It's just like the old radio show with the additibility to swear a lot from
the mac of All Trade studio in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler Dodge jeep
Ram. It's bilified but Bill Moran podcast, Well, hello and welcome.
Thanks for getting your pot on, Thanks for telling a friend. That's how
we spread the word about the pirate ship. Got a couple of people coming
on tonight. One is um, a guy who writes about AI and he
has a podcast called I on AI. Is he the guy behind the chat
gpt where if you ask him a question, he's one. So he interviewed
the guy who kind of came up with chat gept. But I mean,
I think this guy is the name as Craig S. Smith. Craig was
a executive with the New York Times and then he wrote for a Wall Street
Journal for a while. He was really worked on the religious movement Fallon Gong
in China. He kind of wrote a lot about that and did that sort
of thing. I didn't know Jimmy Fallon already had his own religion. Yeah,
he's got a show and he's really making it work. This is uh,
it's crazy to me because you start looking and you go, do you
fear AI? Do you embrace AI? And I was having a conversation with
Mac from Mac of All Trades, and he was telling me, you know,
somebody he knows works in the finance world and just spent a tremendous amount
of money to buy a book. And the book is when somebody retires,
it's all the things they tracked over the years, right, and so people
will sell this book and when they retire in the financial industry for millions of
dollars. Oh wow, like yeah, one point five two million dollars for
the book. And then you have time to pay off the book back to
that person, so it's more added income. They just retired. They sold
this and you've got let's say five years to pay it off. So that
means how much you're paying them on You do the math in that, so
that's pretty good and they and they can sell it for that much because somebody's
getting the return on that one point five million dollars investment in this book.
Well, AI, they've done it. Now can look at data so quickly
over years that where there have been down years, AI can figure out things
by looking over all the data for stock investors for years and years and years
and take down years and make their increases. Make those years you have a
thirty percent increase. So the question becomes, do I need a stockbroker?
And I have a belief in this, And I've said this from the beginning.
With AI, You've got to embrace it. You have to embrace AI
because I think that even if you're we still want that human element. We
don't want to be talking to a screen. We don't want to be looking
at just an app. There's something about a conversation and having somebody. So
if you work in an industry, can AI help you not take over?
Can you stay out ahead of it? Another field is doctors. I mean,
look, they did a whole thing where it was AI versus doctor in
diagnosing stuff and AI never got it wrong. Wow. Okay, but do
you want to read you know you have cancer? You know what I'm saying,
You will lose whatever you have six weeks on a center house and order,
right, do you want that or do you want to have somebody who
can kind of That's exactly what's gonna time to buy life insurance. If you
have six weeks to live, we can fight you a great rate. I
don't know what what. I don't know what this story is there, but
we will will find out with Craigs Smith and about twenty minutes or so,
we have these Thursday, all my team right, just review crap we already
know. And uh, the boss today goes, anybody ever used that chat
to what is a GPS chat? It's like your age chat GPS? Uh
for work? Here? I go, yeah, I do. No,
I mean like work, not like music or sports. I go, well,
I don't need to use it for music or sports, but I do
ask questions. But yeah, I do use it for work. Yeah.
It's like using Google, but it's a lot easier because they just spit out
the answers right there, Hey Google, or I'm sorry, hey Chat GPS
find me the tech competitors to this company right here? Done. Yeah,
and by the way, my phone just did when I said hey Google,
It just went like answering a question. That funny? Yeah? Is that
funny? It's scary? Yeah, it is kind of scary today, Danny.
We did get the word on the Titanic bound submer submersible. It went
missing on Sunday with five people on board, and apparently there was a catastrophic
implosion. Here is um the rear Admiral explaining exactly what happened. To the
name is John Mauger. This morning, an ROV or remote operated vehicle from
the vessel Horizon Arctic, discovered the tail cone of the titans submersible approximately sixteen
hundred feet from the bow of the Titanic on the seafloor. The ROV subsequently
found additional debris. In consultation with experts from within the Unified Command, the
debris is consistent with the catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber. Upon this determination,
we immediately notified the families. So I heard and went and looked this
up. Some people think they were mummified immediately, like because of the cold
water and the implosion, like their bodies were just mummified. I don't know
if they even knew what had happened. But it was Hamish Harding who we've
talked about, and Hamish harding stepson was hitting on a the only fans chick
on Twitter that Stepdad was visiting Louis Flowers Police said, uh, cash to
only fans on my behalf Sesadah Dalwood and his son Sluman on there. Uh
And then another guy Paul Henry uh Nargolette. I think he was a French
explorer and then stocked and rushed the s CEO of of Ocean Gate. So
I see, I'm watching MSNBT. I was where I ran home after the
gym, and I'm so I put it on and I see an anchor saying,
you have to wonder, why would anyone want to do this? And
they went, no, you don't. That's the dumbest fucking thing you could
say, in my opinion. And I'll tell you why, because the world
has only advanced to where we are because the guys who had balls, right,
that's it, the guys who had balls. I don't know what you're
gonna learn from the oceans, but all the experts we talked to on this
podcast said, there's so much that we need to know about the oceans and
learn from the oceans. There's as much in the oceans they can discover as
the as the as the universe. Yeah, so I go, and you've
got people going up to space. Eventually, something's gonna happen. We had
the space challenger problem years ago. Uh, it's a miracle. I mean,
look, Shannon just walked in. I did you fly here, okay,
you drove here, okay, but normally no, I got that.
Don't don't don't worry about that. You're you're fine. But I mean,
just the flight, right, you wouldn't have that without the Ripe Brothers.
And they went down one time. I mean, Orville lived to be I
think seventy seven, but he got badly banged up in an accident and his
passenger died. And I think at the time when it was like the leading
mind in the army over some kind of technology they were doing. And once
that guy died, everything was fun. The World War One started. We're
fine if we just would have kept them alive. But I go, come
on, man, I I love taking risks. I love doing things.
I mean, granted calculated risks as he get older, but I mean when
I was younger, I'd do anything. I would have gone down in that
thing. And everybody now going, oh, yeah, we knew that there
were all these flaws in the design. Did you bullshit? Either you did,
and he didn't fucking care because you went anyway, and you and you
live to tell about, right, and you got to see something that many
people will never get to see, right, right, never get to see
so they're living on the edge. They knew the risk is. It's sad,
it's sad, it's tragic. I'm sorry that it happened. But at
the same time, I go, stop this bullshit. Now there's gonna be
all kinds of regulation on these things. Yeah, don't let a crisis go
to waste. We gotta step in and fix this. By the way,
the important question did they find Billy Zane's career down there? I don't know
because nobody's seen him. Didn't he die? No, he's still alive,
is yeah, I don't know, but who No? Yeah, he's like,
yeah, those people, I mean, there's risks every day. Every
time you get in a car, you're taking her risk. Oh yeah,
So I always go kind of here's still the ballsy ones. Man. Isn't
that what the CEO said? He goes, Okay, if you don't want
to get hurt, stay in bed all day. Yeah, that's that you
won't get because you could get hurt doing anything. Now, I mean there's
degrees, obviously, obviously, but I mean I understand what were he was
coming out. I were exploring something I was going to ask on Facebook,
and I thought, boy, the timing of this would just be too bad.
But well the question, however, let's never stopped us before, Billy
from exploring people's It did stop me today, it did stop Yeah, it
did stop me today. But it would be like, finish this sentence.
Never, I will never go on I didn't put it on Facebook, but
I will never go in or on blank? What would you never go in
or on? Um? I would never go on a rocket or like go
into space. No desire. No, In fact, part of me doesn't
even want to leave the country. No, I have everything I need right
here in America, this great land. Shannon Evans has come in. She's
the creator and owner of Nailed at d I Y Studios, and she is,
by the way, one of the fifty most dynamic women in the Charlotte
region. Around here Charlotte, not Charlotte. Right now, you'll save a
lot, get right on top of it. You can jump right into the
mike. Yeah, you could pull you could pull a torch. You it's
bubble. Yeah, you can move that to wherever you need to go.
But uh, yeah, is there anything that you wouldn't go in or on?
I would not go in a submarine. You would go and thought of
being in something that small and not having a way out. Yeah, like
if the water it just right, Even if you're not klaustrophobic, you will
be thinking about that. I did, uh entombed in concrete when I was
in radio. So it was like forty eight hours and it looked like a
real coffin. They toumue concrete. There's like one air hole coming out you.
I had internet, This would have been the early two thousands. I
had a peanut bag and then when I got out, I think the bo
must have been horrible laying in there. Yeah, how'd you number two?
Yeah? I didn't have to for two days. I made sure I was
didn't meet pretty clear or clean going in and not pretty clean but perfect.
This was like really tight quarters that these guys were in, right, But
I'm trying to think is there anything I wouldn't go in or on? And
everything looks so fucking cool to me, But I don't know if I would
do one of those. Do you ever see these flight suits where guys jump
off buildings and the entire suit kind of blows up. Yeah, they looked
like flying squirrels. It's exactly what they look like. And I go,
I don't know. Now, a kid I grew up with was doing some
bass jumping like that and he died. So I don't I don't know they
to thread the needle. I don't know what. I don't know what he
did, but I'm like that. I mean, I look at those things,
especially over the finger lakes because there's no power lines or anything. I
keep telling you, man that that powered powerachute, it's basically a go cart
with a parachute, looks so fucking cool to me. I want to go
do it. I mean, what's the worst that could happen? I I
think not much, because you got a parachute exactly if the parachute doesn't Okay.
So I know a guy I hate saying this, but I know a
guy in the cover band community whose brother died and he was an enthusiast and
jumping out of planes and doing that stuff like parachuting, right yeah. And
our other buddy, who was also part of that same clique of people,
is a pilot, and he goes, there's only two things that fall out
of the sky bird shit and assholes. In other words, like, don't
there's no reason to do stuff like that unless you're in the armed forces.
Jumping out of the airplane. Yeah, now that's something I don't think I
would do. I don't think I would jump out of an airplane. I
don't think I wouldn't do that either. You know, I think I have
a list I've never would is really afraid of heights. But nowadays, like
I've even watched something online. I watched this lady sit on a cliff like
like a rock pose for a picture, and all you saw was like sky
and mountains and all this stuff, and you just knew it was straight down.
And she keeps going to the edge, and I go, Na,
that's not that, that's not so. She had an Instagram boyfriend taking the
things reality. You know what else I wouldn't do? Go ahead, No,
I was the one thing I wouldn't go. And I thought of carnival
rides, like my father was against those huge like there's no regulation they there.
They're put together by these Southern carnies up and they take apart talking about,
oh you're not Southern. Don't even pretend your che unless your last name
is Earnhart. Okay, we know please. I have friends who lived out
there. It's all like the repopulated but put together well, terrible. It's
pins. I remember there was one. I think there was a carnival at
a Catholic church and a kid got killed. That's usually been off right there,
Yes, yeah, it's terrible. Flies off into another neighborhood. Now,
there was like there was a ride I didn't want to do. Uh
were they sling shot you up into the air and lets you go? And
I remember walking in. At the time, I was married with my wife
and three kids, and my oldest kid wanted to do it, and I
go, I don't want to do that. And so next thing I know,
I see my wife in line with him. I go, already,
fuck this, and so I did it. But I have a weird thing
where I can literally just fucking shut down, like I can make my heart
rate go really low. So I just went into like a meditative state,
and he's flipping out and I we just went up and then you're facing the
earth. You're looking at the earth coming at you as you go back down.
And when I was done, I was like, that's actually pretty cool.
But right, yeah, yeah, my brother in law is a doctor
and his oldest son, my nephew, is autistic. Yeah, and he's
twenty three. But he loves roller coasters. My brother in law hates roller
coasters. Yeah, there's only one person who can go on with him.
Yeah, so he's got to sit there. It's just like shut out reality.
Well, like the kid goes nuts on the roller. You can actually
you can do that. I mean, I mean that's where I think I
even was able to do the tuned in concrete and everything. You can just
kind of I don't know what it is. It's a different ability where you
can just shut it down. I feel like a Navy seal Bill. We
will get to know Shannon Evans, creator and owner of Now That d i
Y Studios and one of the fifty most Dynamic Women in Art Charlotte Evans about
every time you do that. By the way, that's one thing I would
never do is my is it myself. I would never do any housework myself
because I would destroy some I have a theory and yeah I know, but
I won't break something. My wife won't even every time I put the I
do the dishes right because she doesn't like the probably do them wrong. Yeah,
yeah exactly, Yeah, yeah, she has to go and rearrange the
dishes in the dishwasher. But well, why don't you do efficiency? I
guess we're gonna talk to Craig Smith. He is uh an AI expert.
I'll say. He has a bi weekly podcast called I on Ai And where
is AI taking us? And what jobs will be lost? Do we need
to fear it? Is it something we should embrace. I'm more on the
embrace it side. But we will talk to Craig Smith. We will do
that next. Kylestone on Maine and Webster one a great place. You know
in Danny Bresnihan, you don't that it's a great American. He is a
great American. It's been doing a lot of stuff with his family lately.
But eighteen hundreds Cobblestone Church they renovated it. It looks fantastic. It really
is awesome. I know it's your jam and you should check it out.
It's right on Main Street in Webster. The food is great. He's good
friends with our friend Damian Mulconnery. I think mul connery has referred to it
as the Mulconners of the East, or maybe the one the more East of
the More East or more the Far East. But it is basically like an
Irish pub. The food is steak, tacos. Uh they've got some of
the best. Yeah, they got the best. Uh. Well, they
have some great Irish whiskies there. Of course they have Guinness on tam some
of my favorite. But they have the best nachos Danny and I have ever
had. Oh yeah, I mean if you're talking bar food, fantastic.
If you want a real sit down dinner, fantastic live music. And the
great thing is because it's Cobblestone and it's two buildings put together. If you
sit in the back, you can hardly hear the music, which is nice
if you're going for a quiet dinner. They have a private party room and
with its own entrance if you need to get in to do a surprise or
something. Check them out online. It is Cobblestone on main dot com and
you can always give him a call at five eight five six two sixty four
fifty or find them in person one on nine West Main Street in the village
of Webster. The Red Wings are home. This weekend. Friday is Marvel
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leagues with a tea shirt giveaway and fireworks. Sunday features a tea shirt giveaway
and kids can run the basics or tickets visit Red Wings Baseball dot com.
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and don't forget. They are hosting maybe the best nine of summer,
not even maybe definitely the best nine of summer. Flower City Brewers Facet It's
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best nine of Summer. It's Friday, August eighteenth. Friday is a Bad
Friday and is hosted by Robock Brewing Company, Rochester's original craft brewery. Will
we be living in a ghost town when AI takes over? I love when
I see those types of things. Well, if AI is so smart,
why don't they just like up and go to Mars? I don't know and
leave this. Craig Smith is a journalist. He's a former executive for The
New York Times until January two thousand, he wrote for The Wall Street Journal,
most notably covering the rise of the religious movement Fallongong in China. And
he was previously the Times Managing Director for China, where he built and operated
the company's first foreign language platforms. And now he has a bi weekly podcast
called ion Ai and in each episode he talks to people really making a difference
in artificial intelligence, from the creators of Chat, GPT and a bunch of
others, And Craig is on the line right now Craig. Before we get
into any of that, how many languages do you speak? Yeah, I'm
getting pretty old. So my language of build the climbing. But I speak
Mandarin and French and English of course. Okay, so because Mandarin I heard
is even harder than English to learn, and English is so tough because of
the slime. Well except they you know, in Chinese it's at least three
thousand year old culture they claimed five thousand. But it's a language full of
idioms, so it's actually pretty easy to learn to speak basic Chinese if you
have a somewhat music leer. But the idioms is a lifetime of study.
Yeah, my sister was over there. She taught English in China and she's
a linguist, so she has a doctor in linguistics. I really don't even
know what that exactly exactly what, but anyway, so let I want to
talk. I've been excited about Ai and I. Every time I feel like
I turn around, I hear more and more warnings about all the bad things
with AI. Yeah, and to me and correct me if I'm wrong.
I feel like it's something you're not going to put that genie back in the
bottle. Number one and so why not embrace it? You know, I
was talking to someone earlier today and he said, they I didn't see this.
This is somebody telling me, so maybe I'm hoping it's correct information.
But he said they had artificial intelligence versus a doctor in making diagnosis, and
the doctor got it wrong sometimes and AI never did. And I said,
okay, but why wouldn't you, then, as a doctor, want to
embrace that and help it make you a better doctor? Because I do think
bedside manner is something that's always going to be wanted. Who wants to read,
you know, whatever gets spit out from AI in just a cold manner
when it's something that could that affects your life. You have herpies what you
know, I'm right, But I mean where you want somebody with some kind
of bedside matter? And to me, I go, well, why aren't
we sort of wrapping our arms around this at least in certain industries to just
make us better? Yeah, certainly. I mean the problem with on the
medical applications is you have to have access to m patient information and privacy laws
are very strong. But but given but that's coming, I mean, people
will wave gladly their their rights. I think a lot of people for the
benefit of AI, but also some of those. I mean, it's depends,
you know, some models are not as accurate as others. That depends
on whether you know not to get into the text you haven't tied to what's
called a vector database of trusted and formation, or whether you're just going with
a large language model like E four that has a you know, the it
hallucinates they call it. It comes up to answers that are true. So
it depends, you know. But but eventually those in those kinks are worked
out in some systems. But it's really a matter of trust. People have
to trust. I mean, if you exactly as you're saying, I think
all doctors will be using AI as an assistant, as sort of a physician
to a system. But you want that last such to be human, and
that's in many many applications. You know, you want a human in the
loot they call it, rather than just turning it over to an AI,
which could make a mistake even if it's rare, because I even see that.
I think there's another field that people worry about is finance, right,
so they can look at so much data with chat, GPT or not Chat
GPT excuse me, ye, over so many years, and they're saying they
can take down years in the past and have increased somebody's profits by thirty per
ten because they can look at so much data so quickly. And I thought,
yeah, But at the same time, wouldn't you want somebody to explain
that to you if I don't fully understand enough? And are you going to
put your trust necessarily for lack of a better term, in a computer.
I don't know. I just think in those things, you know, these
are the ones that I'm seeing. I think the big fear Creig is that
people are going to lose jobs, right, And what do we do then?
Yeah, well, first of all, on the trading. Yeah,
the majority of trading on these changes is now computer trading in in you know,
milliseconds, and all of that is driven by computers. And the largest
or most one of the most success full hedge funds in the world, Renaissance
Technologies, has been doing this privately. The guys that started it came out
of IBM actually working on their translation algorithms and started Renaissance Technologies and uh,
you know, they've they've been doing it for years and they're all billionaires,
the guys that started that. But but so what was the question on the
risk or or well the risk in terms of, you know, people fearing
that there are certain industries that artificially on the jobs. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, and it will. I mean, just as maybe you've
heard these arguments as the industrial revolution wiped out a lot of jobs, the
AI revolutional wiped out a lot of jobs. If it'll, it'll, it'll,
I believe, I'm an optimist. I think that it'll it'll create a
lot of benefits. It's not jobs per se, but it'll there'll there'll be
enough wealth creation that people will be taken care of. I think that's a
long term concern. I think that it's going to take a while before it
starts taking out huge slabs of the workforce's you know, people will start using
it as we're just saying in conjunction with human operators, Well we're sort of
using it now. You know. My mother is seventy five years old.
Last week she had surgery on her neck and she I was calling to check
on her, and she was telling me how she was laying in bed and
she had left her phone downstairs and she didn't realize that she could make phone
calls through Amazon through her Alexa, and I go, there's artificial intelligence right
there, you know, I mean there are parts. I can't tell you
how many times I live by myself off I say, Hey Siri, what's
the weather? Hey Siri, what's this? I can't spell anything, I
say, Hey Siri, how do I say? I love it? You
know, it's it's it's a great tool. As for chat GPT, and
I hear this about, you know, well, what's going to happen with
education and kids and all that, I would find it hard to believe that
any teacher that's reading a paper at any level of education can't tell it's GPT
versus the kid. Agree. I agree? And on that point, on
the one hand, your kids have to learn how to use it exactly.
It's going to be alongside them for the rest of their lives. So I'm
not that concerned about kids depending on Chat GPT. I think that just as
Google change the way people hold knowledge, right, you know, it's it's
I remember Ret Megson, It's Henry Ford that said, I, you know,
I don't need to know everything. I need to know how to find
the guy that knows. So I'm not so. I think for education you'll
start seeing AI tutors, and I frankly use it myself. I talk to
chat GBT plus, I pay for the higher model and and I learn all
kinds of stuff. Just as I'm working, I have it opened in a
tab and something comes up I'm not too sure about. I ask, it
gives me an answer. I mean, I think it's fantastic, But I
do understand. I do understand the concerns about uh, you know, deluding
the public discourse with disinformation. That's certainly a concern. Yeah, I'm less,
I'm less and adherent to the extinction threat. I just think that's so
remote and there's plenty of time to work out what we're doing. That seems
like an existential crisis to me, of something that this isn't going to happen,
like you know what I mean, It's like it's all made up in
your head and it's never going to get that far. I wish you think
a little bit like it's in our heads. Yeah, yeah, you know,
I think I feel the same way. But on the other hand,
there are people and I've been talking to I'm going to talk to a guy
named Yoshua Benjia Tomorrow, who's one of the top two or three AI researchers
who are pushing this longer term extinction threat idea or at least, you know,
signing onto the open letters. And I just don't see it. And
it's just but you know, these guys are a hell of a lot smarter
than me and are much more deeply involved in the tech, and if they're
saying that, there must be something there. But I still think that we've
got plenty of time. I have to tell you, mentioned linguists. I
had a conversation with Noam Chomsky. He's going to be on the table for
a podcast that was a little post in a week or something, and he
said that it's like, from his point of view, the risk of an
asteroid hitting New Earth, Yeah, the risk exists. It's a real risk,
but it's extremely remote, not one that we should worry about right now.
Right and then the one land in Syracuse a few years ago, and
I'm dog with lake perfectly noise, but it is one of the I agree
with with that. I think that there's probably a pretty good way to look
at it, and look, you can't I mean, there are certain things
in life you can't control, so why burn calories trying to do it?
Is my thinking on that. But to your point, I took a quiz
but knowing you were coming on, and it was all these different images right,
and you had to tell was it ai or was it real? And
yeah, at a ten, I think I got six correct, So I
got sixty percent right, and there were a few that I couldn't tell.
But there is that. There is the chat GP or not chet. I
keep saying that I forgive me, But the artificial intelligence that can duplicate your
voice, there is, and there are people who are evil doers, so
to speak. And as you're saying, misinformation. But we've heard of times
like forever I have heard it feels like the last twenty five years or so
of a scam where hey, somebody calls up and says, it's your grandson
is in jail and Toronto. We're you know, we're in Rochester, New
York, not far away. It could be very reasonable that the kid would
be there. Can you send money? And so grandma does and then finds
out it's not true. Now they can make it sound like the kid,
you know what I mean. And that's the stuff that's I think is the
part that is very scary for people. And I like to think that sometimes
that's something that would be more of a fringe thing to happen with AI than
the main thing that happens with AI. And we pay attention to the frings
these days so much because they're so loud on everything. Yeah. Yeah,
But to that point about the fringe, the reason we pay attention to them
is social media and the Internet has made them pervasive in our lives. They're
in no longer fringe in terms of of our exposure to them and AI.
As you say, with the with the cloning of voices, you know,
Facebook just came out with a really refined version of that that they're not releasing
because they're afraid of abuses. So I think it's like phishing emails people.
It will there will be a lot of abuse, and society will gradually become
you know, jaded and seasoned and skeptical, and you know, there will
be other ways to verify whether something is real or not. But but that
is so the immediate danger is delution of of truth by untruth, and it
becomes very difficult for the public for us to know what's real and what's not
real. And once you lose that bead, then you really see you as
we saw in the last election. It's harder now than ever, I think,
because information comes at you so fast and then just try being you know,
let's say you're of the age they have children, and you're running around
and you're trying to who has the time to sit down and go what's right?
What's not? And so it's all coming at you. And that's where
we you know, the term fake news is is fantastic. It's all fake
news, Billy, there's no reality. I love that. I'll even go
back and I'll go back in time and I'll go, hey, they should
have said then it was fake news. And that's well. The Emancipation Proclamation
didn't get to Texas to late two sixty five. It was fake news until
the holiday out of it. So thank you, right, it's just crazy
what we're gonna say. So I don't know, sir, did you.
There's a story that Elon Musk and Larry Page, one of the founders of
Google, had a disagreement, and the disagreement was that Elon said, if
this power gets into the wrong hands, we're gonna have a problem, and
Larry Page told Elon you're a specist. He look, you can't with the
word specious. In other words, you're only in favor of life, You're
not in favor of artificial intelligence. And the two and a falling out.
Is that? Is that true story? That? Well, I don't know
if it was Page that said spent, but both of those stories come from
Elon Musk. And I'm not sure if the Page was the one that he
accused of being a specist in the words chauvinists where a species over technology.
But the story of his disagreement with Page, he told that two of all
people, Tucker Carlton him in that the interview he did with Tucker Carlson a
month or so ago. And yeah, he claimed that. And it's true.
He was the impetus behind open AI that now is sort of leading in
all these advancements. Oh yeah, yeah. And he formed open AI specifically
to be open so that these powerful technologies are not held in private by by
the legion of dooms. Right. I am a somewhat of a fan of
Elon Musk. I have too. Every time I get a little more where
I kind of like him a little bit more. Uh, yeah, I
did know that. I thought he gave like fifty million dollars to open AI
to kind of start them. And he'll he'll say, if if it wasn't
for me, they wouldn't exist. But I'll just ask you this on a
completely silly note. This is completely silly. Elon Musk is going to fight
Mark Zuckerver. Yeah, yeah, I supposedly is a real thing, and
and it's Dana White from the UFC, and he thinks he would be the
biggest fight in the world. And it doesn't make it right. It's it's
comical, is it not? But I said, but there's a piece of
the distraction. But you want to watch. Well, I like Elon,
but I'm afraid that he's a little flatty and he might get her special guest
referee will be Mike Tyson. Okay, guy, if he's a deal,
no punching below the belt, Yeah, it would be great to see.
I mean, Muscus is older, yes, yes, yes, but you
know, I'm sure Luckerberg has all kinds of personal trainers, but he doesn't
appear that imposing. He does not, but I think he does do judo.
I do think I did leave that he studies Judo. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, that would be that would be yeah. I agree.
It would be the biggest period review in the history of television, which
is ridiculous and very silly. I mean, while Biden selling out the country
to China. No, look at this, Craig. Beyond the I on
AI, what else are you working on? You? You're a very interesting
guy. I would think. Is there a book or something too? Actually,
I am working on a book about AI, okay, but been delayed
by by all the pandemic and stuff. And now anyway, I've got to
get back into China. But and I'm working on an app, a travel
app. And I still write for a lot of publications occasionally, still write
for The Times, So I'm busy. Yeah. I saw that you wrote
a couple things for Forbes too. Yeah, yeah, I write for Forbes
on a Yeah. Well, with with AI continuously changing, that you're writing
a book about AI in all seriousness, I mean, with Kindle and everything
else, could you write an updateable book that continues to be updated throughout AI
changes? Sure, that's right. You could. You could tie it to
GPT, to to the GPG browser plug in, so that as new information
comes in. I mean frankly, that's a good point change. Yeah,
that's right. I certaly use the money. Yeah, it's uh, it's
really there's I and you guys are younger. I want to see what happened.
You know, it's incredible. What you know again, you were talking
about the darkness, you were talking about some of the other applications. Uh,
the uh you know the quiz with the images. I mean, we're
only like less than ten years into the validation of deep learning was in two
thousand and twelve. Transformers, which are at the core of the of the
generative AI, the chat, TBT and all that stuff was only created in
two thousands of team. Imagine what it's going to be like ten years from
now. It's it's it's exciting. I find it exciting. I did do
and I think I've really fully became aware of AI where computers can gain knowledge.
Actually was two somebody else reminders them, but watch it on Jeopardy.
Watching on Jeopardy is one. And then lost. I don't remember. No,
I think I thought, I thought Watson, Yeah, I think he
did. And then the deep Blue Chess, where you know, I would
play against masters and it would remember and learn, and then it was just
crushing everybody. That's right. But frankly, those two systems are much simpler
and much less capable than CHAPTBT and GBq four. This generative a new these
large language models. They read virtually every book published in English, they read
virtually entire Internet. Uh, it's it's mind buggling. It's the amount of
information information they've observed. And even they got bored with toolstoy. Are we
gonna meet current or what the h Take me back to China for just one
moment, since you've spent so much time there and you talked about AI over
in China. You know, one of the big things to come out of
China that raises eyebrows of everybody, and I hear it in Congress is TikTok.
But the TikTok that we see it's not the TikTok that China sees.
Yeah, and it does feel like in some way they're almost beating us from
the inside out or the rest of the I don't I don't buy that at
all, Okay, because I have seen the you know, in the TikTok
equivalent in China, and whee chat has a shorts you know like YouTube as
shorts now and it's yeah, you you they show a little us ass cheek
frankly, but it's all the same titillation and stupid stuff and people gooping around
and see, I've heard that narrative, but I haven't seen any data to
support it. I see I like that as somebody who's the right who?
I have another question, like, so a lot of people listening to this
probably are wondering right now, including me, what jobs are AI proof?
Have you gotten that far into it? Like like what we know? Like
I know, dishwashing right right? Cooking? Sure, well you're cooking,
I mean McDonald's. Like it's going away from people. Yeah, but that's
the kind of ironic. In the Industrial Revolution took out blue college jobs,
this is going to take out sort of mid to higher level white collar jobs
or at least you know, ye compete for those jobs and anything. But
first of all, there's a lot of people confound robotics and a high that
you can combine the two, and that's the ambition. But robotics is far
behind AI in terms of miniaturization of motors. And you know, a robot
like the Atlas robot that Boston Dynamics has you've seen doing some assaults and stuff.
That's an extremely complicated machine that requires a tremendous amount of specialized maintenance.
It's it's it's not going to be walking around your house anytime soon. Yeah,
that's why I got hired from Terminator four because he was a complete divo
around the set. That's right. So any job that requires manual dexterity at
a guy in fixing my refrigerator. I mean, you know you're not going
to get AI to do anything that involves manipulating the physical world outside of a
factory. And so, and also any what you guys do, anything that
involves him creativity. That's you know, my son's an actor. I tell
him, if you're fine, the AI is never going to be Although there
will be a lot of you know, computer generated movies and things like that,
people still want the authenticity. I'm so glad you said that word,
Craig. Authenticity to me cannot be replaced. And if anything, be yourself,
be your authentic self. I think you're fine no matter what the job
is, because you're always selling yourself in some capacity. We may not like
to think that, but we are. And if you're being authentic you're going
to cut through, and I think you'll be fine. Have we seen your
son and anything he's done on the Blacklist, But most of his work has
been theater. Okay, yeah, unless you're in New York watching the off
Broadway theater and yeah, very good, that's cool. Yeah, that's that's
yea interesting. Well to me, this has been enlightening and actually makes me
feel a little bit better about uh Ai. After I saw something on CNN.
I've just flipping through and they're going, oh, you gotta be really
worried. It's gonna take over. And there's one guy said, I don't
think that it'll lead to extinction, but I think it could really hurt us.
And why are we saying this? Why? Why? Why don't do
that? Well because everything that they've like, well they say hell is the
road to hell is paved with good attentions, steroids. This is gonna be
a good thing. Wrong, you know, uh four oh one? K
is it gonna be a good thing? I don't know what. One thing
that this debate has done is is gotten the regulators active. You know,
not that not that they haven't been active, but you know, Schumer is
now pushing a raft of AI legislation Europe has finalized it's first raft of it's
a regulations, so and that's good leading in regulations. Yeah, well I
think regular relations are good too. Sometimes they worry about those who are pushing
for it don't really understand what this all is. But hopefully they just find
the right people. Craig, I find this fascinating, and you're the podcast
is really interesting. It's I I on AI comes up bi weekly on YouTube
or are also on other platforms. It's on all the platforms. YouTube has
video, but Apple, podcast, Spotify, everything. Yeah, I like
like an eyeball eye. Yeah, I on AI and it is uh.
I think it'll be enlightening to people and maybe make you feel a little bit
better. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, thank you sir. Okay,
thank you guys. Nice to meet you. Yeah, it goes Craig
Smith kind of. I mean, yeah, I will make a great vice
president. I'll tell you that. What is up with you? What I'm
just saying, Well, you know, but I've made a great president last
time too. I'm gonna be fair maybe maybe although that one actually you don't
want to I like facticity of that clown. Nobody got hurt. We survived.
Today, we are going to unify to talk about all right, she
suffered long enough, we will We'll talk to Shannon Evans. I feel bad
that you came in sight. I love it. Did that stuff is very
important in this stuff I do, like we're talking about in human connection.
You cannot well see That's what I'm saying, and you can't and exactly so
I'm not worried at all. Yeah, you can't do stuff on Pinterest.
No, No, we will get to know a little bit more about Shannon.
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Baby, we're all in same one with same time. We're all in the
same boat. We're all that same AI boat, Danny. At least we're
not in that boat. That's too soon. It wasn't a boat, it
was a submersible, bad bad ybersable. I didn't see somebody that the politically
correct term submersible. Yeah, I did see somebody put up all the submarine
and take a ride on the Titan two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to uh
hang out with the people who died on this the Titanic. Priceless. It's
like something something meme like that. I go way, that's really quick.
It's really so. Now the next to or submersible it's going to be a
Now we could see two crashes. Well, would you want to go out?
No? I would never want to do that either. I wouldn't want
to do it. Awful, it's awful, It is awful. But that
but that that kid, that step kid though that's going on only fans and
all this other stuff that is priceless. That was that was my favorite.
So this girl put down she had like her big old bodanca donc and just
a thong bikini. She's putting out there and she goes, I'd love how
would you like me to sit on you? And so the stepson of the
billionaire who died in this boat or in this submersible put up something to the
events of uh, when can it happen or something like that right away tomorrow
after though, but this is after Shannon. He put up please please pray
for my family. This is before they knew anything. But it was like
and a half hour later he's hitting on the uh the only fans girl.
I found out later it was just all a not yeah I I I looked
at him. My son, not my style. I gotta that's not my
style. Shannon is the creator and owner of Nailed, the d y I
Studios, and the host No I Gotta get this in the host of Ryobe
Tools one on one, which I would say, if you're a homeowner,
Ryobe's probably the best tools to get. And I'm not just saying that,
I am I dead serious. I think that there are other companies. We
all know the names of them, but I think they're more for guys who
know what they're doing, and not that Rio isn't for people who don't know.
But they're they're easier, they're more compact. I think they do a
great job or more. It's more approachable, Yes, more approachable. Yeah,
yeah, it's it's kind as that. How did you become the Rio
host of riob tools one or one of all of the things that I do
with would you Know, would and DIY. It was very organic. It
was a very organic push of Okay, we need someone to do these videos.
We want that person to be approachable and at people have to trust that
person that's telling them how to use those tools safety and properly. Right,
So there was just they the executives needed someone that they felt was approachable in
that. I mean, honestly, like in my world, there's a lot
of faces and most of them are not women. And that's fine. I
mean that's not a hit on men at all. Everyone can do this stuff.
But um, they didn't, you know, I think honestly they didn't
want to go and put a woman in there that they were like stereotype cool
like builder women or or on the clear other side of like supermodel. So
as much as that probably is not a confident compliment, I'm like, no,
that's cool. I'm in the middle, okay, Yeah, Like there's
nothing where it's like we did our research on the spectrum here too. You
made the cut. Um yeah, so it's it's interesting, it's a cool
world. Where do you see Ryobi? One? Oh one, it's Riobi.
Let's go then. Yeah, So why did I always think was Ryo
because the like rye bread ry or sounds like robe. I always I mean
I swart of got for years because I have us. Yeah, people comment
Riobi people will comment on the videos and be like, you're saying it wrong.
I'm like, oh, I'm not. Yeah, well if you are
right, so we just good. I'm glad you correct now important? Yeah,
it is important, Riobi, please tell me you said it wrong.
Until they told me, I did not, God only because I watched their
videos already and I followed them. Okay, it's like that episode of the
Office where they couldn't figure how to pronounced saber or is it saber or is
it saw bray? Could be both? I mean, who's really right?
Well, when you go to the pizza place, what is it? Sobreros
uh so? Riob? Yeah, I'm never gonna get that you're going to
I can do it over and over and over. But Rio, so,
what do you do on this show? The promise of the whole episodes that
they film are you need to maybe use your drill for the first time and
you know nothing like this is like right here? How do you really?
I know, I'm just playing along. No, I like it. Um
So they would be someone that's like, how do you use a drill?
Full of shit? I was gonna say, I might put you to the
time. Okay, So this confession confession, couldn't tell you you don't know
suppliers confession monkey rn. My ex wife got the tools and the divorce.
My wife, now, who's awesome, has this pink toolbox and everything,
and I'm like, honey, can't use your toolbox take care of something?
And then she let me show you how it's done. Okay, I mean
it's not It's it's like the world I'm in. It's so foreign to me
to think man or woman. Yes, like just where I am and in
the way that I grew up in that world and I didn't know it as
something I wasn't allowed to do or I couldn't do. So when you say
grow up in that world, yeah, I mean my parents are both,
you know, blue collar like they wed. My dad has owned and run
and operated his own plumbing and heating company in Wade County. Plumbing. I
just to his website last night. It's called Palm Palma Plumbing, ok yeah,
eating hvac um. And my mother was a crafter, like you know,
making floral arrangements and crafts, very crafty. Yeah. And so both
of my parents never said no. And I think that's interesting because I have
children too, and and I think that's where a lot of the creativity and
kids get lost because the parents try to guide that what they know or based
on what they can do. And I never was told it was a no.
Well I said a little more of an artistic mind. Yeah, to
all have it? Yeah, no, no, I think we all have
that. I'm saying like being that. Like, my dad grew up in
a tenement in Brooklyn, Okay, top floor. He had to walk all
the way up. The poor people lived up top back in the day before
elevators and stuffed. Seriously, if you look back in his from me the
people, Yeah, because he had a walk. So that's where he grew
up. He came here to Fisher. He eventually got a doctorate in philosophy.
He built the house that I grew up and never having had a power
tool, he built me one of the coolest rooms in at like they were
having a third kid. It was sort of a surprise. So there was
only three bedrooms. He built a lost love. He made a cork door
for the closet I had sly. It was the great. It was like
living in a fort. He did all that, changed windows, did roofs,
did every there was nothing he couldn't do, and I think that that
mindset of there's nothing you can't do right is one that Let me tell you
about my dad. Now, my dad was a still worker, hard working
man, but like he owned an apartment house. My mother's not. My
brother owns. It's like fourth generation. But what's funny is that they had
to go back and refix everything he tried to do himself. I mean everything,
the electrician, all that stuff. The other thing, too, is
we were growing up. You mentioned your parents were very open and letting you
do stuff. My father looked at me and goes, okay, no,
you're going to college. I'm not showing you anything. Your brother, though,
is a dumbass. I'm gonna show him how to do all this stuff.
And yeah, yeah, yeah right. So no I don't know how
to do anything, but my brother knows how to do all that cool stuff.
Well, when we were talking about AI too, I was thinking in
my head there's certain things that people crave authenticity of, and that is like
furniture for instance. So yeah, sure, you can go get a table
built at Ikea, or you can I don't know, buy a wall piece
for Ikea, but people love the look knowing it was handmade, and I
don't think there's anywhere in history where you can say that went away. No.
I agree with you there, like it's never like replaceable. No,
there's just no way. Do you make furniture? I do? You do?
I do? I love that it's you. That's a big deal.
I know somebody who let anyone out of business like Ikia. But yeah,
the idea that if there's something I want it and I see it in my
mind, there's no other way for me to get that, you know,
I don't. I don't see everything as like four table like and straight.
You know. So if I think of a table, I'm not thinking like
what you probably would think of a table. I'm like, oh, let's
make it two layers. What what do you have formal training in this sort
of bye bye that? I mean? Did you go to design school or
not? I went to school for broadcasting. You did? Yeah? And
I always had this knack. I remember when I was really young. My
mom would say I would say, Mom, I want to rearrange my room.
And this happened like monthly, and I would be like, I want
to rearrange my room and redo it. I need a new theme and my
mom never said no. Yeah, she was like, go ahead, go
ahead, what do you want it to look like? So in my mind
I always had again this outlet where I was like, I can make things
look the way I want them to look, and I can do it myself.
So you all your parents a big thing. I know, they're literally
not doing anything. I was a last key child. They just let you
know what I'm saying, you must have such great vision and spatial awareness that
sounds ridiculous. I go into rooms and I think, and I don't mean
it in a bad way, but every house I go in, I'm like,
what could I do? She walked in here, she started telling us
what to do with the table. In my mind, I'm like, oh,
but it's it's it's almost like it's always in the way though, Like
imagine yeah, right, I mean imagine just like always having that in your
mind. And now even just the advances and tools like there are power tools
that will like do stuff that's like leveled up, like Riobi makes this router,
and I remember like how scared I was to use it, and I
was like, you know what go for what is the worst that could happen?
Well, we know the worst that could happen is not a good thing
and probably take your finger off, right, But I did it, and
I remember how great that looked, and I was like, Okay, here's
the deal. I can either do it and fail, I find but I
learned something and I'll try again, or I could never do it and pay
someone to do it right and never even try. I always know I had
an old house. Uh, and I wouldn't. I wasn't great at doing
stuff, but I liked doing stuff and work with my hands only because you
know, I was doing radio. And at the end of the day,
I don't know, right, I have no idea. There's nothing tangible for
me to walk away from. But if I replaced the door, I can
go. I did that, right, if I if I fixed a wall,
I did that. Somebody put you know, somebody put the other boy's
head through the drywall. Ye, right, I did that. Toyota did
a commercial about that because a lot of people are Toyotas are An American cars.
So they show this father and son pulling up in a Toyota Tundra,
and they show another father and son sitting on the porch of a house and
the guys who pull up on the tundra. Goot. So then you see
that house, I built that house, and the guys on the porch go,
hey, son, you see that truck. I built that truck.
Yeah, you know. And that's something that you could always, you know,
look at and say, I did that. Yeah, there is that
that I did that. You give a lot of tips on your on your
own page, and I picked one up that I'd had no idea about.
Me. I love this and I think most people, I don't know how
many people know about it. The paint tip that it's too which, the
paint tip on getting people who return paint you can buy cheaper. That was
all my mom. I mean, we didn't I wouldn't say we had like
extensive money of just like, oh, buy whatever you want. And I
don't think really people, that's a whole different world. But anyway, so
we would go to the paint store and that was the whole thing. You
can't you had to look for something that was more cost effective, right,
but it would do the same job. Okay. So and that is a
really big creative part two of me is that if there was a pink there,
then I had to figure out what to do with the pink as opposed
to going in and being like I want to go buy blue, right,
So it actually opens up like a pretty cool world. But yeah, I
mean, so people return paints and they can't sell. I could say it
was mixed, it was the right tint that they wanted or whatever. So
now it's back, but it's on an I just asked them. But there's
always a shelf behind the paint people like in the corner yea, like the
McDonald's Hinden menu. Yeah, it's so great because it's it's not just like
paint, it's deck stain yea. And it maybe like an expensive paint five
dollars for galan when it's normally thirty five. Yeah, and it's funny when
so when we the business I started nailed it. We have colors of paint
that we offer people and that's a big part of it, like people being
able to pick their paint. And there was a recycling center that people would
bring paint too, because you can't technically throw it out. It's got to
be dispersed of the right way. And we would go there and get the
paint that people were throwing away and buy those five you know, those big
gallon, five gallon drums and we would dump everything in and stir until we
got a cool color because there would only be like a half a can of
each thing or whatever. Just jump it all together until you got this cool
shade of color. And we ended up making the color that all of our
studios across the country use. So from doing hang on a second and that
crazy Wait a second. Yeah, so Nailed at DY Studios. Yeah,
are all over the country franchised. Yea, we have tent twenty one locations
across the country. Okay, so you're using the pronoun we Yeah, so
you started it. I found it it. Yeah, you founded it.
So that whole thing that I'm seeing. You're not a franchise owner, you're
the company owner. It's it's ship croc. Oh. Here's the coolest part
about this though, this share part of that story. You could spend fifty
five dollars on paint, not matter. Success is not just money, Yes,
what success? You know what that is? That's freedom? Yeah,
I look at money as freedom. Yeah, that's what three o'clock on a
Tuesday. Well, no, but it's freedom to do whatever you want to
do without any real restrictions behind you. If this is wanting fantastic Because if
I looked up the d I y, I didn't know that you were the
founder. I thought before it was even a thing. So you want to
know what an asshole I am? In my head? I went in my
head, I went, oh, so she's she's not founder that, she's
she's got a franchise. She's got the Charlotte franchise. No, I was
fucking wrong. I love being wrong. But I will say even if I
was just what I knew kind of but I but I will say, like,
even if I just was a franchise own or that is just as I
mean, I'm they're doing just well, Yeah, they got to hustle to
make it work. I'm not denying that, for sure, I'm not denying
that. But but to come up with the concept that somebody says, hey,
man, I can make that work in my city or my town I
want in I mean that whole what a fantastic idea it was done. Where
did the business side of this come from? I suck at business, and
oddly enough, I sucked at art class in high school. So really going
like, if you look at this on paper, I am like totally not
supposed to be here. That's usually how it goes, right, Like,
Yeah, my art teacher was always like, you don't know what you're doing.
I'm like, hold my beer. She wasn't fair for that's why we
should call her. Should you have you gone and sent her any No,
you know we do. We got to go take a crap on her law.
Get that one from Hill. She's not even alive. With all due
respect, she was pretty old when I was there. Well, the old
ones never die die. Listen. Maybe if she told me I was great,
I would't have found what I have so right, right? But right?
Was that a motivating factory? I think? For real? I mean
I only because you knew you completely honest. I think a lot of my
creativity, um like, where I had that outlet to do those things?
Yeah, I was not popular, I was overweight. I was I just
was very lonely, you know. I didn't have like this group of people
always being like over Wait were you like one no? Like two hundred two
hundred? Really? Yeah, I'll show you a picture when we're on.
And that's not my story. Don't don't judge that. Um but no,
but point is I had Yeah, because I need some help losing her fridge.
She painted it blue and just kept out of it. I ate would
for she went to McDonald's up here. They had to call Wendy's for back
up, so, you know, like when you're a and I laughed so
hard in front of I got so I got yelled at a little bit,
but it was fun. Who who's yelling? There was was back on the
radio and there was a client. She came in. She was talking about
how much weight she lost. I lost all this weight, baba, and
and somebody in who I did the show with. It was just fawning,
right, being so nice and talking all this stuff. I can't believe that.
I can't believe, like you, it's hard to believe that she weighed
two hundred pounds all right, yeah yeah, okay, so all right,
one eighty either way, but all that stuff. And she's going and he's
going on and on and on. She goes, oh my god, well
my vice was McDonald's, blah blah, and I go, yeah, you
know what. She went to McDonald so often they had to called Wendy's for
backups, and ever, well, no, she laughed. Silence from the
other guy. I'm doing the radio show with because she was a client.
He's like, there goes that deal. I knew it would be fine.
Yeah exactly. Some people just don't know they're up. Yeah right, please.
You can make all the fat jokes you want, go at, yeah,
but I find it hurts. I did this with my arms. I
was you know, yeah, all right, you were lonely, and you
think of that. I mean, I'll tell you I have a theory.
Okay, you're ready for ye, because I don't want that to be missing.
No, no, no, no no, I think that what you're
saying is it just gave you time, since there was nobody around, no
distractions, you immerse yourself in art, and look what it's paid off.
Yeah, right, okay. I always think like the great guitarist that we
had, it was some nerd who sat up in his room and played over
and over and over and that is gone. Yeah, and it's gonna go
away. And the reason it's going to go away is this right here.
Yeah. They always have someone there that's right. Yeah, and porn is
right at your fingertips. Yeah, I agree. I'most well, never will
never have. Yeah, A great guitarist agains over Yeah, and you know
their and their minds turn off in that moment, right, Like I don't
have a thought and I don't even the world could be I don't even care.
My mind is so on what I'm working on. Yeah, And I
think I think that was kind of also like a piece of like what a
what a great thing that I had the ability to just tune out the world
that I didn't like anyway. Yeah, I mean really like it was kind
of like where where is my thing? What is my thing? When I'm
younger? And yeah, you know we all went through that of well where
did the big personality come from? And stuff? Then probably because I had
people, you know, I had to be. That was the way I
made up for people to like me too, right, Like it's so funny.
I talk to people about this all the time, and I'm like,
you know, the funny people or the people that have a lot of you
know whatever, it's usually someone that had to make up for something else because
people don't give them the chance. Like people didn't talk to me for the
most part, right, you know, it's always certainly not all right.
Let me ask you this, Yeah, you go back. Have you gone
to any reunions? Yes, we had one net on mccullinaries, Like five
years ago, do you ever see like super awkward one of the hot chicks?
Yeah, yeah, she's doing the MLN marketing now not just idn't it
was? It was so, but what do you see the hot chick?
Yeah? And like there's a shelf life on the hot chick. You know,
when you're fourteen to eighteen and everybody's giving you everything, let me go,
like let's go fourteen to thirty five, fourteen to forty, I don't
care. And then all of a sudden it starts to go down the hill
and now you're not getting the as as much intention as you did, and
it goes shitty, I mean, and that's where you get the Tawny Contains,
right. Tawny Contain was strikingly beautiful, and then before she died and
she turned into the catwoman, but all the fucking shit she did to her
face to try to capture that pat just let it go, baby. The
hot tears are over people like you for you. You know what though,
The best part that comes out of that, and you'll you'll probably because you
keep saying that you're overright, which you're not. But anyway, they the
best part about it yet told me I'm overweighted. That's never wrong. Told
you they are, Wait, they're wrong a little bit. They are all
ticket that. Later it made me like, really have empathy that I don't
think I would have learned, or I love people in a Yeah. And
because I love people so deeply, I was able to create a business that
really surrounds the idea that I'm making people feel better. So if I like
it's crazy, yeah, well you do really well. You realize that like
the coolest people, the people who've changed our lives, we're all nerves.
They were all geeks. They all have stories that even some traumatic story.
Yeah, but that's the point, like, like there's people you wouldn't hang
out with necessarily, Like Jerry Seinfeld is a great example of Yeah, you
know, I feel like he's weird. He's weird. Yes, Yeah.
We had a We had a teacher in Fairport, mister Hargrave, I think
his name was, You might know him. He would always tell people it's
not weird, it's different. It's not it's different. He would say that
every single day to us. And I remember always being like that is so
cool. Yes, And I always still to this day, I'm like it's
not weird, it's just different. Words are so powerful. Yeah, like
if if you change it. Because I was talking to somebody today and they
go discipline and I said, you know, that's a word that I think
most people hear that and they make a face like discipline, right, And
he goes, well, what would you say? And I would say instead
of saying I have to go to the gym, I need the discipline to
eat, well, I get to I get to I get to go to
the gym today, I get to get to you know what I'm saying.
Oh yeah, but it changes your mindset and you start going to fuck.
Yeah, man, I can do this. I know. I have my
phone set up with affirmation boxes, so like all my shopping apps, the
box says, um, I value money or I am lucky to shop or
like you know, like I change things. It's so that's exactly the point
is, Like, it's so crazy how people don't realize what they're surrounding themselves
with and hearing and saying yes, and what you're saying out like it's coming.
Yeah, you got to be mindful of those words. Well, yeah,
I'm a big I'm a big yeah, and I do a lot of
weird shit, different different ship. Yeah. Actually I don't know if I
should tell this story in front of Why Shannon or not. Well, now
you have to, okay, because there's there's a lot of things. There's
more things I want to talk to you about. Yeah, I want to
talk about kind of what happens at a one of these nailed to TIY Studios
because I did see some pictures of things and it looks like you could have
things everything from a kid's birthday party all right, where you're making crafts to
uh, did you do like couples things, date not kin society come back?
Yeah, we do a swingers club, we do everything. Great,
what a great concept. And then are there other things you partner with?
I'd like to if you don't mind, can we also talk about your other
half? Yeah? Of course? Okay, Yeah, But there was something
that came up on the show yesterday and then I had a moment today.
Oh, oh, Danny, did I have a fucking moment today? Oh?
Did I have a moment today? Started my day moments with Morna.
Oh it was bad. We'll get to it. Brought to you by Myers
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I got a woman. She's wildness run. She likes to lay naked and
because the pomp. This is one song sis a prison sets it on.
It's called Drunken Poet Stream till Wild. This is like exactly the kind of
shit I love when I heard of the other bag. He's Carlos club a
cigarette's papers and down and loves where She laughs one minute about to shape back,
says she be the sinner honey out being set on a stream. I
only gave me some mist she breads me. But I love that song.
I heard it like just the other day and I haven't stopped listening. I
mused to listen to repeat fifty times. Country music is so much humor to
it. See, and I don't even think of it as country. To
me, that's like Americana blue grass. Yeah, I guess, I mean,
I just I just love that. To me, it's more like the
singer songwriter or so in love. Wait, that's you pure, that's your
senior pictures. Oh wow, this was not supposed to go this direction.
I thought you were like fourteen in that picture. That that's your senior picture.
Wow. Okay, man, congratulations graduating man. All right, you
ready, I'm gonna give you one. That's very embarrassing story, very embarrassing.
We have been talking This is bad because we have been talking about we
got word that in Hilton. Sobody was walking their dog and yep, and
they let them ship and then lady came back and she ship right, Okay,
shit walker. So then I said, I think people defecating or going
to the bathroom outside. He's becoming a bigger and bigger deal. And I
said, I see more and more news stories about it. And yesterday I
pulled something from around the country and there was a sheriff who sat down and
said, if you know this woman, she had climbed through onto somebody's property
and squatted in the bushes, And he said, we want to put her
in jail. Remember when we played this whole thing and called craft Snappers,
you could be eligible for cash rewards. Sometimes though, like let's say you
had irritable bow syndrome or something, it could be bad. So I've been
doing this thing lately where I get up in the morning and I do all
this kind of weird shit and then I go for like a mile, different
different shit, and I go for a mile walk. And today I'm coming
back and my stomach and I go, Now, I have this bad habit.
Here's my bad habit lately. A bad habit is I'll leave here and
I go home, and I got to edit up the podcast, and I'm
usually tired, and I've been starting my day usually at about quarter to six
in the morning. I'll get up and I'm not getting to bed until about
midnight, saying, And today I stayed. I slept till six thirty.
But I ate like a bunch of cheese last night because I'm hungry right and
I'm just shoving chatting. I'm shoving it in my face. Crackers. I
got triskets, or as I say, if you buy them from all these
friskets. A friend of mine says that right, because they're not exactly there.
And so I'm eating all this shit and I'm I'm looking around, I'm
hunting and I had so I do all this and then I'm on the walk
and my stomach and I'm like, oh. And at one point I had
to stop moving. I just had to literally stopped moving. Yeah, and
I but the pain was so bad. I'm like, I don't know what
I'm gonna do here. And I'm actually scouting spots where I could go in
the woods just in case. So now I figured, oh, I can
make it back. And I get back. I opened my door, I
got to climb up the stairs, and I'm like, I had to stop
at the landing. I go, oh boy, So I go up.
I throw my keys on the counter. I run into the bathroom and I
get ready to go and I squatt that too late. Started No, not
even I didn't charge. I full on shit about three inches in front of
the toilet, and there was nothing I can do. And I turned around.
Now I grew up. You're in Wayne, County. I grew up
in a very rural area of New York State. Yeah, so there were
lots. I worked on farms as a kid and stuff. We used to
take the dried up cowshit that like the big and we used to fling into
each other like fresh fees. I remember I hit my friend in the back
of bad just shattered. It was like shit, it was like it was
terrible. But I looked down and I go, oh my god, it
looks like a cow just ship on the tile floor the bathroom. I had
to scoop it up. I'm bleaching in, I'm clean. I felt like
I could never get a clean I was so embarrassed that I told it on
the podcast. But I go, it's sucking karma for making fun all these
people shitting outside. Maybe she just had to maybe maybe and I get that
sender to apologize and he and that wasn't the point, and that became her,
became who she was. Anybody ever had a problem like that where you
just didn't make it. I'm definitely not going to share that, all right,
because I go and find that brasteen concerence story, which I've told a
couple of times, but I just made it. It was like the exon
Valdez oil spill or BP. Literally, I was like, oh my god,
I'm fucking becoming an old man. I said something to go, No,
it's just that, Yeah, you gotta stop eating it. Nice Jesus
Christ. The other thing, too, is it you put on a clinic
and if you take if you take like meta musil or fasting salts, if
you if you take too much fasting salt, which is actually like the recommended
dosage, it will lead you to more death. So you gotta be like,
you know, if you're gonna do this, you gotta pace yourself because
you might be at a meeting, like where will you be when you're locking
it starts working? Well, it's a lot like that. You know,
you're on four ninety ell of a sudden, oh's all right. That should
makeup for making fun of your picture. You know, I want you to
make fun of it. That girl's gone okay. So I want to know
about how you franchise the nailed it they studios or how that even becomes an
idea where you say, hey, it works here, well I wouldn't have
worked somewhere else. Yeah, Well, I mean the business started, it
was small it was. It was literally just an idea. I was creating
like wood signs for people, like they would buy them off my porch,
you know, like the marketplace at the beginning of two thousands. Yeah,
and at the time, people were asking, oh, I want more,
I want more. And then this one lady was like, hey, can
you teach the whole church how to do this stuff? And I was like
the whole church, Okay, I'll pack up, I'll figure it out.
And I went there and I taught, like I think there was like twenty
five women, and I came pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I mean
there was a lot of money back at the beginning when I didn't have a
job. So I came home from that night and it wasn't about like what
we did, it was about how they felt. Yeah. So I sat
there and I like sat in that emotion of like Okay, that felt good
because I made them feel good, and it was like pure out of my
heart, like yeah, oh, I was like I love that feeling.
I've got a passion that makes other people feel happy. You're speaking to something
that I'm a big believer in in that when you're going to do something that
has to become a successful business for you. You can't do it about the
money because if you do it about the money, it will fail. Yeah,
it just does. Yeah. You know, talk to anybody who's an
investment capitalist. I think they get a fourteen percent return on their money.
Yeah, eighty six percent of that ship fails. Yeah, yeah, I
agree. I mean it's just more of like um so that that means just
sit where you're going. Yeah yeah yeah. I was like, how do
I make this happen more? It was like a drug at that point,
and from church and another from church, I was like, but I'm never
going back to church, but I will do this again. So they're all
talking to tongues about their projects, right. No, they were such a
great group. But I'm still so close to them because they're always still to
me, like the people that inspired what I felt that night. But by
the morning time I had bought the website, I mean I did. My
friend came over, Christie, she's been my friend since I was five,
went to Fairport and we were we were drinking wine and she like turns to
me and she's like, what would you call it? I was like,
I don't know. And we were going back and forth and she just like
stopped and like threw the bottle and was like nailed it. Wow, And
that was it, and I was like, you know, we got on
go daddy. We bought the website, and I was like, we're going
to do something with this. I just don't know what, but I knew.
I couldn't sleep until I figured it out. Is your friend, Stephanie,
I no, I know. That's how you are when you're like giving
another and creative, you know, and you've got this heart, like all
of this trifecta of like passion came in and I was like, whoa,
So then how's it go from that? Well, and and everything starts.
That's what I always think is a good story whatever you're well, not even
a good stre but everything starts in somebody's head. Yeah, the microphone,
we're talking into the cameras, somebody's head. So this starts in your head
and then it becomes you know, uh see it, touch it, feel
it type thing, and then you get other people to buy rights everyone.
No, it was like, um, it was the type of thing where
I knew it had to be something, but I didn't have it all figured
out. It wasn't like I was like there's gonna be classes that are like
this, and we're gonna do this piece of wood, and it just again,
it was just more about the idea of what they felt and I was
like, we gotta, I gotta, I gotta do something with it.
So I think. I mean, at the time, we had just moved
to Carolinas. We didn't have a lot of money at the time because we
were still trying to save for a house or whatever. And I was like,
can I can I just take like like three hundred bucks and build a
table? And he was like I'm on it because Dwayne is like really handy
too, my husband, so he's like I'm I'm like, here's the table
I want. He builds this table and it was that was the only thing
we had. We went on Craigslist, we got chairs, and then I
just started inviting people. I was like, come to this classroom. And
also it was in the back of a storage room of a boutique. So
the boutique that was like everyone went there to go shopping. It was a
gift store and the way way back was like her ship room. I was
like, I'm gonna rent this from you. How do you feel about that?
Like I would like to borrow this room. Okay, sure, go
ahead, and I invited women in there and it just people just started coming.
So what year is this twenty fourteen? So this is twenty fourteen.
Nobody knew what what DIY studio Matt. People were like, what the hell
are we going to do here? And it would catch on because it was
you know, they would go home and talk about how they felt world oh
so great, and we were delivering a feeling, yeah, and that was
more powerful than the product. I'm telling you, there's something about the satisfaction
of doing it yourself. I really believe that, like when you actually do
something, you know, and if you can almost get your kid to feel
that way about school, there's some satisfaction in the wind. Yeah, you
know, but that's elusive, that's all one. But I do, I
really am. I'm a big believer in, you know, the satisfaction of
doing it and enjoying kind of getting there, whatever it is. But this
is fucking great. So you're like one of the first When did things like
the art and wine start? You see, these were people painting and wind.
Canvas was there first because canvas was great. But what people were finding
was that they would do it once and it felt great. Yeah, and
it was about the experience, but they didn't know where to put that.
How many canvases could they hang? How many can they hang up? What
are you gonna do with that? But yeah, and like really again,
they were selling the experience and that's who cares what they were making. You
can't do wine and power tools though, No, I mean no, no,
you should not do that. You should I would never no, never
operate machine. Right, there's a warning on that tool. Um. But
yeah, so does it go then from DIOI where you're doing crafts or you're
doing signs to like this Ryobi. Yeah, say Rio riobi one on one?
Were you doing that sort of classes too? Um? Where you were
actually teaching people, Hey, if you want to go home and you need
to, I don't know. You got a door that's not hanging, right,
here's how we change the hinges or here's what we do. No,
we weren't teaching people that, but we were teaching people the empowerment to feel
confident to maybe do that next. Right, So our studios use power tools.
Everybody that comes in uses real be power tools. They're using drills,
nail guns, staple gun. So how's everybody getting power tools? They didn't
we would buy it, Yeah, we just ironically my friend's father who passed
away, gave me his sander, and I that was the only thing I
had, Okay, So I started with hammer and nails. Yeah, and
like just like AI right, like shick out better. I could make things
happen quicker yea, and then slowly but surely, you know, the tools
became the most important part because I would say ninety percent of people that come
in have never held a power tool, and they certainly don't want to just
pick one up. There's no safe space for them to pick that up and
try it, because they're not going to go to you know, home depot
and just pick it up and try it, right. But we're like that
safe space, like it's okay, well if we got you, yeah,
we'll show you how to do that. So yeah, that again, that's
another part of that experience. Like, holy crap, I used a drill.
I'm fascinated that people have not. But I'm also going to make it
my mission that everybody in this world's going to figure it out, right,
like across the country, I want people to be empowered by it because again
that feeling. Yeah there, so this so this starts in the back of
somebody's storage, right, and then how where does it go from there?
Three, I say, three or four months into that, I met my
business partner and she had come into class and she was like, this has
to be bigger. Now. I'm not a business person. I know nothing
about quick I don't want to know anything about the business, like business,
how to do that like and I certainly also with me, didn't. I
couldn't. I didn't want to like schedule people, and I would always miss
schedule people. And there was no system, there was no operation. And
she was like, there's got to be an operation for this, and we
just slowly kind of built it together of like Okay, I'll create in my
mind and you make it operation run and somehow that'll happen. And that's when
people started saying I want one. I want one. I want one in
my town. So someone came and said, I want one in my town.
Okay, well that sounds rate yea, how do you make that a
reality? I mean, franchising is very difficult. You're trusting people with your
entire creative yeah idea, right, and your best practices all that stuff.
You can't teach personality, you can't teach compassion. All of the coffee is
all going to be made the same way every single time. Is there a
mission statement like for the company? Okay, so all of that has to
get down. Yeah, I mean that it's it's a lot of trust that
we put, you know into store studio owners, which they're all they're all
fascinating. They all have these crazy, great minds that are just all different
and that together makes up who we are. And that's so did you go
to so when somebody? Where was the first franchise? Um Fort Mill,
South Carolina? Okay? Oh, South Carolina? Okay, so did you
go there? Uh? Well, we own that one, I'm sorry,
the first franch So we opened the first franchise as a corporation. That was
our to test the you know, and then Mooresville, North Carolina, which
was like forty five minutes away, was our next one. And that was
of course we visited, you know, we were there and we wanted to
see the build out, and you know, you go through it and every
single buildout is different, like someone might build the table a little different or
you know, like things like that and you just kind of have to decide,
like what is most important that they're doing, paint color, the things
we have trademarked, right, like the dress, the colors, whatever.
And then after that it's like, okay, now let's hope that they feel
that deep burning passion to deliver the same experience. Yeah, and that's you
just go on that. So there's twenty one around the country and they're all
seemed to be doing. Yeah, well, Montanas are furthest out West,
and then Florida. There's a lot of the Florida. Have you gone to
a lot of these? Most of them? Most of them? Yep.
I think there's only a few that I haven't been to. Wow. Yeah,
that's amazing fun. Yeah, I mean the idea after it starts to
franchise, after there's one too, does it feel like, oh, this
will work anywhere? No? I think it takes a special place. Yeah,
and towns like say no to anybody? Yeah, did you said not
people who wanted the franch absolutely, Okay, Yeah, I think and you
know, I mean, you know people, I can read people pretty quickly,
I think, and I have an amazing team with me as well that
we all have different strengths and when you put them all together, you just
things work right, Like we care about each other and we work together and
we do these things so right it works. Wow, I had no idea.
Yeah, I had no idea. I'm sure it is a tremendous amount
of work, but what a How cool is that from something that you know?
And did you ever like I would write a thank you note to your
parents? Yeah? You know what I'm saying. I thank them every day
now I take care of them. No, they know. I mean,
yeah, they're great people and they're still very supportive and it's still exciting.
But my dad, I think still thinks I maybe paint furniture, you know,
like you know your parents, just you can think of things that you
tell your parents, and you're like, that is so lost in trims.
He is not picking up what I'm putting down? So yeah, what's next?
Then? Well with Riobe, you know they again that was part of
the Okay, we have this platform, let's dive off of it and let's
get more people around the country with with the traction that they can take it.
That's exciting and what we do and how our missions are lined up with
the values and the great things we're doing it, just who knows where it
can go. I think I think it'll go a lot further by teaching people
things that they can do, like tips and how to use tools. I
think that's a big miss because there really is not a space that you guys
could go to and be like, I want to learn a power tool.
And what happens when you go to home depot, Like you might not know
what associate might not know what you're talking about. I know that's where you
miss sort of those smaller right independent lumber hardware stes right where people did it
and knew it or they were doing it when you know your old man refers
to it as you like, but look, hey we gotta go down to
the lars, I get some lumber. Yeah, you know those days are
gone now. Yeah. If you go to home depot, and when you
go to home depot, some of those people have what you're talking about.
I told a kid the other day what a stud was. I was like,
I need a couple of studs. He's like, and it point to
himself. And that's another thing. Like imagine like going in as a woman,
like most of the time, everyone's like, are you here for something?
Or your husband. Yeah right right, no, you know, and
I'm gonna load my own damn truck up. It's awesome. That's awesome.
So yeah wow. So so could there be some kind of TV element absolutely
beyond is there talk? Absolutely? There always has there always has with something
like an HDTV or you know, they always make fun of me because I
say the barrier tantry's gone. I did thirty years bocast radio. But I
think, like this kind of stuff is it's gone, and you could do
it right on YouTube. I have a lot of friends who are comedians.
Now they're not putting specials out to Netflix or anything. I mean, I'm
sure that they're saturated, but they're just putting it right out for free on
YouTube. Why because it's putting asses and seats when they come to town.
And I just wonder, if you know, do you need a network anymore?
I don't don't know. I think to a certain extent maybe maybe because
it's a bigger reach. You know, it's it's like what you're doing,
and then uh, let me see if I get a right Riobe comes in
and you know what I'm saying, they have a bigger platform and they can
get you out to more places and maybe in front of other people that that
can help. And maybe the same thing with the one of the streaming services.
But I know that there's somebody in your house that knows all a lot
about all that totally. Yeah, he knows a lot about my world,
which he crushes my dream sometimes because he knows too much. Right, he
knows how it really works on the other end of production and yeah, and
TV. But at the same time he because of that ability, he's able
to really push me in the right ways, yes, and tell me when
I'm good and when I'm not good. Sometimes sometimes I often think too that
being a little bit naive where there is no why wouldn't this work? Right?
Yeah, that's where it works. Somebody goes, how the fuck did
that happen? Yeah, because you didn't know that it couldn't right, And
once you start to think, when you start talking to people, yeah,
I want to do that. He never says no. That's why Willy Wonka
had a contest and Charlie Buckett won the fact because he needed a child with
You know, we'll take one quick moment here and then come back and I
do you mind if we ask about your husband a little bit and what he
does and his involvement with the huge television. Is it cool, He's freaking
amazing. Okay, great, Yeah, that's the most important thing. Sweetest
guy, Nicest guy. We'll get to that next. First second, to
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today at four four two nineteen hundred. Blame it all all my roots.
I showed up in boots ruining your black tiff. I don't think this is
this is a garth. No, I was the last one you thought you'd
see there the music man and did this sounds like chimpagne. I watched somebody
in this studio do this on live band karaoke night over an iron smoke.
They have an actual band and then you get up and you can sing with
the band. Danny did that. I've never I've never been able to do
this song live until then. That's great. I hadn't convinced my band to
do it and they said no. So I need to take more control of
those people. Yeah you want, Yeah, I need to be the boss
voice, right, that's it, Like the Key of Boys. I just
need to break in and take control. But they got a Twitter account.
Now I think somebody acting as them. I don't think it's really that,
but the Key Boys. Yeah, I'm sure somebody as the Crump's already you
people. Yeah that's funny. Uh. Shannon Evans with the Nailed d I
Y Studios and also the host of Riobi Tools one on one. Look at
that Riobi Tools one on one. Growth growth in this podcast, A lot
of growth. But your husband is a television producer. Yes, he has
a two time Emmy Award winner. Wow. Yeah he's good. Well I'm
a great guy. What do the what does he want? Emmy? Olympic
Sports Live Live Turnaround? Okay? Yeah? And then is he involved with
he won for curl was curling? He won an Emmy for curling? Yeah,
I didn't know that was even possible. Well, it is cool when
you watch curling, like to get that camera to be right on the rock
as it comes down. Like is that all his ideas looks like where my
parents think of what I do? Like he tells me what he does,
but it's very hard for me to comprehend a lot of that because I'm not
there and I don't do it, so I probably gonna butcher everything he does,
and he's gonna be like, that's not even what I do. What
what? Okay, so what do you think he does? He's a he's
a producer, so he produces a lot of mostly sports. Was where he
kind of started to really love what he was doing. Um, like he's
in he does Wimbledon, US Open, British Open Players Club, all of
these, like okay, the Olympics, football, you know that's big stuff
everything, Yeah, the bigger stuff. So um, and NASCAR is one
of his work for he's freelancing. He's freelance, he's his own producer,
so they have to hire him on The great thing is that, like you
know with the writers strike, Yeah, the sports isn't affected. No rights
still play, Yeah they still play, So that that makes things a little
nicer. But he does, he do, so he does Nascar. NASCAR's
big. We've been in Nascar. That's like, that's all our life has
been since we moved there fifteen years ago. Is Nascar is Nascar, that's
all. It's so big of a part of our world. In my kids
World. They talk about it on sports radio in Charlotte. I mean it's
like a top Yeah, it's huge, that's all it's. That's all it
is. Does he do somebody said to me that he does Watkins Glenn when
NASCAR comes there, he produces. Does he's all the races he's coached.
Yeah, it's different. So like in a race, you'll see different things
happen on that race. Like when you're watching it, you might see a
spot where they're at Bubba Wallace's house and that's him. He's producing that spot
that then gets aired there. Or if you watch Radioactive and that's the spot
where it's all the swear words that they're saying in the car. He produces
that feature, so then that gets played, or if it's at the tracks
and he's you know, following around the live crew or whatever. So production
is so wide ranged. Of like television production, it's just there's so many
fascinating parts of it. But he also edits, so like he does,
he gets to take a lot of that and create his own, you know,
masterpiece if you will. So it's it's he's very well rounded in the
world of TV, and he's he's been in his whole life. It's all
he's known. Like to see that sizzle reel of all the sports. No,
seriously, all the clips he's done and all those. Does he do
the interviews himself? To the interviews? Yeah? Is he ever on camera?
No? He hates them. Okay, so he won't go he won't
go on. But but a lot of times he'll just see like NASCAR,
you'll see somebody talking to the cameras him and asking the question behind it.
Yeah. Wow, Yeah, it's fun and it's cool. Like in our
office, we um, I did this one thing that I built and I
put up all his credentials, and I remember telling him it's like every one
of those credentials was one event, and there was like hundreds of them from
the years and years of just remembering all of those simple moments that people don't
even know we're happening in the background, but that created that thing that someone
watched. And he's so humble. He's so humble, Like he's like,
oh, I'm my show was on and we'll be like yeah, and he's
like, all right, I'm going to bed. So you know, he
has he done anything for like any of the thirty for thirties with the ESPN
that you know, he did do ESPN stuff for a long time he did.
Yeah, I don't know what. I have no idea what the film
network does. He do more feature type stuff than the actual He did do
the show on USA Network that was like they the NASCAR, They followed the
drivers and it was like the reality okay, life type thing. So he
started in reality TV. He started. I met him because he invited me
to the Apprentice finale rat party Real and of course I'm gonna where I was
like sleep with me, yes, that party, m M Trump. Yeah,
I don't I don't know. I don't remember Amarosa. Maybe she liked
my type, you know. But um yeah, that's where he started,
you know, production and like reality so Bachelor at Bachelor, which he ruins
all of those for me because he tells me it's really happening. Yeah.
Um but reality is where he started. And we were both NBC pages so
and I don't know if you know about the Page program, but that's like
the start coveting position. Yeah. I don't know much about that at all.
Watched Dirty Rock I did, Okay, so now that's that's the parody
of the page it's the most incredible. It laid the foundation for so much
of both of our lives. And we both started there in television there.
Um, so yeah, that is that where you met him or no,
no, I met him in college. He was he was a marine,
so he came a little old. He was a little older than me,
so you know, I wouldn't date an older man, had morals right,
values much older. So I was like, we met in college and then
after college he used instant messenger whatever it was called, and that was what
the dms were of the day, right, he slid into my aim to
say, you know, and again he used the big words like producer TV
New York City, and I was like, oh, melting Yeah, I
was using producer radio Rochester. Who the hell are you use your words?
Right? So, yeah, my grandma loves you. Well take So did
you believe him when he was writing? Yeah, okay, yeah, I
mean he was such abody you could lie. And then I suppose I never
think that about his feet to the fire and say I'd like to go to
that rap party and then you show up. I don't know why, but
I don't think I ever think people are like doing me wrong. I'm always
like that boy is so nice. He's like he's trying to sleep with you.
Oh, but he's so sweet, Like I am a naive to like
the world. So I don't know. He just said it was happening,
and I went forty nine dollars Jet Blue ticket. Here we are. So
you flew up to New York from from Rochester. Yeah, those of the
days, right, ALM was like, take it go, I have fun.
Twelve days, twelve days. Wait a second, I know. It
was the greatest party, billy party. That's like a first date that I
know. There was so much and we had been talking for a long time,
and you know, yeah, he was doing he did what was that
Vegas show? Remember the Vegas reality show? And they like, I think
maybe it was called Vegas Now. He's gonna kill me in real world Vegas
Now, somebody. It was so good I'll remember. But anyway, he
was doing that show, and he was on the road doing that, and
he would call me from the road, and you know, we had an
extensive conversations. Yeah, prior to meeting, I felt safe. Okay,
so you oh, I got you. So all that and then he went
for a few months and then from why not twelve days? I mean there
was a lot, a lot to do, and sometimes you get there you
just connect with somebody, right, you just connect in the you know somebody
who just that recently they connect with somebody and they've been on a date since.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, good people are hard to
find, but I really just feel like genuine people you know right away they're
genuine. Yeah, And I don't really really think of any reason to and
then not believe that. And then all the way through he's just been supportive
of oh yeah, all this stuff with you and it's exploded, exploded,
and then he helps produce what for you. He does whatever I ask him.
And he's also really handy. He can build anything you show him.
I could hand him a catalog and say I want this pottery barn living room
and he'd be like, Okay, here's what we need to do. So
it's crazy because if he was great in front of the camera, wanted to
be in the camera, we could probably do more. But yeah, he
doesn't want to be there. He doesn't he doesn't want it. You don't
want to be like those that was a Magnolia couple. Yeah, No,
he would never Okay, yeah, yeah, didn't then impact their marriage or
something happened. I don't know, I don't know. We did an HDTV
show when we first moved to Charlotte, and we got casted for the show
when we were filming, and we filmed for like a month solid flipping a
how Home and it was like really cool. And then the producer comes in
on like the last day of filming and she goes, we're pulling the plug
on the show. There's a new person in Waco that we're going to go
test out. It was Joanna and Chip Gains. So our show never aired
because Joann and Chip Gaines were they were going to try them out in Waco.
Get to keep the stuff you filmed or no? Yeah, but we
did cap the house and we sold it. No, the house, but
I'm talking about what they filmed. Now, would you like to see that?
Let him editing and put it out on YouTube and go and that would
be the greatest behind the scenes right never who knows where it is. So
they just didn't feel like, you guys know, it was a whole thing
because the brothers that were doing it, they were very religious. Let's just
say they had a lot of beliefs that didn't belong on HDTV, they felt,
which is funny because Joanna and Chip Gains are very religious as well.
They were like extreme Christians though, and they you know, there was a
lot of controversy at the time. It was the early twenty fourteen, twelve
thirteen, um, so you know, the world was smaller there. There
wasn't as much social media maybe to fact check some things and really see what
was going on, so rumors were easily spread. But yeah, it's wow.
Yeah, how is TV extremely I mean I would imagine I don't know.
I try not to think about what I don't have when I think about
what I'm a big believer in as well. Once you start, you got
a subjects to subjects what I want. But there are bad people in there
and TV mean there are people that will do anything to get what they want
too. Yeah, it is cutthroat because there are people that don't one dog,
one bone. Sure, so don't find who you are though. Authenticity
is really weird. Well, right, that's why I do this. Yeah,
if you if someone's telling you to be on TV, to be like
someone who's already on TV, yeah you don't. You don't belong there you
go in being like this is what I have and this is what fuels me,
and this is what I'm passion. There's my four adopted children that I
didn't really adopt from four differ but I mean, clearly there's something that you
and I don't know if it's got to help your husband or not, but
Riobi coming in and all these others that that's a big deal. That's that's
got to be quite the endorsement for yourself, like going, hey, man,
this company is thinks, so yeah, well enough of me that they're
going to do that. I have a friend in television who was guiding a
lot of that journey for me. Okay, and that's someone that my husband
also had produced, so yeah, and he's very well known, so he
was able to kind of be like, hey, if this is what you
want, I can tell you what you're going to need to do and I
can help you with that. So I did have like a very great mentor
in that because sometimes I think with my husband, I don't want to be
honest, it's it's a hard thing when your husband's doing a job. I
don't know how to explain it, but I don't want to fight with him
or have reason to have conflict over something that doesn't deserve to be a conflict
at all. So, you know, I don't know. Sometimes it's just
he's he's so good at what he does and allowed to say who the mentor
is or yeah, retledge would okay, I don't know, would actually actually
I know the name wheel Show, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
oh wow, I thought it was Race Randy's Buddies. But I mean,
can you surround yourself with people like that who are not only doing what
you know, something great in television, but they're also good people. Yeah,
there's a difference with like when you get someone that believes in you,
that isn't an asshole, or that believes in you, that does have the
right capability and like to feel the right things that you're feeling. And it
was it was it was just like poetic, I mean everything. Just So,
do you still flip houses? Absolutely, It's funny because they're really hard
to flip right now. Flipping houses is not an easy thing because there's so
many people that are also rowing after the same homes. Yeah, so you
either have to have a lot of money or you gotta be somewhere ahead of
that and it's I don't know. I'm really looking right now. My brain
is turning with a lot of the tiny home, the world of tiny home
or tiny home living. I think a lot of people are minimalizing their life.
Yeah, And I think that happened with COVID, And even after COVID,
people were like, what really matters? Do we really need a seven
bedroom home? Right? And do we really need all this room? Or
do we really only need all this stuff? Because certain things became more important
to you. Yeah, And I also think sustainability wise, I don't think
everyone's always going to want these big homes. It's a lot. Yeah,
there's a lot to clean, it's a lot to do. Yeah, and
not everyone can afford them and everyone should. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I agree. It's funny. I knew a guy who owned his own contracting
business and they had a small house in a Rondequois and his wife did not
want to move. They looked at other houses, she goes, I want
to stay here. They had a daughter who's kind of a fashionist. To
let's say so, he did the coolest fucking thing I've ever seen. He
put a closet in the basement with a pole that she could slide down.
No. Yeah, there was a pole and a spiral staircase that went down
into her closets, so she could go down into her closets every day and
then back up. And then they took this really tiny kitchen and he renovated
it in all these different drawers and warming ovens and it's like state of the
yard in this tiny space. Yeah. I mean I think given the reality
of like you can create anything in your mind, yes, And I think
there's a lot of people that don't because they're like, where the hell would
I even begin, right, right, So, I mean I love hearing
those stories because I'm like, that was one time, just like this crazy.
I always give my husband those ideas, like crazy ass ideas and he
never says no, which that's that's where it's fun, Like, yeah,
anything can be done. Sure. Do you ever go and are you ever
brought in by people to look at a house and say it's what you'll do,
like an interior designer basically? Right? Yeah, I've had like an
investor took me to a house once. He didn't tell me what kind of
house. He just said, come look at this house. I think we
could flip it. I want to just know what you see. This dude
was housing raccoons whoa like forty of them, and they every time I opened
a door or anything, there was like a raccoon. Right. It was
the weirdest thing. So I'm like, I'm never going in until I see
photos first. That's it. That's it. But yeah, I do that
a lot like people will just you know, your intellectual property of what do
I do to my house? What should I do here? Yeah? Wow,
that's I had no idea. There was so much going on there,
and I didn't know about the Nailed at DY Studios. Like I said in
the beginning, I thought, oh, she's got a franchise. No,
it's the owner of it. Yeah, but that that's and I think it's
great that your husband right there in lockstep saying yeah, let's do it.
You know, there's no no and that that's great. That's very cool.
I'm really glad you came in. That was creator and owner of Nailed at
d I Y Studios. You can go to uh at nailed at d I
Y. Right, Yeah, I'd find those host of rio BI tools one
on one from Rochester to Charlotte, North Carolina. Look Out Television or something.
It's coming up soon for Christian Dan who um, it's full of aias
information, full of U s Hi. I was se real soon I was
this Morner, I was this morning. I'm glad you got that out of
your sister. I did. Nobody can enjoy it as much as me by
myself, so I have to tell the world. At some point, I
mil Moran. We'll see him Monday. I didn't know what to do.
I'm trying to TV, gonna do the letter to you and missus. I
didn't got a dag and the moment in a statem