WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.879 --> 00:00:08.800 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting 2 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:13.919 podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof 3 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:18.039 Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number two ninety eight, Looking Good, Billy Ray, 4 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:24.280 Feeling Good, Lewis Trading places, broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in 5 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.640 Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof 6 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:33.600 Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how 7 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:40.600 to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, 8 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:43.960 Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble 9 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:49.439 host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. 10 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:55.719 Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the 11 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.640 kind of project you are in the goals of the project you are, so 12 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.520 we have you break it down by three categories, micro budget, indie film, 13 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:07.079 market and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader 14 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.560 that used to reading tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for 15 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:14.439 one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof script 16 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:19.200 Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, 17 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.480 HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and 18 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.400 many many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by 19 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:34.359 professional readers, head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. Enjoy today's 20 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.239 episode with guest host Jason Buff. Do you like sharks? Do you like 21 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.079 NATO's? Well, my friend, you are in luck today because today we 22 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:49.040 are talking with Thunder Levin, screenwriter of Shark Nato and Sharknado two. I 23 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.840 was wondering if you could talk for just a second about your experience when you 24 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:59.519 first got into Los Angeles and what your expectation was versus what you actually found. 25 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:06.920 Sure, I got a tala in late nineteen eighty six with my student 26 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:10.560 film in hand, and I was quite prepared to send it to Steven Spielberg 27 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:15.199 and have him say, where have you been. We've been waiting for you, 28 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:19.439 right, That's what usually happens, and that did not happen, to 29 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.039 my great surprise, although I did get a very nice letter back from his 30 00:02:23.159 --> 00:02:27.960 director of development at the time saying we thought it was a very well done 31 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.439 student film, and so then I set about the hard slog of trying to 32 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:37.439 make connections, and I guess it took about three or four years of just 33 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:42.680 sort of knocking on doors before I got my first directing job. And then 34 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.520 that didn't go very well. I was sort of outmaneuvered politically. I went 35 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.840 into it being I guess, very naive and thinking everybody was there to help 36 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.240 me realize the vision and all this nonsense, and no, everybody was there 37 00:02:55.960 --> 00:03:01.159 for their own causes, or at least especially the producers, and so that 38 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:05.759 did not go very well. And so then it was a sort of a 39 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:10.039 case of regrouping, and I started writing more, and it was a long 40 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:17.039 time before before other things started happening, and I started doing corporate promotional videos 41 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:22.240 for a living, which actually is a fairly good living if you can make 42 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.879 it work. But it wasn't what I wanted to do, and so years 43 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:30.240 went by, and finally I was in my mid thirties when I thought, 44 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:34.360 you know, this is ridiculous. We've got to make something happen if nobody's 45 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:37.759 going to hire me to do it. I ought to make my own film, 46 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:39.919 which had always been the plan. It's just that, you know, 47 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:44.639 that was a someday kind of thing. Someday, if things don't work out, 48 00:03:44.680 --> 00:03:49.240 I'll just make my own film and I'll show them. And then finally 49 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.000 I realized, you know, someday. It was a couple of years ago, 50 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.639 I've got to get going and tried to raise money to make an indie 51 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.599 film and did not raise enough, and so that project collapsed. But some 52 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:06.080 of the investors that i'd contacted, you know, who had who had pledged 53 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:11.759 funds, remembered me a year or so later when I had another project, 54 00:04:12.280 --> 00:04:15.599 and now I seemed like, oh, well, he's done this before, 55 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.680 even though we hadn't actually gotten the first film made, So there was there 56 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:23.319 was some recognition factor when I went back to them a year or two later 57 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:26.240 and said, hey, let's let's make this film. We can do it 58 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.839 for less money than that other one, and it's going to be more commercial 59 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:33.879 and all these things. It was just the funding. It was. It 60 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:36.879 was more of a niche a niche film. But I don't think that's why 61 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:41.240 I fell apart. It was a little science fiction film, but I think 62 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:46.199 it fell apart because we were trying to raise close to a million dollars and 63 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.079 I just didn't have the connections to raise that much money. But then the 64 00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:55.040 next film we tried to raise money for, which was a zombie film, 65 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.240 was much more modestly budgeted. We went in saying we were going to make 66 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:01.800 it for a hundred brand, but we would have the option of raising one 67 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:06.040 hundred and fifty, and so we we eventually got to one hundred grand, 68 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:10.120 and we said, okay, we're invoking our option to raise one hundred and 69 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:15.160 fifty because we think it'll be a better film that way. And we raised 70 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:17.439 one hundred and fifty, so it was much more doable and it seemed like 71 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:20.399 it would be much easier for it to make a profit. So you worked 72 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:26.160 as a producer on you're talking about mutant vampire Zombies from the Hood. I 73 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.720 am, yeah, and so I was one of I was, I guess 74 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.319 credit wise, I'm the executive producer on that. George Saunders was my partner. 75 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:38.759 He was a producer, But I ended up raising about ninety five percent 76 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.319 of the money. And so really it was a nuts and bolts from the 77 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.759 beginning to the end kind of production for me, and I learned a lot 78 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:50.959 doing it. I don't ever want to do it again. I know there 79 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:55.959 are people out there who enjoy putting the deal together and working all that stuff 80 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.720 out, that that's not really the part of the business that intrigues me. 81 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.439 Like I like making movies. I like the creative part. I like coming 82 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:10.519 up with a story and figuring out characters and casting and working with crew and 83 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:15.759 cinematographers and sound people and artists and actors and you know, seeing it all 84 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:20.720 come to life. Putting together a deal doesn't really doesn't really excite me that 85 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:25.959 way. Can you talk for just a second about how you were able to 86 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.240 put together that kind of funding? And I mean, I know it's not 87 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.920 the really fun part of filmmaking, But one of the things that I've been 88 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:35.000 trying to focus more on is talking about the non creative aspects and the more 89 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:40.199 business aspects of putting together a film. So can you can you discuss just 90 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:44.759 a little bit about the process of actually putting the film together and raising the 91 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:46.879 funds and what kind of you know, things like did you have to make 92 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:51.560 it at LLC? And the legal aspects of it. Sure what I mean, 93 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.279 I guess the first thing for anyone to remember who's going into this is. 94 00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:59.920 It's a film business, not the film art, not the film crew 95 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.720 aft. It's a business first and foremost, at least to people who are 96 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:08.040 going to be investing, and people are going to be buying films. So 97 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:13.000 you've got to put together a package that makes sense from a business standpoint. 98 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:18.439 So it's not about ge this won't this be a really cool story because investors 99 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:23.079 probably aren't going to care about that. Some of them might, but most 100 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:27.040 of them aren't. Most people who are investing money in a project want to 101 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:30.439 make money, so they need to see that you have some grasp of the 102 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.319 business side of it. So the first thing is to do your research and 103 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:40.360 figure out what movies are selling, what movies are getting made on the low 104 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:44.040 end, and what are selling in the marketplace. And of course the marketplace 105 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:48.800 is changing in the midst of changing drastically. You know, ten years ago, 106 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:53.399 fifteen years ago, it was all about what can you get on the 107 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:58.120 shelf at Blockbuster, And of course that's not the case anymore. It's about 108 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:03.399 how do you get attention for a movie it's on vod or on iTunes or 109 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.240 Amazon or what have you. And the all business really is sort of reinventing 110 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.199 itself right now, and even the studios or are scrambling to figure out how 111 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.639 all that is going to work and how to make money from it. So 112 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.040 it's a it's a weird time to be making an indie film right now. 113 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:24.839 But what we did was to research to put together Basically, we put together 114 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.759 a business plan, and the things we had to include in that were, 115 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:33.200 how is this film going to make money? What you know, what's the 116 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.360 physical process. We're going to form an LLC, a limited liability company. 117 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.679 The investors are going to be the limited members, and the producer and I 118 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:50.240 were the general members, which meant that the investors would only have their investment 119 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:56.120 at stake. They couldn't be touched for any losses beyond the money they put 120 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.759 in, but they would have no particular say in running the company, and 121 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:07.200 George and I would run the company, and we our investment would be sweat 122 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:11.200 equity, the effort we put into making the film. And so then we 123 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:16.559 put together this business plan that would that listed movies that we thought were similar 124 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:20.840 to our film, and we did research on Okay, what is the low 125 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:26.559 end that these investors can expect to make? So we did some research on 126 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.480 similar movies that hadn't done so well, and how much money did they make, 127 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:35.000 how much money did they spend? What's the high end, you know? 128 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.279 And of course at that point what we were all pointing to the high 129 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.639 end was the Blair Witch Project, which has been made for like, you 130 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:45.279 know, sixty grand and made one hundred million dollars, you know, And 131 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:52.120 of course you fill it with caveats like it's unlikely that the film will achieve 132 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:54.879 that kind of success, and your money is at risk and you could lose 133 00:09:54.919 --> 00:10:01.159 everything, and you keep saying that over and over again. We'll be right 134 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:09.000 back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. 135 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.960 To protect yourself legally. But at the same time, you have to paint 136 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.519 a Rosie picture or else why would anybody invest in your moving And what is 137 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:22.399 it about our film? What elements of our film make it likely to succeed? 138 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.440 So, okay, zombies were hot, so it was a zombie film. 139 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.559 We would guarantee that we would get at least one named star in the 140 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:37.320 film. It would be shot in twelve days on one hundred and fifty thousand 141 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:43.120 dollars, so the financial risk were very low compared to the potential rewards, 142 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.960 things like that. And basically, we did some research online and we talked 143 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:54.559 to other people who had done this before, and there are business plans out 144 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.639 there that you can get a look at, and we synthesize the best elements 145 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.480 from a bunch of different business plans that we looked at, and we got 146 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:07.639 distribution charts from the Hollywood Reporter and from what is a box office Mojo and 147 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:11.519 a bunch of these other things to show how similar films had performed. We 148 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:16.720 put together a budget, We put together a cast list of the kind of 149 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.080 actors we thought we would be able to get for the money we had. 150 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:26.320 We put together a schedule of how the investors could expect to see things proceeds. 151 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.399 So, okay, once all the money is in, it'll take this 152 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:35.279 long to prepare and cast the film, and this long to shoot it, 153 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.879 and this long to do post. And from the time it's finished in post 154 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.480 until the time it's out on DVD, we'll take about this long. And 155 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:46.279 once it's out on DVD, how long do we expect it to take to 156 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.080 recoup its money? And then, of course there was the business side of 157 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.360 all. The way we structured it was that all funds that came in from 158 00:11:54.399 --> 00:12:01.320 sales of the film would go to the investors first. We wouldn't get anything 159 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.480 until the investors had recouped one hundred and ten percent of their investment. So 160 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.159 that was sort of their protection that we weren't sort of going to run off 161 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:13.360 with the money or anything. The investors had the rights to audit the books, 162 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:18.799 things like that, so we set it up to protect the investors as 163 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:24.919 much as possible to give them first position. Ah actually was second position, 164 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.639 after any debts that the film might have incurred, And did you have a 165 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:33.159 distribution model in place at that point. We did not have a distributor signed. 166 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:37.879 We had a couple of distributors at that point that we had individually worked 167 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:41.679 with before, I had experience with before, and so we mentioned them and 168 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:46.679 said that the film will be taken to these distributors and to others. At 169 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:50.519 the time, we felt like we could probably get a better deal on the 170 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.759 distribution end if we didn't pre sign with an investor. In retrospect, that 171 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:01.240 was probably a mistake, but we felt that any investor looking at our script 172 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:07.440 and our little package with filmmakers who were essentially unknown, would not give us 173 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.320 a very good deal, but that if we went out and made a really 174 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:16.000 good movie, then we could command a higher price in retrospect. It probably 175 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.240 would have been safer. It probably would have been better to take the safer 176 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:24.759 deal and make a deal upfront. We did have a couple of distributors who 177 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:31.679 expressed some interest upfront, and that would have at least guaranteed a certain a 178 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:35.120 certain minimum income for the film. Right now, can you talk about what 179 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.279 it feels like as a director to walk onto the set for the first time. 180 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:43.720 I mean, I know you had directed other things, but this was 181 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.080 probably the biggest thing you had directed at that point. Right I'm not sure 182 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:52.200 it wasn't necessarily the biggest. It was the first film where I essentially had 183 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:58.480 creative control, and so that was a big deal for me. And it 184 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:03.399 was certain the first film that I was solely responsible for from beginning to end. 185 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:09.320 And it was interesting because in my position, I'd been telling people for 186 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.799 years and years that I was a great film director, but really had no 187 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:18.559 way to prove it. You know, it was just you got to take 188 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.159 my word for this. I can see it in my head. I know 189 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.399 what you know, I know what it's going to be like, it'll be 190 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:28.279 great, you'll see and so in a way, when things didn't go terribly 191 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:33.279 wrong in the first hour of shooting, it was just sort of a great 192 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.519 vindication for me. That shoot actually ended up being probably to this day, 193 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.320 the best film set I've ever been on. I spent a lot of time 194 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.200 putting the crew together and interviewing people, and people were getting paid, you 195 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.159 know crap. I think most people were making one hundred bucks a day. 196 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.799 But I spent a lot of time interviewing people and making sure we had people 197 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:58.240 who were going to be really excited about doing it. Everybody was essentially moving 198 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:03.720 up a step or getting their their break, getting into the business at the 199 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:09.320 entry level, or you know, like the cinematographers or people who had not 200 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.519 shot features before. But it shot really good short to really good music videos. 201 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:18.200 That was a kind of people we were looking at. Costume designers had 202 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.519 only been an assisting costume designer things like that, so everybody was looking at 203 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.440 this film as a really good opportunity for them, even though they weren't making 204 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.679 much money. So we had we had really good spirit on the set. 205 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:35.519 Everybody got along really well. There was a great sense of community and we 206 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.080 were all just really working hard to make this thing the best it could be. 207 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:43.960 And so my experience on the set as a director, there's an hour 208 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:50.200 of sheer terror at the beginning of the shoot, where, oh God, 209 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.600 do I know what I'm doing? Is everything going to fall apart? Are 210 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:56.519 all the pieces in place? Or is this going to be an utter disaster? 211 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:00.960 And once you get past that, and for me actually that that's kind 212 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.080 of a daily thing. I mean, I've directed several features now, and 213 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:07.440 every morning I feel the same way until the first shot is in the camp 214 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.720 and then everything is fine. But that that shoot, that it was just 215 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:17.919 a wonderful sense of vindication. It's like, finally I was doing what I 216 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.080 was supposed to be. You know, this proved nut. It was less 217 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:26.559 about proving to other people, and it became a confirmation to me that what 218 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:32.240 I've been saying all these years was actually right, and that this was what 219 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.399 I was meant to do, and that here was a place where I was 220 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:40.480 at home and I didn't have to count ow to people who didn't know what 221 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:44.159 the hell they were talking about, and I didn't have to support somebody else's 222 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:48.519 vision. I was doing what I was supposed to do and it was working, 223 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.440 and so that was a very powerful sort of reaffirmation for me. And 224 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.559 then when the shoot went so well and everybody got along so well, and 225 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:03.119 despite doing it on an utterly insane schedule, everything worked out. It was 226 00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:08.400 It was just the most wonderful, wonderful thing. And to this day, 227 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.720 I'm very proud of that film. I mean, you know, it's a 228 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:17.480 low budget zombie horror comedy and it's it's silly, and it's you know, 229 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:22.960 it doesn't look like a million bucks, but I'm really proud of it for 230 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:25.680 what it was. I think it was a great film, and I will 231 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:30.160 put that up against Shaun of the Dead or Zombie Land any day. It 232 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.480 doesn't it doesn't have it doesn't have quite the production value of Zombieland, but 233 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.039 I think the characters are just as engaging, if not more so. I 234 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:44.039 think the story carries you along. Very few people have really seen it, 235 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.519 but the comments that we see on the various internet forums when people actually do 236 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.240 watch it, I'd say ninety five percent of them really really get into it. 237 00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:00.400 All the comments we've had have been very positive. So it was it 238 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.000 was a great experience from the beginning. Then except for the fact that it 239 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.960 hasn't turned a profit yet. Now, as a Spielberg fan, how was 240 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.160 it? Was it kind of cool working with c Thomas Howe. Did you 241 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:15.799 ever like talk to him about what it was like working on ET or anything 242 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:19.079 like that. Yeah, yeah, we uh, we had a few conversations 243 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:25.599 about that. He had. Tommy has stories about everything because he's not only 244 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:29.839 has he been in the business since he was a kid, but his father 245 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.720 and even his grandfather, I think we're both in the business as stuntmen. 246 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.599 So he grew up in Hollywood and he has a lot of great stories. 247 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.759 And I remember one that he was talking about was that Spielberg had a trailer 248 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:48.240 on the set that was filled with pinball machines and video games and stuff, 249 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.680 and so so you know, in between shots, the kids were all in 250 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.920 there and it was basically like their own portable arcade and they just had a 251 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.440 blast playing games while the crew was, you know, setting up the next 252 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:00.920 shot. When you get on a set, who are the people that you're 253 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:06.440 really relying on that you kind of lean on throughout the day? Right? 254 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.440 Well, for me, the main collaborator on a film is the is the 255 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:17.039 cinematographer, to me, that's that's the most important working relationship on a film 256 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:19.640 for a director. The other one, of course, is the first the 257 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:23.920 first AD, because he's the one who really runs the show. A lot 258 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:30.319 of young directors from films coming out of film school or just you know, 259 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:36.200 people who want to want to make movies, they don't realize just the extent 260 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:41.200 to which they are not in charge. The director, especially a good director, 261 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:47.119 if he knows what he's doing, he will allow the first AD to 262 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:51.359 do his job. And his job is running the set. And you know, 263 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.720 you need to have your vision, you need to know what you're doing 264 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.920 and what's coming next. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor 265 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.119 and now back to the show and be able to express that clearly. But 266 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:14.400 the first AD is the one who's really sort of directing the troops. And 267 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:18.799 if he's good at his job, if or she is good at If the 268 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.519 first AD is good at his or her job, it frees up the director 269 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.119 to not have to worry about a lot of that stuff and to focus on 270 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:33.079 working with the cinematographer and working with the actors, and those for me, 271 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:38.319 those are the key relationships. The cinematographer is going to be translating your vision 272 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.640 onto the screen, so you have to have a good relationship with your DP. 273 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.240 For me that I've always started working with my DP at the very earliest 274 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.160 stage that I can. I'd like to have my DP in the room when 275 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.039 we're doing storyboards if I'm doing storyboards. In fact, for me, the 276 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.720 best situation is if my DP is also an artist and can do the storyboards 277 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.440 himself. So we'll sit in a room and we'll go through the script and 278 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.440 I'll lock out my vision and what I think the shots will be, and 279 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:14.599 I'll describe them to him, and maybe i'll draw stick figures, and then 280 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.359 if the DP can draw, he will do storyboards because I can't draw to 281 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.440 save my life. So I'll draw a stick figure of what the shots should 282 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.039 be, and then he'll look at it and go what the fuck is that? 283 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.440 And I will explain it to him and he's say, oh, yeah, 284 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:30.920 I don't look like this, and he'll draw it out, or we'll 285 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.880 have a storyboard artist in the room with us who will draw it out. 286 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:37.599 And then maybe the DP will make a suggestion, well, what if we 287 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.319 DiPT it from this slightly different angle, or what if we move the camera 288 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.759 here. I like to collaborate with my DP as much as I can, 289 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.720 so that really the way the film looks becomes kind of a shared vision. 290 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.079 And that way, when we get on the set, I don't need to 291 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.920 explain anything. He knows exactly what it's supposed to look like, exactly where 292 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:02.559 the camera's supposed to go, exactly where he wants the lights to go, 293 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.480 so I don't need to worry about explaining that to him. All we'll need 294 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:12.400 to do is adjust for you know, those situations where the location or the 295 00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:18.200 set requires that something be changed from what our original plan was, and then 296 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.640 we'll figure that out together, and then he can worry about all that, 297 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:26.599 and I can go work with the actors on their performance and they're blocking and 298 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.000 so forth. So for me, the most important relationship is between the director 299 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.640 and the DP. Then between the director and the AD that's got to be 300 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.519 a working relationship. You're not too concerned about a creative relationship there, but 301 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.039 you've got to be able to get along and he's got to be able to 302 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:47.119 understand the way you work. If there's friction between the director and the first 303 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.440 a D, things tend not to work very well. And I've experienced both 304 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:56.240 of those where I've had really great relationships with my ad and not so great 305 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.920 relationships, and life is a whole lot better than the director in the idea 306 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:04.119 get along. And then the other key, the other key relationship on a 307 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:10.799 set, And this was something that maybe surprised me a bit in the early 308 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:15.200 days, was the relationship between the director and the star, especially in these 309 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:21.519 low budget films where you have just one name actor, and that actor has 310 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:29.119 a lot more a lot more cloud on set than some directors might like because 311 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:33.079 probably he's the reason your film got funded, and he's the reason your film 312 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:40.039 is gonna get distributed, and he knows that. So having a good relationship 313 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:45.559 with your star where you're both working towards the same vision is really crucial because 314 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.480 if you get on if you come into it with different visions and he is 315 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:56.200 pushing to get it his way and you're pushing to get it yours, and 316 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.359 he has a certain level of control because you know you can't physically make him 317 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:06.000 do something he doesn't want to do, that that can become an awkward situation 318 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:10.519 too. So making sure that you and your star are on the same wavelength 319 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.000 and that you both see at least his character the same way can be very 320 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:22.559 helpful, and the star can become a great ally too, because on a 321 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.400 low budget indie film where you're trying to shoot the film in ten or twelve 322 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:32.440 or fifteen or reason twenty days, you really don't have time to do the 323 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:37.160 kind of dramatic work with the actors that you'd like to do, and so 324 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:41.720 your star, if he really understands his role and you guys are on the 325 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:48.200 same page with it, he can then become a very helpful force for working 326 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:52.559 with the other actors as well, because one would expect in an indie film, 327 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.839 especially in a B movie, where you tend to be casting someone in 328 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:03.160 the lead who has probably already had a career and has been doing it for 329 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.799 a while, because those are the people who will sell a low budget moving 330 00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.359 Did you ever find yourself maybe overdirecting or doing things that they didn't really need 331 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.799 you to do, or did you learn no, Just the opposite, in 332 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.400 fact, is that you can actually do less because they know what they're doing, 333 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.640 and they can also pass along their experience and their their years of wisdom 334 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:27.640 to the less experienced members of the cast. Because on a low budget indie 335 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:32.000 film, You're probably going to have a lot of actors who haven't done this 336 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:36.799 as much, right, and so having a good relationship with your star he 337 00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:40.519 can sort of carry some of that burden for you, and he can talk 338 00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:44.400 to some of the actors about what they're doing and the little the little techniques 339 00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:48.559 of acting that he's picked up in his years of experience that will help them 340 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.920 do what you need them to do, you know, And you've you've got 341 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.319 to You've got to balance that by making sure that everybody in stands it, 342 00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:02.680 understands that you're in charge. And a good star, uh gets that, 343 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.079 and he won't question you publicly. You know. I had a moment at 344 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.480 a moment on one of my films where you know, now I don't even 345 00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:15.480 remember what it was, but it was it was a case of the star 346 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:18.960 sort of questioned something, you know, and I took him aside. And 347 00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:23.640 he was a guy who who you know, made dozens of films and it 348 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.720 had a very successful TV series, and I had to take him aside and 349 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:33.400 say, look, you know, we can we can talk about this as 350 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.519 much as you want. If you don't like what I'm doing, we can 351 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:38.799 we can work it out together, but you can't question me in front of 352 00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:42.480 the rest of the cast and crew. And he was like, you're absolutely 353 00:26:42.519 --> 00:26:47.359 right. I apologize for that. And then when you were shot and we 354 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:56.279 had a very good and yeah, we we were literally out in the middle 355 00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:59.400 of the jungle and we did not have a stunt coordinator on that film, 356 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.480 and Adrian Paul kind of took over that role for us, and he would 357 00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:08.839 help the other actors with the physical stuff that they needed to do thanks to 358 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:12.799 all his experience, you know, on Highlander, mainly because you know, 359 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:18.279 he spent several years doing endless fight scenes and stuff, so he was really 360 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:23.359 good at that, and he was able to help the other actors in ways 361 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.519 that I probably would not have been able to. And even if I had 362 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:30.720 been able to, I certainly wouldn't have had the time because there's so many 363 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:37.559 things. I've often said that directing a feature film is probably the most all 364 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:42.440 encompassing, intense experience that a human being can have, short of going to 365 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:47.519 war. There are so many things that you have to keep in your head, 366 00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:49.759 so many things going on at any one moment aren't doing what I need, 367 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:52.759 and I would have had to go back and talk to them and there 368 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:57.440 would would have cost more time. But actually my star was talking to them 369 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.240 and was bringing them along. And especially if you're working with if you're doing 370 00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:04.519 an action movie, as most of the might have been, and your star 371 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.200 is someone who's done a lot of action work before, then he can also 372 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:15.359 be very helpful with the physical stuff. Both see Thomas Howe on Mutant Vampire 373 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:21.240 Zombies and also Adrian Paul who is my star in AE. You know, 374 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:25.000 they both had a lot of action experience and so they would they would help 375 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:27.920 the other actors. Okay, here's how you here's how you might want to 376 00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:32.359 run through this scene. Yeah, we're running through the jungle. Well, 377 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:36.640 how are we going to make sure we don't trip and fall over this? 378 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:41.920 You know? Vine here, there's a lot going on, And it's a 379 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:48.400 funny thing to think about how much time it takes to simply be able to 380 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:51.559 run through a patch of jungle. This is something you don't think about when 381 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:56.799 you're watching an action film, But simply being able to run through the jungle 382 00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:03.359 for a hundred feet without tripping on something thing is harder than you might think. 383 00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.440 And so having somebody with a certain level of experience at that kind of 384 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.920 thing, how do I slide down this hillside without falling over and breaking my 385 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:17.400 ankle? That that can be very helpful, especially when you don't have a 386 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:22.400 huge stunt team, you know, working with everybody on one of these films. 387 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.839 You're you're lucky if you have a stunt coordinator at all, much less 388 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.559 a whole stunt team to work with each of your ten different actors in a 389 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.680 scene that are you were responsible for. That it can really get overwhelming, 390 00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:41.200 and you tend to develop a tunnel vision to a certain extent. And I 391 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.559 know it happens for me that I am totally focused on the moment we're putting 392 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:49.079 in front of the camera, and if somebody asked me about another moment in 393 00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:52.839 the film, I'm like, what, huh, there, there's another moment. 394 00:29:55.400 --> 00:30:02.400 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to 395 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.160 the show, and I'll have to like make a physical, conscious effort to 396 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.279 change my focus and think about this other thing that needs to be addressed. 397 00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.799 Yeah. So on Ae we were out in the middle of the jungle in 398 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.079 Costa Rica. There's very little film infrastructure there, and what there is is 399 00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:26.599 based in the capital of San Jose. So the people there are San Jose's 400 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.960 just a city like La people there have no more experience working in the jungle 401 00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:37.039 than anybody here would. So even our quote unquote local crew was still out 402 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:42.279 of their element. So yeah, Adrian was very very helpful on that production 403 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.119 and it was it was great working with it. Now, why was the 404 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:49.559 decision made to shoot in Costa Rica? Is that just because the screenplay or 405 00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:55.880 was there some sort of financial incentive for shooting there? That was actually a 406 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:02.240 weird, a weird situation. That decision was made the partners at the Asylum 407 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.240 that was an asylum film, and they had shot several films in Beliez, 408 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.400 which honestly is where I expected to shoot the film, but they wanted a 409 00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.599 different look because most of their jungle films had been shot in Beliezed, and 410 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:22.880 so they started looking around at different places where we could shoot a jungle film. 411 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.200 And we were talking about the Dominican Republic too, and we were talking 412 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:32.480 about Puerto Rico, and I was kind of interested in Puerto Rico because I 413 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.960 had another project, an indie project that I'd been developing that I thought we 414 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.599 would probably shoot in Puerto Rico because it needed both jungle and a Spanish colonial 415 00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:47.039 city, and so you got both of those in Puerto Rico. Plus they 416 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:49.720 speak English. Plus it's close to you asked you know there are no import 417 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:53.559 restrictions or I think because it's part of the US and it's so close by 418 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:57.640 playing that you could fly equipment in and stuff. So Puerto Rico was interesting 419 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:02.039 to me. But they decided that Puerto Rico was probably going to be too 420 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:07.599 expensive, and I think there were union issues there too, so they were 421 00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:12.400 looking at Dominican Republic, and then Panama got into the mix, and then 422 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:16.920 finally the decision to shoot in Costa Rica. Oddly enough, was made for 423 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:23.039 two reasons. One was that one of the partners at the Asylum, his 424 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:29.119 father I think, owns a house in Costa Rica, and so somehow that 425 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:32.319 made it better. I guess they just had a connection there. And then 426 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:37.240 they got in touch with a local production company in Costa Rica who kind of 427 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:42.480 sold them on shooting there. And as it turns out, it might have 428 00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:45.880 been a mistake because it turns out that Costa Rica is not an inexpensive place, 429 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.799 and we were there during prime tourist season and there was no local crew 430 00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:57.559 in the jungle. So even the quote unquote local crew we were hiring all 431 00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:00.759 had to be transported from Santos. They all had to be put up in 432 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.599 hotels. You know, normally think, well, we're going to hire a 433 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:07.599 local crew, they'll just be living at home and they'll come to the set 434 00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:13.079 every day. But it wasn't like that. So the expense of shooting in 435 00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.359 Costa Rica and everything's very expensive there. It's not. It's not this third 436 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:20.720 world, you know, a country where you can hire a labor for ten 437 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:25.920 cents an hour or something. What little film production there is there was mostly 438 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:34.519 TV commercials and an actual Costa Rican television programs, so they were all used 439 00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:39.000 to working sort of a normal day in a studio setting and getting paid decent 440 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:44.640 rates. And we were coming in with this crazy low budget film that was 441 00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:45.799 going to be shot out in the middle of the jungle, and we wanted 442 00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:52.799 people to work for what to them was very little, and so it was 443 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:57.519 Costa Rica actually was a wonderful place, but from a production standpoint, it 444 00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:00.440 actually kind of worked against us and it ended up costing a lot more than 445 00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:05.200 anybody expected. But it was beautiful. When you're shooting in the jungle. 446 00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:07.320 How do you scout out locations? Do you just kind of say, okay, 447 00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:10.639 well here's a river and we can shoot it like this, I mean, 448 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.440 is there are you shooting it kind of in the same area or do 449 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.440 you do you have like a location manager there that's dealing with that sort of 450 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.559 thing. Yeah, it's funny. We didn't have an actual location scout. 451 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:28.920 We hired a tour guide who basically took people, just tourists on tours, 452 00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.400 and we hired him to show us all these places, you know, And 453 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:36.719 so during preproduction he took us around. We needed a waterfall, we needed 454 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.519 a river, we need a dense jungle, we needed an open clearing. 455 00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:45.159 So he took us around to a bunch of waterfalls and rivers and things like 456 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:49.840 that that he knew about. But yeah, we all we had to get 457 00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:54.559 it all in one basic area because we couldn't afford time wise or money wise 458 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:59.760 to be traveling all around the country. And we were fortunate we found this. 459 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.599 I guess it was a plantation. I guess it was a I'm sure 460 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.079 it was a coconut plantation. I forget what they were growing there, but 461 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.719 there was this plantation where a part of it was cultivated, and then part 462 00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:15.039 of it was just wild jungle, and they happen to have a cave which 463 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:17.079 we needed, and there was a river on their property, and so we 464 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:22.320 talked to the owners of this land and we were able to end up shooting 465 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.719 about eighty percent of the film on this one plot of land where we had 466 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:31.840 most of the things we needed. And that really saved us because before we 467 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:36.760 found that we were going to be moving around constantly, and that would have 468 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:40.599 just cost way too much time getting to new locations each day and setting up 469 00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:44.920 all over again. And you know, the producers kept saying, well, 470 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:46.719 it's it's a jungle country, just pull over to the side of the road 471 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.199 and shoot. And it was like, no, you can't do that. 472 00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.840 For one thing, at the side of the road that the jungle was so 473 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:57.599 dense that you literally couldn't get into it. You would have had to hack 474 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:00.320 your way in with a machette. You know, you want you want the 475 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:05.880 actors to appear to be running through dense jungle, but it's virtually impossible to 476 00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.440 get your equipment in and shoot that way. So you need a place with 477 00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:15.400 paths and roads and and and dirt trails and stuff where you can get to 478 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:21.199 places that look like they're in the middle of the jungle but are actually easily 479 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.199 accessible, and you know where where are fifty people going to sit down and 480 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.840 have lunch on their break and how are you going to run electricity in? 481 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.000 And where are you going to lay dolly track and all this stuff. So 482 00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:36.800 shooting in dense jungle is pretty tricky, but we were lucky in it. 483 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:40.159 We found a lot of beautiful locations very close to each other. But the 484 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:44.320 days where we had to move and go to a different location, like we 485 00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:50.880 did for the waterfall, it was it was pretty hairy. And finding all 486 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:54.639 these things because they were they were widely spaced, was was tricky too, 487 00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:00.079 but it all worked out. Was your DP working with like big five K 488 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:02.400 lights and things like that outside or did you try to use mostly natural light 489 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.079 when you could, No, it was mostly it was mostly natural light. 490 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:12.159 In fact, one of the interesting things was we had this scene inside the 491 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.719 cave that was supposed to be lit by glow stick you know, these chemical 492 00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:22.239 light sticks, and at a certain point we decided to just light it with 493 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:27.440 glow sticks, and we bought the brightest glow sticks you could find, and 494 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.119 we wrapped a bunch of them together, and we actually shot one scene where 495 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:35.599 they're walking through this dark cave lit entirely by glow sticks, with people holding 496 00:37:35.639 --> 00:37:37.159 them near their face and stuff. So that was kind of cool, you 497 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.960 know. No, we had we had a very minimal lighting kit and we 498 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.400 were really only using it. I mean, you know, he'd set up 499 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:47.519 a backlight occasionally, but we were in the jug. When we were outside 500 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:52.400 in the jungle, we were mostly using available lighting because it was a matter 501 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.480 of well, where are you going to run power from? Can we get 502 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.800 a generator into this place we were there? There were there were days were 503 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.840 the only way to reach where we were shooting was in a four wheel druct 504 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.440 pickup truck. There was no way to get a grip truck there, so 505 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:13.440 transporting a lot of equipment just what wouldn't have been practical. So a lot 506 00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:16.519 of that film, the vast majority of that film was shot with available light 507 00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:21.639 and reflectors, and every once in a while we'd set up a couple of 508 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:27.480 couple of lights here and there, and then inside the cave where we needed 509 00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:30.880 actual light. That was that was one day where we brought in a generator 510 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:36.280 and we had to do a real lighting setup. And then there was some 511 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.840 stuff that we actually shot in the city. You know, there were sets 512 00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:44.159 and buildings and so forth, and those we had lighting, but that you 513 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:46.719 know, we weren't in the jungle there. We were in a controllable situation. 514 00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:51.719 Now, can you talk for a second about how you developed a relationship 515 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:55.280 with the Asylum and how you first met David Lott and those guys. That 516 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:00.719 was a very slow process and it wasn't intentional. I met the Lapp before 517 00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:05.760 the Asylum existed. Basically, I had had a day job that I won't 518 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.599 even mention what I was doing because it's so embarrassing. But while I was 519 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:14.840 there, I made friends with this woman who was a talent manager, and 520 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.360 she knew David. I don't really know how she knew David, but she 521 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.880 knew David Latt. They were friends, and so eventually she introduced me to 522 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:28.239 him and we started talking and nothing came of that. This is actually, 523 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:32.800 I think one of the most important lessons for somebody coming out to Hollywood to 524 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.320 try and get into the business is to just meet as many people as you 525 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.119 can, because you never know what's going to turn into a great connection. 526 00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.760 So I met David Latt, and I just knew him. He was just 527 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.559 somebody I knew, and we would talk every once in a while when we 528 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:54.199 were visiting with our mutual friend. I didn't really time with him on my 529 00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.920 own per se. I mean, my girlfriend and I were invited to his 530 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:07.400 wedding. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now 531 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:13.079 back to the show, you know. And on on and off over the 532 00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:17.280 years we'd be in contact. Um, maybe we'd go to parties, the 533 00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.719 same parties occasionally because we had mutual friends. I ended up a friend who 534 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:28.639 introduced us ran a co ed softball team, and David's wife played on the 535 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.639 team and I played on the team, so so jud we were just in 536 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:37.840 contact on and off for years. And when the Asylum started, I think 537 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.480 it was called something else. They were actually doing art house films, you 538 00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:45.880 know, and I talked to him on occasion about trying to get something going, 539 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:50.159 and it never really amounted too much, and I guess I was just 540 00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:54.960 oh, that that friend of Donna's who wants to be a director, right, 541 00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:00.679 and and so I don't think he really took me terribly seriously. But 542 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:02.719 then once I made the Zombie film, and I could actually show him something. 543 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:06.360 I could say, here, look at this, I can do what 544 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.480 I've been saying I could do. And he looked at it, and there 545 00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:12.960 was a movie proving that I could do what I said I could do, 546 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:16.760 and he couldn't sort of ignore that anymore. And by then the Asylum had 547 00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:22.199 sort of become this low budget film factory where they were churning movies out in 548 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:24.800 large numbers, and they had plans to expand and make even more films, 549 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:30.840 and they had just hired a new director of development to guide that process when 550 00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.920 I made the zombie film, and he said, okay, that's pretty good. 551 00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:38.360 I will put you in touch with my director of development, and you 552 00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.079 know, when he puts out a call to writers for script ideas, you'll 553 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.039 be on the list. And so we went through a few different scenarios where 554 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.440 I got an email from the director of development saying, hey, we need 555 00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:58.519 some ideas based on this this concept, you know. And there were a 556 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:01.000 few where I pitched idea, is that nothing ever came of it. And 557 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:07.320 then finally there was they were going to do a knockoff of Fast and the 558 00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:12.440 Furious five, I guess, and I was into cars, and street racing 559 00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.159 and so forth, and so I pitched him my idea and they went with 560 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:21.840 it, and it just sort of we developed a relationship from there and I 561 00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:25.719 wrote that that first script for them. I wrote that in ten days because 562 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.079 we spent a while talking about the story, and by the time they finally 563 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:34.039 approved what the story was going to be, they called me into the office 564 00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:37.119 and say they said, okay, we want you to write this for us, 565 00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:40.880 but we need to script in twelve days. And I was like, 566 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.360 I've never written a script in less than two months before, but okay. 567 00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:51.639 And what's worse is that it was right before Christmas. For some reason, 568 00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.400 I always seemed to be writing scripts for The Asylum right before Christmas, and 569 00:42:54.480 --> 00:43:00.480 I had a Christmas party plan and so I lost a day and a half 570 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.719 two days shopping and getting ready for this party. So I really had to 571 00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:08.599 write that script for two hundred miles per hour in ten days. But I 572 00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:14.679 did it, and I got it to them and it was what they needed. 573 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:21.519 And that led to another and another, and eventually to this this sort 574 00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:24.519 of insane moment where they said, okay, we want you to write a 575 00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:31.559 movie called Sharknado. What's your process when you begin writing, do you try 576 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:36.320 to outline everything before you ever start writing? Or do you I mean, 577 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:40.000 what do you do before you actually start working on the screenplay. It depends 578 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:45.920 on the situation, because if I'm writing on assignment for somebody, then I'm 579 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:53.440 gonna be having to fulfill their needs. The Asylum has a very specific process. 580 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:59.480 They start with a one sentence log line that they will provide usually, 581 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:06.400 and they'll ask for a one variety of one paragraph pitches that would fulfill this 582 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.679 concept. And then they'll pick one of those one paragraphs and they'll say, 583 00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:15.119 okay, now write a one page story with a clear eight acts structure. 584 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:21.119 So I'll write a one page story and then they'll give you notes on that, 585 00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:24.440 and once they're happy with the way the one page goes, they'll say, 586 00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:30.440 okay, now write us a three page outline with more detail and break 587 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:35.800 it up into the eight acts for a TV movie. Because most of their 588 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:38.480 stuff, you know that they're hoping they can sell it to sci fi or 589 00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:44.360 whatever, so it needs a TV movie structure of eight acts. And so 590 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.480 then you do this three page outline for them, and then when there'll be 591 00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:50.519 notes on that, and then they'll finally approve that, and then you go 592 00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.679 to script. So that's the way I have to work for that. When 593 00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:58.880 I'm doing a spec project, I prefer not to do that. What I 594 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:04.440 generally do on a spec project is I'll have a basic idea of what the 595 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:08.039 story is going to be, so I'll probably have that one paragraph idea, 596 00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:14.679 and then I'll go to an outline format, where what I do is I 597 00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:19.440 make up a sheet with lines labeled one through ninety, and each one of 598 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:24.360 those lines should correspond to a scene, on the general assumption that it'll be 599 00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:30.639 about one scene per page. So I've got ninety scenes, and usually the 600 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:36.440 opening of the film will just be in my head because that's the the impetus 601 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.679 for the story, and so I'll fill out, you know, the first 602 00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:44.800 one, two, three, four or five ten lines with a one sentence 603 00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:49.639 description of what is that scene. And then usually if you know what your 604 00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:52.639 story is, you know what your beginning is, you probably have an idea 605 00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.360 how you want it to end. So I'll go in and I'll plug in, 606 00:45:55.480 --> 00:46:00.199 Okay, what's the climax of the film, and that'll be like or 607 00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:04.519 eighty five, eighty six, eighty seven, and then okay, what's the 608 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.159 turnaround in the middle, and so somewhere in the middle, and this will 609 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:12.000 be less precise where it goes. I'll say, Okay, now this happens, 610 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.320 you know, and maybe there'll be a couple of intermediary moments. And 611 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:21.920 so I'll have this one sheet of ninety lines where there's a bunch filled out 612 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:23.760 at the top and there are a few interspersed in the middle. Okay, 613 00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:28.400 I know this kind of thing has to happen somewhere in here, and then 614 00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.599 there'll be more detail towards the end. And on a spec script, I'll 615 00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:37.400 just start writing the script then, and usually as I start writing, more 616 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.920 ideas will come to me to fill in those blank lines in the middle. 617 00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:45.239 So probably by the time I've finished the script, I've also finished the outline, 618 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:50.559 and I'll be able to move things around. I don't do the index 619 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.239 cards like a lot of film schools teacher, and I know a lot of 620 00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:58.800 writers. Do you just let the structure come out. I like this. 621 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:00.679 I like this outline because I want the structure in front of me. I 622 00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:06.159 want to physically see it all in sort of one gaze, one glance, 623 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:12.159 So it's having it fit on one sheet of paper or sometimes two sheets of 624 00:47:12.199 --> 00:47:15.719 paper taped together. I like to be able to see the structure of the 625 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:21.159 film in front of me. Do you have any basis? Did you just 626 00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.920 kind of feel out the structure or do you have like beats that you like 627 00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:27.760 to hit by specific points? I mean, I hate to say something like 628 00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.760 save the Cat or whatever, but you know anything like that that you ever 629 00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:35.960 use if you're in a bind and you can't really figure out what's going to 630 00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:38.440 go somewhere. No, I've never read say of the Cat. I've never 631 00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:45.800 read True Bee. I've never read any of these screenwriting guys. In fact, 632 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:50.239 it's funny because I've been talking to a film school about possibly teaching a 633 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:52.400 class for them, and I want to teach a directing class, but because 634 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:57.440 of Shark Nado, of course it's to their advantage to have me teach a 635 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:00.480 screenwriting class. And I keep telling them I don't know anything about screening. 636 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:06.719 I just sort of do this instinctively, So no, I don't really do 637 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:10.000 that. I just get an idea, and then I'll get an idea of 638 00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:14.920 who the characters are, at least who the main characters are, and then 639 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.199 I just sort of watch what they do and I write it down. Do 640 00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:21.320 you have any tricks for characters? Are like, how do you keep characters 641 00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:25.119 consistent and really developed your characters? I really don't know how to articulate how 642 00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:30.760 I do that. It's just I mean, I just put myself. Maybe 643 00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:37.159 I'll put myself in the head of the weed character and try and put myself 644 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:39.119 in that place and say, Okay, what would I do if I were 645 00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:44.559 this person in this situation? And then for the bad guy, I'll think, 646 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:49.559 Okay, what wouldn't I do? I don't know. I really have 647 00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:53.000 never analyzed. It's it's a much more organic process for me. I mean, 648 00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:57.599 I could tell you how I direct a film, but how I actually 649 00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.920 write one of these scripts. It's it's just sort of a thing that happens, 650 00:49:01.239 --> 00:49:05.159 you know. And there are certain rules. I mean, obviously you 651 00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:13.039 know that you have to establish all your characters and the impetus for the story. 652 00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:16.159 All has to happen within the first twenty pages. I'm preferably within the 653 00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:22.920 first ten. There needs to be some action in the opening. At some 654 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:27.719 point in those first twenty pages, the hero makes a decision that propels you 655 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:31.599 into the story, or propels the hero into the story, the dilemma has 656 00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:35.559 to be presented to the hero and then he has to make a decision as 657 00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:37.760 to what to do and that changes his world. Somewhere in the middle, 658 00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:45.199 there has to be a turnaround where suddenly things aren't going to go the way 659 00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:47.960 the hero had hoped they were going to go. And then as you get 660 00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:53.519 towards the three quarter point in the story, you know that there generally needs 661 00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:59.920 to be an all is lost moment where it looks like everybody's going to die. 662 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:07.239 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back 663 00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:13.599 to the show, and then that propels you into your action finale where the 664 00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:19.239 hero does something and saves the day. That's about us as close to a 665 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:24.159 formal structure as I really get, and then it's just a matter of what 666 00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:28.840 happens. And now again, when I'm writing for The Asylum and they have 667 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:31.760 this very strict aida act structure, that's a bit different because I know that 668 00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:37.280 each act is going to be about twelve minutes long. The first act will 669 00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:38.760 be a bit longer, and the last act will be a bit shorter, 670 00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:45.199 and in each of those acts there has to be an action beat, so 671 00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:49.280 that that needs to be fulfilled in the outline stage. So you're writing for 672 00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:53.480 commercials or is it like is that the breakup? Well, they don't want 673 00:50:53.519 --> 00:51:00.119 you to write for hard commercial breaks, although on Shardnado two I started doing 674 00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:07.320 that because Sci Fi when they air these movies will often put the brakes someplace 675 00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:09.960 other than where you thought they were going to go. But they still want 676 00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:15.239 it structured, so that every twelve minutes there's there's an action beat and sort 677 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:21.480 of a mini climax, and then each one would get progressively bigger until you 678 00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:24.800 reach the act. So yeah, you do, especially for the ones that 679 00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:30.840 they know are going to Sci Fi, you do have to delineate your act 680 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.400 and they all need to be about the right length, you know, So 681 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:36.760 maybe one act could be a bit shorter, or maybe you could have a 682 00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:40.440 ten minute act if you have somewhere else in an act that's fourteen or fifteen 683 00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:44.679 minutes. But that's about a structured as I guess. Now, when you 684 00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:47.800 wrote Apocalypse Earth, did you eat that write that about the same time as 685 00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:52.880 Shartnado, Yes, and and it should it should be noted that it was 686 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:57.239 not called Apocalypse Earth when I wrote it. It was just called AE and 687 00:51:57.559 --> 00:52:01.599 there were a variety of things that AE was going to stand for, and 688 00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:06.719 basically when people asked me what did it stand for? I said almost everything. 689 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:10.320 Apocalypse Earth was actually a tag that was added on during post production by 690 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:14.519 the Asylum, and at first they were going to call it Alpha Earth, 691 00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:16.079 and I was like, no, we can't call it Alpha Earth. That 692 00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:21.880 gives away the twist at the end. So Apocalypse Earth. Somehow I thought, 693 00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:23.519 well, there's this big apocalypse in the opening theme, so if we 694 00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:27.960 call it Apocalypse Earth and people see that, maybe they won't be looking for 695 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:30.119 the twist later on. But yes, I was Let's see, how how 696 00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:35.320 did that go. They came to me. I was talking It was after 697 00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.559 American Warships, and we were talking about what my next project for them was 698 00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:44.119 going to be, and we were talking about a giant monster movie that they 699 00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:47.440 wanted, and so at first I agreed to do this giant monster movie. 700 00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.639 No, that's not how it work. We were talking about what we were 701 00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:55.039 going to do and we were still tossing around ideas and they came to me 702 00:52:55.079 --> 00:53:00.199 and they said, we want you to write a movie called Shark Storm, 703 00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:06.480 and that just didn't sound very appealing to me. It seemed like Shark Storm. 704 00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:09.440 Okay, well there's been a lot of movies about sharks and storms and 705 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:15.239 you know it, just why would we need this that it didn't appeal to 706 00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:21.679 me? So I said no, and we kept talking about about other projects 707 00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:25.039 and uh, and we started talking about this giant monster movie that they wanted 708 00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:29.840 to do, which I guess was going to be a mockbuster of Pacific Wrin 709 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:35.840 and so I started working on that in sort of a vague concept form, 710 00:53:36.440 --> 00:53:39.880 and then they came back to me and they said, Okay, what we 711 00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:45.840 really want you to do is Sharknado. And I said, what does sharks 712 00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:49.960 have to do with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization? And they said no, 713 00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:54.679 no, no, not Sharknado. Sharknado a tornado full of sharks. And 714 00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:58.840 I said, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. That makes a 715 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:02.400 lot more sense, and if I can write it that way, then sure, 716 00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:07.760 I'd love to do that. Because the Asylum tends to play all their 717 00:54:07.760 --> 00:54:14.280 movies completely straight. They don't like, they don't like to stray into forest 718 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:19.519 or comedy unless it's a comedy, which personally I have always take an issue 719 00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:22.280 with because I think, if you're going to make a low budget movie, 720 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:24.199 and you know it's going to be low budget and it's going to look kind 721 00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:29.639 of cheap, then it's better to get the audience laughing with you than at 722 00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:34.119 you. That was certainly the approach I took with Mutant Vampire Zombies from the 723 00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:37.159 hood. And so when they said Sharknado, I was a little concerned that 724 00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:40.920 they would want to play it completely straight. And I just didn't see how 725 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:46.360 you could take a movie called Sharknado and play it completely straight. And they 726 00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:50.320 said, no, we understand it's called Sharknado. There's going to be a 727 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:54.440 certain tongue in cheek element to it. And so with that comforting thought, 728 00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:59.639 I agreed to do it. And originally I was supposed to direct it, 729 00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:05.360 and so I guess this was This would have been the summer of two thousand 730 00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:10.280 and twelve, and so the outlining process went pretty smoothly, and then the 731 00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:15.800 script writing, the first draft went very smoothly, and it was done in 732 00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:19.960 a relatively quick period of time, and there weren't a lot of notes, 733 00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:24.760 and it was just done, and I was going to direct it, except 734 00:55:24.920 --> 00:55:30.880 that I'd felt a little burned on American Warships because I thought i'd what we 735 00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:36.599 had done on set was really was really a good movie. And then I 736 00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:40.320 thought the visual effects, which we'd really been depending on, kind of let 737 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.519 us down. And if i'd known their process a bit better that that was 738 00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:49.320 the first film I directed for the Assaunt, and if i'd really sort of 739 00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:53.360 known a bit better what we were going to be dealing with, maybe I 740 00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:59.320 wouldn't have left the film so dependent on the visual effects. And so I 741 00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:04.320 was looking at the script I'd written for Sharknado and thinking, there's just no 742 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.840 way. There's just no way that this can be done on the kind of 743 00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:09.280 budget they're talking about. At least I don't see how to do it. 744 00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:13.440 I could do it for twenty million, maybe I could do it for ten 745 00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:19.000 million. It's really one hundred million dollars film. And so I sort of 746 00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:23.719 shied away from directing it because I didn't want to be in that position again, 747 00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:29.599 because even though the script had this tongue in cheek element to it, 748 00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:36.360 I still I didn't want to be unintentionally bad. You know, the stuff 749 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:38.960 that was going to be cheesy had to be where I intended it to be 750 00:56:39.079 --> 00:56:44.360 cheesy. I didn't want to be in a position where I just didn't have 751 00:56:44.679 --> 00:56:46.280 what I needed to make it the way I wanted it to look. And 752 00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:52.440 at the same time, I had been getting utterly enthralled with Game of Thrones, 753 00:56:53.559 --> 00:57:00.679 and I had this sort of craving to create a whole world. And 754 00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:06.119 I've always been a science fiction guy. So I went into the director of 755 00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.159 development and I said, look, you know, we've got this Sharknado, 756 00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:13.480 and I'm supposed to direct it. But truth is, what I really want 757 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:17.199 to do is make a movie where I can create a whole world and have 758 00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:22.280 a society in it and just sort of build something from the ground up, 759 00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:30.320 whole alternate reality. And he said, well, we've got this project that 760 00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:36.639 It's the one sentence description is a group of refugees from Earth have to survive 761 00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:39.239 on a hostile alien planet. And that just said it perfect to me. 762 00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:43.960 But I said, yes, I'll do that, and so I started writing 763 00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:47.519 that and that would have been I guess September of twenty twelve, and so 764 00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:54.440 I wrote AE. And as that writing process was going along, they scheduled 765 00:57:54.480 --> 00:58:00.679 the shoots of AE and Sharknado for exam Actually the same time they were both 766 00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:06.400 going to shoot in January, and so I was forced to choose. And 767 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:10.079 at that point I decided to do AE and I wanted to do this science 768 00:58:10.119 --> 00:58:14.199 fiction film in the jungle, and so I said, you know, I 769 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:21.960 respectfully withdraw from Shark Nado. I hope somebody else makes it work, and 770 00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:25.159 I'm going to go off to Costa Rica and shoot my science fiction movie. 771 00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:29.639 And in retrospect, I don't know if that was the stupidest thing I've ever 772 00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:34.639 done or not. You know, because if I had written and directed Shark 773 00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:37.639 Nado, then I would be the one getting all the attention for it, 774 00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:45.039 and maybe I'd be hailed as this great genius, whereas now Anthony and I 775 00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:51.519 are splitting the attention for it. But at the same time, you know, 776 00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:55.880 you wonder maybe things went the way they were supposed to go, and 777 00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:00.639 maybe it wouldn't have worked if I'd directed it. Who knows if if something 778 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:06.960 Anthony did, you know, and dealing with not having the resources he needed 779 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:14.440 to properly create this this insane situation that I had written. You know that 780 00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:20.079 it could well be that that is what endeared it to people. So maybe 781 00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:22.519 things worked out for the best. And I'm getting the attention from Sharknado. 782 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:28.119 But I also have this this serious science fiction film that I can point to 783 00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:30.519 and say, see, I can do that too. Now, when you 784 00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:34.320 saw Sharknado, was it pretty much kind of how you had envidgeted or is 785 00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:37.960 it very different from your idea? Well, Anthony didn't want me to see 786 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:42.440 it until it was done. It was funny because we met for the first 787 00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:45.920 time in the editing room. We were sharing an editing suite. I was 788 00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:52.119 cutting AE at the same time he was cutting Sharknado. And I was in 789 00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:54.800 there working with my editor and this guy walks in and he walks up to 790 00:59:54.880 --> 01:00:01.159 me and he says, I want to punch you. We'll be right back 791 01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:09.400 after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. And 792 01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:14.920 I didn't know who he was. And I said, okay, why and 793 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:17.920 he said, I directed Shargnado. I said, oh, well, then 794 01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:24.199 you have every right to write Aunty, that makes sense. And so that 795 01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:28.960 was the beginning of what has become a great friendship. But he didn't want 796 01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:32.800 me to see it until it was done, so I didn't actually see I 797 01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:36.880 mean, while we were editing, you know, I would look over my 798 01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:40.360 shoulder because we were sharing this editing suite, and so I would occasionally look 799 01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:45.119 over my shoulder to see what had become of my words, and some of 800 01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:47.360 it looked right, and some of it was like, what the hell is 801 01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:52.119 that? You know, because there was a car chase, and I didn't 802 01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:55.239 write a car chase. What was that about? You know? And obviously 803 01:00:55.320 --> 01:01:00.719 they didn't have the wherewithal for it to be raining comes and lee in every 804 01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:02.760 shot, and for Los Angeles to be filling up with water, which was 805 01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:07.639 this giant disaster that I'd written. So when I finally thought I saw it 806 01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:10.679 with the public along with everybody else, I was just at home watching it 807 01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:15.239 on TV. There wasn't a premiere or anything at the at the asylum when 808 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:21.239 things been the it wasn't. What happened out here is we get the East 809 01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:25.840 Coast Sci Fi feed and then there's the re airing for the West Coast. 810 01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:30.519 So the plan was the people were just going to watch the East Coast feed, 811 01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:34.400 you know, wherever they were, and then we were all going to 812 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:38.440 get together to watch the West Coast feed at a party. But then, 813 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:45.079 you know, during the initial broadcast, this whole thing started happening. On 814 01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:49.719 Twitter, and it just just sort of became insane, And so I was 815 01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:54.679 on the computer and I was corresponding with people and tweeting and getting phone calls 816 01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:59.599 for people saying can you believe what's happening and all this stuff. And so 817 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:02.559 then I had to run out at the last minute to go to the party 818 01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:07.480 for the second airing, and I got I guess it was going to start 819 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:10.599 at nine o'clock here, and I got in the car and I got on 820 01:02:10.679 --> 01:02:15.760 the freeway and for some reason, I guess there's been an accident or something, 821 01:02:15.599 --> 01:02:22.360 but the fruler was at a dead standstill. And after about twenty minutes 822 01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:25.000 of this and realizing I'd already missed the beginning, I just gave up and 823 01:02:25.039 --> 01:02:30.880 went home and got back on Twitter and got back on Facebook and email, 824 01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:35.679 where the world was still blowing up. Very strange things were happening, and 825 01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:38.800 I was corresponding with Damon Lindelofen, and I was starting to get requests for 826 01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:45.000 interviews, and it was just sort of the most surreal night of my life. 827 01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:46.760 Well, you know, for the so for the first twenty to thirty 828 01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:52.840 minutes of Shardnado, I was sitting there going what that's not that's not what 829 01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:57.400 I know. Wait what But after that, after about the first thirty minutes, 830 01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:00.320 it settles down to be basically the way I wrote it. I mean, 831 01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:04.880 it doesn't look like what I saw in my head, because I still 832 01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:09.400 had this huge disaster movie los Angeles is filling up with water kind of thing, 833 01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:13.920 you know, as the background. I to me, it was a 834 01:03:15.119 --> 01:03:20.159 it was a two layer thing. There was this realistic disaster movie going on 835 01:03:20.679 --> 01:03:23.559 where Los Angeles is flooding, and then on top of that, there was 836 01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:30.480 this ridiculous element of sharks falling from the sky. And so obviously the realism 837 01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:36.599 of the disaster scenario was not achievable on the budget they had. And so 838 01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:40.559 I can't say that it looked the way I saw it in my head when 839 01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:46.239 I wrote it, except for certain moments where where it really did. But 840 01:03:46.599 --> 01:03:52.960 on the whole, you know, I was a little frustrated that they couldn't 841 01:03:52.440 --> 01:04:00.920 really achieve that kind of level of destruction and disaster, but still that they 842 01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:05.239 kept to my script from from about the twenty or thirty minute point on, 843 01:04:06.039 --> 01:04:11.239 and I was no longer going Wait, I didn't write that. Anthony changed 844 01:04:11.280 --> 01:04:15.119 a fair amount in the opening do you think they carried off the tone that 845 01:04:15.159 --> 01:04:18.719 you had, the kind of comic tone, but not like the actors took 846 01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:23.199 it seriously, but they were within a world that was kind of yeah, 847 01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:26.840 you know, chaotic or absurd in a way. Yeah, I mean that 848 01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:31.960 that the tone was what I intended. The production value was where it wasn't 849 01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:36.119 what I had envisioned. But one of the reasons that I ended up not 850 01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:40.559 directing it was because I knew there was no way to achieve what I had 851 01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:43.239 in my head. So I think it all worked out for the best. 852 01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:47.960 Now you guys went back and making Sharkonado two, was the process completely different 853 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.880 now that you had had all this success with the first one? Yes, 854 01:04:56.519 --> 01:05:01.480 it was. It was interesting because the first one, nobody paid any attention 855 01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:06.920 to me the outlining story, outlining process. You know, there there were 856 01:05:06.920 --> 01:05:10.920 a few notes, and then it was like, okay, go ahead write 857 01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.159 it. And then the first draft of the script the Asylum had a few 858 01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:17.280 notes which I addressed. Then sci Fi had a few notes, and then 859 01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:21.079 it was done and you know, nobody thought anything of it. It was 860 01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:25.639 just this ridiculous little movie. By the second one, of course, that 861 01:05:25.719 --> 01:05:30.519 had become this phenomena, and so everybody had their eyes on it, and 862 01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:35.320 every little thing that I did was being examined by you know, half a 863 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:40.119 dozen different people who all had to have input on it. So it was 864 01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:45.519 it was a much more political process getting the second script done, and of 865 01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:49.599 course there was a lot more writing on it because the first one nobody thought 866 01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:55.519 anything of it, and the second one suddenly suddenly it was going to become 867 01:05:55.559 --> 01:05:59.239 this franchise if we didn't screw it up. So there was there was a 868 01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:01.199 lot more pressure, there was a lot more eyes on and the whole process 869 01:06:01.239 --> 01:06:06.039 took a lot longer getting the script done. Now, what does it feel 870 01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:10.920 like when all of a sudden people are, you know, noticing you and 871 01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:14.800 wanting to interview you, and you know, you get all this recognition. 872 01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:16.400 How does that feel? Is it a good feeling or is it kind of 873 01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:21.599 does it give you anxiety or no? Well, the only anxiety has actually 874 01:06:21.599 --> 01:06:27.199 has happened in the last couple of months, whereas somehow my home address got 875 01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:30.039 out on the internet, I guess, and so I've been getting fan mail 876 01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:36.000 at home and that's a little disturbing, you know. Unfortunately, it's all 877 01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:40.960 been good. There haven't been any death threats or anything, but the fact 878 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:44.239 that somehow my address got out there, that that makes me a little bit 879 01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.920 anxious. Other than that, it's it's just been wonderful, you know. 880 01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:50.239 I mean, I came out to Hollywood expecting to be the next Steven Spielberg 881 01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:58.480 and imagining something like this, but imagining it happening twenty years ago. And 882 01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:04.800 so after years of struggling in anonymity. While I still hope for a level 883 01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:11.400 of success and public appreciation, I'm not sure I necessarily expected it anymore. 884 01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:16.079 So when when it finally started happening, it's just been wonderful. But I 885 01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:21.360 had been, you know, sort of preparing myself for this kind of career, 886 01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:26.360 you know, for twenty odd years. So I think if it had 887 01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:30.039 actually happened when I was that young, when I first came out here, 888 01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:34.880 I probably would have messed with my head. I think the years of struggling 889 01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:41.079 have allowed me to stay a lot more grounded during this whole process and just 890 01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:45.840 sort of take it for what it is and enjoy it and not let myself 891 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:49.639 get too carried away with it all. But you know, it's a wonderful 892 01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:55.400 thing. You go to these conventions, and lining up to get your autograph 893 01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:59.400 and telling you how much they loved the movie and what fun they had with 894 01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:04.559 it, and little kids too. I remember at Comic Con, not this 895 01:08:04.760 --> 01:08:08.840 last summer, but the year before, after the first movie had just come 896 01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:13.039 out. I walked on too, walked onto the floor at Comic Con the 897 01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:15.960 first night I got there and it was about to close. I'd gotten there 898 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:19.600 really late because there was traffic or I don't remember what it was, but 899 01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:24.119 I got there late. So I just figured i'd take a quick walk around 900 01:08:24.159 --> 01:08:29.520 the convention floor. And I'm walking through these tables of displays and stuff, 901 01:08:29.960 --> 01:08:33.600 and the very first little snippet of a conversation I hear as I'm walking past 902 01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:39.079 somebody, is this guy saying yeah, and then he dives into the shark 903 01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:42.720 and then he cuts his way out. And that was literally the first thing 904 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:45.880 I heard as I walked through the convention floor at Comic Con. And that 905 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:51.199 was just surreal. And then the next day, we were doing this poster 906 01:08:51.399 --> 01:08:58.680 signing, and you know, we'd been signing pretty consistently for like half an 907 01:08:58.680 --> 01:09:01.840 hour, and I was of surprise that people were still coming, and so 908 01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:04.880 I took a break and I went out to look for the line to see 909 01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:09.319 where all these people were coming from, and I couldn't find the line. 910 01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:14.600 All I saw was the big crowd of people filling the hall, and then 911 01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:17.119 I realized that was our line, and they were actually lined up out the 912 01:09:17.159 --> 01:09:21.279 door to get these posters side. And mind you, I and and Tara 913 01:09:21.399 --> 01:09:30.640 weren't even there. It was me and Anthony and Jason Simmons and one other 914 01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:33.680 cast member I think, so the big stars weren't even there, and we 915 01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:38.920 have a line out the door of people to get their Sharknado posters side, 916 01:09:38.920 --> 01:09:41.960 and it was just like, Wow, what is going on here? This 917 01:09:42.039 --> 01:09:45.039 is amazing. And then this mother came up with a little girl and must 918 01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:48.640 have been about I don't know, six or seven, and she was dancing 919 01:09:48.680 --> 01:09:54.720 around and going Sharknadou was jack Nado as she was spinning around encircled, And 920 01:09:55.960 --> 01:10:00.760 it's just been a remarkable experience. You right back after a word from our 921 01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:11.560 sponsor and now back to the show, and it's just so it's just really 922 01:10:11.600 --> 01:10:15.880 wonderful to see that people have gotten into him like this and have embraced it 923 01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:20.039 in the spirit that we intended. Just a wonderful feeling well, it's funny 924 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:26.039 because my son's completely obsessed with tornadoes right now, and his favorite movie is 925 01:10:26.039 --> 01:10:30.359 Twister. He's six years old. And last night I had a Sharknado on, 926 01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:32.800 you know, doing a little bit of research, and I was like, 927 01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:35.800 son, this is a tornado, but a tornado with sharks in it, 928 01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:41.520 and he just about lost his mind. And that was the first thing 929 01:10:41.560 --> 01:10:43.720 he said. This morning, He's like, Dad, can we watch Sharknado? 930 01:10:43.760 --> 01:10:45.239 And I was like, after school, maybe it's, you know, 931 01:10:46.199 --> 01:10:53.359 pick a time. I'm sorry. So I had one more thing that you 932 01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:56.359 had mentioned something in an interview before that's kind of a different topic, and 933 01:10:56.399 --> 01:11:00.479 I just wanted to ask you this real quick and then let you go. 934 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:03.880 You had said that if you could do things all over again, you would 935 01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:08.000 have made a feature film a lot earlier in your career, and I was 936 01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.319 wondering if you could just talk a little bit about that. Well, like 937 01:11:11.479 --> 01:11:15.199 I said, it had always been in the back of my mind that if 938 01:11:15.199 --> 01:11:20.359 I didn't succeed, if I didn't get where I wanted to go, Following 939 01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:26.199 the traditional route of trying to get a film, getting somebody to make a 940 01:11:26.199 --> 01:11:29.920 film, getting a production company or a studio, to hire me to make 941 01:11:29.960 --> 01:11:32.760 a film that eventually I was just going to have to raise the money and 942 01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:40.159 make my own. But I guess I kept putting off that moment because that 943 01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:46.159 reaching that decision sort of implied that I had failed up till then that nobody 944 01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:53.600 was going to hire me to make a movie, and so coming to accept 945 01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:56.840 that and saying Okay, I'm going to have to take matters into my own 946 01:11:56.880 --> 01:12:00.439 hands took longer than it probably should have. If I made that zombie movie 947 01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:06.960 five or ten years earlier, then the things that came as a result of 948 01:12:08.000 --> 01:12:12.800 it would have happened five or ten years earlier, and you know, hopefully 949 01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:15.520 I would be five or ten years further along in my career than I am 950 01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:21.000 now, because because everything that's happened, from making movies to The Asylum to 951 01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:26.520 the success of Shargnadom, all of it can be traced back to that zombie 952 01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:30.600 film where I proved that, yes, I can actually make a movie. 953 01:12:30.279 --> 01:12:33.760 So if I had, if I had done that sooner, then maybe I'd 954 01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:38.560 be further along now, and maybe I'd be making big studio films now, 955 01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:42.960 or at least maybe I would have spent an extra ten years doing what I 956 01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:47.960 wanted to do rather than just struggling to make a living. So I do 957 01:12:48.039 --> 01:12:54.479 sort of regret not having made that film earlier. The question arises, you 958 01:12:54.520 --> 01:12:59.199 know, would I have wouldn't have been as successful if I'd done it when 959 01:12:59.199 --> 01:13:03.199 I was younger and had less experience and less maturity. I don't know, 960 01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:06.439 there's no way to know. Of course, I think it would have. 961 01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:11.800 Don't you think technology also kinds of plays a role to a certain extent. 962 01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:15.159 I mean that that it's so much cheaper to Yeah, yeah, we were. 963 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:18.960 We were able to make that film cheaper than if we'd shot it ten 964 01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:23.960 years earlier and had to shoot on film, actually even five years earlier, 965 01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:29.520 because we were we were sort of you know, we weren't the first indie 966 01:13:29.520 --> 01:13:32.720 film to shoot on HD, but it was still a relatively new thing and 967 01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:36.640 and so the technology was still actually sort of a question mark at that point. 968 01:13:36.720 --> 01:13:41.319 I remember we built a computer to edit it, and it's like, 969 01:13:41.359 --> 01:13:44.239 okay, what what does this computer need to be able to do? And 970 01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:46.439 ended up sending like five grand to build a computer, And now you could 971 01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:50.880 do it for you know, eight hundred on a laptop. So yeah, 972 01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:57.319 it probably would have been more expensive if we'd done it sooner. But at 973 01:13:57.319 --> 01:14:02.880 the same time, there was more money available because films were more expensive then, 974 01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:09.079 and part of the so called democratization of film that's come with the digital 975 01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:13.399 revolution, I think there's a little less respect for what it takes to make 976 01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:15.079 a movie now. People think, oh, well, anybody with a video 977 01:14:15.079 --> 01:14:20.000 camera can make a movie, and that's not true. And unfortunately, I 978 01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:24.399 think people think, oh, it's really cheap to make a movie now, 979 01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:30.119 and that's not true either. Certain elements have become less expensive. You don't 980 01:14:30.119 --> 01:14:32.079 have to process film stock, you don't have to buy film stock, you 981 01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:36.239 don't need to print your movie. At the end, renting a high end 982 01:14:36.399 --> 01:14:42.960 HD camera costs as much as renting you know, a pan of FLEXI used 983 01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:45.359 to do. So that hasn't changed so much. If you're really trying to 984 01:14:45.439 --> 01:14:48.359 do it at a professional level, Yes, you can go out and buy 985 01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:53.359 a cheap HD camera now. Hell, I mean, you know, there 986 01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:59.000 are phones that will shoot four K videos, but they still have crappy, 987 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:00.800 little plastic lens. It's not like you're really going to be able to make 988 01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:05.840 a movie that looks like a movie on your camera phone. So yes, 989 01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:10.760 certain elements have gotten cheaper. You know, you don't need to rent an 990 01:15:10.760 --> 01:15:15.520 Avid anymore. You can do it on any home computer. You can edit 991 01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:21.600 a film. Now digital effects can be done on less sophisticated computers, but 992 01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:26.960 you still need the really good software and you still need people who know how 993 01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.439 to use it. And so the craft hasn't changed. It hasn't gotten any 994 01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:36.119 cheaper, but unfortunately people seem to think it has. And so, you 995 01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:42.159 know, it used to be that people in the film industry got paid pretty 996 01:15:42.199 --> 01:15:47.239 well, and part of that was the assumption that they had a craft that 997 01:15:47.279 --> 01:15:55.479 they had learned over many years that was a rare skill. And part of 998 01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:59.359 it was the fact that you're not going to be working fifty weeks a year, 999 01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:01.960 so you need to be paid enough when you are working to live, 1000 01:16:02.640 --> 01:16:06.600 you know, in between projects. And one of the unfortunate things that's happened 1001 01:16:06.640 --> 01:16:13.159 in recent years is people seem to have forgotten that these are still hard one, 1002 01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:17.000 hard fought skills that take a lot of time to perfect and not just 1003 01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:21.359 anybody with a computer and an iPhone can do it. You need to know 1004 01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:29.560 what you're doing. But because of the technological advances, there's a changed perception. 1005 01:16:29.640 --> 01:16:34.319 I think of what's involved here, and so people think that they shouldn't 1006 01:16:34.359 --> 01:16:38.439 have to pay for all this stuff. So you see all these visual effects 1007 01:16:38.439 --> 01:16:42.199 companies, you know, winning Oscars and then going out of business because they're 1008 01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:46.199 forced to do things so cheaply. And you see people making films on their 1009 01:16:46.239 --> 01:16:50.800 iPhone and then they get surprised when they can't sell the movie to a distributor. 1010 01:16:51.319 --> 01:16:58.079 So it's it's been a double edged sword, I think. And yes, 1011 01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:00.960 certain aspects of it are a bit cheap than it used to be, 1012 01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:09.640 but costs like sets and feeding your crew and hiring actors and hiring crew and 1013 01:17:10.039 --> 01:17:14.279 putting them up if you're in a different location, or building sets or finding 1014 01:17:14.319 --> 01:17:18.279 locations and paying for none of the costs of this stuff have changed. Movies 1015 01:17:18.279 --> 01:17:24.000 are expensive. It's very hard to make a good movie cheap. You know, 1016 01:17:24.079 --> 01:17:26.359 every once in a while it can be done if you have a concept 1017 01:17:26.399 --> 01:17:30.960 that lends itself to that, like you know the Blair Witch Project in or 1018 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:34.760 if you're making a movie about two people sitting at a table talking. But 1019 01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:42.119 to make a popcorn movie still costs money, just because the cameras and the 1020 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.039 editing equipment are a bit cheaper now. It doesn't really change that. I 1021 01:17:45.079 --> 01:17:48.439 want to thank Jason so much for doing such a great job on this episode. 1022 01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:51.239 If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, 1023 01:17:51.239 --> 01:17:55.920 head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash 1024 01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:59.479 eight. Thank you so much for listening to guys as always, keep on 1025 01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:02.159 writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to 1026 01:18:02.199 --> 01:18:06.640 the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.