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What is crack lacking, fellow thermonuclear
a effort, I m Dad Valley coming

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at you without my certified Tigulus co
host Grant Hudes. But we continued with

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the onset of our two twenty three, twenty twenty four NBA team look aheads,

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not outlooks or previews, because these
are fancy smash here and there their

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look aheads, whatever that means.
I'm so excited as usual to be joined

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by Lazarus Jackson, associated with many
things over with the Detroit bad Boys.

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Follow him on I refused to say, X, I won't even change a

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little follow him on Twitter at last
chance. That's at lazh a n ze.

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He's a great basketball mind. He
does. He one promotes this podcast,

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which were very thankful for and sometimes
he listen to it, which is

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even more humbling when you someone you
respect listens to your podcast. So always

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left picking his brain about as you
may have guessed the Detroit Pistons. But

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the most important question we will ask
last how the heck are you doing?

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I'm doing great, Dan, thank
you once again for having me. When

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you were like this is year five
of us doing this, I was like,

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wow, Mike, my mind is
kind of blown. Also, I

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want to shout out the discord as
Twitter has transformed into x and done some

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other stuff. Just having another source
of basketball related discussion points your discord,

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the Hardwoodknocks Discord has been valuable for
me. So shout out to shout out

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to you and that. But yeah, we're we're doing great man. As

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you can see, I'm coming to
you from like a Romcom cabin somewhere in

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the Upper Peninsula, and I'm ready
to talk about the upcoming twenty twenty twenty

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four Detroit Pistons. Yeah, I
hope anyone was watching on YouTube appreciates lot

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you're you're there. I think you're
filming, helping with a live action of

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trolls. I believe commissioned by the
one and only chance. I'm assuming exactly.

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Just I'm one of the like many
many underpaid animators. Uh, probably

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a bad thing to say. During
the strike, I know there was like

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some exceptions to whatever. We support
the writers and animators and everyone put the

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studios. Basically that's where right.
So the basic question I have to start

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with, and I'm actually I'm sorry, it's what are your general thoughts impressions

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takeaway from the Pistons offseason. But
I will preface it by saying, you

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wrote you always. I appreciate how
thorough you always like you go in and

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you you respond to all the outline
topics, which I love. But I

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did notice when I was looking through
it, and You're not the only one

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that said this. People were shocked
that we were complimentary on this podcast with

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the Pistons off season. Some were
shocked because apparently, and I don't remember

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this, we haven't done regrade yet, we like have viscerated them last year.

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I don't even I don't remember what
is time. But I'm shocked that

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so many people are shocked that we
enjoyed the Pistons offseason. But but where

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did you land on it? So
yeah, I was. I wasn't shocked,

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but I was definitely surprised. You're
you and Grants rationale made sense,

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and I agreed with the rationale.
However, like normally, you expect more

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from a team that just won seventeen
games and a front office that's going into

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year four of a regime that has
won seventeen, twenty three and twenty games

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over the last three seasons. And
so I think Pistons fans, myself included

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just expected something a little bit more, a bigger sense of urgency than what

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we got. There's a lot of
reliance on internal development, which is not

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the worst plan considering the assemblage of
like young talent that they've put together.

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However, it seems like they're still
falling behind in terms of like where their

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young core would rank and in terms
of like where they're going to finish this

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season in terms of wins and losses
for this yeas. Normally a front office

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that hasn't had the success that this
front office has had would do like something

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in terms of personnel to make you
feel like they were like really trying to

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win games this season. It feels
like there their biggest acquisition was Monty Williams,

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who were going to talk about relatively
quickly. But in terms of like

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personnel, they're really just like returning
hopefully a fully healthy Kaide Cunningham and hoping

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that all their young guys get better, and like that's that's not the worst

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plan, but you would have liked
to see, I don't know, an

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addition on the wing right another like
three and D guy. I know they

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were obviously like linked to Cam Johnson. You don't want to play the restrictive

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free agency game. I understand that
very well. So I think PRISTMS fans

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were just hoping for like a little
bit more than what they got. There's

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you you pointed out in the question
too, and the and the and the

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write up is like rolling over the
flexibility next season is not a bad thing.

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But also Pistons fans have been burned
by free agency before, and so

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there's not a lot of confidence that
they're going to be able to turn the

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forty five million dollars they have in
cap space next season into somebody that's like

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truly going to help them win like
instantly, like elevate them like to another

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like ten plus fifteen plus wins.
Right. I think I might have been

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more critical of the off season if
maybe we went through an entire year of

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kid that not getting injured less season, so like you just don't have this

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is basically his sophomore campaign. Now, yeah, it's like, so you

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don't have the information necessary. And
I respect because I read it as and

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I think this sort of leaks into
the Maddi Williams conversation that the front office,

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which when you point out there in
year four, just like wow,

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like man try Riever's been here for
a minute that they have the latitude like,

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hey, we don't need to rush
this. And I think I actually

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think teams need to be more aggressive
in going after restricted free agents if you

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don't have other like you know,
would the Joe Harris trade has still been

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available if you tried to poach Cam
Johnson from the Nets. That's a fair

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question, but like you could have
still like Demni Morris trade doesn't seem like

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it would have gone everywhere, Like
you could have waited the amount of time

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for the Nets to match an offer
sheet if you wanted to inflate Cam Johnson

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or if you wanted to be the
team. And I'm still angry about this,

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not Pistons specific, but how did
no one make the Lakers pay more

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for Austin Reeves with a poison pill? And so I get that frustration,

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But again it just comes down to
me like, well, what other moves

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out there? And if you knew
you weren't getting Cam, I think a

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lot of people nationally for him,
doesn't, why would they help the Nets

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keep Cam Johnson? It was like
because the Nets were always gonna keep Cam

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Johnson. And so I totally understand
that. I just looking at the options

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that might have been out there,
like did you punt on the ongoing PJ

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Washington sweepstakes or something? I mean, did you sit out Austin Reeves like

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I mentioned, that's that's I think
that's a fair critique, but just knowing

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what was out there, And again, I can't get past Kaye playing in

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only twelve games. I want to
see more about how this roster coalaces before

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I think that they need to make
the bigger personnel swing. That's fair,

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that's fair. Where did What did
you think of the Monty Williams Higher?

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Not just in terms of fit and
any insight into how you think this team

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is run, but just oh,
they made it so he couldn't say no

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because it sounded like he tried to
say no, and they were aggressive enough,

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aggressive enough that he ended up not
being able to say no. So

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the Higher was the best thing they
did this offseason by like a mile.

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Like it. You have to remember
before Monty Williams was even like fired,

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the names we were hearing in the
Pistons coaching surf were all first time head

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coaches and like Charles Lee, Kevin
Allie, and Gerard Collins, and so

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I was like, I would have
had so much more unused about this upcoming

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season if not only they had not
done much in terms of like changing the

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roster personnel, but also we were
going into like a first time head coach

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who we like didn't have a good
sense of what they were going to bring

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from like an offensive war defensive identity. Right, So breaking the bank for

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Monny Williams, who has a pre
existing relationship with Troy Weaver super important on

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that front. A guy who has
already done what I think the Pistons want

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to do in terms of taking a
talented team that had hadn't had a lot

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of success to that next level is
definitely like really appealing a guy who did

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it by modernizing the offense around two
star guards. It's like we kind of

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have those, and so like,
yeah, Monty was definitely a perfect fit

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in terms of situation and for this
team. It's not my money. The

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contract reset the coaching market, I'm
I'm pleased with that. Like, honestly,

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I think coach isn't count against the
salary cap. You talked about this

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a little bit in the in the
Central Division off season thing, but it

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was like, yeah, it's like, it's not my money and you need

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a good coach, so it's like, just go get it. I will

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say, though, like the stories
we got about the how the Pistons coaching

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search was going before Monty Williams was
available, we're not very encouraging. It

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sounded like there was a a lot
of internal discussion about what to do from

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a coaching perspective between the GM and
other members of the front office, which

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is not great. You would like
more alignment than I think the Pistons were

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showing. I do think what's interesting
about it, and I agree with everything

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you said there is there's almost a
disconnect between what we just talked about with

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their off season and what their aims
ended up being. And then, oh,

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you spent this much on a veteran
head coach, which might imply that

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you're looking to make not just the
jump. Oh okay, we go from

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seventeen wins, like seventeen wins,
we win ten more games. Because the

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baseline was so low, it would
infer you would think normally that no,

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like this is going to be like
more of an accelerated process, but the

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roster kind of says something different.
So do you worry about that sort of

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disconnect between Monty Williams what he in
theory could represent and that financial commitment versus

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what this team is actually rolling out
on the floor. No, because part

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of the financial commitment is dollars,
but the other part of the financial commitment

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is years. Right. I believe
he signed a six year deal, and

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so it was I felt he was
nine. The way. It was just

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like, oh, it's for eternity. It's like, he's probably going to

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be there longer than the front office, right, and if there's if there's

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any front office changes, and so
I was like, if he's going to

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be here for the long haul,
they don't feel as much of a need

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to press the accelerator, right,
And so in my mind those kind of

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go hand in hand. But at
the same time, it would it would

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have been nice to see them portray
themselves as what they portray them or put

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them selves in a position from a
personnel perspective as to what they're saying like

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outwardly, which is like, we
would like to be more competitive. I

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was like, okay, well if
you'd like It's like from a coaching perspective,

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like, yes, I agree,
you've done You've done things that make

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me agree that you want to be
more competitive from a roster perspective less.

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So I do wonder, now that
you mentioned it, what the length of

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Monty's contract says about the latitude and
like job security of Troy Reaver at this

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point, because like that's a really
long contract to say, you know,

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things don't go well in year one
or year two of that contract, you're

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really gonna get rid of Troy Reaver
when Monty Williams has let's say three or

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four guarantee years left on his contract. So I will say, like they

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hired Dwayne Casey in a transition period
in terms of a front office, right,

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like Stan was the GM man the
coach, they fired him, They

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bring in Dwayne, don't really hire
a GM like Ed Stefanski was like brought

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in to lead the search and then
kind of decided like I should run the

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team for a little bit. And
so Tom Gore's is not a phrase to

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he. I think they prefer coaching
continuity, right if they can have it,

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And so like I if something happened, I like, I don't think

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this is going to be the case, but like if they win like twenty

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three and twenty three games, the
next two years and like the front office

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gets fired, I think they would
still let money like coach out the majority

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of that contract. If he wants
to write like I don't know, maybe

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he wants to do something else.
At that point, they'll have the money

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to do something else. I think. I actually think the best thing they

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did, even though it was a
no brainer, was drafted Starr Thompson.

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I'm glad you think this was a
no brainer because it was not a no

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brainer to a lot of people,
which probably means that it wasn't just because

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I'm like a million feet away from
it. So if there was other moves

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or ideas on the table, maybe
trading down. I respect them going after

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someone who feels a need, but
maybe isn't the perfect functional fit. I

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believe in the jumper he ended up
higher than Amen Thompson on on my big

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board for what it's worth, which
is absolutely nothing, and he just get

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early impressions of his game or insider
thoughts on how prominently he will be used

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as a rookie. They love the
sar. I love the star. Everybody

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loves a star after Las Vegas.
I don't think he starts right away,

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but I also don't think he gets
lost in the shuffle of the rotation.

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They have a lot of guys who
could play, but after what he showed

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in Vegas, I think they'd make
space for him to play. He might

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already be their best permitter defender.
He showed enough basketball instinct basketball feel to

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where even if the shot isn't where
you would like it to be in year

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one, I still think he can
make contributions offensively in the half court and

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when they get out in transition,
he's a terror. So like, you

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hope they're able to make that happen
offensively like the I recently did a podcast

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with Amaris and Kof and Bryce Simon
over at the Free Pistons Pulse, and

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they asked, like, do you
think this is this is like before the

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expectations like really set in, Like
do you think this is the season to

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get a star like fifteen p and
R, you know, initiating pick and

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roll possessions a game just so you
can lay that groundwork. And my answer

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was like not, not really,
Like I don't think you hope that that

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eventually becomes part of his game,
but I don't expect that out of the

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gate, and I don't want to
force feed him those reps if he's not

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ready for it either. And I
but I also don't think that, like

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I don't think he'll ever be Jalen
Brown, right, Like, I don't

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ever think he'll be like a even
like a secondary initiator type of guy.

204
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But I do think he'll be a
really really effective player for this team from

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day one. I think he's a
guy who, like he just fills in

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the cracks of like whatever a team
like needs offensively and defensively. And I

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don't know if you've read any of
like the glowing features that have come out

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about the Thompson twins about like how
like they eat, sleep and breathe nothing

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but basketball, because like that stuff
makes you feel confident that they'll figure out

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ways to be contributors at the absolute
least. How do you feel about his

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jumper, which I think was that
that and the passing felt like it was

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the bigger And you mentioned that with
the P and R stuff from looking at

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it in And again, I don't
watch these guys when they're actually playing in

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college, like it's all cramming before
the draft, But even in summer league,

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there's like a it's quick enough that
I'm like, he feels comfortable enough

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taking it, and I think there's
even been just glowing. I feel like

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I read something that said he's already
just like you use the terms eat,

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sleep, and breathe, Like he's
doing that with his jump shot development,

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and I just like compared to like
kind of the slower load time on Amend's

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jumper. Maybe that's not the baseline
I should be judging off, but like,

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I just believe in it. Like
maybe it's never something that happens off

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the dribble, but I just believe
that he's going to be a you know,

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a lee average shooter off the catch, not maybe from day one obviously,

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yeah, definitely not from day one, But I think I think he

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eventually gets to like league average league
averages. So like I don't know,

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we're thinking about league average being like
thirty five percent, but league average is

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starting to creep up to like thirty
six, thirty seven percent as well,

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it's thirty eight something if I'm not
mistaken. Yeah, And so I do

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think eventually he gets to that level
as a catch and shoot guy, not

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so much as an off the triple
guy. I would hope that's that's a

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00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:33,720
hope not an expectation, right,
But I will say what I do expect

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is that even if he if he
hits not he gets a slightly lower level

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as a shooter. I expect him
to be a guy who uses his athleticism

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to eat up space and causes problems
for defenses, even without the ability to

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necessarily like space the floor. As
much as you'd like those those guys,

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both both the Thompson twins, seems
like they will be doing, willing to

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do whatever it takes to contribute to
winning basketball, right, and so I

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have no doubt that, like they, he will make that happen. I

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was going through our outlook from last
year and I basically didn't have to change

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the wording of this Gig Cunningham question
because we barely saw him. What are

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you just watching for with him heading
into two year three? And I think

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a lot of focus has been on
the shooting. But I'm starting to wonder,

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00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,119
and this leads into the SR.
Thompson conversation a little bit more,

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just do they have the spacing for
him to even try to generate any rim

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00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:33,720
pressure? Do you trust him to
have that speed on on ball to do

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00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:34,880
that? Is that just not a
concern for you, just what are you

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00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:40,079
watching most most closely for as he
goes into year three. I am watching

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00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:47,319
for the three point percentage first because
I think that will force if you force

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00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,839
teams to not be able to go
under, that will alleviate a lot of

250
00:17:49,839 --> 00:17:53,279
spacing concerns, so teams feel like
they have to chase him overpicks. That

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00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:59,799
helps a lot in terms of spacing. That gets you into like rear contests.

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He's so much bigger than the guys
who will be guarding him most of

253
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,480
the time. That gets you into
the biggs coming downhill and being able to

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00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:11,880
make plays for himself, and some
of the biggs can make plays for themselves

255
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,359
out of that. It opens up, like you know, weak side help

256
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,079
rotations like and we no kid can
pass and spray passes to shooters as well.

257
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So I look at the three point
percentage and the ability to make those

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00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:29,119
threes off the dribble because I think
that opens up the rest of his game.

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00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,799
And I feel like I said,
this is exact same thing last year,

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00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:36,720
but I'm not on undred percent sure. But Dan, where did Kay

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00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:40,119
go in your twenty three under twenty
three draft? This is a good chance

262
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,200
to own up to being a coward. So he was on my big board,

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00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:45,400
and I think I mentioned that in
the pod for people who only watch

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00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,519
the short. We obviously didn't have
time to throw in there. He was

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00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,200
seven or on board, and I
still waited until ten to pick him,

266
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and it was I threw this in
the outlook too. It's just like,

267
00:18:55,559 --> 00:18:56,920
are we just he was out of
sight, out of mind and now we're

268
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,240
just way too low on him to
where I think the debate we had just

269
00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:03,559
in the moment, I don't even
remember who went one through nine. I

270
00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:06,680
remember like the top three. I
think it was just like, oh,

271
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,720
should we take Chet home going over
Kake Cunningham? And in retrospects, it's

272
00:19:08,759 --> 00:19:14,200
just like no, Like we've seen
Kake Cunningham play NBA basketball, and I

273
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,359
think Jet Homer's gonna be really good. But there's just something about I know,

274
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,480
the percentages don't line up, and
people like to point out just how

275
00:19:19,519 --> 00:19:22,920
low his true shooting percentage have been. And I'm gonna say this with Jay

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00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,960
and Ivy Tooth, the aesthetics of
his game just make so much sense.

277
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,400
And I know that's so vague,
but you just watch it and you're like,

278
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,559
no, this fucking guy can play
like there is just a field there,

279
00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:34,720
And I think he's gonna end up
being like, you know, if

280
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,319
you told me this year he hits
like thirty six thirty seven percent of a

281
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,680
step back threes and be like,
I'm not surprised. Yeah, yeah,

282
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:48,799
last year you could see him do
a lot of damage in the mid range

283
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,440
prior to the injury. And I
think, and other people agree with me,

284
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,599
that the injury, the shin injury, contributed a lot to the problems

285
00:19:57,599 --> 00:20:02,279
he had shooting. His shot was
already kind of flat, and so if

286
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,640
your shin hurts and you can't elevate
the way you'd like to, it's like

287
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,960
that probably has an impact on the
way you're able to shoot. He didn't

288
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,400
make excuses, but kid's not the
type of guy to make excuses for why

289
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:18,880
his SHOT's not falling. So I
think both with the rehab on the lower

290
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,799
body injury, the work he's been
able to do during the rehab in terms

291
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:27,200
of like fixing it so the shot
looks a little bit better mechanically, I'm

292
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:33,160
expecting big time improvements from him as
a shooter this upcoming season. We will

293
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:37,480
see, but yeah, there's no
way he should have been under chet Holgan.

294
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,240
Come on, come on, dad, Hey he wasn't. There was

295
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:47,880
a debate. So Jay n Ivy
is I came away from his rookie season

296
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,640
mostly impressed, and I think they're
different players. But one of the biggest

297
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,759
criticisms I have of Jalen Green is
it's like, dude, there's another number

298
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:57,920
on the dial other than eleven.
And Jay n Ivy like was able to

299
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,200
vary up his cade more as he
was going through his rookie year. And

300
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,559
I think even his thirty seven plus
percent shooting on catch and shoot threes,

301
00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:08,200
I think he probably benefited from like
a later season boone. But that's encouraging.

302
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,559
What should we be watching for with
him in year two? And because

303
00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:15,200
we don't have the sample and I
know I asked you this question last year

304
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,119
as well, what do you kind
of make of the potential fit between him

305
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,279
and Kade, especially now that,
as you mentioned, he won't be starting,

306
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:25,960
but our star Thompson is going to
factor into the fold as well.

307
00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:32,359
Yeah, so I was legitimately impressed
with the in season improvement we saw Jade

308
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,039
and Ivy make last season. I
think the early part of this season will

309
00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:41,480
be really important for both Kade and
Jaden. There were times early in the

310
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:48,400
season last year where it looked like
Kade was working really hard to get Jayden

311
00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:52,920
going in a way that looked like
Kaide was sacrificing his own offense to do.

312
00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:56,119
And I think it's going to be
really important for them to be able

313
00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,200
to find a not a like your
turn, my turn balance, but like

314
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:06,079
a who who can do what when
balance for both of those guys, because

315
00:22:06,079 --> 00:22:10,000
I do think there's a lot of
room for both of them to be able

316
00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:14,720
to share and make plays off of
each other. Kaide, I think will

317
00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:18,359
be there's a there's room for Kade
to move off the ball and for Jaden

318
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,160
to initiate to give defenses a little
bit of a different look. There's definitely,

319
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,359
like Monty ran, a lot of
like Spain pick and roll and like

320
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:32,400
guard guard off guard ball screening for
guards in Phoenix. I think there's a

321
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,200
lot of room for the ability to
create advantages for Jaden doing stuff like that.

322
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,400
And this might not be in the
plans right now just because they have

323
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,319
a billion guards on the roster,
but there's opportunity for Jaden to you know,

324
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:48,200
play without Kade at times and like
bench lineups and make a lot of

325
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:55,119
hay out of those, just like
decimating small slower guards who like can't start

326
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,480
right. But the biggest thing I'm
looking for from Jaden is actually on defense.

327
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:06,680
He started off the year just like
atrocious on defense, absolute tire fire,

328
00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:11,200
and he ended the year not that
bad. I am looking to see

329
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:18,960
if those improvements a maintain and be
continue like over the course of another season.

330
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:25,039
But like Jaden's only six four,
you can't be as bad a defender

331
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:29,119
as he was for like the first
thirty games of his career and be that

332
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,960
height and like play in the playoffs, right, I'm looking to make sure

333
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,240
that he continues to work on the
defensive part of his game like he was.

334
00:23:40,279 --> 00:23:42,759
His inability to like navigate screens was
just like super apparent. It was

335
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:48,240
bad, but he got a lot
better at it. This next questioned for

336
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,799
it. Thank thank you for waiting, because this is the thing that gets

337
00:23:52,839 --> 00:23:55,720
me in trouble with Pistons fans.
So I appreciate you like waiting until this

338
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:59,400
twenty five minute mark for me to
get in trouble, because I think you

339
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,240
got in trouble last year because of
what your thoughts on Jay and Ivy.

340
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,039
I believe you're getting in trouble before
the draft, and you got in trouble

341
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:10,400
after you did this podcast too.
I believe the dude, the two big

342
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,279
stuff, is it maybe overblown at
this point. I went back and looked

343
00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:17,279
at the numbers. I never want
to see Jalen durn and James Watson played

344
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:19,279
together again. Is that something that's
going to factor in here? Or are

345
00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:22,640
we gonna be maybe pleasantly surprised with
Oh, look at how like many boy

346
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:32,279
Bugdanovich at the four lineups are rolled
out this season. So I hope to

347
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:37,319
god we don't see anymore James Wiseman
Jaleen during minutes. Just like defensive rating

348
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,799
together. By the way, it
was sub ninety six, and their defensive

349
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,160
rating together was I think like one
hundred and twenty two. And I will

350
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,359
say, I don't know if I
mentioned this already. I mentioned it in

351
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,359
the outline. The podcast you recorded
with Ben immediately after the trade happened was

352
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,839
just one of the best, not
just Pistons related things. Let's do would

353
00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:00,000
just breakdowns of like fits that I
can just it was so like you skewered

354
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,319
it, but it was like so
sensible. I absolutely it was one of

355
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,039
my favorite podcasts of the year.
I had to mention that, thank you,

356
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,000
thank you. We're going to talk
about James Wiseman later. Yeah,

357
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:17,079
so we'll talk about the two bigs
instead. So I think that it's two

358
00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:22,279
bigs, but it's two non Stewart
bigs that were the real issue. Stewart

359
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,279
hurt his shoulder if I remember Isaiah
Stewart. Be Stewart hurt his shoulder towards

360
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:27,480
the end of last season, if
I remember correctly, and so like didn't

361
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,759
play like the last like twenty five
or so games. Plus they were current

362
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:37,359
lose games anyway, and he showed
enough strides as a like nominal four,

363
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,279
being able to put the ball on
the floor, being able to shoot the

364
00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:44,680
ball a little bit for a small
stretch, and the team has a lot

365
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,000
of confidence in his ability to shoot
the ball moving forward. That I feel

366
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:52,119
their confidence makes me like, Okay, I'm willing to wait and see on

367
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:59,440
how they integrate two big lineups that
include Isaiah Stewart. It's when you have

368
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,640
two big line ups that are like
Jaylen durn and Marvin Bagley, or like

369
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,720
Marvin Backley and James Wiseman, or
Jaylendrn and James those two big lineups like

370
00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:11,920
don't make any sense, and I
really really hope they move away from them.

371
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,720
The other thing is that, like
everything we've seen from Monty, Williams

372
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,839
says that like he won't play two
bigs if he feels like it's not the

373
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,720
right move, right, Like there
were some like Sarch eight minutes at time

374
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,720
for Phoenix back when like Sarch was
a thing for them, but like mostly

375
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:33,279
they used Sarich as a backup center
and even like he was a little bit

376
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:36,480
of a floor spacer and like a
printer guy for them. But like even

377
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,279
then, like you know, we
weren't seeing like Jacques Landell and DeAndre and

378
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,000
like play together, right, Like
Monty prefers to go with guys on the

379
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,200
wing, and so I do think
if they can help it, they will

380
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:53,839
play like one big lineups most of
the time, especially off the bench.

381
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,799
But yeah, the two big lines
where mess last season. A lot of

382
00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:04,880
it was I think because of the
desire to accommodate James Wiseman and like give

383
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:10,839
James Wiseman the run that he hadn't
gotten a chance to show at that time

384
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,440
in the NBA. And that will
be I think less of a concern for

385
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:22,039
the team moving forward this season,
and I would think, and you the

386
00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:23,519
stuff you pointed out about Monny's a
great I didn't even think of that.

387
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,000
Just having Boyan Bardanovitch making the trade
for Joe Harris, having US star Thompson,

388
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:33,839
it made me think, Okay,
like, no, they're not going

389
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,279
to be It's just okay, Marvin
Bagley's on this roster. It's just it.

390
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:38,880
And like James Wiseman, not that
he's breaking case for emergency, we

391
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,200
will talk about him, but it's
not. Jalen Duran is the guy.

392
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,799
And so it's just I look at
the makeup of this roster and I'm like,

393
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,400
they're not really heavily invested in and
like, even if they wanted to,

394
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,359
the Isaiah Stewart extension isn't a ton
of money where it's if it's not

395
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,039
working, like you move around like
those pieces in the rotation. So I'm

396
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:59,400
hopeful and even more hopefully now if
you're listening to you talk about Monny Williams,

397
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,160
that we will see the two big
lineups where Stewart isn't one of the

398
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,880
two bigs fired into the sun almost
never to return unless they're trying to lose

399
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,920
games again at the end of the
season. Speaking of Jalen during, its

400
00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:18,200
say, and I forgot about the
Beef stew injury too, and so it

401
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:19,160
was like part of it, and
Bagley was injury for a bunch of last

402
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,480
year. It's like maybe they were
playing those two out of I won't call

403
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:25,000
it necessity, which is like,
yeah, what what what the fuck out

404
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:30,000
three are we gonna do? Uh? Speaking of Jalen durn, I am

405
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,559
one so bad at evaluating biggs before
they're in the NBA. It's not even

406
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,079
like it's probably so funny at this
point, but it's also hopeless. I

407
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:41,759
am smitten by Jalen during and it
was just like the stuff from what I

408
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:42,680
saw of the Pistons, Like as
the season went on, it's like,

409
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,480
oh, it felt like he was
connecting on his screens more and oh,

410
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,440
that movement away from the ball was
so much more fluid. This is just

411
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:52,799
not like that is not yes,
he can do that stuff, but that

412
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,079
is not Jaalen during only it's just
like, oh, did he just kind

413
00:28:56,079 --> 00:28:57,599
of bust out a post move?
Was that like a little hook shot?

414
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,759
Was that like a flip shot?
He's It's like, what is the ceiling

415
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,079
on this kid? And what are
you the cookie cutter aspect of this?

416
00:29:04,119 --> 00:29:08,200
What are you just watching for as
he goes into year two. I love

417
00:29:08,279 --> 00:29:14,799
Jalen Durn. I am also smitten
with Jalen Durn. Paul George loves Jalen

418
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Durn. I don't know if you
heard that clip from the PG podcast about

419
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,799
him talking about Durren and going up
against him. No confession. I don't

420
00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:23,680
listen to a kind of player podcast
because I find them to be very superficial

421
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:29,519
and uninformative. I've been told JJ
Redix is good. I've heard like and

422
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:30,960
I've listened to his. I've heard
some of Draymond's, which can be that's

423
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,039
a lot of propaganda. I've been
told that I need to rectify the I

424
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,880
haven't listened to Paul George's podcast ever. I've been told I need to rectify

425
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,759
that the quick aside. The thing
with the Player podcast is the guests need

426
00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:49,559
to be like pretty good, right, because otherwise the I love a lot

427
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:53,400
of the players, but the level
of like questioning you're going to get from

428
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,599
them is not going to be like
exceptional most of right, So you need

429
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,799
a good guest to make it work. But no, PG was just isn't

430
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,400
like I'm not going to pretend I
listened to the whole podcast, But PG

431
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:07,240
was really complimentary of Jalen durn one
pod after they played. He's just like,

432
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,920
holy shit, this dude's a truck
and he's nineteen and he's killing us.

433
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:15,720
But yeah, I was really happy
that Darren was also part of the

434
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,799
select team. He also played really
well in the footage of the scrimmages we

435
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:22,880
got. He put brandon Ingram like
completely under the basket on like an up

436
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,240
and under moove. That was really
nice. And you talked about his ability

437
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:30,119
to like make flip shots and hook
shots around the room. The thing that

438
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,839
I really appreciate that I think you
don't get to see all the time,

439
00:30:34,839 --> 00:30:40,279
but like Shay shows flashes of is
his ability as a passer. Right you

440
00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:45,480
could do a little bit of like
the him passing out of the elbow right

441
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,480
there were there was a moment.
There was a moment, and they had

442
00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:52,720
a home game against Denver, like
super late in the season where Denver like

443
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,680
slept walk through the first like three
and a half quarters before Yokich was like,

444
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,240
wait, why are we losing these
guys and just like completely erratic at

445
00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:02,920
them. But like there was a
moment where like Duran was like hitting Wiseman

446
00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:06,720
on some high lows and you were
like like sure, yeah, that's cool,

447
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:10,599
Like I can see the what like
Troy Weaver is like trying to accomplish

448
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,480
here. There was a really nice
play he made out of the short role

449
00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,880
as a passer, like kind of
earlier in the season to beat Charlotte,

450
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,000
he hits Sadeq in the corner in
a like clutch situation that was like,

451
00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:27,319
oh okay, Like despite the fact
that he's nineteen, he's still like not

452
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,720
panicking in the clutch and like taking
the time to like hit the open guy

453
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,640
because like he was, he was
this close to like committing a charge and

454
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,960
instead like he just gets the ball
out and makes the right play. That

455
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:41,359
was one thing that like Anthony Edwards
mentioned in his interviews, like about Duran

456
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,440
at like the scrimmages at the Select
team, like at the practices they had

457
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,000
before FIBA. He was like,
Yeah, Jalen Durning like thinks the game

458
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,400
a lot better than I think he
gets credit for. And that's one thing

459
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,319
that like I think people need to
know I would tell people that they need

460
00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:59,279
to know about Jalen Durning is he
thinks the game a lot better than it

461
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:01,720
looks like he would because he looks
like he's carved out a granite. Right.

462
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,920
What I am looking for him this
season though, is defense. Right,

463
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:14,559
he makes some like highlight level blocks, but he is nineteen and liking

464
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:16,799
a young big, he stills to
do a better job of like learning where

465
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:22,240
to be defensively, putting hands and
passing lanes, not trying to block every

466
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,680
single thing that comes along his line
of sight. He had had a thirty

467
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,240
and seventeen game against San Antonio.
You're like, whoa like thirty and seventeen

468
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,640
from a nineteen year old, that's
crazy, But Zach Collins went for twenty

469
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,119
nine and eleven and a lot of
it was on Jaylen Duran Is Like that

470
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,799
stuff can't happen if you want to
be competitive, and so he really needs

471
00:32:42,839 --> 00:32:46,839
to make strides defensively. The other
thing I'll say is that like his effort

472
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,359
and motor has like been a little
bit of a question. Nobody questions that,

473
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,799
Like he doesn't always want to play
hard, but he does kind of

474
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:59,920
do the young guy thing of like
taking himself out of transition defense, like

475
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:05,279
chasing offensive rebounds. The coaching staff
like infamously like brought him off the bench

476
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,440
towards the end of the season in
favor of Wiseman, which is where I

477
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,319
think you see a lot of the
national confusion because it's like, oh,

478
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:15,519
they were starting Wiseman over during last
season, like maybe they're super prioritizing Wiseman,

479
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:17,319
and it's like no, Like the
coaches were like openly saying like,

480
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:21,599
yeah, Durn's not conditioned enough for
our taste, so like that's why he's

481
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,920
coming off the bench. And you
would see moments in time where he'd be

482
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,240
like huffing and puffing a little to
get back in transition, and it's like,

483
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:30,720
Okay, you'd like to see him
improve a little bit on that end

484
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:35,279
as well, but yeah, like
everybody's super enamored with Jalen Duran. He

485
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,359
is the big that they're going to
prioritize moving forward. Like I know,

486
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,039
Stu just got paid. Stu is
part of the future. During is part

487
00:33:40,079 --> 00:33:44,079
of the future. The other guys
are not necessarily part of the future.

488
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,799
That should like should be made clear
to everybody. The other guy who's not

489
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,559
part of the future, And I
feel really bad saying this because he's still

490
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:55,480
only twenty two and he's that limited
action. If there was a does the

491
00:33:55,559 --> 00:33:59,920
least with the most award, I
feel like James Wiseman would win it.

492
00:34:00,559 --> 00:34:04,880
Yeah. What were your impressions of
him during his so far short stint in

493
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,519
Detroit? So I did not have
a positive impression of James Wiseman going into

494
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:14,519
the trade. You mentioned the podcast
episode Ben and I did about what James

495
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:19,519
Wiseman would and would not bring to
the Pistons. That mostly turned out correct,

496
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,320
I think, But watching him for
the twenty five or so games,

497
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,840
we got to see him like I
understood what they were going for. Right.

498
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:36,519
There are moments where he does something
at his size and with his coordination

499
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:40,000
and his like fluidity athletically then make
you go like, oh my gosh,

500
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,280
like I totally get it. At
the same time, if you want to

501
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,239
win games, you just can't play
him, right. He's like, yes,

502
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,480
he's twenty two, but he still
has no clue where to be on

503
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:58,239
defense and did not like make any
strides in that area over the last part

504
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,719
of the season. He's easily fooled
by like drivers, like you give him

505
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,519
like a hesitation dribble and like you
can get an open fifteen footer, Like

506
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,239
it just is what it is.
The other thing and the thing that so

507
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,440
damaging. There's this guy who used
to work for Detroit bad Boy Steve Henson.

508
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,880
He still does like Pistons analysis on
the side now. He had this

509
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,920
like twenty thread twenty tweet thread about
how like Wiseman was like the single most

510
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,679
selfish basketball player he had ever seen, and it was really hard to refute

511
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:37,440
any of it. Right, It's
like Wiseman wouldn't make contact on screens,

512
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,719
just like slip into space and like
demand the ball like he was Joel Embiid

513
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,079
And it's like, dude, go
set a mfing screen for Jade and Ivy

514
00:35:46,159 --> 00:35:51,320
and stop asking for the ball.
It's like it should have been a big

515
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,960
clue when he like wouldn't when you
when you won't set screens for Steph Curry,

516
00:35:57,199 --> 00:35:59,760
like it makes a lot of sense
that you wouldn't set screens for Jade,

517
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,840
right right, And so yeah,
it's just he wants to do his

518
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,760
own thing offensively and that he can't
be featured offensively in the way he would

519
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:16,119
prefer to be. And he isn't
good enough defensively to accentuate that fact.

520
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:22,480
Right, So in my mind,
like Wiseman is completely unplayable if they want

521
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,679
to be as competitive as they say
they want to be this season, I

522
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,679
hold no like personal animus towards James
Wiseman, right, I just think he

523
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:36,360
can't play. He probably opens the
season though as their third big, right

524
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:42,239
you have Darren and stew and then
it's exactly is the backup five? Yeah?

525
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,800
I know the bare minimum about Marcus
Sasser, and I wasn't like this

526
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:50,119
gets too nit picky, but I
was like, oh, number thirty one

527
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:53,480
and two seconds for Marcus Sasser.
Can you can you sell me on the

528
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,480
theory of Marcus sassor what the idea
is with him, because from what I

529
00:36:57,559 --> 00:37:00,199
do know and what I have seen, I'm just not like, oh,

530
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:01,800
is that like that was the move? I just again, it's a small

531
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:07,119
move, but I know so little
about it. Yeah, they like Sassor

532
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:12,239
a lot. I kind of like
Sassor. I was surprised they felt like

533
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,280
they had to trade up to get
him, but apparently like Boston was gonna

534
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,679
get him at twenty seven or something, So I get it right, Now,

535
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,480
the team has a lot of guards, so it's tough to see where

536
00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:28,719
he plays in the rotation, right
Like, But that with that said,

537
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,360
Monty Morris and Alec Burks are both
going to be free agents at the end

538
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,840
of the season, so there's definitely
gonna be an opportunity for Sasser to be

539
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,280
a part of this team in the
not too just the future. And like

540
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,840
think of Sassor's like Javon Carter,
with like a little bit more shot making,

541
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,079
right, like a really hilacious on
ball defender, a little bit undersized,

542
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,840
but like great hands. But he
was a really good shooter at Houston,

543
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:58,639
both like off the catch and like
being able to create create his own

544
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:01,320
shot. And the big provement he
made from his junior to his senior year

545
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,440
was being able to finish around the
basket before he could get to the basket,

546
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,880
but not finish. In his senior
year, he got a lot finish.

547
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,920
He got a lot better finishing around
the basket. And so like,

548
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:14,840
I definitely think there's a role for
Sasser on this team moving forward, but

549
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,400
it's probably not going to appear in
this upcoming season. But I like him

550
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,639
and the team seems liking to probably
the more important question, or at least

551
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:27,360
the bigger profile question, is is
there a role for Killian Hayes on the

552
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,079
the extension eligible Killian Hayes on this
team right now? He's a fever dream

553
00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:32,519
for Like, I don't know,
it felt like there was Maybe it was

554
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:35,760
only four weeks, maybe it was
eight weeks, but it felt like Killian

555
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,320
Hayes was a fever dream for kind
of an extended stretch last year. Where

556
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,719
does he fit into the if at
all in the context of this team,

557
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:47,039
so like December to January into like
I think the first part of February he

558
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:52,440
was that early on too. I
felt like I was like, yeah,

559
00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:54,599
it was. It was. It
was before the All Star break, and

560
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,559
he went from like the lead inefficient
player or the least efficient player in the

561
00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:06,679
league from a shooting perspective to like, okay from a shooting perspective, and

562
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,280
like you could see like the theory
of Killy and Hayes and like how he

563
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,800
can make sense and have a role
like in the NBA. And then you

564
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,639
know what happened, Dan, They
went to France and he had a terrible

565
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:19,760
game in France, and he came
back and he was just like not the

566
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,360
same dude. It was just like
I felt I felt bad for the kid.

567
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,960
Right, you're twenty two, Like
you're playing in front of your your

568
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:30,559
home country. You've been playing well
like up to that point, and everybody's

569
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:31,920
like, oh, Killian's gonna go
off for thirty in front of his fans,

570
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:36,320
and it's like, nam Man,
he had like six points on like

571
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:40,400
twelve shots, and it's like,
okay, never mind. If anyone would

572
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,039
like to trade for Killy and Hayes
still only twenty two, super duper available,

573
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:47,280
they've been trying to put him in
a buoy on trades to Dallas for

574
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,880
like three weeks from what I understand. Oh wow, yeah, So it

575
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,760
pays me to say this because I
was so high on Killian coming into his

576
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,519
draft year. But like he's in
a similar spot to James Wiseman, where

577
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:04,639
like, if you want to be
as competitive as you say you want to

578
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:07,880
be, he probably can't play.
You know, maybe we come into the

579
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:14,239
season and he learned how to shoot, because he can do really everything but

580
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:21,119
shoot, right. He can pass, he can, but like he's a

581
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:25,480
good If he could just put the
ball in the basket at anything approaching league

582
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,400
average efficiency, he would be like
a solid back of rotation NBA player.

583
00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:37,119
Instead, he had like an effective
field goal percentage like hovering in the high

584
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:39,840
forties for like most of the year, and like that that's really bad.

585
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,000
It doesn't It makes a lot of
sense. So yeah, I had a

586
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,440
lot of hope for Killing coming in. I think if he ever can just

587
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,000
become a better shooter, there is
still a chance he could like hang on

588
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:54,599
in the NBA before Right now,
for next season, Monty Morris should definitely

589
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:58,679
be playing over him. Alec Burke
should definitely be playing over him. There's

590
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:04,079
no pathway to a consistent rotation role
that I see right now for him.

591
00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:07,480
I don't know what they would be
looking for to get back for him,

592
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,800
but if there was a team that
had better spacing, I would be curious

593
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:15,000
if a lot of the bailout stuff
that we see from him when he gets

594
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:17,800
inside the arc might sorticipate and he
could get to the rim more than once

595
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,480
every like six years or whatever it
is at this point. And I don't

596
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,639
know if you would trust his finishing
once he gets there, but like that

597
00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:27,199
would be the other way that I
think he can function offensively is like if

598
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:30,280
he can actually find space attack it
and with rim pressure is gonna come more

599
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,280
free throws. You don't need to
be like this ideal shooter, because I

600
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,760
feel like when you watch him defend
sometimes like he feels like he really has

601
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,840
it. And so I'd be interested
if I'm a team that's bad but can

602
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,119
also roll out lineups where there's above
average shooting around him. I would just

603
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:49,480
be curious depending on the asking price
that Detroit sets, if there even is

604
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:55,039
one. If Killian played with the
level of aggression he brings defensively on offense,

605
00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:00,920
he would be a much better player. But he just he's very offensively

606
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:06,119
in a way that doesn't help him
and like definitely doesn't help his teammates.

607
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:09,920
You were miffed by this question.
I just asked what you feel about the

608
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,599
reaction of Beef Stew's extension four years
and sixty million with a club option on

609
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,440
year four. I eat from what
I saw, there was a lot of

610
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:22,440
people not within the Pistons circles.
It was, oh, sixty million dollars

611
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,400
for Isaiah Stewart, and oh,
they're so committed to just running two bigs,

612
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,159
and I'm just like, I mean, look at the other bigs that

613
00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:32,239
are involved, Like they're not committed
to the other bigs aside from during announced

614
00:42:32,679 --> 00:42:36,960
Isaiah Stewart and I've done a poor
job of this on the podcast because I

615
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,000
think we can still get sticker shock, but like, this deal is never

616
00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:43,360
going to be more than ten percent
of the salary cap, and in the

617
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,079
final year it's projected to be like
seven point nine percent of the salary cap.

618
00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:49,679
And that's that's without accounting for Oh, are they just going to do

619
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,800
the ten million, ten percent flat
raises because of the TV and Fusion money.

620
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:58,039
Can you educate maybe people who don't
follow the Pistons that are listening to

621
00:42:58,079 --> 00:43:01,320
this podcast on what Beef stew bring
the table and why you know, eight

622
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,360
percent on average of the salary cap
for Asia Stewart is not a lot at

623
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,559
all. So I was I wasn't
miffed by the question. I didn't know

624
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:15,360
what reaction you were talking about,
because there was there was a little bit

625
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,880
of like, Beef stew is the
heart and soul of this team and paying

626
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,760
him, like you mentioned, like
less than ten percent of the salary cap

627
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,679
for the future is like definitely doable, and there was a little bit of

628
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:36,039
internal Pistons fans reaction like this guy
isn't able to contribute offensively, comfortably in

629
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,840
a way that people enjoy. So
it's like, why are you paying what

630
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,320
is probably a backup center, like
above average backup center money, right,

631
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,239
And so it's like that's what That's
what I meant by, like what was

632
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,679
the reactions? Like which which part
of that are you talking about? I

633
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:59,719
remain bullish on beef stew I think
that I saw enough with the experiment of

634
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,440
him him at the four last season, enough from him as a shooter.

635
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:07,079
He had like a really hot stretch
and a really cold stretch, but he

636
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:10,800
kept taking them regardless, and I
appreciate that at least, and he did

637
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,719
enough stuff like kind of off the
dribble every once in a while someone would

638
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,199
attack a close out like a little
too aggressively, and you'd be able to

639
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,760
get downhill and make some finishes that
we were like, oh okay, Like

640
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:28,360
I didn't know he had that.
And he is also a guy that's like

641
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:31,400
way younger than you think. He's
also I think twenty two right now.

642
00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:38,679
And so when you look at the
market for like wing or like for like

643
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:45,039
big swing bigs, right, PJ. Washington wants twenty million dollars, and

644
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:47,360
like, yeah, PJ. Washington's
probably a better player than Isaiah Stewart right

645
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:51,320
now, But like, do I
want to pay PJ at Washington twenty million

646
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,000
dollars? Like no, no,
I don't. It's like, so instead

647
00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:57,760
will I pay? And Grant Williams
got what like three for fifty seven,

648
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,239
okay, four fifty three from Dallas, And like, Grant Williams is a

649
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:08,880
much better shooter than Stewart, but
I think Stewart holds up a little bit

650
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:14,000
better defensively. Williams regressed a little
bit in that area last year for the

651
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,639
for the Celtics. He's like he's
he's way more switchable, but it's sort

652
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:22,079
of just like he's got the spirit
but looks really confused at times where like

653
00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:24,119
on the switches. And so yeah, I would agree, And like Beef

654
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:28,039
stew is more of the like if
you want him to like you. If

655
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:30,360
you're gonna play any of these guys
at the five for Spurts, you play

656
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,320
Beef stew as opposed to like Grant
Williams just as a rebound or is a

657
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,599
rim de turrent type guy for sure. And if you play stew at the

658
00:45:37,639 --> 00:45:40,719
five, now you can switch everything, right, because you feel you feel

659
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:46,599
fine with him against guards like on
an island, Right, maybe the rebounding

660
00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:50,679
behind him might be a little iffy, but like you're you're fine with those

661
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:52,519
matchups most of the time, and
so like, yeah, I'm going at

662
00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:55,599
the four might be a little rough
on that they're rebounding front. Yeah,

663
00:45:57,159 --> 00:46:01,559
but but yeah, I think the
Stew number was fine. I think the

664
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:06,480
length of the extension was fine.
They have a team option on the final

665
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:08,960
year, right, yeah, which
is just like that's even that's ultimate for

666
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,320
the team, un ultimate flexibility,
and like at that point it's we I

667
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,159
think, well, I think will
be numb to like these salaries at that

668
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:19,559
point, where's be like, yeah, why wouldn't you pick up that fifteen

669
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:23,519
million dollars player team option on Beef
Stew. Yeah. And the other thing

670
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:29,159
is like you can't look Beef Stew's
agents in the eye and give him less

671
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:31,719
than Marvin Bagley, right, Like
you just gave Bagley twelve million, and

672
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:36,440
like I think Marvin Bagley had stretches
last year. I was like, oh,

673
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,079
okay, like he I could see
it, but like Bagley is not

674
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:43,480
a part of the team's future in
the way that Stewart is. So you

675
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:46,800
can't like just hand him twelve million
and be like are you cool with this?

676
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:53,519
Because he's better. So so,
yeah, stew is a subtly important

677
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:59,840
piece for the just God to say, he's like under the radar mission critical

678
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:01,440
to it seems like how they want
to set up the front corp. Because

679
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,039
you did mention that he was continuing
to take threes and he shot like fifty

680
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:07,480
percent on drives last year, so
that's good. But you go through the

681
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,280
cold stretch and it's like, all
right, he was taking four open threes

682
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,239
a game after the All Star break, but he shot them at like a

683
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,480
twenty seven percent clip, and so
it's like, that's not If that happens

684
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:20,679
again, there are some like existential
questions that the Pistons have to start asking

685
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,679
about the makeup of this roster.
Yeah, and that the what you said

686
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:28,320
to is like they were butt naked
open threes, right, Like teams were

687
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,920
not playing him as a guy who
could shoot, and when he had hot

688
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,559
stretching, he was shooting like forty
four you know, forty five percent on

689
00:47:36,599 --> 00:47:40,000
those. The theory like really worked
right, like you understood it, and

690
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,639
when he was shooting, you know
twenty nine percent on them, it didn't

691
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,320
so and then we talked about the
two big lines a little bit earlier,

692
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,400
how he's the only like he's the
swing big that makes the two big lineups

693
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,119
work. And it does seem like
the Troy Weaver has talked a lot about

694
00:47:55,119 --> 00:48:00,400
how much he loves bigs and so
it seems like he will use any optunity

695
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,639
he can get to play to get
the team in a position to where they

696
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:07,440
can play multiple bigs, and so
like that might be a little bit of

697
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:09,639
tension between him and Monty Williams.
We'll see how that plays out. But

698
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,880
like Stewart is really the key to
making any of those two big lineups work,

699
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,039
which is another important part of like
how this team is going to do

700
00:48:16,079 --> 00:48:21,440
from a wins and losses perspective this
season. I'd set you what I thought

701
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,400
were at least two pointless questions about
who plays a bigger role. Hopefully at

702
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:28,239
least one of them was interesting.
You already answered one, Monty Morris over

703
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,840
Killy and Hayes without question. Rosman
sadly, is it a debate between Joe

704
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,960
Harris or Alec Burks just sort of
looking at do you want Berks at the

705
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,199
three, Harris can at least kind
of sort of play the three. So

706
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:44,320
maybe you can answer this question for
me, Dan, is Joe Harris cooked

707
00:48:44,519 --> 00:48:49,679
Like I thought Joe Harris was cooked? So I viewed that transaction as purely

708
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,880
financial. I didn't and don't expect
Harris to really play a part in the

709
00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:00,840
rotation this season because he looked done
to me last season. Do you think,

710
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,519
like two years after the big ankle
thing, like there's a chance he

711
00:49:02,519 --> 00:49:08,840
can actually play. I believe in
the shooting and this team still needs shooting,

712
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:14,320
and I think he's definitely not moving
like he was. But I think

713
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:15,800
you could get to a point where
he was always kind of sturdy enough on

714
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,239
defense where it was, oh,
he doesn't suck, and you might be

715
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,280
able to get away with all right, Joe Harris, you're four and so,

716
00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:28,039
And I just look at because what
Alec Burks does best in by the

717
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:30,960
way, Alc Burks was like we
did like an early podcast on like six

718
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,400
minut of a Year Candidates Leston,
like Alc Burks was there, Like that's

719
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,639
how good Alc Burks was when he
was playing for Detroit. But I just

720
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:43,360
like Joe Harris is the better in
theory off ball shooter like peque Joe Harris,

721
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,800
Pete Joe Harris Gone. I think
that's fair, and they might just

722
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,800
view him as like a human trade
exception rather than anyone is part of this

723
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,559
team. But I just look at
like, right, well, you have

724
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:53,840
Jay and Ivy, you have Kake
Cunningham. I guess you're completely out on

725
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,199
Killy and Hayes, and you're not
going to test out or Starr Thompson's sort

726
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:01,360
of on ball creation as much.
There's like there's room then to just be

727
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,480
like, Okay, Alec Burks,
like do what some of the stuff you

728
00:50:04,519 --> 00:50:07,800
do best. But I thought that
that was the toughest one for me,

729
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,519
but you pretty you answered it pretty
definitively, So now I'm thinking it wasn't

730
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:13,559
a good one. No, It's
I mean, I think Burks was so

731
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:22,000
good last season that and Harris Harris's
injury recovery just makes me think that,

732
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,199
like I I view Harris Moore as
like the human trade exception. Yeah,

733
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:30,280
but Burks is really good though,
and it feels a little weird to just

734
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,719
like take him for granted, right, like you're you. You asked like

735
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,960
a little bit later on about like
are we gonna trade any of these vets?

736
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:38,880
And it's like yeah, maybe.
It was also like they could have

737
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,320
traded Burks last year and they decided
not to, and then they shut him

738
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,800
down and everything like he was.
He was legit useful for them, and

739
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:51,159
you always if you're trying to be
competitive, you could always use a guy

740
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:55,119
like Alec Burk's around. Right.
I was surprised you're answered to Marvin Bagley

741
00:50:55,159 --> 00:51:05,519
or James Wiseman. So Bagley Wiseman
made badly look half decent on defense,

742
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:15,079
like to give people a frame of
reference, right, And there were times

743
00:51:15,199 --> 00:51:20,400
last season so badly he got hurt
in preseason, and then he came back

744
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,000
and then he like tweaked something again, and then he came back a second

745
00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:27,119
time, and like that second time
he came back, he was actually like

746
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:34,320
legitimately okay in his role of like
backup energy big right, I think freed

747
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:39,360
from the mental load of you were
the number two overall pick, you have

748
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,639
to produce for him for us?
He was. He was always effective offensively,

749
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,360
always a guy who's able to put
points up on the board and grab

750
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:58,039
rebounds, and he made strides defensively
that left me like encouraged like would is

751
00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:02,039
badly like my ideal back five for
this team. No, do I think

752
00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:07,199
he's the best option for backup five
for this team for this season? Yeah?

753
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,159
I do. I do. It
still kind of sucks that they weren't

754
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:14,079
able to get like a team option
on the last year of that deal though

755
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,280
he's got That must have been one
of the reasons why I skewered them for

756
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,800
their off season last year. So
I did not see the theory and still

757
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:25,000
don't quite frankly, of Marvin Bagley, Yeah, he's he's a nice rim

758
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:30,079
runner and he's like the He's like
the big man version of Alec Burks,

759
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:35,519
only it hurts that when your Biggs
camp lay defense like Alec Burks doesn't play

760
00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:38,119
defense. You had kind of already
touched upon this. A lot of teams

761
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:40,440
are gonna be calling about the vets
that they have, and you would mentioned

762
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,960
Monte Morris his home. They could
have traded Burks or even boy On Bodanovitch

763
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,440
last year and didn't. Is this
team kind of at the point A lot

764
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,880
of this is just so record dependent. But are they almost at the point

765
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,519
where it's even if they're not where
they want to be. Is getting a

766
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:59,320
late first or something really worth maybe
giving up the chance to bring some of

767
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,800
these guys back and still have them
in your program, and then some of

768
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,760
them might be worth more. You
know, look at Mante Morris might be

769
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,599
worth a little bit more on a
longer term deal than if he's an expiring

770
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:10,800
contract. Yeah, so the thing
is really like boy On right, we

771
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,800
have heard reportedly multiple times that they're
asking price for boy On Is through the

772
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:22,760
roof, right, and that is
partially because boy On Is He had a

773
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:28,199
really good season offensively last season.
He also is probably the best shooter on

774
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,599
the roster, and so like if
you replace it, if you need to

775
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:35,880
replace boy On, like, you're
gonna need some really good shooting pieces to

776
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,280
fill that gap. But his timeline
definitely does not like align with the rest

777
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,320
of the team's timeline. So I
do think if someone was willing to give

778
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:49,480
them like a real first, not
like a like top twenty five protected twenty

779
00:53:49,519 --> 00:53:52,519
twenty eight first, the Warriors first
that the Wizards got for Jordan Pool doesn't

780
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:58,440
do thirty top twenty protective. I
think if someone was willing to give them,

781
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,559
like legit something for wy On,
like, they could have him,

782
00:54:00,599 --> 00:54:07,000
but I think other teams are kind
of blanching at giving a thirty four year

783
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,760
old guy like a first for somebody
who's thirty four, right, you know,

784
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:15,519
maybe maybe you see teams like get
a little bit closer, get a

785
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:19,079
little bit more ansty towards the trade
deadline. Next season, it's going to

786
00:54:19,119 --> 00:54:22,519
be suicidally competitive in the West,
and so I could see somebody being like,

787
00:54:22,519 --> 00:54:27,760
okay, like let's let's let's just
give them like a lottery protective first

788
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,880
in twenty twenty five. And I
call it Burks. I don't think Burks

789
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,960
is worth a first. It might
be better just just let Burks kind of

790
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,639
played out. And Monty is really
interesting. I am a big Monty Morris

791
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:43,599
fan. Quick story. Fans seemed
to hate him, really, I know,

792
00:54:43,639 --> 00:54:45,039
he kind of only has like the
one cadence and like you might get

793
00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:49,440
annoyed it just like how much he's
snaked and pulling up from mid range.

794
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,880
But I couldn't believe how much Wizards
fans just seemed to dislike him. That's

795
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:58,280
so odd to me. I've always
loved that, Like Monty was a guy

796
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,960
who I was up near at the
top of the leaderboard, and like assisted

797
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:08,159
turnover ratio. I think that having
a guard on the roster who can show

798
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:14,559
the young guards the value of not
turning the ball over all the time will

799
00:55:14,599 --> 00:55:21,320
be really important. Somebody pulled a
clip of like Monty Williams from three years

800
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,360
ago talking about how important like having
veteran guards around, like was I believe

801
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:29,119
he was, Like he was talking
about like at the time he was talking

802
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,800
about Ricky Rubio for that Phoenix team
and there like first year, but like

803
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:36,840
you could definitely see how it would
apply similarly to a Monty Morris type.

804
00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:38,679
And like on a personal note,
like back when I was at an actual

805
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:44,079
factual sports journalist, I watched Monty
Morris and winn State championship at the Breslin

806
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:45,719
Center, and like that was a
cool moment for me and I was able

807
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,679
to be like, Okay, yeah, that guy's an NBA player, So

808
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:52,920
I always have a little bit of
an affection for Monty in general, I

809
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:57,360
think too, and maybe I'm underestimating
the improvement or steadiness that we could see

810
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,159
from Kaide and Jay and Iva shooters, but especially if you don't think Joe

811
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:05,960
Harris has it or is it's just
a human trade. Exception of this team.

812
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,159
I just view Monty Morris, Alc
Burson, Bowian mcdonovitch as they just

813
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:15,719
need the spacing, because I think
spacing is among the most important things to

814
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:21,159
helping streamline the development of younger guys
who you want to see on the ball,

815
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,480
just to sort of simplify the space
that they have to work within the

816
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:29,800
half court where they can get to
the basket easier, or defenses are paying

817
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:34,639
attention to other guys that they have
an easier time being able to make decisions

818
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:37,880
on the ball. Yeah, Monty
Morris is going to play a really big

819
00:56:38,119 --> 00:56:43,400
role for this team in my mind, and that his ability to play that

820
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:46,760
role well, I think will contribute
to the Pistons possibly like wanting him to

821
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:52,039
return af after the season. Are
you ready for the cookie cutter portion.

822
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,559
Let's maybe it's all cookie cutter,
but this is certainly cookie cutter. What's

823
00:56:55,599 --> 00:57:00,639
the top ten rotation look like for
this team at full strength? I even

824
00:57:00,639 --> 00:57:05,280
had a hard time assembling. I
don't feel confident anything I wrote about this

825
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,159
team other than I think Kay Jay
and Ivy and Jail durn start and then

826
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:13,199
that's where my confidence level just plummeted. So I think it's it's Kaye Jaden

827
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,880
Boyan, Stu Duran in the starting
lineup. I think you got that right.

828
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:22,119
And I think it's Monty Burke's a
sar question mark, question mark,

829
00:57:22,199 --> 00:57:27,760
question mark, Marvin Bagley, like
that that is probably your best about It's

830
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,400
like, maybe maybe that question mark
is Joe Harris small Ball four, like

831
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:35,079
we talked about a little bit earlier. Maybe that question mark is Isaiah Livers,

832
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:37,320
a guy we haven't talked a lot
about, didn't talk about a lot

833
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:42,199
last year, but on this podcast, you and I did a segment on

834
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:45,400
Isaiah Livers. I posted it on
YouTube. Actually the team, the team

835
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:50,079
loves him and he gets hurt all
the time, which is like kind of

836
00:57:50,079 --> 00:57:54,000
his thing. But but when he's
healthy and is playing well, gives them

837
00:57:54,039 --> 00:57:59,800
like a real legit like three and
D option with size. Maybe that question

838
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,800
mark question Marcus James Wiseman. And
I'm very sad, but I think those

839
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:07,000
are like your nine guys, right, And then like we talked about,

840
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:12,119
like maybe Killian's in there, Maybe
Marcus Sassar's in there, and you're playing

841
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:16,599
three guards at a time, Maybe
James Wiseman's in there. Yeah, So

842
00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:21,840
I think this team has a pretty
solid like nine man corps. And then

843
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,000
we'll see about that tenth guy.
If you just say, by the end

844
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:28,000
of the season, who's playing a
bigger role on this team, Between Wiseman,

845
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,320
Killian Hayes, who would you pick
just by the end of the year,

846
00:58:34,079 --> 00:58:39,639
I will I will say Killian because
it's easier for me to believe that

847
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:45,079
Killian spent an off season learning how
to shoot than it is for me to

848
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:47,480
believe that James Wiseman spent an off
season relearning how to play the game of

849
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:54,360
basketball. This will to some extent
we match up dependent. But what do

850
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:59,880
you think should be their most used
closing five? Is it just their star

851
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:02,760
five for you? So shout out
to James that Woods the third at the

852
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:07,159
Athletic he did like a whole lineup
piece a couple of weeks ago. And

853
00:59:07,559 --> 00:59:12,199
it's basically more or less. It's
like, if the Pistons ever have a

854
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,079
lead in the clutch, I think
a sar Thompson will be on the floor

855
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:21,840
right. They will need his defense, his rebounding ability, his ability to

856
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,199
just make stuff happen on both ends
of the floor. I think they will

857
00:59:24,239 --> 00:59:30,639
really prioritize that. So I think
it'll be something like Kade Ivy a Sar

858
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:36,000
Stu Duran will be the closing crunch
time lineup if they have a lead.

859
00:59:36,679 --> 00:59:37,960
If they don't have a lead,
they're trying to get back in the game.

860
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:43,599
I think you'll see more offense,
like slanted more towards offense. So

861
00:59:43,639 --> 00:59:47,039
I think you see something like Cade
Ivy Burke's Boy on Duran. Right,

862
00:59:47,239 --> 00:59:52,800
it was like Cade, a bunch
of shooters in one big right. That

863
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:58,360
would make sense. Is there are
there any weirdo lineups that you absolutely want

864
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,840
to see them try? I love
the question every season, Dan, thank

865
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:05,400
you so much for this. The
weirdo lineup I want to see is Kade

866
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:08,880
Livers Asar Boy on Stewart. It's
like, if Stewart shoots a Sar is

867
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:14,960
your only non shooter. Nobody on
that lineup is under six six and you

868
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:19,079
have and you have like enough defense
to like float for a four minute stretch

869
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:22,119
like during the third quarter, and
I'd like, I think that lineup would

870
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:27,719
be really funky and really fun A
mine was kind of similar. I want

871
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:30,039
to see Kade a Sar Stewart.
I love Durham, but it's just I

872
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:32,960
need the shooting around Kade and a
SAR and then just give me, like

873
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:37,039
let's go hyper small and we're just
gonna throw Alec Burks and Monte Morris out

874
01:00:37,039 --> 01:00:39,559
there just because like, you know, those guys are hashtag shooters and I

875
01:00:39,679 --> 01:00:45,000
might trust I'm not gonna lie almost
every player, maybe with the exception of

876
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:46,760
like Monte Morris is just a rebounder
over boy On at that point, I

877
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:51,719
know, Boyon's like the more accomplished
score. Just give me that I want

878
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,519
to see, and I want to
see Kade, but I really just want

879
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:55,800
to say, like what wouldes sar
Thomason look like if you were just playing

880
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,760
with four shooters, and like that's
kind of that's your path to getting there

881
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,079
without me leaving Kade out of the
equation. Yeah, you're you're like playing

882
01:01:02,079 --> 01:01:05,639
a SAR on the dunker spot,
right and being like, hey, like

883
01:01:05,679 --> 01:01:07,119
go make some stuff happen if we
miss, right, he'd be like,

884
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:10,440
sure, yes, coach, because
that's the type of dude to Saris,

885
01:01:10,519 --> 01:01:14,480
right. And it's also just sort
of like, I mean, I wouldn't

886
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,800
think that'd be a great defensive lineup, but like Kade has good size,

887
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,960
a Sar is good, and Isaiah
Stewart's good, it's like it could be

888
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,760
worse. Like it could be worse. So I don't think that would be

889
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:27,239
one. I'd be shocked. Yours
feels more realistic. I'd be shocked if

890
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:31,039
they if they even tried mine,
I can absolutely create a worse lineup and

891
01:01:31,039 --> 01:01:37,039
than both of our lives. Uh, their current win total is set at

892
01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:40,440
twenty eight point five. Would you
go the over the under on that?

893
01:01:40,519 --> 01:01:44,519
And where do you see them lining
up in the larger context of the East.

894
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:49,400
So it is entirely possible that they
win like ten more games than they

895
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,920
did last year and there's still like
a bottom five team in the league.

896
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:58,440
I think they're better. They're going
to be better than Washington wants. Washington

897
01:01:59,159 --> 01:02:07,320
trades Kyle, which is gonna happen
by Orlando got better, Indianapolis got better,

898
01:02:07,159 --> 01:02:13,920
Charlotte got Miles Bridges back and is
adding Brandon Miller. I think that

899
01:02:14,039 --> 01:02:16,440
probably makes them a little bit better
than the Word last season. Plus LaMelo

900
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,639
should be healthy. Assuming Lamel's health
in the entire season, like they will

901
01:02:20,639 --> 01:02:22,840
be better than the Word last year. So in that case, like you're

902
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:29,639
hoping for like Toronto and Brooklyn to
implode a little bit, but that's not

903
01:02:29,719 --> 01:02:32,679
like I don't think I think Toronto
will be worse, but like not worse

904
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,000
enough to where they'll be bottom five
in the league. Brooklyn and so like

905
01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:44,000
maybe Chicago, maybe like everything falls
apart in Chicago, like we've all been

906
01:02:44,039 --> 01:02:49,719
expecting for the last two and a
half seasons. Season of all time too.

907
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:55,639
Yeah, so I don't I don't
think they make the play in tournament,

908
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,000
but I think they're definitely like make
strides in terms of a win's along

909
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:07,320
this perspective, I think it's realistic
to expect them to win around like twenty

910
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:14,039
five twenty seven wins. So I
would say under, but the optimist in

911
01:03:14,119 --> 01:03:19,000
me hopes they win like thirty thirty
three games, and that's like the max

912
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:22,000
out expect I do think that could
be the ceiling on them, and I

913
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,480
feel weird. I'd go under as
well, And I feel weird saying this

914
01:03:23,519 --> 01:03:27,519
about a team whose off season I
just applauded. But when you're dealing with

915
01:03:27,559 --> 01:03:30,519
so many developmental projects and the fact
that if you're not there, even if

916
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:34,440
you're not selling at the trade deadline, like certain guys aren't gonna play,

917
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:37,840
you're gonna try out certain things again
and I can't name. If I had

918
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,960
to pick, I'd say Charlotte is
the team in the East they're most likely

919
01:03:42,039 --> 01:03:45,639
to be better than. So Charlotte
was like their defense, they put it

920
01:03:45,639 --> 01:03:50,039
together towards the end of last year
and Steve Cliffords, Yeah, so out

921
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:52,679
with the Wizards, Yeah, that's
a team I'd feel like they should be

922
01:03:52,679 --> 01:03:55,239
better than where it's like Washington.
Will I totally forget about the Wizards that

923
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,440
blanked on them for a minute.
So there's like i'd feel if you set

924
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,239
the over under on one point five
teams, they'd be better than in the

925
01:04:02,239 --> 01:04:05,480
East. Like I still struggle to
say because of how you mentioned they improved

926
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,639
Orlando, I wasn't super high in
their off season. They just have a

927
01:04:09,639 --> 01:04:12,679
lot of guys that you like and
could get better. I will say,

928
01:04:12,719 --> 01:04:15,760
like there feels like real combustibility potential
in Orlando where it's that team just might

929
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,639
not have enough spacing, like if
you think play Anthony Black a Ton and

930
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:24,480
you don't get a ton of development
from Pala Bank, Caro and that that

931
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:28,000
area. But I think the Pistons
were gonna end up being like thirteenth or

932
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,000
fourteenth, And I think that's okay, still based off what this roster looks

933
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:35,079
like and what the aims appear to
be right now. If they assembled this

934
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:39,800
team and there was this mandata like
you need to be like in the race

935
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,920
for ten, then there's then there's
a real problem. I wish I could

936
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,280
remember who tweeted this, but somebody
was like, if they had the season

937
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:50,880
Orlando had last year, right,
they win thirty odd games, get close

938
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:54,559
to the play in but don't make
it, and get the number six overall

939
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:57,840
pick, Like that's a win,
Like that would be a good season for

940
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:00,920
this team moving forward. Last thing, I'll say, last year, the

941
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:04,480
over under was like twenty nine and
a half and we were begging people to

942
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:08,400
take the under, and like this
year, like I would just stay away

943
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,679
from the over under entirely. Twenty
eight point Five's tough because it's like,

944
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,639
there's a lot to like about this
team, but there's also so many question

945
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:20,840
marks that I think when you can't
guarantee X number of them are answered in

946
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:25,000
the affirmative that you I don't know
how you would even bet the under,

947
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,239
but it might just be one of
those stay away numbers. And look,

948
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,480
Vegas is really good at this where
it's like, oh, it's like,

949
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,159
why can't this be like five or
like three wins Lowers, like this is

950
01:05:32,159 --> 01:05:36,199
two on the money? Yeah,
use whatever money you were gonna put on

951
01:05:36,239 --> 01:05:41,880
the Pistons under and put on the
Houston's under. Oh that's that's pisy.

952
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,239
I don't even know what Houston's number
is. Just bet the under they are.

953
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:50,480
I actually have it because I'm recording
the Rockets look Ahead. I think

954
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:54,639
later today to date that part this
part of the podcast. But I think

955
01:05:54,639 --> 01:06:00,360
they were thirty three point five Oh
yeah under under way under. Yeah,

956
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:04,280
I'm double checking. They are at
thirty one point five excuse me, still

957
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:08,760
under, but that's closer. I
might agree with you. There is this

958
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,280
we can rename it the Isaiah Livers
section. But is there anyone or anything

959
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,000
else I didn't ask about that you
think needs to be discussed. Yeah.

960
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:17,320
I only brought up Isaiah Livers once
during this whole like hour long thing,

961
01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:20,639
but over under on that was five
and a half of the podcast, so

962
01:06:20,679 --> 01:06:26,840
you missed it. Livers is really
good if he stays healthy. He gives

963
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,039
them wing defense and shooting that they
desperately need. Right, So we talked

964
01:06:31,039 --> 01:06:34,519
about like how they can't trade boy
On because if you traded boy On,

965
01:06:34,679 --> 01:06:39,159
you would need to replace like the
forty percent shooting on the wing. Livers

966
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:43,000
shot forty two percent from three in
his rookie year. He shot over forty

967
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,639
percent from three all four years or
was he in college? Yeah, all

968
01:06:45,639 --> 01:06:49,760
four years of college at Michigan that
he was there. He's got like thirty

969
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:54,000
six percent from three this last season, but he was injured for some of

970
01:06:54,039 --> 01:06:59,679
that. Right, Like if if
we just if there's just like a random

971
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,360
three percent shooter from three hanging out
on the Pistons bench, like they should

972
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,199
probably play that guy. So like, yeah, I think I think there's

973
01:07:06,199 --> 01:07:11,000
a real chance Livers like factors into
the rotation equation before the end of the

974
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:16,320
season. Las, this one was
fantastic, informative and entertaining as hell as

975
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,920
always. Are you able to tell
our listeners where where they can find you

976
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:23,840
in any work that you're doing at
the moment. Dan, thank you so

977
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:27,800
much for having me. I always
appreciate this. You always bring such levity

978
01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:31,760
to my terrible, Terrible team.
It's much appreciated. Your readers and listeners

979
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,920
can follow me on Twitter, not
x Twitter. Just do the thing where

980
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:42,400
you like relabel it on your icons
on your iPhones at last chance. That's

981
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,960
at la z C h A n
C. I'm not on Blue Sky,

982
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:49,320
i am not on Maceodon. If
Twitter dies, I will be dead.

983
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,000
You will just never hear from me
again. And I'm okay with that.

984
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,960
I respect it. I need to
be, I need to be. I'm

985
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,800
more offline than ever, but I
need to be even more offline, so

986
01:08:00,119 --> 01:08:02,920
I respect it. Yeah. Great
as always. Last can't say enough good

987
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,880
things about you, and rest assured
I will be pestering you again in the

988
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:08,159
future. I dare word