You were in the place where mysteries and the missing meet. We're conspiracies lurk
around every corner. Welcome to the deep dark Truth. Welcome back to the
deep dark Truth. I'm Mo, I'm Chip, and I'm Mikey, and
today we are doing part two of Internet Rabbit Holes. We've fallen down all
right, Chip, why don't you start us off? One? This one
I found out about through a trivia game I was playing with some friends.
The question was what weird thing was found in this coffin of this seventeenth century
bishop and the answer was a baby. So I had to look it up
because I was hoping for secret trans but it spoilers. It is non secret
trans. So this guy, Bishop Peter Win strips Borne sixteen oh five died
sixteen seventy nine was the bishop of Lund in southern Sweden. In twenty fifteen,
his body was going to be moved from the crypt in the Lund Cathedral
over to like the north tower. So hey, we're moving on, old
body. Let's X ray the thing and get to look at it, because
anthropology is fun. So they x ray the box and when they look at
it, well, first his body is weirdly well preserved, Like he wasn't
embombed or mummified or anything like that, but he's really well preserved some places
where like you could you thought it was just a regular guy sleeping, which
no, or if I do think this guy is just sleeping, I'm very
concerned for his health. But he's like he's got skin. Interesting what they
think would happened is that a combination of the climate being super cold and super
dry, and the plants he was like buried with a lot of them had
like preservative and antiseptic and insect repelling properties, so he was just buried with
enough flowers that he was really well preserved. That's interesting. You would think
that it would do the opposite because plants give off oxygen, and oxygen decays.
I was thinking that it was just sealed off completely with no oxygen,
so there was no room for a decay. Like you know, you can
like I didn't realize this, but that you can inject like sent molecules into
a vacuum or into his space and will kick the oxygen out, I would
say so and basically make it a no oxygen environment. It saw it not
a cooking sket like cooking thing when you smoke food like in a bag.
You can smoke it and smoke the bag and it displaces the oxygen out of
the bag, so the food will stay fresher longer. Like, that's interesting,
that's weird. What if my hang ups with being buried even though it
shouldn't matter, is that I note that insects are going to eat me.
Yeah, that's your objection, I think. So. I didn't grow up
in a house where I didn't even know that cremation existed until I was like
eleven. There was some new story when I was a teenager that it was
basically like, oh, they want to go cremator and she was alive,
still shed pulse, and so I was like, I don't know, cremation
freaks me out, but being eaten by bugs. Also, if you're dead,
even though I know, do you need a grave blanket? Are you
cold? Are you cold? You need a grave blanket? Listen? Yes,
you better buy me one, But I want a comforter. I want
a grave comfort, so listen. If anybody else said this to me,
I'd be like, you're dead. Like when people are like but like they
get into their religious quandary and I'm like, who cares? You're dead.
That's what I say to them. But I don't know. Man, something
about it freaks me out. So I just want to be buried with all
these plants. I want to know exactly what plants he was buried with.
Make sure that I'm married with those. Well, don't be buried in Michigan
because it has to be dry. Maybe it was the baby that did the
trick. Yeah, it was the magic baby. Oh yeah, the baby
was the whole all right, back to the thing. Yeah, yeah,
that was the important part I forgot. Sorry, I got real hyper focused.
So it's it was a stillborn fetus. Male DNA on analysis shows that
it was a twenty five percent So the combo it could be an uncle nephew
relationship, half siblings, double cousin, which is when you have twins marrying
twins, or grandchild grandparent. Probably probably grand grandparent child right, assuming his
age because he lived to be seventy four, so I would assume that it
was probably a grandchild, and they probably died around the same time, so
they just buried them together exactly. So I'm assuming there was some type of
accidents that caused them both to be dead. Oh no, he died of
stillborn. Right, Yeah, it was a stillborn. Yeah, it's a
fetus leave on costs. Yeah, spoilers, that's what it was. Yeah.
So they go through and he had a brother who died childless. Um,
he has a sister who could have had a kid. But the DNA
analysis is like there's something specific that was not like super rare, but rare
enough on the Y chromosome that would be kind of a quite a coincidence if
the you know, the not related to him man breathing with his sister had
that same shegnetic trait. And he had one son who survived to adulthood,
and so we think it's probably the stillborn of that. So his grandson and
it wasn't that in this economy put him together. So yeah, that was
it. Interesting fun fact that I just found silly. So his father was
also a bishop, and when his father, the bishop, died, his
mother married the bishop who replaced him. Interesting, just chugging through those bishops.
She must have been really good running the ladies club at the church or
whatever the fuck. Yeah, she's really good at running the ladies club at
church. Yeah, bishop is what she was really good at it. I
was just gonna say, you can't see us, but Mikey is making a
vulgar jesture with his hand. There's a reason where a podcast and nuts,
Oh Bishop, is that a cardinal point that I see? Oh no,
why aren't we a visual media? I take it back, Yeah, facts,
we should record these, delete most of them, but didn't put little
ones on the Patreon. It's like the Bloopers, but just and then you
can put ten video snippets of me side by side and how high I am
and his eyes are barely That's why we're not a visual media. And then
like it's a one he just had a light day in I'm all like Chipper,
the next rabbit hole that I have fallen down the Alagash aliens, So
in addition to the Phoenix lights, this was one of my first exposures to
aliens. But it was kind of with the vagueness way surpassing the Phoenix lights,
more along the lines of Chip's murder Throne from beyond belief factor affection of
the Chonathan fracts. It was like I saw it, I had a vague
recollection of it, and then years later saw it on the Internet and said,
oh my gosh, that's the thing and fell down the raal. Shit,
fuck not Russell Crowe. Who do I mean? Oh? Now,
now you fucked me up because I could picture him in my head and he's
literally Goldie Hawn's husband, and it's just Kurt Russell, not so basically a
Kurt Russell, exactly like Kurt Russell. You might say, me and Kurt
Russell, I have so much in common. So in August of nineteen seventy
six, four friends, Chuck Rack, Charlie Faults, and twins Jim and
Jack Winer went camping for two weeks in the Alagash Wilderness. The Alagash Wilderness
is a ninety two square mile area of Maine that is home to the Alagash
Wilderness Waterway, which is a popular setting for canoeing and fishing. So all
four of them were classmates attending the Massachusetts College of Art and Design and they
decided to go on a trip together. On the second night of their trip,
the group of young men saw an unidentified flying object in the sky.
It was a ball of light that appeared and when they got curious, they
got out there a binocul. They observed it for fifteen to thirty seconds before
it seemed to collapse in on itself, and while the incident seemed strange,
they hadn't been able to observe it for very long, and they quickly shrugged
off the incident. On the fourth day of their trip, while on a
nighttime fishing expedition on Big Eagle Lake, the mysterious object appeared again, Only
this time the light endured, and the group felt as if they were being
examined or watched that creepy hair on the back of your neck feeling. They
watched it as it began coming in their direction, and all of them,
unsettled, started making their way back to their campsite in their canoe, but
it was still moving towards them, and it was moving way faster than they
themselves. Capattle but somehow, though they could not recall exactly the details of
how the men found themselves back on the shore and the object absent when they
left their campsite, they had added plenty of wood to their camp fire so
that they wouldn't have to attempt to relight it again in the dark. It
could also help guide them back to their very specific campsite in the event that
they got turned God, that's a fire hazard. We don't all live in
states that just laid down smoking the bear. Only you can. But it
is a very different like growing up here is very different than down there.
Like down here, once it starts going it coals, it's like, okay,
we're gonna let the fire burn down. Also, uh, they were
only away from their campsite for less than twenty minutes, and their campsite was
on the water, so like they could see if all of a sudden the
trees started catch on the water. But like, so what you're saying is
we haven't made contact with intelligence because the first person that they scanned was Jack
Winer, and who likes to start forest That's that's yeah, that's what I'm
saying. Okay, So when they arrived back at camp, the men estimated
that it had been like twenty minutes, but the fire had burned down completely.
There was only a few embers left. Okay, but like they had
it in their sight the whole time, is what you were saying. And
then yes, so their campsite was on the water, but they got in
their canoe and they went out in the middle of this well not the middle
of this lake because it's a large lake. But they started paddling out to
go fishing. So the ideas they're just going a little while in the water,
they're going to start night fishing, and then this event happens. They
start paddling back to get back and all of a sudden exactly and then all
of a sudden, their fire has burnt out. Their logs are gone.
But they estimate that it's you say logs are gone, You you just mean
they burned down, Not like our logs are missing. The fire has been
stolen. No, but like maybe somebody stole their fire. I don't know
what if you're like, I don't have any wood. Oh, that one's
on fire. Fuck these people, they're about to burn down this whole for
us. Get them Chip and you're just like, all right with your fucking
firestick of death. You're camping firestick of death. So here's a quote from
the original Unsolved Mysteries with Robert Stack. They did a coverage of this case
in like season and seven and the nineties. Quote. The unusual thing is
that we didn't stay up for hours and discuss this thing, which you would
think four young guys on a camping trip would do. We just seemed very
fatigued and wanted to go to bed. The next morning, we got up
and got our camp together and paddled to the next campsite. And that is
a quote from Jack Winer, or as Mikey says, Jack Wiener, We'll
never know. I feel like we can. We can know, but I
refused. So. According to Rack, they reported the incident to a ranger,
and that ranger said that they believed the lights to be part of the
grand opening of a nearby hardware store. There was no other incidents during this
trip, and aside from some ribbing from their friends and family that they later
shared the story with, that was it. That was it for twelve years
anyway. So years later, the twins both start having nightmares, and the
focus of those nightmares all seemed to center on this trip they had taken with
their friends a decade prior. Another quote from Unsolved Mysteries quote, I was
starting to have nightmares, really terrible nightmares that I could not explain. I
found myself in a brightly lit room. I had no idea where I was
or why I was there. To my left, I could see my brother
Jim, Chuck Rack, and Charlie Fult sitting on some type of bench,
and they were all naked. I was wondering why they weren't helping me,
because I felt like I was in danger. And while I'm trying to figure
this out, I noticed this figure or a dark shadowy type figure emerging from
this light, this bright light in front of me. I would wake up,
sweating and breathing and just in a state of terror and shock. So
wanting answers, Jim Winer reached out to a ufologist named Ray Fowler, and
he suggested that all four friends undergo hypnosis in an attempt to get to the
bottom of the root cause of the nightmares, as well as to try and
account for the missing time that these men seemed to experience. And all of
them agreed, whether due to curiosity and Rack and Folks case, or simply
to hope that the nightmares would end. In the Twins case, all four
of the men underwent their own hypnosis, completely separate from each other, but
most of their stories were similar. They recollected being abducted and made to give
sample of blood, semen, urine, and skin, and even in some
cases drawing out those recollections. I say most because years later, in twenty
sixteen, Rax said that he didn't recall anything during his session in regards to
the missing time, and that he went along with the others recollections because he
thought he would be able to make money. Thank you, sir for approving
everything I need to say. He did, however, say that he was
witnessed to the two original UFO sidings the same as the other three, which
is kind of important, just in my opinion, because all four of them
took polygraphs, and all four of them passed the polygraph tests. You know
how we feel about polygraph tests, he here now, right, You know
how we feel the polygraphs aren't reliable, do not take them. Also know
that not taking them will make you look guilty. So if you do have
to take one, get one from an independent third party. My spiel all
day. However, in terms of they're not complete, are error? However,
in terms of error, failing a polygraph is much more common than passing
a polygraph, so like in terms of accidental and four people passing is kind
of wild. But I have tried to find exactly what questions were asked,
and I have not been able to find exactly what questions are asked. But
that's the thing that made me reinterested in him, Like, what the hell
do you mean that they were abducted and took polygraphs and then they all pass
polygraphs. Four people passing polygraphs is back hip bananas in Also, it just
means they believe something. And also the one guy doesn't even believe it any
best, he does believe that about the other two UFO sightings, he just
said that in his hypnosis he didn't uncover any unlocked memories him specifically, and
that he went along with it because he thought that he'd get money, specifically
because everybody passed their polygraphs and that the other ones did recollect things with his
hypnotherapist or whatever. But I just want to know exactly the questions. Yeah,
Internet, I need you to send those to us so that we can
assess. Is it called a uphologist yes? And is it called a hypnotherapist?
Okay, So Rax says he went along with it. He also claims
that he believes that Jim's nightmares had started because at some point Jim had fallen
and had suffered seizures. So he thinks that after suffering this fall that he
was having visions of these humanoid beings levitating a bed above his bed, poking
him with needles from these seizures that he was having, that that's why he
was having the visuals. Well, I was gonna say, you know,
it doesn't sound like classical night terrors. But have we talked to a doctor?
Well, I think that he They went, They jumped right to us,
and then they went to an hypnotherapist, which is not the same as
a regular therapist. You need to see a regular therapist before you discuss hypnotherapy.
If you are not in a place to be hypnotized and unlock some traumatic
shit, you should not be doing that because that can cause a deeper psychosis.
It's not good. It's not good stuff. Rac also said that they
were stoned on hash the night of the abduction as a disclaimer, you know,
but hash only inducing hallucinations, but also inducing the same hallucination unlikely.
On the flip side of that, the other three deny that Hash was involved
at all, that they had only brought a specific beer. I think they
were like, we bought brought three packs in migeloge Ultra. It was really
weird. Faults basically said that RAC is trying to get some sort of payback
because rac has been banned from some UFO conventions. This literally, I was
like, oh my god, convention drama. So he says. He says
that Rack was banned from UFO conventions for poor behavior, and because of that
poor behavior, the other three cut him loose and cut him out of the
friend group. Quote. We definitely steer clear of him because that guy is
a loose cannon and a mental disaster fault, said one of the twins that
he was accusing of seizures. He said, Jim Weiner, quote, I
personally believe that mister Racks self aggrandizing rationalizations and disparaging accusations are simply the rantings
of an angry and resentful individual on whom his former friends have turned their backs.
Mike Drop Jim Winer, I could just as easily say that they're they're
saying that because he's calling them out because they're doing the bullshit. That's fair.
But he admits to seeing he didn't walk it all the way back.
He just said I didn't uncover anything with the hypno therapist. But he admits
that they saw a hypno therapist, and he admits that he does believe in
the very first two UFO sightings, so like you're not really getting them bad.
You would be like, oh, we made it all up for attention
if you were trying to get back at them in that way, right,
But I think that he's either one he doesn't want to be perceived as a
liar, which he's admitting to at least lying about one thing. So I
don't know why that's not the right strategy. So I'm moving on from that
one. So weird. But can you imagine, like, just as part
of the former convention drown the circuit, I can see me and Chip have
personally dropped people for a bad behavior. Yeah, it's not unreasonable. Don't
think I'm kind of get out entirely. I also have a friend too who
was high up and organizing Yukon and tells me horror stories too. It's convention
dramas and their behavior. Why is there a con culture con micro celebrity.
Micro celebrity is so common in convention spaces, and anyone can become a micro
celebrity. It is the weirdest fandom, famous fandom famous. It is the
weirdest culture unto itself. And every fandom has its own culture, and every
convention has its own culture, it's weird. So as soon as they were
like, no he was. He was wild and out at some conventions,
so much so that he got banned. And as somebody that has worked at
said conventions, I'm like, what did you do to get banned? Nothing
good? They had banned in a gas that got abducted by aliens at an
alien conference, unless you done fucked up that statistically speaker like, no,
no, no, he's mad that we didn't stand by him because he was
wild and out and that's it. Like, that's it. So either way
you slice it, amazing, amazing drama. I left every second of it
and going over it as an adult with hindsight, the convention drama just really
brought it to a whole other level. But the polygraphs is what drew me
in, especially like just all four of them. I want to know exactly
what question I want that too, and how were they worded, how strictly
were they strictly graph graded? How do we not have that information? I
don't know, because of how do you get to claim that all four polygraph
tests were passed? But then not when you start following citations, Eventually people
stopped citing shit. I mean what I haven't learned from research for the show.
Well, that's I think what it is is because I'm sure that there
are citations that exist somewhere, but they're just lost to the time of modern
Internet. Because this happened in the seventies. It was a decade later before
the nightmare started. I thought it was in the nineties. Wait, no,
that was the unsolved episode. Shit, So the unsolved episode is what
was in the nineties, but the actual incident happened in nineteen seventy six.
So it happened in nineteen seventy six. A decade later is like when these
nightmares are to a breaking point for the twins. So now we're in nineteen
eighty six. They then start doing the hypnotherapy blah blah Blah's a couple of
years in the nineties, it gets a surgence of popularity because Unsolved Mysteries covers
it. They end up going on like Sally Jesse Raphael and people were so
intrigued by it. And that's where the kind of line of secession. I
guess you would say it gets lost as to who performed the polygraph test,
like did Sally Jesse Raphael? Did they? Because that's different. If you
tell me, If you tell me, Jerry Springer says that they passed the
polygraph test, all four of them. Suddenly I'm like, no one passed
the polygraph test versus some third party institution that some news organization paid for.
They took the test and they passed it. Verry Springer very different. Yeah,
absolutely, Like I don't trust an eternity test. I don't trust anything.
We don't know. If you're the father, I have the test,
you are the alien. Yeah, if it's on when you're home from school
sick, I don't. That's a reliable source of Days of Our Lives.
Jerry Springer, the Steve Wilco Show, Sally Jesse, Rafael, even Ricky
Light can get it. Like, none of it. None of it is
what I would call a liabel source. Somebody watched their TV shows. I
barely ever got to be homesick, but then I got allergies and my eyes
would swell up, and then I literally once I was in high school,
I was like, I refuse to go to school. I will not.
I watched Passions, which is a basically Days of Our Lives, but there
was like witches and there was a there was a little person in it that
was like a doll that came away. It was weird, okay, as
you can imagine, But that all of it, Patreon, nobody needs to
know. Yeah, I'm at did the twins ever see a medical doctor?
You know you would, you would hope so. But also, even if
the one twin had seizures, the other twin didn't. Why are the twins
the ones that had the nightmares? But then Charlie Faults ends up taking the
hypnotherapy too, just to see because it's recommended to them, and he's just
like, I guess that that. I'm like, yeah, I'm bored,
Let's let me go do this weird thing with our friends. That's friendship if
you're just like, yeah, so I started dreaming about the beeping hook hand
and I think I have to repressed memory. And then exactly, and then
me and Chipper like, yeah, sure, we'll go right after you see
a doctor, even though we weren't even there. It turns out they all
pass the test. The thing is, if one of you said that to
me, I'd be like, oh honey, this is psychosis. But if
both of you said it to the independently of each other, I'd be like
they say, good, I'd be the one that said we need to go
go to hypnotherapy. If you independently both oh, there was something in the
hash we didn't have. There really is power and corroboration, even if that
corroboration is I think we were abducted by alias. You know what I mean.
Like if you're if your friend says I saw a man in the woods,
and you're like, sure you did, honey. If both of you
say I saw a man in the woods, I say, let's get the
fuck up out of here. We don't die out here. You know what
I mean, even if it seems outlandish and crazy when two people you trust
tell you the same shit, but they don't have to be lying. Do
you know how easy it is to accidentally implant a memory, not even on
purpose, accidentally. It's so easy to make fake memories. I've been doing
it this whole show. You'll all find out what it is later. Well,
fair enough if you join our Patreon smash that like button. Oh it's
back. Now we have another one from chit. Yes, we do so,
Mikey, as our resident boomer, do you know that everything has become
crab crab everything become crab. No you're not familiar. No, Well,
as the Internet will tell you, everything in the world is becoming crab.
The one true evolution of nature is that crabs just keep evolving. It's a
good shape. So I was like, I wonder why that is. And
the answer is, it's not that interesting. It's not that interesting, but
let me tell you about it on this podcast. So what you're basically saying
is that crabs are like evolving more so than most of the species on this
planet all the time. Is that what you're saying, Well, there's been
five instances entirely separate from each other, where the crab shape, the crabness
has evolved, And that's interesting. I see what you're saying. More species
are starting to evolve towards the crab shape. Is that what you're saying.
Yeah, I would prefer to be a lobster. They're immortal. But that's
just me. Yeah, what's that about? What's I haven't looked into that?
That should be your next Internet rabbit hole, Mike. We've contributed.
It's so bizarre. I would very much like to be immortal. It depends,
it depends so much on the rules of the immortality. Where's the fountain
of youth? Well, it's obviously in the lobsters. Have we looked.
It's also the jellyfish. There's a jellyfish. Yeah, that's true. If
you bred a lobster with a jellyfish, things are becoming more crab like.
Period continue, Well, first, what makes what is crap? What are
we calling when we say something evolved to be crabby? So it's a relatively
flat, roundest body shape. There's the flattening and bending of the pleon,
which is the abdomen type thingy of the lobster, the dobster tail ish type
thing. So there's that, there's the lack of a significant tail um.
And then the like certain things the sternites have fused into at least partially a
single sort of Sternham type thing going on. And that one's complicated. Don't
ask me to explain it in detail. Many instead of having like two rib
cages, it's kind of being coming one type. Yeah, yeah, something
like that. Similar to that, you have sort of the reduction of certain
muscles, specifically the ones and the legs that do the forward and backward,
not the side to side. The reason we think this is interesting is because
there were like five instances of entirely unrelated crustaceans that move towards this. And
it's interesting because they're in vastly different environments as far as the ocean is concerned.
But they're like these ones lives on a volcano, an underwater volcano,
and these ones live on the coast, And what do you mean they both
became crab. That's weird. It See. To me, ending up in
like a flatter shell shape makes sense because of how heavy the ocean it actually
is when you're on the bottom of it, and so to me, it
makes sense that they would become flatter in the same way that stingrays became flatter.
So I don't know. But also my biggest thing is protection, probably
because basically creating a back shape and exoskeleton and flattening the surface can protect your
internal ones underneath instead of being exposed, so that they're coming in and their
internal organs that need protecting are underneath their biggest surface, you know. Yeah,
And they would keep their legs and not swim for that exact same reason,
because then their belly is never exposed to anything except for the ocean floor.
Those are basically some decent guesses as to like, you know, biologists
aren't certain why this happened, but here are some hypotheses. Having the pleon
bent in under you is less surface area for a predator to grab, no
lobster tail grabbing. Yeah, a lower center of gravity. That's probably helpful.
There's lots of gravity down there. Defensively, it's really good. I
guess all of them hold their eggs with the curved under pleon, and so
if that's underneath you, that's a lot easier to protect. For the ones
that do have the side to side movement running side decide when all your predators
expect you to run forward and backward. That helps. It's confusing them.
And maybe the flatter rounder body is better for like hiding in crevices or under
rocks or shit like that, or looking like a rock. So why isn't
this a full episode because it's it's not that interesting. It's just that a
rabbit hole and ended up with a dead end. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes
that happens with rabbit holes. Sometimes you think it's going to be a very
interesting I prefer those because the three day rabbit holes aren't fun. Yeah,
the three day rabbit holes are a lot right. I want an answer,
but I don't want a boring answer. I wanted the bishop to be trans
these were only crustaceans who evolved into it. There's no not even crustaceans that's
evolved. Crapley. There's a lot of species, more than five I think
that evolved away from crab. And they're like, we're done with being crab.
And it's just a specific example of convergent evolution. And there are lots
of those. For example, a really interesting one is there are animals that
can sleep with half their brain while the other half is awake. It's called
uni hemispheric slow wave sleep, and it evolved separately in migratory birds like thrushes,
dolphins, whales, manatees, and seals. Feels like a Brennan Lee
mulligan bird. Fact, So not everything become crab. It boring convergent evolution,
it's interesting in general. That's all. Okay, we should we do
a natro as well. Yeah, and that concludes our second installment of Internet
rabbit Holes. We've fallen down until next time. That's it, Meet By
by By. That's all, folks. You just listen to the Deep Dark
Truth podcast. See you next time, and remember your local cryptids want to
meet you.