1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,480 I'm certainly saying that that is their policy, and I think you should take 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,039 their words seriously. Like, I work seven days a week. But but 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:13,359 I I'm not expecting others to do that. Offer me money, offer me 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:19,280 power, I don't care. Yeah, this this is actually where, UM, 5 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,879 I don't actually have an office here. I either walk the floor or 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,239 I hold meetings in this room. Okay, And this room allows me to 7 00:00:27,359 --> 00:00:32,000 see what's going on with production while I'm holding meetings. Is there one particular 8 00:00:32,039 --> 00:00:35,119 production that you focus on when you're here or that you sort of your eyes 9 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,039 always go to, or you you actually walk over to. Um, Well, 10 00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:42,240 this is the end of line that we're seeing here. So if if 11 00:00:42,439 --> 00:00:47,240 cars aren't moving, um, that means there's some blockage upstream. And then 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,960 I can go and see what that blockage is. UM. So I think 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,159 we might be on a break right now. But this if this, this 14 00:00:55,719 --> 00:00:59,240 is if this, if a vehicle end of line is not moving, that 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,359 means there's something up stream that's wrong. Got it. Well, it's been 16 00:01:02,359 --> 00:01:04,120 amazing just to walk around the facility a bit and get a sense for the 17 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:07,519 size. All right, you just finished your annual meeting. You took a 18 00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:12,120 lot of questions from a very eager audience. I feel like most of it 19 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,599 you've shared before, but there was some news and I want to start there. 20 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:19,879 Advertising. You got a big applause. You didn't sound like you were 21 00:01:19,879 --> 00:01:23,200 going to advertise that much, but you did at least seem to open the 22 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:27,439 way to saying, Okay, we might consider doing some advertising. Why. 23 00:01:29,599 --> 00:01:33,439 Well, I mean, I've believen listened to listening to shareholders, and I 24 00:01:33,439 --> 00:01:37,439 actually was surprised by the level of enthusiasm for advertising, since we are not 25 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,280 historically done that. But there perhaps is some good logic to it in that 26 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,120 if we're simply saying that information by I say that the Tesla Twitter account on 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,120 my Twitter account, we're somewhat preaching to the converted and not reaching people that 28 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,040 are not already convinced. Essentially, so I think they're probably have a good 29 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,760 point. Well, I mean, I think it's worth a try and we'll 30 00:02:00,799 --> 00:02:05,120 see, we'll see how factor Do you have any idea how you'd like to 31 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,240 try it or what that would involve. Um Well, I mean I have 32 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:15,360 some general thoughts about advertising. Um that that you know, if advertising is 33 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:23,439 informative, um and and entertaining, then it is it can start to approach 34 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:30,479 content. UM. So I think sometimes advertising is perhaps a non informative or 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:36,199 perhaps in some cases a bit misleading. Um. And in fact, we've 36 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,599 lost some advertisers on Twitter because community notes applies to advertising too, and so 37 00:02:40,719 --> 00:02:47,439 if somebody advertises something that isn't, um perhaps a bit inaccurate, then it 38 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:52,759 gets community noted, and then they get mad and stop advertising. But we're 39 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,759 we're care enough about the truth that we're willing to give out give up advertising 40 00:02:57,759 --> 00:03:02,840 dollars on Twitter, even if in order to having the worst, the least 41 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:07,360 inaccurate, right, And I want to talk about that, but I want 42 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,520 to obviously spend some time on Tesla again. Back to adds though, I 43 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,680 mean, am I going to start to see test lads during the NFL broadcast 44 00:03:13,759 --> 00:03:17,840 on a given Sunday Monday Thursday? The NFL's always on, well bar in 45 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,960 mind. I mean I only just agree to it, so it's not like 46 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,080 I have a pulle formal strategy. Okay, Well, how much time does 47 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,639 go into when you think about these things? I mean, was it something 48 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,000 you decided to do up on stage or at least did you know coming in? 49 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:32,919 I may you know this comes up that I may go there. No, 50 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,639 I mean the questions are not scripted in any way, right, So 51 00:03:38,639 --> 00:03:40,439 so in that moment, you just said, all right, I'll do some 52 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:45,240 ads. That's right. So we're only like twenty minutes later and I'm asking 53 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,759 you detailed questions. Yeah, have any answers? I guess I'm not sure 54 00:03:47,759 --> 00:03:50,800 what the most spectrum thing is, except that, like I said, I 55 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:57,080 believe that advertising should be informative about a product. It should be ideally esthetically 56 00:03:57,159 --> 00:04:00,639 pleasing, should be you know, beautiful to some autistic element to it, 57 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,479 and it should be something that you don't regret watching after it's done. And 58 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:12,039 I think if advertising fits those criteria, that it starts to approach content, 59 00:04:12,199 --> 00:04:16,199 and you wan't advertising that is as close to content as possible such that you 60 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,519 don't regret the time you spent watching it. But you did say something as 61 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:23,319 well, which is that you know you've been preaching in the converted. You 62 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:28,399 mentioned a few statistics for example, about safety, about price during the meeting. 63 00:04:28,439 --> 00:04:31,519 It may not be fully understood by the general auto bio public at large. 64 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,519 Yeah, so a lot of people still think teslas are super expensive because 65 00:04:36,519 --> 00:04:42,600 we did start out with an expensive sports car, then slightly less expensive sedan 66 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,319 and suv. But now we're at the point where the starting price of a 67 00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:49,439 Tesla is actually below the average selling price of a car in the United States. 68 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:56,399 So it Teslas are actually much more affordable than people realize, and so 69 00:04:57,439 --> 00:05:00,079 we should just make sure people at least know that right and that it tells 70 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:04,480 is also the safest cars in the road US in so many ways that people 71 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:10,040 actually a lot of people with Tesla don't even know. Um, you know, 72 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,199 sort of the cabin overheat protection for example, or the fact that we 73 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:20,040 continuously update the automatic emergency breaking software and the way the airbags deploy. So 74 00:05:20,399 --> 00:05:23,720 we look, we look at an accident, we say, is there anything 75 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,759 we could do from a software standpoint to improve the cars that are already on 76 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,560 the road, And then what can we update in the design to improve safety? 77 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:36,439 So, UM, and I think that you know, the statistics speak 78 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:40,720 for themselves. This is not simply a matter of opinion. It's the statistically 79 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,160 it's safer than anything else. Um, you mentioned affordability. It's something you 80 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,120 discussed during your meeting. You've also discussed it a bit on the call on 81 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,199 the earnings call recently, as well, in relation to the Federal Reserve raising 82 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:55,920 interest rates and obviously the monthly cost for a typical auto buyer, you think 83 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,480 it's going to be a tough twelve months ahead. You've said that a few 84 00:05:58,519 --> 00:06:03,480 times, yes before everyone not just has understood. So it's um, I 85 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:08,439 mean simply, uh, you know you can you can think of raising the 86 00:06:08,439 --> 00:06:11,839 FRED rate as as somewhat of a brake pedal and the economy frankly, it's 87 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,600 so it's um. It makes a lot of things more expensive, certainly things 88 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,000 that are bought with credit, but then it has downstream effects on on even 89 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,160 things that are on board with credit. So um. You know, if 90 00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:28,920 if the car payment or your home mortgage payment is absorbing more of your monthly 91 00:06:28,959 --> 00:06:31,560 budget, then you have less to money to buy other things. So actually 92 00:06:31,759 --> 00:06:35,040 it affects everything, even those that aren't things that are important on credit. 93 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:41,160 So UM. And my concern with the with the way that the Federal Reserve 94 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,160 is making decisions is that they they're just operating with um too much latency. 95 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,600 Basically, the data is somewhat stale, so they So the federals was was 96 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:55,199 slow to raise interest rates um and and now I think they are slow to 97 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,360 they're going to be slow to lower them. That's that that appears to be 98 00:06:58,439 --> 00:07:00,519 the case. Yeah, that may well be. We spent a lot of 99 00:07:00,519 --> 00:07:03,120 time talking about that is a bad imagine, perhaps too much. But when 100 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,040 it comes to latency, that takes me to pricing, because you've discussed the 101 00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:11,800 lack of latency in your own ability to understand exactly what's going on in the 102 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,439 market for those cars as opposed to Yeah, many of the legacy and other 103 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Yes. Yes, we have real time information on demand so um, so 104 00:07:23,079 --> 00:07:26,319 we know how many people place an order for it has yesterday, so the 105 00:07:26,519 --> 00:07:31,879 computer calculates that all um. And literally every day we get a you know, 106 00:07:32,079 --> 00:07:38,199 an automated email to the exact staff that says how many people place an 107 00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:42,600 order in which countries for which cars, So we know what demand, we 108 00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:46,720 know, we know what the orders were yesterday. Um. And you don't 109 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,199 want to overreact to these things because sometimes you get like little dips for you 110 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,680 know, reasons that are hard to explain. Do you look at them every 111 00:07:53,759 --> 00:07:57,439 day? Yeah? Yeah, um, But like I said, you don't 112 00:07:57,439 --> 00:08:00,639 want to over react to to you know, if like the week is slow 113 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:05,360 or something, you don't overreact to that. Um. But if but if 114 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,480 you look at the trend, say for the over two weeks span or something 115 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:13,680 like that, you can see that, Okay, there's this for some reason 116 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:20,600 the demand is is less than it was or it's higher. Um, just 117 00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:24,120 pricing. Yeah, yeah that I mean is that Are you almost like an 118 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,519 airline at this point in terms of kind of dynamic pricing model? Yes, 119 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:37,879 so, um, we we're basically adjust pricing to match demand. Um. 120 00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:41,480 And um we obviously did a big price drop in Q one, but now 121 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:46,200 January is is usually a terrible time for car binding. Um, so there's 122 00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:50,399 there's seasonality to car purchases. Um with January January, January is often the 123 00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:56,480 worst month. So um, so we did, we did a big price 124 00:08:56,519 --> 00:09:00,480 drop and then and then then recently we did we did a pricing care So, 125 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:07,159 as I mentioned to the audience, the realities that all companies do significant. 126 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,440 All car companies make significant adjustments to price because you've got the MSRP number. 127 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,799 And then if demand is high, a dealers will charge some premium of 128 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,960 MSRP. If demand is lower, they will have manufacturing incentives, so that 129 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,200 you can actually see a very big difference over the course of say six months 130 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,919 between the peak to trough of all cars. It's just that Tesla is so 131 00:09:31,039 --> 00:09:37,080 immediate and obviously transparent. It's not a question of MSRP and then mock ups 132 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:41,759 or discounts. Right, But after your last earnings, a lot of investors 133 00:09:41,759 --> 00:09:45,320 came away wanting to talk about your margins and wanting to talk about your pricing 134 00:09:45,639 --> 00:09:48,159 in particular. I think you know, you talked about vehicle cost reduction. 135 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:54,399 You sort of even said it's hard to explain the profundity of technically selling cars 136 00:09:54,399 --> 00:10:00,879 now for no profit and still yielding tremendous economics over time. Yes, I'd 137 00:10:00,919 --> 00:10:03,559 like you to explain a little bit more of what that means. You did 138 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,759 a bit in the meeting as well. You're talking about sort of the move 139 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:11,639 I think from manual to autonomous and the value add that will come along with 140 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,480 that. But explain to people why that's profound and why conceivably not that you 141 00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:20,360 want to You could sell automobiles now for no profit and still make enormous profit 142 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:26,200 in the future. Yeah, So Tesla is the only car company selling cars 143 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,879 that where we believe the car is capable of achieving full autonomy with a software 144 00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:37,840 update. So the value of a folios or folio autonomous car is we think 145 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,840 perhaps five times more valuable than an autonomous car. Why, well, the 146 00:10:45,919 --> 00:10:48,600 utility of a car, typically a passenger car is going to be maybe ten 147 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,440 ten hours a week, maybe twelve if you say, like somebody's going to 148 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,080 drive an hour and a half a day on average, so maybe an hour 149 00:10:58,159 --> 00:11:01,639 commute per day and then an occasional long trip. But figure it's like ten 150 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:07,200 twelve hours a week is typical for um, a passenger vehicle. UM. 151 00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:13,360 And then uh, you also have a lot of costs associated with parking. 152 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,600 You need a garage or we've got to buy a parking space, or you've 153 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,799 got to get a you know, got a parking ticket at the at the 154 00:11:18,799 --> 00:11:20,919 mole. It's there's there's a lot of costs associated with cars. UM. 155 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,120 And uh, Now if you've got a car that's autonomous, UM, that 156 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:31,919 can go around and essentially be like an autonomous uber, UM, the utility 157 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:37,879 I think is going to be what it's going to be much higher perhaps you 158 00:11:37,879 --> 00:11:39,919 know. And then this again there was there's so much speculative I understand we're 159 00:11:39,919 --> 00:11:43,039 talking about robot taxis here at least what people have called and you have called 160 00:11:43,159 --> 00:11:48,480 Yeah, autonomous uber is what you think about. So perhaps the utility there 161 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,000 would be on the order of fifty hours a week. It's just a guess, 162 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:54,159 say there's one hundred and sixty eight hours a week. Um, and 163 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:58,960 probably as rough guess an autonomous car is will be able to be active instead 164 00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:03,919 of four or four ten hours a week, probably in argue for about fifty 165 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,759 But it's the same car, so the and it costs the same to build. 166 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,240 Um, you're I want to understand the business model a little bit because 167 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,279 I'm buying the car and instead of it parking at my lot while I'm working, 168 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:20,279 it goes off and picks people up and drops them off. Yes, 169 00:12:20,759 --> 00:12:24,320 who's making the money from that? I assume that that's the value add you're 170 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,559 talking about. Is it a revenue share? Do you have this model sort 171 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,559 of took planned out specifically? Is how it would look? Um? Yeah, 172 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,519 it's it's it's been in the tens of terms and conditions for for quite 173 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:39,759 a long time. It has. Yeah, So the the owner of the 174 00:12:39,759 --> 00:12:43,759 car would make I don't know some amount, who knows what it'd be, 175 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:50,080 but perhaps uh, you know, it could be fifty fifty split or seventy 176 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,000 thirty. I don't know, but um, the cars are are if you 177 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,879 buy it tells the car, it can only be used in to tells a 178 00:12:56,879 --> 00:13:01,919 network. It cannot be used in someone else's network. So um that that 179 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,639 means that if the car is able to be used five times as much and 180 00:13:05,799 --> 00:13:15,120 and Tesla is likely to make basically two or three times the original value or 181 00:13:15,159 --> 00:13:20,320 sale value of the car um in in Robotaxi revenue. Right, this is 182 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,919 this is gigantic, um ass. It'll be like selling cars for software margins 183 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:33,600 because in fact it is software, right. So um, instead of effectively 184 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:39,120 having say twenty five cent margins, it might be seventy seventy percent or more. 185 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:48,159 Um and I mean the free cashal associated with that. It is actually 186 00:13:48,159 --> 00:13:52,919 truly a staggering amount. The best analysis that I've seen thus far about this 187 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,159 is from Kathy Woods from arc in Best. We know Kathy, well, 188 00:13:56,279 --> 00:14:00,679 yeah, she's great. Ye I would assume you like her obviously, she's 189 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,679 been a used proponent of your stock for many years. Was right, by 190 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:09,320 the way, very early on she was right yeah. Um, So I 191 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,679 thought she was being optimistic, but I she turned out to be in fact 192 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,279 almost spot on. Yeah. Um And I am familiar somewhere with her analysis. 193 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,440 What a lot of investors come back to where everybody is your promises of 194 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,919 full autonomy. Um, and you seem to be saying again it's close. 195 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:31,200 Yeah, you said it before, you know that. Yes, I mean 196 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:37,639 you said nineteen, I think about twenty and I've certainly been Um. You 197 00:14:37,679 --> 00:14:41,120 know, if I guess I have somewhat of a pathological optimism. Um, 198 00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:43,039 well, it works, by the way, because you don't end up with 199 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,159 this unless you're optimistic. But yeah, exactly. I mean, who would 200 00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:50,519 try to do this and this and rockets if they weren't pathologically optim No, 201 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,720 you'd have to be. Yeah, so there's a you know, there's a 202 00:14:54,759 --> 00:14:56,360 double edged sword. I guess. Um. But but you know, do 203 00:14:56,399 --> 00:14:58,759 you ever say to yourself, all right, I'm getting a little ahead of 204 00:14:58,759 --> 00:15:01,039 mysel self here. I mean when you said again, we're going to have 205 00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:03,679 full autonomy. No, I didn't say, well, I said, I 206 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,399 think you think, my opinion, we probably will. Okay, Right, 207 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,679 there's a number of qualifiers there. I think my opinion, we probably will. 208 00:15:11,759 --> 00:15:16,240 So what do you think in your opinion you probably will win? I 209 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:18,679 mean, it does look like it's going to happen this year. Why, 210 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,399 well, we're not at the point where the car can drive on highways and 211 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:35,279 entities with and where a human intervention is extremely rare. So I mean, 212 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:41,200 just I was able to drive for several days just dropping a navigation pen in 213 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:45,000 random locations in the Greater Wilson area with no interventions, and the same in 214 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,799 San Francisco, which is a very difficult place to drive. So I mean 215 00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:54,080 it's you've got bus lanes, one way streets, you know, so it's 216 00:15:54,159 --> 00:15:58,480 quite quite a challenging a homeless situation. You were driving recently in San Francisco 217 00:15:58,559 --> 00:16:00,600 where the car was. I have been doing doing that quite a lot because 218 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:07,200 of the Twitter's headquartered quarter. Maybe less, maybe a little less soon. 219 00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:11,440 Yeah, well we'll get to that. But go finish your point though, 220 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:17,639 in terms of why you feel more, why you're optimistic for that reason, 221 00:16:17,639 --> 00:16:22,360 which is that the I've actually never, um, the first time I've had 222 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:30,840 a situation where there's been several days in a row going picking random destinations and 223 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:36,840 having no safety related intervention, right, so the first time ever. Um. 224 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,720 I want to get to a lot of other topics, but you know, 225 00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:44,440 I am curious on Tesla in particular. UM. One thing I haven't 226 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,919 heard you discuss is the impact on your business of the Inflation Reduction Act. 227 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,039 At least I haven't heard it. Maybe you've discussed it. Um. You 228 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,200 know Adam Jonas who follows your company. Morgan Stanley said, we believe the 229 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,600 IRA is so advantageous to Tesla in terms of absolute dollars versus a legacy AMS 230 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:03,599 it could equal as much as forty five percent of current earnings per share. 231 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,799 Is the IRA going to be usually beneficial to your company? I think I'm 232 00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:14,599 not sure it'd be it's gonna be that beneficial. Um Uh, there's UM. 233 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,039 There are. There are significant advantages for having domestic production of batteries, 234 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:29,359 which I think is important for strategic reasons. You know. I think as 235 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:33,440 we moved to an electric transport economy, I think it's important for the United 236 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,119 States to UM have some independence with respect to battery production, including all of 237 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,359 the precursors necessary for a battery. So the the IRA strongly instands that, 238 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:52,279 UM, and I think that will prove to be something of important of national 239 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,920 strategic importance in the future. So I'm not sure I would say it's as 240 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,960 good as say a forty five percent increase in earnings to share or it's it's 241 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,799 a it's it's helpful. Yeah, yeah, I would say it's maybe it's 242 00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:10,400 a half that or something, Okay, but I mean it is quite significant. 243 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,640 Have you mapped to that at all? Do you have a sense. 244 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,279 I mean, obviously you talk about storage, for example, which is so 245 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,880 important. You spend time on that as well. The megapac Is it beneficial 246 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,799 in that particular area beyond obviously the credits, the tax credits that certain people 247 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:26,000 get for buying a Teslam. Yeah, there's two. There's really two posts 248 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:34,079 to the IRA. There's the incentive for battery manufacturing um. And it's really 249 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,799 quite a detail. It's it's actually a very well written uh well in that 250 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,400 it's it really makes sure that you can't game it. You know, so 251 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,440 you actually have to build the batteries in the US, and you actually have 252 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,640 to build the precursis to the batteries. Um. But if you do it 253 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:55,240 is um uh. I believe thirty dollars at the at the cell level and 254 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,519 fifteen dollars at the pack level. I believe, if article correctly so, 255 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,759 that that that is very significant for batteries and then you've got the consumer tax 256 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:11,000 credit for evs provided they are built in the US. Uh and end that 257 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:15,319 the package built in the US. So UM, no, this this this 258 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,640 is the really the first time that we've we've actually had the the first time 259 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,799 in many years that Tesla has actually had the consumer tax credit. Yes, 260 00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:29,480 because we actually exceeded the limit for the consumer at tax credit several years ago. 261 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,119 Um. And so up until December until January this year, I should 262 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,440 say, there was no consumer attax in center to buy a Tesla, but 263 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,079 there was for the other car companies because they have not reached They've not made 264 00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:45,440 that many electric cars, right, they didn't reach their limit. Yeah. 265 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,440 Um. You know, before I wrap on Tesla, I would like to 266 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,920 get to China, which is obviously an important market for you. Um. 267 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,039 You know, I noticed that chart you put up by D's the only company 268 00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:57,920 that seems to be making money so far. Um, are you concerned at 269 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,680 all about U, you know, ruthless pricing sort of at the low end 270 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,519 in the Chinese market and what that will mean to your market share? Though? 271 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,200 Um? Well, currently a limitation UM with is that is the is 272 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:18,359 the production rate of our Shanghai factory it's not demand so UM. I mean, 273 00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:29,359 so that's there's some constraints on our ability to expand in China and UM, 274 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:32,200 and so it's we're making as many card as we can. It's not 275 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,400 a demand issue, and you can be making batteries soon as well. Yes, 276 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:41,799 yes, UM for the Mega pac UM for for mostly for non US 277 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,079 markets. Yeah. So are you concerned at all about the growing belligerence between 278 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,519 China and the US? UM. I think that should be a concern for 279 00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:55,480 everyone. I think you're right. I think it is shared by many people 280 00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:59,720 who run large organizations and smaller ones. Do you think, for example, 281 00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:07,079 wild will make a move to take control of Taiwan The official officially, the 282 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:15,119 official policy of China is that Taiwan should be integrated. One does not need 283 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,519 to read between the lines. One consintuely read the lines. Do you think 284 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:25,960 so. I think there's a certain there's some inevitability to the situation that would 285 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:32,000 not be good for Tesla conceivably, or for any any company in the world. 286 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,000 Frankly, yes, or any company in the world. I think most 287 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:42,039 almost no one really realizes that the Chinese economy and the global the rest of 288 00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:47,839 the global economy are like conjoin twins, it would be like trying to separate 289 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,279 conjoin twins. That that's the severity of the situation. UM. And it's 290 00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:57,920 actually worse for for a lot of other companies than it is for for Tesla. 291 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,160 I mean, I'm not sure sure where you're gonna get an iPhone, 292 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,680 for example. UM, and Apple's recently started doing some some sort of small 293 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,960 amount of production in India. But it's tiny con tiny not to mention an 294 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,920 advanced semiconductor chip if they take over Taiwan Semi. Correct, you design your 295 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,400 own chips, but you manufacture them at Taiwan Semi too, Right, we 296 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,000 do some we do. We do. We use Samsung an TSMC UM. 297 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,640 But uh, you seem to think it's it's likely to happen. I'm only 298 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,680 saying that that is their policy, and I think you should take the word 299 00:22:33,759 --> 00:22:40,480 seriously. They mean it. Um. You know your time. I think 300 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,279 you've said, in fact some of the brief conversations we've had, you know, 301 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:45,599 it's one of the most valuable things in your own control. And I 302 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,839 am curious now and Tesla investors sort of seemed to rejoice at the announcement of 303 00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:52,480 a new CEO at Twitter in part because they thought, well, he's going 304 00:22:52,519 --> 00:22:56,920 to have more time for Tesla. That's true, Is it true? How 305 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,920 do you see sort of allocating your time now that you will suit no longer 306 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:07,000 be the CEO of Twitter? Um? Yeah, so, um, you 307 00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:10,440 know it was. It was really very pretty challenging, um situation at the 308 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,920 point which the Twitter A position closed because um, you know, in rough 309 00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:18,599 terms, uh, that there was a billion and a half dollars of debts 310 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,960 osing was added. Um. While at the same time, um, there 311 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,519 was a massive psyche exactly you've said you were four months away from bankruptcy. 312 00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:30,599 It was three billion dollars in a year, conceivably negative three billion dollars cash 313 00:23:30,599 --> 00:23:32,680 flow, and had a billion billion dollars in the bank. Yeah. Um, 314 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,880 no, that's not good. No, anybody who knows anything about corporate 315 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,640 finance knows it's bad. No. I mean I say that. The analogy 316 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,400 I was using was it's like being teleported into a plane that's in a nose 317 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,920 dive, head to the ground, with the engines on fire and the controls 318 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,759 don't work. Right, you were that's what I want to be. Chose 319 00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:53,680 to get into the plane? Well, well I did try to exit the 320 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,519 deal, and it wouldn't let me. I mean it was it was a 321 00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:00,680 funny situation where where I first, first we posed the acquisition, they said 322 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:07,279 hell though they adopted a poison pill, basically saying they'd rather die than be 323 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:14,240 then be acquired, like the rather chew on Sanide. But then a few 324 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,920 months later that they're like, basically have a gun to my head saying no, 325 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,599 you must acquire us. I mean that's quite a change. It is 326 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,599 quite a change. But you seem to think I can figure out a way 327 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:26,000 out of this, until finally, I guess you realized I can't. It 328 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,480 was made clear to me that the decision would not come down in my favorite 329 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:34,359 Leaguely yeah, all right, well now you have a new CEO. Why 330 00:24:34,519 --> 00:24:38,640 I think little Linda Yakuen is gonna be great? Why? Um well, 331 00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:45,519 Twitter is it's very much an advertising dependent business. Linda's obviously incredible at bat 332 00:24:45,559 --> 00:24:51,599 and she's just a great executive in general. Um So, the and you 333 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:57,640 know, my skills and interests are in technology. Um so, you know 334 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:06,480 I'll continue to play role advancing the software. Um and you know, you 335 00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:11,160 know, getting the futures product stuff basically. Um So, I mean the 336 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:17,440 general idea is Linda will operate the company and I will build products. Yeah, 337 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:18,759 and that's I think that's that's that's a good, that's a good, 338 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:22,599 and that will take less of your time. Yeah, and I have I 339 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:27,559 have that situation at SpaceX. Um you know, Gwynchotwell, who's amazing um 340 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:33,440 uh, you know, operates the company and I and I booked the sort 341 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,640 of advanced technology, right, both sort of designing in new rockets and that 342 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,000 kind of thing. And and then that's uh, you know, everyone you 343 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,680 played to their strengths and that's that's that's mine. That's although I wonder you 344 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,359 mean in twenty twenty one you said you spend most of your time on the 345 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,480 development of Starship. I think you've also been quoted I've read I think I 346 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:52,920 heard you say, actually think most of your mental energy at certain points has 347 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,680 been on Starship. Yes, So I wonder have you been diverted from Starship 348 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,640 a little bit and we'll returned to it as the main focus or is it 349 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,880 Tesla? You know again, your time, I know, having tried to 350 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,720 schedule this interview with time. Time treach is a real thing. From Yeah. 351 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:14,119 In fact, I I'd say that the only real currency is time. 352 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,240 Time is the only true currency. So where you're going to spend the currency 353 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:21,160 now that you don't have to spend as much a Twitter, Well, I'm 354 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:27,279 going to be devoting a lot more time to to Tesla UM and especially on 355 00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:36,599 the AI development UM and your product development, the and and then there's and 356 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:42,000 I'll also be allocating some more time to getting Starship to orbit UM. In 357 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:47,599 the case of SpaceX UM, what I was able to do there was to 358 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,680 as as the Starlink constellation I started working. I was able to move some 359 00:26:53,759 --> 00:27:00,039 of the best people from the Starlink program to the Starship program UM, so 360 00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:04,279 they're you know, the timing kind of worked out well that that UM. 361 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,039 I mean, we have really some of the world's best engineers at SpaceX and 362 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:14,319 Tesla, really some incredible human beings. There was some statistic you shared. 363 00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:18,039 I think three point six million people applied for a job at Tesla. I 364 00:27:18,039 --> 00:27:19,200 think I didn't I wrote it down. I didn't write it down here since 365 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,720 a member, but that was that the number. Yeah, it's crazy, 366 00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:27,519 there's a lot of demand. Have one hundred and twenty seven almost one undred 367 00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:32,440 twenty thousand employees, but three point six million people applying for a job. 368 00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:37,920 Yes, and I mean there's you know, we would only add like to 369 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,759 twenty or thirty thousand jobs. So it's it's it's sort of the acceptance rate 370 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:48,680 for for Tesla is it's much more difficult to get into Tesla or SpaceX than 371 00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:52,880 Harvard, right, the acceptance rate is it's even lower one for two. 372 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,480 Well, yeah, it's it's it's it's the acceptance rate is lower than the 373 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:03,759 most demanding of uses in the world. It's insane. Speaking of employment, 374 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:07,079 though, you had seventeen hundred people at Twitter when the plane was nose diving, 375 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:11,359 I think you're a fifteen hundred. Now, that's roughly sixty three hundred 376 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:17,400 people. Were they all superfluous? No, not all. Do you figure 377 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,720 out which ones are or is it a little late? You know, sometimes 378 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,920 it gets a little late. I mean, looked desperate time was called for 379 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,799 desperate measures. So um, there's no question that some of the people who 380 00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:33,200 will let go probably shouldn't have been let go because we we simply did not 381 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:37,559 have the time to figure out we had to be you know, make make 382 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,720 widespread cuts to get the run rate under control. So um, you know, 383 00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:47,039 and uh so this is not to say that hey, everyone who is 384 00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:51,440 like going from Twitter is like somehow terrible or something. It's just we have 385 00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:57,359 to with very little information. Uh, get get the the the headcount expenses, 386 00:28:57,359 --> 00:29:02,880 and that the non Postonalexy it is down to or at least break even, 387 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:07,119 And we're not quite a break even yet, but we're close. We 388 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:08,880 need to do it fast and if you, if you, if you do 389 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,640 it fast. Unfortunately, there are gonna be some babies thrown out with the 390 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,799 South orders. So um so, I definitely, I definitely would not want 391 00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:22,160 to say, uh, you know, disparage. You know, any I 392 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,759 understands. But it's funny, you know, I hear from other I've heard 393 00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:29,640 from other tech CEOs quietly they look at what you did at Twitter, and 394 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,200 they sort of they won't admit it publicly, but they, you know, 395 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,599 they said, wow, that was something. I mean to cut that deeply 396 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,880 and still be able to shun the company. People will argue about how well 397 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,599 or things were running. Have you heard from any of the CEOs said thank 398 00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:47,240 you for doing that giving us sort of runway or leeway to at least make 399 00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:49,680 some cuts of our own. Um I have I've heard that from a few 400 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,839 people and and I've heard that through the grapevine. Yeah. Um, but 401 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,880 um, like I said, if desperate times call for desperate measures, or 402 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,920 that those were desperate times. So do you see starting to I mean, 403 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,599 we'll lend hire people. Do you think are you ready for people to be 404 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,559 hired to Twitter? You know, I think we absolutely um need to need 405 00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:12,160 to hire people and and and if they're not too mad at us, probably 406 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:18,079 re hire some of the people that they were let go. Um, and 407 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:22,000 they're gonna have to come into the office. Look, I'm a big believer 408 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,920 that that that that people need to are more productive when they're in person. 409 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:33,799 Um, and and and and and really man and the whole sort of work 410 00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:41,000 from home thing, it's like I think it's Look, there are some exceptions, 411 00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:44,559 but I kind of think that that the whole notion to work from home 412 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,720 is a bit like the you know, the fake Marie Antoinette quote. Let 413 00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:52,759 the meat cake. It's like it's like it's like, really, you're gonna 414 00:30:52,759 --> 00:30:55,680 work from home, and you're gonna make everyone else who made your car come 415 00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:57,319 work to the fact work in the factory. You're gonna make the people who 416 00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,359 make your food that gets to live it that they can't work from home. 417 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,519 That you know, the people that come fix your house, they can't work 418 00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:10,599 from home, but you can. Does that seem morally right? That's messed 419 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,440 up. You see there's a moral issue. Yes, I mean I see 420 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,640 it more. It's a productivity issue, but it's also a moral issue. 421 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,559 People should get off the moral high horse. Would work from home bullshit? 422 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,519 Um because they're asking everyone else to not work from home while they do. 423 00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:27,079 And they're still pushback. By the way, it's still going on. This 424 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:32,039 battle is still happening. I mean leaders of organizations and I speak to plenty 425 00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:34,480 of them. I want people back. I want people back three days a 426 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,680 week. They're still battling. It's not clear that it's ever going to change 427 00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:45,720 to people are not coming back. People the laptop classes living in lala land. 428 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,480 Okay, As I said, you can't look at the cars while people 429 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:55,279 are working from from home here of course not um so so the people were 430 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,559 you know, building cars, servicing the cars, building houses. It's fixing 431 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,039 houses, making the food, um, making all the things that that that 432 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,079 people consume. It's it's messed up to assume that that this they have to 433 00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:14,319 go to work, but you don't how is that that is. It's not 434 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,359 just a productivity thing. I think it's Marley Marley wrong. Although productivity is 435 00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:23,640 definitely impacted too, and the ability people learn, I mean on and on 436 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,880 listen, I like, so, I mean, look, you know people 437 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,640 will disagree with me about this, but I you know, it's like, 438 00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:34,200 um, so if you want to work at Tesla, you want to work 439 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,119 at SpaceX, you want to work at Twitter, You've got to come into 440 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,359 the office every day. Yes, I mean you know, Like I'm not 441 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,319 saying um, I'm saying, like, look, we put forty hours in, 442 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:47,119 you know, and it, frankly, it doesn't even even need to 443 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,640 be like, you know, Monday through Friday. You know you work Monday 444 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,799 through Thursday. And also not saying no one should take I mean, I 445 00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:59,839 think people should take vacations, like I work seven days a week, but 446 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,400 but I'm not expecting others to do that. How muchly do you get by 447 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,599 the way, about six hours you do six hours typically? Yes, No, 448 00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:09,400 that's not bad. I thought it would be less. I've tried less, 449 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,880 but my productivity, even though I'm awake more hours, I get less 450 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,440 done, okay, And the brain pain level is bad if I get less 451 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,559 than six hours, but you work seven days a week. Yes, yeah, 452 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:27,920 I actually only um in terms of actually you say, like, how 453 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,759 many days in a year do I not put in some meaningful amount of work? 454 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:37,079 It's probably about two or three, right, two or three days a 455 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,559 year? Yeah? A year? Yeah? Yes, Um. I want 456 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:44,720 to get to some more specific questions about Twitter that's sort of have a more 457 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:46,759 global aspect. Then I still want to get to AI. You're gonna give 458 00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:49,680 us some time here, can we still? Um? Yeah? I think 459 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,400 We've got a board meeting coming up, but I'm happy to give as much 460 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,000 time as reasonably possible. I think it's maybe it's six or something. Okay, 461 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:59,720 Well, let's time, is it now? I love another twenty all 462 00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:02,440 right, at least twenty great. Um, let's talk about free speech a 463 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,200 bit. You know, you call yourself a free speech absolutist. You want 464 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,800 Twitter, and this isn't aspirationally. Aspirationally you want Twitter to be as truthful 465 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,880 as possible, most accurate source of information about the world. Um, so 466 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:19,519 what does that mean for how you police lies on the platform? You mentioned 467 00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:23,360 community notes? Is that I think community? Yeah? I mean i'd say 468 00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:32,199 so. My overall kind of vision for extra Twitter is to be a cybernetic 469 00:34:32,519 --> 00:34:37,239 collective mind for humanity. This is going to sound quite esoteric and sci fi, 470 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,800 but um, so the if if you know, in pursuit of that 471 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:49,679 objective, you want to have information move quickly, have that information be accurate, 472 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,119 and you want to have error correction on that information. So you can 473 00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:55,440 think of community notes as like an error correction on information in the network. 474 00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:00,840 And the effect of community notes is actually bigger at the and it would seem 475 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,559 it's bigger than the number of notes, because if somebody knows that they're going 476 00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:08,440 to get noted, they are less likely to say something that is false because 477 00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:13,880 it's embarrassing if you get community noted. Okay, and and that applies even 478 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:20,199 to advertisers. By but we've lost that's so far forty million dollars in advertising 479 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:28,000 because it was misleading or because because the community notes to two pretty big advertisers 480 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:36,519 got community noted. Um. And I yes, um, I think on 481 00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:40,039 balance the community notes were correct. And I did I did say to those 482 00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:50,599 advertisers, look provide just go on Twitter and provide some facts that contradict the 483 00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:52,760 community note. That's the way to deal with the community note is to say, 484 00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:57,920 is that the community note is saying that the ad is misleading for the 485 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:04,039 following reasons. If you've got information that rebuts that note, then just add 486 00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,440 that to the ad. Okay, well, we're coming up on an election. 487 00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:09,079 I mean it's a ways away, but it's going to all start. 488 00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:14,840 Um. Yeah, President Trump is allowed back on the platform. He hasn't 489 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,719 actually come back, right, but one would imagine if and when he does, 490 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,880 or there are others who will say twenty twenty election was rigged? Is 491 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:27,360 that something? I assume that's not something you believe? I well, I 492 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:34,199 think the answer The answer is is nuanced, like do I believe Biden? 493 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,920 One? Yes, I believe you want you voted for I did? Actually 494 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:47,119 do you regret that? I mean, man, I wish we could have 495 00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:51,760 just a normal human being as president. That's what I want't I think, 496 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,840 if if, if we could, you know, there's that that old saying 497 00:36:53,840 --> 00:37:00,400 of like we're better we're better off being run by um, by people picked 498 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,119 at random from the phone book, then the faculty of Harvard. Yeah, 499 00:37:02,199 --> 00:37:06,519 I don't know I said that, but somebody very wise, um, and 500 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,199 I would I would say, if we could do that, for the president 501 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,760 that that would be you're not obviously you're not happy with b don't we all 502 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,039 just want an all human beings and whatever resids whatever? Sure, normal means 503 00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:23,320 not what I mean like you know, just I don't know. So you 504 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:29,840 want somebody's competent it's helpful, Yes, I think definitely. Um, somebody's 505 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,679 executive ability is underrated. Since the president is effectively the chief executive officer of 506 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,880 the country. Um, it actually matters if they are a good executive officer. 507 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,119 Yeah, it's it's not simply a matter of do they share your beliefs 508 00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:45,039 and you know, um, but but are they good at getting things done? 509 00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:49,159 There's a lot of decisions that need to be made every day. Um, 510 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,679 many of them are unrelated to moral beliefs, you know, right, 511 00:37:53,119 --> 00:38:00,840 and and you just want a good executive because they're seeing you over America they 512 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,239 are they are. We want a good CEO of America. I was going 513 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,320 to do be it effective. Unfortunately, we live in highly partisan times where 514 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,599 there is were about everything, including ideas, including the truth, which gets 515 00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:17,960 back to it's not true that the election in twenty and twenty was rigged. 516 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,400 It wasn't stolen, and I wonder on the platform when you see that, 517 00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:24,559 does that end up in a community note or is that something you take more 518 00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:28,000 action on? And obviously there places so many I mean, to be clear, 519 00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:34,480 I don't think it was there was a stolen election. Um. But 520 00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:37,880 by the same token, if somebody's going to say that there's there's never any 521 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,840 election fraud anywhere, this is obviously also false. Yeah. If if if 522 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,039 one hundred million people vote, the probability that the fraud is zero is zero. 523 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,920 Of course there's always going to be some right, I mean, is 524 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,440 perhaps, I mean there were This election was audited, it was so many 525 00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:58,159 judges, and it went on and on and on, and there was no 526 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,440 nothing whatsoever that I don't want to debate this with you. My question is 527 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:05,760 more about what I think it's important to say, like that in any given 528 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,519 election, even if you try your hardest, if you've got one hundred million 529 00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:10,159 votes, there's gonna be some some amount of fraud that is not zero, 530 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:15,159 and that that it's important to acknowledge that without saying that that the fraud was 531 00:39:15,199 --> 00:39:21,960 of sufficient magnitude to change the outcome. So uh so, my opinion would 532 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,480 be that there was some there was some small amount of fraud, but it 533 00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:25,440 was not enough to change the right and by the way, it might have 534 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,480 been either way. I mean, you know, yeah, there will probably 535 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:30,239 a little bit, but again it's gonna be You're gonna let people say that 536 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,960 though on the on Twitter, and then you're gonna hope that they're corrected, 537 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,239 and they will be corrected. They will be Oh yeah. Let's talk a 538 00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:44,719 bit about your tweets, um, because it comes up a lot um even 539 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,840 today it came up and you know, anticipation of this. I mean, 540 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,960 um, you know, you do some tweets that seem to be or at 541 00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:59,119 least give support to some who would call others conspiracy theories. Well yes, 542 00:39:59,199 --> 00:40:06,039 but I mean honestly, you know some of these conspiracy theories, uh I've 543 00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:09,920 turned out to be true. Which ones, well, like the hunter Biden 544 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:15,800 laptop that's true. Yeah yeah, so uh you know that that that that 545 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,280 was a pretty big deal. There was Twitter and and and others engaged in 546 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,159 active suppression of information that was relevant to the public. M that's that's a 547 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,400 that's a terrible thing that happened. That's like your interference. But how do 548 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,159 you make a choice? You don't see I mean in terms of when you're 549 00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:34,639 going to engage. I mean, for example, even today, Eli you 550 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,199 you tweeted this thing about George Soros. Well, I'm looking for because I 551 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,400 want to make sure I quote it properly. But I mean, you know 552 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,519 what you wrote, but it basically reminds me of my NATO. This is 553 00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:46,400 like, you know, calm down, people, this is not like case 554 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,199 out of it. As you said, he wants to route the very fabric 555 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,320 of civilization and Sos hates humanity. Like when you do something like that. 556 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,239 Yeah, I think that's true. That's my opinion. Okay, but why 557 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,039 share it? Why share it especially? I mean why share it when people 558 00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:06,719 who buy teslas may not agree with you, advertisers are on Twitter may not 559 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,639 agree with you. Why not just say hey, I think this. You 560 00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:12,920 can tell me, we can talk about it over there, you can tell 561 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,559 your friends, But why share it widely? I mean, this is a 562 00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:21,360 freedom of speech. I'm allowed to say whatever you absolutely are, But I'm 563 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:22,719 trying to understand why you do, because you have to know it's got a 564 00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:28,360 there. It puts you in in the middle of a the partisan divide in 565 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,719 the country. It makes you a lightning rod for criticism. I mean, 566 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:35,880 do you like that. You know, people today saying he's an anti Semite. 567 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,079 I don't think you are. No, I'm definitely. I'm like, 568 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:42,559 I'm like a pro Semite. If anything, I believe that probably is the 569 00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:45,920 case. Why would you even introduce the idea of it that that would be 570 00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:49,960 the case. I mean, it looks we don't want to make this a 571 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,199 George Stars interview. No, God, no, I don't. I don't 572 00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:53,639 want it at all. But I'm what I'm trying even came up there when 573 00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:58,400 the annual meeting. I mean, you know, do your tweets hurt the 574 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,880 company? Are there test loan or just I don't agree with his political position 575 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,280 because and I know it because he shares so much of it, or their 576 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,039 advertisers on Twitter that Linda Yak Greena will come and say you gotta stop man, 577 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,159 or you know, I can't get these ads because of some of the 578 00:42:12,159 --> 00:42:31,519 things you tweet. You know, I'm reminded of as we'll see it in 579 00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:38,880 the Princess Bride Great movie, Great Um, where he confronts the person who 580 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:51,960 killed his father. He says, offer me money, offer me power. 581 00:42:52,239 --> 00:43:01,400 I don't care. See, you just don't care. You want to share 582 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,119 what you have to say, I'll say I don't want to say and if 583 00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:10,760 if if the consequence of that is losing money, so be it. Okay. 584 00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:15,760 But I mean when you when you when you linked to somebody who's talking 585 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:22,679 about the guy who killed children in a mall in Allen, Texas, you 586 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,119 say something like it might be a bad siop. I'm not quite sure what 587 00:43:25,159 --> 00:43:32,960 you meant. But oh, in that particular case, Uh, there was 588 00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:44,599 a somehow that's that's not not not that the that the people people were killed, 589 00:43:44,639 --> 00:43:49,840 but the it was I think incorrectly described to be a white supremacist action. 590 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,519 Um. And the evidence for that was some obscure Russian website that no 591 00:43:55,559 --> 00:44:01,719 one's everihood of that had no followers, um and the like. The company 592 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,480 that that found this is belling Cat. Right. Did you know what belling 593 00:44:06,519 --> 00:44:10,599 Cat does? Psy ops? Right? I couldn't really even follow exactly what 594 00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:14,679 it was you were trying to express there, So that's part why I was 595 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,679 curious. But I'm saying that I thought this, the ascribing a two white 596 00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:22,280 supremacy was bullshit, okay, and and uh and and and that the information 597 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:28,719 for that came from an obscure Russian website and was somehow magically found by belling 598 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:34,079 Cat, which is a company that does psy ops. And there's no proof 599 00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:37,880 by the way that he was not. There's no I would say that there's 600 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,800 no proof that he is. And that's a debate you want to get into 601 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,639 on Twitter. Yes, because we should not be ascribing things to white supremacy. 602 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,119 If if there, if it's false. Okay, um, can we 603 00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:53,480 talk about AI now? Actually I want to talk about AI. Well, 604 00:44:53,639 --> 00:44:58,119 let me end with Twitter in the sense of Sam Altman was on the Hill 605 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:04,880 today and he said AI's ability to manipulate interactive disinformation is a significant area of 606 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,840 concern. It's moving so quick, it is a concern. And how do 607 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,639 you know, I'm curious as to whether you agree with that? How you 608 00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:16,199 see that even playing out on Twitter with people who know somebody could you know 609 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,679 look like you and or me and use our voice. I don't know what 610 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,079 it could be. Oh that that that that that is happening in big time. 611 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:31,920 Um so the so the reason that I'm asking people to be verified on 612 00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:37,360 Twitter and and and that we're saying, okay, verification means you've got a 613 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:42,719 phone number from a reputable carrier, which means that you've at least passed through 614 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:49,199 whatever they're uh security mechanisms are that you have a credit card, which so 615 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,559 you now have passed through whatever security mechanisms the credit card company has. And 616 00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:59,280 that there's some small amount of money paid per month. Um uh. That 617 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:05,559 that sort of action um uh significantly increases the cost of of fake accounts. 618 00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:13,519 Um and the with with modern with with with the latest AI um it can 619 00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:17,719 bypass basically every test for are you a human? So so then how do 620 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,480 you know that a million accounts were created? How do you know that those 621 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,000 were people? I don't know? How do you exactly you have to do? 622 00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:31,760 You have to do account verification um and and the thing that makes the 623 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,320 like I sort of put myself in a position of like, if it was 624 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,360 my goal to manipulate public opinion and create millions of accounts and make a team 625 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:45,199 as though a topic was trending um and and that and that this is actually 626 00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:50,039 what the public beliefs um and But in order to do so, I had 627 00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:54,159 to get a million phone numbers, a million credit card numbers and pay uh, 628 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:59,880 you know, eight bucks a month um and and and have that old 629 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:05,880 not be traceable and clustered. I would say it's impossible. Impossible. So 630 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:12,719 the goal of the uh of the sort of Twitter verification is fundamentally to prevent 631 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,360 AI manipulation of the system. Got it. Um final question on Twitter, 632 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,480 Walter Isaacson, your biographer, he said, your big goal for Twitter is 633 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:30,320 disrupting the banking industry. Um. I'd say that's that's that's a that's a 634 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,159 look. First of all, I don't want to disrupt something with the psake 635 00:47:34,199 --> 00:47:36,920 of disrupting it. It's more like, if there is a better product, 636 00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:39,519 that's great. But I'm not output disruption for the tsake disruption. I'm like, 637 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:44,199 if we're gonna make a product that improves a quality of life for people 638 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:50,800 that they find more useful, that that's great. Um and Uh, what 639 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,639 what people see in PayPal is sort of like sort of a halfway. It's 640 00:47:54,679 --> 00:47:59,639 sort of a sort of it's frankly sort of a half baked version of what 641 00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:04,800 it could be. Um and um and so I think there's potential to create, 642 00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:12,360 um, a more efficient financial system. UM. And here we can 643 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,119 get again quite quite esoteric, sort of into a sort of information theory. 644 00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:21,719 But um, the actual financial system today is a heterogeneous set of databases running 645 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,800 on mainframes and coval um that still engage in batch processing. It's really quite 646 00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:31,760 uh very inefficient. Um so, UM things are still not real time um 647 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:37,760 and and so it's possible to have um a much more efficient, homogeneous real 648 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:45,360 time data system. Money is just information, um and and so the so. 649 00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:49,280 But that's not like the only reason. It's it's just a thing that 650 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,840 that would be I think poetic to fulfill ultimately the vision that I had for 651 00:48:54,199 --> 00:49:02,119 X over twenty three years ago. Um and and actually see that counter fruition 652 00:49:02,199 --> 00:49:07,000 would be nice. But but there are many other things for Twitter, it's 653 00:49:07,039 --> 00:49:10,639 not just financial. Well, you talk about enhancing humanity. You know, 654 00:49:10,679 --> 00:49:15,440 I'm curious than a bad AI, which many people say will lead to great 655 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:20,039 productivity gains. You show those robots, I mean, I can imagine what 656 00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:22,920 they conceivably could do empowered by AI. But I'm also curious, because you've 657 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:28,559 certainly been concerned, what percentage do you give the chance that it will destroy 658 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:37,360 humanity? Well, the event of artificial general intelligence is cult to singularity because 659 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:44,119 it is so hard to predict what will happen after that. UM. I 660 00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:46,880 think it's it's it's very much a double double edged sword. I think it's 661 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:52,480 there's there's a there's a strong probability that it will make life much better and 662 00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:57,599 that will have an age of abundance um and and there's some chance that it 663 00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:02,440 goes wrong U and destroys humanity. Hopefully that chance is small, but it's 664 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,960 not zero um And so I think we want to take whatever actions we can 665 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,880 think of to minimize the probability that AI goes And you've called for a pause 666 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,639 along with the number of other people. Yes, I look when I call 667 00:50:13,679 --> 00:50:16,199 for the a friend of mine, Max Techmark, because a physicist said at 668 00:50:16,519 --> 00:50:21,119 mit UM you know, I wanted me to sign on to the letter. 669 00:50:21,119 --> 00:50:24,480 And it's it's like I knew it would be futile. It is futile. 670 00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:27,880 I knew would be futile. I just want to call it like it's one 671 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,199 of those things. Well, for the record, I recommended that we pause. 672 00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:34,199 Uh did I think we would there would be a pause? Absolutely not. 673 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,599 So you're starting, uh x AI, I think that's what you're calling 674 00:50:40,599 --> 00:50:45,760 it or some new AI effort. Um. Well, how is it going 675 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:51,000 to be different than open AI or alphabet This is this is not the time 676 00:50:51,039 --> 00:50:57,639 to to this. I we don't have enough time and and order. Is 677 00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:01,440 this the moment to really talk about it? Um, we will have a 678 00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:07,920 launch event and will explore the issues in more detail. But UM, I 679 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,760 should say that that, and I mentioned this at the shareholder meeting, that 680 00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:20,880 um Tesla has actually um tremenous capability in real world AI. Yes, in 681 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,880 fact, it is very far ahead of anyone I know. People actually on 682 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,679 Twitter prior to our interview, we're saying, you know, he never gets 683 00:51:28,679 --> 00:51:32,320 asked about how advanced his AI is A Tesla. You always talk about the 684 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:38,440 other names. Tesla is, like I said, by It's like if there's 685 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,199 not I'm not even sure who's second. Frankly, Um, why is that? 686 00:51:42,199 --> 00:51:44,559 Why? Then? What? What are people not understanding about what you 687 00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:46,320 have? And why are we talking so much about chat, GPT and generative 688 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:51,239 AI at open AI and what Microsoft can be able to do with it and 689 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,440 not about Tesla. I don't know. I mean people do talk about it 690 00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,519 online. UM. I think I think Tesla will have sort of a chat 691 00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:04,840 GPT moment maybe, If not this year, i'd say no later the next 692 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,679 year. UM, wait say that again. I'm sorry you're going to have 693 00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:10,679 a sort of chat GPT moment, Oh you will in terms of suddenly it 694 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,199 will Yeah, suddenly three million cars were a will drive themselves with no one 695 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,159 Right, it goes back to that right yeah, and then five million cars 696 00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:23,159 and then ten million cars. So um, the and and and and I 697 00:52:23,159 --> 00:52:28,239 would I would also say that if if positions were reversed, um, and 698 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,920 say um, well, in fact, the positions are our reverse. For 699 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:36,159 example, Google has way Moot, which is, you know, sort of 700 00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:38,679 attempting self driving, and they are able to make self driving work in a 701 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:44,719 very limited geography with with very tightly mapped streets, but as soon as any 702 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,039 as soon as that anything goes wrong with those streets, like there's an accident 703 00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:53,280 or a parade um or road construction, uh, it stops working. Basically, 704 00:52:54,280 --> 00:53:00,880 Google is unable to produce a generalized solution to self driving that works anywhere. 705 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,639 They've been trying to that for a long time. They have been unsuccessful. 706 00:53:02,639 --> 00:53:08,920 Tesla basically has that, and it's far more advanced that than Google. 707 00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:13,199 Yea, And so if the positions were reversed and you said okay, um, 708 00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:20,440 Tesla's got to produce a large language model that has output equal to a 709 00:53:20,519 --> 00:53:24,920 greater than CHATCHVT or Microsoft. Open Eye has to do self driving, and 710 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,719 we just we flipped the tasks. Tesla would win, You'd win. Yes, 711 00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:31,239 you have a computing power and everything else. You'd have to do it 712 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:36,400 absolutely. Um I'm being told we don't have that much time. Do you 713 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,119 can you give me another five minutes? Or yeah? Yeah, I think 714 00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:44,079 so. I do have a board meeting. I know five five minutes is 715 00:53:44,119 --> 00:53:50,920 probably fine. Sure, okay, thank you? Um um open Ai. 716 00:53:51,079 --> 00:53:52,760 I mean you seem somewhat frustrated with them. You were one of the big 717 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:59,559 contributors early on the reason I am the reason Opening Eye exists. How much 718 00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:06,480 money did you give them? Um so. Uh, I'm not sure the 719 00:54:06,519 --> 00:54:09,679 exact number, but it's some some number on the order of fifty million dollars. 720 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:17,480 So the man fate loves irony next level, um So, I used 721 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,480 to be close friends with our page, and I would say at his house, 722 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:23,519 and we'd have these conversations long long into the evening about AI, and 723 00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:29,199 I would I would be constantly urging him to be careful about the danger of 724 00:54:29,559 --> 00:54:35,519 AI, and and and and he just he was really not concerned about the 725 00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:42,880 danger of AI, and was quite cavalier about it, um and and and 726 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,519 and. At the time, Google, especially after their acquisition of deep Mind, 727 00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:49,599 had three quarters of the world's AI talent. They had obviously a lot 728 00:54:49,639 --> 00:54:52,320 of computers and a lot of money. Um, so it was a unipolar 729 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:58,360 world for four AI and and go unipolar world. But but the the person 730 00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,960 who controls that does not or at least did not seem to be concerned about 731 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:07,840 AI safety. That that's that sounded like a real problem, so um and 732 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:15,880 then the final straw was Larry calling me a speciist for being pro human consciousness 733 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:17,800 instead of machine consciousness. And I'm like, well, yes, I guess 734 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,239 I am. I am a specioust and so right, so you helped to 735 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:27,159 the creation of open AI. You put as much as fifty million dollars more 736 00:55:27,159 --> 00:55:29,800 than help. It wouldn't exist without it wouldn't exist without you. So I 737 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,400 came up with a name. The name opening Eye refers to open source. 738 00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:37,079 So it's the intent was what's the okay? So what was the opposite? 739 00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:44,000 What's the opposite of of Google? Would would be an open source nonprofit because 740 00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:49,360 Google is closed sourced for profit. Um and that profit motivation can be finicially 741 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,840 dangerous. Um. So uh, should you've gotten governance for that money? 742 00:55:53,840 --> 00:56:01,800 Should you have gotten some level of control? Perhaps in retrospect? Yeah, 743 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:08,880 I fully admit to being a huge idiot here um so um anyway, So, 744 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,000 so Opening I was like meant to be. Opening I opened as an 745 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,719 open source. It was created as a buy one C three um and but 746 00:56:19,519 --> 00:56:21,880 so so part of it is also in the beginning, I thought, look, 747 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,760 this is this is probably a hopeless endeavor. How could we possibly compete 748 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:29,800 with How could Opening I possibly compete with with Google Deep Mind? I mean 749 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,880 this, this seemed like an ant against an elephant, you know, which 750 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:45,639 is not a contest um and um. And I was also h I mean 751 00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:53,440 I I was instrumental in recruiting that the key scientists and engineers, most specifically, 752 00:56:53,800 --> 00:57:00,559 most notably Elias skier Um. In fact, Elio went back and forth 753 00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:04,639 several times because he would say he's going to join an Opening Eye, then 754 00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:07,000 Demis would convince him not to, Then I would convince him to do so, 755 00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:10,440 and then and this went back and forth several times, and ultimately decided 756 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,079 to join an Opening Eye. And really Eliot joining was the was the lynchman 757 00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:20,000 for Opening Eye being ultimately successful. You're very disappointed in what's happened there in 758 00:57:20,119 --> 00:57:28,920 terms of it becoming a for profit. In way, I do think that 759 00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:37,760 there's some look, it does seem weird that something can be UM a nonprofit 760 00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:45,440 open source and somehow transform itself into a for profit closed source. UM. 761 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:49,239 I mean this would be like like, let's say you funded an organization to 762 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,599 save the Amazon rainforest and instead they became a lumber company and chopped down the 763 00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:58,679 forest and sold it for money. And you'd be therefore like, oh wait 764 00:57:58,719 --> 00:58:00,800 a second, that's the exact opposite of what I gave the money for. 765 00:58:02,119 --> 00:58:07,920 Is that legal? That doesn't seem legal? And if it is, and 766 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:14,000 in general, if it is legal to start a company as a nonprofit and 767 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,440 then take the IP and transfer it to a for profit that then makes tons 768 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:25,119 of money, shouldn't everyone start shouldn't that be the default? Um? And 769 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:30,360 and and then I also think it's important to understand the like like when push 770 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:35,800 comes to shove, let's say they do create some some digital superintelligence, almost 771 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:40,199 godlike intelligence. Well, who's in control and what exactly is the relationship between 772 00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:45,079 opening I and Microsoft? And I do worry that Microsoft actually may be more 773 00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:51,320 in control than say the leadership team, and Opening Eye realizes I mean Microsoft 774 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,119 had as part of the Microsoft investment, they have rights to all of the 775 00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:59,760 software, all of the model weights, and everything necessary to run the inference 776 00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:05,159 them. So they essentially have a great deal of control. At any point, 777 00:59:05,239 --> 00:59:09,039 Microsoft could cut off Open the Eye. Elana, I'm being told we 778 00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:13,719 have to wrap up. Your board has been very satient. I want to 779 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,159 end on one AI question. You have a lot of kids. I have 780 00:59:16,199 --> 00:59:21,800 some kids. I have one who's actually soon to go into the workforce. 781 00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:27,400 I struggle with how to advise him about a career when this technology exists and 782 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,400 will only improve. I'm just curious when you think about advising your children on 783 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:35,320 a career with so much that is changing, what do you tell them there's 784 00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:52,920 going to be a value. Well, that's a tough question to answer, 785 00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:02,480 I guess m I would just say, you know, to to sort of 786 01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:07,679 follow their heart in terms of what they find interesting to do or fulfilling to 787 01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:13,079 do. UM and UM, you know, try to be as useful as 788 01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:19,239 possible to the rest of the society. UM. You know, if we 789 01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:22,119 do get to the sort of like magic Genie situation where UM, you can 790 01:00:22,159 --> 01:00:28,440 ask the A for for anything. Um. And let's say it's even the 791 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,760 benign scenario. Let's say it's a benign scenario. How do we actually find 792 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:36,320 fulfillment? You know, it's ah, how do we find meaning in life? 793 01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:45,039 If the air I could do your job better than you can? Um. 794 01:00:45,079 --> 01:00:45,880 I mean, if I think about it too hot it correctly, it 795 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:54,079 can be uh just dispiriting and demotivating. Um. Because I mean I I 796 01:00:54,199 --> 01:00:59,960 go through I mean I I've put a lot of blood, sweat and tears 797 01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:02,480 into building the companies. And then and then I'm like, wait, well 798 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,719 should I be doing this? Because if I'm sacrificing time with friends and family 799 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:13,400 that I would prefer to do. But then ultimately the AI can do all 800 01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,800 these things. Does that make sense? I don't know. Um. To 801 01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,599 some extent, I have to have deliberate suspension of disbelief in order to remain 802 01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:27,559 motivated. UM. So I guess I would say, just, you know, 803 01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:35,760 work on things that you find interesting, fulfilling, and that contributes some 804 01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:37,079 good to the rest of society.