WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:09.919 Hey, books, Welcome to another episode of the Ruby Rogues podcast. This 2 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:14.199 week, I'm your host, Charles Maxwood and we have a special guests, 3 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:19.120 Fabio Akita, Fabio. Do you want to tell people how awesome you are 4 00:00:19.239 --> 00:00:23.000 and that I like you? Yeah? Thank you for having me again. 5 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:29.760 I think it's my third time maybe the show. So if you heard, 6 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:35.880 were talked about Crystal and Aliksture like five years ago, and from there, 7 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:42.560 I started a YouTube channel called Akitando here in Brazil. It's an all Portuguese 8 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:52.119 web YouTube channel devoted to programming techniques, the foundations of programming and from At 9 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.600 the same time, I still have my company we just called Minor forty two, 10 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:59.759 the software development boutique here in Brazil. We work primarily for us CO. 11 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:07.079 We have like eighty developers working full time in several projects coast to coast 12 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:14.439 the US and many people from the old days could probably remembered me from the 13 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.920 Ruby comf Brazil events as well. I was the former organizer of the event 14 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:25.000 until twenty sixteen. I think, so I've been around for a long time. 15 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:27.519 Yeah, yeah, and that's how I know you. I think we've 16 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:33.519 bumped into each other at conferences or you know, I've seen you speak at 17 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:37.000 different events and things like that, and so yeah, it's it's fun to 18 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:40.439 just kind of catch up. And you know, I sent you a message 19 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:47.439 on LinkedIn last week and we chatted for a little bit and so, yeah, 20 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:51.359 anyway, just great stuff. And we were talking. We were talking 21 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:53.000 about your YouTube channel, and I was like, that's cool. We should 22 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.760 just get on and talk about some of the things you were talking about on 23 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:01.760 the channel. And I'm always interested in the content game, right, So 24 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.200 how does that work? You know, how many people did you have listening 25 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:09.319 or watching and all that stuff? So do you want to just explain briefly 26 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:14.400 what the channel was about and then we short dive into some of the specifics. 27 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:19.759 Absolutely. So I was in the I was generating content from a very 28 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.400 long time. Actually my my blog. I was just checking the first blog 29 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:30.120 post I ever did. It was it's gonna it's gonna make eighteen years next 30 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:38.360 week, next Friday, actually on April five, the fifth, So it's 31 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:42.319 my my here in Brazil. My blog would be old enough to drink already. 32 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:47.759 So it's nice a long time and I've been doing the blog stuff. 33 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:53.280 I've been doing, as you said, the participating in events, doing as 34 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:59.719 a speaker. So I here in Brazil, I've been traveling around across the 35 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:05.759 county tree for many years, so I did like more than two hundred speeches 36 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:10.159 here in several different locations. And after that I had the conference, and 37 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:15.960 because of all that content generation stuff that I thought the next step could be 38 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:23.280 trying the video stuff and see how YouTube acually works and if it would be 39 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:29.000 any interesting for me to generate content on that. So I didn't have an 40 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.960 exact goal in mind, but I had some principles that I wanted to follow. 41 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:38.919 For example, it was early on I had in my mind that I 42 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:44.800 wouldn't want my channel to be monetized in terms of having sponsorships or selling products, 43 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:50.960 selling courses, particularly because one of the reasons I started the channel was 44 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:59.240 a reaction to the whole boom of online courses, especially here in Brazil, 45 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.919 where we had so much demand. The demand was so high for online courses 46 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:12.319 that many of them were borderline frauds and they were yeah, so like pay 47 00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:16.360 us in advance, you're gonna have twelve months of great courses. And then 48 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:20.759 people jump in and they see that it's like they were copying content from other 49 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:27.680 places, like other YouTube channels and stuff like that. So it was really 50 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:31.759 bad, and it was creating a really bad reputation among people that actually wanted 51 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:38.160 to teach about programming. So how do you separate who's good who's not good? 52 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:46.040 And many started to see the teaching community here in Brazil as at the 53 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:53.360 same level as cryptocurrency coaches and stuff like that. So I wanted to create 54 00:04:53.360 --> 00:05:01.800 a YouTube channel that primarily focused on not teach in terms of the classical step 55 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:09.240 by step procedural procedure, but more on terms of what is computer science, 56 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:16.680 Why all those boring subjects are actually interesting, How stuff that people don't really 57 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:23.920 get in the first couple of years in college, like algorithms, like calculus, 58 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:30.279 like all the boring stuff that is not creating real JS components. So 59 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:35.079 I wanted to do all that that stuff at the same time explaining more about 60 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:42.120 what the market is, how the careers work, how even a little bit 61 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:46.319 of how financial markets work, because the IT market is a part of the 62 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:53.399 bigger scale financial markets, and all the bubbles and all the hypes why we 63 00:05:53.560 --> 00:06:00.319 have bubble cycles, what's going on? So really get a a grasp of 64 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:06.720 the larger picture. Let's put it that way, while at the same time 65 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:14.319 diving deeper than most online courses in terms of explaining how computers work. What 66 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:18.759 is for example, what is UH low level coding? What is machine code? 67 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:29.319 And how how does that progress into larger languages or higher level languages? 68 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:36.480 Even getting as far as explaining what is UH? What is optimization? What 69 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:43.199 is performance? What is relevancy? How do you calculate relevancy? How does 70 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:47.079 Google? How is Google able to provide you everything you want to know in 71 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:51.680 the first couple of pages of the search results. So all of that stuff 72 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:57.959 I wanted to explain in a real deep way. So many of my videos 73 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:02.000 are more than an hour long, so I had, like, in five 74 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:09.360 years, I produced one hundred and fifty videos, give or take, and 75 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:14.319 most of them are on the range of an hour, a couple of them 76 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:20.879 an hour and a half. I actually started the channel without knowing the exact 77 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:28.720 structure, so I shot at two videos every week of fifteen to twenty minutes. 78 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.959 Then I started consolidating to one video a week of half an hour long, 79 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:39.560 then a video every two weeks of an hour long, and that format 80 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:45.839 stayed for three to four years. And what I wanted to do was to 81 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:50.240 not only explain all of that, but also mix with my own experience in 82 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:59.639 the working as a proper programmer, engineer, architect through the last thirty years. 83 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:05.399 My career starts in the early nineties, and I think I had enough 84 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:15.480 experience to explain what happens in your whole career starting from college all the way 85 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:22.240 to becoming an entrepreneur content generator. Because another frustration that I had was many 86 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:28.720 people starting those online courses didn't even have like five years working properly as a 87 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.080 programmer, and they were explaining, I'll teach you advanced stuff that Google wants. 88 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:37.919 So I'm saying, no, you won't, and I'll explain why. 89 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.720 So k, that was the gist of it. That's awesome. Yeah, 90 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.799 just talking a little bit about you know, how some of this goes together. 91 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:54.960 I mean, we've been we've been producing Ruby Rogue since what twenty eleven, 92 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:01.399 so you know, we're we're almost thirteen years here, and uh yeah, 93 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.240 it's it's interesting to see where people find the value, right and you 94 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:11.240 know, that level of experience. We've had a number of just highly experienced 95 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.120 people as hosts on the show, and it makes a huge difference, and 96 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:20.000 you you can figure out pretty quickly whether or not somebody is the real deal 97 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:26.639 or not. So and I think that's important. The whole course thing kind 98 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:31.879 of well not kind of. It really bothers me, But I don't know 99 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.480 that I have a whole lot more to say about it than what you said. 100 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.360 You know, if you're going to promise somebody something, deliver it. 101 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:48.919 But yeah, so let's dive into some of the aspects of algorithms and career 102 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:52.360 decisions and things like that, because what I find is I'm talking to a 103 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:56.720 lot of people who are at a crossroads at their you know, where they're 104 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:00.799 working, right, And so for some people it's hey, I'm new or 105 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:05.000 new ish trying to decide what to learn, which direction to go, what 106 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.039 technology to use, things like that. And then the other group that I 107 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.320 seem to be talking to quite a bit more these days is people who have 108 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.039 been laid off, right, And so, hey, I've been programming in 109 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:24.759 rails for you know, teen years, and you know, I'm having trouble 110 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.600 finding a job. And you know, first of all, you know, 111 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:35.679 they're not understanding the economic forces at work that kind of put us in this 112 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.200 position. But then also you know, just the what do I do about 113 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.679 it? So let's kind of take these in reverse order for the people who 114 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:46.840 are out of work, right. I actually did a Twitter space this morning 115 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.159 and talk to some folks about who were, you know, between jobs, 116 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.039 about what they were doing. And it's tough out there, It's really tough. 117 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:00.919 So if you're sitting there between jobs, know, maybe you're Ruby or 118 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:07.399 rails developer, what do you recommend people do? Yeah, so this is 119 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.159 a question that many people having everywhere, not only in the United States, 120 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:15.879 here in Brazil as well. We had our fair share of big layoffs as 121 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.200 well in the Oh I'm sure. Yeah, So a lot of people are 122 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:28.120 are struggling to find good jobs nowadays. So and that was another pillar of 123 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.799 my channel. My channel started in August of twenty eighteen, So since twenty 124 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:39.639 eighteen, I was already because I'm not only a programmer, not only a 125 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:46.399 company owner entrepreneur, I also invest in the financial market, so food disclosure 126 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:52.039 that I am an investor stock in the stock market as well, and I 127 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:58.440 was the way I see how we got here is in two thousand and eight, 128 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:05.080 we had that big economic yeah, housing bubble. It was a disaster. 129 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.240 People were foreseeing the end of times and stuff like that, and we 130 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:16.080 were able to jump back in. And actually the decade that followed two thousand 131 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:22.559 and eight was possibly the best decade that the technology market has ever seen. 132 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:28.840 So not only we had a fast recovery, but we also had a big 133 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.320 breakthroughs. For example, it was in two thousand and eight two thousand and 134 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.480 nine that the whole mobile ecosystem was actually built. We had the long to 135 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:43.960 the app store, then we had the big apps such as Uber, Airbnb, 136 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:50.960 and all of those actually started around that time, and the demand for 137 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:56.799 technology grew very fast, and many considered programming as the kind of like a 138 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:05.879 savior more less to that financial crisis and going back up creating new opportunities, 139 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.200 new markets that never existed before. For example, for people that could now 140 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:20.120 work for making deliveries for DoorDash, or renting their houses apartments at Airbnb and 141 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.919 stuff like that. So created a whole new market for many people, not 142 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:30.159 only in the programming space, but the the ecosystem as a whole. So 143 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:37.960 twenty fourteen, I think it was the peak where the awareness of programming caught 144 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:43.399 up to the mainstream. Many people was wondering what the hell is this programming 145 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:48.399 thing that I'm hearing about all the time? New millionaires, new billionaires coming 146 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:54.039 out of nowhere. So everybody wanted to jump in this bandwagon. That's when 147 00:13:54.159 --> 00:14:00.000 we started. We start to see the rise of the boom of online courses, 148 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:07.159 coaches, uh, workshops, whatever, uh trying to sell to a 149 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:13.639 whole new generation about this uh gold mine called programming. So many people that 150 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:20.720 wouldn't consider programming as their first option started to jump into this market. And 151 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.639 the whole, the whole marketing approach that I think was very, very wrong 152 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:31.679 was that all programming is too easy. Anyone can do it. If you 153 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:37.000 just copy and paste to follow these simple steps, you can build things that 154 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:43.480 Google wants and they will hire you for whatever, uh whatever you wanna you 155 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:50.080 want as your payment, and it's gonna work. So we and more than 156 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:56.639 that, we because of the financial pressure the way the governments and the the 157 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.679 Fed, for example, they tackle that problem. So interest rates went to 158 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:09.639 all time lows. That man, that many many, most of the money 159 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:16.159 that would be on treasury bonds started to flood the markets. So now we 160 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:26.240 have liquidity for lots of investments in very dubious entrepreneurships. And it was exactly 161 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:31.360 like in the year two thousands with the Internet bubble. We saw that if 162 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.000 you were a programmer back in those days, I saw that in the year 163 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.360 two thousand. I saw that in twenty ten as well, So it was 164 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:45.320 the same. It was the same motivation, was the same hype, but 165 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:50.600 much bigger this time. And because of that, I think twenty eighteen, 166 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:56.120 I was starting to see cracks in the model. It couldn't last forever. 167 00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:03.919 You can't just generate an army of people that knows not a lot more than 168 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:10.919 copy and pasting things into a text editor and calling it programming. So there's 169 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:15.120 a limit to where you can go. And the limit came, and I 170 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:19.759 think the whole then we had the pandemic, and the pandemic instead of instead 171 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:26.200 of popping that bubble, it actually expanded it. People doubled down on technology 172 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:33.200 during the pandemic because people are staying at home now more than ever. Apps 173 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.679 and technology were again the safe haven. So people were staying at home, 174 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:45.639 receiving deliveries through door buying, through Amazon, watching Netflix, doing work, 175 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:52.879 using zoom calls and all those startups. They doubled in price and they the 176 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:59.519 demand for that was so big that they doubled the amount of people they were 177 00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:04.839 hiring. So from two thousand twenty one to twenty twenty two, many of 178 00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:11.319 those tech companies doubled their headcount. So it was crazy like that. But 179 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.319 then we had the big crash. Inflation came in, interest rates went up, 180 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:21.680 so now liquidity was out. There were no more liquidity in the market. 181 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:26.400 And how most of those tech startups they didn't have any profit. They 182 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:30.480 were depending on the next round of investment that never came. So now we 183 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:37.759 are entering twenty twenty two and most of those companies were having to do big 184 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:44.160 mass layoffs, and now we had dozens of thousands of people without a job, 185 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:51.039 and they were all I wouldn't say they were food. I think many 186 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:55.519 of those people they knew what they were getting into, but they had that 187 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.559 mindset that was, yeah, I think the future is going to be that 188 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:04.200 easy, and that's fine. I don't need to invest more than that because 189 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:10.920 I get paid. I have a job and it pays me well until it 190 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.440 doesn't. And many most of those people, they don't care a lot about 191 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:22.000 how the money comes in. They just they just assume that it's a thing 192 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:27.240 that happens. They don't think about, oh, does my employer actually has 193 00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.559 any profits? Does my work has any value? So they don't make those 194 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:40.680 reflections on their actual work, and sooner or later, bubbles like that explode. 195 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:45.319 In twenty twenty two, I think it was the last drop in the 196 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:51.240 bucket and it came crashing down. It's still not a crash like it wasn't 197 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:56.359 the year two thousand, two thousand and one. It's not close to that 198 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:03.480 because we're still many of those companies are still not profitable, but they still 199 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.599 have investment, they still have some hype. So thet is still going, 200 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:15.240 particularly in the AI space now because of what we have with GPT and and 201 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:22.880 BD and stuff like that. So most of those investments are moving towards companies 202 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:29.480 like Snowflake and other tech startups that are focused on that, and now those 203 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:33.160 we can talk about that later. But that's a new bubble. But the 204 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:40.960 web development and mobile apps development bubble kind of crash it down and correct it 205 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.559 a little bit. Still not as bad as one could have predicted. But 206 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:51.640 because of that, I think we now have the situation where competition is more 207 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.519 difficult. It's more difficult to find good jobs. The demands are more. 208 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:03.119 People are expecting more of the grammars. Yeah, absolutely so, And I 209 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.920 think you explained it really well. Where do we go from here? I 210 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.599 mean, and not just as a community, but you know, I mean, 211 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.839 I'm talking to some people that are I mean, they're really scared, 212 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:21.440 really worried, right, They they don't know where to go next, and 213 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:26.000 yeah, so what do they do? Yeah. So the other thing is 214 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:33.519 during that exuberance phase where most tech companies had all the money they wanted, 215 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:40.839 the technology kind of reflect that reality as well. So from two thousand, 216 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:47.720 i'd say twenty twelve until twenty eighteen, more or less something like that, 217 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:55.079 we had a lot of new for example, web frameworks doing exactly the same 218 00:20:55.160 --> 00:21:00.680 thing, just they were just inventing reinventing the wheel all the time, especially 219 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.880 in the front end space, so you had like from React all the way 220 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:10.279 you spelt going through Typescript, new Angular, whatever. So it was a 221 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:17.079 lot of effort that was wasted. It was a big It was one of 222 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:22.880 the biggest waste of times I've ever seen in the programming world because we were 223 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:29.400 just discussing the At the end of the day, we were just discussing how 224 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.119 do I change the cause of the button all over against So it was the 225 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.319 little going on, huh, A lot of bike shedding, A lot. 226 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:44.279 I say ninety percent of all the discussions that we had the past ten years 227 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.920 in the front end space were big bike shod. Of course, we had 228 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.920 a good, good evolutions, but it was incremental evolutions not We didn't. 229 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:59.759 It took ten years and we were still discussing the same CSS problems and stuff 230 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:03.359 like that. So we didn't fix anything. We just made it more more 231 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:08.559 complicated, and we could afford having more complicated because we had an army of 232 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:15.200 people that we could that we could use just to actually change the color them 233 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:23.599 buttons for example. But now now the discussion it shifts to efficiency. So 234 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:30.839 again, when when we are closer to a recession where money is not easy 235 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.720 anymore, where you don't have free lunch, you actually have to start thinking 236 00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:44.279 how do I properly invest this revenue money that I just got. I can't 237 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:52.960 just go spending whatever. So efficiency becomes the new priority. And efficiency is 238 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.599 not something that you just learn through a course. There's no courses online that 239 00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.880 I'm going to teach you efficiency in penny steps that's not how it works, 240 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:08.680 productivity, efficiency, stuff like that. So only people that actually uh invested 241 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:15.960 the time to learn the foundation of stuff can understand optimization, for example, 242 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:21.920 can understand what to cut and still get good results, not what to add, 243 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.720 but what to cut off and make a bigger difference. I usually I 244 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:32.279 spent a lot of years saying that the best code a programming can do is 245 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.160 a zero code, because you're not adding new bugs, you're not adding maintenance, 246 00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:40.960 you're not adding a lot of stuff that is actually cost and not But 247 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:47.680 most of the beginner programmers they think that adding stuff is actually the same as 248 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:52.599 adding value. But that's not the same, and that distinction only comes with 249 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:57.079 a lot of practice, a lot of study, a lot of patients actually 250 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:03.920 caring about your craft to know what to do at this time and in this 251 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:11.599 this kind of market, the market's gonna it's gonna reward people that knows the 252 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:18.000 craft properly and can deliver actual value instead of just by shedding. Right. 253 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.079 So, I mean, there's a lot that you said here, and I'm 254 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:27.079 gonna try and summarize it so I can ask the next question. But effectively, 255 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:32.839 what you're saying is is that so these companies, they just had all 256 00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:37.359 this money, so they just poured money into things that they didn't even necessarily 257 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.160 need to measure as far as its effectiveness for what they were doing. And 258 00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:47.880 you know that's the example is changing the color of the button, but you 259 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:51.359 know, it could be any number of things, right, And so now 260 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.680 what we're getting down to is now that money's less easy to come by. 261 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:59.160 That's what you were talking about earlier with the liquidity, and you know the 262 00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:03.960 ability of these companies to raise money, whether it's through investment or other means. 263 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:11.480 They're now letting people go because that money has to go further, so 264 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.920 it actually has to matter more what they're working on or so they can't bike 265 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:22.559 shed over. You know, do we use the next greatest react blah blah 266 00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:27.960 blah unless it's going to help us achieve these outcomes and you know, do 267 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:33.960 some kind of work for us. So the question I asked was what do 268 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:38.200 Ruby on rails developers do if they're one of those people that got laid off? 269 00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:44.279 And it seems like the implication is learn how to be able to bring 270 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:47.759 that value to what you're doing. Right, So you need to be able 271 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:55.039 to demonstrate that you can do more than bike shed over what tool to use 272 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:59.079 or what hosting to put it on, or things like that, and actually 273 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:06.920 identify areas in the code base where adding code ads value, or where removing 274 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.680 code ads value, or where there may be a better solution than sort of 275 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.599 the obvious thing you would reach for. Am I reading that right? Is 276 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:19.359 that? Is that what you're saying yes in for for us the Ruby on 277 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:26.880 Rails community, I think this is again a good a good timing and Ruby 278 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:32.640 on Rails is still one of the only, if not the only web framework 279 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.000 that works stop to bottom, from front end to back end. It's an 280 00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:44.079 entire solution, uh instead of just having pieces and that I have to search 281 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:48.680 myself and try to weave together in some Jerry ragged way. So I think 282 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:55.039 Ruby RAI is is still the most cohesive web frameworks out there, and uh 283 00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:02.920 DH has been focusing on bringing on trying to get rid of all that complex 284 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:07.960 especially on the front end side, script side. It of course is controversial, 285 00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:11.079 of course there's lots of things that we don't agree, but inters of 286 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:18.680 the general the general vision, I think it's correct in terms of simplifying getting 287 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:26.440 rid of all the bike shedding discussions and making possible again to be a full 288 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.640 a full not only just a front end developer, not only a back end 289 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.119 developer, but a full stack developer. I think that term is going to 290 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.559 come back again because it was impossible to be a full a full tech developer 291 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:47.240 because only in the front end side you had to know like twelve different web 292 00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:53.000 frameworks and a combination of like thirty other note packagesings. Yeah, it was 293 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.240 a matrix of stuff that you needed to know. It was impossible. What 294 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:04.720 CSS framework should I use? Uh, Tailwind whatever, Bootstrap again. Yeah, 295 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:10.079 So it was crazy. It is it's still crazy, and I think 296 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:15.240 we we are going to I hope we're going to see a more focused effort 297 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:21.559 on things that actually work, instead of trying trying to discuss a new re 298 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:26.960 implementation, a news velt, a new react again and again again, instead 299 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.160 of of getting stuff done and in the in the idea of getting stuff done 300 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:38.759 again again, we go back to the roots of the agile movement. The 301 00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:45.640 agile movement itself kind of died ten years ago because of because of that that 302 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:51.440 situation. So in terms of discussing things that doesn't add value, people are 303 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:56.200 discussing, uh, they were, they were they were thinking that efficiency was 304 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:02.920 having a report where I estimated ten points whatever and I delivered ten point. 305 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.240 Wow, we're efficient. But that's not efficiency. Efficiency is actual value, 306 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:15.400 not not trying to fit useless metrics into a report and calling that efficiency. 307 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:22.079 So I think all of those things are coming into into a discussion. And 308 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.240 again because we get we need to get rid of all of that and start 309 00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:33.079 getting things done, which ironically is the first thirty seven Signals book, getting 310 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:38.960 getting real to get things done properly. And uh, maybe we're going back 311 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:44.640 to that. And if we are Ruby and rails, is uh in the 312 00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:52.400 best position to be again the one that starts to deliver value faster with more 313 00:29:52.519 --> 00:30:00.119 quality. We've maintainability in mind because we had all those agile principles imbuilding to 314 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.640 the web framework. We never opted out of testing, for example, because 315 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.640 oh, no one needs to test, because we have an army of people 316 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.440 that can do manual testing. So many companies were doing that. They were 317 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:17.000 calling that QA. They had like one hundred people just to start clicking things 318 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:23.480 because they the developers were too important to waste time doing unit tests or automated 319 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:30.440 test. So yeah, that's the thing that actually happened. I saw companies 320 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:38.240 that were there were mandating no testing code because we have a QA department company 321 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:44.920 that's responsible for that, and developers are are in short supply. We don't 322 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:49.400 want them doing testing stuff. We need them coding new features, new features, 323 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.880 whatever they are, and turn code as fast as possible. And that 324 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.839 was the mindset a couple of years ago. And I think now we're going 325 00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:06.279 to go back to developers that can deliver features that work with minimal bugs, 326 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:12.400 with test coverage, with proper designs in mind, with proper principles in mind. 327 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:18.359 So all of that becomes the new the new priority. And when we 328 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.240 say that the bubble crash that we are now coming to recession layoff stuff like 329 00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:30.519 that, it feels doom and gloomy. Uh, But actually that's an opportunity 330 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:37.519 because anyone that can leverage that position out of uh uh create creating companies or 331 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:45.759 creating tools or creating whatever that adds value, that brings back productivity, efficiency, 332 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:51.160 profits, stuff like that, they're gonna be better positioned to uh serve 333 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:55.400 the next wave, whatever that is, because that there's gonna be a next 334 00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.440 wave. I don't know if it's AI, if it's whatever, but if 335 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:06.599 you have that mindset instead of the let's waste time with whatever, you're gonna 336 00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:17.799 be better positioned to conquer that new wave whatever that is, right, So 337 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:22.720 I'm just gonna make it really simple. Then are you telling the Ruby people 338 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:28.359 to just hang in there or are you Are there other concrete steps that they 339 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:32.759 can take to position themselves for what's coming. Yeah, I think the Ruby 340 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:40.880 community, the original mindset of the Ruby community shifted because of that period of 341 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:45.359 time that people are not paying attention to quality anymore to efficiency. So it 342 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:52.160 was not Ruby and Rails was not a great framework in that scenario because oh, 343 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:57.000 I can do micro services and Go, I can rewrite stuff in Rust, 344 00:32:57.160 --> 00:33:00.079 I can rewrite my front ten ten times, in tend to web frameworks 345 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.279 and all of these things so many times, so many times. So I 346 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:15.000 think most true rails developers were disheartened to not be able to participate in that 347 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.599 bigger discussion because'bion rails was not sexy enough because it was too efficient, 348 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:24.400 It was too easy, it was not flashy enough. It was not wasting 349 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:30.079 time, So we needed to waste more time to be flashy, and I 350 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:36.680 waste more resources. Why be efficient if we have money to spare, but 351 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:43.359 now that we don't, I think the message is all of the principles that 352 00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:49.160 rails are built upon built over. I think those are now the new priorities, 353 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.079 and I think one can be more motivated to learn more about how rails 354 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.559 work, how the ecosystem worked, how we did things back in two thousand 355 00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:04.599 and eight when we launched stuff that was influential like GitHub for example, every 356 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:09.320 every CI platform that we know was basically made with Ruby and rails. So 357 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:15.639 we built all the proper tools that people dismissed for ten years, and now 358 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:22.119 they're there again important. So I think anyone that's beginning in the rugby community 359 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:29.320 should learn the proper values, what quality is, what proper coding is, 360 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:36.280 uh and not, and not try to jump into whatever new high comes up 361 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.880 just because it's new. But Ruby and rails now is not the new kid 362 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:45.519 on the block, but I think it still holds as one of the bastions 363 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:52.360 of the best practices that I hope are going to start to be more valid 364 00:34:52.360 --> 00:35:00.960 in companies. Again makes sense, So I'm hearing the you think that Ruby 365 00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:07.840 and Ruby on rails is a good longer term bet so, Yeah, So 366 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:13.519 where are things going to go from here, right, I mean, if 367 00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:17.079 I'm betting on Ruby on rails, I know some people have to go find 368 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:21.559 work now, and they maybe not be able to find the rails jobs, 369 00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.960 right because some of them went away. So should they be picking up things 370 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:32.360 like AI or yeah? And that's that's another question that I hear often. 371 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:37.800 What should I start learning or what books should I read or what courses should 372 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:44.519 I do? Because it's urgent, I don't have time to waste and I 373 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.599 need a new gig right now? What should I do? And that's that's 374 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.760 the Unfortunately, if I had that answer, I would be selling it for 375 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:58.159 a million dollars because no one has it, right, Let me try to 376 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.800 share what I think about it. Of course, this is really just my 377 00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:08.840 opinion, and there is no proper way. I think most people they they 378 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:15.599 they are so insecure in feeling that they are not able to decide that that 379 00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:20.679 they try to hear someone like me, someone like you, all the other 380 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:27.920 influencers asking them for that kind of answer, and there is no answer. 381 00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:34.920 None of us can give an answer to everybody because each person's conditioner is a 382 00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.079 situation is going to be very very different. Maybe you are a father that 383 00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:45.280 has to provide for your family three kids. Maybe you're someone that is not 384 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.119 married, you live with your parents, your freelancer whatever, Maybe you have 385 00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:57.039 I don't know, loans to pay, and you have a one hundred thousands 386 00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:02.039 of different situations and there is no one answer that's gonna be good for everybody. 387 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:07.400 So in terms of principles, yes, you should start learning. If 388 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:12.840 you don't know already, something that's very practical, something that can be used 389 00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:19.119 in a couple months, you're gonna be productive in something. There's a big 390 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:25.239 list of stuff that you should probably know, web frameworks, devop tools, 391 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:31.360 all of the traditional things that most online courses already have. You should start 392 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.440 learning some of that. It's gonna take you, I don't know, six 393 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:39.199 months, maybe a year. It feels like a long time, but that's 394 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:45.639 not a long time. It's a very very short window. And try to 395 00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:51.559 find your next gig, your next job, whatever that is. If you 396 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:57.800 are able to jump into a new job, then you use that time to 397 00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:05.440 not only get better at that those specific tasks, but also trying to experiment 398 00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:10.159 with new stuff that are not gonna be used in your current job. So 399 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:16.760 be it AI, be it content generation, be it social network stuff, 400 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:22.000 I don't know, something that feels like a hobby, but you actually have 401 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.159 to study a little bit more. And again there's no course on that. 402 00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.119 Maybe you like cryptocurrencies, maybe you like the new crop of AI tools, 403 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:36.280 I don't know. You can start reading books. There's no one single book, 404 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.599 there's no one single course that's gonna teach you all you need to know. 405 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:44.159 So you're gonna have to do experimentation. And this is the part that 406 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.679 I think most people are afraid of. When I say experimentation, it's exactly 407 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.119 as the word implies. You have to learn by trial and error. You're 408 00:38:52.239 --> 00:39:00.639 not gonna be able to target a specific learning program that is gonna be one 409 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.880 hundred percent correct, and you're not gonna waste any time that's not gonna happen. 410 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:10.000 Actually, most of the learning is gonna come from stuff that you do 411 00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:16.920 wrong instead of stuff that you think is right. I think the learning process 412 00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:22.800 is more productive when you're not afraid to make mistakes, because the mistakes are 413 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:30.679 the stuff that make you actually mature and grow. If you're not making mistakes, 414 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:36.960 you're not actually learning anything. It's impossible to just learn by reading a 415 00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:43.000 book and not actually trying to do something. You have to accept that you're 416 00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:47.800 gonna make mistakes. It's gonna feel like you're wasting time, and that's part 417 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:52.880 of the learning process and you have to accept that. The sooner one accepts 418 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:58.360 that, I think the faster they're gonna learn new stuff. Cool. You 419 00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:02.079 you talked little bit about if you're new to Ruby, you need to learn 420 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:08.400 these ideas and principles that were in vogue and important to learn ten years ago. 421 00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:13.719 Can can you kind of? And you've you've talked about some of those 422 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:17.960 as we've gone along, But what are those ideas that get you from you 423 00:40:17.960 --> 00:40:25.480 know, bike chadding to being a contributor that actually brings real value. Sure, 424 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:31.679 So, I think one of the first mistakes that beginners do is they 425 00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:39.280 think of languages or web frameworks or tools like sports teams, so they cheer 426 00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:45.800 for that team. They feel like they have to be loyal to that team. 427 00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:52.280 Some people actually tattoo the languages or frameworks whatever permanently because they feel like 428 00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:57.960 they own something, They owe something to those technologies. But technologists, at 429 00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:00.360 the end of the day, they're just simple tools. They are not different 430 00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:07.480 from hammers or screwdrivers. You never you're not gonna I don't think someone's gonna 431 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:14.360 tattoo a hammer just because it's your job to use a hammer. Yeah, 432 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:17.800 that would be silly. And it is silly to be loyal to a language. 433 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.559 Even though I love Ruby, love Ruby on rails, I'm not loyal 434 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:27.920 to it in terms of I'm gonna all my decisions are gonna be live or 435 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:32.280 die by Ruby. So it's not gonna be that. Languages to technologies are 436 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:37.800 every Every technology is a tool. It doesn't matter. For example, if 437 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.920 I like or dislike I don't know cryptocurrencies. Let's say, so that's something 438 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:46.639 that's controversial. I don't need to like bitcoin to actually learn the algorithms behind 439 00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:52.280 it. There's a lot of interesting stuff that many people don't even realize. 440 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.360 For example, in terms of Byzantine consensus, that's the same algorithm that we 441 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:06.000 use for distributed systems to actually have coherence in their communications. So you have 442 00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:09.880 to have some kind of consensus, and bitcoin is one. Maybe if you 443 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:16.559 like that that theme, you should use that to learn the underlying technologies behind 444 00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:22.480 it. The blockchain, it's basically learning to use hashing. If you don't 445 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:27.760 know hashing, you don't know cryptography, you need to know something like that. 446 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.920 If you don't know hashing, you don't know what it means if a 447 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.519 data is corrupt or not, you don't know how to index it. You 448 00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:38.519 don't know how to find that data in a bigger data set. So you 449 00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:45.840 have to learn the basics. And if you can use something that a theme 450 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.320 that you like to use and use it to learn the underlying technology, the 451 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:54.320 better because it's more practical than actually opening a cryptography book, going to the 452 00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:01.039 hashing chapter and trying to memorize what hashing means without a practical usage for that. 453 00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:07.719 So I think you should you should start at something practical and trying to 454 00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:14.480 go deep in the UH in the underlying foundations that make that thing work. 455 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:19.079 Once you understand what makes the work, you can apply it to other stuff. 456 00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:22.960 Then comes the creative part, the experimental part. Could I use this 457 00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:29.599 technology to this other thing? And then then you start to see uh. 458 00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:36.880 For example, the AI stuff GPUs were made for graphical stuff that it was 459 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:43.280 made for. CGI was made for games. Someone allow during during the evolution 460 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:49.599 of GPU's pot Oh, maybe I can use that to process large data sets 461 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:58.239 and do something with that. Because images are basically matrices of data. Uh 462 00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:02.039 in artificial intelligence deals with matrices of data. Maybe I can use the same 463 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:10.000 hardware and boom. Then you now have the Nvidia the Nvidia market going up 464 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:15.840 like crazy nowadays. So, but you never know. Someone had to try 465 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:21.840 that ten years ago to figure it out and make that work. No one 466 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:27.559 knew it could work. It was an experimental work. Not everybody can do 467 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:31.519 that kind of experimentation. But it's not as rocket sciencey as most people think. 468 00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:38.760 It's basically someone with a terminal open doing random code and some of that 469 00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:44.199 actually worked because he didn't know it wouldn't work, he just tried it. 470 00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:51.840 Most things actually work like that. It's not many people think that advanced stuff 471 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:58.199 like AI, for example, it's probably one hundred web coded people in a 472 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:05.239 war room focusing on trying to solve that problem. That's not how how innovation 473 00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.159 works. We don't. We don't actually do that. It's mostly people that 474 00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:15.079 that do not accept limits trying to push limits. I think that's h and 475 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:21.920 everybody has to start somewhere and your own limitations in your own learning process and 476 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:25.199 the prejudices of oh I can't do that. I don't think it's a good 477 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.119 value for my time. It's going to be a waste of my time. 478 00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.199 I'm not going to be able to achieve that. And every time you start 479 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:37.800 thinking about that, you're not pushing your limits. You're not practicing practicing pushing 480 00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:43.360 that limit, and that's how you become obsolete fast instead of actually learning the 481 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.719 learning process. And that's another thing that I've been explaining in my channel, 482 00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:52.400 because it's not obvious, is that people think the learning is receiving a list, 483 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:59.320 a checklist of stuff and reading through that stuff step by step, and 484 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:04.679 that is learning, and that is far from learning. Learning is problem is 485 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:10.039 learning how to solve problems. Learning how to learn is to actually problem solving. 486 00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:15.000 If you don't know how how to tackle a problem that you never saw 487 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:21.840 before, that was not documented anywhere, how do you tackle a problem that 488 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:25.519 you never solved before. It's not opening a book, it's not going step 489 00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:30.559 by step for some tutorial. You have to analyze that problem, you have 490 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:36.480 to see the boundaries, you have to experiment to hypotheses to see if it 491 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:42.400 works or not, and go gradually, step by step. Eventually you solve 492 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:47.639 that problem. And that's learning. Awesome. So we're kind of getting towards 493 00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:52.840 the end of our time. But going back to the YouTube channel, so 494 00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:58.440 did you just start putting content out and then people kind of found you or 495 00:46:58.519 --> 00:47:00.599 did you promote it in some way? And how many people did you have 496 00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:07.719 following along when you finally stopped making the content. Yeah, so I was 497 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:15.480 very late in the YouTube game. So there were already many software development focused 498 00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:21.320 channels or technology focused channels, so I was trying to figure out something that 499 00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:24.440 was different from most of them. So I was not going to do product 500 00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:30.039 reviews. I was not going to do easy tutorials because many channels were actually 501 00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:37.719 basically going to the website getting started tutorial and making a ten minute video with 502 00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:42.960 the step by step stuff. Then that's that's not valuable, that's not interesting 503 00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:47.360 because anyone can google the original source and just go there. So I wanted 504 00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:52.280 to do a more in depth analysis of the computer science and stuff, and 505 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.320 I didn't know exactly how to do that. But I hadn't in my mind 506 00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:01.760 that if I could reach I don't know, ten thousand subscribers in one year, 507 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.119 that would be my all time goal. Because I didn't I didn't know 508 00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:13.519 it was. I was starting from zero. I was able to reach the 509 00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:19.920 one hundred thousand in the first two years, so the silver plate came very 510 00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:25.719 early, actually, and the I didn't I didn't try to follow anything that 511 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:29.639 most people would say. So I was asking people and they would say, 512 00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:35.559 oh, do short videos, do easy to digest video with step by step 513 00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:42.079 stuff, all of those best practices that most people would repeat. Five years 514 00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:45.559 ago, I was hearing that and disagreeing and saying, I don't like that 515 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:52.480 format. I don't like easy to digest videos. I actually want. I 516 00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:57.760 actually want one video that tells me everything that is to know about that subject. 517 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.840 So I don't want to see a playlist with parts one through ten and 518 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:10.360 have to see introductions five minute long introductions and advertising or whatever. I just 519 00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:16.880 want something that's very no nonsense, not waste my time, very dense. 520 00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:20.880 And that's what I did. And by doing that, I didn't know that 521 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.880 many people actually wanted something like that. So five years ago, I say, 522 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:30.880 I'm going to do a one hour video with no interruptions, edited out 523 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:35.039 in a way that feels like I'm not even briefing. People say that most 524 00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:39.519 people on YouTube, they say that they play videos to x speed. My 525 00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:45.400 videos they say they playing in half the speed because otherwise they can't they can 526 00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:51.400 what I'm saying. And the whole, the whole, whole idea was to 527 00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:59.800 be the most comprehensive kinds of videos about a certain subject. And I have 528 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.440 all the scripts are all my blog that can on rails dot com blog. 529 00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:08.079 It has the video and the transcript if someone wants to read it through, 530 00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:13.559 especially if there's code, I think it's better. So I was. I 531 00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:19.039 wasn't making it for for sponsorship or for the clicks, and even then I 532 00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:22.800 was able. Now five years later, I had in my mind that I 533 00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:29.400 wanted to end the the my run in around five years. I didn't want 534 00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:32.079 to do a ten year career out of YouTube, especially because it was not 535 00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:39.039 my my prime. It's not my primary means of I don't get any money 536 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:44.280 from that, So it was not for the money. It was primarily to 537 00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:50.079 dump my brain into video format, uh and have like, how would I 538 00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:58.480 explain all my knowledge and experience about databases, or about how to optimize code, 539 00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:04.920 or how much low level coding works, or how cryptography works. And 540 00:51:05.079 --> 00:51:10.360 I did one single video and most two videos for all of those subjects. 541 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:16.079 And I think there's a point because my career is finite that I would reach 542 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:24.159 some corpus. That makes me satisfied about it. So five years later, 543 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:31.159 my channel now has four hundred twenty thousand subscribers, which I think it was 544 00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:37.119 good, but better than that. There are many channels even here in Brazil 545 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:43.239 that has six hundred thousand, maybe a million. But what is most important 546 00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:46.280 is the number of views in the videos themselves. It doesn't matter if you 547 00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:52.639 have a million subscribers, but each of your videos has just like five thousand 548 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:58.320 views or ten thousand views. So my videos were I was keeping the fifty 549 00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:01.320 thousand to one hundred thousand views per video as well, which I think is 550 00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:06.760 a good ratio for the number of subscribers, so I know that people were 551 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:14.559 actually watching it and not just not just browsing through. So I think I 552 00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:19.840 started with short ish videos fifteen to twenty minutes. It's not short at all. 553 00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:24.679 I think when people say short, I think they think ten minutes or 554 00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:30.760 less. For me, short was twenty to thirty minutes, and then my 555 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:35.239 normal videos would be an hour, and my longer videos would be an hour 556 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:43.599 and a half to two hours. Sometimes Oh wow, crazy, Well, 557 00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:47.159 we're kind of at the end of our time. But if people want to 558 00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.639 connect with you or see what you're doing these days, where do they find 559 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:58.559 you? So there's my blog akiton rails dot com. I'm still gonna post 560 00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:01.559 there even though my channel is exposed for the time being. Maybe I can 561 00:53:01.719 --> 00:53:06.960 I come back and do more videos, but I think the goal of having 562 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:14.360 a video a video collection of my knowledge and experience in computer size, I 563 00:53:14.440 --> 00:53:22.360 think it's largely complete. Uh. Then I'm mostly on ex Twitter, So 564 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:24.719 a kid on rails on Twitter, a kid on rails on Instagram, a 565 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:31.360 kid on rails on LinkedIn, so I'm usually posting new stuff. I'm currently 566 00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:37.920 discussing about the new AI stuff for Exampeople keep asking me, oh, is 567 00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:40.880 AI going to replace my job? And I have to explain to them what 568 00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:47.360 AI actually is and whatnot, and that that keeps the keeps me occupied for 569 00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:52.440 for for some time. Awesome. All right, Well, I'm gonna go 570 00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:54.960 ahead and roll us into the picks. You've been on the show before, 571 00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:58.880 so you know the drill there. I'm gonna start us off with picks. 572 00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:02.519 The first thing that I'm gonna pick is a card game, so I would 573 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:07.920 start with the board game. So do a card game this time it's called 574 00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:15.159 for sale. It came out in nineteen and ninety seven. It's a fast 575 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:19.880 game board game. Geek says it takes thirty minutes. It doesn't take thirty 576 00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.719 minutes to play. The game might take you thirty minutes the first time while 577 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:27.039 you figure it out, and even then, I doubt it has a board 578 00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:30.840 game weight of one point two five out of five. So you know, 579 00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:36.199 really really simple game. And essentially what you do is you start out with 580 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:42.880 a certain amount of money and you bid on different houses, right, So 581 00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:46.199 you have the lowest level house, which is level one, and that's a 582 00:54:46.280 --> 00:54:50.559 cardboard box in an alley, right, and then it goes all the way 583 00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:54.079 up to thirty and thirty is a space station right as a house. So 584 00:54:54.360 --> 00:55:00.320 you know, pretty broad range there, right, And so you're buying these 585 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:07.000 houses. And then what you do is in the next round the payments the 586 00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:09.639 checks come out, right, and so you pull out the number of checks 587 00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:15.320 per you know, number of players, and then you blind bid your house, 588 00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:21.039 so you know, if the highest is fifteen thousand, right, So 589 00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:23.679 if fifteen thousand comes out, you're probably dropping your thirty if you have the 590 00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:28.440 thirty, right, and you know, and then you're going to try and 591 00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:31.679 figure out Okay, well, you know he has the thirty and she has 592 00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:36.119 the twenty nine. I have the twenty eight. So if I put the 593 00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:38.639 twenty eight down to try and get the fifteen thousand, because the next one's 594 00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:43.880 a five thousand, and then bottom one was a two thousand, I you 595 00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:46.280 know, I'm probably gonna wind up with the five thousand or two thousand, 596 00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:51.880 So instead of using my really high one, maybe I'll drop seventeen and see 597 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:54.400 if I get the five thousand, right, because you get them in order 598 00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:59.679 of your value of your house. So anyway, fun game. Whoever has 599 00:55:59.679 --> 00:56:01.159 the most beneath the end wins. I mean, that's that's the whole game. 600 00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:09.360 The artwork's fun. Yeah, I really have enjoyed that. So and 601 00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:14.400 it's a quickie one that I've played with my buddies a bunch. I played 602 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:17.199 it for the first time at salt Con, which is local boarding game conference. 603 00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:23.480 So anyway, fun stuff there. I'm just trying to think through what 604 00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:30.159 else I've been Things have been nuts, because I would I'm involved politically here 605 00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:35.239 in Utah and been pretty involved in the whole process of getting people nominated and 606 00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:40.280 stuff like that. So yeah, anyway, I encourage people to get involved 607 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:45.199 in the political process. You know, I'm not going to cast any judgment 608 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:49.280 on either. You know, if you believe one way, go get involved. 609 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:53.519 Right if you believe different for me, go get involved. It's just 610 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:59.360 anyway. It's it's really fascinating way of getting into that. One thing that 611 00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:02.320 I have been used to reach out to delegates in the process here in Utah 612 00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:09.000 is a sass called clicks end, And I mean it's real simple, but 613 00:57:09.079 --> 00:57:13.639 you just import the phone numbers and then you can send the messages. So 614 00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.239 I sent out a message this morning encouraging people to come out for the school 615 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:23.000 board debate tomorrow. But incidentally, I'm also the moderator for so anyway, 616 00:57:23.320 --> 00:57:27.760 just just fun stuff like that that the party's putting on because I'm a party 617 00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:32.159 officer and so yeah, so I guess that's the other big thing that I'm 618 00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.519 into right now. How about you, Fabia, what do you have? 619 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:43.119 What do you want to pick? It can be any subject, anything, 620 00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.880 yep. Okay, So, as I said, I think nowadays, what 621 00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:52.679 has been fascinating me the most is the reaction. Apart from the all the 622 00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.280 political stuff I tried to see what people are doing. But I'm not as 623 00:57:57.079 --> 00:58:00.800 active because especially here in Brazil, was very very polarized, and whatever you 624 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:07.480 say, people are just going to try to their way. And that's that's 625 00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:14.320 why I didn't mention any parties or any movements part because it's not really relevant 626 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.559 to what we're talking about here. Yeah, and again, as always, 627 00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:21.320 I try to be as welcome as possible to people to from any side. 628 00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:27.000 Usually I'm trying to discuss technology and stuff like that through the social networks because 629 00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:30.800 I think it's first, it is easier because it's technical. I think we 630 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:36.599 can we can have fun discussions and use the full one. Especially as we 631 00:58:36.719 --> 00:58:39.920 were discussing, people are trying to figure out what's the best to what's not. 632 00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:46.239 And in terms of my picks, I've been, I've been. People 633 00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:52.719 have been very insecure. They dread the current, the next generation of AI 634 00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:58.719 stuff. Some some people really think they're the devil, They're going to replace 635 00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:04.440 my job, whatever. But what I try to say to people is instead 636 00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:10.440 of being afraid, are trying to give up your career because you think you're 637 00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:15.480 going to be replaced, try to I think, instead of waiting for the 638 00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:19.519 tool to dominate you, I think you should prefer to dominate the tool, 639 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:24.960 So I think you should learn as much as possible on how can you make 640 00:59:25.039 --> 00:59:30.280 your life easier using tools like that. So my picks would be tools such 641 00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:36.719 as the GitHub co pilot. If you're a programmer, it's actually really useful. 642 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:43.920 It's an autocomplete on steroids, so you don't want to be expecting the 643 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.559 AI to do the entire code for you. It's not going to happen, 644 00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:52.719 but for the boring parts, or let's refactor this big as CSS file that's 645 00:59:53.000 --> 00:59:58.039 so boring to do. So that's the kind of stuff that maybe is just 646 00:59:58.559 --> 01:00:02.559 the copilot thing and can be very very useful and actually save you a lot 647 01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:10.239 of time, especially for example, if testing testing people. One of the 648 01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:15.079 justifications for people not to do testing because it's boring. Oh it's boring code, 649 01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:20.480 it's not fun to do. And the copilot thing is very very good 650 01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:25.920 to understand your code and suggest unit tests for your code as well. So 651 01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:35.119 I think for programmers they should try that and the chattpt Claude Gemini things that 652 01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:39.880 are already available online. Again, it's not supposed to be a replacement for 653 01:00:39.960 --> 01:00:45.360 anyone, but it's actually a very good too to summarize stuff. So let's 654 01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:51.159 say you are overwhelmed without knowing where to start. Learning will be on rails, 655 01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:53.920 for example, because there's so many different topics that you want. So 656 01:00:54.079 --> 01:01:02.199 there's active storage, that's active channel, What how do I manage database? 657 01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:07.559 What a migration is? So there's lots of documentation that you can try. 658 01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:12.880 You may find that overwhelming, and you will find that tools like ch GPT 659 01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:20.360 can help give you an overview and explain certain topics in an easier way that 660 01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:24.519 you can digest faster, and that can actually speed you up in the learning 661 01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:30.280 process. So I think those new crop of tools can be kind of like 662 01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:37.480 your personal assistance in helping you in where you're overwhelmed or where you find it 663 01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:45.079 boring, to help you get that productivity back and learn faster. Awesome, 664 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.960 all right, well thanks for coming, Fabio. Yeah, thank you, 665 01:01:49.199 --> 01:01:54.039 and I hope we can talk again soon. Yeah. Absolutely, all right, 666 01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:57.920 folks, We're going to wrap it here and until next time, max out