In this episode, I am hiding under a blanket. My kids are home
from school, and I'm realizing, Man, I need to talk about my
freaking dad's funeral. It was some crazy shit. So that's what we're doing
today. And I have a special guest and I will introduce her in just
a moment. Be right back. Hey there, Welcome to the Latter Day
Lesbian Podcast, the podcast about an ex Mormon, a gay girl just trying
to figure out her life again, still always. I'm Shelley, and today
my special guest is Jennifer Jennifer. Wait before you say anything, you were
in my phone as Jennifer Lemon reeves. What's your name? What's your damn
name? None of those right now? And we're in a we're in a
status of change. So let's just say just Jennifer. Just, I mean,
just Jennifer. I know you know all this name changing and whatever,
it's just it is it really necessary? Yeah? No, okay, all
right, So Jennifer Jennifer. So let me back up. I know Jennifer
from Jennifer was one of the original podcast listeners. Yes, is this a
lie? When did you start listening? Oh? I am horrible with date,
so I would say sometime between the year two thousand and now. No,
I mean like when you started listening, did you have to catch up?
How about that? No? I didn't. No, ohfull there you
go. So so what you're saying is you started on episode one, like
most importantly, Yeah, I feel like I'm an OG member for sure.
Mmmmm awesome. And I met you in person when you were coming through the
area. You were out here, we had some ice cream. I just
mostly remember take Nataro. I don't remember ice cream. That's right. We
started with tag Nataro. And it makes me and me and Mary at the
time and you and your girlfriend at the time correct, we are both no
longer with those significant others because you know what, it's been some years.
It's been some years. I feel like that was pre COVID. That was
like forty nine years ago. So yeah, at least and boy if things
changed. But you and I have kept in touch because A, you're freaking
awesome and yeah, B so am I whatever I was gonna say. And
it takes two to know. It takes one to know one. Whatever that
thing is, it takes two to make a thing go right. And it's
a song. Don't make me, don't make I think I'm sang that.
If you like the last episode, I'm sorry, Yeah, I get to
doing that. So when I was thinking about who do I want to do
this episode with, unfortunately or fortunately, whatever you want to call it,
I had already told Kirsten, my other co host, about the experience at
my dad's funeral, and I'm like, you know what, this was such
a wacky ass funeral that I need to have someone on the show who knows
nothing so we can get like blind reaction. Yes, yes, which is
another way, which is another reason I'm making you do video because I have
to see this shit. It's like fucking swear. Okay, never mind,
you just answered. I want to know what the squear protocol wants, but
you just so. I'm gonna be myself now, yes you are. Well,
just you know, we always put an E for explicit on the episode.
Yep, yep. Before we jump in, take a few minutes and
just give our listeners a little background. You are ex Mormon lesbian. Yeah,
actually that's my handle on the TikTok is ex smell lesbo is it really
Yeah, that shit hurts a little bit that you don't have it favorite but
that's okay. I'm sorry. We can repent and move on. I came
out when I was thirty six fish or seven, was married to a dude
at the time, and I have four boys. I live in Utah and
got divorced, left the cult, and have been with the ladies ever since.
So that's kind of my no going back. Oh my god, No,
I'm gonna have to have a lot of guests on because I like to
hear all everyone's story. So that was a very short synopsis and it was
good, but you know we're gonna have We're gonna have to do a deep
dive. Remember there's like two episodes of me just incessantly talking. So that's
right. There's been on. Oh my god, I forgot, this is
my memory. You've been a past guest. Shit Christ, not for one,
but two episodes. It's I'm sorry, which it meant, and it's
just listen. I will we will end this episode and I will literally have
zero recollection of what we just talked about. That's how I roll. So
it's nothing personal at all all right, my dad sniffle, sniffle. So
here's what's up, people. My dad died. If you didn't know,
that A, you're not following me on social media, so what the fuck's
wrong with you? Also, my mom died back in August. We are
in what month? Are we in? March? Early March right now?
Yeah? And what are we twenty twenty four? Yeah, So if you
didn't know that my mom died, then you are not listening in order.
And I'm a little bit of a hard ass on that. I will make
exceptions, but just trust me that if you want the whole fucking story and
you want to know all the jokes and all the everything, you're going to
want to start a episode one. Those of you who are just finding me
episode one through, like episode A lot is me and my ex girlfriend Mary.
She was the co host that we had going as we started it,
and this is where we are now, and I'm going solo because there's just
I still have a lot more to say in things or life's moving, things
are changing, and I want to hear other people's stories. So that's what's
up. Well, and you're like the latter day lesbian, like you're it,
So I mean I kind of am, I kind of am, just
own it. That's a good point. That is, that's a good ass
point. You know what's crazy. Also anyone who's just tuning in for the
first time. Yeah, sticking on on topic, not my forte what just
just you know, every little veer is it's good, it's good. We
get back, Okay, thank you. So I don't know, Like two
hours ago, I'm hanging out of my house and I get a phone call
and I see it come up and it says lady that I used to go
running with like eight years ago when I was Mormon, Like, what the
what? So my answer I'm like, Candra, what's up? And she
goes Shelley like hey, and she says, what Shelley is this you call
life? What fuck? And she goes, well, I have I she
like a yoga instructor or something. She goes, I have a lot of
Shelley. So I was just going through all the Shelley's and trying to figure
out who they were. That's why she called me. Anyways, so we
had a good thirty minute catch up, Sesshon. She sends divorced, still
Mormon, lives in Florida. Just interesting and it's kind of weird because none
of the Mormons from my old Ward congregation. For those of you who aren't
Mormon. We don't really stay in touch. I doubt that they even follow
me on social anymore because when I first left the church, I left with
a fucking bang, and so she knew nothing about the divorce, like in
her mind Brent and I were great, super happy couple. I realized,
I'm gay, got to get out of the marriage because I'm gay, and
now there's a broken family. So I did need to mention a couple of
things to about that, because just in the conversation we were having, I
really got this sense that she did not know what the fuck. So anyway,
that's uh, that's that's an episode for another day. But it was
interesting, kind of threw me back. Well, yeah, and that happens
a lot, especially living in Utah. If you leave the I refer to
it, probably not correctly, a social suicide, Like you could live down
the street from a hundred people that you've talked to a billion times and they
suddenly have no idea who you are, m hm. And unless you show
up at relief society and then they are your best friends. No, I
co buy my own damn cookie. If I make back, No, I
don't. I don't make him. No, stops. You were never good
that way, right, No? Can you imagine that for me? Not?
Not at all. So okay, that was my little sidebar. So
after my mom died, my dad started really going downhill. And those of
you who know me, you know the podcast, you kind of know the
issues I've had with my dad, him being controlling, and it's still this
thing that I sort of struggle with. And I was talking with shit,
who was I talking with, I don't remember. I was talking with someone
who was also an ex Mormon. It might have been Austin, and he
was like, you know, a lot of people don't understand that when you
leave the church, your family's still there, and there's anger, and there's
everyone knows what happens when you leave the church. It fucking sucks. But
over time you can kind of see why they are the way they are.
And it's not like you excuse it because you still don't like it. But
at the same time, you're like, did they really have a choice,
Yeah, they didn't really know better, right, And so I look at
my relationship between my mom and my dad, and my dad controlled every move
she made and she allowed it. She That's just that was their generation and
their cult that they it was like a like a twofer, And so I've
had to really sort of let that anger go because again, like what was
what was their choice? That was what they were born into. And my
dad does have a very strong personality, and so he would take the reins
and my mom would just follow along. Was she happy with that? I
don't know. You know, she would say no, and then she would
say yes. It's just it's hard to pick that all apart. Do you
have like what's your dynamic? Where are your parents? Kind of that way?
Well, no, they're a hot fucking mass. But I think that
it's really hard when you've grown up in the church and it's multi generational to
separate the cult from the person. And so like whether your mom was like
that because that's how she would have been in any relationship, or because she
was like that because she literally spent her entire life being brainwashed into what kind
of person she was supposed to be the same for your dad, Like my
parents are they're nothing. I mean, my parents are very young and wait
how old are they? But the numbers again, I think my dad's like
sixty twoish. Maybe God was this like a teen pregnancy oh yeah, yeah,
not me. I have an older brother. So I'm forty seven and
I have an older brother. My parents met in Provo at the high school
there, got knocked up on their seventeenth birthday. Wow. Four kids by
the age of twenty one, so yeah, okay, that's fucking nuts.
Didn't know this about you, But my mom has been born again into the
Mormon Church probably a good half a dozen times. Like, I didn't know
you could get excommunicated and come back that many times, but you can.
I have an uncle that did that, so all good. Yeah, So
she's on number six and my dad is currently in number three. Don't know
what that'll be like. So yeah, they don't have a really a lot
of room to talk about my behavior and choices. But at least their choices
are straight choices, so that makes it better. I'm and ironically, my
dad's only one that stepped up. I went no contact with my mom when
I got engaged so to a woman. Yeah right, yeah. They were
fine with it till they didn't have to look at it, and then it
got too real. So but my dad was not that way. He's one
hundred percent supportive and good shoes up for everything. So and still sits in
a pew on Sunday. I don't know how people do both, but it's
bizarre and it that's where they're at. Yeah, and this this was a
struggle a lot of the times that I've had with people. Is it being
so close to home for me, my family, and as much as the
things they've said and done have hurt me, again, it's like, well,
they're fucked up. You know. They're saying these things because this is
what they've been taught and this is what they believe, and so I kind
of have to just be okay with ignoring it sometimes. Yeah, Well,
and you get to choose who you do that with, like if you're willing
to accept it or not absolutely. And there are people in my family that
are away where no, sorry no, and I don't have this, No,
ain't gonna happen. And then there are people where I'm like, in
my mind, I just kind of laugh, like that was the dumbest thing
I've ever heard. But whatever, we move on because ninety nine percent of
the time they're fantastic. And so something that I've learned along this journey and
looking back from where I started with this podcast is my level of understanding for
others has I think deepened dramatically well, And that's like a perk of leaving
Mormonism on its own, is you get to understand and experience variety instead of
like nine hundred shades of vanilla life, Like you get to see that there's
people are fucked up for a lot of different reasons. And how much anger
you choose to place on the back that they're fucked up because they are Mormon
is like up to you. Oh yeah, yes, yes, because I
could easily tell all my family, Look, you're Mormon, you still support
this religion, blah blah blah, don't talk to me until you leave.
And some people do that and that's their right, and that's you know,
if that works for you. I am not knocking that everyone has their own
situation. But I came to the point where I'm like, I'm looking at
each of my family members as an individual, and how do they treat me
personally, their beliefs, whatever, how do they treat me? And so
again, that was the way that I had to get with my dad was
like him as a human being being so controlling and he knows everything, and
he was judgmental. She gotta let that shit go, you know, especially
since the time that he and my mom got sick, and that started in
COVID, during COVID, but after my mom passed, like six or seven
months ago, again, it was like he had nothing to live for.
Now here's where this control thing comes in. He lived for my mom.
And that sounds cute and kind and loving and romantic. But because of my
experience with my dad that taking care of my mom, he wanted to take
care of my mom control. He wanted her like she couldn't have an opinion.
He would decide for her. If she started losing her mind, she
would be more rebellious and say, Terry, I don't want to go there,
and he would make her, you know, And so that was hard
for me. Yeah, But again in my mind, I'm like, wait,
but my dad literally thinks that he knows what's best for her, so
he, honest to God, feels like he's doing right by her. It's
twisted, right, I mean, I don't like it, but like he
really thought he was doing what was best for her. It's such a crazy
thing to have to come to when you see your parents as like nearly dead
and you are coming to terms with all of it well, and like you
watch them kind of deplete, like it wasn't incidental and rapid and not prepared
for, Like you watched this like phasing out of both of them, and
that would be insanely hard to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it
was definitely surreal. I recorded an episode and it's already been released, and
it was basically going over me watching my dad die. So and I record
that with Kirsten, so I don't need to go over all of that again.
Yeah, we're just thinking about the going forward. So my dad's dead,
so many things are popping up in my mind. For example, when
I was out there again, I have my oldest brother, David Worth with
a piece of shit can't stand and brought in Hell. Lives near my parents
of course, howtworks Mormon. Yeah, and then Mike and Mark also Mormon,
don't live in the area. Mike's in Florida, Mark's in Washington State.
Mormon wives are Mormon, but they're good guys, like they're good ass
people. And so some of the conversations after my dad died, it was,
you know, we go to the funeral home and the funeral directors is
saying, you know, Mike and Mark, you are welcome to help dress
the body. And they were like, uh, that's weird. And I
had that experience that I talked about in previous episodes about how I was told
I wasn't allowed to dress the body because dress the body in this case,
by the way, when you go to dress the body, they already have
their temple gown on. They're not like buck naked. That'd be weird for
me. It was just putting their temple clothing on over top of the gown,
right. Yeah. I was told I wasn't allowed to do that because
I wasn't worthy. And of course I'm like, excuse me, you know,
yeah, watch me. And so the experience that I had going there
and dressing my mom and I was there with my two sister in laws and
one of my aunts, two of my aunts, I guess, And it
was a really actually a super cool experience that was full of like girl power
because even though they were all Mormon, they deferred to me because I was
the daughter. I felt so much love and respect in that moment because they
all know I'm so not Mormon. They know, and they know I wasn't
supposed to be there. They knew, but they were like it was almost
like a like a fuck you patriarchy moment, not that anyone was going to
say that out loud, but they knew this was against the rules and they
were supporting it. And I don't know, it just felt it felt good,
and it felt good to I don't know, to have that moment with
my mom. Yeah, well, and think about it. It's the one
time in Mormonism where you got like only women got to be in charge.
Like there's not a dude telling you what steps to do. There wasn't a
dude overseeing it or like giving you the thumbs up that you did it okay.
It was literally just no, you're right, women taking care of women.
That doesn't happen, especially in the what's the phrase? I forget most
of the Mormon words, which I love ordinance, Like, there's not any
ordinances that just women are in charge of. So I can imagine that that
was a super bonding and powerful experience. It was. It really really was.
So when my brothers were like, oh, I don't know if we
want to do that, it's kind of weird. And then I was talking
to my brothers when were driving away, and I was saying just you know,
guys, I don't I don't think you should miss out on this,
Like, it's not as weird as you think. Dad will already have clothes
on. The funeral director could be there and kind of help you maneuver him
and to get the I know it's weird sounding, but it was a really
special experience that I had. So flash forward to the day after the day
of, after they had gone to dress him, and they were traumatized by
it. They it was they did go do it. Then they did and
it was not good for them, And I was thinking about that, and
I'm like, hmm, I wonder why because it was just the two of
them, not the first brother. That's the no, not the Listen,
we tell first brother nothing, okay, he ruins everything. Okay. So
no, dude was not even invited. So the two that didn't want to
ended up doing it. Yeah, Mike and Mark, Mike and Mark at
the Cold Ones, Mike and markt my boys David raw in Hell. So
Mike and Mark went ahead and did it, and and I'm like, so,
how was it? And they were they were traumatized, And I felt
kind of bad for sort of saying that they should, And then I was
thinking, you know, the reason that it was so beautiful for me and
these women was, yeah, it was it was powerful, it was women
respecting a woman. Yeah, but my brothers just kind of saw it more
as like, well, we got to put dad's clothes on he's dead.
Oh. I don't know why I bring that up. I guess because it
just kind of sat with me that it's interesting that I participated in an ordinance.
I don't know if it's typically do they call an ordinance to do that?
I don't know, but I participated in something Mormon that I wasn't allowed
to and I did anyway, and it was beautiful for me. And my
brothers participated in something that they were allowed to and they were supposed to do
and they hated it so well. Also consider like just the male female emotional
part of it, like you have connection, enclosure and like feminine energy and
yeah, boys being tasky and they're like, Hugh, like why would we
do this? Like they don't need that connection, So maybe it just wasn't
meant to be that experience for them. And they get to do a thousand
ordinances so who cares about what more? Yeah, that's true good point.
Yeah, I just thought it was interesting, Like, huh so in typical
me podcasting fashion, I'll be jumping around all over the place like that.
I thought of that. So we did that. So next up is we
had to start planning the funeral. And you know what sucks is when you
were just sitting at the funeral home and you're like, just do just do
the same one that's on the books from six months ago, Like that fucking
sucks. It's it's bad, I know, just change the gender and keep
everything else the same. Yeah, we'll send you a picture. It was
uh god, it would have been bad if you had to ask for like
a bogo or something like that, like you get a bounce back pass.
Wait, you don't think we didn't make those jokes, because we did.
We did. Yes. So my brother, my brother Mark and I were
like the funny ones in the family, were super irreverent. And we go
in there and we're like, what's up Logan because we remember him, Logan
the blonde funeral director. I'm like, dude, we're back, what's up.
I want to get one free? And he's shaking is He's trying to
be like, I'm so sorry for your loss. We're like, yeah,
yeah, yeah, it's because to remind people, I was actually going out
to Utah that weekend for my uncle's funeral, who had died age sixty nine,
passed away, but it turned out my dad got hell of bad and
so I bump my flight up to get out there right away, and then
my dad died and then we went to my uncle's shereet. I mean,
it's just like death. Everything is death and dying, and to the point
where it's almost I'm not gonna say comical, but like, how do you
not say something about Fridly? Shit? Who's next? Right? I mean,
it's it's it's one of those things. So planning the funeral, my
brothers asked me if I wanted to speak, and I'm like sure, which
was awesome. I spoke at my mom's funeral and my brother asked me,
and I was very honored that he yeah, I'm having all these thoughts right
now, and I'll tell you why. And I'm just going to say it.
It was very hard for Mary to watch me sort of in her mind
given to the patriarchy, meaning my brother asked me to speak, and that
felt good to me, and she would have been like, why didn't you
just tell him, Hey, I'm going to speak. You know, there's
a dynamic there that we kind of butted heads on a lot, and this
is not again. We all have our own experiences. Mary had all women
in her family, and you know, I dealt with things in my own
way. But I do want to say that in that dynamic, for my
brother, who knows I freaking ripped the shit out of the church when I
left, for him to trust that I'm going to honor my mom means a
lot to me. And that's nothing to do with religion. That's to do
with the fact that he trusts that I will honor her with the love that
I have for her and not have a platform or in front of a bunch
of Mormons, which could have been fun, but jos no, no,
they wouldn't have. So when he asked if I wanted to speak, I'm
like, yeah, yeah, absolutely, of course, I'll take a few
minutes. And I also said, you know, Dad was really into music.
I think that most of it should be music. Cool. So then
was the part of what do I say about my dad? And I struggled
with that, and because the way that my dad would want to be honored
would be his church service, and I don't want to do that. Yeah,
and they love a good like bibliography for a funeral, like just say
their callings, talk about what they did, the service. They gave maybe
a minute about the family, but it's not even really about the person.
It's just about what how did they qualify in churchactly exactly. It was easy
for me with my mom because my mom and I had a different kind of
relationship. My mom and I, our relationship was based outside of religion.
By the end, you know, if those of you who haven't listened to
the episode where I play the recording of what I said about my mom,
you'll see it wasn't about me honoring my mom for being Mormon, right.
So I was trying to think, like what do I say? What do
I say about my dad that I can be true about and not have it
kind of not feel good for me. So I'm thinking, what did I
learn from my dad? Uh? My dad is very gets things done.
So I say that, and then instantly I remember, Oh, he made
us do all this church shit that we didn't want to do. He made
my mom blah blah blah. So everything that I was coming up with because
I was thinking about I could talk about things I've learned from my dad.
Everything I came up with, Jennifer gave me shudders, like I didn't.
It was all related to this having to appear to be the perfect Mormon family
or we follow the rules, because God said, you know, did you
have any kind of dynamic with your dad outside of church or was like every
part of your connection with him also connected to church? It was church?
It was church, yeah, you know, sure there was like I played
basketball, but he but it was church fall he was sure. Yeah,
well it was even you know, making me think of things. So I
don't know. I was like a senior in high school or whatever, and
he was asking me, like, what's my most important goal or whatever?
And I said, I want to play college of basketball. And he was
disappointed in me because my goal wasn't to graduate seminary and get married, to
make babies and do all that stuff. Right, that you had a path
for yourself instead of for church, right, Right's super understandable. Yeah,
I know, right. So I eventually decided I just wasn't going to talk
because there were a few things I could come up with to say, but
all it would be doing was telling kind of funny stories and it would be
more like me entertaining and and not honoring. I don't know. It was
such a it was such a brain fuck, Jennifer. It was like like
no reflection that would be appropriate in that environment, Like there was nothing good
to say that was like of substance and also truthful that wasn't going to like
cause a problem, right right, And I and I don't mean that like
in a disrespectful way toward my dad. He was who he was, He
did what, you know, he lived his life. But but I just
couldn't come up with something that that I wanted to share that didn't feel like,
you know, I could. I couldn't get up and share about how
you know, he would say that black athletes wear their hair and braids to
get more TV time with ESPN. I'm not gonna it's hilarious, isn't It's
a fun thing to tell your friends, Like I can't believe my dad fucking
said that. But it's not funeral, no, yeah, and especially Mormon
funeral, Like right, there's an expectation of tone and relay of information.
And if my mother were to pass away silently crossing fingers. I wouldn't be
able to say anything either. I would just I wouldn't go, but I
wouldn't be able to There's nothing I can say about her that is honest,
that would not cause a lot of hurt and wouldn't be damaging to a lot
of other people, And it's not the appropriate form for that. So I
totally understand where you're coming from. Like, it sounds like you have quite
a bit more well not a bit more. It sounds like you have a
little bit better connection because you were communicating with your dad, But like that
damage runs deep, like the shit that happens for fifty years of your life.
Like it doesn't stop because they're dying, It doesn't. I mean it
softens a little bit, but when you reflect back on it, you can't
really just likeate a fake positive memory. Yeah, you brought up a great
point. You said it softens as they get older and weaker and die or
whatever. And my feelings toward my dad had softened by the time he died,
And when I started thinking of what I would say at the funeral,
I could feel myself getting hard again, like, uh, like this isn't
good for me, Yes, this is I don't I want to leave my
dad as with the soft feelings that I have. Yeah, did it feel
like a failure that you weren't able to come up with something to say?
Or was like how did that work out for you? No? No,
I mean I was stressed out about fifty seven thousand other things going on in
my life anyway, So it was a bit of a relief, but no,
not a failure because my brothers were going to speak and I knew that
they would do right by my dad. My brother Mike, he was also
in the Air Force. My dad was Air Force, so he was going
to talk about that kind of thing, and my brother Mark talked about his
mission and stuff. So the funeral was actually itself. The way it was
put together was great. My friend Kirsten again, the other co host,
her and her wife Anne are very musical, and I asked them if they
would be the chorister and the pianist for the funeral. Check with my brothers
first, because I was like, wait, pause, you had a lesbian
couple. This is so fucking great, Jennifer. You just said that like
that was the most casual thing you've ever come up with. Like I just
listening to the names that I'm like, no, there's a lady names,
lady name lesbians. Maybe that was my contribution. Oh my god, Okay,
I love how you just said it like it was fucking nothing, like
everyone does that, everyone does that slipped in some party bags. Hmm.
The way that came about was when I had told my brothers Mike and Mark,
I'm like, there should be a lot of music here, because that's
into music. And I said, you know, I have these friends and
they do music, and the Ones professional pianist and blah blah blah. You
know, you can just get whatever sister Olsen from the War to play the
organ, but if we really want like some kick ass music, we need
to take it up a notch. And they're professionals and they knew they were
married women didn't say that yet. Shit, Okay. I was like the
way you're selling it. They're like, yeah, Jones can come on over.
Yeah, they're sisters. And then you're like, jokes on you.
They bone last night. Holy shit, the ball's on you right now.
God, they're dropping. They're finally dropping. Okay, Okay, So the
boys say yes, The brothers say yes, yes, because I am like,
they can play anything on the piano. They're professionals. I think we
should bring in like some Irish music so or Scottish music. So this is
some funny shit. My dad has always thought and insisted that we are from
like some noble Scottish heritage, right me too nice, which is so funny
because he always used that, like when I left the church to use it
as good like you're you're you're destroying your school. And he always says Scoltish
Scoltish heritage like a god, Dad, it's a provo accent. You don't
get it? Is that what it is? Well, he was Egle Mountain,
but yeah, but he would say things like, you know when I
when I hear those bagpipes of my country, you know, it just makes
my blood role or whatever. A couple of years ago, I did an
ancestry dot com test We're not fucking Scottish zero percent zero Oh my god.
But I never told my dad because whatever. He was old by then,
and I'm like, we'll just let it, We'll just let it think that.
And so I told my brothers, I'm like, well, you know
what, let's hear some great Scottish songs that I've heard. Dad, singing,
you know, honoring the heritage. I told my brothers that I'll check
with my friends and see do they know any of like this, the Scottish
songs, and I look some stuff up and they got back to me,
of course, are like, uh, one of them can sing oh Danny
boy. My dad sing that all the time. That's not Scottish, I
don't think. But my dad always would sing that. And he also would
sing, shit, what's that song? Blah blah blah, that's something about
my Bonnie, you'll take the high road. I'll do that one, which
is a Scottish song. And so I got back with my brothers and I'm
like, yeah, they could sing this one, the one could play this
like. There's so many options, and they're cool, that sounds great.
And then I said, well, let me get back to let me get
let me get back to Kirston and Anne, their wives. And one of
brothers was like, wait, and you know what's funny, is there anything
to a plan that I wasn't like trying to sneak It just can't turned out
because it's normal to you now, that's just relationship up. Yeah, I'm
like a normal ass person, not not thinking about who did they sleep with
last night? Should I let them play the piano? You're gonna get all
the keys? Oh? No, I know. They were like, oh
wife, and I'm like yeah, I said wives, and they just kind
of didn't say anything. And I said, look, it's not like they're
going to be making out. You won't even know they're together. Okay,
they it's gonna it's fine. Uh. And I think one of my brothers
was like, do they have any neck tattoos? Like, oh god,
which one of them does, but it's in the back and she covered it
with her hair. Uh. So that was that was just freaking hilarious.
So well, because they've got to be concerned with like the physical, like
what is going to be showing, Like there's the presentation, like everything has
to look a certain way for a Mormon funeral and if you have sure you
know, butch Cassidy like these are they are fem Okay, So I wasn't,
you know, bringing some moulded pants wearing it did make me happy because
I did want to respect what my dad would have wanted at his funeral,
and he, you know, he was very conservative. And so I did
talk to both of them and I'm like, listen, I know this is
weird. Would you mind taking your nose ring out? She's like, no,
not at all. I don't fucking care, you know. But and
again some people probably would say, Shelley, they should be able to wear
what they want. And I'm going to yes at and they exactly. And
again, this this is fucking balance. It's such a balance. And I'm
doing this for my dad. It's my dad's funeralalal, It's not like it
was just some random word party, and I'm like, if you're going to
come to the word party, you know, don't wear a black funeral.
It was supposed to be respectful for my dad and he was very traditional.
So yeah, let's be in said the music, which, by the way,
and I will post this picture. There is a lovely picture of me
and my girlfriend. Yes, people who were just turning in, I do
have a new girlfriend. And h ann and Kirsten all up on the like
by the podium what do we call it, lesbians and leadership? We did
a selfie, yes, by the pulpit like in their yeah, like where
the bishops sit. Yeah, yeah, I will post that. It was
fantastic. Oh that's a T shirt right there. Oh my god, you're
right, You're right, Okay, I know, continue, thank you.
They're gonna then they better give me the water first when they go past it,
because I'm up on the podium and I'm like, the this so weird,
God whatever flashbacks. So m hm, it doesn't it seem like so
long ago? When was the last time you were, like, went to
a sacre meeting as a sort of Mormon seven years? Wow? I mean
I've been to like mission farewells and stuff, but yeah, not as myself.
But it's funny that you mentioned thinking about like how to show up,
because even when I've gone, I have a sister that lives in the same
town as me, and she's super Mormon, and all of her kids are
going on missions and they all do the checklist stuff. They all do everything
they're supposed to do. So every farewell, every homecoming. And when I
first started going to those events, which took a lot, I covered myself.
I made myself up here as if I was Mormon. I didn't want
to cause disruption. I don't do that shit anymore. But so I'm like,
I can't not be myself. But it's funny how long that takes to
come out of your system when you're just so used to doing what's expected of
you instead of what you want to do in your life. Right, Yeah,
have you hit the point and I have where so you go to like
trying to just be small and not ruffle you know, anyone as you're leaving,
and then you get to the point where you're like, okay, it's
fine, And then point where I am where I'm like, yeah, I'm
wearing a sweater, but you better believe I'm hiking those sleeves up so people
can see my tattoos, like you do it all a little bit, yes,
And I don't do that as in your face. I do that as
a like anyone else here. I'm safe, speacon of hope. You know.
Yes, ye do that all the time. And when I see people
in the church that have tattoos and they see mine and you visually see them,
relax. Yeah, it's fucking beautiful, isn't it funny? I want
to And you can cut this out later if you're like, I don't need
your bullshit story. I was talking to because there's a fairly large ex Mormon
community here in Cash Valley, like we get together for thirsty Thursdays. They
have a faith transition support group at the Pride House every Sunday, Like it's
a big part of the culture up here. And there's a really good and
close queer community here too, which is ironic, but it's because we have
a university, so we just have forced diversity. But we were talking about
how the people we were always taught to stay away from, generationally, at
least my age and maybe a little bit younger, for people with piercing's weird
hair tattoos that had lived hard lives looked like they'd been through shit. You
don't talk to those people because they're scary and bad. And now in my
life so long after leaving the church, those are the people I would much
rather spend any of my time with as somebody that does not look Mormon.
If you look like you're Mormon, we probably should just not even be friends.
And it's totally flipped like that. That like, that's why I started
getting some tattoos. Was the beacon of hope thing like connecting it made.
My first tattoo was gay looking, and so I was like just letting people
know, well, mine was a coffee a coffee mug. So oh that
center. But I think that that's a really big thing, like just finding
those identifiers and like we talked about at the beginning, like experiencing the whole
scope of humanity and not just Nick Chicken Lee and her seventeen children, like
everybody just being the same. Everybody's the same, they all were the same.
When you go to church, they all wear the same dresses. Like
it's a pilgrim thing right now. And to just be like this fucking weirdo
in the corner with the turquoise hair and I think something's on her nose,
like this little like head tilt of like the fuck is that? Like that's
what I live for. It's just like a little bit of curiosity. And
if there's one kid in that congregation that thinks they might have the gay,
there's one kid that like loves drawing tattoos, just be like, all right,
I'm gonna survive this, Like I'm going to get through and this is
not going to be what kills me in my life. Yes, yes,
God, I love that. I love that. It's so true. Like
there's also this so I know from who I am that people typically like me
because at this point in my life, I'm always outgoing. I'm talkative,
I say hi to people, I try my best to be kind and whatever.
And so when I'm in the church and I'm seeing like my cousins and
there, then they're kids who were, you know, youngish, and the
kids are just drawn to me because I'm like, hey man, what's up?
High five? Like that's how I am. I'm not going and I
try to make people relax and have fun and whatever. And so there's this
thing of yeah, so there's this thing of like, I don't know if
this sounds weird, but it's almost like I'm showing that I am a good
person, right, even though that you're not the bad person that you've been
taught you are right right, and that I am actually pretty freaking likable.
And so people who were probably like, oh, yeah that's Shelly. Gosh,
she went astray, but gosh, she's just so fucking nice. Yeah,
you know, it's this I don't know what that is in me,
but it just, oh, it's like you're in your inside volume, like
you weren't allowed to be that person when you were Mormon because it was subdued
and you're supposed to be quiet and don't have opinions and I mean similar to
how you talked about your dad's relationship with your mom, Like can you imagine
if your mom was as mouthy as you where that would have gotten her in
her life she had your SaaS level, that would have not not been good
for her. And so like you being able to fully express all of your
authenticity and like really step into yourself, that's that's what people are drawn to.
I don't even think it's that you're outgoing. It's that they can see
that you're being authentic and who you are. And there is a shell of
humanity and a lot of Mormonism where it's just this even said it like you
had to appear as if like you just get this like surface layer of people
and nobody really knows that like once this family gets into the parking lot that
the parents like rail on them and they get in trouble for whatever. You
have no idea. But like when you are yourself, like your shit's just
out there, you're like, here's all my fucking crazy I got these problems.
This is my complex PTSD. Like everybody's just like putting their shit out
there. And Mormonism you're like, no, everything's fine and we're doing wonderful
and everybody is perfect and happy, and you're not allowed to be like sad
or angry or have problems. God forbid you have like a disorder or a
mental health crisis, Like that's none of that's allowed. So I think authenticity
you just you just pray that mental health disorder right away. That's another podcast.
We will go there. Not to worry. There's just this pride I
have of being an ex Mormon and being a good person. Yep. Yeah,
And I don't know. I guess that's my identity now, I don't.
I don't. I love it, you know, I love it,
and it's I huh, I just I don't know. I'm just thinking about
that. Well, what's the worst they can say about you? This is
how I feel about it, because I have one kid that's still in the
church, and the worst thing Air quotes that he can say about me is
that I'm gay and I'm not a Mormon. But he cannot he can't say
anything about my personality and who I am as a human being or a mom.
If the worst on my death day is she was gay and she wasn't
a member of the Church's there's a lot of Funcker Mormons that are horrible people.
And it doesn't matter that they're Mormons, and it doesn't matter that they're
straight. They're terrible people. So I work on like my people side because
I don't give a shit what you think about my sexuality. Oh I love
that, freaking love that. Yeah. Do you think this kid? How
old is this kid? He's sixteen. He's my baby. He's gonna I
think he's gonna stay with it. I think he'll stay until his father passes
away. So, because it's a people pleasing situation, he's he's the last
one. All Ma and the kids have left the church. They all live
with me except for him, So he's he gets a lot of reinforcement and
positive accolades for being the one that stayed. It's not him at all,
like and he's with me. He is a mouth mouthy little shit. He's
me. He's exactly like me. He's an entertainer. He is sassy,
and he has the worst potty mouth ever of all of my children. And
but then he will sit in that peu and he'll bless the sacrament, and
he'll go and do the things that the Lord has commanded him. And if
you don't sing along, but like, I know that that's not really him.
It's just not my journey to tell him to go. If you could
just get out of it for like thirty days, he would never go back,
right. But there's a lot of codependency of Mormonism. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, man. I am so glad that none of my kids are
interested in religion at all, period, end of story. That makes me
so happy. Yeah, so happy. Well, and I only have to
apologize a little bit for the mom that I was when I was marmon anymore.
Oh I. As a matter of fact, I was apologizing to my
daughter Genevieve, who's twenty eight now. I was going through some pictures and
there's a picture for her when she had really bad poison ivy, and I
remember I was so impatient with it because it was she was like this itches,
I can't sleep, and I was like, well, put more ben
and drool on and I don't want to hear it. And so I saw
this picture and I called her. I'm like, I am so sorry that
I didn't have any patience with you and you have the poison ivy. She's
like, mom, it's fine, and I go, no, no,
no, I was so overwhelmed with my life. Yeah. So she was
probably eleven at the time, which means I would have had had a nine
year old, a seven year old, like I might have had all of
them at that point, and like infants, and I might have been pregnant
like the knows. And so I wasn't patient with anybody, because how can
you be when you're just constantly on this freaking mom wheel. Yeah that's funny.
So yeah, today I apologize to her for that. Where did we
leave off the lesbian saying, and you took a selfie? Yes, yes,
yes, yes, that was the funeral and we're you know, we're
probably gonnaed to split this into two episodes because we're almost an hour in and
I love it. We haven't even gotten to the funeral yet. It was
just preparation for the funeral. Yeah, so I think, I know,
I know, there's so much to say. I haven't even started talking about
the wacky, crazy shit from my brother David, but I'll get there.
But what I wanted to point out now is the new relationship that I'm in.
Her name is Donna. She has children. She understands the responsibilities of
being a mom, which is something that I've really needed and it's been so
good for me. When after my dad died and she said I would love
to go to the funeral, and it was like wow, like that meant
so much to me after having had to go to my mom's funeral by myself.
That's a big contrast. Yeah, like offering to go instead of having
to be asked, and also that maybe say no or just not even thinking
that that was the right thing you should do for a partner. Yeah,
Yeah, for sure, it was. It was almost like she just expected
that she would go. You know, Donna is like, well, we're
a couple, and you know, of course this is what she would do
for you. Yeah, of course. Of course. Another funny thing is
Donna trying to think how much detail I should go into here. I I
don't have a lot of money, Okay, so when I fly with my
kids, we fly on Spirit Airlines, which means we're in the air for
like forty nine hours with a thousand layovers, so that we can afford it.
Yeah, Donna can easily afford to buy a fucking NonStop flight on Delta.
But she was like, no, I want I want to fly with
you guys. You're fucking nuts, like you're fucking nuts to just trust No
you don't. But she was like, well, yeah, of course,
of course I do. And I go, well, you do understand that
we have like a like a five hour layover in LA. But she just
she just gets it and she wants to be part of it. And it's
just beautiful to me to feel like this partner is so on board with my
entire fucking shit show, because it is a fucking shit show I got going
on. There's a lot of children's so yeah, we all met up at
I think Donna's Okay, no, no, no. Donna came over and
stayed with me the night before and like helped pack snacks because so you know,
when you fly Spirit, they don't give you shit on the plane,
like you're you're gonna starve, Yeah, they don't care. So she actually
brought an empty suitcase so that we could shove it so full of snacks that
I wouldn't have to buy any But it's so crazy, that's exactly what the
fuck it was. And believe you me, the people on Spirit Airlines who
didn't want to pay for the expensive snacks saw this and they were like,
oh, what a great idea. I'm like that, damn right, damn
fucking right. It's a great idea because you know, yes, granted I
had to pay like thirty or no, Donna paid. She's like, oh,
I'm going to bring an extra carry on. You have to pay for
an extra for a carry on. But the amount that was spent to get
permission to take the carry on was nothing compared to how much Yeah, yeah,
totally right. So that thing was packed full of like grocery store submarine
sandwiches. I love this. I wonder if I have pictures of it.
It was so great. It was so great, like it almost was too
heavy to be a carry on, like, oh, that's almost fifty pounds.
Like, I shut up. I know there's a lot going on in
there. I mean, okay, so there's me and there's Donna. There's
seven children plus my oldest two sons. Girlfriends came. So I mean we
were a fucking sight. Oh we we were squatting hard. So Donna is
just checking with the kids. How's the packing going? You know, how
can I help? She's just like cleaning up and she's packing these sandwiches,
and I'm like, who is this woman? I I don't remember, well,
I know I have never even in my marriage, I have never had
a partner like her. I think maybe because the whole Mormon thing, you
just you still expect to do everything on your own because as a Mormon woman,
the kids are yours. Man, that's your fucking mess. I packed
the ship. I make sure everyone brought their underwear. I like, I
did all the shit. And then you know when with my past relationship,
Mary wasn't super involved with the kids, so again that that was all on
me. It was just continuously me doing all the kids shit, which is
hard because there's fucking a lot of them. So so to have Donna who
is like just fucking stepped up like nobody's business, and I kept pausing and
giving your hug. I'm like, thank you, She's she's going, what
are you talking about? Like they like think, thank you for packing the
sandwiches? Did you literally just thank me for packing the sandwiches? This is
the ship of Mormonism. And then being with partners who don't help, with
people who are not partners like you thank them for basic human decency because you're
not even used to that. Like, yes, of course she was going
to fucking do that of course she was gonna come to the funeral with you,
Like those are natural things, but especially as Mormon women, and then
people in relationships that are not bucket filling, like you learn to be grateful
for just the simplest shit that should just be how a person shows up for
you. But because we were raised in a way that, like in the
church culture, your spouse doesn't have to show up for you. You you're
there for them, so yeah, to do fuck all for you. So
even in some relationships outside of the church, you still end up like repeating
that and being with people that can't show up for you, and then you're
like, oh my god, thank you for doing this for me, and
they're like are you are you serious? Like you said, her reaction was
perfect, but you're like all humbled and grateful that she did this thing for
you, which like if somebody thanked you for doing that, you'd be like,
well, no, fucking should I do it? That's what I would
do, But you're not used to being the recipient of any of it one
hundred fucking percent. Donna has even told me she's like, your bar is
so low. I can't just like walk. It's like trot poles on the
ground. If anyone knows horses where they the poles are on the ground and
the horse just trot over, I'm like to do before they learn how to
go on the other one. Yay, look at what she did. Yeah,
the other day, I think I thanked her for having a conversation with
Philip. Oh my god, well, I might justify a thankfulness. I
don't know that that's true. Philip adores her because he's a total dork and
she's a total dork, and it's like a dork and I mean that with
all the love. And they were talking about some kind of mechanical engineering thing.
Nerds. Yeah, I know, I'm like ohing nerds. And later
I'm like, wow, Donna, you like literally sat there for thirty minutes
just chatting with Philip. And Simon was there too. My kid doesn't talk.
You were just sat there and talked to them for like thirty minutes.
And she looked at me like like yeah. She looked at me like waiting
like okay, so now what are you gonna say? And I just was
saying, thank you, she goes for having a fun conversation with your kids.
Yes, thank you, she goes. But you're welcome, but what
the fuck? Look at where we've sold ourselves. God damn it. I
know, I know, I know. Anyway, she packs up all this
shit. We take three cars. She already called ahead and reserved because I
couldn't get the minivan or the the twelve passenger van from Brent because she was
helping someone move that weekend. There's a whole fucking thing, you know.
And I will just say this, and if any of Brent's spies want to
go back to him with it, whatever. Brent was not a fan of
me taking the kids to Utah for that many days for the funeral because they
were going to miss school, and we kind of went rounds on that,
and I am just like, listeners, listen up. If your children's parent
has their parent die, do not try to tell said parent how they can
and can't do what ever with this dead grandparents' grandkids, Like, just shut
the fuck up. Okay, Yeah, so that was stressful anyway, So
we all drove up to Baltimore, the Baltimore Airport, and Donna had already
like reserved some park and ride place so it could be easy to get She's
just she's just she just thinks she thinks of how can I make people's lives
easier? But she does it in a way that's that because so okay,
as Mormon women, we just have to do that shit, yep, right,
like we just we just we serve. But not because we want to.
It's because, like, well, we we just have to. But
with Donna, when it's people that she loves and cares for, she will
drop anything to help. Yeah, and it's and it's not at the expense
of her sanity or the expense of her time or her energy whatever. It's
because she wants to. And it is most it is the most amazing feeling
to be the recipient of that, It's fucking awesome. Well it's new.
You're literally a few months into that feeling. You've never had a person do
that for you, and you're a little over forty So I'm forty nine,
you bitch, So yeah, a little over. I'm trying to help you
out, damn it. But like to be forty nine years old and be
like, oh, this is what someone showing up for your looks like.
Because you show up for people like you have that expectation through church and to
have it not even be obligatory, but it's just like innate for her to
be like that, like mind blowing. It's fucking normal everywhere else. It's
just not normal for us, which is yeah, I know, And again
like this isn't in any way to rip on Mary, just our relationship was
very different. You know, Mary had the way she liked to do things,
and it did didn't line up a lot of the time. And one
of them, you know, was that she didn't enjoy or want to really
have anything to do with the kids. And that's you know, this is
not a big secret. She said that on the podcast before. It's not
like I'm throwing trash out because I'm not. But it's just the truth of
it. And so to be with someone now who actually tells me like it
is so sexy that you're a mom, that you fucking have these humans like
you grew these humans in you is just amazing and I don't know, just
the love and respect for being a mom, yeah, feels so good.
Well to have like a big part of your identity be confirmed by somebody else
and like have a positive affirmation about it instead of like, oh, these
are the fourteen things that ruined your life and your vagina, Like right,
you're just being I remember one time Don and I were hanging out and I
don't know, I was talking about my stretch marks or something that's something.
I was like, oh my god, my stretch marks. And she's like,
your stretch marks are beautiful. It's like the story of what you've done
in your life. You literally brought life to seven humans and the fact that
your body was able to stretch and go back and like multiple times, and
like she sees it for like the awesome thing that it is. I'm not
the man. Those kids really fucked up your badge. Leave it in,
Dad, leave it in. Oh shit, good times. Okay, So
back to park parking ride. So we get there. We all make it
to the airport. And again there's something again about having done around, is
I actually feel like I have help. And I haven't felt like I've had
help. I have felt I mean, I am still a single mom technically,
but I have felt like a single ass mom for six going on seven
years now, and it is hard and to feel like I have an adult
that wants to help, that actually thinks my kids are hilarious. That is
like cracks up. And she's like, I wonder if Phillip's ever gonna tie
his shoes? Like, probably not, she laughs, because she has a
kid that doesn't tie her shoes, Like it's just this thing that we share.
So I was so much more at ease knowing there were that many more
eyeballs, just making sure that no one was gonna die. Oh, and
it sounds like she takes the initiative, like you don't have to ask her
to do the shit. She just knows to do the shit. And that
is a huge weight to take off of a mom because if you have to
ask, you're still doing the fucking work anyway, So thank you. And
if you have to ask and they roll their eyes and it's like you know
what, fuck it, don't do it. Just don't know. No,
I'll do it. Mm hmmmm mmm. Uh So going through the security and
the the suitcase that she got to put the food, it was like a
big ass silver hard shell with like a lock on it, right, and
it goes through the security scanner and it like goes through backs out, goes
through the backs out ot and so of course she gets flu and I'm like,
oh god. And then the guy was like, what's the TSA guy?
What is in here? And she goes, it's sandwiches. He goes
cause it looks like a bunch of missiles. She's like, I promise it's
sandwiches. And he goes, well, I kind of need to take a
look. Can you unlock it? And she's not locked. I don't need
to lock up sandwiches. He opens it. Yes, true, it's sandwiches
and like a billion chips and a bunch of stuff. So we get there,
We get on the plane and again she's just she just talks to my
kids, you know, she talks. She talks to my fucking kids,
and they like her, and they they ask her questions back, and the
interaction could be so sexy. Oh girl, it's like wow. Yeah,
And anyone out there who's listening, who has been in a similar situation,
they get it. They get it. We so we take the first leg
of the flight, we're up in the air, and then of course it's
time to pass out sandwiches. And by the way, on Spirit Airlines,
you have to pay extra to pick your seats, so we didn't. The
yeah, the only seat I did pick was mine. Well, Donna got
her own ticket, but she made sure she was next to me and cassidy
the little ones, so make sure at least the ten year old is buy
someone she knows, and everyone else is scattered. And so for this long
ass flight, we were just wandering up and down the cabin with this big
ass suit case full of sandwiches. You like the people at the baseball games
are like getting your fresh peanuts. That's what I felt. I bet you
I could have sold some of those sandwiches, like for real. People kept
looking in like what do oh hell yeah, because it would have been thirty
bucks if you bought it from Spirit and not as good. So then our
first layover was in Las Vegas. Our only layover was in Las Vegas.
And it was so hilarious because the kids, my older kids, somehow got
lucky. They were near the front of the plane and they just took off.
By the time I got off the plane, they had already lost like
thirty bucksambling. I'm like, stop right off the top. I know,
I go Gavin. Gavin's twenty one now, so of course he's like,
I'm gonna try gambling. Maybe he's twenty two, I don't know. He
goes, well, yeah, I just lost twenty bucks, like in three
minutes. I go. Yeah, that's that's gambling, buddy, That's that's
how get. It's how the devil get. Yeah, that's true. There
was just like a shortly over there, and then we got back on the
plane and made it all the way into Utah and my brothers picked us up.
Mike and Mark picked us up, which was awesome because they've already met
Donna and so it was great. Everyone's hugging. It was awesome. And
we got to the Airbnb where we stayed, and I think I'm gonna I
think I'm gonna stop this episode here. I'm thinking, like we're over an
hour we're in and we haven't even talked about the near fist fight that Donna
got to break up between two of my brothers at the church. Jesus Christ,
there's your cliffhanger bitchess. Oh my god, I'm sweating and I don't
even know why, yo, Because David the oldest, the oldest child,
David the the asshole brother. That's the one brother that you know would he's
always the one that's that there's mm hmmm mm hmm. So yeah, we're
gonna. I love how I started this this episode and I was thinking,
man, I hope I can fill enough time. I haven't even gotten to
the actual funeral yet. It's fine. I'll be fine. I'm fine,
I'll be fine. I'll be fine. Uh. Anyway, so listeners,
yeah, we're this. That's we're gonna stop here with that. Sorry about
the cliffhanger. I will try really hard to get the next episode out like
soon after this episode, so you're not like waiting around and being angry.
I also have to thank you Dan from Extension Audio. Thank you for leaving
it in Dan, those of you who are currently not paid. I know
here I am passing the fucking money plate at the church. But there is
a cool thing that we have called Patreon, and it's patreon dot com slash
latter day Lesbian. Maybe I could be wrong. I'll put in the show
notes, but I have bonus material in there, and you have access to
all the past bonus material. It's five dollars a month and it definitely helps
me like pay for the ship that it costs to you know, do editing.
And you should put your pulpit picture up there. I will, You're
right, I will. People want to know, yes, they want to
see the pulpit lesbians. Hell yeah, hell yeah. Anyway, I'm gonna
wrap this up. We will talk again soon, but until then, this
has been Shelley and Jennifer, not Jennifer Lemon Reeves. We know that's not
it anymore. But Shelley and Jennifer saying steer clear of cults because they are
no joke. Now you say no joke at all, no joke at all.
There we go, There we go,