Welcome to mid Rats with found from Commander Salamander, an Eagle one from Eagle
Speak at Seer Shore your home for a discussion of national security issues and all
things maritime. Hey, and welcome aboard everybody. Glad to have you here
with us after the perst time we've been live in about a month because we
had technical difficulties, had Emma on and then we've had a couple of weeks
off to go take care of business. But now we're back and welcome aboard.
Glad to have everybody on board with us, especially if you're joining us
with us lot, joining us live. I would like to extend the invitation
as always if you want to roll into the chat room. We got nec
rape out and Steve and are also there ready to greet you. This is
one of our ever popular Melee formats, which means my illustrious co host and
I we have our list of things that we want to talk about, but
hey, you might have a few topics that you want to bring in as
well, and we'll just go ahead and dive right into that Eagle one.
Happy made to you. Well, thank you very much. It's it's nice
to be back, Kat, It's good to be live, and we're glad
that we don't have any studio software problems like we did before, So you
know, that's that's our excuse for not being able to do a pre recording
to fix all of our errors. So what you hear is what you get.
The world has not stopped since we did our last Melee format and all
sorts of goodies going on. I guess probably because it's what's been in the
highlight in the headlines recently, though perhaps not hit what everybody else is talking
about. But talk about the maritime aspect of it. Let's chat for a
little bit about a little bespoke capability that the Army of all places did,
and we talked about it when they started chug chugging across the Atlantic and the
Mediterranean to get there. But the Army watercraft, which by the way,
the Army tried to get rid of in twenty nineteen until they were forced to
keep it, actually managed to build their peer and Israeli controlled Gaza. And
I think whatever people might say about the wisdom of doing that or why they
are doing that when other things haven't taken place first, I think you have
to give tip of the hat to the warrant officer, skippers of the Army,
voats and the people between Cyprus and ashore there in Gaza that managed to
get put together, including interruption by a storm. Well done, everybody.
It's good to see that capability actually done in a real world expeditionary uh method.
Yeah, it's been interesting. I'm glad they got it done. And
it also should be a lesson for the Army, the Navy, and the
and Congress, because if it takes forever to get the equipment over there and
in the ocean that is smaller than the Pacific, uh, and the you
know, what in the world are we going to do if we have to
do the same sort of thing on the other side of the world, that
that ought to be a uh ought to be a real big warning to the
people who are doing the planning stuff. Yeah. I think it's also occasionally,
UH, history will be nice to you and give you a hit cappy
on the shoulder, nudge you in a direction it wants you to look that
you might otherwise overlook. And like I mentioned that the Navy used to have
two amphibious construction battalions. Last year we got rid of the East Coast version
of that. Imagine that, and the Army tried to get rid of this
capability, and it's clear that our allies don't have this capability, and everybody
since President Obama over a decade ago announced our Pacific pivot. The only people
that really have started to take action on that, again a controversial topic about
how they're doing it, but give them credit for released movement has been the
Marine Corps on what we need to do to operate west of the International Dateline
in the Pacific. We don't have to reinvent the wheel. We fought a
pretty successful World War there, just outside a living memory. But the islands
haven't changed. The logistics move faster, but it's just as demanding, just
as challenging, especially when you look at what the Marines want to do from
island to island, and the fact that the People's Republic of China has the
ability to reach out and touch you via their conventional ballistic missiles and other means
capabilities, being able to go to places and doing what we've done off Gossam.
It's not just the fact that we need one Navy Amphibious Construction battalion and
the Army have one group of watercraft that can chug chug their way. But
I think, like you said, especially in the Pacific, the distances are
a bear. How do you get there faster? And you need more of
it. You know, having one or two isn't going to cut the mustard
against somebody like that the People's Republic of China. It's a capability that might
not be real sexy, it might not look good on a PowerPoint slide,
but you can also look at I remember after the last Haitian disaster about ten
years ago, we talked about the unique capabilities and phibious forces can bring ashore.
You know, there is also plenty of uses for those capabilities in peace
time, but at wartime you can't reconstitute that. You can't find a dozen
army warrant officers that know how to drive a ship and a bunch of soldiers
who know how to do that. Nor can you reach in and grab a
bunch of of sailors off the street and say, hey, we're going to
teach you how to do this. It's kind of like Riverine. It's a
capability you have to maintain and maybe this will start a conversation. I don't
know, but it is a nice, real world example, and I think
there actually are a couple of ability ways to do this better, but it
just hasn't been funded. So we, as in many things, we have
what we have. Yeah, you know, the Chinese have been developing ports
all around there their uh sphere of influence if you will, and you know
that's there, that's their big deal. They don't they don't get they're not
gonna have to deal with UH and with having to you know, move this
stuff across the Pacific are already out there. The Marines. I think it's
an interesting approach because their idea is we're gonna we're going to run, among
other things, Narco like uh Narco's submarine like vessels in there to resupply and
and allow them to move. And then they have these UH light l S
T thing what're we call those things? Uh to enable them to move from
island to island, know though they look look like targets to me, So
you know, it's it's somebody's thinking about marine seemed to be a little head
of the power curve. Maybe the maybe the idea of some of these uh
you know, l cacts over the rising kind of capability where you don't have
to have a peer system and maybe that will Maybe that says, well,
we don't need to be you know, as concerned is I get what I
figure out, well, how are you gonna do this and that? But
you know, maybe it's the same maybe they've got maybe maybe we think we
have capabilities that are go arounds and not have to deal with like some OFMI
permanent but a fixed a fixed asset. Yeah, it's again nice world world,
real world capability. I guess the follow up question here is how robust
is that to stay in place for exce length of time. I don't I
don't know where such capability has been left in place for an extended period of
time. I guess it's got a capability there, But you also have exce
length of time in that part of the Mediterranean that you could do something like
that. I don't see a permanent peer anytime soon, but if the Israeli
ground forces can wrap things up, then uh maybe uh other other other ways
can be found to bring in this. It's you know, it is a
good lesson to to be thinking of welters. And as I recall, the
med has uh little or no tide issues, so it's not like they're dealing
with a bay of fundi or something in this particular location. You know,
it's It's also I look at the various uh the price US where you live
more than I do, but the various docks that people have for their yachts
and stuff in Florida and and along the US East coast. So you know,
possible just to tow a bunch of those things over there and drive piles
in and and have some kind of floating peer system is probably less complicated than
what we do. All right, Sal, you you see, have disconnected
yourself and you're coming back. I think. Meanwhile, you dumped me out
of the chat room. It's the fun. Can can anybody else chat room
hear me speak? Because I don't. Hello, Steven, can you hear
me? You can hear me? Well, this Sal did something. He
disconnected us. We'll talk about some other things. I think one of the
things we were going to talk about what's going on with the Philippines. It's
important that we discussed that because it is a place where we have an agreement
in place with the Philippine government to if the conditions are right for us to
coming on their side. And the Chinese are getting more and more aggressive and
going after the the the Philippines, and you know they're there now there's a
discussion about them building a new island within the the Philippines Exclusive Economic Zone.
And you know they trailed they trailed the U. S. Philippines exercise recently.
It's a it's a real uh thing to keep an eye on there because
that's a mess. Now, are you back? Well, that's substitute debate
is by all the better? Now? Uh? You still if you wait,
wheel your head around, you cut out every now and then. Okay,
Uh, evidently, uh something's going on here. But I will not
to wiggle my head at all. But I shipped to my secondary net.
Hopefully you're getting at least eight out of ten and of my BIPs got something.
Steven asked a question over a chat just so you know we're actually watching
it. He's some rumors that they're going to cancel the Constellation class. I
haven't heard any of those rumors. I do know that because they went from
having eighty commonality having fifteen commonality, there is some cost increases and delays to
the rate because we just forgot how to build ships. But I don't I
haven't heard anything substainable about canceling it. Uh, and I don't think we
can really afford to it at the stage of the game unless we're just going
to have a fleet of but Arley Berg, Yeah, I don't know,
haven't heard anything either, So you know, I room so I don't get
everybody that don't get everybody stirred up the h And you know, the second
man was in front of Congress recently and they were pinging on him pretty hard
about about kind of like I think they were suggesting that he was not payingful
attention to the the developed needs of the Navy and and the areas of ship
building and and and all that, but was more devoted to climate change than
he needed to be, which he vigorously denied. So it's you know that
I think that that's a good sign that people are actually taking an interest in
what the Navy is up to, and and that they were willing to push
on him a little bit too, and he pushed back. I mean,
we're more credit to him. He didn't. He didn't roll over and play
and play a dead on him. He was he was responding to the to
the challenges issued and you know, but it isn't it is a problem we've
got. We've got all kinds of conflicting forces driving what's happening to our to
our navy and to our maritime industry. And it was it's good to see
that some of the congress people were actually senators. Actually we're actually picking up
a little bit. It's a pretty good article and political about it, which
I won't think too here shart Hey. That was it's good as he is
congressional back like that. We need that. But you know, it's twenty
twenty four. That really needed to start taking place in only twenty twenty one,
because you know, he is able appointee and he's told to emphasize certain
things, but that doesn't mean he should get a pass on it. And
there are a lot of domestic politics that even if he did have to give
a little bit of attention to that, it shouldn't have gotten the percentage of
play that it actually did. I always as a barometer that not just what
they talk about in Congress, but what they put up in the Navy YouTube
channel, and it just wasn't what it needed to be for a long time.
And he he you can tell that he was a little threads there he's
there's probably a lot in election year going on the background. He had a
few strong statements towards some of our the people in the maritime sphere. So
he's turned out, which is good. But there were one little stat that
he really pushed back on it. He kind of stepped on a rake,
is uh, and I'm I'm not interested in arguing the It was about who's
getting how many jabs and stuff, but the topic give it up because there
were thirty five hundred sailors. I think it was sailors and not sailors in
marine. I could be a mistaken anyway, I think it's just sailors.
Thirty one father who was separated because they didn't want to take the COVID vaccine,
and they add an apology and in a way, but they invited them
to come back in and he said that very interesting. He said two of
the thirty five hundred came back, which in my mind really one beg to
question. In two a real open research opportunity for people, whether they're inside
or outside military. So that's two thousand and four hundred and ninety eight people
who said no. Who interviewed those people to find out why they said no,
to find out what the common dread is here. It's because of the
ecity, is that the fact that they were glad we were giving an opportunity
to pursue excellent elsewhere. Uh, it's just really interesting to find out why
only two people came back. That exit interview type of thing, same idea
you do in the civilian sector to find out a lot about where your organization
is underperforming. By doing exit interviews, you have a certain percentage of them
you just ignore because it's pretty obvious hr professionals how to tell who's being bitter
and angle and making excuses. But a sit like this, where the reason
for separation is pretty dark clear, you would probably get a pretty good data
set of honest back and forth from people. When looking at recruiting problems and
retention problems like two did I would not have expected that number to be small.
But I'm just caut optimist ideas well. You know, I think people
get a little mad. They get a little mad that they you know,
they take uh, a stand that's based on whatever reasons they gave, and
they were told those reasons were out of it, and they got then they
got bounced out. You know, I don't. I can't imagine. I
can't imagine that they were not angry enough not to come back, you know,
especially if there's other work available to them. So uh, you know,
it's a it's a that's a that's an own goal as far as I'm
concerned, and on the on the military's part. But you know, they
decided you didn't need those people to begin with. I guess that you said
that message loud and clear, whatever whatever reason, uh you have for for
not letting them back. But it's also good to note that the the Senate
and other people have started to really take the sea power national Maritime strategy concept
uh seriously, and they've also there's a Congressional guidance for National Maritime Strategy which
is out there. We should probably talk about it that a little bit.
Yeah, from we'll try and put the link in the chat room, I'll
put on the uh, I'll put it on the show page for the podcast
for those that are capturing and kept she capturing it later. But it's it's
a nice little digestive document and one thing that the regulars admit, that's y'all
heard us ask years who to our guests and some guests kind of uh,
surprise, I didn't know. We'll go with it, but I'd like to
ask the question people, especially who work in the DC area. You know
who in Comngress is there to have interesting concern And we had on the different
side of the House, we Representative Laura who was re elected last election cycle
and now she's helping Hi I do things better, I believe, uh.
And we also have Congressman Gallagher who is going to be leaving at the end
of this turn, so there's even more critical. There are other ones on
the list, but we have four individuals, two in the House, two
in the Senate. Two Republicans, two Democrats who altered this. You have
from Florida, one from California, one from Arizona. Senators Mark Kelly and
Marco Ruber Rubio and Congressman Waltz and John Gerametti. And it's we were kind
of throwing a put a shade on it. It's not quite a scratch and
sniff document, but it does have large texts, lots of pictures, and
lots of big rafts. It's got and asked us about eight functional pitches that
it gets boilted down to Texas about three, so it's very digestible, but
it had some good stuff on it. If for no reason, it builds
up a conversation. It is written by politicians, so there's political stuff just
have to accept in there. But it starts off strong by repeating because you
have to read it before people hearing it. The fact that the people probably
is trying to have two hundred and thirty times ship building capacity to the United
States. We need a national marine strategy, we don't really have one.
And the fact that we are a mariage in the nation, and we have
nice quotes, but I'm always interested in an action. When most listen here,
they know the problem. They also know that, yes, we have
to have the chief executives go in and put these issues, but cons for
more than anybody else, has to act. So many of the problems we
have could be cure, if not cure, made better by congressional action and
focus. And we have some people do there. And there are three areas
to look at. They have strateiquic objectives and they have ten things Congress can
do. Now of those ten, really only saw eight, maybe I only
saw the three that were but just a teaching objective they had they outlawed there
were two things that uh I said, yeah, co that's you. This
is what Congress can do. A lot of Cutika's objectives, it's furial,
is static, but if you look at action things you can do now there
are third one under a maritime prosperity they had quote revitalized US flagged international seat
through targeted incentive programs and regulatory reforms to make the fleet competitive international carriers.
Quote Congress over to you and under their extra maritime security. Again, my
third bullet that thought was the most germane for conditional action, which is what
they're doing right here and what we've asked for. And you know, Mark
Uh Brian McGrath did his uh tour of the Rubber Chicken circuit and Maryland about
it. But quote encourage public outreach to demonstrate how American building US flag streams
are critical national security and that mad time workers are official unquote. One is
is actually the other one is just getting out there and talking about it,
not just in Conish but our uniform leaders. We've got to get out there
and tell our stories. Is just not very well known at all, especially
where we are relative to our primary competitor. I blame the American public for
being entitled complacent. A lot of them have no idea what happened to our
relative stance in the world. What comes to the preople of good market price
on the open seat because they haven't been told. Yeah, I thought that
the they have ten things Congress can do now, this is good in their
list here, and one of them is develop a long term national maritime strategy.
And you know, have this is kind of interesting, established a presidentially
if wanted position to synchronize all national maritime affairs and policy. You know,
yeah, and if you know, if I were going to carry that a
little bit further, I would take the Department of the Navy out from underneath
the Department of Defense. I think that it's a whole different structure that's needed
to deal with the maritime affairs. And there ought to be a you know,
if you want to call them a czar or whatever, a maritimes are
to get to be able to push these projects through and work with Congress get
this stuff done. Talked about it here, But are as we finish up
the quarter of the twenty first theory, our military is run by actions nineteen
forty nine and nineteen eighty six. It's it's no longer fit for purpose.
There's so much inertia. It's almost as if our procedures and our policies and
our structures are you know, were brought down from the mountains one high.
No, they weren't. They were written by imperfect people with incomplete information at
a certain point in time. And the fer you get away from that certain
important point in time, it wasn't the best pator to begin with. Because
nothing human is, it becomes less perfect, and so you have to put
in patches. You put in an adjustment, and then people start adding things
to them. They become a creche sound. And you know you mentioned bringing
out apartment in navy. Under God, we don't build cars like we did
in nineteen sixty nine in nineteen eighty six, why should we build national security
infrastructure in the same way? Now? Who in Congress has the ability and
have to do it? Uh? That's a are a good question. About
four names we have Plse, Kelly Rudo, and Gary mindy Uh. I
know there are other people who would would help this effort, but boy,
that bureaucracy DC is so big, and people who are vested in present everything
from acquisitions to how the joint chief staff and the co conser developed. They're
their jobs tied up in it. That it's going to have to be some
really special people with really good staff to push it through. But it's gotta
be done. You know. We talked about the cost elation a little bit.
You know, here we are, we thought we had selected the low
risk of of doing a play catch up for the mistakes made with els.
We'll go take uh e euro frigate, put a stamp on it to get
at least trot one light one where you want to call it uh up and
running in production. Hold, we find ourselves a two years later that we
see bureauxy behold of it is. We're building a brand new ship that has
none of the advantages of the previous ship to disadvantage its own, but still
has to be built. That's another evidence that the system we have in place
is not doing its job. Okay, so what do you do if it
won't perform itself from the inside. It won't, as we've seen, it's
got to come from the outside. The only way it's going to come out
from the outside is how it's done before. That's Congress. So yeah,
thing Congress can do, right now that's that's the start. Yeah, well
I would I would hope they get started, because you know, think about
all the maritime interests we have. We have the merchant fleet, we have
the coast Guard, we have a whole bunch of uh folks are you know
now when they're working for Department of Transportation or Homeland Security and something out to
be you know that that is not the way to coordinate your maritime activities.
And uh, it's just it's just a hold over, as you said,
and there's no reason it can't be changed. But yeah, that'd be a
pretty vigorous voice, uh to push that. Speaking of vigorous voices, the
the Iranian Iranian president silicopter crashing as your bite on or someplace, and they've
got a little trouble trying to figure out whether he's alive, dead, or
or even finding him. So it's it's it's not that I wish him ill,
but but uh, yeah, well it would be exciting to see how
robust the Iranian government is. I mean, because we'll talk about how fragile
it is. I don't know if they survive the Green Revolution quote, uh,
they we heal a lot about how much resistance there is in Iran against
the ring of the Malas, but it doesn't seem significant. So how I'm
going to replace him? You know? And one of which we have of
by our system and most of our allies. You know, the American are
the French to stick with? The republics? Are you know? The German?
You know they have a prime minter and a president print Brint degree of
control. But if the US or the Mexican president had an unpointed reaction with
a tree in a helicopter, we have systems in the place where somebody cans
spend within minute and take charge and carry out the planet the place, so
to speak. Other countries do not have the civil society that can can do
that very well. I'm curious whether Iran does. Coming back from Azara,
Jehan that this is one of the stories. With all the attention going to
Aaza and everything people have been saying about what's happening in Daza, where is
all these similar app rage about what's been happening in Nugano Quebak. Basically,
what you Armenians have an already booked to Armenia propper as defined by the Soviet
Union's lines. Uh, It's it's the same thing that happened to the Armenian
exactly. They're not killing millions of them, but Armenians once again are being
pushed out, are being lensed, churches are being destroyed, houses are destroyed,
They're all refugees again. So it was very interesting why they were flying
into Verjeon, whether it's related to negotiating with Armenia or not, as an
intermediary in the case, that would be a shame if Iran was going to
try to do something with it, but I don't think she can be described
as a neutral player. Is Plus the fact that the very population of Iran
proper I could be wronger maybe when you're when you're talking next to Google it,
but I think it's about I mean, fifteen to twenty percent of the
actual Iran the whole Iranian population are ethnic Azeri's, so you know, there
might be other other reasons to go back and forth. But yeah, that
that news had me scratching my head. Uh not that I I wish instability
at ill will on millions of people, but there is opportunity in chaos if
you want to see how resilient that government is if their president is no longer
with the mortals. That would be how they transition and how that new person
is select them how quickly I think be a good tell for everybody who's doing
the Iranian vision of old will win watching. Yeah, it's uh, you
know, it's just kind of a side light of what's going on in the
world. But it's kind of interesting that it happened. Getting back to maritime
matters, the Wall Street Journal on a really good article on the on the
undersea cable vulnerability. We've discussed that here before. I highly recommend people to
take a look at it, and it's another one of those issues that ought
to be covered in the in the maritime affairs or what are we going to
call this new department that I would propose. It can't it can't just be
the US Navy trying to look out through these cables which belong mostly to private
corporations and what they've The reason for the concern is because these companies have been
using Chinese owned maintenance vessels too to repair cables. But now some of those
Chinese vessels of according to a Secretary of State of uh UH, the SB
Submarine Systems appearing appeared to be hiding its specials locations from radio and satellite tracking
services, which officials and the State Department and others said, defid the explanation.
I have a pretty the explanation. They're hiding because they don't want us
to know where they are and what they're up to. Yeah, don't have
to be a claude bearbet to weave in a store of out be subsidized cable
repair and maintenance ships putting all interesting attachments to it all over the globe.
That's that shocking, you know, speaking of Congressional report and how many youth
companies. It's why anybody would trust Chinese to do that. We we kept
wild way out of here and out of most of you know, and he
can't ault the Chinese either. We're going to tee the ball up in front
of and they might as well take out us through and give a spot at
it. That's amazing. There's been a since the North Stream teplosion. There
has been additional interest and attention being paid to the underwater environment, whether it's
pipelines or cables. But as we talked about here before the couple of our
guests, people underestimate in our technological driven era that they think everything goes by
satellites, and a lot does go by satellites, but what's under, what's
outing relatively unprotected across the sea beds in international waters undergirds much of our modern
society, and since war Spanish American War in the late eighteen hundreds, when
we but sailors are shore with some actors to cut off like spaying from this
has been a viable way they wore. And there's perfectly legitimate that once things
initiate, you go out there and you do your best to blind to confuse
your enemy. And it would a lot of people talk about what would happen
if an EMP will But if you don't want to get people excited by using
a new but you want to add MP like Max, I would love to
see a war game. If you take take don't take a hundred percent.
Just say you know, between thirty and thirty percent of the undersea data cables
all of a sudden became inoperable, How impact our economy? How to impact
our ability to communicate with each other, both military and civilian? That I
haven't seen where, but would be an interesting exercise. Yeah, it's a
very appears to be are easier than we probably think to do something with that.
I mean we we've always talked about that the or I've always thought that
the most notable points were where those cables came ashore. But you know,
a deep a d show open deep ocean cut would be a serious from Uh
we all to talk about Randy from from from a scrape. Britain has asked
a question about the what we think about the UK's message is going to build
twenty five new already has apparently committed to buying twenty five building twenty five new
warship type things. Have you have you got? Have you been keeping up
for that? Are you a fan of that? I think I had respond
to one person showed him the money. I want to buy a new druck
every year. But but he's out therefore, I haven't seen where they've they've
made the monetary venues to make it happen that that was great? It would
you know? We also that we're going to build the two Zoomaball class dgs.
We built three, uh, John cinecal on my part and the UK
is they may have a change in leadership and like like Emma said of our
last head rats, the Labor Party has been saying some some good things,
but traditionally they transition from a conservative to a labor government. Don't see a
massive increase in shipping and uh from uh, my understanding is that as far
as worship construction goes, it's almost all in the Gotland. You don't thread
around what I have here in the States. I know you have some pair
facilities and Portsmouth maybe some other places I don't have. I just saw an
article a couple of weeks ago to talk about, yeah, we build it
there in Scotland. So how much support would they have in Parliament for labor
SMP to the left labor, So I don't know whether there they are yeah
more than well, well yeah, the article look at it says that they've
already committed to increase the defense spending up to two point five percent of GDP,
which has been ratified by the government, and that you know, this
is to build at least twenty five new ships, maybe twenty eight ships and
submarines. Uh and you know includes the type twenty six and type of thirty
one frigates which they're going to equip with land attack mistals, so among other
things. So you know, I mean Ward knows that I'm glad to see
that they're paying attention. You talk about a maritime power, uh, and
a country that, with the exception of the chunnel, has no you know,
they're surrounded by water. You think they would be a lot more a
lot less seam lined. So maybe this is a sun that they're waking up.
That would be great because the rest of our NATO partners are land bouts
uh, Germany in France especially and a full in is own steroids, which
is nice to see. I believe they said they're going to go up to
four percent if they have to. So if if the UK can can concentrate
their additional funds on maritime, that would a be natural and be what needed
uh they needed. They need marines and need their army, but they need
to revitalize their their naval uh more than more than anything else. Because our
other allies, uh they're they're few in between and uh but they're they're trying.
But there you know, it takes one to make three, and then
other people they know it takes five make one. I was like, ooks,
fine, somewhere between three in five ships to make more employable that we've
seen in the Red City with some of our allies that have gone there for
the undividuled range time. So yeah, we're going who winds up the next
election. I hope they do follow through. It'd be good for the United
Kingdom and it would be great for NATO. It's good for the UK for
NATO is good for US as well, especially as we continue to try to
put more of our attention towards the Pacific. The Europeans that tea and definitely
a sure are simple one. I have to take more of the burden of
countering Russia until or if Russia ever decides to put an isolated in the European
CONDOMYS don't think they will, but Europe should include The UK have such a
huge advantage in GDP and population over to Russia if they should be able to
take the most of that burden. As we're there is a backup. H
Yeah, I just I think that we I can't. It was it was
it Demo we talked to about about why they should focus on the fleet rather
than the land the land army. I mean, you know, they they've
already been involved in two land wars uh in in the main part of Europe.
Then you know, I think that they stopped the invasions going back to
Napoleon's time because they had they had a powerful navy, and I just can't
imagine that they think that it's more important dump money into the into the landforces,
and isn't the naval forces. But you know, things things happen,
so go ahead. I was just gonna say, in what they do,
the land power would be expeditionary, something you can put on, put on
a ship or put on a heavy lift and move to reinforce people, whether
it's across the North Sea and North Norway or over to the Baltics, because
it makes no sense when you to have to drive through Germany, France and
Germany uh in order to get to somebody further east, when the Germans and
the French and the Dutch and the Belgians and the Poles and the Czechs should
should be there first, whereas a lot of those nations don't have the ability
to project power from sea if for no other reason, you know, kind
of you know, one thing we've been seeing in the last few weeks again
in Europe is Kiel is A is a great naval facility, but good gracious,
like everything else in Central Europe, you're you're under the guns, you're
nearby uh to to the enemy. And you know what we've seen uh in
the last week as the Ukrainians either got more supplies or we're given more of
the leash or both is the Ukrainians are making a mess of Crimea and they've
run out of good naval targets that they're hitting the airfields. And that's just
an untenable situation that you want. Russia wants Sevestipole for the same reason Russia
wanted it during the Crimean War. It's a warm water port, it's right
there. But like all naval facilities, you cannot have your naval repair facilities
and supply supporties under the gun of your enemy. Back in the day,
it was a cannon. Are you know something else artillery from land? Nowadays
it's your drones, your cruise missiles, your ballistic short, short range and
intermediate range ballistic missiles that are very hard to defend from. And I don't
see how any type of substantial fleet can survive around on Sevestipol if the Ukrainians
continue to get supplied the way they are. So, you know, BZ
on the Ukrainians on doing some pretty good seed denial there, which is a
pretty good lesson to take away in the last week. Is like we've talked
about before, I encourage everybody to there's plenty of plenty of maps out there.
Look at the range ring in the Western Pacific and for the Chinese Commissional
list missiles and how many they have, and think about what implications they are
in the likely event that the PRC to an order of magnitude or more makes
the kind of strikes that we've seen in the last few weeks from a very
limited Ukraine against the Russian facilities in Crimea. It's again, it's one of
those little tap shoulder and a reminder it's not the end of the world,
but threats evolved, Threats change, and you have to change your posture to
meet them. Yeah, and a lot of people learning lessons out of the
out of the Ukrainian War. I mean the first the Chinese now are apparently
developing a drone carrier which looks like a pretty substantial laha or somebody. I
mean it's you know, it's a flat deck a large flat deck ship.
And you know, I somebody was talking about, well, you know,
if you can get you see the the effect of massive numbers of drones.
You know, if they can put up a thousand of a time or five
hundred a time, and they can keep moving them up from the welt and
the lower decks to the flight deck, it's going to be interesting to see
what they can do with this ship. And it reminds us we've got all
these ships that are capable of like the the those big flat decks, some
isommer well things for buildings, the Marine Corps. You know, there's no
reason we couldn't be doing exactly the same thing with those assets and making,
you know, converting some merchant halls to do the same thing. And I
think that I when I saw it, and by the way, people haven't
seen the picture. I'll try to link to it in the in the ship
with those who did a podcast later. But I had two things on that.
One, well, how cute, because it is kind of cute.
But two I got mad. I got mad for two reasons because I think
it speaks to one thing that we know and one thing that I think don't
know. The one thing we know is that's a product of having two hundred
and thirty times the shipbuilding capacity that the United States had because the good idea
is very h Somewhere in the pool Republic of China's events said, you know
what, we really should experiment on this drone capability from c where's our spheric
capacity to build this? Yeah, okay, let's let's just design ready to
go and they're able to do it, whereas if our industry we will go,
well, we might have the capability to do this in the physical year
twenty seven because we're too busy. Two. One thing we've liked to tell
ourselves is it's kind of a coping meanism. Is yet the Chinese are a
longer nation. Yes, they have a longer navy than we do, but
we have higher quality and we are more inventive. We're more flexible. That
little drum carrier tells me is they have. And with the Eletmatic real tromagnetic
well gun installation they did a couple of years ago too, there is at
least a total evidence that at least Chinese Navy they have a culture of experimentation
and innovation that's backed up with more than PowerPoint slides. Hey, we think
we can get this real gun to work at sea. Okay, we got
this hole here. Once you go put it on and then nine months will
see what happens. Hey, we have these concepts on operating drones to see,
but we really don't have a viable platform to do it. Well,
back with me next week. I'll talk to my people, will come up
with a design for you. That's pretty impressive that here we are in twenty
twenty four and out of nowhere, pop's this little cute little of the builder
looking a little drone carriership. You know it's tactically viable. I don't know,
but can you go out there, give it to some sailors and go
show me what you can do with it with the flowing drones? They come
back, and then you build something really impressive and two or three years down
the road. That's what it spoke to me. I was a nod of
respect to the to the Chinese Navy me as an indicator they do have a
culture of experimentation and innovation. That's absolutely critical navy to have. Yeah,
they've got there. They fired this rail gun that they have. It didn't
the test didn't go quite the way they had hoped. But you know,
if you fire and you failed, then you then you can make adjustments.
If you don't ever fire. Uh, then what are you going to do?
You don't have any you know, you don't have any you have nothing,
You've got you so and you know, I'll give them credit, you
know that for for a country that hasn't fought ever as far as you know,
at least in recent memory, a large naval uh battle. And they're
you know, they're thinking, they're thinking about how to do this. They
take a good They already know our our limitations and our because they god,
they've hacked and everything we own and they you know, so they're they're building
a fleet to deal with us and and prevent us from doing stuff. Now,
you know, we to to give credit where credit is due. The
the laser and uh other high energy non uh what's the word I'm looking for?
Non kinetic weaponry that we're working on it. You know, that's that's
good, more faster, you know, let's let's get it out there and
and and play with it. And let's let's let the sailors play with it,
and we can find out what sailor proof and what is just too dumb
to work and what is what are good ideas? I just we need to
we need to keep moving, moving, moving that's both in the uniform and
in an industry. And we talk to some of folks in the industry,
and this goes back to that article by Congressman Walt and his and his three
friends when he talked to the Viking industry to do more that they rightfully will
get up at with you. It's like we can't. For these follow up
reasons. In the ten things Congress can do, a couple of things really
stuck out for me that I just want to mention because we talked about it
a little bit. But you know, one of my hobby horses is our
bureaucratic structures for for them was it sounds pretty banal, but the meat comes
afterwards. It says, quote, grow US flagship building capacity and guarantee to
US government cargo during peacetime. Establish new programs leveraging a range of tools such
as tax incentives, enhanced cargo preference, operational subsidy, subsidization, and federal
financing to incentivize companies to shift the products vis US like vessels, with the
aim of growing the US flag international fleets size and carrying capacity, which kind
of flowed together on end of quote. We kind of flowed together with their
point number nine. Point number nine was quote, implement rules, policies,
and resource decisions to de risk the US maritime sector from our strategic competitors,
evacuate and mitigate which US has dependencies on strategic competitors, and prioritize domestic capabilities.
There are things that Congress can do to get those incentives and disincentives to
industry or to remove barriers from them being able to do things that the otherwise
hollowed by regulations, whether they're licensing or their environmental regulations. To take a
brown field and continue to use it like a brown tiel. But we'll let
the regulatory lawyers and that question. But there are things CODs can do.
Now how they can counter some of the executive branches bureaucracy and their rules,
I don't know. But at the end of the day, Congress to control
the purse, their staff will will have to figure it out. So there
are things that we can do. But a communist run country should not be
more nimble than a Merkow republic. In some way, it seems that way.
Well, I think that's always been the one of the arguments that people
make in favor of when they when they people have looked at in favor of
of ruled by one or two people that they are there are sometimes quicker to
make things happen because they don't have to go through all the democratic process that
we do. I mean, it's there the argument in favor of of of
what Hitler and Mussolini did as far as being able to go to war and
the kind of weapons they were developing and stuff, you know, that was
that was one of those uh that same thing with Japan as far as that
goes, you know, they had they didn't have to deal with all the
stuff that we have to deal with in this country. And and I'm glad
we have to deal with stuff we have to deal with, but somebody's got
to wake up and take a look at what you know, smell smell of
roses, smell, take a look at what's going on and get some realistic
plans going. And and we got to do it faster. We can't continue
to put up with you know, everybody at NFC getting a veto on any
or you know, every everybody has an input on what the the consolation clash
should have and all that. I mean that how does that happen? How
do you how do you go from from you know, well, we have
to make it to US specs and we need to add this and it's gonna
be a little longer and all that. I mean that that just makes no
sense to me and I don't understand. And let's tell you nobody l C
is if we're continuing to build well yeah, it's uh I actually and in
a way I'll destend that because we don't have anything else to keep the workforce
employee RP out which again it's it's sad keep meaning maybe I'll finally get it
around to putting it out here. For instance, the we're building those two
smaller hospital ships based upon the Hostiles catamaran design, which is nice hospital ships.
We should get them working weft of the international A line if possible.
Uh. Those can get into a lot of harbors. But out of that
decision made just to be able to keep that shipyard up and running, which
was kind of fine whip and some people there are certain industries because they are
so critical national security that you can't have a complete free market approach to it.
Because there there's no free market approach to indittate warfare. You have to
have these abilities to chorge things. Again, there's there's a note in the
party the proposal from the endors in congressman supply chain is and we have got
to get our head around that. And again that's a military propose. You
should be the ones leading that the China have a very good visibility and what
weapon systems we can't build without them, and there's a lot of them when
you pull the thread on the supply chain back. There's been some action recently
about it. Perhaps not fast enough, perhaps adequate enough, I don't know,
out of the skiff, not on a business but the fact that it
was able to get this bad goes back to the whole state. It's the
bureaucracy process. It is not fit for purpose. And there are some organizations
like CAPE and haven't found anybody to descend, but still there. It's still
if you listen to the cynics, the cynics about it, it's mucking up
the work people policy. Do you get very of Defense, Secretary, Navy
and force. An army will take what they want to have this as part
of their charter, then beats on the executive branch. You're not going to
be action. And until you have a critical mass people in the state in
Congress who decide to want to take this on, then we're not going to
have progress. We have a core group of people, but I don't think
it's at that critical mass that we need. And here are an election here
maybe you have better timelines and data sources than I do. But this election
cycle there is woefully little discussion of national security. This is a a personality
election, I guess. So it's not even a position that we've had in
other ones where ad copeating properties or the vision of what our military needs to
do. It's just a part of the conversation that I hear much. All
Yeah, it's it's. Uh. Sometimes we're not a healthy democracy in the
sense of what we focus on because it's all you know, it's all about
if you're in office buying votes, if you're out of office, talking about
how bad it is to be buying votes. And it's not necessarily it's not
necessarily the best way to do things, but it's better than all the other
What's what Church will say, it's better than the other systems, you know.
I that's that great book called Freedom's Forge, you know, which was
about how Bunky Newts and and and uh, Kaiser. You know, they
they got together when they when America really needed to crank up its production to
become the arsenal democracy. Uh, they you know, they they cajoled,
they talked to their fellow business leaders. You know, we we need almost
need that kind of effort. Again, I highly recommend that book. And
there are probably few people who could who could make that kind of plea.
It's it's I would think, uh Elon Musk, who this eccentric is all
get out, but he gets things done and not always things we need done
sometimes, but you guys get things done. And and you know, we
need more people like that to take this problem seriously. And the trouble one
problem is that they're all internationalists. Now you know that these these leaders and
a lot of these big companies, they don't really get that. Uh.
What's important is not necessarily a relationship with lower slub volume, but but the
fact that you know, without the freedoms of America, the United States gives
them that they're they're not going to be the head cheese if the Chinese,
you know, run them up. And you can just look at how the
relationships with these companies in Chinago, the Chinese demand that you turn over all
your trade secrets, the demand that you if you're if one of your employees
speaks out against the Chinese way, you know, they have no hesitation of
throwing that guy out of the country or put him in a salammorty place.
It is, you know, I don't understand why they don't learn these lessons
from what they've already seen. And a lot of it is that if the
corporations, it's the P and L dividends, it's the executive computation packaged.
A lot of these people they don't really know or care about national security issues.
They're interested in bumping up the bonus and keeping their board of directors happy,
and that's where a lot of decisions are are taking place. And I
used to be a big supporter of doing kind of what Chile did with social
security, where people are able to where they want want to. Uh.
I don't pan of that anymore until we again have changed in compress. When
you look at we're looking at Vanguard, black Rock, other large investment firms,
they vote with the chairs that people have that invest through them and that
point board members. So we have a lot of corporations that are all the
board members are there simply because if we're they're major stockholders. A major stakeholders
are multi national investment firms for lack of the batteries, and they don't really
care about national security. They don't care about anything but increasing shoulder value.
Uh that that individual you mentioned, Musk, say what you will to about
him. Though he's a businessman, he also makes decisions based upon what he
sees to be right or wrong that can't be traced back to the balance sheet.
Kyer was a businessman who did very well make good business, but he
could see beyond what there are simple requirements of the balance sheet. He didn't
He didn't help the German repritir navy at the end of the thirties. We
need something else we need to look at with the citizen. These corporations.
I don't see how you fix interrupty ways. Looking for the maritime version to
do to the Maritimes sister, what Elon did to Rockery. I don't think
that guy. Yeah, well, maybe we can invent him. You know,
usually we've been really lucking this country. That sometimes one that when there's
a need, the right person pops up to do the job. I mean,
it's it's kind of like, you know, a failed sales clerk,
uh and in his father's own leather company becoming one of the best generals we've
ever had in president of the United States. I mean, it's a remarkable
country. We have these people, we have the ideas. I think they
didn't they finally begin this uh McGrath on that committee whatever it's called, that
was supposed to die essentially, haven't they now got that thing going the io
Brian, Yeah, Brian made a week or two ago. I finally got
the final appointments. They had to boost their report July, so I offered
to make some puppy whether they got extended. But yeah, they slow rolled,
but they finally got their They produced something. I don't know. I
don't have to draw Brian a note and see where they're going to be able
to do it or not. But you take if you take that, yeah,
Committee on Mature of the Navy got it close to it within a silver
to find with what Representative Waltz and his friends published, maybe maybe there's a
growing part of the conversation which has got a place we can't we can't just
push out a national maritime strategy and then let's look at it and go that's
nice, and then nothing happens. So you've get to have a critical that's
not just a people but also as priorities. You mentioned Kaiser, other guys
and from Forge. They were the right people at the right time, with
the right backing of ultimately the money, where's the show me the money,
the money and the conversation, which made it the priority of leaders to push
it. And so maybe it's a move that in that right direction. We
are kind of running short on time though, Uh and if everybody is really
concerned about twenty twenty seven it it's closer than people think. Yeah, there's
there's a pretty good they we uh find it again. But the the CFR
Castle Foreign Rations has a pretty interesting piece on why it would be difficult for
uh China to invade would struggle to invade Taiwan. So I'll put a link
to that up just because, and uh, you know, I think we
need to. I think we really need to help our friends in the Philippines
and the because if if if China wanted to go to Taiwan without having to
you know, I mean, the Taiwan straight is kind of it's a lot
easier to get there I would think and to do things from the from the
land side, and if you had part of Luzon or one of those other
areas of the Philippines, you you could really do some damage. Yeah.
I saw a nice video last week. It was one of the bless their
hearts, how can you not want to help these people? But it was
one of those lebe supply boats head now the shoals from the Philippines being asked
for to buy alpwood dozen open single outboard fishing boats. So they got a
big heart, just need big capabilities. But it's not like I didn't want
to know this last week on my substack. It's not your grandfather's Philippines anymore.
There's a lot of indicators that they're going to continue to grow just their
cottage, but also there the sense of national standing. Once they take care
of a few other civil society items. There's a lot of a lot of
potential there. For the one hundred and ten was one hundred and civilion filions
that are bouncing around there in the in the Pacific. So it's abam is
our friends. Yeah, and they're you know, they're a great maritime Uh,
there's a great marittime tradition there. I mean, how many ships in
the the world man by Philippines sailors and uh, Philippino sailors and you know
it's it's uh, it's that is something to keep in mind if we're gonna
we're gonna help any any country. I think we owe it, and we
we've already help them a few times, but we really need to work with
them, uh as much as possible. It's a it's a it's a country
that deserves a little better than what it's had. And I just realized we're
already eight months over our time. I guess we've we've got We've got a
melee done with the month of May. We wish everybody a happy Memorial next
week in uh and come out at the other end. State we do have
on the ninth of ninth of June, which was going to be here sooner
than anybody realize that we're going to have returning guests. Craig Whitlock come on
discuss his book, substantial book on fat lead that is still sending ways through
our navyes. Uh. If you can hold out to the ninth of June,
or if you read it ahead of time and hear our take on it.
That'd be uh, that's what we got coming up next. It sounds
pretty good. And everybody and enjoy memorial. I remember why it exists and
all that all that have a have a have a good week for two and
thank you everybody for mus for another edition. Rats and the next time do
you have a great navy, replied Paddy. All Mike wants to marry me
and a friend of because relieve all you being to blame. Tell hold me
sit folding all the It's a long way to differ. It's a long way.
It's a long way to differ. Eny go bed farewell, livedwell.
It's a long long way to differ. But mylce At pal Meado State Armory,
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