WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.359 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about 2 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:06.879 a way that you can help support the podcast. If you're not already, 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.919 we would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or 4 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:16.039 Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized, 5 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.320 and you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate 6 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:24.039 your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to 7 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:29.199 become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that started just five dollars 8 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:32.880 a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all of 9 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:36.520 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, 10 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:41.759 we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is the 11 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:47.799 biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd 12 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.439 like to, and we really appreciate that. So go and check us out 13 00:00:51.479 --> 00:01:02.799 at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations, Covert SB and 14 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:15.319 I The Team House with Your Hopes, Jack Murphy and David Bark. Welcome 15 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.799 to episode two hundred and sixty eight of The Team House. I'm Jack here 16 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:25.640 with Dave and our guest on tonight's show is Melvin Downs, who served in 17 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:30.319 the British military, starting as a boy soldier at age sixteen, went all 18 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.560 the way up and retired as a Sergeant major in the Special Air Service. 19 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:38.560 We're really excited to have him on the show tonight. You guys can find 20 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.560 him on Instagram at Melvin Downs. That's n E l v y n d 21 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:49.000 w nes Go check him out and you'll find links in the description to his 22 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:55.840 Instagram and also his YouTube channel that's gonna be popping probably next week the day 23 00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:00.400 if you want to. Yeah. Well, first off, welcome and we 24 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:05.840 really appreciate you being here. Thanks, Thanks Dave, Thanks Team House, 25 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.400 and it's great to be able to chat to you guys, especially across the 26 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:13.000 pond. Yeah, exactly. Before we get started, we just want to 27 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.159 give a shout out, quick shout out to our sponsor, Legacy Give Legacy 28 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:22.719 dot com. Legacy provides sperm testing and freezing from home, eliminating the need 29 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:28.800 for visits to a doctor or traditional fertility clinic. So how it works, 30 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.680 Legacy will send a sample collection kit to a client's home, men produce a 31 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.360 semen sample at home and send the kit back within twenty four hours, so 32 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.840 nothing out of the usual for most of us out there. 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Check out their programs. You might be 49 00:03:55.960 --> 00:04:01.879 you know, eligible for some for some discounts or you know, some cooperation 50 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:05.080 with them. And even if you're not, check them out. Family painting 51 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:09.639 is important and they're a great resource. So thank you and back to you 52 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:14.280 Melvins. Oh Melvine, I want to jump right into it and ask you 53 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:16.879 about, you know, your origins and kind of your upbringing, how you 54 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:20.319 came to be, what your upbringing as a kid was like, and how 55 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:26.920 that sort of propelled you towards military service. Yes, sure, it's about 56 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.279 to start with my dad. He came from Jamaica in the early fifties, 57 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:36.680 nineteen fifty two from the Ring from the wind rush era, and he came 58 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:43.040 to rebuild the UK after the Second World War and then he met my mom 59 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:48.240 and met here in Stoke Contrent. Now, if you don't know about UK 60 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.040 Stow Contrent, it's in the Midlands, it's in the art of the country 61 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:59.319 and at that time, especially in Stoke Contrent, there where my dad settled 62 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.759 because he went down the pits being a minor, and the area he settled 63 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:08.600 in was an area called Bental Lee. Now Bentley was a large councils. 64 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.759 I was in a state which I think is a bit like the projects over 65 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:14.439 your way, but it was a brand new one. It was a massive 66 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.439 estate. Actually when it was first got built in the fifties, it was 67 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:24.759 the largest in Europe. It was massive. But the difference was in this 68 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:30.600 estate it was just mainly white working class because this is back back in the 69 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:35.160 fifties. And he met the mom and their parents at that time didn't like 70 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.399 the idea of a black guy going out, a Jamaican black guy going out 71 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.639 with a white girl. And they were both young, very very young. 72 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.399 So she left home and he just went and made their way anyway. The 73 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:51.680 dad worked harready settled in this estate and that's where I was brought up and 74 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:56.920 Bentley Council. I was in the States. But what was a well, 75 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.680 not a problem, but what I was looked at as different because there was 76 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:06.240 literally an am fault of black people and on that state, and there was 77 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:11.759 something like eleven twelve people on that state and it was mainly white working class 78 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:14.839 miners. And you know, wild working people, and so there we we 79 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:18.839 settled. There was a lot especially you know, I was born in sixty 80 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:21.439 four, so by the time I got there it was sixty seven. I 81 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:26.279 can remember it. It was there was a lot of racial tension back in 82 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:30.720 them days. So I had a lot of bullying, a lot of odd 83 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:34.839 knocks growing up. And so then the dad, we got the Auspurgls, 84 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:38.279 We had petitions, people didn't want us there. I think it was just 85 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:43.160 it was just a totally different time and a differentia. You know. However, 86 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:47.560 I just I'm thankful that the positive was it made me the person who 87 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:51.959 I am because I literally going to school in my year there was like one 88 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:57.879 other well in the entire school, there's one other black guy and an Asian 89 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:00.680 girl. So that's that's what it was the case of. So from a 90 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:04.000 very young age, I was bullied and I had to fight back, and 91 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.399 my dad told me fight back. But apart from that, you know, 92 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:13.879 it was just that time and I made the best friends there. And the 93 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:16.000 way I look at it, if it was the other way around, if 94 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:23.439 it was just a couple of white guys or a mixed race family living in 95 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.000 a large black area, it'd be exactly the same. You get picked up, 96 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:30.199 picked on until you know, people knew who you were. And then 97 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.720 my dad especially he's a really respectful person, but he'd also stand up for 98 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:40.680 himself. So even he you know, it'd fight his own he'd fight his 99 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:46.199 battles and he'd be proud and all that. So growing up was quite difficult, 100 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:47.600 but like I said, it made me the person they am, and 101 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.000 I made really good friends there. I'm not knocking the place. I still 102 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:54.079 love the area. It was just a total deaf Interia. And and the 103 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:57.879 way I look at it, if you go back at thirty years from then 104 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:00.680 or whatever, you know, women didn't even have the I don't think, 105 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:05.759 you know, and let alone gay people being welcomed in anywhere and so on. 106 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.560 So it was just a different time and a different place. But as 107 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:15.920 I said, so growing up it was quite difficult, but you had to 108 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:20.079 learn to be fight, fight and look after yourself and basically that was it 109 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:22.839 or you just get buoyed and trodden on. Anyway. I always want to 110 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.560 go in the in the military because did Jamaicans. They loved the Queen and 111 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:30.240 it was the Motherland, that's what they called, you know, the Caribbeans, 112 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.720 and he used to make me stand up whenever the national anthem was on 113 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:37.720 TV and then I'd be watching all the trooping of the colors. And from 114 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.440 a very young age, I just loved anything to do with the military. 115 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.720 So that was it. I was on it. So eleven years old, 116 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:46.320 I joined what was known as the Army Cadet. Say it's a bit like 117 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:52.600 the Scouts, but your fire weapons as well. But it's ut all military 118 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.799 minded. So you learn navigation skills, you learn survivalor you go camping, 119 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.919 you learn medical skill and to me, that's what I really enjoyed, because 120 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.200 I'm not at all academic. In the school we went back in the day 121 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:09.039 you just did what you want really, so that made sense to me. 122 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:13.559 It was doing something what I thought, Okay, this is what's needed in 123 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.000 life, whereas trying Why do you not know about geology or geography? You 124 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:22.120 know what sort of stones this and that? So that was me. I 125 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.279 was looked on going in the military, so I joined the Army codecs at 126 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.759 sixteen, I mean sorry, at eleven, and then at sixteen when once 127 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:37.039 I left school two weeks later, I was in the British Army as a 128 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.720 sixteen year old, you do what's known as it's a junior leader's battalion or 129 00:09:41.799 --> 00:09:46.320 junior infantry, so you's a soldier, but you can't go on operational tours. 130 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.840 So instead of doing if you joined when you were say eighteen, you 131 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.559 would spend something like eighteen weeks basic training, whereas as a sixteen year old 132 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:58.759 you did one year's basic training and there's you know, basic training. It's 133 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.639 tough, so we had a lot longer time of it. But I loved 134 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:05.440 every minute of it and actually got to give you a rank system there. 135 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:09.080 So I made it to Solgiant major in the Junior Army, and that was 136 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:13.639 because I was in the cadet, so I already had a I already knew 137 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:18.240 some basic drill and basic tactics and some weapons and navigation and first aid, 138 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:24.120 so I really shone there anyway. From sixteen then I went to my parent 139 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.399 unit, which was an infantry unit, and back in the day, you 140 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.000 go to their normal infantry unit which was around your area. So I joined 141 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:37.279 the Staffordure Regiment and it's all guys from the Midlands where I am from Stoke 142 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:41.039 on Trent and Birmingham area, so you sort of know people. It's like 143 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.480 the old Pal's regiment they starting. It's not as much now. They've sort 144 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:48.600 of change a bit like the American system where you can be from all over 145 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:52.480 the place, but here it was mainly guys from more a certain area of 146 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.600 the UK, about say seventy percent BEE from that area. So I love 147 00:10:56.679 --> 00:11:01.759 that and I loved everything about the middle of my first posting was you brought 148 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.919 it. So I had a year out there and to me, it's fantastic. 149 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.240 This was a seventeen year old and when we moved back to the UK 150 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:15.039 as an eighteen year old, and then we started training up to go to 151 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.519 Northern Ireland. So I went on the first operational tour of Northern Ireland. 152 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.279 As ay, I was nineteen by the time we got there and back in 153 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.840 this time this is like nineteen eighty four. I was a natural close observation 154 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.879 platoon and what this meant just lying in bushes for up to ten days and 155 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.120 night so observing where terrorists lightly terrorist, I was just wearing reporting on them 156 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:41.080 and so on. So it was like a specialist platoon within the infantry and 157 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:48.279 I really enjoyed that. However, that was like the first taste of operations, 158 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:50.679 and then I ended up losing a good friend and a couple of others, 159 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:54.679 so then you realize, wow, this is for real. But it 160 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.120 was really unusual because Northern Ireland, it's part of Great Britain, and you 161 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.840 could be walking and on street and everybody loves you, and then you cross 162 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:03.480 the road into another street and everybody ate you. Then you cross the over 163 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:07.720 road and so on, and there you are as a young soldier, you 164 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.320 just try and be neutral, keep the peace, and yeah, it's just 165 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:18.919 really confusing. Anyway, that was my first operational tour, and then that's 166 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:22.399 when I really got wind of the SAS because what used to happen. We'd 167 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:28.039 be lying in these observation posts, watching a terrorist house and just seeing for 168 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:33.639 activities, and then if we potentially sort we've seen something like maybe weapons moving 169 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.679 in and out and so on, we would pass up to our HQ and 170 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:41.440 then suddenly you'd have these other guys come in move us out. And these 171 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:46.000 guys turn up like with beards and everything, and they're like who it is, 172 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.279 and they go in there and then they take over the job if they 173 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.399 think it's going to go down. And then I found out these were the 174 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:54.639 sees I thought, right, this is what I want to be doing. 175 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:58.879 I want to go joining this. So that was my first time at any 176 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:05.799 indication of joining the Special Forces. But i'll tell you what happened later on 177 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.399 as I go through my career about why I got put off that. Anyway, 178 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:15.559 I came back from that first tour of Northern Ireland and then we went 179 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:20.039 to Germany, and that's like when the first time I've sort of started working 180 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.960 with Americans or met Americans, because we go down to American bases and you 181 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.200 had all the lovely px's and stuff like that. So it was like over 182 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.799 there for the Cold War. And then I went back to Northern Ireland for 183 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:37.039 a second tour, but this time I was a corporal, so I was 184 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.919 in charge of eight people. So the first time was a private and the 185 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.840 second time as a corporal. Anyway, in between this, we had a 186 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:46.519 lot of guys go for the SCS selection for my unit, but they'd only 187 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.600 ever been one guy getting before and one officer and I didn't know him. 188 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:52.519 And you know, we have lots and lots of guys trying, but very 189 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.360 very few get in. As I said, I was actually feared of a 190 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:01.000 person, but many go go for it, and then they come back with 191 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.519 excuses instead of just saying I wasn't good enough, I v w'd. They 192 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.039 come back with all the instructor and line meal, is this, that and 193 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.799 the other. And I remember this guy and he was a really good, 194 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.799 good guy and he got to the jungle phase and then he came back and 195 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.279 I said to him, right, I want to go for that, and 196 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:18.559 he said, no, you can't go for that. Now, I guess 197 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:20.360 why is that? He goes, oh, because you're black, but goes, 198 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.639 what's that got to do with it? And he said, wow, 199 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.679 we were called it's mainly in Northern Ireland under COVID. They have to hang 200 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.480 around the bars and blend in. Back in that day, there's no way, 201 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:35.519 you know, I am got ginger and threttles. Being black in Ireland 202 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.639 you got to be hard as nails. Yeah, So I thought, okay, 203 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.960 that's a fair point. So I never even thought about going for the 204 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:48.519 s S again until we had this officer came to our unit and he did 205 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:52.120 two years in the sees and I remember seeing him and he come to my 206 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:58.200 company and he was just so different than the normal officers. Normally, you 207 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.960 know, he gets some good offices. But in the British on we have 208 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:05.360 some officers they just turn up and they walking the dog and they're watching all 209 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:09.799 the troops doing their work and they they can. They're more concerned with doing 210 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.120 how good you are at drilling inspections and they've got a big shack on the 211 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.919 camp and they want make sure everything's immaculate and so on. This guy didn't 212 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:20.840 He didn't want any of that. He won't bothered with the bullshit and if 213 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.039 you were good at drill or how good the rooms were and how clean the 214 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.200 rooms were. All he was concerned is if you was if you could shoot, 215 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.039 move and communicate you as a good soldier on the ground. And he 216 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:33.320 was deferent. He was there with you all the time, and he really 217 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.759 inspired me. Anyway, he goes to me, this was after done a 218 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:41.960 second tour of duty an Ireland. He goes to me, why don't you 219 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.080 go for the SS And I told him the exact same story because I can't 220 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:48.840 say and he goes, why is that because of being black? And he 221 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:50.519 just stopped and I told him that, you know, I have to go 222 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.320 under cover an island and he just based out laughing, and he goes, 223 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.080 obviously you couldn't go sitting in a pub, you stick out there, but 224 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:00.480 you could be on the reactive side, the COVID side, and there's lots 225 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.399 more goes on in the will that than you think about. You should go 226 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.320 for it. So that was me then convinced. I'm like, right, 227 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:11.919 I'm going to go for this. So this is now about nineteen yeah and 228 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:17.200 nineteen eighty nine, and I've just done a second tour due to the Northern 229 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:21.279 Ireland, so that's two operational tours. Anyway, I put an on the 230 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.879 paperwork for go on the SCS selection, and by this time it's nineteen ninety 231 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.399 and then we was an armored Infantry regiment now because were based in Germany, 232 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.679 and we got the new armored fighting vehicle which was the Warrior at the time, 233 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:36.559 a bit like your Bradley. So I was a corporal in charge of 234 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:41.399 including myself ten people in this in this vehicle. And then we got told 235 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:45.080 about the Gulf War and all that was starting a stir up and we was 236 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.480 going to be going over there, So I withdrew my paperwork because I thought 237 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.480 there's no way I'm going to go on SS selection. My unit's going to 238 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.320 go to war, right, so I've bit from the paperwork. And then 239 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.799 we went over on the First Gulf, on the first called for in the 240 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:06.400 nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety one, and we was deployed over there. We 241 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.440 actually went and something like the August and we're just hanging around the desert doing 242 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.200 all the maneuvers and everything. And it was fantastic because they give you that 243 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:17.880 much ammunition because you were the build up for the war. And again we 244 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.000 was working with the US Marines at stages, you know, sometimes we'll have 245 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.000 changeovers, they coming out of vehicles. We were going there. Bradley's all 246 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.559 tactics together and it was great. I really enjoyed all that. And then 247 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.039 but we never thought that war would happen. However, then when it did, 248 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.440 even though it was only on you know, four days and nights, 249 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.920 it was short and sharp and that was like the first introduction to proper combat. 250 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:47.279 And on that I you know, I was in my first real engagement 251 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.839 and we lost a couple of guys. Saw it happing and you to be 252 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:55.559 too objective, So that was like a proper combat scenario. Anyway, we 253 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:57.920 came back from the ninety before before moving on, I mean, could you 254 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.400 tell us about that fire fight in what transpired there? Oh? Yeah, 255 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.160 Well, first of all, where it was we was told right, okay, 256 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.400 we was armed infantry. So as an infantry battalion in their armor fire 257 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:18.759 vehicles working close with the challenges tanks isn't the support. So you work together, 258 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.759 and then we get orders to go, we're going to be attacking this 259 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.079 position. So we dug in on the boarder first of all, watching all 260 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.880 the bombardma go off for about a month, and then it came right, 261 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.559 this is it. Now it's happening. We're going in. And remember all 262 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:37.480 the MRS's going in, all the rockets, and it was like it was 263 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.240 shaking our vehicle. So I meant in the back with all the lads and 264 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:45.680 I might just think how bad it is on that side, you know, 265 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:49.000 we were on this side anyway. We thought we was going to go to 266 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:52.039 do this attack, and when we got there there was nothing left. It 267 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:59.039 was just people wanting surrender and so on. And then that happened again and 268 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:02.400 we heard out weed over the radio that a couple of hour guys are being 269 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:06.000 injured in another company, and they had a full on attack. So in 270 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:07.000 a way, we was like, this, come on, we want to 271 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.599 have our share, you know what I mean. And we just thought nothing's 272 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.759 going to happen, because every time we got to somewhere it was over the 273 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.279 fierce, say forty eight hours, there was just nothing left and people just 274 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.720 wanting to surrender. And then we were told, right, okay, we're 275 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:29.160 going to this other area and instead of being a battalion size it's only in 276 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:33.640 a company size location. We're just going to attack that. But when we 277 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.079 got there, literally a tam being touched and there was hundreds and hundreds of 278 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.279 guys coming out of the trenches and most of them wanted to render. However, 279 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.720 we started getting incoming and the warriors, so then we were told move 280 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:51.359 forward and take the objective. And it was really confusing because then as you're 281 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:55.160 taking the objective, there was also people trying surrender and pockets or enemy firing. 282 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:59.440 What happened was and this is what I'd say, this is one of 283 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.079 the proudest he's still in my military career, because we was told that as 284 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.519 a commanders were told you have to be in the back of the vehicle when 285 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.960 you open them doors, so you can push the blokes out, make sure 286 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:15.039 everybody gets out when the when the incoming starts. But I said to my 287 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:18.079 blokes, I'll be at the door, at the front door, and I'll 288 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:19.960 be the first out. Make sure you guys follow me, because if you 289 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:26.960 don't and I come back, yeah, you know, I wouldn't to be 290 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.119 anyway. And one time he was getting the incoming. We could hear the 291 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.839 incoming on the on the vehicle and we knew it was getting a lot of 292 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:37.279 incoming. Got through an area and we did boors and I looked left and 293 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:38.720 right and you've got all your guys there, and then just started doing the 294 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.920 drills because as you know, when you practice drills that much, you forget 295 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.079 about all the other ship that's going on. You're just into that drill mode, 296 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:51.559 which is brilliant. Anyway, that was happening, and then we took 297 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.480 a position and people surrendering. Then about fifty meters to the right there's a 298 00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:00.759 bunch of rakies waving white flags and wanting surrender. So my mate's vehicle went 299 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:06.200 to the side and it was bizarre what happened. And they were the buzzed 300 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.559 and they come around the side of their vehicle and as they come around the 301 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.319 side of their vehicle, these guys, somebody fired an RPG from this group 302 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:17.880 and they hit the sand and bounced up, and then the entire war edited. 303 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:21.519 One of the guys core mote, you know, went through them, 304 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.119 hit the vehicle but then went up in the air and it sort of exploded 305 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.559 in the air, and the two lads next to him right by and nothing 306 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:32.960 happened to him. They just thought it was the smokes gege is going off 307 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.039 and all white phosphorus. And so then that happened, you know, literally 308 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.920 fifteen meters away right in the front of us. So that was obviously taling 309 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:48.200 and and so on. So that was like the face full on combat because 310 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.240 before in Northern Ireland we've had things happening with terrorists, but not a proper 311 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:57.759 full on fire five yeah, yeah, it's bizarre. And then we carried 312 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:03.119 on moving forward. Then the next day we altered right on the Bazzer Road 313 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:07.240 and were told weight there and we didn't realize then but this was the end. 314 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:08.559 We got to know that was it, and it was just as the 315 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:12.960 Bazzer Road, literally it must have been hours before all the vehicles were moving 316 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.680 up for them Kuwait and the rakers. You're just trying and run up this 317 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.119 Bazzer road and get back into Iraq and Baghdad or wherever Basra and Baghdad. 318 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.319 So they were leaving Kuwait coming up and it's a six lane highway, so 319 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.680 they had all their tanks on the on their sides going up and their vehicles 320 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:37.200 and they stoleed all civilian vehicles, including coaches and whatever, and they were 321 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:42.960 all just literally bumper to bumper vehicles and you can imagine the coalisting forces just 322 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.039 went up and down the road and just blitzed everything. So it was a 323 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:52.279 really bizarre side. We stopped there and they were still burn in vehicles. 324 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.920 There's bodies everywhere. Most vehicles were completely bent out, but a lot of 325 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.960 them they've just been shot up and they haven't been touched. And we was 326 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:02.880 told right waiting ear now and the rumors come that it's gonna be the end 327 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.240 of the war, and that was it. And we just sat there and 328 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:10.799 so don't don't move because we've been dropping dropping our own mines around the area 329 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.319 that the air force had, so there's all mines everywhere. But you know 330 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:17.680 what it's like. Italian stop and I'm a corporal in charge of my tanker. 331 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:22.440 Like this, you're board and you start just looking around and checking everything 332 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.880 out. And yeah, it was just a really weird scene. That was 333 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.759 like a scene from how all these burnt out vehicles and you go on a 334 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:38.519 coach and this one coach all these dead I rackis that's but the vehicle ants 335 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:42.000 sat on fire, so that it was just like something from an horror movie. 336 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.440 You know. It was really weird because you hadn't seen anything like that 337 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.720 before. And it took about three days before the engineers come up, came 338 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.279 up and then moved all started moving all the vehicles and that off. So 339 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.839 that was it. So it's like a shortened shop. Yeah, war really 340 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:02.599 anyway, I came back from that now this is ninety one, and then 341 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:06.559 I thought, right, I'm going to go straight on SS selection. However, 342 00:24:06.680 --> 00:24:10.480 they put me straight on my sergeant's course, and there I went on 343 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.759 this. I thought, right, okay, this would be good because you 344 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.119 have to do this course even within the SES, but on you in the 345 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.119 SS if you get once you get to the rank of sergeant. So I 346 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.400 for if I get the course in, now that's a bonus and it will 347 00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.359 give me more experience. So I went to this course. As soon as 348 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.400 I passed it, they made me up to my sergeant. Now I've got 349 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.880 a four platoon and we also got an emergency tour of Northern Ireland. So 350 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.680 this is my third two of Northern Ireland. First time was a private, 351 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.519 second time a corporal in charge of eight guys, and now I've got thirty 352 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:47.920 guys and the young lieutenant. Because basically the sergeants would run it anyway. 353 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.720 So I thought, right, I can't go on SS selection now, why 354 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.519 my guys are going to Northern Ireland again. So I did another two of 355 00:24:55.559 --> 00:25:00.559 Northern Ireland and by the time I finished that it was I guess we can 356 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.640 move back to Germany. And that's when I finally got to go on SAS 357 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.920 selection. So I thought to myself, while I've had free operational twos the 358 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.559 duty of Northern Ireland, I've been in a proper fur on war. I'm 359 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:17.559 already a sergeant with twelve years experience in the infantry and arbit inventry. I 360 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:18.880 thought, right, and you know I'm good to go. I've got you 361 00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:22.839 know, I'll be good for the Special Forces. I'll be hitting the ground 362 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.680 running boy, little do you know? And then once you get in there, 363 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.440 within about eighteen months you've done a lot more and it's just like craziness 364 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.720 city. Yeah, yeah, you do so much. So anyway, I 365 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:40.720 went on selection. So now this is January nineteen ninety four. I went 366 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:45.039 on a winter selection course and there actually passed the first time when I got 367 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:51.200 into the dscad in SAS. So that was the start of my military career. 368 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:56.839 It's an amazing start the way you phrased it, the start, I 369 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:03.440 mean, you did four deployments with the conventional military, including combat. What 370 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.599 was it like, you know, you're a platoon sergeant going to SAS selection. 371 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:10.759 I mean, what was that experience like? I mean it it feels 372 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:14.680 like maybe you were better prepared for it than say, you know, a 373 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.400 younger junior guy who didn't have as much experience. Yeah, sure, Jack. 374 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.559 And then in hindsight, I'm glad now looking back that when I first 375 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.799 wanted to go for it, I most probably want to you know past you 376 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:29.839 never know, but I don't think I was mature enough at the time, 377 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.640 so I had a lot more experience. However, you find most most blokes 378 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.640 who go on it were a senior lance, corporals and corporals. You know, 379 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.680 you get a few sergeants on it, and even to go on it, 380 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.440 you've got to have done back then you start to have done at least 381 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:52.200 three years and being a standard. So generally you get guys who are really 382 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:56.039 up for it, and especially nowadays, they have to take everyone who wants 383 00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.839 to go on the selection and they go away for a beat up first, 384 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.359 have a weekend and everything, and they do all basic sex just just to 385 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:07.440 make sure they are fit enough to start the course. Because what was happening 386 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.279 in the past, lots of guys were putting in to go on this course 387 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.680 and then even if they failed and come back after a week, they were 388 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.000 they were looked upon as an ero because nobody knew anything about that, right, 389 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:19.559 That's what I said. I never did, and it was like wow, 390 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:22.319 and they were coming back all these stories, but you're still give them 391 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.680 so much respect because they went there. You know, it was just it 392 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:30.920 was just that side the scenario. So yeah, I in eyesight, yeah 393 00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:36.200 it did. It did definitely help me because of having the experience, but 394 00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:41.160 as you know, it's it's a totally different way of life. But I 395 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.920 say, like the normal Army is like we call the Green Army. It's 396 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.200 great. I really enjoyed it. You know, you always go back to 397 00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.680 your roots. I love that time of being a sergeant and having troops and 398 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.079 command. But once soon as you get into the Special Forces, it's totally 399 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.920 different. Instead of being formal, it's it's informal. Everybody knows you buy 400 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.519 your name. There's no saluting, there's no yes sir, no sir, 401 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.960 and there's no bullshit like marching around. No wine in the case, it's 402 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:11.880 just because you haven't got time. Everything's operations, operations, operations, and 403 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.880 if you're not on operations, preparing for an operations. And if you're not 404 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:18.480 preparing for operations, you're you're on an intense training, you know, training, 405 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:23.119 getting over courses going and then last but not least, there's a bit 406 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.440 of leave if you can never fit it turn and as you know, you 407 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.079 just that that's that's a luxury. So it was just full on I and 408 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:34.559 I really I really enjoyed that. The selection process. Don't get me wrong, 409 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:41.440 it was the oddiest, h physical and mental thing I've done in my 410 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:42.799 life. And that's why it's meant to be. It's meant to push you 411 00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:48.839 to your physical limits and also psychological, your mental limits. But what nearly 412 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:53.119 broke me is when I first got there. Mine was the first combined one 413 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:57.079 where the Marines, the SBS, and SES did the entire course together, 414 00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:02.359 because prior to this, the SBS used to do their own ills phase, 415 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:06.039 the aptitude phase part and then you door meet up in the jungle. And 416 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:10.240 this was the first time everybody was together. So there was all these big 417 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:18.160 marines because they generally marines in our military do more fitness. It's an order 418 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:19.880 course get in than the normal army, than the normal infantry. And then 419 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.880 you've got the parers and they do more fitness they have to do. Generally, 420 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.400 did more difficult get in the powers than a normal infantry course. Even 421 00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.920 though infantry is great. These guys do a bit more training. So a 422 00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:37.160 lot of the people who go for the Special Forces were from either a parachute 423 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.039 background or a marine background. And I remember going there and looking at these 424 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:47.279 guys, and some of them you think man mountains, you know, I 425 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.480 I nearly site myself out of it thinking because I was the only guy for 426 00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:52.960 my unit, and he's town to people there and I'm looking at these guys, 427 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:56.119 thinking they could work forever with a mountain on the back. And then 428 00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.480 you've got these very, very intelligent offices. I listened to all these officers 429 00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.440 speaking and I'm just lying on my bump bed. You know, you're just 430 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.880 in big rooms and listening to these guys and who were officers, and they 431 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.200 were saying, oh about their university, and they were coming out with these 432 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:12.960 big wirds. I didn't even know what they meant, you know. I 433 00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.759 mean, I'm like, God, one, I'm not going to be fit 434 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.880 enough, and two I'm not intelligent, intelligent enough for this. So I 435 00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:25.519 nearly signed myself out. But then as you start the course, suddenly you 436 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:30.759 see these big fit guys just falling out of it because mentally it doesn't matter. 437 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.440 It's up there. As you know, you keep going, and the 438 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.559 pain barrier is the same for everyone, so you're pushing yourself and pushing yourself. 439 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:42.279 And that sort of motivated me. And then and also I had an 440 00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:47.640 incident. What happened there again going onto not so much a bullying incident, 441 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:51.400 but it was a bit of a racial incident. What happened there and mine 442 00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:53.200 on a bump bed, and all these guys they're talking about the roots that 443 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.200 they're going to go on, and they had a bunch of six lags, 444 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:00.440 all from the paras and they were talking about the thing this is going to 445 00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.200 be the next route. I had no idea, and nobody really does. 446 00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.240 But there's only so many routes you can go around the breck and beacons. 447 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.480 There's only so many earls there. You know, you can go up these 448 00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.880 mountains one day, but you don't know which mountain. And these guys thought 449 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.200 they knew the area, and they were all just talking together. So I'm 450 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:19.039 lying on the one bed and I was just like a normal infantry guy. 451 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.200 I jumped up to him. I goes, hi, guys, could you 452 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.519 mind if I have a look at the map? Do you mind if you 453 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:27.599 let me know but this? And one of them just turn around, and 454 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.200 you know, because you went power trained is they started calling names and one 455 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.720 of them come out with like a racial word, a really bad slay, 456 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:37.960 And you know, I was so angry because I was always told to stick 457 00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:41.640 up for yourself and they didn't. Because I thought in the back of my 458 00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:47.480 mind that if I start arguing the five one, there was five or six 459 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.519 of them. They battered me. But it wasn't that. I've been battered 460 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.839 all my life, but I stood up myself, stood up from the south. 461 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.599 Doesn't matter if you get kicking, you've just got to You've got to 462 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.400 defend yourself against the bully. But I thought tom My Dad, and I'm 463 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:04.839 like, shit, he would go mad. However, I can't get kicked 464 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.400 off this course. But that was one of the best things because that was 465 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.680 the incentive. Then I thought, right, there's no way I'm going to 466 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:15.279 leave this course before any of them guys. And I didn't, and has 467 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.400 got worse and worse. I remember pushing on and then watching a couple of 468 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:22.559 these guys leave, and before you know, the two hundred what started the 469 00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:27.200 course went down to you know, about just under forty, and that was 470 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.519 what was left going to the jungle. And then we went on the jungle 471 00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:31.920 phase. And I'd never been in the jungle before. And I remember this 472 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:36.559 sign guys saying, oh, we'll see how all these hats that's what they 473 00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:39.200 call the normal infantry. You're saying, I'll see how these guys go in 474 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:44.000 the jay and the jungle because he's been there before and so on, and 475 00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.759 I'm like, okay, anyway, when we get to the jungle again, 476 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:51.400 I wouldn't leave until you know, there's no way I'm going to leave this 477 00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.400 course until that guy at least, and these guys, a couple of them 478 00:32:54.440 --> 00:33:01.200 left. Eventually I saw him believe he just vw' voluntary withdrawal because at any 479 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.160 time you want, you just say I've had enough and just go to the 480 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.359 alicopter at the jungle and just wait and get the next helicopter out. And 481 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.240 I watched them go, and that was about two weeks in the jungle, 482 00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:14.519 and then I thought to myself, Wow, who forgot go for now? 483 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:17.519 This this my incentive. I'm like, shit, I've just got to carry 484 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.319 on now and get through this. But I did. I And the main 485 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:23.720 thing was, even though you've never been in the jungle before, you get 486 00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:29.400 taught everything. And that's all the selection processes, and that really is or 487 00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:32.200 what the Special Forces is for. Start at the beginning. They just want 488 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:36.079 you to do the basics properly and they teach your something. And so to 489 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:37.920 me, it was like, right, I'm doing exactly. They tell me 490 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.680 stay there, don't move. I'd stay there, don't move. They tell 491 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:45.119 me that's that and the other I would just do it to the to the 492 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.759 to the letter and just got through it. So yeah, I got through 493 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:52.039 the jungle stage. And this is most people say, this is where they 494 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:58.759 pick you because you watched there's a group of four of you and you sort 495 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.839 of watch twenty four seven. Then you know they'll the instructors will come with 496 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:07.400 night vision goggles or whatever, and they like to see. They like to 497 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:12.280 watch when no but when they don't think you're when you don't think anybody's around, 498 00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.519 they like to see what's going on in the background, see who's helping 499 00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:20.960 each other, make a model, se who's who's the d s DS watcher, 500 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.559 whose only works when like there the instructors around, and so on, 501 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:29.079 so they get to know the person really well. And you they've got you. 502 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:31.679 You can't you can't hide in that jungle, you know, and you 503 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:36.320 can't get out of it. So that's where you picked sort of anyway. 504 00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:38.840 But when you finish that, you go and that arguably, I'd say this 505 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:45.199 was the most difficult part that's going on to the their survival part and the 506 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:49.639 interrogation part where you go on the run, because let's face it, even 507 00:34:49.719 --> 00:34:54.320 even eels phase it if you were if you were really fit civilian and there 508 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:58.920 you're very good at navigation and you're very determined, you could get really through 509 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:02.880 the aptitude phase, the tapping over the mountains and hills, and you know, 510 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:06.920 getting through the jungles. Yeah, very very difficult, but maybe you 511 00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:08.599 could get for that. But how do you train your mind? How do 512 00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:14.199 you train yourself right for going on the run for so many days and nights 513 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.519 and then getting beasted for thirty six hours. You just don't go through that. 514 00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:22.559 And to me, that's where they push you to your Obviously they try 515 00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:25.079 to push your to your physical limits, but without injuring you. They don't 516 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:30.199 want people injured. But unfortunately on sometimes on courses, we've had people badly 517 00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:34.039 injured or the odd person die. It's part of partial but even though they 518 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.880 put all the safety measures, and it happens because you push that much physically 519 00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:40.800 and then mentally it's the same. They want push your to your breaking limits, 520 00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:45.039 but they got get an happy medium because they push you too far. 521 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.840 Then you know that's it. It's hard to fix your mind. And again 522 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:53.800 on this I remember seeing some officer and I thought to myself, he's really 523 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:59.360 intelligent. He remember everything they've told him, and but I couldn't believe it. 524 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.039 He left the court because he just started speaking and started writing things down 525 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:07.840 and everything, because everybody goes to that stage where they're completely tired and they're 526 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.960 illucinating, and you know what, it's like, the slip, declavation, 527 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:20.280 declaration. Yet yeah, I remember just watching this, this guy giving me 528 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.960 an interrogation and literally his EDG just turned into Mickey Mouse because you were you 529 00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:30.840 were hallucinating and like god, So to me, that was the most difficult 530 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.119 part. I thought, Wow, if this was at the beginning, i'd 531 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.440 be out of here. But you know, this was the last part of 532 00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:40.840 it and that was it. So I do believe it's a fantastic course. 533 00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:45.880 And I know your courses are very very very similar. Were run in the 534 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:49.239 same way, don't we. You do all these type of phases, go 535 00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.320 through the fitness phase, the mind game phase, and so on. But 536 00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:58.199 I do believe it does, it changes it and it gets They do iron 537 00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:00.920 out what's left of it, right, They put a bunch of people together 538 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:06.639 and what comes out it's something quite unique at the end because everybody's the same. 539 00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:09.519 Even though what David still and now we're found in Farth has said this 540 00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:14.679 was the SSC force and I only thought about it really once I got out 541 00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:17.480 in detail. It said every person who gets in the SAS they've got to 542 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:23.639 have this. They've got to have classlessness, humility, integrity, the shoot 543 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:28.199 of excellence and the sense of humor. And I thought to myself, that 544 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:32.800 is fantastic. You put them are five points together, and so classlessness that 545 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:39.039 means you can work with people from different backgrounds, different races, different religions, 546 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:44.679 different classes of society. You know, very rich people, pool people, 547 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:46.079 but they're all in the same group. They all got that common goal. 548 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:50.119 So you all get on. And if you've got this, not only 549 00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:52.000 in the special Forces, it's a bonus for the rest of your life, 550 00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:55.119 no matter what job you're in. You could be working in McDonald's, nothing 551 00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.280 problem with that. But if you can just go through that, ifos classlessness 552 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:05.079 and then humility, you know, nobody likes somebody who's just you've got to 553 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:07.679 You've got to be humble, you know, but you've got to be confident, 554 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:13.159 but not arrogant. You've got to be a normal person basically, and 555 00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.440 that's that's lie. And not everybody can get on with somebody, no matter 556 00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:22.440 what job. And then integrity. Nobody likes a liar. You prefer a 557 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:24.679 fifth and a liar. And as you know, you've got to roll jans 558 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:28.239 up. Yeah, we all make mistakes. You've got to admit it. 559 00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:31.239 If you, for instance, everybody wants to go on operations, but if 560 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.679 you were injured, you've got to and nobody people try and fake in. 561 00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:42.000 They'll do anything to you know, take all them painkillers or whatever. They 562 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.400 don't want that backstock because they won't get on that operation, but they've got 563 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:47.880 to hell they end up and say no. Or for instance, we've had 564 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:54.519 people on certain jobs pull out of the job and pull their team out because 565 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:59.559 they could have got compromise and that's a big no no. But really they 566 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.199 did the thing, but at the time it was looked on as bad. 567 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:06.239 You know, you've got you've got you've got to be honest, and integrity 568 00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.880 is massive and in any weird place. And then finally the last two is 569 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:12.920 pursuit of excellence. I always say, if you're going to be I remember 570 00:39:12.920 --> 00:39:15.519 saying to me, and I've kept the same if for us, if you're 571 00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:17.599 gonna be a tom, which is a private be a good tom So, 572 00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:21.079 even though I joined as a sergeant, you go down to a trooper and 573 00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:23.840 I found myself in the ses. You've been used to commanding phatic people. 574 00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:29.199 Next minute, I'm moading a pair of ladders and everybody's rooming up the building 575 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:30.679 and I'm the ladder. I'm the ladder older. That was my job, 576 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:34.599 but I made sure that he was the best ladder older. You had the 577 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:37.400 correct diet, you got there quicker and faster. You practiced on whether you're 578 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:39.840 doing it on a coach, on a building, on it. You know. 579 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.880 So no matter what job you're in, to shoot of excellence. If 580 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:46.480 you're going to be a cleaner, be the best cleaner because somebody will notice 581 00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:50.360 it in that line of work, and just pride in your job. If 582 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.920 you're gonna be a machine gunning and be the best machine gunner. And then 583 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.360 finally a sense of human Let's face it, you've gotta have a sense of 584 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.639 humor in life, and no matter what, and as you know, the 585 00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:02.920 military we've got it's a different type of Yeah. I think I think the 586 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:09.679 closest to us is emergency services and people like that fire dark human because yeah, 587 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:14.960 yeah, and you've got to haven't you, And and like in even 588 00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:21.360 in the most dangerous places, and or when unfortunately we've all lost good friends. 589 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.400 But it's the state. Yeah, you just start having a laugh about 590 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:29.519 all the things that went on with this guy and all the all the you 591 00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:31.000 know, mistakes he made, all the problems we had, and all laughed 592 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:34.760 together and you just sort of we call it taking the piss out of each 593 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.519 other and so on. It's that banter and Sevy Street. It's a it's 594 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:44.000 frowned upon a lot more. But and and the and and the army especially 595 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:47.559 test forces sense humors massive, So I do believe that ethos. It's just 596 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:52.760 it's fantastic. And in any career, so that's what comes out of selection, 597 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.880 they do look for all this, and especially when they're in the jungle 598 00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:00.239 part. So you get all these guys together and now is there was two 599 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:05.679 hundred started and then at the end there was six SS soldiers and then for 600 00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:08.559 SBS, so there's only ten of us. And and I remember looking at 601 00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:13.960 all the guys and there's only one guy totally bigger than me, and everybody 602 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.440 else is just normal, normal build or smaller and smaller. You know, 603 00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:22.360 you're like, wow, just just the normal, normal blokes get through it. 604 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:29.679 And yeah, so I do believe it's a it's a great selection process 605 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:36.119 that our militaries go through to produce a Special Forces soldier. So after you 606 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.360 go through selection, you complete your training, uh, you land in the 607 00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:44.760 squadron. Uh. I mean you mentioned a little bit about how you went 608 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.559 back down to essentially being like kind of a private in the sas, you 609 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:52.519 know, starting like starting over from as a junior guy. But can you 610 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.400 tell us a little bit about like the culture of the squadron, what it 611 00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:00.119 was like being in a team room with a bunch of like seasoned sas opera. 612 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:02.000 I mean, what was that experience like for you as a as a 613 00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:07.719 new new guy there? Oh god, it was. It was really unusual. 614 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:10.360 But first because you go in there and I remember getting introduced to this 615 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:14.880 aren't made it and you're calling him saying and it's like, no, my 616 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.280 name's he said his name, and you yeah, and every now and again 617 00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:21.159 your collings, no, don't don't, don't come me, sair, it's 618 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:22.920 none of that ship. And then I remember looking around the team room and 619 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.320 you think to yourself, you go and get there and everybody's going to be 620 00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:29.320 really fit. And then I'm looking at and there's all shapes and sizes. 621 00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:31.920 I'm like, wow, this just doesn't look like, you know, not 622 00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:37.159 my vision of a Special Forces guy. But what you what I soon found 623 00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.599 out is you've got guys who'd just come back from Northern Ireland where they've been 624 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:49.760 playing, not playing operational, but blending in with with the I already pretending 625 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:52.760 to be a civy and so on. So they make the make out like 626 00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.960 they like them and and and they're sitting in bars and all the rest of 627 00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:00.559 it. And people people would come from different posts, and yet all these 628 00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:04.760 guys they were still would carry all that kit and there were still you know, 629 00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:08.639 because there was no organized pt sessions. You just have to keep yourself 630 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:12.239 right and you could do the job. So all these guys they could do 631 00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:15.199 the job, but they were just all different shapes and sizes. And that 632 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.920 really shot me. And also what shot me was when I first got their 633 00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:22.239 yeurea about the squadrons. And you think, right, you got in the 634 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.400 normal military, got a command structure, you got the company. So many 635 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:32.079 platoons, patoon sergeants and so many commanders. We get there and literally in 636 00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:36.800 some groups there's only eight and instead of sixteen, and then another groups this 637 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:39.159 twelve. None of them are nobody was up to strength, and you could 638 00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:43.239 have so many sergeants and then just a couple of troopers, but the alders 639 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:50.639 got on. Everybody had a role, and also everybody had to say I 640 00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:54.199 remember being there, and straight away you be getting briefs for operations, and 641 00:43:54.239 --> 00:44:00.760 then the guys putting their words in, the officers talking about the plan and 642 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.159 so the blokes and then they go around the table and they ask, they're 643 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.280 asking me. I'm like wow, and they ask every single person, doesn't 644 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:09.519 matter if you've been there, the newest guy or the oldest guy, and 645 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:15.639 they take over people's opinions as well. But obviously the book stops with who's 646 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.760 ever in charge? But that's what was really pleasing to see. And then 647 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.880 the amount of responsibility. So you come out, you start as a trooper, 648 00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.440 but it's not that everybody's get on, you know, the bosses and 649 00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.920 so on, and then suddenly you get taken away. Okay, now you 650 00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:34.519 and you now you're going to go on this you're going to go on this 651 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:37.760 course. Next minute you're away doing forward air controlling. And then next and 652 00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:43.199 then you're away as an individual or just a pair of you, you've got 653 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:49.400 so much responsibility. You're charge of all this operational there where. Usually it's 654 00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.440 just to sit in office and the R A f or and the artillery, 655 00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:54.199 and that's just their main job. You just get sent there just for a 656 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.440 few weeks or a few months, do it, and a couple of other 657 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:00.960 guys will come and take over and so on, and then you find yourself. 658 00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:05.880 Actually I've had to pinch myself. I found myself like brief in the 659 00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:09.519 general and talking to a general and you know, he's pushing all these offices 660 00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:13.039 out of the way, and he come and he comes to where we were. 661 00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.320 This was in Bosnia, and he comes, Okay, what's your name? 662 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.239 Is speaking to him and it's like yeah, boss, and right, 663 00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.719 what do you think of it? And what's your opinion? And they would 664 00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:25.679 ask you, and you think yourself, God almighty, you got that much 665 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:32.000 responsibility. But what I find it's more strategic responsibility. Was whereas before it's 666 00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:37.000 just it's mainly tactical responsibility. You and your troops on the ground. This 667 00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:39.280 was what you say and do it? Can it can go all the way 668 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:46.239 up to a very very eye standard. So yeah, I really enjoyed it. 669 00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:50.960 It was just it was just something totally different. But what I always 670 00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:55.159 remember is as soon as we've passed, we've got we've got a clock tower 671 00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:01.559 and it's it's famous within area fed in sating in the camp and it's known 672 00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:05.199 as you've got to beat the clock because since the Second World War or I 673 00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.920 think there's only been one year, there's never been a name on that clock. 674 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:09.639 And to get your name on the clock, you don't want your name 675 00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:14.639 on the clock because you've got to die, either on operations or within training. 676 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.119 And as soon as we got a berries, there was no big parade. 677 00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:20.920 It was just like Chucky Berry right down. You were going to the 678 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:23.840 squadron, such and such a to the squadron and the officer who passed it 679 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:29.639 out, I remember him saying, listen, enjoy it. It'll be over 680 00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:32.440 and an artbeat, and then he said, and also make sure you beat 681 00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:36.880 the clock. And I didn't. I didn't know what that meant. What's 682 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:39.599 all this? But then over the years when you go back and you see 683 00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:43.440 that clock, and then you know you know all your mates, you've got 684 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:45.599 that many different people you know on the clock and it's just like wow, 685 00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:51.119 what and then where did them twelve years go? You've had twelve years have 686 00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:52.920 been in because out of the twelve years I did and the s yes, 687 00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:57.039 I had ten of them years was just at the point of the in the 688 00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:59.800 Saber squadron, you know, at the point of the spear, because you 689 00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:02.920 have or SS squadrons, you have ab D and G and they will do 690 00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:07.519 the same thing. They just rotate round, you know, going on operations, 691 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.679 going on counter terrorists and doing training and so on. But as you 692 00:47:09.719 --> 00:47:15.280 guys know, straight after as soon as nine to eleven happened, that was 693 00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:19.719 it. Instead of having like one group on operations, one group training, 694 00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:25.159 one group on counter terrorism, so and you had a sort of a rotation. 695 00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:29.960 Then that store went out the winter because operations are number one. So 696 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:35.400 sometimes they'd be the entire all the three squadrons were in operations and you don't 697 00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.679 no matter what, there'd always be one squadron. Would they have to stay 698 00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:43.360 in the UK because they just counter terrorists squadrons in case, you know, 699 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:49.719 a big terrorist stintn't happened and the police couldn't take it on, something like 700 00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:54.079 a plane being hijacked or something like the London I mean, the Embassy is 701 00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:59.760 getting taken on. So sometimes it was like obviously training and leave go out 702 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:04.119 there just operations, operations, operations. But I enjoyed that, I really 703 00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:07.880 did, so I found myself as soon as I got there. I was 704 00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:10.679 well. One of the first things I was doing was carrying a coffin of 705 00:48:10.719 --> 00:48:15.159 somebody who died from the squadron. I didn't know him, but it died 706 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:19.119 and he only came in. He was on the selection before me. I 707 00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.480 didn't know him, but I found myself as part of the coffin bearing team 708 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:24.000 because the lads, most of lads can't get back for the funeral, and 709 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:29.199 like wow, and that just showed me how fair and fast it was. 710 00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:34.320 And nobody knew about this obviously because it's like secretive operations, what were going 711 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:38.920 on and so on. It was just there. How can I say it 712 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:46.519 was something that was just went went so fast and at times so enjoyed. 713 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:51.920 But as you know, you don't have time really think about it until you 714 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.599 leave the military. Yeah, and so on. But even mere, I 715 00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:59.239 was very very lucky. I think because over it's been over forty years, 716 00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:04.519 have either been in British military in the Special Forces, or training in small 717 00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.599 teams with special Forces guys, or training special forces foreign special forces. So 718 00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:15.320 I've always been in that type of community. So I had a nice transition 719 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:22.400 of going from once I got out eventually doing training for foreign special Forces, 720 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:25.599 which was great because you're just the training them and you're playing with weapons every 721 00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:31.159 day. You work with like minded people from the American Special Forces and Australian's 722 00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:34.599 Best Force and brit Special Force, and we all gone on and we are 723 00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:39.039 team. And because talking to that, I find the Brits and the Americans, 724 00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:43.800 we've we've just got that common bond. I remember going over to yours. 725 00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:46.800 The first time I ever worked with the Americans was nineteen eighty four as 726 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:52.320 a from an infantry unit. We went over to Fort Lewis and Washington and 727 00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:55.440 it was the Airborne Rangers and god, I loved that place and we ended 728 00:49:55.480 --> 00:50:04.440 up going there. Where was it to Lake Tahoe, tom Well down in 729 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:09.400 Nevadavad? Yeah, I went there. That's a different time. Coma, 730 00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:15.000 Yeah, Coma, And I remember going on to that camp and I'm thinking 731 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:19.800 ship because some some we have like garrison places which were a bit bigger, 732 00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.960 but a lot of times it's just a battalion base which is only eight hundred 733 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:27.000 people, and then you've got just cities around you. Your camp that fought 734 00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:29.840 Lewis. I'm like, God, there's like a city. And it was 735 00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:32.679 just so different than the British military camp and the food and everything else. 736 00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:37.840 It was just and I loved the training there apart from where did we go 737 00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:40.960 Yackamore and it was winter survival God or might it was cold, but we 738 00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:45.360 went to Crystal Mountain and did Scared and that. So that was my first 739 00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:52.760 look at the working and being involved with the US and I loved it. 740 00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:57.760 And then since then we also when we was back Gym used to go down 741 00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:00.480 to the p X and stuff like that, and even we should training in 742 00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:02.360 Canada, but the guys we was rut on the Canadian border go down to 743 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:07.079 Montana because we loved it. And then in the first Gulf again we did 744 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:10.519 a lot of cross training and then went to go on to Special Forces. 745 00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:15.199 One of the first things I remember the team what was involved in black Hawk 746 00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:19.519 Down. They came across and give us briefs because we always have cross briefs 747 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:22.199 together where you guys are other Special Forces units come across, and I think 748 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:27.039 we go across to yours and we give each other briefs and help each other 749 00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:30.719 out. So then guys came and that was really interesting. Then I found 750 00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:35.559 myself going over to Fort Bragg and again that were a place and massive and 751 00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:38.119 working with the Delta guys and who's the guys who was on some of the 752 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:42.239 guys who came and give us us brief they were doing these courses for us 753 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:47.039 because we liked that, the poor smaller brothers. You know, you've got 754 00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:52.800 such great real estate and facilities. Then we'd come across. For instance, 755 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.320 when we practice of blowing aircraft doors, we put wood up there and we've 756 00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:01.400 got a metal aircraft after and and we just blowing the wooden doors off. 757 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:07.760 Come across to you guys and be blowing proper aircraft doors off and not just 758 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:09.840 one, two, three a day, and it's like wow, and you 759 00:52:09.880 --> 00:52:13.960 know you've got all the facilities. So that that was really good. And 760 00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:19.119 also apart from working and doing brag and we do a lot of cross training 761 00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.920 a lot your guys will come over to ours, but also worked and that's 762 00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:29.039 where I got to comba not to come the tar because we had. We 763 00:52:29.079 --> 00:52:30.519 had a long weekend. We went to the Varda just two hours. They 764 00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:35.760 sent us two hours doing some are controlling and it was with the Seals and 765 00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:39.119 God almighty Europe. I remember doing forward air controlling in the UK. We've 766 00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:43.880 only got certain real estate where you can drop live and you can only do 767 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:46.119 certain runs. So he gets a bit boring. You go to America, 768 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:52.000 you've got that desert. God, I remember we have like got there. 769 00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:55.719 They had a built up area and they had two twenty five millimeter howitzers what 770 00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:59.880 with fire white FoST for us and you could use them to mark targets. 771 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.760 They'd have guys with stinger missiles so they could be you know, target the 772 00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:10.280 aircraft. You'd have what remote control tanks and they dropped chalk bombs on it 773 00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:15.760 and they'd make a bolts of wood village and then you'd bomb the fuck out 774 00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:19.000 of it. Sorry swearing. And then next day you come back, you 775 00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:23.400 built a new one. It's like this is facilities were amazing. So yeah, 776 00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:27.079 it's great. And then once I left the Special Force, it's the 777 00:53:27.159 --> 00:53:32.320 very first finger dead was go out working first American news screws cruise with CBS 778 00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:37.559 News. So with American teams, but it was like we're working with American 779 00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:42.280 media, but it was just all a small team of four Special Forces guys. 780 00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:45.639 So basically I got out after at the end of two thousand and five, 781 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:47.320 and it was in Baghdad. But when all that foul and you know, 782 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:52.679 went across to the Second Gulf War, went in the desert feirst of 783 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:57.840 all and then into Baghdad, and I remember then say and rotations that are 784 00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:00.320 this place, it's a nightmare. Never be back here again. Len't be 785 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:04.760 old. Eighteen months have to get you. I mean it was once out 786 00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:07.039 the very first job. I was out in Baghdad, the exact places you 787 00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:10.559 were there before, but instead of being on the offensive where you know it's 788 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:14.480 dangerous, but at the end you're gonna have all the backup, you're gonna 789 00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:17.320 have the medical support and everything. You're on the defensive. You're just getting 790 00:54:17.360 --> 00:54:21.199 in there, doing the filming and getting out, but you're still armed and 791 00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:23.559 everything, because you try to blend him with the news crew. So you'd 792 00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:29.119 have your weapon and say a tripod bag and obviously your pistol down your pants 793 00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:30.519 and your job is to protect in the news. But some of them, 794 00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:35.800 some of the instance, what happened there. I could go on all night 795 00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:37.639 about it and how dangerous that was. I'll get I'll get into that, 796 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:42.000 Melvin. I'd love to hear some of those stories, but I would like 797 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:45.800 to hear about the two thousand and three invasion, the second invasion of Iraq, 798 00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:51.639 and what your experiences were like there with the sas, if you can 799 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:55.119 tell us a bit about that. Yeah, Well, what I always remember 800 00:54:55.320 --> 00:55:01.360 is going back to that the first go war. I remember that people we 801 00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:05.480 were saying, oh, they'd be special forces behind their guiding them, bombs 802 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.239 on and so on, and they're like, God, I wanted that one 803 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:12.440 day. And then don't be old. It was the Second Iraq War and 804 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:15.440 we were building up for it while before we knew it was going to happen. 805 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:20.280 Wasn't when, I mean if it was just when, but we just 806 00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:22.880 beat up for it was such a long time, and we had certain squadrons, 807 00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:27.199 you know, certain squadrons were just their main jobs was just Afghanistan, 808 00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:30.760 and certain squadrons were just going to be Iraq, and so we had a 809 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:32.719 good build up for it. So by the time we got off across there, 810 00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:37.760 it was it was to me, it was It was a great finale 811 00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:43.000 because the original Special Forces with David Staling was, as you know, in 812 00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.159 the in the Desert's in the Second World War, were going out behind enemy 813 00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:50.199 lines and doing all the raids and creating AVIC and basically that's what we were 814 00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:54.079 dead. We went behind enemy lines, dropped off and got to know all 815 00:55:54.679 --> 00:56:01.320 locations and then just created AVOC and had all the proper Special Forces stuff, 816 00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:06.960 so and bushes and raids. It was fantastic. So we did that and 817 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.519 then our squadron we got pulled out of there because we're told, right, 818 00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:15.519 okay, back Dad's falling, So then we pulled out and went straight into 819 00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:20.559 Bagdad. So we had like a fair bit of time doing full on combat 820 00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:24.480 and but out in the desert rural, and then suddenly it was convenasion and 821 00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:30.440 you were doing now urban. Yeah, and this was like not just you 822 00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:31.840 know, I've done open before, but that was more under covered type of 823 00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:35.960 stuff. And we've done stuff in Bosnia and so on, but this was 824 00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.199 something else because it's just literally as back Dad had just fallen, and it 825 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:45.639 was like we got attached to these well it was the marine and Marine unit, 826 00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:47.800 but we was just doing an fingered had that deck of cards, that 827 00:56:47.880 --> 00:56:52.199 pack of fifty two, and it was a case of right, we get 828 00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.639 we're going to get big, getting theirs. And sometimes you just have somebody 829 00:56:54.639 --> 00:57:00.119 coming in or they pass on to the military they think they know where and 830 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.840 shutches or such as such, a general with somebody from the back pot and 831 00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:07.440 it was like, right, okay, roll up and let's go get them. 832 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.639 So we jump in your armor and the bradley is your guys, the 833 00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:15.960 units with they provide the outer according and then we'd go in and do the 834 00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:21.440 CQB because obviously we're specialized in that a lot with on the counter terrorist team, 835 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:23.519 so that was like a speciality of ours, but it wasn't one. 836 00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:27.800 Sometimes you're doing two three a day because you just have to go off here. 837 00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.519 Say so, you didn't have time to do all the plannings before. 838 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.239 We've been on jobs where you've had a lot of time to plan and you've 839 00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:37.320 been an area faed and then flash the bang, you've gone away done something. 840 00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.519 In the back and forth eight hours, there's been a lot of planning, 841 00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:44.679 a lot of the reports and a lot of intelligence on the target you're 842 00:57:44.679 --> 00:57:51.440 going to the apprehend and so on. So it's used like that. This 843 00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:54.079 wasn't any of that. It was a case of a quick set of qbos, 844 00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:58.280 quick battle orders, and sometimes we were just running getting broke up, 845 00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:01.239 Okay, rolling right, I get my team together and you just blah blah 846 00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:05.199 blah and know where you go, and you're shouting out what you're going to 847 00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:07.519 be doing in the back of the noisy Bradley because it was that you know, 848 00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.360 quick of the jobs because you had to go. If somebody come up 849 00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:14.480 to the gate, they think they know where such and such is then a 850 00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:16.239 where you go. And obviously a lot of times you get there and they 851 00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:21.920 be the wrong place, or nobody's there, or they've just left. But 852 00:58:21.960 --> 00:58:23.719 then other times we did get a few of them, and then the other 853 00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:28.519 times they was what the remainders who was there, just their bodyguards and that. 854 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:30.920 So you just didn't know what to expect every time you went in there. 855 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:36.519 So it was to me it was a great sort of finale near the 856 00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:42.840 end of my career because you had the full on rural side of it, 857 00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:45.320 being behind enemy lines and doing that in the desert, and then going on 858 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.559 and having all the urban side of it. So yeah, that was fantastic. 859 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:52.559 And then as I said, once I got out, I found myself 860 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:57.280 straight back in Bagdad, but this time on the defensive lot more dangerous as 861 00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:00.800 well. During during their period of time in two thousand and three, were 862 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:04.920 there any particular like missions that kind of stood out in your mind? Is 863 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:08.920 like this was really significant or whatever it was that kind of is prominent in 864 00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:13.960 your in your mind even today. Oh yeah, there was a fair few 865 00:59:14.239 --> 00:59:17.400 missions, and it was especially well in both parts on the rural side when 866 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:23.760 we was out in the desert, because sometimes we literally went and did a 867 00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:29.400 reconnaissance to this area where we was going to call in some air on a 868 00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:34.639 certain objective. One night and we went through the the check of the area, 869 00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:37.960 just you know, so many vehicles just rolled in there with all the 870 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:44.159 mvgs, and it's just I remember thinking, I'm so tired and that I'm 871 00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:46.239 seeing things. And I thought I was seeing things moving on the ground. 872 00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:50.480 I thought, what's that. It looks it must be rabbits or something. 873 00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:52.840 Because we was driving along, but we actually got on the road. That's 874 00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:57.360 how cocky we were in out full of ourselves and we're just going along this 875 00:59:57.639 --> 01:00:00.719 road and either side, I thought I'm you who have seen something on the 876 01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:06.760 ground, and I was just I never said anything, and but the driver 877 01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:09.599 and the gunner at the time, they were saying when we spoke about it 878 01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:13.760 after they sort of things anyway, what it was. We went check this 879 01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:17.840 area out. Then next day we moved back to do the task what was 880 01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:22.400 meant to be doing, like calling in air and no kidding you, when 881 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:24.719 the air came, it was just bonkers. We were just in a massive 882 01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:29.920 area. We was in the middle of a full on position. So these 883 01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:32.559 and I found I'll tell you the story. So we got out of this 884 01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:37.760 position, like what the hell was that? And next day we get the 885 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:42.840 report from the predators that went over because we should both ride the fire over, 886 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.760 but the US so your your guys were using it and obviously it was 887 01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:52.360 your your your your resources. So then we sort of went and blind to 888 01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:55.480 where we went on target. And then next day they came and we got 889 01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:59.519 the full on report. One of the guys they was doing the extra office 890 01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:06.159 on the ad his laptop and in the back and basically they could see everything 891 01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:09.440 and we was inside a massive, massive position. So either side of the 892 01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:14.559 road they could even show like four man fire trenches. So what I thought 893 01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.639 was moving and what was on the ground was it was actually Iraqi's heads popping 894 01:01:17.679 --> 01:01:22.519 up and then popping back down, you know, because yeah, we were 895 01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:27.159 just and because they didn't know who we were, right, I think, 896 01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:30.440 and they were real restaurants when we were trying to get out of it after 897 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:36.280 we called them, because what happened was they actually all the anti aircraft weapons 898 01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:38.719 they started turning and firing on us as well, So like, what the 899 01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:42.440 hell we thought was getting mortared? And then we get back on this road 900 01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:45.840 to get out of it, but then we saw tracer coming across not you 901 01:01:45.880 --> 01:01:51.039 know, from the sides of us, and then you saw stuff coming over 902 01:01:51.039 --> 01:01:52.599 your head and landing in front of your exploding. You think, shit, 903 01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:55.000 I've got to get through that. You're like, what the hell was that 904 01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:59.960 what we went through? And then when we saw on the map where we 905 01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:01.679 where, you think how they out did we get out of there? It 906 01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:06.000 was just amazing. But then the next day the centers back in the different 907 01:02:06.039 --> 01:02:09.719 area and do the same again or so, yeah, there was some full 908 01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:15.960 on, full on contacts there. And again it's just by luck that you 909 01:02:16.039 --> 01:02:21.039 get out of these these task and I'd say, look, but it's also 910 01:02:21.079 --> 01:02:23.880 good drills because everybody knows exactly what they're doing and moving and so on. 911 01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:30.239 But yeah, as for being overpowered, we was, you know, definitely 912 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:34.719 a small fish in a big sea. And then yeah, there was many 913 01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:40.360 jobs them once we went on inside the city itself. And obviously I'm not 914 01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:44.360 allowed to say who we got, but we got some big targets and we 915 01:02:44.440 --> 01:02:49.559 missed some targets just by you know, literally minutes and twenty minutes you reckon, 916 01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.800 we could have got some biggings. But yeah, some some full on 917 01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:57.039 jobs there. How was it for you working with you know, whether they 918 01:02:57.039 --> 01:03:00.760 were active or National Guard, the armor un it's they were there to provide 919 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:05.960 you, guys, cordon and support and things like that. Was that a 920 01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:08.079 learning process for you guys? Or is it is it something that you had 921 01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:13.320 already been trained up on? No, we're telling true. If I found 922 01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:17.480 myself, I havn't been years ago in the armored Mechanized unit, armored infantry 923 01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:27.320 unit. You know, I organized, I knew the the tactics of armor. 924 01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:30.199 I've worked with armored before, but in special Forces we don't. We'd 925 01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:34.440 never work with armored before. So there was a better learning care. But 926 01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:40.159 we they went out their way to facilitate it, and yeah, it was. 927 01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:44.960 It worked very very well. I mustn't that, you know. Yeah, 928 01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:47.960 working with the US, not just US special Forces. We worked with 929 01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:54.000 the US it was the Marines and then also with their army, you know. 930 01:03:54.119 --> 01:03:59.000 Yeah, but every every unit worked with just so facilitating its brilliant. 931 01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:03.360 We really got one. Yeah. And then after the invasion of Iraq, 932 01:04:03.880 --> 01:04:08.760 you went to a special wing of the SAS in two thousand and four, 933 01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:12.159 Yeah, I went. I went to a special wing. It was at 934 01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:15.920 the time it was called the PW which is forced projection wing. Changed the 935 01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.960 name of it now, and that was like a specialist wing within the SAS. 936 01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:23.000 So I went to that and that was just and then after that, 937 01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:26.679 I really that was when I was getting out and I decided to get out. 938 01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:29.519 I didn't the time I've done, you know, my full career, 939 01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:31.400 and I thought to myself, right, do I stay in now? Do 940 01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:35.519 get out? Added a make get out and then he said, right, 941 01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:41.920 come on this job working with the news, which was great because I said 942 01:04:41.960 --> 01:04:45.760 to my wife at the time one was mcgilfriend. I said, right, 943 01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:49.639 listen, you've been used to me being away for months at a time and 944 01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:55.079 being away in dangerous areas. Now I'm going to carry on going away and 945 01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:59.079 it's a dangerous area obviously looking after the press and Baghdad when it was really 946 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:03.199 dangerous then just a small team, and I says, however, we're getting 947 01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:08.519 money for it this time. But the difference was if something would have happened, 948 01:05:08.679 --> 01:05:11.639 like a couple of years before, and he was over there fighting for 949 01:05:11.639 --> 01:05:15.239 a country, would have been a case of right sas guy dies an hero. 950 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:18.039 He died in Iraq, But then if anything happened to you there, 951 01:05:18.199 --> 01:05:21.400 it'll be okay, here's a mercenary. He didn't even have to be out 952 01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:26.559 there. He's just after money. But people don't realize you're still you still 953 01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:30.119 got to look after your families. And that's what that was like what people 954 01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:32.400 were doing. The majority guys, let's face it, they go out and 955 01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:35.599 we call it the sake it. They go on and start jumping on the 956 01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:42.599 PSD teams and getting on these like military type contracts and looking at doing PSD 957 01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:47.000 and and as you know, when it starts, when at the beginning, 958 01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:49.559 there's big money in that, and let's face it, you've still got to 959 01:05:49.559 --> 01:05:54.440 look after your family and everything. So and plus I was just working with 960 01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:57.719 all the squadron guys, not only SDS guys, but they're all x D 961 01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:00.440 squadron, So I was working with for four guys and we all new and 962 01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:02.760 all mate, and we just rotate. So for ten months a year, 963 01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:08.320 I was bad Dad looking after the news. But I got on really well 964 01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:12.320 with obviously all the news crew. And then you did actually, so you 965 01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:15.880 had time tojus and see the different side what the Iraqis were doing, because 966 01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:19.679 I worked with Iraqis all the time as well, and you realize that then 967 01:06:20.079 --> 01:06:26.000 as it went on the devastation, what we caause and how they really wanted 968 01:06:26.079 --> 01:06:29.000 us there. But then later on they were they were over the years, 969 01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.440 because I had four years there. They were saying, at least with Sadam, 970 01:06:31.719 --> 01:06:34.559 we knew he was a terrible dictator and they hated him, and some 971 01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:39.320 of them my dad family killed, but they said, hav him back there 972 01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:42.400 now, instead of at least they could get the kids to school, they 973 01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:45.719 could go to a market without it getting blown up and so on. And 974 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:49.599 it was it was really it was. I found that quite difficult periods as 975 01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:53.840 well, because you were just working with a small man formed man group, 976 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:58.400 but also all the American news teams what used to rotate through. You got 977 01:06:58.400 --> 01:07:02.760 to know them really well. Unfortunately, we lost you know, good friends 978 01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:06.360 out there. We dropped them off on and in bed with the American military 979 01:07:06.360 --> 01:07:10.320 and they went on in bed and there was a big car bomb there and 980 01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:15.920 had two good friends killed outright, and then one of the main correspondents she 981 01:07:16.039 --> 01:07:19.559 was badly injured. And then we had a few racky friends who we got 982 01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:24.000 to know over the years. They bring you treats when they had a baby 983 01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:26.599 from their family, but most of the time they spent in the hotel with 984 01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:31.079 you because obviously it was a danger for them to be back home. And 985 01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:33.719 when they did go back home, nobody knew who they were working with. 986 01:07:33.760 --> 01:07:36.880 But sometimes it got the way got out, they got followed. So we 987 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:43.519 had a couple of them over the years got kidnapped, then killed, tortured 988 01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:46.320 and killed, and you knew these people. So it was like God Almighty 989 01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:51.800 that that was quite intense. But then after that I finished that after about 990 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:54.880 four years, and I'm like, right, because we had a four year 991 01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:58.039 planning. My wife I said, now I'm going to go to just go 992 01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:01.039 on and almost take it and sort of just do normal celeb work and bits 993 01:08:01.079 --> 01:08:03.920 of the ship security. So I did that just for a few months, 994 01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:08.679 but then I got a great job. We were working with the Special Forces 995 01:08:08.679 --> 01:08:14.000 training special forces out in the United Arab Emirates. So I was working out 996 01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:20.039 there with light minded people guys a lot of it, and the all the 997 01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:26.159 all the American Special Forces guys and yeah, we're just training them. So 998 01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:31.319 that was a really great transition. So I did that for the well something 999 01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:35.279 like eleven years so by the time and then I finished that. And once 1000 01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:43.319 I finished that, I just I then started doing stuff like a bit of 1001 01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:47.640 bodyguarding over there, looking after billionaires. I even looked after JC and Beyonce 1002 01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:51.760 when they did the big comeback concert and d Bye. That was brilliant, 1003 01:08:51.800 --> 01:08:55.760 you know, just because I obviously knew the Bye, so I was like 1004 01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:59.600 they had their own team come over obviously, but he was, you know, 1005 01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:01.479 the doors away from and he was really all around them. So that 1006 01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:06.239 was that was great. And then I went to Turkey again with the news 1007 01:09:06.279 --> 01:09:12.880 cruise just as the earthquake happened, like this time that no a year February 1008 01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:17.399 gone and we was actually there when one of the second earthquake happened, and 1009 01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:20.479 that was an eye opener as well, and you saw, you know, 1010 01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:25.600 all the humanitarian problems what was going on. And then since then, since 1011 01:09:25.600 --> 01:09:30.239 i've been back UK, I've been doing a lot of charity work for veterans, 1012 01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:34.359 especially homeless veterans, because there's that many homeless now in my own city 1013 01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:40.079 and around the UK. So I've been doing charity work, but also a 1014 01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:43.319 lot of publics and now I'm starting to do public speaking. And I've also 1015 01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:46.520 went to Ukraine as well on a humanitarian aid charity event as well, because 1016 01:09:46.520 --> 01:09:50.960 I'm a big believer that we should be back in Ukraine because they're fighting on 1017 01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:55.159 our bay off. So you know, I'm keeping myself busy. Now I'm 1018 01:09:55.159 --> 01:10:00.720 going to start doing a lot of public events and talk because what we don't 1019 01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:05.720 realize and you keep shy about, is, yeah, it's forty years have 1020 01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:10.439 either been in a military or special forces or you know, you've had all 1021 01:10:10.479 --> 01:10:14.399 that, but with that comes an awful lot of experience, and not just 1022 01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:17.279 military experience. We've got life experience, haven't we We've got an awful lot 1023 01:10:17.319 --> 01:10:28.560 of life experience and were solves and emergency workers we've gone through it, white's 1024 01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:31.079 a lot more than a lot a lot of people, and so I think 1025 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:35.800 if we can show people how to being a lot more resilient, because let's 1026 01:10:35.800 --> 01:10:41.760 facically we've all gone from social issues, we've all gone through emotional issues, 1027 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:47.119 financial issues, psychological issues, physical issues, and the idea is you're just 1028 01:10:47.479 --> 01:10:51.359 it's like a military sort course, you're going to problem when everything's going all 1029 01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:55.600 right, bang, something else to happen, and it just be resilient. 1030 01:10:55.680 --> 01:11:00.359 So I do believe with people with our sort of back ground can pass this 1031 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:05.239 on, put on our knowledge and actually out not only for other veterans or 1032 01:11:05.319 --> 01:11:12.239 other the civilians going through all this, especially now in the UK there's a 1033 01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:16.640 cost living crisis and there's a lot of the better fighting. It seems to 1034 01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:20.000 be going backwards. To me, it's like going back to the nineteen eighties. 1035 01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:24.840 It's as if it's as if the governments want in fighting. They don't 1036 01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:27.920 want people to look up where the problem is. They just want people fight 1037 01:11:27.960 --> 01:11:30.560 against each other and they're causing all the problems. And it's so I just 1038 01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:35.760 want to do you know, I bet play my part and if I can 1039 01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:41.920 help, I will help. But also I'm also just going to be writing 1040 01:11:41.920 --> 01:11:45.520 a book as well, because every subject I've touched on this are not this 1041 01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:49.119 is just quickly going through it, but there's a massive there's a massive part 1042 01:11:49.119 --> 01:11:53.119 of that. I could just talk about one two duty in Northern Ireland the 1043 01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:56.720 first one. I could talk about that for about you know, or five 1044 01:11:56.760 --> 01:12:00.399 hours, and now you just just to tell you how confusing that that was 1045 01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:08.000 and so on, because even I know while there, and I've speaking to 1046 01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:12.119 other Americans, they see something like Northern Ireland definitely than we see it as 1047 01:12:12.119 --> 01:12:15.039 a brit soldier. You're over there and it's part of Great Britain, it's 1048 01:12:15.119 --> 01:12:19.359 part of your Northern Irelanders, it's part of the UK. And you know, 1049 01:12:19.399 --> 01:12:25.079 I know, I whatever the politics are and everything, that's that. 1050 01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:30.680 But you were there to protect all sides, Catholic and Protestant. You're there 1051 01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:33.520 to protect people. But I remember going there in the early eighties. I 1052 01:12:33.520 --> 01:12:40.199 remember the Catholics at the time they do you can't see a Catholic area was 1053 01:12:40.279 --> 01:12:43.640 more run down. They did seem to have the worst end of the sticks, 1054 01:12:43.640 --> 01:12:48.800 so to speak. And then it was just human nature. You got 1055 01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:54.680 on more with the Protestant side because they liked. They all liked their military, 1056 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:58.520 whereas mainly the Catholic side didn't like the military, not all of them, 1057 01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:02.439 but obviously it's more percentage and that. And I remember at the time 1058 01:13:02.520 --> 01:13:06.000 that they're saying to me, why you sold your boy? And they say 1059 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:10.760 that to everyone, but they stopped me a few times in particularly and especially 1060 01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:13.359 because of being black. They're saying, why are you here, because at 1061 01:13:13.359 --> 01:13:15.479 the time in the UK there's a lot of riots going on there saying they 1062 01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:18.840 don't even want you. You were you were, you were the suppressed in 1063 01:13:18.880 --> 01:13:21.960 the UK. People don't want you in that country. And you go right, 1064 01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.119 and this was the Catholics saying to me, and we're the same, 1065 01:13:25.159 --> 01:13:27.920 We're we're the suppressed. We just want fair rights and so on. And 1066 01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.520 so we've got your thinking. You're like, god, I'm trying to do 1067 01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:32.680 the job, and you know, you're you're a nineteen year old and you 1068 01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:39.239 just want to look after everyone. So that was such a confusing place. 1069 01:13:39.680 --> 01:13:44.079 And then even going back the second time in fair time, even though you've 1070 01:13:44.079 --> 01:13:47.960 got command, you've got command responsibility to it's still we're very very confusing, 1071 01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:55.319 and I think it's confused everybody. Yeah, even that political part. I'm 1072 01:13:55.399 --> 01:14:01.239 curious about your take on the whole resiliency issue because it's obvious that you know, 1073 01:14:02.199 --> 01:14:08.680 the military and the special operations courses that they test you for resiliency. 1074 01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:13.520 Do you think so it's not that they necessarily train you to be resilient, 1075 01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:18.439 but there are selection courses find the people who already are resilient or predisposed to 1076 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:21.319 it. Do you feel that there are lessons and if so, what are 1077 01:14:21.359 --> 01:14:29.560 those lessons that where you can take that and teach people how to be resilient. 1078 01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:34.199 I do last lessons, you know, I always say they'll want to 1079 01:14:34.199 --> 01:14:38.359 have. It's me saying and I remember saying it, like you grow through 1080 01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:42.159 what you go through. Everything I say these are positive and everything. Even 1081 01:14:42.920 --> 01:14:45.239 I will never have a moan about Okay, yeah I got bullied, I 1082 01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:49.359 didn't get this job or something happened. Yeah, we have had a little 1083 01:14:49.399 --> 01:14:54.159 problems. But to me, like I said, getting bullied, that made 1084 01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:57.800 me definitely made me more resilient because you have to do, you havet to 1085 01:14:59.319 --> 01:15:01.079 what you do. You've got to face up to a bully, and that 1086 01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:06.479 made me now always say right, yeah, for instance, it's like a 1087 01:15:06.520 --> 01:15:10.800 storm, a sandstorm, saying good bye. You can't outrun it. You're 1088 01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:14.439 better off just standing and just going through it the opposite way. And as 1089 01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:16.439 soon as you get through it, that's it. You're over and done. 1090 01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:18.920 If you try out running, you're just going to weigh yourself down. Eventually 1091 01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:23.640 it's going to get catch up. You can't. You can't outrun problems, 1092 01:15:23.880 --> 01:15:27.279 and they're always going to be there. You've just got to face and let's 1093 01:15:27.319 --> 01:15:31.479 face it, there is that many veterans have gone through all these life problems. 1094 01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:35.520 So not only you're doing a dangerous job and you're you're we're going through 1095 01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:40.359 all that type of emotions, which it doesn't it until years later, let's 1096 01:15:40.399 --> 01:15:44.000 face it a lot of times, but then you've just got normal life problems. 1097 01:15:44.039 --> 01:15:46.640 You know. I went through emotional problems, a better, divorced at 1098 01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:51.640 a young age, and then having after that kid a kid involved and you 1099 01:15:51.880 --> 01:15:57.239 and then still trying to do your job and then so and then also went 1100 01:15:57.279 --> 01:16:00.840 through financial problems. Then I went through before I remember starting the military career 1101 01:16:00.920 --> 01:16:04.039 and remember my dad at sixteen, give me a few pounds, so I 1102 01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:09.079 started. You jump in the military. During it, you've got a bed 1103 01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.760 block and itally blankets as you know, and there you are. You're just 1104 01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:15.439 a number. But I added a couple of pound roll on. Sixteen years 1105 01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.680 later, I've gone through a bitter divorce. I'm a corporal. Yeah, 1106 01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:24.239 I'm fifty pounds in debt because of because of things what went on. It 1107 01:16:24.399 --> 01:16:27.880 wasn't my problem. So not only emotional problems. You're trying to sort out 1108 01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:31.000 financial problems. But it's hard. It's life is hard, isn't it. 1109 01:16:31.079 --> 01:16:35.319 And it's you've got to choose the hardness. You tie the savings odd, 1110 01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:41.279 let's face it, but getting in debts odd, but you have to just 1111 01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:45.359 like that. I dug it. I nearly went the other way, for 1112 01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:48.840 instance, because I remember now I'm thirty two, gone through sixteen years later, 1113 01:16:49.159 --> 01:16:55.039 I'm rolling in into a base and I was like, shit, I 1114 01:16:55.079 --> 01:16:57.039 haven't got a bed block, but I just got you know, I've got 1115 01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:00.039 a quilt. I've got my own little room, and you've got all the 1116 01:17:00.079 --> 01:17:02.439 lads were single and that living in the room or someone I mean in the 1117 01:17:02.600 --> 01:17:08.479 in the building. Someone divorced. I'm like, shit, I am now 1118 01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:12.439 like I was at sixteen, But at least then I had a few quidam 1119 01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:16.039 of pockets Whereas now I've got fifty grand a debt, and I've got still 1120 01:17:16.119 --> 01:17:19.520 going on back home, and I've still got this military career to get on 1121 01:17:19.600 --> 01:17:23.199 with, and all your mates want to do is just take you out and 1122 01:17:23.199 --> 01:17:26.279 get your pissed. Yeah you know what I mean, and forget the world. 1123 01:17:26.640 --> 01:17:30.640 And you can. You can't get into that when you get the time, 1124 01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:32.159 obviously, because you're way busy, But when you aren't, That's why 1125 01:17:32.359 --> 01:17:35.560 I can see how people could hit the bottle, could put that gun to 1126 01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:41.079 the head, because you know it, emotional problems. Guys can get through 1127 01:17:42.159 --> 01:17:46.399 other problems and grief and then other military type issues, but then suddenly you 1128 01:17:46.439 --> 01:17:53.600 get it with emotional problems, family problems about there. It can with terrible 1129 01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:56.399 things on your mind. But I went the other way up, Like right, 1130 01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:59.119 okay, I know which way this is going to go. If I 1131 01:17:59.199 --> 01:18:01.680 just hit the bottle and was trying to get and be better interested, I 1132 01:18:01.760 --> 01:18:05.279 just went right bang. Fitness, fitness, fitness, fitness. I'm in 1133 01:18:05.319 --> 01:18:09.159 a base, it's got a gym open twenty four to seven. I just 1134 01:18:09.199 --> 01:18:11.640 happened to be on the counter Terroce team, so I was based in UK 1135 01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:15.239 and was busy. I just like just any time I had before work, 1136 01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:18.920 I'd be in the gym. After work, I was in the gym back 1137 01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:23.479 at the night and I was just a gym bunny. And over the months 1138 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:29.079 and then I got on a particular good job away working. But it saved 1139 01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:30.560 the duney and eventually I got out of that. And as you know, 1140 01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:34.159 you can get out of that rut. So financial roots and as I said, 1141 01:18:34.199 --> 01:18:38.560 social ruts at the beginning was all, you know, it's part of 1142 01:18:38.640 --> 01:18:44.840 life. Yeah, that's either bullying or sexism or whatever. It's always somebody 1143 01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:48.520 don't go to me. There's always eighties in this wildly might not like because 1144 01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:51.399 you're a football team, because the color of Yeah, yeah, I've always 1145 01:18:51.439 --> 01:18:55.000 had that. I've always had the mentality, like my dad says, you 1146 01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:58.439 get on with people, it doesn't matter. I was brought up on a 1147 01:18:58.520 --> 01:19:01.159 large white estate. Some of the best mate why And I've seen prejudice the 1148 01:19:01.199 --> 01:19:05.479 other way as well. You know, it's it's don't don't. I think 1149 01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:12.319 now people sort of make big problems out of little problems. They seem to 1150 01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:16.600 we we were in a culture where everybody's saying, oh he's done that. 1151 01:19:16.600 --> 01:19:20.279 They're looking to blame somebody instead of just saying, right, I never got 1152 01:19:20.279 --> 01:19:23.560 that job. Okay, it might have been because it was not good enough. 1153 01:19:23.560 --> 01:19:26.560 No, it's because I was a woman, because I'm overweight, because 1154 01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:29.119 of this, that and the other. Just sometimes you just got admit it 1155 01:19:29.960 --> 01:19:31.600 and that. Yeah, if something's wrong, shouted out, stand up for 1156 01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:38.159 yourself. But I always see the best in people and and take every everything 1157 01:19:39.159 --> 01:19:43.840 in context. For instance, I not long ago went back to this village 1158 01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:46.279 and I had a woman talking to me and chats called me like, b 1159 01:19:47.199 --> 01:19:50.840 what was it? Like? What's he saying? And the yes since she 1160 01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:57.520 was really old and she's like then and I used to have a Negro lift 1161 01:19:57.560 --> 01:20:01.119 by me one time and she's talking like that. Boyd, I'm like god, 1162 01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:03.920 that was just because she's no woman. She lives in this village. 1163 01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:08.039 She hasn't seen it in to her. She's back in them days. She 1164 01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:11.479 could have dementia or something, you know me, and it's stuff like I 1165 01:20:11.520 --> 01:20:16.520 even I get confused. I was a scout leader from in Dubai to the 1166 01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:21.359 British Scouting overseas because my son he went to the Cubs and I remember filling 1167 01:20:21.399 --> 01:20:26.039 this form and now I haven't been back to the UK for a long time 1168 01:20:26.560 --> 01:20:30.680 and it said, right, you have to say description of yourself or whatever. 1169 01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:36.840 And he's kicking a box and it said black British Caribbean, mixed race, 1170 01:20:38.079 --> 01:20:41.319 mixed eptleticity I had about ten. I'm like, I'm just a bloke. 1171 01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:45.319 Yeah, I'm like what am I? And I actually said to something. 1172 01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:47.640 I goes, no, I'm off cast and this bride goes to me, 1173 01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:50.000 you can't say that, this white guy. He goes, if I 1174 01:20:50.199 --> 01:20:54.720 said that, I get you know, I'd lose my job because what do 1175 01:20:54.720 --> 01:20:57.439 you mean? He goes that went out about twenty years ago. I goes, 1176 01:20:57.640 --> 01:20:59.960 well, what is it? Is it mixed race? And he goes, 1177 01:21:00.119 --> 01:21:04.840 know, you are now in UK bame, which is black Asian minority 1178 01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:11.199 ethnic that's what a black person called the UK. Now bame? What it's 1179 01:21:11.319 --> 01:21:15.000 ba? And I'm like, I'm god, Now, who says this? 1180 01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:17.800 Who has labeled me? Who says you are now bame? You can't be 1181 01:21:17.840 --> 01:21:21.640 black anymore, you can't be colored anymore, you can't be off cast anymore. 1182 01:21:21.800 --> 01:21:25.960 You are now bame? Who who comes out with these words? And 1183 01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:28.920 if I didn't know this, then other people don't know. You know, 1184 01:21:29.079 --> 01:21:32.399 you just don't know what to say in that anymore. And it's not moaning. 1185 01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:35.720 It's just like I have to have a giggle about it because to me, 1186 01:21:36.880 --> 01:21:41.399 because as I said, just this is a positive and every everything. 1187 01:21:41.840 --> 01:21:45.800 I get up in the morning and my wife says, I'm like a puppy 1188 01:21:45.159 --> 01:21:47.760 because as soon as it's lies, I'm up and I want to get out. 1189 01:21:47.800 --> 01:21:50.239 I don't care if it's raining or whatever. I like to get out 1190 01:21:50.279 --> 01:21:55.399 and do some type of fitness. I just do. And just to me, 1191 01:21:55.760 --> 01:21:58.239 it's positive. I'm up, I'm awake, I want to do something. 1192 01:21:58.359 --> 01:22:01.199 We're humans with bodies, we meant to be moving, and that's always 1193 01:22:01.239 --> 01:22:08.600 been my attitude. So we have got an awful lot of resilience to pass 1194 01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:13.079 on to people, especially in the civilian population. Now I think the I 1195 01:22:13.119 --> 01:22:17.199 know everybody says the generations are getting weaker and easier, but they are getting 1196 01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:20.520 recer and easier. And it's just like sometimes you want to just to get 1197 01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:25.279 great people and say right, just common sense, come on, let's call 1198 01:22:25.319 --> 01:22:29.439 it out and just you know, people get on. We all know what's 1199 01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:32.319 wrong, what's right, but get people to benefit of the doubt. Not 1200 01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:39.119 every time they're trying to they're trying to cause problems for you, and I 1201 01:22:39.159 --> 01:22:43.439 think a lot of times it comes from above. They just want to create 1202 01:22:43.520 --> 01:22:46.279 problems. I think there's not so much in UK a race problem. I 1203 01:22:46.279 --> 01:22:50.199 think it's a class problem. That's the biggest problem, people coming up there 1204 01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:54.000 growing up on a class Because as I said, I grew up in a 1205 01:22:54.119 --> 01:22:57.720 white working class I was gonna stay not just as bad as if he was 1206 01:22:57.760 --> 01:23:00.359 in a black councilorist area. Where this lot of black people, they's all 1207 01:23:00.399 --> 01:23:02.760 the same, they are game for these same problems. Your skin. They 1208 01:23:02.800 --> 01:23:06.560 all haven't got much money. They all used to jump in the same bathtub 1209 01:23:06.600 --> 01:23:11.079 and use the same water, you know, And it's just people. The 1210 01:23:11.119 --> 01:23:15.520 people get on with people and life. There's always going to be problems in 1211 01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:17.640 life. But you just can't get over him, can't you. Yeah, 1212 01:23:17.920 --> 01:23:23.760 like you said, And to me, looking back, I got back in 1213 01:23:23.840 --> 01:23:28.319 touch with my because I lost touch with my old unit when I was faced 1214 01:23:28.319 --> 01:23:31.119 in the military. But then I've recently got back in touch with a lots 1215 01:23:31.119 --> 01:23:35.439 of people, especially moving back to UK. And I remember seeing a platoon 1216 01:23:35.960 --> 01:23:40.680 paton photograph and somebody's telling me and then looking at the guys, I'm like, 1217 01:23:40.760 --> 01:23:44.760 wow, he committee suicide. He committeed suicide. He committeed suicide. 1218 01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:49.119 He is now lots not lost the plot. I say lots of probably you 1219 01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:54.520 know where he's always in and out. It means it's sex sections. He's 1220 01:23:54.760 --> 01:23:58.399 really had problem. I've got a few of them. And I look at 1221 01:23:58.399 --> 01:24:00.359 this platoon and it's that many of and then a couple of got guys have 1222 01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:03.600 gone in prison. I'm like, wow, that's not if you get theater 1223 01:24:03.720 --> 01:24:11.000 guys from just a normal area society of that class saying in the in the 1224 01:24:11.800 --> 01:24:15.439 in a different job or different in that factory, and you'll got together years 1225 01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:20.000 later. It wonn't be like that in the military. But if you look 1226 01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:25.640 at it in the military, it's it's a trut and mirrored and and and 1227 01:24:26.319 --> 01:24:29.479 every unit. That's what it's like in the British military anyway, there's that 1228 01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:36.800 many veterans suffering, especially uh the suicide rates. And I know it's the 1229 01:24:36.840 --> 01:24:41.079 same in in America, or even worse in America. I think it'd be 1230 01:24:41.119 --> 01:24:44.840 worse in America because, let's face it, you've got weapons so easily at 1231 01:24:44.880 --> 01:24:46.760 hand. There's been times here, you know, when you can you can 1232 01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:51.319 see people have badly said, they really had bad times and if they just 1233 01:24:51.319 --> 01:24:55.720 wanted, they could felt like topping themselves, but it's a bit more difficult 1234 01:24:56.199 --> 01:25:00.439 just to walk out and walk in front of the train, or then if 1235 01:25:00.439 --> 01:25:06.000 you've got pistol there and you really depressed and bang. So yea a really 1236 01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:12.239 grim sort of statistic that I've been told. As you know, American soldiers, 1237 01:25:12.279 --> 01:25:15.439 when they sadly take their own lives in the United States, it's usually 1238 01:25:15.439 --> 01:25:19.000 a firearm, you're you're right, But then when you see when they're deployed 1239 01:25:19.000 --> 01:25:25.439 overseas to places like Japan, they're in Okinawa, suddenly it turns to hangings 1240 01:25:27.119 --> 01:25:32.319 and yeah, it's it's sad, and I think we could do a much 1241 01:25:32.319 --> 01:25:40.159 better job with it. Yeah, and I think especially our you know, 1242 01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:45.800 our governments. But I do know for a fact your veterans, you you 1243 01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:49.479 are looked after a lot better than the British military vesterans, your your v 1244 01:25:49.600 --> 01:25:54.279 A, your medical COVID and that because, like I said, for the 1245 01:25:54.319 --> 01:26:00.800 last eleven years I was working with it was basically American military consultancy firm. 1246 01:26:01.039 --> 01:26:08.800 So I was working for a military as private and it's called Schamau Solutions, 1247 01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:13.960 and it's military consultants. So I was employed by American firm, but it 1248 01:26:14.079 --> 01:26:17.039 was like ex British special Forces as well as American special Forces from more to 1249 01:26:17.119 --> 01:26:21.159 your different special forces groups and then some other guys and depending on what job 1250 01:26:21.199 --> 01:26:25.960 you were doing. And speaking of you guys and about the different pensions and 1251 01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:30.359 about the veterans and about how you you get looked after and other armies. 1252 01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:34.439 It's, let's face it, it's it's it's quite disgusted. And what gets 1253 01:26:34.479 --> 01:26:39.880 me though, is the British public. They it's that they look after the 1254 01:26:39.920 --> 01:26:43.600 British vets more than anybody else. That it's the charities, because the British 1255 01:26:43.640 --> 01:26:46.079 public love, love, love the military. And it's as if the government 1256 01:26:46.159 --> 01:26:54.359 say, wow, we know that their own people there, they will they 1257 01:26:54.399 --> 01:26:59.239 will provide charities for them. It's like I just did recently sleep out for 1258 01:26:59.279 --> 01:27:05.159 the homeless for veterans and stuff like that, and you know you're raising money 1259 01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:11.640 just local communities are for a rome, not just veterans, but onless and 1260 01:27:11.640 --> 01:27:15.800 this isn't this isn't modern society. It shouldn't be going on. Yeah yeah, 1261 01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:18.000 yeah. The government should step in and fill that role rather than just 1262 01:27:18.239 --> 01:27:24.640 lying on charities to do it. But no, it is good to hear 1263 01:27:24.680 --> 01:27:29.039 though, that the that the British public and is so supportive. I remember 1264 01:27:29.079 --> 01:27:32.199 walking around London and like going into bookshops and it's like America in the sense 1265 01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:36.640 like there's be like a whole display of books of like how awesome the British 1266 01:27:36.640 --> 01:27:41.000 War and World War Two. It's like it's clear that there's that that affinity 1267 01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:45.520 is there kind of the same way it is in the United States. But 1268 01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:49.000 that only one thing that really gets me though, is what I found about 1269 01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:53.199 in the States is the flag. You love you, that's you, that's 1270 01:27:53.239 --> 01:27:58.600 your country, that's your culture. It's flown everywhere in the States, and 1271 01:27:58.640 --> 01:28:01.199 then in the UK people, oh god, they seems to get annoyed. 1272 01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:04.359 I've got my flag, but there I've got a flag post outside my house, 1273 01:28:04.399 --> 01:28:09.359 a pole with my flag, the Union flag flying. I think everybody 1274 01:28:09.399 --> 01:28:14.359 showed that. It's just that over the years, don't you had years ago, 1275 01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:19.439 you know, small right wing units who used to add the Union jack 1276 01:28:19.479 --> 01:28:25.159 and try and kidnap that Union jack and say it's like, uh, fascism. 1277 01:28:25.239 --> 01:28:27.239 And I was a young soldier that I'm like, no, no, 1278 01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:30.920 you know, this was back in the day they'd have like National Front marches 1279 01:28:30.920 --> 01:28:35.000 and everything. I'd see these guys and all that and just a bunch of 1280 01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:39.399 folks basically, and then carry that union jack. But that didn't stop me 1281 01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:44.560 when replied, that's my union jack. And then you've got like four left 1282 01:28:44.560 --> 01:28:48.960 people saying, oh, the union jack. That represents slavery and the empire 1283 01:28:49.239 --> 01:28:53.880 and what happened two one hundred and fifty years ago, and like, come 1284 01:28:53.920 --> 01:28:57.840 off it, how stupid. You know, it's in the weirding empire. 1285 01:28:58.279 --> 01:29:00.279 You don't get an empire by just saying excuse me, can I take over? 1286 01:29:01.920 --> 01:29:05.319 That's how it was. Get over it. But it's our country. 1287 01:29:05.359 --> 01:29:11.319 We should be proud of our country, and most of the population are. 1288 01:29:11.800 --> 01:29:17.079 And it's just that I don't know a few politicians they just want to not 1289 01:29:17.159 --> 01:29:20.680 please everyone. They seem to want to please the minority. You know, 1290 01:29:21.279 --> 01:29:25.479 I don't know some set minority to say we shouldn't be having the we shouldn't 1291 01:29:25.479 --> 01:29:32.960 be celebrating our culture or celebrating being being who we are being having an empire. 1292 01:29:33.039 --> 01:29:36.640 Yeah, we had an empire, So what people did? Some talk 1293 01:29:36.680 --> 01:29:41.439 about taking out the British Empire Medal. How pathetic, just because it has 1294 01:29:41.520 --> 01:29:45.840 empire and it's I don't know, it's as if people are looking for problems. 1295 01:29:45.319 --> 01:29:48.600 Yeah, and if they've got no problem, they've got no problems. 1296 01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:54.520 Yeah, they've got the Now why are you going back to hundred years look 1297 01:29:54.560 --> 01:30:00.000 for problems if you went back today? Yeah, yeah, these no problems. 1298 01:30:00.000 --> 01:30:03.319 Get so you know, I have a laugh about it and just enjoy 1299 01:30:03.399 --> 01:30:06.600 life and have a positive about everything and just see the best in everyone. 1300 01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:12.159 You know, your mate, your mate, no matter what. There was 1301 01:30:12.239 --> 01:30:16.600 one subject that I kind of missed as we were talking Melvin, that I 1302 01:30:16.640 --> 01:30:19.960 wanted to go back and hit up with you, which is the hunt for 1303 01:30:20.000 --> 01:30:25.399 the Pifwicks in in the Balkans, which was, you know, a pretty 1304 01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:29.720 righteous mission that you guys did, going after war criminals. Could could you 1305 01:30:29.760 --> 01:30:32.039 tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, Well, most of my 1306 01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:35.720 time has actually been in the in the units, is in the in the 1307 01:30:35.800 --> 01:30:45.279 special forces. After I've dealt with it's either terrorists and insurgents, enemy combatants 1308 01:30:45.359 --> 01:30:50.880 or pifwicks and that's persons indentity for war crimes. And these people, god 1309 01:30:51.199 --> 01:30:58.000 what they the atrocities they did. And Bosnia, you know, this is 1310 01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:01.000 not just the Bosnian Sabs it was the the Muslims, the Croats, they 1311 01:31:01.039 --> 01:31:04.199 all did it, but obviously the Sims were the bigger, the bigger party. 1312 01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:09.680 And it just shows you where neighbors can be getting on for generations. 1313 01:31:09.680 --> 01:31:16.279 Then suddenly but it's you know, something happens and then does that divide? 1314 01:31:16.359 --> 01:31:20.239 What starts again and to build up from the past, and then something happens 1315 01:31:20.239 --> 01:31:24.600 to that person and they have to take retaliation and before you know it, 1316 01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:28.399 chopping people's heads off, and these masks made it going on and it was 1317 01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:34.039 terrible, and yeah, so persons indented for war crimes. We actually we 1318 01:31:34.199 --> 01:31:38.279 took out a lot of them and captured a lot of them and we had 1319 01:31:38.319 --> 01:31:43.880 specific missions and yeah, that was yeah, really really interesting way. But 1320 01:31:44.520 --> 01:31:50.640 usually on them type of jobs you knew well in advance you're targeting, so 1321 01:31:50.920 --> 01:31:55.199 it wasn't you know, you had a lot of planning time for it and 1322 01:31:55.239 --> 01:31:59.520 then away you go. And I remember being on a job where literally you 1323 01:31:59.680 --> 01:32:02.279 just wait for you go down and then I was shopping in the supermarket. 1324 01:32:02.600 --> 01:32:06.680 Then you get the call, then you're in the camp and then flash the 1325 01:32:06.800 --> 01:32:11.119 bang, you've gone away. Four to eight hours, you're back and I'm 1326 01:32:11.119 --> 01:32:15.960 watching soccer on TV, and yet you've been involved and really full you know, 1327 01:32:17.159 --> 01:32:25.880 uh, a really intense mission and that so that was that was the 1328 01:32:25.920 --> 01:32:28.560 difference. You would just be banging in and out, in and out. 1329 01:32:29.000 --> 01:32:31.439 Are there any any of those captures that kind of like really stand out in 1330 01:32:31.479 --> 01:32:35.439 your mind? Yeah, there's a there's a few few of them tell you 1331 01:32:35.439 --> 01:32:45.720 the true you know, Yeah, there's and sometimes you have to Obviously I've 1332 01:32:45.760 --> 01:32:48.199 got I can't say names and all that because it's endangering, it's endangering myself. 1333 01:32:48.279 --> 01:32:55.000 And that there's been there's been times when literally I've been in a task 1334 01:32:55.039 --> 01:32:58.039 where I've a to used my weapon like a modern day club because you've done 1335 01:32:58.079 --> 01:33:02.640 everything in your power apprehends somebody, you know, and that's what you can 1336 01:33:02.760 --> 01:33:09.039 that's really close and personal. Yeah yeah, but yeah, yeah, but 1337 01:33:09.119 --> 01:33:16.479 they, as I said that they got there, just deserves the the pithwicks 1338 01:33:16.680 --> 01:33:21.880 and it's going to happen again. And there's that many pificks get going on 1339 01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:28.760 around the world now, yeah, And that's fasicly god. Yeah, and 1340 01:33:28.800 --> 01:33:30.960 then there was there was many other different business But like I said, it's 1341 01:33:31.079 --> 01:33:38.399 just like before you know it, I remember joining in ninety four and then 1342 01:33:38.640 --> 01:33:41.560 be given in ninety five. It was on the counter terrorist team. And 1343 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:44.920 then we just get told, okay, this weekend because you're always working the 1344 01:33:44.920 --> 01:33:48.319 weekends because that's when the police get there overtime, and you go down and 1345 01:33:48.359 --> 01:33:53.880 you practice on the on the all the embassies, you practice in the main 1346 01:33:53.920 --> 01:33:56.560 areas where you think is going to get taken on. You go to the 1347 01:33:56.560 --> 01:34:00.720 main airport. You practice on the main airport, so you know when if 1348 01:34:00.720 --> 01:34:02.399 there's a big terrice incident, you know where to go, and you know 1349 01:34:02.439 --> 01:34:06.119 you have to practice on different planes, trains and everything. That's that's common 1350 01:34:06.159 --> 01:34:11.399 knowledge and just in case he's a major incident in the UK. So this 1351 01:34:11.560 --> 01:34:14.000 weekend before we was having off. Next minute we was told, no, 1352 01:34:14.520 --> 01:34:18.239 you're not, there's no this, this we can We thought it was one 1353 01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:21.479 of the only weekends we weren't going to be working. And then and the 1354 01:34:21.520 --> 01:34:29.159 reason was because it was Princess Diana and Ari and William, so it was 1355 01:34:29.199 --> 01:34:31.079 one of their birthdays that they'd just come down to the area FAED and then 1356 01:34:31.319 --> 01:34:34.159 you take them all out and show them all this stuff and that they were 1357 01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:40.119 they were regular visitors the royals for that. But it was amazing because like 1358 01:34:40.159 --> 01:34:45.079 Okay, next minute you're chatting to Princess Diana and kid stuff and you're doing 1359 01:34:45.159 --> 01:34:49.960 live live showing them live CQB and stuff like that. You just don't get 1360 01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:55.119 that no more. Only on the weekend with a day's no with two days. 1361 01:34:55.159 --> 01:34:58.920 Notice you shared their picture with me, didn't you? Yeah that that 1362 01:34:59.079 --> 01:35:03.800 that was the one in ninety ninety five. Yeah, So did Princess Diana 1363 01:35:03.880 --> 01:35:06.239 do any of the stuff in the shoot house where you had to go in 1364 01:35:06.279 --> 01:35:11.640 and rescue her? Now that they were all just watching. And it's really 1365 01:35:11.439 --> 01:35:14.960 really funny because the watchers all go in and you know it's live rounds, 1366 01:35:15.680 --> 01:35:17.760 so you have you've got live ammunition there and there's no safety on. You've 1367 01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:21.760 got your safety off because obviously there and they've just shown you. And when 1368 01:35:21.760 --> 01:35:25.720 they've got all targets up and obviously there's rubber walls, so you go in 1369 01:35:25.760 --> 01:35:29.119 there and you fire and so on, and you do it nice and fast, 1370 01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:31.680 and then then what happened with was then they tend all the lights off 1371 01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:35.000 and they're explaining they change the target, you around and you explain it to 1372 01:35:35.039 --> 01:35:40.279 the princess and everything, and also we can do this over night and as 1373 01:35:40.279 --> 01:35:43.600 we're talking. We all go in this time with our night vision goggles and 1374 01:35:43.600 --> 01:35:45.680 everything on. So you've got your lasers, and I remember going in there, 1375 01:35:45.760 --> 01:35:49.239 I've got live ammunition, and twenty meters in front of us is the 1376 01:35:49.239 --> 01:35:53.399 princess and the kids, and you walk in towards them, and then I 1377 01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:57.960 tinnt I turned to my target, and they say SE S stands for and 1378 01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:00.720 the officers talking, and so they obviously they come to you. They like, 1379 01:36:00.840 --> 01:36:03.399 you know, they don't know, and they were just saying, you 1380 01:36:03.399 --> 01:36:05.560 imagine, now we kill all the lights, and they took it. And 1381 01:36:05.640 --> 01:36:11.600 the office said S S stands for speed, aggression and surprise. And on 1382 01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:15.560 surprise it's double top, you know, with silences, and then the lights 1383 01:36:15.560 --> 01:36:17.880 come on and there you are and it's like, oh, shock effects. 1384 01:36:17.880 --> 01:36:23.520 But to me it was like going through. I've got my laser and you 1385 01:36:23.560 --> 01:36:26.920 know, I'm like, wow, no safety catch on. And then there's 1386 01:36:26.960 --> 01:36:31.800 the princess and the two princes. I always imagine if the trips over that 1387 01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:42.239 one's gone down, Well, would it like another another question I'd love to 1388 01:36:42.319 --> 01:36:45.199 ask you. You know, you mentioned a little bit earlier on like the 1389 01:36:45.319 --> 01:36:51.399 question of or the subject of race in the sas. I'd love to hear, 1390 01:36:51.520 --> 01:36:56.680 like, were there any situations where being a black dude was like advantageous 1391 01:36:56.720 --> 01:37:00.600 to you as an SAS operator, where your ability to blow and in or 1392 01:37:00.680 --> 01:37:03.840 relate to people, no what it what it was. There's very very few 1393 01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:13.239 British born people in the very very few. There's a few few guys like 1394 01:37:13.239 --> 01:37:17.239 because from the fathers say it might have been for GNN and it's come down 1395 01:37:17.279 --> 01:37:24.319 the family lines and he's found himself in and and sometimes we get New Zealand 1396 01:37:24.439 --> 01:37:27.560 s s. Sometimes they come on our course and get in and they like 1397 01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:30.920 the Marini type. So you do have a few a few different shades in 1398 01:37:30.960 --> 01:37:34.960 there. However, once I got to the ses, there was never any 1399 01:37:35.039 --> 01:37:39.560 racism whatsoever. I never seen it faulted to anything. As I said, 1400 01:37:39.560 --> 01:37:41.960 it was just going on that course. And that was just one one guy 1401 01:37:42.039 --> 01:37:45.680 giving a comment. You know, little races. Yeah, yeah, you 1402 01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:50.800 get that everywhere, and you know that's never going change. And he could 1403 01:37:51.000 --> 01:37:55.199 I could ginger and he could have been saying, right, there's ginger or 1404 01:37:55.239 --> 01:37:58.039 whatever. You know what I mean. It's just just that, I mean, 1405 01:37:58.079 --> 01:38:00.199 I was curious if it ever like it in your favor, like they 1406 01:38:00.199 --> 01:38:02.920 said that you wouldn't be able to blend in Northern Ireland of course, but 1407 01:38:03.079 --> 01:38:08.600 other parts of the world I can't. Yeah, yeah, Jack, there's 1408 01:38:08.640 --> 01:38:12.560 been times like that. We've worked out, we've witched in the foreign countries, 1409 01:38:12.600 --> 01:38:15.520 you know, in Africa and place like that, where even though they 1410 01:38:15.560 --> 01:38:19.000 know you're on Africa, but yeah, you definitely do you work them with 1411 01:38:19.039 --> 01:38:25.800 other people from there, and yeah, it can go in your favor because 1412 01:38:26.199 --> 01:38:29.880 they see you as not one of them, but you're more looking like one 1413 01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:31.039 of them, you know, right, and so on, So yeah, 1414 01:38:31.079 --> 01:38:36.079 that definitely can go in your favor as well. So yeah, but as 1415 01:38:36.680 --> 01:38:43.680 you know, part of our job is also training all different special forces, 1416 01:38:43.880 --> 01:38:46.439 trained many many of them, so you get into you get in with different 1417 01:38:46.439 --> 01:38:53.840 cultures and as you it's art of minds that's what really helps. And that's 1418 01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:58.479 that's great how the special forces are experts and that because as you know, 1419 01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:03.199 it's you can win somebody's arts and minds. You've got such a bonus. 1420 01:39:03.199 --> 01:39:05.920 You've got an ace. You've got an ACE in your and your pack of 1421 01:39:05.960 --> 01:39:10.319 cards, aren't you. You know, they can give you information Italian and 1422 01:39:10.359 --> 01:39:18.159 then it's again you've got the responsibility of making that mistake and killing the wrong 1423 01:39:18.199 --> 01:39:23.279 person, not by mistake or somebody in that village, and that's it. 1424 01:39:23.359 --> 01:39:27.279 You've turned everybody against it, or it can go strategic levels if you drop 1425 01:39:27.319 --> 01:39:31.319 that bomb in the wrong place. So yeah, there's an awful responsibilities. 1426 01:39:32.159 --> 01:39:39.159 Yeah, questions for Melbourne at all, We just have I think one. 1427 01:39:39.680 --> 01:39:43.840 Let me have a question. Okay, actually it's not even a question, 1428 01:39:43.880 --> 01:39:45.880 it's just corn. Thank you very much for the donation. Be sure it 1429 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:50.880 hit that like button. What do you got d Hey, Melvin, I'm 1430 01:39:50.880 --> 01:39:54.880 the meter and the producer. I got a question about the MP five. 1431 01:39:54.920 --> 01:39:56.920 Did you like it? Did you hate it? Tell me about it? 1432 01:39:57.920 --> 01:40:00.079 Yeah, they be fat back in the day. I like, you know 1433 01:40:00.479 --> 01:40:06.479 with the suppress. Yeah it was. You had a few stoppages, but 1434 01:40:06.560 --> 01:40:12.159 I personally liked it South I thought it was all right. I know people 1435 01:40:12.640 --> 01:40:15.119 don't like it, most people, but yeah, I'll do it. It's 1436 01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:20.680 okay, room clearing or aircraft takedowns or what what role do you think it 1437 01:40:20.680 --> 01:40:26.520 would fit into. Yeah, it was the room clearing, our aircraft takedowns 1438 01:40:26.520 --> 01:40:30.119 because at the time it was like the nice small weapon and doing all your 1439 01:40:30.159 --> 01:40:33.560 vp P drills as well, because then you know, it could be sloped 1440 01:40:33.600 --> 01:40:39.520 down nice and easy into a collapsible backpack and into your your small bags and 1441 01:40:39.520 --> 01:40:44.199 everything and into the car fitted while in for car drills, especially their empty 1442 01:40:44.279 --> 01:40:48.479 five short Yeah. So yeah, and that's a great thing about the Special 1443 01:40:48.520 --> 01:40:53.079 Force, isn't it. You're not just you're not just one minute you're doing 1444 01:40:53.199 --> 01:40:56.600 we're doing artic and then you're doing a bush exercise, you're doing a jungle 1445 01:40:56.600 --> 01:40:59.960 exercise, you're doing the desert. You're just all over the place and now 1446 01:41:00.039 --> 01:41:03.600 and you're on the counter terrorist team, so you're doing the civilian side stuff 1447 01:41:03.640 --> 01:41:08.760 and then suddenly you get taken away. Not only that I being a member 1448 01:41:08.760 --> 01:41:13.680 coming from a jungle exercise, and then literally a day later you're into suited 1449 01:41:13.720 --> 01:41:19.680 and booted in civilian clothes looking after really diplomats in a in a really risk 1450 01:41:20.079 --> 01:41:26.000 area. You know. Again then you're in CIVVY, so you do all 1451 01:41:26.039 --> 01:41:30.359 the the IP type of courses and drills and that. So it's such a 1452 01:41:30.319 --> 01:41:33.680 we say with like jack of all trades mastered and none. You're just constantly 1453 01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:39.119 on the go, right, Yeah, it's brilliant, brilliant. One other 1454 01:41:39.159 --> 01:41:43.720 one from mc m Corbyn, Thanks again, do you have a favorite challenge 1455 01:41:43.760 --> 01:41:49.159 coin, Hoden, do you have a favorite challenge coin? Point coin? 1456 01:41:49.399 --> 01:41:55.600 Are coins the thing that you guys do in the UK, I mean this 1457 01:41:55.800 --> 01:41:58.840 type of yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, we got 1458 01:41:59.159 --> 01:42:02.159 these. My favorite coin is obviously these are one for each squadron. That's 1459 01:42:02.199 --> 01:42:05.800 my that was my squadron. So you'd have the S S badge on his 1460 01:42:05.880 --> 01:42:14.399 back, and then you've got that's D squadron and that's represent that represent represents 1461 01:42:14.439 --> 01:42:20.920 the squadron. And then you've got M say, this is B squadron. 1462 01:42:25.720 --> 01:42:30.520 This is an easy one, that's a squadron, and then this is G 1463 01:42:31.159 --> 01:42:34.399 squadron because it was God's squadron. And on the back. You've got these 1464 01:42:34.439 --> 01:42:38.760 coins. But I've got I've got loads of coins because I know this was 1465 01:42:38.800 --> 01:42:44.399 a big it's really big in the American military, and I remember over the 1466 01:42:44.439 --> 01:42:48.760 years getting given coins. We never did in the UK. We should do, 1467 01:42:48.880 --> 01:42:54.439 but yeah, the could you explain if you if you know that the 1468 01:42:54.520 --> 01:42:58.840 symbolism of the torch on the D squadron coin, well, it's not a 1469 01:42:58.880 --> 01:43:04.039 torture. It's actually it's actually a it's a dagger and it's from the Malayan 1470 01:43:04.119 --> 01:43:13.279 conflict. The squadron. Yeah, and and this famous conflict and the Old 1471 01:43:13.319 --> 01:43:20.079 Man a small group of that they were old like against lots and lots of 1472 01:43:21.319 --> 01:43:28.800 rebels and this was all secret and it was the squadron. This is the 1473 01:43:28.800 --> 01:43:31.720 the squadron. Who was who was the main ones And he's a famous guy 1474 01:43:31.760 --> 01:43:36.640 and he was from Fiji and he stood his ground and he just kept on 1475 01:43:38.119 --> 01:43:44.239 firing this mortar and machine gun and unfortunately he died and we've got a statue 1476 01:43:44.239 --> 01:43:46.439 of him. So that's yeah, that's that's the squadron. So that's why 1477 01:43:46.439 --> 01:43:55.239 we got that. Yeah, what about the tick or the squadron the scorpion 1478 01:43:55.359 --> 01:44:00.119 tick for a squadron, Yeah, so that the truth. I've got no 1479 01:44:00.199 --> 01:44:03.600 idea because that's a squadron. I don't really know. And it's the same 1480 01:44:03.640 --> 01:44:08.680 with the claw for B squadron because it's it's really weird because you've got a 1481 01:44:08.840 --> 01:44:12.279 B DG. We all do the same thing. We're all saper fighting squadrons. 1482 01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:15.520 And then with each squadron you've also you've got like your air troop, 1483 01:44:15.600 --> 01:44:18.439 your mobility to troop, your boat troop, and your mounting troop. And 1484 01:44:18.479 --> 01:44:21.479 that's just an insertion skill. You mostly work as a squadron, so you' 1485 01:44:21.479 --> 01:44:25.399 all doing the same things, you rotate, but they're so different. The 1486 01:44:25.399 --> 01:44:29.720 squadrons are so different. B squadron throughout my time and even now I know 1487 01:44:29.760 --> 01:44:32.600 people are still there, they still say that's like the funt They are a 1488 01:44:32.640 --> 01:44:36.680 bit more chilled out, yeah, a bit more laughable squadron. The squadron 1489 01:44:36.720 --> 01:44:40.640 I was in, it was always classes, a bit more formal, yeah, 1490 01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:43.560 and it used to be. And then a squadron they just weirdos. 1491 01:44:43.720 --> 01:44:47.880 Everybody calls it these strange, these strange blokes's and the guards squadron because they 1492 01:44:47.960 --> 01:44:53.079 were ex guards, they seem a bit more yeah, a bit more art 1493 01:44:53.279 --> 01:44:56.119 arty, but they aren't. But they're the same. But what it is, 1494 01:44:56.800 --> 01:45:00.119 I do believe is certain individuals when you get to that squadron who were 1495 01:45:00.159 --> 01:45:06.239 the majors and that they they look out for the people and they sort of 1496 01:45:06.279 --> 01:45:10.760 meant to them, and they've got to be that type same character. So 1497 01:45:10.840 --> 01:45:13.680 for be squad they've got to be more of a chilled happy, go lucky 1498 01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:17.479 And you find all their exorgeant majors were and are and and so that makes 1499 01:45:17.479 --> 01:45:21.560 more of a chilled up to go lucky sort of squadron. But everybody does 1500 01:45:21.560 --> 01:45:26.039 the same job and it's so the same. I remember a Bee squadron because 1501 01:45:26.039 --> 01:45:29.640 like I mean the squadron they said, we are more formal. And I 1502 01:45:30.239 --> 01:45:32.640 remember one time he was on the counter terrorist team and we were firing all 1503 01:45:32.640 --> 01:45:35.479 these rounds. I remember this. Officers are saying, oh, great, 1504 01:45:35.680 --> 01:45:39.920 we have fired like double the rounds that D Squadron, I mean that B 1505 01:45:40.079 --> 01:45:43.720 Squadron did on the build up to take an over the counter terrorist team. 1506 01:45:44.439 --> 01:45:46.560 But I'll tell you what, they were just as good as shots than they 1507 01:45:46.640 --> 01:45:51.159 knows because as you know, yeah, you fire loads and loads and repetitive, 1508 01:45:51.239 --> 01:45:57.119 but after a bit you get that tired and then you start going down 1509 01:45:57.199 --> 01:46:00.800 back and that's what we do. We've just being in the South out they 1510 01:46:00.840 --> 01:46:03.640 would do it to the right level. So yeah, we fired more shots, 1511 01:46:03.640 --> 01:46:06.079 but that doesn't mean really better. We're all the same, yeah, 1512 01:46:06.079 --> 01:46:14.600 but it's it's really weird how different squadrons maintained that sort of culture character. 1513 01:46:15.079 --> 01:46:18.159 Yeah, and it's been we're you know. I remember when I got there, 1514 01:46:18.199 --> 01:46:21.479 people who've been in for the donkeysh years we were getting out and they 1515 01:46:21.560 --> 01:46:24.600 used to say, this has always been like this, And then you look 1516 01:46:24.680 --> 01:46:28.199 through it, it says, and then I know people who've still been there 1517 01:46:28.359 --> 01:46:30.159 since I've got out and have been there, you know, a long time, 1518 01:46:30.199 --> 01:46:34.680 and on on on different type of jobs which you can keep it stay 1519 01:46:34.880 --> 01:46:39.760 active now in the SS up until sixty five, obviously not going operational but 1520 01:46:40.359 --> 01:46:44.800 training jobs. And they say it's just the same. Yeah, obviously the 1521 01:46:45.199 --> 01:46:49.479 equipment changes in that, but basically the soldiers, the man is just the 1522 01:46:49.520 --> 01:46:55.479 same. The selection basically is ugly ever changed. You know. Yeah, 1523 01:46:55.600 --> 01:47:01.520 let's face it. It's to me now, it's technically if you've got to 1524 01:47:01.520 --> 01:47:05.319 be a bit more tep minded, you've got you've got to want because you've 1525 01:47:05.319 --> 01:47:09.760 got to keep it at the time, so we all would have been yeah, 1526 01:47:09.800 --> 01:47:13.880 because it's all a lot more computers and it's all you know, drones 1527 01:47:13.960 --> 01:47:17.720 and everything and so on. But yeah, I was just gonna say that, 1528 01:47:18.239 --> 01:47:23.239 it's funny because we have that. We have that same sort of thing 1529 01:47:23.319 --> 01:47:29.159 in American special operations, where you know, it's the squadron or the company 1530 01:47:29.239 --> 01:47:33.600 or whatever has a personality. Everybody knows what the other you know, component's 1531 01:47:33.640 --> 01:47:40.439 personality's like, and everybody's happy to be in their you know, unit for 1532 01:47:40.560 --> 01:47:44.159 exactly that reason. It's like we're better than all the want to be over 1533 01:47:44.199 --> 01:47:46.399 with the Alpha box or you know, you know an Aco, you know, 1534 01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:49.640 like it's like but you know the people on Aco. I was like, 1535 01:47:49.680 --> 01:47:54.039 ah, fuck those other guys. You know, Yeah, it's amazing 1536 01:47:54.119 --> 01:48:00.239 that it's that type of ethos's built into everyone in it. And I know 1537 01:48:00.319 --> 01:48:03.359 you guys are the same. And I was just watching you then, just 1538 01:48:03.640 --> 01:48:08.520 you were just pouring a whiskey. But I thought, I remember when where 1539 01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:11.720 was it? Now? When I went on one of the first trips, 1540 01:48:11.760 --> 01:48:14.840 that was it. When we went to the Airborne Rangers and has been out 1541 01:48:14.840 --> 01:48:19.239 and I was speaking to American guys and we're all chewing up tobacco that doesn't 1542 01:48:19.279 --> 01:48:25.039 happen in UK, and one was doing it in the class. And then 1543 01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:29.119 then and then later on in the night, I was on Jack Daniels and 1544 01:48:29.199 --> 01:48:33.479 coke. And then one time I picked up the wrong glass, I was 1545 01:48:33.520 --> 01:48:40.840 passed and then yeah, I've been he's been doing it in the glass. 1546 01:48:41.319 --> 01:48:45.680 It's like, yeah, Jesus. But I also remember about this guy that 1547 01:48:45.960 --> 01:48:48.840 this Poara guy who and this was when it was on the training unit and 1548 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:55.279 he had actually two years working with American and the and the they actually went 1549 01:48:55.279 --> 01:48:59.319 to the first Golf War with him, and and he came back after two 1550 01:48:59.399 --> 01:49:03.840 years and he took the back and he's only he's the only British person I've 1551 01:49:03.880 --> 01:49:09.920 ever seen doing it. But he was addicted to and it's really amazing. 1552 01:49:10.000 --> 01:49:14.800 How you know that's never taken off in and in the in the British. 1553 01:49:15.000 --> 01:49:18.920 But I mean, I think the American military like it runs on that stuff. 1554 01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:24.600 So it's good that, Yeah, it's good. It hasn't Melvin, 1555 01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:27.680 tell us what are you up to today? Where are you at now? 1556 01:49:27.760 --> 01:49:32.000 What are you working on? Oh? Now I'm just there forgotten. Now 1557 01:49:32.960 --> 01:49:39.159 I'll tell you what I've got I'm working on. I'm going down Stoke because 1558 01:49:39.319 --> 01:49:44.039 Stoke City that's my local football team, Okay, yeah, And I'm doing 1559 01:49:44.119 --> 01:49:47.359 I'm doing quite a lot with the community there and I'm doing challenges, what 1560 01:49:47.600 --> 01:49:54.000 raises money, the the on liss and and people there. So people will 1561 01:49:54.039 --> 01:49:58.560 be working on events next week, meeting up with Stoke, the Stoke City 1562 01:49:58.840 --> 01:50:00.359 and me just working on something in the future. I can't say exactly what 1563 01:50:00.399 --> 01:50:03.279 it is now because it's going to come off as a surprise. So be 1564 01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:08.560 working on that and also next week in the week I'm also going to meet 1565 01:50:08.880 --> 01:50:14.680 a friend who he's actually the British middleweight champion and he's going to be fighting 1566 01:50:14.720 --> 01:50:17.119 a world championship, so I'm going to be meeting up with him and he 1567 01:50:17.199 --> 01:50:20.159 does an awful lot for the city of Stoke Contrent as well. This is 1568 01:50:20.159 --> 01:50:26.000 our local city. The boxed in the army too, right, Yeah, 1569 01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:29.439 I used to box then, so that's why I really love the boxing. 1570 01:50:29.600 --> 01:50:31.279 I don't do it anymore, don't even do the training name more because I 1571 01:50:31.359 --> 01:50:34.920 got old injuries. I still keep fit and sell trained all the time. 1572 01:50:36.479 --> 01:50:43.399 But in the military I did it for about five years, yeah to five 1573 01:50:43.439 --> 01:50:46.800 solid and literally were doing it for nine months a year, and it is 1574 01:50:47.199 --> 01:50:49.800 that was was living the life of the boxes. If he was boxing, 1575 01:50:50.239 --> 01:50:54.600 we all used to stay in the same group. You had the best food, 1576 01:50:54.720 --> 01:50:58.640 just lived in tracksuits and then after nine months you just like after fire 1577 01:50:58.640 --> 01:51:00.800 are going do the same army test and that was it. But after that 1578 01:51:00.840 --> 01:51:06.439 you're back in in the in the in the in track suits and then boxing. 1579 01:51:06.680 --> 01:51:10.119 But to me, there was nothing better because you'd listen, you'd have 1580 01:51:10.159 --> 01:51:13.239 all your unit, so you've got a thousands in armored infantry unit, you'd 1581 01:51:13.239 --> 01:51:15.079 have a thousand blokes and know your name. Then you've got a thousand blokes 1582 01:51:15.159 --> 01:51:18.920 know their name, and you'd be battling each other and it's just two warriors. 1583 01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:23.880 And to me, anybody who gets in the ring and fights take me 1584 01:51:23.920 --> 01:51:27.960 out off to them. And back in the day, it was we used 1585 01:51:27.960 --> 01:51:30.119 to every unit you should have its own band. So we used to go 1586 01:51:30.159 --> 01:51:34.319 and used to get drummed into your tune and that, and everybody knows you. 1587 01:51:34.479 --> 01:51:38.560 And then you'd be you'd be fighting a Scottish unit and they come into 1588 01:51:38.560 --> 01:51:42.640 the bad pipes and everybody knows them, or you'd be fighting another unit and 1589 01:51:42.640 --> 01:51:45.880 they've just got all these bugles and it's really good. I get that. 1590 01:51:45.119 --> 01:51:47.800 I get the airs on the on the arms now, because to me, 1591 01:51:48.319 --> 01:51:51.279 that's as close to the real combat as you can because you got them. 1592 01:51:51.399 --> 01:51:56.159 I remember they used to walk up the steps getting ready to go into ring, 1593 01:51:56.479 --> 01:52:00.560 and to me, it's always reminded me of watching one of these films 1594 01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:04.399 where somebody gets hung and you used to have the drums beat and the the 1595 01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:08.720 beat and they walk up up the steps to the gallows and then he get 1596 01:52:08.800 --> 01:52:11.239 on. I used to think of my mind, this is just start going, 1597 01:52:11.640 --> 01:52:14.560 because I had it in my mind. I just didn't ever want, 1598 01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:17.560 you know, just get knocked down and show myself up the first round or 1599 01:52:17.560 --> 01:52:21.720 anything like that. I just couldn't wait for that start and just get a 1600 01:52:21.720 --> 01:52:25.600 few punches and then you ride. I'm in there. Now, I'm in 1601 01:52:25.600 --> 01:52:29.520 the game, and then that's it. You can start. But everything in 1602 01:52:29.600 --> 01:52:31.279 life, everything teaches your lesson then, even boxing. I remember when a 1603 01:52:31.359 --> 01:52:34.880 fair started. I thought I was invincible because I was very, very fit, 1604 01:52:34.920 --> 01:52:39.439 and I was like running everyone. And then I remember fighting this guy 1605 01:52:39.479 --> 01:52:43.119 in another company. This was just into company and he was he was he 1606 01:52:43.239 --> 01:52:45.760 wasn't very good or anything, and anybody thought, oh yeah, I'm going 1607 01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:48.359 to pass you. And I remember whacking and he just took a big shot 1608 01:52:48.399 --> 01:52:51.279 and he caught me, and in my mind I was like, nah, 1609 01:52:51.800 --> 01:52:56.680 he can't. May had have gone. And then I went back to mcorder 1610 01:52:56.960 --> 01:52:59.680 and the rescue account and I'm like, you're saying, you're right. I 1611 01:52:59.720 --> 01:53:01.239 can't remember going back to my corner and yeah, yeah yeah, And I 1612 01:53:01.319 --> 01:53:04.199 went back out there and he got me again. I didn't go down and 1613 01:53:04.720 --> 01:53:10.239 it got stopped. Now anybody else because too that as a negative, and 1614 01:53:10.600 --> 01:53:14.039 you know, I felt really embarrassing that and you could to take that as 1615 01:53:14.159 --> 01:53:15.840 like, wow, that's me, I'm packing and boxing. But what I 1616 01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:20.359 did, I thought, no, ship. I learned from that and I 1617 01:53:20.520 --> 01:53:23.840 just like, right, I'm going boxing this time. It lent me to 1618 01:53:23.880 --> 01:53:27.479 box wisely. And then I remember many a time I got caught with these 1619 01:53:27.479 --> 01:53:30.239 big shots and before instead of trying to box through it, which is that 1620 01:53:30.319 --> 01:53:34.319 first time because you think you're invincible, but really you're going really slow and 1621 01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:38.439 that and next time, bang, I got it with a shot, and 1622 01:53:38.479 --> 01:53:40.359 you think, right, that was an odd shot. Then you know, 1623 01:53:40.479 --> 01:53:42.920 to cover up your know to jab off, you know, just spit your 1624 01:53:42.920 --> 01:53:45.960 gum shield out, because then they got stopped. Give you a few seconds, 1625 01:53:45.000 --> 01:53:47.840 get that gum sealed clean, because you have to do enamateurs, put 1626 01:53:47.840 --> 01:53:51.720 it in and then get you buy yourself time or you learn thrilled on and 1627 01:53:51.720 --> 01:53:56.560 then until you're right, made back together now and go. So I learned 1628 01:53:56.560 --> 01:54:00.560 from having that that shock that first when you see the lightning, you feel, 1629 01:54:00.760 --> 01:54:04.960 you feel sick, you feel buzzy, yeah yeah, and then now 1630 01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:10.560 and that that's also happened to me in the Civilian aspect where I had a 1631 01:54:10.920 --> 01:54:15.720 fight and and civilian street, you know, drunk and fighting all the rest 1632 01:54:15.760 --> 01:54:18.560 of it. And I remember me and I'm like, wow, is it 1633 01:54:18.640 --> 01:54:23.000 to me that odd? I'm getting older. I can feel these shocks. 1634 01:54:23.039 --> 01:54:25.600 That's me. I'm going to go out now. And I remember, right, 1635 01:54:25.680 --> 01:54:29.159 I've got to think what I've got to do. And then I was 1636 01:54:29.359 --> 01:54:32.000 My dad used to say, in the worst case, when I was getting 1637 01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:36.359 bullied, doesn't matter how big that person is biting, sink your teeth enter 1638 01:54:36.479 --> 01:54:41.560 him. And I remember doing that when there's a little kid and this bully, 1639 01:54:41.640 --> 01:54:44.600 and boy did he stop bullying me then? And he could beat me 1640 01:54:44.640 --> 01:54:45.960 up. He could carry on beating me up, you know he went, 1641 01:54:46.079 --> 01:54:49.239 but you know he'd have a bite and he just wasn't worth it. And 1642 01:54:49.279 --> 01:54:54.000 I remember getting it in the civilian fight. It was actually in Australia. 1643 01:54:54.319 --> 01:55:00.279 That's just another story. Basically, I I was going I was going through 1644 01:55:00.319 --> 01:55:03.399 a bitter divorce, so I was, you know, I wasn't ready for 1645 01:55:03.760 --> 01:55:09.960 the argument of anyone. But it was actually sheep shearers and it was a 1646 01:55:09.960 --> 01:55:12.920 sheep shearer's wedding going on, and I was having a drink in this hotel 1647 01:55:13.399 --> 01:55:15.000 and they had all food on. I didn't know this food was part of 1648 01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:18.680 their buffy. So I started setting these little sausages and pineapple cheese on a 1649 01:55:18.720 --> 01:55:21.680 stick and stuff like that because I thought it was a freebie. And then 1650 01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:25.840 some of this girl come over says, you know that's not you shan't be 1651 01:55:25.920 --> 01:55:29.720 having I said, I didn't know, but then she starts gobbing off at 1652 01:55:29.760 --> 01:55:31.800 me. Now I'm just going for a bit of divorce. So I wasn't 1653 01:55:31.800 --> 01:55:36.079 happy with me anyway. So I get a mouthful. There were I think 1654 01:55:36.119 --> 01:55:40.760 of it, and next minute this guy come across and he was he was 1655 01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:45.159 It was actually sheep shearers and it was a sheep shearers like stagg theoror wedding 1656 01:55:45.359 --> 01:55:51.000 something and they were like Popeye. Their arms just like the forearms are massive 1657 01:55:51.000 --> 01:55:55.520 because they're picking up the sheep. And yeah, and this guy come up 1658 01:55:55.560 --> 01:55:58.199 to me, I thought, and I was with her. I thought, 1659 01:55:58.239 --> 01:56:00.439 God, almighty Year is going to come up. He could tell he was 1660 01:56:00.479 --> 01:56:03.239 just going to come across and start. So as he's coming close to me, 1661 01:56:03.760 --> 01:56:05.439 it's not good, it's not right. I thought, right, I've 1662 01:56:05.439 --> 01:56:09.319 got to get the first punch. And they tried bang and he just starts 1663 01:56:09.319 --> 01:56:14.439 fighting. Luckily it got broke up. But in Australia they have they always 1664 01:56:14.439 --> 01:56:16.840 have a bar. So we left the hotel bar, but they always seem 1665 01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:19.920 to have the bars in the basement, and in the basement they all go 1666 01:56:20.000 --> 01:56:23.720 gambling. So when we left, I thought, oh, the basement bar 1667 01:56:23.840 --> 01:56:26.279 is on. Let's go down there. Now that's open un til two in 1668 01:56:26.279 --> 01:56:29.479 the morning. So me and these lads we went down there. And then 1669 01:56:29.600 --> 01:56:31.800 everybody leaves at two o'clock in the morning, so we left and then at 1670 01:56:31.840 --> 01:56:35.159 the same time these guys left. So by the time this time, they'd 1671 01:56:35.159 --> 01:56:38.720 had a good drink and there was a lot of them and they were like, 1672 01:56:38.880 --> 01:56:42.760 there's that guy, and I'm gonna do it anyway. They thought, 1673 01:56:42.800 --> 01:56:44.960 well, I can't be bothered, and I just said, come on, 1674 01:56:45.039 --> 01:56:46.840 then, I'm gonna get kicking out of at least I try and fight. 1675 01:56:47.159 --> 01:56:50.079 Yeah, they starts say to me, and I saw that then that lightning 1676 01:56:50.159 --> 01:56:53.520 again. I covered up like in the box and I thought, right, 1677 01:56:54.079 --> 01:56:57.359 I can't box out of this. There's no referees to stop it. I'm 1678 01:56:57.439 --> 01:57:00.239 just going to get I'm just waiting to get passed out in them. I 1679 01:57:00.239 --> 01:57:02.159 thought, I've got to do something, and I went back to me when 1680 01:57:02.159 --> 01:57:05.239 I was a kid, right bite him and he was that big. I 1681 01:57:05.279 --> 01:57:10.880 remember he had a white shirt on and I bit his tit. I was 1682 01:57:10.880 --> 01:57:14.800 in his chest and I was like a dog. I've tried im thinking I'm 1683 01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:16.960 trying to put my teeth together, and I was thinking, fucking hell, 1684 01:57:17.079 --> 01:57:21.239 he's a he's a he's a muscular because I was trying to connect him, 1685 01:57:21.439 --> 01:57:26.479 and all I remember him saying is a n weird. He said that that's 1686 01:57:26.560 --> 01:57:30.840 biting me. And all these mates moved away because the blood on his ship 1687 01:57:30.880 --> 01:57:34.159 they must have stabbed something. Everybody's just in shock. And then I just 1688 01:57:34.199 --> 01:57:36.800 started walking. And then when they all come together, they were just going 1689 01:57:36.840 --> 01:57:41.720 to pile on me and had me and no kidding you, the guy who 1690 01:57:41.800 --> 01:57:45.319 was with he got the bouncers and a bouncer pulled up in the car. 1691 01:57:45.760 --> 01:57:48.159 He drammed me and he go get in the fucking car. This Australians got 1692 01:57:48.159 --> 01:57:54.199 me in the car and got me away. Oh God almighty. Anyway, 1693 01:57:54.239 --> 01:57:56.760 I don't know where I come in that story from, but it's all come 1694 01:57:57.399 --> 01:57:59.880 that all came from the boxing. Yeah, it teaches your lesson. So 1695 01:58:00.640 --> 01:58:03.640 in life there's always lessons, so you know you learn from them, don't 1696 01:58:03.680 --> 01:58:08.000 you. So that helped me out to a couple of times. Well, 1697 01:58:08.159 --> 01:58:11.880 what what's update? I have one more question for Melvin. Melvin, were 1698 01:58:11.920 --> 01:58:16.760 you ever lucky enough to get your hands on those Rolex explorers they gave says 1699 01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:20.760 members, Yeah, got I've got I've got Rolex. Yeah, I got 1700 01:58:20.760 --> 01:58:27.399 a Rolex, I've got Braitlyn and I've got Braitlyn, a Rolex and ad 1701 01:58:27.560 --> 01:58:32.760 Squadron from a smaller, smaller company. Yeah, I've got a discording one, 1702 01:58:32.960 --> 01:58:36.840 a Breitln and a Rolex. I could get me a book. I'd 1703 01:58:36.880 --> 01:58:40.319 have to nip downstairs and get them if you want me to. Yeah. 1704 01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:44.840 Like so those Essay Yes Explorer explorers that they made for Rolex are like super 1705 01:58:45.039 --> 01:58:49.359 like highly sought after. They go for like forty fifty dollars. Wow. 1706 01:58:49.520 --> 01:58:54.000 Yeah yeah, yeah, because I got a couple of kids, so I 1707 01:58:54.039 --> 01:58:57.000 felt, right, I'll have one. And at the time you're like, 1708 01:58:57.119 --> 01:58:59.920 wow, this has cost me aiano and that's a lot of money and it 1709 01:59:00.039 --> 01:59:02.760 and you're in and that. But then they unique, they just got your 1710 01:59:02.880 --> 01:59:08.159 zap number run and they've just got you know, personalized and yeah, they're 1711 01:59:08.199 --> 01:59:11.000 going for an awful lot of money. If you want me go get one. 1712 01:59:11.039 --> 01:59:14.039 Have you got time that can just run downstairs? Well yeah, yeah, 1713 01:59:14.800 --> 01:59:17.800 yeah, okay, I'll just nit down. Ok uh. And guys 1714 01:59:17.960 --> 01:59:23.359 out there, if you are so inclined, please check out our Patreon. 1715 01:59:23.560 --> 01:59:28.560 There is a LinkedIn the description. You subscribe for five dollars a month and 1716 01:59:28.680 --> 01:59:32.199 that gets you add free episodes. All the team House episodes you get ad 1717 01:59:32.239 --> 01:59:36.560 free, and we do some bonus episodes on there too, and we really 1718 01:59:36.560 --> 01:59:41.920 appreciate all of you guys going there and supporting the channel. You also get 1719 01:59:41.960 --> 01:59:44.960 the eyes On episodes for free too, free right, yeah, I should 1720 01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:48.880 mention that you know our our sister podcast, eyes On with Andy Milburn and 1721 01:59:48.960 --> 01:59:54.920 Jason Lyons. You'll get all those episodes add free as well. I also 1722 01:59:54.920 --> 01:59:59.880 want to give a shout out to Casa Carabeo Cigars. My buddy over there 1723 02:00:00.319 --> 02:00:03.920 make some awesome sticks. I hope you guys will go check it out castacarabeou 1724 02:00:04.000 --> 02:00:11.960 dot com. Hey mao, Melvin, Yeah, so got this is this 1725 02:00:12.000 --> 02:00:17.600 one? This is the Brightly. Push that mic up a little bit? 1726 02:00:19.800 --> 02:00:24.920 There you go? Sorry? Can you mean? Okay? This is the 1727 02:00:24.920 --> 02:00:30.359 Brightling and you can see the that's just bad shirt. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1728 02:00:30.399 --> 02:00:33.640 yeah, yeah. There it's got your number and everything back. That's 1729 02:00:33.720 --> 02:00:42.279 cool. Yeah so that's the Breaklyn. That's awesome. And then this is 1730 02:00:42.319 --> 02:00:47.760 the rolex mm hmm wow. And then you've got all the on the back, 1731 02:00:47.800 --> 02:00:55.600 can you yep, the beautiful beautiful watch. Yeah yeah, it's got 1732 02:00:55.640 --> 02:00:58.720 you number and everything. I'll tell you what the first time I had this, 1733 02:00:59.000 --> 02:01:01.760 I wore this watchword it. I had a drink. When I got 1734 02:01:01.760 --> 02:01:06.199 back, I took it off and then I dropped it and I smashed the 1735 02:01:06.279 --> 02:01:12.680 glass. So and cost a lot of money. And then this is a 1736 02:01:13.680 --> 02:01:19.800 squadron one personally for the squad and on the back you could see that the 1737 02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:26.319 dagger. You know they're not the dagger there, the squadron squadron Yeah yeah, 1738 02:01:26.359 --> 02:01:29.319 yeah yeah yeah. Can you see the badge there it's in black and 1739 02:01:30.159 --> 02:01:32.319 can't really see it. I know what you're talking about, because yeah, 1740 02:01:32.600 --> 02:01:35.720 so they've got that badge on because it's just this is just for the squadron. 1741 02:01:36.600 --> 02:01:43.199 So yeah. So but these as I say, I'll never sal them. 1742 02:01:43.199 --> 02:01:46.159 I know, blokes have come, a few blokes have had gone through 1743 02:01:46.199 --> 02:01:49.960 bad times and then they've sold them and they've you know, I know they've 1744 02:01:50.000 --> 02:01:56.840 gone up in price and they collectors aren'ts but yeah, and probably must probably 1745 02:01:56.840 --> 02:02:02.079 get me out burgled now by shooting them. They And then you also have 1746 02:02:02.520 --> 02:02:06.159 your own YouTube channel that's launching. Do you want to tell folks a little 1747 02:02:06.199 --> 02:02:12.039 bit about that. Yeah, I'm opening a YouTube channel going started next week 1748 02:02:12.079 --> 02:02:15.880 and we're going to start doing lots of stuff there and doing stuff on resilience 1749 02:02:15.920 --> 02:02:19.760 and just getting talking about live and having talked and also doing a lot of 1750 02:02:19.800 --> 02:02:28.000 fitness challenges there. And just because I do believe like it's mentality, it's 1751 02:02:28.039 --> 02:02:30.840 consistency, and I'm all for work or play or I like go out, 1752 02:02:30.880 --> 02:02:33.600 I like have a beer. I always have done. I think multiley people 1753 02:02:33.600 --> 02:02:36.399 are are the same. But I still enjoying my fat. Still make sure 1754 02:02:36.399 --> 02:02:41.840 I keep myself fit as well, so you know, and that's whether it's 1755 02:02:41.880 --> 02:02:46.159 in the gym, whether it's running, whatever type of exercise is tabbing, 1756 02:02:46.279 --> 02:02:50.439 especially over the hills, and I like even the other day I just went 1757 02:02:50.439 --> 02:02:55.720 through. My wife is doing the Manchester Marathon, so she was practicing and 1758 02:02:55.760 --> 02:03:00.479 she did a theaty kilometer run for part of the train and build up for 1759 02:03:00.560 --> 02:03:04.000 the manchester Mouth and in a couple of weeks time, and so she asked 1760 02:03:04.000 --> 02:03:08.199 me go on the training run with the especially supposed to been running with somebody 1761 02:03:08.239 --> 02:03:11.039 else and now they drinking that before and last minute they couldn't do it. 1762 02:03:11.079 --> 02:03:14.279 So she says, well you come, yeah, because she goes quite slow. 1763 02:03:14.640 --> 02:03:16.439 So I did that, and I thought to myself, I've done theater 1764 02:03:16.520 --> 02:03:20.159 cometers. I feel all right, and it's such a lovely day. So 1765 02:03:20.279 --> 02:03:24.399 then I ended up just jogging a bit more and I got to forty. 1766 02:03:24.760 --> 02:03:27.920 The most of jogged recently was fifty. I thought, oh, I'll go 1767 02:03:27.960 --> 02:03:30.239 for the fifty, and I got to the fifty. Now what was intending 1768 02:03:30.279 --> 02:03:35.039 to due? I'm sixty in December. In my mind, I just thought 1769 02:03:35.079 --> 02:03:38.640 of it one morning. I thought, right, I want to do sixty 1770 02:03:39.760 --> 02:03:45.520 at sixty and six, so that's sixty kilometers sixty years old in six hours. 1771 02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:47.279 I said, I want to do that on my birthday. But the 1772 02:03:47.359 --> 02:03:51.319 other day I did is about in fact last week, last Thursday, and 1773 02:03:53.000 --> 02:03:56.960 I got to fifty kilometers and I thought, oh, I could get in 1774 02:03:57.079 --> 02:04:00.840 the six hours here, and so then I thought I saw it, I 1775 02:04:00.880 --> 02:04:02.600 might as well do the sixty. So that just came out the blue. 1776 02:04:02.720 --> 02:04:06.960 I was going to do it in December, and then I just did it 1777 02:04:08.079 --> 02:04:11.000 the other day. So I did six kilometers, which is like thirty eight 1778 02:04:11.079 --> 02:04:15.760 miles. Awesome. Yes, so that's a lot. And even on these 1779 02:04:15.800 --> 02:04:18.880 knees and everything, and so you can you can still get changed. So 1780 02:04:19.000 --> 02:04:23.640 I just enjoyed just doing stuff and just different challenges and stuff like that. 1781 02:04:23.960 --> 02:04:28.640 Yeah, and we'll have a link down the description to his YouTube channel, 1782 02:04:30.640 --> 02:04:32.600 Melvin. I mean, this has been a really fun conversation, man. 1783 02:04:32.720 --> 02:04:35.800 Is anything that I failed to ask or anything that you wanted to put out 1784 02:04:35.840 --> 02:04:41.000 there that we haven't covered? No, Yeah, You've just put my Instagram 1785 02:04:41.000 --> 02:04:42.960 and then the YouTube because I'm going to do a lot more things. And 1786 02:04:43.000 --> 02:04:46.399 I've also got a friend, he's a sevy friend from Stoke. He's younger 1787 02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:53.159 and he's really good on the YouTube and the skits. So we do a 1788 02:04:53.199 --> 02:04:55.920 bit of fun as well, you know, because, like as I said, 1789 02:04:56.000 --> 02:04:59.479 sense humors part of the military, so it's not just deadly serious and 1790 02:04:59.520 --> 02:05:02.039 about talk about that. Yeah, it's happening to laugh about things and just 1791 02:05:02.039 --> 02:05:05.319 too common everything what happens throughout the day, you know, the mistakes, 1792 02:05:05.319 --> 02:05:09.479 what you do and you just got to laugh at and mind you because we 1793 02:05:09.520 --> 02:05:12.760 all we're all mess up and there's always something what you know, pisses you 1794 02:05:12.840 --> 02:05:15.760 off and you just have to have a laugh about whatever it is. Where 1795 02:05:15.760 --> 02:05:18.640 if it's road rage or something up and it's it's just it's part of live. 1796 02:05:19.680 --> 02:05:24.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's And honestly I think that you know, 1797 02:05:25.079 --> 02:05:28.319 when you talked about resilience, like a sense of humor and you know, 1798 02:05:28.359 --> 02:05:30.159 like taking the piss out of guys like that's all part of it. 1799 02:05:30.199 --> 02:05:34.640 Like if a guy can't handle like guys on his team taking the piss out 1800 02:05:34.640 --> 02:05:38.399 of them, Yeah, yeah, then it makes the guys on the team 1801 02:05:38.600 --> 02:05:43.119 question. I think sometimes we'll like can we rely on this guy under pressure 1802 02:05:43.119 --> 02:05:46.920 if you get so like spun up over this little thing? Right, Yeah, 1803 02:05:47.159 --> 02:05:50.279 they're definitely. Yeah, it's it's that's part of it, is'to it? 1804 02:05:50.319 --> 02:05:56.399 And I think that's why part this election process they see that you know, 1805 02:05:56.520 --> 02:05:58.800 you've all got to be able to give and take it on the team. 1806 02:05:58.840 --> 02:06:00.920 If you don't want to give it, don't take it. Yeah, 1807 02:06:00.039 --> 02:06:03.119 some people have been more serious enough is then you know when you when you 1808 02:06:03.239 --> 02:06:11.960 with mate, you know what what buttons to pushing that there sta stay yeah, 1809 02:06:12.600 --> 02:06:16.560 yeah, so all right, yeah, thank you, Melvin, And 1810 02:06:16.880 --> 02:06:20.560 who do we have on Monday? On Monday, we have Jeff Man who 1811 02:06:20.800 --> 02:06:25.880 is actually, I think he stood up one of the first, if not 1812 02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:30.239 the first n s A Red teams, so one of the first, uh 1813 02:06:30.680 --> 02:06:39.640 you know, teams to actually be adversarial testing intration testing. And then and 1814 02:06:39.640 --> 02:06:43.720 then next Friday, we have Jonah Mendez coming on who's a c I A 1815 02:06:43.880 --> 02:06:47.680 disguise officer and she has a new book coming out so or actually it is 1816 02:06:47.720 --> 02:06:51.920 out now, so we'll be talking to her on Monday. So look forward 1817 02:06:51.920 --> 02:06:55.840 to seeing all you guys. Then, Melvin again, thank you for spending 1818 02:06:56.359 --> 02:06:59.600 Friday evening with us. Man, this has been really fun. Yeah, 1819 02:06:59.640 --> 02:07:01.560 it's been phone Jack, Dave, thanks Faminism, and thanks Team House. 1820 02:07:02.159 --> 02:07:06.439 Yeah, thank you, and America. We'll see all of you guys out 1821 02:07:06.479 --> 02:07:11.520 there on Monday. Take care and let us know when your YouTube channels up 1822 02:07:11.560 --> 02:07:15.199 so we can plug it right. We'll do find stup mate. Also, 1823 02:07:15.399 --> 02:07:17.359 Melvin, when you write your book and you come for like a book tour 1824 02:07:17.399 --> 02:07:20.439 and you're in the States, maybe we'd love to have you in studio too. 1825 02:07:20.439 --> 02:07:25.279 It'd be great. Yeah, yeah, great, that'd be fantastic. 1826 02:07:25.640 --> 02:07:28.680 Yeah, yeah, you're welcome anytime hit hit us up when you're coming through 1827 02:07:28.680 --> 02:07:33.119 town. Appreciate that. I really do, absolutely, But I wouldn't be 1828 02:07:33.119 --> 02:07:39.720 having that. I'll be watching web. A drink is inside of stuff. 1829 02:07:43.640 --> 02:07:46.199 That's that's that's a quick lesson you learn. And range of battalion is if 1830 02:07:46.239 --> 02:07:50.600 you open a can of coat or if you open like a can of soda, 1831 02:07:51.039 --> 02:07:54.920 you never put it down. If you put it down, you don't 1832 02:07:55.000 --> 02:07:59.199 drink. That was that was a habit I quit the day I left the 1833 02:07:59.319 --> 02:08:03.479 Army, the day I quit dipping. Yeah, yeah, could average how 1834 02:08:03.520 --> 02:08:09.159 many guys say, in your squad and ranges or whatever dip? Yeah? 1835 02:08:09.199 --> 02:08:15.439 Two thirds probably. Yeah, I'd say, yeah, like it's it's it's 1836 02:08:15.439 --> 02:08:18.319 never been banned or is has he ever been? In ranger school they banned 1837 02:08:18.319 --> 02:08:22.039 it, but not in the Army as a whole. So in ranger school, 1838 02:08:22.039 --> 02:08:26.439 what guys would do instead is they would take the coffee from their m 1839 02:08:26.560 --> 02:08:30.560 r. E s because it's ground coffee, and they would pack that just 1840 02:08:30.600 --> 02:08:35.880 so it have something in there. Yeah, it becomes like a performance drug, 1841 02:08:35.920 --> 02:08:37.600 I think in some ways where it's like, you know, you're doing. 1842 02:08:37.680 --> 02:08:41.079 You're up all night. The controls it keeps you guys who are just 1843 02:08:41.119 --> 02:08:45.960 like hitting the nicotine to like keep them like going and focused and everything. 1844 02:08:46.760 --> 02:08:50.239 Yeah, it's amazing. But I remember going to p X though. I 1845 02:08:50.279 --> 02:08:54.119 got that got me on the git meet. I've never had that before. 1846 02:08:54.159 --> 02:08:58.119 This was years ago in the eighties. You know, you shove the the 1847 02:08:58.560 --> 02:09:01.960 jit jick beef in that. That was brilliant. Yes, I love it 1848 02:09:03.000 --> 02:09:05.680 now. Yeah, well chicken not sent it and all that sort of stuff. 1849 02:09:05.760 --> 02:09:11.239 It's funny because you mentioned like the you know, like the tabooze and 1850 02:09:11.319 --> 02:09:13.960 you know, the dip and stuff like that. But it was Phil was 1851 02:09:13.000 --> 02:09:18.000 and Phil Campion who's telling us how he he brewed a spot of tea on 1852 02:09:18.119 --> 02:09:20.560 target while he's like, it's like, well that's something in America like that 1853 02:09:20.840 --> 02:09:26.319 to us is so you know ultimately British. Yeah, while he's in a 1854 02:09:26.399 --> 02:09:31.399 hide or you know, on a support position, he's brewing tea. Oh 1855 02:09:31.520 --> 02:09:35.000 yeah, the Breues that's always tea all the time. Bre you guys has 1856 02:09:35.000 --> 02:09:41.960 always coffee one it yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So but the world now 1857 02:09:41.960 --> 02:09:46.680 it's all rappuccinos whatever, you know, bunk is it it? Yeah? 1858 02:09:46.760 --> 02:09:50.439 Everyone's and even here in the States, even with the tea like they church 1859 02:09:50.479 --> 02:09:54.479 it up. You know, they've got the like the chilatte like, yeah, 1860 02:09:54.960 --> 02:09:56.880 you can't just get a tea or a coffee, like there's gotta be 1861 02:09:56.960 --> 02:10:01.000 something, Nancy. Now, just just I mean normal tea. I don't 1862 02:10:01.000 --> 02:10:03.800 want to all this and give out all this stuff. Just normal. Just 1863 02:10:03.840 --> 02:10:07.520 give me tea just as it is normal. We say, NATO NATO standard. 1864 02:10:09.880 --> 02:10:13.239 All right, all right, Melvin, we'll see you next time. 1865 02:10:13.279 --> 02:10:16.560 You know, let us know when you're that book's coming out, and we'll 1866 02:10:16.600 --> 02:10:20.399 be happy to have you on here again. And uh, we'll see all 1867 02:10:20.479 --> 02:10:22.800 you guys out there next time. I