1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,400 What is krack lack In Hardwin Knocks listeners, I am damned valley coming at 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,240 you without my fit tabulous co host Adam frommel I told you all we were 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,199 going to be going seven days a week until the start of the season. 4 00:00:17,399 --> 00:00:20,239 And if you are listening to this podcast the day it's coming out, which 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,480 is a Saturday, September twenty fifth, that's probably proof that I'm not lying. 6 00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:27,480 Since we very rarely published podcasts on the weekend. We have Caitlyn Cooper 7 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,359 from Indie corn Rows on today to help school us on everything Pacers leading into 8 00:00:31,399 --> 00:00:35,719 the twenty one twenty two NBA season. Follow her on Twitter at C two 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,679 Underscore. Cooper shows us a piece up right now on five thirty eight on 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,600 Eric Gordon, the value of spacing, how defenses react to where guys are 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,759 standing, and how spacing is more than just about raw shooting percentages. It's 12 00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:51,119 a fantastic piece. Like everything You're right, so so go check that out 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,759 before we dive head first, or maybe I belly flopped into this Pacers discussion, 14 00:00:55,799 --> 00:00:58,920 who really knows. Just gonna unload some feels here very quickly, because 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,480 this is a milestone podcasts for Hardwin Knox is our five hundredth full length episode. 16 00:01:03,519 --> 00:01:07,879 We have some trailers I think like three or four of them sprinkled throughout 17 00:01:07,879 --> 00:01:11,480 our feed. This is the five hundred full length episode. We've been around 18 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,640 more than half a decade. We weren't always a multi episode podcast per week. 19 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,200 It was sometimes one a week when we really started this thing at the 20 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:22,159 beginning, five or six or seven years ago. I don't even know if 21 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:25,400 we're publishing once a week, so that number is significant to me. Just 22 00:01:25,439 --> 00:01:29,120 how long this podcast has been around. I have been pretty open, Adam 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,319 has been pretty open. This is not the biggest league wide podcast around, 24 00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:36,079 not even close. But we do have an audience and we appreciate every single 25 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:38,480 one of you, and it's a loyal audience. We might not have the 26 00:01:38,519 --> 00:01:41,799 most Twitter engagements. You're fantastic with the mailbags, by the way, in 27 00:01:41,879 --> 00:01:45,040 my dms in the mentions when I send out the solicitation sweets. That's not 28 00:01:45,079 --> 00:01:48,359 a complaint. I think it's just the reality is sometimes it can be hard 29 00:01:48,439 --> 00:01:52,560 to one. We're probably not the most active on social media begin with, 30 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:56,959 but it can be harder to engage a community where you're not covering one specific 31 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:00,120 market or team and have that built in goodwill there. We still do have 32 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:04,000 a community here, and you guys not only did you show up through the 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,920 pandemic or at the peak of the pandemic, I don't even know how to 34 00:02:07,239 --> 00:02:08,599 phrase, but when things were shut down, when the league was shut down, 35 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,879 downloads across the board for pretty much every podcast like they were hurting, 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,479 including hours, but it was not down by that much relative to where we 37 00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:20,879 were at the time. And so you guys have always showed up. You 38 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,639 show up for these single team look aheads where we're gonna go if we're talking 39 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,400 an hour about the Indiana Pacers, or if I go in ninety minutes on 40 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:31,479 the Charlotte Hornets spoiler alert, maybe for the next podcast that comes out. 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,680 The downloads are there, You guys are listening, you're engaging. I am 42 00:02:35,719 --> 00:02:38,439 forever super appreciative of it. We did have something special, I say, 43 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:42,400 planned for you for the fifth hundred episode, but it was really more of 44 00:02:42,439 --> 00:02:46,000 a vanity project at that point because it was something that I would have always 45 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,919 wanted to do Adam and I never last minute scheduling conflicted. Basically, we're 46 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,800 supposed to have it ready and just didn't. I won't tease it any more 47 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:58,240 than this because we might still go to it in the future. And I 48 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,800 did tease it at one point on Twitter a couple of weeks ago, so 49 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,919 you might have even seen it. So that's as much as I'll give away 50 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,520 about it. Doing this podcast with Kaitlyn no and I'd not tell her she 51 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,319 was going to be on the five hundredth episode, and this is not supposed 52 00:03:09,319 --> 00:03:12,879 to be some sort of a big event, but she was one of the 53 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,199 first when we actively decided that we need to bring on guests. She was 54 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,599 one of our original guests that came on, was kind enough to give us 55 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,240 so much of her time, and she has over the years, and she's 56 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,759 always been great, but she's really blown up over the past few years. 57 00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:30,199 And if you're not following her on Twitter again at C two Underscore Cooper, 58 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:31,800 I don't know what the hell you're doing with your life. But she has 59 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,039 blown up, and yet she's still nice enough to come on this podcast, 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:42,960 this rinky Dink independent you know, sub mediocre NBA podcast and talk basketball with 61 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:46,560 us two three times a year. We've only had one other guest on more 62 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:49,439 often than her at this point. She actually just broke a tie with Tara 63 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Bow and Biggs, who covers the Blazers, host of the what podcast. 64 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,879 We have a take podcast. Excuse me, that's great, check that out. 65 00:03:55,879 --> 00:04:00,360 She'll be coming on soon too. But Kaitlin, they're like every time 66 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:01,599 they come on, they sort of tie each other. But Katla's now moved 67 00:04:01,599 --> 00:04:03,520 to head of her. That's not really titled to be proud of. I 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:08,080 guess to come on this podcast so often. But my point being, and 69 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,960 it's not just and I again, I didn't tell Cayton listen to the five 70 00:04:11,039 --> 00:04:13,719 hundred episode that she was coming on for. I actually told her that I 71 00:04:13,759 --> 00:04:15,879 was moving up when I was publishing this episode. It's not supposed to be 72 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,639 special, but I'm just thankful for her and every single other guest that gives 73 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,879 us so much of their time and keeps coming back. I say, if 74 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:26,800 I ask you once, if I ask you twice, like that's fair, 75 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,399 I'm maybe have hoodwink you into coming on. If you're coming back three plus 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,600 four plus five plus times. At that point, it's a decision. And 77 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,120 I appreciate all of our guests. I appreciate all of our listeners. We 78 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,600 will continue to try and grow that's a good segue to say, hey, 79 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:43,399 subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast down on every episode ron YouTube as 80 00:04:43,439 --> 00:04:46,600 well. Once we get to one case subscribers, we will start doing YouTube 81 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,600 live sessions, more YouTube exclusives than we've done, and we have done some 82 00:04:49,879 --> 00:04:54,240 exclusives. For anyone who's not subscribed to us. There YouTube dot com search 83 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,079 hard Knox will come up. Follow us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox. But 84 00:04:58,439 --> 00:05:01,120 just wanted to take a moment to to thank everyone, from guests to listeners 85 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,800 who have rocked with us through the years who will continue rocking with us. 86 00:05:05,319 --> 00:05:08,959 This is a lot of fun and like I said, we may not be 87 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,920 the biggest league wide podcast, but we do enjoy doing this. We do 88 00:05:14,079 --> 00:05:15,800 enjoy interacting with you guys. And hey, if this is your first time 89 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,399 listening to us, because you saw that Kaitlyn Cooper, the famous Kaitlyn Cooper, 90 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,240 was on this podcast, consider giving us a permanent subscription. Downloading our 91 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,040 episode, it's checking us out just beyond this episode, rating, reviewing us 92 00:05:28,079 --> 00:05:31,439 forever you're getting your podcast. That helps a ton. Here's two five hundred 93 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,040 more episodes. I guess I don't really even know if I want to be 94 00:05:34,079 --> 00:05:36,120 around that long. I don't know if you guys want us to be around 95 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:41,959 that long, but that's enough me waxing poetic about these last seven years or 96 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,639 whatever it's been. It has, indeed, though been a beast, blast 97 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:48,560 continues to be a blast. But let's go into a deep dive on the 98 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:55,839 twenty one twenty two Indiana Pacers with none other than Indy korn Roses Kaitlyn Cooper. 99 00:05:56,439 --> 00:05:59,720 Kitlyn, thank you so much for coming back on Hardwood Knocks. I 100 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,000 don't know do we call you like mainstream Kaitlin Cooper now that you've been published 101 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,480 at five to thirty eight in addition to Indie Cornrows, whatever we're supposed to 102 00:06:06,519 --> 00:06:13,240 call you. You're fantastic and we appreciate you coming back to talk as always 103 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,480 about the Indiana Pacers, who rumor has it, will not be making a 104 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,319 head coaching firing or change. While we were recording this podcast, which should 105 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:23,680 be great. First and foremost, though, how are you doing? I'm 106 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,800 doing well, like I appreciate like I'm assuming that you contacted Kevin Pritchard before 107 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,959 we did this and just said, hey, we got a podcast going on 108 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,399 and we'd really appreciate it if you didn't make any major changes during this one 109 00:06:35,439 --> 00:06:39,639 hour session. You know I did, but he was he was too busy 110 00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:44,680 retweeting crypto propaganda onto my timeline to give me an answer. Apparently, So 111 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,920 let's cross our fingers that nothing wild happens on this podcast. I guess I 112 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,160 just sort of want to start here. Is I know you the biggest offseason 113 00:06:55,199 --> 00:06:58,480 addition or move that they made was just hiring Rick Carlisle. And we kind 114 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:00,199 of got into this during the live. It was a I don't know what 115 00:07:00,319 --> 00:07:03,720 the pockets was called, but Ricarlo wasn't higher while we were recording, but 116 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,399 nape Yorkan was fired, and we talked loosely about maybe the Pacers would go 117 00:07:08,439 --> 00:07:12,279 after Rick Carlisle. I know you've now written elements about what it'll bring to 118 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:16,079 the Pacers offense, but what is Is there anything specific that you think we 119 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,839 can expect to see from this team, whether it's just a particular way that 120 00:07:19,879 --> 00:07:23,279 their offense is going to be run, or maybe a particular player that will 121 00:07:23,279 --> 00:07:26,720 be used differently. Yeah, I mean several things. I think if you 122 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,160 look back, like just over the last two years, Nate McMillan, the 123 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:32,759 Pacers were kind of good at being vanilla like. The actions were very you 124 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,600 know, one and done. It was somewhat hitchy, and they needed to 125 00:07:35,639 --> 00:07:39,120 get more movements. So Nabe Yorkin did that to his credit. I mean, 126 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,519 they were close to the top of the league in motion. They had 127 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,560 people moving on the weak side, but it became pretty mechanical and predictable and 128 00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:47,199 somewhat of what they were doing, Like, I think there was other options 129 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,040 they could have hit, but it very much felt like a micromanaged offense. 130 00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:55,000 So I think now with Rick Carlisle, maybe you get a little bit of 131 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,399 both blended in and you get an upgrade in that way, and that he 132 00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:01,360 has some very nuance in good play calls that I think will fit various of 133 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:05,199 their players. But at the same time, I think that's what people assume 134 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,240 of him. But he also did a good job I mean in some of 135 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:11,120 its Luca like having the benefit of everything that Luca brings, but using very 136 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:15,639 simple actions at the beginning of a play to really empower playmakers and to create 137 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:16,959 small edges. I mean, I wrote a piece that people can go and 138 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,399 look at about structure. While Malcolm Brogden kind of hit on this the like 139 00:08:20,519 --> 00:08:24,439 teams that have too much structure or robotic and teams that don't have enough are 140 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:26,680 two up and down. And the Pacers were kind of both sides of that 141 00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:30,759 coin last year, So I think, like, you know, just in 142 00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:33,519 their Spain actions, they would always go and that the ball handler would be 143 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,039 coming off the left side. And when you watch the Mavericks, they a 144 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,600 lot of times those screens are flat, so like a ball handler is going 145 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:41,240 to have more options to go off either way, and then the backscreener can 146 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,519 leak out either way. So that just creates a little bit more randomness. 147 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,120 But I think from an individual player standpoint, I would like to see and 148 00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:52,919 I wrote about this with Miles Turner a year ago, that just you know, 149 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,000 the fake it till you make it thing from three, like he shot 150 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,759 more threes last year. But if you're making yourself a legitimate threat, even 151 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:03,440 if you're not hitting those at a super high clip, I think that that 152 00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:05,720 would draw a little bit more attention to him. And I actually use Perzingis 153 00:09:05,759 --> 00:09:09,720 as an example because the Mavericks were using him as a trailer in transition, 154 00:09:09,799 --> 00:09:13,399 and I think there's a psychology to that. So I think that Miles is 155 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,120 kind of one of the last starters that kind of has probably maybe some untapped 156 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,759 potential there that hasn't really been delved out if he can, you know, 157 00:09:22,159 --> 00:09:24,000 and I do think some of this is just on him, Like at a 158 00:09:24,039 --> 00:09:26,480 certain point time, you just have to make shots, Like only twenty seven 159 00:09:26,519 --> 00:09:28,440 percent of his threes were contested last year, so at a certain point in 160 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,960 time, you just have to hit those. But I think you'll still see 161 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,399 Sabonus being empowered as a playmaker. I think you'll see team ball from the 162 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,159 guard positions with both Brogden and LeVert being able to play off of each other 163 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:45,360 in downhill. So that's kind of a glossy overlook, I guess we should 164 00:09:45,399 --> 00:09:50,240 say there's And part of this is obviously because the Mavericks had Luca and he's 165 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,039 such a heliocentric player, But the MAVs were Indiana. First of all. 166 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,879 It was fourth and average possession time after Cassilvert made his debut last year that 167 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,679 was per impredictable the Maverick during that same span where twenty fifth. Do you 168 00:10:01,799 --> 00:10:05,320 expect that Carlisle is going to slow things down with this team or maybe take 169 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,960 away from their transition volume? Does that question not even matter because it's not 170 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,639 like the Pacers were this world beating offense anyway, So making those types of 171 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,440 I don't want, maybe not whole style shifts, but shifts aren't that big 172 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,200 of a deal, right, And this is going to sound contrary to the 173 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,080 entire Nate McMillan tenure because there was a lot of pressure of like, this 174 00:10:22,159 --> 00:10:24,320 team needs to play faster, and in part they did because of what their 175 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,480 shot profile was. When you're leaning on mid range shots, that's pretty boom 176 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,840 or bust, and they just needed to get more possessions in order to stay 177 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,720 ahead, Like they didn't have a very nuanced offense. Now nave Yorker did 178 00:10:35,759 --> 00:10:37,000 that, like you just mentioned, they really dialed it up, But I 179 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,799 don't think that that was completely to their advantage. In part, I think 180 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,799 he dialed up the pace because they had to outrun their own defense, but 181 00:10:43,919 --> 00:10:46,519 in so doing it impacted and made their defense worse. Like when you're taking 182 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,320 very quick shots, that's your first line of transition defense. Honestly, if 183 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,960 you're taking a quick kamakaze layup, that doesn't really have much of a chance 184 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,320 and you're just attacking for the sake of playing fast that can lead to fast 185 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,600 break scores at the other end, and then it just was creating like am 186 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,720 vicious cycle between where they were getting advantages from. So I don't think it's 187 00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:09,480 going to be a bad thing if the overall offense is functioning at a better 188 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,519 level if they're not playing, you know, as slap dash is what it 189 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:20,399 was over the last two months of the Borkan era. There's so damc dermott 190 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:24,279 left and I'm just curious as to and I guess this question is more loaded 191 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,799 until we know for sure when t J. Warren is going to come back. 192 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:28,840 But how big of a loss do you think he ends up being for 193 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:31,440 this team? Right? I think I touched on this one. This was 194 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,039 like maybe one of my only good moments from the last time I was on 195 00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:41,000 here that just how well he and Sabonis fit together. I mean, that 196 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,519 was the number one assist combo on the Pacers, and some of that was 197 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,039 due to availability, but they also, like McDermott, loves to move from 198 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,720 left to right as a shooter. That's where most of his percentage of his 199 00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:52,679 shots off screens are coming from. And Sabonis loves to work his left hand 200 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,519 and dribble handoffs. So and just like you can say, and I believe 201 00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:00,759 this, like Sabonis can develop chemistry with anyone. He's a good enough playmaker, 202 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:03,000 but not everyone is going to do what Doug McDermott does. Not everyone's 203 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,840 going to be willing to make those reads and make those cuts and be able 204 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:09,039 to set up his man on his screen to cut back door worktop locking in 205 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:13,639 various coverages. So I can't say that Sabona's had the same chemistry with Justin 206 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,720 Holiday that he had with Doug McDermott, And they're both movement shooters, so 207 00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:20,279 it is somewhat of a loaded question, Like I'll have to see what this 208 00:12:20,759 --> 00:12:22,440 Chris Duarte bring in this kind of similar role. I mean, he's going 209 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:26,120 to be kind of their main movement shooter that they have left along with Justin 210 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:31,000 So if he can offer some of that, maybe it mitigates it. But 211 00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:33,799 like as you say, like if it was a question just between which I 212 00:12:33,879 --> 00:12:37,240 mean it wasn't because McDermott got offered more money, But like money aside, 213 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,159 if you're just looking at TJ and Doug, like I think TJ is going 214 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:46,840 to give you more in the regular season and keep the offense moving, and 215 00:12:46,919 --> 00:12:48,240 he certainly has value. I mean, there's games you can point to from 216 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,679 last year that they probably would not have won without TJ McConnell. But in 217 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,919 terms of what both of them will offer you and the postseason and what that 218 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:01,480 established role already was in two man game with Sabona, I do think mcdermot's 219 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,440 going to be an underrated loss unless Chris Duarte immediately pops. Yeah, and 220 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,039 like the contracts are so different that it maybe it wasn't in either our choice, 221 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:11,559 but I would personally preferred McDermott on this team. Does that? So 222 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:15,759 do you think, then, since you mentioned him, that buzzer beater Summer 223 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,399 League buzzer beater came, Chris Duarte is going to get a chance to play 224 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:22,799 during his rookie year at this team. Yeah, it's interesting. Rick Carlisle 225 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,039 has really talked up both rookies already. I mean, he's said a lot 226 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,840 about Chris Duarte and Isaiah Jackson, and they both were impressive in Summer League. 227 00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:31,960 I don't know that I'm ready to make that leap after four Summer League 228 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,480 games, but I think I would be somewhat disappointed if Chris Duarte isn't in 229 00:13:37,519 --> 00:13:39,200 the rotation somewhere. I mean, they took him number thirteen, and I 230 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:43,000 think he fits for this offense for the reasons I just said, Like in 231 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:48,759 Rick Carlisle scheme, like the people are rarely just standing. They're gonna be 232 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:50,600 using a lot of flare screens in different ways. There's gonna be guard to 233 00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:54,399 guard screens, There's gonna be a lot of spain where you're gonna need that 234 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,559 backscreen or who can actually put tension flaring out. He's the best fit for 235 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:03,120 that in my opinion on this roster. So I think that he needs to 236 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,000 at least have a bench role when the season starts. That's my opinion. 237 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,159 But we need to infer anything about their faith or lack thereof and Goga after 238 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:16,600 they have after they got Isaiah Jackson in the draft. Man, it just 239 00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:20,399 feels like Goga stock is at an all time low, like because I mean 240 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,360 they also mentioned at the end of or when Rick Carlisle was introduced, like 241 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,559 the possibility of staggering Miles and Sabonis more. If you're staggering them more, 242 00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:31,919 there's already going to be fewer minutes at center, and you're not going to 243 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:35,120 play Goga at the four, Laz, I don't think so. They've talked 244 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,679 about using Isaiah Jackson at the four potentially, which I'm interested to see how 245 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,039 that pans out. But yeah, I don't. I don't really know exactly 246 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,919 how Goga is going to fit in other than the role he's already had, 247 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,879 which is, you know, if one of the big gets Biggs get hurt, 248 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,200 maybe he gets to play, or maybe he gets five minutes over the 249 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,000 end of the first quarter in the second quarter, and if the game's going 250 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,399 well, he might get that same stint in the third. But I think 251 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,440 it's going to be pretty hard for him to carve out a role unless they 252 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:05,879 suddenly surprised us during this podcast and trade Miles Turner de Montes Sabonis and then 253 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,679 you know, if you notice there was no direct Sabonis Turner question in the 254 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,759 outline I sent you, I'm giving us a respite. This is like the 255 00:15:13,879 --> 00:15:16,159 third or fourth year we're doing this, and it feels like it would be 256 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,279 the third or fourth year of just asking that same question. No, I 257 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,399 appreciate that, you get me. Yeah, so the other kind of I 258 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,559 guess the most notable other thing they did was adding Tory Craig, who feels 259 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,279 like a no brainer fit just defensively and kind of his run with the Suns 260 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,320 was very interesting. But you wrote about this, his offensive fit is going 261 00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:37,919 to probably be dependent on him doing different things or at least, as you 262 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,759 put I think was getting out of the way at points. So what do 263 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,639 you what do you think they need to see from him on offense? What 264 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:46,799 type of role do you expect him to play with this team? Right? 265 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,559 And I think that like the best way I could describe it. And the 266 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,759 first time I noticed this, I really wasn't thinking about Tory Craig in relation 267 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,320 with the Pacers. It was when the Nuggets played the Lakers in the Western 268 00:15:56,360 --> 00:16:00,399 Conference Finals in the bubble and they were posted yokis against switches, and it 269 00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:04,240 just felt like his rhythm was somewhat other from the rest of the Nuggets in 270 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,080 terms of when he was supposed to cut and when he wasn't, and when 271 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,799 he should have been pulling over to create space. So I liked him somewhat 272 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,799 to what Thaddius Young was for the Pacers a few years ago, and that 273 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:18,799 like everyone always talked about that as this valuable defender and having the have to 274 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,200 defend the post, but also the mobility on the perimeter, and that was 275 00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:26,480 true, but he was also good at filling the gaps in terms of manufacturing 276 00:16:26,559 --> 00:16:30,039 angles as like a secondary option along the baseline, Like he was really good 277 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,759 at finding passing lanes out of the dunker spot and Tory Craig and the Milwaukee 278 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,960 offense was being used because you know, Bud was using the dunker spot a 279 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,440 little bit more and it didn't really feel like Tory quite worked that out. 280 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,960 Like I talked to a few people that cover the Bucks and was like, 281 00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:47,799 you know, why wasn't he really getting minutes there? Like why didn't he 282 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:51,840 take off? And the overall response that I got a few people told me 283 00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:55,919 he was somewhat MOPy and that like Bud wanted to play him more. But 284 00:16:56,039 --> 00:17:00,320 then like Fanasis's all out effort was just like superseding his. So that's somewhat 285 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,359 concerning. I mean, obviously he played a pretty good role in the Western 286 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,839 Conference Finals for the Suns against Paul George, had some really nice possessions, 287 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,079 but I do think offensively, and this is part of the thing with it's 288 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,480 having Tory Craig. And they've mentioned now that like Tory Craig was signed in 289 00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,559 part because they had doubts that TJ. Warren was going to be available, 290 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,880 but that they're better equipped to weather that injury. But at the same time, 291 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,559 a lot of these guys, while they do provide elements of what TJ. 292 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,160 Warren brings, they don't provide everything that TJ. Warren brings all at 293 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,440 once. So, yeah, you're gaining Tory Craig's defense and the potential that 294 00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:37,000 he could like help at all switch lineup, but he's not going to provide 295 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:38,920 the same scoring punch. I mean, it was kind of funny when you 296 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,920 watch that the finals, how much Milwaukee just didn't care about him as a 297 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,079 shooter. It's like, oh, yeah, we know that you played for 298 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,440 us, and we're not gonna we're not going to be too concerned about that. 299 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,680 Yeah, and he was hitting three right time and Phoenix and just teams 300 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,839 even though they just didn't care, like they just weren't weren't on him. 301 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,799 Maybe he'll be happier. And indeed, because I'm assuming free agency last year 302 00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:03,559 didn't plan out pan out as he expected. He ended up on a minimum 303 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:06,200 deal and the Nuggets din't even want him back, so perhaps now that he's 304 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,279 on like a you know, two year, ten million dollar deal, he 305 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,000 can I'd be pretty happy about that. But t J. Warren, his 306 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,119 name has coming up like half a dozen times already. Everything with him seems 307 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,039 very undefined about that return from other than the fact that he's not ready after 308 00:18:19,079 --> 00:18:23,400 suffering the stress fractured his left foot, any sense of when they should hope 309 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,240 for him to be ready, and then just how looking at the long term 310 00:18:26,279 --> 00:18:30,680 outlook at least through this season for the Pacers, how important is he to 311 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:37,119 optimizing the best version that this team can actually be? Right? I mean, 312 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:40,680 I think it is. I think that the injury update being released three 313 00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:45,480 weeks before training camp even starts as somewhat ominously on itself that they were willing 314 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:48,079 to get that far out in front of it. And I know that they've 315 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:49,960 had a few quotes where they're like, you know, he's doing rehab. 316 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,960 We don't know what that means in the short term. It sounds like they're 317 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,759 confident that he's going to be back and that he's going to be okay, 318 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,640 but they don't have any idea when that's going to be. I personally will 319 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,680 be surprised, like if he's ready when the season starts, because if he 320 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,480 isn't even going to be producing and training camps. So and what I just 321 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:11,519 mentioned that they said that they signed Tory Craig in anticipation that TJ might be 322 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:15,319 out. That leads me to think that they're expecting that he's going to be 323 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:21,440 missing regular season games. But I don't know that for fact. But yeah, 324 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,519 I mean they have Tory Craig. They can guard wings, which was 325 00:19:25,599 --> 00:19:27,319 not an option that they had last year. They were like all combo guards 326 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:32,640 and centers, and then they were giving up season highs to Ogeanaobi and Bridges 327 00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:36,359 and Harrison Barnes and a whole string of other wings, not to mention just 328 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,559 like you know, having no one that can even try to catch the first 329 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,480 step of somebody like Janis and try to handle that type of a matchup. 330 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,640 They also have Justin who can play some four and play the three. They 331 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,440 have Kelan Morton if I if they feel good about Isaiah Jackson, he can 332 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,480 play some four, and they can downsize a little bit there. So like 333 00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:56,559 they have all these different guys they can throw out there, but each thing 334 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,319 that you get with one of them, you're losing one of t J. 335 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,240 Warren's s. So for me, like the fact that he's the full package 336 00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:07,079 deal and can be you know, a play finisher obviously as a bucket geter 337 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:14,160 you know insert smoke coming out of nose emoji, and then it can also 338 00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:17,039 be a two way player. That was I mean justin Holiday mentioned this an 339 00:20:17,079 --> 00:20:18,519 exit interviews, and I agree with him, Like TJ. Warren is probably 340 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,000 their best on ball defender the prior season under McMillan that he just didn't have 341 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:29,480 him, So I think he's pretty critical for their potential playoff success if they're 342 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,200 going to get back in there and potentially be, you know, competing in 343 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,319 the first round. The way he defended, or at least the types of 344 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,240 assignments he was covering in the prior year, in the bubble year, whatever 345 00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:41,599 you want to call it, you could probably make the case, based on 346 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,000 how this team is built now that he might just be more important than them 347 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:48,400 functioning on defense than he is on right because just the covers that he like, 348 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,920 the individual assignments he has were just essentially the other team's best player on 349 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,559 the wings or best player period. Well, yeah, because I mean you 350 00:20:55,599 --> 00:20:56,960 look at it. I mean even in the bubble, and throughout last season 351 00:20:57,039 --> 00:21:00,519 there was times where he was guarding Devin Booker or Jamal Murray and then he's 352 00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:04,200 in the bubble and he's guarding Anthony Davis. So exactly what you're saying, 353 00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:10,680 who slides into what would be the TJ. Warren spot in the starting lineup? 354 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,480 Is it Craig, is it Holiday? Is it someone out like McDermott's 355 00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:17,279 not there as an option anymore obviously. Yeah. My thought is because of 356 00:21:17,519 --> 00:21:21,680 the way that they use so many guard to guard screens and the flare screens. 357 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:22,960 Like I mentioned before, it feels like it's going to have to be 358 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,279 justin or if Chris Duarte is just really impressing you in training camp, it 359 00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:30,160 feels like it's going to have to be one of the two of them. 360 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,319 I kind of think Tory fits more ideally is like a small ball four when 361 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,720 he comes in with one of the centers and a bench lineup. But I 362 00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:41,920 almost am not completely opposed to like a flex lineup that if you play a 363 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,920 team like the Clippers and you really need a wing defender, maybe you start 364 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,359 Tory Craig and maybe the rest of the time you're looking at a movement shooter 365 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,000 to pair with Sabonis and the starters and make use of some of those other 366 00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:56,599 things on offense. That seems like that are going to be important. Well, 367 00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:00,319 what's interesting about this team? Compared to Carlyle's path three iterations of the 368 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,039 Mavericks, they just had a very clear pecking order with Lukadacich and it was 369 00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:07,759 just all Luca. But on this team right now, healthy, You've Karas 370 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:12,079 Savery, You've Nlcom Broggden, You've Sabonis. Who do you think is or 371 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,640 who will be? Because I'm sure you know this be like the primary offensive 372 00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:19,680 vessel through which most of the offense is run on this team, right So, 373 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,519 I mean one of the buzzwords that I think I've heard like a million 374 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:27,400 times this summer is unselfish basketball. So I think it's gonna be somewhat more 375 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,640 egalitarian than it was a year ago. But if you look at the numbers 376 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,400 when Carris and Brogden and Sabonis were on the floor, which that is a 377 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:40,000 pretty small sample size, it's like four hundred minutes, but Karris's usage was 378 00:22:40,079 --> 00:22:41,839 the highest of the three, then Broggden, then Sabonis. I think there's 379 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:47,799 somewhat of a misconception that because Sabonus has so many touches that he's like been 380 00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:51,279 their number one option or has been like the quote unquote that guy. And 381 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,000 it's like, yeah, they're funneling touches through him because they needed to. 382 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,920 I mean, for one, he's very good at running dribble handoffs. I 383 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,400 don't really understand why any coach want it to advantage of what he offers in 384 00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:04,720 that way. And I think that the Rick Carlisle will continue to do that 385 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,720 because the Mavericks ran a lot of delay up top as well. But also 386 00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:12,599 when only Carris or Brogden was available, they you had to provide some way 387 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:17,000 for other guys to get downhill. So they're running like Chicago, which you 388 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:21,759 know pinned down into a dribble handoff from Miami handoff into a ball screen because 389 00:23:21,759 --> 00:23:25,200 you had to have an extra layer to help people be able to penetrate the 390 00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:29,079 defense. So they ran handoffs about more than about anybody last year in the 391 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,519 league. They ran a ton of handoffs, and that's in part why so, 392 00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:33,599 yeah, he's having a lot of touches or like it's a flip set 393 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,519 and you might get like three touches on each play they run that like eight 394 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,400 times a game through various variations like his touches are going to wrack up. 395 00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:47,400 But generally speaking, I still think a lot of stuff will be run Sabonus 396 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,599 and through Sabonus in the way I just said. But I also think you'll 397 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:55,079 see Carris and Brogden, you know, opposite each other at the top two 398 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,880 slots and like running flip sets between the two of them, but also like 399 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,680 buddying up where you might see like a ball screen between Sabonis and Carrass on 400 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:07,920 one side of the floor and then you throw a quick pass fire to the 401 00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:12,200 other side to Brogged in off a step up screen from Turner who that can 402 00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:15,680 then pop. Because those are things that feature pretty heavily for the Mavericks last 403 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:19,200 year. You'd see that between Luca and Jalen Brunson, with the ball typically 404 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,920 getting fired to Luca. So I think that there's a way for all three 405 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,000 of them to be doing that. I mean in general, just as like 406 00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:29,799 a side podcast rant, like I see stuff all the time, I mean, 407 00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:32,359 and this parlays into it for some of the reasons I just said, 408 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,559 because you know, I even saw this morning, like well, Sabonis can't 409 00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:37,839 be that guy for the Pacers. Well, my response to that is, 410 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,680 why does he need to be? Like why, Like I don't really understand 411 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,200 why that's even a conversation, Like, yeah, he's a two time All 412 00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:48,880 Star, but he's only making eighteen million dollars, Like I'm not really concerned 413 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,960 with somebody who's a playmate, mover and connector who can elevate and keep offenses 414 00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:56,559 moving making eighteen million dollars a year and then having an argument about why, 415 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,920 like while he can't be a number one or scoring option or franchise guy. 416 00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:03,680 Plus he continues to get better every year, so I don't I don't know. 417 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,160 Some of the narratives was sa Bonus in the Pacers I find incredibly weird, 418 00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,880 But that's just my perspective. Yeah, it does seem like a lot 419 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,160 of the national perception of him is he's like that, he plays a lot 420 00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:18,519 slower like that, everyone just views him as a throwback player, and I 421 00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:22,200 don't know that I've ever viewed him in that regard, And it just feels 422 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,559 like if you watched the Pacers, especially over the last two years, I 423 00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:29,079 don't know why you look at Sabonus and think he's just super throwback. Is 424 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,319 it because he's a big who is such like an important cog in the offensive 425 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,240 mission? I don't. I don't necessarily understand that perception a ton anyway, 426 00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:38,880 Well, yeah, because I mean I think some of it comes, and 427 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,119 I do think that this would benefit to be altered somewhat, and I think 428 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,839 that it will be. I mean, his post up percentage was much higher 429 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,799 last year because for some of the reasons I said, there's only one downhill 430 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:52,000 option on the floor. For much of the year, teams were ducking under 431 00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:55,839 pretty heavily against Brogden and Carriss when only one of them was on the floor, 432 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,160 So that took some of what he can do in the short roll away. 433 00:25:57,599 --> 00:26:00,359 So then it's like, Okay, we're going to dump it down to 434 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,519 him in the post and hope he can score, which if he has a 435 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:07,640 more physical matchup and teams aren't switching, he needed to be running some split 436 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,960 cuts of some sort, and they only had like three various plays that they 437 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,960 ran, and they ran him the same way every time. So I think 438 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,400 that you'll see more randomness with the split action between Carris and Broaden up above 439 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,039 and moving Sabonus into the high post in the elbow area even more. But 440 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,240 yeah, I mean he runs the lay up top. They run five out 441 00:26:26,319 --> 00:26:30,319 with him. Like he's a great off ball screener. He can be setting 442 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,480 flare screens. Flare screen ball screen is very hard for teams to defend, 443 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:36,640 not only because it's it's two actions, but if you sag off of him 444 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:37,920 as a non shooter, then you're giving up a pull up three on the 445 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,400 ball screen. So I think there's potential for stuff that they can do there. 446 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,240 But I think just because you know he's not necessarily shooting threes, people 447 00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:48,440 just exactly what you said. They think he's like anti modern or something. 448 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,960 And they were playing at a fast paced with him at the end of the 449 00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:55,680 year two. So I don't even really see that argument, but some of 450 00:26:55,759 --> 00:27:00,119 it is very weird. Charris LeVert, I think this got lost a lot 451 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,319 in Brooklyn because of his own injuries, because of just the turnover with the 452 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,119 rosters, because he was never necessarily the primary guy. There was the shift 453 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,720 to Delo in part because the Causselvert injury, and then you have all those 454 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,920 stars coming through. But he gives you a lot from the point of attack 455 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,319 on offense, more than even just as a score. I've always thought his 456 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,799 passing as underrated. That being said, each of the past three years he 457 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,880 has shot a higher percentage on his off the dribble threes than catch and shoot 458 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,960 threes. And that's not the only barometer for can he work better off the 459 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,480 ball? But I'm just I've looked at that, and I look at how 460 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,720 he plays. I'm just, do you see a path or anything you saw 461 00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:37,839 from him last season hinted at his ability to maybe play better offensively off others 462 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,359 who have the ball on their hands, right, I mean, that's the 463 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,759 real interesting point about him, because I think for his career he's like thirty 464 00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:49,240 three percent on catch and shoot threes. Like it's very weird that somebody would 465 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,359 be shooting better on the harder attempts. But it seems like he's not always 466 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,480 shot ready when he's off the ball. Like that's something that stuck out a 467 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:00,759 lot when Duarte, in particular, was in Summer League. Guy is always 468 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,079 ready to be shooting, And it doesn't seem like Carris always is with his 469 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:10,039 feet. But do I can't prognosticate that I think he's suddenly going to start 470 00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:11,880 shooting the ball better in that way. I mean, I don't know. 471 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,519 Maybe Rick Carlile and his coaching staff have like shot doctors working with him in 472 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:18,480 that regard. It's possible, But I think what you say there is interesting 473 00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:22,559 and that like, do I think he's suddenly going to be great off ball 474 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:26,400 as a spot up shooter. No, as the backscreener in Spain? Probably 475 00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:30,680 not, But do I think he can be off ball ready to attack and 476 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:33,759 like the boomerang action I explained earlier, Yeah, or like if you're running 477 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:38,480 delay and he's in the corner with Sabonis running the handoff into the pin down 478 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:41,519 for him to attack in that way. Yes, Like we saw that that 479 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,359 worked in ways last year. And I do think that Brogden will probably continue 480 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,319 to be somewhat of the primary. I mean, he's talked before, he 481 00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:52,720 thinks his best position his point guard, and in some ways in what you 482 00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,720 said to makes sense because I do think carris Is passing is somewhat underrated. 483 00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:00,200 He typically hits kind of the same spots on the floor, but that's out 484 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,359 to me and his ability to read off ball screens to get him into position, 485 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,720 like he's not gonna fly off of two ivers like the iverson cut or 486 00:29:07,799 --> 00:29:11,359 fly off of a stagger and suddenly hit a three like he's Doug McDermott. 487 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,839 But he does make reads of where guys are when they're trailing him to whether 488 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,400 that's the cutback door or to get himself open and to get to the ball 489 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,799 screen action in ways that I didn't really expect to see. So I think 490 00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:26,079 that there's more that they can explore with that where it won't just be reliant 491 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,480 completely on how well he's shooting a spot up three, though you would like 492 00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:33,240 to see improvement. I do want to see him setting back screens now in 493 00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:37,519 this bad pick and roll, now that you mentioned it, if he's done 494 00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:40,279 it already a bunch, I've guess I've missed it. No, I've never 495 00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:44,920 seen it. One of the things that I always found funny in Dallas with 496 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,279 Carlos, He just regardless it seemed like who was on the second unit, 497 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,000 what the bench was, the matters are always able to cobble together these second 498 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,960 unit heavy lineups that were good. How do you sort of see that rotation 499 00:29:57,079 --> 00:30:02,359 shaking out after the starting five where for Indie, whether it's how they're going 500 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,359 to stagger, Turner's the bonus and who they're surrounding those guys with. Is 501 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,839 there a player maybe even that people aren't talking about that's gonna play a bigger 502 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,960 role under Kyle and could could present wind up playing a big roll or Jeremy 503 00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:18,359 Lamb kind of seems like a Rick Carlisle type player a little bit, even 504 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,160 though he's not necessarily an afterthought for this team. So I'm just curious how 505 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,119 you see that element outside the starting five shaking out The entire Jeremy Lamb perception 506 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,279 is going to be kind of interesting, especially in the wake of TJ Warren's 507 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,720 and definite absence and Edmund Sumner rupturing as Achilles tendon Because heading into the season, 508 00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:37,880 there was rumblings that the Pacers had been looking to find a new home 509 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,039 for Jeremy, which made sense because if everyone was healthy, he might be, 510 00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:45,319 you know, taking minutes from duar to hit kind of that backup two 511 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,599 spot, and Jeremy's going to be in a contract year, so would he 512 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,559 necessarily be happy in that type of situation. But now that they're down by 513 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,279 two wings and he's healthy, like, there's still stuff that Jeremy can offer. 514 00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:59,839 He shot the three well last year. He can mozee into the lane 515 00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,279 and get to his spots, like and I agree with you, Like the 516 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,200 perception might have been that he'd be out of the rotation, but now if 517 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,119 they need guys to kind of make up that scoring and makes sense that he 518 00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:12,119 could be in the ten man depending upon how it shakes out. It's kind 519 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:15,640 of difficult for me to parse right now until I know completely who they're going 520 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:22,880 to start in place of TJ. But the one lineup that worked really well 521 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,359 for them two years ago with TJ and Aaron Holiday and Justin and Doug and 522 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,559 Sabonis, I'd like to find some sort of facts simile. I'd like to 523 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:33,319 see them find some sort of fact simile for that, because I do think 524 00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:37,559 it would be so to both Miles and Sabonis's benefit to go back to the 525 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,559 arrangement where Sabonus would play like the first six minutes of the first quarter and 526 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:47,200 then come out with Miles playing almost the entire first quarter with the starters, 527 00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:51,799 and then bring Sabonis back in to play with the bench, because I think 528 00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:53,640 Sabonus, with everything that he gets asked to do with as physical as he 529 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,480 gets asked to play, with having to defend fours at the other end and 530 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,480 carrying the load in terms of playmaking and his amount of touches they get funneled 531 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,599 through him. I think it's better for him to play in shorter bursts. 532 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,359 I thought there was times at the end, especially the first and the third 533 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,680 quarters last year, because he and Miles kind of flip flopped roles under the 534 00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:16,839 orchard where Miles would play more with the bench that Sabosters didn't look like he 535 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,319 had the same energy stores, like even on the glass. It was like 536 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,839 it'd be at the end of the quarter and somebody might, you know, 537 00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:25,440 get two second chances that you wouldn't otherwise see with him out there. So 538 00:32:25,559 --> 00:32:29,400 then it becomes, you know, guaranteed t J McConnell's going to be the 539 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,240 backup point. I thought Oshe Brissette might be able to sneak in there at 540 00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:36,000 the backup four spot, but now it's like, you know, is that 541 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,400 Tory seems like that could be either way depending on how they view Jeremy Lamb. 542 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,279 So it's hard for me to come up with a definitive five. I 543 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,319 probably could have given you a better one if if this roster would be healthy, 544 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,039 but it seems like that's never going to happen. So do we expect 545 00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:53,640 Turner to be just full go to start the season after that right toe injury 546 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,039 last year? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm so happy for him getting 547 00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:01,599 to see him on videos like I typically don't like watching all of the off 548 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:06,359 season workout clips, like I've kind of had enough of that. But given 549 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,920 that what he hype table, Oh, now that one, I love that 550 00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:13,640 one. I love that one could stay. But I'm given what he revealed 551 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,839 about you know that he really struggled with that injury, both physically and mentally. 552 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,519 It looked like from what he shared that he's been back being able to 553 00:33:21,559 --> 00:33:23,039 play up and down some and at least been able to put in work in 554 00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:27,319 his shot, which is another element of this, because you know, under 555 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,599 Nate McMillan, he had kind of indicated on a podcast with c Jim McCollum 556 00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:35,119 that they weren't necessarily on the same page about what his role was going to 557 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,680 be, and then last offseason there just wasn't a lot of time in between 558 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,480 the bubble and the start for him to really have worked, you know, 559 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,200 on being a stretch for so to speak. And now it feels like this 560 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,039 this summer, he should have had a pretty good indicator of what his role 561 00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:52,599 is going to be. I know Rick Carlisle met with him a couple of 562 00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:54,920 times or went and visited him, and that he's had time. He's shown 563 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,880 lots of videos of working on his shot, so maybe there will be some 564 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400 development there in addition to working out with Julius Randall, who we do know 565 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:06,799 did improve his shot. So you know, you never know he shot the 566 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:09,079 ball okay outside of that first round matchup with the Evant Hawks. Yes, 567 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:14,440 aside from that, we'll ignore that. But this is going to be your 568 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,440 favorite question obviously, but it is part of the cookie cutter questions I asked 569 00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:21,639 on every look ahead we have to go through the season. I think you 570 00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:22,719 can understand more of this. But as of right now, if you had 571 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,400 to pick who's the player that's most likely to get traded before the deadline, 572 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,760 well, I mean, it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if the roster gets healthy, 573 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,679 and since Jeremy Lamb isn't an expiring year, if they wanted to eventually 574 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,960 clear minutes, like maybe Jeremy plays can show a contender. Hey, I'm 575 00:34:44,039 --> 00:34:46,760 healthy, I can still contribute in a bench role for you if he got 576 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:52,880 moved. But the entire TJ situation is somewhat interesting too because he's an expiring 577 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,400 contract. I doubt he reaches an agreement on an extension because he's not going 578 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,320 to make as much in an extension as you will likely make in free agency, 579 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,679 depending upon what his foot situation is, and then when does he return 580 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,480 and what, Like how confident are the Pacers that they're going to be able 581 00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:08,440 to resign him. I think that's kind of an underrated thing to watch with 582 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,199 the Pacers, is how they view that long term relationship because I don't think 583 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,440 he's going to come up with an extension. But the double big thing is 584 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,079 always going to loom, like if they don't get off to a great start, 585 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:21,000 and it just doesn't seem like this team's ever going to be, you 586 00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:23,559 know, better than what they were at full strength, you got to look 587 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:27,559 at moving one or the other of them, like at a certain point time, 588 00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:30,760 especially this is what I said before, like if you're if you're already 589 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,679 thinking about how much you're going to have to stagger them. And then there 590 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,320 was even some rumblings in the Indie Start was reported that a league source had 591 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,079 said they might bring Miles off the bench. Like, to me, if 592 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:43,920 you're even considering bringing one of them off the bench, and you're gonna have 593 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,639 to stagger them a bunch, and if they aren't closing games together, it's 594 00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:49,159 time to pull the plug. Like your bus players need to be able to 595 00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:52,159 play together. So that's where I land with it. Me, would just 596 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,880 be bizarre to make that decision then in the middle of the season, if 597 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,280 they're thinking about it throughout the entire off season. If you mentioned I didn't 598 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,239 even see the bench stuff with Turner, so if you were thinking along those 599 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,800 lines or and I know it's a different coach, but like if you're trying 600 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,159 to like help to figure out how you're going to stagger them and what that 601 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,079 does to your closing rotations, I just don't know why there wouldn't be more 602 00:36:14,159 --> 00:36:15,760 due diligence, Like why isn't that to me, that seems like a move 603 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,760 because of how important theoretically both those players are that you should be making over 604 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,960 the off season rather than the middle of the year, where I guess maybe 605 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,199 it's easier to adjust. But then you're also just bringing in guys who didn't 606 00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:30,480 have a training camp with you like, aren't totally familiar with the team, 607 00:36:30,519 --> 00:36:32,480 and so that would be especially if they did it early on, that would 608 00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:36,400 kind of blow my mind a little bit at this point, right, And 609 00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:38,400 I don't know, I don't know that that was necessarily coming from the Pacers 610 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,119 because they didn't say a pace or source or a team source. It set 611 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:45,719 a league source. So that might have been there's another team suggesting how the 612 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,119 Pacers might make that pairing work. I don't know, from Charlotte or something 613 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,320 exactly. It made it they'll bring Turner off the bench because we would like 614 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:58,320 Miles Turner to start for us. But yeah, I mean, that's that's 615 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,639 the thing. I think I talked about that when I was here the last 616 00:37:00,639 --> 00:37:01,639 time, that if you were going to make a move for either one of 617 00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:06,119 them, especially with Sabonus, that you would want to know that in the 618 00:37:06,119 --> 00:37:08,760 summer because you would be structuring the defense entirely differently than what you would be 619 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,679 doing with Miles, Like, you're not going to be funneling a bunch of 620 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,119 stuff to Miles if that's going to be Sabonus at solo five and you know, 621 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,800 vice versa. So it feels like it would be pretty hard to restructure 622 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,719 some of that mid season unless they're already planning, like, hey, we're 623 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,920 not just going to be expecting both of these guys to play the exact same 624 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,000 system, and when one of them is at solo five, we're going to 625 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:31,920 be more proactive than what nape Yorkan was and we're not going to be so 626 00:37:32,119 --> 00:37:37,440 on autopilot with what our defensive system is in general that they can make the 627 00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:42,000 adjustment, but they aren't. They don't typically make. I mean, with 628 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,559 the aside from Victor and what became necessary because they needed him to come back 629 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:49,239 and kind of recoup his value, it seems for the most part that their 630 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,000 preference is to make those types of trades in the off season. I think 631 00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:54,199 in this case, because they have another new coach, they're kind of willing 632 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,480 to see and especially since this group of five has never played a minute of 633 00:37:58,559 --> 00:38:01,199 basketball together, are willing to see what, you know, who fits with 634 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,880 who, and how does this how does this new system sit on everybody before 635 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,679 they make a big change, which I mean makes sense in a certain regard, 636 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,840 but yeah, and imagine making had a decision before even seeing TJ. 637 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,119 Warren with like all this, and I think I would probably default to Jeremy 638 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:20,719 Lamb just because I don't know, like would they bring him back? And 639 00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:23,639 TJ. Warren's injury just makes it so iffy. But I even think with 640 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,519 that, you're probably still want to see where the TJ. Warren stuff would 641 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,360 lead over Lamb And if he's gonna shoot like forty percent from three again, 642 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,480 maybe you keep him. But maybe that also makes him easier to move. 643 00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:35,960 So I do not know. But what do you so when you look at 644 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,960 this roster, whether it's a specific player, archetype position, or just a 645 00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:45,440 functional void, what is Indiana's biggest weakness on paper? Yeah? I mean 646 00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:50,719 not that we need another defense ramp, but they really got to find a 647 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,239 scheme that fits for them defensively. That's not what they were doing last year. 648 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,840 Like I'm not an anti zone. I'm opposed to zone. When you're 649 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,239 like seven different defenses and it looks pretty clear that guys don't know their roles 650 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:08,119 and responsibilities and you're just running it against every opponent without a lot of thought 651 00:39:08,199 --> 00:39:13,840 about why exactly you're doing it other than to create chaos that ends up being 652 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,360 confusion for yourselves. Some of the autopilot ball pressure, like it just some 653 00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:22,400 systematically that's where I land. But I think from like a personnel standpoint, 654 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,199 and I don't want to sound like I'm Slam magazine or whatever, but like 655 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:30,800 having a guy in the playoffs that's like a legitimate one on one score who 656 00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:36,880 you know, when your plays are scouted for when there's exaggerated coverage, can 657 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,840 still score and get points for you. And maybe Karis Lavert comes to grow 658 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,639 into that role. I mean he wasn't. He had good moments in that 659 00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:46,440 playoff series in the bubble against the Raptors. Maybe he continues to grow into 660 00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:49,920 that the more he has the ball in his hands, but his numbers. 661 00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:54,599 It's interesting because aesthetically his game and one on one situations is more appealing to 662 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,679 watch, I think than Brogden's. But Brogden, for their careers, has 663 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,719 been more efficient and isol then Carris has been. And that's in part because 664 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,199 he shoots threes and is better at shooting threes. But points still stands. 665 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,400 When Carris came over at the back end of the season, he struggled a 666 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:15,679 little bit against attacking switches and his shot profile kind of makes it difficult consistently 667 00:40:15,159 --> 00:40:17,840 for him to be a number one option, though he kind of needs to 668 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,480 be a number one option for some of the reasons we laid out before. 669 00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:23,480 So for him, I think he needs to make a bit of a jump 670 00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:28,719 that can show like, hey, I can consistently be this kind of like 671 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,079 what he was in May, which I mean some of those numbers were juiced 672 00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:35,559 because the place the Pacers were just playing so ridiculously fast, but he did 673 00:40:35,639 --> 00:40:38,280 show growth in the two man game with he and Sabonis. So I do 674 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,239 think that they need somebody that's like, hey, this is a wing scorer 675 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,960 that we have that can go get points when stuff breaks. And you know 676 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,280 that's somewhat t J. Warren, but not completely because you're not going to 677 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,519 run a ton of stuff with him as an initiator or on ball, and 678 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:55,440 then when he does get exaggerated coverage is he's not really a playmaker in the 679 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,360 same way that Carris is. So if anybody's gonna step into that role, 680 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,639 that kind of who it needs to be. This question, it's probably for 681 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,400 the Pacers more than a lot of teams, is going to be matchup dependent. 682 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:12,039 But what should be their go to closing lineup and crunch time? Right? 683 00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:15,199 So for what the reasons I said before, it would be kind of 684 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,519 annoying if Turner and Sabonis aren't both in that lineup, because I just think 685 00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:22,239 your best players need to be able to close games for you. But a 686 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,480 lot of times over the last two years it's involved Justin. I looked up 687 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,599 and you sent me these questions. I was like, I wonder exactly how 688 00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:32,880 many clutch minutes Justin has played. And they played one hundred and sixty eight 689 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,920 clutch minutes last year, and Justin played one hundred and forty one of them. 690 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,199 So like as a bench player, and he was starting games last year 691 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,079 when TJ was out as well, but like, he's played three hundred and 692 00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:46,360 two out of the three and twenty clutch minutes over the last two seasons. 693 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:52,039 So they they're obviously confident. Both coaches, both Nates, were confident in 694 00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:55,079 his ability not only to provide value as a defender, but also be able 695 00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:58,800 to shoot the ball. So you want guys out there with two way ability. 696 00:41:59,199 --> 00:42:00,920 So if you are going to downsize and you're gonna pick either Turner or 697 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,079 Sabonis in those situations, I think you look at if TJ's healthy, TJ 698 00:42:06,679 --> 00:42:12,880 and then two from the Justin Duarte Craig grouping with you know, hopefully you're 699 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,440 hoping Duarte and Justin can can handle that, because what I said, like, 700 00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:21,280 they're going to offer you scoring as well as defense is there. And 701 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,679 I was going through this because it's my favorite question to ask and think about. 702 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,880 But the team's not really set up to be weird. But if there 703 00:42:28,039 --> 00:42:30,360 was, if you were that, if you're at Rick Carlile, is there 704 00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:34,519 a quirky, unconventional lineup that you're just just trying rolling out to see what 705 00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:39,719 happens. I want you to take this answer extremely seriously. I think that 706 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:45,519 they needed to roll out O Shaber set, Isaiah Jackson, Goga Turner, 707 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:51,000 and Sabonis. They drafted all these these centers inside them all time to play. 708 00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:53,239 They all center lineup. No, Like, I think that the Pacers 709 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,239 for the last several years have never really had a lineup where they can say 710 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,239 like this is a switch everything lineup, Like they've never really had that option, 711 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:04,280 so I don't. I think it kind of sounds like they expect Isaiah 712 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,360 Jackson to be playing with the madd ance more, but he can definitely challenge 713 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,519 shots on the perimeter, so kind of selfishly, I'd like to see what 714 00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:15,599 happens if you play like Brogden, Justin, Tory Craig, O'Shea Brissett as 715 00:43:15,679 --> 00:43:22,280 like that sideline to sideline weach side rim protector guy with Isaiah Jackson at the 716 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,519 five and his ability to kind of switch out. So I'd like to see 717 00:43:24,559 --> 00:43:29,199 a very switchy lineup, just in very small minutes to see if they can 718 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,239 do it, because that's not something as a blogger I've really ever had the 719 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,199 chance to cover. As you know, I'm a sucker for small ball lineups, 720 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:37,400 and they will never try this lineup because, as you mentioned, they 721 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:43,280 have roughly eighty centers on their eighty bigs on their roster. Give me TJ. 722 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,719 Warren, Tory, Craig, Justin, Holiday Carath Lbert and Malcolm Brogden. 723 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,119 I just want to see it for a few possessions, just to see 724 00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:53,199 what happens. I don't Warren's probably your day facto five in that situation that 725 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,639 probably ends terribly, but who knows. I also just want to see it. 726 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,840 Well, they did some of that with ocea de facto five when all 727 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,119 the centers were injured like Karrison Brogden. I mean obviously TJ wasn't playing, 728 00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:07,199 but Karrison Brogden and Justin and Doug would be out there with O shape or 729 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,679 set at times or the back end the last season. So I'm just I'm 730 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,599 rooting for them too. For I'm not rooting for injuries. I'm just going 731 00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:16,239 to root for them to trade some big so that they can open TJ. 732 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,360 Warren to get healthy, so that they can play my mic working lineup that 733 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,320 I think would probably give Rick Carlyle heart palpitations just looking at it on paper. 734 00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:30,320 So there as we're recording this, they're over under a set at forty 735 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,599 two point five. Would you take the over the under on that? And 736 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:37,960 where in the larger scheme of the Eastern Conference do you see them finishing? 737 00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:40,760 And we talk about loaded questions that is so difficult to ask without even having 738 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,920 a timetable for t J Warren, Right, I mean, I think that 739 00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:47,039 even with all their injuries last year, that they were on pace to win 740 00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:51,800 thirty eight games and an eighty two schedule. And there's games like they were 741 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,079 so bad in the fourth quarter at times, like they just ran out of 742 00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:58,960 gas and had inexplucable errors. Like if you look at their plus minus in 743 00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:01,440 the clutch at those lunchtime minutes, like most of those guys were like minus 744 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,840 sixty and the and the clutch minutes they played, so like if some of 745 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,239 that falls better in their favor, I think I don't feel bad about taking 746 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,519 the over even with you know, TJ being out early. I think that's 747 00:45:15,559 --> 00:45:19,400 possible, even though the East seems like it's improved for me, like when 748 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,159 I thought TJ was going to be available, I don't think it's ridiculous to 749 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:24,679 think this team could be a sixth seed like now. I do think that 750 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:28,159 their range could be back at the bottom of the play and tournament. Like 751 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,360 if you told me they were six, then you told me they were tenth. 752 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,760 I would think both of those outcomes were completely reasonable. But I think 753 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,119 that they can be back and be a playoff team. I think that there's 754 00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:38,880 going to be a significant upgrade, not only just from some of the schemes 755 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,639 be or Turner's running, but from some of the stuff that was happening behind 756 00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:45,079 the scenes, like just an addition by subtraction there. Like I'm not somebody 757 00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:47,519 that thinks coaching is be all and end all in the NBA. I think 758 00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:52,480 talent matters more. But I think that last year was a very bizarre season 759 00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:54,119 for the Pacers, and I know that can apply to a lot of teams, 760 00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:58,559 but I think they're better than what the product they were putting out was. 761 00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:01,559 And this season, you look at the roster now, even without TJ. 762 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,840 Warren healthy or having end been something like, they still just have a 763 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,760 bunch of good players and not everything's a perfect fit. If we're still trying 764 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,760 to talk about the Sabonis turner, what's going to happen with that? But 765 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,719 if they're healthier, how do you not? This feels like a very easy 766 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,079 over for me. I am, however, looking at all the other podcasts, 767 00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:22,639 these look aheads that I've done, I'm apparently very optimistic about a lot 768 00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:24,159 of teams. That year. I smashed so many overs. I'm gonna need 769 00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:28,440 to start going under. I only have under for the Warriors in the Thunder 770 00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:31,119 so far. But I'm just looking at this and it's like, unless they 771 00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:35,599 get hit with injury catastrophe again, I'm even baking in Like, if TJ. 772 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,159 Warre doesn't return till Christmas, probably still take the over here. And 773 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,679 you think you mentioned about the East, I somehow feel like it's not getting 774 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,559 talked enough. Is everyone's trying to figure out who's that third best team behind 775 00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:51,039 Milwaukee In Brooklyn, those are very clearly the top two. There's I think 776 00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:53,320 you could throw in Lanta Miami into that discussion if you want to say they're 777 00:46:53,320 --> 00:47:00,280 a cut above everybody else. But there's a chance that like three through line 778 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,559 or ten could be depending on how you feel about the Bowls, the Raptors, 779 00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:07,679 they could be like super interchangeable in the Eastports, like the Pacers might 780 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,880 not be a bad team but could still finish eleven or something. But I 781 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,239 could also see them finishing like four. Yeah. Like, it definitely feels 782 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,199 like there's a marsh pit there of like Eastern Conference teams competing for the sixth 783 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,760 spot. Is there anything or anyone I didn't ask you about that you think 784 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,079 needs to be covered about this team? Did you need to dig deeper into 785 00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:31,199 the all center lineup that you want to see Rick Carlisle throw out? No, 786 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,119 never forget that. Malcolm brog didn't even played a few minutes at center 787 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,079 last year. That's how hard up the Pacers were. I don't know that 788 00:47:38,119 --> 00:47:40,639 I could forget that because I'm not sure that I knew that. Yeah, 789 00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:44,239 I try to think which Yeah, it actually happened. I'm trying to think 790 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:45,679 which game that was, because I took a screenshot of it and said, 791 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,639 never forget. Oh, it was against the Spurs because more and more people 792 00:47:49,679 --> 00:47:52,679 were even getting hurt during that game and they were already out of centers to 793 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,239 play. So it was in the fourth quarter you played a couple of minutes 794 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,880 at center. I'm gonna need to go back and watch that because that's make 795 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,199 it happen. I want to see it again and then for an extended run. 796 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,800 Kaitlyn, this was fantastic. As always, thank you for giving me 797 00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:07,119 so much of your time. As per usual, you're able to tell our 798 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:12,320 listeners where they can find you on social media and your work. Yeah. 799 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,000 So my handles at C two Underscore Cooper, and then my regular home is 800 00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:17,679 at Indy corn Rows, where I have about one or two pieces per week 801 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,440 generally during the regular season, though I really haven't had something this week because 802 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,960 I had a freelance piece over at five thirty eight. So yes, throw 803 00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:28,679 the confetti. That was a great piece. It was about Eric Gordon and 804 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,239 the importance of just spacing and man, who are we talking about in reference 805 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,800 on this podcast, was it Turner. Oh yeah, look it's a it's 806 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,639 Eric Gordon effect. He just needs to hoist them and be an actual threat 807 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,440 and we don't have to care as much about the percentages. You got a 808 00:48:42,519 --> 00:48:45,639 lot into what that can do just by taking by virtue of taking those shots. 809 00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:47,679 At least. I don't know if he's going to spot up from Eric 810 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,480 Gordon range would be pretty interesting, but that was a great piece on five 811 00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:54,119 thirty eight, so check it out. Kaitlyn. Thank you as always. 812 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,440 You know by now because I think it might be a double digit appearance for 813 00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:00,800 you on Harmon Knox. I'll be pasturing you again in the future, so 814 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:10,440 thanks much more. Thanks for having me h