What is krack alakin fellow Thermonuclear A efforts. I am Dan for Valley finally
a partially healthily dam for Valley coming at you with my certified fan tabulous Thermonuclear
A f co host, mister Grant Hughes, fresh off the completed demolition of
his kitchen in a show of just just such massive masculinity sure redoing his kitchen
that I know for a fact that his amazing wife Katie did most of the
work for from what I hear anyway, shout out the planning, so shout
out to her. We got lots to get to. We're gonna go for
about ninety minutes and just get through as many teams and topics as we.
Kens's words like this weird space now when we don't want to do off season
age yet and the rumor mill is kind of just always talk about the same
three players over and over again. Before we do my usual reminder to please
subscribe to us if you've not done so already, hit the subboton on YouTube,
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I would say than most national shows in the summer as we get into the
dead period. So now's a good time to hop on and stay on with
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And if you would like to support the show, we strongly encourage you
to buy tons and tons of merch from our stores. A link to that
is in the podcast and YouTube description. Grant has his mug behind him.
He's pointing to it. I am wearing a Thermuclear af T shirt around New
York City on Monday. I was there for Bleacher Report that day. I
had buttons on my bag, I had stickers all over my thermis. I
was wearing a Hardwood Knock shirt and our colleagues. Grant made a note one
of our bosses specifically to say, you look like a billboard. Basically is
what he said. I was like, that was the plan. I knew
I was going to conversation. Let's get Yeah, so do all of those
things and word of mouth recommendations. That's the best way to build podcasts at
this point is all these social media platforms is burn tell people who you don't
like hoops about us. We really appreciate it. With all of that out
of the way, Grant, how the heck are you doing? I'm doing,
Grant? I just had a phenomenal hour long conversation, wide ranging,
hour long conversation with you, and that's always a treat. So we need
to Should we start a separate Your listeners want a separate podcast where they just
listened to Grant and I brainstorm sometimes about things that don't even have anything to
do with it. We mapped out content for the next few months at this
podcast at Bleacher Report, we talked about your kitchen project little bit. We
talked about my Johns into the City where I'm I'm convinced that I gained us
thousands of subscribers, which is walking around the streets and my hardwood knocks swag.
Yeah yeah, No. I think if we ever go to like a
subscription model, we just put those behind like the highest tier of subscription you
know level, so that if you really want to know about our not that
interesting lives, you get that free. You get that charge twenty five dollars
a month. It'll be one person that does it. They'll get to hear
like all the shit, yeah talk about it are Yeah. I think that's
a sustainable model. We should definitely do that. I'm doing well. I'm
glad to hear you're on the mend. As I said to you off offline,
I always take it as a personal affront when I get sick and it's
like a hundred degrees outside because it just feels wrong. So I was feeling
for you. I appreciate that. I would also like to say very quickly
that I feel for you or unconcerned about you. Because I had to take
four days off from the gym because I was like really three because I had
a play at rest day and then I got sick, talk about in the
front, like why can't you be So I traded multiple body parts at one
I'm very I'm not a bro, but I liked the bro split where I
just nuke one body part at a time, six days a week. So
I had to combine body parts and I was struggling. I texted you after
I did the first one and I was like, this is absurd. It
was only back in byes. It wasn't even like these huge body parts.
I did chest and shoulders like to wrap up, and I wanted to die.
I was just like, how does Grant do this regularly? And so
I'm impressed, but also just concerned because I don't want you to hurt yourself
at some point or just be so exhausted because you're training. Probably even I
split up into two for the most part, I had chest, shoulders and
tries and that gutted me. You're probably doing like all of them and these
total body workouts, and it just it made me very worried about I was
impressed, but then like immediately in the middle of the workout, I was
like, I'm just very concerned about Grant, Like how maniacal? How much
of a massochist do you have to be to follow that type of a of
a workout regimen. Well, one, your concern is appreciated too, There's
no way. This is an interesting topic of conversation for the listeners, is
it like the nobody can We love all of you guys, but at this
point like, yeah, we'll get to like the you know the reason this
podcast exists in a minute. Uh, Well, one, what I already
gave you two bullet points, so three, I'm not I'm lifting a fraction
of what you're lifting, uh for it right now in particular, and this
is the part where no one will be interested my gym is doing. It
goes in like cycles where it's like, you know, for this eight week
cycle, we're emphasizing something, and for this next six week cycle, we're
emphasizing something else. And the lifts we're doing now require a lot of shoulder
mobility and like technique, and I don't have either of those things. So
I'm lifting nothing basically, just trying to learn how to do it correctly.
So I feel great right now, Pipes, I'm listing a lot of like
thirty five and forty five pound bars and not anything. There's like no weight
on it half the time. So uh Like, physically, I feel phenomenal.
Mentally and emotionally, I'm just showing up and failing to follow instructions for
an hour every morning, and that's taking a toll. But this is a
baby step situation. So I don't feel bad for me because I'm not sore
at all. I feel great right now. I refused to believe that you
don't have pristine technique. I don't buy it. If listeners wanted us to
talk about our lives more, there it is if and to quote the great
philosopher Joe Cronin, if this podcast take takes months, it takes months,
so be it. Yeah, do we want to start there? Where do
we want to start? We want to start with the n season tournament before
we dive into teams, and uh, that's yeah. I think feel like
we should start there. Yeah, because I didn't. I actually had to
research it because I'd heard it described like four different times that I still didn't
have a handle on the logistics of it and what it all is. And
it's like potentially problematic just throwing it out there. If I think it's problematic,
No, no that if if people can't, like, is it too
confusing? If you've heard well, yeah, needed that, And the answer
to that is no, not really. I'm just like, I'm I'm dumb.
But now I get it because I read about it a little more and
it's it's kind of like elegant is too strong of a word, but it's
like pretty unobtrusive, right, because that was the concern is like, how
are we going to shoehorn this stupid thing into a regular season that everyone agrees
is too long and meaningless and all this other stuff. But it's really just
like the way they've set it up is you know this, but for the
listeners, you know, there's a group play stage that are just basically regular
season games with like a fancy label slapped on them, and they count towards
your group play record. You advance out of that like a like a World
Cup scenario, you get into the knockout rounds, and then if you make
it out of the knockout rounds, you go to Vegas in early December and
play a what a semi final and a final, and that's that's it.
Like, that's that's how it works. It's not too so that's that's all
just to say, like, pretty good job of finding a way. I
don't know if this will work at all. I don't know if it will
generate the interest the league wants it to generate. But at least the way
it's being executed is not going to sort of exacerbate the pre existing problem of
we got too many games. The players aren't going to give a shit about
this like that. The problems I think have been mitigated about as well as
you could expect them to be. I don't think, and Steve Jones pointing
this out on Twitter, I don't think fans are for people who are like
up in arms, not that you're not going to feel most of it,
because they're just games that are baked into the schedule, and it's once you
get to the knockout round stages that it becomes interesting. My question is,
like it's always been, are the players going to care enough about it?
And if they do, if they buy into it, I actually think it'll
really work out. I know Mark Stein's a big skeptic of it. I'm
kind of a I guess an optimistic skeptic. Like the play in tournament has
worked out, but there are more stakes there. I don't know. It's
half a million dollars per player, high enough stakes for some for sure for
all of them, no, I think they should. They should have used
that to a million dollars at least per players. Where I'm at, the
other thing, can I well, this is probably I have a proposal that
I think is going to be shot down. I pulled people about it already
while I was at the Bleacher Report office the other day. I don't really
think anyone liked it. To be fair, I love it, but I
like the I'm wondering if, like they're gonna change the resting rules for these
games specifically, and they say they're gonna apply them to like the rest of
the regular season, maybe that could just help it, because it's not like
no one's not I know that we get like annoyed by the amount of games
sometimes that star players are appearing in, or just a collective, you know,
approach to load management. Like players want to play and when they play,
they're not actively not trying, so these it should still be entertaining.
And if you can build these is like oh these there's more national games on
like a what is it Tuesday and a Friday or whatever it is. Yeah,
Like I kind of you know, they're gonna sell more sponsorships. The
ESPN studio shows are gonna remain awful because there's only gonna be like two minutes
of non analysis filled by eighty commercials. But like, I'm open minded to
it, like anything to maybe drum up more interest or higher stakes before Christmas,
which is what everyone says the season officially begins, and I don't know.
Sometimes I don't even buy that, like, yeah, there might be
more interest in it, but yeah, because and look, it's important to
do this like early too, because I'm a big believer in this. Now
after watching the Nuggets for the final four to six weeks of this season,
I'm not buying into anything I see from March through the end of the end.
I'm over it, Like it just it's not happening for me. And
so I'm hoping this works out for sure. Yeah, I think like there
was a way this could have gone that could have foreseeably made these games less
interesting or like had lower stakes, like, hey, we're gonna do this
in season. Tournament doesn't count towards your regular season record. The win you
get ultimately is just that cash prize, Like you might have had guys or
teams just saying like, well, we're scheduling all our rest for this since
none of it counts in the standings, right, Like so I think that's
that's sort of like the elegant part of it is, Yeah, they still
count, and if maybe it does, maybe it doesn't generate more player like
interest or fan interest, but like it's not gonna detract at all, so
like there's not really a downside and maybe if it has like some incremental gains,
then it's a success because again they've made it so that it's not like
it's as integrated into the season as you can make it. So it's like
it might not work, it might not generate a bunch of interests, but
it's not gonna hurt, so it's like it's worth worth trying for that reason.
It is funny though we've made all this concern about player workloads that the
winning team is going to play in eighty four Yeah, like regular season games.
So I'm just gonna I'm going to believe that whoever has McAll Bridges is
gonna win in he's in tournament because playing at eighty four of eighty two regular
season games at the most mcael Bridges think of all time, for sure,
for sure. Yeah, I wanted to know for each each conference from you,
which group most intrigues you, so I'll read them off for Yeah,
well I had it, and let me let me pull it up because I'm
go ahead, you read them off, I'll pull it up. So in
the West group, A, the Grizzlies, Sons, Lakers, Jazz and
Blazers, Group B, Denver Nuggets, Clippers, Pelicans, Mavericks, Rockets,
and Group C the Kings, Warriors, Timberwolves, Thunder and Spurs.
Well there's so I thought it was interesting how they how they even picked these
groups right, because there was like a weird randomization based on record and you're
split by conferences obviously cycled through. Yeah, it was just like the way
I think it was like pleasantly not complex, but it was confusing. Well,
so I was trying to look for like where is the where's like the
pushover group like you do for the World Cup, and I was surprised by
sort of how balanced it is. I couldn't find any place that had like
an obvious like, all, this team is gonna waltz through this group or
whatever. The first one that jumped out as I'm looking at it now is
the West Group C, which has the Kings, Warriors, Wolves, Thunder,
and Spurs. And most of that interest is is what I'm going to
step on our teams I don't want to talk about, but having the Thunder
and Spurs together is really really fun to me. I'm very excited to watch
those two teams. I'm trying to think. I always see you West too,
because that's just well, I was asking you just about the three groups
in the West first, so I'm with you on West C. I just
feel like I like the idea of between the Wolves the Spurs, that that's
thunder. There might be three teams that we just have no idea how good
that they could be during this season. And like the kids of the Warriors,
both have ultra high ceilings and so fun. I like the I guess
this wasn't intentional, but the Kings and Warriors, I think you know,
they got it. They finally got a playoff series together and it was pretty
heated and competitive and like, oh, you know, if you're trying to
you know, rivalries may not exist anymore. Everybody likes to say that,
but I think that's cool that we have them in there together too. Group
A in the East, the Sixers, Calves, Hawks, Pacers, had
Pistons, Group B, the Bucks, Nick's, Heat, Wizards at Hornets,
Group C the Celtics, Nets, Raptors, Bulls, and Magic.
Which group most intrigues you. I think I like A the best, just
because there's too many like, if you have Washington and Charlotte in the same
group, I'm out only Southeast Division and Group B not not not interested there.
Yeah, I think I mean of the of the like quote unquote bad
teams or the teams that you know one thirty or fewer last year. I
think Indiana and Detroit are a couple of the most interesting and they're in East
Group A. So I think probably I'm looking more at the bottom end of
this because I don't know why. I just sort of I sort of think
that the teams that might really get up for these are the ones that probably
aren't going to be, you know, making deep playoff runs, and so
this is like, hey, we're gonna win something, and maybe we jump
on the Sixers or Calves or whatever, maybe the Hawks. I'm kind of
fit in between those two tiers, But I like a the best there.
What about you? I like see the best just because when you have the
Celtics nets and big question mark with the Raptors and then Bulls and Magic,
this is the group that has a chance where there's no suck yea within it
has the highest percentage chance. Depending on how you feel about the Bulls of
the Raptors, and so that's just altering where you look at. You know,
Group B, either of the Hornets or the Wizards are going to be
bad, Like the Wizards are trying to be bad, So that's not even
a question there. And then how much are the Heat gonna care about something
that's happening in the regular season? And then in a it's just I don't
know how to feel about the Hawks. Is it too early for the Pacers?
And then the are the Sixers gonna have James Harden or even Jowell and
Beat on the roster? We'll have to talk about them eventually. Is it
too early on the Pistons? So I like Group C the best here,
that's that's that's fine, you're you're entitled to your opinion. Dan, whatever,
Uh, let's talk. Where do you want to go next? Oh?
Man, we have like we've got the requisite trade stuff. We don't
need to talk about Dame, do we and the Blazers? I guess because
we haven't talked Dave since the trade request? Oh okay, Well let's see.
I think just like broad Strokes, I'm okay. I was actually thinking
about this earlier today. I can't really get and it's always hard to judge
if this is real or just because we're in the social media silos that we're
in, it seems real, but it's not this idea that like, oh,
Dame is is somehow deeply wrong for talking about not running from the grind
for forever and then asking for a trade, or the Blazers are deeply wrong
because they may have promised to do X, Y and Z, and then
Scoot Henderson became available and they said, well, maybe we should just build
around this guy, and that wasn't something we expected to have the option to
do. So, you know, I just like, I can't get to
a point where one I care or two I have strong feelings about somebody in
this mix, whether it's the Blazers, Joe cronin Dame ownership is like has
done something that I should get worked up about because it's just like zoom all
the way out and it's this guy was there for a decade, they didn't
win big, they had a couple of decent runs. He's getting older and
really expensive and he wants to go to a contender now and the team that
he plays for currently has every incentive to make that happen so they can start
over and they can get sixty million per year off the books in a few
years. Like, it's just like everybody's sort of doing the right thing.
And if you want me to be upset because for a long time they all
said they weren't going to do the right thing, that I can't quite get
there. So that's like, I don't know if that's a take, but
it's or if it's a response to like people's opinions that aren't as like forcefully
out there as they seem to be to write. But so I'm with you
in the sense I'm with you on every front. The only thing that I
take a little issue with is one I don't like that this has become some
barometer of morality for not just Day but the league who cares though sort of
confounding having an opinion about the problem the problematic trade request mackinations where it's okay,
we didn't talk enough about this with Kevin Durant, I think because the
Phoenix Suns negotiating against themselves, have the best package for Kevin Durant that was
going to be on the table. It's different with the heat where I find
myself toward people I think are shitting over their shitting on their package too much,
because if they can renegotiate that pick with the Thunder, they can offer
up the three first round picks and three swaps. That's not nothing. I
know, Oh it's heat picks. Pat Riley is like gonna be eighty or
whatever. He's not like you want this and heat picks. Those are worth
something. And Tyler Hero's I know he doesn't fit on the Blazers. I
think that's a good player. You asked me if I'm on Tyler Hero or
Jordan Pool. Tyler Hero, like, it's not on the level of that
contract, is my point at this At this level, maybe Jordan Pool rebounds.
And I will say, I do think it's a slippery slope where when
you have this much time left on your deal, when you signed multiple extensions
with a franchise that was sort of traveling alongside this undefined path in the first
place, limiting it to one team is just not you need to open it.
And I mean it needs to be something where it's like at least three
teams that have legitimate packages, and Brooklyn was kind of already mentioned, so
that let's just say there's two. There needs to be another one, and
don't give me the Lakers. Don't give me the Clippers. I don't want
to hear that in this instance. I'm not having a conversation about abolishing the
draft right now. I know that some people are pro that. I don't
know. That's a whole other discussion. Damian Lillard has had the opportunity if
he wanted to reach free agency and pick his own spot to do so.
Give me a list of three teams that don't have nothing like the Lakers.
I think you could even if he said the Clippers, that might be a
real team just with you want two first round picks and tears Man from the
Clippers. So I have a problem with the one team trade package. And
also fans and the Blazers should want Yeah, they should want the best for
Dame. They should be thankful for his loyalty, everything he's done for the
organization. It's also okay to want your franchise to get the best package possible
for your franchise. Quarterstone, because yes, you do have these springboards into
a rebuild with Shandon Sharpe and Scoot Henderson, but the idea is to continue
building on top of that, and so there's just it's not black and white.
I want to make that cleared. I do based off things that I
have heard from people who actually know shit, We're gonna find out some stuff
after the fact that maybe Payton's like, I'm just gonna say, we're gonna
find out some stuff that I think will change a lot of how people feel
about this. But this goes back to the Kevin Durant trade request as well,
after eas sided extension. The difference was that despite only negotiating with one
team, they put everything on the table, and the Sun putting everything on
the table, in large part because Michael Bridge is better than Tyler Hero is
going to be a lot more. There's a chance that that just might have
been the best offer if you even if you opened it up to all thirty
teams, Like, there's no guarantee the Pelkids or okay se would have come
in with all this stuff, or that the Raptors would have put Scottie Bards
on the table. Sounds like they did, so I think that's the difference
here that people are failing to see that. I think it's okay to be
concerned about Okay, well, free agency is done, Like the league has
just decided like, hey, these big names aren't going to reach Tree Agency
really anymore. And what trades are such a big part of now star acquisition
where it's drafting or trading to just rule out twenty seven twenty eight teams right
off the bat, is you know it's something that's worth discussing. Yeah,
I think that's I don't know how to feel about that because I sort of
I sort of think like at a certain point, if I'm gonna be okay
with a not just gonna say a player, if I'm okay with Lillard asking
to be traded, I don't know if I can draw some kind of line
at you know, because it's just about like who, what's he entitled to?
What's he owed? What are the Blazers owe him? It's all this
whole thing is like it's just a transactional relationship, like they're paying him money
to do a job and like that. So I don't I don't think it's
fair. It's already dropped. I don't think it's fair to compare Damian lillard
situation to the general work labor force, Like it's very different when you and
I if we were to spurn our contract or like something you weak to report
versus what is happening now at that scale. It's just it's different. Again,
these things can't be black and white and uniform like. It's just it's
different. I'm guilty of that too, because it's it feels it's so easy,
it's so like intellectually comfortable to say, like, well, if this
were any other job, you would act this way. Therefore, you know
NBA players and their bosses should act. It's like, you're right, it's
not It's not that simple. Bleach report wants me to sign a lifetime contract
or I can't be moved for fifty million dollars a year. You know what
I will. I will suck it up and I will do it. I'll
figure out a way to survive. That's the thing. It's just a minor
point. But he signed that extension, you know, not that long ago,
and it's like, there's no so if I guess you could definitely bump
on the idea of you know, this is certainly you know this trade request.
It's not the first time he's thought about it, right Like ever,
it's clearly he was here. He was holding free agency meetings even though he
wasn't a free agent they're like Davey a little met with the lebron and Afy
Davis to decide if it made sense to join the Lakers, and it was
like, uh, he's under contract, right, well, that's what I
mean. It's like and all, but then at the same time, it's
like, what is he gonna turn down like one hundred and twenty three million
that he's you know, just yeah, of course you're gonna take that extension
if you're him, like the insane amount of money. Even if you even
if you know, I don't know if it's wrong to take that extension.
If you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that within X number of months
you're gonna ask for a trade, I think you probably still should just sign
that. Yeah money, right. So it's like it's not wrong. I
can't get I can't get worked up about it. It's like everybody is sort
of acting in a practical way. It's just like it just runs counter to
all these everyone professing, you know, whether it's the Blazers or Dame that
like, it's not this way for us, like we operate differently. It's
like, no, you're when it comes down to it, you're just gonna
to make the best decision for yourself as a business or for your business as
a business, if you're the Blazers, like, that's just where we are
now. I would agree with that. But unless we find out that,
like they guarantee they were going to trade Scoot and then decided not to.
Yeah, I think the one team stuff is just mind numbingly annoying. Like
that's just And I don't even problem that. If he wanted to tell other
teams that weren't on his list of five, they're like, oh, I'm
not gonna I get it, And then it happens all the time. So
it's not and I wanted to me it's not Damian Lillard that it's just I
want more randomness to this. And like the whole CBA, the new CBA
specifically was supposed to create more of an even playing field, but I don't
think it will, to be honest, I think it's gonna end up hurting
the middle class player. I think it's gonna end up hurting stars in Damian
Lillard's situation where they're not going to get paid as deeper into their career.
I think this was an absolute farce by the players unions to sign it,
and it makes me wonder if CJ. McCollum does not like to sell players
when I just think about all these like rules that we're imposed. So I'm,
yeah, it probably enough on the Blazers, but I think you're probably
I'm probably more worked up though about the one team stuff than you are,
it seems like, and I understand that if i'm if I'm making the argument
that everyone's acting practically, and that's why it doesn't bother me. The specifying
one team is like an impractical thing to do because that just makes the act
of getting yourself traded harder. So like, I think I would agree with
that. I just like I also I'm kind of like, I mean,
if he wants to play there, it's okay to say that, but maybe
you don't broadcast it. You know that that might be the issue. I
wanted to ask you about this though. What do you make of the Miami
He's off season right now, independent of the Damian Lord, Like if they
let's just say that, it could look grant if it takes months. It
takes months that it's so funny And I know there was more to that quote.
Sean Hikind had it up on Twitter that made it sound like less aggressive,
but would just tweet that's the breast conference was amazing. What do you
make of Miami's off season? Independent, because let's just if they don't wind
up with Dame, how do you feel about their off season? Not good?
I mean they lost, like what do you? What do you That's
the obvious answer, right like, you you lost three, you lost Gabe
Vincent and it's not like you were that deep, right like you you had
not I mean, I guess it matters that Tyler Hero wasn't there. So
if you slot him into some of the you know, a big chunk of
the struce Vincent minutes, you make back some of that. But they they've
definitely lost more than they've brought in, right like, unless Orlando Robinson is
just gonna be the next guy that they which maybe I think there's already kind
of a ground swell of like, oh look out, they got another one.
But I mean it's it's way too You can't give the Heat like,
oh, therefore they get a B minus for their offseason because this guy might
you know, break out or something. I just I ultimately like, what's
the Heat's grade for the off season? It's incomplete because the most transformative thing
that might happen hasn't happened. So but but like, if this is how
they go into the seasoned with this roster, it's like they're worse obviously,
So it's not great if you just made the finals and got worse to a
pretty significant degree. Yeah, to have so Kevin Love is back. I
thought that Josh richards ad minimum deal was big, Like that's just we could
look back and be like we can play Sorry, can he still play?
Like I mean, are we doing this? Don't be one of those I'm
just asking like because I've always been of the mind that like, man,
you know, Josh Richardson kind of fits anywhere. He can do a little
bit of everything. And I wonder if I'm clinging too hard to five six
years ago or you know what I mean. He's too confident off the dribble
and the defense isn't what it was. But like, as someone who's just
like this three and d wing on a scale of like, I don't know
who would be who's going to be more valuable next season, mattist Table or
Josh Richardson. There's a chance of Josh Richardson. Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair. I'm trying to I'm just looking up how old he is too
him at the minimum though, like come on, yeah, for sure at
the minimum, given his position. It's just like I don't know. I
feel like I just can't get visions of like peak, you know, Miami
heat. Again, don't get guys that leave the heat. They're gonna get
worse. That's how it works. Watch out, watch out Max, watch
out Cleveland Cavaliers and Lakers for Strusan Vincent, respectively. I just yeah,
I mean he's the thirty six and a half percent career from deep get you,
yeah, I mean he's yeah, for the minimum, what are we
doing? Of course that's a good minimum signing. I can't think like a
minute talking yourself into jost Well, I was just like, how big of
a deal is it? Because at first it was like, oh, I
can't believe it. But it's like that's it's a good minimum signing. I'll
give you that. So, like they have the bodies, and I guess
Thomas Brian is fine as a bat, like you were playing Cody's ell or
against the koli Okis, Like I don't know that, Like maybe Thomas Bryan
has the inside scoop on how to stop your kisch now because he spend time
in Denver. But you're right, they're worse than they. I think than
they because Kyle Lowry just got a year older, and I love Josh Richardson
now he's a year older son year older. Yeah, so they should still
be a really good team. But I don't think they're better if they don't.
So if you don't trade for Dame or somebody else, like they're all
like having an off season discussion is yeah, okay, you just made the
finals, like you also kind of got waxed in. He also won forty
four regular seas games before you turned it on, Like it's not like I
mean every so everyone will be terrified to the heat if they make them if
when they make the playoffs, but it's like they they barely made it,
and they're worse, like how do you know how the season's going to go?
And I think the big thing here too is that they got worse when
you look specifically that I mean, I know Brian and love and Richardson's space
the floor in theory, like they needed half court creation and spacing, and
I would argue they have less of it, or let's say a net neutral
amount of it. I think without Gabe Vincent and even Strue, you probably
have less creation and spacing, right, I know, they're shooting percentages were
all over the place. So even if you want to say they have better
stand still spacing with richardsitting Kevin Love, they definitely have less creation ability on
this roster, right, Yeah, no, that's definitely right. And again,
yeah it's you know, we don't need to talk about them, but
like the Celtics had a real problem with the offense bogging down and not enough
good passers and offensive organizers, and they traded away, you know, two
of their better guys at that, so like, yeah, maybe they're you
know, not that much worse overall, but they didn't address like a real
issue. So yeah, the heater kind of they kind of fall into that,
uh, for the same reasons. They've lost something they had in pretty
short supply to begin with, which is if you're talking about a playoff context,
it's all about like just don't have a glaring weakness. If you can
avoid it, you know, be okay at least at everything, And they
had kind of a glaring weakness and it's it's more glaring. Now, that's
that's not great. The two other just team slash players. I want to
get to that. We have to get to on the news front before we
start alternating through. Uh, let's start with so de Jante Barry he started
a four year, one hundred and twenty billion dollars digit with Atlanta. I
believe there's a player option on the tail end of that deal. Yeah,
he will right now, So that'll be a player option in two and twenty
seven, two and twenty eight at thirty one point six MILLIAD. Were you
surprised he signed this deal? Do you like this deal for both sides?
Like? How did you just feel about that? In general? Actually was
surprised that it got done at all, because I felt like I had just
sort of written off the idea of a Murray extension, much like well before
the CBA change, like Jaylen Brown, like it wasn't gonna make sense for
him to get one hundred and twenty percent one forty changes it. It didn't
make sense for I'm trying to think like O G N and Obi doesn't seem
likely to sign an extension for the same reason, just because free agency he
can sign a bigger deal. I thought that would be the way the Murray
thing went, and that was honestly part of the reason that we were,
like, I don't know about the trade, because you're giving up a bunch
of draft capital for maybe a guy that's gonna walk because you can't extend him.
So I was surprising. I think it's a I think it's just an
objectively a good thing for the Hawks that they locked him down, even if
even if like that's just to trade him at some point, I don't think
that's the reason. But yeah, I think I think the numbers fine.
I think, uh, you know, we'll have a much better idea of
how his pairing with Trey Young is going to go under Quinn Snyder for a
full season. I think you'll get a better sense of that. So yeah,
I was surprised just because I had I did not think that this was
an extension that would get done. So like, almost by definition, the
Hawks got a good deal, right, because the thinking was that they were
not going to be able to, you know, entice him to just avoid
free agency, which which is what's happened now, right, And I think
so someone had said that we got the Anthony Edwards extension amount way wrong on
our YouTube channel, So I apologize if I was. Actually they're pretty aggressive
about it. But if my max contract calculator was wrong, or maybe I
had the wrong salary cap number in there, but he could have signed next
year if we went four years, like there could have been a five year
option too. But let's just say he would have signed. A four year
max could have run as much as one hundred ninety one hundred and ninety one
million based off where the salary cap is I think one forty two for twenty
twenty five, So just by virtue of guaranteeing yourself seventy million dollars less or
so, just based off that, he might still opt out. I do
do you I feel like maybe we should have considered it more likely that he
signs it because this is someone who has had an ACL injury in the past.
It might just want to lock down the most buddy as possible. There's
also just like, do you not trust the shaky foot of your audit Atlanta
to where I think you know coming out of that season in Atlanta, were
you hire or lower on your Dejante Murray stock, I might be slightly higher
because I thought he played a lot or shot a lot better off the ball
than I do on volume. But I didn't come away thinking that, oh,
this is someone who might actually be like a top twelve guard or something
in the in the league. Like it doesn't if you had to bet,
you know, the over under out him making another All Star team point five
all Star periodism, you're taking over the under own bat. I might.
I'd probably go over because I can imagine he's just finished his age twenty sixth
season. But it's like that's a good number to set it at. Just
something you made me think of, wasn't. Wasn't one of the reasons the
Spurs traded him because he basically said, like, I'm not gonna extend here.
I need to I want this, I want the max, and so
you need to go before we do about the one hundred forty percent thing.
Maybe that's the difference. Yeah, maybe that's the but I mean that was
that was That was the state of the rules when the Hawks got him.
So that was why I was like, well, why are you any different?
He's not going to extend here. Maybe he also looked at it too.
I don't know this for sure, but like looking at what's happening with
James Harden who yes he is older. For there wasn't really a market and
then even Fred van Fleet got the max for two years. But look at
where you're gonna go to get it right, It's like if you want to
be on a team that maybe he just believes is more competitior, he might
really like Atlanta whatever. I'm just I think it's probably fair for both sides
because I don't know that I just don't know how good he is in the
context of the league right now, where it's yes, he's a top fifty
player for sure, So like this salary is totally I think it probably skews
more team friendly than player friendly, but I think that it's probably more just
representative of his value as a player and to this team than anything else.
Yeah, I think he's a good starter that might have an All Star game
in him, and so that just makes the money that it's, you know,
four for one twenty. I'm sure there's incentives. It's actually less than
that he's probably not going to get maybe he will, but if it's less
than that by a few million bucks, that's even better. Obviously. Yeah,
I think I do wonder though about the Well we're probably going too long
on the john Ton Murray, but like what do you think the ideal team
for him is and and why doesn't it involve Trey Young right, like,
like it seems like he should be on the ball more, right, It's
just the team is just like, can you surround him with at least three
shooters and that is the second best player or the best player on the team.
Look, because probably he's in the idea of his role right now,
is the second best player on this team makes sense for him? But it's
can the first best player not be his? But like if he was put
him on the Celtics, Yeah, that's like that's the team where it's like,
oh, you'll have four shooters around you at all points for the most
part, or your RW three and then three shooters with you and Murray.
Like that's the team model. And I know there aren't a lot of teams
that could replicate that at the moment, but like Atlanta theoretically comes pretty close.
Not so like they don't have a four spacing five right now. So
like, but if Trey Yug was less ball dominant, I would think that
they would come pretty close to being a situate was should that makes sense?
Could you imagine it made in Denver instead of Jamal Murray? Like that's the
setup too, that could work. I'm not saying he's better than Jamal where
if that's like you imagine in Denver with Jamal Murray and Nicolo Kis would make
a ton of sense. Yeah, I mean just take the Bruce Brown roll
over. I did want to ask you, though, are we in agreement
that the Atlanta Hawks offseason this deal I think is a good deal for them.
I want to make that clear. The else season kind of sucks,
right, Just hey, we duck the tax? What are they under it?
My right now, it's like, okay, we have how much wiggle
room under the tax? At the moment there they have a ton under The
first April they were about nine million under the tax. Okay, cool.
But your biggest addition is Kobe Buffkin, who I actually really like. But
it's what does his play time look like with Jejante Murray and Trey Young on
your roster? You sat out somewhat. Do you remember the YouTube comment there
when we were doing our Mega Show live stream where it's like Atlanta started and
free agency started. Atlanta was like, Oh, I'm gonna go out and
get cigarettes or somethink were gonna say, Like what did they even do?
I forgot about the I mean the return. Ultimately, So are tight Ti
Washington and Uswan Garuba? Are they tied into the Collins trade? Did that
get like roped into? They're not even on Atlanta anymore? Okay, so
they had them and they don't have them. Where are those guys? Patty
Mills at the moment is their big addition? That's right, the yah tracking
we're Patty Mills. It was Garuba and Thai Washingtons. But one of the
more difficult things of the ass, did I just what I mean? Yeah,
I'm never excited if like the big achievement was we got under the tax
again, Like that's not that's not never sell you can understand it from a
team perspective. Never celebrate it. Wow, that was a good business by
Atlanta. Yeah, so we guess what we did it guys. It's an
indictment on how much they fucked the shit out of John Collins's value. They
were trying to trade this dude before they sign him to that mega deal.
They signed him to that mega deal, and at every turn, they were
like, how can we make John Collins a worse fit for our roster?
It was okay, we're gonna pair him with a primary rim running big,
and then we're gonna add another ball dominant guard to the equation. So he
is just relegated to accessory duty. And look, maybe you don't buy into
John Collins's value as anything more than an offensive accessory. That's a different conversation.
Atlanta literally just devalued him like at every turn, after, before and
after paying him. It's one of the more mind boggling just developments that I've
seen, where it's they had all this information on the he was on their
team. This is someone who saw thrive and in a role, and then
you decided, hey, let's continue to pull him further and further away from
that role. I really want I would love to see like a not that
you could ever get the true measure of it, but like a like a
like a line graph of like what John collins trade value was starting in like
twenty nineteen, just to see like where how high it went and how low
it was. I ranked him as one of the ten best trade assets leading
into the last offseason because he's so undervalued right now, the contract is reasonable.
Like look at where we had lots of conversations about I mean, they're
only gonna get one first round pickback for him, Like that's not enough.
You can't trade him for that. And then like lo and behold, they
don't even get that, Like that's I just can't. That's not on this
front office. But like the whole ducketing attacks think like we didn't do anything
else. My prediction would be and this might be a way of forcing us
to segue to the next team. I think they are one of the two
or three most likely teams to wind up with Pascal Siakam be a trade until
that would change the complexion of their off season. Which hey, speaking of
that segue Pascal Siakam mark Stein, I think there's been a bunch of rubblings,
just official and unofficial for a while on him, but Atlanta per mark
Stein has been one of the most aggressive teams trying to get him, and
he basically said he didn't come out and write this out right, but he
kind of hit did that. Siakam is more likely to be traded at this
point than James Hardner, Damian Lillard or at least as likely or he's the
likely star to be traded first. Where it take Pascal Siakam was dealt before
Damian Loward or James Harden here, So I'm just where do you land on
that whole situation. All I'll say is because this is this has been a
thing with Toronto for at least a year that we've been talking about at least
with it didn't It wasn't just Siakim, it was Anobi and Van Vleet and
Gary Trent Junior. Having just seen Van Vleet leave for nothing when you absolutely
could have traded him for positive value, after seeing Kyle Lowry leave for basically
nothing where you could have gotten more than just precious to you up, I'm
sure that I'm positive if you're so. If because of those things, the
Raptors more than a normal team or just a random team, if you're talking
about it, you better trade this guy like you better not make this the
next guy that you end up in the position of, well, we could
keep him, but either we're going to have to outspend a crazy like Houston
Rockets level offer, even though the brevity of that overall contract makes it for
Van Fleet. I'm talking about a little more sensible or we just lose,
you know, I just I don't like and you always you call me on
this, and you're right, there's always signing trades. There's you know,
it's not like if a guy hits free agency you're guaranteed to lose them for
nothing. I just having seen Toronto do this now and kind of lose it
twice with with van Fleet and with Lowry, just move them. So so
I'm not surprised. I'm actually kind of hopeful because I want to see the
Raptors go one way or the other. You know, they've been one of
the most you know, annoying offseason teams for us, just because they're not
going. They're sort of like league fact. League forces are like acting on
them. They're not doing anything. They're just like, well Van Fleet left,
what are you gonna do. There's just there's no activity. There's they're
just being reactive or non active. I don't know. Yeah, no,
that's a great way to that. The way you close as a great way
to phrase it. And I guess I'm with you there. Move them just
because you can't be in the business giving players away for free or basically nothing.
And we know he doesn't want to be moved. He was telling teams
that I think Portland and Atlanta that he wouldn't resign with them or something.
He wants his Supermax. I have some news for Pascal Siakam, who's a
very smart person, fantastic basketball player. You ain't making All NBA on this
Raptors team. That's not fucking happened. No one's gonna watch you enough.
We will. I promise to vote you for All NBA if you're good enough
and they have surrounded you somehow with even less space. I guess Grady Dick,
if he comes on, it's just like but having Dennis Shrewder run your
point and like it's just and then Scotty Barnes, it's just gonna be too
iffy. I like the idea of the Raptors saying, hey, let's really
pivot into more of Scottie, more of of Og, even on the ball,
Like that's gonna have to be. The next discussion is you need to
be sure that you're giving Og the role that he wants and you're prepared to
pay him because someone's gonna I think with Siakim and Og specifically, they might
have been more sought after in free agency than Fred van Fleet, like this
year versus next summer, and like Justice the Sixers right now lining themselves up
for a ship ton of cap space and having ogn and Obi float around out
there. Some of these other teams that will be involved, just like Orlando
could have a crap ton of Capsa's getting. Detroit will be right there.
Someone's coming with these mega offers, and some of them will be able to
offer him maybe just as big of, if not a bigger offensive role than
he's ever had in Toronto. Commit to a direction. And that's been my
biggest issue with Toronto is that they've been straddling. They almost went like Portland
Trailblazers east on us to where it's are we going to try and stand pat
or hit these singles and doubles rather than going for a home run like the
Yacca Peodle trades a perfect example that was a needle mover, but it was
we gave up this loosely protected first round pick so that we could pay this
guy twenty million dollars a year and then let the guy who assisted on more
than one third of his buckets last season just leave for nothing. It's like
you could have maybe gone all in and been more aggressive and tried to get
a better player than Yaka Peardle and tried to be involved in more of these
star sweepstakes, or create your own That's the other thing we don't talk about
enough is you want me to name a player, create your own trade market.
You had the players to do that, You had the outsets, everyone
wanted them. Create your own trade market. You have to pick one way
or the other. I think at this port, at this point, the
league has picked for them towards. You have to look at this and it's
all right, we don't have Fred VanVleet, and okay, we sign re
sign Yakom Peartle, and like we have Gary Trent Junior floating around out here,
but like, what are we doing? Siakam and og? You're about
to hit free agency. And if Siakam saying he won't extend with other teams
or won't stay with them, I'm assuming he won't sign the one hundred and
forty percent extension, which I don't know. If I'm him, I don't
think that that's like a I think it gets Oh, does he get to
his max on the one hundred and forty percent, so he's got thirty seven
point nine, so like, oh yeah, he gets to fifty three.
So like that's not like are they even offering it? Because if you're looking
at moving him, he's he wants to be qualified with the Supermax. Is
your team even willing to extend you right now? I mean that? So
I wonder how different it is saying for Siakam, I'm not gonna, I'm
not gonna. I'm probably not gonna resign, so like, don't bother,
you know, if you don't trade for me. It's not that different than
Dames saying there's one team I'm going to play for, Like that's I like
it. Yeah, it's just like it just like doesn't it doesn't make any
sense. And Siaka, I mean this is probably a little unfair, but
it's almost like the Raptors I pretty clearly I don't think want to give him
the most money they possibly can. Like that just doesn't seem like something they
would prefer to do. They walk in free agency for absolutely nothing. Yeah,
and then but then you don't also get to it. Just I don't
know. It feels a little bit like the Dame thing where it's it's just
like, don't say that, don't don't don't broadcast that you're you know,
hey, don't trade for me, because if what you actually want is options,
you're just you're like trimming off way too many that way. I don't
know, it's I guess it's not a totally analogous situation, but a disastrous
offseason from Toronto. I would say he's fair body phrase. Yeah, I
think it's one of the worst one of the worlds and like they might still
be a pretty good team that's totally in the cards, but like pretty good
is has been you know, a status quo for them for a little bit
too long. I think for both of our tastes. One word prediction is
Siakam on the Raptors to start next season. Uh, I'm gonna say no,
just because this feels like a there's fire where the smoke is situ and
like when Stein goes in on something like that and you're like, I think
Michael Grange has been reporting this, he's in Toronto, has been kind of
on this a little bit more to a bunch of stuff too. Yeah,
I think I think there's enough here where I feel pretty good about and like
also because like we just spent forever talking about it makes sense. If you're
Toronto, you should You've got it, you should trade him. It's not
just you know the rumors. It's like, yeah, this seems like the
right decision. Where do you want to take us next? We finally reached
we're past the obligatory stage of this podcast. Let's let's vacalate team. Let's
alter eight teams. Okay, I we haven't talked about this team. I
don't think at all. And I was watching, uh, we're working on
a all rookie team thing, uh for Bleacher Report, you and I and
I was watching a bunch of chet Holmgren Summer League clips and it was just
kind of one of those moments where I maybe you don't have these, but
it was. It was It was very much like, wait, so,
why aren't the thunder gonna just be like a fifty win team? Like Grant
talk yourself out of this, and yeah, like, don't judge anything on
summer League, but just the totality of that picture. I think we love
like eight guys that they have, just like love eight guys. You know
how I feel about Jalen Williams by the way, Yeah, well, hey,
Jerry's still out on this whole thing. I mean, like s GA,
we you know is if he's not a he's definitely a top ten guy
right like this year. Yeah, it's not a crazy thing to say.
I think we both like Giddy, I mean, Cayson Wallace. I just
I'm sure I'm forgetting. Like five guys want to really intrigued me, and
it's a lot of it's Chet because he gives them a demension and they just
really don't. I mean part of this because he offers a dimension that like
nobody has short of like women, Yama, I guess, but I just
wanted to we need to discuss the thunder as I'm leaning towards them, and
this isn't a hot take because they won forty games last year, but like
leaning towards them being kind of like a Memphis level, like oh shit,
they're here, like regular season kind of assent. I'm very much ready for
that, and I'm ready also for you to try to talk me out of
that. No, I won't because I think Chet home ran based off what
I had wondered if would he be. I wanted them to overpay, overpay,
I wanted them to max out Brook Lopez for two years just to play
with Chet Home ran them in the spurs like my two And even if Pelicans
get done a sign trails, like if Brook Lopez was gonna leave, I
want him to end up here watching. From what I've seen with Chet Holman,
he's just ready to play center. And that change is the dynamic of
how you're able to flush out the rest of your roster. And even just
like you know, Jay will like having that center on there, like you
can step in and take take all these charges. And I my criticism of
them would be so it wouldn't shock me. It's not a real criticism because
if they came into you told me they had, like remember how we felt
about the Pelicans in December of this past year, we might feel that way
about the thunder where yeah we kind of saw it coming a little. Well
now we saw it coming with the pell because like they could. It wouldn't
shock me if you told me, yeah, they have the two scene in
the West right now. I still question whether their offense will be good enough
or are they gonna try and disperse minutes amongst too many guys they have too
they have too many guys, like quite literally they're gonna end up waving people
that are guaranteed money, and I'm just even like, oh, they're the
team that ended up with Usman Garuba. I have hope that maybe they'll play
him. They won't, they might wave him. Probably know like Usman,
Jay is still a guy that's just like, has a really good feel at
both ends of the floor, and if he doesn't get injured like this past
season, I think we're talking about him as an all rookie guy. So
but like, Cayson Wallace is a perfect sort of Litmitz test for how you
feel about the Thumber, because one, what do the minutes look like when
you just have lou Dort here, you have Sha Gilder Sauxander, you have
Josh Giddy. Now Kayson Wallace is in this fold, trey Man is still
floating around. I know you prioritize Case and Wallace over trey Man. Like
even the wing rotation with Jollen Williams and ken Rich Williams gets crowded and Alexei
Polkachowski's right here, but looking at and we're adding metches to the equation even
looking at just the Case and Wallace move as a larger portrait of their offseason,
whereas they entered with thirty plus million in cap space and the number twelve
pick and you turn that into the number ten pick in Case and Wallace and
a bunch of seconds and then like twenty two million guaranteed Indavis Berton's Usman Garuba,
Tai Tai Washington. They It bothers me because they are good enough to
have looked at this offseason as there might be a market like deficit of teams
that players actually want to play for. It could be good enough, Like
why couldn't they could have done what the Rockets did, is my point with
somebody. Maybe it's Pja. You really thought chent Holmegren is good to play
center. You could have went out and PJ. Washington is still floating around
out they are technically at the time being so just they like you could have
gotten involved on maybe not you know, maybe not Kuzma, but even like
Harrison Barnes on a two year overpay if you knew chet Holmgan was gonna pay.
I'm not saying the thunder failed. And you have to give Sam Presty
and co. Of the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe Case Wallace is
the next great star and then it's oh, everything just makes sense and they're
still gonna be really good, but you have the chance to be even better,
and like, like you could have been the team, well you have
all these guards, Like you didn't need to be the team that went out
and poison pilled Austin Reeves, Like you could have done something more. It's
not, well, what else were the thunder What were they supposed to do?
There's a bunch of shit that they could have done. And the other
thing that I think bothers me a little bit is well, how how valuable
was tap space? The Spurs got Reggie Bullock and a twenty thirty swap just
to facilitate like Grant Williams getting a Dallas and Reggie Bullock is a guy who
could just come in and be He was playing forty minutes per game for like
the team that went to the conference finals two years ago. So it's just
like it feels like they didn't make the most efficient use of their tap space.
I'm not even they had to sign anybody big. That would have been
my preference. I want to make that clear. Great Williams would have been
great for them, especially because of what Chet home. Grin looks like right
now, I just wish they would have done more or at least put a
higher premium on their cap space went using it to move up in the draft.
Take on these salaries, et cetera, et cetera. Vitor Oladipot is
currently on this roster. Tip, by the way, do you think some
of the motivation for what I think you're I would, I think pretty much
agree with you is sort of disappointing use of their cap space? Do you
do you think the which you said they sort of have too many guys like
went into that because it's it's almost like, well, if we go sign
whoever, maybe we don't get you know, we still all these guys other
than SGA. You know, you probably would like another full season look at
like, well how much can we ask Jaleen Williams to do? And like
how much offensive production are we going to get from chet? Like I get
it, Like, you know, guys get hurt. Nobody plays eighty two
games, you're gonna need, like, you know, a pretty deep roster
of actual NBA players. But like, and so you should maybe go use
that cas spase to sign someone that will help your rotation as opposed to kind
of dead money. But I wonder if maybe just the idea of let's kind
of still see what these guys that we really care about, these core young
guys look like, and we don't want to get anybody sort of in the
way, you know, of their development. I'm just I'm just like,
sort of that's not quite Devil's advocate, but I'm just trying to justify how
they went about it. No, I would agree there. I still think
they had more flexibility to do things in the front court specifically. Then if
that's and I'm sure, look that had to factor into their approach, like
you're gonna be okay, like some of these other aids that they might have
to wait for guarantee money. It's not a big deal. So they have
all these extra bodies, but they don't factor in to the log to replay
at that changes when you actually offer someone a contract. So yeah, I
get that for sure. Yeah, all right, you give me, give
me a team because we just went along time on Okay, see it really
wasn't that log for us. By the way, let's let's talk about the
Phoenix odds, because I've seen this question floated around and this you're the perfect
person to ask it about general pressions about their off season where you look at
everyone they've got, but it's after and this is kind of like them versus
the Denver Nuggets a little bit? Do they deserve to be the title favorites
now? Like what are the teams you're placing in front of them? But
I also want to know how you feel about because you were iffy on the
Bradley Beal trade, do you feel any differently about that now seeing what they
were able to do with their roster since then? Or are you just sort
of like, all right, let's not get all excited about a bunch of
bit of a contracts. I think I'm probably a little more. I feel
a little more positively about the Beal trade now because one of the big knocks
was like, all right, so you got what eight roster spots you got
to fill out with minimum guys something something crazy like that, Like that's just
unrealistic for you to think you're gonna build any depth. And depth was a
problem right in the playoffs. They just you had Durant, you had Booker,
and just nobody else could do anything. And then someone made the point
I forget where I saw it, but like Well. One of the problems
this team had is they needed someone else to create a shot other than Booker
and Durant, like Bradley Bill can do that, So I mean it's you
know, it's easy to also say, well, he's duplicative because he does
a lot of what Booker does, just not quite as well, almost across
the board, with some exceptions. So I think that the combination of like
Bill does actually address one of the main issues for them last year, and
the fact that they could fill out the roster. We've talked about this before
when we agree like kind of shockingly well with using minimum salaries, So I
do feel better about it. I haven't really thought about how they would stack
up as a contender. I know last year, just with Durant, we
were kind of like, well, if they're healthy, who's better Denver.
I think we agree it has gotten worse, right, just yeah, I
mean we lost. I even think losing Jeff Green kind of blows. And
yeah, I still think that the single worst deal of the off season was
giving Reggie Jackson. I can't wait. I can't wait till Reggie Jackson.
I want Reggie Jackson to play really well. So we have to make a
shirt apologizing to him. I look, I hope he does, and maybe
they know something. I don't play. I want to know how he had
the leverty even get the player, right, I totally agree with you that
was an inexplicable contract. Well, so should our logic change, like from
last year when the Durant trade happened? Like if healthy, aren't the Suns?
Like why would you bet against the Suns? Is it just so?
What is it? Then? Maybe that's the better question, Like if this
doesn't, if they're not the favorites, why is it? Is it?
The defensive question? Is it like Cam Johnson or a campaign? Is your
point guard? Like, I'm not sure where you'd start. I can't bring
the offense stuff like in terms of eating regular season innings. I guess if
you want them to have like another point guard on the roster other than Campaign,
but like Booker, bel Durant, even Eric Gordon, Like what are
like your offense is going to be playoff to begin Like what point guard are
you putting in there right now? Is gonna be closing games? Right?
So? I don't the offense is fine. The health I just think you've
now between Bo Booker and Durant like you're going to have I would guess sixty
five to seventy plus games of just two stars and two at every point.
And Okay, that's a big deal. So I can't bring myself to care
about that as much. Either. I think the two things would be the
defense, or there's three things. There's the defense. I have real questions.
It's yes, getting Kata Bates Diop, getting bringing back josh Akogi's a
big deal. I would like to I think they need to bring back Bismack
Biondo, even after getting uh jemez met too and Drew Eubanks. Excuse me,
I think they probably should have tried to bring react Tory Craig, but
maybe they didn't think he would play a big enough role to warrant paying him
that money. But like, like, how deep are you actually like?
Because those guys who are your best defenders is what I'm getting at when you're
looking at a Kogi and Diop or those guys gonna hit enough threes or do
enough on offense. I know Diop had a really good year last year,
but and so it looks like a great signing right now, So what does
that look like? And then what are you getting like the eighten factors into
this, Like, if you're getting the eighten from a year and a half
two years ago, on defense, you're fine. Like between him and Kevin
Rant, I think Booker's gotten better. And then I think you probably have
the offense to say, okay, well we'll could just play a kogie and
not like and care about the spacing as much. But I think that's a
question. The other thing is just like, well, what teams Let's just
say Phoenix answers all their questions in the affirmative. What are what teams could
possibly you have higher than them? I think the Nuggets are still there.
Yeah, I think the Celtics belong there. There's a lot of there.
They might be on my list though, so I don't want to talk too
much. But like the Celtics, and then who is here like the Bucks
Warriors, tier of I'm sure, I'm sure there's someone else we're forgetting,
but it's not going to be a team. I'm not kidding the thunder you're
telling. I think I was gonna get to like the Lakers first before I
got down there. But yeah, no, I take your point. I
think it's I'll tell you what I'm what I'm not looking forward to is the
possibility of like it's March and it's like, you know, uh, Bill,
Booker and Durant have only played six games together. How are they gonna
gel in time for the playoffs? Like, I'm not excited for that possibility,
which is very much on the table based on how these these U Super
Team Trio things have worked over the last several years. Just thinking of Brooklyn,
particularly who's the fifth closer right now? I don't play out very over
the regular right regular season, but who's who are you picking to close as
that fifth spot as the closer? The first thought was was KBD, just
because he's got more size than say, like Gordon. But but I also
kind of think Okogi's gonna probably might start just to you go guard that guy,
like that'll be his job. I guess I'll say Bates, but but
that's it's him, it's Gordon, or it's it probably won't be a Kogi
closing, right What do you think? I think it's between Gordon and KBD.
Probably I'm with you. I was gonna say KBD two, which I
thought we might have separate answers there. I would look like I would look
at making it. Want an Abby is a name that I think should kind
of slink in there, and especially we could go you want to go extreme,
like isn't want an Abby and kb D because DeAndre it's on the beach.
Well, if you got real problems if that's the case, unless you've
traded eighten for like three others you like if Kevin Durand at the five is
a closing option, I think I think my problem, my concern is like
I don't think what Watson Abby is not go lock that guy down type of
if he's your four and then kbd's on the cord or Josh Akogi, I
just I just think you gotta have it almost I mean, we're sort of
just making the case over and over for KBD because and maybe to a lesser
extent of Kogi, like you gotta have one guy out there that if they're
in the finals against the Celtics or whatever. It's like, I guess you'd
be okay with Durant on Tatum or but like I think you'd just much rather
have a guy whose whole job it is to just go guard the best guy.
And I don't think you want to use book or beal or durant for
that. So, I mean that's the case for bats Yop. I think,
so to put a bone, it should they be the title favorites,
and if they're not, who is who should be the title favorite here?
I think it's gonna be boring, But I'm always just like I would just
say Denver should be the favorite, even though we have already said they got
worse and they weren't like some juggernaut and it's not there. I will argue
it's mostly not their fault. They got they couldn't pay Bruce Brown that money.
That doesn't happen. I don't like the Reggie Jackson deal. And I
would have brought Jeff Green back. I mean, like, why couldn't they,
Like I would have given him the two year mini MLI before I would
have given it to Reggie Jackson. Yeah, I just don't know what really
bad in the playoffs. But I mean Jackson didn't even play, so so
it's just like, yeah, but I can't be up in arms about letting
Jeff green leaves my point? No, No, well, I'm still I'm
picking Denver, I guess. I mean, do you feel I just have
too there's the downside is just still there for the Suns because doesn't exist for
the Nuggets. I think it is what it is. Yeah, they got
the best player in the world and they just want a title, and they
don't really have anybody that's still there that I would say, oh, drop
offs coming for that guy, you know. So I think I think it's
the safe pick they might be. I think my big concern with Denver's they
probably a substantially worst playoff team without Bruce Brown. I will say, though,
if you actually trust Michael Porter Junior, you don't whatever the health question,
that's the same thing with everybody then, or if you really believe in
Christian Brown, I don't. I don't think he's ever going to replace all
the things Bruce Brown did offensively. But if Christian Brown can replace like seventy
Bruce Brown gave you defensively and like he might even not better, he might
give you more optionality because Bruce Brown wasn't, Hey go lock up a should
sid go guard Jimmy Butler, like straight up like that wasn't that wasn't Bruce
Brown necessarily, So there's that risk. But for the regular season they're gonna
be fine. And also even for the playoffs. Is their rotation was so
short that if you're just able to replace Bruce Brown with two guys, so
it's Christian Brown. And does Reggie Jackson give you enough? Do you acquire
a backup point guard somehow on the trade market? So the Nuggets, it's
not even close for me, By the way, the Nugget should be the
title favorites. And I think it's a more during interesting question is well,
does Phoenix belong in that number two spot or should we be You know,
you could say Boston, but like Boston has its own questions, I think
Milwaukee where it's just how different are they leading in the next year, Like
we're gonna have the same unless Malik Beasley really pops with them, which is
possible. I don't know how different Lee we should feel about that roster Miami
if they don't get Dame like's Cleveland coming, the Knicks didn't get drastically better,
So it's I think it's fair to say Phoenix should be the number two.
I might trust more like the floor of a Boston still or maybe even
like do we trust the floor of the Warriors a little bit more about them?
I will say they belong above the Clippers for sure. I'm just like
I'm out, I'm out of the Clippers business right now. Yeah. No,
I think I would probably have Denver and like a tier below that with
like I mean, you could probably like five or six teams that I would
view like pretty similarly and Phoenix would be in that in that tier. That
That's how I'll like non answer your question of are the number two that we
have? Mercifully we're gonna end this. Uh, when you didn't mention,
you didn't take us out in the sense of whether you're listening to part one
or part Yeah, no, I don't know whether you listen to part one
or part two. Neither of us knows which ways up at this point.
And if we seem really loopy at the end of a short hour long podcast,
it's because this is actually part of a much longer podcast we did.
Uh. Dan said this at the top, and he always says it,
and I always say it. Uh. Follow us on all of our socials
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And yeah, thanks everybody. We're going to close this with a shout
out to Frank Nilikina and an apology to char Down.