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Report. Surprised find out more at UT Dallas dot edu. Well, Hello,
and welcome to the Texas Tribune and trip Cast. I'm Matthew Watkins,
Managing editor of News and Politics for the Tribune. It is May nineteenth,
twenty twenty three, and we are in the week that we saw our summer
plans start to crumble, or maybe our fall plans as the House scene to
as hopes seemed to kind of fade away that a school choice bill would pass
the House, and expectations seemed to grow that Governor Greg Abbott would find that
unacceptable and call a special session to get them to try again. Joining us
this week to discuss those developments are our k K through twelve reporter Brian Lopez,
Hey, Brian, you done? And politics reporter Patrick Spieta, Kay,
Patrick, either thanks for having me? Yeah, no, Paul,
I'm all right, So, Brian. The Senate passed its school choice bill
in April, sitting over a measure that included provisions from Florida's similar to Florida's
Don't so called Don't Say Gay Bill, and you know, maybe even more
headlining allowing parents to access education savings accounts that used eight thousand dollars in taxpayer
money per student to pay for homeschooling, private school tuition, or a few
other things similar to that. The bill sat in the House committee for over
a month, but the action really began to pick up last week. Can
you just kind of catch us up on what has happened since then and where
we are now with that bill. Yeah, So, you know that that
first kind of iteration of sent ability SBA was very universal and scope. You
know, virtually, you know, upboards of five million Texas kids and including
you know, the hundreds of thousand home schoolers that we have in the state
would be able to kind of access this pot up money to pay you know,
for private school or whatever other educational expenses would have been approved. And
that was really the proposal. I think that you know that Lieutenant Governor nan
Patrick and of course Governor Abbot was really behind this universal kind of voucher programs,
and you know, but the hurdle was always we kind of knew it
was always going to be in the House, which traditionally, historically has always
kind of been against um anything that you know is going to give a taxpayer
money to pri schools, whether you want to call it, you know,
a traditional voucher educational you know, program at tax credit anything you know.
UM. So basically I was going to be over the hurdle. So you
know, it took them a month to actually bring something to the House Education
Committee. UM. And you know it once we saw what that was,
it was a completely revamped bill from what create an originally you know passed in
the Senate. Um. Uh. It included things like getting rid of the
star It included things like, you know, uh, taking away certain graduation
requirements for high schoolers. UM. And you know, it was really an
effort to try this way those House members, you know, especially you know,
those kind of Democrats and rural publicans who also have kind of been opposed
to the star test, you know, and and the stars highly debated kind
of UM topic in the House Committee every session. So you know, it
was really a way for you know, Buckley, the chair Buckley, uh,
to kind of see where he can gather some votes. Um, you
know, and that one it kind of tailored, tailed back a little bit
the eligibility to uh so it wouldn't be as universal I think, you know,
still most of Texas students would be eligible for this one, um,
you know, would be economically disadvantaged students mainly and those that you know have
a disability and attended to hear at F campus. And you know, he
quickly found out that that was not gonna also gathering of votes, and so
he cobbled up something even another iteration of this bill, which was way more
restrictive and eligibility. It would only apply to those students with disabilities and those
that attended an F campus really and siblings and and and so it was really
a really scaled back approach now with those star exams and things like that.
But then you know, I don't know, we don't really know what Buckley
thought this was going to be the one to get those votes. But then
you know, Abbott really just throw blew up his whole plan by you know,
uh this past weekend on Sunday saying you know this, he's going to
veto this bill. And then you know how that's when you have you know,
a Chair Buckley telling us, you know, having doubts that he doesn't
even think that he should bring this up in committ anymore because of that threat.
So that's where we stand right now. It's you know, tomorrow is
the deadline, and right now we haven't heard of any plans for the Education
Committee in the House to even meet again, So that begs you know the
question here too, you know, hearing from other lawmakers in the House that
you know, they think that they're going to be back in the fall because
you know, nothing got passed on school choice this session. So it's kind
of like a quick wrap up of where we at. And you know it
also you know, as we mentioned, we'll see how negotiations take place too
in the last kind of week. You know, we don't we know that
nothing is ever really dead, you know, until lawmakers kind of leave town.
So we'll see if anything kind of changes, but you know, it's
still the House remains that biggest kind of hurdle there. And we'll also see,
you know, with other school bills at the House wants to pass right
you know, they have a big funding bill that's in the Senate that's been
stuck in committee. So that's another you know, bill to kind of watch
out for and see if you know, that's included in negotiations with school choice.
So we'll see what the next kind of ten days holds for us.
Yeah, yeah, you know. Um Brad Buckley, the representative who chairs
the Public Education Committee, as you mentioned, has it seemed to really be
in sort of in between a rock and a hard place, right, So
he brought in that slightly toned down version as you mentioned, the where the
people eligibile for the vouchers of the education Savings account depending on you know,
your political leanings, what you call it being as you said, economically disadvantaged
or students in schools that are graded a d r F on the accountability scale.
That was a pretty large amount of students though, right, because sixty
percent of students in Texas are economically disadvantaged, a smaller number of course attending
those DNF schools. There was also I think a provision for school choice,
but the House sent I think, you know, maybe not a crystal clear
message, but a message that they didn't like that bill when they essentially voted
to deny the Public Education Committee the ability to meet to vote out that bill
on kind of a last minute meeting. They didn't necessarily state their reason for
doing so as saying, you know, we don't support this bill. They
said it was kind of moving a little bit too quickly, but you know,
I think still sort of a message there, so it tries to tone
it down significantly. We all kind of see that as an attempt to get
something that actually could get through the House. And then Abbott comes out,
you know, before it's even brought up in committee, comes out and says
that held veto that bill. Patrick, I mean, that was a pretty
big move by Abbott. I don't recall him ever coming out and basically saying
he'll call a special session like this before the session has even ended. I
am I missing an example. Yeah, I think it was unprecedented in two
ways for Abbot. I don't recall a previous time where he has publicly issued
a veto threat at the height of negotiations like this. I guess maybe you
could dispute whether at the height of negotiations, but you know, but you
know, in the in the heat of the moment like this. And then
number two, Yeah, I don't recall you know, a time previously where
he's threatened a special session so publicly and openly while the regular session is still
under way. I think in the past, you know, there's certainly been
speculation that he's looking toward a special session privately behind the scenes, but for
him to just come out and say it as governor, you know, at
this point, at this late stage in a regular session, I also think
of unprecedent, didn't have to check all of our clips and everything. So
yeah, it was a very very remarkable statement by Habit. Yeah, I
mean, and Brian, it kind of seems as though Buckley has sort of
thrown his arms up into the air at this point point, right, I
mean, he didn't tell you specifically that he's he's giving up on the bill,
but we have not seen anything publicly to indicate that, you know,
before the deadline to vote bills out of committee, which is Saturday tomorrow the
twentieth, that he's really throwing out any other proposals, right, I mean,
anything can happened in the ledge, but it's certainly not looking good.
Yeah, totally. No, I mean, it gives you, I think
the fact that you know, it's not like he can bring up Freighton's original
universal kind of bill and try to get past that, because that's just not
even the most scale down version with these provisions of getting rid of the Star,
which a lot of people want to get rid of on the Education Committee,
like a lot of people of it, and they're still saying no.
I think that for him, it must be one of those things where it's
like, yeah, like what else can I do to push this through?
And you know, we people thought that, yeah, if you do it
just for a certain population and started out small, then you know that will
have a bigger chance. But I think you know, people that are against
the against this bill, rural Republicans and Democrats really you know, pointed at
other states that said, you know, all these states started small, but
now they're spending you know, hundreds of millions, billions of dollars on this
program. Uh, you know, because it just keeps expanding. So I
think, you know, you're right, he hasn't come out and said,
you know, this is dead or this isn't gonna work. But I think
the fact that he has on plans of bringing it up you know committee,
and like you said, anything could change, and already this very scaled version
of this bill with a lot of provisions that most people would like. On
testing, um, you know, on standardized testing isn't going to I think
it gives us a kind of a clear picture of where school choices the session.
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trip caest listeners. Before we continue with this conversation, I want to let
you know that we'll be having a live recording of the trip cast at our
studio nine one nine headquarters on May thirtieth at ten am. That's the day
after the legislature wraps up. Signy dye, and we'll be talking about the
session and what happened and what will happen next. If you want to attend,
and we'd love to have you, visit Texas Tribune dot org slash events.
A lot is going to happen between then and now, and let's talk
a little bit about some of those things that can happen. Patrick. I
mean, one thing, when this was when we were talking about school choice
back in March, back in February, we knew this was a big priority
of Abbot, but there was a lot of skepticism. I expressed a lot
of skepticism on this show about you know, we've heard from the House on
this issue. What makes us think anything is going to change. We've now
gone through all these different negotiations, all this push by Abbot, and at
the end of the session there still does not seem to be any support in
the House for this measure. I mean, what is what is a special
session going to do? What moves are still left for the supporters of this
bill to get it through even if it's not, you know, before May
twenty nine. Yeah, that's a great question with a special session, is
you know what change anytime you call special session on a proposal that feels during
a regular session, and it's it's you know what, what can you change
in the in the calculus, the boatmath, or the legislative strategy between the
regular session and the special session? And I'm really drawing a blank trying to
think about, um, you know, what what could change between um now
in a special session, whether that special session is immediately, in the medium
term, in the long term, It's really hard to think, um,
what exactly could change? UM. You know. One thing that could change,
but I don't think will necessarily contribute to the chances of success, is
that right now, I mean, we are ending this regular session with so
many active priority issues still on the table. It is a very cluttered,
uh, you know, very crowded space right now. The priority bills are
all you know, still really up in the air at the going into the
final week, the final full week of this regular session. And so I
mean, you still have very hot debates under way about property taxes, about
the power grid, about a host of you know, social conservative issues.
So, you know, the one thing that could change is that there could
be a singular focus in a special session on school choice, as Abbott calls
it. But I don't I don't know a singular focus on school choice necessarily
increases the chances of it passing, if it actually increases the chances of it
passing, because it gives everyone, you know, more time and space to
focus on fighting forward. Or fighting against it. So it's it's a really
big open question right now, what could change in a special session. Yeah.
One thing that I think we should keep in mind as we you know,
await the possibility of a special session announcement is look back at history,
right and what Abbott did last session when you know, the Democrats broke quorum
in order to block a voting bill from going into place. This was you
know, something that the Republicans were united in favor of. So it was
a little bit different. But he didn't just call a special session and say
come back and post that voting bill, past that voting bill. He vetoed
the legislatures funding and um, you know said I, you know, I
won't do it. I won't you know, approve you basically have to come
back in order to you know, preserve get your preserve your budget and have
money to continue to function. And so I wonder one thing to watch is
will he have any kind of tricks up his sleeves to try to give himself
more more leverage through that you know line adam veto that he has in the
budget or his other veto powers as well, you know, can Yeah,
I mean I was going to say, I mean, he has a proven
record of trying of using the power of his office very aggressively. Um,
you know, whether it's the way in which he stretched his veto authority,
um, you know, like you said, vetoing the you know, the
funding for the legislature. So I mean, if i'm lawmakers, that's what
I'm watching for next. I'm not necessarily watching for any new legislatives, you
know, like any new kind of way to reconfigure the votes in the House.
I'm watching for a sweeping executive Um, you know, power play by
Abbot, because we know he's done that before. I mean, that's been
a through line of his entire governorship, is how he's tried to capitalize and
maximize his executive powers, so that that could be the next shoe to drop.
Where that's likely the next shoe to drop my opinion, Yeah, I
mean the other possibility here is also just the closer you get to twenty twenty
four, the closer you get to the primaries, is there are there any
of these opponents of school choice, um, you know from the Republican side
who might see you know, opponents popping up or you know, money backing
opponents that could pop cause them to change their mind you know. Yeah,
the problem there is that I think so many of these world Republicans who you
know, who have been standing in the way of this and a way of
Abbots what Abbot wants on this, they've been through competitive primaries before, they've
survived them, and they may not like them, you know, They you
know, may have been tough, they may have spent a lot of money,
work harder than they expected to, but they've already kind of been through
the political fire on this. Of course, you know, it could be
different if you are you know, Appot's endorsing your opponent and spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars against you in a primary. But the you know a lot
of these rural Republicans are pretty confident in their political standing back home because they've
just they've been through this debate so many times. Yeah, Brian, how
how dug in do the Republican opponents to this bill seem to you? I
mean, I think, you know, going off of Patrick's you know assessment,
it's kind of the same thing. It's I think it's it's kind of
a no, nothing would really change their minds or no negotiation will change their
minds that this is the way to go. And going off of you know,
rural Republicans, I mean, the people that live there don't want really
aren't in support of this issue too. So it it makes that question too,
you know, I think not only through they don't like get there are
people that they were present also don't have an interest of this being have a
negotiation in this or having seen this pass. So I think, you know,
this coalition that's kind of formed in the past, you know, decades
in the House of you know, both Republicans and Democrats, you know,
kind of standing tall on this issue. I think it's still going pretty strong.
Even though some of these kind of the budget amendment votes showed that there
was a little bit more support on you know, this issue, I think
there still isn't enough there and I still think, you know, they are
laser focused that this thing is not going to pass. Right Patrick, what
else has your iami's final you know, ten days of the legislative session.
Where do you think the key points of tension are the uncertainty things like that.
Yeah, property taxes remains a big debate. You know, we saw
the House pass the latest version of its property tax plan. You know,
this week, this weeks or recording this, you know, and that seemed
to be a dare to the Senate to say no because it included their priority
provision, which is appraisal caps. But it also included a homestead exemption that
the Senate has prioritized, but went even bigger than the Senate and had one
hundred thousand dollars homestead exemption. So we'll see where that goes. You know,
As I think I've said, and we've maybe we've agreed on this podcast
throughout the session, it's you know, even though the property tax debate has
attracted so much conflict and tension between the two chambers, it's really hard to
think of them not getting something agreed to on that in the regular session,
given that there is just so much unanimity in the legislature that that is a
top issue for the bipartisan unanimity an agreement that that's something that needs to get
done this regular session. So I think that's going to continue be a big
issue. May not be you know, the toughest issue, the toughest issue
you know in terms of gridlock in these final days, but certainly wanted to
watch power grid you know, I've would defer to our beat reporter on that
because I've I've lost the plot on some of those muzzles a little bit.
But from what I can see, you know, there is some movement to
come together on that, but still a lot of uncertainty, you know.
And then we talked about school choice. We'll see, if you know.
I think we never say anything's dead for good, but I do think school
choice, as as Avid imagines, it is pretty dead at this point,
and that's going to likely be a special session at this point, you know,
And there's still you know, it's a number of outstanding issues that I
would kind of put in the second tier of priority issues. Obviously a big
priority of the speaker date feeling is an overhauled version of this corporate tax break
program that was previously known as Chapter three thirteen that is kind of, you
know, arduously winding its way through the process in these final days. The
Lieutenant Governor has openly said, you know, has openly suggested that he is
maybe okay with that program only if the House is more amenable to his good
proposals. So we have the Lieutenant Governor on the record suggesting those could be
two issues that are kind of go hand in hand at the end of session
here. So those are some of the issues that I'm watching in the final
days. Yeah, you know, I would add to that list the university
tenure and and d EI questions in the House. I think like that is
an interesting one. You know, the attempts to get rid of tenure reached
the House floor yesterday, although the bill that would get rid of tenure it
had been kind of changed in the House and hit a point of order which
Democrats used to postpone the vote. So it'll be interesting to watch those things
as well. What's your give me a temperature check on Dave Feeling and Dan
Patrick right now? How do we feel about their relationship and their ability to
negotiate through some of these, you know, issues they might be united on
wanting to take action on, but maybe you know, at least publicly,
are fighting about the ways to do it. Yeah, I think their relationship
is is still poor. Um, I don't think, you know, much
as much has changed this session. Maybe it's it's gotten worse as others have
reported. And you know, we've confirmed at the Tribune the big three,
the governor, Lieutenant governor, and the Speaker you know, they have not
had their traditional weekly breakfast at all this session. Looking at Abbot's public schedule,
he's opted for just one on one meetings individually with Feeling and Patrick,
and at least up until May first, which is later schedule. I saw,
you know, those meetings weren't really happening that often, and so um,
you know, so I think the relations among the Big three are still
pretty uh, you know, still pretty fraught, and I would honestly say
it's it's not necessarily uh, you know, tensions just between Feeling and Patrick,
those are very well documented. But I think Abbott, you know,
you see tensions emerging between Abbott and Feeling over the lack of progress in the
house UM, vouchers um. And then you know, Abbott and Patrick.
M know, if the relationships is as tense as it may just be a
little more distant than previously. So we'll see how it all. You know,
how that you know, lack of relationship manifests itself in these final days.
Yeah, you know, it feels a it's a far cry from twenty
nineteen, when you know, the Big three we're holding joint press conferences over
and over again on issues around you know, school finance, property taxes,
and things like that. I don't think we've seen the three of them together
publicly at all of this session. Unless I'm missing something, it will be
good now, I was gonna say no. I mean, you know,
at the end of the session, you know, the Big Three do tend
to individually kind of hunker down, focus on their priorities. They're not necessarily
out there having a lot of events together. But even earlier in the session,
we weren't seeing a lot of joint appearances or even you know, we've
seen joint statements in the past from the Big Three when they've wanted to try
to send a united front on some you know, aspect of legislative negotiations.
We haven't seen that this session. So you know, the unified front,
if there is one, has been pretty under the radar of this session.
All right, Well, lots to watch in the next week and a half.
Thank you Patrick, Thank you Brian, Thank you to our producer Justin,
and thank you to our sponsors bp UT, Dallas, Educate Texas and
the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center. We'll talk to y'all next week.
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