WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:04.120 Welcome to back in your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo, and welcome 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:07.559 to this week's Thoughtful Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking 3 00:00:07.559 --> 00:00:10.679 your Leadership and leave us a review on iTunes. On this leughtful Thursday, 4 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:14.720 I want to play a short little clip that I found online from Gary Vaynerchuk 5 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:18.280 and you and I are both fans of Gary vee. It's about maybe twenty 6 00:00:18.359 --> 00:00:20.920 or thirty seconds long. And then I want to get your thoughts about it 7 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:26.320 because it's a little clickbaity, but I like it, and I seem to 8 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.800 kind of gravitate towards his mindset on this kind of thing. But there's a 9 00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.200 potential other side of it too, So let's listen to that and we'll come 10 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:36.960 ar back. I'm a big believer in hiring fast. I think people overthink 11 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:39.960 it. It's a guessing game. I don't think I've ever checked the reference 12 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:42.560 check. It's not practical. Of course, you're going to put the three 13 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:46.200 people that either most believe in you or love you, and or you prep 14 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:49.159 them to be like, hey, give my back. I think you're making 15 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:51.600 a logical guest to the best of your ability. Based on what you know 16 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:54.960 about your organization and the series of questions you asked. I'm a big fan 17 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:58.759 of of hiring fast, meaning I don't think you should just hire everyone, 18 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.840 but if you feel it, don't need to go through too many more rounds. 19 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:04.920 It all depends on how much you trust your intuition and pattern recognition. 20 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:11.120 I think once you have someone in your organization, you now know the truth. 21 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.079 Hiring is guessing, you know, firing is knowing. To me, 22 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.439 it's higher fast, you know, fire faster. That doesn't mean like be 23 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.799 mean and fire. It means put in the work quickly. If you can 24 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:25.439 recognize something's not working, and if it doesn't work after six months to a 25 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:27.560 year, like you got to go all right, what do you think about 26 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:32.200 that? Hire fast, no reference checks, you know. I mean, 27 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:38.159 I'm a fan of just the intuition from a hiring standpoint. We've talked about 28 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:42.040 this before. I know, we've talked about just hiring in the length of 29 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:44.879 time it takes for somebody to kind of make a decision on somebody you know 30 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.280 that would come to an organization. Because I think that there there is definitely 31 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:53.079 kind of like a vibe a feel if you're in an industry, especially like 32 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.239 in a customer service industry, how somebody presents themselves, how they how they 33 00:01:59.079 --> 00:02:02.359 the energy they give, the confidence they exude. These are all things that 34 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:06.799 you can pick up relatively quick. And I just like that idea because I 35 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:12.360 think sometimes we do over complicate hiring processes with so many interviews and questions that 36 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.960 we just teach people how to be better at answering questions instead of just like 37 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:19.800 assessing whether or not somebody can join the company and knowing the fact that we're 38 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:21.919 taking a risk no matter what. Right. No, I agree with that 39 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:28.039 unless you're promoting somebody from within, there's a certain amount that there really is 40 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:32.199 no way to know till you actually see somebody in the job. The idea 41 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:36.919 of hiring fast and using your gut, I like that. There are some 42 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:38.120 other parts of it, too, which is you have to kind of you 43 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:40.759 have to de risk it a little bit. You can't just kind of throw 44 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:44.639 anybody in there who you want to just because you happen to like the cut 45 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.120 of their jib. You know, they have to have a process to this 46 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:53.560 that is more rigid, that makes sure that you are you're at least slowing 47 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:57.039 it down a little bit and putting some objectivity to it. But at the 48 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.199 end of the day, you're right, it can't be something that takes weeks 49 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:04.000 or months. A decision that should take you know, one or two interactions 50 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:06.280 with somebody to kind of figure out. And obviously, the more you move 51 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.879 up in an organization, the higher the position is, the more gravity there 52 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:14.319 is to those decisions. But in terms of just letting somebody into an organization, 53 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:20.120 yeah, there there's a there's a real benefit to hiring fast and also 54 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:24.840 by de risking that by by hiring fast, meaning if you hire fast, 55 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:30.520 you you haven't put the rigor into this this process that now is going to 56 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:34.159 be looked at as like, wow, with with all this, all these 57 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:37.199 seventeen interviews you made this person go through and they still didn't work out, 58 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:40.000 Your process must be terrible. You know, if you hire fast and you 59 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:46.360 don't put a lot of time or or investment into the process, then if 60 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:49.680 it doesn't work out and you can help a person exit gracefully and go on 61 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:53.680 to the next thing again, that would be fire fast too. Uh, 62 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:58.000 Then that I think you are better equipped to kind of go through this process 63 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:00.000 over and over and over again. You're kind of you're your muscles are kind 64 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.120 of exercised on this as opposed to only you know, going through two or 65 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.599 three times a year, because you've slowed it down so much that you really 66 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:09.919 don't know how to do this without the work of seventeen people involved. Yeah, 67 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.719 and I think there's also like ways to make it happen faster. Like 68 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:15.439 I'm a big proponent of like finding your best people and saying, hey, 69 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:19.079 who do you recommend, Like sure, who do you know that maybe you've 70 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:23.079 worked with in the past, or that you feel would be a good fit 71 00:04:23.160 --> 00:04:26.279 here, like things like that, because it also then helps to bring on 72 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:29.680 people and they kind of have a co sign when they come in and you're 73 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.720 not just necessarily like meeting strangers that don't have any type of relationships with people 74 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:38.480 that already work in your organization. But I agree, like I think that, 75 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:44.399 especially if you're a hiring leader, I would imagine that you've got enough 76 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.120 experience and tenure and you kind of know, you know the questions that you 77 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.240 want to ask, you know the things that you kind of want to filter 78 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:56.680 for. And to your point, it can feel like all of these interviews 79 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:00.959 and conversations are an investment in selecting the right people. But then I also 80 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:05.040 think it, you know, is that really necessary and is it only a 81 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:10.319 few people, especially like those that work directly, Like like, if you're 82 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:13.639 gonna work for somebody directly, they should have input in that of courcause they're 83 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:16.600 part of making this decision. And they're only going to get better over time 84 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:23.959 of making hiring decisions and building the intuition they need by by making calls and 85 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:28.000 then seeing how it works out. And I think that that's helpful in realizing 86 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.040 like, Okay, this is maybe where I thought somebody would work out because 87 00:05:31.079 --> 00:05:35.160 I maybe heard something similar or similar background or some experiences or that type of 88 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:40.199 thing. Maybe I'll ask a couple more questions to see if there's a different, 89 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:43.199 you know, way this can go. And I think that's really really 90 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.639 important to be able to build skill in talent selection with leaders. Yeah. 91 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.240 The second part I want to talk about here is where he talks about firing 92 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:51.920 faster. Now, he mitigates it and says, you know, he doesn't 93 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:55.920 mean, you know, kick somebody out on the curb, but the idea 94 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:59.480 of firing faster, in his words, is along the lines of you know, 95 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.759 don't don't string somebody along hoping they're going to eventually be able to have 96 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:09.560 skills that are needed, when it's clear they don't have the skills or they 97 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.639 can't get there very very quickly. I know a lot of organizations where this 98 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:15.839 doesn't happen very quickly, and it causes a lot of fall out and a 99 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:19.279 lot of damage is done by people, especially in leadership roles, who don't 100 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:23.240 have the skills to be there, and they're there hoping they're going to, 101 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:25.920 you know, kind of magically get there. And so I want to ask 102 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:28.560 you a question about when this has happened to you, But first I'm want 103 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.639 to give it toward for one of our sponsors, Rio Lorenzo. Have you 104 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:34.680 ever been in a situation where someone reported to you and you almost felt like 105 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:39.279 a personal responsibility to get them up to speed or where they needed to be, 106 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.240 even though everything that you were seeing was telling you this is the wrong 107 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:46.959 person for it, but you kind of felt almost pot committed and bought into 108 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:48.279 them, and so you kind of made it go longer than it probably needed 109 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:53.439 to go. Definitely, I think there's that's a part of human nature of 110 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.680 kind of like if you felt that you've made the right call. Maybe there's 111 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:00.319 something that's like that's not connecting here, Maybe there's something that's gone going on 112 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:01.680 where like you want to give them a benefit of the doubt and things like 113 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.360 that. And I've been in those situations, and I think that over time, 114 00:07:06.439 --> 00:07:12.079 which you realize is once somebody and especially a leader, has had enough 115 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.279 time to kind of like immerse themselves in what's going on, get to know 116 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.519 the team, see what's happening, find you know the way to add value, 117 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:21.519 and have enough time to do all of that. If you're not seeing 118 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:28.160 that happen, or if you're not seeing the behaviors that you kind of assessed 119 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.240 for, I think it's critical that you have that conversation and say something like, 120 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.720 hey, it's been ninety days now I want to talk about how it's 121 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.360 going. What are you seeing? What are some things And this is the 122 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:40.639 kind of the types of question that I ask, what are some things that 123 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.600 you've done that you're really proud of, things that you've kind of caught onto. 124 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.399 What do you see as the hurdles that are maybe slowing you down from 125 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:49.959 showing up to the best of your ability. And then what are some mistakes 126 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:53.519 that maybe you've made that looking back on it, you would have made a 127 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.879 different decision. And I'm asking these very specific questions because I'm also trying to 128 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.160 understand and assess, like do they have self awareness? Are they tracked in 129 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.519 the same if somebody says to me, I don't I don't really think I've 130 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.279 made any mistakes. I think I've I've I've you know, done a lot 131 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.040 of Okay, would you like for me to share with you some of the 132 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.879 ones that I've recognized and observed, right Like, we're going to have this 133 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:16.439 conversation, But I think it's it's really fair in that moment to say, 134 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.160 like, these are things that I you know, if you look at the 135 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.839 job description, if we look at what's expected here, these things have to 136 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.759 move very quickly, right Like, like we can't have somebody in a role 137 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.399 where they're learning how to do the basics of the job. Sure, you 138 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.759 kind of have to be able to do the basics of the job. And 139 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.960 then there's like the extra things and and and the the ability to have bandwidth 140 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:39.919 to take on larger projects, to do more types of things. But let's 141 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.960 focus on this and to say things as a leader, to say, like, 142 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:48.759 you know, I I believe and what I've seen that you have the 143 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:52.200 potential to move to move faster here, or to be able to accomplish these 144 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:54.679 things. But I am a little bit concerned that it's taking a little bit 145 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:56.879 too long. So I want to talk about that, like what do you 146 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.759 think is slowing it down? What are they like? Like really having the 147 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:07.399 conversation, having the dialogue, of course building some confidence there, but being 148 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.320 really clear about it to say, okay, so what's the next thirty days 149 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:11.279 going to look like? What's the next sixty days is going to look like? 150 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:15.279 What are some things that you're working on now that we're going to follow 151 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.919 back up on to validate and verify that you can kind of put these these 152 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:20.960 behaviors into action and we can see something a little bit different. And it's 153 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.399 and it's maintaining that dialogue and having those conversations to get to the point where 154 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:30.360 you may have to say to somebody like, it's clear to me that this 155 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:31.919 isn't working out how we thought it, What is it clear to you? 156 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.240 Where do we go from here? What do you think? And and just 157 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:41.399 being comfortable having that dialogue so that it can be about the leader understanding that 158 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.639 this is not personal, and that just because they may be struggling doesn't make 159 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:48.679 them a bad person. But also we're going to have accountability conversations and we're 160 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:50.919 going to talk about it, and we have to be really we have to 161 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:54.919 be honest with one another. And I think that that is the due diligence 162 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.759 that a leader has to have. But you have to commit to the time 163 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.399 and effort to be in positions to notice, to observe the behaviors, to 164 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:05.919 take your notes, and to be really specific about what you're going to deliver 165 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.039 to them, because it's unfair if you just have the opinions of others or 166 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.440 what you've heard, or the team says like, if you're doing that, 167 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:18.559 then you are delegating that responsibility as a leader, and that is not you 168 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.279 know, doing the right thing or building the right culture. No, I 169 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.440 totally agree with that. I think when I've been in situations where I've had 170 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:31.240 leaders who have articulated almost a feeling of personal responsibility to help somebody along or 171 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.600 that maybe you know too much was asked of them too fast, Like there 172 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:41.559 are real hiring decision failures where someone where if you are a leader and you 173 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:46.720 put the wrong person in role, and you own that, you can feel 174 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.879 that sense of responsibility. I'm the one who caused this problem, so therefore 175 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:52.919 I have a responsibility to see it through, and I would just I would 176 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.799 argue that it really is not that you can own a mistake and stop it 177 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.240 from causing further damage and kind of, you know, move move past it 178 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.840 while helping a person you know land gracefully or write a reference letter for them, 179 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.600 or whatever that is. But what you need to be thinking about is 180 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.320 what is the damage being done to your other people who are one or two 181 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.960 layers below this person, who are maybe even if they're not a bad person, 182 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.240 maybe they're a good person, but they're not a good leader, or 183 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:24.879 they're not a good developer of people. How many other people's careers are being 184 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.720 put on hold because they don't have a direct leader over them that's looking up 185 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:33.360 for them or helping them develop and move further on their career. So your 186 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:37.080 responsibility as a leader is not just the person who you think you shouldn't be 187 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:39.679 who needs to be kind of brought along for the ride. Your responsibilities to 188 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.600 all those people they touch and effect to If you look at it from that 189 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.840 from that standpoint, I think it's a lot easier to make these tough, 190 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.399 tougher decisions, you know, quickly, as opposed to you know, take 191 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:52.440 longer than they should. Absolutely and with that it brings us to the end 192 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.440 of this episode. This is hack your leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, 193 00:11:56.480 --> 00:11:56.480 and have a great day.