WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:16.079 You were listening to the Back Radio Network to Network. Welcome back fact hunters 2 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:19.679 and truth seekers from around the world. It's time for another edition of our 3 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:24.160 classic audio series Today. It comes from nineteen eighty two and it is G. 4 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:30.079 Edward Griffin, author of the book The Creature from Jekyll Island, interviews 5 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:36.159 the one and only Norman Dodd, who was a banker financial advisor, but 6 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:41.560 he also served as chief investigator way back in nineteen fifty three for the Special 7 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:48.960 Committee on Tax Exempt Foundations, which is commonly referred to today as the Reese 8 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:55.880 Committee, and it was chaired by US Congressman Carol Reese and Dodd was primarily 9 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:02.920 known for his controversial investigation into said tax exempt foundations, which is something that 10 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:08.439 we bring up so often on this podcast. And one of the biggest researchers 11 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:17.439 of Dodd and G. Edward Griffin was Peter Conti Brown. Of all places, 12 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:21.159 the Wharton School, and we have talked about the Wharton Business School at 13 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.879 nauseum as well. That's where Trump went to, That's where Elon Musk went 14 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:29.920 to. So this piece will I mean not necessarily in the audio, but 15 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.840 it really does bring a lot of the dots together connects a lot of dots. 16 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.079 You're really going to enjoy this again. This is from you know, 17 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:44.480 forty one years ago. This is g. Edward Griffin interviewing Norman Dodd again 18 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:52.319 from nineteen eighty two about tax exempt foundations and their hidden agenda for this new 19 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:56.640 world order. And here is the audio. The story you were about to 20 00:01:56.680 --> 00:02:01.200 hear represents a missing piece in the puzzle of modern history. Without this knowledge, 21 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:07.080 many contemporary events are simply beyond understanding. You are about to hear a 22 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:13.039 man tell you that the major tax exempt foundations of this land since at least 23 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:17.919 nineteen forty five, have been operating to promote a hidden agenda, and that 24 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:23.319 agenda has nothing to do with the surface appearance of charity, good works, 25 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:29.360 or philanthropy. This man will tell you that the real objectives include the creation 26 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:34.479 of a worldwide collective estate, including the Soviet Union, which is to be 27 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:38.759 ruled from behind the scenes by those same interests which now control the tax exempt 28 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:45.639 foundations. The man who tells this story is none other than mister Norman Dodd, 29 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:51.240 who in nineteen fifty four was the staff director of the Congressional Special Committee 30 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:57.159 to Investigate tax Exempt Foundations. Sometimes referred to as the Rees Committee in recognition 31 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:01.639 of its chairman, Congressman Carol Reese. The interview you are about to see 32 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:07.639 was conducted by me in nineteen eighty two. I had no immediate use for 33 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.639 the material at that time, but I realized that mister Dodd's story was of 34 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:15.360 extreme importance, and since he was advanced in age and not in good health, 35 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:20.960 I simply wanted to capture his recollections on videotape while he was still with 36 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.879 us. It was a wise decision because mister Dodd did pass away just a 37 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:30.199 short time afterward. In recent months there has been a resurgence of interest in 38 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:35.240 the substance of mister Dodd's story, and we have decided to make it available 39 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:39.680 to the general public. And so what now follows is the full unedited interview, 40 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:44.599 broken occasionally only for a tape change or to omit the sound of a 41 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:50.199 passing aeroplane. It stands on its own as an important piece in the puzzle 42 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:55.080 of modern history. Mister Dodd, Let's begin this interview by a brief statement 43 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.840 for the record, telling us who you are, what your background is, 44 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:08.360 in your qualifications to speak on the subject. Well, mister Griffin as for 45 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:15.040 who I am, I am just as the name implies, an individual born 46 00:04:15.160 --> 00:04:27.279 in New Jersey and educated in private schools, eventually in a school called Andover, 47 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:34.439 Massachusetts, and then Yale University, and running through my whole period of 48 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:41.759 being brought up. Growing up, I have been an indefatigable reader, and 49 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:48.120 I have had one major interest, and that was this country as I was 50 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:58.000 led to believe it was originally founded. And I entered the world of business 51 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:09.879 knowing absolutely nothing about how that world operated, and realized that the only way 52 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:14.839 to find out what that world was consisted of would be to become part of 53 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:23.839 it. And I then acquired some experience in the manufacturing world, and then 54 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:30.959 in the world of international communication, and finally chose banking as the field I 55 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:38.120 wished to devote my life to. And I was fortunate enough to secure a 56 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:46.000 position in one of the important banks in New York and lived there. I 57 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:56.600 lived through the conditions which led up to what is known as the Crash of 58 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:08.319 nineteen twenty nine, and I witnessed what has to a collapse of the structure 59 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:14.959 of the United States as a whole, and much to my surprise, I 60 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:21.839 was confronted by my superiors with a in the middle of the panic in which 61 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:30.240 they were immersed, I was confronted with a question, Norm, what do 62 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:34.680 we do now? I was thirty at the time, and I had no 63 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.360 more right to have an answer to that question than the man in the moon. 64 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:47.279 However, I did manage to say to my superiors, gentlemen, you 65 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.600 take this experience as proof is something that you do not know about banking, 66 00:06:53.959 --> 00:07:00.639 and you better go find out what that something is an actor. Accordingly, 67 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:09.439 four days later I was confronted by the same superiors with a statement to the 68 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:19.839 effect that, Norm, you go find out. And I really was fool 69 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:28.000 enough to accept that assignment, because it meant that you were going out to 70 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:32.160 search for something and nobody could tell you what you were looking for. But 71 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:40.399 I felt so strongly on the subject that I consented to I was relieved of 72 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:48.639 all normal duties inside the bank, and two and a half years later, 73 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:55.399 I felt that it was possible to report back to those who had given me 74 00:07:55.519 --> 00:08:03.839 this assignment, and so I rendered such a report. And as a result 75 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:09.160 of the report I rendered, I was told the following, Norm, what 76 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:15.360 you're saying is we should return to sound banking, And I said yes, 77 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:20.680 in essence, that's exactly what I am saying. Whereupon I got my first 78 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:28.959 shock, which was a statement from them to this effect, we will never 79 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.480 see sound banking in the United States again, and they cited chapter and verse 80 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:41.080 to support that statement, and what they cited was as follows. Since the 81 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:46.960 end of World War One, we have been responsible for what they call the 82 00:08:48.039 --> 00:08:58.960 institutionalizing of conflicting interests, and they are so prevalent inside this country that they 83 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:05.879 can never be envolved. This came to me as an extraordinary shock because the 84 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:13.679 men who made the statement were men who were deemed as the most prominent bankers 85 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:20.200 in the country. The bank of which I was a part was spoken of 86 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:28.559 as a Morgan bank, and coming from men of that caliber, a statement 87 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:39.840 of that kind made a tremendous impression on me. And the type of impression 88 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:46.000 that had made on me was I wondered if I, as an individual in 89 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:54.320 it's what they call a junior officer of the bank, could with the same 90 00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:01.080 enthusiasm forster the progress and the policies of the bank. I spent about a 91 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:07.120 year trying to think this out, and came to the conclusion that I would 92 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:16.039 have to resign I did resign, and as a consequence of that, had 93 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:22.559 this experience. When my letter of resignation reached the desk of the president of 94 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:30.240 the bank, he sent for me, and then he and I came to 95 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.720 visit with him, and he stated to me, norm I have your letter, 96 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.919 but I don't believe you understand what's happened in the last ten days. 97 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.679 I said, no, mister Carchrane, I have no idea what's happened. 98 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:48.600 Well, he said, the directors have never been able to get your report 99 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:56.039 to them out of their mind, and as a result, they have decided 100 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.039 that you, as an individual, must begin at once, and you must 101 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:13.480 reorganize this bank in keeping with your own ideas. And he then said, 102 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:20.840 now can I tear up your letter? And inasmuch as what had been said 103 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:26.279 to me was offering me, at the age of by then thirty three about 104 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:33.000 his fine an opportunity for service to the country, as I could imagine, 105 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.759 I said yes. And they said they wished me to begin at once, 106 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:50.120 and I did, and suddenly, in the span of about six weeks, 107 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:54.720 I was not permitted to do another piece of work. And every time I 108 00:11:54.759 --> 00:12:00.600 brought the subject up, I was kind of patted on the back and said 109 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:07.600 and told stop worrying about it, nor I'm pretty soon you'll be a vice 110 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:13.600 president and then you'll haven't quite a handsome salary and ultimately be able to retire 111 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:20.879 on a very worthwhile pension, and the meantime you can play golf and tennis 112 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:28.039 the arts content on weekends. Well, mister Griffin, I found I couldn't 113 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:33.559 do it. I spent a year with my figure that leaven my feet on 114 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:39.000 the desk, doing nothing, and I just couldn't adjust to it. So 115 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:48.960 I did resign, and this time that my resignation stuck. And then I 116 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:54.360 got my second shock, which was the discovery that the doors of every bank 117 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:58.879 in the United States were closed to me and I never could get a job 118 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:05.480 as it were in the bank. So I found myself for the first time 119 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:11.840 since I graduated from college, out of a job. And from there on 120 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:20.519 I followed various branches of the financial world, ranging from investment counsel to membership 121 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:31.080 of the Socket Change, and finally ended up as as an advisor to a 122 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:39.240 few individuals who had capital funds to look after. In the meantime, my 123 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:50.759 major interests became very specific, which was to endeavor by some means of getting 124 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:58.480 the educational world to actually, you might say, teach the subject of economics 125 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:11.879 really pistically and move it away from the support of various speculative activities that characterize 126 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:18.799 our country. And I have had that interest. And you know how as 127 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:26.679 you generate a specific interest, you find yourself gravitating toward persons with similar interests. 128 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:35.080 And ultimately I found myself kind to the center of the world of dissatisfaction 129 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:46.159 with the direction that this country was headed. And that's on one direction, 130 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:54.080 and it's same way I've found myself in contact with many individuals who on their 131 00:14:54.120 --> 00:15:01.720 own had done a vast amount of studying and research in areas which were part 132 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:11.320 of the problem. And if I may interrupt her for a second, what 133 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.200 point in your career did you become connected with the Rees Committee nineteen hundred and 134 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:22.519 fifty three, nineteen fifty three and what was that capacity, sir? That 135 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:30.399 was the capacity of what they call director of research for the Rees Committee. 136 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.440 Can you tell us what the Rees Committee was attempting to do? Yes, 137 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:41.639 I can tell you it was operating and carrying out instructions embodied in a resolution 138 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:50.399 passed by the House of representatives, which was to investigate the activities of Foundations 139 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:58.559 as to whether or not these activities could justifiably be labeled an American without I 140 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:06.279 might defining what they meant by an Americans. But that was the resolution. 141 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:14.559 And the committee had then the task of selecting a council, and the council 142 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.399 in turn at the task of selecting a staff, and he had to have 143 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:25.000 somebody who would direct the work of that staff. And that was what they 144 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:29.600 meant by the director of research. What were some of the details, the 145 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:34.799 specifics that you told the committee at that time, Well, mister Griffin, 146 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:45.840 in that report, I specifically number one defined what was to us what was 147 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:52.759 meant by the phrase an American, and we defined that in our way as 148 00:16:52.840 --> 00:17:07.640 being a determination to effect change in the country by unconstitutional means. We have 149 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:12.440 plenty of constitutional procedures, assuming that we wish to effect a change in the 150 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.799 form of government of that sort of thing, and therefore any effort in that 151 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:26.079 direction which did not avail itself of the procedures which were authorized by the Constitution 152 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:34.240 could be justifiably called an American. That was the start of educating them up 153 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:41.119 to that particular point. The next thing was to educate them as to the 154 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:51.799 effect on the country as a whole of the activities of a large endowed foundations 155 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:57.920 over the then past forty years. What was that effect? That effect was 156 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:11.880 to orient our educational system over away from support of the principles embodied in the 157 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:18.720 Declaration of Independence and implemented in the Constitution, and educated them over to the 158 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:30.279 idea that the task now was as a result of the orientation of education tom 159 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:41.319 away from these brief principle briefly stated principles and self evident truths. And that's 160 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:51.480 what had been the effect of the wealth which was which constituted the endowments of 161 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:59.119 those foundations that had been in existence over the largest portion of the span of 162 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:08.200 fifty years, and holding them responsible for this change. And what we were 163 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:15.640 able to bring forward was that the that what he had uncovered was the determination 164 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:22.279 of these large endowed foundations, through their trustees, to actually get control over 165 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:29.839 the content of American education. There's quite a bit of publicity given to your 166 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:36.799 conversation with Rowan Gaither. Would you please tell us who he was and what 167 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.119 was that conversation you had with round Gaither was at that time president of the 168 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:52.359 Ford Foundation, and mister Gaither had sent for me when I found it convenient 169 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.960 to be in New York, asked me to call upon him at his office, 170 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:03.279 which I did, and on arrival, after a few amenities, mister 171 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:11.279 Gaither said, mister Dodd, we've asked you to come up here today because 172 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:15.960 we thought that possibly, off the record, you would tell us why the 173 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:27.519 Congress is interested in the activities of foundations such as ourselves. And before I 174 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:33.359 could think of how I would reply to that statement, mister Gayther then went 175 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:40.519 on voluntarily and stated, said, mister Dodd, all of us to have 176 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:48.559 a hand in the making of policies here have had experience, either with the 177 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:56.400 OSS during the war or European Economic administration after the war. We've had experience 178 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:04.000 operating under directives, and these directives emanate and did emanate from the White House. 179 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:11.680 Now we still operate under just such directives. Would you like to know 180 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:17.920 what the substance of these directives is? I said, yes, but together 181 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:22.920 I like very much to know. Whereupon he made this statement to me, 182 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:30.960 namely, mister Dodd, we are here operate on similar in response to similar 183 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:37.359 directives, the substance of which is that we shall use our grant making power 184 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:44.759 so to older life in the United States that it can be comfortably merged with 185 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:52.680 the Soviet Union. Well, parenthetically, mister Griffin, I've nearly fell off 186 00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:03.359 the chair. Of course it didn't. But my response to mister Geyser then 187 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.119 was, or, mister Geyser, I can now answer your first question. 188 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:14.039 You forced the Congress of the United States to spend one hundred and fifty thousand 189 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:21.039 dollars to find out what you've just told me, So why don't you I 190 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:27.599 said, of course, legally you're entitled to make grants for this purpose, 191 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.799 but I don't think you're entitled to withhold that information from the people of the 192 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:38.519 country, to whom you're indebted for your tax exemption. So why don't you 193 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:44.079 tell the people of the country with what you've told me? And his answer 194 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:48.920 was, we would not think of doing any such thing. So then I 195 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.759 said, well, mister Gais, obviously you forced the Congress to spend this 196 00:22:52.960 --> 00:23:00.559 money in order to find out what you've just told me. Mister I've spoken 197 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:07.759 before about some interesting things that were discovered by Catherine Casey at the Carnegie Endowment. 198 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:14.319 Can you tell us that storically, yes, I'm glad to mister Griffin. 199 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:22.000 This experience that you have just referred to came about in response to a 200 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:29.319 letter which I had written to the Carnegie Endowment for International piece asking certain questions 201 00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:37.319 and gathering certain information. And on the arrival of that letter, doctor Johnson, 202 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:42.759 who was then president of the Carnegie Endowment, telephoned me and said, 203 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.920 did I ever come up to New York? And I said yes, I 204 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:52.039 did more or less each weekend. And he said, well, when you're 205 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.440 next year, will you drop in and see us? Which I did, 206 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:03.079 And again on arrival at the office of the Endowment, I found myself in 207 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:11.480 the presence of doctor Joseph Johnson, the president who was a successor to Algier, 208 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:17.079 his two vice presidents, and their own counsel, a partner in the 209 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:26.279 firm of Sullivan and Cromwell. And doctor Johnson said, after again, amenities, 210 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.279 mister Dodd. We have your letter, We can answer all those questions. 211 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.640 Be a great deal of trouble, and we have a counter suggestion. 212 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.279 And our counter suggestion is that if you can spare a member of your staff 213 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:47.279 for two weeks and send that member up to New York, we will give 214 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:52.279 to that member a room in the library and the minute books of this Foundation 215 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:57.640 since its inception, and we think that whatever you want to find out, 216 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:03.319 or the Congress wants to find now, will be obvious from those minutes. 217 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:07.599 Well, my first reaction was they lost their mind. I had a pretty 218 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:15.000 good idea of what those minutes would contain. But I realized that doctor Johnson 219 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:22.359 had only been in office two years, and the other the vice presidents were 220 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.759 relatively young men, and counsel seemed to be also a young man, and 221 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:34.839 I guessed that probably they'd never read the minutes themselves. And so I said, 222 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:40.000 I had somebody I would take it. I would accept their offer. 223 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:47.279 And I went back to Washington, and I selected the member of my staff 224 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:55.599 who was on my staff, having been a practicing attorney in Washington, but 225 00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.880 she was on my staff to precede to it that I didn't break any Congressional 226 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:07.039 procedures or rules. In addition to which she was unsympathetic to the purpose of 227 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:15.119 the investigation. Oh, she was levelheaded and a very reasonably brilliant, capable 228 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:23.559 lady, and her attitude of towards the investigation was what could possibly be wrong 229 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:30.000 with Foundations? They do so much good well in the face of that sincere 230 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:34.720 conviction of Catherine's I went out of my way not to prejudice her in any 231 00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:41.039 way, but I did explain to her that she couldn't possibly cover fifty years 232 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:47.759 of handwritten minutes in two weeks, so she would have to do what we 233 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:53.039 call spot reading, and I blocked out certain periods of time to concentrate on 234 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.640 nor if she went to New York. She came back at the end of 235 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:10.000 two weeks with the following in the way of on dictaphone belts. We are 236 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.680 now at the year nineteen hundred and eight, which was the year that the 237 00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:22.519 Carnegie began operations. And in that year the trustees, meeting for the first 238 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:29.799 time, raise a specific question, which they discussed throughout the balance of the 239 00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:36.279 year in a very learned fashion. And the question is is there any means 240 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:42.640 known more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an 241 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:52.480 entire people? And they conclude that no, no more effective means than war 242 00:27:53.160 --> 00:28:00.160 to that end is known to humanity. So then in nine they raised the 243 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:07.240 second question and discuss it, namely, how do we involve the United States 244 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.519 in a war? Well, I doubt at that time if there was any 245 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:17.680 subject more removed from the thinking of most of the people of this country than 246 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:22.599 its involvement in the war. There were intermittent shows in the Balkans, but 247 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:30.119 I doubt very much if many people even knew where the Balkans was. Then 248 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:37.400 finally they answer that question as followed, we must control the State Department. 249 00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:45.680 And then that very naturally raises the question of how do we do that, 250 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:53.680 and they answer it by saying, we must take over it and control the 251 00:28:53.759 --> 00:29:04.319 diplomatic machinery of this country. And finally they resolve to aim at that as 252 00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:15.400 an objective. Then time passes and we are eventually in a war which would 253 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:23.000 have been World War One. And at that time they record on their minutes 254 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:36.640 a shocking report on which they dispatched to President Wilson a telegram cautioning him to 255 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:42.680 see that the war does not end too quickly. And finally, of course, 256 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:51.200 we are the war is over. At that time their interest shifts over 257 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:56.279 to preventing what they call a reversion of life in the United States to what 258 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:02.400 it was prior to nineteen hundred and fourteen when World War One broke out, 259 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:08.559 and they arrive at that point, they come to the conclusion that to prevent 260 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:15.960 a reversion, we must control education in the United States, and they realize 261 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:21.920 that that's a pretty big task, so it's to them it is too big 262 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:30.359 for them alone. So they approach the Rockefeller Foundation with a suggestion that that 263 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:37.400 portion of education which is could be considered domestic be handled by the Rockefeller Foundation, 264 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:42.279 and that portion which is international, should be handled by the Endowment. 265 00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:52.160 And they then decide that the key to the success of these two operations lay 266 00:30:52.519 --> 00:31:00.359 in an olation of the teaching of American history. So they approach four of 267 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:07.640 the then most prominent teachers of American history in the country, people like Charles 268 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:17.799 and Mary Bird, and their suggestion to them is will they alter the manner 269 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.880 which they present the subject? And they get turned down flat. So they 270 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:29.559 then decide that it is necessary for them to do as they say, build 271 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:37.480 our own stable of historians. And then they approach the Guggenheim Foundation, which 272 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:47.160 specializes in fellowships, and say, when we find young men in the process 273 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:52.160 of studying for doctorates in the field of American history, and we feel that 274 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:57.480 they are the right caliber, will you grant them fellowships on our say so? 275 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:06.400 And the answer is yes. So under that condition, eventually they assemble 276 00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:16.519 twenty and they take this twenty potential teachers of American history to London and they're 277 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:24.799 they're briefed into what is expected of them when as and if they secure appointments 278 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:36.440 in keeping with the doctorates they will have earned. And that that group of 279 00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:45.720 twenty historians ultimately becomes a nucleus of the American Historical Association. And then towards 280 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:52.039 the end of the nineteen twenties, the Endowment grants to the American Historical Association 281 00:32:52.519 --> 00:33:00.279 four hundred thousand dollars for a study of our history in a manner which points 282 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:09.279 to what can this country be can it look forward to in the future, 283 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:21.920 And that culminates in a seven volume study book study, the last volume of 284 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.880 which is of course an essence at summary of the contents of the other six 285 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:31.599 And the essence of the last volume is the future of this country belongs to 286 00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:45.240 collectivism administered with characteristic American efficiency. That's the story that ultimately grew out of 287 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:52.720 and of course was what could have been presented by the members of this Congressional 288 00:33:52.720 --> 00:34:00.119 Committee to the Congress as a whole for just exactly what it said. They 289 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.759 never got to that point. This is the story that emerged from the minutes 290 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.320 of the of the Carnegie Fund. That's kind of getting down with that's right, 291 00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:13.760 and so it was official to that extent. I see, and Catherine 292 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:19.800 Casey brought all of these back in the form of dictated notes or verbatim readings 293 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:24.719 of the of the minutes undicta phone belts. Are those in existence today? 294 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:32.519 I don't know if they are. They they're somewhere in the archives under the 295 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:39.159 under the control of the Congress House of Representatives. How many people actually heard 296 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:45.639 those or were they typed up transcripts made? How many people have actually heard 297 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:55.199 those recordings? Oh? Sure you maybe myself, my top assistance and Catherine, 298 00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.000 yeah, I might tell you that experienced. As far as its impact 299 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:06.960 on catherin cases concern what she never was able to return to her law practice. 300 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:13.400 If it hadn't been for Carol Reach's ability to tuck her away in a 301 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:16.840 job of the Federal Trade Commission, I don't know what would have happened to 302 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:23.880 Catherine, but ultimately she lost her mind as a result of it. Terrible 303 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:37.440 shocked. It's a very rough experience to encounter proof of these kinds mister Dodd, 304 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:42.960 what kind Well can you summarize the opposition to the committee, the race 305 00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:47.639 Committee, and particularly the efforts to sabotage the committee. Well, they began 306 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:57.360 right at the start of of the work of an operating staff, mister Griffin, 307 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:06.599 and it began on the day in which the committee met for the purpose 308 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:13.599 of consenting to or confirming my appointment to the position of Director of Research. 309 00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:22.639 Thanks to the abstention of the minority members of the committee, that is, 310 00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:36.280 the two Democratic members from voting. Why technically I was unanimously appointed and it 311 00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:43.679 wasn't the White House involved in opposition, not at this particular points or mister 312 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:52.280 Rees ordered counsel and myself to visit Wayne Hayes. Wayne Hayes was the ranking 313 00:36:52.480 --> 00:37:00.440 minority member of the committee as a Democrat, So we counsel and I had 314 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:05.840 to go down to mister Hay's office, which we did. Mister Hayes greeted 315 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:15.960 us with the flat statement directed primarily to me, which is that I am 316 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:22.800 opposed to this investigation. I regard it as nothing but an effort on the 317 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.800 part of Carol Reese to gain a little prominence, and so I'll do everything 318 00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:39.800 I can to see that it fails. Well, I am kind of a 319 00:37:39.880 --> 00:37:46.840 strange personality in the sense that the challenge of that nature interests me. Our 320 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:53.679 counsel withdrew. He went over and sat in the couch and mister Reese's office 321 00:37:53.679 --> 00:38:02.639 and powdered. But I've sort of took up a statement of Hayes as a 322 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:08.320 challenge and set myself the goal of winning him over to our point of view. 323 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.280 And I started by noticing on his desk that was a book, and 324 00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:22.079 the book was the type that there are many these days that would be complaining 325 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:29.079 about the spread of communism in Hungary that type of book. And this meant 326 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:34.400 to me that at least he has read a book. And so I brought 327 00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:40.559 up the subject of the spread of the influence of the Soviet world, and 328 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:49.480 for two hours discussed this with Haze and finally ended up with his rising from 329 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:54.800 his desk and saying, Norm, if you can, if you will carry 330 00:38:54.840 --> 00:39:00.559 this investigation towards the goal as you've outlined it to me, I'll be your 331 00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:05.440 biggest supporter, I said, Missays, I can assure you that you I 332 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:13.280 will not double cross you. Subsequently, mister Hayes sent word to me that 333 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:19.039 he was in the Bethesda Hospital with an attack of ulsters, but it would 334 00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.320 I come and see him, which I did. He then said, Norm, 335 00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.639 the only reason I've asked you to come out here is I just want 336 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:32.719 to hear you say again you will not double cross me. I gave him 337 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:39.760 that assurance, and that was the basis of our relationship. Meantime, Counsel 338 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.239 took the attitude expressed in these words, Norm, if you want to waste 339 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:49.800 your time with this guy, as he called him, you can go ahead 340 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.199 and do it, but don't ever ask me to say anything to him under 341 00:39:53.280 --> 00:40:00.679 any condition on any subject. So, in a sense, that clear decks 342 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:07.719 for me to operate in relationships on my own. And as time passed, 343 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:22.599 Hayes offered friendship, which I've hesitated to accept because of his vulgarity and I 344 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:29.000 didn't want to get mixed up with him socially under any condition. Well, 345 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:37.880 it was our atmosphere, our relationship for about three months, and then eventually 346 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:45.400 I had occasion to add to my staff, and as a result of adding 347 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:52.719 to my staff a top flight intelligence officer, both the Republican National Committee and 348 00:40:52.800 --> 00:41:01.320 the White House were resorted to to stop me from continue this investigation in the 349 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:07.599 direction of Carol Reese had personally asked me to do, which was to utilize 350 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:15.559 this investigation mister Griffin to uncover the fact that this country had been the victim 351 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:22.519 of a conspiracy that was mister Reese's conviction. I eventually agreed to carry it 352 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:28.480 out. I explained to mister Reesk that his own counsel wouldn't go in that 353 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:36.360 direction. He gave me permission to disregard our own counsel, and I had 354 00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:42.159 then to set up an aspect of the investigation outside of our office, more 355 00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:52.079 or less secret. And the Republican National Committee got wind of what I was 356 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:58.039 doing, and they did everything they could to stop me. They appealed to 357 00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:02.320 counsel to stop me, and finally they resorted to the White House. Was 358 00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:06.719 there objection because of what you were doing or because of the fact that you 359 00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.480 were doing it outside of the official auspices of the committee? Know? Their 360 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:15.639 objection was, as they put it, my devotion to what they called anti 361 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:22.079 Semitism. That was a cooked up idea, But in other ways it wasn't 362 00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:28.159 true at all. But anyway, that's the way expressed it. And excuse 363 00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:30.599 me why they made it stick. Why did they do that? How could 364 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:35.079 they say that? Well, they could say, they could say it, 365 00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:43.679 mister Griffin, but they had to have something in a way of rationalization of 366 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.920 their decision to do everything. They could just stop, stop the completion of 367 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:53.639 this investigation in the direction that it was moving, which would have been an 368 00:42:53.679 --> 00:43:01.119 exposure of this Carnegie Endowment story in the Forward Foundation and a Googgenheim and a 369 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:08.639 Rockefeller Foundation all working in harmony toward the control of education in the United States. 370 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:22.360 Well in any event, to secure the help of the White House in 371 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:31.320 the picture, they assigned that they got the White House to cause the liaison 372 00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:37.960 personality between the White House and the Hill A Major Persons to go up to 373 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:45.760 Hayes and try to get him to as it were actively opposed what investigation was 374 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:53.119 engaged in. And Hayes very kindly then would listen to this visit from Major 375 00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:58.119 Person. Then he would call me and say, norm come up to my 376 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:00.199 office. I have a good deal to tell you. I would go up. 377 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:05.440 He told me I've just had a visit from Major Person and he wants 378 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.639 me to break up this investigation. So I then say it will wage. 379 00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:12.880 What did you do? What did you say to him. He said, 380 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.960 I just told him to get the hell out, and he did that three 381 00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:21.039 times, and I got pretty proud of him in the sense that he was, 382 00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:28.440 as it were, backing me up. And we finally embarked upon hearings 383 00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:34.039 at Hayes's request because he wanted to get him out of the way before he 384 00:44:34.119 --> 00:44:42.760 went abroad at the summer. And but why were the hearings finally terminated? 385 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:46.280 What happened to the committee? What happened to the committee or the hair of 386 00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:53.239 the hearings the hearings or the hearings were terminated. Carol Reees was up against 387 00:44:53.280 --> 00:45:02.239 such a few are as through the activity of our council. Hayes became convinced 388 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:07.400 that he was being double crossed, and he put on a show in a 389 00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:15.039 public hearing room, mister Griffin that was an absolute disgrace, and he called 390 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:21.360 Carol Reese publicly every name in the book, and mister Reese took this as 391 00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:36.280 proof that he couldn't couldn't continue the hearings. He actually invited me to accompany 392 00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:44.679 him when he went down to Hayes' office, and in my presence, with 393 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.920 the tears rolling down his face, Hayes apologized to Carol Reese for every done 394 00:45:49.960 --> 00:46:00.960 and his conduct and apologize to me. And I thought that would be enough 395 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:08.159 in Carolwood resume, but he never did. The charge of anti Semitism is 396 00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:13.679 kind of intriguing to me. What what was the basis of that charge? 397 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:21.960 Oh? The basis of the Republican National Committee used was at the intelligence officer 398 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:28.360 I had taken on my staff when I when I oriented this investigation to the 399 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:35.679 exposure of and proof of a conspiracy, was known to have a book and 400 00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:40.079 the book was deemed to be anti submitting this was childish, but this was 401 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:45.639 the second in command of the Republican National Committee and each d of of me 402 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:50.599 and I'd have to I would have to dismiss this person from my staff. 403 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.840 Who was that person? Who was that person? The person? Yes, 404 00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:59.440 a Colonel Lee Lorraine le Loraine. Yeah, And what was his book? 405 00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:05.039 Do you recall the time? He did? But the book they referred to 406 00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:16.480 was called Waters Flowing Eastward, which was a very castigation of the Jewish influence 407 00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:21.639 in the world. What were some of the other charges made by mister Hayes 408 00:47:22.760 --> 00:47:31.880 against mister Reese. Oh, just just that mister Reese was utilizing this investigation 409 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:37.920 for his own prominence inside the House of Representatives. That was the only charge 410 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:49.000 they Hayes could think of. How would you describe them? The motivation of 411 00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:52.760 the people who created the foundations, the big foundations in the very beginning, 412 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:59.199 What is or what was their motivation? Their motivation? Well, let's take 413 00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:07.199 let's state mister Karnegie is as an example. His publicly declared and steadfast interests 414 00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:19.039 was to counteract the departure of this of the colonies from Great Britain. He 415 00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:24.960 was devoted to just putting the pieces back together again. Would that have required 416 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:37.760 the collectivism that they were dedicated? These policies other or the foundation's allegiance to 417 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:45.079 to these Unamerican concepts all traceable to the type to the transfer of the funds 418 00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:51.519 over into the hands of trustees. Mister Griffin, um not the men who 419 00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:58.719 had a hand in the creation of the wealth that led to the endowment of 420 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:07.519 or a use of that well for what we would call public purposes. It 421 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:12.119 was a subversion of the original intent. Then, oh yeah, completely, 422 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:21.440 and that we got into the world traditionally of bankers and lawyers. How do 423 00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:25.920 you see that the purpose and direction of the major foundations has changed over the 424 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:34.360 years to the present. What is it today? Whole on behind meeting the 425 00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:43.239 cost of education such as such as it is presented through the schools and colleges 426 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:49.639 of the United States. On the subject of our history has proven, are 427 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:58.960 our original ideas to be no longer practical? The future belongs to collectivistic concept 428 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:14.559 and there there's no disagreement on it. Why do the Foundations generously support communist 429 00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:21.599 causes in the United States, Well because to them, what communism represents a 430 00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:28.159 means of developing what we call a monopoly, as the organization will say, 431 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:38.039 of large scale industry into an administerble unit. Do they think that they will 432 00:50:38.119 --> 00:50:42.559 be one day? They will be, They will be the beneficiaries of it. 433 00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:53.199 Yes, you're listening to the Fact Radio network. Just the Fact Man.