1 00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:19,519 Welcome to episode seventy one of Get Out Alive. What is typically a bi 2 00:00:19,559 --> 00:00:23,559 weekly podcast about animal tax but today we have a very special episode with an 3 00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:27,719 even more special guest. I'm your host, Ashley, and this may be 4 00:00:27,839 --> 00:00:32,240 my favorite episode yet because I had the honor of sitting down with Si Montgomery, 5 00:00:32,359 --> 00:00:35,520 who has written many books such as Soul of an Octopus, How to 6 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,119 Be a Good Creature, Spell the Tiger, and most recently of Time in 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,520 Turtles, Mending the World's Shell by Shattered Shell. If you've been listening to 8 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,719 this podcast for a while, you may remember our sixty fourth episode in which 9 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:50,759 we discussed size book about man eating tigers and the Shunderbuns. And although I 10 00:00:50,799 --> 00:00:53,439 did ask her some questions about her time there and what it was like looking 11 00:00:53,439 --> 00:00:57,320 for tigers that actively hunt people, we talk about so much more, especially 12 00:00:57,359 --> 00:01:00,280 about turtles, which is a type of animal we do not often get to 13 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,480 talk about on this podcast because they aren't out there attacking people. But before 14 00:01:03,519 --> 00:01:07,040 we get into the interview, I just want to note a few things. 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,480 So first of all, before we started recording, I was talking to say 16 00:01:10,519 --> 00:01:12,280 about one of her books that I loved, called The Hawk's Way, which 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,560 is about her time practicing falconry here in New Hampshire. So we touch on 18 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,319 that a little bit during the interview. So that's what that's about. Just 19 00:01:19,359 --> 00:01:22,760 a note on that. And then there's also a few times near the beginning 20 00:01:22,799 --> 00:01:26,560 that you'll hear what sounds like an email notification, So I apologize in advance. 21 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,000 I try to cut them out where I could, but it only happens 22 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,000 a handful of times. But that is all I had. So let's get 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:38,879 into my interview with Si Montgomery. My name is Si Montgomery. I go 24 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:45,840 by she her. I'm an author of over thirty five I think it's up 25 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:53,319 to thirty six, maybe thirty seven books, and I get described as a 26 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:57,000 writer adventurer. I would say those are very appt titles. I've seen you 27 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,000 described as a naturalist as well, and I think that's also extremely fitting. 28 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:04,159 Well, thank you. I wear lots of hats. Yeah, So what 29 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:06,920 was your path to becoming an author, Like, did you always want to 30 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,639 do that or did it just like kind of you fell into it. Well, 31 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,439 when I was little, and I'm talking about before I could even read, 32 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,400 I wanted to work with animals. Animals were always my people. I 33 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:23,599 never identified as a little girl, and in fact, as soon as I 34 00:02:23,599 --> 00:02:28,439 could speak, I informed my parents that I was actually a horse. My 35 00:02:28,599 --> 00:02:31,560 mother was horrified and took me to the pediatrician. I almost said veterinarian. 36 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:37,199 Took me to the pediatricure and he said, don't worry, She'll grow out 37 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:39,599 of it, and I did when I realized actually I was a dog. 38 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:46,280 So my big problem growing up was everyone was so eager to teach me to 39 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:50,719 be a little girl, and I had no interest in this. And finally, 40 00:02:51,439 --> 00:02:57,360 when I was like six, my parents brought home a Scottish terrier puppy 41 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:01,840 named Molly, and even though she was younger than me, she matured faster 42 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,960 than I did. And I could see that, and I apprenticed myself to 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:13,960 her. I had found my older sister slash mentor slash Muse, and my 44 00:03:14,199 --> 00:03:19,000 dream was to live in the woods in a hollow tree and have her teach 45 00:03:19,039 --> 00:03:23,000 me all the secrets of the animals. And although Molly has gone now, 46 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:28,520 I keep her picture on my desk and I'm pretty much living that dream of 47 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:34,240 apprenticing myself to all these different animals who have been so generous in showing me 48 00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:38,800 their secrets. But as far as writing, I thought I would be a 49 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:46,199 veterinarian until I began to read. My father began sharing with me articles in 50 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:52,039 the New York Times when I was little that were about animals. This is 51 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,120 just when I'm starting to read, and he helped me read them. Well, 52 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,520 what were all the stories about in the New York Times in the nineteen 53 00:03:59,639 --> 00:04:03,439 sixty when I was learning to read. They were all about animals going extinct. 54 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:10,280 They were being polluted out of their environments. They were being crowded out 55 00:04:10,319 --> 00:04:14,840 of their world by our huge numbers. They were being overhunted. It was 56 00:04:15,039 --> 00:04:19,279 entirely our fault. And it was then, as a small child, that 57 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:25,720 I realized that possibly as a writer, I might be able to do even 58 00:04:25,759 --> 00:04:29,879 more good for my animal friends. And I could be if I became a 59 00:04:29,959 --> 00:04:32,360 veterinarian. So that is what I did. Yeah, you know, I 60 00:04:32,399 --> 00:04:34,879 had the same experience growing up, not where I thought that I was like 61 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,399 an animal, but I definitely identified more with animals than people per se. 62 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,639 But I feel like when you say, when you tell someone as a kid 63 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,800 that you love animals, it's often okay, cool, We're going to put 64 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,040 you in this veterinarian box and there's no other options for you. You know, 65 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:54,439 I kind of wasn't because you know, I was born in nineteen fifty 66 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:59,680 eight and actually women didn't even go into veterinary practice very much back then. 67 00:05:00,399 --> 00:05:04,279 But that never bothered me. I heard about, you know, so many 68 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:12,240 people my age women growing up, looked at the professions of folks working with 69 00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:16,279 animals, and they saw Jack Gusteau like a guy, and they saw you 70 00:05:16,319 --> 00:05:23,680 know, researchers traveling to African South America exploring the jungles, and it was 71 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:30,040 usually some guy. But I guess because I didn't identify particularly as a human 72 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,319 to start with, the sex of the humans doing the thing I wanted to 73 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:40,240 do didn't bother me. One bit. Did not apply to me as far 74 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:46,160 as I was concerned. And I mean, I still think being a veterinarian 75 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,240 is one of the highest and best uses of a human life. But I 76 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:56,360 guess one of my talents was I like, didn't pay attention to anybody who 77 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,040 tried to put me in a box or told me that I couldn't be what 78 00:05:59,879 --> 00:06:03,600 I wanted to be. Well, your most recent book of Time and Turtles, 79 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,560 Mending the World Shell by Shattered Shell, it's about turtles, their biology, 80 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,399 and what it takes to rehab them, among many other things. So 81 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,839 can you tell us why you chose to write about turtles and why write about 82 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,480 them now? Well, my last really big heart book that took me years 83 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:24,639 to research and I totally immersed myself in, was called The Soul of an 84 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:32,160 Octopus and the subtitle was a surprising exploration into the wonder of consciousness. Well, 85 00:06:32,959 --> 00:06:38,279 for this book, I felt it was time to do another deep dive, 86 00:06:39,319 --> 00:06:44,079 and I thought I would look at what is considered the other deep question 87 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,759 in philosophy other than consciousness, and that is time. And at this point 88 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:56,839 I had crossed the line into my sixties. And it's then that you start 89 00:06:57,399 --> 00:07:02,680 thinking about time in a different way because you have a bunch of it accrued. 90 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,279 A lot of people feel like your time is running out like sands in 91 00:07:09,319 --> 00:07:15,920 an hourglass. I haven't really felt that, But the turtles have taught me 92 00:07:16,079 --> 00:07:20,240 so much about the nature of time. And little did I know, though, 93 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:26,160 that I'd be living the stories in this book during the pandemic, when 94 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,879 time for most of us just stopped, but turtle time kept on going, 95 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:40,040 and they helped me to think through into the mystery of time, and they 96 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,839 were the perfect guides, you know, since, after all, you know, 97 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:46,920 they're ancient creatures. They rose at the same time as the dinosaurs, 98 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:54,839 they survived the asteroid impact, they survived the glacial ice ages. They've survived 99 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,600 so much, they know so much, they live so long, they have 100 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,920 excellent, long memories, and they show us that there's nothing wrong with being 101 00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:11,759 old. And I'm kind of proud that I share being old with some of 102 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:18,519 my favorite individuals who happen to be turtles. One of my closest friends is 103 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:24,240 a turtle who is probably my age, and many turtles live to one hundred 104 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:28,160 or more. The oldest known turtle lived two hundred and eighty eight. Wow, 105 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:33,720 just got better and better with every year. Yeah. I always jokingly 106 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:37,200 say that time is a social construct and have never felt that so hard than 107 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,799 after reading your book, especially when you talked about how animals process time differently, 108 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:46,399 which I had never considered, and you pointed out that like turtles process 109 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:52,399 time or like visually slower than we do. So although we can see a 110 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:56,360 car, turtles might see it as just a blur and they don't even realize 111 00:08:56,399 --> 00:08:58,320 that it's a car coming at them. And I had never considered maybe that's 112 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,679 why they get run over so often. Yeah, becauseides people being cruel, 113 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:07,600 obviously, and also they can't. Many turtles can't move extremely fast. Some 114 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,559 can't. Soft shells, finy soft shells can run faster than a ten year 115 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:16,639 old doing the one hundred yard dash, But most turtles, there's not a 116 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,159 whole lot that they could do, even if they could see the cars. 117 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:24,159 But they can't. And earlier, as you and I were talking about falconry, 118 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:30,679 it was when I was researching that book and started taking falconry that I 119 00:09:30,759 --> 00:09:37,519 began to realize the different flicker fusion ratios of different animals. I did not 120 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:43,879 know until my falconry instructor, Nancy Cowen, told me that while we look 121 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,679 at a hummingbird's wings beating and see a blur, other animals, including hawks, 122 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:56,240 can process that visual information so differently that they see the hummingbird's individual wing 123 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:03,080 strokes. But it's on the opposite end of that spectrum where we would expect 124 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,879 and in fact do find turtles. Turtles who are hit on the road probably 125 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:13,240 never saw the car that hit them. So your book is about more than 126 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,679 just turtles, of course, so you talk about things like traditional Jewish burial 127 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,360 practices, how insects perceived time, like we were just talking about, and 128 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,039 even what it takes to be a transgender person. So were there any tangents 129 00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:28,080 or facts that you really wanted to fit into this book but you couldn't. 130 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,200 Yeah, Actually, there are always are things that end up on the cutting 131 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:39,720 room floor. There were some stories such as Gosh, one time, Matt 132 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:43,720 Patterson, the artist and one of the main characters in the book, and 133 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:50,600 I went out and we tracked box turtles through the woods with radio telemetry with 134 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:58,240 these wonderful mess too sit scientists, But it didn't like fit in the narrative 135 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:03,720 of the book, even though it was a wonderful story, and I took 136 00:11:03,759 --> 00:11:07,799 copious notes, and these people who certainly deserve a ton of credit for the 137 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:11,639 fascinating things that they are doing, that never made it in. There was 138 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:18,240 a concept I wanted to discuss further also, which is a Jewish mystical concept 139 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,440 that I learned about from my husband, Howard Mansfield, who has written extensively 140 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:30,600 about time and about repair, and that is called to koon and he wrote 141 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:35,600 so beautifully about this, I just felt like I couldn't step on on his 142 00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:41,759 words, but this knowledge really helped me as I wrote my book. There's 143 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:48,639 this concept that in the beginning of the world, light from God spilled as 144 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:54,159 if from a bucket, and it's our job to pick up the spilled light 145 00:11:54,679 --> 00:12:01,639 and restore it. And in this way, our job is to constantly repair 146 00:12:01,759 --> 00:12:07,480 the broken world. So the idea of repairing our broken world, which seems 147 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:13,639 like a very good use of a life right now, it goes back hundreds 148 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:20,279 or thousands of years. People have wanted to do this and recognized the urgency 149 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:26,240 of repairing the world for a long time. And so we're joining a great 150 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:33,320 tradition when we make our attempt to mend a world we see as shattered. 151 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:39,480 Whether we are mending broken turtle shells, whether we're trying to restore the peace 152 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:46,200 of dark night skies, whether we're trying to bring families or nations or the 153 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:54,240 globe together, we're all united in this effort to make the world whole and 154 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:01,200 perfect again. That was so good. It's so hard for me to be 155 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:03,679 like, Okay, here's another question after that was so beautiful. But my 156 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:07,960 gosh, well, I guess this ties in. So one of my favorite 157 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,000 parts of the book was when you're part of a team rescuing stranded sea turtles 158 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,759 in the middle of winter, which obviously is part of this whole like mending 159 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:18,679 the world back together by helping in danger species. So can you tell us 160 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,360 more about that experience and why it was so important? Yeah, Oh, 161 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,360 my gosh, and it was. It was a blest first of all because 162 00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:31,200 it seemed so unlikely. We do not expect here in New England to be 163 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,960 seeing turtles on a beach. We do not expect here in New England to 164 00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:41,080 be seeing turtles in the dead of winter during a snowstorm. And yet this 165 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,039 is exactly what Matt and I were preparing to do on a day in which 166 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,519 all of power was knocked out in our part of New Hampshire, and we 167 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:56,840 drove down to the cape to join our friends Alexia Bell and Natasha Nowick and 168 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:03,159 other friends from the Turtle Rescue League to who work with the Autumn Wealthleet, 169 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:09,000 people who have been rescuing turtles who get cold, stunned and wash up on 170 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:15,080 the beaches in the winter. So this is increasingly problem for turtles because of 171 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:20,080 climate change, warming faster than any other body of water in the world. 172 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,919 The Gulf of main. The area around the cape is warming so quickly that 173 00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:33,639 turtles who are swimming out off the cape right now think it's not time to 174 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:39,440 migrate deeper into the Atlantic until it's too late, until it is too cold 175 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,679 to do so. And because they're reptiles and they can't generate their own body 176 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,840 heat, they start swimming, they run into this cold and they just get 177 00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:52,000 so cold they can't swim anymore and their bodies just start to shut down and 178 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:58,519 they are washed like driftwood back up on shore during storms. So we were 179 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:03,360 on the li is a storm coming, He's a storm coming, And once 180 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,840 we heard a storm was coming, we headed out from New Hampshire to join 181 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:11,840 them. And it's a nighttime activity, at least it was on that day 182 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:16,679 because of the timing of the storm. So we were out on the beach 183 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:22,559 in December during a storm at night looking for turtles. It was surreal. 184 00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:28,879 It was a long, long, hard walk. And my hat is really 185 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:35,600 off to Matt Patterson, who is super strong. He's just turned forty recently. 186 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,840 He was a wrestler. He's got muscles in his arms as big as 187 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:43,120 my thigh. But it still was quite an effort for him. To haul 188 00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:52,120 this sled full of Kemp's Ridley turtles and heavy seaweed for what turned out to 189 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,720 be more than ten miles over the sand of the cape that night. But 190 00:15:56,799 --> 00:16:03,519 it was so worth it because these five highly endangered turtles who would have definitely 191 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,840 died, definitely, we're going to live. We got them all in time 192 00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:15,519 and they were taken to the New England aquariums Quincy facility where they were rehabbed 193 00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:18,000 and let go. And we're just fine. And to be able to take 194 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:22,799 a hand at something like that help someone live. They'll live a hundred years, 195 00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:26,679 you know, if fate is kind to them. And to be able 196 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:33,600 to save someone like that, oh my gosh, what an amazing feeling. 197 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:36,559 I know, you know, it's one thing to not that I'm saying, 198 00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:38,720 rescuing like a squirrel, for example, isn't a noble thing to do. 199 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,720 But to rescue a species were like, yeah, for one hundred years they 200 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,679 could be reproducing and making more and more of those endangered turtles like that is 201 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,480 such a huge deal. They're right, you are. And turtles even though 202 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,679 we think we think we know turtles and we see turtles everywhere, and you 203 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:57,799 go by the pond, and there's a whole bunch of them in the summer 204 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,839 piled up on a log. Turtles as a group, which encompasses over three 205 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:11,920 hundred and fifty species, is the most endangered terrestrial vertebrate on our planet. 206 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:18,720 So when you save one, you're saving generations of an endangered species, as 207 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:27,400 well as saving that individual's wild and precious and hopefully long life. So to 208 00:17:27,519 --> 00:17:30,640 pivot from turtles for a bit. So, we recently did an episode on 209 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,680 this podcast on tigers and the Sooner Bonds, and we discussed your book Spelled 210 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,440 the Tiger the Man Eaters of the Sooner Bonds, and I have ever since 211 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,640 reading that book been dying to know, like, what was it like purposely 212 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:47,359 seeking out tigers known to eat people as a person. Well, first of 213 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,920 all, I had to convince my husband that I would be just fine because 214 00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:55,799 they were man eaters, and in fact, they mostly do eat men. 215 00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:59,480 The women stay home where they can be eating my crocodiles, so that calmed 216 00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:04,920 him down a little bit. But I discovered that most of the time it's 217 00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:10,880 not the tigers coming into the village to snack on the people, it's the 218 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:17,200 people going into a tiger reserve where it is illegal for them to go. 219 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:26,799 Who are up to mischief end up getting eaten by tigers. So although I 220 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:33,680 did go into the tiger reserve, I did so with proper permissions, and 221 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,559 frankly, I was just so mesmerized by the idea of seeing these swimming tigers 222 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:44,519 who swim out after your boat and get on board and eat you that I 223 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:52,279 wasn't frightened at all. What I was frightened of was not being able to 224 00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:57,000 see any tigers. Yeah, that's totally fair. So, like, can 225 00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:00,960 you explain a little bit what was it like being in that part of the 226 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,240 world that's so unique and has tigers that swim regularly in saltwater. Yeah, 227 00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:14,400 this is the only mangrove swamp in the world that has tigers, and mangrove 228 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,559 swamps feel absolutely magical. You know, the tides are coming in and flushing 229 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,480 through the forests, and the forests are flooded for part of the day, 230 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,880 so the land and the tides, everything's getting resculpted. So you never feel 231 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,480 like you really got a handle on everything. You have this feeling of being 232 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:42,359 lost almost all the time, being at the mercy of something larger all the 233 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:51,000 time, and when I felt this most keenly was when I was on the 234 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:56,240 small handmade wooden boat that was piloted by my friend Jurindro Nath Mrita, who 235 00:19:56,319 --> 00:20:03,279 lived in the village of Jamesport. Made eventually four different expeditions into Shunderman, 236 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,000 and the first one everything that could go wrong went wrong. I was supposed 237 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:11,799 to go in with a scientist who spoke English and Bengali, he had a 238 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,920 speedboat. He was going to help me with a permitting process. You can't 239 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,920 just go to Shunderman. You have to go through this long permitting process to 240 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:26,359 get there. All of that fell through. So I ended up out there 241 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:34,039 with my friend and the photographer Diane Taylor Snow with no translator, no speedboat, 242 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:42,799 no guide, no scientist, completely at the mercy of whatever this place 243 00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:48,200 and its animals had to throw at me. And I'm so glad that I 244 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:52,920 met Jurindra and that he took me and Diane on his boat. But what 245 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:59,359 was horrible was because I thought I was going to have a translator. I 246 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:07,200 didn't learn Bengali back then. This was in the early nineties. Back then 247 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:15,759 Bengali was just not taught anywhere there weren't even language tapes, and it took 248 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:21,920 months for me to mail away and finally get a Bengali English Bengali dictionary, 249 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,559 which had to come from Bangladesh. Actually there were two of them. They 250 00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:29,799 were thick, and they arrive and I'm thrilled, and I throw it open 251 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:36,240 and there's the English and next to it squiggles. It was all in the 252 00:21:36,319 --> 00:21:41,359 Bengali alphabet, which I couldn't read. So I had learned some phrases in 253 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,839 Bengali, but not enough to conduct interviews. Meanwhile, Jurindra, you know, 254 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,720 he lived out in the boonies in a beautiful handmade house made out of 255 00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:56,079 mud, and he hadn't gone to college to learn English. I mean he 256 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,839 had learned a little English. He learned more English than I Bengali. But 257 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,480 every single word we had in each other's language we had to deploy like a 258 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:10,880 Swiss army knife. And he kept telling me tiger accident here, and I 259 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:17,000 would say when, and invariably he would say yesterday. And I thought, 260 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,599 yesterday, yesterday, a tiger ate someone yesterday right here. I didn't realize 261 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,279 until much later that the word yesterday meant any time in the past. Oh 262 00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:33,519 boy, so it was real, real hard. But the thing was, 263 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,720 I came back and came back and came back again. I was committed to 264 00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:41,599 it. I had stayed I think for my first trip. I was actually 265 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:45,720 in Bangladesh and India. The total trip was about two months long. Wow. 266 00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:48,559 And I came back a second time and a third time, and then 267 00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:53,880 I went back with the National Geographic TV a fourth time. So they knew 268 00:22:53,920 --> 00:23:00,880 that I was really committed to this. And I eventually found these wonderful translators 269 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,160 who I am still in touch with, who live in Calcutta. They were 270 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,200 young college students, Wow. And they were up for going to this tiger 271 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:15,160 reserve and this fabulous adventure through them, and thanks to the fact that Jurindra 272 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:19,440 and his family and his village were so welcoming to me, I think I 273 00:23:19,519 --> 00:23:26,720 got a much better and much deeper story than I would have had all of 274 00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:32,759 my previous arrangements with this wonderful scientist worked out. I did end up meeting 275 00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:38,440 the scientist later and interviewing him, but this way I went in humbly as 276 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:48,079 this foreign woman, full of curiosity, asking for them to graciously favor me 277 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:52,559 with their knowledge. And these were poor people in a country that operates with 278 00:23:52,680 --> 00:24:00,640 a caste system, and having a scientist connected with the universe, a big, 279 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,880 you know, male, respected scientist may have made them nervous. But 280 00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:11,680 I didn't make them nervous because I was harmless. But they did respect me 281 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:15,599 for being an author, and I knew the word for author, so I 282 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,920 was able to get that across Lakika Nice in West Bengal and in Bangladesh as 283 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:27,839 well. People revere writing to the point that I was not allowed by them 284 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:33,200 to put my notebook on the ground because it was disrespectful to my book. 285 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:38,480 Oh but these people, you know, they live among tigers all the time, 286 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:45,640 and almost everyone I met had had a friend or a family member killed 287 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:52,039 by a tiger because many times people went into the tiger reserve. Sometimes they 288 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:59,680 were illegally poaching wood, sometimes they were illegally taking fish. The reason it's 289 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,039 a lea is that you need to have some areas that are off limits to 290 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,839 humans so that the fish, you know, can replenish themselves in special nurseries, 291 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,960 and so that the trees have a place to grow and then produce the 292 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,880 seed pods that they drop into the water and distribute it everywhere. There's good 293 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,599 reasons for this, and the people know the reasons. They encode those reasons, 294 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:29,480 though not in stories of science, but in sacred stories about a tiger 295 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:34,359 god and a forest goddess. And they shared these stories with me that might 296 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:42,880 have been dismissed by a university researcher, but I knew that these stories were 297 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:52,960 deeply true. Maybe not true in terms of time and direct fact, but 298 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,799 true in their heart, in the way that the parables of Jesus are true. 299 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,119 Yeah, I mean, the book is as much of about their culture 300 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,960 as it is about tigers. Like I didn't expect going into it to know 301 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,720 so much about their culture at the end, but it was beautiful and honestly, 302 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:14,039 as a scientist, made me rethink the things I consider to be true, 303 00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:15,480 because I'm like, well, I mean, who's to say that there 304 00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:19,319 isn't a tiger god? And that's why these strange mystical things seem to happen 305 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,319 there, you know, right, And so many of the things that they 306 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:30,519 say that we would dismiss a silly superstition are in fact excellent natural history observations, 307 00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:33,480 such as you know, they would say, oh, the tiger can 308 00:26:33,519 --> 00:26:40,720 become invisible. Well, to a Westerner, you think that they turn transparent 309 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:48,519 like cling wrap or Casper the friendly Ghost. But no, a tiger can 310 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:56,039 become invisible just by hiding behind a blade of grass because their camouflage renders them 311 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:02,480 invisible to us. So that is accurate. The tiger can fly through the 312 00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:06,079 air. When you and I think of that, we might picture tinker Bell 313 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,279 flying through the air or a hawk flying through the air. But no, 314 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,759 tigers can leap for quite a distance, and when they do, they're flying 315 00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:23,079 through the air. So my practice was to recognize that these people knew more 316 00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:29,400 about that area than I did, and to listen for truth when they spoke. 317 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,839 And I think this is something that we need to apply when we meet 318 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:41,359 new people, when we visit other cultures, and when we read our own 319 00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:48,559 sacred texts. I get frustrated as a Christian by folks who feel like, 320 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,079 you know, I'm dismissing the Bible because I don't think that the world was 321 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:59,480 created in six days. You know, the Bible is not a big book 322 00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:06,440 of answers about science. And when you speak to people who live close to 323 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,119 the earth, when they tell you their truth, they're not doing it in 324 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:17,279 science speak, but they have a great deal of knowledge, and what they're 325 00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:22,720 telling us is true in a deeper sense, in the way that a parable 326 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:30,519 or a myth is deeply true. So, speaking of your time over there, 327 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,119 I'm assuming you did get to see tigers, and didn't you have an 328 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,319 experience where a tiger tried to get onto the boat you were on a tire 329 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:44,319 swam after our boat, but we did not know it at the time. 330 00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:48,039 Oh boy, Yeah, it was even more magical because we didn't see it. 331 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,799 Now, on our first trip with Diane, we did see a tiger 332 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:59,279 swimming in front of our boat and it was such an unexpected site that my 333 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,920 brain registered it as a rock, a striped rock, orange and black, 334 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,319 but it was a tiger's head. But rocks don't move. But that's what 335 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:14,640 my brain saw until I realized it's a swimming tiger. The tiger that swam 336 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,680 after our boat, though, that was even more amazing. And how do 337 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,880 we know what happened without seeing it. Well, we were on Jurindra's little 338 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,079 handmade boat and it's low in the water. A tiger could very easily get 339 00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:33,119 on it. We were going down a main part of the river and then 340 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,000 turned up just a little tributary. These tributaries because they you know, the 341 00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:42,359 sea is rising and falling, you got to be really careful because you can 342 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:48,480 get stuck in these tributaries. And we saw that we were fixing to get 343 00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,519 stuck. In fact, we kind of were stuck, so we decided to 344 00:29:52,559 --> 00:30:00,680 turn around. While we were turning around is when the tiger was yards from 345 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:07,039 our boat, and we knew it because we saw absolutely fresh footprints pug marks 346 00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:12,319 coming out of the water leading into the forest. And we thought, oh 347 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,400 my gosh, we just missed seeing this tiger. Where did he come from? 348 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,759 So we checked the area around us, and we saw no other pug 349 00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:26,799 marks. So we retraced our steps to the larger river, and we saw 350 00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:32,359 where the tiger had seen our boat had come out of the forest. We 351 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,119 saw the footsteps leading out of the forest had swum after our boat had turned 352 00:30:37,559 --> 00:30:41,400 with our boat up the little tributary, and then for some reason decided not 353 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:47,119 to get on our boat and just walk back into the forest. Oh how 354 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,720 lucky is that? Yeah, it was really great. I have certainly enjoyed 355 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,400 my life since then, and it's been I'm sure your husband was grateful. 356 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,680 Yes, this is true, and I don't think I had any insurance at 357 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,400 that point. Oh boy, would you consider that area of the world the 358 00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:08,319 most dangerous in terms of the wildlife there that you've experienced? Well, you 359 00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:15,200 know what, the only time an animal has ever hurt me was in Borneo 360 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:21,640 and it was a mosquito. Oh boy, I got danky fever, which 361 00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:25,720 can kill you. It's called breakbone fever. And that's the only time any 362 00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:32,480 animal has ever hurt me. I don't feel in danger around animals at all. 363 00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:36,319 I have been endangered by people. I've twice had a gun held to 364 00:31:36,359 --> 00:31:40,200 my head in my trips. Oh my gosh. People scare the hell out 365 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:45,640 of me, but animals not so much. Yeah, that's totally fair. 366 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:48,799 Yeah, that's something we actually talk about in this podcast quite a bit. 367 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,519 Like we have, you know, listeners around the world, and we have 368 00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:53,000 some from Australia who have said, like, oh man, I can't believe 369 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,880 that you guys go hiking where there's bears and coyotes, and I'm like, 370 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,839 not one time have I been worried about a black bear, But I am 371 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,240 always worried about people messing with me in the woods. Yeah, no kidding. 372 00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:07,799 And it's funny that they're in Australia, which all of poisonous snakes and 373 00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:12,920 red fires. Again, you know, I've seen red backspiders. I lived 374 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,559 in Australia for six months in a tent, and they're very shy and you 375 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:21,359 just don't want to squash them, in which case they're going to defend themselves. 376 00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:25,079 But most animals really aren't gonna buy. They also have a salties, 377 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,839 you know, the crocodile, you know, So it's very funny that they're 378 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,079 afraid of our black bears. I've stuck my head in a den with a 379 00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:37,880 fully awake mother bear and her cubs, my face inches from her face, 380 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,160 and she didn't even square her lips at me. I mean, she didn't 381 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,480 even snort. Are black bears in the East, They're gonna look at you 382 00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:51,200 and run away. I know so many scientists who, in an effort to 383 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,759 get weights on cubs and make sure everybody is all right, have been stuffing 384 00:32:53,920 --> 00:33:00,559 mothers cubs into bags to to weigh them, and the mater bear run away. 385 00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:05,079 Yeah, black bear is really not gonna body. So I would welcome 386 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,440 all our Aussie friends come on over. The woods are fine. What you 387 00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:13,599 gotta worry about it? Here is ticks and if they be a lime disease. 388 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,319 I know. It's so funny. It is really just what you are 389 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,319 used to and what you know, because like when I go out West, 390 00:33:19,359 --> 00:33:22,680 I'm terrified of grizzly bears, but a lot of the people there just it's 391 00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:24,240 just part of living there. You just get used to it. So, 392 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,200 yeah, that's right, grizzlies. I've never met a grizzly in the wild. 393 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,519 Have you ever seen one? I saw one. I went to Yellowstone 394 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,559 two I think two or three years ago now, and I look through a 395 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:42,039 nice man's monoscope and saw a grizzly with a wolf. But for some reason 396 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,799 you could probably relate to this. But like my whole life had been leading 397 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,640 up to me going to Yellowstone, like that was the big thing I wanted 398 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,680 to do. I want to see wolves in the wild. They're one of 399 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,680 my favorites. And I got up at like four in the morning with my 400 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,160 parents. We went out to Lamar Valley and Yellowstone where all the wolves were 401 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,079 known to be, and there was just this group of like forty people all 402 00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:05,200 gathered around this parking lot watching the wolves. And for some reason, like 403 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,239 even though I saw a wolf, through this monoscope with a grizzly bear, 404 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,039 which is like the best you could ask for at Yellowstone. It just it 405 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:15,800 didn't feel right to me, Like it didn't feel as exciting as if I 406 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,119 was to go out into the woods by myself and see it on my own, 407 00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:22,800 you know what I mean. Yeah, I totally, I totally know 408 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,960 what you mean. It's still massively cool that you've got to two for also, 409 00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:30,239 you know, two seater than one scope, that's great. But yeah, 410 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:37,760 there is something wonderful about the intimacy of meeting a wild animal unexpectedly when 411 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,119 you're alone, when the two of you are alone, that is really really 412 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,039 special. Yeah, Like I saw on that same trip, I saw this 413 00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:51,199 one area that was full of rocks on this little hike, and I was 414 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,360 like, I bet that there is a pika in there somewhere, and if 415 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,599 I just stand here still, and sure enough, I stood there for like 416 00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:00,159 fifteen minutes and just looked at the same area, saw movement and there was 417 00:35:00,199 --> 00:35:02,760 a pike gut And that was like the highlight of the trip because I was 418 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,880 like, I put in the effort. It was just me and this little 419 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,400 dude, and it was, Yeah, the best wildlife encounter I'd had that 420 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,639 whole trip. Did he look at you for a while or did he just 421 00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:15,199 pop up and then pop up down in the gun. He was going about 422 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:16,239 his business. But I got some good pictures, which is what I really 423 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:22,840 cared about. So great, Yeah, great, that's wonderful. So that 424 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,480 being said, I guess what has been the most harrowing adventure you've gone on 425 00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:30,039 while researching for a book? Was it when you got Dan gay fever? 426 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:35,480 Or was there some other terrible experience or scary experience. Well, probably the 427 00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:40,079 most harrowing and probably the most dangerous thing that I did was I went to 428 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,960 areas of Cambodia where there's a lot of land mines, and I was riding 429 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:52,880 around on a motorcycle and very very muddy area. And again, would you 430 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:59,559 have to worry about besides unexploded ordinance? Is people there? It's kind of 431 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:02,360 At that time anyway, it was rather lawless out there. I was researching 432 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,920 a book called Search for the Golden Moonbear. And at one point our guide 433 00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:13,719 looked very nervous, and we asked our friends Son Hen, like, why 434 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,119 is our guide so nervous? And Son Hen told us, well, in 435 00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:22,480 this area about a year ago he was kidnapped and held hostage in the woods 436 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:27,840 right here, and I kind of felt like, well, thank you for 437 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,360 sharing. It's all the people you gotta you gotta watch out for, Yeah, 438 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,719 but generally, you know, with the with the animals themselves. And 439 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:44,119 maybe it's just because I've been lucky, but I don't think I've really felt 440 00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:49,559 threatened by any animal ever. M hmm. Well that kind of answers the 441 00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:52,079 next question I had, which is from our patron Emily, who asked, 442 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:54,519 what animal have you worked with that has scared you the most? Humans? 443 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,599 Absolutely, that makes a lot of sense, and I'll tell you, I 444 00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:05,039 mean I'm not crazy about leeches. One time, this was in Australia, 445 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:09,360 in Queensland, I was out looking for cassawerries. I mean cassawarries are basically 446 00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:14,159 dinosaurs with a big helmet, a bone on their head, and a killer 447 00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:17,880 claw, and they do they do kill people. They haven't killed anyone in 448 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,760 Australia in a really long time. They kill people in Papa New Guinea all 449 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,440 the time, and I've been there. But when they kill people in Papa 450 00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:27,239 New Guinea, it's because the people are trying to kill them. And who 451 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,119 can blame them, but anyway, so I'm in the forest looking for a 452 00:37:30,199 --> 00:37:35,480 cassowary, not finding one. Come back out. I'm waiting in the parking 453 00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:37,239 lot of this place for my friends to pick me up. They come in 454 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:43,079 their car and I see their faces through the windshield, spotting me, and 455 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,199 there's a look of horror growing over their faces as they see me. And 456 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,840 I'm like, what is my braw showing or something the matter? And I 457 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,960 look down and I'm covered in blood. Oh god, it was for leeches. 458 00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:05,079 I had dozens and dozens of leeches all over me, and leech drool, 459 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,079 as you know, contains an anticoagulant that makes you just bleed for hours 460 00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:15,000 and hours and hours, So that was probably the most gruesome experience. But 461 00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:22,159 as well as the anticoagulant, leeches also have an anesthetic so that it doesn't 462 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:28,599 feel like you've been shot by a machine gun all like you have. That 463 00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:30,960 must have been so funny to your friends too, because you're just covering blood, 464 00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:34,599 like smiling, happy to see them, and you must be in shock. 465 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,760 Well, once I figured out that I was covered with leeches, I 466 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,519 was kind of in a hurry to get to a shower. And get them 467 00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:45,079 off. Yeah, but they were you know, once they fill with blood, 468 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:49,199 they just PLoP right off you. And they were like falling out of 469 00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,880 my pants, legs onto the floor of the heart. I mean it was 470 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:58,119 a lot. God. Yeah, that and like leeches and ticks scare me 471 00:38:58,199 --> 00:39:00,280 way more and like gross me out than any other animal on the planet. 472 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,159 I can't, I can't do it. Hemmy, I really don't. I 473 00:39:05,199 --> 00:39:08,679 mean, nobody, nobody else really bums me out so much. I'm not 474 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:15,599 crazy about biting flies, including mosquitoes who are flies, particularly in the tropics, 475 00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:20,320 when they can carry all kinds of diseases. But they're just doing what 476 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,360 they've got to do, and usually there's a way around getting totally sagminated. 477 00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:30,440 Yeah. So on the flip side of that question, patron Robin Smith and 478 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,960 Emily asked similar questions. So, which individual animal that you've met or worked 479 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,519 with has been your favorite? Well, he's right here, thurber and Border 480 00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:43,719 College. He's eight years old. He's a love of my life. Were 481 00:39:44,679 --> 00:39:46,800 But in terms of species, if that's what they would like to know, 482 00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:53,519 Yeah, probably the most interesting to me because they are so unlike us, 483 00:39:54,079 --> 00:40:00,639 and it is octopus. I wrote that octopus book. I got a new 484 00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:05,400 book coming out on octopus, interestingly National Traffic and Random House in the spring, 485 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,159 called Secrets of the Octopus. But my first octopus book, which was 486 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:15,599 The Soul of an Octopus, I got to know very well several giant Pacific 487 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:20,400 octopuses who would recognize me, look into my face, choose to come to 488 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,079 me, flush red with excitement when they saw me, loved to play with 489 00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:30,280 me, were very gentle with me, clearly recognized individuals, some of whom 490 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:36,239 they liked, some of whom they didn't. But talk about an alien being. 491 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,360 To have someone like that be your friend is amazing. This is, 492 00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:43,880 you know, a critter who has not one bone in their whole body. 493 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:49,760 They can pour their baggy bodies even though they might be forty pounds, through 494 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,639 an opening the size of a clementine. You know, they can change color 495 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:58,159 and shape, They can taste with their entire body. They have venom like 496 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,559 a snake, and they can you ink. They just their mouths are in 497 00:41:02,559 --> 00:41:07,280 their armpits. They have three parts. Their brain is a circle around their 498 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,280 throat. And that you could be friends with someone like that who chooses to 499 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,400 spend time with you and share their world with you, and I am still 500 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,559 completely awestruck by that. I'm not just saying this because you're in front of 501 00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:27,320 me right now. But The Soul and Octopus is the most recommended book by 502 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,480 like any other science loving person that I know, Like every single person I've 503 00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:34,039 met who I'm like, what's a good book recommendation? They say, the 504 00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,599 Soul of an Octopus? Wow, Well that makes me feel great. No, 505 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,800 it's a very beloved book. Also, have you heard the theory that 506 00:41:42,119 --> 00:41:45,880 some people think octopuses came from space and that there actually are aliens? Yeah, 507 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,679 I have heard that, but you know, we are all aliens. 508 00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:58,000 Life truly was seeded from outer space on our planet because our planet was just 509 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,199 well without form and void pretty much according according to both the Bible and what 510 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:07,920 we know of you know, the Big Bang. So the elements necessary for 511 00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:12,400 life rained down on our planet from outer space. So we're all aliens. 512 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:19,119 Very good point. That is a great rebuttal or, as they say in 513 00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:22,679 the Age of a Query, I think at age we are Stardust. I 514 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,320 do love that saying, yeah that we all contain Stardust, we do, 515 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:32,519 and to Stardust we return, which is lovely. So patron Ness asked, 516 00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:36,639 you've worked on a lot of different species. Is there an animal that you 517 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,559 don't know enough about and that you plan on researching in the future. Oh, 518 00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:44,760 gosh, I don't know enough about the ones I have researched. I 519 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,639 know. Yeah, gosh, yeah, there's a ton. There's a ton 520 00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:52,880 of animals I want to learn about. The next animal that I'm going to 521 00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:58,880 travel to research is the giant manta ray. Yeah. I can't wait. 522 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,800 This is something that I've we had planned to do. Gosh, it's years 523 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,679 and years since we plan to do it, but all kinds of things screwed 524 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:12,440 up, And I'm going to Ecuador to work with Michelle Guerrero who is studying 525 00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:17,800 these giant manta rays. Huge. Essentially, they're like flying carpets who can 526 00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:23,079 launch themselves out of the water and fly through the air and then plunge back 527 00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:28,519 down. They're relatives of sharks. They're very smart. They can live for 528 00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:34,239 seventy years. They do recognize individual humans. They are known to come to 529 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,599 humans for help when they have a hook or some line lodged in them, 530 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:45,880 and they frequent this one very special area to basically go to the spa when 531 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,960 they get full of icky parasites or just want their dead skin cleaned off. 532 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:57,440 They go to this one area and different species of cleaner fish come and tend 533 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,039 to them, and during that time you get to see lots of them. 534 00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:07,840 So I'll be going there in August September to research a book for young people 535 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:14,039 on this fantastic, nice species and this great guy doing the research awesome. 536 00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:16,280 Yeah. Also, Ecuador is a fantastic place for wildlife, so I'm sure 537 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,079 you're gonna see a lot of good stuff just besides the band rays as well. 538 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,320 Yeah, did you go. I've never been, but it is on 539 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,920 my list from everyone that goes there. The pictures are incredible. Yeah, 540 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:31,199 and this is not actually in the Galopagos, but the Galopagos is one of 541 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:37,360 those places that I've always always wanted to go. Unfortunately, Ecuador this morning 542 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,039 I heard on the radio that you know, it's being a big mess right 543 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:45,599 now. There's all kinds of drug gangs running around, and I just hope 544 00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:52,920 that isn't wrecking their tourism trade, which keeps alive. A lot of the 545 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:58,719 conservation efforts at that country is doing to conserve these unique animals. Oh boy, 546 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,719 I feel like that's the way with pretty much every kind, even our 547 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,159 country. It's like, ah, man, there's certain places you go and 548 00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:08,400 it just everywhere is slightly messed up, which stinks. I know. There's 549 00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:14,039 just so many of us. Yeah, you know, even though humans kind 550 00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:17,199 of aren't my people. I did marry one, and I have lots of 551 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:25,679 human friends, but we are so numerous right now that even if you love 552 00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:32,760 our earth and try to tread lightly, there's just so many people everywhere that 553 00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:38,480 you know, you almost can't help but cause disruption. So for me, 554 00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:45,280 what that says is that right now is a great time for us to be 555 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:52,280 alive and be courageous and be creative in coming up with the solutions to make 556 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:59,519 up for all the problems that our kind is intentionally or otherwise causing. Yeah. 557 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,159 Well, that is a great segue to our last question, which is 558 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:07,920 if after reading your book of Time in Turtles or just this conversation, people 559 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,400 are feeling a call to action to help turtles, what can they do to 560 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,039 get involved. There's a whole bunch of good stuff you can do from crossing 561 00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:19,719 the turtle that you see crossing the street in the direction that they're going. 562 00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:22,679 Don't be afraid to pick up a snap or just learn the right way to 563 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,480 do it. Two, if you see a turtle hit on the road, 564 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,920 call a wildlife rehabilitator. Even if the turtle is dead. They can help 565 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:36,920 because they often can harvest the eggs and incubate them and release those babies. 566 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:44,880 Dozens and dozens of babies in some cases join an organization like Turtle Survival Alliance. 567 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:52,679 They are needing people to support their work protecting turtles around the world who 568 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,920 are endangered or even in some cases extinct in the wild, but only being 569 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,320 kept alive at breeding facilities such as those that they operate. Also, you 570 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:06,840 can be a volunteer for some of these places. You can be a volunteer 571 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,519 even if you don't want to work with turtles per se. You can help 572 00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:15,559 do some fundraising, You can help with publicity, you can help contribute your 573 00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:20,239 artwork. There's so many ways that we can help. And in the back 574 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:24,760 of every one of my books, I give some references for people who want 575 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,920 to do more, because that is exactly why I write these books, not 576 00:47:30,519 --> 00:47:37,199 just as a peon of praise of the glories of these wonderful animals and the 577 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:42,119 people working to understand them and protect them, but also to mobilize the readers 578 00:47:42,159 --> 00:47:45,880 who are moved by their stories, who are moved by their beauty, who 579 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:52,039 want to become part of the solution. Wellsi, where can people find you 580 00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:58,239 specifically? Well, I'm in Hancock, New Hampshire. Don't go knocking on 581 00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:07,119 her door boy website Si Montgomery dot com and I update that with news and 582 00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:12,159 new books and reviews and media and all kinds of good stuff like that. 583 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:17,320 I'm on Facebook thanks to my young assistant. I'm also on Twitter and Instagram, 584 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,480 although I have no idea how to operate it, and now I am 585 00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:28,840 on get Out, a live podcast. Totally awesome. Well, thanks so 586 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:34,960 much for being here. And that was my interview with Sion Montgomery. I 587 00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:37,840 cannot recommend her books enough, especially her new book of Time in Turtles. 588 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,239 And even if you're not someone who likes to read nonfiction, like I've been 589 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,719 reading a ton of fantasy lately, but her method of storytelling keeps you hooked 590 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:50,679 even as you're learning about science. And you can find her books anywhere at 591 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,480 any local bookstores or online. And if you'd like to follow her on social 592 00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:58,280 media or see links to people or places mentioned within the episode, check out 593 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,159 the episode description and I'll have every thing for you there. Also, if 594 00:49:01,159 --> 00:49:05,519 you are a member of our Expert Survivalist here on Patreon, which you can 595 00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:07,480 also find a link to in the episode description. Soon I will be sending 596 00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:12,719 out your next gift, and it was entirely inspired by this episode and her 597 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,840 new book, so please make sure I have your correct address within the next 598 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:17,920 few weeks so we can get to you. You can also follow us for 599 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,199 free on Patreon for some extra content and latest updates from us, and you 600 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,840 can also support the show for free by rating us five stars wherever you're listening, 601 00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:30,039 and also by subscribing otherwise, I'll keep this outdoor, short and sweet. 602 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,039 You can find links to our social medias within the episode description as well 603 00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:36,360 or on our website get Alive podcast dot com, where you can also find 604 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,440 stickers of ours and other merch. Thank you so much to my good friend 605 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,639 and second great husband Josh Walsh for making our interro music and his brother Jesse 606 00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:45,920 Walsh for being our editor. And I'll be back in two weeks for a 607 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:52,639 new animal attack story. Thanks