What is krack olack in Hardwood Knocks listeners, I am Dan fa Valley coming
at you without my fantabulous co host Adam Brammel. I am, however,
going to be excited to talk some Nick's with you. We have the folks
over from Nick's Film School, Andrew Claudio and John MacCray are going to hop
on in a little bit, but first we kind of have to talk about
the NBA Draft lottery. I'm just gonna go through my biggest questions that i
have or things to watch post lottery to see what happens leading into the draft
or or after it. Giving the order that happened. Quick shout out to
that Phoenix Suns Los Angeles Clippers game in Game two. Aside from the replays
which took thirty minutes to finish the final ninety seconds of the game, it
was a riveting performance that inbounds play that won the Suns the game. Holy
crap. Series is fantastic. Excited to continue watching. It looks CP three
is gonna come back in Game three as well. This feels like the Suns
are really gonna win. I know the Clippers have already erased a pair of
two to zero deficits, but they're probably not gonna get Kwai Leander back,
so I don't really know what the path is for them winning if CP three
returns, and then if they're not going to get Kwai, and you're at
a point where Reggie Jackson or Nick Batoum or Marcus Morris or Blue Kennard has
to be like your second and third best player on any given night, behind
Paul George, who continues to make a meme of himself after missing too clutch
free throws in a row during Game two. That's not why we're here.
That'll talk about that series. Will delve in deeper during our locker room session,
probably on this Sunday. We are moving the schedule based around the games,
so we'll take a look at that, and we'll always have the promo
tweets on Twitter. Come join us for locker room. It's a good time.
We have a few reoccurring listeners who come roll through the last questions in
the chat. They'll come on and speak. It helps us out a lot
when you guys come join us live and then you can download and listen to
it again later, or at least just download it to reduce those numbers.
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a channel that is growing, and I swear probably some point over the offseason
we'll actually have video with mine and Adam's faces gleaming on it. Let's talk
about me. A draft lottery though Pistons win the first pick they get Kick
Cunningham. I know there's already a report that it's not a done deal.
Kike Cunningham is going to the Detroit Pistons. That is a no brainer at
this point. Rolling through the auto really quickly. Two is Houston, Three
is Cleveland, four is Toronto, five is Orlando, six is Oklahoma City,
Thunder seven is Golden State. Eight is Orlando that comes via the Bulls.
Nine is Sacramento, ten is New Orleans, eleven is Charlotte, twelve
is San Antonio, thirteen is Indiana and fourteen is again Golden State, and
remember the seventh pick from Golden State that came via the Timberwolves. Immediately,
a bunch of things stand out, and I'm not going to ask questions only
about necessarily the lottery, but that's really where there's geared towards the Raptors jumping
up the four not this huge leap. I believe they have the seventh best
odds going into the lottery. What are they going to do with that pick?
And you can look at prospects. That's I have not delved deep enough
into my draft prep work to say, oh, they should target this player.
I'm just much more curious as to what this will do to inform their
direction. I'm assuming they're going to end up with Jalen Suggs seems to be
the consensus number four him or Jalen Green. I think a lot of people
have Evan Mobley mostly going two or three, and so I would guess that
Jawn Green or John Sucks falls to Toronto. My gut would say, you
keep that pick, which is fine, but are you keeping that pick bringing
in that bring in John Green or John Suggs and keeping Pascal Siakam and Fred
van Fleet and o Gana Noby and just being good enough to win now maybe
because that's the setup that you're in. I still just sort of wonder if
this could potentially push the Raptors towards more of a gradual rebuild. I would
like to see them bring Kyle Awery back if he's willing to return, and
assuming they're going to play in Toronto next season, because I think they could
be super competitive of bringing along a top four pick. This isn't a Golden
Warrior, a Golden State Warrior situation where they're just kind of barren after they're
top guys. There's real depth there. If you look at a healthy Chris
Bouche, Malakai Flynn looks really good towards the end of the year. They
also have we already mentioned Siakam out of Noby, Fred van Fleet, that
team is just it's deeper and we I think that they could straddle those two
timelines if they really wanted to. The other scenario would be do you go
nuclear and maybe dangle that fourth pick in a trade. Because this is considered
like a four star potential draft. It sounds like right now, I ken'tive.
I didn't even just mention Gary Changing. It was also a restricted free
agent, and so just all those pieces together. And then even like Utah
Watanabe showed just a ton during the regular season, could you dangle that pick?
Would you be willing to trade number four in this draft for Bradley Beale
if you think he's going to resign? I mean there's other moving parts that
deal. You're probably looking at Bradley Beale and number four maybe another pick twenty
twenty three could because of post dates as of now his free agency. If
Washington says yes to that, and Beal says that he's going to resign or
he's willing to resign, you could bring back Kyle Awey. Fred Van Fleet
is big time for the Raptors. Making no mistake, he probably could have
made all defense this year. He definitely should have gotten more all defense consideration.
I did not have him on one of my two teams, but he
definitely he was among my honorable mentions, So losing him as big he was
also there lottery representatives. I guess that's kind of weird, but if you
wanted to, that is a route you could go. Now with the fourth
pick, and so I think it just opens up these different avenues where it's
a high enough pick where you could look at it as essentially the future of
your franchise, and maybe you're not as inclined to move. You know,
Fred van Fleet still twenty six, you could look at him as young enough
to do a quasi reset. Excuse me, Fred Vanfley turned twenty seven,
that's my mistake. You have o Gianna would be definitely young enough there.
Do you maybe look at shopping Pascal Siakam at that point because you're the number
four pick. You're not drafting someone in all likelihood that you think is going
to end up replacing him, and he at twenty seven as well, like
isn't super old. It's just I feel like before, if they were going
to end up in seventh and you were not going to have one of these
top four picks, it was more cut and dry where right, just bring
in the prospect and then it's not going to be determining. You probably have
him, try and groom him, bring him along slowly, tread water.
Somewhere in the middle, it feels like there could be three more significant decisions
where it's let's let's bring me back Kyle Lowry, and we could be and
Gary Trencher and be a lot better than expected if we were keeping the band
together because we have this higher upside rookie. Do we use this pick would
be the second would be the other another option to try and bring in some
wind now talent. We don't know which stars are going to be available.
There's always ones that pop up. I think with a top four pick,
though in this year's draft, i'd give it up for Zach Lavine. Personally,
I don't know if I'm doing that. Yeah, i'd probably do it
if I'm the Raptors. I'm not giving up as much for him as I
would for Bradley Beal. But those are two guys that feel like they have
feasible paths to being on the auction block. I'm sure the star market will
develop beyond that. Or the third scenario would be, do you look at
this and say, all right, we have like a real building block here
now, and maybe it's better if we go through a more gradual rebuild and
we're gonna be willing to shop some of our older guys. Let Kyle Lowry
walk, maybe look at Siakaman, Fred van Fleet Trades and consider the core
you whoever it may be to them, is it Malachai Flynn? But it's
definitely o Gian and Obi. And then again in my estimation of Jail and
Suggs or a Jail and Green, maybe Ben Gary Trent Jr. Who is
twenty three. My next question obviously would be what's gonna happen with the Golden
State Warriors number seven and fourteen? Like, those are good picks to have.
You have Stephen Curry, you have Clay Thompson coming back, you have
Draymond Green, you have Andrew Wiggins. Your window is now, and I
think you have an obligation to continue trying to win so long as Stephen Curry
exists. You need to shop these picks. And I think the problem with
not jumping in with even one of these selections into the top four. And
they only could have kept Minnesota's pick if it was fourth because it was top
three protected who had a GHNA higher it was dated with Minnesota, But not
having that top four pick really hurts them in trade talks because I don't think
if you want to get Zach Levine or if you want to get a Brabby
Beal and I'm not saying those are the only guys out there. I just
they seem like they are most likely to be available. You're gonna also have
to attach James Wiseman and then other stuff as well. And then now you're
also in this issue of because the salary the cap holds are lower on these
rookies than they would have been had they been in the top four, you're
gonna have to include other salary in these bigger deals. The Warriors don't have.
Excuse me, I'm exhausted. I'm recording this at four to forty in
the morning, Eastern time, but the Warriors do not have those mid end
salaries to attach into these trades. They have Steph is making forty five point
eight. If we're looking at next year's salary, Clay is at thirty thirty
eight, about Andrew Wiggins is at thirty one point six, Raymond is at
a cool twenty four, and then it drops off from there where James Wiseman
as of right now, is actually their fifth highest paid player at nine point
two. Cavan Looney is six at five point two. It's a he has
a player option. So a lot of the things they do if it's a
bal trade just because beal salary next season is thirty four point five. You're
either looking at okay, Andrew Wiggins has to be included, or we're doing
an ubre sign and trade. If you were going after a Zach Lavine,
who I maintain is a good fit for this roster, a little bit more
workable just because you have his nineteen point five million dollars salary which is super
low, so you can get away with Wiseman Looney than using this the number
fourteen pick, and you also have the number seven pick. Like using those
as actual salaries, trading them you can come to an agreement whenever we know
all this works. But trading them thirty days after they sign their contract and
then other stuff, I just feel like the other stuff has to be more
significant now because you didn't jump in the lottery. I honestly don't know what
the Warriors will do. My guests would be that they probably don't make any
significant splashes just because they's going to be very confident in their ability to develop
these players. I don't know that they can do that while also juggling the
attempt to reopen their title window. But they also have a low maintenance superstar
and Steph where he has his three titles, he has his two MVPs.
It's not that he doesn't want to compete, but he might be okay with
I want to be a Warrior's lifer, and he's not going to try and
force their hand by using the threat of his free agency in two twenty two.
By the way, his extension owns will now, so he could say
he won't sign one and that he'll leave. That would be wildly out of
character and that would just be absurd. So I don't know what players would
be available again though, That's what this comes back to. And it's sort
of the same question with the with the Raptors too. Although the Warriors there's
more urgency there, it feels like there's more doors open for the Raptors because
they don't have that five player right now. You have, you know,
Siakam or Fred van Fleet, like, those are guys that I think Sam
probably peaks is like, or already has peaked, is like at that top
twenty top twenty five guy, and then last season he sort of dropped off
after that. But for the Warriors specifically shot the pick plural and other stuff,
and you have to I think now you're more likely what does that other
stuff look like? James Wiseman and number seven would be my guests or probably
the two main attractions that are included in an ideal, Whereas if you had
a top four pick, maybe you get away with not including number fourteen or
not including Wiseman or not giving up as many future picks. And look,
if I'm a team, I know front offices don't think this big picture because
they don't have that type of job security. But if I'm a team,
I'm looking at the Warrior's long term future, the age Klay Thompson, Stephen
Curry, Drammard green All on the wrong side of thirty. Yes, you
could be sending them a really good player now, but unless you're sending them
someone like who's super young, like Kasha Gildas Alexander, who was a trade
target I suggested for the Warriors, or if Colinth the Towns the side he
went out of Minnesota. Again, I'm not saying he would, but something's
like twenty five or younger, you start looking down the line. Golden State
owns a twenty twenty four pick to Memphis. It's loosely protected, assuming it
conveys you go out to twenty twenty six two twenty seven, shorten their future
is not the dumbest decision in the world, because there's a chance that they
might just be bad by that point. So if you can get some looser
protections on that and you're in a position where you're gonna make a move anyway,
I don't think that's a bad asset. And what the Warriors can also
do is by waiting to complete deals before the end of this draft, you
can get this year's picks from them and then also two twenty two, so
that helps as well. And look, we've seen teams. You look at
New Orleans with Drew Holiday, at New Orleans with Anthony Davis, and Houston
with James Harden. They've taken these far out future picks. It feels like
these halls for top let's say twenty five guys. Drew Holiday's probably right on
the fringes of that. They're getting bigger, and it's a lot, you
know, a lot of it is because these are contenders that are going after
these bigger names. The Warriors are in a similar boat where, yeah,
if they got a Bradley Beal, I don't know that they're as threatening as
the big three in Brooklyn. Overall, though, you expect them to be
good in the intern and so those future picks and yes, the immediate ones
because they have lottery in this case, which Milwaukee didn't. The Lakers did
have a lottery picked them jumping up into that DeAndre Hunter territory ended up helping
out their trade package. A great deal that helps the Warriors immediacy. But
you're you do have to look at that down the line value and I'm just
very curious to see what winds up happening with their off season. I'm also
looking at teams that are I don't I probably say this every year, so
I do not want to say that I think there are teams with more accelerated
windows that are in the lottery. It's just that's probably a thing I could
say every single season. But you look at like Sacramento at nine, even
New Orleans at ten, Charlotte at eleven, the Spurs at twelve, and
the Pacers at thirteen, like those are five teams that I would assume have
semi immediate aspirations. The Spurs I think are the wildest card there just because
Greg Popovic is seventy two and as long as he's in San Antonio. White
gush would be that they don't go full tilt into a rebuild. They did
hand out second contracts to Jean Day Murray and Derek White already at the same
time, they're at that natural reset point where you have Demard Rozen, Patty
Mills and Rudy Gay and entering free agency. You already got rid of LaMarcus
Aldridge, you have you can get. I think I have them pegged it
nearly fifty million dollars in cap space if they want to max it out.
So like, that's a ton of money that you don't want in this year's
market, and so do maybe prioritize taking on bad contracts that are going to
be attached to other picks. Is that market even gonna be booming when teams
aren't trying to clear necessarily for this summer, or do you go the other
out and say, well, we have this money, we're going to spend
big on free agents. My point being it would be uncharacteristic for the Spurs
to make a trade or move out of number twelve. But if there's still
that push to make the playoffs, like could that be in play? The
Kings are another wild card because it feels like they're sort of in crap or
get off the pot mode right now. They're so stuck in the sub middle
of the NBA that they need to pick a direction. Do you look at
selling off Harrison Barnes, Buddy Healed. How much does Rashaun holmes is price
tag factor into that decision? They have only early bird rights on him and
so effectively not to I don't want to lose anybody in the salary cap minusha.
They can pay him either round the league average salary or they have to
dip into cap space. And so my guests would be that he goes for
more than between ten or eleven million dollars, which is what they would be
allowed to pay him before dipping into cap space. They don't have cap space
right now, so you need to clear money. And if he leaves your
substantially worst team because he was there on balance, I would say second best
player overall last year behind Daron Fox, like that was the only one that
I look at. It was better maybe Tyrese Halbert and has stretches of more
impact. So do you lean into a rebuild and say, hey, we're
just gonna rejigger this around Fox Tyrese Halibert, and we'll see who we get
at number nine as well. Maybe they know Marvin Bagley showed hints of like
outside shooting again last year and sort of perked up at points. Do they
view him as part of the corps or do you maybe move number nine and
try and make that all of shin play that we've seen Phoenix make when they
went after Chris Paul. It wasn't They didn't give up like this huge ransom.
It was a matter of great opportunity for them. But if you want
to be competitive and Key Harris and Barnes don't want to get rid of Buddy
Heeled. If you actually want to be a playoff threat in the West,
like you got to stop existing in this sub middle, you have to pick
one way or the other. And so of these five, we're looking at
Indiana, San Antonio, Charlotte, New Orleans, and Sacramento. My guests
would be Sacramento is the most likely to move the pick. I've eve them
as a little bit less of a wild card for san Antonio because I can
never read san Antonio and most league insiders can't read san Antonio either. They
just operate in total mysterity. I would be curious to see what Sacramento could
build with the number nine pick. I don't view Marvin Bagley necessarily as a
net positive asset right now, but if you're intrigued by what he can do
in the open floor surrounded with enough spacing, he does have an interesting floor
game. If you do believe that he can knock down stand still jumpers on
long twos and even from three, then yeah, as value butches up a
bit, could be something like let's say number nine Marvin Bagley, Robert Woodard,
and then a LOTO protected twenty twenty two first for Jonathan Isaac. Like,
I think that level of player would be who they're looking at. I
don't know that they can get into a big wig conversation, nor do I
know that they need to. What is Bradley Bell doing for the league's worst
defense last season? They have the Aaron Fox, they have Tyrese Albert,
and yeah, I really really up to your offense. I mean if if
Bradley Bill said he wanted to come to Sacramento via trade, but I don't
know that they would be a team where I say Toronto or going and Staghoud
go after Zach Lavine. While Lavine is very good, I don't know that
I would encourage Sacramento to do that. I think they either needed to target
guys that are more two way impact players or who really just moved the defensive
needle, like a Jonathan Isaac where Orlando is just ushered in the rebuild.
And yes, they have the Chicago's pick at number eight in addition to their
own at number five they landed at. Would they be willing to take on
a third? Can they move nine and eight or nine and five or eight
and five to try and move up which teams in the top four, or
even consider moving out of their spots. I don't know that any of them
would, So there's there's moving parts there. I am curious to see what
the Pelicans entertained doing. They probably just end up keeping this pick, but
they do have some money that could stand to be moved off their books if
they want to keep lines Josh Hart and dangling number ten to get off of
Steven Adams or Eric Bledsoe. While bad form on its own, maybe that's
the ticket to building deals. We're actually bringing back positive value or impact players,
and you're not just washing off money Indiana again, a team that feels
like they should want to win soon. There. You know, you look
at that potential five man lineup of Turners of Bonus, Warren, Caro Silverton,
Malcolm Brogden didn't lock a single minute together this past season. They could
be really impactful. That's a nice, well balanced team. It doesn't feel
like there's going to be some roster turnover there. Whereas this the offseason they
find me break up the big man due of sa Bonus and Turner, and
I guess would be that they trade Turner. Are you packaging him? How
are you viewing that deal? Are you trying to divest him into multiple maybe
role players and while lessening your payroll so that you can afford to bring back
t J. McConnell and Doug McDermott without dipping into the tacks, or are
you gonna lean the other way? And is it you know, Miles Turner
and throwing number thirteen out there and seeing what that can get you maybe addition
to some other stuff, you do have Aaron Holiday, Jeremy Lamb's salary makes
for a good South matching fodder. So I'm so fascinated with a lot of
those end of lottery teams, and one of my overarching questions for the draft
this year is, well, oh, let's start here. Let's get one
more team specific question before the look at the bigger picture, or maybe even
two more. Chicago, this was a disaster for them. They had the
top four protective pick. They owd Orlando. It's obviously conveying because it's going
to number eight. You make that deal. I don't want to hear that
this was about kind of moving past this season. You make that deal this
season because you wanted to make the play in tournament. I know missing Zach
Lavine. I can't remember the moment. I think he had COVID, but
he missed a couple of weeks that ended up hurting you. I understand that
happened, But you missed the play in and then you sent out the eighth
pick to Orlando. Yeah, you still have Vooch, but you didn't need
him towards the end of the season because you didn't make the plan. That
was the whole point of that trade. And now what's your avenue towards improving
this roster. You can get some cap space, but you're not gonna have
a ton unless you wave the guaranteed deals of Thomas said Eranski, who's partially
guaranteed five million, and then that he is young, who's partially guaranteed six
million. And I don't know why you'd want to get pay that he's young
to go away when he can still be an impact defender for you and even
Thomas Saderanski to provide you with some secondary ball handling. And if you do
carve out cap space, are you going to look at renegotiating and extending zach
Lavine before you look at trying to add talent. Yes, you can wait
until one he's not signing an extension is going to be a renegotiating extend where
he can immediately increase his salary next season what you need cap space to do,
or he's gonna wait twenty twenty two free agency where he will have max
offers. And that's why you're not going to sign an extension that can only
give him one hundred and twenty percent rays off of that nineteen point five million
dollar number next year, because he has the ability to make more than ten
million dollars more than that as a starting salary and in free agency, and
if you don't renegotiate and extend him with your cap space, you risk losing
him for nothing in twenty twenty two free agency. It's really just that simple,
assuming you keep him, because there's a chance you make the playoffs that
east is still open in that way. There's also a chance that you flame
out during those playoffs or you don't make those playoffs at all, and he
just has eyes for another franchise that will be teams with max room, teams
that are better closer to competing for a title or just going deeper into the
playoffs. You really need to have a feel for what he's thinking. You
also need to weigh the cost of renegotiating and extending him now, because if
you clear cap space to do that, that's your move. You haven't brought
back lowry marketing unless you somehow just cut a ton of money elsewhere. You're
not making any of these other big time moves. You're not using cap space
to sign guys who really help you. You're limited then to using the room
exception as opposed to the mid level exception, and so you're losing that spending
tool or the ability to operate as an over the cap team. If you
need cap space to renegotiate and sign Leavine. Is this Bulls team, as
presently constituted with a healthy Zach, Klaven and Rooch, are they guaranteed to
make the playoffs? And in that scenario, I'm assuming if you renegotiate an
extend Zach Lavine and Larry market is not back. I just honestly don't know.
And so that's a team to watch, just because I don't think this
has to be a matter of Zach Lavine asking for out. I think the
Bulls after that Voods trade, are now confronting awkward realities following their failure to
make the play in tournament, and maybe this is all. Maybe they go
the other direction too. You still have Kobe White, you have future draft
equity if you're willing to trade out beyond your twenty twenty three pick, pending
that obligation to Orlando. You have Patrick Williams, who I would not suggest
a moving I thought he was spectacular and it ended up providing good value for
someone who was drafted at fourth basically out of nowhere. Everyone was shocked by
that pick. Do you try and package those together to take another swing?
Again, I don't know who the player is that you're going after, but
you are sort of pot committed to this core in the sense that you already
tried to win. Now, the other thing for me, the final team
specific question is the Oklahoma City Thunder. So they went into this with like
a fairly good chance of having two top four picks, and you left with
zero top four picks. You still have three first round picks, but six,
sixteen, and eighteen just aren't as sexy. I feel like they're going
to be active on draft night. Do they use sixteen and eighteen to move
up? What can they move from there? Like? What is the team
that's looking to divest into two picks? Like, is Indiana so concerned at
their tax bill they would give you thirteen for sixteen and eighteen? Is that
even worth it? If you're Oklahoma City, they have so many picks from
moving forward, they're going to have some roster spot issues and they might want
to add via free agency. I would I think you have to bet against
that just looking at how many players they're already going to have projected to be
on the roster next year. But it feels kind of unlikely that they're going
to keep all three of those picks. Maybe one of them or two of
them even as a draft in stash, that's always a possibility. But they're
just a team to watch at this point, and they're projected to have a
boatload of cap space this summer. Still the Kemba Walker trade impacted that a
little bit, but like, this is a team where if they want,
if you're announcing all your own free agents, and this is while keeping like
non guaranteed deals for Kendrick Williams, Gabriel Deck and lu Dort, you can
still get thirty seven plus million dollars in cap space, so they if they
want to take on money, they can do that. I've also wondered how
they're going to handle the shake guilt to Alexander extension situation. It's either maxim
now maximum restricted free agency, or do you think about maybe trading him to
see what he can fetch. And the fact that you don't have those two
high end first round picks, now, does that make it more likely because
you could look at some of those other teams and while you know the Raptors
among the top four squads are the only ones that can be billed as when
now, I don't know, Detroit not interested in Shay Houston. Our guess
is an interested in Shay Cleveland having sex, and in Garland they're probably not
interested in Shay. But Toronto Born Orlando, it's just or even look Golden
State using seven and just throwing them that you use seven and Wiseman like,
does that get you? In the conversation for Schekula ch Axander knowing he's extension
eligible, is that something that the thunder do. I'm not saying that they
should. I would pay makes it. I would pay Sekula Joxander. I
think he is a monster, and you just look at the improvement he made
this season as being the primary engine of an offense and the efficiency that he
carried, and he was almost ninety percent of his looks went unassisted, one
of the highest shares in the league. So he is special. But he
does have that plant or fascia issue. And while I'm not advocating for teams
to save money maxing out someone when you're still kind of so early in this
rebuilding process, it can get a little bit awkward. Shay Gila Alexander is
probably so young that it maybe doesn't matter to them. He is twenty two.
He turns twenty three. In July. So, but the Thunderer just
always teams to watch. At this point, they already traded for for Kema
Walker. Finally, overall, the question would just be like what type of
trade activity are we're going to see on Draft night? As I already mentioned,
Oklahoma City has three first round picks. The Houston Rockets have three first
round picks. Sort of the product of these superstar trades is it feels like
these draft picks have been condensed and there are teams that need to win now
where you know they could agree to trades on Draft night and then push the
deal through when they're no longer future picks. So the Clippers can trade number
twenty five, the Nuggets can trade number twenty six, you know, the
Sixers number twenty eight broken n Tuckilly trade number twenty seven, you talk and
trade number thirty. Are there We're going to see contenders be like sort of
aggressive because I already mentioned like those back end of the lottery teams, where
are they going to do the Lakers number twenty two, that feels like a
potential chip that could be used where if they're trying to land a bigger name
or even help themselves complete in eventual sign and trade, but that's not something
you could figure out until free agency starts legally. Anyway, the Knicks have
two first round picks, number nineteen and number twenty one from Dallas. Is
there a way to move up with those two? How many spots are you
jumping up? Like? Is Washington giving you fifteen for nineteen and twenty one?
Is that even worth it? And if you're the Knicks, you also
have the way you know, having two first round picks might not be just
a bad idea because yeah, you're good, You're really good this season.
You still have to we'll talk about this in a few moments. There's the
issue sustainability there, and you do need to still be in talent acquisition mode.
Maybe you get lucky and find you an e manual quickly type impact player
in one of those picks. You're giving yourself two bites at that middle to
the end of the first round apple to nab someone who could be part of
next season's rotation, which is important. You're not looking for a ten polestar
prospect. They don't have one of those. RJ. Barrett comes pretty close.
He's their best chance at having one. I do think he's a legitimate
option there. We just need to see what he looks like with more on
ball reps, as a creator for himself on off the dribble jumpers, and
as an initiator for others. But there feels like we could be set up
to see a bunch of action on Draft night towards the latter end of the
draft. I don't know, looking at the top, if we'll see as
much. It really that might just tinge on the Warriors and how aggressive they're
going to be on the trade market, and maybe that's just not something we've
even see until later on in the off season that develops. But those you
know, at number seven, it's less of a consensus there, so you
probably want to be making sure that you're picking for the team you're eventually completing
a trade with. But just teams that have those multiple first Oklahoma City with
three total, two outside the lottery, the Nicks with two outside the lottery,
the Rockets with three in total and two outside the lottery, and then
just those contenders, feels like we might be set up to see a lot
of movement on Draft night, the type of you can't really see coming,
the deals that are going to come out of the woodwork. I have talked
enough about this though. If you have any thoughts about the NBA lottery,
feel three to throw them at Hardwood Knox on Twitter. I'm at Dana Valley
fav alle Without further delay, though, let's get to talking some New York
Nickabocker's basketball. We're looking at their off season, talking a little bit about
this season and whether the view of it has changed after they flamed out unceremoniously
against the Atlanta Hawks in Round one free agency targets. We're talking a whole
bunch of stuff. RJ. Barretts, Development, Mitchell Robbins, and Julius
Randall. It was really fun. So let's get to Jonathan MacRae and Andrew
Claudio of Nick's Film School. What is krack olakin Hardwood Knox listeners, I
am Dan Valley coming at you without my treacherous co host Adam frommel. I
am, however, super pleased and excited to be joined by the folks from
Nick's Film School. We have Andrew Claudio and Jonathan MacRae. You have heard
their Twitter handles in the intro that I just recorded before we actually dropped this
podcast, So check them out. On Twitter, and be sure to check
out the Knicks Film School podcast that spectacular. I was on it once for
some reason. I think they were slumming it that day, but it was
a lot of fun. So check them out YouTube where all your podcast players
are. They have the Nicks Film School Letter. It is dope as f
gentlemen, How are you doing today? John? You go first, because
this is this is actually pretty funny. I got top billing on this and
John is like the face of the Knicks Film School podcast. So I mean
I go alphabetical order, like I have notes here. So Andrew's been coming
for the throne for a while. I know it's part of his and master
plan. Listen, you watch Stringer bell I am Marlowe, and that is
a reference. You don't know because you've never seen the wire. I've read
enough Bill Subman's columns over the over the years to get the reference. I'm
well, I'm enjoying the off season. It's it's weird that we're so we're
recording this on Lottery Night. It's very strange for me to sit here and
be like, I don't really care what happens. But it's it's a good
It's a good. Strange, I'll say that top billing, Andrew, how
are you doing? I'm good, I'm good. I echo about lottery night.
That for once I haven't cared whether, like what time is the lottery?
We're not planning any content around the lottery tonight. You know we're from
two years ago we pretty much shut down a bar in midtown Manhattan with the
largest capacity crowd that ESPN came because it was the Zion draft, and just
two years later it I might not even watch it. It might be driving
all it happens. I'm sure I'll have interest in it, but it's it's
weirdly an optimistic time for Knicks fans. Among the three to seven listeners we
have, I think two of them do know that I am like a deatingly
disenchanted Knicks fan. Is how I classify myself. I do cover the league
at large for a living, but it's nice to not have any sort of
emotional investment in what happens, because I like to root for chaos. But
when the Knicks are involved, like, yeah, you want them to get
little Good, you want them to get Zion, And there's a part of
you that dies inside a little bit each time when when they don't. So
I'm still gonna watch because I have to, and also it's fun and I'm
ready for like the scenarios of one four two teams having like two the top
four picks. Maybe, but I'm with you two. It's exciting that they're
not in the lottery, but you know, I feel like there are still
so many questions about their future despite them like really blowing expectations out of the
water. Where for me personally, I don't know how you guys feel about
this. The Cinderella nois of this past season has kind of faded for me
where I think they aren't a much better position and it feels like there was
this real cultural shift, But I'm also not fully confident that they're going to
keep bringing this thing in the right direction. And I'm just curious as to
where you two stand Following everything the regular season, what happened in the postseason?
Did that the way they flamed out against the Hawks, the way that
Julius Randall played that changed the way you feel at all about either one this
season or two their their outlook. I mean, the Cinderella inness to me
of it was most relevant because as as the you know, older respect to
the Timberwolves and trying to think, I guess the Suns for large portions of
the last twenty years, like the Knicks have been the laughing stock of the
league for two decades, and that level of stink takes many a shower to
wash off, and this season washed it off. But that only matters if
you nail the next steps, which is where we're right now. I think
the the other part of it that the playoff series kind of dullted, is
like, you know, so, why do you need to wash off the
stink? You need to wash off the stink so good players want to come
play for your team, right, Okay, well that's that's helpful. Not
a great free agent class. Then you turn to Julius Randall because he's the
one player that I think emerged this season as like, okay, maybe we
already have that really good player. And then he went out and over the
course of five games against the Hawks didn't look so hot. So I think
I don't, like, it hasn't washed off for me yet, but there's
definitely a possibility that I'm sitting here, what is it, It's end of
June, like two months from now, and like depending on what they do
and free agency, depending on if they make any big trades. It might
be like not that last season has like disappeared, but that the long term
ramifications are are maybe more muted than we felt they would be. Well,
it was happening, probably the best way I could I could say it.
So it's I'm similar to John and that I'm curious what they do next,
and that will determine how special this season was, how much of a change
there actually was, and how permanent that change is. I just look at
what the Hawks have done over the past two rounds, and I feel personally
much better that we got a game in against them. You know, at
a certain point, you know you have to accept that what the Hawks have
built is actually a model that you know, you're like a good offseason away
and a few correct draft choices away. And if you look at some of
the other teams with their questions, the Mavericks, the Sixers, like I
would rather have the Knicks problems of acquiring stars than we have a guy on
a max contract already that we don't know what to do with at the moment.
So the Knicks and their flexibility forever all I've ever wanted them to be,
and John, this has been one of your calling cards since the beginning.
We just want them to be normal. We don't need them to be
like extraordinary at first. Just have a season where you're normal and with the
lowest possible payroll. They they were a fourth seed in the Eastern Conference,
So now you become this free agent destination just because you're normal. And I
think that'll that'll stem from the success they had this season and who will want
to be part of that success going forward. I agree with everything you said,
except I'd probably rather still have Dallases and the Sixers problems. I'd just
rather have Joel Embiid or Luke Dants. But that's not a problem, is
what I'm saying. But like the Knicks, with the questions, you still
have to answer. The Knicks at least have the flexibility that they don't have,
like a glaring problem that you don't know the solution too. With the
Knicks there are options, whereas your options are limited when you have a limited
health. And I have no idea what to call Ben Simmon's problem right now,
like I don't know how to fix those problems just yet other than prayer,
you know, no, But I mean, I get what you're saying
then, and I'm kind of with you because, well, maybe I should
say, despite what we've seen this postseason, it's still Superstars League. Actually,
no, it's it's not. Despite what we've seen, Trey Young has
revealed himself to be a superstar. Jannis, for all of his faults,
is still the two time reigning MVP. Paul George is reminding us that,
hey, he's pretty damn good when he gets out of his own head.
And then you know Phoenix as booker, and you know Paul will hopefully be
back. But like, it's still Stars League. All those players I mentioned
or still have a higher ceiling than anybody on the Knicks right now. They
need to get that guy. It's just it's easier now for them to get
that guy than it would have been a year ago. But they still need
to go and do it, you know. And I think that's probably their
real test in looking at to see how much they've changed, because this summer
free agency, you're not getting that guy because he does not exist. Even
if Kawhi Leonard wanted I leave LA, we don't know what that ACL injury
is is right now at this recording and there's a chance that a good chunk
of his season next year it could be in jeopardy. And now he's just
had a lot of problems with that right leg. And are you going to
go out and either maintain your cap flexibility or you're going to throw these like
largees, you know, offers at other free agents that are you know,
at second tier at best, but you get to the third tier of free
agents pretty quickly. And so I'm jumping around a bit from the outline I
set you, but like what is like, what do you expect them or
want them to do in free agency? Do you think that this is going
to be a team that's linked to the sexiest names that are out there,
which is I think Lonzo Ball is the one that's been linked to them since
before the trade deadline. Or do you think that they're going to be really
about preserving their powder for twenty twenty two free agency, which you know that'll
be the last summer before if RJ signs an extension, that you're working with
a smaller cap hold with him, and then presumably you have Julius Randall on
his next deal after that summer as well. I mean, I think they're
gonna I think they will not to jump to another one of your questions in
the in that line, I think they're going to sign someone to a multi
year deal this summer, and I think that that player is going to be
you know, a name guy? What is a name? Like? There
are names that are out there if you're at like, here's the thing.
There are so many different ways I could see them coming out of the summer
improved and improved in a way that I find palatable. And several of those
ways have nothing to do with one another. For instance, is there a
world where if they got you know, Kyle Lowry and DeMar de Rosen right
to both accept let's say fair deals, let's say two year deals, right,
maybe a little bit more money than you'd like to pay, and you
could at least talk yourself into okay, we got two more shock creators on
the roster, including one of them in a position that we desperately need.
You know, we can maybe score around and talk ourselves into getting top four
again next year and putting a scary into somebody and then that being a step
towards like okay, you know, when the next person requests a trade,
we're more appealing for them to maybe want to come here and think that they're
like the missing piece. Yeah, I could talk myself into that. I
could also just again I'm getting added myself. I could also talk to myself
with the Lonzo Ball despite the fact that I think Lonzo Ball is the is
the very definition of like a quite nice players. He's a he's a good,
solid basketball player. Right. Is he going to change anything for this
franchise? Absolutely not. But he's young, he could do some stuff.
Maybe he could get better. Is that a sexy move in my mind?
No? You know, Josh Hart is another name that, like, you
know, he's got the CIA connection, the whole thing. Like, there
are different ways that they could go. I just think it's really important for
them to not And I've been saying this for years, well before this season,
don't sign any contracts that box you win, you know, don't you
the next person to sign that. I don't know that there is really necessarily
a Kemba Walker contract to be signed this offseason, or an Al Harford contract
or like some of these terrible deals we've seen signed, Like, don't sign
that deal. As long as you don't as long as you don't sign that
deal, I could live with almost famous last words, I could live with
almost anything else that they did. One thing that I think we've preached a
lot on our pot is just like whoever you sign, if it's not like
a Lowry or a Derosian or someone that you know is is here for like
a win now temporary thing is like like in Lonzo's case, as long as
the contract is tradeable, then I can't really argue that it's a bad contract.
It's it's the reports out there of like four for a hundred that were
ridiculous that I would that would be a bad move. And I this might
just be from going I mean, Dan, you're a Knicks fan, so
you'll understand this. But also as a Mets fan, I understand what incompetence
looks like. Just having a front office that seems to know what they're doing
and walked away from Gordon Hayward when the price got too high, walked away
from other potential trades or free agent signings, but when the cost got too
high, like having the structure in place. They kind of have my full
trust on this, And like John said, if it was Lowry and de
Rosen and we're just getting the twenty seventeen Raptors back together. Awesome if they
do pull the trigger on a superstar thing and go after Dame or one of
these other big stars, that forces their way to the Knicks. And that's
that's an element of this that I've been thinking of as far as like do
I see whether it fits or not. The Heat had no cap space and
no ways to acquire a star, and Jimmy Butler just found his way to
the Miami Heat. If a guy wants to come play in New York,
he will end up on the Knicks. Like that is as how this league
works. The players control everything, and it's why I have much more confidence
now that they have this front office in place, especially more than I did
two years ago, the last time we had a big off season full of
stars moving places. I agree with the I'm a big fan of create cap
space when you need it, like you know, especially if you're a team
that still wants to be good. Where I might waiver on the faith in
the front office is if you like the decisions they made last summer and the
extent to which they were involved with Gordon Hayward was worrisome to me to begin
with, but they did walk away. Think it's a lot easier to do
that when you're coming off a season in which you won at a you know,
twenty five wind pace versus a forty seven wind pace or eight forty eight
win Page wherever they were at this year, they've had that like taste of
success, and I worry about TIBs like barking in the front office's ear about
wanting more talent there. That being said, I think it's I would spend
multi year money on a guy like a Josh Hart, whether it's plug in
play, helps you on defense, helps you space the floor. I do
want to ask you about quick before I ask what would be your ideal targets
for outside of Alonzo? What is like the you mentioned four in a hundred.
I think he's very likely going to get at least four and like eighty
four. I feel like he's he going to be his minimum. Is that
money you're willing to give him? Knowing what you know, I think he's
become more plug and play on offense than people give him credit for. I
don't see the ability for him to drive in actual offense. He just doesn't
have that half court. I don't want to say feel, but that attack
mode. He's just can't shoot on drives. He's not going to run pick
and roll, and this team needs that. We saw how important Derek Rose
was to them this season, which look fantastic. But the fact that you
needed Derek Rose to be that good in the year of twenty twenty one,
you know, that scares the hell out of me. And so I'm just
curious as to what would be your walk away price with Alonzo Ball or do
you just not even if you had your drugs, do you just not even
think that that should be someone who's close to the top of their free agency
list. It's such a tough question to answer because if he's not at the
top of their free agents list, who should be? And if you're gonna
and then you're gonna ask, okay, well, if it's somebody else,
well what are they getting. It's like, all things being equal, would
I rather spend four years and eighty four million dollars on lonz of Ball or
Spencer Dinwoody four years and eighty four million on and not saying that these guys
are necessarily in the same price range, but like, you know, Norm
Powell is another guy, And then you talk about some of the older guys,
Like, I completely agree with everything you said on Lonzo. We're completely
on the same page as what kind of player he is. I think there
is still maybe some shooting upside there, and I wonder if there's a little
bit of pick and roll upside as well. I mean, it's funny to
say that about a player who is now entering his fifth season, like you
should know what this player is already. At the same time, he spent
a second year in the league on the same team as Lebron James, and
he spent his last few years in the league on the same team as Brandon
Ingram and Zion Williamson. And obviously he was with Ingram, you know before
that in LA. I guess if if some coach like Tibbs came to him
and like, look, I need you to do more stuff, Like what
can he do it? I don't I at while I while I on one
hand feel like maybe that's not necessarily what he wants to do, I'm also
not willing to say that he can't do a little bit more So I guess
it's funny, man, I'm not in love Alonzo, And at the same
time, I'm like I like Dinwitty, like Didnwitt, He's kind of always
been my guy. I have a big fantas mencra Denwitty. The injury is
what the injury is. You know, hopefully he'll be all right. But
again it's like, Okay, you're gonna sign a guard who we know can't
really shoot. That's great for the regular I think they'd be fine in the
regular season with Spencer Dinwitty and maybe even a little bit in the playoffs.
But I think we're seeing that in the playoffs. It's like defenses will figure
out a way to make that weakness, you know, like exploit it in
a large way. So how many years do you do you give that guy?
How contracted, how how tradable is that contract, like the at least
one? So I know, if we sign him, I'm pretty sure he's
always going to be an asset as long as it's not too much higher than
the number you said. So that's kind of my take on my lukewarm take
on Lonzo. So there's two sides to this for me. One is the
restricted free agency part of this, and the recent article in The Athletic I
four for eighty four. Yeah, I think i'd learned to live with it.
I'd talked myself into like I talked to myself in such a ringing endorsement.
If he's productive, then I'll like I'll figure out a way to be
like Okay, Like, who else are they gonna pay they improved the team.
I just think they're going to have to overpay for him because of what
Zion has said, Like they're gonna need to try and keep him happy while
he's in New Orleans, and by all accounts, he would like to have
Lonzo Ball on the team. So if four for eighty four ends up being
the number and they get him for that, I'll live with I there's a
second part of this that like the worst thing that happened to the Knicks in
the playoffs was like seeing how Reggie Bullock couldn't take advantage of Trey Young.
And now every Knicks fan is like, we need a guy that could take
elated for Trey Young, we need a guy that could dribble. And it's
like, or you play a different team in the playoffs next year, and
Lonzo's actually helpful in that series. You shouldn't just look to beat that one
team and that every year you're gonna have the same type of playoff series.
And I think Lonzo, if you look at him as a replacement for Bullock
and not your point guard of the future, that's actually a productive Like he's
a solid perimeter defender, he's a solid passer if you're looking at him as
of somewhat of a combo of what you got from Alec Burks. So I
think Alec Burks is much more dynamic offensively, and then a replacement for Reggie
Buller as a shooter like Lonzo's up the thirty eight percent from three, I
don't see how that's a problem. And then you can still go shopping for
a point guard. So I'm as far as the number is concerned with Lonzo,
I think whatever the Knicks offer, the Pelicans will match anyway just to
keep him happy happy, unless they get ridiculous with it. So four for
eighty four, to get back to answering your question, would be the number.
And I'm curious to see if that even gets it done. Yeah,
I'm anyone who listens to this podcast knows I'm like a big fan of sabotaging
other teams, So I would if you think the Pelicans are gonna match you
throw out like the close to max offer sheet and you just you fuck with
their cap sheet. That's a big fan of doing that. I love that
Jannis waited for every team to go through the free agency process last year before
signing a Supermax and that really screwed over Miami. Love it. I love
that type of gamesmanship Lonzo. I think though, for them at I like
what Tims could do with him defensively, because I don't think right now you
look at him as the one, like a good one on one defender and
just like kind of looking at what happened with Randall and how like much smarter
RJ. Barrett seemed in your two as a defender, and even what they
got out of Bullock, like the breadth of it assignments that Bullock covered this
year was just incredible. I would be excited to see Lonzo ball defensively.
I don't think he's a good fit for the offense unless you think signing him
infers that the Knicks are actually going to run, because that's where Lonzo ball,
and that's why you can maybe get excited about it. But because of
this, like I don't know that the dynamics are perfect or that we could
read into what his signing would mean if it goes beyond what I think it's
going to be like that average annual twenty one million dollars a year. That's
my walk away point as a fan. I want Lonzo Ball to get all
the money in the world. Big fans of players getting paid that seems his
expense. I don't care about billionaire pockets, but for the Knicks offense specifically,
there are too many questions about his fit. Aside from the shooting.
It's it's wild. You know, John mentioned this, what his shooting's up
to five years into his career. What the biggest concern was for him coming
in was that jumper. I don't even care about that. It's whatever you
want to say about the form, how much has changed, how wanky it
still looks. His shooting is not the issue. It's when you put the
ball in his hands, or if you need to put the ball in his
hands. I don't know enough about how the Knicks will adjust their offense with
him to think, yeah, you know what, just go in and be
the team with the most aggressive offers sheep, because he will help you.
I also want to see if they do sign if he's a guy like he's
a really smart basketball player. He's a smart cutter. He finds cutters,
Like that's a nice thing. Like you have RJ Barrett already. R J
Barrett. I feel like not he's been wasted for two years. But he's
a guy that like likes the duck in for for cuts and whatnot. And
I feel like they have not at all built a team that is good at
like that type of stuff. So if you get Lonzo and he's one more
piece, like do you like because you have a lot of money to spend,
you get another guy in the offense who could maybe facilitate that that sort
of you know, I don't know what you'd want to call that, smarter
offense, opportunistic offense, but that's just not how they played it all this
year. So, like to your point, it's just tough to it's tough
to see how it would it would look on the Knicks next year. It
all goes back to me for who the point guard is. I think Lonzo
next to brand to Eric Bledsoe looked average, which is you know, props
to him or even being able to look at everage. I think if you
put him next to a better point guard that I mean you sent. You
mentioned how Lonzo looks looks in the offense with the Knicks. I have no
idea what the Knicks offense is. A lot of it was just Randall do
stuff, Derek Rose do stuff. Hit a bunch of threes, and for
like two months they did. So that's how they ended up as the four
seed. I'm curious to see who the point guard is next to Lonzo,
and I'm trusting that the higher the powers that be that are much smarter than
me also see that when it comes to evaluating what he is. If they
were to try and ad him to this roster, I guess that's where I
diverge is if you have to pay him that much money and still need a
point guard, like you're just not set up to pay him right now.
There's there are certain there are certain teams, fine, but I think are
is there And I'll preface this with mine. I think it's been people I've
talked to. They think it's a wildly unpopular theory. But I'm a big
fan of keeping things fluid in New York because I don't know, you know,
if you give out four year deals to a guy like Lonzo I don't
think it's the end of the world, but I just don't know enough about
what these knicks are gonna do long term. I'd like to see them just
throw a two year max at Kyle Lowry and see what happens two years.
I think it's like a little bit over eighty MILLIONED amounts too. That's a
ton of money that he's not doing it. Maybe someone gives him three ninety,
but I just think that this is I'm sorry, weird notifications just popped
up on my screen. That's tripped me up. But that would be the
route I'd like to see them go because it's an overpay, but it's such
a smart player who gives you a lot of what you need and you do
keep things fluid. Where in two years, when RJ. Barrett's next contract
starts, when Randall's in you know, year two or year one of his
next contract, whatever it's gonna be, you still in position to change up
some things where I do think if you went aggressively after a Alonzo ball,
or maybe they just don't want to go aggressively after anyone, you might be
pigeonholed into something else. But I'm just curious is to alternatively, what's your
you know, one or two free agents? And I'll start with you.
Let's start with to Andrew first. This time, is there like a guy
out there that you're really hoping to see them go after? You said the
guy Lowry, I don't know about two for eighty. You wouldn't just give
him a two year max? And it's like, then that's your move though,
because then what else are you doing to improve the team? Like the
roster you want is not one that just is going to be the four seed.
You want to be able to see a path for this team to get
better. There's also and this is where him getting two for like sixty two
for fifty even would be the path because you'd like to think that like r
J. Barrett's gonna take a step, and Manuel quickly is gonna take a
step. You want like the perfect scenario for me is Derek Rose comes back,
Lucaville does is the real deal and then quickly takes more of a more
prominent role in the offense. I have no idea if Tims would ever trust
the keys to the car to a twenty two year old like that, but
if are you is that what you're thinking Lowry will command like two for eighty
over two years or that what you think the Nick should do. I think
try and for him to go to a team US here. I think for
him to go to a team that's a fringe contender, not an actual contender.
I think that's the type like you need to blow other if it doesn't
take that much, no it don't give it. But if you you know,
if he prefers the heat or sign and trade with the Sixers, and
they're probably gonna be teams that are dangling the third year, which is I
guess at a lower average annual value is fine, but like then you're in
the process of if they're offering let's say three and seventy five or three and
eighty, because I do think that he could get to I think he's gonna
take at least twenty million a year. You don't have to blow those offers
out of the water. And I'd rather deal with a two year max cap
it. If I'm the Knicks, then like a three year one at twenty
five or more million dollars. Then I don't know how popular this is,
but especially after the injury concerns we've seen in the playoffs, but if you're
gonna throw forty million a year at somebody and that's the plan, it's Chris
Paul. Like, I'd rather bring the point guide in here and have him
play in New York with his former agents. And that's like, why can't
the Knicks be what the Suns were this year? Probably because Devin Booker isn't
on the Knicks, But the point is, why can't he elevate the ceiling
of the Knicks? Is the way he's done every single team he's ever been
on. I almost wonder, Oh, look, I'm not saying Kyle Lowry
is Chris Paul, but I do think this past year, with what happened
to the Raptors, I mean I don't. I felt like I personally didn't
pay enough attention to the fact that they were playing in a city that was
how many whatever in Tampa, Yeah, two thousand miles away or whatever it
is from from a thousand I don't. My geography is stterable, but like,
they clearly had the season from hell, and if you look at how
they operated down the stretch of their season, they're organizationally they were fine with
like, let's we're just gonna like try to get as good a pick as
we can and wipe our hands of this thing. I think it's caused us
to maybe not not forget what Kyle Lowry is. But like if you would
have said before the season, if you would have asked the like Chris Paul
or Kyle Lowry question for you know, who would you rather give, you
know, three guaranteed years to following this season? I think, you know,
based on maybe some of the injury stuff with Paul, you would have
at least thought, like had had a discussion with yourself in your head,
you probably still pick Paul. And now obviously Paul has led the Sons to
the conference finals and Lowry didn't even make the playoffs. Like, if I
could get Lowry for for two for like fifty five, which is what personally
I think you can get him for in New York, maybe two for sixty,
that that elevates your ceiling I think, so much more than any other
single free agent signing you could make this summer. And then if you could
just add like one more semi dynamic piece, even if it's like maybe potentially
through the draft. I don't know who that other piece is. Maybe it's
Josh Hartt, you know, speaking of things that were recently set on podcasts,
But like, yeah, i'd be cool with Kyle Larry. I love
Kyle Lowry. Kayle Lowry, Like how many times last year we're re all
sitting here and we're like, if the Knicks had a real point guard,
they'd be a fifty win team. That's the thing about Lonzo that I think
also gets lost is literally, anybody but number six is an upgrade over what
the Knicks have. So as a result, I think Lonzo for four for
eighty four, it's like, well he's not number six, can't be the
evaluation of why you do it, because like John isn't number six, And
there were moments where I think you could have put up, if not better,
at least the same production as number six last year. Yeah, when
you look at their own free agents, and I think this is probably something
that's just undercovered about them. Everyone assumes they have all this cap space and
like they do, and the cap holds on these guys aren't huge, but
you do have I would say, two fairly important free agents in Alec Burks
and Norlands. No, well you don't have bird rights on It's like that's
going up based off what they were paid this year. It's gonna probably take
cap space if you want to resign them. You also have Reggie bullocky of
early bird rights on him. I think he gets the full MLI from somebody,
which then lead me to believe that they're gonna have to use cap space
to resign him too. You do have Derek Rose, which he's gonna command
less than his cap hold or maybe right around his cap hold. But is
there of that group of their own free agents, who do you, John
View, is the most must keep. I will preface this answer by saying
it obviously it depends on what else they do, but on on the surface,
it's it's obviously Derek Rose. He was If they didn't have Derek Rose
in these playoffs, they would have gotten swept and with an average margin of
defeat by I don't know, twenty points. He was the only thing that
was keeping them in all out of those games and he was there. I
mean, if you look at the on off numbers, he had the best
on off numbers of of you know last year. He is so important to
everything they that they did in terms of juicing the offense, like the difference
between the first half of the season and the second half of the season was
they like there were so many times, you know, over the first like
forty games or so where you just like, how is this team scoring another
bucket? Like with all the respect to Julius Randol, and then Rose kind
of helps solve that problem. That said, if they signed Kyle Lowry,
does Derek Rose become as essential? Well, Lowry plays thirty minutes at night,
you figure Emmanuel quickly they're going to give him maybe a little bit more
ball handling duties. Like, so Derek Rose is is the answer right now?
I think between Burkes and Bullock, I'm also a Bullock guy first and
foremost. I think there's a lot of fans out there who feel like Burks
is more important because he could put the ball on the floor, he could
play point guard on a pinch. But I am not reading too much into
the Atlanta series. I like Reggie Bullock was massively important to this team this
year. And his shooting and it's not just like you look at a shooting
percentage and whatever it is. It's like it's a quick release and he's not
a movement shooter, but he also relocates and he's like he's he really when
he was going, that's what brought their offense to another level, almost as
much as anybody else on the team. Noell, I don't think they need
to bring back, to be honest with you. You know, Perks will
see what else they do. But like I thought Burks was really important for
them too. But will yeah Rose than than Bullet. It's the easy answer
is that I think I'm just not interested in telling me how irreplaceable a center
is in twenty twenty one. I think Mitchell Robinson coming back is an option
Tosh Gibson, I honestly put as a more important free agent than oh Tash.
Yes, I would rather have him back as the backup center or is
in like the third center on this team. And who knows what they do
in the draft, if it's you know, getting someone that can be a
backup center to Mitchell Robinson, who will inevitably end up playing important minutes because
Mitchell Robinson just cannot stay on court unfortunately. I would hope that Emmanuel quickly
evolves into what we got from Alec Burke's this year. Your hope is that
he's your spark off the bench that gives you that type of instant offense.
We'll see if these new rules about unnatural shooting motions affects Quickly's production next year.
But yeah, I Derek ros of those four or five is clearly number
one. Plus you want to talk about affordable contracts, I think if Tibbs
came to him and said one hundred grand, but like you get to play
with me, he would consider it at least. So as far as I'm
concerned, Derrick Rose one Bullock two just defensively and how hot streaky he was
throughout the season, you want him back. And then like the other part
of nos Noel is And this might just be wishful thinking for me, I
would like to see Obe Top play some minutes at the five, So that's
another person that can replace Neurland's Noel in the rotation if As as far as
options for the NIXT going forward, I agree that centers are eminently replaceable.
But given the injury Mitchell Robinson's coming back from, and I'd be curious to
see what topping at the five lineups like, look like, who's your four
in that situation? Like That's the tough part is I'm also don't trust tips
to actually play topping at the five. I'm just hoping there's a world where
he's like, oh wow, our most athletic player in the playoffs. We
should have him on the court more often than he isn't. Yeah, I
mean, look, he played night and day when you look like the last
like, I don't know, a few weeks months of the season, like
he just looked like a player who understood how to play in the NBA.
So I hope he gets more minutes of them. I just knew a point
guard with him. He finally had a point guard with him. You know,
I don't view know well as the most important rason want to make the
player. I just think he's a little bit more important, especially because one
the Mitchell Robinson injury, and we did at least see like Mitchell Robinson's foal
rate was down a lot this year before he got injured, So that does
concern me. Mine's actually Bullock is the most important free agent to me because
I view him as a fit for whatever iteration of this team comes next.
And you guys already mentioned with the defense and the thing that about is shooting,
and there was kind of like a turn towards the middle of the year
where like the volume just went through the roof, and I think that's important
for a team that I think needed to shoot more threes. And I also
don't want to be in a position and again this all depends on if you
don't resign Bullock, you made other moves, but like, if that move
is Lonzo and Bullock is part of the collateral damage, all of a sudden,
it's RJ. Barrett like has to cover like probably the toughest wing defensive
assignments on a more consistent basis, which would worry me. So I just
view everything he did is as so important and I think he's the He's like
the one guy that they of their main guys that I think they need to
bring back the most. Well, I'm shocked, Dan that you didn't mention
another potential free agent. That's look, I know my thoughts on Frankie Lakina
are not shared on this three person group, let alone the rest of the
Knicks or NBA like intelligensa, I will say, if Frankie Lakina is good
enough defensively to where you want to put him in after not playing for most
of the game, entre Young and then just be if you need him in
that situation. And I'm not gonna blame him for that gaff because he played
like what three seconds in the first half or whatever. It was something stupid
like that. Maybe he should have been in the rotation. I do think
there was just some politics at play because a certain somebody was fired as his
agent back in the day. I would love to see Frankie Lakina be back.
I want to see him somewhere he he could play. But so he's
number one in my heart, but I think functionally, Reggie Bullock is their
most important free agent, and I think Alec Burks is probably number two for
me for all the reasons. Just he put the ball on the floor.
He made some really big shots down the stretch of close games this year.
He was their most important fourth quarter player this season if you take into account
everything he did from Game one to even you know, game one of the
regular season, the game one of the playoffs, which was only good playoff
game. But like again, they wouldn't have been in that game without Parks.
To be clear, I'm not as anti frank as I've let on I
I do, I do wish my like I'm going into the playoffs. It
was please bench number six, and it was anybody else like to play Frank
not to go with eight people Like I was hoping that the minutes that were
dedicated to him would then go to a much smarter, much more productive defender
of the shop forty seven percent from three this year. So like, I'm
with you on I'm if anything my hopes for Frank and we can close out
the Frank nigan A part of this, this is part excuse me. I
would like to see Frank just go somewhere and play so we can know once
and for all if he actually is, like if it was just a Knicks
thing that he like, the Knicks couldn't figure out a way to use him,
or if he goes somewhere and it's Trevor Rees or was like, oh,
he's on a team that is contributing toward winning. You know, I
think it's pretty clear. And I will say this is probably the version of
the Knicks that came closest to using him this way. Frankie Laikina's best bet
at having success in the NBA's as a three and D wing essentially, don't
put the ball in his hands ever, ask him the space the floor,
Can he get the volume up there on offense, and if he's able to
hit threes at that type of clip with higher volume, that's a you know,
that's a top five NBA player. There's like three weeks this year.
There was like three weeks this year where Derrick Rose had was struggled with was
with COVID Alec Burke Smiths some time because he was in protocols. Reggie Bullock
would miss a game or two and frank got an opportunity and was used the
way you just suggested. I would hope that a team would be able to
use him that way. Plus, we're about to see him go dominate the
Olympics like we did the last time we had an international tournament, and the
Knicks will somehow get laughed at because Frankie Lakina looked productive somewhere else. I
was laughing at them when he was playing well with the national team the last
time. Then it was laughing. It was laughing at Steve Mills and Scott
Perry and all of them. So yeah, it was a little bit better.
Look, at least they can cite patriotism for benching him in those big
moments this year. You go, that's that's what we want is the Knicks
don't play international players. That's definitely. I'll loop these two together since we
are pressed for time, Randall Kinside and extension this year, John has what
happened in the playoffs give you any reticence about what you would want to give
him. I think the number that was thrown out like publicly and then even
behind the scenes was just four year and one hundred seems four years and a
hundred million seems fair. Is that, you know, a twenty five million
dollars year price point something you're comfortable with. And there's also Mitchell Robinson's team
option, which I think is even more interesting following his injury, because if
you want to preserve flexibility, it's pick up the team option. Yes,
he goes to unrestricted free agency next year, but the cap hold is so
small you could still pay more if you need to. At the same time,
centers are cheaper to begin with, and he's coming off an injury.
There might be and I'm not trying, you know, deflate his price point
on his behalf, but from the team's perspective, he might be willing to
take long term security at at a cheaper rate. Now as a restricted free
agent coming off this fracture right foot. Yeah, I mean the random question
isn't really a question to me because they they're captive, as you just mentioned
their captive. What they could pay him because it's it's one hundred and twenty
percent of what his salary is going to be next year, which is the
top side of like twenty six million, if you factor in the bonuses that
he got, which I as might as I read the CBA. They they
should. That is what they can do. Like if you okay, so
he gets paid, you know, for for whatever something in the one teams,
you know, that makes him what's gonna wind up after like some other
extensions are signed this summer. It's gonna make him like a borderline top fifty
player in terms of pay scale in the league. Even the version of Julius
Randall that we saw against the Hawks, he's worthy of being the you know,
forties seven highest paid player in basketball. So that's if he wants to
accept an extension, whether it's two years, three years, four years,
option, no option, whatever, give them all the money you can.
The Mitch question is more interesting to me because the one thing that you didn't
mention that's a possibility is they pick up the team option, so he plays
next year for them for one point eight million dollars. But then they could
still negotiate an extension with him. It's only the most that they could offer
him. Different rule than the random rule, but still there's a limit.
Is a numbers starting that I believe about twelve million dollars a year. If
I'm Mitchell Robinson and I just fractured my foot or whatever the hell happened,
and I'm seven feet tall and I've made thus far five million dollars in my
NBA career whatever, and I've had to hand that over some of that to
how many different agents. I know he's not handing per agent, but like
you get the point, like, I don't know if the Knicks are willing
to give me three years that the most they could give me, or even
four years of the most they give me, I sure think about that.
And then what I like about it is the Knicks could play hardball. And
again I'm not trying to just like you, you want players to get paid.
I too want players to get paid. But I also recognize the fact
that, as you said, investing a lot of money in a center who
has not really shown you much on offense. I mean, obviously he's a
devastating lob thread, but like he hasn't added anything else to his game,
at least outside of like mixtapes. Like they have Norland's Nowell, who they
can negotiate with. They know Taj Gibson could play twenty five minutes a night.
There are good centers in this draft where they're picking. We have seen
teams of late. Look at Beef stew on the Pistons last year. That
dude walked right into the Pistons lineup and was like contributing almost from day one.
Like they have so many options, they don't need to feel like,
oh my god, if Mitchell Robinson leaves and understrict the free agency a year
from now, we're screwed. So I say pay him one point eight million.
If you can negotiate an extension, great, If not, you can't.
So as far as Randall goes, I'm big on sample size, and
like there were stretches this year where like I'm looking at his game log now
to find a specific one on the fly, but I would just tell you
there were stretches this year where he had moments like he did or like five
game stretches where he couldn't make a lot of shots, and because the Knicks
were so I so heavy, it was tough for him to really get going.
I do not My thoughts on him just haven't changed because of five games.
That's just how I operate. The much larger sample size of the regular
season tell me that this is a guy getting better. This is a guy
that likes to work on himself, working on his game. And my trust
is more that the Knicks see that and we'll look to find better pieces around
him that compliment him, will help him get better. That way, if
he will take the extension that we talked about, I absolutely give it to
him. I don't think he will, which is, you know, a
bigger conversation Mitchell Robinson, I'm John said everything I would have said. I
think having him come back and then talking to him about an extension is the
option U having that value at one point eight million is I think one of
the more valuable contracts in the NBA. If he stays healthy, which it
just takes one season for him to stay healthy, and then all of a
sudden you have like one of the better defensive like Mitch isn't like Rudy Gobert,
which that's a duck, you know, but like it's not. But
it's not like he's like trust a rim protect protector. He's a guy that
can get out on the wing. Like, riddle me this, batman,
What did Jazz have rather had Rudy Gobert down the stretch or a healthy Mitchell
Robinson while the the Clippers were playing three point shootout? Okay, we're playing
a three point contest down the stretch of the second half of that game.
There's your hot take, and I think it's a bad one. What I
think is, second, look at that Robinson is able to guard their wing
like he has all most of it the promise that the Jazz Wings can't guard
the wings, and that was the bigger issue in the Clipper series. So
if you had they were targeting him in Game six though, is my point.
But if you had Mitch, they would have just been there. Still
would have just been ways around it because the Jazz Wing defensive talent, there's
a there's a talent drain there and unless you're gonna go bullyball like in one
on one situations, whether it's Mitch, whether it's Rudy Gobert, like any
big man who wasn't like an actual wing would have been a liability even if
you had wing, Even if you had like a lockdown wing. In that
scenario, Utah was vulnerable at enough points on the perimeter there would have just
been more holes there. And so I feel like your mister big sample size
overheads a lot into a small sample size performance. But I asked about the
one game sample size performance. That's all I'm not saying over an eighty two
game season, would you rather have the defensive play of the year Mitchell Robinson.
This was only credit to what Mitchell Robinson can give you, and that
it's not just rim protection as everybody applies to centers. This is a guy
that can cover a lot of ground from corner to corner, because I've seen
it. His only issue is health. He's gotten his fouls down. He's
a I mean the pick and roll that killed them in the playoffs because they
couldn't stop it. Imagine Mitchell Robinson stepping in against Trey Young and Clint Capella.
I think if you get one healthy season out of miss Robinson, it's
it's gonna be a positive more than a negative. I think you might have
just turned me against Mitchell Robinson. By the Mitchell Robinson there was like more
controlled arna anarchy to his game this year, which I really like. It
was just that more under control, moving on quickly since we are pressed for
time. I think this was last year. I think the national discourse was
Mitchell Robinson's the most important Nicks prospect. Now it's shifted to Julius Randall's the
single most important player in the organization. I think part of that is also
a lot of people probably expected this year's draft pick to be the single most
important part of the organization. Yeah, my stance is I think our Barrett
is the single most important player of this organization because he is. I think
what we've seen from Randall second team All NBA, that is Randall at his
peak. That is Randall at his peak. We still don't necessarily know what
r J can become and what he showed defensively this year, and I know
is shooting improved. I think I mentioned this on your part. I'm marveled
at just what he was doing. It was on the ball, but just
like the reads he was making away from the ball too. How do you
guys view him and his ceiling long term. Have you seen enough from him
where you think that he deserves or will get more initiation responsibility or hit more
of like those unassisted jumpers. Andrew's laughing at me, right, you know,
do you know the history of one Jonathan MacCray and RJ Barrett? Well,
I could, I could say it briefly if you want. I'm not
to it, Okay, it was we recorded a mailbag POD's six games into
the year. Six games in year. I want to say it was more
like seven or eight, but whatever it is, whatever it was, RJ
was had not hit a three since the first game of the year, or
maybe he was on his second one or the one for twenty one as opposed
to be over twenty one, two different streaks. So in my defense,
like he couldn't hit the far side of a barn. He was forcing up
really like a lot of garbage at the rim. And I was asked to
rank the Knicks trade assets, and I put him fifth, and I put
him after Randall, topping the next two years of the next two years first
round draft picks, and then from that point essentially for the rest of the
season, though he kind of slumped a little bit in the middle there for
a couple of panfuls of games and then towards the end, like he was
a different player. And if you look at his affective field goal percentage from
I think it was literally from the day that I recorded that pod until the
end of the year. And then you factored in his points, his rebounds
and assists, like he you know, he was up there with all of
like the guys in the league. I completely agree with your take. Then
I think there is a chance that by the end of next season we are
looking at RJ Barrett and we're saying he's the best player in the Knicks and
that it's not close. And that is with all due respect to Julius Randall,
who was amazing this year, and I've fought vociferously for or argued vociferously
for in terms of he should get m V people. It's all MBA,
the whole thing. But like r J is a consistent like pull up mid
ranger away, not just that it's the pull at mid ranger, and it's
like he needs to get five percent better at the rim, not ten or
fifteen percent. Five percent better at the rim, like one or two of
those shots that he takes every game like they don't need to go, Like
he just needs to eliminate those couple of shots every game that just have no
chance of going in and that are forced attempts. And guess what he has
said already, or his trainer said in an article that came out a few
weeks ago, that that's the plan for him to work on the next two
summers. His wiggle in the lane, getting to the to the rim,
you know, in a place where he can in a way that he can
get up better shots, and then actually hitting more of those shots. And
then the thirty like we didn't see any again like Threese off movement, no
threes off the dribble. No, but like you know, you saw some
side step there, you know where he's doing a little stuff Like it's there,
It's all there. He just needs to put it together. I'm so
excited to see what he is next year. And then just since this that
was our I think our last question. I just want to say, because
we haven't mentioned his name, Obi Toppin, I can't other than r J.
He's the guy I'm most excited about see you next year. He's another
guy I think could take a big leap between between now and next season.
Yeah, I echo everything John said. I just wanted to the hilarity of
the ship John had to go through once he dropped that mailbackpot and in the
moment I remember editing it being like, either he's really right and this is
depressing, or this is gonna come back to bite him. And then later
in the year when he was asked to re rank them, he was like,
I never said he was that low. And I intentionally put into the
clip that we posted on social like recorded on January this John had to live
it down. R J. Barrett has done nothing but improved since he got
into the NBA, and a lot of his rookie season struggles I contribute to
or attribute to the fact that David Fitzdale was here, that there was seven
power forwards on the team that needed the ball and he was just has to
stay in the corner. And this year he showed that when he has the
ball in his hands and when he stays in the corner, he can be
productive. And I, as John mentioned, I'm excited to see what that
next level of improvement looks like next season. The sidestep a few side step
threes that he hit made me excited. I'm more when you look at the
cadence of his game with the Bomba's hands, I think there's a chance he
becomes a really, really good playmaker for others if you give him the opportunity
to do it. This was great, guys. I know you have to
get out of here, so folks follow them on Twitter if you're not already.
Andrew Claudio can be at Andrew J. Claudio underscore spelled exactly as it
sounds. Check out John at j C Macri NBA. That's at j C
m A c ri i NBA. And also follow Nick's Film School on Twitter,
which is spelled exactly as it doesn't sound at Nick film s k o
o L. Thank you guys so much again for coming on the podcast.
Rest assured I will be bothering you again in the future. Absolutely, Dan,
thank you. Can't wait. Dan. I appreciate you. I was