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You're listening to the Mind Over Murder
podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.

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I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now

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trying to use my experience as the
brother of a murder victim to help other

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victims of violent crime. I'm working
on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway

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murders, and I'm the co administrator
of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together

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with Kristin Dilly. My name is
Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a

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researcher, a teacher, and a
victim's advocate, as well as the social

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media manager and co administrator for the
Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner

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in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome
to Mind Over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly

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and I'm Bill Thomas. We're continuing
our discussion today about the HBO Max series

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Burden of Proof, which dropped on
the sixth of June. We hope you've

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had a chance to watch it by
now, but if not, please pause

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this recording go watch join us again
in a little bit later. It's a

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terrific series about the February nineteen eighty
seven disappearance of Jennifer Pandos. This conversation

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today will make a lot more sense
if you listen to the first part of

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this conversation in our last episode of
Mind Over Murder. So we're shifting into

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the back half of the four episodes
in Burden of Proof, which are extremely

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well done, but we also want
to encourage you to jump into this conversation

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if you like. Yeah, absolutely, of course. We love it when

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you all engage with us on social
media, and we do our best to

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respond to everybody. So if you
have thoughts, observations, raves, questions,

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anything else with relation to Burden of
Proof, please do put all of

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that on our social media page.
We're happy to engage with you and we

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will address listener questions as needed or
warranted. Not to give everything away,

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because we're trying to respect the fact
that Cynthia Hill and the team that put

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this together as a four part series, they would like you to watch all

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four episodes. Part of the thing
that's key, I think to Burden of

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Proof is that this is a series
that was shot over a seven year period

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from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty three. A good portion of what you're seeing

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and this is probably from hundreds of
hours of footage is Stephen Pandos, the

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brother of Jennifer Pandos, and his
personal journey moving from a situation where in

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twenty sixteen and for several years forward
he strongly suspects that his father, ro

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On Pandos, and his mother Margie
may be involved, the father specifically,

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and then the mother perhaps involved in
a potential cover up. And then,

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of course, as Stephen learns more
about his sister's disappearance and the circumstance says

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around that time frame, from investigators, forensics experts, the Commonwealth attorney,

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and others, he realizes his original
view of the case is probably wrong,

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and he even says the things he
was led to believe for the first twenty

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two years of his understanding of his
sister's disappearance are completely wrong. Then the

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conclusions that he at least is tentatively
committed to in the first two episodes began

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to shift in episodes three and four, and it was interesting to me too

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when they shifted to talking to the
investigators on the case. I don't think

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we're spoiling too much here. If
we do mention that there was a lost

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case file, do you think that's
okay. Can we mention the last case

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file though I certainly have no problem
with it, And of course, the

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idea that there were misfiled papers.
We haven't had that happen in the Colonial

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Parkway murders, but we've had discarded
evidence and missed opportunities. We've had leaks

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of crime scene photos. So I
groaned out loud when we first learned about

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this. As you move forward,
this missing case file becomes increasingly important because

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there's so little for law enforcement to
work with in this case. When one

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of the current investigators reaches out to
Stephen and says, hey, we found

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the original case file. It was
at the bottom of a box in one

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of the filing rooms, they reveal
once we had the original case file,

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we realized that we needed to shift
our investigation into an entirely different direction.

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And that was a moment where I
was like, Oh, my goodness,

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do tell where are we looking now? And that is what you learn in

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episodes three and four. This is
where the investigation has shifted, and it

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has shifted away from the parents.
Bill, even after you learned along with

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the rest of us, that hey, they're shifting the focus away from the

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parents did you still feel suspicious of
the parents at all, or did you

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understand why they shifted? I think
that Ron and Margie's very odd responses to

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Jennifer's disappearance, I think actually unintentionally
created suspicion. Just some of the things

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they did were so profoundly odd.
And even in episodes three and four,

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when the investigation shifts from the parents
to other potential and strongly suspicious suspects,

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I wasn't dismissing the fact that Ron
Pandos could have been involved in the disappearance

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of his daughter, but they were
definitely moving down the list. Of course,

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I had some of the lessons learned
from the Colonial Parkway murders in my

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head, like one of our FBI
investigators saying to me years ago, no

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one's ever cleared in an unsolved homicide
until the homicide itself is cleared. Until

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you actually know what happened, you
can't say, oh, no longer a

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suspect in the Jennifer Pandos disappearance,
for example, that was always in the

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back of my mind. But it's
shocking to find out that there are some

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other people who really belong at the
top of the list. And this is

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not like the Colonial Parkway murders,
where we have one hundred and fifty persons

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of interest. Is a much smaller
group of people. The players begin to

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shift around, and you begin to
realize we should be looking at people that

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probably had a role here in her
disappearance, and the parents are moving down

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the list of likely suspects into perhaps
not beyond suspicion, but definitely not the

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most likely. One of my other
crime minded friends who watched this documentary after

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my recommendation, and he said,
he said, do you want to know

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when I figured out that mom and
dad probably had nothing to do with it?

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I said, no, when did
you figure that out? And he

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said, it came a little later
in the documentary than it should have.

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He said, but the minute that
Mom allowed herself to be hypnotized, I

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knew that they had nothing to do
with it, because you can't hide anything

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under hypnosis, he said. If
she was going to allow herself to fall

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under that sort of that sort of
procedure, he said, I knew she

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didn't have anything to do with it. And I thought that's very interesting.

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Yeah, Yeah, he's such a
smart dude that I was like, hey,

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I wouldn't have thought of it that
way, but now that he mentioned

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it, I can see it someone
had something to hide. You'd think that

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they would not be willing to see
that level of control never been hypnotized.

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It's a very interesting field. Yeah, But as I understand it from what

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I've read and heard, people under
hypnosis will say things, admit things that

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they wouldn't necessarily admit while fully conscious. I know one of the efforts in

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the true crime space is trying to
get people to remember more detail, but

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that could be incriminating if you're trying
to hide the fact that, let's say

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you're involved in Jennifer's disappearance. I
think the last thing someone would do would

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be to say, oh, sure, go ahead hypnotize me. Yeah,

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but someone had nothing to hide,
they'd probably say, okay, sure if

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it helps. And I really felt
for all that. I think we can

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all agree Ron and Margie's responses were
definitely a little odd, ranging up the

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scale, too bizarre, But I
felt really awful every time that I watched

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Margie have confrontations both with Stephen and
with the investigators, because she so very

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clearly is frustrated and hurt and angry
and indignant that her son would believe that

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she had anything to do with it, when she has staunchly continued to say

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I had nothing to do with this. I would never And by the time

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we get to the end of the
series and we learn who they're focusing on

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as opposed to the parents, I
did feel bad, like part of me

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felt bad for doubting her. I
know that you're going on the journey the

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filmmakers are taking you on, and
so for the first two episodes they clearly

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wanted you to look at mom and
Dad with some suspicion. But I felt

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bad by the time we reached the
end of it that I had thought that

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of Margie because she is just so
clearly. I felt awful for her.

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She has suffered not just of course, the loss of one child, but

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it very clearly upset her relationship with
Stephen, and she's had to deal with

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essentially like losing both her kids.
I really felt awful about that. And

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I know I keep saying that this
really is tugged at my heart strings in

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a way that I did not expect, Like I didn't expect to be emotionally

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invested in this. I am.
I share your perspective, but let me

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offer two quick thoughts. One is
that I think one of the reasons why

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we're so sympathetic to Margie Pandos the
mother, is that she's clearly damaged her

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ex husband, Ron Pandos, who
has spent time in jail and been involved

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in some pretty sketchy activities over the
years. He's also been married two times

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after their divorce, so he's on
his third wife. He's not a very

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nice man. He's cruel, and
he's crude and he's hard edged. I

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feel like his wife, his ex
wife, is damaged. Goods because Stephen

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made it very clear that his father
was very abusive to him, particularly abusive,

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mentally abusive, emotionally abusive, and
that he felt very strongly. He

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didn't say that his father beat his
mother or anything like that, but he

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did say that he was extremely emotionally
abusive towards his mother on a lot of

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levels. Margie's so damaged by her
life experience an abusive ex husband. I

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don't think there's much way around that. Losing a daughter at age fifteen,

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and then this horrible strain between Stephen
and his mother, and of course,

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yes, I agree that Cynthia Hill
and the filmmaking team are positioning things in

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a certain way in episodes one and
two. But remember Steven Pandos as the

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brother. It's his journey. He
really believes that his father is involved in

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his sister's disappearance in nineteen eighty seven, and that he believes that essentially his

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father's gotten away with murder and that
his mother may have facilitated her daughter's disappearance,

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and that is something that is unacceptable
to Stephen emotionally. There are oftentimes

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where I thought he seems very shut
down, but his sense of righteousness and

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fairness and what's right and what should
be made right in his world just burns

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throughout the four episodes. This guy
really feels that his sister has been done

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wrong and that he wants to do
everything he can to make it right,

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even if that means accusing his father, whom he's very estranged from, of

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murder and his mother of facilitating a
cover up, because he really believes it.

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I mean, he clearly explored suing
his parents in a civil suit,

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taking legal action against them. He
actually had his sister declared legally dead.

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That's actually quite a bone of contention
between himself and his parents. They're asking

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him, basically, where do you
get off having your sister declared legally dead

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when her parents are still alive?
But he said, yeah, I'm her

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brother, and I believe that she
is no longer with us, and so

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I have had her declared dead.
This clearly bothers his parents tremendously, and

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his father, like I said,
is not a nice guy. I really

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disliked this guy intensely. Yeah.
Yeah, and then there's some very strange

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interview footage where his third wife,
who clearly wasn't around back in nineteen eighty

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seven, is acting as his spokesperson. Almost. Yeah, that was interesting

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arguing points with Steven, and part
of me just wanted to say, lady,

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but out, this isn't your kid. You weren't married to my father

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back then. It's unbelievable. There
is so much now I realize, of

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course, we're just going to do
true Confessions with Bill Thomas for a couple

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of minutes. Here do we have
to why didn't I ask the question?

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And then you decide if you want
to answer it. The dynamics at play

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between your parents and you are vastly
different among those between Stephen and his parents.

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But I'm curious when you were watching
this, did you have moments We

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know that there are moments in which
you similarities between Jennifer's investigation in Kathy's.

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Did you ever feel like there were
moments of kinship between you and Steven where

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you could see what was going on
with him and go, yeah, I

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got you, I get it,
Yes, very much, and you and

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I've talked about this before. I
had a chance to meet John Walsh from

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America's Most Wanted a number of years
ago, and he was a super nice

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man. I remember him saying to
me, boy, the more I had

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learned about Kathy's case, the Colonial
Parkway murders, the more it reminds me

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of Adams case, his son's case. And there were a lot of problems

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in Adam's case, with missed opportunities
and friction with the FBI and a lot

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of stuff we've talked about here.
And at the same time, I remember

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mister Walsh used to use this expression
about you've been asked to join this club

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that no one wants to be asked
to join. That is the families of

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murder victims I have found over the
years since we've been doing this podcast,

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and of course since I've been much
more heavily involved in the Colonial Parkway murders.

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When I meet the loved one of
a murder victim, I feel an

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almost immediate affinity for them, and
especially these days, when I meet the

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siblings of murder victims, it's very
easy to develop that kind of shorthand that

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you would have with someone because you
share something that's so incredibly unusual and there's

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a bond there. Now. I'm
not saying I'm going to be best friends

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with everyone who's ever lost a brother
or a sister to this kind of terrible

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crime, but it's very easy,
and particularly now watching Stephen's story unfold,

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and this is really his story.
It's all about Jennifer and his search for

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answers. So much of it felt
so familiar, And as I said,

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even Pamela, my partner, was
saying, wow, where have we heard

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that before? Or that sounds familiar, or she said out loud, that's

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exactly what happened to you. So
much of his journey feels so similar.

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Yeah, it's a pretty easy place
to put yourself. It's just got to

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be so tough to take what you
yourself have been experiencing for quite a while

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now thirty seven years and see it
reflected Rada on TV and see another person

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going along with it, experiencing the
same thing. Did you gain any insights

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about yourself and your own journey watching
Steven go through his true confessions? Remember,

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I guess I'd have to think about
that one. I don't know that.

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I don't know if I honestly have
a great answer for that at this

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moment. I'll have to think about
that. It's a good question. I

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don't have an answer at this moment. Well, we'll come back to it

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again. One of the things that's
very clear as we move into episodes three

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and four is that this mysterious father
figure who may be the man that Jennifer

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Pando's babysat for Carrie Hendrix, carry
Hendrix and her boyfriend on again off again

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boyfriend, Tony Tobler, definitely deserve
a significant look, and that all of

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this talk about Jennifer's parents may actually
have created a focus that's aimed in the

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wrong direction. That Carrie Hendrix or
Tony Tobler could easily be involved in Jennifer's

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disappearance. And there's a third figure, a man named May who shows up

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in episodes three and four, and
mister May appears to have additional information which

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might steer the investigation towards Carrie Hendrix
or Tony Tobler and perhaps others. The

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one thing that I noticed, and
I'm not saying that this wasn't taken into

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account by James City County. It's
entirely possible that it was and they just

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didn't share it with the filmmakers.
But when you see something in a note

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that references a father figure, you
either look at the parents, which they

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did the boyfriend, you look at
other figures in their life. But they

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seem to have missed one particular arena
that they could have looked in where you

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would definitely find a father figure for
a fifteen year old girl, and that

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is school. I'm wondering if they
ever looked in the direction of any of

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the teachers at Lafayette High School.
And I'm not saying because I went to

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Lafayette and I had most of the
same teachers she did. I'm not saying

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there's any teacher at Lafayette who is
capable of that kind of violence. I

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really don't think that there is,
But I am curious if at any point

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during the investigation. They looked at
and it could be like a coach.

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I don't know. They didn't talk
about whether or not she did sports,

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but they didn't talk about coaches or
anything else like that. I'm just curious

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if they went immediately to parents' boyfriend
father figure but skipped school. As a

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teacher, when I think of father
figures and I think of teenagers, I

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immediately go to school. So I'm
curious if they ever went down that investigative

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route. You're listening to Mindover Murder. We'll be right back after this word

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from our sponsors. We're back here
at Mindover Murder. In the latter part

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of the investigation, as the year's
unfold, the case is taken over by

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a James City County Police detective named
Jake Rice, whose specialty is forensics.

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Although Jake Rice has now retired from
the James City County Police Department, he's

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still involved in the case and he
has a very high level of trust with

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Stephen. They appear to have a
good relationship on and off camera, and

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all these people are willing to appear
on camera, which I was actually very

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impressed by. Yeah, me too. We certainly didn't see that in the

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Colonial Parkway murders, and now of
the FBI or Virginia State Police investigators would

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appear on camera. I found it
interesting and to the credit of the James

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City County Police Department and others that
they were willing to appear on camera.

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The first investigator, Wendy Reid,
appears on camera and spoke at some length,

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and then Jake Rice also spoke at
some length on camera. Their backfill

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on what happened in the investigation,
including the moments that were less than stellars,

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the misfiling of the case file for
what appeared to be a period of

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years, and then its rediscovery and
being brought forward, which helped inform people

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like Jake Rice on how to move
the investigation forward. Again. Remember they

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weren't there back in nineteen eighty seven. Yeah, some of these people,

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including Jake Rice, had actually gone
to school with m hmm some of the

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people involved in this case, including
Jennifer Pandos herself, so that they were

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high school kids back then and of
course now they're adults in mid career.

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Their candor allowed us inside that investigation
to a certain extent, and I found

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that very helpful. I also immediately
noticed, Hey, Wow, they have

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law enforcement people willing to talk on
camera, because we never ever had that.

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If I'm remembering correctly, we had
a former Virginia State Police investigator on

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to talk about the case, but
certainly we did not have anybody currently working

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on Colonial Parkway, and I don't
think we had any of the former castations

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from the FBI, no, unfortunately. I was also very interested in the

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fact that they included some I don't
know that interrogation's the right word, I

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guess interview footage from the Times that
Investigator Reid was speaking to missus Pandos.

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I was surprised but also pleased that
they had footage of that that they were

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willing to share. Yeah, they
shared some of the footage from Margie's hypnosis

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session. There was a lot more
like archival here, we're putting you in

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the investigation room footage involved in the
documentary. I was very glad to see

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it, because we certainly didn't have
it with ours. I was very struck

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by the fact that the decision by
James City County Police to release that footage

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probably much more clearly indicated that they
did not suspect the mother of involvement.

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The interrogation footage, and some of
that got very heated and went after her,

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trying to push her off her story. They offered her immunity in exchange

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for information, and of course she
turned them down because she says she doesn't

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know anything about Jennifer's disappear. And
the hypnosis footage, which we discussed earlier,

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is very striking. What, of
course, isn't made available to the

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filmmakers are the interrogations or interviews that
may have taken place of people that I

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think are now regarded as much more
likely suspects. Yes. Yeah, the

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focus shifts in the third and fourth
episodes to people that probably deserve a much

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closer look in terms of do these
people know anything about the disappearance of Jennifer

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Pandos. My guess is there's very
interesting footage of those interrogations and discussions unless

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they've lawyered up and refused to move
forward with any kind of discussion with law

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enforcement. I am interested in the
fact that there was no interview footage of

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Ron Pandos of law enforcement talking to
Ron Pandos. Certainly the filmmakers were able

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to get him in his own house
discussing things like that. Sometimes with the

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third wife, sometimes without. But
for all that we watched Margie go up

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against investigators a number of different times, we never saw that with Ron,

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and I would be very interested to
know what he was like, how he

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would have responded when put under pressure
from investigators. I really would have liked

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to see that. That's a fly
on the wall moment for me, and

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we never did get to see it. And certainly in the early going of

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Burden of Proof, Ron Pandos appears
to be, at least from the perspective

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of his son Stephen, suspect number
one. My guess is that there is

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footage of Ron Pandos, who's a
difficult, kind of prickly personality. He's

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00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:47,839
not a nice man. As I've
said, he doesn't come across as particularly

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00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,960
caring individual. He's got a lot
of rough edges and a lot of attitude.

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At the same time, he's been
accused of murder, not necessarily formally

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as far as we know, but
his I certainly believed for years, if

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not decades, that he was responsible
for the disappearance of his daughter, which

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more than likely makes him a murderer, and he kept as we had mentioned

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in our previous episode, he kept
making these really odd statements. Hypothetically,

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I hit her, she hit her
head and it killed her. And he

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at one point even said, oh, let's get a plane, I'll take

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you to the body who says that
exactly? Who says that, if you

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had nothing to do with your daughter's
death, why do you say that.

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I was so floored by both of
those statements, the hypothetical and maybe he's

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just being a jerk. But then
let's get on an airplane and I'll take

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you. And then of course he
backs up and recants and says, no,

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he can't do that. And I'm
not sure how he got himself to

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00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:56,000
that place. If he's really not
involved, How in the world would you

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say something like that. I know
sometimes that in other investigations with serial killers

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and others, we've seen people who
will string law enforcement investigators along. Part

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of what they're looking for is just
a way to get out of that jail

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cell, even if it's just for
a day or two, to be put

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on a plane and taken to another
location and march around in the woods and

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fail to identify the right location where
someone's remains might be found. You can

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make a case that prisoner who's probably
bored out of their mind, is probably

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00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:36,519
looking at this as a short term
vacation, get outside, see some beautiful

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00:26:36,519 --> 00:26:40,799
scenery and get marched around in the
woods or something with a bunch of law

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00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:45,400
enforcement people, which I guess from
their perspective be sitting in a jail cell.

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Now that I'm thinking about it,
this is literally just coming to me

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as we're sitting here talking. We
know that Margie Pandas was offered in immunity

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00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,759
deal, and it was immunity for
everything up to homicide. They were like,

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00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:00,240
well, forgive anything up until the
point that you say your kilter and

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00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,079
then it's off the table. Was
Ron Pandos ever offered an immunity deal.

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I never got that impression. I
didn't think so, But I'm really curious.

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It's like, why would you offer
it to one parent and not the

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other if you think that they're in
cahoots. I believe that a lot of

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situations in law enforcement, you're looking
for the partner, the facilitator, the

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00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:25,839
second tier person, the one who's
going to flip to flip exactly one,

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00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:33,079
the principle who's responsible for that particular
crime. And since law enforcement often doesn't

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00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:40,319
have another way of breaking a case
and identifying a responsible person, they will

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00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:47,319
say to the partner the second the
weak link, the weak link, tell

329
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,200
us what happened, and we'll give
you immunity, or we'll give you some

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00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,160
sort of deal. I don't think
they would have ever done that with Ron

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Pandos, because I believe that not
just Steven Pandos his son, but law

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enforcement suspected that the father was involved
in this disappearance and likely homicide. Very

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interesting dynamics at play here as the
series moves toward its inevitable conclusion. And

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we're not going to spoil this for
anybody, although anybody who's been following the

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00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,039
press on this probably knows who the
suspect is going to end up being.

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00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,960
But I'm very interested in how this
is going to resolve itself. They had

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00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:29,480
mentioned at the very end that there
is still lab work being done. There

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00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,119
is still some DNA testing that they're
trying to do. I am very curious

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00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:38,400
to see if this case can be
resolved. Jake Rice, the investigator,

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00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,519
had said he thinks it's a solvable
case. It does sound like a solvable

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00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:47,559
case. I think they're really going
to need to do some of the best

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00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,720
DNA testing that they possibly can to
see if they can get something off of

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the note after all this time.
All that being said, this is a

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case with significant challenges though. There's
a limited amount of forensic evidence, and

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it isn't like they have dozens and
dozens of choices in terms of moving this

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00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:15,960
case forward. They've done handwriting analysis, they've done language analysis, they've done

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DNA testing. I certainly sympathized with
Steven Pando's making phone calls to jke Rice

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asking for updates, asking if the
test results had come back from the lab.

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They were doing testing at what sounded
like the FBI lab as well as

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at private labs, And the weeks
go by, and he keeps looking for

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00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,200
answers. Boy, that sounded so
familiar. There's a limited amount of evidence

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remaining. They're going to have to
get really lucky, and they're going to

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have to create some of their own
luck in order to move this case forward.

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No one's ever been formally charged in
this case, even though it's very

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00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:03,200
evident that they have strong suspects.
They have a much clearer idea of what

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00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:08,400
happened the night that Jennifer disappeared.
There's no slam dunks here. They are

357
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,400
going to have to work very hard
and they're going to have to be lucky

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00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,599
in order to move this case forward. Now, I would appeal to our

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00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:21,359
local audience listening here in the area, and that goes especially for anybody in

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the Williamsburg James City County area.
If you know anything with relation to the

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Jennifer Pando's case or any of the
people involved in this case, please do

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00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:36,480
not hesitate to reach out to the
James City County Police and offer what you

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00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:40,839
know as part of this investigation.
I think we would love to see Stephen

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finally have the answers that he is
looking for in this case. One of

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the key areas that's mentioned in the
documentary is that there is a suspicion that

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construction materials could have been stolen from
construction sites. So if you know anything

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about that, this would have been
in the nineteen eighty seven time frame.

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This would have involved theft of large
barrels and the theft of acid. And

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I don't think I want to get
any more graphic than that, but if

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you know anyone, if you were
a four person on a construction site in

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the Williamsburg area in nineteen eighty seven, that suffered losses involving acid used for

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cleaning brick. Obviously it can have
nefarious uses as well, and the theft

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of probably fifty five gallon drums which
obviously would have been used to place the

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acid in those drums. That would
be something that the James City County Police

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Department would be very interested in hearing
about the same time. These suspects that

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are mentioned in the latter part of
the documentary, Carrie Hendricks, who was

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the man who had used Jennifer as
a babysitter. Her former boyfriend Tony Tobler

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00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:07,759
is also mentioned as a strong suspect, and Charlie May who's actually quite distinctive

379
00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:13,359
he only has one arm. He
shows up very prominently in the latter episodes

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00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:20,759
and provides additional detail about what he
suspects may have happened. If more about

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00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:27,000
any of these individuals from that nineteen
eighty seven timeframe, there's a possibility this

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00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:31,799
could be helpful to the James City
County Police Department. Will include in the

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00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:39,079
show notes how to contact the investigators. We believe anyone around the world will

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00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,680
enjoy watching Burden of Proof, but
we know we have a lot of listeners

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00:32:44,839 --> 00:32:50,000
in the Williamsburg and Virginia area.
If you know anything about the disappearance of

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00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:54,519
Jennifer Pendos, now's the time to
come forward. Absolutely. We hope you'll

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00:32:54,559 --> 00:33:00,480
join us again next week as we
continue our exploration of the Burden of Proof,

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00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:06,599
HBO documentary and the disappearance of Jennifer
Pandos. In our next episode,

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we'll be featuring an in depth conversation
with retired investigator Wendy Reid, who was

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the lead in the Jennifer Pandos disappearance
for several years. The following episode will

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00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:23,400
have an exclusive conversation with Stephen Pandos, brother of Jennifer, and filmmaker Cynthia

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00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:29,599
Hill, who directed and produced HBO's
Burden of Proof. Please let us know

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00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,359
what you think on our social media
feeds. You can find Mindover Murder on

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00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:39,640
Facebook, as well as our ongoing
conversation regarding the Colonial Parkway murders. That

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00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:43,920
is going to do it for this
episode of mind Over Murder. Thank you

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00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:57,799
so much for listening. We'll see
you next time. Mind Over Murder is

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00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:02,960
a production of Absolute Zero and Another
Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill

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00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,360
Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo
art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme

399
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:14,559
music is by Kevin mcleoud. Mind
Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral

400
00:34:14,599 --> 00:34:19,360
Space Media. You can follow us
on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

401
00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:22,920
You can also follow our page on
the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and

402
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,519
finally, you can follow Bill Thomas
on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six.

403
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,079
Thank you for listening to mind Over
Murder.