WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.360 This is a commercial, free archive edition of our live radio show that airs 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:11.400 every Friday at noon, Arizona time on openminds dot TV. Welcome to open 3 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:17.280 Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson from the Mutual UFO 4 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:22.519 Network. Alejandro who's been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists for nearly a decade 5 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:27.160 and has logged hours in the field investigating the paranormal up close and personal, 6 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:32.840 and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. 7 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:40.119 Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome to Open Minds Radio, 8 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:45.000 where we're bringing the UFO subject into the light of day. This is 9 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:51.759 Alejandro Rojas and we have another spectacular show today. I always get so excited 10 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:55.840 to speak to you people. Today we have who we were supposed to have 11 00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:00.640 last week, doctor Paul Davies. Unfortunately we had a phone issue last week 12 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:06.400 and luckily he was able to reschedule. But still a lot of people appreciated 13 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:11.359 hearing me and Jason go over the news for the show. And there's always 14 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:15.480 so much interesting stuff to talk about in this field, and today we're going 15 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.840 to be talking about a lot of really cool stuff with a skeptic. Yes, 16 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:26.840 mister Paul Davies is a skeptic when it comes to UFOs and possible extraterrestrial 17 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:33.079 presence here on Earth. However, because of him, this subject has been 18 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:38.879 in the news a lot. Paul Davies has a new book coming out that's 19 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:44.040 called The Eerie Science Silence. It's kind of about SETI and what they're doing 20 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:52.920 to look into UFOs and extraterrestrials. And he also spoke at the Vatican Reads 21 00:01:52.959 --> 00:02:00.000 recently and the Royal Society's Conference on Astrobiology, all of which has been getting 22 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:07.000 a lot of news across mainstream media. So all about extraterrestrials. Here's his 23 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:13.199 bio, which is really interesting. Paul Davies is a British born theoretical physicist. 24 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:17.919 He's a cosmologist, astrobiologist, and best selling author. He is the 25 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:24.000 director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science and co director of the 26 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:31.240 Cosmology Initiative at Arizona State University. Although he's all over the world talking on 27 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:37.840 these subjects, as I mentioned, he spoke at the Vatican and this was 28 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:44.400 at the Pontifical Academy for Science, his study week on astrobiology, and at 29 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:51.000 the Vatican the Royal Society's recent conference on astrobiology, and it had kind of 30 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:57.280 a cool name. It was called the Detection of Extraterrestrial Life and the Consequences 31 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.280 for Science and Society, So that title. It's just kind of cool to 32 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:08.159 have some major organization out in the UK, some stuffy scientist organization talking about 33 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:13.800 this stuff. So we're gonna be talking to doctor Davies about all of this 34 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:19.159 and more. Of course, we talked a lot about how Hillary Clinton was 35 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:24.639 holding doctor Davies's book when she was meeting with Lawrence Rockefeller, who was trying 36 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:30.800 to get the Clinton administration to release information on UFOs, So we'll talk about 37 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:37.400 that as well. Exciting breakthrough when we finally figured out what the book was 38 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:40.719 that she was holding in their meeting. Otherwise, a little bit of business 39 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.199 before we get into the news. Our magazine, Open Mind Magazine is in 40 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.360 the stores. I've been telling you people that it's been in every store. 41 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.479 But you know, we've got this girl who works with us, Maureene, 42 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:58.719 who's always got to burst our bubble. Thanks Maureene, just kidding. She's 43 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:01.840 she's actually there's a lot of cool stuff for us. Now she's back there 44 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:08.800 just berating me in the corner, but luckily you can't hear her. But 45 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:13.560 actually, we're not in every bookstore for the first run, but we will 46 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:17.399 be for the second. So it's only select Barnes and Nobles and Borders book 47 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.240 starters out there that you can get it. But you can always go to 48 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:26.759 Openminds dot tv and order it. You've got very friendly service and there's lots 49 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:30.639 of cool stuff to see there on the website while you're ordering. However, 50 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.680 this next edition which is coming out June first, which it has a lot 51 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:42.720 of Vatican stories in it, including a story from the Jesuits ex lawyer. 52 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:46.839 I forget exactly what his title was, but essentially someone who worked for the 53 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:49.959 Jesuits to story on the Vatican and ets and UFOs and all that cool stuff. 54 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:54.600 So the next magazine will be out soon June first, and all the 55 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:59.920 stories. We've gotten a lot of great feedback on the magazine. Also local 56 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.519 and if you want to fly out here to Scottsdale, Arizona, you can 57 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:09.720 come and meet the editors of Open Minds Magazine, which includes myself, and 58 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:14.639 we'll be talking about our stories at vision Quest Metaphysical Bookstore. That will be 59 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:19.480 April thirtieth at seven pm and they are at two two two five North Scottsdale 60 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:24.319 Road, so that will be a lot of fun. And then finally join 61 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:29.240 us in Roswell and we'll have a lot more information on that coming up July 62 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:33.199 fourth and Roswell, come and see the fireworks. Hopefully we won't accidentally cause 63 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:39.720 another UFO crash with the fireworks out there. But Roswell has a big festival 64 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:44.800 on the fourth of July weekend to commemorate the alleged crash of the UFO back 65 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.399 in nineteen forty seven. So that'll be a lot of fun and we'll be 66 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:51.879 there. But before we get to our guests, let's get into UFOs. 67 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:56.759 In the news, and of course, as always we have our news correspondent 68 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:01.720 Jason McClelland Jason tell us all about the good afternoon Alejandro, Hello Phoenix, 69 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:05.480 and Hello world. This is your Open Mind's News Brief for Friday, April 70 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:11.720 twenty third, twenty ten. In the News this week, NASA's planet hunting 71 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:15.879 probe, known as Kepler, may have found four hundred Earth life planets, 72 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:19.480 but don't expect NASA to share any details for a while. NASA has procedures 73 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:25.360 in place for sharing research data, but details related to the four hundred objects 74 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.399 of interest, as they've been called, were sealed from the public by a 75 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.560 NASA panel until at least February twenty eleven. The panel cited a need to 76 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:39.160 study the planets more closely as their reason for stealing the information. Yeah, 77 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.079 kind of weird. I mean, they've been looking for extra solar planets and 78 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:48.680 those that possibly have life for a long time and it's been all supposedly being 79 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:51.759 shown to the public. Why all of a sudden did they say they've got 80 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:56.360 to keep this seth secret? Very strange. It is strange, And they 81 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.040 didn't give an answer as to why, right I said, we're doing it. 82 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.560 They just wanted to do it. They think they need more time. 83 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:05.160 But it's interesting because they don't usually do that. Yeah, but if any 84 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:11.199 NASA officials are listening and they do find something really cool about these planets, 85 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:15.439 February twenty eleven is when they say they're going to release the data, and 86 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:19.360 that's perfect time for our international UFO Congress. Yeah, exactly, so hopefully, 87 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:21.959 and if they wanted to and we should give them this offer. They 88 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:27.240 can come down to the UFO Congress and release their information there. We can 89 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:31.120 certainly make that happen, right absolutely. In other science news, Gary Rufkin, 90 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:36.040 a professor of genetics at Harvard University, has developed a microfluidics chip that 91 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:40.920 could be used in the future to shift Martian soil for alien DNA. The 92 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.480 chip would be installed on a soil collecting rover vehicle and would cause any microscopic 93 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:48.759 life within the Martian dust to release its genetic material. Chemicals in the chip 94 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:54.399 would then amplify the DNA and label it with fluorescent dyes. Ruffcan estimates his 95 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:58.839 team as only three percent complete with designing a workable Martian DNA sequencing machine, 96 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:01.360 but still though it is pretty cool. Yeah cool, you know, put 97 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.920 that baby in a rover and be interesting to see what they find. On 98 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.560 TV this week, the History Channel is running a series entitled Ancient Aliens. 99 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:15.160 The series explores the evidence of ancient aliens and looks at the ancient alien theory, 100 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.680 a notion fathered by Swiss author Eric Vondanikin. According to the theory, 101 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.839 space travelers visited Earth thousands of years ago, and they talked humans about technology 102 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:28.639 and influenced ancient religions. Ancient Aliens airs Tuesdays at seven pm, Arizona Time 103 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.920 on the History Channel, and I believe they air reruns on Saturday nights, 104 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.240 so check your local listings. Also in the news, our guests today, 105 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.360 Paul Davies. His new book, The Eerie Silence, Renewing Our Search for 106 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.000 Alien Intelligence, was reviewed in The New York Times this week, adding to 107 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:48.120 the tremendous amount of mainstream press Professor Davies has already received during the past couple 108 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:54.399 of months. Yeah, he's gotten just megapress all over the place. I'm 109 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.919 excited to have him on the show today. I know, meet Tim. 110 00:08:56.159 --> 00:08:58.679 That's it from the news. Remember to check out these stories and more. 111 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.919 TV your source for UFO related news. I'm your Open Mindes News correspondent Jason 112 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:07.799 McClellan. And you've been briefed back to you, Alejandro. Alright. Yes, 113 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.919 when we get Paul Davies on in just a few minutes here, after 114 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:16.440 our next commercial break, which is coming up in a few seconds, we 115 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:18.960 will be talking about SETI. He used to be a backer of this group, 116 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.600 and we'll talk more about who and what they are. If you're not 117 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.320 familiar, but he says there's probably better ways to do what they're doing, 118 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:30.080 which, of course we felt all the time. We'll be talking about the 119 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:35.000 Vatican and Hillary Clinton with Paul Davies when he comes back after this break. 120 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:52.440 Hello, and welcome back to Open Minds Radio. This your host Alejandro Rojas, 121 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:58.240 and we've got a little bit of a delay with Paul Davies getting online. 122 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:03.000 He'll be here very soon. But one thing I wanted to mention about 123 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:07.360 him, which is kind of cool, and maybe Jason, if you can 124 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:13.840 share your comments as well, But this is a guy who has an asteroid 125 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:22.600 named after him. In nineteen ninety two, officially OG six eight seven oh 126 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.960 I think is the name of the asteroid was renamed Paul Davies in his honor. 127 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:30.600 How cool is that? I did not know that. That's pretty cool. 128 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.279 Yeah. One of the things I want to talk to him about also 129 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:41.879 is which is interesting that he spoke at the Vatican because he talked about Christianity 130 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:46.679 having the biggest issue. And what's interesting is this is just prior to the 131 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:50.480 Vatican having their astrobiology conference, so I'm wondering if it has something to do 132 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.200 with them doing this, but that Christianity, out of all the religions, 133 00:10:54.519 --> 00:11:01.279 really has kind of the hardest problem philosophically with the idea give extraterrestrial intelligence, 134 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:09.039 and mainly because like Heath hawks about is a second genesis, that this idea 135 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:13.679 that when Jesus died, he died to save humankind. So if there are 136 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:18.679 others out there, did he die for them as well? Did he go 137 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:26.399 talk with them? Did he reincarnate? But really Christianity doesn't allow for the 138 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.159 idea of reincarnation, So a lot of issues there that they're looking into. 139 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.639 The series that's running on the History Channel right now, The Ancient Aliens, 140 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:46.039 also dives into ancient religions and a lot of what Eric Mondanakin talks about is 141 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:52.720 religion and aliens playing into that. Yeah, one of the things that I 142 00:11:52.759 --> 00:12:00.759 think is really interesting is that there are a lot of ancient religion and cultures, 143 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.600 or at least you know, a lot of cultures don't have that whole 144 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.639 concept of religion, but it's more of philosophy or origin stories where they came 145 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:16.200 from, and a lot of them refer to origin stories where they come from 146 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.159 the stars. But it looks like we do have doctor Davies on the line, 147 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:24.320 so let's bring him up with Hello, doctor Davies. Are you there, 148 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:28.960 Yes, Hello, Stories of the technical hiccup. Oh, no problem. 149 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.240 We had a bigger technical hiccup last week, so at least we got 150 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:35.480 you on. Thank goodness, it's wonderful to hear from you, and thank 151 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.600 you so much for coming on the show. It's a pleasure. But I 152 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.279 guess let's start off. We'll start up, you know, the show. 153 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:46.679 We had sent you some information about Hillary Clinton and your book. We'll get 154 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.720 into that later on, and also the Vatican, but I really want to 155 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.080 start off with your new book, The Eerie Silence, and some of what 156 00:12:54.200 --> 00:13:01.279 you're going into there. And really you're talking about the search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence 157 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.399 SETI, which I know you had some involvement with in the past, and 158 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:09.240 how there may be better ways to be looking for intelligent life other than the 159 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:16.360 radio signal way that they're using. Yes, it's fifty years ago this month 160 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.879 that Frank Drake, a then little known American astronomer, decided to start sweeping 161 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.960 the skies with a radio telescope in the hope of stumbling across a message from 162 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:30.120 ET. And this is known as SETI the search for rex of terrestrial intelligence. 163 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:33.840 It's got nothing to do with UFOs or anything of that sort. Sothority 164 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:39.159 scientific search have now involves a scientists in many countries, and it seemed to 165 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:43.519 me that after fifty years of receiving nothing but an eerie silence, maybe the 166 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:48.720 time had come to take stop and ask whether we can improve on what they've 167 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.320 been doing, maybe search for ET in other ways and not just leave it 168 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.159 to a small band of radio astronomers. So my book The Eerie Silence is 169 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:01.440 both a celebration of their heroic effort, but also opportunity to inject some new 170 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:05.039 thinking into this field. And what are some of these methods that you think 171 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:11.039 they can improve upon in their search. A lot of people, I think 172 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.159 are familiar with this subject through the movie Contact, which was based on a 173 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.639 novel by Carl Sagan, and that supposes that there is an alien community somewhere 174 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:26.720 out there that's deliberately beaming messages at us. And the problem with that is 175 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.480 that the nearest such community, even if you ask a wild optimist, is 176 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.120 likely to be hundreds of light years away, let's say a thousand to take 177 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:39.440 a round figure. Because nothing travels faster than light. Anybody living a thousand 178 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.600 light years away is going to see Earth as it was a thousand years ago, 179 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.360 and there were no radio telescopes on Earth at that time, so there's 180 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:52.519 no reason that they should be sending messages directly at us, and so looking 181 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:56.679 for those sorts of messages I think is pretty helpless. But instead we could 182 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:03.679 look for beacons, for example. But imagine being a lighthouse keeper. You're 183 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:09.200 sending out a beam of light sweeping around in all directions. You don't expect 184 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.679 to get a reply. It's a one way type of thing. It's a 185 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:16.519 beacon that just says hello, or avoid displaced, or comes to this place. 186 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:22.960 We should look for radio beacons in the galaxy that some avanced civilization may 187 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.679 have set up a long time ago. Maybe this is now long vanished civilization 188 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:30.879 left as a monument or something. But that requires a rather different type of 189 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.039 technique from what the set of astronomers are using at the moment. So it's 190 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.279 just one way that we might extend the search. There are many other ways 191 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:41.720 suggested in the book as well. Right, some people suggest that there are 192 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:46.320 some dangers around that. In fact, I was watching a television show recently 193 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:50.399 where this scientists figured out how to send out signals and he was really excited 194 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:54.440 and he was telling everybody, Hey, I'm sending out a greeting to aliens 195 00:15:54.440 --> 00:16:00.320 and extraterrestrials out there. And the next scene there's this civilization that said, 196 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.720 we're getting a signal from this planet out here, and they say, okay, 197 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.759 let's go concer it and steal their resources kind of. And some of 198 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.840 the people say, there is maybe a danger to sending out these signals. 199 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:14.799 Do you believe in that? No, I don't. I don't for one 200 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.559 moment. And there are two things I should say. One is that the 201 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:22.279 SETI program doesn't send signals. He just listens. But a few people have 202 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:27.200 sent signals. I was involved myself in a sort of gimmick of that sort 203 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:32.480 recently. There's no danger at all, because you said it yourself that maybe 204 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:36.960 they'll come here for our resources, but they would already know about our resources. 205 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.759 They don't ask to tell them. In other words, if that advance, 206 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.200 they will have been observing Earth. What you have to understand in this 207 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:47.799 game is that Earth is four and a half billion years old. There were 208 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:52.519 stars and planets around billions of years before Earth even existed. So if there 209 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:56.360 are alien civilizations popping up all the time around the galaxy, some of those 210 00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:00.559 will have been around for an immense period of time. And we're not just 211 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.160 talking thousands of years. They're looking ten million, one hundred million, a 212 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:08.559 billion years, and so during that time, there's been plenty of time for 213 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.119 them to come and take Earth if they wanted it. This was an argument 214 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:17.119 used long ago by the famous physicist inn Rico Fermi. It's often called the 215 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:21.559 Fermi paradox. Where is everybody? He said, he realized that the aliens 216 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.200 had plenty of time to come here is that's what they wanted to do, 217 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:29.440 and so they don't need us to tell them. There's no particular reason they 218 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.480 should come here now just because we're here, when they could have come at 219 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:38.000 any time in the past. Hummans have only been around in a communicative phase 220 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:44.319 for a very short period of time. You just mentioned how you were involved 221 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.079 with a project with sending out messages and that did get a lot of press. 222 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.119 It seems like a lot of what you're doing is getting a lot of 223 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.920 press. What were the sort of messages? And I saw these new stories 224 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.880 and they were kind of titled the guy Who's going to speak to Et? 225 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:03.799 Where are the nature of the messages that you sent out? These were just 226 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.680 from young people. We did a Twitter campaign that we said as part of 227 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.640 when I was launching my book in the UK, it was UK Science Week 228 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:17.359 and so just to get young people interested in science, we invited them to 229 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:22.440 submit messages and then we picked the best of the bunch. And these were 230 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:29.440 really just, you know, homespun philosophy. There wasn't anything terribly profound, 231 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:34.000 and it wasn't intended as a serious attempt because we have no idea where to 232 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:40.480 point the telescope. We don't know where any extraterrestrial civilization might be. Now 233 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:44.000 the rules of the game were changed dramatically because we picked up a signal. 234 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:48.319 If we find that there is a transmitting source at a particular place in the 235 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:52.319 galaxy, then that's different. Then we have to be very very careful. 236 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:59.079 And I think I chair something called the SETI Post Detection Task Group, And 237 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:03.519 with our job, who think ahead? What happens to ET calls on my 238 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.759 watch? What do we do next? And one of the things we don't 239 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:12.240 do next is tell everybody where in the sky this source is so any crack 240 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:18.839 pop can command a radio telescope and start blasting away with their own Hence bun 241 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.920 philosophy, setting themselves up as a spokesperson of mankind before we've had a chance 242 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.400 to properly evaluate what we're dealing with. And so that's one thing I think 243 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:33.200 we're all agreed on. So have you discussed and philosophized on what type of 244 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:40.160 messages you would send to such a group? Yes, And in my book 245 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:45.000 I go into this in quite some detail because the way we should look at 246 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.839 this is what I often say to my students. Imagine that Earth was going 247 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:55.880 to be wiped out in ten years, and you have an opportunity to leave 248 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:03.119 a message for posterity, Say something about ourselves, our culture, about our 249 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:07.640 species. What is the thing we most cherish, what is most important? 250 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:12.480 Surely not our physical form, surely not our sports or politics. What are 251 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:17.640 the things that we feel are our greatest achievements. Now many people would think, 252 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.759 you know, the great works of art or literature, But the problem 253 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:26.839 there is that these are hard for people to understand, even from our other 254 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:33.720 cultures and other species. So we're dealing with beings who've evolved completely separately from 255 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:38.000 life on Earth and whose brains are wired in totally different ways. There are 256 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.799 going to appreciate our art on music. But there's one thing that we do 257 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:48.200 have in common, and that is mathematics. Mathematics is universal. The statement 258 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.640 eleven is a prime number is true whether you're here or on Olpha Centaury. 259 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.640 So mathematics is a common currency, a common language, and so of the 260 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:03.200 laws of physics. Him that if out there is some you know, wonderful 261 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.720 transmitter that they've got technology, they understand basic physics, and the laws of 262 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:11.680 physics are of course mathematical relationships. So here we have something we've got in 263 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:18.799 common. We can certainly communicates our level of understanding of mathematical physics. Right, 264 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.400 And so that may sound a bit dull to the average list murder, 265 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.640 right, but it sounds exciting to me. But at least they would they 266 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.640 would think, oh, yeah, they've got as far as you know Einstein's 267 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.039 equations. Well, I want to put you out on one for just a 268 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.079 second. We've got to break to go to But we'll talk more about this 269 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:41.279 and messages to extraterrestrials when we come back with doctor Paul Davies on Open mind 270 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:52.519 Radio. This is Open Minds Radio here again your host UFO paranormal researcher and 271 00:21:52.599 --> 00:22:00.000 journalist Alejandro Rojas. Welcome back to your Open Minds Radio. We are here 272 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.599 with doctor Paul Davies talking about some really cool stuff. We're talking about sending 273 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.759 messages to extraterrestrials. And before the break, doctor Davies, you were talking 274 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:15.000 about sending messages in kind of our common language, which would be math and 275 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.400 physics. So what kind of messages would you send and would it be in 276 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:25.160 hopes to show them that we have an understanding of this common language. Yes, 277 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:32.640 my feeling is that we should send stuff that from mathematical physics that we're 278 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:37.519 very confident about. That is not you know, this year's favor of the 279 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.839 Month theory, that we should, for example, send the equation equals mc 280 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.200 squared. I think it's one that you know, we're pretty confident of simple 281 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.640 equation. Now, of course, we have to define what the terms mean, 282 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:52.279 and so there are other things that we could send. I don't want 283 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.839 to get too technical here, but there are certain pure numbers which don't have 284 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:00.680 any units attached and you don't need to define them, which would be recognized 285 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.960 by any civilization that had got to meet moderate understanding of physics, and so 286 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.839 these are pure numbers, would show that we have reached a certain level of 287 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.799 development, that we understand quantum physics and atomic physics and so on, and 288 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:18.599 so I would start by sending those numbers. Now, what you have to 289 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:22.880 understand here is that this isn't a lively two way conversation that's going to take 290 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.400 place. Supposing this civilization is a thousand night years away, it's going to 291 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:32.000 take a thousand years for our messages to reach them and a thousand years for 292 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:36.799 them to reply. So it's not a question of let's sit down and over 293 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.559 the next few days educate each other into the way we think and learn each 294 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:45.240 other's language, and then we can have a deeper conversation about other things that 295 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.680 we care about, like patriotism or religion or something. You know that's never 296 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.559 going to happen. The only way that would ever happen is if there is 297 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:59.359 some sort of alien probe in the solar system, maybe it's been sitting here 298 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:03.240 for one hundred within years or something dormant, and then the speed of light 299 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.400 issue goes away, because this probe might only be a few light minutes from 300 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:12.039 us, and then it would be possible to have a conversation with the computer 301 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:17.400 on this probe. And that's what that would lead me to a question kind 302 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.599 of A lot of the SETI folks feel that it would be impossible to break 303 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:29.240 the speed of light or for something to travel physically those great distances in a 304 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:33.839 short amount of time. Do you feel right like that as well? In 305 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.519 this game, you have to take the very best understanding of science, and 306 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.039 our best understanding is that the speed of light is an absolute speed limit, 307 00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.039 and that whatever we discover in the future, that isn't going to change. 308 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:48.880 However, as a scientist, I've learned never to use the word impossible, 309 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.880 because of course we have no idea whether some dramatic change in our understanding may 310 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.240 come along in a few years time. So would be very foolish to say 311 00:24:57.279 --> 00:25:00.839 that the last word has been said the nature of space and time. But 312 00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.920 if we take the attitude, well, we can break all the rules of 313 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.759 science, we can throw away the textbooks. Then we just get into idle 314 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:15.759 speculation. It then becomes fairy stories where SETI tries to do science. So, 315 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.799 in other words, why do we even think that there should be intelligent 316 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.839 life out there in the first place. Well, that's based on our understanding 317 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.559 of biology. So we can't cherry pick the things we like, namely the 318 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.759 biology, and thry out the things we don't like, namely the physics. 319 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:34.799 So either we're going to be scientific about this and we take the best science 320 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:40.400 to the best of our understanding and follow through its consequences consistently, or we 321 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:42.599 just throw all of the science out of the window and we just tell each 322 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:47.039 other stories. But then that's pretty valueless, I think, right. And 323 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:51.839 that sort of brings me to our next area of subject, which is the 324 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:56.240 Vatican and their recent interest in astrobiology. And I've read some of your stories 325 00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:04.759 about some of the philosophical issues that their religion the document would have with the 326 00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:10.920 idea of extraterrestrial life. Why do you think they have such a new renewed 327 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:15.279 interest in this subject. As a matter of fact, I'm lecturing about this 328 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:21.119 in Berkeley this evening, and the subject DearS in my heart. So the 329 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:26.480 first thing to point out is, yes, the Vatican recently had an astrobiology 330 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.039 meeting. I was there. It was last November. It was a straightforward 331 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:37.119 scientific meeting. There was no discussion of theology, although it was convened by 332 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.880 the head of the Vatican Observatory, and as you probably know, the Vatican 333 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.200 Observatory is located in Arizona, so in a way this is a local story. 334 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:52.160 But the headquarter quarters are in Castel Gondolfo just outside Rome, and the 335 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:56.000 Vatican Academy of Scientists, which is located in the main Vatican territory, as 336 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.680 one of the oldest scientific academies in the world, where the meeting took place, 337 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:07.640 and so there's nothing particularly unusual about the fact that they're holding scientific meetings. 338 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:12.680 For example, the one they did before astrobiology meeting was about genetically modified 339 00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:18.359 food. So the function of the Vatican Academy of Sciences, it is made 340 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.680 up of non religious people as well as Catholics, is to inform the Catholic 341 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:27.920 Church on scientific matters about which it might need to make policy decisions. So 342 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.920 you see, it's all pretty straightforward. What I don't see in the Catholic 343 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.920 Church, somewhat disappointingly, is an interest in the deep theological implications of et. 344 00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.400 For hundreds of years, there was a very lively debate in the Church 345 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:48.880 about what to do about sentium beings on other planets. And the problem is 346 00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.240 this. It's not a problem for other religions, by the way, it's 347 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.400 not a problem for Muslims or Jews or Buddhists. The real problem for Christians 348 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:03.680 in the following sense. Christians believe that God became incarnate in the figure of 349 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.920 a human being, namely Jesus Christ, in order to save a particular species, 350 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:15.119 namely humans. So Christians don't believe that Jesus Christ came to save the 351 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:21.319 chimpanzees or the whales, or the dolphins, or for that matter, the 352 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:26.319 Neanderthals, who were part of the border family of Homo, but weren't the 353 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:32.279 same species as us homosapiens. And then you see the difficulty is that if 354 00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:34.920 there are advanced aalium beings who are ahead of us, not just scientifically and 355 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.960 technologically, but maybe ethically as well, in some spiritual sense, are more 356 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.359 like saintly beings than we are, are they not to be saved as well? 357 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.640 And so there was this long debate in the church between those who wanted 358 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.880 multiple incarnations. As a priest a friend of mine said, God taking on 359 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.799 different green flesh to save little green men, and those who think that there's 360 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:02.559 a deep heresy that there was the incarnation as unique it happened only one species, 361 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:07.079 one planet, in which case the problem is what does salvation mean for 362 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.160 beings beyond the earth. The Church got itself in a frightful model on this, 363 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:18.480 and you'll see all sorts of statements by theologians and religious scientists over the 364 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:21.680 centuries, and then it all went quiet about fifty years ago. And I 365 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:23.559 think it's done the too halt basket. I'd try to kick it out of 366 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.599 a too heart basket. I think the Church needs to face up to this 367 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.759 and face up to it squarely. Well. Last year, and you're probably 368 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.799 aware of this as well, the gentleman who runs the Vatican Observatory, Father 369 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:40.720 Funez, he did come out with something that he wrote in the Vatican Journal 370 00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:45.880 that made a lot of news about our space brothers and extraterrestrials and it's okay 371 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.559 to believe in them, and we don't have to be fearful. And he 372 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.839 did skirt the issue that you're speaking of now. But I did notice at 373 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:59.920 least some papers and some kind of rebirth of that debate a little bit after 374 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.400 he made that mention, right, and he was the one who convened the 375 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:06.839 meeting in the Vatican, and as I said, we didn't get into the 376 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:11.519 theological stuff. In my book I quote his memorable phrase, the extraterrestrial is 377 00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:18.319 my brother. But I you know, I have to say that he did 378 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:23.079 scare the issue. And his predecessor, father George Kaine, an old friend 379 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:30.720 of mine and a wonderful astrobiologist and astronomer, I think it was a little 380 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.680 bit more upfront. In fact, I can actually quote what he's written on 381 00:30:34.759 --> 00:30:38.440 this if we've just got a moment. He said, God chose a very 382 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.720 specific way to redeem human beings. He sent his only son, Jesus to 383 00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.559 them, and Jesus gave up his life so that human beings would be saved 384 00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:51.599 from their sin. Okay, that's standard. Did God do this for extraterrestrials. 385 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:56.920 Theologians must accept the serious responsibility to rethink some fundamental realities within the context 386 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.799 of religious belief. What is a human being? Jesus Christ fully a human 387 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.400 being exists on more than one planet at more than one time. So he's 388 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.319 raising the question in a very up from way because he's not providing us with 389 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.440 an answer. Right, we do have this he's compromsing it great. Yeah, 390 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:17.920 we do have to take a small break right now, and then we'll 391 00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:21.920 come back to talk more about this really interesting and we do have a chat 392 00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:23.960 that goes on where we've got a couple of questions there too for you. 393 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:29.000 So we'll be right back with open Minds Radio. We are with doctor Paul 394 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:47.640 Davies. Stay tuned, Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now former 395 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.400 official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network, your host of Open Minds Radio, 396 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:56.920 Alejandro Rojas, Welcome back. This is a Lejandro Rojas. You're listening to 397 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.200 open Minds Radio and we have doctor Paul Davis on and what a great talk. 398 00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.359 This is a lot of fun and I want to let everybody know you 399 00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:07.880 can get his new book and his other books and see what he's up to 400 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:14.119 at Cosmos dot a, s U dot ed u. The new book, 401 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:19.039 I want to remind you is The Eerie Silence and his website is Cosmos dot 402 00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:23.559 A, s U dot edu. So, doctor Davis, I had to 403 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:27.240 cut you off when you were talking about that quote, But did you get 404 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.279 that you know that fully out? I did, Yes, I got to 405 00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:36.480 the end of the quote first. So I'm simply saying that there are a 406 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:43.519 handful of Christian theologians who these days are prepared to face squarely the dilemma of 407 00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:49.440 extraterrestrial being the problem the problem of the incarnation, which, as I remarked, 408 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.519 is not a problem for other religions. I think, yeah, And 409 00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:57.359 that's why I loved reading about what you had to say about all of that 410 00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.160 in the past, because I knew there were issues. I grew up as 411 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.599 a Roman Catholic, and I knew those philosophies, and I hear those things 412 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.880 here and there. You know, even within our community, people debating the 413 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:13.599 philosophies behind that. So and it does seem like something that at some point 414 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.920 they're going to really need to tackle base on, and at least they're kind 415 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:22.960 of touching upon it. Yes, I think my attitude is that if you 416 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:29.559 think about all the Valley who over Darwin's theory of evolution, well they've had 417 00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:31.960 a few decades that sort of come to terms with that. But if we 418 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:38.559 were to get suddenly evidence, incontrovertible evidence that we're not alone in the universe, 419 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:45.640 this could be very sudden and very destabilizing. And so for those people 420 00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:50.799 who care about the future of the Christian religion does have a prepared position of 421 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.960 these in cases should happen now, someone asked in the Chat, and I 422 00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:00.640 guess I can preface this with a story from the Royal Society Astrobiological Conference, 423 00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:02.720 which I know you attended as well, Nick, that one too. Yes, 424 00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:07.599 a friend of ours, Nick Pope, who worked for the mob investigating 425 00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:12.760 UFOs, was also there and he found it interesting that at lunch, and 426 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:17.159 you know, on off time, a lot of these scientists really were into 427 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.400 speculating about all the passibilities of what may be going on right now related to 428 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:29.920 his work. And he found that really fun, and he was surprised how 429 00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:34.480 open a lot of these scientists were. Someone in the chat was asking, 430 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:39.719 did you find that same type of atmosphere at the Vatican's conference? Well, 431 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:45.960 the Vatican conference was a closed conference just for astrobiologists, and I wanted to 432 00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:52.880 say right it outside that astrobiology is almost all not about looking for intelligent dadias. 433 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:57.960 It's about whether there's microbial life or maths for example. So it's almost 434 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:01.639 all trying to understand the origin of life on Earth. It's astronomical environment, 435 00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:08.440 organic molecules in space, those sorts of straightforward technical things, and there was 436 00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:15.559 only a small components about SETI. The Conference of the Royal Society was a 437 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:20.559 public conference. There was an audience and so it was not a not a 438 00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:27.679 closed meeting, and so for that reason there was a lot more widely varying 439 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:31.280 discussion. So I think it was these raw, different sorts of meetings, 440 00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:37.679 right. So you didn't find that sort of behind the scenes type of conversation 441 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:44.039 at the Vatican. No, we had just ordinary scientific sessions and you know, 442 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:46.880 lunches and dinners and so on. We didn't need to talk behind the 443 00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:52.559 scenes because we could talk openly at the meeting itself. There really wasn't an 444 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:58.039 issue. So that's what's great. That's what I love about your work is 445 00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:02.079 that you get more into philosophying around some of these concepts, such as what 446 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:07.199 will it mean if we discover extra trestrall ha been even going further into the 447 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:14.840 possibility of intelligent extra trestural. Absolutely, that's what interests me, who always 448 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:19.320 has I might say I've had an interest in searching for extra tress in intelligence 449 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:23.880 ever since Frank Drake started it in nineteen sixty, So you know, I've 450 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.760 been in the game for a long time, and I've been closely associated with 451 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:35.440 the SETI program and have written about this and have held workshops at Arizona State 452 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:39.920 University on this topic. And so you know, I feel I'm a whirl 453 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:45.679 wisher an occasional contributor to the subject. Right, So did Drake. It 454 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:51.079 was his work that really sparked your interest. Well, Frank Drake was the 455 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:53.880 pioneer who began this in nineteen sixty and I might say Fank is still in 456 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.800 the game. I saw him recently at the London meeting. We went out 457 00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:04.119 to dinner together. I dedicated my book to him. It says something about 458 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:10.239 the extraordinary vision of the man that after fifty years of searching the skies hoping 459 00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:15.480 to pick up a message from ET and getting only an eerie silence, he's 460 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:19.920 never the less upbeat about the prospects for the SETI program. So he's a 461 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:22.679 bit of a hero of mine. But the thrust of the book is, 462 00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:29.679 alongside doing traditional SETI looking for so called narrowband signals coming from specific sources in 463 00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:34.119 the sky, we should be greatly broadening the search, and earlier I talked 464 00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:37.039 about looking for beacons, but we could look for other things as well, 465 00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:44.880 signs of large scale astro engineering or only sort of anomaly in astronomy that might 466 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.320 stand out and might suggest that it is the footprint of alien technology. We 467 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.800 then have to pick up a message to answer the question are we alone in 468 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:55.880 the universe. We merely have to see that there's somebody out there doing something. 469 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.519 We might not know what they're doing, but it has to be some 470 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:06.559 evidence of some technology at work, and then we could proclaim that, you 471 00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:12.039 know, over there the particular style, in a particular direction, there is 472 00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:19.480 the footprints of advanced technology. Now, someone who felt that there was already 473 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:24.920 discovery of the footprint of advanced technology was Lawrence Rockefeller, when he was trying 474 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:31.679 to with his initiative get the Clintons really into the subject and looking into secret 475 00:38:31.719 --> 00:38:37.480 documents and things like that. And we were excited to find in some pictures 476 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:42.480 because we thought in this visit that the Clinton's made to one of Rockefeller's ranch, 477 00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.239 that they were discussing this topic. And then we found some more evidence 478 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:50.760 of that when in some of these pictures, Hillary Clinton is holding one of 479 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:54.360 your books, the book that's correct, Yes, a book Kawi alone, 480 00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:58.920 which I wrote back in the early nineties. It was based on some lectures 481 00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:07.760 I gave in its and my first skirmish with this particular topic. And it 482 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.320 does appear that she's carrying a copy of that book. Correct. Were you 483 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:15.360 aware that the Clintons were aware of your work? No, it was news 484 00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:20.360 to me when somebody sent me a copy of that picture. I haven't had 485 00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.119 an opportunity to discuss it with Hillary Clinton or anybody else. I have had 486 00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:27.679 some exchanges with Lawrence Rockefeller, but not in recent years. Oh great, 487 00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:31.920 And was he inquiring just kind of wanting to know about some of your ideas. 488 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:36.760 Yes, that's right. He was just invited me to come and sit 489 00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:38.480 down and talk about them. But I haven't had that opportunity, I'm afraid. 490 00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.880 Yeah, it seems like that would have been You would have been the 491 00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:45.320 type of person that he would want to include in a think tank over you 492 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:52.000 know, the implications should he prove what he believed to be true? Yes, 493 00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:57.039 I'm the person. I don't deny it. Of course, I'm involved 494 00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:02.159 in many research projects, many the big questions. In fact, the center 495 00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:07.320 Iran at Arizona State University called the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts and Science, 496 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:13.920 has his motto confronting the big Question. So we deal with not just intelligent 497 00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.880 life and space, but we deal with the origin of the universe and the 498 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:22.679 origin of life, and the destiny of mankind, and time travel and space 499 00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.599 travel, and you know, a whole bunch of fun stuff. I like 500 00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:30.000 to say to people, we research all those things that people love to discuss 501 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:35.000 at dinn about it, right, all the fun staff And speaking of someone 502 00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:38.760 who does the research on this fun stuff, Grant Cameron, who runs PRESIDENTIALUFO 503 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:44.199 dot com. He actually has a tight relationship with the Clinton Library, and 504 00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:49.880 he sent this information to the Clinton Library secretary he works with, and she 505 00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:53.639 sent it, I guess through a lot of Hillary Clinton's staff. So at 506 00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:58.760 least there's some discussion there. So hopefully you'll hear from Hillary when she's got 507 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:04.400 some time. Well, that's right, it's Hillary knows my email address. 508 00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:08.280 Then there's not the slightest problem I look forward to. Yeah, So when 509 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:15.719 it comes to these ideas of the possibility that there is some evidence that we 510 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:22.239 have intelligent extraterrestrial contact going on right now, how do you feel about some 511 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.679 of that evidence that you've seen? Well, what I've done in the book 512 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:29.920 is look at it to deal with it very carefully. I think a lot 513 00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:34.000 of times it's just dismissive about the whole UFO scene. And I said earlier 514 00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.480 that SETI Signs has distanced themselves from it. Well, I knew Alan Heinek, 515 00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:43.960 who was head of the Chief Scientific Advisor the US Air Force Project Blue 516 00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.039 Book. I visited him at his home. I looked through many of his 517 00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:52.320 reports. We discussed on a number of occasions what was behind these various stories. 518 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.199 And he was the one who coined the term close encounters of the fair 519 00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:01.800 kind, right. And I investigated some reports in Britain, where I was 520 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.320 living at the time, and I think I managed to explain some of them, 521 00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:07.400 and I took a great deal of interest in it. And so I 522 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.440 deal with that in the book and I explain why I think this is a 523 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.239 different set of problems. Right. Unlike many people, I'm not dismissive about 524 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.480 people who make who file these reports. I don't think they just you know, 525 00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:22.480 crackpots and wives. I think they have genuine experiences, right. And 526 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:25.800 then people are going to have to read your book to get more information on 527 00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.320 that because we are out of time. So thank you so much for being 528 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:34.519 on the show. This is really informational, a lot of fun for me. 529 00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:38.880 Next week we've got Robert salaz On who was at an Air Force base 530 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:44.199 when nuclear missiles were shut down, when UFOs were seen over the base, 531 00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:45.800 so it's going to be a great show. Join us next week, and 532 00:42:45.880 --> 00:43:01.039 thanks for listening to Open Minds Radio. Keep forget it smooth so much you 533 00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:05.119 was was your feet, the cracks and clas