Good morning, monsters, and happy Monday to everybody out there. I hope
the world is treating you well today. And uh, I know there's a
lot of hurricanes and stuff happening out there on the coast, so I hope
everybody out there is staying safe and dry and uh doing the best that you
guys all can out there. So UH, with that being said, UH,
let's let's move on to what we got here. So, uh,
we got a big weekend coming up here for myself up here in Upper Michigan.
We have an event this weekend, and uh this weekend. Also,
Uh, there's there's a lot of events all of the country, but some
of them you just can't get to. And we got an event coming up
here that is not only an in person event, but it is also a
virtual event. So I want you guys all to go ahead and check this
out. Are you ready to uncover the mysteries of Bigfoot? Join us for
Squatch khn Idaho twenty twenty three. This year, we're bringing the magic directly
to your screen, or join us in person witness the world premiere of the
enhanced Paul Freeman Bigfoot footage. Doug Hicheck discovered a secret within this enhanced video
you'll have to see to believe. Here from an all star panel of Bigfoot
experts like doctor Jeffrey Meldrum, Cliff Barockman, Brian King Sharp, and Michael
Freeman. But that's not all. Get exclusive online bonuses such as Bigfoot themed
wallpapers, a Bigfoot coloring book, an interactive Bigfoot quiz, Squatch Nutfield Guide,
get a copy of the Freeman Bigfoot Files ebook, and more. Whether
you attend in person or watch it live online, you'll be part of an
unforgettable experience. Don't miss out on this unique opportunity. Secure your spot today
Squatch khn Idaho twenty twenty three. Step into the unknown. That's awesome,
guys. If you guys have always wanted to go to a big Foot conference
and never been able to get out there, or they don't come to your
area or so, and so, it's definitely a great opportunity to get to
watch it virtually from the comfort of your own home. So that's awesome.
That's gonna be this weekend. Virtual tickets or in person tickets available now Hanger
one dot com. Guys, If you want to see myself and my team
in person, this weekend, we are going to be at the m I
Paracon in sus Saint Marie, Michigan. There's going to be all kinds of
cool paranormal people there as well as crypti people and all kinds of vendors and
speakers and seminars. So if you guys can come up to Sue Saint Marie
this weekend for m I Paracon, and then guys, in September, we
are going to be at the Great Lakes Paranormal Conference in glenn Bula, Wisconsin.
That is another multi day event there September twenty seconds through the twenty fourth,
and then I'll be doing a presentation at the Kenosha Public Library October sixth
in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Then we go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin October fourteenth for
Milwaukee Parakhn at the Irish Cultural and Heritage Center. And of course then ladies
and gentlemen, we are going to be down at Cryptodcon once again in Lexington,
Kentucky, November eighteenth and nineteenth. It's gonna be a great time.
It's gonna be the third year that we are going to be there, so
guys, make sure that you come out and check that out and as we
go on with the show here. If you guys want to show your support
for everything here on the Untold Radio Network, here's how you can do that.
Hey, Untold Radio Network fans want exclusive perks and to support our channel,
introducing our YouTube membership program with three amazing levels. Get loyalty badges that
level up to different cryptids the longer you're a supporter. How cool is that?
You'll also get access to custom Bigfoot emojis and priority in Chat upgrade,
the backstage pass for exclusive wallpapers, photos, status updates, discounted books and
merchandise. Go all in with the Producer level for everything mentioned, plus member
shout outs. Ready for an enhanced experience? Join now, pick your membership
level and let's make this journey even more exciting together. And we have a
brand new member, Joslyn Harris became a member of our YouTube subscribers and a
member here. So thank you very much for that. We appreciate it here
on the Untold Radio Network. And now, ladies and gentlemen, all right
today, guys, my guest is Mark Marcel. He is a life long
land surveyor in Oregon and Washington. Born in nineteen sixty six, he became
and enamored with the quest of lost mysteries. While the rediscovery of the nineteen
twenty four eighte Canyon Epe Canyon Cabin is his claim to fame and infinite riches,
he continues to venture into them. I cannot read this morning, into
the mildew and dust of shadowy paper archives in search of long forgotten stories,
taking this evidence to the field to look for physical evidence of the historical monster
attacks. I'm looking forward to this man, all right, So, without
any further ado, please welcome Mark Marcel. How's it going great? Thanks
Barnaby. You should have rehearsed that a couple of times before he introduced me.
I think I gotta say too that with the end with the intro,
Man, you're you're super busy. You're you're all over the place with different
conferences and stuff, And I have to second the emotion on a couple of
things that you announced. If anyone attending virtually is great, but if anybody
can attend a conference like you. You've mentioned the lineup at at the Idaho
gig all great people, all all terrific people, Brian and Cliff and Michael.
I hung out with Michael at Pocatello, Idaho conference last year, I
think, and that's the first time I met him, and just terrific people.
So if you can attend these conferences and just chat with chat with the
guests for a little while, they're a wealth of knowledge beyond what they're just
presenting, you know, on stage. So if you can, if you
can make it, do it. Absolutely. They're all wonderful events. I
mean, we've done so many. This year. We got the opportunity to
be at the Ohio Bigfoot Conference at Salt Forks this year and that was a
great time as well. I've heard great things about that, So definitely definitely
along on going to these things. So okay, cool, Well, it's
absolute pleasure to have you on the show today. I'm looking forward to this
for talking to you. Let's start out a little bit for those of you
who don't know. I mean, I've I've heard the term land surveyor one
hundred times, you know, but can you tell us like what that entails
and how you got into that and stuff and how that's led to what you're
doing now? Oh? Sure, Well, but just a quick primer.
A land surveyor is someone that you call if you don't know where your property
corners are, to have someone come out and determine where your property corners are,
if you need a map of your property, different elevations, if you
need to divide your property, almost anything dealing with in any attractive land that
you own, Uh, that's that's what I do, and that's what I've
been doing all my life. The reason why is my dad was a land
surveyor, and I grew up just with dad being in private practice my entire
life. I think he went into private practice around sixty three. So I
was out in the woods and helping dad, you know, carrying stakes and
cutting brush for fifty cents an hour, you know, when I was a
kid, when I was like eleven or twelve years old. The reason why,
the reason why I bring it up a lot of the time dealing with
dealing with historical monster attacks, and the kind of research that I do is
that when when someone calls me for a boundary survey, or call any land
surveyor, the very first thing that a land surveyor needs to do is a
tremendous amount of document research. You need to find what previous surveyors have done
in the past, what previous landowners have done in the past, and any
anything you can, you know, highway records, land records, railroad records,
anything. And then once you get that treasure trove of document research,
then you have to take that information and try to find the field evidence in
the ground of that. As an example, a surveyor set an iron pipe
in nineteen twenty way out in the woods, and you need to survey too
that. You need to measure too that in order to determine someone else's property
boundaries. Right, So you have to physically go out and find that iron
pipe in the ground and measure to it. Is it the right iron pipe?
Is it not the right iron pipe? It is it gone? Is
there other field evidence of what took place in these previous surveys on the ground?
Right? So the way that that relates to Bigfoot is that I grew
up in sort of this renaissance, if you will, of the of the
early nineteen seventies, mid seventies, of this of this revitalization of the unknown
mysteries of the world, you know, and I ate it all up when
I was a kid, Like lights in the sky, you know, ghosts,
you know, monsters in the woods, you know pyramids, you know,
Atlantis, all that kind of stuff, and I started to I'll,
I've always read a lot about that, which is the best thing that one
can do is to read about it, read about it in a physical book,
you know, because the book is an interactive experience. So I started
reading up on all this and started to come across these strange, strange,
old stories. And it wasn't until I got into adulthood, maybe about fifteen
twenty years ago, where I came across some of these stories. Some of
these stories I've known about pretty much all my life, Pacific Northwest stories,
and I started to think, you know, some of these events took place
many years ago. You know, time is relative. Something that happened in
nineteen sixty one may seem like a long time ago to some people, but
it really isn't. And so the idea of something happening happened one hundred years
ago or two hundred years ago, it's really not that long ago at all.
So on some of these older stories, I started to think, well,
what if there's some sort of physical evidence that could still be remaining regarding
these old stories of these mysteries. And I just ended up taking some of
the well known stories, some of the lesser known stories, and re researching
it, like I had never heard about it before, nobody's ever heard about
it before, gathering as much document evidence as I can, and then seeing
if there's any physical evidence left. And so that's basically one of the first
big ones that I did. What's the nineteen twenty four canyon attack? Awesome?
Awesome? I have been kind of following along on this. I know
you and Cliff had just gone out there recently for the anniversary use the ninety
the anniversary I think it is ninety nine. Yeah, yep, awesome.
Can you give us a little bit of background about the Ape Canyon incident,
why it's important, and the story behind it, and then we can kind
of talk about your work and what you've done with it. Oh sure,
yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The whole thing started about nineteen eighteen
or so, where there was this group of miners in Kelso Longview, Washington,
which was a pretty burgeoning going milltown. It's it's it's timber, timber
country, and so it's a hot milltown being right on the Columbia River,
so it's good for export. And there are these group of guys almost all
family members. There was a core group of about five men. About a
couple of other folks had helped them off and on. But this the head
of the family was this guy named Marian Smith, and he was about sixty
years old, and he had grown up in the big timber working them and
up on Mount St. Helens. He knew that there was gold up on
the mountain. He wasn't a young buck anymore, so he wasn't like working
hard full time as if he was twenty two years old. And he decided
to start poking his way up along the Lewis River east of Woodland and up
into Mount St. Helens looking for gold. And there are gold claims up
there, a few down lower in lower elevation. They tend to be more
plastic claims of where people are building sluice boxes and that kind of thing.
But he was looking for gold up there. He took along a family friend
named John Peterson, his cousin Gabe la Fever, his son in law Fred
Beck, and then a little bit later took his son Leroy Perry Smith up
there, and after hunting and pecking a little bit, in nineteen twenty two,
they finally laid claim to a mine on a Mount Saint Helen's called the
Vendor White Mine, and this mine was way up there in a very precarious
in a very precarious location. At the time. Really the closest road where
you could park was maybe about five or six miles away. And this is
way up at the timber line of Mount Saint Helen's, like around four thousand,
forty five hundred elevation, and you can only go up there during certain
parts of the year because there's just too much snow in the winter, so
it was kind of a limited time for a working They started working the mine
in twenty two and apparently according to Smith and Fredbeck, the essays were pretty
good. They were getting gold out of this mine. I had talked to
some people before before the mountain erupted. They had seen that mine and it
went in about seventy five feet or so. So these guys were really working
it hard. In the first two years, they were just tent camping on
the other side of Pumis Butte and setting up their tent and bringing in their
stuff every year and going up and over the butte to work the mine.
Well. While they were up there, off and on, they would hear
these high pitched whistling sounds coming from a ridge top at night, and they
didn't know what it was. You got to remember that, especially the older
guys like la Fever and Smith Peterson. These guys had been out in the
woods all of their life and they had seen pretty much everything that there was
to see, but they weren't exactly sure what these sounds were. It wasn't
elk, it wasn't It wasn't not any sound that they had heard before,
particularly since there would be a high pitched whistling sound and then from another ridge
top there would be a response call, and would go back and forth for
a little while at night. At one point in twenty two or twenty three,
Leroy Smith, the youngest, was going to down to a stream,
down to a bit of a sandbar and to scrub out pots and pans,
and he found this very very large human like print in the sand. The
odd thing about it is that it was only a singular print. There wasn't
a trackway leading up to it or bleeding away from it. These sounds were.
These sounds were starting to get kind of a little disturbing, and Smith
had finally ordered the rest of the guys in the camp to not leave.
Nobody leaves the camp without being armed. You know, you need to take
your side arm rifle with you something, because they would hear all these other
strange sounds up there. Despite being a little bit spooked, they decided that
the essays were good enough at the end of nineteen twenty three. When they
returned in the spring of twenty four, they were going to build a cabin
right by the mine in the early spring, and that's what they did,
a cabin to hold their tools a few stores over the winter, so they
didn't have to slept their stuff six miles back and forth every year. So
when they returned in nineteen twenty four, they started building a cabin very close
to the mine. They had blasted out a small shelf and started building a
ten by twenty foot cabin. And it was just before the fourth of July
in nineteen twenty four. They weren't working on the cabin twenty four seven.
They were working it off and on while they were still working on the mine,
and Smith and Beck were going to a nearby spring and to where their
water source was and about seventy five hundred feet from the cabin. And while
they're going down there back seas from behind a cedar tree, this large hair
covered bipedal creature peeking out from behind the tree. Well, the things they
had kind of got keyed up and wound up a little bit. So the
first thing that Fred does is pick three shots at the creature, and the
story was that you could see the bark skinning along the side of the cedar
tree, apparently right into the animal. They go back. They go down
to the tree and there's no animal. There's no blood, there's no hair,
there's no nothing. And they can see going up the other side,
up the draw. They see the creature going up the draw looking behind them
and just keeps on keeps on going. The guys go back to Longview,
Kelso for the fourth of July and they tell their family about it, and
a lot of their friends and family couldn't really kind of square the information about
these large hair ape like creatures up on the mountain, because the beck Smith
family were known to be quite honest, square good guys. But they're coming
down off the mountain with these stories of monsters up there. So they return
to the cabin after the fourth of July, and they were only up there
for about a week because you know, I think things broke loose really really
quickly. The guys were in the mine and Leroy was coming back from the
spring and he hears something rattling in the bushes and he takes this creatures coming
out from the bushes right by the cabin. And you have to realize that
the topography of this cabin site is incredibly steep. I mean it's it's like
incredibly steep, so it's really limited flat area. So I was thinking that
with conditions on the ground today, this creature was only like fifty feet seventy
feet away from him. Takes shots into the creature and the creature just turns
around, goes back into the bush. On Thursday, Thursday, July the
tenth of nineteen twenty four, the guys are in the cabin. LeRoy's coming
back again from the spring and a creature comes out from the bush. Leroy
takes one shot into it. The guys hear the shots and they come out
of the cabin fully armed and they're blasting at this creature. Marian Smith estimated
about sixteen rounds went into this creature and the last shot was taken by Beck
and the creature. It's just right on the edge of the canyon. The
cabin is like right pretty much right on the precipice, going down about two
hundred feet, and Beck took the last shot and the creature either fell or
the creature crouched down and climbed down into the canyon. At that point,
it's getting to be kind of dusk ish that night on Thursday, and the
guys were talking, you know, this is weird. We we got to
get the hell out of here. You know, in the morning, we're
gonna leave. At that point, something very very big and hard hits the
side of the cabin enough to knock out a piece of log chinking between the
logs, and the guys look through the hole and they can see six or
seven of these big, shadowy creatures going around the cabin. The creatures are
starting to get up on the roof, pounding their way in. They're throwing
rocks in there. Later I found out that one of the creatures had been
attempting to dig underneath the foundation, beating on the door. So the guys
started tear apart the bumps and they blockade the door and they start shooting through
the roof. This happens all night long. They build up the fire through
the ventilator cap and they're building up the fire and they're like, please,
please leave us alone. The attack happens all night on the cabin and they're
One of the things is that Beck said later, it's like, you go
away, and we'll go away and we'll all be happy in the morning.
And in the morning sun comes up, it's all quiet, and they open
up the door and the outside is entirely litted, was littered with rocks and
these very very large prints ranging between fourteen to seventeen inches or so, and
it was grab your gun and grab your tobacco, and let's get the hell
out of here. And they walked back to the truck six miles or so.
When they get back into town, they do on that Friday, they
do what I would have done. It's like, I need a drink.
So they went to the local bar called the Bluelocks Tavern, and they on
the walkout, they were saying, don't tell anybody, they're going to think
we're crazy. But how can you not talk about it after such a traumatic
event. So it they talked to the bartender about it, and then word
got out into the newspapers, and we had the associated press wire at that
time in the newspapers, and it just spread like wildfire across across the newspapers.
I found it as far east as Missouri and up into Canada and down
down around San Diego where this story where the story is spread within about three
or four or five days. Wow, that's aggressive, that is that's a
fantastic story. So now going back to what we talked about. First,
you know, with your your history of land surveying and looking up these these
important places, what you have here is an amazing story, you know,
and and it's in the newspaper and it was told and but again, you
know, even if these guys are very reliable, very true, how do
you know that this isn't a fabrication? And then this is where you come
in, is you were actually able to go out and find this location.
Can you tell us how you you found where it was and the things that
led up to that. Well, the fact, the fascinating thing is that
the Ape Kenyon story is sort of like you know, I hate to use
this word, but one of the Bigfoot classics, like the Albert Osman story,
or maybe it's maybe you want to say maybe the Jerry Crew discovery of
the of the print in northern California. But it's it's a big Foot classic,
right, and so it's been told, it been retold. Fred Beck
published a book called I Thought the Eight Men of Mouth Saint Helen's in sixty
seven, I believe, along with his son and Ronald Ronald Beck. And
for the most part, the retelling has been somewhat consistent between all the different
versions, you know, there hasn't been a lot of variation a little bit.
But the thing when I got into it, it is a fascinating story.
So I started to think because of my proximity, I was just living
in Vancouver, Washington, about an hour and a half from from this area,
from Eight Canyon, and I started to think, well, you know,
maybe maybe there's more document evidence besides just the retelling in a big Foot
book or in a book like Weird Washington, or even Fred Beck's book.
Maybe there's more to it. So I started getting back into the documentary evidence,
the mining record, the newspaper record, death records, and I found
out that there was this massive amount of information, document evidence of this time,
of this event that was that was contemporary documentation of it. I mean
there were there were Almost every miner was interviewed within about two or three days
of the event, and so there was a tremendous amount of information. One
of the one of the greatest articles was a was an article two party by
a sports reporter named Jack Gregory out of the Oregonian, and he he didn't
interview any of the miners, but he took a two day trip to go
up to the site, down the slope, down to the cabin, spent
the night there with a deputy sheriff out of Collett's County and his son,
and then came back home through Castle Rock, and he published a two part
series within about a week after the attack. Well, what Gregory did is
that he didn't he didn't give me explicit directions of how to get to the
cabin in nineteen twenty four, But there were plenty of clues, you know,
because he described how he got up there and now he got down to
the cabin, what he saw, that kind of thing. And he fortunately
took some pictures and he took two images of the cabin of the longside and
the short side, and in there you could see some other features in and
around the cabin site. And so with his description with the mining record,
there was never a map of the mine. It was just a small written
description that there basically is a mine here. But there was enough clues about
where that cabin and mine could have been enough for me to start thinking that
this area may have been spared from the biggest, the first nineteen eighty eruption
of the mountain. So in twenty eleven I started taking all my basketfull of
clues, and I started going up there and looking for it, and just
every two or three times the year. It's not easy to get to and
it's incredibly dangerous where you're going up up Pumics Butte, which is about two
or three hundred feet tall, and then about down about nine hundred feet along
really a precipitous slope full of scree and loose rock and all this jazz.
But so I'd be poking my way down a little bit more each trip looking
for any kind of evidence. The biggest piece of evidence that I was looking
for is that in one of Gregory's photos you can see the stumps that were
freshly cut in order to fall the trees to build the cabin. And most
people know particularly it's actually used in land serving that trees can be used as
land corners or references to land corners. And even if the tree is cut
down, when the tree starts bleeding sap to a degree it starts, it
starts preserving that stump that you just cut down. The point being as stumps
can last for a very very long time in the woods, and particularly up
there where it's it's nearly alpine conditions where there's a lot of snow, but
comes springtime the snow melts and the rest of it's it's rather arid up there
at that time, So stumps can last for a very long time up there.
So as I'm poking my way along, I knew that if I could
find stumps, I knew I would be close because I talked to the head
archaeologist at the National Forest Guy named Rick McClure, he since retired, and
he confirmed that that limited area had never been commercially logged. It was just
way too dangerous. But there are very massive trees down there that survived the
eruption. Near this area, there's a Douglas fur that's golly, it must
be about seven feet in diameter or so, so it's way pre eruption.
And so on twenty thirteen, some friends. I had never gone with anybody
else, but in twenty thirteen some friends were bugging me. I was talking
about it like all the time, like a midlife crisis, and they're like,
okay, can you take us? Can you take us? And I'm
like okay, okay, okay. So five of us go up there and
we get up to the top of the bee ready to go down, and
frankly, the rest of my friends kind of chicken out because it's too because
it looks way too dangerous it is. But there was one friend named Gabe
who did go with me down to the bottom and we get to an area
where I hadn't been before, and it was just this monstrous, huge patch
of vine maple. And he's gives a little bit in front of me.
He's only in front of me, like thirty or fifty feet. We can
just talk to each other. I can't see Gabe because of the vine maple,
but Gabe's like Mark, I just found a stump, and then we
found another stump, and then we found another stump and break out the metal
detector, and we ended up that day finding two sides of the cabin foundation.
It was only about four inches five inches underground. We found the foundation
of the cabin with the nails still driven into it, found one of the
miner spoons, found some baling wire, which I think I've recently identified in
another photograph of the interior of the cabin. So we started finding all this
stuff. So that's when we found it in twenty twenty thirteen, and then
in twenty fourteen we found some other some other items. We found a broken
off buck saw blade about eight ten inches long or so, where the miners
had broke gonna saw trying to build the cabin. So that's that's basically the
short story. Sorry, that is the short story of how the cabin was
found in twenty thirteen. So I again, I've been kind of following along
this stuff and that, like, there's nothing really left of the cabin anymore.
It's just the foundation. As you said, right when when you're out
there, you wouldn't know that you're at the cabin site. It's just trees
and rocks. Yeah, And and honestly, on the recent trip that we
did last July with Keith and Cliff and Brad and I, the mountain that
the mountain is starting to swallow the cabin site. It was. It was
just the right place, right time Cliff and I were talking about it.
It was sort of the right place at right time in that period of twenty
twelve, twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, where I just happened
to make it there at the right time, because if I went down there
today, finding those clues that I did find ten years ago would be a
whole heck of a lot more difficult to say, Okay, I'm going to
start looking here. Some of the some of the stumps are actually like disappearing.
The whole site is getting seriously overgrown. I was planning on Brad and
I were planning on spending the night down there at the cabin site. But
there simply isn't any flat spot anymore. You can barely see where the cabin
was. So, yeah, you're out there. You would without without without
really working hard, you would have zero idea that that's where the cabin is.
Wow. Do you have any like a place where people can see pictures
or any video of what you found out there? Uh? Yeah, Well
I'm I'm a technological dinosaur, So fortunately I have a very good friend named
Ty and he has recently made a it's like brands bank and new made a
website for me and it's a monster history dot net and there's some information on
there. There's going to be more information on there as well. And then
you can just find me on Facebook too, because I'm always blathering on about
Bigfoot and Ape Canyon and other historical monster projects as well. So yeah,
I always I always have stuff up. Awesome, awesome. All we are
going to take a really quick break here for station identification and guys, if
you have any questions about any historical Bigfoot encounters or monster attacks, including Ape
Canyon, get them on the comments there, put them in all caps and
then I can see them. And also a great way that you can get
that is super chats, and this will tell you all about that. Show
your support for the Untold Radio Network family of shows and join in on the
conversation by using superstickers and super chats on YouTube. Got a question you want
answered, ask it live vias super chat and get real time responses from our
shows. Knowledgeable hosts and guests. Help keep the Untold Radio Network shows running
strong. We need your support. Send your super chats and stickers. Now
awesome, We are back here with Mark Marcel. He is a land surveyor
and bigfoot expert and expert expert historian. And yeah, I caught myself there.
I I it's it's morning here, man, even if it's noon.
I just woke up. We're we're going strong here. That's cool, that's
cool. You know, there was one thing, Barnet that that I thought
about during the during the break there, about catching up on some of the
projects that I'm doing. And i'd have to give a couple of plugs here
to some really good friends who I'm helping and they're helping me as well,
Cliff as part of he and Melissa's museum, the North American Big Center.
Of course, you know, the NABC does Patreon stuff, and Cliff and
I are working on Patreon n ABC film on Ape Canyon, and so I'm
going to recommend that, and he and I did some filming up there,
and and so I would recommend that people keep an eye on the n ABC
and of course become a Patreon member. And you'll find out when when this
footage, when this film is coming out about Ape Canyon. On another project
that I've been working on for a few years. This is down in southwest
Oregon, and I'm calling it the Thompson Flat Monster. A lot of people
know it as the wild Man of the Sixes, where there's a whole long
series of encounters over the period of about thirty years, as well as some
believe it or not, some attacks on a gold mining cabin and actually where
some miners ended up dead by unknown means, where their bodies beaten to the
pulp or their heads bashed in all the same time, where there's incredibly aggressive
set of creatures were they're bothering these guys. So I got a call about
two years ago from Bobo Fae and Bobo was like, Mark, we got
to do a film on this project. So we've been working on that,
particularly Bobo. Fortunately all the filming is done and all the editing. So
the Wild Manner the Sixes project of mine is coming out in film form too
from Bobo. Awesome. Awesome, that's very cool. So, uh,
did I did you say that that other mining was in the same area as
this. No, it's not. No, it's not it's it's it's almost
exactly one state away where Mount Saint Helens is in the southwest corner of Washington.
The Tops and Flat Monster is down in the in the southwest corner of
Oregon, about ten miles from the ocean, about sixty miles north of the
California Oregon border. Very good. I misheard. I thought you said that
they were on the same area of the mining area. But okay, awesome,
very cool. Do you know of any other stories of the any other
miners or loggers or anything around the Ape Canyon area that have reported instances?
Not any miners, not any miners that I know of, but but plenty,
but plenty of loggers and or people working in in the woods. The
the Abe Canyon miners described described as these creatures as mountain devils. Of course,
it wasn't until JW. Burns termed the the term sasquatch, and even
that started not to get too widespread, so these guys didn't know the word
sasquatch. Bigfoot was. The term bigfoot was often attributed to Jerry Crewe,
that Jerry Crewe incident as far as the invention of that word and or the
reporter down in Eureka. But I have to say that actually the term bigfoot
was coined back in the nineteen twenties. I did find record of someone using
the word bigfoot in the twenties. Regardless, I digress. The miners really
didn't know the term bigfoot. They called the mountain devils. But the story
of this bigfoot creature like creature in the woods was not unknown to the Euro
American culture. It certainly wasn't widespread. But Smith knew other people in the
who had been working in the woods or having wreck time in the wood,
in the woods like fishing or hunting or whatever, where they had encountered and
there were stories of encounters up around Mount Saint Helens on the north side,
around the Tuttle River, along the south side, along the Lewis River,
where there were these encounters that were talked about, completely unexplained, nothing terribly
aggressive, except say, just like a regular road crossing or an encounter in
the woods that will last a few seconds. But this was this was known
for you know, off and on a little bit, but certainly up on
Mount Saint Helens there were plenty of one. In particular, there were plenty
of much older stories, old time stories that as they say, amongst the
Yakama Nation, amongst the Clickatat Nation, amongst the Chehalis Callet's nation as well.
The reason why is because Mount Saint Helens today and forever is really really
big on huckleberry because of the elevation, because of the dense woods, huckleberry
grow like crazy up there. And so these nations that were living around Mount
St. Helens all ended up kind of gathering huckleberry up on Mount St.
Helens together. And there there there is a story that keeps getting repeated over
and over again where at Spirit Lake. Spirit Lake got its name not from
this sort of idea of this great spirit in the wood is great spirit in
the sky, sort of like you know, kind of stereotypical Western Indian movies
kind of stuff. What the spirit of Spirit Lake actually referred to was what
they called mountain spirits. There was a tribe of people and they were known
as Siatick or sia Tick, and there were not very many in number of
these people that lived up above Spirit Lake. They were elusive, they didn't
like to be bothered at all. And an old time story was that sometimes
when these people Yakima cal It's humans would be going up there to collect camping
and to collect food. Once in a while, a young kid would go
missing, particularly a younger woman eleven, twelve, thirteen years old. Particularly
oddly enough, it was covered with if she had red hair, she'd go
missing, and then once in a while she would end up being returned,
almost like a change lane kind of story. About five or six years later,
while enough kids were disappearing, where according to the old story, the
humans got together with Asiatic and they said, look, we're gonna leave.
We're never ever coming back if you stop taking our kids. Also, what
we want is that the Siatick would would steal a kid and stuff them in
this huge basket almost like a backpack, and take off with them. So
the humans said, well, if you show us how to make these baskets,
we're going to leave and never come back. And that was the deal.
They learned how to make these baskets. So these baskets are traditionally used
for huckleberry collecting, and they come in different forms and in some of the
weaving, once in a while, these images are woven into these baskets and
you can see, oh, that's a deer, that's an elk, that's
a human. But then there's this other image of this much taller, semi
human looking creature, pointy head, no neck, narrow hips, you know,
much more menacing, larger than the human images. It was around nineteen
twenty four where a reporter, a member of the Klowen nation named George Totski,
talked about the Cia tick and and basically told the same story except for
the fact that these people named the Ciotick happened to be seven or eight feet
tall and covered entirely with reddish brown hair. That's fascinating really so so they
think that the sasquatches or these creatures were making these baskets first, That's what
I'm kind of getting out of that. And they taught them. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, that's That's one of the origin stories of the local basket
art, the local basket manufacturing. There's two other stories. One rather kind
of banal story is an old time story between Cedar, the tree and squirrel
as far as the origin of the baskets. But there are other origin stories
of the basket that are somewhat similar to the Spirit Lake sa Tick story,
where the baskets are taught to humans by one or one of three Ogre sisters
that live in the woods, and on one of the Ogre sisters monsters in
the woods where it was the one who taught the people how to make baskets.
But yeah, there's as far as how humans, all the local humans
say in southwest Washington, western Washington, how they learned the basket was something
having to do with some sort of monster in the woods, some sort of
large like bipedal kind of monstrous human kind of creature in the woods. So
yeah, that's some of the baskets, some of the old time stories of
the of these folks that live up there. Oh, I keep picturing,
you know, I just have Crampus now, you know, the spirit of
Christmas and stuff that the dark entity that that picks up these children and throws
him in his sack or in his basket. And I'm picturing that kind of
same thing as you're telling these stories, and how you know, like is
this kind of the same kind of story, and you know, like how
things kind of evolved from there? Have you thought about any of that?
Yeah, you know, you know, I'm not as familiar with one one
detail about the Crampus stealing children with crampas do you know, are the children
ever returned or are they just gone forever? With the Grampus stories, I'm
I'm not sure that that's it. I know it's usually the bad children are
taken, you know, so it's it's still that it's still all kind of
falls under that fame mythology, you know, like you said, the change
links and stuff. But I exactly right. Not they ever get returned or
not with with with the children that are stolen in in the old stories.
But actually I have one story that's not that old of the children being stole.
Sometimes they're gone forever. Sometimes they are returned, but they're only returned
many, many years later. One of the one of the Calots families around
here is a is A as A as A last name of Wanna Say and
Frank want to say was interviewed as as A as a Native Calots guy with
old time stories in nineteen twenty four during the eight during the Ape Canyon publicity,
and it was actually Frank's mother, I believe, or his grandmother was
one of the last people to be known to have been stolen. And there
is a photo of her and it's almost like a studio portrait at in her
In her later life, she was known as Indian Mary or eye patch or
one eye because she had lost an eye sometime in our adulthood, and it's
a studio portrait with her very long gray hair and an eye patch, and
she's buried, and she's buried in Woodland. And apparently this story goes was
that she was taken as a very very young girl, ten eleven years old,
and then returned when she was about sixteen or seventeen, and much like
the Fay, much like the fairies changeling stories, she came back and she
was very different. She was not good, apparently socially, she was distant,
had a hard time dealing with other humans around her. She was just
a different person and lives the rest of her days. Didn't talk about at
all her time of being gone. She would simply wouldn't talk about it,
except that the family knew that they were up there on the mountain and they
turned around and she's gone. And then suddenly she shows up back around the
Columbia River, which is driving time today. It's about an hour and a
half away, about seventy eighty miles away from Mount Saint Helens, and shows
up inexplicably why she was missing. Nobody knows. Oh, I wish I
would have paid more attention to it. I just read an article today on
Facebook about a girl that disappeared and just came back six years later, really,
and I can't remember where it was or anything. I just kind of
was skimming through Facebook earlier today and it was a girl and she went missing
and she just showed back up six years later. So that's it's very very
reminiscent of this. I don't even know where it was, honestly, but
if you, if you come across it again, send it to me and
I'll start looking to It's like some of the some of the David David Pilotti's
famous stories of that of that really really young guy I can't remember. He
was like three or four years old, and he was missing for like three
or four days, and then the search and rescue found him miles and miles
away from where he where he got lost outside of camp. So the again,
again, like Mary want to say, this was only about a hundred
years ago or so, but disappearing children, especially disappearing children up in rugged
mountainous areas, still still happen, you know. And I'm not I'm not.
I don't want to attribute like to any kind of like monsters or wood
or anything to every missing person in the woods. Certainly not, but there
are sometimes weird circumstances and weird questions that crop up as well. Absolutely,
we are coming up here on the end of this hour here, and I
wanted to get some comments and questions here. Bigfoot Society wants to say hey
and love you to you. Thanks Jeremiah. Brian McMahon here says infinite riches.
Whoever wrote that, kudos, that's in your bio. I love that
line as well. And h Lee Warner would like to know if you know
anything about the Teddy Roosevelt story that he had talked about, and have you
gotten any research into that or what can you tell us about that one?
Only a little bit the Roosevelt Bowman story. Uh, there are two great
friends out in Montana who looked into it a little bit and we've just kind
of been chatting a little bit. Tom and Katie Ertz. They're they're really
great researchers and good friends, and we have talked about the Roosevelt Bowman story.
And I think that Katie's right. I think that there is so little
document evidence of the Bowman and Roosevelt stuff, at least right now, because
what's been written about. Are sort of of what the Ape Canyon story was.
Humbly speaking, before I got in. Before I got into it,
it was just almost campfire stories, just little bits written here and there.
Katie had had a very very good point that really the next step and maybe
hopefully I'll get around to it. On Roosevelt, it's going to it's going
to require a Freedom of Information Act request from National Archives. And I gotta
say another shout out to every librarian and every archivist. They're so dedicated and
so helpful. My friends and National Archives and State archives have just been great.
And when I tell them that I'm looking into a Bigfoot story, they
getting even more excited and dig a little bit, dig a little bit more
so on Roosevelt, Bowman, it's a project I would like to tackle,
but we need a lot more information before we can start pinpointing about where this
happened and any more information about it. Awesome. I know you mentioned this
earlier as well, another very famous story, the Albert Ausman story. I
know a lot of people have differing opinions on that. What what is your
opinion? Do you think that it's it's a factual story, an actual incident,
or do you think that that was all fabricated. I really can't say
yes or no, whether it was factual or whether it was not. The
reason being is because all we really have is John Green's interview with Albert Astman.
That's all we have, and that was done forty years after the fact.
There was very, very little that was talked about about the Ausman incident
until John Green tracked him down and in and interviewed him. You know,
there is or was it is a little bit of a holy grail if you
will, to the to the Oustman story. And I got this from Scott
Violette Scott, Scott and Hannah, and Scott said that he had come across
somebody who knew somebody else who knew somebody else who apparently had a copy photocopy
I don't think the original, but a photocopy of of Albert Osman's diary from
many years ago. So I bubb Scott a lot about it, and I
was like, you gotta get it, you gotta get it. Let me
and so the unfortunately, the fellow who told him that he had the Ausman
diary kind of ghosted a little bit, and Scott hasn't been able to get
a hold of him. Again. There there are there are a lot of
there are a lot of problems with Ausman's story of you know, with the
idea of him you know, tricking these creatures with snuff and you know,
being able to escape and give back to civilization apparently without shoes, which was
like a long ways away. There's some of those examples, plus not really
great geographic calls in his story where we can actually pinpoint where this is.
Another great longtime researcher, John Kirk the third has looked into that rather hard
as far as trying to pinpoint about where he was taken. But there's a
lot of missing information. So again until more document evidence shows up, I
don't know. I certainly don't know. But one thing about Osman's story,
these big classics, even though there's not a lot of perhaps veracity to the
story on not a lot of detail, it certainly grabbed your attention. It
grabbed my attention enough to propel a lot of people into looking into the Sasquatch
phenomenon more. And really I think it really gave birth to well, I
don't know what you want to call it, second, third, fourth generation
of the Four Horsemen, we I think that's where we are now. We're
sort of the fourth generation after Green into hind In and Patterson and you know,
all all that stuff really inspired us absolutely. All right, man,
I appreciate everything that you've done, all your hard work and dedication into the
topics and stuff. That's that's amazing that people are out there actually doing the
research to try and you know, prove that these stories are real or hoaxed,
and that you know, because that's at the end of the day,
you know, this is this is amazing story, the whole Eight Canyon situation.
It's you know, big Foot legend and stuff. But at the end
of the day, it's just a story unless you have the facts to back
it up. And everybody that's the eye you know that Bigfoot is just a
hoax. There's no proof and stuff. And then you've you've stepped forward looked
at the actual documentation to prove that this place actually existed. The story,
whether the story is true or not, but you have the back up that
says the place existed, the people existed, the mine existed, everything else
falls into place. So I really appreciate your hard work and well thanks,
thanks, thanks man. The one thing as sort of like maybe a punchline.
As we're wrapping this up, is that right in for Ape Canyon?
Right inside the foundation of the cabin about four or five six years ago,
we were able to find right inside the box of the foundation, we found
a breast cartridge and it was, as best we can tell, a thirty
thirty cartridge, which is the rifle that fred Beck was using. And it
is plain old. It's a very very old cartridge. So whether the story
is true, whether they shot at these creatures or not, I don't know.
But we found a bullet cartridge inside the foundation of the cabin. Here
you go. I assume you should find a lot more if they shot at
these things all night though, you know that's all right? Awesome? Yeah,
So wrapping up here, man, tell us what are you working on
now? What are you researching? And where again, where can we find
more about you? And where can people see this information? And do you
have any conferences or anything you're gonna be speaking at coming up? No.
As far as far as conferences, I am available. People can get a
hold of me. I don't have anything scheduled right now. I was doing
conferences hot and heavy. My last one was in Forks, but no,
I don't. I don't have anything scheduled right now, but for right now.
Yeah, you can get a hold of me on Facebook with my name
or monster history dot net if you want to check out my website, which
is going to be growing. We're gonna be adding more to it, I
swear. But right now, no project is ever done. No project has
ever ever done. There's more to do on Eighth Canyon, there's a lot
more to do on Thompson Flat three or four other projects we didn't have time
to get into. I'm gonna be dead before I'm done on any of these
projects. Awesome, Well, best of luck to you. Keep up the
good work man right on, Thanks so much, thank you for being on
the show today, Mark, Okay, thanks man, all right, guys,
Mark Marcel historian land surveyor at historical researcher on Ape Cannon and all kinds
of other Bigfoot historical stories we'll say, and awesome awesome interviews. So thank
you so much for being on the show today and joining us here on the
Untold Radio Network. Coming up next week right here, same time, same
place, we have Matt Pruitt is gonna be on talking about his brand new
book and it's an awesome book. Make sure you guys go check it out.
That'll be next week here on Monday months. Hi am, I am
tired Man on Monsters on the Edge on the Untold Radio network. We'll see
on the Edge up would be more