WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.359 Hey guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about 2 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:06.879 a way that you can help support the podcast. If you're not already, 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.919 we would really appreciate it if you guys went and reviewed us on Apple or 4 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:16.039 Spotify. Those reviews really help people find the podcast and help it get recognized, 5 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.320 and you know, if you've been enjoying the show, we really appreciate 6 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:24.039 your support. Another thing that you can do to support the channel is to 7 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:29.199 become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that started just five dollars 8 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:32.880 a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all of 9 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:36.520 our episodes add free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, 10 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:41.759 we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is the 11 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:47.799 biggest and best way that you can support the Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd 12 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.439 like to, and we really appreciate that. So go and check us out 13 00:00:51.439 --> 00:01:03.759 at patreon dot com. Slash the Teamhouse, Special Operations, Cobert SB and 14 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:17.959 the Team House with your Hopes, Jack Murphy and David Bark, Everybody, 15 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:23.680 I'm Dave Park Coach, Jack Murphy, d Behind the Wheel our producer. 16 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:30.239 Tonight, this episode two of the Team House. Welcome our guest, Rick 17 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:34.280 Kaiser, author of the book frog Man's Stories. Rick, we really appreciate 18 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:38.760 you being here tonight. Oh hey, thanks very much for having me. 19 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:42.200 I appreciate it. Yeah. And real quick, before we get to it, 20 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:45.480 we just want to do a quick plug for our Patreon. Yeah, 21 00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:48.959 guys, if you can check out our Patreon, there's a link down in 22 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.400 the description, and those of you who support the channel, you get all 23 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:57.959 these episodes add free. And we really appreciate you guys supporting us and keeping 24 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:01.799 this machine running. So yeah, check it out the links down the description. 25 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.639 So, Rick, back to you very storied career in the Seal Teams, 26 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:12.080 and what's your origin story, Like, how did you grow up and 27 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:16.319 what eventually led you to the Navy. Wow. So, I was born 28 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:21.400 and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, or Oak Creek actually a little south of 29 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:28.240 Milwaukee, a little suburb suburb, and I was one of five kids. 30 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:30.680 You know, I have two brothers and two sisters, and I don't know, 31 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:37.159 I guess I really didn't have a whole lot of connection to the military. 32 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:39.360 My dad, dad, served in the Army Reserve in the fifties. 33 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:44.280 Didn't really talk about it. Too much. I already had. I had 34 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:50.159 this fascination with the water, and I always watched Jack Coustille An undersea World 35 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:52.800 of Jack Whustelle. Right, so I was like, I want to join 36 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.319 the Navy and go on a submarine, you know, just like Jack Hustille. 37 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:59.759 And I went into the recruiter's office and this is I was like, 38 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:02.560 I was like the best recruiting guy you could ever have. Right, So 39 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.439 I was sixteen years old because I knew I was going to graduate when I 40 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.080 was seventeen, and I walked into the recruiter's office and I said, I'm 41 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:14.360 going to join, right, So he didn't have to do anything, right, 42 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:15.960 I just walked in, Hey, I'm going to join the Navy. 43 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:23.560 Yes, I had this pamphlet on his desk about Navy seals because I fully 44 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.840 intended to join to be a submariner. You know. Later and later on 45 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:30.520 in life, I was spent a lot of time on submarines, and I'm 46 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.599 so glad, but just you know, I hit my head so many times 47 00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:38.479 on the overhead I can't even tell you. So anyway, I had this 48 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:43.360 pamphlet about Navy seals and I took it home and I studied it, and 49 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:46.039 I said, this is really cool, you know, Okay, jump and 50 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:51.800 I can dive and I can shoot and I can be cool guy. And 51 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:53.960 I said, this is what I want to do. And I didn't have 52 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.199 a clue what I was getting into, and that's how it all started. 53 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.360 It's funny that you mentioned summaries because I think that as a kid, especially 54 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:06.199 like watching Jack Gusteau, you think that all submarines are going to have those 55 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:12.280 big bubble windows and you can you can see the sea floor, the wildlife. 56 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.719 And that's not what the submarine service is like at all, is it. 57 00:04:15.480 --> 00:04:19.079 No, it's not. It's not like with any sealed diving is like 58 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:23.000 either. I can't tell you how many times people have asked me to go 59 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:26.160 diving and I said, no, I don't. I hate diving because it's 60 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:29.720 always at night, right, So I never saw anything. It was just 61 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.959 miserably cold and I would have hit my head on pilings as we were diving 62 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.720 along, and it was just like this, this is no fun at all. 63 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:40.879 So yeah, the undersea world turned out not being so fun. Yeah, 64 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:45.240 that's funny. So tell us about like your enlistment. You know, 65 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:48.240 you you obviously you go through basic and then digit did they send you to 66 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.399 an A I T Or did you go to Bud's first At that time, 67 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.879 No, I went to a school. I went to a whole technician a 68 00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:00.480 school because when I went through, uh, you know, the Navy sees 69 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.560 the seal training as a bonus, right, So at every Bud's basic underwater 70 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:09.560 demis in seal training class, they lose seventy percent of the guys, right, 71 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:15.519 So that's seventy percent of high quality people that go right back to the 72 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.160 Navy. So I mean, that's a good deal for the Navy. So 73 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:20.800 they want them to be at least trained in something before they get to de 74 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:26.519 fleet. So I went to Hall Tech hull technician school and learned how to 75 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.600 a weld and be a fire fireman on the ship and stuff like that. 76 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:34.639 So when I went to BUDS, I was believed, you know, I 77 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.720 would have quit. I would have been a hull technician on a ship somewhere. 78 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:43.680 Yeah. And so what was Buds like for a young guy from you 79 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:48.360 know, the Midwest or around there, I guess the North. But you 80 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:51.600 know you liked the sea, But what did you think of the sea once 81 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:59.199 you got there? Well, obviously Lake Michigan is a lot different than the 82 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:03.639 Pacific Ocean, right, so although just as cold, it wasn't it's just 83 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:09.319 a different environment. So when I got the BUDS, I figured out really 84 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:15.120 quickly that what was going on, and I figure and I didn't know what 85 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.560 I was getting into in the long run, but I just knew that this 86 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:21.839 is something I wanted to do and I didn't want to be an embarrassment to 87 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:27.600 my folks or friends, and even though they had no clue what the Navy 88 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.319 seal was back in those days, but I just knew. I just didn't 89 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:34.279 want to quit, you know what, I did not want to do. 90 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:40.680 Yeah, so you get through BUDS and then what was next for you. 91 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:46.279 I went to BUDS and graduated class one oh nine. So if you ever 92 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.959 talked to a Navy seal that doesn't give you their class member right away, 93 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:55.079 they're not a Navy seal. They're just especially if somebody says it was classified 94 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:00.720 not a Navy seal, Because at the museum, would I run, we 95 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:04.160 have a database of every single seal that's made it through trading from World War 96 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:08.560 Two to the present day. So it's a matter of a click on a 97 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.199 mousepad. You know, you know, I don't know what the young people 98 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.839 use now, but anyway to find out whether the guy is a fake or 99 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:19.079 not. So anyway, I made it to Seal Team too. So back 100 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.920 you, when you go through BUDS, they give you a wish list, 101 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:27.199 right, so where do you want to go? So there was West coast 102 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.879 teams back then. At all the odd odd number teams are on the West 103 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.480 coast. Go figure, right, I mean that's that's the need something to 104 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.000 you, guys. So all the even number teams are on the East coast. 105 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:41.480 So that wellieve it or not, because you got to remember. So 106 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:46.040 when I graduated BUDS, I was only eighteen years old, so I chose 107 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:51.519 the East Coast because back in those days, Virginia drinking age was eighteen and 108 00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:56.759 I did not want to be stuck in California where it was twenty one for 109 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.319 the next three years and not being able to go out and have a drink. 110 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:03.240 I mean that's basically the you know, the decision point in my life 111 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:09.839 at death, like where can I get a drink out's And that's the fact. 112 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.759 And I think a lot of guys did that same thing, and thank 113 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:18.160 god I did, because in California and I know I'm going to have here 114 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.480 this a lot from my friends. They're really good at doing like volleyball and 115 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:26.240 surfing, and then the East Coast guys are doing all the operating. So 116 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:30.879 anyway, just a little inside joke there. So I was assigned to Seal 117 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.519 Team Too and under Master Chief Rudy Bosch, who was in my command Master 118 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.440 chief at the time, and uh, you know, I served there for 119 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:46.480 like five years and Winter Warfare I did. I went through sniper school Seal 120 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.639 Team Too. I also went to Combat Swimmer school at Seal Team Too. 121 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:54.120 So I learned a lot of my basic training at Seal Team two, you 122 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:58.559 know, waiting for the data i'll be able to operate. What So, 123 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.159 what was it like for a young eighteen year old showing up fresh out of 124 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:11.919 Buds to a Seal Team. Well, luckily, when I showed up at 125 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.080 Seal Team two, they had just taken a lot of guys from Seal Team 126 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:20.080 Too and put him into Seal Team six right, And at the time I 127 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.840 didn't even know there was a Seal Team six. But what that did was 128 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.840 it allowed me to go from Buds right to Seal Team two, which is 129 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.240 unusual, you know, for a lot of you know, BUDS recruits to 130 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.879 go right to one of the premier teams. And so while I was a 131 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.639 Seal Team too, like I said, I learned all these skills and it 132 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.879 allowed me to, you know, basically, you volunteer again to go to 133 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.759 Seal Team six. And that's kind of how my progression went from Buds the 134 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:54.720 two. Then I volunteered for six. When you were at two, what 135 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.720 was the time frame, what was sort of the geopolitical situation and did it 136 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.240 did you guys have a lot of real world operational missions or did it seem 137 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:07.799 like kind of a constant training cycle for you? It was, it was 138 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:15.480 a constant training cycle for us. When we did have a chance to have 139 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:20.440 a real world mission in Granada, we trained for probably six eight months for 140 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.320 that mission and then basically it was taken by a Seal Team six for whatever 141 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:33.559 reason that I'll never understand, but they at that point I was like, 142 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.000 well, I need to go to that team because I you know, if 143 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.360 I want to be able to operate, I need to I need to ship. 144 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.519 And that's why I left Seal Team too and volunteered for six. And 145 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.360 so what was that process like for you going to Seal Team six Well, 146 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.360 it's just like anything else in the Navy. You put in a request, 147 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:54.679 you literally fill out a form. We call it a request shit, right, 148 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.159 So you have to fill out a requestion for just about anything. Even 149 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:01.720 back in those days, had to ask to get married, believe or not, 150 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.159 because they wanted to make sure you're responsible, paid all your bills and 151 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:09.440 you know weren't marrying some they should, they should bring that back. I 152 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:16.519 support that, I agree with you, but it would never happen, all 153 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.159 right, So you fill out over question and then your command master chief, 154 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:24.360 who is Rudy Bosch again at the time, I've been there for five years, 155 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:28.399 and the commander have to prove it and then you get basically start another 156 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:35.039 six month training program, not so much like BUDS, but it's like more 157 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.919 to teach you how to do things of the Seal Team sixth way. How's 158 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.480 that because they their mission was a little bit different than the other Seal team, 159 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.919 so they their tactics and techniques and procedures were a little different, so 160 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:52.919 you had to relearn it all and then you know there'd be a weed out 161 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:56.519 period, just like there wasn't Buds, but it was for different reasons. 162 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.120 Yeah, did you find the training challenge? Did you enjoy it? Like? 163 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.919 What was your experience like with that? Oh, the training was very 164 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:11.399 challenging as far as the physical training. You know, most deals are in 165 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.600 good shape and can handle that part of it. It was the the mental 166 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:22.200 challenge about the jumping and the shooting and the uh you know their their their 167 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.080 forte was hostage rescue, so it was like a lot of shooting in the 168 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:31.360 killhouse and you had to be very accurate, think on your feet, and 169 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:33.360 be safe at the same time. So it was very, very, very 170 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:39.840 challenging. And uh, I was happy and uh, I won't say lucky, 171 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:46.720 but I was very I was very happy to make it through. Yeah, 172 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.519 and then what was it like for you once you sort of once you 173 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:56.759 did that, you graduated Green Team and get on your your team and Team 174 00:12:56.840 --> 00:13:01.080 six. What's that like do you? Is it is it being the new 175 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.600 the you know, the new guy all over again or yeah, you're basically 176 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.399 you're the new guy all the time, right, So you go through Buzz 177 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.840 and you think you're the ship. You get the Seal Team two and you're 178 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.000 a new guy, right for years. You finally get to a point where 179 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.000 you're like, yeah, you know, I know what I'm doing, and 180 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:24.720 then you've a volunteer for six and then I'm the new guy again, right, 181 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.320 so then you start over a net process again. So I felt that 182 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.519 the best way to avoid that again was not the move. So I stayed 183 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:37.360 there for the next thirty years. So so that was my plan. And 184 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.759 so how did you know, how did that go from being on Team two 185 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.559 where it was a constant training cycle and I'm sure that you're doing a lot 186 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:52.320 of training in Team six, but do you guys start to see some real 187 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:58.320 world deployments while you're there? Yeah? Absolutely, we sure did. And 188 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.600 and that was there was just enough to keep being interested because a lot of 189 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:09.000 guys got you know, depressed or you know, just a little board and 190 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.919 would move on. And I just you know, there was just enough to 191 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.679 keep me going. And I changed positions and jobs just enough to keep it 192 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:24.279 interesting and as the as the real world things would happen. Right, So 193 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.720 it was, it was it was a very exciting time. You know, 194 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.320 you're starting a family there. The good thing about six is that you when 195 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.200 I was there, is that you didn't travel, Uh, you didn't move 196 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.759 the family. I was at. We were always based in Virginia Beach, 197 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:45.559 so I did a lot of traveling from Bridgin from Virginia Beach, like up 198 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.879 to two hundred days a year, but I never had to move to the 199 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:54.000 family and the kids, right, So that was very important for me and 200 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:58.600 a lot of the guys. Yeah, and then can you tell us about 201 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.840 your first real world deployment if I don't know how much you can talk about, 202 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.440 like, but no, it's the very first one, believe it or 203 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.360 not, was the I don't know if you've ever heard this mission about the 204 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.919 Achille laurel Yeah, yeah, so that was that was my very first mission. 205 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.240 So we we flew into uh Cyprus, believe it or not, and 206 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.960 we're planning to take the the Achille Lara, which is a cruise liner down 207 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.799 because some terrorists had taken over. There was a couple of a number of 208 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:37.360 Americans on board, and it was a legitimate target. That's what we were 209 00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:39.720 trained to do, right, I mean, it's maritime mission. It's a 210 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:43.720 ship on the sea. I mean it's perfect. But by the time we 211 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:50.399 UH got approval to do that, the ship was pulled into poor in Egypt. 212 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.279 So and basically the mission was over, right, So we all jump 213 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:00.879 on a plane and are heading back to the United States, and everybody's taking 214 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:06.240 their ambien to go to sleep because it's a long play. And uh, 215 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:08.200 you know, a couple of hours into it also and everybody's like, get 216 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.279 wake up, wake up. You know, the plans changed, right. 217 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.679 So it turns out the terrorists guy on a plane, we're heading over the 218 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:22.919 Mediterranean, and US fighter jets under order of President Reagan forced the plane down 219 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:26.000 in Singing Ellis sic League right, So guess who landed right next to him? 220 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.720 Us. We basically landed at the same time a whole plane full of 221 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:40.159 Navy seals and set up a perimeter around the plane so the terrorists couldn't get 222 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:41.639 off. And then the next thing, you know, we were surrounded by 223 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:49.080 I shouldn't stay surrounded by but a number of Italian y Yeah, and uh, 224 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:52.080 you know, basically it wouldn't have been It would have been ugly for 225 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.240 them if they had done anything, because I mean literally, we had I 226 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:00.120 don't even know how many seals we had on the ground with with all the 227 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:06.160 armor and anyway, it would have been bad deal for diplomatically. But the 228 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:11.160 bottom line is that the then terrorists came off the plane. We're dealt with 229 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.519 with Italian law, and we had to take it as a win and get 230 00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:17.240 back on the plane and left. You know, Rick, I like to 231 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:21.400 take a moment here just to talk about that operation that you just described and 232 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:26.839 hear your reflections or insights into it, because what you've just described as an 233 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:32.240 incredibly complicated counter terrorism mission, even more complicated than a lot of the ones 234 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.640 we have today, where you're having to deploy to a stage and ground prepared 235 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:41.240 to execute a raid on a moving target in the sea, and a cruise 236 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.359 ship is obviously a huge number of rooms you guys would have to clear. 237 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.480 Then that rapidly changes into taking down an aircraft and you guys are having to 238 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:53.640 chase the aircraft into another country and then potentially, you know, breach that 239 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:59.119 aircraft and clear it. Looking back on it, I mean, I'd be 240 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.640 fascinated to hear, you know, some of your insights on on kind of 241 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:07.079 how that went down, and some of the lessons weren't well. I'll tell 242 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:14.519 you what, it would never take an ambient sure that the mission was canceled, 243 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:18.160 right, But I tell you what, even though I should I I 244 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.000 should say most of the guys had done it. I mean, you wake 245 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.279 up instantly, you know, when the adrenalinely gets blowing. That's the lesson 246 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:33.039 number one. So the the ship boarding and seizing part of our mission is 247 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:38.000 something that we train for all the time, right, so it's not unknown 248 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:42.160 to us. So it was it was normal for us. You know, 249 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:47.160 there's helicopters, there's boats. We're going to board this ship and we're gonna 250 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:48.599 you know, we're gonna take over, you know, certain parts of it. 251 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:52.960 We're going to rescue the hostages. This is the plan, right, 252 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.960 That's that's what we do. So that wasn't the hard part about it. 253 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.519 Obviously. The hard part was when we realized that the ship had made it 254 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.000 the port, right, because then everybody's on a super high, and then 255 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:07.880 all of a sudden you're on a super low because it's like not happening and 256 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.559 we're gonna we're just gonna go home, and we wasted, you know, 257 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.680 a week of our lives for nothing. Uh, And then all of a 258 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.119 sudden, you're all of a sudden back on a super high when they tell 259 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.680 you, you know, what's going on with the aircraft. And then when 260 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.680 you get to the you know in Italy and sit and singing Ela. There's 261 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:32.400 an American side and there's an Italian side. So the bad guys were smart 262 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:36.960 enough to pull their plane on the on the Italian side, even though we 263 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:38.960 didn't care at that point, and they surrounded the plane anyway, we weren't 264 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:45.640 gonna let them off. But most of a lot of the seals were also 265 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:52.480 on the American side, So it was just this complicated diplomatic standoff that luckily 266 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:59.279 our guys had enough maturity not to not to do anything right, because it's 267 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.839 a really literally a powder keg, and that's what happens. I mean, 268 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.599 all these missions, So one wrong choice and your next thing. You know, 269 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.599 you're in a gun plate and you didn't have to. Did you have 270 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.480 a member of the team that spoke Italian and could go out there with a 271 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.839 meat ball hands and resolve this whole situation? Every yeah, every you know, 272 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.039 I don't think intentionally because uh, you know, steals don't do a 273 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:25.599 lot of language training because that's not a job. You know, we don't 274 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.920 go here and talk to people, you know, talking into things. But 275 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.440 uh, you know, everybody has a couple of Italians in there, and 276 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:37.279 it's not racist. You know South Americans, you know speak Spanish, so 277 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.960 just by by nature Italian there's going to be a couple of hands go up. 278 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:47.640 Yeah yeah we Uh. Can you talk us through a little bit like 279 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:52.720 some of the technical considerations for actually clearing a ship, because you know, 280 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.680 in today's like military, we carry the five five six, the M fours, 281 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:00.319 but on a ship, I imagine you don't want something that that is 282 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:06.200 that high velocity. Is that correct or incorrect? No? I mean back 283 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:11.079 in those days we carried H and k MP five and I think and a 284 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:15.119 lot of times we would carry an empty five SD which is a silence version 285 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:19.279 and I still to this day. And you know, it's all about tactics, 286 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.359 right, So I believe that the first shipboarding that is the best weapon 287 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.319 to carry. You don't because you don't need I don't believe you need the 288 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:32.240 five five six. Maybe there's a couple of snipers you could do use them 289 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.240 that because there are some long shots on cruise liners. But interior to the 290 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:41.400 ship that is the best quietest weapon. So you could be clearing floor by 291 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.599 floor. The bad guys wouldn't even know that you're shooting. Right. But 292 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.759 over time, whatever it changed, so everybody's carrying, you know, whatever 293 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:56.519 their standard fire arm is at this point, H and K or sixteen or 294 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:02.079 whatever they're caring. But uh yeah, so yeah, it's all about a 295 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.880 tactics. It's like when do you carry a forty five or a nine mill? 296 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:08.319 Right, It's like whatever, whatever gun that you're good at, right, 297 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.000 whatever when you practice with, is the one you carry it whenever. 298 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.000 When is the most lethal is the one that you get accurately played? Right, 299 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.599 So anyway, that's that's just bricks cut and then and then what about 300 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:26.839 like the breaching consideration not going deep into ttpiece because we're not talking like in 301 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:33.200 a house with interior wooden doors. We're talking about heavy metal doors that if 302 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.880 they're dogged and kind of locked, like it could take a long You can't 303 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:44.319 just put a strip of you know, uh, an explosive strip on and 304 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.319 expect to get in. Right. Yeah, ships are very difficult to breach, 305 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.359 but the bottom line and cabin doors are usually made of wood. Okay, 306 00:22:53.519 --> 00:23:00.279 so so that those are relatively easy and your grass You're right about explosives, 307 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:07.279 you start using them on the board ship over pressure on the other side 308 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.200 of the door will kill the people inside. Rather that you're trying to save, 309 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.480 so we have to be very careful. So the bottom line is if 310 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.039 if there's a door we couldn't get in, we would have to leave somebody 311 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:23.279 at the door and to guard it, you know. But those weren't many 312 00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:29.960 doors like that. Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. So the stand 313 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.720 off with Italian police and the terrorist is all resolved, you go home. 314 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.839 What what was the next op that you guys were spun up for? Oh 315 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:47.519 jeez, i'm's a memory lesson right now. So back in those days, 316 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:52.839 and then the next thing that would pop up is probably like Panama, you 317 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.119 know, Libya, yeah, or Olibya. You know, there's I mean, 318 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:02.200 the bottom line is that, let you know, I've been fortunate enough 319 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:07.480 to be and I consider myself fortunately been involved in just about everything that's going 320 00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:12.920 on in this world militarily by the US since you know, eighty five. 321 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:18.519 So everything that you can think of, I had some role in it, 322 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:23.680 and whether it's been carrying a gun or operations or on the planning side or 323 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:32.720 whatever. So I'm very fortunate in that respect. Yeah, is there are 324 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:36.799 of those operations because I know a lot of your book is well, your 325 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:38.839 book is about leadership, and it's a lot of really like great, very 326 00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.920 succinct, big nets about you know, some of the combat, some of 327 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.359 them training, some of them just sort of like administrative sort of like the 328 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:52.359 uh the email you you know, you responded to and we can talk about 329 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.279 the book and a bit, but sort of going kind of chronologically. Are 330 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.480 there any of those operations that you feel comfortable sharing with us, anything you 331 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.480 can tell us about, whether you were there as a as a you know 332 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.960 a or Panama. You guys did some good frogman operations down there. Yeah, 333 00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.680 I mean, unfortunately I wasn't part of that, but Seal Team to 334 00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:18.039 actually had the first ship attack yeah by US Navy frogmen. Uh that actually 335 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.960 sank ship or disabled it, which ended up thinking it. So that was 336 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:30.960 a huge, huge opp for history. So I guess obviously the one op 337 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:37.000 that everybody likes to talk about is the Somalia for Blackhawk down Battle of Mogivshu. 338 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.079 I was. I was part of that. My sniper team was part 339 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:48.519 of that back in ninety three, so it was it was a hell of 340 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.799 an experience. You know, we've been there for months, We've done a 341 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.880 number of operations there and I think what I tell people is that on that 342 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.880 day, the bad guys just did that they wanted to play. When I 343 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.759 say bad guys, they should say some hollies. I don't think they even 344 00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:08.440 understood what they were doing or why they were doing it, but they just 345 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.200 decided that this is the day they're going to play the Americans. So it 346 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:21.640 was how did how did the team sex deployment sort of dovetail with what was 347 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.359 task Force range or ostensibly a ranger in delta deployment. I feel like your 348 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.119 guys' role probably isn't you know, talked about often enough, and I'd be 349 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.039 interested in, like how you guys played into the overall you know, operational 350 00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:41.400 tempo of how that went down. So back in those days, there was 351 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.960 always a rivalry between US and the Army Special Forces. Right. So the 352 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:49.880 general at the time that was in charge of the mission was General Garrison, 353 00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:56.640 and he decided that in order to integrate and try to alleviate some of this 354 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.200 rivalry, he would, you know, include seals in this operation, right, 355 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:04.359 And his idea was, you know, I guess four seals right from 356 00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:10.319 a sniper team. So that was it, right. So we had trained 357 00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:12.200 with these guys and we were on a cycle and you know, a lot 358 00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:18.240 other of my cover parts on the seal side. We were on this like 359 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.240 four month cycle and every uh once in a while we would go down south 360 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.759 uh and train with the army guys. And it's just so happened while I 361 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:32.160 was on a stand by, the call was made and we deployed with with 362 00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.440 everybody with tap pork Ranger as part of the group. We really didn't have 363 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:40.400 a mission because you know, we were a Navy and they didn't you know, 364 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.519 I don't know if they they didn't really have a plan for us, 365 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:48.279 right. We thought that you know, we did a lot of shooting from 366 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.720 helicopters. That was our job. We thought that's what they were that's what 367 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.240 we were gonna do. But when we showed up in country, we really 368 00:27:55.279 --> 00:28:00.920 didn't have a job. And then the general called into his cabin, I 369 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:07.519 shouldn't take cabin. It's like a little shitty trailer, and he just basically 370 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.559 told us our next mission was to guard a c I a safehouse, and 371 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:17.039 uh so for the next two weeks that's what we did. We guarded that 372 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:22.240 house in the middle of downtown Shoe were were you were you there when the 373 00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.759 case officer got shot. No, I was not there. Okay, I 374 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:32.839 was not there at that time, but obviously we were there afterwards. So 375 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:38.000 they were very careful on how we did business. And uh, as the 376 00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:44.319 only white people in downtown, you know, you stood out like a sore 377 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.880 thumb. I mean, like I said, again, not being racist is 378 00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:52.440 just the fact. So we uh, you know, we did a lot 379 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.559 of weird things like paying off a lot of different people to protect us and 380 00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:03.599 for whatever else Room was paying people for. And we we didn't, you 381 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.079 know, we didn't. All I can tell you is that if we were 382 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:10.799 going to get overrun, our plan was to go to the ocean. And 383 00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.279 that's what every good seal does. They take their fins. We run as 384 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:18.119 fast as we can to get into the water, and then we get the 385 00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.240 hell out of there. And that was our that was our plan. What 386 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.519 we didn't have to do it? What happened? What was it? October 387 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.839 third was the day of the big battle, right, yeah, so October 388 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:36.880 third and fourth, and so basically this is probably both. I would say 389 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:41.240 it's the fifth or sixth raid that we had made into the city for different, 390 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.839 you know, reasons, and this one happened to be that we were 391 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.799 going after the Olympic Hotel and there's a bunch of bad guys. We got 392 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:53.519 word that we're having a meeting there. So the plan was for the army 393 00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:57.359 guys to uh, you know fast broke on top of the building, and 394 00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:02.240 our job was to hit the ground for and wait for everybody to come out 395 00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:06.480 and either capture or kill him, depending on them. It was their choice. 396 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:12.720 And that's basically what happened when we got there, right. But what 397 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:17.720 was different than all the other times is that when we got there and we're 398 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:21.680 setting up on the target, people started shooting at us right, a lot 399 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.559 of people, and then, you know, so the mission went down as 400 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:30.440 planned and we ended up capturing you know, all the guys that you know 401 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:36.039 that weren't fighting and you know, basically tying them up, putting them in 402 00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:40.079 in a vehicle to get them back to the base. But unfortunately that's when 403 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.359 the first black Hawk was shut down, and then the whole mission changed and 404 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.640 we were in and out of the city like normal, and like you know, 405 00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:51.400 fifteen twenty minutes, we were there for hours on end, and that 406 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:55.319 gave it the enemy chance to build and build and build, and we saw 407 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:59.400 it, you know later on the video, truckloads of people just you know, 408 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.680 getting in and coming to fight. Just to back up a little bit, 409 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.240 what was the role of your sniper element. I mean you you weren't 410 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:10.920 with the assaulters, were you. We were part of the assault team. 411 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:15.279 But like I said, the main assaults would bast rope in and then they 412 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:19.640 would squeeze everybody down in the building and then they were escaping. We were 413 00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:23.359 waiting for them, right, Okay, so gotcha at the target building. 414 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:27.480 So that that's what our job was. So you guys weren't carrying on that 415 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:33.519 So yeah, you guys weren't carrying your long guns on that one. Uh 416 00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.720 well, at the time I had an M four team so with a scope 417 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:42.559 on it or choice for an urban. But you know, we weren't you 418 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:45.279 know, our job or snipers. We didn't realize we were going to be 419 00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:51.440 playing assault roles at that time. But well, our guys are straining, 420 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:55.599 you know. I mean I always liked to joke with the assaulters and tell 421 00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.440 them that the snipers are advanced operators because they go through assault training and sniper 422 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:02.799 training, right, and you can do either or but they don't appreciate that 423 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.960 too much. But uh So, after the first run in in the city 424 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:13.599 and we made it back to the base, I was able to grab my 425 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.720 gun from my counterpart that had been shot and was out of service, and 426 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:23.279 so I took his and four and went back out the next couple of times 427 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:30.240 out in the city with a smaller, more manageable urban gun. What were 428 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.559 those trips back and forth like, because you weren't you weren't really going out 429 00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:37.640 to uh, you know, to grab pocks or to grab prisoners U were. 430 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:44.240 There were the trips back mostly to like refit, rearm and everything. 431 00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.559 Well, the first trip back we went to UH, we were actually dropping 432 00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.039 off a guy that had wounded got wounded. This is my own personal story. 433 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.400 So one of the rangers was fast rope and he fell off the rope 434 00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:00.759 and uh we were taking him back to the bay and he was gonna die 435 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.960 right. So on the way back we ran into you know, you can 436 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.680 imagine the firefight that we ran into. We ended up losing a couple more 437 00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:13.400 rangers on the way back. So once we got back to the base, 438 00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:17.519 we refitted, reloaded, got some new humbies because ours were all shot up, 439 00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:22.559 and then we went back out to join the main force to try to 440 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.279 help them get back to the base because they had never left the city. 441 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:31.200 So sure enough we did link up with them, and we went back to 442 00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:36.519 the base one more time refitted, and then we went back out again that 443 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:42.759 evening to get the saying of the guys that are actually crashed in the helicopter 444 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:45.400 and the ones that done to uh to try to help them, so they 445 00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:50.279 were still stuck, So ended up going in and out of there three or 446 00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:54.480 four times. It's interesting because you know, we often hear about the rangers 447 00:33:54.519 --> 00:34:00.519 and the tad guys who were part of it, but I think a lot 448 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:04.519 of people are unaware that that there were seals on the ground then too. 449 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.639 So back in those days that was perfect, right, So nobody knew what 450 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:15.079 a Navy seal was or nobody knew what Navy seals did, and that unfortunately 451 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:19.519 that all changed with been live so that was it was a great thing. 452 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:25.199 Yeah, And so how long would you say in between the trips? How 453 00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:30.639 long would you say, you like the firefight lasted for you and for your 454 00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:37.239 for your team. Oh jeez, it literally lasted for two days. I 455 00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:42.880 mean, we would get a reprieve when we went back the base to reload, 456 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.800 but as soon as we left the perimeter of the base, it was 457 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.559 back on again. So it was it was literally that quick and then you 458 00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:54.360 would fight until you got back on the base. So yeah, and when 459 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:58.760 you when you were leaving the base especially kind of I guess in the in 460 00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.960 the last twenty four hours, was it to was it to engage, was 461 00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.119 it to relieve troops? Was it did you have a specific intention when you 462 00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:14.119 were going back out. Our specific mission was to rescue the guys that were 463 00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:16.800 from the down helicopter. And then we had a team of guys that actually 464 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:23.320 went on foot from the original assault hotel that ran over to them, and 465 00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:27.719 we're basically surrounded, right, So our job was to go in there and 466 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:32.920 get them guys out of there. That was our job. Something else. 467 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.960 Yeah, Yeah, you guys were out there flapping that day. It was 468 00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:44.800 it was you know, yeah, it was I don't even know how to 469 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:46.239 explain it. It was just like I said, it was one of those 470 00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:52.119 days and they decided to fight, and we gave him a fight, that's 471 00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:57.360 for sure. Unfortunately it cost us eighteen lives on the US side, But 472 00:35:57.639 --> 00:36:01.079 God knows how many Somalis. I know, I've heard numbers before, but 473 00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:09.119 just it was unfair gunflate, but we had to do it. Yeah. 474 00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:13.280 And then I think in your book, didn't you mention that you left and 475 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:17.559 you went back two weeks later thinking that it uh part thinking that like things 476 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:22.440 were going to happen again. Yeah, So we you know, at the 477 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.199 end of at the end of the battle, unfortunately we had a one of 478 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:32.920 our one sixtieth pilots, uh would happened to be the best pilots in the 479 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:38.840 world by the way, was actually taken captive by the Somalis. And we 480 00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:44.360 you know, obviously we're not going to leave when we knew one or more 481 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.360 of our guys were, you know, being captive. So we believed that 482 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:52.079 we were going to get the chance to go out there and the rescue them, 483 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.719 right, that was our job. So we were preparing for that, 484 00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.840 we trained for that, we went in the city for that, and then 485 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.800 ended up negotiating a release. So it actually it was a good day when 486 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.679 he came back to the base and we got everybody got to see him being 487 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:15.719 loaded on the one forty one being plowed in Germany. Yeah, and then 488 00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:22.400 and then after that, what was it Bosnia for you? After that the 489 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.360 next deployment, Uh, yeah, that would be that would have been the 490 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:30.800 next one. And Bosnia actually lasted for a couple of years, basically that 491 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:35.679 basically, But one thing I will say about Bosnia is like one of the 492 00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:38.960 few places where American soldiers could go into a country and actually fit in. 493 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:45.519 You know, yeah there you know, mostly Caucasian, Uh you know, 494 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:50.719 our size, and you know, it's not unusual because normally when a group 495 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:54.079 of steels walks in a place, there's like there's some unusual right, there's 496 00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:00.079 like a bunch of big, healthy guys walking around and they're not It's hard 497 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.840 to hide who you are, right, So in Bosnia had always was a 498 00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:09.480 little bit easier just because of the skin color and the size and stuff like 499 00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:14.000 that. Somebody had spoke to me, I would have given it up in 500 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.400 a second because I wouldn't understood what they were talking about. But other than 501 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:22.400 that, it was it was a fun place to operate in. I thought 502 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:29.960 it was always uh nerve wracking because you never knew what was going to happen, 503 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.000 because you never knew who was good and who was bad, you know, 504 00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:37.039 including the police, or or or the or the military for that matter, 505 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:42.480 because you never know who they supported, right, so if they're supporting 506 00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:44.800 one of the guys that were going after, you know, they would have 507 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:49.559 easily been a player's up. But it happened a couple of times, and 508 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:53.360 fortunately I never experienced it. Yeah. Yeah. One of the if I 509 00:38:53.360 --> 00:39:00.119 remember, one of the chapters in your book is was you know things go 510 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.440 right until they don't. It was about some of your experiences in Bods you 511 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.920 know, correct, Yeah, yeah, it was, uh, like I 512 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.719 said, our job was to find these we'd call them pip wicks, which 513 00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:16.440 are first first person's indicted for war crimes. Right. So these were like 514 00:39:16.599 --> 00:39:22.159 really bad, bad, bad people, you know, genocide type crimes and 515 00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:25.880 uh, but they had their supporters, right. So it was like it's 516 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:31.960 like operating in downtown Miami, right, So you're down there and people see 517 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.159 you, but they're not they don't trust you, uh you know, unless 518 00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:38.960 you're you know, you're known to them, and but you know, but 519 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:45.719 there's enough going on there that you don't stand out too much and things what 520 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.199 could go bad quickly, right, So it's just I don't know how I 521 00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:54.199 also explain that one it was just it was a military job, but it 522 00:39:54.280 --> 00:40:00.039 was kind of more on the secretive side. How that I mean, did 523 00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:05.280 were you working more like an intelligence capacity trying to find and fix these guys 524 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:10.079 or more on the finish actually going rounding them up. It was a sniper. 525 00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:14.719 My job was to find them and fix them and then we would call 526 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:20.079 in the back up and support the support the assault. Right. That's that's 527 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:24.960 what our jobs were as snipers, find fix and then finish it if necessary. 528 00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:32.920 But basically to support all the all the assaultiers. Any any any interesting 529 00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:38.519 stories about like whether on stakeout surveillance or like setting up sniper hides and you 530 00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:47.880 know abandoned rubble. Well, the obviously the people were here chasing weren't living 531 00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:54.280 in like poor conditions, right, so there the houses in the apartments that 532 00:40:55.280 --> 00:41:02.679 the guys were at were not poor. So we'd have to find like apartments 533 00:41:02.679 --> 00:41:10.039 close by or houses nearby to to surveil them from normally they weren't. There 534 00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:13.960 weren't a whole lot of woods around. And even if there was, there's 535 00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:16.559 there's people that are you know, hiking all over the place. There's no 536 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:22.119 way you could have hidden in those conditions. There's a few exceptions to that, 537 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:28.239 and and we and we utilize them when we could. But uh, 538 00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.960 like I said, for the most part, it was an urban type environment, 539 00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:36.280 and we tried to find places or vehicles that we could surveil the bad 540 00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:42.400 guys from. You know, can you kind of paint the picture for people 541 00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:47.519 watching and listening it's an urban environment, is there? Like is it mostly 542 00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:52.800 permissive for you guys? I mean, are people kind of walking around conducting 543 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.440 their daily business, you know, going shopping and stuff like that, and 544 00:41:55.480 --> 00:42:00.760 you're trying to find these guys or things a lot more tense in the general 545 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.719 sort of environment. Well, it's pretty it was at that time. It 546 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:07.280 was pretty permissive, you know what I mean. We could have walked around 547 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:13.280 without being noticed, but it's hard to You're not going to go into a 548 00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:19.519 Serbian bar or you know, a Yugoslav bar and not be noticed and you're 549 00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.519 hanging out there all day waiting for somebody, right, So there's no way 550 00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:28.519 you could be in that position without being questioned. Yeah, So we would, 551 00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:30.559 you know, we would do that things like that if we had to, 552 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:37.199 but it would be quick going and get a drink and leave and then 553 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:40.159 just to you know, identify somebody if they're in there, not just to 554 00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:45.239 make sure things like that, but other than that we would be outside. 555 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:51.440 Yeah, how did things evolve for you guys during that time? Because you 556 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.159 know, you're going from a place like Moged issue. You're going from you 557 00:42:54.199 --> 00:43:02.039 know, counter terrorism hostage rescue to much more of Aqestine form of operating and 558 00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:07.599 obviously, you know, like special operations guys, you rise to the level 559 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:13.760 of the mission. But was there was there a did you have to sell 560 00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:19.159 like the command back home on on? You know, there was this need 561 00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.400 for new tactics, for new strategies, for new types of training, things 562 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:28.239 like that. No. I think that's the one thing I do miss about 563 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:35.800 the being active Seal is that the guys and the and the command is very 564 00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:42.360 innovative, right, they always adapt to change wherever they believe the next battlefield 565 00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:46.320 is going to be at. So we were training and preparing for battles like 566 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:52.199 Bosnia before they came, right, So we were, you know, we 567 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.199 were ahead of the curve. In most cases, we are ahead of the 568 00:43:55.280 --> 00:44:00.840 curve and ready to fight wherever that fight is. Right. So like now 569 00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:06.320 modern day skip, you know, twenty years is uh, you know, 570 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:12.039 China, right, So our guys are are getting ready for that that battle 571 00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:15.679 or North Korea or any of these other places that are going to be the 572 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:21.239 next battlefield, you know, like like we had you know, in Afghanistan 573 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.559 and Iraq for the last twenty years. Yeah, yeah, and then after 574 00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:31.679 Bosnia. So how are you for because you're still obviously in Bosnia operating, 575 00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.800 but you've been in you've been in the teams for quite a while at this 576 00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.840 point in time. Correct, Yep, sure I have. And that's like 577 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.800 I said, I don't want to be a new guy again, so I 578 00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:49.039 just did. Yeah, And how is it for you as you're moving up 579 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:52.920 the leadership chain. So that's a good question because a lot of people ask 580 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.119 me that same the same thing because they used to think of the seal. 581 00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:00.039 They think of this guy that's kicking doors down and you know, doing all 582 00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:06.360 the So the bottom line is the longer it's like anything in life, right, 583 00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:07.880 the longer you stay in, the more senior you get, the more 584 00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:13.719 responsibility you get. Your jobs changed. So the younger guys are the guys 585 00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:15.440 that kick the doors in. The older guys are the guys that are on 586 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:20.840 the radio call in airstrikes. Or whatever other support and then they go in, 587 00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:25.199 right, So it's like it's it's just a changing of of of what 588 00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:30.119 your what your role is within the team. Yeah yeah, but I mean 589 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:35.159 you you were going presumably from being an operator to being like a team leader 590 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:38.039 to a troop leader. I mean right right, So I mean that's it, 591 00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:42.039 and that's it. And then you just as you become more senior, 592 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.800 you learn from others and uh, you know the best ways to do that, 593 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.960 right. So it's like, you know, when you eventually make it 594 00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:53.800 up the team cheap and you're really not getting involved in the tactical planning and 595 00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:59.360 that you're just managing the manpower and making sure they have what they need to 596 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:04.920 succeed. And maybe it's like an interesting time to also ask like what is 597 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.519 it like when you're the troop chief and you have to manage a lot of 598 00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:12.679 like a type personalities that are chomping at the bit? I what is that 599 00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:20.239 like as as from the perspective of a leader as well as an operator man 600 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:24.719 another good question. I would say that my style was I believe you at 601 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:30.280 least had to try to lead from the front. So anything that you were 602 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:35.000 asking you guys to do. You had to certainly try to do it right, 603 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:37.039 that's the example. You know. Obviously it might not be as fast 604 00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:43.039 or whatever, but I was. I tried and I did it, so 605 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:45.719 you know, maybe not every time, but at least they could see that 606 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:51.079 I wouldn't ask them so like for example, like in Bosnia, like we're 607 00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:54.400 just talking about, so you know, from the safehouset that we were working 608 00:46:54.440 --> 00:47:00.639 out of, it was myself and another guy that basically man and all the 609 00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:05.719 all the teams that would come in pick up, radios, vehicles, intel, 610 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:07.880 whatever. They had to do it, but they also used that as 611 00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:15.280 their time to get a shower or take a normal bathroom break. Right. 612 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:21.559 I guess we had to clean the toilets up right, the master chief did. 613 00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:23.280 So It's like it's just one of those things. It's just that was 614 00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.679 my role at the time, taking care of these guys, making sure they 615 00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:29.960 had to do what they had to do. And I clean a toilet or 616 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:35.880 too. Yeah, and what would never tell my wife that, right, 617 00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.360 It's like it's like raising your hand when they asked who knows how to type? 618 00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:51.679 What was your impression of in relationship with UH with the officers as you 619 00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:53.440 were as you were growing up in the teams, in the team sex, 620 00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:58.639 so you know, I know there was a lot of controversy there, and 621 00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:02.159 I'll be the first one to make oaks about officers, but I was crystal 622 00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:07.760 clear throughout my own career and who was in charge, right. The officers 623 00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:12.719 lead the seals right without a question. Uh, you know, if they 624 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.760 ask for your opinion, you give it. They enlisted in are the tactical 625 00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:20.039 leaders. It will tell you how to tell the officer how to take down 626 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:23.679 a specific house, but the officer makes the ultimate decision and nobody questions that. 627 00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:29.639 So whatever they plan the movies or whatever you hear on the you know, 628 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:37.880 on the internet, is that's the way it is. Yeah. So 629 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:42.760 going back to your book, it's it's a great book and I highly recommend 630 00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:46.360 everybody it because you know, you've distilled I'm not sure how many chapters, 631 00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:50.400 but each chapter is very short, like three to five pages, and not 632 00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.400 all of them are about combat. They're you know, yes, like you 633 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:57.320 talk about working with the Jaegers and what you learned you know from that, 634 00:48:57.519 --> 00:49:01.159 and you know, just a lot of really great things. Yet what kind 635 00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:06.119 of prompted you to write the book? I guess you know, I'll tell 636 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:10.079 you COVID did so like everybody else, we were shut down, and after 637 00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:15.480 like a week I was out of like the home repairs to do. I 638 00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:19.800 said, I know what my wife asked me to didn't you say you're going 639 00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:22.320 to write a book? And I actually started writing it. So it took 640 00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:24.880 me. You know, it took me about a year to get all of 641 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:28.920 it down, and then it took me about another year to decide to actually 642 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.400 get it printed. To be honest with you, and because like I said, 643 00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:37.119 it's a very controversial fine line for navy seals to be writing books. 644 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:44.079 Trust me, I have gotten so much hassle from my own friends, even 645 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:47.360 though they know it's not a book about war stories. And I was so 646 00:49:47.519 --> 00:49:54.159 great and this and that mostly about me and my book ups and anyway, 647 00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:59.079 it was. It's it took me a long time to decide to actually get 648 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:01.159 it printed, you know. And that was one of the things that honestly 649 00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:05.519 struck me about your book. Is it a lot of I want to say, 650 00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:08.400 foreign military leadership books are very much or like you know, raw rah 651 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:12.800 toe the line, you know, like you know, the motivational type of 652 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.079 leadership, and you know through this adversity, like this is what I learned. 653 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:19.519 And there's a little bit of the adversity in here, but there's also 654 00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:27.280 for like very human stories about like mistakes that you felt you made, you 655 00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.000 know, things that you felt like you paid for, you know. And 656 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:34.119 one of the stories that kind of comes to mind was the story about the 657 00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:38.679 email that was sent to you where a friend do you know what I'm talking 658 00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:45.079 about? Where from can you tell us that? Yeah, another master Chief 659 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:50.719 buddy of mine that was in Somalia with me and when nine to eleven happened, 660 00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:55.880 he was on the on the cycle and he deployed and with another with 661 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:02.559 another guy, and and he basically emailed me and asked me what I thought 662 00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:06.000 about the guy right, because I've been working with him for a while, 663 00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:09.199 so I not knowing it was a group email, I told him the truth. 664 00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:14.719 I did, but luckily I didn't write anything too terribly. But he, 665 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:16.480 I said, you know, just watch your back. I don't really 666 00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:20.880 trust him. So within like, you know, thirty seconds, I get 667 00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:23.000 a phone call at my desk and we call it the red phone. It's 668 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:29.440 just a secure phone, and it's that guy and he's like, Rick, 669 00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:31.000 what the fuck, what do you mean by this? What? And I 670 00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:36.920 just started doing like a Michael Jackson moondance backwards, trying to talk myself out 671 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.639 of that, out of that email statement. And because you know, these 672 00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:44.360 guys are forward, they are fighting, they don't need to be worried about 673 00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.920 you jerks in the back like me that are making some stupid comments. And 674 00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:53.519 but needless to say that when my buddy got back old of me, I 675 00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:58.360 did say I did call him, you know what set me up like that? 676 00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.719 You know I didn't the group e mail. I mean Jesus. But 677 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:08.440 anyway, the point of the story was really think about what you're going to 678 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:13.239 write or say. They can come back and bite you. It has that 679 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:16.079 happened to me a couple of times, and hopefully I've learned from it every 680 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:21.519 time. I don't want to gloss over anything if there's something else before we 681 00:52:21.559 --> 00:52:23.880 get there. But I would like to talk about the g Y, Yeah, 682 00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:30.239 absolutely, and how things in six start to change for the unit culturally, 683 00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.119 operationally. And I mean it sounds like you were there for all of 684 00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:37.559 it. Yeah. So what I tell people, and I'm giving them a 685 00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:42.760 tour at the museum is what nine to eleven did you know. It was 686 00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:45.320 a terrible thing, right, So we lost a lot of Americans. It 687 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:49.679 was a bad time for our country. But what it did for the military, 688 00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:54.000 it actually helped us work better together. Right, So, before nine 689 00:52:54.000 --> 00:53:00.719 to eleven, it was this constant rivalry between us and the Army. Amongst 690 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:06.280 other things. We didn't have the same you know, call signs or ways 691 00:53:06.280 --> 00:53:08.480 we did business, you know, from call the player, you know, 692 00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.599 for calling an airstrikes, so you name it. And what nine to eleven 693 00:53:13.679 --> 00:53:20.599 did for us at that moment is that it forced us to be teammates and 694 00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:23.320 to work together. So now after that, we've the next you know, 695 00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:30.280 up till the present day, they do exchanges. There's no problem in putting, 696 00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:32.440 you know, seals in with the army and Army in with the seals 697 00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:36.920 because we have to be able to work together because there's just so much going 698 00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:42.760 on now unfortunately that we can't afford to be this parochial. You know, 699 00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:45.320 Navy is best, Army is best kind of thing. It's it's not it's 700 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:50.159 the US and the best and I know, you know it's a little bit 701 00:53:50.199 --> 00:53:55.920 of raw rat there, but it's it really did make a difference, could 702 00:53:55.960 --> 00:54:00.000 you you know, get a little deeper into you know, what it was 703 00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:04.119 like at the unit, you know, after nine to eleven. Well, 704 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:07.960 you know, I was like most Americans. I was in the I was 705 00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:10.639 in opposite at the time, and I watched it on the news, right, 706 00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:15.000 but I guess, uh, you know, what we realized at that 707 00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:19.960 moment was that, you know, we were going into war. And sure 708 00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:25.039 enough, within a month, the entire command had was gone emptied out. 709 00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:30.639 I mean there was only myself and one other master chief left in ops to 710 00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:36.639 run everything that was happening, right, So it was just, uh, 711 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:39.159 it was just a crazy, crazy time and it had lasted for a couple 712 00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:45.519 of years before we started getting in help to manage that, if you can 713 00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:52.320 imagine, you know, because we had teams everywhere all over the world doing 714 00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:57.159 God's work and uh, you know, literally one of my things is uh, 715 00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:59.960 you know, and I talked about stress. I said, is any 716 00:55:00.000 --> 00:55:04.400 nobody dying? And it's like back in those days, you couldn't you couldn't 717 00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:07.679 say no to that, right. So now, like when you're in an 718 00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:10.760 office setting or at the museum and people are all stressed out, it's just 719 00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.039 like, is anybody dying at this moment, it's like, no, so 720 00:55:15.039 --> 00:55:17.960 it's you know what, so it's not that important or it's not that critical 721 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.440 that we saw is at this minute, let's just take a breath and move 722 00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:27.079 on. But back in those days it was true. So it's like we 723 00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:32.239 could never let up. Yeah, was there you know obviously, you know 724 00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:37.360 when when you talk about like cag and you know, everybody comes from the 725 00:55:37.559 --> 00:55:40.039 army in some way, shape or form, so they're sort of used to 726 00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:45.159 the idea of having the supporting arms, you know, the security and the 727 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:52.440 support while being the assault. Was that something that as as the Seals integrated 728 00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:58.639 more and more into the sort of land warfare ops, was that something that 729 00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:04.280 transition easily for them or was it? Was it a learning process? No, 730 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.760 it was a big learning process because we're in the navy, right, 731 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:14.519 so the naval special worker or how we did business was built around boats and 732 00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:22.440 naval maritime worker. Right. So the Army obviously being being the biggest special 733 00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:28.480 force out there by you know, ten Pole, it was in our best 734 00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:32.519 interest to learn the Army way, right, So everything from terminology to a 735 00:56:32.519 --> 00:56:37.960 lot of the different ways they do business, we would adapt so we could 736 00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:45.000 you know, interact with them, you know, you know, in a 737 00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:51.320 smart basis do our jobs because we had to work together and we had it 738 00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.760 was better for us to learn their method than them to learn the Navy method, 739 00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:59.719 right, because we operated like say, boat crews, right, So 740 00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:02.039 you know, the average army guy, I wouldn't even understand what a boat 741 00:57:02.239 --> 00:57:07.280 boat crew meant. Right. So I went back all the way to World 742 00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:10.559 War Two and there was seven guys in a rubber boat paddling on the beaches 743 00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:14.880 of Normandy, right, So then it moorked than the bigger boats anyway. 744 00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:20.280 So it was just easier to go for us from them platoons and squadrons and 745 00:57:20.440 --> 00:57:24.280 you know, all the Army to speak. Yeah, So during the guy, 746 00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:29.920 currently, if I'm wrong, you retired in twenty thirteen, is that 747 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:36.400 right? Yep? Okay, So during the g y were you were you 748 00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:39.679 already at a leadership position where you were sort of more in a managerial position 749 00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:45.159 or were you able were you still sort of in those assault elements? Moving 750 00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:49.719 forward? I was a sniper team leader. So back in those days there 751 00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:54.679 was each one of the assault squadrons had a snigpor element inside it, and 752 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.880 I was in charge of all those. So my job was to make sure 753 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:07.760 those guys were trained and equipped and ready and capable to do whatever sniper mission 754 00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.679 they needed for their assaults. Quadron commander, Right, Yeah, that was 755 00:58:10.719 --> 00:58:15.920 my job at that moment. And how was that for you? Oh? 756 00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:20.079 I love that, you know, I've been doing a sniper job for you 757 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:24.119 know, I don't know, twenty years at that point, and you know, 758 00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:28.519 you know, the technology that was coming down the road and everything that 759 00:58:28.639 --> 00:58:34.280 was changing, and the missions changing and the natural role of snipers were changing 760 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:38.559 drastically. It was it was a great time to be there, you know, 761 00:58:38.639 --> 00:58:44.360 I don't know, we talked about sniping in a traditional sense. Now 762 00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:52.039 that commission's gone, it doesn't exist anymore. Yeah, that's all gone. 763 00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:55.400 Yeah, that'll never come back because nobody's going to put a sniper in the 764 00:58:55.400 --> 00:59:00.320 field by themselves or even in a small team because the risk is just too 765 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:05.360 great, you know, capture or killing him and then that's a mission failure. 766 00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:08.000 Right when there when there are such different ways now with you know, 767 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.960 drones and everything else that you have going on. So I'm not saying the 768 00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.920 snaper roole a together is gone, but for the most part, I think 769 00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:22.639 the traditional snaper role it's history. So you're talking about an additional in addition 770 00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:27.039 to being snipers on, like the support by fire supporting the assault, you're 771 00:59:27.079 --> 00:59:32.960 also saying that snipers should take over part of the sort of the new technological 772 00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.679 movement when it comes to the reconnaissance and things like that. Yeah, I 773 00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:42.320 think for the most part, nowadays, you know what you're talking about shooting, 774 00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:47.400 I think most all all assaulters are snipers right with there. With the 775 00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:52.239 guns that they have and the training they have, they're very very good shots. 776 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:55.599 When you're talking about seals, you know, all our operations are at 777 00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:00.119 night, and you know, the most the max that you're going to see 778 01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:06.239 or any seal mission is about two hundred yards. So I mean, what 779 01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:09.119 is what makes you special as a sniper then? Right? So other than 780 01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:15.079 you know, doing some reconnaissance beforehand before the assault squadron gets there, I 781 01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.760 mean, I don't you know, like I said, I don't see the 782 01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:22.280 role changing too much. Unless you're assaulting a target, snipers will take up 783 01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:27.599 you know, high ground and but for the most part, anybody can do 784 01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:31.400 it that was trained in that mission. Right. Yeah, Yeah, I 785 01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:36.039 think that because we've when we've had people on before like apparently, I mean 786 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:38.519 I haven't seen them, but apparently a lot of the h like people don't 787 01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:42.559 even know need to know the formulas anymore things like that, Like their their 788 01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:45.960 scopes will figure all that out for them, you know, yeah, you 789 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:47.840 know, it's just it's kind of like the old the old guy and the 790 01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:50.960 kid, you know, teaching him how to use a map, you know, 791 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.679 like a GPS thing. But what happens if it doesn't work, you 792 01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:58.480 know, or the battery goes dead. So it's like one of those you 793 01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:04.239 know, those old guy argument. You know, I totally agree with you 794 01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:09.960 Rick that, like the the the prevalence especially of like drones and ISR and 795 01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:15.599 all of this now takes away a lot of the need for a human on 796 01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:20.000 the ground reconnaissance element that's kind of doing those And obviously a drone can also 797 01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:23.039 take lethal action if need be, which eliminates a lot of those roles that 798 01:01:23.079 --> 01:01:29.119 the sniper had. I think what's interesting though, is there are some thought 799 01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:35.119 that in future wars, the electronic warfare environment may be so intense that those 800 01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:38.559 drones and those other technologies may not work and you may actually have to send 801 01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:45.239 a two man sniper team in with old school stacked glass on a scope and 802 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:51.440 making field sketches. It's yeah, I hear what you're saying. I just 803 01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:54.239 you know, I guess we'll find out. You know, we talked about 804 01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:59.199 to the Ukrainians and yeah, yeah, yeah, because that's you know, 805 01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:04.320 what's going on over there right now is unbelievable when you talk about modern warfare. 806 01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:12.079 So when the lessons learned from that work or which is still going on, 807 01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:16.199 come out, we'll see I just don't see that happening, right. 808 01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:22.199 So it's for example, if there's so many drones flying around, they don't 809 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:28.719 even know who who's flying what drone from you know, Russians, Ukrainians, 810 01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:32.440 media, civilians, who knows. So if you're a sniper trying to sneak 811 01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:37.920 in on someplace, is all it takes is like one drone just happens to 812 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.599 be pointing in your direction at the at the right time. I don't care 813 01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:44.840 how great a sniper you are, you're going to get caught, right. 814 01:02:45.079 --> 01:02:50.280 So yeah, yeah, AI enabled drones with facial recognition technology and all that 815 01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:53.679 kind of stuff that's going to make it very difficult for those guys to hide. 816 01:02:54.280 --> 01:02:59.079 Yeah, And it's I mean, it's the position right. And you 817 01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:01.760 know when you talk about like the old school sniper mission, like it's terrifying 818 01:03:01.800 --> 01:03:06.559 when you watch some of those videos of a guy out there thinking he's being 819 01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:09.559 all stealthy. Meanwhile a drone's just watching him. And then you watch the 820 01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:14.920 release of the drones like bomb and it's like the guy just rolls over and 821 01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:19.159 it's like, well, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, it's very 822 01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:22.760 interesting. It's very interesting. I don't know what's going to happen. We'll 823 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:30.000 see. So what what you started up? The museum? Can you tell 824 01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:34.039 us about the museum? The Navy Seal Museum. We have two of them, 825 01:03:34.599 --> 01:03:37.639 one of them in Fort Pierce, Florida, which is the birthplace of 826 01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:43.239 the Navy Seal. That's where the guy's bought and trained for the land on 827 01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:46.280 the beaches of Normandy for World War two. And the second one is in 828 01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:52.320 San Diego, California, which will be opening in December. So we have 829 01:03:52.400 --> 01:03:54.679 two of them. And you know, our job is to preserve the history 830 01:03:54.679 --> 01:04:00.920 and heriage in the prog man on our fallen and take care of our families. 831 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:05.039 And I think what our mission is morphing into nowadays, more than ever, 832 01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:10.719 it's just to teach young people that aren't exposed to it about you know, 833 01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:15.039 honor, courage, commitment, and sacrifice, all those things that they're 834 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:17.079 not getting out in the world, you know, especially a lot of the 835 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:24.360 schools, just exposing them to something different, right, maybe something bigger than 836 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:28.639 themselves that they can maybe try in their lives. And they don't have to 837 01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:31.920 join the military, but they can maybe join the peace Corps or just do 838 01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:38.360 something that's not all about you and your TikTok and all that other craft. 839 01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:45.159 Yeah, yeah, that's that's what our museum. That's it in a nutshell. 840 01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.480 You some of those stories in the book if you don't mind, because 841 01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.719 you know they're not necessarily combat oriented. But can you talk about your like 842 01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:57.800 your time with the chapter I think chapter six or something, but like with 843 01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:00.000 the Jaegers, and like what kind of how that influence you? Because what 844 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:03.760 I thought was cool in the book is a lot of these like moments that 845 01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:10.559 catch your attention, that sort of mold you and influence you. Right. 846 01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:13.840 So back in those days, I was in Salt two and a winter worker 847 01:05:13.880 --> 01:05:18.199 platoon, and our job was Arctic worker, right, so we would literally 848 01:05:18.280 --> 01:05:25.800 go with the Norwegians and ski patrol the border of Russia. Right, So 849 01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:30.239 I think about that nowadays and I'm just like, boy, you know, 850 01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:32.840 I guess a lot of things have changed since then, But that was the 851 01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:35.239 way to do it back in those days, and I learned. I was 852 01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:41.360 able to learn from the best, right. The Norwegians were the phenomenal skiers. 853 01:05:41.400 --> 01:05:45.360 They knew how to live in the cold, and we worked together to 854 01:05:45.079 --> 01:05:51.599 you know, form a relationship and a partnership that you know, if something 855 01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:56.079 did happen, we were ready to play. So it was just one of 856 01:05:56.119 --> 01:06:00.960 those things that was a great experience in my life. Will never happen again 857 01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:04.559 because, like you said, technology has taken over that job. And you 858 01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:06.920 know, I think about that now. What all it takes is one set 859 01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:12.119 of ski tracks for a helicopter. Just be and and you know, don't 860 01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:14.880 say don't say that, Rick. Our guys are over there in Sweden and 861 01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.840 Norway training all the time. Yeah. Well, if they think they're going 862 01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:25.159 to ski somewhere, maybe snowmobiles? Yeah, what are what are like some 863 01:06:25.719 --> 01:06:29.800 I'm sorry, go ahead, oh but like what are what are some of 864 01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:34.239 the other like if there were one or two? Like really, I don't 865 01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:42.719 know a formative things that that you recall because you had an incredible career and 866 01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:45.559 you and and and and in a peacetime world, like you said, you 867 01:06:45.599 --> 01:06:51.320 saw every you know, prior to the g Y, you saw every military 868 01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:57.360 action there was or a part of it somehow. So I'd really be curious 869 01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:00.480 to know, like if you know, you have these museums to speak to 870 01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:02.119 young people, like if you could speak to people like, what were some 871 01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:09.519 of the really formative things that you saw that happened to you? Wow? 872 01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:15.760 I guess the point is that if you have a young person that has any 873 01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:24.119 desire to serve, you know, directing them to the museum or other veterans 874 01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:29.960 to try to help them through it, I think is phenomenal because there's just 875 01:07:30.079 --> 01:07:35.800 not that many places out there like that, or veterans for that matter. 876 01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:41.599 I mean, I think there's two percent of this country or veterans, which 877 01:07:41.639 --> 01:07:45.480 is not a big number. So if you have a kid wherever in Brooklyn, 878 01:07:46.719 --> 01:07:49.800 you know there are odds a meeting somebody are slim and none because it's 879 01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:55.000 not in their world. So a place like the museum, or in my 880 01:07:55.119 --> 01:08:00.480 case, when I went to the recruiter's office and then was able to go 881 01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:05.880 down to Great Lakes and take my screening test from a Navy seal that was 882 01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:09.639 actually getting it to him, even though I wasn't in the Navy yet. 883 01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:14.320 That was you know, priceless for me, right, So I actually got 884 01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:16.840 to talk to him, figure it out, put myself to the test to 885 01:08:16.880 --> 01:08:20.880 make sure I get passed, and then and I did. So it was 886 01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:25.960 even still at that point not really knowing what I was getting into. But 887 01:08:26.720 --> 01:08:30.039 you know, I think, you know, anytime you can nurture something like 888 01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:35.520 that in the young person or even an older folk, it's invaluable to us 889 01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:40.760 now, and I think it's more important than ever in our country. So 890 01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:46.920 I hope the answers your question, Yeah, absolutely, Are there aside from 891 01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:49.560 like some of the things you've talked about in the book, though, are 892 01:08:49.640 --> 01:09:00.000 there are there moments that you remember back too, and that you recall that 893 01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:03.039 that made such a huge imprint on you in that moment that it's psych it 894 01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:09.640 changed. I think, you know, like I've written in the book, 895 01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:15.279 and why I think I made a number of those chapters is because when I 896 01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:19.119 made mistakes, that's when I learned the most, you know, when I 897 01:09:19.159 --> 01:09:27.159 was held held accountable for my actions and I had a chance to actually and 898 01:09:27.279 --> 01:09:30.880 luckily they didn't you know, cost anybody their lives. I was you know, 899 01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:34.399 it meant something to me because I was a lesson learned and I took 900 01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:38.520 it on board. You know, never try to do that again, right, 901 01:09:38.520 --> 01:09:41.359 And I think you know, throughout the book, I think you'll see 902 01:09:41.399 --> 01:09:45.159 a number of those times when I did make mistakes and I did learn and 903 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:49.640 I hope I became a better leader from them. Yeah, yeah, I 904 01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:54.039 think that's Uh. I think that's really interesting though, is because people we've 905 01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.359 talked to you in the past two like they've had one or two good leaders 906 01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:02.640 along their way that really informed how they wanted to be a leader and kind 907 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:09.199 of changed what they saw as a leader. Yeah. Absolutely, so. 908 01:10:09.439 --> 01:10:12.000 Yeah, and I've worked with a bunch of great ones and I've worked with 909 01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:16.720 a bunch of bad ones. And uh so, you know, obviously, 910 01:10:16.840 --> 01:10:20.560 when of yourself how the good ones and both the bad ones lead. But 911 01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:24.640 it happens a lot of times in the navyes a lot of the bad ones 912 01:10:25.720 --> 01:10:30.359 hang around, right because they they just you know, if you'll ask long 913 01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:34.520 enough, you get promoted. Yeah. Unfortunately, so, but the good 914 01:10:34.520 --> 01:10:41.880 ones that ultimately end up winning overall? Can can we talk about that fermento 915 01:10:41.960 --> 01:10:46.760 the bad ones? Because the mill like a bad management or bad leadership, 916 01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:51.159 any job can make that job miserable. The problem in the military is that 917 01:10:51.159 --> 01:10:58.560 that person has a significant amount more control over you than a bad manager does 918 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:02.399 at the office. Here, how what would you recommended people or what in 919 01:11:02.439 --> 01:11:08.079 your experience? How do you make it through those leadership challenges those bad leaders? 920 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:13.640 Well, there's a couple of ways. In the Navy, at least 921 01:11:14.319 --> 01:11:18.439 every two years, the bad leaders would leave, right, so they would 922 01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:21.079 be in command for two years and then they move on. So if you 923 01:11:21.079 --> 01:11:26.560 could last the first place in time, right, if you could lasted two 924 01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:30.079 years, you got it made. The second way is that you know, 925 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.079 for yourself, you got to make a decision right. If they are that 926 01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:39.880 or and you are just that unhappy, it's time for you to go right 927 01:11:40.039 --> 01:11:45.760 because you know, no, no bad leader is worth your soul, you 928 01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:49.840 know what I mean. So I may actually made that decision when I left 929 01:11:50.399 --> 01:11:53.880 Steal Team six, I was just like, Okay, I've had I've been 930 01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:56.920 there a long time, I'd hadn't enough, It's time to move on. 931 01:11:57.920 --> 01:12:01.359 But this one guy helped me make a move right, So it was all 932 01:12:01.479 --> 01:12:09.279 It's all I needed. How important do you think leadership is to culture? 933 01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:14.199 You know, when we hear about some of the challenges that certain steal units 934 01:12:14.239 --> 01:12:17.479 have had, or certain special forces units have had, how much do you 935 01:12:17.479 --> 01:12:21.920 think is the guys and how much do you think that is attributed to just 936 01:12:23.039 --> 01:12:28.079 poor leadership. I think it's it's poor. It's all a poor leadership. 937 01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:31.279 And I'm not just talking officers. I'm talking senior in listing guys. So 938 01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:35.439 when you have a poor officer and a poor little senior listed, is a 939 01:12:35.600 --> 01:12:40.520 recipe for disaster. And I think if you look back at the problems of 940 01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:45.319 the past in the in the particular seal teams, you'll see that that was 941 01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:51.640 the combination or a senior listed and a poor officer, you know, or 942 01:12:51.640 --> 01:12:56.560 it's in the Navy or runner list. Right, you're just going in circle 943 01:12:56.720 --> 01:13:00.760 girl all over the place, and I think, uh, you know, 944 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:04.479 I listed counterparts. I won't want to hear this, but I think in 945 01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:09.600 most cases what ends up happening is the officers and are the ones that end 946 01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:15.079 up getting the discipline or whatever is going to happen or the blame but a 947 01:13:15.079 --> 01:13:19.079 lot of times it falls squarely on the senior list of guy too, and 948 01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:25.119 they need to step up. Yeah. No, it's interesting because I mean 949 01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:29.039 we've we've talked about not just with the Seals, but with Special Forces and 950 01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:31.159 some of the challenges they're going through, you know, the Green Beret and 951 01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:38.640 whatnot. That. Yeah, it's you know, it's hard to tell sometimes. 952 01:13:38.720 --> 01:13:42.319 Is it some cultural rot that these that happens in these units? Is 953 01:13:42.359 --> 01:13:45.720 it just is it just a top down problem? Is it a middle up 954 01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:49.720 and down problem? Like where does it start? No? I think, 955 01:13:49.840 --> 01:13:54.399 uh, you know, now you're really getting into deep into this, but 956 01:13:54.520 --> 01:13:59.439 uh, I think it's accountability. You've got to hold people accountable for their 957 01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:01.920 actions. And what happens, at least from what I've seen, is that 958 01:14:01.960 --> 01:14:08.000 when people aren't held accountable, no matter what where they are in there, 959 01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:13.079 you know, in the position whether they're a squadron leader or a team chief, 960 01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:15.439 they have to be held accountable. And if you don't and you let 961 01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:18.319 them get away with it, the younger guys see that, and it just 962 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:24.640 that's when the culture starts, and you know, there's there's no way to 963 01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:29.119 fix it, right, And then if you happen to you know, do 964 01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:32.159 the same, you know, hold somebody else accountable for something that somebody else 965 01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:36.319 just got away with. Then it makes it even worse. Then they clearly 966 01:14:36.399 --> 01:14:40.560 know that there's not It's like what's going on now in the country, right, 967 01:14:40.640 --> 01:14:44.840 So it's like, you know, if people think other people are being 968 01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:53.520 held accountable and others aren't, it's it's just bad, right Yeah, yeah, 969 01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:57.560 check or anything else. I mean, no, that's that's I mean. 970 01:14:57.560 --> 01:14:59.800 Do we have any questions? Oh yeah, let me check the question 971 01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:09.760 We got a bunch of do we Let me try to pull those up for 972 01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:15.319 you. I'll get to the questions here on the YouTube one in the youtubees 973 01:15:16.159 --> 01:15:20.439 one in the tubes. Oh you actually have live questions. Yeah yeah we 974 01:15:20.479 --> 01:15:24.840 do. Oh yeah, you guys are like high speed. People want to 975 01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:35.000 people want to know. Let's see here, what's the bottle of sitting on 976 01:15:35.039 --> 01:15:40.399 the desk. There is that lock of ooling. We got lock of uling, 977 01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:46.399 we have seventeen ninety two, and then we've got bullet excellent. Yeah. 978 01:15:46.479 --> 01:15:49.159 Rick, if you're ever swinging through New York, feel free to come 979 01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:53.279 by, have a have a couple of drinks with us. I'd love to 980 01:16:01.239 --> 01:16:05.479 so here. Thank you, Stu Rick, can you share your thoughts on 981 01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:11.600 the folks out there who think BUDS is unnecessarily too hard and what is going 982 01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:19.079 on with former BUDS CEO Brad g Okay, So a good question. Do 983 01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:24.439 I believe it's too hard to answer? That is no. And the BUDS 984 01:16:24.479 --> 01:16:28.800 has been the same for eighty years, right. It started in Fort Pierce, 985 01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:31.039 Florida, right here at the Navy Seal Museum, and it hasn't really 986 01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:38.439 changed in eighty years. And what's unique about it is it trains guys to 987 01:16:38.720 --> 01:16:44.520 quit in training and not in combat. That's the whole goal, right, 988 01:16:44.520 --> 01:16:48.800 And the instructors are masters of getting guys to quit. So it's all it's 989 01:16:48.840 --> 01:16:53.960 all in your head. So I think it's an important part of steel training. 990 01:16:54.000 --> 01:17:00.279 I don't think it should change. I think it's what keeps us at 991 01:17:00.279 --> 01:17:06.600 the top of the food chain is our our standards, and without holding those 992 01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:12.520 standards, we would be like everybody else. When you start changing the standards, 993 01:17:12.560 --> 01:17:15.560 then all of a sudden, anybody can make it in. And you 994 01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:19.359 know, there's a reason that the requirement is like fifteen pull ups for a 995 01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:24.279 seal because you have to be able to climate caving ladder to board a ship. 996 01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:27.199 Right, So there's a lot of different things. And if you change 997 01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:30.159 that, then what are you saying that you don't have to climb a ship 998 01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:39.960 anymore? So anyway, as far as Brad, I can't really make a 999 01:17:40.039 --> 01:17:45.520 judgment on that. You know, he was in a shitty situation during shitty 1000 01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:53.439 time. There have been death set budds before, unfortunately, but I can 1001 01:17:53.479 --> 01:17:57.439 assure you that there's you know, when it does happen, it's unfortunate, 1002 01:17:57.479 --> 01:18:01.920 but there's so many safety uh safeties in place, and you know, it's 1003 01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:06.119 it's very rare. And in this case, you know, when when something 1004 01:18:06.199 --> 01:18:12.399 like that happens, they have to blame somebody, right, Yeah, I 1005 01:18:12.479 --> 01:18:16.359 have some questions here. This one's from Alex. He asks what were some 1006 01:18:16.479 --> 01:18:21.079 of the biggest cultural shifts in Seal Team six from when you started to when 1007 01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:27.119 you left? I think, uh, one of the biggest shifts was, 1008 01:18:27.159 --> 01:18:29.720 like, you know, when I first came in there, you know your 1009 01:18:29.840 --> 01:18:35.119 value for your your physical ability, your ability to shoot, move, communicate, 1010 01:18:35.199 --> 01:18:40.079 that kind of stuff. And I think what's happened now is that you 1011 01:18:40.159 --> 01:18:44.520 still have to do all that stuff. Plus you have to be tech savvy, 1012 01:18:44.760 --> 01:18:47.960 right, right, so that's that's the big shift there. So every 1013 01:18:48.119 --> 01:18:50.560 you have to do everything I used to do, plus you have to know 1014 01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:56.159 all this other stuff like you know all the new radios and the GPS's and 1015 01:18:56.199 --> 01:19:00.239 everything else that is a required laser range trying. That's required to do your 1016 01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:03.800 job now. So you have to have some sort of savvay to be able 1017 01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:08.119 to do that. So I'd like to think I still could do that, 1018 01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:13.560 but we'll never know. I don't know if you can, if you have 1019 01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:16.880 any experience with this one. But sim asks, how was Richard Marsenko in 1020 01:19:16.920 --> 01:19:26.319 reality compared to his rogue warrior PERSONA? Okay, I actually knew yeah Marcinko 1021 01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:32.359 very well, and he had a number of times to speak to him and 1022 01:19:32.439 --> 01:19:36.800 with him. So what I'll tell you about mrcinko is this, there was 1023 01:19:38.319 --> 01:19:43.760 no single man in the Navy that could have done what he did, and 1024 01:19:43.760 --> 01:19:47.159 that was to start to steal Team six. And he did it all on 1025 01:19:47.319 --> 01:19:50.439 his own right. It was his idea. You happen to be the right 1026 01:19:50.439 --> 01:19:54.800 guy in the right place at the right time. Now you're either a lover 1027 01:19:54.960 --> 01:20:01.199 or a hater him, So you know, I don't particularly care for what 1028 01:20:01.279 --> 01:20:05.920 he did because when I was the whole time I was at Seal Team six, 1029 01:20:06.039 --> 01:20:12.319 we were paying for the price for what he had done in the Navy, 1030 01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:15.000 and there's a lot of bad blood between our command and the rest of 1031 01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:20.880 the military how he let it. But other than that, like that, 1032 01:20:21.079 --> 01:20:26.680 that's what I'll say. He was larger than life. He was, you 1033 01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:31.760 know, obviously a war hero in Vietnam, and like I said, he 1034 01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:38.520 it is something that nobody else could do to ever. Again, I got 1035 01:20:38.520 --> 01:20:43.319 to have a lunch with him once and absolutely agree, very colorful character, 1036 01:20:43.479 --> 01:20:46.720 larger than life, no doubt about it. Yeah, and his little ponytail. 1037 01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:54.640 There. Sean has two questions here, did you learn any cool ocean 1038 01:20:54.680 --> 01:20:59.079 rescue techniques that you can talk about? The cool ocean rescue technique? So 1039 01:20:59.279 --> 01:21:01.560 you go through but as your tought life saving So every seal goes through life 1040 01:21:01.560 --> 01:21:04.760 saving training. You have to be able to save your buddy in case they're 1041 01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:09.920 in trouble, and the ultimate test of that training is that you have to 1042 01:21:09.960 --> 01:21:15.359 go save I can't remember how many instructors right back to back, and I 1043 01:21:15.399 --> 01:21:18.479 can tell you that I almost drowned trying to save these instructors because what they 1044 01:21:18.479 --> 01:21:23.640 were trying to do is make you drowned. So if you didn't learn some 1045 01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:28.880 basic techniques, just basic life saving techniques, I don't have any cool ones. 1046 01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:31.000 You were going to drown and they were going to drown you, and 1047 01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:34.840 some of these guys, we're going to drown you no matter what. So 1048 01:21:35.520 --> 01:21:40.279 luckily I was not on the bad list, so none of them wanted to 1049 01:21:40.319 --> 01:21:44.520 kill me. Because I mean, in the water, everybody's even you know 1050 01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:47.760 what I mean. So you have to be you have to fight hard to 1051 01:21:48.720 --> 01:21:53.920 save an instructor. This, this is, this is I have a good 1052 01:21:53.960 --> 01:21:59.039 answer for that one. This is this one's pretty specific, you know. 1053 01:21:59.079 --> 01:22:05.720 The second question he's asking about the differences in how you know American special ops 1054 01:22:05.720 --> 01:22:12.359 in the United Kingdom special ops are organized and specialized. I don't know if 1055 01:22:12.359 --> 01:22:15.399 you ever worked with the Brits, do you notice any difference between like the 1056 01:22:15.439 --> 01:22:19.600 task organization and how they did business. Yeah, we worked with these British 1057 01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:24.640 British Special Boat Service, that was our counterpart, right, So the army 1058 01:22:24.640 --> 01:22:30.359 guys worked with the SAS mostly and we worked with the SPS. Yeah, 1059 01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:33.279 there's their system is way different than ours. They do most of their recruiting 1060 01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:38.960 from the Royal Marines. They go into the SPS. They have a selection 1061 01:22:39.119 --> 01:22:44.800 course similar to the Buds, just like the SAS does. But you know 1062 01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:48.199 they're all different. Yeah. The their system and how they're set up is 1063 01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:51.840 just totally different than ours. I don't not a I'm not an expert on 1064 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:57.640 them. But the SPS guys that I have worked with and continue to know 1065 01:22:57.760 --> 01:23:01.439 and be friends with there, you know, they're on par with us and 1066 01:23:01.600 --> 01:23:08.399 every step yep, uh, yeah, that's it. We didn't have more 1067 01:23:08.479 --> 01:23:13.279 questions come in here, Rick, has is there anything we've missed or failed 1068 01:23:13.279 --> 01:23:17.920 to cover that you'd like? No, just say, you know, any 1069 01:23:17.920 --> 01:23:20.520 of your listeners out there, if they're ever down here in Fort Pierce, 1070 01:23:20.560 --> 01:23:27.279 Florida, please come visit the National Navy Seal Museum. I think you'll you'll 1071 01:23:27.399 --> 01:23:30.560 like it. I know you will. You're gonna learn a lot, you're 1072 01:23:30.560 --> 01:23:34.279 gonna have fun. And we have an obstacle course. They're just like the 1073 01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:40.439 one that Buds in Cornado on a little froggy and you would run out. 1074 01:23:41.199 --> 01:23:44.800 I think the record is like two minutes and thirty seconds, which is phenomenally 1075 01:23:44.920 --> 01:23:48.880 fast. You know, come and do it, you'll have you'll have a 1076 01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:53.560 great time. So you know, you find yourself in Orlando and hit Disney 1077 01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:57.439 World, come on down to mu Seum. That's fantastic. And people can 1078 01:23:57.520 --> 01:24:01.560 I assume crashed on your couch with and UH when they come down, No, 1079 01:24:01.680 --> 01:24:05.319 they can see Brandon the compound of the museum. They're not sleeping at 1080 01:24:05.359 --> 01:24:10.840 my house. You can go to our website and that's you know, Navy 1081 01:24:10.840 --> 01:24:15.279 Seal Museum dot org. Uh learn all about us. Links are down in 1082 01:24:15.279 --> 01:24:17.560 the description for those of you who are watching on YouTube. And once again, 1083 01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:20.560 everybody, please check out his book. It's it's really great. It's 1084 01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:25.960 phenomenal, and it's you know, like I said, it's from a lot 1085 01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:29.319 of people. You get all the war stories and and really what you get 1086 01:24:29.319 --> 01:24:32.119 from Rick's book is just really all the leadership stories, all the you know, 1087 01:24:32.159 --> 01:24:36.359 all the human stories, uh, which which is really a fantastic sort 1088 01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:44.039 of view into the you know, into Rick's life into the military. Thank 1089 01:24:44.079 --> 01:24:46.840 you very much, guys, and UH for everyone out there, we will 1090 01:24:46.880 --> 01:24:51.640 be back this Friday with UH. We're gonna have retired be one bomber pilot 1091 01:24:51.680 --> 01:24:57.039 here in studio, so we're looking forward to that. We'll see all you 1092 01:24:57.119 --> 01:25:00.359 then, Rick, thank you so much. Thanks you, I appreciate it. 1093 01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:01.520 We'll see you and