WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:13.240 Third lap the podcast with Alejandro Gaviría and Ricardo Silva Romero, a podcast of 2 00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:24.239 the locutorio arroba el locutorio dese I don' t like this kind of idealization 3 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:29.399 of books that confuses life with reading. As if I summarized absolutely everything yes 4 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:36.920 and how reading will suffice in life. I don' t think so, 5 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:43.640 as if moms were the main thing and as if I were reading when they 6 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:47.399 tell people, you have to read, because this is going to be better. 7 00:00:47.840 --> 00:01:03.240 People there begin to fail chawinism. Hi Ricardo, Hi Alejandro that more 8 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:08.480 this week of the Colombian cultural world had what was interpreted as a good news 9 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:15.640 totally, and is that the syndices how they are called readingability. The study 10 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:21.439 is really called reading habits. It is the subject of the study by the 11 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:29.680 Colombian Chamber of the book and imbamer Ibammer and showed that Colombians are reading more. 12 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:34.799 Yes, all Colombians were reading more, according to the poll, but 13 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:38.480 Colombians, who consider themselves readers, who call themselves readers, went from reading 14 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:44.640 five four books a year, that the figures are always funny, because, 15 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.959 yes, how I have a problem. Four is an average that' s 16 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.159 a little funny when it comes to truth. Although I have also read books 17 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:59.480 in trecimal point in problem zero three of an exact book I zero fifteen and 18 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:06.599 are no longer reading five four books, but six ninety- one books. 19 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:12.039 But this is a difference between the study of two thousand seventeen and the study 20 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.759 of two thousand twenty- four, which is this two thousand seventeen, two, 21 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:19.759 one thousand twenty- four, that is, seven years of spo media 22 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:27.479 increase so that the self- identifying group identifies as readers the books read a 23 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:29.039 year in almost one and a half. Of course it' s a lot. 24 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:35.759 Lot. The self- called reader group has grown and the same price 25 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.400 that group has also grown, that is, if we do not have all 26 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.400 good news. They have grown in readers and among readers the number of ready 27 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:46.120 have grown and grown in the bookstore. Yes, exactly. The bookstore is 28 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:52.439 more than five hundred in Colombia and every month they open more and it' 29 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:59.960 s amazing that there are more plans and bookstore launches and the President of the 30 00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:02.280 Colombian Chamber himself, the book says it has to do with the pandemic, 31 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.000 which I found interesting, that is, this issue that the pandemic was going 32 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.360 to produce behavioural changes, it seems true. As for books, yes, 33 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:14.280 he dares to say that and it seems fair and logical to me, and 34 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:19.520 if you feel one could have this suspicion that you have increased the numbers of 35 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.879 readers, for example, by taking Instagram and seeing that there are a number 36 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:30.120 of book reviewers with accounts of just that book reviews, that there are reading 37 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:35.639 clubs and workshops more and more. One could suspect, seeing that they were 38 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:40.520 launching bookstores, that this was growing, that there is something real, that 39 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:46.400 is, the evidence that shows this survey coincides with the anecdotes that one collects 40 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.520 here beyond what exactly is happening you who have looked at that rich with a 41 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:55.599 little detail and or not that will be read books or books bought. I 42 00:03:55.680 --> 00:04:00.479 believe that they are read free are a lot more than in addition, in 43 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:05.199 the study there is also talk about that the growth in the purchase of books, 44 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:12.919 that one notices it in both independent publishing houses and more, as they 45 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.159 are all independent, but that' s what they call them. Smaller and 46 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:25.079 larger publishers have an increasing growth in their numbers. It keeps growing that and 47 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:28.920 it' s, I guess, hopeful, but it' s also amazing. 48 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:31.360 Yeah, I think it' s interesting. It has been said many 49 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.879 times, but it is worth reiterating. They' re two very different things. 50 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:42.800 Some are buying books, yes, others are reading them yes. We 51 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:48.319 all have true, many have a fetish with books totally and buying books has 52 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:53.800 a passion. So, it' s a passion for me. I even 53 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.560 remember that I told this story when I was sick with cancer, that I 54 00:04:57.639 --> 00:04:59.399 wrote a notic or what I would like to do. One of the things 55 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:06.000 I thought was walking to the bookstore. Here St librarian I like clearly to 56 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:11.680 choose two other books, not read them full, see them in half, 57 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:16.519 put them in the or exile them there somewhere in the library and feel that 58 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:19.680 from there and make them happy. But it was the object that radiated something. 59 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:23.360 It' s a fetish, a little strange, but good there this 60 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.920 but it makes sense, is that you' re already very used to books, 61 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.199 that they exist and that if you think about it a little bit more, 62 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:35.000 it' s very touching that someone has. In fact, the impression 63 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:42.279 going to a printing press is fantastic to know a printing press to see how 64 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:46.360 each book, the font, the paper is made. That' s very 65 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.360 beautiful. They are object or bellus, yes exact. New books have an 66 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:58.360 attractive characteristic smell. The old ones, they' re even as good as 67 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:01.519 you are as they are well made to think it was very difficult to make 68 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:06.000 them. Not like now. Well, there are computer software machines. In 69 00:06:06.040 --> 00:06:12.879 the old books. There are hidden stories, some underlined ones, some phrases, 70 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:20.319 some dedications that tell of other readers who passed by. And I find 71 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:26.079 that effectiche nice, interesting. I don' t want to overdo it. 72 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:30.600 Neither. I have always believed that behind that fetish there is an illusion, 73 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:38.600 and that there are promises to be fulfilled. There' s some kind of 74 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:45.800 epiphanies, to discover that those books are hiding some sort of secret, some 75 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:50.759 sort of secret that' s going to be a little happier for us or 76 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:55.759 I see it a little better. If the other day I read a phrase 77 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.959 from the writer that a children' s book was invented. It' s 78 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:03.600 very famous, it' s called Charlotte' s web, which I' 79 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.000 ve seen. It' s nice and has very nice movie versions. It 80 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:15.000 ' s very sad too and she said that what excited her to see books 81 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.959 out there, libraries in bookstores, was the suspicion that there was a person 82 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:27.360 in there who was trapped there that one was just going to know him and 83 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:30.600 that that would be like the genius of the bottle that you don' t 84 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:33.879 know something is going to come out of there exactly a friend, a friend, 85 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.120 a story. What Gemi Sación hemy Way said there is in the books. 86 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:44.079 There' s a loyalty inside there' s a loyalty something that' 87 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:45.839 s going to be loyal. I think that' s interesting. But on 88 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:49.920 the other hand, when you buy those books, you know if they bring 89 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:53.600 me happiness already far away. But that, too, I have to recognize 90 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:58.519 anxiety. Yeah cool as a kind of when you go home with the books 91 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:03.959 in the bag, just bought to a task. Yes, there is a 92 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.959 task, and we already have many tasks in the world. Then do another 93 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:11.839 task, for example, of poetry that are read in another way, that 94 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.000 you don' t have to read them from the first, the last page, 95 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:20.639 that I couldn' t open them anywhere, they give me a little 96 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.879 more peace of mind because there is no such obligation. If there are two, 97 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.720 yes, there are two ways. There, well, I' m 98 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:33.559 impressed with the books you haven' t read, that you know there' 99 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:41.039 s a fair one, a person, but a life that got into a 100 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:45.679 game, that is, every book. One knows that it is a tremendous 101 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.200 effort and that it is the same effort to make a bad book as a 102 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:54.000 good one. For example, it requires the same dedication, the same discipline, 103 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.200 the same is to give everything to make a bad book and a good 104 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:03.279 one and have them piled up. You feel like I' m failing that 105 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.039 person who put his life behind the books. There is much effort and in 106 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:11.279 all books, even in the worst, there is something respectable, accurate, 107 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:22.000 also accurate. I don' t like this kind of idealization of books, 108 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:28.840 which confuses life with reading as if I summarized absolutely everything and how reading will 109 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:37.919 suffice in life. I don' t think if, as if Mom were 110 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:43.679 the main thing and as if she played reading when they told people, you 111 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:50.080 have to read, because this will make it better. Person there begins to 112 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:56.320 fail chauinism, not exact showinism. This week I' m talking to my 113 00:09:56.360 --> 00:10:00.600 brother and I talked a lot here and he told me he had a friend 114 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:01.919 and he said that man is crazy about books. He' s reading five 115 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.919 or six books a week. No, and I said that idea of a 116 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.639 bora book. I' ve never liked it. I don' t think 117 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:16.279 it' s overwhelming. I think he blames people. Five six books a 118 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:22.200 week. That I said why I don' t want to talk to that 119 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.440 hand. I wasn' t gonna tell her a little bit more about Netflix 120 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:28.919 or Twitter. Do not recommend anything you can see. Yeah, you start 121 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:33.679 out like you' re against that thing in life, do something useful, 122 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:39.120 watch TV and go eat something else. Yes, that chawinism of books and 123 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:45.080 that Leeres does it to a better one and that the one who does not 124 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:52.200 read is below, sounds even discriminatory. Sometimes I don' t have one. 125 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.879 I have it, too, and we may have it for now that 126 00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:56.399 we' re talking about books. When I got on a plane, I 127 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.720 always look good at the survey, who' s there, how many readers 128 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:03.720 there are here and I see few people reading and I open my book. 129 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.879 I concentrate an hour and a half. It' s a good place to 130 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:09.879 read airplanes today and it doesn' t feel a bit superior. But if 131 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:11.799 it has to be like this, doesn' t it have to be? 132 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:16.840 It' s a bit like people who are religious, and there are some 133 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:20.440 who bother others with that and there are others who don' t. I 134 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.960 like people who are religious and do not impose it on anyone or go around 135 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:31.519 evangelizing, but live it as inside and assume it. And there are readers 136 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:35.639 who are like this, very good readers who take out their readings in ways 137 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:41.879 that are not ostentatious neither yes nor do they impose themselves. It is a 138 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:52.000 way of being a quiet reader and useful for everyone. There' s a 139 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.679 question I' m asking myself these days that I didn' t ask myself 140 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:00.480 before, and well, what do we read for? I would like Ricardo 141 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:05.879 to explore an answer, but with a particular optics that we have on the 142 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.120 night table. Those chevers, what books are there, what are we reading 143 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.639 them for, what are we looking for? Yeah, what' s that 144 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:18.039 got, what' s on the night table, because I' ve been 145 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.919 thinking about what I got there and I know it' s a long tower. 146 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:30.080 So am I and the foundation of the tower is the biography of famous 147 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:35.799 Openhaime, which is huge and which I read from a few and which I 148 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.320 keep ringing from the film and you are reading it orderly. Or I' 149 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.360 m not looking for parts. I haven' t been so judicious. I 150 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.360 read a lot of biographies. That' s what I like to read the 151 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:52.679 most, especially about artists. I prefer to read about painters, musicians, 152 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:58.879 filmmakers, writers. I like that a lot. I thought I liked it 153 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:09.080 because biographies prove that it is possible to live in general. Yes, yes, 154 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:15.759 they endure the roads, that there are setbacks and people overcome them and 155 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:20.000 there are high and low, Well, some things that sound like girlfriends, 156 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.799 but that from one' s perspective sometimes, because it doesn' t look 157 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:28.840 so clear that where life goes is interesting recarto so that you' ve been 158 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.399 above all a fictional life fritter. Totally, but you like to read biographies. 159 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.240 It does relieve me. I' m relieved to see eight see that 160 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.360 contraction. It does relieve me. Novels make me more anxious than biographies and 161 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:50.879 make me connect with work rather than life. I have on my night table 162 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:58.559 a big novel that I wanted to read almost as obligations imposed on you. 163 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.840 He' s back here. It is a novel by a great Polish writer 164 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:07.399 named Olga tor Kartzuk. So, if you play Zuck there' s like 165 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.200 a s and a zeta. There' s a Nobel Prize in Literature. 166 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:20.480 They are called Jacob' s books on the arrival in a supposed messiah in 167 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:28.960 Poland, eighteenth century, that interesting moment of humanity, where it was coming. 168 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.039 The illustration was implanted in the world. But there is still another medieval 169 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:39.720 world, full of a kind of animism. We could put it that way 170 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.480 about beliefs that had nothing to do with science, that was gaining space and 171 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.080 it' s interesting. But the first part of the book, which is 172 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:52.679 many pages, is a marriage. We get a lot of people and write 173 00:14:52.120 --> 00:15:03.120 every float, every dress, every kai button and at some point I thought 174 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:05.039 good for what I' m reading all this. Yeah, which one' 175 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:11.039 s interesting. It' s interesting, but I wouldn' t miss the 176 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.320 truth. It would be my catch at some point I saw myself doing a 177 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:20.279 task. Yes, and that' s very interesting, because one pushes one 178 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:26.159 to think about the essence of literary genres, that is, one does have 179 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.039 to be very tuned to a novel. It seems to me yes, this 180 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:33.519 is a very long novel, plus a thousand pages about a moment, in 181 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.559 space and in time, and I started learning a lot of things not from 182 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:41.639 what these Jewish communities were in central Europe in a thousand seven hundred and fifty 183 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.039 - fifty and learning more and more. I even got on the Internet, 184 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.840 I saw the story of that false Jewish messianism back then. But at some 185 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:56.159 point I started thinking good like it' s already, but I haven' 186 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.320 t decided if I' m going to abandon her. One is that it 187 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:03.240 does seem to me that each is clearer that novels are documentaries of a world. 188 00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:10.399 It is a comprehensive document of a world. There are short novels that 189 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.440 have other goals, which are more stories. Let' s say and this 190 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:15.720 is a documentary. This is a documentary. I' m fascinated by that, 191 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:22.600 but I don' t get involved if that world of entry doesn' 192 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.720 t catch my eye. Yes, that is, the gentle gift, the 193 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.320 novel, this famous Russian Chollo Hof, which is what happens around the Don 194 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:37.200 River. Everything interests me and fascinated me and I read it the world of 195 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:41.039 the Caramazov brothers. Well, it' s a document about that moment and 196 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.320 how that society works. But of course, it has a hundred pages about 197 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.120 star et I don' t know which one. I mean, one has 198 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.080 to be very tuned, very interested in that world, in the world of 199 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:57.480 a novel. To continue is complex I think there is one of these lectures 200 00:16:57.559 --> 00:17:03.759 by Blaymir Nabokoks or everything stoy about Ana Caranina. At some point he says 201 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:07.680 look this was the carriages. Draw each little part what a carriage is like 202 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:11.440 inside. If you want to learn exhaustively, and that' s the part 203 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.759 of the world, of course, it' s a reverse at some point, 204 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.160 I' m good, and if I want to know so much about 205 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:19.799 carriages, that' s what can happen. On the other side, I 206 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:26.480 have on the night table a book of poems by that melancholy poet, Ray 207 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.640 Bradbury, the writer he made. But deep down he is a melancholy poet 208 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:37.359 and he opens on any page, and that excites me more that way as 209 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.599 the poetry sings a certain vision of the world and I find myself on the 210 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.440 side of the exhaustive description of that world. On the other hand, a 211 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:51.079 poem that says because no one had told me about the advantages of crying in 212 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:55.319 the shower, not wonder, who it was. I' m excited, 213 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.039 though. No and then there, in that contrast I see a certain superiority 214 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.519 of poetry. Ricardo, I' ve always seen that poetry is your thing. 215 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:11.559 It is true that the verses give with a precise verse. That' 216 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:17.279 s a form of glory. That is an incredible thing when someone manages to 217 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.880 articulate in a verse, be it the Lionor Rigby of the Beatles, in 218 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.680 which there are verses of songs that one says they gave with the key, 219 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:30.480 with the nail of the world, with the key of human experience, exact 220 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:37.119 with the key of mystery. Father Mackenzie of Lionor Rigby is sewing some stockings 221 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:42.160 and one says this is the world. This lord is only in half light, 222 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:48.960 he is making the stockings that image, that absolute for what I read 223 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:55.119 in the background, looking for these epiphanies, of these findings that are typical 224 00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:00.559 of literary language and poetry. Perhaps it is a much more effective shortcut to 225 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:08.400 finding that total, this work that I admire from novelists as artisans, yes, 226 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:15.319 who work many months, many years in that documentary. Yeah, totally, 227 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.720 but it' s good to have that dive in that world. I 228 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.559 recently arrived at an apartment building to make a visit and found a comfortable image 229 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:30.160 and was the doorman of the building reading a big novel yes, Gorda Gorta, 230 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.039 and I saw it opened the door quickly because it was hooked on the 231 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:36.960 novel. It was obvious. I said good. No yes, what a 232 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:38.079 man is not here, because he doesn' t have to be here, 233 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.599 he' s in another world. That note is actually immersed in the documentary 234 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.319 and I would think it is the essence of that. Yeah, that. 235 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:49.599 This was clear because to narrate, which means to drag, is to keep 236 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:57.079 a person in another world for a long time, is to stop him from 237 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:03.680 life, to force him to reject the stimuli of the world that, moreover, 238 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:04.920 we are today overstimulated. And it is his grace at this time that 239 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:11.640 someone spends eight hundred pages slowing down his liberating life, is very liberated, 240 00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:18.160 an act of resistance. But of course, the novelist does not, although 241 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:25.079 he gives with findings and with shortcuts and converts and sentences in the middle of 242 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.319 the description of the carriage, if he is in another task, which is 243 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.559 basically the task that people do not abandon. That' s what the book 244 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:33.559 comes down to, hooking it up there, how to hook it up? 245 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:41.200 The story, the plot, traps, characters, humor, all resources. 246 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:47.480 I tend to be a little impatient and distracted. That' s why. 247 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.599 To that is difficult and that is why my self imposes this task that is 248 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:56.640 not finished to pass you that has been exciting of this great novel, but 249 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.480 I am attracted to the poetry that is there. And I also have another 250 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.680 interesting little book that sometimes I like that it' s not biographies, but 251 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:08.319 interviews and conversations with writers. This is rich. He may like to learn 252 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:12.839 the trade how they write. I think it' s interesting. I like 253 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:18.880 it when they reflect on what has been left in a dedicated life of letters 254 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:25.200 and writing. I like certain phrases. I like to read when writers reflect 255 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:33.319 on their craft. That' s right, that' s also given with 256 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:40.000 some very good investigations of his temperament. There was a time when Roberto Rubiano, 257 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:45.200 the Colombian writer, made an anthology of those phrases. I just deleted 258 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:51.200 the title, but it was very popular among writers in the nineties. A 259 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:55.039 book of quotations from writers, talking about different topics, the relationship of writers 260 00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:00.960 with cinema, their daily work, their relationship with politics, different themes of 261 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.960 writers, and he gathered their testimonies and there is much there that is valuable. 262 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:15.720 It is a very concrete form of self- help. I also have 263 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.160 in the month a little book that I review a lot. This fictional book 264 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:26.039 by Jorge Luis Borges published back in the 1940s. He was forty- three 265 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:32.359 forty- four years old and has on an initial note. That fiction book 266 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:37.119 is the collection of two books. One is the garden of paths that Fork 267 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:41.200 was seen is a collection of tales. He says there' s one interesting 268 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.759 thing. He says a 500- page novel. Like he says he wouldn 269 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.160 ' t be able to write the series. Too laborious for me, for 270 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:53.839 readers. I' d rather write a foreword of a few pages from that 271 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.359 so- called 500- page novel that doesn' t exist. So Borge 272 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.480 made those shortcuts. He didn' t write the five- hundred- page 273 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.839 novels because he saw a review of that non- existent novel. Of course 274 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.319 it' s interesting, yes, and that mentality and it' s very 275 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.000 enviable. I' ve dedicated myself to making novels really from all genres. 276 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.680 I have rehearsed them several, but I have dedicated myself to novels and it 277 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:25.759 gives me fascination when a poem has inside a novel or when a Borges story 278 00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:30.079 has inside everything an encyclopedia in the background. There and that effectiveness in the 279 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:33.920 background is interesting, It is very interesting the or the tale of bor It 280 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:40.599 is the alef that goes there and that ends with that vision of the lef 281 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:44.559 of the point where all the points of the world are, because it is 282 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.680 a little that. That' s what a novel aspires to make a point 283 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:56.000 of everything. But this gentleman manages to insinuate it there and is therefore enviable 284 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:59.559 for the task of someone who is dedicated to making novels. And those Borks 285 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.759 tales have always seemed to me to be very interesting, because you don' 286 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.119 t get it in a first reading, understand everything, then they relent. 287 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.200 It seems to me, yes, they endure very well and there are many 288 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.519 more readings and they are very precise. Yes, and always admired. I 289 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:25.599 ' ve never seen it or that precision. I was thinking about Bradbury, 290 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:33.240 at the night table, and maybe the one who best caught the chauvinism of 291 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.200 books and the passion for books that already starts to be annoying, like when 292 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.079 there' s a Pink Floyd fan who dries it today for God that exist 293 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:45.279 and shows him the collection, they show him the data that the only good 294 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:47.759 thing that' s ever happened in life is that good. Start one already 295 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.240 despairing with those chicks and I think it was Bradbury, with Firenheit four or 296 00:24:52.319 --> 00:25:00.000 five. One completely is that the readers in that book are the chosen ones. 297 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:06.400 They are the people who will save us in the twenty- second century. 298 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:11.680 I do not know what it is, but it created a sect of 299 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.160 people who learn the books by memory, because, as they are all burning 300 00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.640 them, there is one, so there is one person who is in charge 301 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.079 of mambo varies. I think it' s the quijote. And he' 302 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.640 s one, because he has love for those characters. One like when one 303 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:32.960 enters the plane and likes the one reading for these Bradbury characters who are saving 304 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:37.359 books and reading. You say they' re fantastic. But there is also 305 00:25:37.400 --> 00:25:44.839 chawinism. There is chauvinism, but it describes a kind of anti- intellectual 306 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:51.039 cultural environment. Art also captures some of what is happening now and that reader, 307 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.160 like Heredoe, also seems attractive to me in another if not. I 308 00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:03.240 like this time that I lack specialized publications, that is, after a time 309 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:12.279 we say important for journals about books, for example, it seems to me 310 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:19.400 that nowadays reading, promoting reading, reviewing what is read is in the hands 311 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:27.720 of readers. For the love of reading. So we don' t have, 312 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:37.599 because great literary critics, or not at least in commercial publications, but 313 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:44.200 we do have a lot of readers who have put instagram accounts, on Twitter 314 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:48.960 and do so with so much love. Yeah, there' s a lot 315 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.759 of love that you get a lot of times from reading what they' re 316 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.920 promoting. I had a rich conversation a few months ago with writer Carolina Sannin 317 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:02.920 last year, and since then I' ve been digging about what she told 318 00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:07.960 me. She said I don' t write prose again when I have to 319 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.039 make a comment and I do it rather the spoken language And if I' 320 00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:17.920 m going to write, I' m going to write what really needs the 321 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:22.200 attention of writing, which is poetry, that is, the already decanted language 322 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.440 brought to that essence. If I am going to write about some comment, 323 00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:30.440 some element of our political reality, we might say I am not going to 324 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.000 dedicate it. What the written language requires, that cho, is attention to 325 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.000 the phrase, to every point, to every objective, put because perhaps it 326 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.519 will be too ephemeral that comment and there will be a contradiction between substance and 327 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.319 form, because it is very interesting. I find it interesting that I think 328 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:52.319 he' s right at heart and we' re doing this podcast yes, 329 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:55.720 because we' re seeing that there are certain things that better talk about them, 330 00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:56.119 not write them down. Yeah, that' s right. I don 331 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:02.559 ' t know what happened to me, but I started writing poems. It 332 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:07.480 really seemed very clear to me that and I still think that the most literary 333 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.200 thing in literature, if you can say something like that, is poetry. 334 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:18.920 It is what is truly literary, It is what contains literary language, in 335 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:27.079 the sense that literary language is a variation from everyday language to findings, from 336 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:34.359 proseic to findings. The poem manages, with the words of every day, 337 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:41.920 to bring to one something that I had not considered or articulate to one a 338 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.559 suspicion of life as why they did not teach me to cry in the shower. 339 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:52.920 It was so good, not memories, but that' s a fantastic 340 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.079 idea. You understand a lot of things and an emotion, an emotion, 341 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:00.519 but you look in the shower is everyday. But the combination of those words 342 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:08.880 explains one' s world at a stroke and then it would be wise to 343 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:14.720 devote oneself to poetry. But I don' t know if life or the 344 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:19.319 accumulation of years. That' s what the theory says, one even pushes 345 00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.680 one into the story, to review, to document, to put on record. 346 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:29.799 I believe that we all have a story to tell that of our own 347 00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:34.359 life and we do not want to reduce it a single sentence. Then I 348 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:40.359 think I do, I' m back. I also like to tell anecdotes. 349 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:45.720 We still use it, as it is useful. I' m going 350 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.400 back to the first statistic. Ricardo de Cha is five, four, six, 351 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.359 nine, five, four or six and I' m going to be 352 00:29:52.440 --> 00:30:03.640 frank, it doesn' t necessarily seem like good news to me, because 353 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.119 I have had this conviction that, deep down, almost all of the rewrite 354 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:14.319 writing yes, this Borgian idea, that a single book almost contains them all 355 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.519 and that if one reads one or two well- read books, that' 356 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:22.720 s enough. Yes, I mean, it' s not necessarily good to 357 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:27.599 read more. Yes and what one would say in Humero, in Cervantes, 358 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:33.000 in check- ups is the whole human experience. If I agree and if 359 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:41.839 I do not necessarily read more, it will not deepen that wonderful reading experience. 360 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.480 So what I' m saying is maybe it' s a common place, 361 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.279 you don' t have to read any more, but I think it 362 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:53.720 ' s liberating too and it' s that in a well- read book 363 00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:56.599 it exempts us from reading other books. Perhaps it is liberating and I think 364 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:02.440 it has more to do with what literary lie, that thought, than the 365 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:08.440 thought of accumulation and of competing with and winning over other readers. I, 366 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:14.400 when I read the Count of Montecristo, felt that it was enough and left 367 00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.200 over yes, that was there. It was absolutely all behaviors and even a 368 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.599 brilliant plot, better impossible. I think García Márquez said that it was the 369 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:29.960 perfect novel and the perfect plot all of a sudden to read it again and 370 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.680 rediscover his prsen chacuer almost enough, we almost said, but it is true 371 00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:41.319 that one, because it is changing from readings as for the illusion that or 372 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:45.039 we also inhabit the precedent. We want to read about this world. That 373 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:47.759 ' s where I like non- fiction, too. I like to learn 374 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:52.559 different things. Yeah, so I want to learn about genetics. That' 375 00:31:52.599 --> 00:32:00.559 s what I like to get into a book, read it, illusoryly believe 376 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.920 that he learns something, because the Jaymeses have already forgotten everything. I liked 377 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:07.240 to read Oliver Sacs at one point. It' s a delight. They 378 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:13.200 ' re all well written. Interesting. I learned a lot of things that 379 00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:17.720 later forgot, but it' s a fascination and I was remembering that thirty 380 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.000 years ago it was a common place and it was very popular, the book 381 00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:28.000 by Daniel Penach, which is called a very good novel. I gave it 382 00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.200 to myself It was a great thing to be released, because it was exactly 383 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:34.279 the most popular thing. I think it' s no longer a common place, 384 00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:38.000 because it' s been thirty years and I remember that you have those 385 00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:45.400 ten rights of the reader that I found here that between that they are the 386 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.559 first, the right not to read, the second, the right to skip 387 00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:52.279 pages. The third the right not to finish a book, the fourth the 388 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.559 right to reread, which is what we are talking about. The fifth is 389 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:59.440 the right to read anything, which is our defense of self- help, 390 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:04.680 for example. The sixth the right to read what I like. The seventh 391 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.599 the right to read anywhere, the eighth the right to peck, which we 392 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:13.519 have also said, read a few pages, the ninth the right to read 393 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:17.599 aloud and the tenth the right to remain silent which is the wise reader. 394 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:25.000 The wise reader who accumulates wisdom for himself and realizes that perhaps telling the read 395 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:31.079 to the world is not worth it. No, the penalty is for him 396 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:38.880 is his religiosity. Sometimes in this kind of literary magic that invites us so 397 00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:44.640 much to enrich the excerpts of the book and others ask us things. I 398 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:50.000 like to say that I have a question, something that is tormenting me and 399 00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:52.960 I catch a book in library art and it accomplishes on any page. But 400 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.480 it' s an answer Sometimes I find the answer. Yeah, not that 401 00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:58.839 it' s in the book. It' s just good for you, 402 00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.000 yes, but it' s good for you. And that power of books, 403 00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:05.960 that chido magic believing in it. I also believe that this is the 404 00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:08.039 power of fiction and I believe that it is what connects, for example, 405 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:12.000 that they give one to the tarot with reading the Count of Monte Cristo, 406 00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:15.000 which is that there one will understand things and will accommodate them and articulate them. 407 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:22.159 And it' s a very useful crutch and in any case, it 408 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:29.559 ' s people, human beings who have thought and put it there, who 409 00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:34.519 have made an effort to write this thing that we don' t understand yet. 410 00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:39.280 No, yes, it' s very wonderful, mysterious, which is 411 00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:44.400 human life. I like a phrase from this unborscaed poet Whis Lowa, the 412 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:49.480 Polish. Yes or that says human life on the third planet of the Sun. 413 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.840 Yeah, we' ll keep reading, we' ll continue what else 414 00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.639 we can do now. That Ricardo of five four is going to be Manuel. 415 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:10.199 Always pick a good time. Always choose a good conversation. Third round 416 00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:17.280 the podcast subscribe now and listen to it every week on your favorite platform a 417 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.239 podcast produced by the speaker. The newsroom follows us as the newsroom takes hold 418 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:27.119 on social networks