WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.719 You were in the place where mysteries and the missing meet. We're conspiracies lurk 2 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:18.000 around every corner. Welcome to the deep dark Truth. Welcome back to the 3 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:22.079 deep dark Truth. I'm Mo, I'm Chip, and I'm Mikey, and 4 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:27.239 today we are doing part two of Internet Rabbit Holes. We've fallen down all 5 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:31.120 right, Chip, why don't you start us off? One? This one 6 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.439 I found out about through a trivia game I was playing with some friends. 7 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:40.799 The question was what weird thing was found in this coffin of this seventeenth century 8 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:47.039 bishop and the answer was a baby. So I had to look it up 9 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:52.039 because I was hoping for secret trans but it spoilers. It is non secret 10 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:57.880 trans. So this guy, Bishop Peter Win strips Borne sixteen oh five died 11 00:00:58.119 --> 00:01:04.200 sixteen seventy nine was the bishop of Lund in southern Sweden. In twenty fifteen, 12 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:11.239 his body was going to be moved from the crypt in the Lund Cathedral 13 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:15.519 over to like the north tower. So hey, we're moving on, old 14 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.599 body. Let's X ray the thing and get to look at it, because 15 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:23.680 anthropology is fun. So they x ray the box and when they look at 16 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:29.719 it, well, first his body is weirdly well preserved, Like he wasn't 17 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:36.120 embombed or mummified or anything like that, but he's really well preserved some places 18 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.879 where like you could you thought it was just a regular guy sleeping, which 19 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:42.359 no, or if I do think this guy is just sleeping, I'm very 20 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:48.799 concerned for his health. But he's like he's got skin. Interesting what they 21 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:53.239 think would happened is that a combination of the climate being super cold and super 22 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:59.480 dry, and the plants he was like buried with a lot of them had 23 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:05.840 like preservative and antiseptic and insect repelling properties, so he was just buried with 24 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:12.360 enough flowers that he was really well preserved. That's interesting. You would think 25 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.919 that it would do the opposite because plants give off oxygen, and oxygen decays. 26 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.759 I was thinking that it was just sealed off completely with no oxygen, 27 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.919 so there was no room for a decay. Like you know, you can 28 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:29.120 like I didn't realize this, but that you can inject like sent molecules into 29 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:31.759 a vacuum or into his space and will kick the oxygen out, I would 30 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:37.319 say so and basically make it a no oxygen environment. It saw it not 31 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.919 a cooking sket like cooking thing when you smoke food like in a bag. 32 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:46.599 You can smoke it and smoke the bag and it displaces the oxygen out of 33 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:51.360 the bag, so the food will stay fresher longer. Like, that's interesting, 34 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:54.800 that's weird. What if my hang ups with being buried even though it 35 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:59.840 shouldn't matter, is that I note that insects are going to eat me. 36 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.280 Yeah, that's your objection, I think. So. I didn't grow up 37 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:07.680 in a house where I didn't even know that cremation existed until I was like 38 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.879 eleven. There was some new story when I was a teenager that it was 39 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:14.879 basically like, oh, they want to go cremator and she was alive, 40 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:19.919 still shed pulse, and so I was like, I don't know, cremation 41 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.560 freaks me out, but being eaten by bugs. Also, if you're dead, 42 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:25.759 even though I know, do you need a grave blanket? Are you 43 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:30.599 cold? Are you cold? You need a grave blanket? Listen? Yes, 44 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:36.560 you better buy me one, But I want a comforter. I want 45 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.560 a grave comfort, so listen. If anybody else said this to me, 46 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:46.159 I'd be like, you're dead. Like when people are like but like they 47 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.120 get into their religious quandary and I'm like, who cares? You're dead. 48 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.280 That's what I say to them. But I don't know. Man, something 49 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:54.680 about it freaks me out. So I just want to be buried with all 50 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.560 these plants. I want to know exactly what plants he was buried with. 51 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.960 Make sure that I'm married with those. Well, don't be buried in Michigan 52 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.439 because it has to be dry. Maybe it was the baby that did the 53 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.280 trick. Yeah, it was the magic baby. Oh yeah, the baby 54 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:13.319 was the whole all right, back to the thing. Yeah, yeah, 55 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:16.199 that was the important part I forgot. Sorry, I got real hyper focused. 56 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:24.120 So it's it was a stillborn fetus. Male DNA on analysis shows that 57 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:30.079 it was a twenty five percent So the combo it could be an uncle nephew 58 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:35.199 relationship, half siblings, double cousin, which is when you have twins marrying 59 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:44.959 twins, or grandchild grandparent. Probably probably grand grandparent child right, assuming his 60 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:48.319 age because he lived to be seventy four, so I would assume that it 61 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.000 was probably a grandchild, and they probably died around the same time, so 62 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:57.759 they just buried them together exactly. So I'm assuming there was some type of 63 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:01.600 accidents that caused them both to be dead. Oh no, he died of 64 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.720 stillborn. Right, Yeah, it was a stillborn. Yeah, it's a 65 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:11.959 fetus leave on costs. Yeah, spoilers, that's what it was. Yeah. 66 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.920 So they go through and he had a brother who died childless. Um, 67 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:19.959 he has a sister who could have had a kid. But the DNA 68 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.319 analysis is like there's something specific that was not like super rare, but rare 69 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:30.800 enough on the Y chromosome that would be kind of a quite a coincidence if 70 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:38.920 the you know, the not related to him man breathing with his sister had 71 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:45.160 that same shegnetic trait. And he had one son who survived to adulthood, 72 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:50.759 and so we think it's probably the stillborn of that. So his grandson and 73 00:05:50.839 --> 00:06:01.680 it wasn't that in this economy put him together. So yeah, that was 74 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:09.800 it. Interesting fun fact that I just found silly. So his father was 75 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:13.560 also a bishop, and when his father, the bishop, died, his 76 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:20.160 mother married the bishop who replaced him. Interesting, just chugging through those bishops. 77 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:25.800 She must have been really good running the ladies club at the church or 78 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.759 whatever the fuck. Yeah, she's really good at running the ladies club at 79 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:33.199 church. Yeah, bishop is what she was really good at it. I 80 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:39.279 was just gonna say, you can't see us, but Mikey is making a 81 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:45.079 vulgar jesture with his hand. There's a reason where a podcast and nuts, 82 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:50.319 Oh Bishop, is that a cardinal point that I see? Oh no, 83 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:57.800 why aren't we a visual media? I take it back, Yeah, facts, 84 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.879 we should record these, delete most of them, but didn't put little 85 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:06.240 ones on the Patreon. It's like the Bloopers, but just and then you 86 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:12.480 can put ten video snippets of me side by side and how high I am 87 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:16.480 and his eyes are barely That's why we're not a visual media. And then 88 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.560 like it's a one he just had a light day in I'm all like Chipper, 89 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:28.160 the next rabbit hole that I have fallen down the Alagash aliens, So 90 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.759 in addition to the Phoenix lights, this was one of my first exposures to 91 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:39.000 aliens. But it was kind of with the vagueness way surpassing the Phoenix lights, 92 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:44.319 more along the lines of Chip's murder Throne from beyond belief factor affection of 93 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:47.680 the Chonathan fracts. It was like I saw it, I had a vague 94 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:53.360 recollection of it, and then years later saw it on the Internet and said, 95 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.279 oh my gosh, that's the thing and fell down the raal. Shit, 96 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.720 fuck not Russell Crowe. Who do I mean? Oh? Now, 97 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.240 now you fucked me up because I could picture him in my head and he's 98 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:09.319 literally Goldie Hawn's husband, and it's just Kurt Russell, not so basically a 99 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.160 Kurt Russell, exactly like Kurt Russell. You might say, me and Kurt 100 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:18.000 Russell, I have so much in common. So in August of nineteen seventy 101 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:24.439 six, four friends, Chuck Rack, Charlie Faults, and twins Jim and 102 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:30.759 Jack Winer went camping for two weeks in the Alagash Wilderness. The Alagash Wilderness 103 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:35.399 is a ninety two square mile area of Maine that is home to the Alagash 104 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.480 Wilderness Waterway, which is a popular setting for canoeing and fishing. So all 105 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:46.879 four of them were classmates attending the Massachusetts College of Art and Design and they 106 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:50.960 decided to go on a trip together. On the second night of their trip, 107 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.000 the group of young men saw an unidentified flying object in the sky. 108 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.039 It was a ball of light that appeared and when they got curious, they 109 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.080 got out there a binocul. They observed it for fifteen to thirty seconds before 110 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:07.600 it seemed to collapse in on itself, and while the incident seemed strange, 111 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.879 they hadn't been able to observe it for very long, and they quickly shrugged 112 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.399 off the incident. On the fourth day of their trip, while on a 113 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:22.519 nighttime fishing expedition on Big Eagle Lake, the mysterious object appeared again, Only 114 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:26.440 this time the light endured, and the group felt as if they were being 115 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:33.519 examined or watched that creepy hair on the back of your neck feeling. They 116 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.000 watched it as it began coming in their direction, and all of them, 117 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:41.840 unsettled, started making their way back to their campsite in their canoe, but 118 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.720 it was still moving towards them, and it was moving way faster than they 119 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:52.879 themselves. Capattle but somehow, though they could not recall exactly the details of 120 00:09:52.879 --> 00:10:00.080 how the men found themselves back on the shore and the object absent when they 121 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:03.159 left their campsite, they had added plenty of wood to their camp fire so 122 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:05.840 that they wouldn't have to attempt to relight it again in the dark. It 123 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:11.240 could also help guide them back to their very specific campsite in the event that 124 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.480 they got turned God, that's a fire hazard. We don't all live in 125 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:28.039 states that just laid down smoking the bear. Only you can. But it 126 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.000 is a very different like growing up here is very different than down there. 127 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:35.840 Like down here, once it starts going it coals, it's like, okay, 128 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:39.879 we're gonna let the fire burn down. Also, uh, they were 129 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.399 only away from their campsite for less than twenty minutes, and their campsite was 130 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.200 on the water, so like they could see if all of a sudden the 131 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:52.639 trees started catch on the water. But like, so what you're saying is 132 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:58.639 we haven't made contact with intelligence because the first person that they scanned was Jack 133 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:07.320 Winer, and who likes to start forest That's that's yeah, that's what I'm 134 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:11.480 saying. Okay, So when they arrived back at camp, the men estimated 135 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:15.600 that it had been like twenty minutes, but the fire had burned down completely. 136 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.120 There was only a few embers left. Okay, but like they had 137 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.039 it in their sight the whole time, is what you were saying. And 138 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.120 then yes, so their campsite was on the water, but they got in 139 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:30.919 their canoe and they went out in the middle of this well not the middle 140 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.799 of this lake because it's a large lake. But they started paddling out to 141 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.879 go fishing. So the ideas they're just going a little while in the water, 142 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.679 they're going to start night fishing, and then this event happens. They 143 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:46.480 start paddling back to get back and all of a sudden exactly and then all 144 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.960 of a sudden, their fire has burnt out. Their logs are gone. 145 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.559 But they estimate that it's you say logs are gone, You you just mean 146 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:58.039 they burned down, Not like our logs are missing. The fire has been 147 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:03.399 stolen. No, but like maybe somebody stole their fire. I don't know 148 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:07.960 what if you're like, I don't have any wood. Oh, that one's 149 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.720 on fire. Fuck these people, they're about to burn down this whole for 150 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.519 us. Get them Chip and you're just like, all right with your fucking 151 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.039 firestick of death. You're camping firestick of death. So here's a quote from 152 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.000 the original Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack. They did a coverage of this case 153 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.799 in like season and seven and the nineties. Quote. The unusual thing is 154 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.000 that we didn't stay up for hours and discuss this thing, which you would 155 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:41.080 think four young guys on a camping trip would do. We just seemed very 156 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.360 fatigued and wanted to go to bed. The next morning, we got up 157 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:50.360 and got our camp together and paddled to the next campsite. And that is 158 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.159 a quote from Jack Winer, or as Mikey says, Jack Wiener, We'll 159 00:12:54.240 --> 00:13:03.080 never know. I feel like we can. We can know, but I 160 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.600 refused. So. According to Rack, they reported the incident to a ranger, 161 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.840 and that ranger said that they believed the lights to be part of the 162 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.480 grand opening of a nearby hardware store. There was no other incidents during this 163 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:22.360 trip, and aside from some ribbing from their friends and family that they later 164 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.120 shared the story with, that was it. That was it for twelve years 165 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:33.360 anyway. So years later, the twins both start having nightmares, and the 166 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:37.879 focus of those nightmares all seemed to center on this trip they had taken with 167 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:43.960 their friends a decade prior. Another quote from Unsolved Mysteries quote, I was 168 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.399 starting to have nightmares, really terrible nightmares that I could not explain. I 169 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:52.200 found myself in a brightly lit room. I had no idea where I was 170 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.600 or why I was there. To my left, I could see my brother 171 00:13:56.679 --> 00:14:00.519 Jim, Chuck Rack, and Charlie Fult sitting on some type of bench, 172 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.240 and they were all naked. I was wondering why they weren't helping me, 173 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.000 because I felt like I was in danger. And while I'm trying to figure 174 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:11.480 this out, I noticed this figure or a dark shadowy type figure emerging from 175 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.919 this light, this bright light in front of me. I would wake up, 176 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:22.840 sweating and breathing and just in a state of terror and shock. So 177 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:28.039 wanting answers, Jim Winer reached out to a ufologist named Ray Fowler, and 178 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.120 he suggested that all four friends undergo hypnosis in an attempt to get to the 179 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:37.440 bottom of the root cause of the nightmares, as well as to try and 180 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.799 account for the missing time that these men seemed to experience. And all of 181 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.039 them agreed, whether due to curiosity and Rack and Folks case, or simply 182 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.919 to hope that the nightmares would end. In the Twins case, all four 183 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:54.360 of the men underwent their own hypnosis, completely separate from each other, but 184 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.519 most of their stories were similar. They recollected being abducted and made to give 185 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:05.039 sample of blood, semen, urine, and skin, and even in some 186 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:11.200 cases drawing out those recollections. I say most because years later, in twenty 187 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:16.000 sixteen, Rax said that he didn't recall anything during his session in regards to 188 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.919 the missing time, and that he went along with the others recollections because he 189 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.279 thought he would be able to make money. Thank you, sir for approving 190 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.879 everything I need to say. He did, however, say that he was 191 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.840 witnessed to the two original UFO sidings the same as the other three, which 192 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.320 is kind of important, just in my opinion, because all four of them 193 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:41.200 took polygraphs, and all four of them passed the polygraph tests. You know 194 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:45.679 how we feel about polygraph tests, he here now, right, You know 195 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.799 how we feel the polygraphs aren't reliable, do not take them. Also know 196 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.519 that not taking them will make you look guilty. So if you do have 197 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:58.039 to take one, get one from an independent third party. My spiel all 198 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:04.279 day. However, in terms of they're not complete, are error? However, 199 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:10.279 in terms of error, failing a polygraph is much more common than passing 200 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:15.679 a polygraph, so like in terms of accidental and four people passing is kind 201 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:22.480 of wild. But I have tried to find exactly what questions were asked, 202 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.639 and I have not been able to find exactly what questions are asked. But 203 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.840 that's the thing that made me reinterested in him, Like, what the hell 204 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:36.240 do you mean that they were abducted and took polygraphs and then they all pass 205 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:41.600 polygraphs. Four people passing polygraphs is back hip bananas in Also, it just 206 00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:45.559 means they believe something. And also the one guy doesn't even believe it any 207 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:49.759 best, he does believe that about the other two UFO sightings, he just 208 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:57.080 said that in his hypnosis he didn't uncover any unlocked memories him specifically, and 209 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.600 that he went along with it because he thought that he'd get money, specifically 210 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:10.759 because everybody passed their polygraphs and that the other ones did recollect things with his 211 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:15.240 hypnotherapist or whatever. But I just want to know exactly the questions. Yeah, 212 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.599 Internet, I need you to send those to us so that we can 213 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.279 assess. Is it called a uphologist yes? And is it called a hypnotherapist? 214 00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:26.680 Okay, So Rax says he went along with it. He also claims 215 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:32.279 that he believes that Jim's nightmares had started because at some point Jim had fallen 216 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:40.799 and had suffered seizures. So he thinks that after suffering this fall that he 217 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.160 was having visions of these humanoid beings levitating a bed above his bed, poking 218 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:51.119 him with needles from these seizures that he was having, that that's why he 219 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:52.160 was having the visuals. Well, I was gonna say, you know, 220 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.279 it doesn't sound like classical night terrors. But have we talked to a doctor? 221 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.440 Well, I think that he They went, They jumped right to us, 222 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.680 and then they went to an hypnotherapist, which is not the same as 223 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:10.319 a regular therapist. You need to see a regular therapist before you discuss hypnotherapy. 224 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.759 If you are not in a place to be hypnotized and unlock some traumatic 225 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:21.880 shit, you should not be doing that because that can cause a deeper psychosis. 226 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.920 It's not good. It's not good stuff. Rac also said that they 227 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.799 were stoned on hash the night of the abduction as a disclaimer, you know, 228 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:38.480 but hash only inducing hallucinations, but also inducing the same hallucination unlikely. 229 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:44.000 On the flip side of that, the other three deny that Hash was involved 230 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:48.039 at all, that they had only brought a specific beer. I think they 231 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.680 were like, we bought brought three packs in migeloge Ultra. It was really 232 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:55.440 weird. Faults basically said that RAC is trying to get some sort of payback 233 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:02.319 because rac has been banned from some UFO conventions. This literally, I was 234 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:07.640 like, oh my god, convention drama. So he says. He says 235 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:14.680 that Rack was banned from UFO conventions for poor behavior, and because of that 236 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:18.759 poor behavior, the other three cut him loose and cut him out of the 237 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.799 friend group. Quote. We definitely steer clear of him because that guy is 238 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:30.039 a loose cannon and a mental disaster fault, said one of the twins that 239 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:34.279 he was accusing of seizures. He said, Jim Weiner, quote, I 240 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:42.599 personally believe that mister Racks self aggrandizing rationalizations and disparaging accusations are simply the rantings 241 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:48.799 of an angry and resentful individual on whom his former friends have turned their backs. 242 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:55.720 Mike Drop Jim Winer, I could just as easily say that they're they're 243 00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:00.400 saying that because he's calling them out because they're doing the bullshit. That's fair. 244 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.680 But he admits to seeing he didn't walk it all the way back. 245 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:11.000 He just said I didn't uncover anything with the hypno therapist. But he admits 246 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.799 that they saw a hypno therapist, and he admits that he does believe in 247 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.799 the very first two UFO sightings, so like you're not really getting them bad. 248 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:22.599 You would be like, oh, we made it all up for attention 249 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.920 if you were trying to get back at them in that way, right, 250 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:33.400 But I think that he's either one he doesn't want to be perceived as a 251 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.960 liar, which he's admitting to at least lying about one thing. So I 252 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.799 don't know why that's not the right strategy. So I'm moving on from that 253 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:45.000 one. So weird. But can you imagine, like, just as part 254 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.960 of the former convention drown the circuit, I can see me and Chip have 255 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:53.200 personally dropped people for a bad behavior. Yeah, it's not unreasonable. Don't 256 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.799 think I'm kind of get out entirely. I also have a friend too who 257 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:04.119 was high up and organizing Yukon and tells me horror stories too. It's convention 258 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:12.200 dramas and their behavior. Why is there a con culture con micro celebrity. 259 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:22.160 Micro celebrity is so common in convention spaces, and anyone can become a micro 260 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:26.039 celebrity. It is the weirdest fandom, famous fandom famous. It is the 261 00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:33.119 weirdest culture unto itself. And every fandom has its own culture, and every 262 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.960 convention has its own culture, it's weird. So as soon as they were 263 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:41.680 like, no he was. He was wild and out at some conventions, 264 00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.640 so much so that he got banned. And as somebody that has worked at 265 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:51.119 said conventions, I'm like, what did you do to get banned? Nothing 266 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:55.039 good? They had banned in a gas that got abducted by aliens at an 267 00:21:55.079 --> 00:22:00.680 alien conference, unless you done fucked up that statistically speaker like, no, 268 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.640 no, no, he's mad that we didn't stand by him because he was 269 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:11.599 wild and out and that's it. Like, that's it. So either way 270 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:18.599 you slice it, amazing, amazing drama. I left every second of it 271 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:23.599 and going over it as an adult with hindsight, the convention drama just really 272 00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:29.559 brought it to a whole other level. But the polygraphs is what drew me 273 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.200 in, especially like just all four of them. I want to know exactly 274 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.119 what question I want that too, and how were they worded, how strictly 275 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:44.559 were they strictly graph graded? How do we not have that information? I 276 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:48.400 don't know, because of how do you get to claim that all four polygraph 277 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:55.359 tests were passed? But then not when you start following citations, Eventually people 278 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.079 stopped citing shit. I mean what I haven't learned from research for the show. 279 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:03.279 Well, that's I think what it is is because I'm sure that there 280 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.000 are citations that exist somewhere, but they're just lost to the time of modern 281 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:11.680 Internet. Because this happened in the seventies. It was a decade later before 282 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.440 the nightmare started. I thought it was in the nineties. Wait, no, 283 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.880 that was the unsolved episode. Shit, So the unsolved episode is what 284 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:25.319 was in the nineties, but the actual incident happened in nineteen seventy six. 285 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.799 So it happened in nineteen seventy six. A decade later is like when these 286 00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.519 nightmares are to a breaking point for the twins. So now we're in nineteen 287 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:38.319 eighty six. They then start doing the hypnotherapy blah blah Blah's a couple of 288 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:45.640 years in the nineties, it gets a surgence of popularity because Unsolved Mysteries covers 289 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:48.799 it. They end up going on like Sally Jesse Raphael and people were so 290 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:56.480 intrigued by it. And that's where the kind of line of secession. I 291 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.799 guess you would say it gets lost as to who performed the polygraph test, 292 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:06.720 like did Sally Jesse Raphael? Did they? Because that's different. If you 293 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:11.079 tell me, If you tell me, Jerry Springer says that they passed the 294 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:15.960 polygraph test, all four of them. Suddenly I'm like, no one passed 295 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:22.359 the polygraph test versus some third party institution that some news organization paid for. 296 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:27.599 They took the test and they passed it. Verry Springer very different. Yeah, 297 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:33.960 absolutely, Like I don't trust an eternity test. I don't trust anything. 298 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.640 We don't know. If you're the father, I have the test, 299 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.359 you are the alien. Yeah, if it's on when you're home from school 300 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:48.920 sick, I don't. That's a reliable source of Days of Our Lives. 301 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:55.519 Jerry Springer, the Steve Wilco Show, Sally Jesse, Rafael, even Ricky 302 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:57.839 Light can get it. Like, none of it. None of it is 303 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:03.839 what I would call a liabel source. Somebody watched their TV shows. I 304 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.319 barely ever got to be homesick, but then I got allergies and my eyes 305 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.799 would swell up, and then I literally once I was in high school, 306 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:15.000 I was like, I refuse to go to school. I will not. 307 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:21.880 I watched Passions, which is a basically Days of Our Lives, but there 308 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.400 was like witches and there was a there was a little person in it that 309 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:30.359 was like a doll that came away. It was weird, okay, as 310 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:36.200 you can imagine, But that all of it, Patreon, nobody needs to 311 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:41.160 know. Yeah, I'm at did the twins ever see a medical doctor? 312 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.279 You know you would, you would hope so. But also, even if 313 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:51.759 the one twin had seizures, the other twin didn't. Why are the twins 314 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:57.119 the ones that had the nightmares? But then Charlie Faults ends up taking the 315 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.000 hypnotherapy too, just to see because it's recommended to them, and he's just 316 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.640 like, I guess that that. I'm like, yeah, I'm bored, 317 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.200 Let's let me go do this weird thing with our friends. That's friendship if 318 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.119 you're just like, yeah, so I started dreaming about the beeping hook hand 319 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:17.359 and I think I have to repressed memory. And then exactly, and then 320 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.240 me and Chipper like, yeah, sure, we'll go right after you see 321 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.880 a doctor, even though we weren't even there. It turns out they all 322 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.519 pass the test. The thing is, if one of you said that to 323 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.640 me, I'd be like, oh honey, this is psychosis. But if 324 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.160 both of you said it to the independently of each other, I'd be like 325 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.960 they say, good, I'd be the one that said we need to go 326 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:44.359 go to hypnotherapy. If you independently both oh, there was something in the 327 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.839 hash we didn't have. There really is power and corroboration, even if that 328 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.960 corroboration is I think we were abducted by alias. You know what I mean. 329 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:57.039 Like if you're if your friend says I saw a man in the woods, 330 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.759 and you're like, sure you did, honey. If both of you 331 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.079 say I saw a man in the woods, I say, let's get the 332 00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:07.480 fuck up out of here. We don't die out here. You know what 333 00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:12.079 I mean, even if it seems outlandish and crazy when two people you trust 334 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:17.279 tell you the same shit, but they don't have to be lying. Do 335 00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:21.519 you know how easy it is to accidentally implant a memory, not even on 336 00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:25.640 purpose, accidentally. It's so easy to make fake memories. I've been doing 337 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.119 it this whole show. You'll all find out what it is later. Well, 338 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:37.880 fair enough if you join our Patreon smash that like button. Oh it's 339 00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:42.519 back. Now we have another one from chit. Yes, we do so, 340 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:48.039 Mikey, as our resident boomer, do you know that everything has become 341 00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:56.119 crab crab everything become crab. No you're not familiar. No, Well, 342 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.759 as the Internet will tell you, everything in the world is becoming crab. 343 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:06.559 The one true evolution of nature is that crabs just keep evolving. It's a 344 00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.079 good shape. So I was like, I wonder why that is. And 345 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:18.240 the answer is, it's not that interesting. It's not that interesting, but 346 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.039 let me tell you about it on this podcast. So what you're basically saying 347 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:27.000 is that crabs are like evolving more so than most of the species on this 348 00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:32.599 planet all the time. Is that what you're saying, Well, there's been 349 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:40.240 five instances entirely separate from each other, where the crab shape, the crabness 350 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:45.400 has evolved, And that's interesting. I see what you're saying. More species 351 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.480 are starting to evolve towards the crab shape. Is that what you're saying. 352 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:53.920 Yeah, I would prefer to be a lobster. They're immortal. But that's 353 00:28:53.920 --> 00:29:00.319 just me. Yeah, what's that about? What's I haven't looked into that? 354 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:03.480 That should be your next Internet rabbit hole, Mike. We've contributed. 355 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.440 It's so bizarre. I would very much like to be immortal. It depends, 356 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.519 it depends so much on the rules of the immortality. Where's the fountain 357 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.839 of youth? Well, it's obviously in the lobsters. Have we looked. 358 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:19.799 It's also the jellyfish. There's a jellyfish. Yeah, that's true. If 359 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.559 you bred a lobster with a jellyfish, things are becoming more crab like. 360 00:29:23.799 --> 00:29:29.799 Period continue, Well, first, what makes what is crap? What are 361 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:34.279 we calling when we say something evolved to be crabby? So it's a relatively 362 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:40.640 flat, roundest body shape. There's the flattening and bending of the pleon, 363 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.160 which is the abdomen type thingy of the lobster, the dobster tail ish type 364 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:51.839 thing. So there's that, there's the lack of a significant tail um. 365 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:59.200 And then the like certain things the sternites have fused into at least partially a 366 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.039 single sort of Sternham type thing going on. And that one's complicated. Don't 367 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.960 ask me to explain it in detail. Many instead of having like two rib 368 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.920 cages, it's kind of being coming one type. Yeah, yeah, something 369 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.039 like that. Similar to that, you have sort of the reduction of certain 370 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:21.440 muscles, specifically the ones and the legs that do the forward and backward, 371 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:25.440 not the side to side. The reason we think this is interesting is because 372 00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:33.519 there were like five instances of entirely unrelated crustaceans that move towards this. And 373 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:38.559 it's interesting because they're in vastly different environments as far as the ocean is concerned. 374 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:44.039 But they're like these ones lives on a volcano, an underwater volcano, 375 00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.640 and these ones live on the coast, And what do you mean they both 376 00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.920 became crab. That's weird. It See. To me, ending up in 377 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:59.759 like a flatter shell shape makes sense because of how heavy the ocean it actually 378 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:02.839 is when you're on the bottom of it, and so to me, it 379 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.519 makes sense that they would become flatter in the same way that stingrays became flatter. 380 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:10.440 So I don't know. But also my biggest thing is protection, probably 381 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:17.599 because basically creating a back shape and exoskeleton and flattening the surface can protect your 382 00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:22.200 internal ones underneath instead of being exposed, so that they're coming in and their 383 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.960 internal organs that need protecting are underneath their biggest surface, you know. Yeah, 384 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.359 And they would keep their legs and not swim for that exact same reason, 385 00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:37.319 because then their belly is never exposed to anything except for the ocean floor. 386 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.839 Those are basically some decent guesses as to like, you know, biologists 387 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:47.680 aren't certain why this happened, but here are some hypotheses. Having the pleon 388 00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.920 bent in under you is less surface area for a predator to grab, no 389 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.799 lobster tail grabbing. Yeah, a lower center of gravity. That's probably helpful. 390 00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.240 There's lots of gravity down there. Defensively, it's really good. I 391 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:05.039 guess all of them hold their eggs with the curved under pleon, and so 392 00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:08.119 if that's underneath you, that's a lot easier to protect. For the ones 393 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:13.880 that do have the side to side movement running side decide when all your predators 394 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.880 expect you to run forward and backward. That helps. It's confusing them. 395 00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:22.640 And maybe the flatter rounder body is better for like hiding in crevices or under 396 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:27.519 rocks or shit like that, or looking like a rock. So why isn't 397 00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:31.839 this a full episode because it's it's not that interesting. It's just that a 398 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:37.039 rabbit hole and ended up with a dead end. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes 399 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.359 that happens with rabbit holes. Sometimes you think it's going to be a very 400 00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:45.640 interesting I prefer those because the three day rabbit holes aren't fun. Yeah, 401 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.400 the three day rabbit holes are a lot right. I want an answer, 402 00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.440 but I don't want a boring answer. I wanted the bishop to be trans 403 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:57.599 these were only crustaceans who evolved into it. There's no not even crustaceans that's 404 00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:01.519 evolved. Crapley. There's a lot of species, more than five I think 405 00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:06.599 that evolved away from crab. And they're like, we're done with being crab. 406 00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:10.839 And it's just a specific example of convergent evolution. And there are lots 407 00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:17.400 of those. For example, a really interesting one is there are animals that 408 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.440 can sleep with half their brain while the other half is awake. It's called 409 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:30.279 uni hemispheric slow wave sleep, and it evolved separately in migratory birds like thrushes, 410 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:37.119 dolphins, whales, manatees, and seals. Feels like a Brennan Lee 411 00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:43.359 mulligan bird. Fact, So not everything become crab. It boring convergent evolution, 412 00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:52.480 it's interesting in general. That's all. Okay, we should we do 413 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:59.279 a natro as well. Yeah, and that concludes our second installment of Internet 414 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:06.279 rabbit Holes. We've fallen down until next time. That's it, Meet By 415 00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:10.320 by By. That's all, folks. You just listen to the Deep Dark 416 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:16.960 Truth podcast. See you next time, and remember your local cryptids want to 417 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:17.880 meet you.