1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,960 We're gonna bring in a we have a great guest on via Skype. We're 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,080 gonna bring in in just a moment. But if you'd like to enter the 3 00:00:06,839 --> 00:00:10,640 discussion that we're about to have, six ZO three two five six z seven 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,679 is a studio line six ZO three two five six zoo seven. You can 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:16,960 also text me at six one seven nine one seven four four seven six. 6 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:21,280 I'm on social media at Matt Connerton. You can email me Matt at Matt 7 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,359 Connerton dot com. You can interact endo Pine in the Facebook live chat. 8 00:00:26,399 --> 00:00:29,559 But the best thing to do so that we can hear and enjoy your Dulca 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,159 tones is to give us a call at six zoo three two five six zoo 10 00:00:34,359 --> 00:00:38,039 seven. And we have Kevin Hammer via Skype. Kevin are you there? 11 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:44,159 Yes, I am hello, welcome to the show. Glad, glad to 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,920 be here. I just want to check and you hear me clearly? Yeah, 13 00:00:48,039 --> 00:00:52,320 yeah, absolutely can hear me. Okay, a bit choppy, a 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,960 bit staticky, but I can make I can make everything out everywhere just saying 15 00:00:56,079 --> 00:01:00,079 okay, good good. Yeah. Technology will will not always be exactly what 16 00:01:00,159 --> 00:01:03,480 we wanted to be, that's for sure, absolutely, but uh yeah yesterday, 17 00:01:03,519 --> 00:01:07,480 we had a band on all the way from Germany called Factory of Art 18 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,719 and uh, you know, when when you're getting transcontinental, it can be 19 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:15,000 especially a challenging and they were skyping in, but they had a little bit 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,920 of a problem connecting. You know. Eventually it worked, but I had 21 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,200 to had to give it a few shots. But where where are you? 22 00:01:22,239 --> 00:01:26,519 Are you in Schenectady in New York? Yes, yep, I do reside 23 00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:30,120 in Schenectady, New York. Okay, it's not that far from the capitol 24 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,439 Albany, New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have some I 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,280 have some family in New York State. Spend some time there as a kid, 26 00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:40,640 because I haven't been there in a while, well at least not not 27 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:44,480 in terms of spending any real time there. But um my, uh, 28 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:49,359 my dad's second wife, her family is in I don't know, if you 29 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:53,200 know Frankfurt. It's uh kind of near uh, I guess it's kind of 30 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:57,280 near Utica. Um, yeah, I'm aware of the Frankfurt area absolutely. 31 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:00,480 Okay, Yeah, it's kind of funny in that area, you've got all 32 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:02,000 those you know, they don't even really call them towns, they call them 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:07,439 village villages like Frankfurt and Ilien and and it's hard to tell where one ends 34 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:10,919 and and and another one begins. It's they're kind of like a like one 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,080 city sort of match together. But it's really like a series of neighborhoods. 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,560 It's interesting. But um, it's funny. Yeah, it's it is funny 37 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:22,080 up here. I actually grew up in a community where the Amish had posts 38 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,159 to tie up their horses. So really, no kidding in New York or 39 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,560 were you yes? Oh wow? I was born and raised in Scaria, 40 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,800 Montgomery Counties in New York State. Uh. And it's funny because most people 41 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,719 when you say you're from New York, they go to the city. But 42 00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:42,879 I grew up in small town, rural New York. Like I said that, 43 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,560 we had an Amish community. Uh, you know, Mennonites, you 44 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:49,319 know, we we had all that out there. And like I said, 45 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,400 our bank, our post you know, the post office, our grocery store, 46 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:55,919 they all had posts to um tie up their horses. In fact, 47 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,800 they put in a brand new a few years ago. They put in a 48 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:06,199 new sign in the center of town. Uh buggy parking, No kidding, 49 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,199 Oh yep, Oh that's cool. That's interesting, interesting, um you ever 50 00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:15,240 see that that that show, Amish Mafia. I think it was actually set 51 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,319 in Pennsylvania. Did you ever see that? I think it was on the 52 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:22,039 Learning Channel. No, I'm aware that it exists, but no I have 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,080 I have actually never seen a full episode. I saw a trailer for it 54 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:27,840 once and I found it very amusing. It's a it's a trip. I 55 00:03:27,879 --> 00:03:31,400 just I know someone actually someone who claims to be a real New Yorker from 56 00:03:31,599 --> 00:03:37,560 from the city who uh will often brag about the time that he interviewed Lebanon 57 00:03:37,719 --> 00:03:40,879 Levi from Amish Mafia, and it's kind of like, wow, that's uh 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,479 quite the brag there. But uh, yeah, that that that show. 59 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,960 I have seen the show. It's it's kind of a trip. But now, 60 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,800 what is your current satis in terms of are you a candidate or do 61 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:58,439 you currently hold office? Well, I I am currently a candidate. Um 62 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,199 I will I'm not going to speak so much to the uh you know, 63 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:09,039 the race right now. My campaign right now, we're the Democrats. I 64 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:14,360 am a Republican. The Democrats have their primaries, their primary coming up. 65 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:16,680 Uh you know, so we're just reaching out to the community right now, 66 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,439 still knocking on doors, getting getting our names out there. I ran in 67 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:26,879 twenty twenty one for city council and I'm running again, Okay in Schenectady. 68 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,240 Yep, in Schenectady. Gotcha. Now, have you held office before or 69 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,720 if you run, did you run for office prior to twenty twenty one. 70 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:40,720 No, twenty twenty one was my first time entering politics in that in that 71 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:46,360 fashion. Prior to that, I had been involved more on the activist side 72 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,639 since probably around college. Okay, And now you came to us by way 73 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:58,199 of our friend Billy Painter, or Bad Billy as he is as this his 74 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,519 online persona. Although I personally I don't know what you think, Kevin, 75 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:02,879 I think he should just use his real name. I think Billy Painter is 76 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,199 a cool name. I don't know why. I just like the way it 77 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,680 sounds. But uh, but yeah, he had he had recommended, and 78 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,560 I'm glad he connected us, and I did. I didn't get a chance 79 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,399 to see quite the whole thing, but I did watch most of um your 80 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,120 interview, Billy's interview with you, I should say, on Outlaw Radio and 81 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:26,040 very interesting and uh and you know we had talked via messenger and you had 82 00:05:26,079 --> 00:05:29,720 mentioned, um, you know, you're a Republican, but you you know, 83 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,639 you like to be able to discuss things with people outside of the echo 84 00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:35,680 chamber, and um, you know, one of the things that I try 85 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,600 to do with this show, and this is part of what it's part of 86 00:05:39,639 --> 00:05:43,639 what made you interesting as a guest, and why I think Billy suggested you 87 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,480 come on is you know, I, um, and I'm an independent, 88 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,079 but I would probably best describe my politics. And when I go with this 89 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,360 particular description, people seem to agree with me. I'm center left, but 90 00:05:55,519 --> 00:06:00,120 with a heavy dose of libertarian in some ways too. But I really like 91 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,079 talking to um, you know, I I don't personally enjoy having discussions that 92 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,000 are strictly you know, ideological, the sort of cable news to people yelling 93 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,439 at each other. You know, I like to dig deeper, and I 94 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,800 like talking to people whom uh you know. I mean, of course, 95 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:16,160 it's nice to talk to people with whom I agree. It's also nice to 96 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,920 talk to people with whom I disagree and and have a real discussion and an 97 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:25,199 exchange of ideas and and uh, my impression both from Billy and what you 98 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,480 had said on Messenger is that you're very open to that as well, and 99 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,120 that and that you like to address things outside the echo chamber. So um, 100 00:06:32,399 --> 00:06:35,399 so, I think that's very cool, and I'm very interested in so 101 00:06:35,759 --> 00:06:40,680 a couple of things about you that are that are interesting. Also in addition 102 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,079 to that that I wanted to ask you about. UM One is I would 103 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,759 like to hear your story about how Billy described you as a walk away from 104 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,560 the Democratic Party and you you alluded to it a moment ago as well, 105 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,240 um that you used to be a Democrat. And it's interesting you you said 106 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:00,759 something interesting in your conversation with Billy on his show. You were talking about 107 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,480 how you really kind of feel more like an independent. But you know the 108 00:07:04,519 --> 00:07:08,240 way the system works in New York. You know, if you want to 109 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:11,120 vote, or I suppose if you want to be a candidate in your case, 110 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,920 because you're an active candidates. You know, you're an active candidate. 111 00:07:13,959 --> 00:07:17,199 Independence generally don't win, so you know, you almost you almost have to 112 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:20,920 pick a side, um in that sense. But I do want to ask 113 00:07:20,959 --> 00:07:25,439 you more about all of that, your your journey and and and how you've 114 00:07:25,519 --> 00:07:29,360 changed politically or if you have changed. You know, sometimes people will say 115 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,759 regardless of which party they left, you know, I hear people say, 116 00:07:32,759 --> 00:07:35,160 well, the party didn't you know, I didn't leave the party, the 117 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:39,120 party left me. But I'm curious to hear more about that. The other 118 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,680 thing that's that's interesting about you is, um, so you are, and 119 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,079 it's right on on the website there that I was looking at. You know, 120 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:53,439 you're you're openly gay and in a party that I think. I think 121 00:07:53,439 --> 00:07:57,240 there's a perception and you might refute this today. I don't know, or 122 00:07:57,279 --> 00:08:00,959 it might be a concern. I'm curious to hear you address this, But 123 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,480 there is a perception that the Republican Party today has kind of taken an anti 124 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:11,879 LGBTQ bent or. But then again, I also realize you're in New York 125 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,399 and the Republican Party of New York State is not the same as say no 126 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:22,600 disrespect to the South, but the Republican Party of Alabama. You know, 127 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:28,079 So maybe maybe maybe where you are, and I suspect this is the case, 128 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,279 but I'll be interested to hear you address this. Maybe where you are 129 00:08:31,319 --> 00:08:33,600 it just doesn't matter. I mean, I know George Santos is an openly 130 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,559 gay Republican allegedly. Of course, you don't know whether you can believe anything 131 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,039 anything he says. But he is an openly gay Republican from New York, 132 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:50,440 and nobody seems to care that he's gay. So everyone's very interested in whether 133 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,480 he's actually telling the truth about anything, But nobody seems to care that he's 134 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,679 gay. So so, you know, in the Northeast, maybe it's just 135 00:08:56,759 --> 00:08:58,639 not an issue. I don't know, but i'd be curious to get your 136 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,840 perspect active on that. But um, but yeah, any any of that 137 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,000 that you want to address. I know I threw a lot at you at 138 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,840 once, but you're I'm very curious to learn more about you. And um, 139 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:13,600 your conversation with Billy left me with a lot of questions. So as 140 00:09:13,639 --> 00:09:18,159 you can tell, so we're we're oh no, absolutely, yeah, a 141 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,799 lot of a lot of ground at me. Yeah. Um, you know 142 00:09:20,879 --> 00:09:26,360 where to start on the map. Um, no, well, it is 143 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:33,480 true. I was once I was registered Democrat, identified actually self identified as 144 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:37,840 a leftist at one point. You know, I was involved as an activist 145 00:09:37,919 --> 00:09:45,320 more during the time when s JW was more commonly used social justice warrior back 146 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,639 back in those don't you don't really hear that anymore? Um. I had 147 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,120 a journey which um I mean, there was a lot involved in it, 148 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:58,799 and I came to embrace more my conservative values. Now. Part of that 149 00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:03,519 journey, um, was indeed the fact, as you said, many people 150 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:07,919 say I didn't leave the party, the party left me. The Democratic Party 151 00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:11,879 went further to the left. That's true. However, at around the same 152 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:18,480 time, I was also connecting to some more of my conservative root values that 153 00:10:18,519 --> 00:10:22,159 had that had always been there. So it really it really was a mixture. 154 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:28,159 UM. I can't I can't say that, you know now, I 155 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,320 you know, identifying as a conservative and speaking to conservative values, I can't 156 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,399 say that they weren't there at all. Right, they were there even when 157 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:43,480 I was more on the left. It's just how my interactions went on the 158 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,200 left ultimately led to me embracing more of those conservative values, um, and 159 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:54,919 ultimately rejecting a lot of the ideology that I saw on the rise on the 160 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,519 left. Now, you it is, it is true that, um. 161 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:03,440 In regards I I like to say today that I prefer to discuss values, 162 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:09,360 not party. Yes, and that really has become more and more of my 163 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:13,200 focus. Not too long ago, I was having a discussion with two gentlemen 164 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:20,559 about issues locally and as when we got done with our conversation. You know, 165 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,919 I was expressing my opinion. I was talking about specific issues. And 166 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,080 when we got done with the conversation and the one guy left, the other 167 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,360 guy, who happens to be a Republican, a conservative like myself, he 168 00:11:31,399 --> 00:11:35,480 goes, Wow, he goes, that was impressive, he goes. Usually, 169 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,840 when me and the other guy try to you know, me and my 170 00:11:37,879 --> 00:11:41,440 other friend try to talk to him, you know, he's hard Democrat and 171 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:46,159 he will yell at us, get frustrated with us and all that. And 172 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,000 I go, I understand that, and I've had that experience as well. 173 00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:52,399 But did you notice something in our conversation. Not once did I mention party 174 00:11:52,399 --> 00:12:00,759 affiliation during this entire conversation. I just spoke about the issues in my personal 175 00:12:00,879 --> 00:12:05,440 values, which ye, Well, that allowed us to have a better connection. 176 00:12:07,039 --> 00:12:11,720 Yeah. Uh, that makes sense because you uh, when you had 177 00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:15,480 that conversation with Billy on his show, you were talking about that there's a 178 00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:20,080 moment, uh that I and I wanted to kind of mention this to you, 179 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,879 and and I liked what you had to say. There's a moment where 180 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:26,200 you gave him, you offered him some advice on you know, he's he's 181 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:31,320 Uh. He was talking about his daughter and a political sort of a political 182 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,360 conversation interaction that he had had with his daughter. And you said to Billy, 183 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,320 can I give you some advice and the advice that you gave him? 184 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,960 And I I won't, uh, I'm sure I won't get it out as 185 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,759 eloquently as you put it, because I really liked what you had to say. 186 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,320 But your suggestion was, you know, start with you know, don't 187 00:12:48,399 --> 00:12:54,600 don't talk about political party with your daughter, talk about specific issues and uh 188 00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:58,480 and and and just stick to that. Um and I. I really, 189 00:12:58,759 --> 00:13:03,240 again, the way you said it was very very good. I can't remember 190 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,519 exactly how you put it, but it really resonated with me because, you 191 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,759 know, I feel like we live in a world where people are so hyper 192 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:20,840 focused on party identification and ideology that there's no room to even um express anything 193 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:26,720 outside of what's expected to you, for example, on social media if you 194 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:31,120 are on either left or right, you know, if you're if you're a 195 00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:35,720 Republican and uh and and you say, well, you know, I'm a 196 00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:39,039 Republican. But here's something that I do give President Biden credit for. I 197 00:13:39,039 --> 00:13:43,519 think he's right on you know, maybe you know the way he's supplied weapons 198 00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:46,840 to Ukraine or whatever, if that's something you happen to agree with them on. 199 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:50,200 If you if you give Biden credit for anything as a Republican, you'll 200 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,080 get dog piled. You'll get called a rhino. You know, you'll get 201 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,960 called, I don't know, a socialist whatever it is, right. Uh. 202 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,759 And and in the inverse, if you're a Democrat and you say, 203 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,360 well, you know, I don't like Trump, but I did agree with 204 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,840 him on the debt ceiling. That was something that he got right, Uh, 205 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,840 you'll get dogpiled by your your fellow Democrats and it's like, how can 206 00:14:11,879 --> 00:14:18,919 you dare say anything good about Trump? And so uh it's and and that 207 00:14:18,039 --> 00:14:22,759 just perpetuates you know, we we we live in a world where it's like 208 00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:26,480 you've really you're expected to be locked in on one side or the other. 209 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,720 And so I think your approach is smart. Uh. You know, talk 210 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:37,320 about the you know, forget about the political identification. Uh, start with 211 00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:41,679 the issues and and and go from there, because at the end of the 212 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:46,519 day, especially when you're talking about local things, UM, I think there's 213 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:48,039 a lot of room for agreement. You know, if you're talking about if 214 00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:52,320 you're running for city council or something like that. I think there's probably a 215 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,240 lot more room for agreement and less room for ideology, uh than than there 216 00:14:56,279 --> 00:15:01,639 isn't on a broader scale anyway. So I think the way you approach it 217 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:03,600 and the way you think about it, I think makes a lot of sense. 218 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,679 We've gotten We've gotten to a point where if you're talking about a politician, 219 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:15,000 whether they be Democrat, Republican, whatever they may be, and you 220 00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:18,039 are on that opposite end of the political spectrum, at least that's your party 221 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:24,000 affiliation, and you do speak kindly to them in any way, you do 222 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,759 get that attack. Unfortunately, we are that polarized, although I would say 223 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,879 that we're polarized in regards to what the media highlights, in regards to what 224 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:37,360 the politicians highlight, but not so much when it comes to day today Americans, 225 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:43,759 every day americans who I feel actually can have more conversations, and I 226 00:15:43,799 --> 00:15:46,360 know in fact we can because I've taken part in those conversations. It's more 227 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:50,399 on the social media where I get the conflict, but in person, I've 228 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,360 had in depth conversations with people on the opposite end of the political spectrum. 229 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:58,639 Sure, we did not agree, but we remain civil, absolutely, and 230 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,279 I think in part that's because we and I was I had a friend once 231 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,600 kind of put it this way. He was saying, you know, it's 232 00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:10,039 it's kind of like we're at this point. You know, say there was 233 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,519 a historical a dictator, a monstrous dictator, right, and that dictator happened 234 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:19,639 to say, um, puppies are cute. Well, after that point, 235 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:25,679 no one could ever say puppies are cute because this dictator said it, right, 236 00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:29,080 right, So no one, no one can say puppies are cute now. 237 00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:33,679 Um, you know. So it's it's very interesting that we have gotten 238 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:37,279 into that, and it's it does exist on both sides of the aisle, 239 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,080 all across the political spectrum. Now, for me personally, it's interesting because 240 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,080 I look back to my roots and where I came from. One of the 241 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,440 things I actually feel very fortunate in regards to is that I did not have 242 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:55,799 very political parents. Um, my parents never discussed voting with me. To 243 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,039 be honest, some people may not look fondly upon that, um, you 244 00:16:59,919 --> 00:17:03,240 know, for various reasons, but it's just not who my parents were. 245 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,359 And I remember once asking them about voting and both my parents had the same 246 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,440 view. Why bother they're all crooked anyways, as across the board, and 247 00:17:12,759 --> 00:17:18,359 that's a common view actually. But for me, especially when I entered UM 248 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:23,240 College and I started looking at the world around me, I realized something that 249 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,359 was true, whether I liked it or not. Um. You know, 250 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,079 there's the saying that you don't have to believe in the devil. All that 251 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:33,920 matters is the devil believes in you. And that's true when it comes to 252 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,240 politics. You can say you don't care about politics. You can say that 253 00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:41,160 you don't you don't care, you know, it doesn't impact your life, 254 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,039 but that's just not true. I had a conversation with a friend who lives 255 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:48,559 in a more rural area and he was telling me earlier, he had been 256 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:52,279 telling me in the week about he was putting in a duck pond and you 257 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,559 know, in a coupe for the ducks and all that stuff. And then 258 00:17:56,759 --> 00:18:00,599 later on he was telling me how politics doesn't impact his life, you know, 259 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,400 so he just doesn't want anything to do with it. And I remembered 260 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,680 back to our earlier conversation and I asked him, bowing the answer probably, 261 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,960 I said, I have a question you think politics doesn't impact your life. 262 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:14,400 I got a question, did you check all the zoning laws and regulations when 263 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,440 you put in that pond and you put in that coup, because if you 264 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:22,519 did not follow them to the te those were passed. Those rules were passed 265 00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:26,079 by government, by local government. So yes, it does. And politics 266 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,359 impacts us from the moment we are born and before we go we were born. 267 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,880 You know, if you're born in a hospital, there are regulations, 268 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,079 policies at the hospital has to follow that have been implemented by government. Government 269 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:44,480 does impact us from womb to tomb, and even after the tomb, to 270 00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,480 be honest, because they can pick up, you know, semties. So 271 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:51,799 I mean politics does impact you, whether you like it or not. Someone 272 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:56,039 saying to that that realization. When I entered college, I got involved, 273 00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:57,279 and at the time it was more on the left. I was. Actually 274 00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:00,759 I was an activist. I was a co founder of one of the GFAs 275 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:06,519 at my college, at the first college I went to, and I really 276 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,839 did fall into more with the left, and for me, that did end 277 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:17,119 up eventually taking more of an extreme turn at one point to where I did 278 00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:21,640 cut out family over politics. The one thing I never did. I never 279 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,920 told anyone they didn't have a right to speak. This is where I honestly 280 00:19:26,079 --> 00:19:32,079 started to change for me is when I actually got that treatment in return, 281 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,839 and I'm actually thankful that I did. To be honest, I started to 282 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,400 question things on the left at the time. And like I said, I 283 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:47,519 don't say this to say that everyone who has left or leaning has these personality 284 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:51,079 traits or takes part in this behavior. Of course, I'm speaking to the 285 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,680 experience I had during my journey from the left to the right. And you 286 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,440 know, and I've met I've met people on the who are very big on 287 00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:06,400 If you don't have this specific view, then you're cut off right, nothing 288 00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:10,319 to do with you. But for me, I experienced it largely on the 289 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:15,839 left and still do to this day. Um what it happened was, I 290 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,799 think, as I always I always kind of say, I think, what 291 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:23,400 really, um, ultimately h was going to result in my conflict with the 292 00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:30,640 left was that I'm very stubborn and I don't respond well to people trying to 293 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,960 put me in my place. I'm someone who always asked questions. I wasn't 294 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,799 the child who easily accepted when my parents told me something. I wasn't the 295 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,640 child to really accept because I said so. I was the child who would 296 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,160 ask why, yeah, And I view that as important. You tell a 297 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:53,200 child not to touch a burning stove, why not explain to them why they 298 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,599 shouldn't touch the hot stove because they could get hurt. Instead of just saying 299 00:20:57,839 --> 00:21:03,519 because I said so, right, they're more likely to rebel against that and 300 00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:07,319 actually touched the stove and get and get burnt. But if you explain to 301 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,680 them why, you're gonna probably have a different result. I mean, they 302 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,400 could still do it, you know, but but you're probably gonna at least 303 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,119 they're gonna have a better understanding. And I really had that personality from the 304 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,000 time I was very young. Trust me, it frustrated my mother at times, 305 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,559 but my mother let me. Let my mother understood where my logic was 306 00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:33,799 was going. And ultimately, I think this personality trait is what eventually caused 307 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,759 me to conflict with the left as it moved further and further to the left. 308 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:41,960 Because when I entered the left, there was a lot of things that 309 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:48,039 were preached that I absolutely believed in and still do actually believe into this day. 310 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:52,920 It's just when I noticed a lot of double standards and hypocrisy on the 311 00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:56,799 rise. That was when I started to conflict, because I started to ask 312 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,880 more questions. Yeah, and I do have a few examples of those that 313 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,920 I found, um where I was starting to like, For example, uh, 314 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,720 you know, there was this, uh we would say, all right, 315 00:22:08,759 --> 00:22:14,319 you shouldn't judge someone by the color of their skin. Absolutely, absolutely, 316 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:18,160 you shouldn't. That's wrong. That's racist. To have a prejudice against 317 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,160 someone based on the color of their skin. That is racism. That is 318 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,240 the definition of racism. Right. It's wrong to judge someone's entire character based 319 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:30,440 on their sex. Absolutely absolutely agreed with that, and I still agree with 320 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:36,839 that deeply. It's wrong to judge someone hate someone based on their sexual orientation, 321 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,599 and you know, in regards homosexuality heterosexution, I still I still believe 322 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,559 that. However, I noticed that there became more and more among my friends 323 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,240 this double standard, meaning they believed that racism only went one way, sexism 324 00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:55,880 only one way, hating someone based on sexual orientation only went went only went 325 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:02,400 one way, and that if you were the oppressed quote unquote demographic, you 326 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:10,440 had every right to treat other people however you wanted based on these characteristics because 327 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,680 you were the oppressed, and that just didn't sit right with me. I 328 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,640 think that it's just as wrong for me to attack a heterosexual man for being 329 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,160 heterosexual, to call him some kind of name a slur related to that, 330 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,640 as it would be for him to call me a slur in regards to my 331 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:33,960 sexual orientation. I saw that as just as wrong. But unfortunately on the 332 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,839 progressive left right now, they don't see that, as they see one is 333 00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:44,640 wrong but not the other. Um, but where were these Were there expert 334 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,720 personal experiences that you had where this came up? Because I don't, I 335 00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:51,039 don't. I mean, well, first of all, let me just say 336 00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:53,680 so, I fundamentally agree with you. I mean, any anybody, uh, 337 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,759 you know, being prejudiced against anyone is as a form of prejudice. 338 00:23:56,799 --> 00:24:00,440 Like I'm not a big fan of the term uh and you might agree I'm 339 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:07,240 not a big fan of the term reverse racism. I think, yeah, 340 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,200 yeah, um, But but I am I am curious. So uh, 341 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,119 I mean, were there personal experiences that you were having or did something happen 342 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:21,359 to you online where where you began to notice because I don't feel like I 343 00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:26,559 I see, while I agree with you, Um, in principle, I 344 00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:33,480 haven't. Granted, I don't really engage much online. Uh in politics, 345 00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:37,279 I kind of save it all for the show. Um, but I I 346 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,480 so I agree with you in principle, but it's not something I've seen. 347 00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:44,119 Like, I can't, off the top of my head think of a lot 348 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:51,559 of examples of straight people being attacked for for being straight. I'm not sure. 349 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,480 So I'm just can you clarify that a little bit. I'm just curious 350 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,960 where where you were running into that, and and and if you can walk 351 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,759 I guess through how you responded to that when you encountered it, and how 352 00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:11,839 that drew you to to see hypocrisy and double standards and so forth. Well, 353 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,400 let me, I guess. Let me explain because I know the perspective 354 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,640 you're coming from. In my personal life. When I say I was an 355 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,079 activist, well I may not have, you know, been high up there 356 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,920 and gotten a lot of attention. I was very much involved in activism, 357 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:30,079 and I did end up with friends who went further and further to left, 358 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,000 like not just people on social media, people in my circle of friends who, 359 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:37,400 for example, over a political disagreement one friend I had, he did 360 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,720 try to get someone fired from their job. He t but he docks them 361 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:48,000 like I knew people who honestly were at that level of encouraging people to cut 362 00:25:48,039 --> 00:25:55,640 off family even divorce their spouses over political disagreements. Like my circle of friends 363 00:25:56,079 --> 00:26:00,359 was hard went hard left. So it's an It wasn't even social media, 364 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,079 which, don't get me wrong, I experienced that on social media, of 365 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,559 course. Yeah, I was part of a law of left leaning political groups 366 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:11,359 and chats and everything like that. But I had people in my life, 367 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,480 people I had known for years, who were also of this mentality and actually 368 00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:19,839 took part in these actions. And like when I had the falling out with 369 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:25,519 my family member over politics, a lot of my friends encouraged me to cut 370 00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,079 her out of my life and never talk to her again. And this was 371 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,359 someone who is my baby cousin. I'm about I'm all about four years older 372 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:38,680 than her, and I was there when she was born and we had a 373 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:44,920 falling out over politics. And at the time, I was much more extreme 374 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,599 and much more of you know that you gotta agree with me on this or 375 00:26:48,599 --> 00:26:52,000 else I don't want to talk to you. And I was surrounded by people 376 00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:57,720 who had that same mentality and encouraged that mentality in me. Now, I 377 00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:00,839 still made the decision. I'm not. No one held a gun to my 378 00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:04,839 head or anything. Not to say that someone want to do that these days, 379 00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:08,319 it seems like some might, but no, I still made that decision. 380 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,200 So I still take responsibility for my actions there. I'm not going to 381 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,039 sit here and claim that I was completely helpless. They I was. I 382 00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:21,279 was forced to, you know, by threat of my life or anything. 383 00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:25,319 I ultimately was the one that made those decisions. But all so, that 384 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,519 was my circle of friends. Are just to clarify, because I actually marched 385 00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:34,319 on Washington, DC. I protested outside my capital. I went to organizational 386 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:41,799 meetings, I helped organize protests, I spoke at protests. I was deeply 387 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:48,640 involved on in regards to the activity locally when it came to the left. 388 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,519 Yeah, yeah, I will. Actually, uh, I want to kind 389 00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:59,480 of retract and rephrase something I said when you mentioned when you mentioned specifically people 390 00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:04,680 trying to get people fired from their jobs or because of uh maybe not uh 391 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,240 you know, whatever it is, their their position or something. I have 392 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:14,319 seen examples of that. Actually, so I I was not. I'm realizing 393 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,000 now I'm because as you're talking. I'm thinking of specific things, you know 394 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,400 where UM. It kind of reminds me of the what what Candice Owens talked 395 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,519 about. Although in in I don't believe her story, I do believe your 396 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:30,400 story because I've seen examples of what you're talking about. I have, and 397 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,839 it's starting to come back to me. Candace. I don't. I don't. 398 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:34,880 I don't know how you feel about her. I don't believe her. 399 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,880 But that's a separate conversation. But I but I know what you're saying, 400 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,880 and it's it's, UM, yeah, if if somebody, um, you 401 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:51,559 know, somebody uh does something that that someone perceives as uh and and they 402 00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,559 may be right in their perception that it's prejudiced or something, and then they 403 00:28:53,599 --> 00:28:57,599 go and they try to get that person fired from their job. Uh that 404 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:00,799 type of thing. Uh. Yeah, I don't like to see that either. 405 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,759 I think I think people do go much too far with that or the 406 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:10,279 dock singe that goes on. And so I understand, uh, you're being 407 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,559 repelled by that. Um. I've never I've never been an activist in that 408 00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:19,200 way, so I've not experienced that. But I've never been in that position 409 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,079 either. But I have seen that kind of thing happen, Kevin, So 410 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,799 I do get where you're coming from on that, and let me let me 411 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,960 just because you ask for specific examples. So, um, there were specific 412 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,559 examples, especially around twenty sixteen going into twenty seventeen, because obviously that's when 413 00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:41,359 things really heated up. Yeah, and that was when you know, I 414 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,519 cut out a family member. But then I started to really question myself on 415 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,599 that. I I, over politics, was going to cut out someone that 416 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,559 I had known literally since the day she was born. Yeah, over over 417 00:29:56,759 --> 00:30:03,039 politics. I had a falling out out with well, my in laws event 418 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,559 you know, eventually for a little bit. And you know, I don't 419 00:30:06,599 --> 00:30:10,359 regret Some people might say they regret these falling out, these falling outs, 420 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,440 I don't because I stepped back and reflected on them, and and more I 421 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,400 became critical of myself. What could I have done differently? What could I 422 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,240 have said differently? Yeah, and some of them, some of the things 423 00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:26,960 that happened personally where I actually became a target in my circle of friends, 424 00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:33,079 UM started around that time. So I don't know if you recall, um, 425 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:40,039 when a group of four um young individuals who happened to be black kidnapped 426 00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:45,279 a young UM man with mental health issues and tortured him and recorded it. 427 00:30:47,599 --> 00:30:52,480 I you know, and we're and we're calling and we're using racial slurs and 428 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,119 you know, uh, you know, towards towards white's. During that, 429 00:30:56,519 --> 00:30:59,640 I remember in my group of friends saying, oh, okay, here's an 430 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:04,559 act of racism. Just as we've called out acts of racism against other other 431 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:10,000 demographics, other racial demographics, here's an act of racism that we should call 432 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:12,359 out as well. Like I said, in my mind, racism is racism 433 00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:15,680 and it's wrong and we should call out. But when I went to call 434 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:19,680 that out, people in my own circle of friends said, no, you 435 00:31:19,759 --> 00:31:23,559 can't do that. That's not racism. Was that a violent act? Yes? 436 00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:29,400 Was that prejudice yes? And I'm like prejudices in the definition of racism, 437 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,519 But you know, I started getting push pushed back with that. UM. 438 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:37,839 Another thing that that happened to me is I had made a lot of 439 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:44,799 posts critical of Christianity in regards to well the LGBT community. UM, and 440 00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:47,680 I had you know, I had made a number of posting friends had my 441 00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:51,680 friends in my closed circle, they had liked and shared them. Well, 442 00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:55,559 I made a similar post, except this post, I was being critical of 443 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,599 Islam in regards to how it has, how that how that really is treated 444 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,559 homosexuals and other people from the community over over our span of years, and 445 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:12,720 I was told I couldn't, I should take down that post because my posts 446 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,359 against Christianity were fine, but my posts being critical of Islam were wrong because 447 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:23,119 in the context of America, we're talking about minority demographic so I'm punching down 448 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,160 and this just didn't make sense to me. I realized what came. The 449 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,720 biggest issue I had was inconsistency and logic. If you have a specific set 450 00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:38,720 of values and you don't apply them equally across the board, I have to 451 00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:44,799 question you. I have to question if you can and then you don't acknowledge 452 00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:50,240 the double standards, the hypocrisy at play in your own mind. Don't get 453 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,720 me wrong. We all have our double standards, right, like when it 454 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,400 comes to policy, like there are things that yes, children shouldn't do, 455 00:32:57,599 --> 00:33:00,920 but adults can. Right. That's that's one case where absolutely into me, 456 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:07,480 that's that's legitimate. I stand by that. But this was very different. 457 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:13,720 And more and more I started speaking on issues and getting told to be quiet 458 00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:16,119 by those in my circle of friends, to the point where I was actually 459 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:24,079 removed from several UH messaging groups um that I had been part of on social 460 00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:29,440 media where I actually knew the people in person. And then one individual was 461 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,319 amusing the one that tried to get a guy fired from his job. There 462 00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:38,519 was a protest locally in front of in front of my police station. Actually, 463 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,720 and this I had already been started being very open about my criticisms of 464 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,279 the left, and I had starting I had started to embrace more of my 465 00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:52,240 conservative values in part as a result of that, started reflecting more upon who 466 00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:55,680 I really am, really soul searching. But during that time I hadn't heard 467 00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,400 from him as much. Yea, I happened to go to that protest him 468 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,119 there, he kind of looked at me, then looked away, and someone 469 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,720 I had been at his house. I had celebrated with him, celebrated birthdays, 470 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:09,719 like really, we had hung out, and sure enough I went to 471 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,440 look him up on social media. Not only had he unfriended me on social 472 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,000 media, he had blocked me as well. Yeah, so this is what 473 00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:24,280 started to happen. And I think one big thing issue for me was my 474 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,679 unwavering belief in free speech no matter what. Even my days when I was 475 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:37,079 the furthest to the left I had ever gotten. I still while I might 476 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,400 cut people out, I might have cut people out, I still didn't believe 477 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,639 that they should be silenced, right. I still believed that they had a 478 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,360 right to speak to their values, to what they believed, even if their 479 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,480 values hurt my feelings. I just wanted to associate with them if it hurt 480 00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:55,840 my feelings. I believed that to my core and I still do so. 481 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,320 When a number of my friends started taking those acts of well, we're gonna 482 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,719 work to get people fired, We're gonna even you know docs, people release 483 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,280 their information, yeah, and even sometimes go after family members, all because 484 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:15,599 people were just speaking their values. That for me was like, I'm done. 485 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:19,239 I have to step away from this. And that was when my journey 486 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,679 really started to where I am today. Yeah. Yeah, M no, 487 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:29,679 I can. I can understand all of that, and now I'm curious the 488 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:34,280 other aspect that I'm really interested in it. So, um, is my 489 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,119 theory correct, Kevin, that you, as a as an openly gay man 490 00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:42,280 in the Republican Party in the state of New York, probably not an issue, 491 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,239 or have you or have you run in any have you run in any 492 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,079 problems with that where where maybe some maybe somebody just uh gives you a hard 493 00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:55,159 time. Well, I'm not someone who tries to um blind myself to reality 494 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,239 or tries to deny truth. Um. Of course, the Republican Party party 495 00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:05,760 has not had a history that has been great with individuals who, like myself, 496 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,760 are gay. Right, Yeah, yeah, that's that's a fact. 497 00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:13,320 Then again, it wasn't too long ago that you had Biden up there talking 498 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,559 about marriage being between a man and a woman. So but furthermore, I 499 00:36:16,599 --> 00:36:20,920 want, I want to um, I put it this way now with people, 500 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,599 because people do say to me, um, how can you vote this 501 00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:28,559 way? How can you have these values when the party that you're a part 502 00:36:28,599 --> 00:36:32,039 of, um or you know, have had, has had this history when 503 00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:36,880 it comes to the LGBT community, Well, I'm like, well, first 504 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,760 of all, there's a great deal in the LGBT community that I stand firmly 505 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:46,519 against what I see, especially in the current lgbt Q all the way to 506 00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:52,519 zum a community that I just I absolutely am adamantly against. So first of 507 00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:58,079 all, there's that, And second of all, even if let's say the 508 00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:04,599 Republican party today put out a platform that all homosexuals should be put to death. 509 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,599 Right, even if that were to happen today, my values on freedom 510 00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:14,360 of speech, the first Amendment would be the same, The Second Amendment would 511 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:20,800 be the same, Abortion would be the same, Border issues would be the 512 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,159 same. I would still have these values. So would I vote for a 513 00:37:25,199 --> 00:37:29,920 politician that wanted me put to death? No, But I would vote for 514 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:35,480 a politician that supported, that fought for the values that I preach. And 515 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,599 yes, they happen to be conservative and Republican. And that's just the fact. 516 00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:45,440 So when people try to bring up the history, I'm like, well, 517 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,360 that's also the point. It's history, right, yea, because we 518 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,599 can spend all day going down history, going down that road as to who 519 00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:54,639 did what and who did when? I mean, do you want to go 520 00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:58,440 back to segregation? Do you want to go back to Democratic Party? I 521 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,639 mean, how far do you want to take this? Well? Yeah, 522 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,679 yeah, no, I understand that. But what I'm curious though, Kevin, 523 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,840 is like, do you get any pushback, you know, you're a 524 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,599 candidate for office as a Republican, do you get any pushback in your own 525 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:16,079 party in New York? Because because if if you look at the Republican Party's 526 00:38:16,119 --> 00:38:22,360 history with say, for example, marriage equality. Um you know, obviously 527 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,760 there are Republicans. Well I'll just give you just a quick example. So 528 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,280 here in New Hampshire, we were actually ahead of the curve on marriage equality 529 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,480 because um and uh Jenny was was serving in the in the House, uh, 530 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,760 in the legislature here uh in New Hampshire at the time. But um 531 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:45,320 so uh there there were a large contingent of Republicans in New Hampshire who voted 532 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,960 in favor of marriage equality and then voted against repealing it when some Republicans tried 533 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,960 to repeal it in the next term. So so we were ahead of the 534 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,920 curve. But part of what contributed to that was was, you know, 535 00:38:58,039 --> 00:39:00,039 some Republicans who said, no, we we we, you know, let's 536 00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:02,960 let's go ahead and let's go ahead and do this. Uh. Not not 537 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,239 all of them, of course, plenty of them opposed it as well, 538 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,760 but um and there there are certainly Republicans who who bristle at the idea of 539 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,119 undoing that. For example, um so, um so, there are a 540 00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:19,679 lot of Republicans who are pro marriage equality. But I'm just wondering, I 541 00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:23,480 mean, do you do you run into any any fellow Republicans or Republicans you've 542 00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:28,480 campaigned with, for example, who who have any issue. Again, I 543 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,559 wouldn't think that it would be a problem in in New York, not to 544 00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,719 you know, bring Northeastern elitism into it. But you know we can We're 545 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:43,159 both Northeasterners. We can do that. Um. Whereas you know, if 546 00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:47,679 you were if you were running for city council in Alabama or Mississippi or Oklahoma, 547 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:52,880 you know, as a Republican, you you might very well, uh, 548 00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:58,679 you know, you might run into some trouble. But I'm wondering have 549 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,000 you had any of that here or has it? Has that part been pretty 550 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:06,639 smooth because to your credit, you don't try to hide it. Um. 551 00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:09,159 You know again the website I was looking at, you know, you could 552 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:14,239 try to slide one by and refer to your partner on that website, but 553 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,960 you don't. You refer to him as your husband. If you had said 554 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,639 partner and captain ambiguous you might foolsome people, but you're not trying to fool 555 00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:25,559 anybody, which I really respect you for. Um. Because of the position 556 00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:29,719 that you're in, no one could blame you if you did try to sneak 557 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:35,280 one by you know what I mean? So and so, so it's it's 558 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,280 so it's interesting. I guess, first of all, it's a matter of 559 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,320 my approach, right, Yeah, um is to me. To me, 560 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:45,159 there's nothing special in that I that I do reference my husband in my description. 561 00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:50,400 I've seen plenty of profiles where you know, a male candidate will say 562 00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:53,559 my wife in regards to explaining why he's running for office, my wife, 563 00:40:53,639 --> 00:40:59,199 my family. I'm running because I want my family to have to live in 564 00:40:59,199 --> 00:41:01,440 a safety for a community. And that's the thing is first of all, 565 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,519 I want to stress I am not a gay candidate. I am not a 566 00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:10,519 gay Republican. I am a Republican candidate who happens to be gay, who 567 00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:17,639 happens to be a homosexual. So gay is not the priority of my identity. 568 00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:22,880 Yeah, It's not something I put any work into. It's something I 569 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,320 just am. So that's also the idea of taking pride in that. To 570 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,280 me, one of the things is taking pride in an identity that you didn't 571 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:36,480 work for. That's where you get into narcissism and you get into more entitlements. 572 00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:39,679 So for me, when I when I go to speak to a Republican 573 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,000 on the street or not. You know, I knock on their door. 574 00:41:43,519 --> 00:41:50,199 I don't introduce myself as HI, I'm Kevin the homosexual. I introduced myself 575 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,280 as HI. My name is Kevin Hammer. I'm running for city council. 576 00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:59,480 These are the issues that I'm focusing on, and that's where the conversation is. 577 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,039 Have I had Have I interacted with any pushback? Yeah, I've interact 578 00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:08,280 But to me, it's no different. So so I have out with Republicans, 579 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,599 uh I had. I do have an example of one Republican who couldn't 580 00:42:13,639 --> 00:42:19,000 get past the fact that I happened to be a homosexual man. Um But 581 00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:23,519 at the same time, I have people on the left who can't get past 582 00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:29,719 the fact that I'm a homosexual who's a Republican. So I witnessed it on 583 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,920 both sides. Now, when request some marriage equality specifically, um I was 584 00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,760 involved as an activist during that time. I actually marched on Washington, DC 585 00:42:38,039 --> 00:42:43,960 for the Equality March in two thousand and nine. Um So, yeah, 586 00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:45,480 yes, it was two thousand and nine. I believe, um So, 587 00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:51,800 I was involved, you know, in that. But to be honest, 588 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,480 my view even on that to a degree has changed. In regards to what 589 00:42:54,559 --> 00:42:59,760 I why I personally was was fighting for was is I wanted legal protections. 590 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:07,480 I wanted to be able to have to live my life with a man that 591 00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,320 I fell in love with and not have to worry about my family or anyone 592 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,760 else coming in during certain times, say I was injured in the hospital, 593 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,119 I didn't want to worry about my family coming in and laying claim to me. 594 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,960 I didn't want to worry about if I were to pass away my spouse, 595 00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:27,280 you know, being able to inherit what I leave him in my will. 596 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,280 I didn't want to worry about that. Now, a lot of people 597 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,000 say, well, you could still follow those you know, the legal processes 598 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,960 and leave. The problem is is that there was a history of it when 599 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,639 we didn't have those legal protections that even if someone said okay, I'm going 600 00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:46,400 to sign off that this person makes all medical decisions for me if I'm incapacitated, 601 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,320 or that my items go to this families would often come in and there 602 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,280 was a history of this and challenge it on the basis of morality and even 603 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:05,079 say well, we feel that our relative was brainwashed into this lifestyle and therefore 604 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,880 we want, you know, we want custody. We want a right to 605 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,280 him to make the decisions about his health, or we want to write to 606 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:15,960 his estate. And if a judge, if a judge's morality was in line 607 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:20,079 with that family. Quite often it didn't matter if there was a will, 608 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,119 it didn't matter, you know, if anything was on paper, the judge 609 00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:25,920 would go with that. So for me, it wasn't about even the word 610 00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:31,239 marriage. I just wanted security in the fact that there were legal protections for 611 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,599 me and the man that I love. Yeah, that's a big that's a 612 00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:40,159 big part of why um civil unions and my view that wasn't enough. You 613 00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:44,360 know, that was sort of the compromise when we when when civil unions came 614 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,760 in, and it was like, well but but as you know, some 615 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,639 of the examples that you gave are reasons why even civil unions didn't quite hold 616 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,559 up. And that's that's one of the reasons why it was. It was 617 00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:55,360 so important in my view. You know, like I said, I've always 618 00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,119 been pro marriage equality. But Kevin, we are. You've been very generous 619 00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:05,480 with your time. We're already it's about ten minutes of five, so we'll 620 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,400 we'll let you go. I know, you got to get to get to 621 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,719 dinner and so forth, but not to put you on the spot, but 622 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:15,239 I would like to do this again soon because I've really enjoyed the conversation and 623 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,880 I feel like we barely scratched the surface, and uh, you know, 624 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,079 you're an interesting guy. So I do hope we can do this again soon. 625 00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:27,239 But before we let you go, please, is there anything that we 626 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,880 should know for anyone who might be listening online in your area, where where 627 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,880 they should go to learn more about your campaign or social media or anything you 628 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,960 want to make sure our listeners know about, or anything that you're that you 629 00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:45,679 might be involved in online politically or otherwise that people should know about. Well, 630 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,800 I mean forum in regards to my campaign where you can learn more about 631 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:55,280 me and also my other amazing candidates were running alongside me. I really do 632 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:59,800 have some great people surrounding me. You on Facebook, you can go to 633 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:06,960 your GOP candidates for Schenectady City Council. It is actually the same on Twitter. 634 00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:10,760 Um there you can find links to our website and just just learn more 635 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,039 about us. But ultimately, I guess what I want to leave people with 636 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:22,719 is just to really work on avoiding the echo chambers that we have today in 637 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,360 our in our society, regardless of whether they are on the right or the 638 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:32,159 left. Echo chambers, I truly believe are one of the greatest dangers in 639 00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:37,119 our society today. We Once you get trapped in them, you get this 640 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:44,119 mentality to actually hate the other side. Yes, And the scary thing about 641 00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:49,280 that is once you convince yourself to hate someone, to hate a group of 642 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,760 people, history shows us that eventually you can justify doing the most horrific things 643 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,559 to those individuals. So get out of your echo chambers. If you're in 644 00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:00,920 it, think about your Think about your life for a moment. Say do 645 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,280 I have a friend, not an acquaintance. Do I have a friend or 646 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:09,639 someone that I can have deeper conversations with who's of a different perspective on this 647 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:15,119 issue or that issue, or a different political affiliation. And do we have 648 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:20,880 these conversations. If not, work on changing that, work on making connections, 649 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,559 because, like I said, it's it's the politicians, it's the media, 650 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:31,239 it's the hardcore activists that are creating this view that we are so divided 651 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:36,840 that we can't stand each other. But on the streets, I feel that 652 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,199 we very much still can have conversations. Oh yeah, and people treat each 653 00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:45,559 other differently in person than they do on social media anyway. Absolutely. Yeah. 654 00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:50,760 So by the way, I would love to come back on I'm very 655 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:57,119 much enjoying this conversation in your right over all the topics in general, we've 656 00:47:57,199 --> 00:48:02,079 just barely scratched the surface. Yeah, because I've definitely had an interesting journey, 657 00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:07,239 uh from from left to right and my walk away experience as well. 658 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,280 Yeah, yeah, definitely, Well we will we'll set something up, Jenny, 659 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,679 Jenny will uh connect with you on that and uh and and we'll make 660 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,639 it happen because I've enjoyed this very much. All right, Kevin Hammer, 661 00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,360 thank you again so much for joining us today, and uh we will talk 662 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,440 soon. Let's have a good day, all right you two, bye bye, 663 00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:30,320 all right, very good. That was Kevin Hammer, a Republican from 664 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,840 Schenectady, New York. He is on the ballot for uh all right, 665 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,519 well I don't know if there's a ballot yet, but he's running for city 666 00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:40,440 council uh there in Schenectady, and uh yeah, and I you know, 667 00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:44,880 I really like what he had to say about, you know, getting out 668 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:46,599 of the echo chambers, because that's and that's part of the reason why I 669 00:48:46,639 --> 00:48:50,760 wanted to talk with him today is because that's something that we talk about a 670 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,760 lot on this show, you know, and I really believe that, uh 671 00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:57,639 you know. In fact, we were talking just the other day about algorithms, 672 00:48:58,079 --> 00:49:00,480 you know, and how on social media, whether it be YouTube or 673 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:06,920 Facebook or whatever it is, you're you're actively served up content that matches what 674 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,440 you've already looked at, what you've already absorbed. So you're constantly being fed 675 00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:17,000 information that reinforces what you already think. And that's good in one sense, 676 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:25,480 right from a customer service standpoint, because you want to you want to be 677 00:49:25,639 --> 00:49:35,280 suggested, so to speak, products or services or content that you are going 678 00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,679 to be interested in. So you know, it's no different than on social 679 00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:43,079 media in terms of content. It's no different from when say you're shopping on 680 00:49:43,119 --> 00:49:49,079 Amazon. You want to be presented with products that somehow align with things that 681 00:49:49,119 --> 00:49:52,960 you've previously purchased or things that you've previously looked at. So that all makes 682 00:49:53,000 --> 00:50:00,519 sense. So the algorithms aren't necessary evil, but the evil part in the 683 00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:06,440 necessary evil is that, yeah, it does reinforce these echo chambers that we 684 00:50:06,519 --> 00:50:12,280 all get trapped in and that we're vulnerable too, and if you can have 685 00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:17,000 constructive intellectual discussions outside of that and outside of being you know, trapped in 686 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:21,719 an ideology. And you know, Kevin put it very well when he said, 687 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,360 what happens is that gets reinforced to the point where people who disagree with 688 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:31,480 each other begin to hate each other. And that's the worst part, and 689 00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:37,599 a lot of terrible things become justified because of that hatred. So yeah, 690 00:50:37,639 --> 00:50:39,880 so there you go. But like I said, I feel like we barely 691 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,960 scratched the surface with Kevin, so we will do that again soon