WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:47.880 Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. I am Alejandro Rojas and 2 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:52.560 I am joined with the super Duper. I used this one before. I 3 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:59.520 like super Duper. Jason McClellan, you can recycle super Duper. I'll be 4 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:02.840 super due for today. Yeah, you like super Duper too. You don't 5 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.000 always like some of the ones that I use, and I wouldn't yeh fower 6 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.040 you so I don't. I don't blame you for that, but yeah, 7 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:19.640 some some are less super Duper, but definitely so a lot of cool stuff 8 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:23.239 going on in UFO News in the last week. We've had a lot of 9 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:26.480 really popular stories and I want to discuss those. And then Jason just posted 10 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.079 a really cool one today, so we'll talk about that in a minute. 11 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:34.719 But first I want to tell you about our guest this week, who is 12 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:40.920 a great one. His name is Joseph Frasconia. He actually goes by Pat 13 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:47.120 so Pat, and he's the lawyer for John Burrows and Jim Peniston, who 14 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:52.040 were two of the primary witnesses in the Rendelsham Forest. So these are guys 15 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:56.359 who were in the Air Force in the UK at these bases that were released 16 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.159 by the US Air Force, and you know saw the sho Jim says he 17 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:06.359 actually went up and touched it, and apparently John feels he had some interaction 18 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:10.159 with it as well, but he feels his memory has been screwed up, 19 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.439 and he also feels he's suffering some medical issues that may have been a result 20 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:20.120 of this experience. However, the government has said, you guys weren't in 21 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.039 the Air Force during that time, when certainly they were. Finally the government 22 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.080 admitted that and then says, well, we don't have your medical record. 23 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.599 Sorry. It's a really weird story that possibly these records were classified and some 24 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.400 crazy stuff. So we're going to talk to their lawyer, who's going to 25 00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:39.560 share with us, you know, the struggles he's had getting their records and 26 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:45.840 how odd and mysterious this has been for him and his feelings on the whole 27 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:52.680 thing. So really cool stuff, wild stuff, very cool stuff, wild 28 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.639 and crazy stuff. Yeah. So I think this is a really important story 29 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.759 that's kind of unfolding here. And of course we wrote about it last week 30 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.800 and some documents that John Burrows had found were kind of the UK government kind 31 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:10.240 of agreed and said, you know, they could have had had a long 32 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:19.879 exposure to UAP which is their turn for UFO radiation. Very very local. 33 00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.960 It is. There's so much going on with the story. It continues to 34 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:29.960 change, not the details of it, but you know the government and you 35 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.759 know the military's take on things, and I think it just points out that, 36 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.400 you know, they'd be much better off if instead of lying and continue 37 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:45.400 continuing to try to keep up with the lies they've created. They can't do 38 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.560 it. They're digging a hole and it keeps coming and biting them in the 39 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:52.080 ass. So moral of the story is, don't lie governments. Come on, 40 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.400 Yeah, quit lion, come on, don't be that way. Come 41 00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:01.240 on, you're busting my Yeah, well they're getting busted pretty soon because the 42 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:08.240 truth is coming out. You're best of my Canoli's over here, all right. 43 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.280 So the news. Let's go over the news because there's lots of cool 44 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.000 stuff. And you know, I haven't been able to fully get briefed on 45 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:19.560 the news from this morning, but you have what appears to be a pretty 46 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:26.600 exciting story from Colorado. Yeah, there is, and this is something that 47 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:33.480 started developing on Friday. And what we have here is multiple UFOs over Colorado, 48 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:41.399 Breckenridge actually, and so what's going on here? Is many people. 49 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:46.600 Multiple witnesses saw three UFOs and these are just, you know, kind of 50 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.680 unexciting UFOs. They're just white, bright dots in the sky, which could 51 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:59.519 really be anything. But the interesting thing with these UFOs they were seen reportedly 52 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:05.759 by potentially hundreds of people, including news reporters and police officers. The police 53 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:14.000 officers say that they are investigating this, and the local NBC affiliate there contacted 54 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.600 the FAA, and the FAA as a Friday said that they hadn't received any 55 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:24.199 reports of anything unusual in the sky, but the police contacted nor AD and 56 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:30.920 NORAD said that they didn't detect anything, but they were conducting an investigation as 57 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:36.639 well. So these mysterious aerial objects over Colorado are being investigated by the local 58 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:43.519 Sheriff's department as well as nor AD. Now, the most interesting description we 59 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.800 have here, I think comes from the actual news reporter from the NBC affiliate 60 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:55.920 there, because he sat with the news camera and observed this object for a 61 00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:00.839 long period of time, and the way he describes these objects, it's pretty 62 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.360 fascinating. So, all, how do you know, I mean, we 63 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:09.279 have like a dot in the sky that could be anything, and in most 64 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:14.319 cases, especially with something like this that seems to be hovering or not really 65 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:17.480 moving with any great speed in the sky. It could be a milar balloon, 66 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:20.079 and that would make it appear very bright, so you'd be able to 67 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:25.199 see it. It'd be visible very high up. It could be a weather 68 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:30.600 balloon, many things. But the reporter says he doesn't believe it's a weather 69 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:32.360 balloon, and he doesn't believe it's a drone. And that's another culprit of 70 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:36.160 a lot of these sightings. And here's why, because he says you'd sit 71 00:06:36.199 --> 00:06:42.160 there and could watch it for like fifteen minutes without it would move at all, 72 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.879 not slowly drifting, but completely motionless. Then and this is his quote, 73 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:50.279 and then you would see a flash of light and they would take off 74 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:55.879 across the edge of the mountain ridge behind me. Wow. So these objects 75 00:06:56.040 --> 00:07:02.720 displayed incredible flight capabilities, were seen by hundreds of people, including police officers 76 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:10.120 saw these objects too, So we have really interesting objects. And reportedly these 77 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:16.360 objects or similar objects were also seen in Utah the previous day. Yeah, 78 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:26.240 I citing spanning over multiple days and when the NBC affiliate reported that I the 79 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:30.279 only thing I remembered hearing about Utah the previous day was the fireballs that were 80 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:36.759 reported there. But when I looked at the move On UFO database, there 81 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:45.279 was actually a witness who reported seeing three small objects in the sky just like 82 00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:49.920 this, And the witnesses in Colorado reported seeing these things moving triangle into a 83 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:55.040 triangle formation and then moving into a straight line. So these three lines, 84 00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:01.000 three objects in a line, and that's what the witness in Utah reported to 85 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:03.959 move On that they saw these three objects in a line, just three one 86 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:09.160 after another. So it's pretty interesting and just hovering in the sky and then 87 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:13.519 zipping off at incredible speed. Yeah, really weird. The state director in 88 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:20.519 Utah just posted something this morning in Facebook and she was saying that, yeah, 89 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:24.199 this is a developing story that she thinks is really cool and they have 90 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.959 a lot of witnesses and this is going to be really interesting. So I 91 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:31.039 don't even know if she tied it into the Colorado thing yet. So that's 92 00:08:31.080 --> 00:08:35.879 really cool, really weird, And you know, I've seen similar stuff in 93 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.039 Colorado. I used to be a move on out there. I was an 94 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:43.000 investigator and these things were reported a lot, but like you said, hard 95 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.519 to determine if they're a balloon or not, but I saw something like this 96 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:50.519 once. One of these things cruising across the sky at a steady pace could 97 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:52.440 be a balloon. But then I would see another one once in a while 98 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:58.559 that was kind of zipping around. That one really weird. They just crossed 99 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.919 the sky pretty quickly. And then on another time and this was really strange, 100 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.200 and I, you know, I think it's important to tell all the 101 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:09.840 facts, however weird they are. I was with this girl who said she 102 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:13.679 saw UFOs sometimes she could feel them, and she believed that she was a 103 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:20.080 possible abductee. She had some strange memories that were like this, and sometimes 104 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:24.679 she would say we should go outside and look for UFOs. And the first 105 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:28.360 time I went over there too, she said to SkyWatch. You know, 106 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.559 She's like, we should go outside right now, you know, she said 107 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:33.759 you should come over the SkyWatch. I thought we're going to be out there 108 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.879 all day, but we were going in and out of the house and we 109 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:41.320 would only stay outside for five ten minutes. And we go out there and 110 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.720 she spotted pretty quickly over off in the distance, a white dot. It 111 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:50.919 just stood there. It just it didn't move at all. It was during 112 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:52.919 the day and it was just in the middle of the day and it was 113 00:09:54.039 --> 00:10:00.240 just still. After some time, it like faded out, and then a 114 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:05.279 little bit after that it reappeared and it was just above the spot it was 115 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:09.360 in before, so it wasn't in the same spot, and then it faded 116 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.200 out again. This lasted maybe ten to fifteen minutes and that was it. 117 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:18.159 But really weird. I've never figured out what the heck that was. It 118 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:20.879 is really weird. And yeah, I mean, these things, like I 119 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:26.519 said, could be really anything just based on the photographs and the description of 120 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.360 their appearance. But it's the description of the movement how fast these things just 121 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:37.200 shot off that make them really bizarre. That is fascinating. A flash of 122 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:43.679 light and then shooting off that is incredible and as doors is great. Yeah. 123 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:48.399 So with with local PD and nor ED investigating, hopefully we get some 124 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:54.960 more information about this and they're able to determine more about you know, where 125 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.320 these things were exactly in the sky, their altitude, you know, maybe 126 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:03.000 they were captured on radar. That'd be great. Yeah, but we'll see. 127 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.120 I mean there are many times we have stories like this and we hear 128 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.600 that certain government bodies are investigating, and then we don't hear anything else beyond 129 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.799 that. So hopefully that's not the case with this one, because it's pretty 130 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:20.000 fascinating. Yeah yeah, and now that shitds some more, I think to 131 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:22.399 me, well, I don't know if it does for you, but it 132 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:28.519 even makes this next story even more mysterious. It's one that we covered on 133 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.960 Spacing Out, so people can watch Spacing Out or go to our site to 134 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.679 see the video. But this is this crazy Hong Kong story that's gone, 135 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.320 you know, viral. It's all over the place. You jumped on this, 136 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.679 you know, really early. But this is a guy you know who's 137 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:50.559 watching BBC TV and he sees of the Hong Kong protests this white or this 138 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:56.279 it looks yellowish light you know, coming from the side of the TV screen, 139 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:01.480 and then hover in front of the out above the crowd, and then 140 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.840 zoom up into the sky at this incredible speed all of a sudden, and 141 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.279 I think this video is really weird. Now we've heard from Ben hanton and 142 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:13.720 Marcy Antonio who both feel that possibly this is a drone and drones can move 143 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:20.399 really fast. But what are your thoughts? Well, I do absolutely have 144 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.399 to agree with them with the drone theory and again, this is just you 145 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:28.559 know, based on the available evidence we have, I think there's enough to 146 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.759 suggest that that's what it most likely is. We know for a fact that 147 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:41.600 media, media outlets and probably law enforcement too, but we know media outlets 148 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.080 we're using drones there and are using drones there to capture aerial footage of the 149 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:52.799 mobs of people there. And we've seen that footage from from at least one 150 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.519 or or two I believe, of the drones there. And you know, 151 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:03.639 drones can move like this with the perspective of the camera and where the object 152 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.399 is, it's difficult to always determine the exact movement of the object if it's 153 00:13:07.960 --> 00:13:13.279 actually zooming up or if it's coming toward the camera. That can play tricks 154 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.799 on your eyes a bit there. But as Mark Nentonia points out, these 155 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:26.159 drones can and do ascend rapidly, and again how rapidly that is can be 156 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.480 affected by the or the appearance can be affected by the angle of this camera. 157 00:13:30.679 --> 00:13:33.279 You know, it can seem to be zooming up a lot faster than 158 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.679 it actually is. But I think it's it's a good, good possibility that 159 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.759 this is just a drone. It's a good it's a possibility there are drones 160 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.279 in the area. That's that that makes it really strong. But I'm not 161 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:50.159 sold. I mean that video when it shoots up, the camera as at 162 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.759 least far enough from the object where it appears like it's shooting up in quite 163 00:13:54.840 --> 00:14:00.759 a distance. I mean the lightest small enough. If this is a it's 164 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.360 close, it's not close enough to make out the details of the craft. 165 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:09.399 All you can see is a bright light, so it can't be too close. 166 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.240 I wouldn't think if you can't make out the details of the craft and 167 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:18.159 then it shoots up, which has got to be quite a distance and you 168 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:22.720 know, to control that. It just to me that the video itself looks 169 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:33.000 so strange that I still I'm hoping that markd' antonio will recreate this to show 170 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.120 to demonstrate that it's possible, because at least right now I'm not totally convinced. 171 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:39.639 Well, and that's what needs to be done. I mean, if 172 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:45.919 we get a drone with a camera and test it out and try to recreate 173 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:50.159 this, uh you know, rapid assent and see what it looks like from 174 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.960 a similar angle, then that could support the possibility that that's what we're seeing 175 00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:00.480 in this video. Yeah, yeah, great video, really cool. This 176 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:03.200 is a neat one, and I don't know, this is kind of funny. 177 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.679 This is a story I posted, you know, the same day that 178 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:09.720 this next one, and it's gotten a lot of hits. That's why I 179 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:15.000 want to refer to it. And this is about a Canadian writer who is 180 00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:18.720 recalling a UFO siding, and it got a lot of hits up maybe because 181 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.559 your Hong Kong story was getting a lot of hits and this was residual. 182 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.159 But HiT's a lot of hits, and I thought it was a neat story. 183 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:28.519 I didn't think it would get a lot of hits because it's just another 184 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:33.240 UFO siding, but it's kind of neat. It's this guy who is a 185 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.919 contributor to the Innisfaul Province newspaper in Canada. He also has written several books. 186 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:43.879 He ran for city council out there. But essentially he's writing this story 187 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.840 about how there's a lot of UFO sidings and it seems to be there increasing 188 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:52.960 there's been stories all over the country about UFOs. And he says that I 189 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:56.679 saw my own UFO, a bright triangular object that he saw with his son 190 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:03.000 that took off at a rapid pay through the clouds, and he essentially is 191 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:06.080 saying, the UFOs are out there, now we need to get some pictures, 192 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.879 so get your cameras ready kind of thing. So it is kind of, 193 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:15.799 you know, fun to have a reporter out there speaking positively about UFOs. 194 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:21.480 But of course these two stories that we've reviewed has also sparked a lot 195 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:27.120 of media to be talking about UFOs, and largely in kind of a pro 196 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:33.840 you know that this is a mystery perspective. Yeah, we are seeing more 197 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.039 of that, and I like that. And what the Colorado thing too. 198 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.399 I mean, the news report that NBC did on it was fairly good, 199 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.159 you know, mainly because the reporter himself saw it and knew how bizarret was. 200 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:51.000 But still they had to tag the end of the story with the cheesy 201 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.080 guy in the studio saying, well, if you go missing, we'll know 202 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:59.240 why. Hm that cheeseball. You know. So it's still there, but 203 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.400 as we can it's getting better. You Yeah, you can't have everything perfect, 204 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.839 but we are seeing more of these stories where they are being taken seriously, 205 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.680 and that's why it makes it more frustrating when, like last week and 206 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:17.680 other weeks, we have these stories that are huge stories picked up by seemingly 207 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:22.519 every media outlet in the world, and they're just hoaxes. Yeah yeah. 208 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:25.960 Speaking of which, just to finalize, you know, another one of our 209 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:30.519 big stories from last week is this alien hoax where there's an alien laying there 210 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.319 with a gun on its chest. It's laying on a stretcher. You know, 211 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.160 some people did some research. Actually, this guy named Isaac, who 212 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:42.279 is a great researcher who out there, did some work to find out that 213 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:48.799 this was actually part of an airsoft and airsoft are pellets. It's not paintball, 214 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:52.240 but it's similar to paintball. These guns that shoot these pellets. And 215 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:55.039 these guys go do these war games and stuff, and one of the war 216 00:17:55.079 --> 00:18:00.519 games is to recover an alien body. And so this photograph was from this 217 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.960 airsoft thing. And this guy ufo Ovney twenty twelve, who has a YouTube 218 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.599 site, posted this making it seem as though it was an alien recovery, 219 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.000 but that was not the case. Interesting enough, this ufo Ovney got a 220 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.799 hold of us, commented and emailed us and said, hey, I didn't 221 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.400 know it was a hoax. Once I found out, I took it down, 222 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.480 So please don't say I'm a hoaxer. However, I'm not prepared to 223 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.160 go that far. And the reason being is this guy gets a lot of 224 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:34.240 has a lot of videos that get millions of hits, and they are hoaxed 225 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.799 videos, many of them known hoaxed. One of them he gets a lot 226 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:45.160 of hits on is a Mermaid video from that documentary that was fiction and admitted 227 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:51.880 fiction. So you know, I emailed him that and said, well what 228 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.079 about your other videos, buddy? And so he's just not a trusted source. 229 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.039 And I think people need to know that absolutely. I mean, there 230 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.640 are so many of these YouTube channels out there, and whether or not these 231 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:10.039 people are intentionally participating in hoaxes, they're not. I mean they are putting 232 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:14.880 this information out there without you know, looking at the sources, and you 233 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.440 can tell by the titles they use and the descriptions they throw in they are 234 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:23.720 intentionally trying to generate hype and get views. You know, I don't care 235 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:26.039 how much he wants to plead they're oh, I'm just trying to get the 236 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.799 information out that No, no, you're not. That's not the case at 237 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:38.079 all. So shame on you. You've got the Jason McKeith McClellan, Shame 238 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.240 on you, all right, So there's some new stories. Of course, 239 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.480 we have more than this, but this is a lot of really good stuff 240 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:49.400 that we've got on our website. In this last week, it's been really 241 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:55.359 active. So that's at open mindset TV, and of course check out Jason 242 00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:00.319 Moreen and I on spacing Out on our YouTube channel. You can also reach 243 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:07.400 that from the website openminds dot tv and you interviewed on Spacing Out one of 244 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.039 our speakers for the UFO Congress that I'm really excited about, and this is 245 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:17.799 Jeremy Corbel, someone who the UFO community probably doesn't know too much now, 246 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.599 but they will in the future because he has these amazing documentaries, a string 247 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:27.200 of them that he's done that will be coming out and he'll be premiering a 248 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:32.839 couple of those at the congress. Yeah, he's a really talented filmmaker. 249 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:38.920 We've seen some of his work and just what he does telling a visual stories. 250 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.759 It's pretty remarkable in my opinion. But you know, there are a 251 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:47.839 lot of people out there making good documentaries, but Jeremy, i think, 252 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.799 has done something a little different than many of the other filmmakers. And that 253 00:20:52.960 --> 00:21:00.480 is you know, he's actually spent a lot of time. And I don't 254 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.519 know if people will will understand this, but the amount of time he's spent 255 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:10.319 physically with the people he's doing these movies about, it's a lot. You 256 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.079 know. He spent hours and hours and hours and hours for you know, 257 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:19.200 years in some cases with these people documenting some of the work that they're doing. 258 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:26.119 So I think he's got a great insider view. He took the time 259 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.640 to not only spend the time with these people and hear their stories, but 260 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.759 also then use the connections that he's been able to forge and take their research 261 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:41.200 and do his additional his own additional research with these stories he's doing, and 262 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.880 he puts that all together in these documentaries. So I can't wait to see 263 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:48.400 the final product. I think people will be impressed with his work. And 264 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.200 because of the time he's spent with these people who are considered leading researchers in 265 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.119 the field, I think his talk at the UFO Congress is going to be 266 00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.839 pretty phenomenal. The research is probably it gets me real excited because he's not 267 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:06.119 only interviewing these people, he's taken them to what they have to say to 268 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:12.279 task and then going and talking to experts and making some really cool discoveries. 269 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:17.160 That's right, it's not just a retelling of the same story that a lot 270 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.279 of people who have been in this field for a while have heard over and 271 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.240 over and over again. You're right, he takes that, he presents that, 272 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:26.119 but then he also, as you said, takes them to task and 273 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.799 does additional investigation into the claims. So I really like that. Yeah, 274 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:36.400 and he's found some stuff that substantiates some stuff that many of us might have 275 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:40.799 thought was kind of out there but maybe, Yeah, there's more to it, 276 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:42.759 so really cool. Yeah, that's going to be a really exciting one. 277 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:47.759 Looking forward to it. Yeah, So, speaking of exciting, let's 278 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:56.279 listen to UFO lawyer Pat Frescona. I am very happy to welcome to the 279 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.079 show for the first time, and I think this is really I'm really excited 280 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:06.039 about this because this is a unique perspective, someone different talking about rendalschim. 281 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:11.079 But I'm really curious because I'm not quite sure what all you're going to have 282 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:12.759 to say about it, but I'm I'm sure it's going to be revealing and 283 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:21.000 exciting and a great perspective. But anyway, we have Pat aka Joseph Fresconia. 284 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.319 Hello, how are you? I'm doing well. Thank you a long 285 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:26.440 joy, thank you well, thank you so much for getting a hold of 286 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:32.920 me and wanting to talk about this. And you are Jim and James lawyer? 287 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.519 Is that correct? Jim and James John John Burrows. Oh, I'm 288 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:44.000 sorry John Burrows and James or Jim Penniston. Yeah, yes, yes, 289 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:48.319 yeah, I've worked with both of them extensively over the last couple of three 290 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.960 years. Correct. What is your expertise when it comes to law? What 291 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:57.519 area do you usually work in? Well, it began about twenty five years 292 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:03.480 ago as a public defender representing indigent criminal clients, you know, they were 293 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:10.079 charged with felony offenses and so forth. Later I would, after leaving, 294 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.480 I pull onement with government doing that kind of governments and so forth, to 295 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:22.400 representing consumers that were harmed by predatory practices banks, credit card companies and the 296 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.960 like. And then I guess, going back about four years ago now, 297 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:37.839 I started getting into some representation of veterans who suffered exotic injuries due to various 298 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:48.920 kinds of radiation and radio frequencies. Is radiation typically due to something related to 299 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.799 their time in the military. Oh, yes, absolutely, uh huh. 300 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:59.119 Now, typically when you work on these sort of cases, do you have 301 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.799 trouble getting records? Uh? Most the vast majority of the time of the 302 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:08.519 time, Yes, Oh you do. So you're used to having to fight 303 00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:14.640 for for these records, these kinds of records, is mm hmm. So 304 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:21.720 it's not uncommon. And is this kind of, you know, some unfortunate 305 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:30.079 kind of due to secrecy typically, Well, when I initially began, specifically 306 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:37.200 with John Burrows and Jim Penniston on this, I went into it thinking perhaps 307 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.799 that it was just left in the right hands not knowing what they were doing. 308 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:48.119 That's sort of thing. Is that usually what it is often times it 309 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.920 is in the corporate world. But as as time went on, it became 310 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.079 more apparent, particularly in their case, that there was something that just didn't 311 00:25:56.119 --> 00:26:02.279 want to release, and then being contacted by dozens and if not hundreds, 312 00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:08.160 by now of other veterans who were in different different military scenarios, if you 313 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:14.279 will, thinks that everything from say atomic testing in the Pacific or what have 314 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:22.200 you, a pattern emerged where anytime something was being done that was let's just 315 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:27.799 say unusual, and anyone injured seemed to have a fault in getting their records 316 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.240 later on when they wanted with I think there is a component of negligence without 317 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:40.839 any doubt. Certainly anytime you're talking about government, there is just people not 318 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.200 getting the job done, not caring or whatever. But he goes beyond that. 319 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:52.599 I think in these cases there's an additional level that a deliberate omission in 320 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:59.640 giving people what they deserve. So when do you ad when did Jim, 321 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:06.640 I Guess and John approached you together they did? And what did you think 322 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.000 of their story? Had you been into UFOs or given them much that prior 323 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:14.680 to meeting them, and how did you feel about what they were telling you? 324 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.000 Well, all my life, even from as a boy, I was 325 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:26.720 a member for a while of NICAP National Investigative Committee on the airline Oh really 326 00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.440 wow, and subscribe to their newsletter. But you know, as I moved 327 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.720 into my teens and early twenties and into thirties, I really didn't give much 328 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:40.119 thought to it other than I was always somewhat interested. I just thought there 329 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:45.160 was something worth taking note of in the field, but I didn't study it 330 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.440 per se. But it wasn't until I happened to catch Bill Burns Pat Huskert 331 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:55.519 on the show UFO Hunters back in eight two thousand and eight, an episode 332 00:27:55.559 --> 00:28:00.680 called Military Versus UFOs that I was exposed for the first time to the Renderlshom 333 00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:07.519 Forest incident, and it immediately struck me as something special. You know, 334 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:15.079 it was not just unusual, but perhaps a gateway event into exposing the truth. 335 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:21.759 And ultimately from there I would seek out John and Jim for a UFO 336 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:26.640 conference that I promoted here in which I inviodied them down on London Molten Howe 337 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:33.400 and Tom Carey of the Rosall incident, and that's when we got to know 338 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:40.240 each other and everything happened from there. So and also for the audience, 339 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:45.559 maybe in your own words, could you summarize the Renders from Forrest incident as 340 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.440 you understand it, what happened. Well, you can't do it justice to 341 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.960 summarize it, but I'll give it. I'll give it a whirl. Over 342 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.440 the course of a few nights in December nineteen eighty, beginning with Boxing Day, 343 00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:03.119 there were lights in the forest. The initial contact was by Ed Cobanzig, 344 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:10.319 John Burrows and Jim Penison, who responded as part of the military police 345 00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:17.720 team to what initial craft in the forest, and ultimately they would encounter a 346 00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:23.480 craft about approximately ten feet in length, five or six seven feet in width 347 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:32.599 eight or so feet in height, and that craft, which ultimately took off 348 00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.359 from the forest floor where it had been sitting, did so silently and then 349 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:44.039 departed at impossible speeds I think is what Jim Pinison's words were in regard to 350 00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:48.960 that. The next night, then Colonel Halt was a deputy based commander. 351 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:53.599 He got involved because there was a reappearance whether there was an appearance of something 352 00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:56.400 this time was a little bit different. There was a light moving around in 353 00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:03.279 the forest that would eventually morph into several lights that would go overhead and collectively 354 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.160 this is called the Rendelstrom forest incident. Of course, there's a whole lot 355 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:12.960 more than what I just summarized, but right, that's basic. Right. 356 00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:19.319 And so when you, uh, you know, first looked into this, 357 00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:25.440 I guess you know, and you having looked at the book, there are 358 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:33.200 other controversial possible events that had taken place. For instance, there are claims 359 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.960 of you know, the government meeting extraterrestrials and things like this. What did 360 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.680 you what do you feel about those claims? You're probably talking about Larry Warren's 361 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:49.200 claims. I don't know Larry. I've never spoken to him. I've stuck 362 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:57.880 to many folks involved in the Rendilstrom incident, typically John Burrows, for example, 363 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:02.720 When you talk about Larry these claims, he'll just say I don't have 364 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.519 the same because John was there for both nights, you know, with Colonel 365 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:12.319 Fulton before. John will typically say things like, you know, if it 366 00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.759 happened the way Larry said, I don't remember that, he doesn't say it 367 00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:21.000 didn't. Going back to what I just said. Since I've never talked to 368 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:25.480 Larry and don't know Larry, I really can't pass judgment on what Larry has 369 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:32.160 to say, gotcha, So I personally don't give credence to him like I 370 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:36.200 do John and Jim's side of what happened those events, because I do know 371 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:40.880 them so well and talked to them at length for so many times. Got 372 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:45.200 cha. So, Jim and John had come to you with that they had 373 00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:52.400 medical currently they have medical problems right, and that they believed could possibly be 374 00:31:52.519 --> 00:32:00.680 related to what happened there in the rendelschromp Forest. Did you agree with that? 375 00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:07.480 Did you think you know this is a possibility well given. Speaking specifically 376 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:14.359 of John in this case, since he has had some of the most pronounced 377 00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:19.200 medical issues as a result, and these are issues that began in the days 378 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:27.000 immediately after the incident in nineteen eighty and also having been present in Tucson last 379 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.960 year at the Veterans the VA Hospital thereafter his heart surgery and speaking to his 380 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:37.599 surgeon who performed the surgery, I asked him point blank if he knew what 381 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:40.839 he caused a particular damage to his heart, and he said he had no 382 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:49.640 idea what could have caused her that and along with some other things I wouldn't 383 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:54.000 feel comfortable talking about, just because they get more deeply into John's medical file, 384 00:32:54.599 --> 00:33:00.559 I would say that what happened to him and others that I talked to 385 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:06.599 in the know the juries that occurred to him were due to a certain type 386 00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:14.559 of radiation that is known to be emitted by certain objects when they are operating 387 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:23.519 in the spread of dimensions that they're operating. And as the words, it's 388 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:30.519 part of their operation, it's part of the culture of the operation of the 389 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:37.680 craft. It's what comes off of it is you will electromagnetic laws and this 390 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:44.759 type of radiation. Yeah, just quick schooling for anyone listening that's curious. 391 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:49.680 Electromagnetic radiation covers a visible light, all the X rays and so forth, 392 00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.759 So when you say radiation, it could be light, but it could also 393 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:58.400 be X rays. It's an all inclusive term used that way. But there 394 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:06.960 are certain frequent fees within the spectrum that are believed to be necessary for certain 395 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.079 craft to be able to operate to what they do. And it is that 396 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:15.679 spectrum or within and that that man that it affects human physiology, that it 397 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:24.360 does specifically heart tissue mm hmm. And when you say okay, and are 398 00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:32.000 are there for instance, like machines in matil military would use or that would 399 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:37.440 emit this sort of radiation that you're aware of, what I gets into the 400 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:43.639 question was a black Ops project? I personally do not think it was. 401 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:47.639 At this point. I'm convinced it was something else. It wasn't theirs, 402 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:53.320 meaning it wasn't the Soviets, it wasn't ours. If it was ours, 403 00:34:54.559 --> 00:35:02.880 then it was us testing someone else's equipment. And also you have to remember 404 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:07.800 if in December of nineteen eighty we had a craft that was doing what this 405 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:09.880 craft did, and there's no doubt in my mind, the craft was there 406 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:15.480 and it did what it did. I know the two of the three principles 407 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.559 and of the stories too well and have been with them in too many, 408 00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:29.320 too many in different settings to question their credibility as far as reporting what they 409 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:34.320 saw. To this day, what are we thirty four years subsequent. There's 410 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:37.920 still nothing at an air show near me that operates anything like that thing. 411 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:43.840 Yeah, and at least in in their regular work in the military or otherwise, 412 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:50.280 they never came into contact with anything known to have no nothing even close, 413 00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:53.480 nothing than close, right, And so when we're getting into the details 414 00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:58.440 of what the craft did, and this is an interesting point, and it 415 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:00.880 would be great to hear your perspective as you work closely with both of them. 416 00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:07.800 From my understanding and from my own personal interviews of both gentlemen, Peniston 417 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:13.159 had actually when they came across this bright light, Peniston had approached the object. 418 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.280 He actually touched it. This is where you know. He gave the 419 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:22.000 details and he took notes when he was examining the object that it was triangular, 420 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:27.199 floating above the ground. He took the notes and pictures and stuff. 421 00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:32.440 And then it lifted up and it shot off However, John stopped and didn't 422 00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.079 get as close. But from my understanding, John only saw a bright light. 423 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:44.440 He didn't see details of the physical craft. Is that correct? Well, 424 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:51.159 there is some indication that John may have actually entered the craft entered it. 425 00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:58.360 Yes. John has told me that there was a time during that experience 426 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.480 where he said that he as he described that, he was in the middle 427 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:07.239 of a football stadium size room, and he doesn't have the memory quite the 428 00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:13.400 same as Jim does. Jim was doing a walk around of the crap, 429 00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:19.000 as you know, and writing notes in his field book notebook and wasn't paying 430 00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.679 so much attention to what John was doing at that time. And John just 431 00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:30.920 doesn't have the depth of memory about the incident as Jim does well. And 432 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:35.599 it is interesting where we talked about earlier, and I guess I should mention 433 00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:38.639 this and talked about it, you know, I've talked about it on the 434 00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:45.440 show before. But how we did this story about John? And John had 435 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:52.239 revealed that there was a UK document done by the UK Defense Intelligence Group and 436 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.880 about UFOs in two thousand and it was released in two thousand and six, 437 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.199 and he noticed and I believe some of this is in the book also on 438 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.519 the Renderlstrom forst that recently came out, that was written by Nick Pope with 439 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:13.199 Jim and John, and he had noticed that they had talked about exposure to 440 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:19.159 u AP another term for UFOs radiation, and one of the effects is memoryless 441 00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.920 and problems with memories. And I note yet John has talked all along about 442 00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:30.360 believing to have some sort of issue with his memory during this experience. Okay, 443 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:37.239 well, so you're you're hitting on something that's that's quite quite interesting that 444 00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:42.039 you were. You were so sharp as to note what you just did, 445 00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:49.159 because there is a certain trying to show you how I want to put this 446 00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:53.360 there, there's certain research I would say that's been done on why humans, 447 00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:59.400 certain some humans, I should say, react the way they do to this 448 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:04.199 ordia. In other words, not every human being is affected in the same 449 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:13.320 way. Does maybe the genetic makeup whatever. There's a gene that's gene, 450 00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.159 but it just happens to be a gene that allows somebody to come in a 451 00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:23.280 certain radius of these craft when they're operating where their hard tissue is not affected 452 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:30.639 at virtual excuse me. Jim Peniston, for the most part, was not 453 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:36.679 affected in the same ways that John was yet Jim was quite close to it. 454 00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:42.719 And you mentioned the memory laws. That would be another example. If 455 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:47.039 this was a craft, whether it was from somewhere else or it was us 456 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:54.880 operating someone else's craft from somewhere else, there is an important need to know 457 00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:00.880 how we can use or put a human operator in these crafts without them being 458 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.519 injured. You follow, mm hmm. So folks like Jim and John are 459 00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:16.559 important because they help an understanding how a human operator could safely operate one of 460 00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:25.239 these crafts. So that's uh, some research that they have found it is 461 00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:30.639 going on. I would I without going into details, I will tell you 462 00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:37.960 that I believe, strongly believe that there is yes interesting and I mean yeah, 463 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.840 like like we noted that this is noticed by the UK, and and 464 00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.760 like you said, and maybe for uh and let me let me add one 465 00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:50.400 more thing. Pardon the interruption. This is not this is not so unlike 466 00:40:50.480 --> 00:41:00.800 or dissimilar to the examples of trying to find suitable pilots for the military and 467 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.679 putting them in the centrifuges. You know where they spin around and they have 468 00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:09.440 so many G forces. Some people can handle those g forces better than others. 469 00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:15.039 Mm. So in a way. It's similar to that, far more 470 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:22.000 sophisticated medically, but it's still the same idea. And an example of this, 471 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:24.079 I mean, and bringing it to this case is that you know, 472 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:28.800 Pennison touched the object, he walked around it for a period of time, 473 00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:36.119 doesn't seem to be suffering from the same conditions that Burrows is now. Burrows, 474 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:39.960 I mean, mostly of what he's conveyed is that you know, he 475 00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:45.480 stopped short, he was very freaked out with this very bright light. But 476 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:50.360 he does now yes, seem to have start to have some memories of possibly 477 00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:53.159 entering the craft. And how is he retrieving these? Are they coming back 478 00:41:53.239 --> 00:42:00.639 naturally or has he gotten under hypnosis or anything like that. He has gone 479 00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:07.360 under hypnosis before, many years ago. And as far as whether these particular 480 00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:12.920 memories you're talking about are the results of that, I cannot remember myself when 481 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.679 he told me if they were independent of the hypnotism or not, I just 482 00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:22.239 don't recall. I'm sorry, go ahead, oh no, And then I 483 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.800 was going to say, so, you know, unfortunately both they both have 484 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:30.039 memory issues, or especially John during this period of time. So I'm not 485 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:35.000 quite sure what happened, but something did happen. He was out there up 486 00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:39.280 and there were other witnesses to this thing, you know, that night, 487 00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:46.480 but they're also was and I know this is in the book, they did 488 00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:52.480 measure radiation in the area. Is that correct afterwards? Yes? And and 489 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:58.000 who measured that go ahead? I believe that was Carl Halt's team that did 490 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:04.960 that. And there were readings higher than normal on the trees where the scuff 491 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:08.320 marks you know, were in that sort of thing. Now, it is 492 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:16.400 my understanding that that is to be expected because if something is moving in the 493 00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:23.000 manner that such craft move okay, then there is necessarily going to be some 494 00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:29.800 radiation that's going to result. And what I'm what I'm trying to what I'm 495 00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.480 trying to say is a craft such as this one that we're talking about here, 496 00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:39.159 was not performing like a normal aerodynamic craft as we know it. It 497 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:45.239 was performing and call it interdimensionally if you want, that. It was not 498 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:52.280 operating in the same space time all the time. It was operating in a 499 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:58.760 variety of space times during that time. So when it came in and it 500 00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:04.400 was on the floor, his floor, it was there. However, something 501 00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:08.239 to point out John and Jim both talk about as they got close to the 502 00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:15.920 craft, they noticed that to you, and Jim told me once that he 503 00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:19.639 remembers. He said, it was hard to explain, but it was like 504 00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:27.360 everything was slowing down, the forest himself, everything was slowing down as they 505 00:44:27.400 --> 00:44:30.880 got close to it. Well, that's the space time distortion going on. 506 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:37.000 That's all that is. Wow. Interesting. And then with the craft. 507 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:42.599 Then when the craft took off, the same thing occurred. And when you 508 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:46.440 talk about space time distortions in that it's in kind of a space time flex. 509 00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:52.119 Do you are there other people who have told you this? I mean, 510 00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:55.159 do you have other experts that are saying that that that's what they believe 511 00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:00.199 was going on. I'm just curious. Want answer to that is yes, 512 00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:07.239 yes, people that are trained to know such things in science have told me 513 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:12.840 about. Okay, so you know, so they have this strange experience when 514 00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:20.239 they came to you. Were they already having problems getting their records or was 515 00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:22.880 that or were you the one who sought their records and then and then ran 516 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:30.519 into the issues. It's now been several years ago. I can't remember exactly 517 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:35.840 at what point they were as far as their attempts go, but I know 518 00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:40.119 that there the frustration was already there sufficient to want to invite a lawyer into 519 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:46.119 the mix. So and what was the nature of you know, what they 520 00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:52.519 weren't able to retrieve and what was uh, you know, being withheld or 521 00:45:52.039 --> 00:46:00.440 or allegedly lost well with John going back to him, since most of the 522 00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:05.559 work that I've done in this particular aspect of it has been for his sake 523 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:14.599 John, because he's had the most critical medical issues. John has been unable 524 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:21.320 to get a complete medical file on himself from the Air Force or anyone else 525 00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:25.519 who's the custodian of from since that would have them, He's gotten bits and 526 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:30.800 pieces. You have to understand, when he went into the Air Force, 527 00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:36.599 he didn't have any physical issues, and within a I think it was less 528 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:42.960 than a year on another physical after the incident, he had suddenly developed the 529 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:49.039 issues such as the heart problem that he didn't have before. Anything that relates 530 00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:57.400 to showing that we can't seem to get from the government, and even more 531 00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:02.079 incredible is all I'd say is about eight nine months ago now maybe a little 532 00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:07.119 longer. The government or the military, whoever you want to one of the 533 00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:12.239 same in his case essentially was denying that he was even in the Air Force. 534 00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:16.000 In December of nineteen eighty. We finally got that corrected with the health 535 00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:25.239 of Cenator John McCain's office. But that's the sort of the sort of silliness 536 00:47:25.239 --> 00:47:30.679 that we've run into with them trying to basically just repel all the attempts to 537 00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:35.440 show anything. Now one might say, well, why is it a big 538 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:39.840 deal to produce the medical records. Why, Well, because in the minds 539 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:45.559 of those at Keep Secrets, they don't want to give any substance of help 540 00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:51.119 to any kind of particularly this incident, because it's obviously one that's important. 541 00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:55.239 They don't want to be able to share John to show that he had no 542 00:47:55.320 --> 00:48:00.599 hard problems immediately before, but he did immediately after the incident. That's sort 543 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:07.599 of mm hmm. Yeah. And when it comes to Jim, then is 544 00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:15.000 he experiencing health issues, then that may be related at all. Yet Jim 545 00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:21.079 has been public about some of those, I think insomnia and things such as 546 00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:27.480 that, but nothing nothing to the degree of John and so, and obviously, 547 00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:32.320 of course John needs help when it comes to finances. I'm sure he's 548 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:36.360 you know, trying to and I think I read this he's trying to, 549 00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:39.880 you know, get the VA to help. And of course if he wasn't 550 00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:44.280 in the military during that time according to the Air Force, that would be 551 00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:50.840 an issue, a big one. So I believe one of his denials was 552 00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:57.639 based in part or essentially on that. With his disability from the da as 553 00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.840 the fact that they said he wasn't even end during that time. It's it's 554 00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:05.280 just it's ridiculous. It's that. And and the thing is keeping in mind 555 00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:08.559 that John's not and Jim's not the only veteran. Aren't the only veterans out 556 00:49:08.599 --> 00:49:15.199 there that have been exposed something unusual and not everything that's unusual that has produced 557 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:22.320 an exotic injury is related to something dis exotic suddenly. But it's really sad 558 00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:29.480 that the Veterans Administration has not taken care of these vets mm hmm for the 559 00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:34.079 sake of keeping something secret well. And and have they said that what has 560 00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.800 been their excuse or did they saying the records were just lost or are they 561 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:45.360 saying that they are classified? We know we know that we know that John's 562 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:52.000 records are classified percent to a letter by John McCain wow that said that they 563 00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:59.440 were. And initially going back to the talking to as many vets as I 564 00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:02.360 have initial kind of fault that maybe that was a unique case, but now 565 00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:07.880 we find that it's really not just about any that it seems that was involved 566 00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:13.320 in something unusual that they just don't want to talk about. Finds their records 567 00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:20.440 classified or wow, otherwise disappeared or gone or whatever. Well, and I 568 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.719 know i'd imagine. And this just keeps reminding me of Area fifty one, 569 00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:32.480 which is just it's so tragic because in Area fifty one, you know, 570 00:50:32.519 --> 00:50:37.360 there were the guys who were told to burn, yeah, to burn the 571 00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:42.679 chemicals. They got sick, and they needed those records to show the doctors, 572 00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:46.320 you know, what they might have been burning to help them, and 573 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:53.079 they never got them. Secrecy won, and so these people's health was you 574 00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:59.360 know, the secondary to the secrets. And that's what gets frustrating, especially 575 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:05.239 because I'm sure the doctors would like to know the nature of what happened to 576 00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:08.440 John in order to help him. Oh what, We've got a letter from 577 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:15.159 one of John's Savigian doctors. It's asked or makes that point, just as 578 00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:21.519 you get that he would like to see the complete military medical follow John to 579 00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:28.559 properly treat the man. M Yes, well, and it's very telling. 580 00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:31.679 I mean, of course that John would have some records classified, and I 581 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:37.519 think that's what makes this all so important and interesting, because I mean, 582 00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:46.039 is there any other project or or that John was involved with that was classified 583 00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:53.119 that would justify, you know, any sort of classification of medical records other 584 00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:57.960 than this incident with the UFO. This is this is the only one that 585 00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:02.760 I know of. This is the only one. So it's almost saying, 586 00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:08.320 you know, yeah, this UFO thing is classified. Yep. Absolutely, 587 00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:16.440 It's the same old thing that you see, whether it's the boomerang shaped craft, 588 00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:22.639 the size of three shopping centers that went over Phoenix back and was it 589 00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:30.239 ninety seven, it's the same old thing. Nobody or the Sorcerer object that 590 00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.519 was over O'Hare was it in two thousand and six in Chicago or eight somewhere 591 00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:38.800 in there. Nobody in official them ever, seems to want to comment, 592 00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:43.079 or if they do, it gets down to the absurd where it was a 593 00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:46.480 weather balloons, weather phenomena. They love weather. It's always something related to 594 00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:52.960 them, and they just ignore it. Figuring I guess that most people will 595 00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:59.559 pay it attention if official doom doesn't. So what's extremely what's most upsetting, 596 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:01.119 though, of course, in a situation like this, is someone's health as 597 00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:05.639 at stake. I know, it's pretty chilling. When I finally came to 598 00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.800 the real I knew, look, I knew from I knew from my legal 599 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:15.840 career. And when it came to money American corporations, there are are many 600 00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:19.960 of them, too many of them out there that will clean you all it 601 00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:23.880 out. They don't care, you know. I had no idea though, 602 00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:30.119 that that mindset could carry over to our own government when it came to people's 603 00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:34.800 lives, and particularly people that had served in the military. Right, talk 604 00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:39.880 about chilling, and that that was really that that I still find that not 605 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:45.320 just abhorrent, but I find it absolutely frightening. That's that's the world we're 606 00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:53.800 living in right now. Have you ever ran across a case like this that's 607 00:53:53.800 --> 00:54:00.760 a that's an actually a good question. I've run across some similar UFO card 608 00:54:00.880 --> 00:54:08.599 cases, okay, uh, involving police officers and involving former military that had 609 00:54:09.079 --> 00:54:16.559 gone back to but none none, none that had all the elements quite as 610 00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:21.079 perfectly as no. Mm hmm. Well, and even in your in your 611 00:54:21.159 --> 00:54:25.440 professional life, have you ran across even UFO related or not. Uh, 612 00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:37.159 this sort of stone walling. Uh yes, well not by the government. 613 00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:42.079 No, not gonna go Really, So in your other cases where you've helped 614 00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:45.639 people, uh in this sort of area, have you, you've always been 615 00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:52.000 eventually able to get records from the government. Well if you if you couldn't 616 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:57.599 get records eventually you get satisfaction if you, for example, what would satisfaction 617 00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:00.880 be in this case, I give John disability and say, look, we're 618 00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:02.920 not going to tell you what happened to you, but we're going to take 619 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:07.840 care of you. And that's it. And how likely do you think that 620 00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:15.639 is that could have it could be that that happens. I think there is 621 00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:20.400 a good chance that's going to happen. But I also think they play a 622 00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:23.360 game of they take a long time to do it because they're just running the 623 00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:28.360 clock out for people. I figure that, you know, so many folks 624 00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.679 will just go ahead and die off and they won't have to deal with it. 625 00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:37.159 But see, that's really sad. And and then of course with the 626 00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:40.199 recent VA issues, you know, I live out here in Arizona, so 627 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.800 kind of the epicenter of all of that. But that is just tragic that 628 00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:53.400 of course that these people would have that sort of attitude towards veterans, to 629 00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:58.880 let them die off, people that should be honored for, you know, 630 00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:04.800 the sacrifices they've made. I find it repugnant that there are semi politicians and 631 00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:07.000 I'm not thinking of anyone in particular right now when I say this, just 632 00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:13.960 in general that will drape the flag around themselves in support of veterans, and 633 00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:17.360 then when it gets down to this kind of thing, evidently they're not doing 634 00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:23.400 anything about it. And it's beyond say it to think that this is what's 635 00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:30.760 happening. So were you satisfied it sounds like Senator McCain's office did helped quite 636 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:39.639 a bit, Sarmim. McCain's office has been beyond helpful. They have taken 637 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:45.800 what I believe I used to work in Washington for a congressman from California years 638 00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:55.360 ago. The folks there have done a wonderful job in expressing sincere concern and 639 00:56:55.480 --> 00:57:01.760 attempting to see this taken care of for John, you know, your disability 640 00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:07.199 claim and so forth. I think the problem is they face a behemoth of 641 00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:13.159 a bureaucracy that they don't necessarily control either, you know, and they have 642 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:19.000 to operate within certain guidelines there or rather constraints as far as getting things done. 643 00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.519 But they have done a wonderful job in helping this fall. What are 644 00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:27.760 their views, I mean, what do they make of this whole thing? 645 00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:36.960 Uh, that there's something, there's something to Rendelsham that is important enough to 646 00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:43.559 screw around with somebody like John m hmm. That's basically what they would say. 647 00:57:44.199 --> 00:57:49.840 Wow. And do you know if McCain himself is aware of the situation. 648 00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:53.280 I have been, I have not spoken to the Center myself personally. 649 00:57:53.639 --> 00:58:00.400 John has and according to John, yes he is. Wow. It would 650 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:06.360 be so interesting to know how he feels about the situation. I'm sure he 651 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:13.360 finds it as repulsive as anyone else. But again, he's you know, 652 00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:15.320 he can only do so much, even as a city in US senator. 653 00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:21.719 But I think he's doing all that he can. Mhm. So it's really 654 00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:27.199 impressive. I think that, And that John has gone on his own, 655 00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:30.599 and I know he feels a little bit left out on his own. He's 656 00:58:30.679 --> 00:58:36.159 expressed, you know, kind of some disappointment with that he hasn't had help 657 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:40.000 from other renders, from researchers, but that he's gone out to seek all 658 00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:44.679 of these records and information, and it sounds like he's doing an excellent job. 659 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:49.440 I think he is. I wish I wish more people were like him. 660 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:53.400 M hm. He's the type of person that's going to make sure justice 661 00:58:53.480 --> 00:58:58.679 is done. So yeah, I mean that was pretty impressive. I mean, 662 00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:02.800 I think it's pretty revealing that that section on the UAP radiation he found 663 00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:08.360 in that U declassified document. What was it like? How did you react 664 00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:15.000 when when he showed that to you? Oh, it was wonderful, I 665 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:20.960 think. And also that that particular document appears to me to have been written 666 00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:25.559 in such a way as to try to explain Rendolsom away using the ball lightning 667 00:59:25.599 --> 00:59:32.719 and so forth. But I think there are elements of of of absolute truth 668 00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:37.639 in there as far as the effects. And I'll put it this way, 669 00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:43.360 I think it was written that was written with the Rendalstroom case in mind. 670 00:59:44.639 --> 00:59:46.760 Much of that. Certainly that page, that one page that I think you're 671 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:52.760 probably talking about primary. Of course, they referenced Rendlssom as well, and 672 00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:57.599 that wasn't just a happenstance. I think that's because that was the incident they 673 00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:02.159 were thinking. The author was thinking of the whole Commune brought it. Yeah, 674 01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:07.360 well, and this is you know, getting to the book there are 675 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:12.199 and just your feelings and if you've seen kind of some of this controversy. 676 01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:15.199 There's a lot of controversy around Nick Pope. I've spent a lot of time 677 01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:19.920 with him. I've interviewed him quite a bit. I think he's been really 678 01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:24.440 helpful to this field and pushing forward, you know, to get out information 679 01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:28.920 on the topic. But of course he worked for the Ministry of Defense. 680 01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:34.800 He makes it and he's mentioned this at times a little difficult working on this 681 01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:42.280 book because he is still under the Secrecy Act and they're in the UK, 682 01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:46.239 and he did have the book kind of looked at by the mod to make 683 01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:52.800 sure he wasn't talking about anything he shouldn't be. And of course then people 684 01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:57.480 have been questioning that, and some researchers in particular have said that they feel 685 01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:04.880 he's scrubbed the book a bit and isn't being totally forthcoming. Have you seen 686 01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:09.559 that at all, at least in what Jim and John have been working on. 687 01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:15.519 Do you feel that any of their information or your work it was suppressed 688 01:01:15.519 --> 01:01:21.760 at all in the book? No? No, I mean the four of 689 01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:28.360 us talked on more occasions than I can count during the time the book was 690 01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:34.559 being written, sometimes as frequently as once a week we would conference call to 691 01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:40.599 discuss the chapters and so forth. Anything that Nick. I don't think scrub 692 01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:47.280 would be the right word. I think Nick, if he did anything in 693 01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:51.320 that regard, it was just it was the way he phrased it, just 694 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:55.119 because he wanted to make sure he was not doing anything he shouldn't under any 695 01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:01.559 prior mandates that he had. I don't know. But is keeping anything out? 696 01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:07.599 No, No, I don't think so. I wouldn't buy into that. 697 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:14.039 So you I mean it sounds like have no reservations about the book or 698 01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:20.400 and you do not feel that with your involvement that you saw anything of that 699 01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:23.800 sort. No, no, no, no no. So are you personally 700 01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:29.440 very satisfied with the book and how it represents the at least what you've worked 701 01:02:29.440 --> 01:02:35.639 on? Well the goal? The short answer, yes, because the goal 702 01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:40.159 was to get the book out there with John and Jim's names on it, 703 01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:46.519 because previously they had not done that, and to put something down that would, 704 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:52.920 you know, talk in their words what had happened. And I think 705 01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:57.679 it was important to do that, And so in that regard. Yes, 706 01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:02.880 I mean, I'm quite pleased with it. M And have you? I 707 01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:06.920 mean, what's it been like for you working on this? I guess you've 708 01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:10.199 been an interested in the UFOs for quite some time. It sounds like you 709 01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:19.079 have facilitated events around UFO, so I guess your family and colleagues probably weren't 710 01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:23.519 too surprised you were working on a case like this. Well now, not 711 01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:27.719 necessarily. I mean again, remember I said, I've always had an interest, 712 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:34.239 but it really was not a public interest. I've noticed those since I've 713 01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:38.880 been involved in this that I now get labeled as a certain kind of UFO 714 01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:44.000 guy or UFO lawyer, what have you. Oh really, and that doesn't 715 01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:51.559 really bother me because, as you probably well know, the vast majority of 716 01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:58.679 people that discount the possibility of UFOs being aliens don't know what they're talking about. 717 01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:01.800 They don't know. They couldn't tell you one detail that couldn't of any 718 01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:08.239 great case that they don't know. But as you get into it, and 719 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:14.760 you start to read and listen with an opening in mind, then you want 720 01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:19.440 to start to understand that you can't just discount the stuff as being you know, 721 01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:25.039 whether phenomena or what has said. But and of course, something that 722 01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:30.400 Tom Carey told me once was you're not really in this field until somebody turns 723 01:04:30.400 --> 01:04:34.960 their back on you because you are in this field and they think you're crazy. 724 01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:40.519 And I've now had that happen. But I've got to wear this badge 725 01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:43.760 of honor. And I think, you know, Okay, that's cool. 726 01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:48.639 You can believe whatever you want. I'm gonna believe what I believe because I'm 727 01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:54.840 giving it a chance. You're not, so it's okay. Do you think 728 01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:58.400 it's hurt you at all? Professionally? I don't care if it has. 729 01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:02.920 To be honest with you, it maybe it has. And I kind of 730 01:05:02.960 --> 01:05:09.480 look at it as John and Jim and I were meant to join forces as 731 01:05:09.519 --> 01:05:13.880 we have, and I'm just gonna follow what the universe is laid out for 732 01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:19.199 me. Well, have you had those situations where colleagues who were skeptical took 733 01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:24.440 a look at the book and said, wow, oh yeah. Of course 734 01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:29.960 the typical reaction is, well, I never realized that all this happened because 735 01:05:29.960 --> 01:05:34.800 I never realized it was this in depth of people like these people were involved. 736 01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:41.760 It's such a thing, right, certainly when you talk about pilot's police 737 01:05:42.679 --> 01:05:47.840 and military personnel. The average person is going to listen a little bit more 738 01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:53.519 intently. Mm hmmm. Right. And rendel Sham is an important case, 739 01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:57.880 I mean, Nick Popike's to say often that it's the most important case, 740 01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:02.119 possibly more important than Roswell, probably because you know so many of the witnesses 741 01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:10.159 are living and forthcoming. Do you feel the same way I do, in 742 01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:14.159 the sense that Roswell, of course is Roswell and always will be. It's 743 01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:20.800 a standalone standard by which to compare cases. I think Nick is correct, 744 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:29.880 though I'm not sure if there's even one surviving witness now I can't recall, 745 01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:36.239 but there were up until well within the last ten years, but it's now 746 01:06:36.440 --> 01:06:44.199 kind of gotten pushed back so far on the timeline, Rendelsham is a lot 747 01:06:44.960 --> 01:06:48.920 just based on what you see on cable TV UFO shows today. You seldomly 748 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:54.880 see Roswell compared to the Renilsm. You see Rendelsom three or four to one 749 01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:58.679 to Roswell stories. And I kind of press you, right there, what's 750 01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:02.960 more popular? Yep, yep, but Randall Chem being of course really important, 751 01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:06.440 And then I you know, I should ask another great witness, of 752 01:07:06.519 --> 01:07:12.719 course, is Colonel Halt, who was a deputy based commander, and have 753 01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:17.760 you had much interaction with him? I have never, unfortunately, never had 754 01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:24.480 the opportunity to speak with the colonel he oh, well, take that back. 755 01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:29.840 I have exchanged emails, but I've never spoken to him personally, never 756 01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:35.480 spoken to him. I know he's very cautious, no doubt when he is 757 01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:42.159 he is, which is understandable. I would think too, he is. 758 01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:50.599 I've had the pleasure of meeting Major General Gordon Williams. He was very very 759 01:07:50.719 --> 01:07:55.599 nice man. Met him last year. And who was he again? I'm 760 01:07:55.639 --> 01:08:03.119 sorry I've forgotten Williams? Uh was? I think at that time he was 761 01:08:03.159 --> 01:08:13.480 already head of the Air Force NATO in that part of their area. I 762 01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:16.159 can't remember. His exact title comes up now. The two anthmates on the 763 01:08:16.199 --> 01:08:21.680 tip of my tongue. But he was over dent Waters was put it that 764 01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:30.680 way, and Colonel Hawk reported to him, I believe routinely, or at 765 01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:34.399 least in this incident, he did. The General was very much aware of 766 01:08:34.479 --> 01:08:39.720 everything. But the General is also very very tight left. I'll say that 767 01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:45.880 the Prince of Gentleman Knifeguard, did he share with you his thoughts on the 768 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:53.840 whole UFO incident, only to the extent that when he was through I didn't 769 01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:59.760 know if he was a believer or not to some of that rhetic rhetoric, 770 01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:04.319 administrative, bureaucratic kind of accounting, and he did not. He didn't say 771 01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:10.199 anything in support of it. Yeah, funny. So going forward, so 772 01:09:10.359 --> 01:09:16.279 you're still fighting to get the disability for both gentlemen, just John right now, 773 01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:23.560 Okay, and hopefully that will happen. And as far as you feel, 774 01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:28.199 you know what, can't can the person out there who feels for John 775 01:09:28.880 --> 01:09:34.560 do something to help that? Uh? You know, it's never And I 776 01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:39.199 want to emphasize that because this is one of the things that threw me into 777 01:09:40.079 --> 01:09:45.319 helping these two gentlemen. It's never been about money, and it's always been 778 01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:51.119 about the pursuit of the truth about what happened to them. And now, 779 01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:57.039 in John's case, because of the severity of the issues getting his disability from 780 01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:01.640 the government for the injury sustained there, I think the best thing would be 781 01:10:01.760 --> 01:10:08.159 to go on the Justice for bent Water's website or through Facebook, what have 782 01:10:08.359 --> 01:10:13.560 you, just to drop John a note and say you're support him. That 783 01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:18.000 means an awful lot to both him, It really does, and that website's 784 01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:25.159 justice for bent Waters. I believe it's justice for bent Waters. If you 785 01:10:25.319 --> 01:10:28.239 just go and put bent Waters Rendelson, you know you're going to come up 786 01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:32.720 with a variety of sites. And John Burrows is attached to that, Facebook 787 01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:40.119 and so forth, so finding them is not hard to do. So just 788 01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:43.760 some feedback, I know. Yeah, he's a lot on a lot of 789 01:10:43.840 --> 01:10:46.720 the networks, you know, on Facebook, I am. Especially lately he's 790 01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:50.840 been doing a lot of commenting and talking out there, which is great to 791 01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:58.079 hear from him. And I know there is a rendallstamp Forrest incident page out 792 01:10:58.079 --> 01:11:01.760 there as well. I believe people can go check out that they monitor. 793 01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:09.359 So just giving some words of support is helpful, it really is. That's 794 01:11:09.399 --> 01:11:13.039 a lot of the fuel that keeps them going. It's one of the things 795 01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:15.560 I admire the most about it. And how has this case affected you? 796 01:11:15.800 --> 01:11:20.319 Is your life different? Has it given you kind of a new mission to 797 01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:26.399 help out with this in this field? Or how does it affected you? 798 01:11:29.680 --> 01:11:32.760 Well, certainly it's opened my eyes to a lot of things that are going 799 01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:35.920 on that I never even thought about could be going on. And I don't 800 01:11:36.079 --> 01:11:43.800 just mean alien presence I mean the way our government is actually handling things. 801 01:11:45.680 --> 01:11:48.840 And my father was a World War two veteran, and so I've always had 802 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:56.520 a lot of respect for those those men and women that serve it. Also, 803 01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:00.479 it kind of keeps me looking to the sky a little bit more than 804 01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:05.199 I ever did before, just knowing that there are things, there are things 805 01:12:05.319 --> 01:12:13.319 going on that are beyond our normal everyday experiences, and every now and then 806 01:12:13.920 --> 01:12:17.159 someone like John Brows or Jim Peniston encounters them in a forest. So yeah, 807 01:12:18.279 --> 01:12:24.920 have you have you yourself had a sighting? Now? Not particularly I 808 01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:28.359 could sit. I mean there have been times many Oftica we wonder and we're 809 01:12:28.439 --> 01:12:30.960 driving home one night from somewhere, what a light is? It doesn't look 810 01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:33.760 like a plane, but nothing, nothing that comes to you anywhere close to 811 01:12:33.880 --> 01:12:40.439 this. Wow. But now that you're looking up more, hopefully you'll have 812 01:12:40.640 --> 01:12:45.239 your incredible sighting. That's right, all right, Well, thank you so 813 01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:49.960 much for coming on the show. This has been so terribly interesting and it's 814 01:12:50.079 --> 01:12:54.520 great to hear from you, and it's great that you're doing this work. 815 01:12:54.640 --> 01:12:59.680 I mean, this is really important stuff, and I think this story in 816 01:12:59.760 --> 01:13:03.680 this case is really important. I mean, just by the government withholding this 817 01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:12.880 information is confirmation that something happened, Right. I used to think that maybe 818 01:13:13.000 --> 01:13:19.119 not, that they're just keeping secret secrets of military hardware and so forth. 819 01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:25.720 I'm now at the point where I realized that it's not all explained away by 820 01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:32.119 that anymore, that it makes far more sense that something is going on. 821 01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:38.640 It reminds me of a quote by doctor Jeff Meldrum, Ida Hostate University, 822 01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:45.159 anthropologist's prominent figure Big sit world, right, And I heard him once say 823 01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:53.960 that it seems to him more likely that there is an unknown five feedal eight 824 01:13:54.159 --> 01:13:59.399 walking around in the woods up there than it is that there isn't that that 825 01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:01.920 explained things a little bit better, And I kind of feel the same way 826 01:14:02.159 --> 01:14:08.319 about this field. I think it makes more sense that something from outside of 827 01:14:08.399 --> 01:14:13.840 what is going on than it does to explain plain it away with all the 828 01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:16.000 other things that we've been trying to explain our way from. Right. Yeah, 829 01:14:16.119 --> 01:14:19.880 well, I know a lot of the listeners here will agree with you 830 01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:26.279 wholeheartedly. So and do you have an is there another website you would recommend 831 01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:30.680 people to go to, or just go check out the book and check out 832 01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:33.720 the Justice for Rendellshim that's what I would do, and I would let the 833 01:14:33.800 --> 01:14:38.840 guys know that you're with them, you believe in what they're doing, and 834 01:14:39.279 --> 01:14:44.119 good luck, wish all right, great, thank you so much for taking 835 01:14:44.159 --> 01:14:50.199 the time. Thank you all right, Thank you so much to Pat for 836 01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:56.319 joining us. Really interesting stuff. I mean, this is a really cool 837 01:14:56.439 --> 01:15:00.000 developing story. So we'll be keeping up with John. We'll have him on 838 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.640 the show soon to get his perspective on all of this, And of course 839 01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:09.720 you could read our story about John and his findings at Openminds dot tv. 840 01:15:10.399 --> 01:15:15.279 You can also read more about this in the Rendalshian book that they wrote that 841 01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:20.439 Jim and James wrote, or John and Jim wrote with Nick Pope about the 842 01:15:20.479 --> 01:15:26.920 Rendal Schamp Forest with the information that Pat had also you know, given to 843 01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:31.079 them or worked on. So all of this is in the book. They 844 01:15:31.399 --> 01:15:35.119 The book doesn't really chronicle all of John's research in all of this, but 845 01:15:35.239 --> 01:15:40.199 it does have a section that covers some of it. We covered a little 846 01:15:40.239 --> 01:15:45.279 more in our story on this, and then we'll be talking to John to 847 01:15:45.399 --> 01:15:47.640 get even more and of course Pat then give it, gave us a lot 848 01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:51.119 more of the story. But amazing story that really has to get out there. 849 01:15:51.119 --> 01:15:55.199 And this may be the one, you know, one of the new 850 01:15:55.319 --> 01:15:59.720 cases that really pins the government down to show that there's there's somewhat of a 851 01:15:59.760 --> 01:16:03.600 cover up going on of some sort of what who knows, So we need 852 01:16:03.680 --> 01:16:08.039 to find that out. So this is great step. So thank you so 853 01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:13.960 much to Pat. Don't forget to check out our video portal on our website, 854 01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:15.960 and this is a page you can go to where you don't have to 855 01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:21.680 buy the DVDs anymore of all of our lectures from the UFO Congress. You 856 01:16:21.800 --> 01:16:27.279 can now go to the site and for a few bucks a month join and 857 01:16:28.119 --> 01:16:31.479 go and watch all the videos you want whenever you want, or just pay 858 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:35.720 a couple bucks to watch one individual video if that's what you want to do. 859 01:16:36.199 --> 01:16:39.880 We have a dozen or so videos up there now, but we're adding 860 01:16:40.039 --> 01:16:43.640 more every month than when we're done, we're gonna have tons, dozens and 861 01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:48.000 dozens and dozens of videos up there. So a lot of incredible lectures from 862 01:16:48.119 --> 01:16:53.920 the past and that you're gonna be able to see. And you know what, 863 01:16:54.199 --> 01:16:59.399 it's research that is really important that hopefully does not get lost, you 864 01:16:59.479 --> 01:17:03.000 know, over time, and you know, people like Francis Barwood who was 865 01:17:04.039 --> 01:17:10.560 the city councilwoman in Phoenix during the Phoenix Lights, and she hasn't spoken very 866 01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:13.439 much. Not a lot of people have gotten to hear her full story. 867 01:17:13.720 --> 01:17:15.680 And I think it's the most incredible story when it comes to the Phoenix Lights 868 01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:20.159 because she interviewed thousands of witnesses and brought that to the city council to get 869 01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:25.039 them to do something and ran into a lot of problems. And then we 870 01:17:25.159 --> 01:17:29.520 also have people because unfortunately over time, people pass. One of those people's 871 01:17:29.600 --> 01:17:32.840 Lloyd Pie, has passed away. He did research on the Starchild's skull. 872 01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:36.720 But you'll be able to see one of his last lectures if you go to 873 01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:41.760 our video portal. So we have a lot of cool stuff there. And 874 01:17:42.279 --> 01:17:48.680 speaking of awesome UFO Congress talks, you can see them alive this February the 875 01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:54.279 eighteenth to twenty second. You can register for the UFO Congress. You need 876 01:17:54.359 --> 01:17:59.920 to get in there. There's still rooms available in the host conference hotel. 877 01:18:00.399 --> 01:18:04.520 Those book up quick. I doubt that we'll have any that will probably get 878 01:18:04.560 --> 01:18:09.840 booked up within the next month, even though we're months out. It gets 879 01:18:09.880 --> 01:18:12.039 booked up quick. So if you want to be in the host hotel, 880 01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:15.439 you got to get your room quick, and you got to register really quick. 881 01:18:15.520 --> 01:18:17.640 Otherwise, if you don't get in the host hotel, there are nearby 882 01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:21.479 hotels you can stay at, so no problem. But you definitely want to 883 01:18:21.560 --> 01:18:25.479 check out this year's conference. It's gonna be huge. We have a lot 884 01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:30.399 of incredible stuff. We have a lot of great speakers. We've got Jeremy 885 01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:34.279 like we talked about, but I keep talking about the Alligash guys. I 886 01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:39.119 mean, I was hanging out with Travis Walton this weekend at a camp out, 887 01:18:39.279 --> 01:18:44.640 and I keep telling people that this Alligash abduction case that will be featured 888 01:18:44.680 --> 01:18:47.680 at our conference is just as important as his case. And one of the 889 01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:53.159 reasons is because the witnesses are so down to earth, regular guys and getting 890 01:18:53.199 --> 01:18:57.600 to meet and talk to them is an experience, and just like with Travis 891 01:18:57.640 --> 01:19:00.800 Walton's case, because really meeting Travis Walton is one of the most convincing things 892 01:19:00.800 --> 01:19:03.560 when it comes to oat case because he's just such a down to earth guy 893 01:19:03.640 --> 01:19:10.000 and you really feel for him or when he talks about this story. So 894 01:19:10.760 --> 01:19:15.000 that's gonna be a really exciting one. So definitely go to Ufocongress dot com 895 01:19:15.239 --> 01:19:18.079 or openmindstat tv to see more about that. You want to check out our 896 01:19:18.119 --> 01:19:21.880 spacing out where we talk about Hong Kong and see the interview that Jason did 897 01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:28.359 with Jeremy Corbel. So a lot of cool stuff as usual at openmindstat TV 898 01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:31.680 that you got to check out. And of course mofon Sightings written by Rogermarsh 899 01:19:31.880 --> 01:19:38.640 every day, so get the latest mofon siting news. Thank you all so 900 01:19:38.880 --> 01:19:42.479 much for joining us next week. Thank you to Caleb Hanks for the open 901 01:19:42.640 --> 01:19:45.920 End Close music. You can see more about him and his excellent music at 902 01:19:46.079 --> 01:19:50.920 UFO or a I always say UFO Chronicles. That's a different site. He's 903 01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:56.960 at the clerk Chronicles dot com, so you can check that out. His 904 01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:01.640 music is awesome, So let's listen to it now as we say goodbye to 905 01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:11.359 our friends and listeners. Join us next week for another great show. Audios mood Tuchos