WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.760 --> 00:00:07.400 Welcome to Open Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former official spokesperson for 2 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:12.720 the Mutual UFO Network. Alejandro who has been a UFO paranormal researcher and journalists 3 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:17.320 for nearly a decade and has long hours in the field investigating the paranormal up 4 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:22.199 close and personal, and now Open Minds Radio presents evidence in the latest news 5 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:29.800 regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello and welcome 6 00:00:30.079 --> 00:00:36.200 to Open Minds Radio, where we're bringing you the best in UFO news and 7 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:42.679 information. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have an exciting show today. James 8 00:00:42.799 --> 00:00:46.000 Peniston is on and this is really cool. He was on Coast to Coast 9 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:50.000 a couple of days ago speaking with James Fox, and he was actually in 10 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:54.600 our office. James Fox. He's a big fan of our magazine. If 11 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:57.679 you haven't checked out the magazine, you're going to be able to do so 12 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:03.640 on June first, and we're doing some special promo stuff and the Barnes and 13 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:07.239 Nobles and Borders, so it'll be easy to spot. You'll have to go 14 00:01:07.319 --> 00:01:11.359 check that out and go in there and just hang around where the promo magazine 15 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.920 stuff is and just kind of tell people as they walk by, look at 16 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.359 this, this is so cool and that would be a lot of help for 17 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:22.120 us. So don't scare them away, but be really excited about it. 18 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:26.400 So we're really excited about the big promotion that's going to be going on with 19 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:30.200 the magazine. But it's great. You can also of course go to Openminds 20 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:36.400 dot tv to check that out and order it as well. But James Peniston 21 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:42.599 was actually one of the officers or the US Air Force. He's a staff 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:52.400 sergeant working security at the Bentwaters Air Force Base and it's actually a Royal Air 23 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:57.239 Force base. It's a UK base that was lent out to the Americans to 24 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:05.599 use. When in about nineteen he was out well, they were just at 25 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:10.080 the gate doing their regular security stuff and they saw some lights in the forest. 26 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.080 He actually went out there and was able to investigate and you may have 27 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.159 seen him on Larry King where he talked about actually seeing this vehicle and touching 28 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:22.680 it. Now, there were two incidents. This was the first night. 29 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.960 The second night is when Colonel Halt, Charles Halt, was and he was 30 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:30.680 unaware of this original event because they didn't let them talk about it in this 31 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:36.039 second event the next night. That's the event most people are aware of that 32 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:40.800 was on Unsolved Mysteries, I think in Sightings and everything, where these guys 33 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:45.199 went out in the forest and they recorded the audio when they were chasing around 34 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.479 a light in the forest, and you know, we're able to see this 35 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.560 thing fly off and everything, but in that incident, they weren't able to 36 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:59.199 get close to the craft like mister Peniston was. So I'm really excited to 37 00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.919 talk to him because it's an absolutely amazing event. And this event made it 38 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.800 into the public eye when official documents were released by the Ministry of Defense, 39 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:14.000 so that's how we know this happened. We haven't heard anything official from the 40 00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:19.759 United States Air Force on this case, so it's it's an incredible event, 41 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:24.439 and some people say it's the most documented, the best UFO case in history. 42 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:29.879 So and if you heard our show with Nick Pope not too long ago, 43 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:31.960 he referred to it a lot. So this is an exciting case. 44 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:36.719 We'll have James on in a little bit, but I want to talk about 45 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:40.199 a couple other things. On April thirtieth and Scottsdale, we're going to be 46 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:45.960 at Vision Quest bookstore again that some of the editors and stuff for the magazine, 47 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:53.439 and we'll be talking about just answering questions and stuff like that. April 48 00:03:53.479 --> 00:04:00.000 thirtieth at seventh May twenty eight. April thirtieth was in the past, actually, 49 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:03.639 someone reminded me, so you don't have to get your time machine. 50 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:09.520 May twenty eighth. You can come out Roswell. However, we will be 51 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:14.159 in Roswell as well, and that's going to be from July first to the 52 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.680 fourth, and that is their big festival out there in Roswell, So you 53 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:23.160 still have time to book your hotel and come and drive or fly out there 54 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:28.480 to Roswell, New Mexico. Of course, the site of the alleged UFO 55 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:34.000 crash in nineteen forty seven, a case that is on par with the Rendalstim 56 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:39.399 case of course, that you'd love to use the phrase the such and such 57 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:45.439 Roswell and rendal Stim is referred to as the UK is Roswell. But before 58 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.879 we get into our interview, of course, we always cover UFOs in the 59 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:54.439 news, and these are the conventional headlines the news that is going on out 60 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:59.199 in the world. And we have our news correspondent, Jason McClelland to share 61 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:01.879 the news with us Hello Jason, Greeting, Zalejandro, Hello Phoenix, and 62 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:05.279 Hello World. This is your Open Minds News brief for Monday, May seventeen, 63 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.600 twenty ten. In the News this week, there's more news stemming from 64 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:15.040 comments made by fame physicists Stephen Hawking last month in his new television series Into 65 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:20.920 the Universe with Stephen Hooking. When positing the existence of intelligent extraterrestrials, he 66 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:25.759 advised humans to avoid contact with aliens because he feels that aliens are likely to 67 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:30.680 invade our planet and drain all of our resources, and he cited human behavior 68 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.399 as his basis for this belief. In response to Hawking's comments, the Journal 69 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:39.480 of Cosmology has compiled responses from several scientists. Some criticize Hawking for using human 70 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:43.240 behavior as a measuring stick to guess what aliens might do, what others thoughts 71 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.759 was quite reasonable. While these scientists weren't all on the same side of this 72 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.959 debate, they all seem to agree that alien life forming alien life exists. 73 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:55.480 Yeah, I mean, that's such a popular belief these days amongst science. 74 00:05:55.759 --> 00:06:00.879 It's very very exciting, and like you said, some people agree with Hawking, 75 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:04.360 so it's sad that others are so critical, not to say, you 76 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:09.240 know, necessarily I'm either way, but people have their opinions. We don't 77 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:12.360 know what's going on yet. Well, and again this is the one comment 78 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.120 that everybody's focusing on. Yeah, Hawking said a lot of things, but 79 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.439 this is what it is latching onto. Good point. And this adds to 80 00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:26.240 the evidence behind the article you wrote in January about how scientists are in fact 81 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:29.800 interested in this topic exactly, and that you know, Nick Pope had talked 82 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:35.240 about when they had their astrobiological conference recently that behind closed doors, a lot 83 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:40.680 of the scientists were talking about this kind of thing, about the speculating about 84 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:46.000 the reality and something being. There's something being behind this UFO thing. In 85 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.879 related news, another scientist who agrees that alien likes exists, Arizona State University 86 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:54.480 professor Paul Davies, had an op ed piece published in The New York Times 87 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:59.160 last week in which Davies discussed his thoughts on the hidden alien biosphere consisting of 88 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.319 microbial life, or life two point zero as he calls it here on Earth. 89 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:09.920 In NASA news, a NASA spacecraft may have been hijacked by aliens. 90 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.680 That's according to a German UFO expert who claims the Voyager two, a NASA 91 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:17.000 space probe launched thirty three years ago, has started transmitting strange signals from its 92 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:21.079 location near the edge of the Solar System. NASA has only responded by saying 93 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:26.519 it's engineers are working to solve a data transmission fault. That's kind of weird. 94 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.560 What's funny that this story has gotten so much news, because of course 95 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.879 there are people saying all kinds of different wild conspiracy theories, but this one. 96 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:36.600 You know, at first one of the stories I saw was a German 97 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:41.519 scientist, but he's not. He is a UFO researcher, but yeah, 98 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.920 he believes it's been kidnapped and to communicate with humans. It's interesting to note 99 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:47.920 that when NASA launched the probe thirty three years ago, they installed a twelve 100 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:53.160 inch disc containing music and greetings in fifty five languages in case intelligent life ever 101 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.279 came in contact with it, which is kind of cool, thinking that they 102 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:01.600 assumed or thought that there might be alien life planned ahead. Yeah, and 103 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:05.759 I've always thought with this twelve inch disc aboard this thing was launched thirty three 104 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.439 years ago, so I think of a twelve inch record. Yeah, gold 105 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.120 record, a gold record in space and aliens coming on it and finding this 106 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.000 record not knowing what to do with it, but having all sorts of music 107 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.319 like Fleetwood Mac and the Eagles, and they're trying to dam it into their 108 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.720 hologram player and it's not and it just doesn't work. Yeah, or it's 109 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:30.439 all melted from space. But in fact it's actually a gold plated copper disc. 110 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.240 And the song selection they used is large largely classical music, which I 111 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.679 thought was interesting. Yeah, so it's mellow stuff. So they don't hear 112 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.000 something except for Johnny b Good. Oh really, yes, Chuck Berry, 113 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:45.840 hopefully they don't hear classical. Get to Johnny be Good and then decide, 114 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.440 oh, we we're gonna just kind of avoid these guys and that now we're 115 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.639 going to attack because they have this wild crazy but they might like rock and 116 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:54.120 roll, so good thing they included it. Yeah, we'll see. In 117 00:08:54.200 --> 00:09:00.559 other news, President Eisenhower was allegedly briefed on the presence of extraterrestrials. Statement 118 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:03.039 made by a former representative from the state of New Hampshire. Henry W. 119 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:09.799 McElroy claims to have seen an official brief to President Eisenhower concerning extraterrestrial life, 120 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:15.759 and the brief allegedly revealed that extraterrestrials were president in the United States, they 121 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:20.200 were benevolent, and could a meeting could be arranged for Eisenhower. Other claims 122 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.000 have been made that Eisenhower secretly traveled to Air Force facilities in nineteen fifty four 123 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.320 and nineteen fifty five to meet with representatives from more than one extraterrestrial civilization. 124 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.399 Yeah, there's a lot of people trying to verify some of what he said, 125 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.919 or at least to confirm his credentials, and so far, I mean 126 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:43.399 it seems that he really was is a politician or recently retired, So very 127 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.759 interesting statements, of course, and what a lot of people believe to be 128 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:50.240 true. So I'm really interested, as in everyone else, I think, 129 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.559 in this build as to the follow up and what more this guy has to 130 00:09:54.600 --> 00:10:00.720 say. Yeah, that was interesting. He made his video the statement, 131 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:05.960 and that sort of been very, very very popular this week and last week, 132 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.480 I guess put it on YouTube and everything, right, and in lighter 133 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.200 news, the runaway UFO like balloon that the world thought was carrying a six 134 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.279 year old boy who will now forever be known as the balloon Boy is back 135 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.240 in possession of the parents who pleaded guilty to the hoax that occurred back in 136 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.559 October. Richard Heen and his wife staged the hoax in an effort to get 137 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.639 attention for a reality TV show, but in reality, what they got were 138 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.120 jail sentences in a thirty six thousand dollars fine that will go to the agencies 139 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.799 that responded to the hoax. Oddly, when Richard Heen went to pick up 140 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:39.759 his balloon, he asked officers to let him measure it because he wanted to 141 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.159 make sure it was in fact his balloon, like they would take it and 142 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.360 replace it or apparently a lot of people have balloons sitting in the police walk 143 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.600 up. Make sure he got the right one, get the right balloon. 144 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:56.879 Weird. Yeah, obviously he's a strange guy and not very cool the stent 145 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.600 he pulled, So no, he did this time he paid for his crime. 146 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.519 That's right. And in non UFO related news, Alejandro and I will 147 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:15.360 both be at the Clubhouse in Tempe, Arizona on Thursday night for a concert 148 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:20.559 the Cherry Popping Daddies. So if you love neo swing music, rock music, 149 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:24.600 good music. Come down to the clubhouse in Tempee and Alejandro and I 150 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:26.480 will be there. Yeah, we'll be Do you swing dance? I do 151 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.679 swing dance, really, I do. I can't wait to see well, 152 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:33.559 i'd be able to see you swing dance. I'm a little rusty, well 153 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:37.360 off the dust off my shoes. Make sure you have a couple of drinks 154 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.120 and do some swing dancing. I can do that if requested. That should 155 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.840 be exciting because, of course, one of my favorite movie scenes is just 156 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:48.919 because it's Cameron Diaz is the mask with the cherry pop and daddies and Chief 157 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:52.879 dances. That's actually not the cherry popping daddy's I thought it was. That's 158 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:58.720 Royal Crown review. Oh, Royal Crown Review. How funny. Well, 159 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.240 still she looked great. That's it for the news. Remember to check these 160 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.000 stories and more at openminds dot tv, your source for UFO related news. 161 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.759 I'm your Open Mind News correspondent Jason McLellan, and you've been briefed back to 162 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:13.759 you, ale Andro. Yeah. A couple other just from today news things 163 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:20.679 that I guess I could talk about is Gary McKinnon and there are some rumors 164 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:26.519 his wife and on another story, this unreleased source that he's actually going to 165 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:31.200 get a stay because the new Prime Minister had said he would be cool about 166 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.279 this whole thing. And not confirmed yet, but the rumors say that it's 167 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:41.840 looking likely. Yeah, that would be interesting after tons and tons and tons 168 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.720 of denials, that he actually gets to come home. How many years has 169 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.240 this been going on stay home? I should say it's been going on for 170 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:52.120 years. Yeah, a long long time. So you know, let the 171 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.320 guy say out there, he's going to do time either way, leave him, 172 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.519 leave him out there. Yep, we'll see. But according to the 173 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:03.480 rumors, we no soon. The bricks are terrified of us crazy Americans too. 174 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.840 All right, we will be back with James Peniston to talk about the 175 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:13.120 Renderlscham Air Force incident where a lot of US Air Force officers saw UFO. 176 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:31.480 So stay tuned to Open Minds Radio. You're listening to Open Minds Radio with 177 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:39.039 Alejandra rojas Im KFNX News Talk Radio eleven hundred. Welcome back. I want 178 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:45.200 to remind everybody that you can go to Openminds Dot GB and watch us live 179 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.840 while we do the show. As well. You can maybe even catch a 180 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.000 glimpse of Maureene back there. Who, thank Goodness Goodness was able to correct 181 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.639 me on the May twenty eighth date for the Scottsdale event where the Open Minds 182 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.440 editors will be at Vision Quest Bookstore at two two to two five North Scottsdale 183 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:05.399 Road to talk about the magazine, and the second magazine is going to be 184 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.039 out June first. I am so excited about it. It looks great. 185 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.559 It's mostly about the Vatican, but we also have a cattle mutilation story in 186 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:20.960 there from the mutilations that happened in Colorado last year. We have some early 187 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:28.200 Mayan type of omens where they were seeing weird things in the sky before the 188 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.720 Spaniards came to conquer them. So there's some cool stuff about that. So 189 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.320 a lot of really great stories and of course lots of history on the Vatican, 190 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:41.159 a little bit of conspiracy, but also some real history behind the Vatican 191 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:46.000 and others than just Coroado Balducci and some of these other recent scientists talking about 192 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.080 the existence of extraterrestrials. There have been monsignors and stuff like that believing in 193 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.519 this kind of thing and talking about it at the Vatican for quite some time. 194 00:14:54.799 --> 00:14:56.320 So you're going to have to check out the magazine to hear more about 195 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.600 that. However, we have a great guest on today. We've got James 196 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.480 Penniston. Are you there, James, Yes, I am wonderful. Thank 197 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:09.080 you so much for being on the show. I'm very excited about it. 198 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.960 Well, thank you for asking me. Yeah, you had looking forward to 199 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:20.240 it. Thank you. You had one of the most incredible experiences in the 200 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:28.240 whole Rendelsham Forest events. And then yes, go ahead, okay, you 201 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:33.879 know well the event happened in December of nineteen eighty while I was assigned to 202 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:39.360 ref would Reach and at Waters. It was dual base that was separated about 203 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:45.559 three miles each of the bases, and in December I was called out to 204 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:50.679 the East Gate and they weren't tell me on the radio what was going on 205 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.840 in the East Gate, but I went out there and the brief beings at 206 00:15:56.159 --> 00:16:00.200 the senior patrol and said that something had landed in the woods. You know, 207 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:02.879 I could see that there was something out there, you know, on 208 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.559 different colors were emily out of it. So I thought someone was on fire. 209 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.559 So I asked to go off base to investigate what I thought was a 210 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:18.600 possible aircraft on him and I assembled a team with myself, Aaron, John 211 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:26.200 Burrows and Aaron Cavanzac, and we went off base and drove as far as 212 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.840 we could, which is about one hundred and fifty yards, and it took 213 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.679 us spout, you know, to the five downs to get there, right 214 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:40.279 and as we started approaching the woods, we could starting to see a very 215 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:45.480 very bright light coming out of the woods. Burrows who saw the thing land? 216 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.879 Yeah? Initially it was John Burrows and Bud Stephens. Bud Stephens was 217 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:55.799 the senior law enforce patrolman that was out there that night, and then John 218 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.559 was riding with him. How did they describe the object that they had seen 219 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.559 landing? Well, when I when I asked Budd, well, you know, 220 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.440 I said, did you know did the crash out there? And he 221 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.799 goes, oh, no, he says that landed. I said, what 222 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:14.039 do you think it was the chopper? He goes, no, it's it's 223 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:18.559 something else. And I said, oh, I said, you sure landed? 224 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.240 Yeah? He says, you know, it definitely landed. And so 225 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:26.839 I discounted it. You know, it didn't make sense what he was saying. 226 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.599 How was their disposition? Were they kind of antsy? Were they amped 227 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:36.000 up and excited? Or they were highly concerned. Mm hmm, yeah they 228 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:44.799 were. I would put it more perplexed. Okay, yeah, very perplexed 229 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:48.519 over it. And uh and uh but matter of fact, by I wanted 230 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.519 Budd to come off with go with the off base, and he said, 231 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.359 there's just no way to him. I'm going out there. Wow. And 232 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:03.559 was he a security officer? He was law enforcement. These security police is 233 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.240 broken in the two fields. A security police which does flight line and they 234 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.160 you know, the priority resources like aircraft and things like that. That's what 235 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.880 I was. And he was law enforcement and heeded more domestic stuff on the 236 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.400 base like a radio policeman. Wow. And they were afraid to go out 237 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.000 so they're just out there watching this thing. I'm not going out there. 238 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.799 Let's call pension, let's send him out there. Well I was. I 239 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:33.799 was the senior UH security policeman on the base. I was in charge, 240 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:37.599 right and and and normally protocols would have called for me to go out there 241 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.079 anyway, as there was a down aircraft to set you know, after control 242 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:48.920 points, an emergency response vehicles, stuff like that out there. So anyway, 243 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:52.400 we got to uh getting towards the tree line and we had to set 244 00:18:52.480 --> 00:19:00.680 a radio relay because of the radios were having really severe interference, and so 245 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:06.079 I used their companzac for that. And then John and I went inside the 246 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:11.160 woodline in the woodline there and as we got inside there, uh the light 247 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.000 which was so bright you get you were squinting, you know, looking at 248 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.839 it. It started to dissipate as we got closer to it. And as 249 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.960 we got closer to it, you know, a shape was starting to form 250 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.079 from it, you starting to silhouette from because it was dimming and there was 251 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.759 just some red and blue lighting running through the fabric of the craft. And 252 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:36.920 it was a triangular craft sitting there on the forest floor. How strange the 253 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:42.720 light dissipated as you approached, Yes, it did, well, it did. 254 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:47.200 Otherwise though you want to be able to look at it and you say 255 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:53.079 how far was it laying on the ground. It appeared to be sitting on 256 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.480 like you know, uh, landing gear or something like that. I couldn't 257 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:03.599 really tell because of the way the shape of the craft was it. And 258 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:11.400 I never did see landing gear on it. Okay, so and did but 259 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.680 did that leave impressions in the ground, So they must they must have had 260 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.720 planting gear. How large was it? Well, when I measured it out, 261 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:26.400 it was about nine feet long, about and a half seven feet high, 262 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:33.079 very small. Later we found out because of the ground temperature that when 263 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:37.599 they measured it, they had a way of testing it with the ground temperature, 264 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.640 and they estimated it weighing about seven tons, which is just very light 265 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:48.279 for any type of aircraft, at least the you know, compared to like 266 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.160 a fighter aircraft, which weighs like twenty six twenty seven tons. So in 267 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.079 that in the pictures I've seen, it's kind of at a triangular craft with 268 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:02.200 a flat sort of top with another kind of triangle protruding out right. But 269 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.799 that's that drawing. I believe that's what I did, And I'm not a 270 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:11.359 very good artist, uh, neither of the Actually the craft was very smooth. 271 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.359 There was no defined, uh lightings on it. I mean, it 272 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:21.240 was very smooth, but it was triangular, and it did have a you 273 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:26.079 know, the center of it did rise over the rest of the craft itself. 274 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:36.640 So it did have a unusual appearance. And you're saying the outside of 275 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:40.559 it was a fabric and so it didn't look like it was a solid hard 276 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:45.720 metal. Oh, it was metallic. The the that's just the term that 277 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:52.319 we used for this and of the craft is we called the fabric of it. 278 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:59.640 It was black, very opaque, like black glass, but it felt 279 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:04.960 like metal. And it did, like I said, had swary lights that 280 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.720 would run balls of light actually size of plate size that would run through the 281 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.960 fabric of the craft, which is just really really strange. The whole thing 282 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:19.240 was just really strange. Wow. Yeah, I've never in my in my 283 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:25.559 entire career ever, nothing ever prepared me for Reste in that night. Yeah, 284 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:29.000 it was. It was very different, how strange. So you could 285 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:34.119 see below that into the metal or something, and there was a light going 286 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:38.400 around it, and did you say various colors of light right, red, 287 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:45.640 blue and and running together or you just to also see some orange. But 288 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:49.359 it was it ran from the front of the craft of what appeared to be 289 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:55.400 the front with the side I was facing, and then it would run all 290 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.640 the way around it. I mean, it was a very strange effect. 291 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:04.839 Did that effect seem to change at all in relation to your movements or your 292 00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.799 closeness to it? No, that it had no effect at all. And 293 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:11.880 you know how close I was to it, as a matter of fact, 294 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.880 even when I was up to the craft, you know, looking underneathy and 295 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:23.200 he says, and checking out the material of it. I it never affected 296 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:29.079 it. I was actually when I was, I was concerned at that point, 297 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:33.279 when I knew it wasn't an aircraft crash, I was concerned of the 298 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.720 you know, the the threat to the priority resources of the base. So 299 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:41.920 I had to determine whether it was hostile or not hostile, whether it was 300 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.200 friend or foe. Well, we've got to take our first break, but 301 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.079 we'll talk more about this amazing event as soon as we get back from this 302 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.680 break. You're listening to Open Minds Radio and we're talking to James Pennison. 303 00:23:55.079 --> 00:24:21.759 To stay tuned. This is Open Minds Radio here again your host UFO paranormal 304 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:27.920 researcher and journalist Alejandro Rojas. Hello, this is Alejandro Rojas and you're listening 305 00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:33.359 to Open Minds Radio. We're talking to James Peniston, who is a staff 306 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.119 sergeant in the US Air Force and the day after Christmas, I believe in 307 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:42.160 nineteen eighty and he's telling us an incident where he had walked up upon some 308 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:48.400 strange craft sitting on the ground in the forest outside of a base in the 309 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:55.680 UK, Yes, exactly right. Like I was saying, for Will and 310 00:24:55.799 --> 00:25:00.880 Break is I had to determine if that craft was hostile or non hospitle and 311 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:04.960 or a threat to the resources. And you know, after you know, 312 00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:11.160 five to ten minutes of walking around it and looking at it, you know, 313 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.240 and there it had no apparent aggression at all or a matter of fact 314 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.799 anything and didn't do anything. How are you feeling, were you especially when 315 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.720 you first came upon it? Oh? I was. I was pretty worried. 316 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.759 Yeah, I would think it's pretty brave of you to have stayed there, 317 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:30.279 because I know, you know, when you hear stories of others coming 318 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:34.279 across strange things or or things landing, they usually run the other way. 319 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:42.200 Well, I actually would would probably liked to do that. My tight job 320 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:47.359 was to make sure it wasn't a threat. Right when I found out it 321 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:51.799 wasn't a crash, and you know, nothing happened in the five to ten 322 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:55.559 minutes, so I called it in a determined it wasn't a threat. It 323 00:25:55.640 --> 00:26:00.160 was seemed to be non hostile, and you know, I started to do 324 00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.359 my investigation of it. I started to do the you know, the measurements 325 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:10.440 and the walk around I did a three sixty walk around the craft and and 326 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:14.880 uh the I was looking for things like you you know, the exhaust, 327 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:21.400 the intakes, crew compartments. It was all voided all those things that had 328 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:25.119 nothing like that had the whole things at all. What was going through your 329 00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:30.680 mind at the time, What were you thinking of? Was or oh I 330 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:37.559 I I knew the it was a craft unknown orangin I knew that. I 331 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:44.559 mean I think I think I was just the feeling that probably overwhelmed me is 332 00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:49.599 probably astonishment. I was. I was in awe, right, Yeah, 333 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:53.720 it was. It was a very unusual event. See, I would think, 334 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.799 at least personally, being a researcher in this field, that that would 335 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.960 be you know, that's a perfect incident where you would walk up on something 336 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:04.599 like this not be frightened, be able to have that awe because you always 337 00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:10.160 think that's that's what you would feel, But then often people when they seem 338 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:14.680 to have that chance, get frightened. It took me about ten minutes to 339 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.039 calm down. I mean yeah, I mean I was making my scurity checks 340 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:19.759 and things, but it took me that long to calm down where I got 341 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:26.400 to that point, I just yeah, it was it was actually terrifying. 342 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.960 I mean that, I mean, you know, initially when I found it 343 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.640 was a crashed aircraft. You know, so did you start even right then 344 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:41.160 to to start to form the opinion that this wasn't of human origin? Well, 345 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:49.440 it was pretty obvious. The the technology for something like that. It's 346 00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:52.599 you know, I said, well, you know, I have to have 347 00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.160 engines. I knew it had to have engines. It seemed powered. I 348 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.160 don't know, you know, because of the lighting and stuff. Did it 349 00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:03.480 make any noise? Absolutely, it was sound running. Uh started running, 350 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:07.240 no sound at all. And did you touch it? Yes, I actually 351 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:11.640 examined the craft and went around and fallow it. And when I got around 352 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.480 to the one side, that's when they of all this amazing stuff that's going 353 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:19.160 on in front of me. Uh, this was even more amazing. There 354 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:26.200 was a like a pictorial etching writing on the side of the craft, right. 355 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:30.799 And you know, so I have my notebook that I was recording everything 356 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:34.640 that I was seeing, and you know, I wrote I had drawn them 357 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:41.319 out of my notebook and and uh a matter of fact, Uh, one 358 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.440 of the uh the producer that did I know what I saw? I was 359 00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.039 telling him, as James Fox, I was telling him, Uh, you 360 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.000 know when I when we did that movie, I did the movie, the 361 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.240 documentary, I said, I hate this is my book. And I showed 362 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:56.880 them a book. He says, my god, he says, it's closer. 363 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:00.920 You got to the craft, he says, instead of recording stuff. 364 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:04.920 He says, the where's your handwriting? Gout? I says, I was 365 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:10.359 a nervous wreck. I says, uh, you know I I was shaking. 366 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:15.440 Yes, m Jo. And you saw some characters that were on or 367 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:19.319 some some type of lettering or something on there, some shapes. Yes, 368 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:30.000 they were like a pictorial type of drawing. And anyway we had we've had 369 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:37.640 them since analyzed and by Cambridge University a professor over there, and I guess 370 00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:45.319 his conclusion was this is a typothesis. His conclusion was as mathematical, yeah, 371 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:49.559 which was interesting. And then the odd thing that happened just a few 372 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:57.880 weeks ago, I was sent a email on a similar pictorial type of drawing 373 00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:04.119 that I've done something like four hundred years ago from Japan. Wow. Incredible, 374 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.720 Yes, and that just blows my mind. I did. I said, 375 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:14.720 how in the world can that be? How can something has been recorded 376 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.079 four hundred years ago be on the side of that craft that night. Yeah, 377 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.440 unless they had a similar incident four hundred years ago. Well that's what 378 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:27.799 that's what this. It was on the History Channel and they actually were describing 379 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:33.920 that it was something that happened over in Japan, and they actually drew drawings 380 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:38.759 on this the incident. Oh was that on that Ancient alien show. I'm 381 00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:42.480 not sure the exact show on the channel, but you know, I only 382 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:47.680 had a piece of it this sense of me. So wow, that's amazing. 383 00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:52.839 I find it very amazing. I'm looking at these pictures now, I'm 384 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:59.079 looking at the Earth file site. Actually, if you google probably James Pennison, 385 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:00.400 you'll be able to see the symbols. But yeah, it's interesting that 386 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:06.599 they're mathematical because they don't look mathematical. Well I didn't say, well, 387 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.079 that's the last thing I would have thought too. Yeah, but who knows. 388 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.440 They said that someone I'm not I'm not going to say this, right, 389 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.880 the banachi banaki are you familiar with? I might say that, correct, 390 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:26.720 I'm not shacky. It's it's apparently everything is in threes, the ancient 391 00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:32.519 Smerian thing. Oh, yes, thank you very much. Okay, yeah, 392 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:37.279 I need help on that. Yeah, yes, and that's what was 393 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:42.599 his analysis, he says that, And he says he actually thought that this 394 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.759 would be something that you'd place on a craft that would show it was a 395 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.160 high levering craft. It was just to denote what this craft was. It 396 00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:55.079 looks like a surveyor or it looks like a drone type of craft. That 397 00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:00.640 was it analysis. So and I did read that you touched the craft and 398 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:05.480 you touched these letterings. What did the craft itself feel like? And how 399 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:10.279 did these this etched kind of lettering film or picture. Uh, the actual 400 00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:15.359 fabric of the craft felt completely smooth, and uh, the air temperture out 401 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.680 there at the time is probably I don't know, thirty six degrees thirty seven 402 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:27.160 degrees made and uh, the the touching the craft, it was warm form 403 00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.960 to touch. And then when I got to the symbols, Uh, the 404 00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:36.160 best way to describe that is they they they were part of the fabric the 405 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:40.440 craft. But it felt like when I went from the midst the material on 406 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.039 the craft to the symbols, it felt like I went from a smoothness to 407 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:51.000 sandpaper. So they're like etched in the in the side of the craft. 408 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.799 Interesting, Well, yeah, they were about three three three feet long and 409 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:59.160 they measured about six inches high. Mm hm. So you watch this thing. 410 00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:04.119 You you were take looking your notes on everything that happened and walking around 411 00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:08.759 the craft. And then what happened, Well, then the lighting on the 412 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:14.640 craft changed. Its started to be emanating a stronger more of the white light 413 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:17.720 again. And so myself, I got back with John's there and I got 414 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.599 back with John and we took like a defensive position on the ground, not 415 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:25.759 knowing that I didn't know what it was going to blow happen. Yeah, 416 00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:30.359 it wasn't sure. And it started getting very very bright to where he had 417 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:38.240 a squint again, and it lifted off the ground to tree top level with 418 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:46.319 absolutely no sounds, no air displacement at all, and then it was littery 419 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:52.119 gall in the blink of an eye. Wow. Yeah, it was so 420 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:57.359 incredible, it was it was Yeah, I guess that's the word to use, 421 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.640 is that, I don't know if there's a word to use. And 422 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.759 I was and then you know, after after that took off him and I 423 00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:07.880 looked over at John and he looked at me, and I says, John, 424 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:13.360 I said, how are we gonna explain this? Right? He just 425 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:19.559 looks at me. He was speechless, So I think the yes. I 426 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:24.039 think it was John who had said that he was recommended that if he ever 427 00:34:24.159 --> 00:34:29.679 experienced anything like that or sign anything strange, just to keep it to himself 428 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.280 and not report it because he just get too much trouble if he did, 429 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:42.760 well, the Air Force did frown upon reporting that type of phenomena after the 430 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:46.800 Blue Book was ended in sixty nine. I believe it was. And you 431 00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:52.840 know, it's just a real way of reporting it up showing the reports when 432 00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:59.000 we were de reefed the next day with the day shift commander, you know, 433 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:00.119 that was one of the things he told us. He says, I'm 434 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:04.320 not sure how we're going to report this. He says, the Project blue 435 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:09.280 Book was closed, right, and he says something. He says, Well, 436 00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:12.559 we're gonna treat you this top secret. He says, you can talk 437 00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.599 about it. And what I want you to do is, you know, 438 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.360 we're gonna give you some time off and we want to give notes and get 439 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:23.440 these reports done for it, and we'll go from there. Yep. All 440 00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:28.000 right, Well, we'll talk more about the aftermath of what happened to this 441 00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.880 sighting and if anybody wants to call in after this break. You could call 442 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:37.119 one eight sixty six five three six eleven hundred. If you're watching on the 443 00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:39.159 website and you're you're not in the Phoenix metu area. If you are in 444 00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.800 the Phoenix Mictuaria, you can call six oh two two seven seven five three 445 00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:50.960 six nine. So we'll talk more after this break about what had happened when 446 00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:57.480 they went into report this incredible incident and what happened the next day. Stay 447 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:08.239 tuned to open Mind's Radio. Welcome back to open Minds Radio. Here now 448 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:14.199 former officials, folksperson for the Mutual UFO Network, Your host of Open Minds 449 00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:20.840 Radio, Alejandro Rojas. That's me, Alejandro Rojas, your host for Open 450 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:25.079 Minds Radio. We're talking to James Peniston and some people and the chat are 451 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:30.800 asking about this incident and they're talking about the tapes that were made and the 452 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:36.119 tapes they're referring to James, that was a sighting that then happened the next 453 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:40.800 day, right, Well, they're talking about the radio traffic. Uh huh, 454 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.000 I mean all that was recorded at the wing command post. Oh, 455 00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:50.840 your radio traffic, all of it was yet okay because I know I was 456 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.480 just one of the television shows I think had played halt recording where he recorded 457 00:36:55.480 --> 00:37:02.360 their traffic as well, right, and he also did the UH the hand 458 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:07.039 recording that he had he was out there, and I was on the second 459 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.119 night with all that, that even makes you know, the whole thing just 460 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:16.400 more bizarre. And you know, it was a one of a kind event 461 00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:25.800 with me and and then for it to happen three days later again with more 462 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:35.199 witnesses and more experts out there and and radio detection and radioactive equipment and starlight 463 00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:40.320 scopes and everything else that and and here's the thing we found out. We 464 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:44.880 only found this out that we were doing another documentary back in now a few 465 00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:49.159 years ago, and we were actually over and runs from forest and when it 466 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:52.800 came down to going to the site and so were you going where you going? 467 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.519 Talk? And he says, well, I'm going to the landing size 468 00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:00.400 th it's over this way. We discovered there was two landing sites that time 469 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.679 because there was just so many similarities. The farmhouse was the same, this 470 00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.400 would have a farmhouse, I mean, everything was the same. Yeah, 471 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:15.559 I remember that time. Yeah, we never even thought about the UH having 472 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.440 the possibility of two landing sites. Mm hm. So what it means there 473 00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:23.039 was two type of craft. Two craft landed. So and was that the 474 00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:29.159 same night or the second incident was three days later? The second incident was 475 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.599 three days later, okay, And and that one was with Colonel Halton, 476 00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.599 if I understand correctly, the second group was not even aware of your incident, 477 00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.719 Okay, but not every everybody else in the team. And actually Colonel 478 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:51.360 Halt went out there to debunk it. I mean he was he was the 479 00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:53.639 first debunker, and he wanted to go ahead and just put it to bed 480 00:38:53.920 --> 00:39:00.199 and and find out a logical explanation for what was going on. Wow. 481 00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.079 And yeah, and he went out there and he became part of it. 482 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:07.639 I mean, he got into something that he couldn't explain either. Yeah. 483 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:12.119 Those are the audio tapes I've heard several times which are so interesting that they're 484 00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:15.920 just baffling out there running around. So what was the reaction when you went 485 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:20.679 back and you reported this? Well, when I when I, when I 486 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:24.760 got back to Central Security Control started channeler. He was the flight started for 487 00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:30.679 for both bases, I says, started channel He would not believe the situation 488 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:31.679 out there, he said always, he says, I believe it. He 489 00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:34.960 says I was there, he says, at the East Gate. He says, 490 00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.199 uh, he says, it's incredible. You're gonna get debrief on it. 491 00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.400 So he was in shock over it. And there John and I and 492 00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:46.800 the chef commander he was, he was pretty much speak to Sue. And 493 00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:53.199 anyway, we started doing our reports and and we got informalized in the incident 494 00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:59.960 reports that we had to do. And were you treated okay in these debris 495 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:06.679 things or did anybody treat you rough at all or or kind of try to 496 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:13.039 intimidate you? Well, initially the security police they were it's all fact funny. 497 00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.239 I mean, I'm out there trying to get facts and then reporting the 498 00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:17.840 facts to them, and that's what they were doing. They were getting the 499 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:22.480 facts from me, right. But you know, after and then I got, 500 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:28.559 of course, called in the Colonel Halt's office three days later after his 501 00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:32.000 incident, and he says, I got but he played the tape for me 502 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.239 and I said, my god, I said, there's no way that this 503 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:44.320 can happen twice wet once in our lifetime. And he agreed, Wow, 504 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:47.760 So you didn't know about their experience till three days after that happened, that's 505 00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:53.679 correct, because we were we were put on the six day leave. That 506 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:59.639 must have made you feel pretty good that you were what had happened was confirmed. 507 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:02.400 Yeah, that's exactly right. Said, Oh my god, I'm so 508 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:07.800 glad that the base commander w the base commander you know under actually seen a 509 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.559 too, because you know, even though had I witnesses watching him take off 510 00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:19.599 the craft and that you know, it was still it was a good they 511 00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:25.320 validated. And then uh, with their intent, do you think that they 512 00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:31.519 saw the same thing. Were their descriptions similar to yours? Identical? Identical? 513 00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:36.000 Yeah, because I remember there was a large triangular craft with lots of 514 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:40.159 lights on it as well. They yeah, they've seen. Actually one of 515 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:46.320 the descriptions that that you will help use just the it was odd. There's 516 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.119 more, there's like I think three or four I don't quote me on that 517 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:55.000 the craft there and they were doing a grid search like they're looking for something, 518 00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:59.280 you know, gritting off the area. And you know that's incredible too. 519 00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:02.119 I mean, like, I don't know, it's it's a pretty amazing 520 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:09.000 story. M one. Then eventually you were on Larry King just a couple 521 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:15.480 of years ago regarding this story, and he seemed really amazed by what you 522 00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:19.559 all had to say. At one point, he was kind of defending you 523 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:23.840 and your experience against the debunker guy they had on there who was saying you 524 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:30.559 mistook some cosmic thing for for craft on the ground, right, But you 525 00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:36.280 know he was doing that and they all and I appreciate Larry doing that, 526 00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:39.639 but you don't. He don't have to. It doesn't matter anybody if they 527 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:43.719 don't believe us, that's fine. I don't care. Yeah, you know, 528 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.079 we know what we've seen, right and what we reported. And the 529 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:52.679 other thing is I never talked bad about other veterans either. Yeah, I 530 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:55.280 won't. I won't put I would not talk bad about the debucker on the 531 00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:02.480 show loves It. Yeah, well that's very admirable. I know that there 532 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:06.840 was no lighthouse. I mean it's more insulting, but you know, you 533 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:08.760 get over that. I mean, we know what the lighthouses. We knew 534 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:12.920 that they were at we were I was stationed at that base for quite a 535 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.559 while, worked out there every night. I mean, it's just no way 536 00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:21.360 we can get stuff like that confused. And actually we were experts on identifying 537 00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:27.960 aircraft, so that was your job, that was our job. On Larry 538 00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:30.079 King when you were on the show. Did he express what did he say 539 00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:34.039 to you guys kind of behind the scenes. Did he seem, you know, 540 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:38.320 like he believed in your story? Oh? I believe he genuinely believed 541 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:47.559 it. Yes, yeah, he he was very sympathetic about it and understood 542 00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.960 the uh, the the trauma that we went through. I mean, that's 543 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:58.719 the other part of this thing that's just crazy. Is it is the it's 544 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:05.239 a light changing event mm hmm. And anybody was I think it wasn't uh 545 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.760 is definitely wrong. It's a life changing event that changes your life, the 546 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:13.679 course that you take and what you do and how you look at things. 547 00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.320 Mm hmm. Yeah. I could just imagine. I mean, had you 548 00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:23.599 really thought much about UFOs or they of extra tractional life prior to that? 549 00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:29.320 Oh? And I never believed any of that, you know, I thought, 550 00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.239 yeah it does. Yeah, I mean that could be. That's just 551 00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:37.880 what must be doubly incredible for so many people who they never even think about 552 00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.920 this subject and then all of a sudden they're faced with it. Well, 553 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.239 yeah, here was, you know, a space to face with it. 554 00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.920 And I knew at that point that I was wrong my entire life. I 555 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:52.840 was wrong about this. You know that there's there's just no way that this 556 00:44:52.960 --> 00:45:00.400 craft could even be replicated today technology. I mean, it was u if 557 00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:02.400 they could. I don't want to write on that, baby. Oh yeah, 558 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.320 I can't tell you what it was. Definitely tell you what it wasn't 559 00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:12.519 right well, and there wasn't anything that was in James Booker aircraft. Was 560 00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:15.360 it anything that the Russians had or we had, or any bird pipes or 561 00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:21.559 nothing like that. Well, that was another interesting aspect of it, especially 562 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:25.000 your Larry King special. I mean he had had UFO researchers and debunkers on 563 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:29.400 before kind of debating this whole thing, and I believe Yeah, even Seth 564 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:31.199 Shostak was on the show, and Bill Nye and some of these others, 565 00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:37.119 but they really were at a loss to explain what you all had seen. 566 00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.679 Your credibility was all very high, Like you said, you had the Colonel 567 00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:47.159 Halt there with you all, and you know, that's what I thought was 568 00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:52.079 interesting. I wish some of the UFO pro guys would have kind of pinned 569 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:53.559 them down to let them say, you know what, what was this? 570 00:45:53.719 --> 00:46:00.920 What's your hypothesis on what these guys might have seen? Because really they never 571 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:05.440 got to that answer. They were right, and that's where I think it's 572 00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.679 fair for people to have all these different hypotheses about I'll tell you what. 573 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:15.199 There was no concern with the anybody might change command about our credibility. I 574 00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:21.360 mean, i'll tell you Within one month after the incident, I was promoted 575 00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:25.440 and I was put in charge of the nice of plans and programs for the 576 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:30.800 for the base, and you know I were all the defense plans and the 577 00:46:30.039 --> 00:46:36.440 Cower terrorism plans, I mean they and of course I didn't have a top 578 00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:45.159 secer clearance, and so I had about fourteen you know meetings and debriefings with 579 00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.920 the command structure, I mean like Colonel Hoff, the wing command, the 580 00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:54.920 base commander. They had couple with OSI which were not very good. But 581 00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:59.960 yeah, maybe we could talk more about that next time. Unfortunately, were 582 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:02.880 about out of time. Thank you so much for being on the show and 583 00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.760 sharing this incredible experience, and thanks for being so brave to come forward and 584 00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:10.840 share it with everyone. Well, thank you for loving me. Come on, 585 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.159 ye all right, talk to you soon. Next week. We've got 586 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:21.519 Nancy Talbot. She of course is the crop Circle science researcher, the best 587 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:23.719 in the field and she's going to be talking to us about the crop circles 588 00:47:23.719 --> 00:47:29.800 of two thousand and nine because it really shocked her and some amazing things happen 589 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:34.960 that have never happened before. So join us next week for Nancy Talbot on 590 00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:39.159 Open Minds Radio. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Please 591 00:47:39.320 --> 00:48:05.239 can say do you watch your fad so like a wise but folks back home