WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.480 So Amazon and Alva Labs have a great partnership because we help them with emerging 2 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:14.080 crypto companies or developers that need compute power and storage for Amazon Web Services. 3 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:19.519 Amazon Web Services has a large swath of existing users, obviously one of the 4 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:26.079 largest cloud service providers, and they introduce us to traditional enterprises that I want 5 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:38.240 to deploy blockchain enable solutions. So it's a very synergistic relationship. This content 6 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:41.320 is brought to you by Uphold, which is a great crypto platform that I've 7 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:46.399 been using since twenty eighteen. Uphold has all the top cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin and 8 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.119 all the all coins. In fact, they have two hundred and sixty plus 9 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:53.600 cryptocurrencies on their platform. You can also trade precious metals, stable coins, 10 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.280 and thirty seven fiat currencies. In addition, they are available in over one 11 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.240 hundred and fifty countries and this platform is fully reserved. They do audits so 12 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:07.120 you can trust that your funds are saved. No commingling, no lending out 13 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.799 your funds. If you'd like to learn more about Uphold, please visit the 14 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:15.400 link in the description. Welcome to the Thinking Crypto podcast. With me Today 15 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.000 is John wu who's the president of Able Labs. John, it's great to 16 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.120 have you on. Hey, it's great to be here. I love your 17 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.840 work. Thank you John, and John. I'm a big fan of Avalanche. 18 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:29.959 I'm an Avax tokenholder in full disclosure, so I'm excited to be speaking 19 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:32.480 with you today and learn about all the great things you guys are doing at 20 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:34.359 able Labs. Let's start with your background, though. Where are you from 21 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:40.159 and what's your professional background? Sure born and raised in the New York area. 22 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:44.719 I think something interesting about me growing up is well, I was one 23 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:49.319 of those kids that loved sports but was equally happy just you know, being 24 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.920 the first kid on the block to buy a laptop or a PC and do 25 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.319 very basic coding in my house. So I can go either way, and 26 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:01.920 I love both sides, you know. Literally, I loved playing sports. 27 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:06.879 I love the fact that it was community based and teamwork, but I loved 28 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:10.719 also innovation and coding, you know, in basic. Back then, I 29 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.840 was a very base It's a basic language, but it's also called basic and 30 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:20.479 professionally, you know, I was an economics major in college and I went 31 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:24.560 to Wall Street. I was at various hedge funds and private equity firms, 32 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:30.199 and I was a tech investor. So that was my first career studying emerging 33 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:35.120 trends in technology, and one thing that was pretty good was is identifying the 34 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:39.039 future technologies earlier than hopefully most people and getting in ahead of the wave, 35 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:45.560 similar to the way I saw the crypto and bitcoin world happening in the two 36 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:50.240 thousand and tens. And what was your first encounter with bigcoin and what was 37 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:57.159 your AHA moment? I think there were two aha moments. I first learned 38 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:01.400 about it roughly twenty eleven and twelve this time period, and I went to 39 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:06.879 a whole bunch of meetups. It was really bitcoin only back then, and 40 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:12.919 frankly, I wasn't convinced. There were a very interesting cast of characters at 41 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:19.240 all of these meetups that wasn't necessarily who I was. But and I frankly 42 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:23.439 did not know, you know, having a traditional finance background and learning how 43 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:29.439 to value companies and exploring the tam of a new technology, I couldn't figure 44 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.240 it out for bitcoin. Frankly, I couldn't do a DCF on it basically. 45 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.400 And then it was not until like twenty fourteen, after monk Ox, 46 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:42.719 when the thing crashed again. Bitcoin crashed again. I revisited, and at 47 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:45.560 that point I realized, you know what, stop looking at this like a 48 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:50.360 company, think about it as a commodity or maybe even a currency, and 49 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.360 then just do a supply and demand analysis like someone would do for commodities. 50 00:03:53.919 --> 00:04:00.800 And back then there were like only fifteen million bitcoin in existence, so the 51 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:06.240 mining, you know, hasn't gone to where it is today. And I 52 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:12.080 did the incremental supply times the price at the time, and I also was 53 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:18.560 counting addresses on the demand side and making minimal assumptions for dollars per address, 54 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:26.279 and was so clear to me that with the most minimal assumptions, incremental demand 55 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:31.079 was far greater than the incremental supply being unearthed on a given any given day. 56 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:35.879 So I knew that this thing, whatever it is, is going higher. 57 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.839 That's when I really first got into it in twenty fourteen, and then 58 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:46.720 the next aha moment was actually twenty seventeen. You're an old hat, so 59 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.120 you probably remember the Ico boom, crypto kiddies breaking down, you know, 60 00:04:50.279 --> 00:04:56.480 ethereum. So I had done my share of you know, as an investor, 61 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:00.920 IPOs fundraises and et cetera, et cetera. When I saw how eloquent 62 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:05.519 and how quick and how cost effective a global crowd fund could be in an 63 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:11.839 ico raise, I was those are the first time I realized what I can 64 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:16.120 actually use this technology for a use case. And I was then on a 65 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:21.839 mission. Basically my first gig in the space as an operator was at a 66 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:28.639 place called shares Post. We were trying to tokenize private securities and then we 67 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.160 mentioned crypto kiddies. But what I realized while we're doing even though we made 68 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:38.160 a regulatory compliant with the ATS and all that stuff and do a change of 69 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:42.439 membership of the ATS, working with SEC and FINRA, the problem was the 70 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.120 world wasn't ready for it, and the technology wasn't ready for it. And 71 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:53.680 I had known doctor Amon Gudnseer who was trying to solve a lot of the 72 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:59.560 technology scaling issues at the time. You know, he and his PHT students 73 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:02.639 at Cornell. I did my undergrad at Cornell, so we had known each 74 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:06.800 other for some time. And I realized that from a business perspective, the 75 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:14.600 technology in the space needed to get better. And he actually created an unbelievable 76 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:20.000 consensus protocol Avalanche that does scale, that is fast, and that is still 77 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:27.000 secure. The Trilemma if you will, And that's when I joined, and 78 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.240 it was about four plus years ago. Now ten of us in a room, 79 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:35.240 and I'm happy to report were a successful company at AVA Labs with over 80 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:42.600 two hundred and forty and working on changing the way the world works. And 81 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.639 what makes the Avalanche blockchain different from others? There are so many blockchains out 82 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:50.360 there right and many who are competing against each other. But what makes Avalanche 83 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:57.920 stand out? So let's separate. AVA Labs is the team and it's a 84 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.600 software services company helping others. Is built on top of Avalanche. Av A 85 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.279 Lanch was created by the aim and Good Seer or doctor aim and Goodcier or 86 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:13.120 good as I affectionately call him. But Avalanche today is a permissionless layer one 87 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:19.439 open source network or blockchain and that has its own it's a nonprofit governance board, 88 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:24.399 et cetera, et cetera. So what different av A Lanche? First, 89 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:28.279 before I talk about AVA Labs. What difference av A Lanche frankly, 90 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:34.680 very simply is it's damn fast and it's very scalable in plain English. So 91 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:43.240 the speed of it, because of the consensus protocol that GUN developed is basically 92 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:48.000 allows it to basically have instant finality, so settlement and payment happens at the 93 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:55.720 same time. Super valuable in so many different aspects. And then the architecture 94 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:00.600 of the chain is such that it scales what I call in a heart horizontal 95 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.240 manner. So we call it subnets, but think of them as networks on 96 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:09.399 top of other networks the Avalanche network. Using the aval Lanche consensus, you 97 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.480 can create your own custom blockchain. You can make it permissionless, or you 98 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:20.759 make it private if you need kycaml if it's a traditional finance related But they 99 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:26.360 are very interoperable with all the sub nets or networks with each other, and 100 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:33.039 they are interoperable with the main chain of Avalanche. I think those two distinct 101 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:39.879 characteristics really is what makes aval Lanche the blockchain phenomena and distinct. Now you 102 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:46.039 mentioned it's very scalable, and there was news that it was a proposal recently 103 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.960 to help the transactions per second reach one hundred thousand. Tell us about that 104 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.639 initiative. Wow, so you're up to speed on everything. This is part 105 00:08:54.679 --> 00:09:01.440 of our ROMP and pipeline. Super excited for what we call of ricks and 106 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:07.799 between ris and what we call hyper stk. It will allow sub nets to 107 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:13.200 transact at one hundred thousand tps. So rix is a paralyzation if you think 108 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:18.799 about it. It eliminates a lot of valueless transactions, so it allows transactions 109 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.279 to go through in a better way. Hyper SDK allows you to create your 110 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.600 own virtual you know, a better virtual machine, a faster virtual machine. 111 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:28.799 The two of them in combo with a third thing called Firewood, which is 112 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:35.799 a storage a solution will allow these subnets to really really be fast. Like 113 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.639 I said, one hundred thousand tps. No, I'm glad you got to 114 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.960 that because that's going to happen very very shortly. Yeah, that's exciting. 115 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.600 And I don't know if there's any other blockchains that are on that level which 116 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:54.919 can maintain up time. But that caveat of I know, given what has 117 00:09:54.919 --> 00:10:01.559 happened last night. But yes, totally, but not so just so people 118 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:05.039 will know there was a blockchain out there that went down last night, not 119 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.440 avalanched, to be clear. Yeah, and I'm sure many you'll see the 120 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.080 headlines. But tell us about the abax token and the staking capabilities there. 121 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:18.679 Okay, so first I want to take a step back because when people talk 122 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:24.000 about staking, it's almost like they only treat it as a financial services component. 123 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:30.480 It's actually when you're staking, you're validating, you're running infrastructure, whether 124 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:35.879 it's hardware or software or both. And what it really is is it's kind 125 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.480 of like in the old days in the Internet world and ISP. You're helping 126 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:46.279 secure and you're helping run the existing technology. So I want to make that 127 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:50.639 point clear because when people think about staking these days, all they think about 128 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:56.799 is the financial component of it. But what's staking a noval Lanche does. 129 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:03.759 That's interesting is that not not only are you staking to secure the Avalanche network, 130 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.840 but all of these call it subnets, subnets or app chains or you 131 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.519 know, network chains, whatever you want to call it. You can set 132 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:18.559 your own requirements for staking, your own gas fees, it's your own execution 133 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:24.279 environment. You can make it composable to the way your desire based on your 134 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:30.720 application. So what's interesting here again is you're not just helping out Avalanche making 135 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.360 Avalanche more secure, but when you're a developer on one of these app chains, 136 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:39.399 you can set your own staking for your own subnet rules. That is, 137 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:46.480 so it's a very flexible system and I think it benefits everyone. Yeah, 138 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.200 that's really great. And tell us a bit about the use cases that 139 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.519 you're targeting. And I know some of this is ongoing, right, every 140 00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:00.279 business, every blockchain and so forth, is looking for additional adoption and used 141 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.200 to expand their footprints. But what are the core use cases that you're targeting. 142 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:09.480 Maybe it's working with institutions or whatever it may be. So earlier we 143 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:13.440 talked about the unique aspects of Avalanche, we didn't get to the team at 144 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.919 AVA Labs, the software services team that tries to build an avalanche. I 145 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:22.759 think one of the unique characteristics of AVA Labs is really the people. What 146 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:28.360 I mean by that is you have world class visionary technologists like Good and a 147 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.120 whole bunch of great technologists from Cornell University, and then you have people like 148 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:35.559 me who've built out the business side of it with you close to thirty years 149 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:41.360 of commercial experience, both investing in technology companies as well as working in technology 150 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:48.639 companies, and AVA labs mission has always been more than just create an unbelievable 151 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:54.840 crypto native ecosystem. That is very very important to us. But the other 152 00:12:54.919 --> 00:13:00.879 mission, in my own personal mission, is to create use cases for traditional 153 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:07.639 Web two companies or Track five. So when you say, what is going 154 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:13.000 on on what will happen at Ava laps or Avalanche. There's two components to 155 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:18.799 it. On the crypt native side, the ecosystem is flourishing. We're talking 156 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.519 about last year in twenty twenty three, we had one hundred percent growth in 157 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:28.360 addresses. Right now, I think there are and this combines both, but 158 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.960 there are about, you know somewhere like twenty plus live subnets. There are 159 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:39.799 another eighty plus in the test net environment that will go live this year. 160 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:48.200 Developers now and even Elliptic Capital I think is the name of the company that 161 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.759 writes you know about developer counts. I've noted that aval developers on Avalanche I've 162 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.639 grown five hundred percent in the last three or four years. So a lot 163 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:01.200 of development happening, a lot of DAPs coming on, a lot of developers 164 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:07.200 coming on, and it's a thriving ecosystem that's on the crypto native side. 165 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:13.080 Then on the call it crossover side, Web two to Web three side or 166 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.759 tratified to DeFi side. So many exciting things happening. I think there are 167 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.679 three areas, if I can summarize it. One in the very short term, 168 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:28.320 there are a lot of triple A gaming type companies and gaming tooling like 169 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:37.120 Merit Circle creating subnets on Avalanche. These are companies that have raised these triple 170 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.600 A publishers, have raised seventy million plus to develop a game, and they're 171 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.679 going to launch a healthy component of that on a sub net, their own 172 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.279 sub net in Avalanche. So I think on that side, some point this 173 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.240 year you're going to see a big hit in one of these games, because 174 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:56.879 these are publishers who have had experienced with big hits and traditional and that'll be 175 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:03.639 driving a lot of usage into Avalanche. Another area we already talked about traditional 176 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:09.279 finance. Most recently we announced the Sandbox effort with JP Morgan Apollo in the 177 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:16.399 Sandbox of Montory Authoriti Singapore. So just to summarize that one, that is 178 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.000 really cool actually because what it's doing is it's creating interoperability between private chains and 179 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.159 permissionless chains, so and then tokenizing alternative assets. In this case it's the 180 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:33.200 helock loans on Figure Providence and making it interoperable. And I think Christy moy 181 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.919 from Apollo really said it well. And because you're doing it this way, 182 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:43.200 you're taking three thousand processes and reducing it to one automated one while you save 183 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:50.440 twenty percent on fees doing this, And what that ultimately means is rias will 184 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:56.200 be able to configure their portfolio in a way that's far more flexible and easy 185 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:02.200 and increase alternative assets like helocks or funds and provide access to individuals to things 186 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.600 that they never could have got access to if they want to invest in that. 187 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.720 So that's happening in the trap. Fine, There'll be many more similar 188 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.679 types of announcements coming down soon. And third, I think this is the 189 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:17.919 year and I wish I could name the names, but working some big brands 190 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:25.480 where people will no longer think about NFTs just as digital cartoons. You're going 191 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:29.960 to see functionality, whether it's five digital. In fact, we learn, 192 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.600 you know, the wallet with the block of right blockchain solution is actually a 193 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:41.159 great CRM tool. It is a way for brands to stay engaged with their 194 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:47.440 consumers. Literally, one brand that as soon as that doll leaves Walmart shelves, 195 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:52.879 I lose connection with that user. So having a five digital aspect to 196 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.919 it allows them to continue to engage and it saves them are in sales and 197 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.679 marketing. They don't have to reacquire that customer through Google or Facebook for advertising, 198 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:07.240 so instead they can manage to experience themselves. So those are three areas 199 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.440 in what I call the crossover side that are super exciting to me. You 200 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.960 know, talk a bit about that customer experience. So are you envisioning that. 201 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.079 Let's say walk into Walmart and there's a certain toy that I want to 202 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.319 get for my six year old. Maybe on that toy there's a QR code 203 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:30.079 that says can get additional experiences or unlock certain features with an NFT scan this 204 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.559 QR code to learn how is that kind of the start of the journey. 205 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:40.960 And then let's say it's running on Avalanche and absolutely you've nailed it. That'll 206 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.759 be the equivalent of like, Okay, you bought a Barbie doll and then 207 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.839 all of a sudden, the Barbie movie comes out and you are able to 208 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.720 engage with that you know user and say, hey, go to you know, 209 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.000 AMC or Regal or whatever cinema, and then once they're there, you 210 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:03.799 can create in movie experience and gamify the whole thing and make the whole experience 211 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:10.200 of owning that Barbie doll better. But at the same time you have their 212 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:15.039 information and You're able to customize solutions based on the age and age appropriate and 213 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:21.200 also interest appropriate type of experiences for that person. It's a win win for 214 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:26.960 everyone. And I'm assuming it would be the retailer that I go to their 215 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.599 app, but Avalanche is running in the back of that app powering the NFTs, 216 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:34.119 but also can be with all the retailers as well. Correct, there's 217 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:38.480 many ways to do this. In fact, you know, as that landscape 218 00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:45.599 plays itself out, there is kind of a give take right now, whether 219 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:49.799 if it's the movie theaters app in this example, or whether it is Mattel 220 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:55.440 who does you know Barbie and they have the engagement or they have a partnership 221 00:18:55.480 --> 00:19:00.880 and work together, so that is still playing itself out. But regardless of 222 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.000 a lab provides technology solutions on aval Lanche, so we will customize it to 223 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.599 anyway they want. Now, I did want to ask you about the JP 224 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:15.160 Morgan item that you brought up where they're testing the tokensation of assets an aval 225 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:19.640 lunch. You know, is that in the piloting testing phase and you know 226 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:22.359 what else can you share there as far as production, I don't know if 227 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:27.400 you can hi everyone part in the interruption. I'm Tony Edward, the founder 228 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:30.920 and host of the Thinking Crypto podcast. I have a YOUG favor to ask 229 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:34.640 you. If you haven't subscribed as yet on YouTube or the podcast platforms, 230 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:38.599 hit that subscribe button, hit the thumbs up button, hit the notification bell 231 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:44.240 on the YouTube platform and on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts, 232 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.759 please leave a five style rating and review. It supports the podcast. 233 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:51.359 It allows me to bring great quality content to you. Thank you for your 234 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.319 support, and I'll let you get back to the content. It is in 235 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:57.880 the sandbox. Montor artis zero, so it is in the testing phase. 236 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.440 There are other things that we're doing with all of those constituents, more assets 237 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:12.799 and more players coming into that call it ecosystem, but that's in progress, 238 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:17.400 so it's slowly happening. In fact, it's very similar to how we have 239 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:22.599 created another functionality which is also a test net environment called Spruce. So Spruce 240 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:30.160 test net has Wellington, t Row and wisdom Tree and they are tokenizing assets. 241 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:36.799 And it's also other partnerships like with Ave, with uh ANAMM like Trader 242 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:44.680 Joe. So it provides defil like experience in an institutionally compliant way. So 243 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.880 it you know the it's a private chain only in the sense of ky C, 244 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:56.599 a m L and accreditation as opposed to private in the traditional technical sense. 245 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.200 Now speaking of toganization, and obviously this is a big use case. 246 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:07.160 Do you think moving forward, this is the killer use case for blockchains in 247 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:08.599 addition to other things, Right, there's other use cases, but this is 248 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.359 the major one where you know, you got black Rock Larry Fink talking about 249 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:17.119 this, and they're looking to put stocks, bonds, real estate on it 250 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:23.480 and create fractionalization and global markets and secondary markets and more DeFi capabilities. Yes, 251 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.720 and yes and yes. So let me start. Is this the killer 252 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:32.519 use case? You know, tokenization is not just tokenized existing assets. It 253 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:36.759 could be tokenizing new business models. Anything has a cash flower of value to 254 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:40.400 it, so you know the value of that data of that person with the 255 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:44.839 Barbie doll. That's a different type of example. But in terms of how 256 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.599 it relates to JP morgan financial situation and trafify, I think the first real 257 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:56.119 product market fit out there has been tokenizing stable coins or currency more money markets 258 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:02.039 if you will. So you know Brevin Howard this research. I think last 259 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:07.680 year there was more settlement on chain of tokens in stable coin format than there 260 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:12.559 is in the visa network over eleven trillion a year, so there is real 261 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:17.839 product market proof out there. In fact, in the US we are spoiled 262 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:22.480 because the financial systems and rails are pretty good. So when we're doing P 263 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.160 to P, we're venmoing each other. But there if you go to like 264 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:30.000 you know, Latin America, go to other places around the world, their 265 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:34.720 version of vemo is stable coins back and forth to each other, and it 266 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:38.599 is just a more elegant solution than a Vemo. In fact, Vemo owned 267 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:45.880 by PayPal. Actually it's funny because PayPal Corporation owns PayPal Wallet and the Vemo 268 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:52.799 wallet. If you, Anthony wanted to send money from one wallet memo into 269 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:57.599 your own PayPal wallet, they actually the corporation of PayPal has to actually go 270 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:03.400 outside of their own go through a third party because they bought in them all 271 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.920 the tech stacts are so different, and then charge themselves. So if you 272 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.839 move one hundred dollars back and forth, you see one hundred dollars back and 273 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.400 forth. But it really costs paypals out a penny two pennies to actually do 274 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.039 that whole thing. Maybe even more and they are eating the costs for you. 275 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:22.799 So part of the reason why PayPal is doing the PayPal USD is because 276 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:29.400 they want to solve some technology problems and create more efficiency. So that's a 277 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.720 perfect example of tokenization in stable coins already taking off. The next step is 278 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.279 what you just said about. You know, what we're working on were tokenizing 279 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.279 alternative assets of you know, helocks or you know, we tokenize part of 280 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:47.480 a KKR fund, and possibly the tokenization of more money market fronts. Not 281 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:52.359 just Blackrock, others have also done this, Franklin Templeton for example, so 282 00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:57.680 tokenizing repos you know, broad Ridge has done this with you know, sock 283 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:03.599 gen and some other European banks where they've saved millions and millions dollars at one 284 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.640 point four trillion go through the broad Ridge system a month in terms of easier 285 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:14.720 settlement. So there is a ton of things happening in the tokenization of various 286 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.640 financial products. I think it's harder for the average person to see because it 287 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.839 is more of a B to B function and they haven't seen that chat GBC 288 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:32.680 generate AI aha moment to the individual. But B to B it's happening and 289 00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:36.559 speaking of the B two C aspect of it right where consumers is it almost 290 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.119 like they don't need to know because they're so used to Hey, does it 291 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:42.799 work? I can one click right. It's kind of like going from dial 292 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:45.680 up to broadband. I just needed to work. I don't necessarily need to 293 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:49.519 know which blockchain, but at it's working. You know, that's a great 294 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:57.480 point. I think crypto native people think differently than the average consumer. And 295 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:03.079 if you want to call this annsumerfication of blockchain and crypto, but yeah, 296 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:08.759 that is the ultimate dream for a technology provider in the early stages to become 297 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:15.759 like the underlying rails and abstract everything away so things just run smoothly so that 298 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:19.400 the end user doesn't even think about it. I think one of the things 299 00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:26.319 a theme that you'll probably see this year is better ui ux throughout the space, 300 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.599 because without that, you're not going to invite the new people who like 301 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:36.599 the quirkiness of us crypto native, who enjoy the crypto native quirkiness and hardness 302 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.799 to do things whereas they want ease they want to. This is why PayPal 303 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:42.799 subsidizes, you know, underneath the hood of a lot of things that happen 304 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.480 at PayPal. It's pretty messy, but to you the consumer, you have 305 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:52.599 no idea. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know it, there's 306 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.480 so many parallels to dial dase of the Internet and where we are a web 307 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:02.599 one point zero and and then where need to go. So it's kind of 308 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:07.960 you lose some of that sentimental aspect of it, right the early adopters. 309 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:11.319 But to get to the next billion users, you need to make it easy, 310 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:18.279 because that's such a great point. You know, the Internet Web one 311 00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.599 point oh, if you call it the original Internet was supposed to be decentralized. 312 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:27.319 It was supposed to be you know, different service different places, and 313 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.519 you know, standards started being created. Maybe it wasn't the best standard, 314 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.599 but it was a standard that evolved because it was you know, there was 315 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:42.680 enough lift off, a network effect or power loss started taking effect, and 316 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.359 things started getting you know, built on TCP, IP or whatever around it. 317 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.880 What happened was though it was still quirky and for it to really really 318 00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:59.359 take off to the masses and later part of the adoption cycle. What happened 319 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:06.400 in Web two point is these today bohemoths, but back then, centralize companies 320 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:12.799 like a Facebook or Amazon or Google started building functionality, and the user kind 321 00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:21.599 of traded off privacy for and an ownership of their own data for convenience and 322 00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:26.440 made it very useful. So I think of Web three the third generation, 323 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:33.279 almost bringing back some of the first generation Internet spirit, more decentralization. And 324 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:37.319 I'm not one of those people that say you need to like crush Amazon or 325 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:42.480 Facebook or Google because they're behemas and they're too big and they own your life. 326 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:48.440 So let's develop a solution that is as good or almost as good so 327 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.200 people have a choice. And then I think, you know, we talked 328 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:57.240 about, you know, the wallet and the blockchain is a great CRM tool. 329 00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:03.240 Think about the the Web three wallet as the inverse of cookies on your 330 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:10.160 computer. It's a profile, it's data that you own, and you get 331 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:14.079 to opt in or choose and how that data gets moved around. You don't 332 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:18.759 have to opt into that movie with the Barbie five digital nft at that you 333 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:23.680 know, AMC Regal or whatever theater, a cinema theater or whatever it is. 334 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:27.640 You choose, and then you know, companies have been around a long 335 00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:33.079 time, like Brave Browser, they allow you to choose, and if you 336 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:38.039 choose, they asked the advertisers effective pay you for your data, so but 337 00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.960 you know, in fairness, it's still clunky. Hasn't taken off yet, 338 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.759 and I think one of the themes this year will be something's going to take 339 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:51.160 off, and it's going to be because not only is the underlying infrastructure like 340 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:55.359 an avalanche layer one is ready for it, but because people are creating great 341 00:28:55.559 --> 00:29:00.240 ui ux so it's seamless to the end user. Now, on the note 342 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.559 of you know, you're controlling your data because of the blockchain and web three 343 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.960 setup, do you foresee in the future people being able to, like you 344 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.839 were saying, sell their information to businesses and earn off of that. In 345 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:18.720 addition, they're not only there, maybe their activity data as well, like 346 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:23.920 what they want to do digital fingerprint your digital fingerprint. Absolutely, I think 347 00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:29.960 that will be in the future. But before we get there. The if 348 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:37.559 it's your social information and there are some social apps you know, launching this 349 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:42.359 year that may take off and do really well and have the network effects, 350 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.680 it has to get to the point where there is that network effect, there 351 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:51.720 is a you know enough people, critical massive people, and it's got to 352 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:56.559 be user friendly enough before it can compete. And then once that happens. 353 00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:03.759 I think people will really enjoy how having sovereignty and self sovereignty and owning their 354 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:08.319 digital fingerprint and being able to use it as they choose. Now, there 355 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.279 was news I believe this from last year, the partnership between Ava Labs and 356 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:18.440 Amazon Web Services with plans to expand enterprise and government use of blockchain tech. 357 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.000 To us about that, yeah, so Amazon is a is a great partner 358 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.640 of ours. They you know, I just spoke at the Amazon Reinvent and 359 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:33.640 was fantastic because I got to meet all these Web two companies and their digital 360 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.759 heads trying to figure out how they can deploy various technology solutions using a Web 361 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:42.599 three constructs. It is a great, great conference. Obviously this year is 362 00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.880 mostly about AI, but you know, the Web three stuff was really fantastic 363 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:55.960 as well. So Amazon and US Ava Labs have a great partnership because we 364 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:03.279 helped them with emerging you know, crypto companies or developers that need compute power 365 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.880 and storage for Amazon Web Services. Amazon Web Services has a large swath of 366 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:14.799 existing users, obviously one of the largest cloud service providers, and they introduced 367 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:22.279 us to call it traditional enterprises that want to deploy blockchain enable solutions, so 368 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:27.519 it's a very synergistic relationship. You're referring to the specific government stuff. So 369 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:34.400 a lot of government agencies and government related entities have their compute power and storage 370 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:41.000 in Amazon Web Services. And since we did something with Deloitte, basically with 371 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:47.759 Deloitte and customer, FEMA, an agency Disaster Recovery Agency of the United States, 372 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:56.440 has created an application on Avalanche to enable the workflow, efficiency and moving 373 00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:04.160 of call it information in terms of claims during a disaster in real time. 374 00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:07.319 So you know, victims need money in real time if a hurricane happens and 375 00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:13.160 it's been very inefficient. De Lloyd thinks that you can literally save fifty percent 376 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:19.119 if you're deployed through their solution for FEMA. They cited Hurricane Trina and Katrina 377 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.599 in two thousand and five or six. You know, some agencies are still 378 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:28.599 paying some of these contractors that are not even doing anything anymore. It's kind 379 00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:31.759 of like your subscription to an app that you forget and you just keep paying 380 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:35.920 two dollars a month for a long time. So same thing like that. 381 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.759 Whereas a blockchain solution encoded into the rules will end at at the right time. 382 00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:46.359 So because of that experience. Amazon Web Services working with us to introduce 383 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:52.519 us to other government related agencies or companies to help create solutions for them as 384 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:58.440 well. That's great and I love that use case with Deloyde and FEMA because 385 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:01.440 there's so many aplications happening there, Like you're saying people not getting paid on 386 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:07.279 time, and then you have frauds sometimes and all kinds of things. But 387 00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:09.799 with the blockchain, it will eliminate a lot of those pitfalls. I mean 388 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:15.599 with you know, government agencies, you know there there's natural upgrade cycles that 389 00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:17.559 they need to do, so they are going to upgrade, might as well 390 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:23.640 upgrade to a web fee solution as opposed to some intermittent solution. So it's 391 00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:30.519 kind of like emerging markets. Uh, penetration of mobile phones was far faster 392 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.160 than the US because US has such a great landline. So it's a great 393 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.400 way to work and help agencies in the US. Since we're talking about government, 394 00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:44.519 are there any governments that are piloting or testing CBDCs or stable coins? 395 00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.559 On Avalanche we talked about stable coins already a little bit. I think that 396 00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:54.119 is clearly a product market fit type of situation. CBDCs are two types there's 397 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:59.680 the retail and there is the call it the B two B or the wholesale 398 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.119 kind. You know, I'm very torn on CBDC. You're taking the best 399 00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:10.519 of blockchain technology, removing the sometimes removing the transparency, making it closed, 400 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:16.679 and enabling governments to leverage the technology, and making things more centralized in many 401 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:21.639 ways. So a lot of thought needs to be put into it. I 402 00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:28.119 do think that there will be CBDCs at various countries that use the technology for 403 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:32.920 their benefit. I just hope that there's also a decentralized version. Maybe that 404 00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.960 is bitcoin, maybe that is you know, stable coins, whatever it is 405 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:45.880 that allows individuals to maintain a good balance of help, privacy, and freedom 406 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:52.360 while not doing any illsted activity. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, 407 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.159 and that's I know, a lot of debate happening here in the United States. 408 00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:00.159 At least. I'm hoping it can align to the US Constitution where to 409 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:04.119 privacy and our rights are maintained. But you know, hard to tell what's 410 00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:07.800 going to happen in other countries as these get rolled out, and hopefully the 411 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:13.440 US has a lot to lose with US if others to do things. And 412 00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:19.039 you know, because the dollar is like the medium of exchange for sixty to 413 00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:22.760 seventy percent of the trade in the US. You know, they need to 414 00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:25.559 think about it. What happens if it becomes some sort of stable coin that 415 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:31.480 becomes the medium of exchange around the world. Yeah, that's and yeah, 416 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:35.880 there's so many complications there with the future of the US dollar and as a 417 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:42.280 reserve currency and so forth. Now, tell us about interoperability with other blockchains 418 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.679 and which you know, if you can tell us the top of your head, 419 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:46.840 because maybe it might be a lot, But tell us about that. 420 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:51.880 Well, you know, we believe in a multi chain world. We don't 421 00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:53.800 think it's going to be a winner take all type of thing. It's going 422 00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:59.519 to be a you know, not many many, but it will be a 423 00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:06.360 select rout that are able to provide the functionality and have the technology innovation that's 424 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:13.800 necessary to carry on daily transactions at necessary speed or scale. But we're very 425 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:20.760 I mean, first of all, Avalanche is as an EVM, so it's 426 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.840 ethere incompatible assets can move back and forth. We've done three or four things 427 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:31.840 actually Alva lapse a company to help Avalanche be interoperable with other chains. One 428 00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:40.360 is there are definitely bridges that connect Avalanche the blockchain to other chains. The 429 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.400 wallets that are being created are also interoperable, and the sub nets that we 430 00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:52.199 talked about earlier, they are also interoperable with each other. So everything is 431 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.920 set up so that the sub nets can talk to each other, can talk 432 00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.960 to the Avalanche seat chain, and then can also talk to if you will. 433 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:07.960 So I think ultimately this is also why JP Morgan and Apollo and Providence 434 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:14.920 or Figure want to figure out a way to do that project with Avalanche and 435 00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:16.960 other players. With Layer zero was in there. I think ACCE law was 436 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:22.239 in there as well, because that's where you you know, in this world 437 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.840 of tokenized assets, you need liquidity, and if you have just the siloed 438 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.039 you know, ponds, if you will, you're not connecting them, you 439 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.280 won't have as much liquidity as you need. So I think it's super important 440 00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:38.039 that you do have interoperability. Now, you've touched on quite a few things 441 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:42.000 that will be coming this year. Anything else you want to highlight that's on 442 00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:46.159 your roadmap for twenty twenty four, right, So you know, there's two 443 00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:50.960 ways I look at a roadmap. There's the technology roadmap and there is the 444 00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:58.559 call it business collaboration partnerships, and there's also internal efforts as well. So 445 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.719 the technology room map we talked about a few of them already. There's a 446 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:10.320 thing called Teleporter that will enhance the interoperability of subnets to subnet that's super important. 447 00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:19.840 Then there is we talked about bricks, bricks and hyper SDK and also 448 00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:24.960 firewood that will allow the large scale transactions. And then there's also an effort 449 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:31.920 in place to minimize the validator requirements so that you know, more people can 450 00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:37.440 validate at a cheaper costs. So those are three on the technology side down 451 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:42.679 I'm super excited about in the next quarter to two quarters. On the business 452 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:49.440 development side, number one thing is to get those eighty plus sub nets live. 453 00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:53.800 Working with those developers, give them the solutions they need to take it 454 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:59.360 live. So there are some gaming companies we talked about earlier, Triple A 455 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:05.599 publishers like Gozilla, Shrapnel TSM is one of the largest esports wallet companies out 456 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:08.239 there. Those are things that we're very excited. Unfortunately, in Traffy I 457 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:15.239 can't talk about because they are very heavy on the NDAs, but there are 458 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.920 other called it Traffy type crossover solutions similar to what we did with Japan, 459 00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:24.320 Morgan, Apollo and others that are super exciting, you know, big picture, 460 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:32.480 they all revolve around tokenization of alternative assets or making settlement much faster, 461 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:38.159 and they're using the benefits there to be able to provide services for more people. 462 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:45.159 And then lastly, again brands are also very specific with their NDAs. 463 00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:51.159 But we talked about this a little bit. There are some creative ways where 464 00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.079 people are going to use the NFT so that it's no longer just from a 465 00:39:55.119 --> 00:40:04.039 web two perspective, negative connotation for some digital tun real utility and uh, 466 00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:07.119 you know, engagement with their customers. Yeah, that's great, and I 467 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:10.239 think utility is a key there with the NFT market. Don't get me wrong. 468 00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:14.559 There's a collectible aspect to it, but I have no problem with people 469 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:16.280 who want to collect I mean, back in the day, I'm sure people 470 00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:21.559 thought collecting baseball cards were silly and and strange as well, and why should 471 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:24.639 it be value to baseball cards? Yeah, anyway, that's all. That's 472 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:30.840 a different philosophical debate. But I am excited for brands that will be using 473 00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:35.360 this construct to create use cases. And lastly, we didn't get to finish 474 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:40.000 talking about what we're doing internally. You know, last year we created a 475 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:47.079 great dev rel team and we've seen developers come on hackathons. And there's a 476 00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:52.840 program we're launching called Codebase, which is an accelerator program for developers to come 477 00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:58.639 in and get help from all the LASS people and create. You know, 478 00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:01.320 it's kind of like model it self, a little bit to Why Combinator, 479 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:07.679 and but it's going to be very very good for creating crypto data developers to 480 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:13.039 launch stuff on Avalanche. That's great, and I love that you seem very 481 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.960 organized and you broke it down where it's you know, easy to understand what 482 00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:21.719 you guys doing internally versus just how I think about everything that's compartmentalized because we 483 00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.280 are trying to attack two markets at once, if you will. For sure. 484 00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:29.719 A question just came to mind, what are your thoughts on the conversions 485 00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.840 of AI and blockchain, given that AI is on the rise, we're seeing 486 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.920 deep fakes and I think blockchain maybe a solution. There are you guys exploring 487 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:45.639 use cases solutions around that? So we are working with third parties that are 488 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.119 you know right now. I think reality is AI will help Web three first 489 00:41:52.239 --> 00:42:00.320 before Web three can help AI. I think AI will enable faster and better 490 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:06.360 coding in smart contracts. It can do a lot of the security checks for 491 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:12.920 smart contracts that is necessary in the space, and it can also help analyze 492 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.519 on chain data much better and faster. I think that is really the first 493 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:22.360 step. Watching is even earlier first step. I mean even us internally we've 494 00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:27.360 been using things like Dali and saving money to create you know, images and 495 00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:30.760 logos, et ceteras, and there's other applications who've been using so that you 496 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.760 know, applying it to daily use cases. That's really the first step. 497 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:38.519 Second step is what we just talked about, helping create better con smart contracts, 498 00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:44.639 secure smart contracts, analyzing on chain data. One of the problems with 499 00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:46.760 AI going forward is what you talked about, and this is when Web three 500 00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:52.480 will help AI in my opinion. You know, you need provenance of that 501 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:55.840 data set. You need providence of the language, large language models, and 502 00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:02.159 a track record that can all be done through a blockchain enaval solution, and 503 00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:07.400 that will help AI in the long run. People trust AI, so de 504 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:15.639 fakes and stuff like that will at least be known for the user. Great 505 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.880 point. I love how you phrase that that you know AI will have to 506 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:25.000 help web three and crypto initially, but then vice versa as as we progress. 507 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:29.920 I love that. Let's look call the crypto market at large with the 508 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:32.880 time we have left. What are your thoughts on the big Win's BODYTF launches 509 00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:37.159 and what impact that we'll have on the future of this industry. Well, 510 00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.920 I think it's a great success. You know, I'm an operator, but 511 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:46.199 I can tell you from operator's perspective. Just having Blackrock in their infidelity in 512 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:52.440 there, the tone of conversation for bizdev, the partnerships, whether the enterprises, 513 00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:57.719 the traft five has already changed. There is a sense that there is 514 00:43:57.880 --> 00:44:01.679 new leadership and there is a horseman from respective people in the space. So 515 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.559 it enables the call it adoption from a technology perspective, not just from an 516 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:13.440 asset perspective. And I think it's going to take time, but the early 517 00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:19.519 numbers already showed some great success. And really I think what people will be 518 00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:24.880 talking about in a few months on the asset side will be ethereum and other 519 00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:32.800 alternative assets and when those will be available in a more easily usable form. 520 00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.880 You know, that's form factor right there. The the you know, the 521 00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:39.320 ETF or ETP. Frankly, it's ETP, not a ETF. It's a 522 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:45.440 big distinguish. It's important to distinguish that has already been helpful, and then 523 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:51.519 that creates adoption when those users first experience what that means, and then they 524 00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:55.559 start researching and understanding what the technology is about. I would love for them 525 00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:01.039 to go in and actually go into the ecosystem avoval engine, tried trader Joe, 526 00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:07.480 or try avin for yield and and lend and borrow or one day by 527 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:14.360 a tokenized helock loan in a more efficient manner. So I think that's the 528 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:20.480 first step. And I think it's already great at creating called endorsement from trust 529 00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.679 to figures so that you can cross over and grow the adoption cycle. M 530 00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:29.360 And one of the things that we're still waiting for in the US is full 531 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:34.199 comprehensive crypto regulations and that is balanced. Of course, there's still a lot 532 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.199 of debate happening with the SEC. There's a couple of bills in the House 533 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:40.519 as well as Senate. What is your outlook as you know someone who's building 534 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.760 in the industry, and are you optimistic we may see something either this year 535 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:50.320 or next year. I'm optimistic we'll see something next year. I think there's 536 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:54.679 a lot of things going on this year. You know, until there's a 537 00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:00.000 settled you know, less volatile in terms of like who's who's running the show, 538 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.760 it's going to be hard. There's a lot of other things on people's 539 00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:08.760 minds in Congress. But I think if there's one area that may come sooner 540 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:12.920 than other areas, and we touched upon this, it'll be some sort of 541 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:15.639 stable coin legislation. I think there was, you know, I read the 542 00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:22.800 headlines today. There was a senator or congressman somewhere today in the US I 543 00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.599 mentioned, you know, they want to push along their stable coin regulation. 544 00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:34.440 I think because it is an area that people realize is getting a huge adoption 545 00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.119 around the world, the US may be forced to move faster. And also 546 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:43.039 we talked about this earlier, like the medium exchange is the dollar right now 547 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.639 for global trade. The US needs to be thinking about this and not fall 548 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:52.280 behind that in case something else comes up. Yeah, great, John, 549 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.239 final item here before we hit the wrap up questions. I'm still struggling with 550 00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:59.079 DeFi. I believe in DeFi, but I'm seeing, you know, there's 551 00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.360 still these exploits that are happening. Where we do you feel in the timeline 552 00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:07.239 and you know what is it is? Help I phrasing this right? You 553 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:12.079 know what's the iteration? What's the timeline for? When we get past a 554 00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:16.239 lot of these exploits happening in DeFi So I think if you look at dollars 555 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:22.559 and you look at exploits, they are decreasing over time. Ironically, when 556 00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:28.159 you have these massive growth in twenty twenty twenty twenty one, security audits and 557 00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.679 other things probably and the go to market of some of these DAPs were probably 558 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:37.679 rushed because so in a downturn actually allows a lot of the new developers to 559 00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:44.719 take their time and you know, make sure their code is better and secure, 560 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:49.559 and the audit you know, firms out there, security audit firms out 561 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:52.360 there have fewer clients and are able to take more time. So it's already 562 00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.239 decreasing. Like we said earlier, there will be very surely, I think 563 00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:01.760 an AI enable solution to accelerate that even more so it's already happening. But 564 00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:05.800 there's another path to this as well. And this is what we talked about 565 00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:09.840 with the Spruce Network, with Wellington Trow and Wisdom Tree which is basically an 566 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:15.199 institutionalized version of DeFi, where if you can kyc AML, you can do 567 00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:21.880 the same functionality as you would in a traditional DeFi, but with different types 568 00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:25.800 of assets in a token ized form. So I think that's why it's so 569 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:32.639 important to continue to push on the crossover side, because that's another solution to 570 00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:37.880 making this space really usable for people and not worry about these you know, 571 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:45.400 illicit issues and you know responses from bad actors. Yeah, I think to 572 00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:50.280 your point, like patients, I think definitely need to hear and the builders 573 00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:54.960 who are doing these things not rushing through and taking their time, and we'll 574 00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:58.519 get there. I just we'll get there. I mean, you just don't 575 00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:02.679 know when they're parallels with the original Internet too. I mean, in the 576 00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:07.840 early days, the Internet itself was full of scams and frauds and illicit activity. 577 00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:13.760 It was not until you know, Al Gore claims he invented the Internet. 578 00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:16.000 He didn't really invent the Internet. What he did was he pushed the 579 00:49:16.039 --> 00:49:22.960 bill through Congress that created standards on how commerce will happen on the Internet, 580 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:29.880 and that really led to legitimate players coming into the space and using the Internet 581 00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.599 so to speak. Same is happening in Web three. Yeah, you're absolutely 582 00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.599 right, because I remember certain things I did as a teenager Web one point 583 00:49:37.719 --> 00:49:43.280 zero, which yeah, I can't stay, but it was. The point 584 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:47.440 is I was able to exploit certain things because it was in its early phases, 585 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:52.800 early iteration, but it improved over time. So maybe I helped to 586 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:54.440 improve the security on the Internet. I don't know. I'm sure he did, 587 00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.960 all right, wrap up questions, If you could create your own metaverse, 588 00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:04.000 what would the theme be? Okay, so I'm very focused on the 589 00:50:04.119 --> 00:50:07.559 underlying technology and providing that. So I wouldn't create my own metaverse. We 590 00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:12.280 want to invite other people to create metaverses, you know, working at companies 591 00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.960 like Lamina one that are creating a great metaverse experience. On top of Avalanche, 592 00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:21.960 we're working with other third parties that are creating metaverses. I can say 593 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.480 the one that would be interested in using would be the one that creates the 594 00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:34.079 experience that is as most similar in a digital construct it is in your traditional 595 00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:36.519 life. I don't know what that is, but once I see it, 596 00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:43.239 i'll know. Wrapping Fire questions. Favorite food. You know, I'm a 597 00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:50.039 very simple guy. I generally like just steaks, potatoes. I think when 598 00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.519 I want to be healthy though, and I'm trying to become more and more 599 00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:57.360 healthy, it's not the steaks. It's more of I wouldn't say vegan, 600 00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:02.559 but like I will have avocado for protein and things like that. Favorite musician 601 00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:10.159 or band ooh Pearl Jam. You know that's someone a group that I've liked 602 00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:14.199 for a long long time. I don't even know if some of the younger 603 00:51:14.199 --> 00:51:19.800 audience will know them, but there are legendary rockers. Oh yeah, favorite 604 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:24.239 movie huh, Well, it's changed over time, but you know, the 605 00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:29.519 last one that I thought was incredible was, and it's the first time I 606 00:51:29.639 --> 00:51:31.480 watched it in a movie theater in a long time, was Top Gun Maverick. 607 00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:37.599 And I think it's great because very rarely do you see a sequel that 608 00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:40.639 you can argue and say is better than the original, and a sequel that 609 00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:45.559 comes out thirty plus years later. Yeah, it's very good. Favorite book, 610 00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:52.960 well right now reading. A friend of mine wrote Web three, Alex 611 00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:58.239 Tapscott, so I'm actually helping him on his web tour. Alex and his 612 00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:04.960 father have done a lot of good writing and the space to help educate everyone 613 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.840 in the space. Way back when for ten plus years Alex in this book 614 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:14.599 really does a great job of talking about future uses of Web three and the 615 00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:17.039 benefits of that. So I would encourage people to check that book out. 616 00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:24.360 Another book that I'm reading right now is by a Stanford professor, Matt Abrams. 617 00:52:24.519 --> 00:52:30.760 You know, Think Faster, Talk Smarter. It's basically a communications book. 618 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.159 And you know, as part of as a leader, as a as 619 00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:38.519 a president of a company, you have to know how to communicate people and 620 00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:43.599 understand other people. Especially if I'm trying to cross over two and Web three, 621 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:46.320 you need to understand the mindset of others. I will definitely check out 622 00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:50.920 that book. That sounds pretty good. And finally, what do you do 623 00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:54.000 for a hobby? Oh? I love sports, So, like I said 624 00:52:54.039 --> 00:53:01.800 earlier, I still am very active in playing tennis, lifting, weights doing 625 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:07.760 I played a lot of golf in the summer when when it's warm, so 626 00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:14.400 racquetball sports as well as weightlifting. And you know, during COVID, I 627 00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:19.639 wrote a lot of peloton so I continued to ride you know, stationary bicycles. 628 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:22.719 John, absolute pleasure of chatting with you. I'm excited for the future 629 00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:27.719 updates of Avalanche this year. Thank you for joining me, Thank you,