What is crack lacking, fellow thermonuclear a effort, I m Dad Valley coming
at you without my certified Tigulus co host Grant Hudes. But we continued with
the onset of our two twenty three, twenty twenty four NBA team look aheads,
not outlooks or previews, because these are fancy smash here and there their
look aheads, whatever that means. I'm so excited as usual to be joined
by Lazarus Jackson, associated with many things over with the Detroit bad Boys.
Follow him on I refused to say, X, I won't even change a
little follow him on Twitter at last chance. That's at lazh a n ze.
He's a great basketball mind. He does. He one promotes this podcast,
which were very thankful for and sometimes he listen to it, which is
even more humbling when you someone you respect listens to your podcast. So always
left picking his brain about as you may have guessed the Detroit Pistons. But
the most important question we will ask last how the heck are you doing?
I'm doing great, Dan, thank you once again for having me. When
you were like this is year five of us doing this, I was like,
wow, Mike, my mind is kind of blown. Also, I
want to shout out the discord as Twitter has transformed into x and done some
other stuff. Just having another source of basketball related discussion points your discord,
the Hardwoodknocks Discord has been valuable for me. So shout out to shout out
to you and that. But yeah, we're we're doing great man. As
you can see, I'm coming to you from like a Romcom cabin somewhere in
the Upper Peninsula, and I'm ready to talk about the upcoming twenty twenty twenty
four Detroit Pistons. Yeah, I hope anyone was watching on YouTube appreciates lot
you're you're there. I think you're filming, helping with a live action of
trolls. I believe commissioned by the one and only chance. I'm assuming exactly.
Just I'm one of the like many many underpaid animators. Uh, probably
a bad thing to say. During the strike, I know there was like
some exceptions to whatever. We support the writers and animators and everyone put the
studios. Basically that's where right. So the basic question I have to start
with, and I'm actually I'm sorry, it's what are your general thoughts impressions
takeaway from the Pistons offseason. But I will preface it by saying, you
wrote you always. I appreciate how thorough you always like you go in and
you you respond to all the outline topics, which I love. But I
did notice when I was looking through it, and You're not the only one
that said this. People were shocked that we were complimentary on this podcast with
the Pistons off season. Some were shocked because apparently, and I don't remember
this, we haven't done regrade yet, we like have viscerated them last year.
I don't even I don't remember what is time. But I'm shocked that
so many people are shocked that we enjoyed the Pistons offseason. But but where
did you land on it? So yeah, I was. I wasn't shocked,
but I was definitely surprised. You're you and Grants rationale made sense,
and I agreed with the rationale. However, like normally, you expect more
from a team that just won seventeen games and a front office that's going into
year four of a regime that has won seventeen, twenty three and twenty games
over the last three seasons. And so I think Pistons fans, myself included
just expected something a little bit more, a bigger sense of urgency than what
we got. There's a lot of reliance on internal development, which is not
the worst plan considering the assemblage of like young talent that they've put together.
However, it seems like they're still falling behind in terms of like where their
young core would rank and in terms of like where they're going to finish this
season in terms of wins and losses for this yeas. Normally a front office
that hasn't had the success that this front office has had would do like something
in terms of personnel to make you feel like they were like really trying to
win games this season. It feels like there their biggest acquisition was Monty Williams,
who were going to talk about relatively quickly. But in terms of like
personnel, they're really just like returning hopefully a fully healthy Kaide Cunningham and hoping
that all their young guys get better, and like that's that's not the worst
plan, but you would have liked to see, I don't know, an
addition on the wing right another like three and D guy. I know they
were obviously like linked to Cam Johnson. You don't want to play the restrictive
free agency game. I understand that very well. So I think PRISTMS fans
were just hoping for like a little bit more than what they got. There's
you you pointed out in the question too, and the and the and the
write up is like rolling over the flexibility next season is not a bad thing.
But also Pistons fans have been burned by free agency before, and so
there's not a lot of confidence that they're going to be able to turn the
forty five million dollars they have in cap space next season into somebody that's like
truly going to help them win like instantly, like elevate them like to another
like ten plus fifteen plus wins. Right. I think I might have been
more critical of the off season if maybe we went through an entire year of
kid that not getting injured less season, so like you just don't have this
is basically his sophomore campaign. Now, yeah, it's like, so you
don't have the information necessary. And I respect because I read it as and
I think this sort of leaks into the Maddi Williams conversation that the front office,
which when you point out there in year four, just like wow,
like man try Riever's been here for a minute that they have the latitude like,
hey, we don't need to rush this. And I think I actually
think teams need to be more aggressive in going after restricted free agents if you
don't have other like you know, would the Joe Harris trade has still been
available if you tried to poach Cam Johnson from the Nets. That's a fair
question, but like you could have still like Demni Morris trade doesn't seem like
it would have gone everywhere, Like you could have waited the amount of time
for the Nets to match an offer sheet if you wanted to inflate Cam Johnson
or if you wanted to be the team. And I'm still angry about this,
not Pistons specific, but how did no one make the Lakers pay more
for Austin Reeves with a poison pill? And so I get that frustration,
But again it just comes down to me like, well, what other moves
out there? And if you knew you weren't getting Cam, I think a
lot of people nationally for him, doesn't, why would they help the Nets
keep Cam Johnson? It was like because the Nets were always gonna keep Cam
Johnson. And so I totally understand that. I just looking at the options
that might have been out there, like did you punt on the ongoing PJ
Washington sweepstakes or something? I mean, did you sit out Austin Reeves like
I mentioned, that's that's I think that's a fair critique, but just knowing
what was out there, And again, I can't get past Kaye playing in
only twelve games. I want to see more about how this roster coalaces before
I think that they need to make the bigger personnel swing. That's fair,
that's fair. Where did What did you think of the Monty Williams Higher?
Not just in terms of fit and any insight into how you think this team
is run, but just oh, they made it so he couldn't say no
because it sounded like he tried to say no, and they were aggressive enough,
aggressive enough that he ended up not being able to say no. So
the Higher was the best thing they did this offseason by like a mile.
Like it. You have to remember before Monty Williams was even like fired,
the names we were hearing in the Pistons coaching surf were all first time head
coaches and like Charles Lee, Kevin Allie, and Gerard Collins, and so
I was like, I would have had so much more unused about this upcoming
season if not only they had not done much in terms of like changing the
roster personnel, but also we were going into like a first time head coach
who we like didn't have a good sense of what they were going to bring
from like an offensive war defensive identity. Right, So breaking the bank for
Monny Williams, who has a pre existing relationship with Troy Weaver super important on
that front. A guy who has already done what I think the Pistons want
to do in terms of taking a talented team that had hadn't had a lot
of success to that next level is definitely like really appealing a guy who did
it by modernizing the offense around two star guards. It's like we kind of
have those, and so like, yeah, Monty was definitely a perfect fit
in terms of situation and for this team. It's not my money. The
contract reset the coaching market, I'm I'm pleased with that. Like, honestly,
I think coach isn't count against the salary cap. You talked about this
a little bit in the in the Central Division off season thing, but it
was like, yeah, it's like, it's not my money and you need
a good coach, so it's like, just go get it. I will
say, though, like the stories we got about the how the Pistons coaching
search was going before Monty Williams was available, we're not very encouraging. It
sounded like there was a a lot of internal discussion about what to do from
a coaching perspective between the GM and other members of the front office, which
is not great. You would like more alignment than I think the Pistons were
showing. I do think what's interesting about it, and I agree with everything
you said there is there's almost a disconnect between what we just talked about with
their off season and what their aims ended up being. And then, oh,
you spent this much on a veteran head coach, which might imply that
you're looking to make not just the jump. Oh okay, we go from
seventeen wins, like seventeen wins, we win ten more games. Because the
baseline was so low, it would infer you would think normally that no,
like this is going to be like more of an accelerated process, but the
roster kind of says something different. So do you worry about that sort of
disconnect between Monty Williams what he in theory could represent and that financial commitment versus
what this team is actually rolling out on the floor. No, because part
of the financial commitment is dollars, but the other part of the financial commitment
is years. Right. I believe he signed a six year deal, and
so it was I felt he was nine. The way. It was just
like, oh, it's for eternity. It's like, he's probably going to
be there longer than the front office, right, and if there's if there's
any front office changes, and so I was like, if he's going to
be here for the long haul, they don't feel as much of a need
to press the accelerator, right, And so in my mind those kind of
go hand in hand. But at the same time, it would it would
have been nice to see them portray themselves as what they portray them or put
them selves in a position from a personnel perspective as to what they're saying like
outwardly, which is like, we would like to be more competitive. I
was like, okay, well if you'd like It's like from a coaching perspective,
like, yes, I agree, you've done You've done things that make
me agree that you want to be more competitive from a roster perspective less.
So I do wonder, now that you mentioned it, what the length of
Monty's contract says about the latitude and like job security of Troy Reaver at this
point, because like that's a really long contract to say, you know,
things don't go well in year one or year two of that contract, you're
really gonna get rid of Troy Reaver when Monty Williams has let's say three or
four guarantee years left on his contract. So I will say, like they
hired Dwayne Casey in a transition period in terms of a front office, right,
like Stan was the GM man the coach, they fired him, They
bring in Dwayne, don't really hire a GM like Ed Stefanski was like brought
in to lead the search and then kind of decided like I should run the
team for a little bit. And so Tom Gore's is not a phrase to
he. I think they prefer coaching continuity, right if they can have it,
And so like I if something happened, I like, I don't think
this is going to be the case, but like if they win like twenty
three and twenty three games, the next two years and like the front office
gets fired, I think they would still let money like coach out the majority
of that contract. If he wants to write like I don't know, maybe
he wants to do something else. At that point, they'll have the money
to do something else. I think. I actually think the best thing they
did, even though it was a no brainer, was drafted Starr Thompson.
I'm glad you think this was a no brainer because it was not a no
brainer to a lot of people, which probably means that it wasn't just because
I'm like a million feet away from it. So if there was other moves
or ideas on the table, maybe trading down. I respect them going after
someone who feels a need, but maybe isn't the perfect functional fit. I
believe in the jumper he ended up higher than Amen Thompson on on my big
board for what it's worth, which is absolutely nothing, and he just get
early impressions of his game or insider thoughts on how prominently he will be used
as a rookie. They love the sar. I love the star. Everybody
loves a star after Las Vegas. I don't think he starts right away,
but I also don't think he gets lost in the shuffle of the rotation.
They have a lot of guys who could play, but after what he showed
in Vegas, I think they'd make space for him to play. He might
already be their best permitter defender. He showed enough basketball instinct basketball feel to
where even if the shot isn't where you would like it to be in year
one, I still think he can make contributions offensively in the half court and
when they get out in transition, he's a terror. So like, you
hope they're able to make that happen offensively like the I recently did a podcast
with Amaris and Kof and Bryce Simon over at the Free Pistons Pulse, and
they asked, like, do you think this is this is like before the
expectations like really set in, Like do you think this is the season to
get a star like fifteen p and R, you know, initiating pick and
roll possessions a game just so you can lay that groundwork. And my answer
was like not, not really, Like I don't think you hope that that
eventually becomes part of his game, but I don't expect that out of the
gate, and I don't want to force feed him those reps if he's not
ready for it either. And I but I also don't think that, like
I don't think he'll ever be Jalen Brown, right, Like, I don't
ever think he'll be like a even like a secondary initiator type of guy.
But I do think he'll be a really really effective player for this team from
day one. I think he's a guy who, like he just fills in
the cracks of like whatever a team like needs offensively and defensively. And I
don't know if you've read any of like the glowing features that have come out
about the Thompson twins about like how like they eat, sleep and breathe nothing
but basketball, because like that stuff makes you feel confident that they'll figure out
ways to be contributors at the absolute least. How do you feel about his
jumper, which I think was that that and the passing felt like it was
the bigger And you mentioned that with the P and R stuff from looking at
it in And again, I don't watch these guys when they're actually playing in
college, like it's all cramming before the draft, But even in summer league,
there's like a it's quick enough that I'm like, he feels comfortable enough
taking it, and I think there's even been just glowing. I feel like
I read something that said he's already just like you use the terms eat,
sleep, and breathe, Like he's doing that with his jump shot development,
and I just like compared to like kind of the slower load time on Amend's
jumper. Maybe that's not the baseline I should be judging off, but like,
I just believe in it. Like maybe it's never something that happens off
the dribble, but I just believe that he's going to be a you know,
a lee average shooter off the catch, not maybe from day one obviously,
yeah, definitely not from day one, But I think I think he
eventually gets to like league average league averages. So like I don't know,
we're thinking about league average being like thirty five percent, but league average is
starting to creep up to like thirty six, thirty seven percent as well,
it's thirty eight something if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, And so I do
think eventually he gets to that level as a catch and shoot guy, not
so much as an off the triple guy. I would hope that's that's a
hope not an expectation, right, But I will say what I do expect
is that even if he if he hits not he gets a slightly lower level
as a shooter. I expect him to be a guy who uses his athleticism
to eat up space and causes problems for defenses, even without the ability to
necessarily like space the floor. As much as you'd like those those guys,
both both the Thompson twins, seems like they will be doing, willing to
do whatever it takes to contribute to winning basketball, right, and so I
have no doubt that, like they, he will make that happen. I
was going through our outlook from last year and I basically didn't have to change
the wording of this Gig Cunningham question because we barely saw him. What are
you just watching for with him heading into two year three? And I think
a lot of focus has been on the shooting. But I'm starting to wonder,
and this leads into the SR. Thompson conversation a little bit more,
just do they have the spacing for him to even try to generate any rim
pressure? Do you trust him to have that speed on on ball to do
that? Is that just not a concern for you, just what are you
watching most most closely for as he goes into year three. I am watching
for the three point percentage first because I think that will force if you force
teams to not be able to go under, that will alleviate a lot of
spacing concerns, so teams feel like they have to chase him overpicks. That
helps a lot in terms of spacing. That gets you into like rear contests.
He's so much bigger than the guys who will be guarding him most of
the time. That gets you into the biggs coming downhill and being able to
make plays for himself, and some of the biggs can make plays for themselves
out of that. It opens up, like you know, weak side help
rotations like and we no kid can pass and spray passes to shooters as well.
So I look at the three point percentage and the ability to make those
threes off the dribble because I think that opens up the rest of his game.
And I feel like I said, this is exact same thing last year,
but I'm not on undred percent sure. But Dan, where did Kay
go in your twenty three under twenty three draft? This is a good chance
to own up to being a coward. So he was on my big board,
and I think I mentioned that in the pod for people who only watch
the short. We obviously didn't have time to throw in there. He was
seven or on board, and I still waited until ten to pick him,
and it was I threw this in the outlook too. It's just like,
are we just he was out of sight, out of mind and now we're
just way too low on him to where I think the debate we had just
in the moment, I don't even remember who went one through nine. I
remember like the top three. I think it was just like, oh,
should we take Chet home going over Kake Cunningham? And in retrospects, it's
just like no, Like we've seen Kake Cunningham play NBA basketball, and I
think Jet Homer's gonna be really good. But there's just something about I know,
the percentages don't line up, and people like to point out just how
low his true shooting percentage have been. And I'm gonna say this with Jay
and Ivy Tooth, the aesthetics of his game just make so much sense.
And I know that's so vague, but you just watch it and you're like,
no, this fucking guy can play like there is just a field there,
And I think he's gonna end up being like, you know, if
you told me this year he hits like thirty six thirty seven percent of a
step back threes and be like, I'm not surprised. Yeah, yeah,
last year you could see him do a lot of damage in the mid range
prior to the injury. And I think, and other people agree with me,
that the injury, the shin injury, contributed a lot to the problems
he had shooting. His shot was already kind of flat, and so if
your shin hurts and you can't elevate the way you'd like to, it's like
that probably has an impact on the way you're able to shoot. He didn't
make excuses, but kid's not the type of guy to make excuses for why
his SHOT's not falling. So I think both with the rehab on the lower
body injury, the work he's been able to do during the rehab in terms
of like fixing it so the shot looks a little bit better mechanically, I'm
expecting big time improvements from him as a shooter this upcoming season. We will
see, but yeah, there's no way he should have been under chet Holgan.
Come on, come on, dad, Hey he wasn't. There was
a debate. So Jay n Ivy is I came away from his rookie season
mostly impressed, and I think they're different players. But one of the biggest
criticisms I have of Jalen Green is it's like, dude, there's another number
on the dial other than eleven. And Jay n Ivy like was able to
vary up his cade more as he was going through his rookie year. And
I think even his thirty seven plus percent shooting on catch and shoot threes,
I think he probably benefited from like a later season boone. But that's encouraging.
What should we be watching for with him in year two? And because
we don't have the sample and I know I asked you this question last year
as well, what do you kind of make of the potential fit between him
and Kade, especially now that, as you mentioned, he won't be starting,
but our star Thompson is going to factor into the fold as well.
Yeah, so I was legitimately impressed with the in season improvement we saw Jade
and Ivy make last season. I think the early part of this season will
be really important for both Kade and Jaden. There were times early in the
season last year where it looked like Kade was working really hard to get Jayden
going in a way that looked like Kaide was sacrificing his own offense to do.
And I think it's going to be really important for them to be able
to find a not a like your turn, my turn balance, but like
a who who can do what when balance for both of those guys, because
I do think there's a lot of room for both of them to be able
to share and make plays off of each other. Kaide, I think will
be there's a there's room for Kade to move off the ball and for Jaden
to initiate to give defenses a little bit of a different look. There's definitely,
like Monty ran, a lot of like Spain pick and roll and like
guard guard off guard ball screening for guards in Phoenix. I think there's a
lot of room for the ability to create advantages for Jaden doing stuff like that.
And this might not be in the plans right now just because they have
a billion guards on the roster, but there's opportunity for Jaden to you know,
play without Kade at times and like bench lineups and make a lot of
hay out of those, just like decimating small slower guards who like can't start
right. But the biggest thing I'm looking for from Jaden is actually on defense.
He started off the year just like atrocious on defense, absolute tire fire,
and he ended the year not that bad. I am looking to see
if those improvements a maintain and be continue like over the course of another season.
But like Jaden's only six four, you can't be as bad a defender
as he was for like the first thirty games of his career and be that
height and like play in the playoffs, right, I'm looking to make sure
that he continues to work on the defensive part of his game like he was.
His inability to like navigate screens was just like super apparent. It was
bad, but he got a lot better at it. This next questioned for
it. Thank thank you for waiting, because this is the thing that gets
me in trouble with Pistons fans. So I appreciate you like waiting until this
twenty five minute mark for me to get in trouble, because I think you
got in trouble last year because of what your thoughts on Jay and Ivy.
I believe you're getting in trouble before the draft, and you got in trouble
after you did this podcast too. I believe the dude, the two big
stuff, is it maybe overblown at this point. I went back and looked
at the numbers. I never want to see Jalen durn and James Watson played
together again. Is that something that's going to factor in here? Or are
we gonna be maybe pleasantly surprised with Oh, look at how like many boy
Bugdanovich at the four lineups are rolled out this season. So I hope to
god we don't see anymore James Wiseman Jaleen during minutes. Just like defensive rating
together. By the way, it was sub ninety six, and their defensive
rating together was I think like one hundred and twenty two. And I will
say, I don't know if I mentioned this already. I mentioned it in
the outline. The podcast you recorded with Ben immediately after the trade happened was
just one of the best, not just Pistons related things. Let's do would
just breakdowns of like fits that I can just it was so like you skewered
it, but it was like so sensible. I absolutely it was one of
my favorite podcasts of the year. I had to mention that, thank you,
thank you. We're going to talk about James Wiseman later. Yeah,
so we'll talk about the two bigs instead. So I think that it's two
bigs, but it's two non Stewart bigs that were the real issue. Stewart
hurt his shoulder if I remember Isaiah Stewart. Be Stewart hurt his shoulder towards
the end of last season, if I remember correctly, and so like didn't
play like the last like twenty five or so games. Plus they were current
lose games anyway, and he showed enough strides as a like nominal four,
being able to put the ball on the floor, being able to shoot the
ball a little bit for a small stretch, and the team has a lot
of confidence in his ability to shoot the ball moving forward. That I feel
their confidence makes me like, Okay, I'm willing to wait and see on
how they integrate two big lineups that include Isaiah Stewart. It's when you have
two big line ups that are like Jaylen durn and Marvin Bagley, or like
Marvin Backley and James Wiseman, or Jaylendrn and James those two big lineups like
don't make any sense, and I really really hope they move away from them.
The other thing is that, like everything we've seen from Monty, Williams
says that like he won't play two bigs if he feels like it's not the
right move, right, Like there were some like Sarch eight minutes at time
for Phoenix back when like Sarch was a thing for them, but like mostly
they used Sarich as a backup center and even like he was a little bit
of a floor spacer and like a printer guy for them. But like even
then, like you know, we weren't seeing like Jacques Landell and DeAndre and
like play together, right, Like Monty prefers to go with guys on the
wing, and so I do think if they can help it, they will
play like one big lineups most of the time, especially off the bench.
But yeah, the two big lines where mess last season. A lot of
it was I think because of the desire to accommodate James Wiseman and like give
James Wiseman the run that he hadn't gotten a chance to show at that time
in the NBA. And that will be I think less of a concern for
the team moving forward this season, and I would think, and you the
stuff you pointed out about Monny's a great I didn't even think of that.
Just having Boyan Bardanovitch making the trade for Joe Harris, having US star Thompson,
it made me think, Okay, like, no, they're not going
to be It's just okay, Marvin Bagley's on this roster. It's just it.
And like James Wiseman, not that he's breaking case for emergency, we
will talk about him, but it's not. Jalen Duran is the guy.
And so it's just I look at the makeup of this roster and I'm like,
they're not really heavily invested in and like, even if they wanted to,
the Isaiah Stewart extension isn't a ton of money where it's if it's not
working, like you move around like those pieces in the rotation. So I'm
hopeful and even more hopefully now if you're listening to you talk about Monny Williams,
that we will see the two big lineups where Stewart isn't one of the
two bigs fired into the sun almost never to return unless they're trying to lose
games again at the end of the season. Speaking of Jalen during, its
say, and I forgot about the Beef stew injury too, and so it
was like part of it, and Bagley was injury for a bunch of last
year. It's like maybe they were playing those two out of I won't call
it necessity, which is like, yeah, what what what the fuck out
three are we gonna do? Uh? Speaking of Jalen durn, I am
one so bad at evaluating biggs before they're in the NBA. It's not even
like it's probably so funny at this point, but it's also hopeless. I
am smitten by Jalen during and it was just like the stuff from what I
saw of the Pistons, Like as the season went on, it's like,
oh, it felt like he was connecting on his screens more and oh,
that movement away from the ball was so much more fluid. This is just
not like that is not yes, he can do that stuff, but that
is not Jaalen during only it's just like, oh, did he just kind
of bust out a post move? Was that like a little hook shot?
Was that like a flip shot? He's It's like, what is the ceiling
on this kid? And what are you the cookie cutter aspect of this?
What are you just watching for as he goes into year two. I love
Jalen Durn. I am also smitten with Jalen Durn. Paul George loves Jalen
Durn. I don't know if you heard that clip from the PG podcast about
him talking about Durren and going up against him. No confession. I don't
listen to a kind of player podcast because I find them to be very superficial
and uninformative. I've been told JJ Redix is good. I've heard like and
I've listened to his. I've heard some of Draymond's, which can be that's
a lot of propaganda. I've been told that I need to rectify the I
haven't listened to Paul George's podcast ever. I've been told I need to rectify
that the quick aside. The thing with the Player podcast is the guests need
to be like pretty good, right, because otherwise the I love a lot
of the players, but the level of like questioning you're going to get from
them is not going to be like exceptional most of right, So you need
a good guest to make it work. But no, PG was just isn't
like I'm not going to pretend I listened to the whole podcast, But PG
was really complimentary of Jalen durn one pod after they played. He's just like,
holy shit, this dude's a truck and he's nineteen and he's killing us.
But yeah, I was really happy that Darren was also part of the
select team. He also played really well in the footage of the scrimmages we
got. He put brandon Ingram like completely under the basket on like an up
and under moove. That was really nice. And you talked about his ability
to like make flip shots and hook shots around the room. The thing that
I really appreciate that I think you don't get to see all the time,
but like Shay shows flashes of is his ability as a passer. Right you
could do a little bit of like the him passing out of the elbow right
there were there was a moment. There was a moment, and they had
a home game against Denver, like super late in the season where Denver like
slept walk through the first like three and a half quarters before Yokich was like,
wait, why are we losing these guys and just like completely erratic at
them. But like there was a moment where like Duran was like hitting Wiseman
on some high lows and you were like like sure, yeah, that's cool,
Like I can see the what like Troy Weaver is like trying to accomplish
here. There was a really nice play he made out of the short role
as a passer, like kind of earlier in the season to beat Charlotte,
he hits Sadeq in the corner in a like clutch situation that was like,
oh okay, Like despite the fact that he's nineteen, he's still like not
panicking in the clutch and like taking the time to like hit the open guy
because like he was, he was this close to like committing a charge and
instead like he just gets the ball out and makes the right play. That
was one thing that like Anthony Edwards mentioned in his interviews, like about Duran
at like the scrimmages at the Select team, like at the practices they had
before FIBA. He was like, Yeah, Jalen Durning like thinks the game
a lot better than I think he gets credit for. And that's one thing
that like I think people need to know I would tell people that they need
to know about Jalen Durning is he thinks the game a lot better than it
looks like he would because he looks like he's carved out a granite. Right.
What I am looking for him this season though, is defense. Right,
he makes some like highlight level blocks, but he is nineteen and liking
a young big, he stills to do a better job of like learning where
to be defensively, putting hands and passing lanes, not trying to block every
single thing that comes along his line of sight. He had had a thirty
and seventeen game against San Antonio. You're like, whoa like thirty and seventeen
from a nineteen year old, that's crazy, But Zach Collins went for twenty
nine and eleven and a lot of it was on Jaylen Duran Is Like that
stuff can't happen if you want to be competitive, and so he really needs
to make strides defensively. The other thing I'll say is that like his effort
and motor has like been a little bit of a question. Nobody questions that,
Like he doesn't always want to play hard, but he does kind of
do the young guy thing of like taking himself out of transition defense, like
chasing offensive rebounds. The coaching staff like infamously like brought him off the bench
towards the end of the season in favor of Wiseman, which is where I
think you see a lot of the national confusion because it's like, oh,
they were starting Wiseman over during last season, like maybe they're super prioritizing Wiseman,
and it's like no, Like the coaches were like openly saying like,
yeah, Durn's not conditioned enough for our taste, so like that's why he's
coming off the bench. And you would see moments in time where he'd be
like huffing and puffing a little to get back in transition, and it's like,
Okay, you'd like to see him improve a little bit on that end
as well, but yeah, like everybody's super enamored with Jalen Duran. He
is the big that they're going to prioritize moving forward. Like I know,
Stu just got paid. Stu is part of the future. During is part
of the future. The other guys are not necessarily part of the future.
That should like should be made clear to everybody. The other guy who's not
part of the future, And I feel really bad saying this because he's still
only twenty two and he's that limited action. If there was a does the
least with the most award, I feel like James Wiseman would win it.
Yeah. What were your impressions of him during his so far short stint in
Detroit? So I did not have a positive impression of James Wiseman going into
the trade. You mentioned the podcast episode Ben and I did about what James
Wiseman would and would not bring to the Pistons. That mostly turned out correct,
I think, But watching him for the twenty five or so games,
we got to see him like I understood what they were going for. Right.
There are moments where he does something at his size and with his coordination
and his like fluidity athletically then make you go like, oh my gosh,
like I totally get it. At the same time, if you want to
win games, you just can't play him, right. He's like, yes,
he's twenty two, but he still has no clue where to be on
defense and did not like make any strides in that area over the last part
of the season. He's easily fooled by like drivers, like you give him
like a hesitation dribble and like you can get an open fifteen footer, Like
it just is what it is. The other thing and the thing that so
damaging. There's this guy who used to work for Detroit bad Boy Steve Henson.
He still does like Pistons analysis on the side now. He had this
like twenty thread twenty tweet thread about how like Wiseman was like the single most
selfish basketball player he had ever seen, and it was really hard to refute
any of it. Right, It's like Wiseman wouldn't make contact on screens,
just like slip into space and like demand the ball like he was Joel Embiid
And it's like, dude, go set a mfing screen for Jade and Ivy
and stop asking for the ball. It's like it should have been a big
clue when he like wouldn't when you when you won't set screens for Steph Curry,
like it makes a lot of sense that you wouldn't set screens for Jade,
right right, And so yeah, it's just he wants to do his
own thing offensively and that he can't be featured offensively in the way he would
prefer to be. And he isn't good enough defensively to accentuate that fact.
Right, So in my mind, like Wiseman is completely unplayable if they want
to be as competitive as they say they want to be this season, I
hold no like personal animus towards James Wiseman, right, I just think he
can't play. He probably opens the season though as their third big, right
you have Darren and stew and then it's exactly is the backup five? Yeah?
I know the bare minimum about Marcus Sasser, and I wasn't like this
gets too nit picky, but I was like, oh, number thirty one
and two seconds for Marcus Sasser. Can you can you sell me on the
theory of Marcus sassor what the idea is with him, because from what I
do know and what I have seen, I'm just not like, oh,
is that like that was the move? I just again, it's a small
move, but I know so little about it. Yeah, they like Sassor
a lot. I kind of like Sassor. I was surprised they felt like
they had to trade up to get him, but apparently like Boston was gonna
get him at twenty seven or something, So I get it right, Now,
the team has a lot of guards, so it's tough to see where
he plays in the rotation, right Like, But that with that said,
Monty Morris and Alec Burks are both going to be free agents at the end
of the season, so there's definitely gonna be an opportunity for Sasser to be
a part of this team in the not too just the future. And like
think of Sassor's like Javon Carter, with like a little bit more shot making,
right, like a really hilacious on ball defender, a little bit undersized,
but like great hands. But he was a really good shooter at Houston,
both like off the catch and like being able to create create his own
shot. And the big provement he made from his junior to his senior year
was being able to finish around the basket before he could get to the basket,
but not finish. In his senior year, he got a lot finish.
He got a lot better finishing around the basket. And so like,
I definitely think there's a role for Sasser on this team moving forward, but
it's probably not going to appear in this upcoming season. But I like him
and the team seems liking to probably the more important question, or at least
the bigger profile question, is is there a role for Killian Hayes on the
the extension eligible Killian Hayes on this team right now? He's a fever dream
for Like, I don't know, it felt like there was Maybe it was
only four weeks, maybe it was eight weeks, but it felt like Killian
Hayes was a fever dream for kind of an extended stretch last year. Where
does he fit into the if at all in the context of this team,
so like December to January into like I think the first part of February he
was that early on too. I felt like I was like, yeah,
it was. It was. It was before the All Star break, and
he went from like the lead inefficient player or the least efficient player in the
league from a shooting perspective to like, okay from a shooting perspective, and
like you could see like the theory of Killy and Hayes and like how he
can make sense and have a role like in the NBA. And then you
know what happened, Dan, They went to France and he had a terrible
game in France, and he came back and he was just like not the
same dude. It was just like I felt I felt bad for the kid.
Right, you're twenty two, Like you're playing in front of your your
home country. You've been playing well like up to that point, and everybody's
like, oh, Killian's gonna go off for thirty in front of his fans,
and it's like, nam Man, he had like six points on like
twelve shots, and it's like, okay, never mind. If anyone would
like to trade for Killy and Hayes still only twenty two, super duper available,
they've been trying to put him in a buoy on trades to Dallas for
like three weeks from what I understand. Oh wow, yeah, So it
pays me to say this because I was so high on Killian coming into his
draft year. But like he's in a similar spot to James Wiseman, where
like, if you want to be as competitive as you say you want to
be, he probably can't play. You know, maybe we come into the
season and he learned how to shoot, because he can do really everything but
shoot, right. He can pass, he can, but like he's a
good If he could just put the ball in the basket at anything approaching league
average efficiency, he would be like a solid back of rotation NBA player.
Instead, he had like an effective field goal percentage like hovering in the high
forties for like most of the year, and like that that's really bad.
It doesn't It makes a lot of sense. So yeah, I had a
lot of hope for Killing coming in. I think if he ever can just
become a better shooter, there is still a chance he could like hang on
in the NBA before Right now, for next season, Monty Morris should definitely
be playing over him. Alec Burke should definitely be playing over him. There's
no pathway to a consistent rotation role that I see right now for him.
I don't know what they would be looking for to get back for him,
but if there was a team that had better spacing, I would be curious
if a lot of the bailout stuff that we see from him when he gets
inside the arc might sorticipate and he could get to the rim more than once
every like six years or whatever it is at this point. And I don't
know if you would trust his finishing once he gets there, but like that
would be the other way that I think he can function offensively is like if
he can actually find space attack it and with rim pressure is gonna come more
free throws. You don't need to be like this ideal shooter, because I
feel like when you watch him defend sometimes like he feels like he really has
it. And so I'd be interested if I'm a team that's bad but can
also roll out lineups where there's above average shooting around him. I would just
be curious depending on the asking price that Detroit sets, if there even is
one. If Killian played with the level of aggression he brings defensively on offense,
he would be a much better player. But he just he's very offensively
in a way that doesn't help him and like definitely doesn't help his teammates.
You were miffed by this question. I just asked what you feel about the
reaction of Beef Stew's extension four years and sixty million with a club option on
year four. I eat from what I saw, there was a lot of
people not within the Pistons circles. It was, oh, sixty million dollars
for Isaiah Stewart, and oh, they're so committed to just running two bigs,
and I'm just like, I mean, look at the other bigs that
are involved, Like they're not committed to the other bigs aside from during announced
Isaiah Stewart and I've done a poor job of this on the podcast because I
think we can still get sticker shock, but like, this deal is never
going to be more than ten percent of the salary cap, and in the
final year it's projected to be like seven point nine percent of the salary cap.
And that's that's without accounting for Oh, are they just going to do
the ten million, ten percent flat raises because of the TV and Fusion money.
Can you educate maybe people who don't follow the Pistons that are listening to
this podcast on what Beef stew bring the table and why you know, eight
percent on average of the salary cap for Asia Stewart is not a lot at
all. So I was I wasn't miffed by the question. I didn't know
what reaction you were talking about, because there was there was a little bit
of like, Beef stew is the heart and soul of this team and paying
him, like you mentioned, like less than ten percent of the salary cap
for the future is like definitely doable, and there was a little bit of
internal Pistons fans reaction like this guy isn't able to contribute offensively, comfortably in
a way that people enjoy. So it's like, why are you paying what
is probably a backup center, like above average backup center money, right,
And so it's like that's what That's what I meant by, like what was
the reactions? Like which which part of that are you talking about? I
remain bullish on beef stew I think that I saw enough with the experiment of
him him at the four last season, enough from him as a shooter.
He had like a really hot stretch and a really cold stretch, but he
kept taking them regardless, and I appreciate that at least, and he did
enough stuff like kind of off the dribble every once in a while someone would
attack a close out like a little too aggressively, and you'd be able to
get downhill and make some finishes that we were like, oh okay, Like
I didn't know he had that. And he is also a guy that's like
way younger than you think. He's also I think twenty two right now.
And so when you look at the market for like wing or like for like
big swing bigs, right, PJ. Washington wants twenty million dollars, and
like, yeah, PJ. Washington's probably a better player than Isaiah Stewart right
now, But like, do I want to pay PJ at Washington twenty million
dollars? Like no, no, I don't. It's like, so instead
will I pay? And Grant Williams got what like three for fifty seven,
okay, four fifty three from Dallas, And like, Grant Williams is a
much better shooter than Stewart, but I think Stewart holds up a little bit
better defensively. Williams regressed a little bit in that area last year for the
for the Celtics. He's like he's he's way more switchable, but it's sort
of just like he's got the spirit but looks really confused at times where like
on the switches. And so yeah, I would agree, And like Beef
stew is more of the like if you want him to like you. If
you're gonna play any of these guys at the five for Spurts, you play
Beef stew as opposed to like Grant Williams just as a rebound or is a
rim de turrent type guy for sure. And if you play stew at the
five, now you can switch everything, right, because you feel you feel
fine with him against guards like on an island, Right, maybe the rebounding
behind him might be a little iffy, but like you're you're fine with those
matchups most of the time, and so like, yeah, I'm going at
the four might be a little rough on that they're rebounding front. Yeah,
but but yeah, I think the Stew number was fine. I think the
length of the extension was fine. They have a team option on the final
year, right, yeah, which is just like that's even that's ultimate for
the team, un ultimate flexibility, and like at that point it's we I
think, well, I think will be numb to like these salaries at that
point, where's be like, yeah, why wouldn't you pick up that fifteen
million dollars player team option on Beef Stew. Yeah. And the other thing
is like you can't look Beef Stew's agents in the eye and give him less
than Marvin Bagley, right, Like you just gave Bagley twelve million, and
like I think Marvin Bagley had stretches last year. I was like, oh,
okay, like he I could see it, but like Bagley is not
a part of the team's future in the way that Stewart is. So you
can't like just hand him twelve million and be like are you cool with this?
Because he's better. So so, yeah, stew is a subtly important
piece for the just God to say, he's like under the radar mission critical
to it seems like how they want to set up the front corp. Because
you did mention that he was continuing to take threes and he shot like fifty
percent on drives last year, so that's good. But you go through the
cold stretch and it's like, all right, he was taking four open threes
a game after the All Star break, but he shot them at like a
twenty seven percent clip, and so it's like, that's not If that happens
again, there are some like existential questions that the Pistons have to start asking
about the makeup of this roster. Yeah, and that the what you said
to is like they were butt naked open threes, right, Like teams were
not playing him as a guy who could shoot, and when he had hot
stretching, he was shooting like forty four you know, forty five percent on
those. The theory like really worked right, like you understood it, and
when he was shooting, you know twenty nine percent on them, it didn't
so and then we talked about the two big lines a little bit earlier,
how he's the only like he's the swing big that makes the two big lineups
work. And it does seem like the Troy Weaver has talked a lot about
how much he loves bigs and so it seems like he will use any optunity
he can get to play to get the team in a position to where they
can play multiple bigs, and so like that might be a little bit of
tension between him and Monty Williams. We'll see how that plays out. But
like Stewart is really the key to making any of those two big lineups work,
which is another important part of like how this team is going to do
from a wins and losses perspective this season. I'd set you what I thought
were at least two pointless questions about who plays a bigger role. Hopefully at
least one of them was interesting. You already answered one, Monty Morris over
Killy and Hayes without question. Rosman sadly, is it a debate between Joe
Harris or Alec Burks just sort of looking at do you want Berks at the
three, Harris can at least kind of sort of play the three. So
maybe you can answer this question for me, Dan, is Joe Harris cooked
Like I thought Joe Harris was cooked? So I viewed that transaction as purely
financial. I didn't and don't expect Harris to really play a part in the
rotation this season because he looked done to me last season. Do you think,
like two years after the big ankle thing, like there's a chance he
can actually play. I believe in the shooting and this team still needs shooting,
and I think he's definitely not moving like he was. But I think
you could get to a point where he was always kind of sturdy enough on
defense where it was, oh, he doesn't suck, and you might be
able to get away with all right, Joe Harris, you're four and so,
And I just look at because what Alec Burks does best in by the
way, Alc Burks was like we did like an early podcast on like six
minut of a Year Candidates Leston, like Alc Burks was there, Like that's
how good Alc Burks was when he was playing for Detroit. But I just
like Joe Harris is the better in theory off ball shooter like peque Joe Harris,
Pete Joe Harris Gone. I think that's fair, and they might just
view him as like a human trade exception rather than anyone is part of this
team. But I just look at like, right, well, you have
Jay and Ivy, you have Kake Cunningham. I guess you're completely out on
Killy and Hayes, and you're not going to test out or Starr Thompson's sort
of on ball creation as much. There's like there's room then to just be
like, Okay, Alec Burks, like do what some of the stuff you
do best. But I thought that that was the toughest one for me,
but you pretty you answered it pretty definitively, So now I'm thinking it wasn't
a good one. No, It's I mean, I think Burks was so
good last season that and Harris Harris's injury recovery just makes me think that,
like I I view Harris Moore as like the human trade exception. Yeah,
but Burks is really good though, and it feels a little weird to just
like take him for granted, right, like you're you. You asked like
a little bit later on about like are we gonna trade any of these vets?
And it's like yeah, maybe. It was also like they could have
traded Burks last year and they decided not to, and then they shut him
down and everything like he was. He was legit useful for them, and
you always if you're trying to be competitive, you could always use a guy
like Alec Burk's around. Right. I was surprised you're answered to Marvin Bagley
or James Wiseman. So Bagley Wiseman made badly look half decent on defense,
like to give people a frame of reference, right, And there were times
last season so badly he got hurt in preseason, and then he came back
and then he like tweaked something again, and then he came back a second
time, and like that second time he came back, he was actually like
legitimately okay in his role of like backup energy big right, I think freed
from the mental load of you were the number two overall pick, you have
to produce for him for us? He was. He was always effective offensively,
always a guy who's able to put points up on the board and grab
rebounds, and he made strides defensively that left me like encouraged like would is
badly like my ideal back five for this team. No, do I think
he's the best option for backup five for this team for this season? Yeah?
I do. I do. It still kind of sucks that they weren't
able to get like a team option on the last year of that deal though
he's got That must have been one of the reasons why I skewered them for
their off season last year. So I did not see the theory and still
don't quite frankly, of Marvin Bagley, Yeah, he's he's a nice rim
runner and he's like the He's like the big man version of Alec Burks,
only it hurts that when your Biggs camp lay defense like Alec Burks doesn't play
defense. You had kind of already touched upon this. A lot of teams
are gonna be calling about the vets that they have, and you would mentioned
Monte Morris his home. They could have traded Burks or even boy On Bodanovitch
last year and didn't. Is this team kind of at the point A lot
of this is just so record dependent. But are they almost at the point
where it's even if they're not where they want to be. Is getting a
late first or something really worth maybe giving up the chance to bring some of
these guys back and still have them in your program, and then some of
them might be worth more. You know, look at Mante Morris might be
worth a little bit more on a longer term deal than if he's an expiring
contract. Yeah, so the thing is really like boy On right, we
have heard reportedly multiple times that they're asking price for boy On Is through the
roof, right, and that is partially because boy On Is He had a
really good season offensively last season. He also is probably the best shooter on
the roster, and so like if you replace it, if you need to
replace boy On, like, you're gonna need some really good shooting pieces to
fill that gap. But his timeline definitely does not like align with the rest
of the team's timeline. So I do think if someone was willing to give
them like a real first, not like a like top twenty five protected twenty
twenty eight first, the Warriors first that the Wizards got for Jordan Pool doesn't
do thirty top twenty protective. I think if someone was willing to give them,
like legit something for wy On, like, they could have him,
but I think other teams are kind of blanching at giving a thirty four year
old guy like a first for somebody who's thirty four, right, you know,
maybe maybe you see teams like get a little bit closer, get a
little bit more ansty towards the trade deadline. Next season, it's going to
be suicidally competitive in the West, and so I could see somebody being like,
okay, like let's let's let's just give them like a lottery protective first
in twenty twenty five. And I call it Burks. I don't think Burks
is worth a first. It might be better just just let Burks kind of
played out. And Monty is really interesting. I am a big Monty Morris
fan. Quick story. Fans seemed to hate him, really, I know,
he kind of only has like the one cadence and like you might get
annoyed it just like how much he's snaked and pulling up from mid range.
But I couldn't believe how much Wizards fans just seemed to dislike him. That's
so odd to me. I've always loved that, Like Monty was a guy
who I was up near at the top of the leaderboard, and like assisted
turnover ratio. I think that having a guard on the roster who can show
the young guards the value of not turning the ball over all the time will
be really important. Somebody pulled a clip of like Monty Williams from three years
ago talking about how important like having veteran guards around, like was I believe
he was, Like he was talking about like at the time he was talking
about Ricky Rubio for that Phoenix team and there like first year, but like
you could definitely see how it would apply similarly to a Monty Morris type.
And like on a personal note, like back when I was at an actual
factual sports journalist, I watched Monty Morris and winn State championship at the Breslin
Center, and like that was a cool moment for me and I was able
to be like, Okay, yeah, that guy's an NBA player, So
I always have a little bit of an affection for Monty in general, I
think too, and maybe I'm underestimating the improvement or steadiness that we could see
from Kaide and Jay and Iva shooters, but especially if you don't think Joe
Harris has it or is it's just a human trade. Exception of this team.
I just view Monty Morris, Alc Burson, Bowian mcdonovitch as they just
need the spacing, because I think spacing is among the most important things to
helping streamline the development of younger guys who you want to see on the ball,
just to sort of simplify the space that they have to work within the
half court where they can get to the basket easier, or defenses are paying
attention to other guys that they have an easier time being able to make decisions
on the ball. Yeah, Monty Morris is going to play a really big
role for this team in my mind, and that his ability to play that
role well, I think will contribute to the Pistons possibly like wanting him to
return af after the season. Are you ready for the cookie cutter portion.
Let's maybe it's all cookie cutter, but this is certainly cookie cutter. What's
the top ten rotation look like for this team at full strength? I even
had a hard time assembling. I don't feel confident anything I wrote about this
team other than I think Kay Jay and Ivy and Jail durn start and then
that's where my confidence level just plummeted. So I think it's it's Kaye Jaden
Boyan, Stu Duran in the starting lineup. I think you got that right.
And I think it's Monty Burke's a sar question mark, question mark,
question mark, Marvin Bagley, like that that is probably your best about It's
like, maybe maybe that question mark is Joe Harris small Ball four, like
we talked about a little bit earlier. Maybe that question mark is Isaiah Livers,
a guy we haven't talked a lot about, didn't talk about a lot
last year, but on this podcast, you and I did a segment on
Isaiah Livers. I posted it on YouTube. Actually the team, the team
loves him and he gets hurt all the time, which is like kind of
his thing. But but when he's healthy and is playing well, gives them
like a real legit like three and D option with size. Maybe that question
mark question Marcus James Wiseman. And I'm very sad, but I think those
are like your nine guys, right, And then like we talked about,
like maybe Killian's in there, Maybe Marcus Sassar's in there, and you're playing
three guards at a time, Maybe James Wiseman's in there. Yeah, So
I think this team has a pretty solid like nine man corps. And then
we'll see about that tenth guy. If you just say, by the end
of the season, who's playing a bigger role on this team, Between Wiseman,
Killian Hayes, who would you pick just by the end of the year,
I will I will say Killian because it's easier for me to believe that
Killian spent an off season learning how to shoot than it is for me to
believe that James Wiseman spent an off season relearning how to play the game of
basketball. This will to some extent we match up dependent. But what do
you think should be their most used closing five? Is it just their star
five for you? So shout out to James that Woods the third at the
Athletic he did like a whole lineup piece a couple of weeks ago. And
it's basically more or less. It's like, if the Pistons ever have a
lead in the clutch, I think a sar Thompson will be on the floor
right. They will need his defense, his rebounding ability, his ability to
just make stuff happen on both ends of the floor. I think they will
really prioritize that. So I think it'll be something like Kade Ivy a Sar
Stu Duran will be the closing crunch time lineup if they have a lead.
If they don't have a lead, they're trying to get back in the game.
I think you'll see more offense, like slanted more towards offense. So
I think you see something like Cade Ivy Burke's Boy on Duran. Right,
it was like Cade, a bunch of shooters in one big right. That
would make sense. Is there are there any weirdo lineups that you absolutely want
to see them try? I love the question every season, Dan, thank
you so much for this. The weirdo lineup I want to see is Kade
Livers Asar Boy on Stewart. It's like, if Stewart shoots a Sar is
your only non shooter. Nobody on that lineup is under six six and you
have and you have like enough defense to like float for a four minute stretch
like during the third quarter, and I'd like, I think that lineup would
be really funky and really fun A mine was kind of similar. I want
to see Kade a Sar Stewart. I love Durham, but it's just I
need the shooting around Kade and a SAR and then just give me, like
let's go hyper small and we're just gonna throw Alec Burks and Monte Morris out
there just because like, you know, those guys are hashtag shooters and I
might trust I'm not gonna lie almost every player, maybe with the exception of
like Monte Morris is just a rebounder over boy On at that point, I
know, Boyon's like the more accomplished score. Just give me that I want
to see, and I want to see Kade, but I really just want
to say, like what wouldes sar Thomason look like if you were just playing
with four shooters, and like that's kind of that's your path to getting there
without me leaving Kade out of the equation. Yeah, you're you're like playing
a SAR on the dunker spot, right and being like, hey, like
go make some stuff happen if we miss, right, he'd be like,
sure, yes, coach, because that's the type of dude to Saris,
right. And it's also just sort of like, I mean, I wouldn't
think that'd be a great defensive lineup, but like Kade has good size,
a Sar is good, and Isaiah Stewart's good, it's like it could be
worse. Like it could be worse. So I don't think that would be
one. I'd be shocked. Yours feels more realistic. I'd be shocked if
they if they even tried mine, I can absolutely create a worse lineup and
than both of our lives. Uh, their current win total is set at
twenty eight point five. Would you go the over the under on that?
And where do you see them lining up in the larger context of the East.
So it is entirely possible that they win like ten more games than they
did last year and there's still like a bottom five team in the league.
I think they're better. They're going to be better than Washington wants. Washington
trades Kyle, which is gonna happen by Orlando got better, Indianapolis got better,
Charlotte got Miles Bridges back and is adding Brandon Miller. I think that
probably makes them a little bit better than the Word last season. Plus LaMelo
should be healthy. Assuming Lamel's health in the entire season, like they will
be better than the Word last year. So in that case, like you're
hoping for like Toronto and Brooklyn to implode a little bit, but that's not
like I don't think I think Toronto will be worse, but like not worse
enough to where they'll be bottom five in the league. Brooklyn and so like
maybe Chicago, maybe like everything falls apart in Chicago, like we've all been
expecting for the last two and a half seasons. Season of all time too.
Yeah, so I don't I don't think they make the play in tournament,
but I think they're definitely like make strides in terms of a win's along
this perspective, I think it's realistic to expect them to win around like twenty
five twenty seven wins. So I would say under, but the optimist in
me hopes they win like thirty thirty three games, and that's like the max
out expect I do think that could be the ceiling on them, and I
feel weird. I'd go under as well, And I feel weird saying this
about a team whose off season I just applauded. But when you're dealing with
so many developmental projects and the fact that if you're not there, even if
you're not selling at the trade deadline, like certain guys aren't gonna play,
you're gonna try out certain things again and I can't name. If I had
to pick, I'd say Charlotte is the team in the East they're most likely
to be better than. So Charlotte was like their defense, they put it
together towards the end of last year and Steve Cliffords, Yeah, so out
with the Wizards, Yeah, that's a team I'd feel like they should be
better than where it's like Washington. Will I totally forget about the Wizards that
blanked on them for a minute. So there's like i'd feel if you set
the over under on one point five teams, they'd be better than in the
East. Like I still struggle to say because of how you mentioned they improved
Orlando, I wasn't super high in their off season. They just have a
lot of guys that you like and could get better. I will say,
like there feels like real combustibility potential in Orlando where it's that team just might
not have enough spacing, like if you think play Anthony Black a Ton and
you don't get a ton of development from Pala Bank, Caro and that that
area. But I think the Pistons were gonna end up being like thirteenth or
fourteenth, And I think that's okay, still based off what this roster looks
like and what the aims appear to be right now. If they assembled this
team and there was this mandata like you need to be like in the race
for ten, then there's then there's a real problem. I wish I could
remember who tweeted this, but somebody was like, if they had the season
Orlando had last year, right, they win thirty odd games, get close
to the play in but don't make it, and get the number six overall
pick, Like that's a win, Like that would be a good season for
this team moving forward. Last thing, I'll say, last year, the
over under was like twenty nine and a half and we were begging people to
take the under, and like this year, like I would just stay away
from the over under entirely. Twenty eight point Five's tough because it's like,
there's a lot to like about this team, but there's also so many question
marks that I think when you can't guarantee X number of them are answered in
the affirmative that you I don't know how you would even bet the under,
but it might just be one of those stay away numbers. And look,
Vegas is really good at this where it's like, oh, it's like,
why can't this be like five or like three wins Lowers, like this is
two on the money? Yeah, use whatever money you were gonna put on
the Pistons under and put on the Houston's under. Oh that's that's pisy.
I don't even know what Houston's number is. Just bet the under they are.
I actually have it because I'm recording the Rockets look Ahead. I think
later today to date that part this part of the podcast. But I think
they were thirty three point five Oh yeah under under way under. Yeah,
I'm double checking. They are at thirty one point five excuse me, still
under, but that's closer. I might agree with you. There is this
we can rename it the Isaiah Livers section. But is there anyone or anything
else I didn't ask about that you think needs to be discussed. Yeah.
I only brought up Isaiah Livers once during this whole like hour long thing,
but over under on that was five and a half of the podcast, so
you missed it. Livers is really good if he stays healthy. He gives
them wing defense and shooting that they desperately need. Right, So we talked
about like how they can't trade boy On because if you traded boy On,
you would need to replace like the forty percent shooting on the wing. Livers
shot forty two percent from three in his rookie year. He shot over forty
percent from three all four years or was he in college? Yeah, all
four years of college at Michigan that he was there. He's got like thirty
six percent from three this last season, but he was injured for some of
that. Right, Like if if we just if there's just like a random
three percent shooter from three hanging out on the Pistons bench, like they should
probably play that guy. So like, yeah, I think I think there's
a real chance Livers like factors into the rotation equation before the end of the
season. Las, this one was fantastic, informative and entertaining as hell as
always. Are you able to tell our listeners where where they can find you
in any work that you're doing at the moment. Dan, thank you so
much for having me. I always appreciate this. You always bring such levity
to my terrible, Terrible team. It's much appreciated. Your readers and listeners
can follow me on Twitter, not x Twitter. Just do the thing where
you like relabel it on your icons on your iPhones at last chance. That's
at la z C h A n C. I'm not on Blue Sky,
i am not on Maceodon. If Twitter dies, I will be dead.
You will just never hear from me again. And I'm okay with that.
I respect it. I need to be, I need to be. I'm
more offline than ever, but I need to be even more offline, so
I respect it. Yeah. Great as always. Last can't say enough good
things about you, and rest assured I will be pestering you again in the
future. I dare word