five was like, get the new coach in there, which
I don't know if that's happening now, and sit down with West and say,
listen, we're actually gonna play you in fourth quarters this time. Don't
worry. So maybe he's less inclined to come back. Who knows, I
don't. I don't have any insight there, but I think he's the priority.
I think Sterling Brown's gonna leave, and I think the Bucks are gonna
be fine with that. There's not like bad Blood. They just never really
played him consistently and they didn't send him to Oshkosh to play with the Herd
consistently. I mean, I think really like kind of a failure on the
Bucks part of and maybe these guys just aren't any good. Him and DJ
Wilson, the two in particular, I think they both have a chance to
be like rotational wing players in different ways, but they just have never played.
They just have not gotten rep So I think he's gonna go somewhere else
and look for minutes. I think Pat Condident is going to be in the
Delhi situation where like, if there's nothing really there, he probably comes back.
But if some team for whatever reason, Saucelan they liked and offered him
like eight million dollars a year, you're honest, is gonna send one of
those Lebron tweets like the minute the offer sheet is first signed, when the
Bucks could still match and just be like have fun, Pat, good luck.
I don't even know if he might not be restricted, but if he
gets an offer, I don't think the Bucks will go and pay him.
But I could be wrong. Yeah, I don't think any but yeah that's
like I don't I don't think you look at him and like, oh,
we need to have him back. I would hope not. I mean,
the Bucks like playing a lot, but I don't think he's intrigled to what
they do and anything like that. So I think, yeah, I think
if somebody pays him, he's gone. Otherwise, sure, I mean bringing
back is the eleventh guy. That's fine. Robin Lopez, I can't tell.
I don't know how he feels about not really playing in the playoffs at
all. Probably not great. But who knows. He's leaving him five million
though, would be my counter even if he wants to leave. Yeah,
And it's a deep center class. I mean, I've got rankings for all
the positions, and like there's a lot of centers who I think are gonna
end up making vet men like I did, Like I give them on numbers.
So I had Robin Lopez as the fourteenth best center. Like nineteenth is
a guy like John Henson. Twenty sixth is like Jan Mahimi who's like not
exciting, but like an NBA player like Bismack Biombos. In the twenties,
there's a lot of centers hitting free agency. It's like the twenty sixteen centers
coming off those contracts. There's a lot of them. Man, Hassan Whiteside's
getting out here, Tristan Thompson's getting out here, big money, big money
guys, and they're not gonna get that again. But I think he might
just opt in just for that reason, although he could just be trade collateral.
Did I miss anybody? There's Kyle Korver, which he might be a
retirement candidate at this point too. Yeah, he's either going to retire or
Bud's gonna play him way way too often. Whatever, he will be starting
at the two spot from oh please don't speak that in the universe. Uh.
This is so kind of two questions rolled into one because obviously we all
know what the Bucks could really use. And there's like if they're gonna let
other free agents walk, I think, like you know, their their wing
depth after Janie and Chris Middleton has never actually been too great, which is
something that I don't think he's been talked about enough they should have. Like
the math on them is really tight. Like if you assume that they bring
back Urson Eliasova, and maybe they don't, but Robin Lopez exercised this player
option even if you just pencil in Wesley Wesley Matthews's player option, the number
twenty four, pick hold and then just cancel everybody else. Like they are
like basically right up against the tax, like they have wiggle room under it.
But it's like I have them at sub two million if we're using this
year's cat projections into next year, and so that should give them the flexibility
necessary to spend the entire big mL E while staying under the apron. But
you still have to go into the tax. And so we know that Mark
Lasbery said that they'll go into the tax. One, are you buying that?
Like, do you think that actually happens? And then two, based
off what you think there are there any free agents that you're looking at in
that mL E range that you really would like to see Milwaukee go after.
I'll believe it when I see it at this point, I mean, I
mean definitely where I'm at with you. Yeah, excuse me, Yeah,
I mean it's just like we've heard all this talk and the Bucks have been
steadfast like when the time is right, which I mean sometimes they've it's sounded
more like when Jannie's extension actually kicks in, which wouldn't be for a whole
nothering here but like, when the time is right, we will totally do
it. But then, like you know, I think Malcolm Brogden would have
helped more in the bubble than a twenty twenty bad first and two future seconds.
But we are where we are, and like you know, I think
some of these players the Bucks could have acquired. I mean we stirred,
you know, okay, see was shopping Danilo Gallinari and he didn't completely deal
with the heat or they didn't complete to deal with the heat because he wouldn't
sign an extension, so he was available if you would guarantee him more years.
The Bucks are the one team in the league not looking to clear cap
space for twenty twenty one to sign the honest maybe they could have gotten in
there, but I'm sure it would have required taking on some extra money because
Gallinari is very well paid and future money. And also I mean they didn't
want to disrupt as much mid season, which sure, but also that I
mean, there's like all these moves, I mean, you even look at
you want to get real minuscule. I know you do. I do.
I'm here for so Sterling Brown hitting free agency, thus an expiring contract this
year, the Bucks knew they could sign Marvin Williams as a buyout guy for
of course a scaled minimum, which is standard. I mean, there's nothing
nothing about that this first play. So they could have just cut Sterling Brown,
who never plays and never plays in Oshkosh and does not figure to be
a part of the team's long term future, and eat his cap hit of
four million whatever. It is not very much not very much money, and
he's a second round pick on the last year of his rookie deal. Instead,
they cut Dragon Bender, who, and this will sound completely inconsequential,
Dragon Beender is like for the first time in his career learning how to play
center with the Wisconsin Herd as a fifteenth guy in the Bucks roster. Like
kind of like the very blurry poor Man's Like you can see the outlines of
a Brook Lopez kind of player, like a big guy who can go vertical,
who can definitely shoot threes. He hit him both in Oshkosh and in
Milwaukee last year, and like everybody was excited about the way he was playing,
like he was actually coming along and learning the center skills. It still
followed too much, but like he was looking promising. It was looking like
the Bucks that found another young, good big man like Christian Wood. They
cut Dragonbender because his contract wasn't guaranteed, so it'd save like two or three
million dollars to cut dragon Bender and not stealing Brown selling. Brown goes on
to have one of the worst seeding game runs of any possible player because they
were down a few guys need to play point guard. He just couldn't do
it, and then he didn't play at all in the games that mattered,
and now he will leave. So very small thing, but it's like one
of those things where at every possible turn, like the thing that has saved
money is just so happened to be the thing that was done, and this
year now it doesn't happen yet. But what we've seen from Chris Paul,
the stumbling block is his dollar amount, which is more of an issue for
like the back end the financials than it is for actually the team building in
some ways. I mean, it's kind of an issue for both, but
the way it was reported, so I think it was intentional. The literal
cost of him, which I don't think should be that much of a factor,
so I'll believe it when I see it. In terms of options,
I don't know. I don't know who's going to be available. I feel
like it's going to be a very weird summer. I know one guy that
sort of like indie Bucks Twitter is all about is DJ Augustine. Well.
I think it's like a good point guard. I think he could be available
if the Magic want to shift to more markl faults. I think like there's
a few There's not a ton of good guard titting free agency, but there's
like enough where I think he could fly under the radar. Malik Beasley.
I think it's probably going to be too expensive for an MLI, but if
he wants to go to a really good team, that would probably give him
a good amount of touches. I would love that. I think he's going
to be too expensive. I think he's legit good and probably not leaving Minnesota,
but that would be a lot of fun. In terms of forwards,
I'm not really sure. Like I've had Dario Sarich ambitions for a while,
but that position just feels so low on their list of needs. Paying Jay
Crowder would be such a Bucks thing after he torts them, but I don't
even think that'll happen. But if they did, I don't know if I
would particularly look forward to it, because again sort of a need but not
really And I could just totally see him shooting like twenty four percent from deep
and next year that just feels like a super bad Bucks to move what who
knows. I feel like he and Rogics are going to get like record one
year deals from the Heat as they plan for twenty twenty one free agency.
But if you give Jake Garantchee Jay Crowder four years at the mL E and
Miami's not offering him a long longer term deal than one year, like maybe
that gets him. I actually would like him for the Bucks because he does
fancy himself like someone who could do stuff off the dribble, but like those
are that's just like an adventure that maybe they don't have the bandwidth for on
offense. And the guy, the other guy you mentioned drag like, I
don't think he's attainable for that, which is why I didn't. I didn't
even think about him for the Bucks just because they have him Bloozell already and
I know Dradgers would help, but he I can't imagine if he's available at
the MLLE of course, but now at this point, I feel like he's
priced himself out of that range. Yeah, I agree as well. And
then there's like a bunch of player option guys like Mike Conley, DeMar Derozen,
Tim Hardaway Junior, even Fournier. I think they all probably opt in
and this weird, weird ass year, and if they don't, I don't
think they signed for the mL E. I've almost talked myself into trading for
DeMar Derozen just because don't care. Yeah, we're here, We're here here.
I did say almost, But I don't think they're gonna be able to
sign anybody like that. See, so the names that I even think of,
so Evan Fournie was my highest end one. I'd also kicked around Sarhich
as well. But it's like you said, I don't know that he that
He definitely did more from a creation perspective when he was coming off the bench
with Phoenix in the bubble, But just positionally, I just feel like he's
he's best off at the four and that's clearly not what the Bucks need.
You could think lower end Justin Holliday would be a great fit basically everywhere.
He played a lot of backup four for Indiana this year, but he can
play the two and the three as well, and then not someone you could
look at to create, but he'll hit threes in transition, and and he'll
hit spot up threes and they half court as well. And Alec Burks if
you're looking for some like lower end guy who could create his own shot.
But Evan Fournier, if you were trying to aim a little bit higher,
should he opt out because he wants to play the longer term game like Orlando
might be a team that's willing to talk signing trade scenarios with you, which
of course hardcap you at that point, but maybe the Bucks prefer that because
it gives them like a built an excuse. But anyway, so I don't
know what you would have to give up, but maybe that's something that they
would consider, because he would be in triguing Milwaukee because all of a sudden,
he's like something like their third or fourth option, which is probably the
role that he's best suited for as opposed to the pseudo number one, number
two that he's been in Orlando for so long. Yeah, I'm a little
worried, like if somehow you swap bloeds and stuff, for him because he's
been kind of a playoff pumpkin performer as well. But I do like if
you can get him for a minimal cost, I think it's a good gamble
and probably one of the best ones you'd be able to take. Yeah,
my thoughts were like expirings and like maybe the indie first or something like if
that, if Orlando is just gonna lose him and Jonathan Isaac isn't playing next
year, umao Keke is gonna be like his you know, the red shirt
year that he's coming off or from his injury. Maybe they're kind of leaning
towards the rebuild a little bit. I don't know, but if they're willing
to do something like that where oh we gotta pick for him, that would
be intriguing to me if I'm Milwaukee. Not a no brainer though for them,
but just something that if you were trying to be aggressive, it definitely
has the potential backfire. As you mentioned, Hey, I think that'd be
like the first up your sleeve deal, right like you you take it,
you say, okay, we'll think about this. You look around for like
some real home run swings, but that's probably the first one you go back
to. If nothing else ends up materializing. I liked that idea a lot.
Uh, the last thing I'll ask you, I've kept you longer than
I anticipated. But what's the most undercovered thing about this team? Misunderstood thing
about this team? Is there something that I didn't ask? Do you want
to talk about? We already really got on the Chris Middleton soapbox, and
I am sad to say that I was there alone. Apparently, Oh I
had him miss second Team All NBA this year. Let's so you had one
foot on the Chris Middleton soapbox. Who should have been third Team All NBA.
I thought, I know a lot of the way that players are eligible
positionally, but there are still a way to finagle it. Where he was
on instead of Russell Westbrook when you look at where players are eligible. That
surprised me a little bit. But that's that's a that's a different conversation.
We could do a whole podcast on just this one issue. Like Chris Midlton
literally got guard votes and forward votes and had more total votes than either of
the third team guards. But I guess because he didn't have more guard votes
than players who were only eligible already missed out that seems like a very a
very broken way to do it and not like not actually helping with your rethinking
of positions League office. So work on that one. And really I'm only
fired up because, like I don't know how many more shots I mean you
said, like you mentioned you've covered, You've done terrific for knowing the bucks
on this podcast. There's so many guys out this year that it's like a
lot easier to call someone top ten. I don't know how many all NBA
chances Chris Middleton will have. This may have been his best shot. I
would have really liked for him to have gotten one of them. But regardless,
one under the radar thing. And I think this is something I've thought
about more and more and more as we went through the bubble. So like
people, and this is something I think Sam is Fandari first brought this up
to me as a question. I've thought about it ever since. Sam's a
brilliant man. What position is he honest? Right? Like? Is he
honest a big or is honest a big wing? Like is he a big
who doos wing stuff for a wing and does big stuff? And at first
I kind of was like this, does it really matter? Like who cares
skill sets or skill sets, But I do think there's something to the idea
of like the Bucks need to probably find a way to make him play like
a big more unless he does suddenly develop this three level scoring. Maybe maybe
this becomes a non issue by next season. I don't think that will be
the case. I'm a Wisconsin sports fan. We're not taught to believe in
the unbelievable, at least the unbelievable good. But like so, if he's
largely the same player, you know, it takes some more threes, but
largely, you know clearly at his best getting to the rim, and every
player is even better getting to the rim off of an action than they are
by themselves. You kind of at some point need to have a pretty hard
conversation with the honest to get him off of the ball more, which I
think optimizes him and optimizes the Bucks. No player is interested in doing that.
I mean, this is the thing Dwight Howard for however long, like
he wanted this is a different slightly like tilted. Things are different now,
but he wanted to post up, which is like the equivalent of the Honest
always handling the ball like he wants to have the ball and control his own
possessions. And when Dwight Howard played really good defense and ran a bunch of
pick and rolls, he was like maybe the best player in the league for
a hot second there, one of the best five players for a while there.
Let me not get too spicy. I don't care that much about the
Dwight Howard debate, but the point remains, and that like, you really
needed him to do something a little bit different, and it was really hard
to get him to do that. And I think because the honest is generally
when he's not being called, you know, a guy with no skills or
whatever, he's generally looked at fondly across the league, especially personality wise,
I don't think he gets the same criticisms. I do think the Bucks are
gonna have to have some hard conversations about like you need to have the ball
a little bit less on the top of the key, and you need to
have it a little bit more like after you set a screen and roll to
the rim, or after you cut, or after you like post up on
the baseline right next to the rim while something else is happening. And I
think that becomes a lot easier if you get a player like Chris Paul than
it does with like Eric Bludso out there. But that's like it's like a
little like it's like not their number one or number two problem might not even
be top five, But I think it's gonna be like maybe long term Yannis.
One of the two most interesting things with the terms of his career is
like, a will he ever become a good enough perimeter player to justify all
the touches he has and be if not, how does he reckon with that?
How does he reckon with being the two time reigning MVP. And also
like a team maybe telling him we can't have you having the ball this much
in the playoffs. It's a very tricky thing and I think it almost sounds
like overthinking it. But also like watch how good Miami and Toronto were at
neutralizing him largely for large parts of those series. It's like no one really
talks about it. Again, the Bucks have other stuff on the table,
Like I don't know how much of that is the Bucks failing the scheme.
I don't know how much of that is honest not really wanting to be Dwight
Howard out there, you know, running a bunch of pick and rolls over
and over. I don't know, it's interesting, it's something to look at.
No one's really talking about it, but it might end up being hugely
important for both team and player. That's a really fascinating conversation to have,
and it's you already sort of mentioned this, But it's an easier conversation to
have if you have a better ball handler around him, if you want him
to do more roleman stuff. And I think I didn't really go to it
often enough, probably, but the Heat were really able to like derail the
Middleton Jannis pick and roll. That's probably a lot harder to do if it's
a Chris Paul Jannis pick and roll. You also, I think in that
scenario, I'm not like you need to probably commit to more minutes of Yannis
just straight out at the five too. I know he logged a career high
in possessions at the five this year, but you gotta go even more than
I think he was at like around five hundred for the season. That's just
not anywhere near enough. It's not And like even just going off that,
like there's a lot of times when he's quote unquote at the five and like
Urson Ilia Silva is playing drop coverage as the nominal center on defense, like
they need to play with him more the way the Heat used Bam out of
Bio Like that is like I can't, Like I keep reading and about Bam
and watching Bam and how the Heat to utilize him, and I just keep
thinking like Yannis in that role would be truly phenomenal. It's a hard cell
be honest to be bamed out of Bio when he's already honest to the Kumbo
right. No, for sure, one hundred percent, But that is something
interesting to monitor moving forward. But like you said, what they do this
off season kind of informs that and then would simplify that process. And look,
you can probably get it without even changing depending on who you get this
off season, without even changing Jannie's role, you can probably drastically improve a
lot of this. Though. Seems like, as you already mentioned too,
just based off the reporting from the Athletic, that this is still going to
be a money thing, and probably I won't say more so than ever,
but if it wasn't going to be at one point following the pandemic, the
gate revenue lost specifically this season the gate revenue that's probably going to be lost
next season. That might make them reticent to go after a Chris Paul or
even just go after like spending the entire MLI and I don't think we've mentioned
it already a bunch of times, but I don't think you can get away
with that. You arguably shouldn't have gotten away with it already, but you
can't get away with it anymore. I mean, if they if they do
some some checks to get under the tax at this point, that's just like
an incredibly bad look in mine. And I think that's the kind of thing
that, like, if there's any way that Jannis ends up getting out unexpectedly,
I think it would be a situation like that. So we'll see.
I'm not saying they will do that. I don't think they will do that,
but we will see. It's it's one of those things where my official
position right now is let's wait and see what happens, because I'm not just
gonna take, you know, the word of like you're just gonna believe someone's
gonna change after they've done X thing for X amount of time. I guess
that's like deeper and maybe sadder than it really should be for a basketball podcast,
but you gotta see the change to believe it. Ti, thank you
for giving me basically ninety minutes of your time, way long as I expected
to keep. No Bucks are gonna have one of the most fascinating off seasons,
and it almost kind of has nothing to do with Joanna's contract decision in
my opinion, just because he's gonna be on the Bucks next year. Guys,
if you do not follow Tie on Twitter, please remedy that immediately at
thy windosh T I W I N D I S c H. His content
is great out there. Please listen to his podcast. As we mentioned at
the top of this podcast, Ty, I'm sure I'll be pesturing you again
in the future, maybe the near future if the Bucks do something seize mix.
So thanks again for your time, and I will definitely be talking to
you soon, whether or not you want to be talking to me soon.
Trust me, man, this was a pleasure for me. I will try
to not somehow answer like a very simple question with a fifteen minute diatribe about
coach Bud or whatever else I get into talking about. But thank you so
much for having me. I would love to come back whenever, And yeah,
I think no matter what happens, literally any outcome, the bucks are
going to be fascinating the Sunner, which you can't always say even with the
honest team. So yeah, this will this will be something. Nobody builds
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