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Spanning the entire globe, involving hundreds
of different cultures, explaining the same phenomenon

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by different names. The nature of
the footprints, namely their remarkable insistency,

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their bio mechanical appropriateness, you know, those aspects that are are extremely compelling.

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Hey, everybody, welcome to the
Bigfoot Influencers podcast. I'm Dana and

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I'm Tim. Welcome everyone, and
we are super excited to have on doctor

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Jeff Melgrim today. We're very excited. But first we have some we wanted

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to welcome to our podcast, and
we also to welcome you to the Untold

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Radio Network where we have lots of
other great shows besides just ours, so

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make sure that you check them out. Also, I would also like to

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bring up something. Jeremiah Byron from
The Bigfoot Society left a very good review

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for you in your book. Yeah, make sure you check out he did

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a nice he did. He dropped
an episode on his network, so check

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out the Bigfoot Society podcast and he
did he did a review of the book.

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So thank you Jeremiah. We appreciate
he's friend of the show and just

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a good friend, so we want
to thank him for that. Thank you.

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So shall we introduce our guests,
yes, you should go ahead on

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nervous So, I mean, we
probably don't really need an introduction. But

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you know, today's doctor Jeff Meldrum. As we all know, he's to

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go to academic when it comes to
the subject to Bigfoot. He's a professor

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of anatomy and anthropology at Idaho State
University, I think for maybe third years.

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In addition, you know, he's
you know, he's been involved in

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this subject a subject to Bigfoot for
probably the same amount of time, at

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least, you know, from the
mid nineties. We're gonna talk about that

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a little more. You know,
he's featured in countless documentaries TV shows going

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all the way back to Monster Request
and Sosquatch Legend meets Science, and there's

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some some really cool stories around that
too. I'm not sure if we'll have

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time to get to that today,
but he just and overall he's just one

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of the nicest guys you know you'll
meet. He's approachable, he's just we

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just just love him. He's just
a cool guy. So he's definitely a

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no drama mama, yeah for sure. And so he really doesn't need an

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introduction, but we're gonna without any
further ado, let's bring in doctor Jeff.

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Hi, doctor Jeff, thank you
so much for being here with us.

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My pleasure. Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, we're so super exciting.

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So and thank you for being you
know, Jeff. Doctor Jeff was

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part of the book and he was
very gracious with his time and definitely was

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a wonderful experience had having him in
volume one of the books. So thank

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you again for that. Yeah.
Yeah, so let's you know, well,

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let me I gotta say this,
Jeff. You know, when I

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when I did the book, there
was a couple people that I was because

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so so how the book came came
about. You know, I I interviewed

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you, doctor Jeff, and a
bunch of other folks, and then I

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I, you know, it was
an audio or video interview, said,

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I transcribe interviews and I put it
in the words and and I, you

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know, one of the there's two
people I was really really extremely nervous of

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sending my edits off to and it
was and you were one of them,

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and Lauren Cale mean was the other
one. Lauren, if you're listening,

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But to my surprise, I mean
I was you know, you know,

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everything I got is he gonna and
and it came back with not a ton

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of edits, so I was I
was pleasantly surprised. He was nervous.

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Yeah, I was definitely nervous sending
it to you. So well, I'm

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glad it turned out. Well,
it was fun to relive that I was

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reading it just the other night.
In fact, I was going through and

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making sure that I wasn't the only
one. You asked, you know,

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what were my favorite hobbies and exactly
I listened to and that sort of thing.

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So it's fun to see that side
of some of these people that I've

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rubbed shoulders with but haven't had the
you know, the luxury of really getting

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to know on a social level to
a great degree. So's it's fun sharing

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those insights, right, And I
think, you know, it goes back

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to one one and you probably don't
remember because you you you speak to You

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talked to thousands of people, so
I won't take any offense. But when

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I first met you, and I
was just not really into the subject,

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and you and I had we were
in Ohio at the big Foot conference,

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and you and I had a ton
of conversations just about not nothing about Bigfoot

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and it was. It was amazing. I love people. I love learning

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about people, and we just talked
about family and travel and all kinds of

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things, and I think that just
I want I wanted one of the things

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I want to do in the book
is to remind everyone, the readers that

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hey, these are our moms and
dads and husbands and wives and and and

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all kinds. They're just We're just
people, you know. So it's really

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cool. So I did like that. So yeah, that was super cool.

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So actually that was one of our
first questions you were going to ask.

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But maybe you can tell our listeners
real quick, doctor Jeff, like,

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you know, share a little bit
about yourself, like your you know,

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your personal life, your your work
life right. Well. Uh,

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As from a professional perspective, I'm
a full professor of anatomy and anthropology here

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at Idaha State University, and my
that means I took a degree in anatomical

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sciences with an emphasis in physical anthropology, so I teach human gross anatomy at

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the graduate level primarily, although recently
i've been I was tapped to help develop

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an introductory anatomy and physiology course,
which has been really an interesting experience having

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spent you know, literally decades working
with overachieving graduate students in a highly competitive

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program, you know, the best
of the best of the best with honors,

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sir, you know, to a
fledgling freshmen coming in finding their way,

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you know, through registration and setting
up their curriculum and so forth.

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It's been an interesting experience. It's
been fun. It's been fun. I

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can imagine, I can imagine.
Yeah. We recently spoke to well,

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I spoke to Chris Spencer and he
was mentioning, you know, he was

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when he was a freshman in college
at nineteen. He studied over under doctor

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Gerva Krantz and had no idea in
the beginning that he was a big guy.

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So it's it's just funny how the
life comes full circle sometimes it is.

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Yeah, yeah, I In fact, it's it's always kind of interesting.

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You know, a student will come
in for an office hour and you

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know, see things like what you
see over my shoulder there on the wall

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and look at that, and they
they start to wonder what you know,

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and then ask interesting questions and it
at leads to an interesting conversation. But

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it for most students, it doesn't
take long for the word to get around.

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I think I have a reputation and
they're always saying when you get a

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lecture on big foot. So in
fact, with my occupational and physical therapy

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students, we often there. There
used to be a point in the curriculum

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where I actually one of the final
lectures was on the determinants of gate what

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are the we break down and unpack
how does we walk on two legs and

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the adaptations of the skeletal system and
muscular system and so forth. And I

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would actually show the Patterson Gimlin film
and have them pick out the distinctions from

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human typical human gait that they could
observe there. And then we also used

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it kind of just as a fun
exercise in identifying surface anatomy. I said,

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now start at the head, right
at the crown, go down to

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the toes, and I want you
to identify as many anatomical landmarks, muscle

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groups, bony landmarks and so forth
that you can see. And they're amazed,

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you know, because at first it's
like, ah, you know,

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I've seen that, But then they
start to scrutinize it. And of course

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I have a much better copy than
a version of anything that they've ever seen.

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On television and they'll start going,
yeah, I can see the trapezist,

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and there's the deltoid, and you
know, the erector spiny muscle group

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and and just right on down and
they're just they're just flabbergast. So it's

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it's always fun. But some now, because we discovered a few years ago

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that we actually were teaching school for
a week and a half longer than any

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other institute of higher education in the
state or elsewhere. Somehow an extra week

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and a half it crept into the
calendar, so they cut that off,

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and that took away several of my
slots for lectures, and so one of

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them that unfortunately sacrificed, was that
kind of summary summary lecture on gate.

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So I will sometimes do an evening
seminar for the physical therapy students, in

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particular the ones that are always the
most keen, it seems, you know,

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and they'll bring in a couple of
pizzas and we watch I do a

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PowerPoint presentation. I usually show the
film and bring in a few casts,

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and you know, at this point
they've learned enough anatomy that they really can

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start to appreciate what they're seeing,
both in terms of the functional morphology of

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the foot and as that relates to
the footprints. But again, analyze seen

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the PG film from from a very
functional biomechanical perspective. It's it's it's really

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really quite interesting to see their reaction. Yeah, it's interesting because to see

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you grooming new bigfoot researchers or even
if they're not, at least opening their

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eyes exactly. Yeah, yeah,
it does. It is positive on on

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several fronts. But yeah, and
I've had students here come back years later

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and and either share experiences they've had
in the interim or or tell me how

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that really peaked their interest. And
they've they've done all this investigation on their

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own, and so yeah, it's
always fun to see, you know,

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like they say, you cast your
bread on the water and it comes back.

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It sure does. Every once in
a while you have an interesting confirmation

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of that. Right. So,
so outside of obviously your your profession and

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and the things that you do for
the bigfoot world, which were all I

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mean indebted to, what else does
doctor Jeff do when he if he has

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free time? Yeah, Well,
obviously the biggest investment of time and energy

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and resource is my family. I
have six boys of my own and then

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through remarriage, I've added two more
boys and step sons and a step daughter

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finally after six failed attempts on.
So you know it, there was just

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never a lot of spare time.
I would be off doing some things,

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and especially during the summer, oftentimes
or most of the time, the kids

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were not well, they were interested
and they would always you know, if

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we ever had a visitor at the
house, John Minzinski or whatever, you

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know, they were always fascinated.
And if we were watching something on television,

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they were glued to it. But
they were very into athletics and and

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so it was soccer and lacrosse and
and juggling that we were soccer moms and

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dads and and with six kids.
I mean, there was one year we

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actually thought we were going to have
to put a limit, and so we

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said, okay, you know,
you you and you get to play soccer

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this year, but the other three
are going to take a sabbatical. That

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that proposition went over like a lead
balloon. Obviously, we had to think

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ways to be you know, the
two of us to be in three places

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at one time. So there was
a lot of farming, kids out and

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shared rides and carpooling. There were
you know, other families and similar situations,

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but you know that those were my
saturdays, right, yeah, pretty

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many years. And you know when
you when you have six, I always

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felt it was always concerned that they
all all felt like they were getting enough

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attention from Dad. And so,
you know, we try to on a

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rotating basis, or double up somewhat
still rotating, take one or two of

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them out for a special activity,
whether even if it was just going down

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to the to the Arctic Circle to
get a you know, a tasty freeze,

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not a taste frees another a soft
or something real Arctic circle. Okay,

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because for a second, I was
like what. There were a couple

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of occasions where they did go with
me on on outings. I remember I

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had a really good fun time with
one of them. We went up close

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to uh, let's see where I
was it Driggs up on the Idaho Wyoming

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border, and there was a fellow
up there who had some rural property,

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well more rural mountain property. Everything
around here is pretty pretty rural, but

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and claim to have had some some
activities. It was more I think,

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more imagination than reality. He was
showing me, you know, where it

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had supposedly come and and and pulled
off green sprigs on the trees. Well,

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it was it was, you know, I've quickly found moose tracks,

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and it was you would see the
nip, you know, of the moose

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have lower teeth that they don't have
up teeth. They just have that palette

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and so you can see on the
bark where the bottom teeth scrape and the

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knit as they feed on those little
green terminal buds. So he was,

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you know, it's always an exercise
in destonte diplomacy. Tried to carefully and

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gently point these things out. And
you're so good at that, doctor,

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Jeff, I must say I used
to be better. I'm getting less patient,

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more impatient, I think with compared
to everybody else, you're really at

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that. So you know, if
you can make it an exercise in self

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discovery, then it's it's a little
less embarrassing, but definitely. And yeah,

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and I was just gonna say,
just you know, getting like getting

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back to the bigfoot thing. So
I don't know if this happens to you,

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but sometimes it happens to me where
you run into people who are like,

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what's a bigfoot? Like, it's
not very many people who say that.

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I mean, the last person that
happened to was a girl from South

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America. So so she wanted me
to explain to her what this was.

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And so I was thinking to myself, how would doctor Jeff explain that to

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somebody who's never heard of a bigfoot? Right? Oh, how would I

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Yeah, you were being me vicariously. Well, you know, it's it.

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Sometimes it depends on the audience on
who's receiving the information, because you

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know, for if it's someone who
has a little more savvy about the history

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of science and anthropology and so forth, it's I if I can establish a

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context for the proposition of a relic
hominoid that is a branch of this very

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bushy, bushy family tree that has
persisted alongside us, and although isn't acknowledged,

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is you know, maybe represented in
the in the fossil record by one

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form or another. I mean,
take for example, the the hobbit Homo

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floresienzes. You know, it's it
was so interesting to see the kind of

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waffling and shuffle, well not not
necessarily, some were waffling. Some of

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the actual discoverers, the paleontologists,
anthropologists involved, We're actually quite keen on

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the subject, quite aware of the
subject of the ring in deck or other

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other monikers for these diminutive hominins in
Southeast Asia. And we're quick to acknowledge

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that, say that by by saying, you know, these the locals have

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been telling us all along, as
we've been digging in this gate that they're

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you know, why kids kind of
like, why are you looking for bones?

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They live right up there in the
mountain, you know. They they

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they already had a concept of these
these little hairy people that that they kind

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of held in deference because they could
be really obnoxious and aggressive sometimes that one

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of the names, you know,
indicated their habit of gobbling things up.

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They would leave offerings out on these
wooden plates, and they'd eat not all

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of the offerings, but they would
crunch up the plates in the swall,

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apparently, but according to their stories. But the point is here, we've

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got something where there's this now established
fossil record and there's this otherwise ostensibly folkloric

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figure, and it is just so
remarkably correlated that you can't help but be

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tempted to connect the dots, and
perhaps justifiably so. I just recently reviewed

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a recent book by doctor excuse me, doctor Gregory Fourth who's now retired from

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the University of Alberta, and his
research emphasis was he did his doctorate on

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the island of Flores. He was
working down in a different region from where

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the Homo Floresians this remains were discovered. But he drew attention to the fact

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that of all these sort of mythological
figures, there were some that were,

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as he called it, empirical.
They were the descriptions were so matter of

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fact, so pragmatic. It didn't
have the qualities of the spirits or phantoms

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or so forth. They they were
always described in you know, very corporeal,

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very flesh and blood terms. And
so in his most recent book,

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he wrote a very excellent it's a
bit heady, it's a bit expensive,

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although now once it came out in
paperback, it's a little more accessible to

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your average reader. But it's a
very scholarly book. And so he wrote

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more a book directed more to a
general audience. Connecting those dots, and

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you know, he acknowledges this is
a largely a book about stories. It's

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it's eyewitness anecdotes, it's the folklore
that surrounds this topic. But when you

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compare the traits, you know,
go down a list, tick off characteristics

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that produce a profile for the Ebu
go Goo, the oregpendec the end two

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on the one hand, and this
relic australopithesene or very early Homo. The

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the correlation the is just it's just
undeniable. I mean, it's strength.

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So and I think doesn't he mention
that if if, if they if they

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still don't exist. I think didn't
he mention that, you know, they

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could have been as recent as one
hundred years or so, that they could

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have been around well, sure,
yeah, there this burial site around which

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a number of the traditions revolved.
There's actually a cairn of stones that marks

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the place where some of them were
extirpated and buried. But see there but

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a male and female reportedly escaped and
headed north. So they left it left

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the door open for there's still to
be others. But that this two hundred

248
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years ago. So although in his
more recent book where he's actually emphasizing not

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the Goro go Go, but the
but the other one, it's I always

250
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get the name, it's a fie
or something like that. It's different,

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a different name, but obviously describing
the same thing. There still are contemporary

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reports that are remarkably consistent and very
matter of fact, So I kind of

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digress from your original, but it
did, And I'm it's so funny because

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you always go into such interesting other
things, thank God. But yeah,

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do me a favor, doctor Jeff. Just pretend I'm a person and I'm

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00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:37.279
like, what's bigfoot exactly? And
don't explain it to me like an anatomy

257
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.599
student or an anatomy professor. Explain
it to me like who I am?

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Right? Well, I still I
mean again, if you're asking me,

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you know, then I mean I
try to tell people to because it dispels

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so much of the baggage. And
I sort of explain in very simple terms,

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a relic hominoid. We are members
of the superfamily of a taxonomic group

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that includes that the large body tailss
primates, the chimps, the gorillas,

263
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.960
and near rings, and we're part
of that same superfamily, the hominoid Ea.

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So a hominoid is a member of
that family, and the name derives

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from human like creatures and relict with
a T is used in biology to indicate

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a population a species whose population numbers
and distribution is much restricted compared to the

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past. It's held on. It
still survived, but not nearly with all

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the extent and glory that it once
had as a species. So instead of

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evoking this image of something on the
cover of a tabloid magazine at the supermarket

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checkouts stand, you have this very
rational objective concept of species of human like

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primates, large bodied tail as primates
that have survived. I mean, we

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look at the at the great apes
today and many of them, especially like

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the Orengutan, the mountain gorilla,
they're just hanging on to existence, survival

274
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like their fingernails, and they are
themselves relict species that are now restricted to

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very small areas in forest refugeia in
equatorial regions of the globe. We think

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that Bigfoot, abominable snowman, the
Yeki, the ring Pendec, the Almaski

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of Russia, that these are relic
populations that are now restricted to very small

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areas of day distribution, fragmented areas
of distribution with much lower numbers enough to

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sustain well perhaps, I mean,
they're again much like the the Evu Go

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Go, the the Almasti. The
reports of the Almasti, according to the

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local people's are very rare and far
between, you know, infrequent, and

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many of them say that they're probably
extinct. They're probably no more. I

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haven't been for generations. But but
that's that's one way to think about it.

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I mean, that's a great that
was a great answer. Actually,

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you did a great job, doctor, because I know it's so hard for

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you to not sound smart. Well
you sounded smart. I'm just saying,

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like, like super smart. But
here's a question. So the next question

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would come back at you because I
love I know, we can get you

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know, all into a lot of
the you know, cheap discussions, but

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I always like to bring it back
to maybe new viewers, people who are

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interested in become interested in the subject. So the next question that person might

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ask you, doctor Jeff, is
so why do you think this thing exists

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out there? What kind of evidence
do you have? What you know,

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what are your thoughts on that?
Well? What what drew me into it

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in a professional capacity and not just
a you know, an avocational interest is

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my research emphasis, which is the
evolution of human bipedalism, our habit of

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walking on two legs by two pads
feet two footed walking, and so that

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means I'm you know, I'm studying
not only human subjects to understand our modern

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form of walking on two legs,
but I'm looking at at comparative models of

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the way in which the great apes
move. I even my doctoral dissertation since

301
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since hominin fossils are so rare and
unless your advisor is digging them up himself,

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it's hard to get access to them. So I had to kind of

303
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come in the side door, and
I looked at terrestrial ground moving adaptations in

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monkeys in African circapithesenes, the baboons
and the caqus and so forth. And

305
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then what I did is characterize the
way in which a quadruped walks on the

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ground, A primate quadruped one that
previously was adapted to clamoring about in the

307
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trees, much more like a you
know, like a capuchin monkey from South

308
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America versus a hominin that has come
down from the trees and now walks on

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two legs. Those things that they
have in common are common responses to walking

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on the ground. The things that
are different are those things uniquely associated with

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walking on two legs instead of four. So it was an interesting way to

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kind of get at the at the
question from a side door, and in

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many ways I think helped me to
appreciate those very distinctive characteristics of the human

314
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condition that were sometimes overlooked or or
underappreciated by by those that hadn't looked at

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that that outlier group of quadrupedal terrestrial
monkeys. So I did it again.

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What was the question? It's okay
now that the question was explain it.

317
00:27:52.200 --> 00:28:00.960
Yes, perspective, it's the footprints, you know, that I'm most interested

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00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.240
in, and that's what really set
the hook. I mean, I had

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the not unique but rare privilege of
examining not one or two ambiguous, equivocal

320
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imprints in the ground, but to
examine witness firsthand remarkably fresh footprints comprising a

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trackway consisting of thirty five forty five
absolutely clear prints in the mud. And

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it was it was an AHA moment, you know. I jokingly referred to

323
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it as that to compare it to
that Eminem's commercial where they and then Santa

324
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.200
Claus walk into the same room in
front of the Christmas tree and Santa does

325
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they do exist? And of course
they say, oh, he does exist,

326
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and they all it felt almost like
that, I mean, that realization

327
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:06.720
based upon the impression of the impression
pardon the pun, but the impact of

328
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:14.000
these remarkably animated footprints that that,
you know, the only conclusion was,

329
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:18.160
my gosh, a sasquatch actually walked
by here last night or this morning.

330
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:21.400
You know, they were that fresh, they were just a matter of hours

331
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old. I knelt down. You
could still see in the very fine sediment.

332
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.799
You could see skin ridge detail,
which was quickly fading because it was

333
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.440
overcast and kind of drizzling a little
bit was washing out a little bit of

334
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:40.440
that fine textured imprint. But the
pressure ridges, the toe slippage, the

335
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:47.720
displays, the tension cracks, you
know, the extrusion artifacts were all indicative

336
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:53.079
of a remarkably animated, a very
lifelike footprint, I mean. And if

337
00:29:55.279 --> 00:30:00.799
that may be lost on some of
your listeners, it unless you you busied

338
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.279
yourself with the you know, the
art of tracking to where you can recognize

339
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:10.960
you can see that track for what
it is for the record of the dynamic

340
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:17.000
interaction of the foot through the course
of a step with the substrate, with

341
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:19.880
the ground, the soil. So
yeah, so basically, doctor Jeff,

342
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:26.400
you seeing a footprint like that with
your background and education and experience is like

343
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:32.480
a normal person just seeing a sasquatch
in front of them. Yeah, yeah,

344
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:37.359
just about. I've often said that
if if all I had or the

345
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:42.359
footprints from the Patterson Gimlin film site, that that it's a remarkably well documented

346
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:52.240
case and so pristine. In some
instances the Rogers Rogers selected the flattest,

347
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:56.720
clearest Cristmas right and left that he
could see there and cast those. Unfortunately,

348
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:02.400
they did not show some of the
dynamic They were closer to a more

349
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:10.720
static mold of a foot, but
by contrast and that kind of unfortunately a

350
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:17.759
lot of the experts of the time
there really weren't very many experts in hominin

351
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:23.559
trackway analysis at that time in sixty
seven, but they looked like they were

352
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.039
the product of carved wooden feet,
flat planks of wood, you know,

353
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:32.680
strapped to boots. But when Bob
Tipmas came down and cast ten in succession,

354
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:37.880
regardless of their quality, you know
that the dynamic signatures then become all

355
00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.119
too evident. So can you explain
that the flat foot? Because sometimes I

356
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.119
hear that too. People look at
that, they say, well that just

357
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.000
that foot looks flat, and it
looks like it's just a carving. Can

358
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:52.319
you explain that dynamic? Yes,
yes, well, their foot is flat

359
00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.799
and that it lacks the longitude in
the large that's one of the most,

360
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:02.359
other than the size, one of
the most distinctive architectural differences between their foot

361
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:09.400
and our foot. The arch human
foots of a quite recent innovation in harmon

362
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:15.119
and evolution. For millions of years, early Hormonans walked on flat, flexible

363
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:21.079
feet, and some of the early
examples, like the Layo totally tracks excuse

364
00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:22.839
me, the date to three and
a half million years ago from East Africa

365
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:30.480
show a mid tarsal pressure ridge indicative
of a flexible midfoot without a fixed longitude

366
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:36.720
and the large so and we could
go into the biomechanics of that more,

367
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:44.079
but at the point being so,
depending on the substrate, depending on the

368
00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:47.640
the you know, it's compliance,
it's plasticity, depending on the forward impulse,

369
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:52.519
the speed of walking, the placement
of the foot. Some of the

370
00:32:52.559 --> 00:33:00.279
tracks do look remarkably flat as though, as do those that Roger cast Angst

371
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:07.200
the ones that Bob tipmus cast one
in particular I've drawn attention to that shows

372
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:12.640
a very distinctive pressure ridge, a
speed bump. People look at that and

373
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:14.920
they think, well, that's an
arch and not no, no, it's

374
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:19.279
not at all. It's it's that
is a dynamic signature, not a negative

375
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:24.920
space, but rather it's material that
has been displaced by the heel of the

376
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:30.359
foot or by excuse me, by
the forefoot as the heel comes off the

377
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.200
ground and loses contact. And you
know, it's really stunning. For for

378
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:40.160
a long time, people would criticize
me and say, well, if that,

379
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:45.000
if your interpretation's right, despite the
fact that I had multiple other examples

380
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.599
of correlations. But if that's right, why only one footprint there at the

381
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.480
film site shows it. And finally
it occurred to me, well, I've

382
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:57.839
got the three D scans. You
know, I've examined these tracks. I

383
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:00.440
know that they show it. So
how can I show it to these other

384
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:06.400
naysayers? Well, with the three
D scans, we just composed an image

385
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.679
where we rotate those scans, you
know, ninety degrees and boom, eight

386
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:15.800
out of the ten show evidence of
a mid tarsal pressure ridge. And then

387
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:24.960
the real clincher was I had the
chance the privilege of meeting John Crew,

388
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:31.719
Jerry Crew's son, who is now
the curator of that famous footprint from nineteen

389
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:37.519
fifty eight, the big male down
there in that region along the Bluff Creek

390
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:45.239
drainage. And you know, the
picture that's highly publicized is a noosprint.

391
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:50.440
And the reporter used an old fashioned
camera with a bold probably flash, you

392
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:54.440
know, boom, and that bright
flash you can see the real strong shadow

393
00:34:54.519 --> 00:35:00.000
behind him in the cast. Well, it flattens everything out, especially the

394
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:04.239
he's holding forward. It makes it
look flat, but it can hardly recognize

395
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:07.039
any topography that would otherwise show up
if you had a strong side lighting.

396
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.480
Well, I had a chance to
look at this cast. He had it

397
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:16.159
wired into this shadow box, and
he allowed me to disassemble the shadow box

398
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:21.920
and carefully unwire the original cast and
take it out and boom lo and behold,

399
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.559
guess what it has a pressure?
It has a pressure is that's just

400
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:30.159
as distinct as as as any from
the Patterson Gilan film side. And it's

401
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:37.440
in the same place, same slight
orientation where it can't upward and outward towards

402
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:39.280
the you know, the little toe
side, the outside of the foot,

403
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:44.400
because the joints that allow the mobility
in the foot, there are two of

404
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:50.679
them. Uh, it's it's a
compound joint between the ankle and the you

405
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:52.159
know, the people are familiar with
the ankle bone and the heel bone,

406
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:58.079
but the two in front the tay
listen and I'm sorry, the nvicular and

407
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:01.679
the cuboid are are a little less
commonly known terms, but they're the bones

408
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:05.880
just in front of the heel bone
and just in front of the ankle bone,

409
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:09.199
and those two combine have a much
greater range of motion than the human

410
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:15.400
foot, which twists into a locked, stiff, stiff structure that acts as

411
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:20.239
a you know, more stable lever. But their flexible foot allows for a

412
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:24.840
break, not a damaging, you
know, injury, but a break an

413
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:30.920
axis of flexion. And you know, this is a this is a remnant

414
00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:38.920
primitive trait that first was embellished from
the primitive primate condition in these big bodied

415
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:45.719
hominoids that would climb up vertical supports, gripping the the trunk with their big

416
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:52.719
toe opposite pilateral toes. Well.
To maintain a grip while still levering the

417
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:55.760
center of mass upward, you had
to have a little bit of disconnect or

418
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:00.480
a little bit of flexibility between the
two segments of the foot, so it

419
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:04.760
was a climbing adaptation. But if
a chip comes to the ground when it

420
00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:09.440
walks because of that flexibility, you
get that break still occurring. And the

421
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:16.280
sasquatch has just never evolved and rightly
so, never evolved in arch because of

422
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:20.760
its massive size. Is it increased
in size and arch? You know,

423
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:25.000
look at what happens to people who
are excessively obese or are quite big.

424
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:31.559
They often suffer from collapsed arches or
painful But that's true, That is so

425
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:36.760
true. So basically what you're saying, doctor Jeff, is that looking at

426
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:44.199
the I'm bringing this back to our
movie people. So looking at you know,

427
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:47.079
a big footprint, you can look
at that and you can say,

428
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.960
number one, that's not human,
right, and number two, it's not

429
00:37:52.119 --> 00:38:00.119
fake because there's just too much going
on there for any average Joe Schmo to

430
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:02.880
be able to fake a print exactly, and to fake it in such a

431
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:07.400
way. They're not just enlarged fac
similes of a human footprint, but they

432
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:16.280
are. They embody the precisely the
adaptations that we would expect in a primitive,

433
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:22.639
more ape like species that has retained
many of those primitive traits. I

434
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.960
mean, it's lost the divergence of
the big toe. But it has not

435
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:32.079
evolved the longitudinal arch. It hasn't, you know, And we really didn't

436
00:38:32.239 --> 00:38:38.519
until our skeletons start started to lighten
up. Our muscles became much less massive,

437
00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:45.159
less had less body strength than what
we see in the non human primates.

438
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:52.199
So, and what's even more astounding
than that simple correlation or that inclusion

439
00:38:52.280 --> 00:39:00.960
of those biomechanically sound principles, is
that they exist in tracks that were discovered

440
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:07.039
decades before the scientists were even talking
about those features or had examples in the

441
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.480
Hamon and fossil record to say,
well, yes, in fact, you

442
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:16.440
know Lucy, the famous Lucy with
exaffarensis, was walking on flat, flexible

443
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:21.639
feet. See. And because of
the insight that I had gained from looking

444
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.599
at the sasquad tracks, I was
beating this drum because I went back and

445
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:30.039
looked at the Laya Toty tracks again
with his fresh view and with this idea

446
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.400
of the of a mid tarsal break, and I started looking at all of

447
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:38.719
the skeletal remains and they had remarkable
flexible in steps. But yet it took

448
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:44.159
about ten or fifteen years for the
science to catch up and acknowledge that,

449
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:49.079
yeah, although they don't acknowledge that
I was right. As you know,

450
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.440
he believes in bigfoot. How could
he be right about anything you deal with

451
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:59.800
a living fossil, right, yeah, exactly exactly. So another thing I

452
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.800
to ask about. So we're going
going back to the trackway that gave you

453
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:07.719
your aha moment, which I think
was the Walla Walla trackway, so I

454
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:13.360
guess, and just from your basically
from your background and your profession, you

455
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:17.639
could see that it was it was
the same foot print or the same foot

456
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:22.599
making the track, although the toast
blaye could be different, or it could

457
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:27.000
have it could have slid. Is
that I mean, can you expand on

458
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.480
that a little bit? Uh,
the same foot I mean as far as

459
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:35.639
that that the integrity of that one
trackway, right, yes, sure,

460
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:37.880
oh absolutely. And that was what
was interesting too, is you know,

461
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:44.119
if these were simply the product of
carved wooden feet, those feet are static,

462
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:51.480
and sure you might get the superficial
appearance of some variation due the differences

463
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:57.000
in depth of the imprint or you
know, or you know, sliding or

464
00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:00.760
whatever. The artificially elongates. Hard
to try cat a stiff wooden foot that

465
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:07.840
doesn't flex or bend in any anyway. But there was so much variation.

466
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:13.639
There were tracks that where it was
walking rather evenly with the toes fully extended,

467
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:19.920
and sometimes the lateral toes as is
often the case in many examples I've

468
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:22.280
seen, because they don't push off
with their toes like we do. They

469
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.599
push off from the forefoot with a
greater surface area. The toes are there

470
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:35.559
for traction if necessary, to prevent
backsliding, unless the substrate is remarkably soft

471
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:40.079
and moist, as was the case
in several examples that I examined on this

472
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:45.400
occasion outside of wall wallet, I
mean one where the toes slid a good

473
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:50.320
four inches and the mud extrewed it
up in between. You could see how

474
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:54.079
they flexed really tightly. In fact, on the fifth and the first the

475
00:41:54.440 --> 00:42:01.360
toes actually kind of it impressed so
deeply into the soft mud profile imprints as

476
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:07.519
you can see the sides of those
toes and clearly see the individual segments of

477
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:13.159
each of those outer digits, And
it was quite clear that the little one

478
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.920
had three segments, as your little
toe does. Our little toe has gotten

479
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:22.440
so short and so small that it's
hard to tell that this toe is every

480
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:25.840
bit as long as my pinky finger, and the thumb the big toe as

481
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.760
big as a bigger than my thumb, and it only had two segments.

482
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.559
Now you ask, like like you
were saying, your your average Joe on

483
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:38.840
the street, did you know that
your thumb only has two bones in it

484
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:45.320
and all the other of your digits
have three three full engines. So a

485
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:50.119
subtle detail like that, which is, you know, totally unknown to most

486
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.440
people, and it's something that's in
front of our face all day, he

487
00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:00.519
would think noticed that. So those
those kinds of things. Yeah, So,

488
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:04.679
so there was no way that a
pair of artificial feet could be responsible

489
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:07.400
for the variation that you know,
you would have to have at least five

490
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:12.800
different sets, and then it would
be very odd looking where you'd have some

491
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.719
that looked identical and then suddenly it
switches up to one, the one where

492
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:20.559
all those are flexed, and then
one where it's only half a foot you

493
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:23.440
know, because it's running on the
front half of its foot and slipping in

494
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:28.559
the mud, et cetera. I
mean it was just there. I mean,

495
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.840
there's they're just yeah there. When
when you really pin it down,

496
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:37.679
there is no way these things were
hoaxed. There's just okay, So what

497
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:44.000
are your other like professor colleagues like
how do you because you're working at the

498
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:46.840
university and then like you're walking down
the hall and he's like there that guy

499
00:43:47.039 --> 00:43:50.840
is like, oh my god,
there's that crazy bigfoot guy. Or you

500
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:55.920
know, like or even if they
don't think you're crazy, where do they

501
00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:00.480
think you're missing? Like? What
do they? What are I think that

502
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:05.000
you're missing in this knowledge that you
have. You know, I would say

503
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.920
belief, but I know you know
it exists because you have the evidence.

504
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:12.639
But what do you say to your
other colleagues? Yeah, I like to

505
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:17.440
say I'm convinced. I don't you
know, you hate to say one percent

506
00:44:17.639 --> 00:44:27.280
because in science that rests upon a
conclusive demonstration of a physical specimen, which

507
00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:32.760
we come up short. But it's
interesting the reaction and there's a time element

508
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:39.480
now. But the reaction has spanned
the gambit from those who are fascinated and

509
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:46.599
curious and supportive to those that are
ambivalent because they're busy doing their own thing,

510
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.920
you know, like most of us
should be. I mean, I

511
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.119
don't know, but all of the
faculty members, I mean I roughly know

512
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:58.920
what area, I don't know what
projects they're specifically working on, or what

513
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.840
their graduate students are do it.
And then there are those who get up

514
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:06.280
every morning, it would seem,
and think, hmm, how can I

515
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:13.800
make life miserable for doctor meldrem to
it was now thankfully they've either retired or

516
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.519
moved on. I'm now the oldest
member of my department. That's a good

517
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:22.679
feeling if you couldn't tell, yeah, I'm the patriarch. And we've got

518
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:25.840
lots of new hires that have been
you know that are assistant professors that have

519
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:30.159
been here less than five years.
And there's a certain you know, there's

520
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:35.800
a certain degree of respect and deference
that you would kind of expect to be

521
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:40.039
normal. It's not like there's you
know, whispers in the hall. There

522
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:47.840
was more open ridicule and and things
said behind my back. I mean sometimes

523
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:52.440
it was so bad that that the
graduate students would pick up on what their

524
00:45:52.480 --> 00:46:00.679
mentors were saying about me, and
then they would start promulgating that amongst their

525
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:04.679
fellow gradudates. I had gradu students
come into my office and say, you

526
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.320
know, doctor Meldrim, you know
so and so's shooting his mouth off all

527
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:10.880
the time. Every time every opportunity, he says, you really need to

528
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.519
do something about it. And so, you know, I called up in

529
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:20.119
one instance, I called up that
graduate student's mentor and I said, hey,

530
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:25.159
we've got an issue here. He's
your student. You're responsible in part

531
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:30.920
for his behavior, especially when he's
getting it from you. Right, thank

532
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:38.119
you, because this was one of
the most antagonistic ones. And the next

533
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:42.639
day there was a kind of a
timid knock knock to knock at my door

534
00:46:42.679 --> 00:46:45.920
and in comes the graduate student and
he sits down. He says, well,

535
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:52.360
I'm told I owe you an apology, and sincere right. You know,

536
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.039
at first, yeah, it was
kind of it was obviously forced.

537
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:59.960
But I said, look, you
know I can I can't empathize. I

538
00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:05.559
don't condone your behavior whatsoever, but
I know where it's coming from. You

539
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:07.679
know, you simply don't have any
idea what I'm doing, and you're working

540
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.760
off of rumor and innuendo. So
come back here, lab let me show

541
00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:14.880
you. So I took him back
and for the next twenty minutes thirty minutes,

542
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:17.880
I showed him the cast. I
showed him that the anatomy, I

543
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:22.119
showed him the interpretation. I showed
him the remarkable. Uh, you know,

544
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:25.639
repeat appearance of individuals and so forth
and so forth, one thing after

545
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:30.280
another. And he just sat there
shaking his head saying I had no idea,

546
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:31.639
and said, well that's the point. I mean, if you that

547
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:37.559
is the point. You learn nothing
else from this experience. Keep your trap

548
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:43.000
shut until you know something, you
know. Yeah, we have a graduate

549
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.119
student, so he's about to he
was also going to become an assistant professor.

550
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.880
Yeah, we were asked the joke, not the joke, I said,

551
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.840
I said, I think because he's
getting ready to post doc after he

552
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.199
gets his in May. He's getting
his PhD. I said, well I

553
00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:00.719
know someone and maybe get your job
up and Idaho and it is by his

554
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:06.000
it is biology. Yeah. So
but so yeah, he's and then then

555
00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.519
our other we have, our youngest
is also uh he's in his going into

556
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:14.719
his junior year of undergraduate school and
he's in biology as well. So we

557
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:17.280
have so I think we're going to
force them to watch this. Yeah,

558
00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:22.679
because you, by far, doctor
Jeff, are like the coolest, like

559
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:29.360
you know, just like amazing detail
oriented explainer. Ever, so they're going

560
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:34.599
to understand half of what you said. No, they're going to understand all

561
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:37.639
of what you said, So I
want to ask a couple of history questions

562
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:44.079
and maybe maybe some fun ones.
Okay, So you mentioned to me that

563
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:51.039
you you were in China filming an
episode of Monster Quests, right and you

564
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:55.400
had to share a tent with the
one and only Adam Davies, and it

565
00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:59.400
was an interesting experience. I thought
that'd be a fun story to share with

566
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:01.800
the audience. Can you share that? Yeah, sure, sure, I

567
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:09.360
had. I had a great uh
uh set up at one conference when I

568
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:15.239
was on a panel and and Adam
was there, uh, and we're having

569
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:20.960
a good time. He's always fun
to uh to catch up with. But

570
00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:25.599
the question that was posed was what
was the scariest experience you've ever had on

571
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:30.280
an expedition? And so you know, in him sitting right next to me,

572
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.119
I just had to tell it.
So so we we were we had

573
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:43.480
gotten a very rare opportunity to actually
go into the Shenanjia National Reserve Nature nature

574
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:47.079
Park and uh and spend the night. They were gonna let us camp overnight,

575
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:52.000
which was kind of undeard of,
and and actually almost got the kabash

576
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:55.800
at the at the last minute.
We had there was some there was you

577
00:49:55.840 --> 00:50:02.719
know, one underling administrator who was
kind of flexing his muscles and trying to

578
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:08.320
exert some authority and make it difficult. So we almost got to derailed,

579
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:13.239
but managed to get it through.
So we've hiked back up in beautiful kind.

580
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:15.920
I mean, it's it's it looks
it felt like the Rocky Mountains.

581
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:19.119
The only thing was different that we
don't have in the Rockies or the the

582
00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:23.800
large rhododendron trees, and you know, it's still you can find those in

583
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:29.000
you go over to the Olympic Peninsula
and there they are, and down in

584
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:34.440
the southern forests, pine forests.
But in any case, there was was.

585
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:42.840
It was very reminiscent of the Rocky
Mountains. And so because obviously you

586
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:49.079
were having to travel light and when
we're traveling international and everything, and you

587
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:53.599
can't really take a whole kit of
camping gear. And so they had relied

588
00:50:53.679 --> 00:50:59.800
on a local fixer to make arrangements. And there was an investigator. He

589
00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:07.440
was an impressive man. He was
just his his presence, in his stance.

590
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.119
I said, this guy's got to
be military. What he was he

591
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:15.559
was. He was an officer in
the secret police, one of the one

592
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:19.159
of the training officers, and so
he was very, very organized. But

593
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:24.679
he had arranged the equipment, including
our pup tent. It was it was,

594
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:29.760
you know, as you can imagine. I mean, I've lost a

595
00:51:29.840 --> 00:51:37.159
couple of inches due to collapsed discs
in my lower back. So I'm just

596
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:40.920
barely six foot. Adam I think
is six two, and most of our

597
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:46.599
group were in excess of six foot, and so you know, the average

598
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:53.679
person out there was maybe about five
eight average man, and so the tent

599
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:58.320
would have been quite adequate for two
of them, but you put Adam me,

600
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:00.480
and so I'm looking at this and
I'm thinking, you know, my

601
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:06.639
feet are gonna stick out the bottom. I really didn't need a tent,

602
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:12.280
except that there was a threat of
rain, and so Adam was standing up

603
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:19.119
late. He was gonna be working
the over at the spring that he constructed

604
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.400
a little blind and they were gonna
sit there with the thermal camera and see

605
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:28.159
if anything came to the spring during
the night. So he didn't show back

606
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:31.239
up in camp until the wee hours
of the morning, you know, probably

607
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:38.880
about two or three. But he
climbs in and and so we're I just

608
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:43.440
remember at one point I woke up, as you often, do you know?

609
00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:45.800
And I woke up and here was
Adam's face. I mean literally and

610
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:52.079
less than a week of wine.
So I, you know, I kind

611
00:52:52.119 --> 00:53:02.039
of quickly turn over. He wasn't
spooning with me or something. We were

612
00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:07.000
there was room in here that when
you rolled over, you'd catch the wall

613
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:12.840
and it would bend the wall outward
and pull the roof down right on top

614
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:15.920
of this kind I mean, it's
just I can just imagine what it looked

615
00:53:15.920 --> 00:53:22.599
like from the outside. But I
I'm trying to turn over without flattening the

616
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:27.199
tent. And I tried to imitate
his voice, but it'll do a very

617
00:53:27.199 --> 00:53:30.920
good job. But elbows me and
he goes, Jeff, move over,

618
00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:43.960
you're squashing me. You have fun? Tells the story something he was.

619
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:49.559
Yeah, he's such a fun guy. That's awesome. So do you wanna

620
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:52.639
do you wanna tell us about?
So? I want to talk about Actually

621
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:55.280
one question is is so I'm going
to try to pull this up on the

622
00:53:55.320 --> 00:54:01.800
screen. So if if anyone who
does not know, uh, doctor Jeff's

623
00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:09.159
first book is this Sasquatch Legend Science, which we happen to have a copy

624
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:16.440
here, is there going to be
a part two? Oh sure, in

625
00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:22.719
fact, more likely now than I
just keep getting sidetracked. So when I

626
00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:30.079
was working, excuse me, furiously
on the sequel I got, I was

627
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:37.039
approached by Paradise K Publishing about writing
the Field Guide, which grew out of

628
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:40.400
at least my concept of a field
guide on this subject, grew out of

629
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:47.599
their query. And then subsequent to
that that was very well received, and

630
00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:55.159
so I was my sequel was going
to be a project in which I cast

631
00:54:55.280 --> 00:55:01.880
the net more broadly to place sasquatch
in the broader context of other relic commonoids.

632
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:07.920
And so I was, you know, working furiously on that, and

633
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:13.519
I've got and had been collecting and
collating and organizing my materials and had the

634
00:55:14.119 --> 00:55:21.280
chapters outlined and largely fleshed out to
the degree so that that book is probably

635
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:27.000
about two thirds done. I mean
the figures alone, it's like the first

636
00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:31.440
book. You know, I'm very
visual learner and teacher, and so there's

637
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:36.719
like one hundred and fifty figures in
that book. It's it's well illustrated,

638
00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:42.159
and you know, I thought,
oh, I'll knock out these figures in

639
00:55:42.239 --> 00:55:45.920
a couple of weeks. It took
me all summer, took me over three

640
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:52.199
months to select and to crop and
to mask and get the formatting, you

641
00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.599
know, even throughout, and write
all the captions and give credit where credit

642
00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:00.400
was due, or seek permission to
use different illustrations. And it was a

643
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:06.440
big chore anyway. So with the
success of the Field Guide, I thought,

644
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:09.639
well, man, that's such a
good format. Let's do a shrunken

645
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:14.360
head of what I'm working on now. And that's how the second Field Guide,

646
00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:20.320
the Guide to wild Men around the
World. So that's kind of an

647
00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:24.599
abstract of what the next book will
go will be. Well, then I

648
00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:32.760
got sidetracked with my series of activity
books for young learners and had so much

649
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:37.760
fun. I mean it was it
was just a fortuitous, you know,

650
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:44.000
crossing of the stars. It's a
funny, funny story how that finally came

651
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:45.719
to be just real, real,
short version was, I was approached by

652
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:52.920
a licensing attorney inquiring on behalf of
a client if I would consider having my

653
00:56:52.360 --> 00:57:00.760
likeness depicted in an action figure.
I just what are you kidding me?

654
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:04.719
And that I thought about it.
I thought, you know, wouldn't that

655
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:07.880
be cool, you know, in
field garb and then you'd have your binoculars

656
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:14.440
and you'd have your little parabolic have
vision, you know, flear and of

657
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:17.760
course then you'd have to have the
relic comonoid you're searching for. And then

658
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:25.440
there there you could have little plastic
footprint casts. That too young. But

659
00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:30.119
when there were the collectible space coins
and things that you would snap into this

660
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:36.880
embossed plastic frame that you could pop
them into and collect them, I thought,

661
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:42.239
wouldn't that be great to have little
accurate similes a footprint cast that you

662
00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:46.639
could snap into these and there would
be a little annotation or collection. Well,

663
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:51.480
gee, then you've got to have
a workbook, an activity book to

664
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.679
go with each of these relic commonoids, and bring in the ecology and the

665
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:59.880
geography. I mean, that's how
I learned the continents and the mountain ranges

666
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:04.360
where the forests were, was reading
Ivan Sanderson's book over and over and over

667
00:58:04.400 --> 00:58:08.039
again. Yes, describe all the
biogeography, and I thought, could do

668
00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:14.639
all this stuff, and you could
have activities and puzzles and stickers, and

669
00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:19.360
and then it's so funny because it
sounds, well, what happened, it

670
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:22.559
didn't. I'm given the long versions. You can tell them it didn't.

671
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:30.400
They could license my image, but
they couldn't patent an image of Bigfoot,

672
00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:34.000
so someone could come along and do
a walkoff, and they couldn't control it

673
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:36.960
enough, so they didn't think that
would be marketable. So it kind of

674
00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:45.800
fizzled and it languished well, to
my chagrin. Everybody has action figures.

675
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:50.639
There's a Lauren Coleman action figure.
There's a I think it does have.

676
00:58:50.840 --> 00:58:52.400
Well, there's a guy. There's
a guy I think he's down in Texas

677
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:58.559
that doesn't. Yeah, but doctor
Mildrom action figure. You know, I'm

678
00:58:58.599 --> 00:59:00.840
gonna have to fix that. I
don't know, but I'm going to read

679
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.039
this time. I'm past my prime
now. I don't know if I want

680
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.480
to. We should like pass out
a petition and everybody could sign it.

681
00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:14.360
And so anyway, this idea of
the the activity books always kind of rattled

682
00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:17.679
around there in the back of my
noggin. Here and and then I was

683
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:23.480
asked to write a blurb for a
book that was illustrated, written and illustrated

684
00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:30.400
by uh, well, his names
he went by a pseudonym for but Glenn

685
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.840
Evans, and he was also getting
it published. I actually, I think

686
00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:37.039
I think I have to take credit
for that directed him, referred him to

687
00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:44.880
uh a Paradise k as a potential
publisher for his work, and I was

688
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:47.760
so taken by his illustrations. You
know, it's kind of illustrations that I

689
00:59:47.880 --> 00:59:53.920
wanted in my activity book. And
I broached this, this project idea with

690
00:59:54.079 --> 00:59:59.199
him, and he was just delighted
because he had always wanted to do something

691
00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:02.880
just like this anyway, so we
threw in together and came to an agreement,

692
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:08.559
and I would crank out the concept, you know, just composite it

693
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:14.719
and cut and paste and patchwork it
together with with UH you know, borrowed

694
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:20.800
placeholder illustrations or quick sketches and in
a PowerPoint so I could edit and move

695
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:25.280
things around real easily, and then
wrote the text the copy, and off

696
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.880
I'd send it to him and man
in short order, matter of a couple

697
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.199
of weeks, here was the finished
product, with all the illustrations re drawn,

698
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:37.960
you know, all this original art, and it was just amazing,

699
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:40.400
and so I had so much fun. Well, and it was his fault

700
01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:45.400
because he wrote, I mean I
focused it on Sasquatch obviously, and he

701
01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:52.159
wrote Sasquatch Edition, you know,
Doctor Meldrum's Activity and Learning Book for Young

702
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:55.280
Readers or whatever, and then and
then said Sasquatch edition. I go,

703
01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.960
well, if there's a Sasquatch edition, there's got to be a Yetti edition.

704
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:05.239
Almost addition, and I even got
to which I had kind of ignored

705
01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:10.519
in my previous writing. The Yawi
tackled that with a lot of equivocation,

706
01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:16.519
because it's a it's it's there's a
lot of unknowns, a lot of inconsistency.

707
01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:21.880
I mean, the one page says
it all where there it's a montage

708
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:25.320
of all of the footprints attributed to
the Yawi, and no two of them

709
01:01:25.360 --> 01:01:30.480
are anywhere near the same ballpark.
They're you know, three toed, four

710
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:35.480
toed, five toe, divergent toe, non divergent toe, you know,

711
01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:37.760
around like an elephant, long,
like a lizard. I mean it's just

712
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:45.239
like a kangaroo more than a lizard. Anyway, So the short I keep

713
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:51.679
getting sidetracked. Now, it's easy
to do that with us well as far

714
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:54.480
as coming up with a with a
number two, a volume two sequel.

715
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:01.199
But then Doug Hicheck now has proposed
to doing Sasquatch leg Me science too,

716
01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:07.639
to kind of bring it up to
speed on the latest and greatest evidence and

717
01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:13.159
advances in various analytical techniques and so
forth, and so we were we were

718
01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:16.199
on the phone brainstorming. He was
picking my brain for ideas and what are

719
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:20.039
the what should we include in this
chapter? In this chapter, and he

720
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:22.480
said, well, now you're going
to write the companion volume, right,

721
01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:25.760
so I'm trying to get a jump
on it. So that's a very different

722
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:32.679
that's almost like a second edition of
Sasquatch Meat Science. It's not really a

723
01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:37.559
sequel. It's just an expansion,
uh, you know, revised expanded edition

724
01:02:37.719 --> 01:02:42.000
of Sasquatch Legend Meat Science kind of
is what it's it'll end up being,

725
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.280
I think. But yeah, and
if you have to write your book at

726
01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:50.840
the same time that Doug does something, good luck because he does not sleep

727
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:54.039
like he is the hardest worker.
He's got like a thousand things going on,

728
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:59.920
right. Yeah, he's amazing.
Keeps us on our Yes he does.

729
01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:06.360
And a quick side note about Glenn. I just met him not via

730
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.840
email and social media, about a
week or so ago and didn't realize that

731
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:13.800
he was the graphic artist on those
books until it just came out. I

732
01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:15.559
guess, oh, yeah, this
is these are my books. I said,

733
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:19.079
oh wow, interesting small world.
But yeah, I just we're talking

734
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:21.559
about you know, yeah, he's
going to send me one of his books.

735
01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:23.840
So that's just really cool, madam. And didn't even realize who he

736
01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:29.159
was because he had the pseudo name
you know, yes, exactly, Bill

737
01:03:29.239 --> 01:03:31.719
is Strong. Yeah, so well, so well, doctor Jeff. We

738
01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:35.199
don't want to keep you because we
know that you're still Are you still in

739
01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:38.119
your office at work? I am, yeah, but you're you You've got

740
01:03:38.159 --> 01:03:42.440
a three hour time difference, right, two hours? Okay, so you're

741
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:47.119
okay? Oh yeah, I can
keep you longer. No, maybe we

742
01:03:47.199 --> 01:03:50.880
have time for one more question.
Do you want to ask the questions?

743
01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:52.519
Do you want to ask? I
kind of like this question. This might

744
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:57.400
be really hard for you to answer
shortly, but try do your best.

745
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:01.440
So because this is very interesting to
me. And then this was a question

746
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:05.239
that Tim and I were thinking about
last night. And so in your opinion,

747
01:04:05.719 --> 01:04:12.239
in your professional opinion, why why
have a humans developed so differently from

748
01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:17.119
other living primates? Like why are
we so smart? Yeah? Yeah,

749
01:04:17.360 --> 01:04:20.599
well, as Bubba says, we're
not smart because we pay taxes. Oh,

750
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:26.639
I have jobs. But seriously,
like we are so so smart,

751
01:04:26.639 --> 01:04:29.960
We're doing crazy, crazy stuff.
And then you still have other primates who

752
01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:32.599
are hanging around in the trees.
And you know what makes us so smart?

753
01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:41.000
Yeah, well, you know,
without delving into spiritualism and religion and

754
01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:45.880
so forth. I mean, if
you are so inclined, there's that whole

755
01:04:45.480 --> 01:04:56.079
dimension that what we see is just
simply the expression of natural laws that were

756
01:04:56.840 --> 01:05:03.440
authored by a higher power, you
know, and that that we are that

757
01:05:03.800 --> 01:05:12.719
the circumstances were were manipulated. I
mean, it's basically a divine ancient astronauts

758
01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:21.559
hypothesis. You know, it's the
idea of a more advanced being, whether

759
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:29.880
it be God or whether it be
an alien or manipulated circumstances. Because see,

760
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:40.239
evolution isn't random. Mutation is random, but natural selection is very directed

761
01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:48.400
directed in the sense that it it
channels the variation from the variation those that

762
01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:55.119
are best suited to survive in the
current conditions. But the system is so

763
01:05:55.320 --> 01:06:03.960
elegant because by continually preserving variability,
even though there's the cost to those who

764
01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:09.840
aren't well adapted. It's like having
an insurance policy. And I tell my

765
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:12.760
students, you know, how many
of you have a car? Do you

766
01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:17.679
have insurance? Well? Is that
a financial drain on you? You know

767
01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:21.079
is, in other words, there's
a cost to you. But what would

768
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:26.159
the cost be if you got in
an accident, a catastrophic accident, and

769
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:33.000
didn't have insurance. So same with
evolution, we're facing as a biasphere.

770
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:42.280
We face a changing environment and if
we're too locked in to the most optimal

771
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:53.599
adaptation or condition strategy right now down
the road, those conditions may change and

772
01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:58.599
if we don't have the flexibility or
the variation to fall back on, then

773
01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:03.239
we go extinct species. So going
back, stepping back to that notion of

774
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:14.199
random mutation, scientists, geneticists in
particularly, are now starting to hone in

775
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:21.199
on those particular genes that seemed to
have the greatest impact on brain development.

776
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:30.400
And basically it looks like what prompted
those bursts of brain development, it wasn't

777
01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:35.400
just a gradual increase, you know, like you're exercising your muscle, but

778
01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:42.280
rather a duplication of a gene caused
just an inordinate increase in brain size.

779
01:07:43.400 --> 01:07:48.920
And so those random events, if
they're purely random, you know, if

780
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:56.760
there is no interference on some level, it was the luck of the draw,

781
01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:00.159
basically, the luck of the roll
of the dice. Rather, you

782
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:06.679
know, the lottery ticket that gave
some ancestor a duplicated gene that caused increase

783
01:08:06.760 --> 01:08:13.000
in brain size. Now there would
be obviously some gradual accumulation of the effects

784
01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:15.760
of that, but perhaps I mean, it wasn't well, you know,

785
01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:19.640
it could could be quite abrupt.
Who knows, I mean, how that

786
01:08:20.439 --> 01:08:27.239
transition would have taken place in a
in a prehistoric setting. But you know,

787
01:08:27.359 --> 01:08:34.439
that's that that if you want to
take a purely naturalistic approach without appealing

788
01:08:34.560 --> 01:08:44.920
to extraordinary factors or influences, then
it's a matter of genetics. And that's

789
01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:50.319
the thing that you know, people
are understanding. I mean, back back

790
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:54.880
when I was a student, it
was just starting to give way. But

791
01:08:55.039 --> 01:09:00.399
back then it was the the axiom
in genetics was one gene, one product,

792
01:09:00.439 --> 01:09:05.840
one protein. You know, it
was thought that that that the DNA

793
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:15.760
template was this essentially was a blueprint. It was, and now we've discovered

794
01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:20.079
no, it's a recipe more than
a blueprint. And there's all kinds of

795
01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:24.840
other things that you know, it
makes a difference how long you beat those

796
01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:28.359
eggs, you know, not just
the fact that the eggs are there,

797
01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:30.079
or if the oven is preheated or
not, or if it's at altitude.

798
01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:35.399
I mean, in other words,
there's all these nuances and the expression of

799
01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:43.279
genes are a tremendous interplay. And
so now they've discovered that there are genes

800
01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:47.960
the control genes, So they're they're
kind of the they're like rheostats. You

801
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:53.399
can turn up the brightness, contrast
the volume the hue and so forth,

802
01:09:53.479 --> 01:10:00.319
and and uh and can and control
the rates or the timing of expression of

803
01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:10.800
genes that affect not only developmental trajectories, but but duration of of uh,

804
01:10:11.640 --> 01:10:14.800
you know, the process of maturation
or the growth. You know. We

805
01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:17.920
we kind of are on a similar
trajectory when it comes to brain growth with

806
01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:25.800
chimpanzees, except though when chimpanzees sort
of plateau, we just keep going as

807
01:10:25.840 --> 01:10:30.039
a result of those duplicated genes,
We just keep going until we hit a

808
01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:34.359
plateau much much higher. So every
species that you know, it's rather than

809
01:10:36.199 --> 01:10:43.640
then view nature as it was often
viewed in the past, as this scale,

810
01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:49.560
you know, the scale of nature
with us as the acme, instead

811
01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:57.600
of rather viewing us as one terminal
branch on this bushy tree, and organisms

812
01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:03.359
along each of those branches have been
evolving in their own way to their particular

813
01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:09.520
niche, their particular habitat, and
as long as they're successful. I mean,

814
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:13.720
that's the bottom line, is getting
your genes into the next generation.

815
01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:18.279
And obviously we outsurvived some of the
other Homo genus species, so there was

816
01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:25.000
others out there, so we just
you know, that's that's what the exciting

817
01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:32.039
part is, this grandiose attitude that
we are the end all and we are

818
01:11:32.119 --> 01:11:36.920
the lord and master of the of
the planet. Whether we are or not.

819
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:45.000
I mean, there are other I'm
convinced other bipedlehamanis, other twigs on

820
01:11:45.079 --> 01:11:48.520
this pushy tree that have persisted alongside
us right up to the present. It's

821
01:11:48.600 --> 01:11:55.359
exciting, it's exciting, so awesome, We're so we're so excited to have

822
01:11:55.600 --> 01:11:57.640
you. So just real quick,
before you go, though, what are

823
01:11:57.720 --> 01:12:01.319
some upcoming events that are going to
be attending and how do people follow you

824
01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:04.800
and all that fun stuff? Well, the best way I try to post

825
01:12:04.880 --> 01:12:09.159
on my Facebook page when upcoming things. I don't have a web page per

826
01:12:09.199 --> 01:12:13.920
se that I have those kind of
things. I guess I should think about

827
01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:17.359
getting serious about doing that. The
next event that I have is coming up

828
01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:23.640
in actually just a couple of weeks
up in Spokane, there's a big outdoor

829
01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:29.079
expo and they have decided to include
a Sasquatch element, so I'll be given

830
01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:31.319
a presentation in many a booth.
It will be a very different experience,

831
01:12:31.399 --> 01:12:36.119
I think than a typical a Sasquatch
conference, but there's a number of them

832
01:12:36.199 --> 01:12:44.479
coming up. I'm really excited about
our trip the crews up the Inside Passage

833
01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:50.039
to the Alaska Panhandle and the anchorage
and back. That's something I've always wanted

834
01:12:50.079 --> 01:12:55.560
to do. And I think you
know that coast of the British Columbia and

835
01:12:55.760 --> 01:13:06.119
southeastern Alaska if you haven't read Rob
Ali's books on Yeah, wait are you

836
01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:12.880
talking about like the cruise ship cruise. There's the cruise cruise. Oh my

837
01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:16.399
gosh. So you're gonna be there, to doctor Jeff, Yeah, oh

838
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:20.279
my god. Tim has I've always
wanted to go to Alaska, but Tim

839
01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:29.000
won't go. He doesn't like the
cold. That's why I haven't been been

840
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:32.960
to the state university yet. Well, there's going to be another event in

841
01:13:33.279 --> 01:13:40.720
mid Florida. Don't like the heat, so I don't want to go to

842
01:13:40.800 --> 01:13:44.600
Florida for the heat. He doesn't
want to know you're going to Alaska.

843
01:13:44.920 --> 01:13:50.399
Okay, so that's super cool.
So it's basically a cruise that can anybody

844
01:13:50.479 --> 01:13:59.680
can go on. Well, the
the organizer has blocked out, you know,

845
01:14:00.039 --> 01:14:10.359
a certain number of cabins and facilities
for several evening presentations there when once

846
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:15.920
the word got out other people who
had booked because the cruise line sort of

847
01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:18.319
featured it on their web page.
They have a Facebook page for each cruise

848
01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:21.359
so people can kind of get up
to speed on what's going to happen and

849
01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:24.960
so forth. At least that's what
I've been told that haven't been there to

850
01:14:25.560 --> 01:14:30.800
the page myself, but I was
told that they had publicized the Bigfoot talks,

851
01:14:30.880 --> 01:14:40.159
the Bigfoot events rather for the registered
guests of the symposium, But other

852
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:45.079
people who aren't specifically registered for the
conference, who are going to be on

853
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:48.520
the cruise got into this and they
go, hey, you know, is

854
01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:55.720
it going to be Can we buy
tickets to this? He's looking at probably

855
01:14:55.880 --> 01:15:00.840
I mean an extra oh, I
don't know, forty two one hundred people

856
01:15:00.920 --> 01:15:03.600
for all I know, you know, what the capacity of his auditorium is.

857
01:15:04.119 --> 01:15:09.039
He'll be able to sell it with
others on a on a you know,

858
01:15:09.119 --> 01:15:14.439
by event by a ticket. That's
so super cool. Yeah, but

859
01:15:14.560 --> 01:15:18.600
then there'll be a short excursions there's
this cruise has actually a few ports of

860
01:15:18.720 --> 01:15:25.640
call, but he's made arrangements to
have activities, some of which are very

861
01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:30.039
sasquatch related and so forth, and
or just to take in the habitat and

862
01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:34.319
be able to go and rub shoulders
with some of us on a on a

863
01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:41.000
more informal basis. But it should
be really interesting, you know, it

864
01:15:41.039 --> 01:15:46.239
should be really fun. And and
obviously the the audience can can just google

865
01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:51.600
search to relict with a T hominoid
inquiry. Yes, that will take you

866
01:15:51.720 --> 01:15:59.359
to the Idaho State University landing page
and there's a ton of just a ton

867
01:15:59.359 --> 01:16:01.119
of things on there. So I'd
also recommend everybody do that as well.

868
01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:06.640
Yeah, a good way to keep
up with some of the latest publications.

869
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:15.359
It provides a venue for scholarly papers. Although now we've added a citizen science

870
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:25.119
category and we have a representation Shelley
coming to Montana's representing citizens science on the

871
01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:30.239
board editorial board, and so we're
encouraging non academics. You don't have to

872
01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:36.600
have those degrees behind your name to
participate, you know, just be willing

873
01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:44.840
to accept some constructive criticism and guidance
and editorial guidance and getting your your publication

874
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:46.800
up to snuff. If it is
still going to be reviewed, it's still

875
01:16:46.840 --> 01:16:54.079
going to be you know, critically
evaluated for credibility and merit and so forth.

876
01:16:54.800 --> 01:16:59.199
But you know, there's so much
interesting stuff being done by quote amateurs,

877
01:16:59.760 --> 01:17:05.279
right, we want to encourage that
to be done in a reliable way

878
01:17:05.399 --> 01:17:11.479
with integrity. We thank you so
much, doctor Jeff for being on the

879
01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:14.880
show. We look forward to seeing
you in the future. I'm sure we'll

880
01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:19.279
we'll catch up with you somewhere this
year. But yeah, that's a shame,

881
01:17:19.359 --> 01:17:25.159
but we'll see you somewhere hopefully well. And I'm happy to come back

882
01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:29.119
and chat with you again sometimes.
Yeah, that would be Thank you,

883
01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:31.520
doctor Jeff. Take care, Thanks
again for your time, have a great

884
01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:38.239
night. Thank you. Doctor Jeff
is so cool. It's amazing, it

885
01:17:38.319 --> 01:17:44.960
was going to be. He's just
not such a just love and he's he's

886
01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:47.319
very good at explaining stuff. I
mean, I guess that's why he's a

887
01:17:47.399 --> 01:17:50.359
professor, you know, because he's
teaching people. But I mean, like

888
01:17:50.439 --> 01:17:55.960
he's really good at explaining stuff.
And even if you don't know all the

889
01:17:56.079 --> 01:18:01.159
lingo or all the everything. He
makes it understandable definitely. So you guys,

890
01:18:02.239 --> 01:18:05.239
thanks for tuning in. I hope
you get a enough out of this.

891
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:09.279
I mean, this is just an
amazing episode. We appreciate each and

892
01:18:09.319 --> 01:18:13.399
every one of you. You guys
are the best, and we're just having

893
01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:15.960
a blast on this. Of course, you know, every guest we have

894
01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:19.199
on here is amazing upcoming. We've
got, you know, the one and

895
01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:24.560
only Doug Hicheck, so we may
get it more into Sasquat's legend meet Science

896
01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:30.439
too. Uh. And then we
I think Bob Strain's coming up, Todd

897
01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:33.239
Prescott's coming up, We've got another
witness that we you know, witness episode

898
01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:36.800
we may be doing. And there's
just a ton of ton of fun people

899
01:18:38.079 --> 01:18:41.680
coming up. You know, I
chatted with the one only Matt Pruitt,

900
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:44.359
so hopefully we get him on the
show soon. We're just gonna have fun

901
01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:47.000
and hopefully you guys are getting this
is really we want to help make this

902
01:18:47.199 --> 01:18:51.039
educational. Hopefully even you folks out
there who know a lot more than me,

903
01:18:51.640 --> 01:18:54.800
hopefully you learn something new. I
mean, I think even listening to

904
01:18:54.840 --> 01:18:57.680
Jeff today, hopefully there's something new
that everyone picks up. So we just

905
01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:00.359
thank you guys again. Thank you, and hey, don't forget to follow

906
01:19:00.439 --> 01:19:04.319
us. We're on Facebook, we're
on Instagram, We're on Twitter. You

907
01:19:04.399 --> 01:19:09.119
can also find Tim's book, where's
your book? Getting right here? Tim's

908
01:19:09.199 --> 01:19:14.039
book The Bigfoot Influencers Member. We
are not the influencers. We interview the

909
01:19:14.159 --> 01:19:17.039
influencers. You can find it everywhere. Just sign it everywhere. Good to

910
01:19:17.079 --> 01:19:20.199
our website and then you can I've
got it links to everything you could.

911
01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:26.199
There's autographed copies out there a certain
bookstores, so we appreciate support. You

912
01:19:26.239 --> 01:20:05.600
guys are the best. Yep,
we'll see you next. Thanks again. Sh