WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:45.759 Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am your host, 2 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:52.039 Alejandro Rojas, and I am joined by Jason. I don't know what a 3 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:58.359 bit of a cold McClellan. That's probably appropriate for today. It's kind of 4 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:03.640 a long kind of name type of thing, but yeah, Jason, kind 5 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.359 of a cold McClellan. Because you got some sniffles this morning, I guess, 6 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:10.000 yeah, just a little bit. Perhaps it has something to do with 7 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:12.719 the weather warming up here in Boise and the big weather change. We went 8 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:18.400 from the low fifties to the high seventies, actually did a quick jump. 9 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.719 Cool. Yeah, it's getting warmer everywhere. Because I had family in from 10 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:27.319 Colorado and they're in the seventies. They returned to some nice weather and out 11 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:33.000 here it's already in the nineties. It's been hot, like it's already like 12 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.959 eighty something degrees out right now in the morning, and it's really warm. 13 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:42.079 So and everything's been pollinating and growing, and yeah, had some allergies earlier, 14 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:47.599 but it seems warm. Then there's still some of the places around the 15 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.680 country that are getting snow. So weather's all screwed up. Yeah, weather's 16 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:56.239 all jacked. We're just jacking up this planet dude, thanks a lot. 17 00:01:56.280 --> 00:02:00.439 Aliens, where are you? Yeah? A little help here, guys throw 18 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:07.439 us a freaking bone here. So speaking of aliens are well, I should 19 00:02:07.479 --> 00:02:13.800 mention I should apologize to the listeners for not having a show last week, 20 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.840 and that was just because my family was in town, so I was busy. 21 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.439 I thought I was going to be able to pull something off, but 22 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.000 I decided to go to Sadona instead and it was beautiful. Luckily it wasn't 23 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:28.879 in the nineties yet, but we got to hike and everything and it was 24 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:35.960 really nice. So you all had to sacrifice by not having a show. 25 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:40.840 But we're back this week and our guest is Larry Holcomb. He wrote the 26 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:46.599 book The Presidents and UFOs, A Secret History from Obama or from FDR to 27 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:53.000 Obama. And what's interesting about this is, first of all, everybody kind 28 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:58.280 of thinks of Grant Cameron as the President's and UFOs guy, but he's kind 29 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.639 of moved on, and after all these years of him investigating, he hasn't 30 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:06.360 written a book. So this guy went ahead and did it and it got 31 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.879 printed by Saint Martin's Press, which is a larger publisher, and it's always 32 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:15.319 really exciting when a UFO book gets published by a larger publisher, because one 33 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:20.439 they do good, you know, like Leslie Kaynes Who's was a New York 34 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.919 Times bestseller, and two you know, it gets to a wider audience, 35 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.719 so a lot more people learn. I'm always excited about that, don't you 36 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:31.560 think they're? Jason absolutely, Yeah, and a topic like this, you 37 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:35.599 and I have talked about it. I wish Grant would have jumped on this 38 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:38.840 a while ago. But yeah, such a cool topic that definitely appeals to 39 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:45.280 the wider general public, and having it published by such a big publisher is 40 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:49.080 a great thing. Yeah. So we talked to Larry about what he did 41 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.240 to research and write the book. Interesting enough, as he'll tell us, 42 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:57.439 he didn't lean very much on Grant Cameron's research, which is good on his 43 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.240 part. Now, I got to say, there is a lot of it 44 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:05.960 covers the mythology around presidents as well, which I think is important, you 45 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:12.000 know, so it's not just the really hard credible what we know, which 46 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.520 I think there's a lot that we do know that is credible around presidents. 47 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:19.720 Perhaps a book with just that would be really interesting, but probably, as 48 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:23.720 you know, someone should do. He covered all of the mythology and the 49 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:30.079 surrounding, you know, alleged leaked stuff and everything that people think around presidents. 50 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.120 But overall, it's a good read and I think it's something that everybody 51 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:38.160 should have as a reference. A pretty good book. So we talked to 52 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:43.360 him about that, and we met him in Roswell. I don't know, 53 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:47.079 I think you were out there. Do you remember meeting him. I don't 54 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.800 know. He met so many people. I'm not not recalling him. No, 55 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:55.160 Yeah, he was a guy who had a table and he even wrote 56 00:04:55.160 --> 00:05:00.160 about that because he wrote about how interesting enough it was meeting antone, you 57 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:04.120 know when I that helped inspire the book, especially Antonio, because Antonio got 58 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:10.839 him in touch with someone who inspired him to essentially write this book. And 59 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.879 we'll talk to Larry all about that. So kind of cool, kind of 60 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.879 very cool. Yeah, so really neat so open minds even got in the 61 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:25.439 book. We helped inspire it without even knowing, so neat stuff. So 62 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:28.040 we'll talk to Larry in just a little bit. Before we do that, 63 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.920 though, Jason and I will talk about some of the UFO news over the 64 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:36.199 last couple of weeks, And do you want to start off which story do 65 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:40.480 you want to cover. Sure, I'll start off. There's been, you 66 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.920 know, so much happening with astrobiology lately, Alejandro, and I know it 67 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:47.480 seems like the less sexy thing to talk about, but as you and I 68 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:51.079 always bring up, these things are happening at such a rapid pace, and 69 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:59.120 more research groups are doing more studies and using more tools to discover so much 70 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:04.120 more to search for extraterrestrials. And the story I want to talk that I 71 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:11.199 want to mention this week reminds me of you, Alejandro, because one of 72 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:14.959 your not one of your favorite expressions, but certainly something that I hear you 73 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.839 say now and again is what the heck? And that's exactly what this is. 74 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:24.079 This project is called HECK. It's the hunt for exo moons with Kepler, 75 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:28.480 and what these scientists are doing. We've talked about the Kepler Spased Telescope 76 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:32.560 so many times on this show, fantastic tool that NASA has to search for 77 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:40.120 planets outside our Solar system. And what HECK is doing is it's using data 78 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:46.399 collected by Kepler, but also using a supercomputer with that data, they're coming 79 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:55.680 up with these possibilities where exomons could exist around exoplanets, pairing that with data 80 00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:01.519 from Kepler and finding out these areas that most likely host exomoons that could be 81 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.439 habitable themselves. And we've looked using our own solar system as an example. 82 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:10.800 We found that the places in our own solar system that are the most likely 83 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:16.000 places to harbor alien life are moons. So if that's the case in our 84 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.879 own solar system, why not apply that same principle to other solar systems as 85 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:26.680 well. So that's what they're doing, further enhancing or amplifying the possibility or 86 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:31.800 places in the universe where extraterrestrial life might exist. Now Alhandra, I'm excited 87 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:36.800 about that. I'm glad somebody's doing it. But there's so many places right 88 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:40.560 here in our solar system and closer to home that I wish they would all 89 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.120 get together, all of these scientists, and focus their efforts and money, 90 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:49.000 all the dollars on these tasks to do something closer to home that has a 91 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:54.040 better chance of success. Mm hm, I agree, it's good that somebody's 92 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:57.399 doing it. I guess yeah. I mean a lot of scientists have to 93 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.000 look at something, and some of these guys are just looking at telescope data 94 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:05.639 and stuff like that, so not really you know, physical wheels on the 95 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.680 ground as a you know, robot on the ground like we do now, 96 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:16.720 but it is I think I share in what you're talking about in the excitement 97 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:22.639 how even the moons in our own solar system are now so promising when it 98 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.279 comes to possible life, and it's extremely exciting. People like you and I 99 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.399 knew about, you know, these moons that are out there and like eu 100 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:37.200 Ropo or something like that with water under the surface, but now it's getting 101 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:43.240 more mainstream with NASA looking at it and less sci fi, and it's extremely 102 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:46.639 exciting all of the places right here in our own solar system that feel like 103 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:54.320 they're so close that show you know, high potential for extraterrestrial life. So 104 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.440 it is really exciting. And I think, you know, when you feel 105 00:08:56.440 --> 00:09:01.080 like you're on the cusp of it, it's like, guys, focus on 106 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:05.039 this one thing, I know, make it happen, I know. But 107 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.240 you know, with this broad approach and you know, all of the potentially 108 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:16.799 habitable worlds, which include planets and moons, I think we're just getting closer 109 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.919 to the to the public realization that life is everywhere and it's important work, 110 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:26.559 because if life is discovered on a local moon like Enceladus or something, then 111 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.519 it just that work is going to be even more important because it's going to 112 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.039 be more likely that their work is going to be fruitful, that there will 113 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.759 be other moons with that are have life, and perhaps even ewoks. A 114 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.879 forest moon out there with ewoks, hopefully with ewoks. That would be amazing. 115 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:48.360 Yeah, they are adorable. I would love to be friends with ewoks. 116 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.919 E works are cool. They know how to party too. And I'm 117 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:56.480 glad you brought this up because you know, one of the stories that I 118 00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:00.399 wrote that did terrible that nobody looked at well, actually I shouldn't that there 119 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.919 are over a thousands people who looked at it but didn't do as well as 120 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.360 others. I think it's so exciting, and that is that the Library of 121 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.799 Congress and everything they're doing to get scientists together to talk about astrobiology. In 122 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.399 this case, they're doing something called the Blumberg Dialogues, and this is just 123 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:20.240 the first of many meetings they're going to have throughout the year where they're talking 124 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:26.600 about, you know, the discovery of extraterrestrial life and its effects on religion. 125 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:30.360 And I think it's really smart of them to get with these scholars to 126 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:37.120 talk about the theology and the philosophy so that when I think that a lot 127 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.720 of scientists are agreeing that we're on the cusp of discovering, you know, 128 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:48.279 some microorganisms, some kind of official announcement of life elsewhere and what affects that 129 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:56.559 will have, and being prepared for that so it can be easily accepted even 130 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:03.559 amongst you know, religions, because certainly there can be friction in philosophy and 131 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:05.960 theology when it comes to that sort of thing. And then the more we've 132 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:11.039 worked that out, you know, the less I think then combative then religious 133 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:18.000 organizations may be to the science that's being done. The discussions are definitely starting. 134 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.639 We're seeing more and more of these these public forums gathering, gathering scientists 135 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:30.240 and officials in a public forum in an official setting and starting to explore these 136 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:35.399 these issues that will arise, and perhaps already have arisen. But we're seeing 137 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:43.279 multiple events like this every year happening with prominent scientists discussing the extraterrestrial issues. 138 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.360 And I love it. The Library of Congress is doing a lot of this. 139 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.159 So if you live in Washington, d C. You've got to attend 140 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:54.080 these. We'll post more about them. But we've got links on our story 141 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:58.480 about this too, And if you've went, let us know how that went 142 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:03.399 and you know what the discussions were like and what you thought. That would 143 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.279 be really cool if you could share that with us. So, yeah, 144 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:13.399 exciting stuff when it comes to astrobiology, very very exciting. Well, do 145 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.639 you have a story to talk about? Yeah, isn't astrobiology? Yeah? 146 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:20.360 I want to talk about UFOs baby. And this is actually a follow up 147 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.399 to a story that you wrote. So you had written about this lady who 148 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:31.559 had seen, you know, a couple orbs and she videotaped them for about 149 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.600 twenty seconds. Really what she videotape was interesting, but hard to really make 150 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:41.799 anything out of it. She said the two orbs combined and moved apart several 151 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:48.279 times before shooting off into the distance. And this is near Leicester, I 152 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:54.000 believe, is how it said in the town of Hinckley, and it happened 153 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.919 in some of the towns around the Barwell and Earl Shilton where these people had 154 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:05.480 seen it. Now what's exciting is that the Hinckley Times wrote about it and 155 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:09.519 other witnesses have come forward to say, hey, I saw that thing too, 156 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.559 so it's really cool, including a police officer who was off duty who 157 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:20.639 says he watched these things hover silently over the town of Barwell for about a 158 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:26.320 minute. He said they did not resemble normal aircraft. And all of them 159 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.919 say about the same thing that they saw these two lights that were floating around 160 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.960 and then took off, and none of them feel as though they were Chinese 161 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.600 lanterns or anything, so kind of a cool story. Really, it's great, 162 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:45.120 you know, to get this corroborating witness testimony that possibly, you know, 163 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.240 something really weird happened. It's always really exciting when we get follow ups 164 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:56.360 to sighting reports. It's even more exciting when we have additional witnesses who substantiate 165 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.240 the sighting. So that is really cool. And I want to point out 166 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:03.759 that one of these witnesses who came forward says he was walking his dog when 167 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.360 he saw the UFOs, So we see this so many times with UFO sightings. 168 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.159 So people, what does this tell you walk your dogs more and when 169 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:15.960 you walk your dogs, watch the sky. Yeah, I mean anything that 170 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:20.039 gets people outside, so we always have people. I was out having a 171 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:26.759 smoke, but it's much healthier on many many levels psychologically, you know, 172 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.519 physiologically to walk a dog than to smoke. So yeah, walk your dog, 173 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.399 go jogging, but watch the sky and you'll probably see a UFO eventually. 174 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.799 Yep, that is good advice. Mm hmm. Now there's one more 175 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.000 story I want. I'm gonna start recommending that to people actually when they say 176 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.720 where can I go to see a UFO or how do I see a UFO? 177 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.120 Good point, walk your dog because we get asked that a lot. 178 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:52.720 That's right, and I usually say go to places where people see UFOs a 179 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:58.000 lot. But walking a dog is another good, healthy alternative. I like 180 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:03.440 it. Dogs are cool too. Anyway, I want to ask you about 181 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.919 this one real quick before we're done. And this is kind of an exciting 182 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.200 one that I think is really strange. That's why I want to get your 183 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:15.519 opinion on it. We talked about it a bit on spacing out, But 184 00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:24.159 this one with the mod chase helicopters allegedly chasing four UFOs in England. Now, 185 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:28.799 the witness actually got a picture of this UFO and it looks strange. 186 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:33.519 Although the picture they got only shows one object, it doesn't show four, 187 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:37.279 and the one picture it shows with the helicopter. It's kind of dubious. 188 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.840 I mean, the helicopter's way off in the distance and it's a tiny little 189 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.879 helicopter, so I'm not so sure about that. But what is in that 190 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.799 picture is weird. It's this ring shaped thing. Yeah, it's really weird 191 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:54.200 because it's a very finally defined I don't know, it's a perfect, perfect 192 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.639 ring. Some people have suggested that it's a smoke ring, and you know, 193 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.200 we've seen that before in photos, and they can stay tightly formed rings 194 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:07.919 in the sky for long periods of time. I'm not sure that's what we're 195 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:11.120 seeing in this photo, but it's a possibility. But I agree with you. 196 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:14.679 I mean, for people who are out on a picnic or whatever and 197 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.559 seeing these objects that obviously surprise them, they took the time to go in 198 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.919 and grab the camera and take photos. Photos aren't that great. And for 199 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:30.519 being confident that it was an mod helicopter chasing these UFOs. Really based on 200 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.320 the photos, we don't get a good enough look at it to determine if 201 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:37.159 it's an MD helicopter or not. But you're right, I mean for saying 202 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:41.440 there were four UFOs. We never see a photo showing four UFOs together. 203 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.960 So there are some suspect things with this whole case, but the photos that 204 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:51.759 were captured are interesting. Mm hmm, yeah, ring shaped object. When 205 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:56.039 I look at that, I cannot, you know, certainly not immediately say 206 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.000 this is that or the other. And I haven't seen much good speculation either 207 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.359 on what that they might be. Yeah, we had the incidents with the 208 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.359 ring circles, but those were close to the ground and near an event where 209 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:12.640 they were shooting off cannons or something that would create that circle. So yeah, 210 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.680 pretty weird. Pretty interesting. So yeah, and one other thing, 211 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:19.920 I mean with the with the witness testimony, you know, with this photo 212 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:25.559 seeing a smoke ring, that could be confusing to people. It looks weird 213 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:26.720 in the sky. They would take a picture of it, so that's weird, 214 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:32.920 that's a a UFO. But in this case, the witnesses do say 215 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:37.799 that they saw the UFOs zoom off. So that's their testimony. You can 216 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.759 believe it if you want. If you know this is a smoke ring, 217 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:48.480 then the witnesses are fabricating evidence and they're just creating a hoax. But we 218 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.079 don't know that that's the case here. I'm just pointing that out. M 219 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:56.240 M. Yeah, although it is completely possible it is a smoke ring, 220 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.559 So I don't know. Hopefully, you know what helped with the last case 221 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:03.759 where you know kind of definitive that it was a smoke ring, was other 222 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.119 people came forward and said, wow, I was in the area, you 223 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:07.599 know, this was what was going on here. It was a smoke ring, 224 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.400 and so that case was solved. So hopefully people will come forward. 225 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.839 I know we have a lot of lead listeners in England, so go check 226 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.599 out the story, see what you think, and then watch our latest edition 227 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:23.839 of spacing out where we talk more about it and you could see that, 228 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:29.720 see more of the pictures and stuff, and then I see what you think 229 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:37.440 and let us know if you know something about this, right yes, please? 230 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:42.359 So Otherwise, there's a lot of great UFO sightings from mof on that 231 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:47.039 we posted in the last week as well that Roger Marsh has written about, 232 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.359 so go check those out. None of them had any pictures or videos or 233 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.920 else we probably would have talked about them, but they're still very interesting accounts 234 00:18:55.079 --> 00:19:00.240 nonetheless, so check that out. And was there any other news is that 235 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.880 you wanted to mention my friend No, sir, that is it for me. 236 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.119 All right, We'll go take some vitamin C, maybe try to channel 237 00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:14.359 a healing extraterrestrial to help you with your cold, and I hope you feel 238 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.680 better, buddy, Thank you so much. Yep, all right, we'll 239 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.319 talk to you next week then, Jason, I hope so h yeah, 240 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.240 unless something comes up we go on vacation again or something, right, but 241 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:32.559 I'll be healthy, good, good. So let's go ahead and talk to 242 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:37.599 Larry Holcombe. I am very happy to welcome to the show Larry Holcomb. 243 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:45.119 Hello, Larry. Hello Eleandro. And you'll have to excuse me for the 244 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:52.759 stumbling there a bit. My family name on my mother's side was Alexander. 245 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:59.519 Oh, every time, every time I say Aleandro, I want to say 246 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:04.799 Alexander. So it's yeah, it's pardon. If you notice that that hesitation, 247 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.160 you'll know what's going on. No problem. If you want to use 248 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:15.759 Alexander, you can, especially like people from Greece or or even I think 249 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:21.920 yeah, especially from other countries who Eastern europe Pean countries who are used to 250 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.920 Alexander often will call me that. So so that's not a problem. No, 251 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.720 No, I think I think I can have Eleandro Okay, yeah, 252 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:34.440 here, you're doing just fine with it. So well, thank you for 253 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.480 coming on the show. We've talked occasionally in the past, and uh, 254 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.640 and we'll get to it. But you even mentioned that in the book, 255 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:47.039 so I was very flattered to see that. But we'll talk more in detail 256 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:52.079 there, but before we do, I want to talk about how you know 257 00:20:52.160 --> 00:21:00.279 your background and how you got interested in the topic of UFOs. Well, 258 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:06.519 it goes back to when I was a junior high school and which was in 259 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:11.880 the late fifties. Unfortunately, I guess it's fortunately I'm still around. But 260 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:17.799 I read a couple of major Donald Keyhole's books, Flying Sauces from ot Space 261 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:22.200 and Flying Sorces were Real, I believe, with the two books, and 262 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:27.240 I became hooked with his passion and believability and the fact that the Air Force 263 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.960 was not telling what they knew and so forth. And then I saw him 264 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.920 on the Armstrong Circle Theater and I saw his sound cut off, and I 265 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.920 knew from that point on that you know, I was a youngster, and 266 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:47.079 I thought he was going to be on the Armstrong Circle Theater and you'd see 267 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:52.039 banner headlines around the world, and as it turned out that the Air Force 268 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:59.079 since the show. So from then on I knew that there was something to 269 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:06.559 it, that the the phenomenon was real, and I became uh infatuated with 270 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:12.880 it. And it really became a silent application with me, because back in 271 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:18.640 those days, if you believed in flying saucress as they were called, or 272 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:26.000 later UFOs, you looked at as a somewhat of a nut. So I 273 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:34.799 did it silently. I was only interested in the mainline research by people such 274 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:42.440 such as Stan Friedman, Uh the great atmospheric physicist, doctor James E. 275 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:49.000 McDonald and of course UH doctor j Allen Heine. These these folks jack lay 276 00:22:51.319 --> 00:22:56.480 and I was not interested in the in the fringe and in really my my 277 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:07.359 basic throat trust in research has been with has been in flying sauces slash UFOs. 278 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.200 When I retired, took early retirement a few years ago, I wanted 279 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:21.680 to write, and I wrote a novel. Looking for a plot for the 280 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:26.119 novel, I decided, you've been that I've been studying the UFOs and government 281 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.319 cover o for years, when I'd use that as a plot for the the 282 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:40.039 book called Great River Disclosure. And from that, of course, the story 283 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:44.680 goes on that the Ufo Museum in Roswell saw the book, they liked it, 284 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.920 invited me to speak as an author, and I've been coming every year 285 00:23:48.000 --> 00:24:03.720 since. So and when I met Staying and dun Semant and you and Antonio, 286 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:11.119 and I mentioned bib emenager Or the the documentary UFO's Past, Present in 287 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:18.119 the Future that I thought was was a outstanding, unique, unique documentary from 288 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.720 the standpoint that it seemed to have the approval of the government. There was 289 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:30.839 no counterpoint in the documentary and it and it having what seemed to be government 290 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:41.119 approval and also stating that UFOs uh some UFOs are conceivably extraterrestrial in nature. 291 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:48.880 So I contacted bib Emenagor. The idea for the for this book came a 292 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:57.920 vote. I started doing research, spending time in presidential libraries, which people 293 00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:03.200 may not enjoy a great deal. But anyway, that's a that's a quick 294 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.880 summary of where we are and how the book came about. What about your 295 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.559 professional career. You mostly worked in sales and you owned your own company for 296 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:22.359 a period of time. Yeah, I went to I was in enlisted in 297 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.160 the in the the Army, the Army National Guard after high school. After 298 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:34.559 I finished my duty with them. I enrolled in the Richmond Professional Institute which 299 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:42.680 is now Virginia Commonwealth University of ECU, and it took journalism for two years. 300 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:53.119 But I had unfortunately established some some debt that I thought that I finally 301 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.440 I had to get away and go and get a job and bring in some 302 00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:03.960 income. So yeah, I did that. I started in commercial in sales. 303 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:10.559 I was in sales of commercial construction products. Later started my own manufacturing 304 00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:19.799 rep agency, and about nineteen ninety nine I got an offer from one of 305 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:26.400 the manufacturers that I represented, one of the so called offers that you can't 306 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:32.480 refuse to go to work for them and start a military sales division. And 307 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.759 that's what I did, because I was the only one of their sales reps, 308 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:44.079 the independent reps around the country that was selling to the military and understood 309 00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:48.559 the military. So I started a military sales division for them and stayed with 310 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:57.400 that until two thousand and six and spent about one hundred thousand air miles a 311 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:03.400 year sitting in airplanes going at the other military basis. But it was a 312 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.440 fun chibt M. So you retired and became a writer, and you must 313 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:15.880 have done pretty well for this book to get published by Saint Martin's. I 314 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:19.400 liked the emmenager story very well, and I liked the documentary very well. 315 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:27.480 And as you, I'm sure you know, in the publishing world of an 316 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:33.400 unknown writer, to get an agent, a literary agent is about as easy 317 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:41.519 as flying flying to the moon by batting your arms. It's it's almost impossible. 318 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.400 But I was very fortunate I had an idea for the book. I 319 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:49.480 sent it to several literary agents. When got back to me and said, 320 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:56.640 if you would like to take the time to write up a proposal for a 321 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:04.799 work of nonfiction on this, I'll send you an outline and you work on 322 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.839 it and get back to me. And I did, and I worked on 323 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.640 the outline, which I think ended up being about eighteen thousand words. I 324 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:21.759 sent it to him and he, after two three months emailed me and said, 325 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:22.799 I've got a sale for your book. He said, as as a 326 00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:32.599 matter of fact, I've got four publishers in Wow, and Saint Martin's was 327 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.680 gave me the best offer, and that's who we went with. And they've 328 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:42.799 been great. I mean, it's working with a name, big time publishing 329 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:48.640 host and having all of our support and having a publicist to work with, 330 00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:56.000 and they're marketing people, and I'm working with Mark Resnick, who's executive editor 331 00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.000 at Saint Martin's. Has been great. I mean, it's it's a whole 332 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:08.720 different world. And and I can't say enough about having an agent who who 333 00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:17.720 has been marvelous in getting these things done for me. As a matter of 334 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:22.759 fact, he just sent me an email yesterday telling me that we have received 335 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:30.839 an offer from a Japanese publisher to to buy the to buy the rights of 336 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.960 the book, to publish it in Japan. And we also the book is 337 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:41.880 also has been sold to an Italian publisher. So it's it's we we have 338 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:47.920 not only here in in the States, but we will be published in Italy 339 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.799 and Japan. Wow. Great, So you had this interest in this topic 340 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:57.279 for decades. Why now, why did you decide this is a time where 341 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:06.559 I'm kind of coming out of my UFO it uh to do this? Uh? 342 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.880 Why now? Why? Why coming out of the closet? Uh? 343 00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:14.400 I didn't really feel like I was coming out of the closet now because I 344 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:18.440 think now people are very savvy. I'm talking a little bit back in the 345 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.880 fifties and sixties. If you talked about UFOs you were frowned on or even 346 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:27.039 the seventies. But I think we've become far more savvy. You know, 347 00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:33.880 we've lived through the nuclear age, We've we've we've lived through. We are 348 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:41.519 much more tuned to uh uh what's going on in space and and and what 349 00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:49.079 you know, with with all of the uh space telescopes that we have and 350 00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:56.720 new there's almost weekly we're we're we're finding a new wonders in space and things 351 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:03.079 that we believed as a positive or no longer positive that there's they're new theories 352 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:10.480 and and so I think that overall people if they found out, if it 353 00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:15.519 was if it became public, if it was disclosed, if disclosure came about, 354 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.880 I think people would simply shrug their shoulders and say, gee, that's 355 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:25.680 interesting, move along with life. I think we've become that sophisticated. So 356 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.079 it wasn't too hard for me to write a book. I be sure people 357 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:36.680 laughed a little bit still and snicker, but I don't care. I believe. 358 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:45.559 I believe in the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I've studied a long time. I 359 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:53.000 believe in it. I mustang believer in it. And if people want to 360 00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:59.680 laugh at my belief, so be it. I don't care. So I'm 361 00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:04.119 happy, you know, to have found out that, you know, the 362 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.799 you had mentioned it was when you got to meet Antonio and I. Antonio, 363 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.480 of course, you used to work with Open Minds, a colleague of 364 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:15.519 mine, still a friend. He's kind of become a hermit. In fact, 365 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:19.480 I think I'm the only one who actually talks to him occasionally because he's 366 00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:23.759 just kind of hit it out and his apartment nearby out here. But we 367 00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:29.200 were at Roswell. I've been there every year. Antonio used to come as 368 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:34.799 well, and we got to meet you, and that meeting, especially with 369 00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:39.960 Antonio, for you became important, very important, and it was kind of 370 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:45.480 the impetus to this book. Yeah, yeah, it really the book. 371 00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:52.519 When I sent the as I said before, when I sent my idea for 372 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:54.680 a book to this agent, the agent got back to me and said, 373 00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:00.920 you know, I think this is a great idea, but I don't think 374 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.359 you've got enough information here to make a book out of what you What you 375 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.880 have that is the Emmenager story, the story of the documentary, and the 376 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:15.279 story of making the documentary and all the background. Uh, he said, 377 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:20.720 I think if you could, and this had to do with the next administration. 378 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:28.240 Of course, if you included all the presidents modern presidents from fd R 379 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:34.400 forward, then I think you could you could have something and and uh and 380 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.480 and I'll send you an ode line on on on how to do that if 381 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:44.599 you're interested. Well, my initial thought was, Gee, to try to 382 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:51.960 uh get information on presidents, it's next to impossible. I mean it's it's 383 00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:58.240 you get bits and pieces of stuff, but uh, you go into presidential 384 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.559 library, into the archive. I was in presidential libraries, and if you 385 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:09.039 get a file that should have some really good information in it in redacted, 386 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.280 it's taken out of the file. So to find the smoking gun in the 387 00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:22.159 presidential library is next to impossible. And to get solid information on presidents is 388 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:27.440 I knew would be very difficult. But the more I thought of it, 389 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.760 the more I thought, you know, here's an opportunity. When I looked 390 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:36.679 at it, and I could see that even though the presidents, some of 391 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.159 the presidents were not real fond of each other, there was still a common 392 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:47.159 bond, a thread that I saw running through all the presidential administrations, especially 393 00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:55.480 the shift and power from what the Truman administration had set up in as far 394 00:34:55.519 --> 00:35:04.360 as this study of the UFO also issue, I saw that eroding in the 395 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:12.239 Eisenhower administration, where presidents where the power or the control of UFO information was 396 00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:20.199 being taken away from the executive branch and going into the intelligence community and the 397 00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:24.440 military industrial complex. And I became fascinated with that, and I could see 398 00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:34.039 a story starting to weave from that. And that's that's hand. Although many 399 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:38.800 of the facts, many of the sightings and events that I listened in the 400 00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:45.800 book are known by you and other euthologists, what I wanted to do was 401 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:52.719 write a book that would address the people that I call the the people that 402 00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:59.679 have an interest but little background knowledge of the subject, and that this would 403 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:08.400 give them an overall picture using presidential administrations. The casual observer is what I 404 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:15.800 call them, and this would be a book that would It's a very complicated 405 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:23.039 subject that goes in so many different directions that to try to compress it into 406 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:29.719 one book was difficult. But I thought that I could give a general overview 407 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:37.639 and people would recognize that the Air Force was deeply involved, even though they 408 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:43.000 claimed they weren't, they were deeply involved in this subject and the discourse within 409 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:50.079 the air force between those that had researched the subject and those that hadn't, 410 00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:57.000 and all of this was fascinating to me. So I hope I've achieved my 411 00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:07.719 goal in writing a book that will be somewhat of a textbook to the casual 412 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:19.920 observer to get a better understanding of the basic UFO phenomenon. I was curious 413 00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:24.440 at the time when you started writing the book, were you familiar with Grant 414 00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:32.599 Cameron's work. Yes. And the reason I ask is because I think a 415 00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:40.639 lot of people assume that you would rely on his work, but you actually 416 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.559 didn't. You went out and did your own work. You visited these libraries 417 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:53.840 yourself. I read a lot of grand Cameron's work. I often wondered why 418 00:37:53.880 --> 00:38:00.079 he had never written a book on the subject. I've read, I've read 419 00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:07.840 his articles on his website, and I did contact him and ask him a 420 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:12.119 couple of questions, and he said he'd have to dig into his archives and 421 00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.800 he'd get back to me, and he never did, so I just sort 422 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:22.800 of let it drop at that. I know he's he's a hard worker. 423 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:32.159 He's certainly done a lot and work with the history of presidents and UFOs. 424 00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:39.679 But I didn't want to push the issue. I guess Aleandro I just didn't 425 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:44.760 because maybe he thought I was walking on his side of the street. I 426 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:46.840 don't know. Well, I think it was probably more along the lines of 427 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:52.360 from knowing him very well, that's an old chapter of his life and he's 428 00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:57.280 just moved on to other things. And the way he is, he's so 429 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:01.760 focused on right here and right now that he's all about what he's doing now. 430 00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:12.800 And that's interesting. Yeah, because his new book, The Name which 431 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:20.320 escaped me early fifty one and the government to cover up, and you know, 432 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:23.960 it really doesn't go into the president, right, which is what he's 433 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:30.920 known for. So yeah, I did want to get into Emmenager because, 434 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:36.000 like you said, Antonio got you in touch with Emmenager and what he told 435 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:40.559 you, I mean, really had had an impact on you. And it 436 00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:50.000 seems like even really shaped kind of in a way your understanding of at least 437 00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:53.000 how you felt what was going on in the background with presidents. What was 438 00:39:53.039 --> 00:40:00.440 it. Maybe if you could share with us what Emmenager told you and how 439 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:13.559 it related to well. Emmenager was called by Richard Nixon. Let me start 440 00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:19.920 this way. Richard Nixon, who is looked as a villain now by many, 441 00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:23.199 many people. When he was president in his first term, he was 442 00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:28.519 extremely popular, extremely popular. As a matter of fact, he was elected 443 00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:32.360 re elected by an almost historic Lands South landslide, So that means he was 444 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:40.400 very powerful. And I think that of the presidents after Eisenhower, Nixon probably 445 00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:47.360 did have a pretty good end a pretty good background knowledge of the UFO issue 446 00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:58.280 because he was vice president for eight years under Eisenhower and had a great deal 447 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:02.840 of respect I think, within the intelligence community. So I think that Nixon 448 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.119 may be the exception to the rule of later presidents that were kept out of 449 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:16.760 the loop of knowledge. Anyway, Emmenager was a fraternity brother of HR Bob 450 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:24.639 Harleman, Nixon's chief of staff, and Emmenager was very successful in the advertising 451 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:31.280 business in Los Angeles with Gray Advertising. Bank of America was one of his 452 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:38.079 clients. Well, Harliman knew of this success. The committee to re elect 453 00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:45.519 the president wanted to make a documentary. Now, what I don't know is 454 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:52.679 if Nixon told them he wanted a documentary made on UFOs and he wanted some 455 00:41:53.000 --> 00:42:00.840 level of disclosure to be made. That's entirely possible when you think of his 456 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:06.559 connection with Jackie Gleeson, who was a close friend and who was deeply involved 457 00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:14.159 in the UFO issue and was upset because the government was not disclosing what they 458 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:22.760 knew, and so had he had Nixon with Gleeson. Nixon had also been 459 00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:31.480 very successful in opening relations with China, which was a absolutely closed country, 460 00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:38.239 so he broke that idice. He started to taunt with the Soviet Union. 461 00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:44.360 And in a lot of respects, I know that a lot of people hate 462 00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:46.159 Nixon, and he certainly had a lot of flaws, but in a lot 463 00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:52.119 of respects, or in some respects, he conceivably made this a safer world 464 00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.159 to live in for a period of time. Anyway, he had a great 465 00:42:55.199 --> 00:43:04.800 deal of power and to with all of his accomplishments. If he were to 466 00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:15.760 come out and and make disclosure of an extraterrestrial presence known to the public in 467 00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:22.239 some way, in some manner or to some level, it would really have 468 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:37.239 added to his historical presidency. And Immenager was brought in as a consultant to 469 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:40.360 make a documentary. Now he was told that it was just to be some 470 00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:46.239 scientific documentary and he and his partner Alan Sandler will run all over the United 471 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:52.079 States looking at at secret projects that the military were involved in. I know 472 00:43:52.159 --> 00:44:00.320 it was a laser research at Wright Patterson and research with the demolition using dolphins 473 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:10.800 and such things. But Bob was then taken and his partner Alan Sandler was 474 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:19.239 taken to Northern Air Force Base in a very secure facility and told would they 475 00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:27.360 consider making a documentary on UFOs? And they were stunned, and they were 476 00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:32.000 told by the official the rand the facility, whose name was Paul Chardle, 477 00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:40.239 that if they agreed to do so, they would be given something like six 478 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:49.280 hundred feet of sixteen millimeter film that showed an actual landing at Holland Air Force 479 00:44:49.360 --> 00:45:01.159 Base of a extraterrestrial UFO flying saucer. And obviously they were stunned and taken 480 00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:04.400 back as them nagger. As Bob told me, he said, you know, 481 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.079 I didn't know anything about flying sausage, and then the only thing I 482 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:10.639 knew was what my wife Margaret brought home from the tabloids from the supermarket. 483 00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:19.199 And so anyway, they said, yes, they would, they would do 484 00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:23.440 it. They were flown to Washington to the where they went to the Pentagon 485 00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.960 and were met by several people that told them the smart thing for them to 486 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:34.920 do would be to get on clean flyback and lost ashes, keep had those 487 00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:39.880 out of this stuff. And the Sandler, according to Bob Sandler, had 488 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:45.480 enough of being browbeat and he said, give me a phone. I'm gonna 489 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.000 call the White House and get this straight and date right now. The White 490 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:51.079 As is the one that told us to come here. Well, at that 491 00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:54.679 point the mood changed. They were taking upstairs to see to the office of 492 00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:04.239 Colonel William Coleman, who was head of public relations Air Force public Relations, 493 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:07.320 and Colvin sort of gave him the same sort of speech. Then he took 494 00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:12.760 him into the office, set him down and told him about his own UFO 495 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:17.800 sighting that he had made as a pilot flying a B twenty five. I 496 00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:24.719 think. Later they were sent to write Patterson, where they met Colonel George 497 00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:37.239 Wyan Brenner, who was head of Air Force of the name escaped Me Foreign 498 00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:46.800 Technology Division and Wine Brunner. Emenager said he walked up to Winebrenner's desk and 499 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:54.599 said, Colonel Winebrenner, is it true that a UFO landed at Holloman Air 500 00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:59.719 Force Base and you're going to give us film money? And he said at 501 00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:01.719 that one Wine Brenner looked at him, got up from his desk, walked 502 00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:06.239 over to a chalkboard and drew a picture of a jet fighter. He said, 503 00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:08.639 this is a meg gentleman, and we don't know a damn thing about 504 00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:15.920 it, but the Russians know all about all of our aircraft. And he 505 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:20.480 said he went on like that, Bob Emmenager said, winem Bunner went on 506 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.360 like that, and went on like that, And while he was talking, 507 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.599 he went over to a bookshelf and pulled a book down and handed it to 508 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.840 Emmanator and opened it to the front cover and in it was addressed to my 509 00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:40.480 good friend George Winebrenner from Jay Allen Heiney, and it was a book on 510 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:47.440 flying saucers. He gave the book back to wine Bronner. Winem Bunner talked 511 00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:51.480 on a few minutes, put the book up, thank him for coming, 512 00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:55.480 and I should have mate the door without saying a word about UFOs. And 513 00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:02.079 they were baffled. But what it told them was why Brunner was telling them 514 00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:07.480 that yes, everything everything you've heard is true. We have the film. 515 00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:15.599 But he didn't want to say anything in his office because they felt that the 516 00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:23.159 office all the offices there were bugged and people were listening to conversations. So 517 00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:30.760 that's a that's a brief. They made the they made the documentary. They 518 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:36.960 got funding from John D. MacArthur I think it was President of Banker's Life 519 00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:43.360 and Trust. They got funding to make the documentary. Everything was set to 520 00:48:43.400 --> 00:48:51.719 go. They hired they'd hired Rod Serling of The Twilight Zone to do is 521 00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:58.000 the narrator of the documentary. Everything was set to go, and they got 522 00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:00.920 a call from Bill Crothers so I think it was at the Whitas and said 523 00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:08.760 the use of the film has been withdrawn. And Emmenager was stunned, and 524 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:15.519 he said why and he was only told hes that the president in this Watergate 525 00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:21.360 matter has been the president has been consumed with this Watergate matter. He thinks 526 00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:27.039 that this would not be helpful now but would be detrimental. Go ahead and 527 00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:32.679 make the documentary. We'll open doors for you, will do whatever we can. 528 00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:40.440 And he could see why. Emma Nagger still was distressed, and he 529 00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:45.679 said, you can see at the end of it that this is what may 530 00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:52.960 happen or may have already happened, and you can show it from Alvin Air 531 00:49:52.000 --> 00:50:00.840 Force Base and have an animation of you of old landing, and that's exactly 532 00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.880 what happened at the end of the documentary. But it's clear that the government 533 00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:10.440 gave them support because you had a Colonel Coleman walk in the halls of the 534 00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:16.119 Pentagon and standing under the picture of what Vandenberg talking about, the very famous 535 00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:24.840 estimate of the situation, which has never been found. And as you well 536 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:30.760 know, you don't take film crews into the Pentagon and have a military even 537 00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:36.519 though Coleman was newly retired at that time, you don't have them do that. 538 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:45.079 You're not able to do that if you don't have government the support. 539 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.599 And so, as I said in the book, this whole documentary, there 540 00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:55.440 was no looking through chain link fences with telephone old lenses and trying to find 541 00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:00.559 stand up on a mountaintop looking down at area fifty one. This was had 542 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:08.400 the support of the government. This had Bob Friend, who ran a blue 543 00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:15.599 book, as you know, for for a while interviewing the flight clue of 544 00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:22.280 the captain of Major Captain. I think Cohen and his helicopter flight crew that 545 00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:30.039 had a UFO encounter over Mansfield, Ohio all done with military personnel, and 546 00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:36.920 I think it's I think it's a remarkable documentary that just had fallen through the 547 00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:42.239 cracks, and that I wanted it revived or I wanted people to know about 548 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:45.960 it. Mm hmm. It's a I agree with you. That story is 549 00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:52.559 so incredibly fascinating and mysterious, and it's one of that I think is kind 550 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:59.760 of I consider one of the lower hanging through in that you do have Emmenager 551 00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:06.320 who was apparently approached and we're you know, they cooperated with him. You 552 00:52:06.320 --> 00:52:10.880 know, I've never heard of the military ever saying anybody representing the military saying 553 00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.280 Emmenegger's lying about this story. And he's told it many, many, many 554 00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:22.079 times. So it is fascinating, and I could see how that connection with 555 00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:30.559 Nixon would then drive your fascination around. I'll tell you a very quick story. 556 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:32.000 I don't know how much time we have left, but very quick. 557 00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:40.079 I was talking to Stan Freedman about it, and Stan said, yeah, 558 00:52:40.280 --> 00:52:46.320 he had. He said, I met him Naga in Sandler in Los Angeles, 559 00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:51.239 because and I had lunch with him. He said, I was offered 560 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:53.599 my service. I wanted to be in the documentary, but they turned me 561 00:52:53.679 --> 00:53:00.360 down. And he laughed and he said they turned me down because they wanted 562 00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:06.320 all military people and that was fine. But he said, at the time, 563 00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:12.440 I had a Russian document that had been given to me on UFOs, 564 00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:17.199 but it was all in Russian. And I told him about it, and 565 00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.519 either Emenag or Sandler I think it was sund said give it to me and 566 00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:28.880 I'll have it. I don't have it translated for you, and so stan 567 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:32.519 said he did give it to and thought that you know you hear from him 568 00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:36.800 in two or three months. He said about two or three days later he 569 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:39.719 had the translation back. They'd sent it back to him. At that point, 570 00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:44.639 he said, I knew they had high level government contracts. It wasn't 571 00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:50.960 any bologna about it, he said, because obviously the government had equipment that 572 00:53:51.000 --> 00:53:57.559 could translate Russian into English that was still highly classified. That they used to 573 00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:02.119 do this and did it very quickly computer equipment. So he said it was 574 00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:07.800 already dug in my mind that that that Bob and Sandlah had had high level 575 00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:15.639 and still do. I don't know what Stanlon is Sandler, but I talked 576 00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:19.719 with Bob not long ago and he's he's doing well in his retirement home and 577 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:24.360 say a Bill Arkansas. So one of the things I find interesting and I 578 00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:29.599 think good you know, uh, that people I think will be interested in 579 00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:37.239 is that you do cover kind of the outstanding mythology in the UFO arena around 580 00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:42.519 what presidents may or may not know, and you give your own estimation as 581 00:54:42.559 --> 00:54:45.960 to whether you think something is credible or not. And I think you have 582 00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:52.119 some great analysis on these various reports or anecdotal information, uh, and and 583 00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:57.719 research as to why you think it may or may not be true. But 584 00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:04.519 what I think I love that you here too is how, in especially the 585 00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:14.639 fifties and the sixties, there was this ongoing battle that is well documented within 586 00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:22.320 the military as to what the nature of UFOs were and how it was a 587 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:28.559 topic that was taken very seriously and debated as to whether they were extraterrestrial or 588 00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:34.679 not right such as and I call that mean to me, that's the golden 589 00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:44.280 years from the late forties up until really up until the Kindon report, what 590 00:55:44.360 --> 00:55:51.039 I call the very flawed Condon Report of nineteen sixty nine, those years were 591 00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:59.840 really the golden years for us that will to study euthiology, because there are 592 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:06.519 some paper trails there. After going into the seventies, things changed and of 593 00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:13.039 course, you know, blue Book was closed, and the Air Force was 594 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:21.039 extremely happy that the University of Colorado took the five hundred thousand dollars carrot and 595 00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:25.039 got Condon, who thought the whole thing was, as he said, damn 596 00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:34.400 foolishness. And his report, of course, as you know, is is 597 00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:40.400 really nothing like what the Colorado Project, the rest of the Colorado Project report 598 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:47.079 actually was. He even fired a few people. But anyway, that's that's 599 00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:52.719 another subject some times. But in the fifties, I mean, what were 600 00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:57.719 for example, you know, you referred to the estimate of the situation, 601 00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:06.639 which was the Project SIGN essentially estimate of the UFO situation after they had done 602 00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:14.239 years of UFO research where they entertained that the extraterrestrial hypothesis, right, yeah, 603 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:21.039 they they wrestle with it. The members of the Project Sign wrestle with 604 00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:27.000 writing the estimate. And I think that what pushed him over the edge, 605 00:57:27.039 --> 00:57:35.719 so to speak, is the Charles Witted Eastern Airlines encounter with the UFO over 606 00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:45.599 Alabama. I believe it was, and that incident sort of pushed the SIGN 607 00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:52.039 group on to write the estimate of the situation that ended up by saying in 608 00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:53.559 essence, well, I mean, I don't know what it ended up saying, 609 00:57:53.559 --> 00:58:00.480 because nobody Jay Allen Heinix said he had seen it, but it apparently 610 00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:07.239 was destroyed, but acknowledged by Air Force personnel that it existed and that the 611 00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:13.159 estimate in essence said that when you look at everything and you strip everything away, 612 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:19.400 the only answer that we can come up with is that we're dealing with 613 00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:27.199 extraterrestrial craft. Well, that report was handled like a hot potato from one 614 00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:31.679 command to another as it went up the chain of command to General Hoard Vandenberg, 615 00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:38.199 and when it hit Vandenberg's desk, he apparently went ballistic and said, 616 00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:46.559 this doesn't this is not going to stand. We're not going over this report. 617 00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:52.920 Redo it, take this extraterrestrial hypothesis out of it, or what have 618 00:58:53.079 --> 00:59:01.639 you. But anyway, it was the death bell for Project Sign. They 619 00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:07.760 closed Project Signed down and sent everybody to work on Project Signed, probably to 620 00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:16.239 Antarctica somewhere. And and of course then Project Grudge came along, which was 621 00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:21.880 nothing but a propaganda They didn't do any research. It wasn't anything but a 622 00:59:21.880 --> 00:59:30.639 propaganda tool, as was Blue Book, which followed Grudge to some degree except 623 00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:37.119 for the years when Rupelt was running blue Book, and I think that that 624 00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:44.400 Rupelt did a did a very good job. But after that by a print 625 00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:46.519 came in at some point, and I think that he wanted to do a 626 00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:51.239 good job, and I think he was really he was handcuffed by the Air 627 00:59:51.280 --> 01:00:04.519 Force. So it's a it's a long and involved that. You know. 628 01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:12.239 I hate to talk about the Air Force because I really am very proud of 629 01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:16.360 our Air Force and I think I have great friends in the Air Force, 630 01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:21.760 and I think it's a wonderful branch of the service. That's all the military 631 01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:29.199 is. But when it comes to the issue of UFOs, they stumbled around 632 01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:37.960 and bumbled around and lied, and I think did great disrespect and have done 633 01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:45.480 great disrespect to themselves. And I you know, and I wonder Leandro if 634 01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:55.519 the reason that disclosure is so difficult now is because so many things were done 635 01:00:55.719 --> 01:01:06.039 back then that would refined in such a negative way on the government that that 636 01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:14.559 people are. It's one reason that whoever the wolders of the secrets are are 637 01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:19.679 afraid to get into. And you know, there's no question in my mind 638 01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:30.199 there were laws broken. It could be serious laws broken. And well Rupelt, 639 01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:34.000 you know, in his book. Uh. His book is certainly a 640 01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:39.519 less conspiratorial angle, but he's very critical himself, saying exactly what you said, 641 01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:45.320 they stumbled and bumbled. He acknowledges that the estimation of the situation existed, 642 01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:52.119 and it did have the extraterrestrial hypothesis, which did upset Vandenberg. But 643 01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.920 when you look at it, and I read that part, you know where 644 01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:57.920 you wrote in your book how you're sympathetic to the Air Force at least you 645 01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:02.599 appreciate the arm served versus all of them and what they've done, and you 646 01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.559 have great respect. But I wonder, you know, having written this book 647 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:14.039 and seen all the decisions that were made, would you have done it differently? 648 01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.440 What should they have done? Because I always kind of struggle with that 649 01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:22.280 in that I can see how they've got a real hot potato in their hands 650 01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:30.639 and it would be a difficult thing to deal with. Let's be addressed like 651 01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:43.960 this. I think that what Truman did in concealing UFOs and even asenhow was 652 01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:50.239 perfectly reasonable, and in my if I had been in their position, it's 653 01:02:50.320 --> 01:02:54.519 what I would have done. Also, because we were dealing with a very 654 01:02:54.719 --> 01:03:01.519 fragile population of the world, and to know that there were craft that could 655 01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:07.119 fly, especially in our country, you know, after we were victorious, 656 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:15.719 and to know that after this terrible war that killed what fifty million people and 657 01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:28.039 destroyed fifteen sixteen hundred cities, that after this terrible war and the psyche of 658 01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:35.440 the population was so fragile to come out and say that their mystery aircraft, 659 01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:42.960 mystery vehicles that can enter air airspace at will and fly anywhere they want to 660 01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:47.360 and do anything. As time went on and we got into the nuclear age 661 01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:55.679 and people became more sophisticated that I think the lit of secrecy should have been 662 01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:04.559 lifted. The problem probably lies in the area that and this is where I 663 01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:15.400 get very cynical. The military industrial complex ow great wealth in the technology, 664 01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:23.880 the technology that was being turned over to them, and there were probably and 665 01:04:23.920 --> 01:04:28.719 there was great power amassed. You know, whether there's where there's money, 666 01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:35.320 there's power and and and this is what happened in the eyesenhow administration when the 667 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:44.239 military industrial complex got so involved in and I think that things were done then 668 01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:54.280 started to or were done then that really were broke the law seriously in a 669 01:04:54.360 --> 01:05:01.199 number of ways. So I think that you kind of had catch twenty two 670 01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:12.440 things had been done that shouldn't have been done, that prevented the release of 671 01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:23.760 information after the end of the war, and we started our great industrial comeback 672 01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:29.639 in the fifties and sixties. So if you get the picture of what I'm 673 01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:34.760 saying, I think that we did the right thing to conceal it at first, 674 01:05:35.559 --> 01:05:41.920 But then when we should have started divulging these secrets, it would have 675 01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:49.559 put a bad light on so many people for things that had been done that 676 01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:58.320 it couldn't be revealed. So I hope I'm getting a polled across here. 677 01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:00.559 Yeah, I think so. I mean, in the book, you do 678 01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:06.719 include the m J twelve papers, and and you're a subscriber to the idea 679 01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:12.320 that they probably you feel. I think some of them are many of them 680 01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:16.800 are kind of revealing the secret, nefarious history. Yeah, so a few, 681 01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:21.360 A very few, A very few. I'm not real comfortable with the 682 01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:28.719 Tim Cooper documents, kind of along the lines of Stanton Friedman, who feels 683 01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:34.679 similarly stand and I pretty much share. And I've read Stance research and I 684 01:06:34.679 --> 01:06:39.599 think it's I think it's good, solid research, And you know, I 685 01:06:40.599 --> 01:06:45.679 pretty much go along with stand not because he's a friend, which he is, 686 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:49.119 but because I think that I think it's it's pretty solid. I know 687 01:06:49.159 --> 01:06:55.280 that that most people don't, mostly in uphology don't. But you know that's 688 01:06:55.280 --> 01:07:00.760 okay. We all have our differences. Yeah. Well, and but I 689 01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:04.840 mean in that and and I think so the audience knows people listening that when 690 01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:10.639 they get your book, which I think many will appreciate because it's better to 691 01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:15.199 have more information than less. I think that you do share, you know, 692 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:24.079 those alleged leaked secret histories that are out there regarding presidents, including ideas 693 01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:30.199 about possible Kennedy's death being attached to the UFO topic and some other things, 694 01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:35.119 although you do, you know, balance those ideas, but that it is 695 01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:39.840 complete. I want people to make their own decision, right right. I'm 696 01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:44.719 not all that comfortable with with you know, Bob Wood and the doctor Bob 697 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:49.800 Wood, who who's Who's a great fellaw they they are, they really are 698 01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:56.199 very soul on the burn memo, I'm not, but I put it in 699 01:07:56.239 --> 01:07:59.280 the book because it's there. Yeah, you know, I've got to cover 700 01:07:59.360 --> 01:08:03.840 it. It's it's whether it's true, whether it's a factual document or not, 701 01:08:04.599 --> 01:08:09.239 the fact remains that it is there, it exists. So I had 702 01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:13.000 to put it in the book, and all I'm saying is let the reader 703 01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:17.960 hear the facts, let the reader make a decision. One I agree, 704 01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:23.880 I mean I certainly don't. Well, and that's what this is interesting about 705 01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:27.720 this field. We don't all agree with each other over different things. However, 706 01:08:27.760 --> 01:08:30.880 what's important is that we work together and get along. I mean, 707 01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:35.199 I think people of the show know that, and that you know, Stanton 708 01:08:35.239 --> 01:08:39.960 and I have had had our debates or but I love Stanton, I love 709 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:44.640 the Woods. These are good friends I've known for years. And that's why 710 01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:48.199 I want people to know that you're inclusive in this book of all of these 711 01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:53.119 different ideas, so that it's a good book for people to be able to 712 01:08:53.720 --> 01:09:01.479 get a full understanding of what's out there in ufology. Regarding presidents, well, 713 01:09:01.760 --> 01:09:08.800 I appreciate that. That's that's their very nice words, and I hope 714 01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:13.119 I did a decent job with the book, and it's it's the book is 715 01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:18.560 truly how I feel and how I view the subject. And you know, 716 01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:25.279 I focus on one thing. I have focused on one thing, and that's 717 01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:30.159 flying sauces and UFOs. I don't focus on who's inside of or what's inside 718 01:09:30.159 --> 01:09:38.840 of them. I think, for instance, abductions are important part of the 719 01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:45.560 UF Post story, but I don't I'm no expert at all. That's why 720 01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:48.520 I got Kathy Martin too, you know, I thought it should be included 721 01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:55.039 in the book, and I got Kathy too to to put her thoughts into 722 01:09:55.079 --> 01:09:59.359 the chapter on abductions. So, you know, I hope I've I hope 723 01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:05.199 I've come with things properly. And I'm sure they'll you know, there'll be 724 01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:13.119 folks that find things negative about it. Every everybody's work. That happens to 725 01:10:13.159 --> 01:10:16.800 everybody's work. But you know, I've done the best I could on this, 726 01:10:16.960 --> 01:10:20.640 and I hope people like it. Yeah, I think what you've done 727 01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:24.840 is, you know, the book isn't out there, Grant hasn't done it. 728 01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:28.640 You took a stab at it, and you did a lot of your 729 01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:33.279 own research. And for me, as someone who you know, loves this 730 01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:38.359 topic and looks into all of that, I learned things from your book. 731 01:10:39.439 --> 01:10:45.640 I definitely appreciated it, and and I think you did a great job at, 732 01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:49.479 you know, giving people an overall perspective there. So I encourage people 733 01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:54.039 to definitely get it and take a look. And I think everybody's going to 734 01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:59.880 learn something from it, and I definitely appreciate the original investigative work you've done 735 01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:03.520 it because a lot of times people will just pick up other people's stuff for 736 01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:09.000 search for everything online, but you didn't do that, and I think it's 737 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:14.920 important that people know you didn't just you know, comb Grant Cameron's website and 738 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:16.119 pull stuff out of that. For your book, you did a lot of 739 01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:24.319 original work in here and first hand research that I think people will really appreciate. 740 01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:30.760 Well, well, I appreciate that, I really do, Elliot Andro, 741 01:11:31.119 --> 01:11:38.199 and I hope people enjoy the book. Yep. Well, I guess 742 01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:41.359 I'll probably see you in Roswell, right. Are you going to do Roswell 743 01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:44.960 again? You've been there the last few years. I'll be there. Just 744 01:11:44.960 --> 01:11:50.720 just sent all my information off to Karen at the at the museum, and 745 01:11:51.159 --> 01:11:55.880 so I'll be there and look forward to seeing you. Yeah, so we'll 746 01:11:55.880 --> 01:12:00.000 see you there. That's the July fourth weekend in a well in New Mexico 747 01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:05.359 where they have their festival every year. And what else are you doing going 748 01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:10.680 forward? Are you going to work on another book? I know this one 749 01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:15.640 just came out March seventeenth, so you're probably really excited and in the middle 750 01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:23.479 of promoting this one, Yeah, there's a lot going on, and I'm 751 01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:28.439 getting a lot of emails. I'm getting some very interesting emails, as I 752 01:12:28.520 --> 01:12:35.520 think I said earlier, from people that have had their own experience. One 753 01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:46.039 was pre med student in Oklahoma that wrote me of a sighting that she had 754 01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:55.000 in nineteen sixty five that she's never told anyone about, and it's a fascinating 755 01:12:56.000 --> 01:13:00.760 Her story is fascinating, and she never told anyone about it for the reason 756 01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:05.840 that we all know that she was afraid of being ridiculed. But in the 757 01:13:05.880 --> 01:13:13.479 book, if you remember, I related the story by a young woman that 758 01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:17.439 I called Sandy which is not her real name, of a sighting that she 759 01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:28.079 had in California one night, and and this this lady read that and she 760 01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:32.960 said he was so similar to the sighting that I had. After reading it 761 01:13:32.960 --> 01:13:38.159 in the book, I just had to had to contact you and and and 762 01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:41.920 relieve my sighting. She said, it makes me feel better to get it 763 01:13:41.960 --> 01:13:45.000 off my chest because I just never talked to anybody about it. And she 764 01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:49.560 did have a twin sister that was with her in the car at the time, 765 01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:58.319 and so it also but you know, getting that that sort of information 766 01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:06.199 from Pete and getting nice notes and emails that sing from people to sing that 767 01:14:06.359 --> 01:14:12.760 they are enjoying the book and and you know what have you. It's it's 768 01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:19.439 very gratifying and uh has has been a fun project. Yeah. I will 769 01:14:19.560 --> 01:14:26.640 uh, I will probably start working on another book as soon as things level 770 01:14:26.680 --> 01:14:32.000 out and we see where we are with this book. Uh. It's it's 771 01:14:32.079 --> 01:14:36.359 fun to know and it's exciting to know that it's going as of now, 772 01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:44.920 and and perhaps it's more in the future that it will at least be reprinted 773 01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:49.920 in two different foreign languages. I haven't I haven't heard from the u K. 774 01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:59.640 I I saw a thought that there would be some interest in the UK. 775 01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:06.079 Of course, Nick Ope contributed to the book, but you know, 776 01:15:06.319 --> 01:15:13.279 there may be more coming coming down the line. But it's uh, it's 777 01:15:13.760 --> 01:15:17.439 it's been fun and it is it is fun now and it's it's so nice 778 01:15:17.479 --> 01:15:28.119 to hear from people that that are interested in the subject and uh and and 779 01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:31.920 have enjoyed the book. Mm hmm. So uh, I know it's on 780 01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:35.079 Amazon. Is that the best place for people to go in and get it? 781 01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:40.399 Well, it's it's best. I can tell. It's in be course, 782 01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:45.399 I've had a number of Kathy Martin uh emailed me yesterday and said that 783 01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:49.319 she had just seen it in Barnes and Noble, the Barnes and Noble store 784 01:15:49.600 --> 01:15:55.920 in where she lives in Florida, and uh, several other people. I'm 785 01:15:56.000 --> 01:16:04.960 speaking at a couple of Move On local meetings in Maryland and Virginia, one 786 01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:14.039 next month and one large meeting in the fall. And someone wrote that they 787 01:16:14.279 --> 01:16:17.800 had seen the book in the Barnes and Noble store in DC. So it's 788 01:16:17.840 --> 01:16:25.680 in all the Barnes and Noble stores. Obviously, it's on Amazon. Looks 789 01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:30.159 like it's pretty well. It's out there, it's pretty well available, all 790 01:16:30.279 --> 01:16:32.960 right. Great, Well, thank you so much for being on the show. 791 01:16:33.199 --> 01:16:38.760 I hope everything goes well with the book, and I guess we'll be 792 01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:45.199 talking to you soon. I appreciate it, and Aleandro, thank you so 793 01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:48.119 much to Larry for coming on the show. Like I said, his book 794 01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:53.520 is really interesting, the President's and at UFOs. It's got a lot of 795 01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:56.680 information in there. It is. Like I said earlier, I think one 796 01:16:56.720 --> 01:17:00.159 of those books you got to have because you can run for referenced some material 797 01:17:00.239 --> 01:17:03.880 he's done, some original you know, investigation. He's gone to a lot 798 01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:12.319 of libraries to get some information, so it's good to reference when you're putting 799 01:17:12.319 --> 01:17:17.039 together and I think he also does some really good analysis of some of the 800 01:17:17.079 --> 01:17:21.800 more dubious cases as well. So it's a great book. I definitely recommend 801 01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:27.039 it. And it's got a really pretty cool cover of like some presidents standing 802 01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:30.520 there looking at a UFO or something like that. It reminds me of one 803 01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:33.039 of our covers where we all kind of a lot of the guys in the 804 01:17:33.079 --> 01:17:38.960 office were took pictures and we put him in the magazine as if they were 805 01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:43.119 looking at a UFO in the renderschrom forest. So it's similar to that. 806 01:17:43.159 --> 01:17:47.000 They copied our magazine covers those goofballs. But anyway, check it out. 807 01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:51.439 Like you said, you can go to Amazon to get that printed by Saint 808 01:17:51.560 --> 01:17:56.760 Martin's Press. So very exciting. Thank you all so much for joining us 809 01:17:56.840 --> 01:17:59.960 this week. Don't forget to check out our YouTube site. We've got new 810 01:18:00.159 --> 01:18:05.479 spacing out episodes. Don't forget to check out Openminds dot tv for more information 811 01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:11.079 about all of those stories that Jason and I talked about, as well as 812 01:18:11.079 --> 01:18:15.439 getting to the YouTube and our video portal we're gonna be posting some more videos 813 01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:18.800 up on the portal. In fact, some of you who can't get the 814 01:18:18.880 --> 01:18:25.600 DVD or maybe you're in another country have been asking about Bob Lazaar and getting 815 01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:29.000 access to watch that video. We're going to be putting that up in our 816 01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:31.319 video portal, so just for a few bucks, you'll be able to watch 817 01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:35.439 that and a ton of other videos. So our video portal is a great 818 01:18:35.479 --> 01:18:40.640 deal. You can watch lots of videos for a cheap monthly price, and 819 01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:44.960 then we put more and more videos. It's like a UFO Netflix and it's 820 01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:47.039 definitely worth it, so go check that out. You can see that at 821 01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:53.239 Openminds dot tv as well. And I also want to thank Travis Walton. 822 01:18:53.319 --> 01:19:00.760 He's announced his fortieth anniversary event. It's at skyfiresummit dot com and in fact, 823 01:19:00.920 --> 01:19:03.640 we were there, some of us with open Minds last year where they 824 01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:08.079 kind of did a smaller trial run event and we did a lot of cool 825 01:19:08.159 --> 01:19:12.479 videotaping. So if you go to skyfiresummit dot com you'll be able to watch 826 01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:17.239 our open Minds video that's on our YouTube channel about our interview with Travis and 827 01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:20.640 about that event. And this is going to be bigger and better as similar, 828 01:19:21.079 --> 01:19:25.079 So go to skyfiresummit dot com to check this out. It's going to 829 01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:28.840 be in November, so he's going to be taking people to the place that 830 01:19:28.920 --> 01:19:32.279 his UFO event happened at the same time it happened, on the same day 831 01:19:32.319 --> 01:19:35.560 it happened. So we'll be able to be out there in the forest and 832 01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:40.720 open Minds will be out there, we'll do some filming and it's going to 833 01:19:40.800 --> 01:19:43.319 be a lot of fun. And I'm gonna mc because the next couple of 834 01:19:43.399 --> 01:19:47.800 days he's going to have some speakers talking about UFOs and stuff, people like 835 01:19:47.880 --> 01:19:53.399 David Hatcher, childress Tracy Tormet, who wrote and produced the movie Fire in 836 01:19:53.479 --> 01:19:57.119 the Sky. Some people are really upset that they changed what happened on the 837 01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.199 craft and the movie Fire in the Sky. Tracy, to me will tell 838 01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:06.119 you how that came about and why that happened and for better or worse, 839 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:11.239 you know what was going on there. Really interesting stuff he has to share. 840 01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:14.199 And James Fox will be there because he's doing a new movie, The 841 01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:16.239 seven oh one with James Fox. So a lot of other people check out 842 01:20:16.239 --> 01:20:23.840 skyfiresummit dot com to check that out. Otherwise, thank you to Caleb Hanks 843 01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:27.640 for the opening and close music. On the radio page, you can get 844 01:20:27.680 --> 01:20:32.920 to the link to the The Something Chronicles. I forget right now what it's 845 01:20:32.960 --> 01:20:36.439 called, but anyways, you'll see a link to Caleb Hanks and his music 846 01:20:36.479 --> 01:20:41.119 that he puts online for free. I love his music. It's awesome, 847 01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:47.000 so go check it out and download it. And then I also want to 848 01:20:47.239 --> 01:20:51.880 thank you all as usual for listening. We should be back next week. 849 01:20:53.359 --> 01:20:58.920 By anything crazy happening, Uh, you never know in this field, we 850 01:20:59.039 --> 01:21:02.800 might have to go run and then recover down extra treasural spacecraft. That'd be 851 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:06.680 really cool. We haven't gotten a chance to do that, but we probably 852 01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:11.760 would skip a show if we did get that opportunity, So you never know 853 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:15.439 what may happen. But we'll talk to you next week. You guys have 854 01:21:15.720 --> 01:22:14.199 a wonderful week. Audios muchachos your motionless sound. The glass t Suffering