What is crack a lac in Fellows Thermonuclear a Efforts. I am Dana Valley
coming at you with my certified fantabular's co host, mister Grant Hughes. We
are excited, ecstatic to record the podcast. We thought we were going to
record last week when we just bounce around talk about some of the teams and
players we're thinking about most these days. James Harden got traded last week,
though, and so we had to audible that won't be happening this week before
we get started. The user reminder, though, please if you haven't already
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I won't respond to everyone, but that's that's for the Algo, So do
it for the Algo grant. How the heck are you? I am reclined
a little bit, as you can see, because this is an unusual recording
time for us. It's it's almost nine pm my time, so you got
like eight minutes before I literally fall asleep. So any long pauses, like
just if you have like a like a whistle you can blow or something to
make sure I'm not all the way unconscious, that'd be great. Uh So
I played adding intro. Every time I see you dozing, I'm ready to
forget words. I've already done that a little bit in our pre tape,
uh pre taping conversation. So yeah, this will be good. But I
am excited because I I I was hoping we would get to do this last
week, Uh, just to have sort of a general like what are you
paying attention to conversation and we could not. But nobody got traded today,
so or late last night. I guess there's still a couple of minutes left
in the day for me. Don't say that just yeah, that's true.
Yeah, well, it's will pivot hard. It means you are Chicago bull.
You almost like got me right into one of my bounce around thoughts.
But we won't do that quite yet. I would Uh you want to go
first? Do you want to? I don't know if this needs an intro.
We're just gonna jump. Oh you wanted the injury thing first. Yeah,
so we're gonna try. It won't be every podcast, but we're gonna
try and just kind of bounce around and update the you know, all the
injuries and happenings and returns and whatever that are noteworthy to us around the league.
So we'll alternate here. I'll start the nets. Cam Johnson is dealing
with a left calf bruise since the first game of the season. He's finally
moved from doubtful that's upgraded from out on the injury report. Nick Claxton remains
out with a high left ankle sprain, and it'll be surprising if he is
back before December. I feel like we should add a quip that might be
too much, but it was gonna say something like, doesn't matter because Cam
Thomas will score enough for all the cams that there are. Okay, so
I have the next one. Isaacacorro Cleveland Cavaliers wing set to miss a second
game with left knees hornis that's another one. Glad we're doing this because I
did not know that he had missed a game with knee horness. This is
a big one. Jamal Murray right hamstring strain is going to miss extended time.
The Nuggets have been very clear about that, and so we saw the
Nuggets pull out the victory over the Pelicans without him. But that's something to
monitor for sure. Also something monitor. Nicole Joki has started cropping up on
the injury report with a right wrist inflammation. He did play against the Pelicans
to that thirty five point triple double, but again with Murray injured, that's
definitely something to keep an eye on. A litany of Detroit Pistons injuries which
really struck me as I was watching one of the recent games and saw just
like two rows deep of street clothes players on the bench. It was not
exaggering. So Joe Harris is going to be reevaluated in ten to fourteen days
after being diagnosed with a sprain day sea joint in his right shoulder. Jade
Nivey is going to miss a third straight game Wednesday with illness. Jalen Duran
remains day to day with a right ankle injury injury. Montey Morris is two
weeks into a three week reevaluation timeline for a right quad strain. Boy On
Bogdanovich is two weeks into a four week reevaluation timeline for a right calf strain.
Isaiah Livers is five weeks into a six to eight week absence with a
Grade three left ankle sprain. Alec Burks It's going to miss his fifth straight
game with left farm with a left forearm contusion on Wednesday. The Pistons have
a really good roster that is not playing right now, and yet Jay and
Ivey, even when he's not sick, still not play enough. The Rockets
Amen Thompson left the fourth game of the season with a right ankle Sprain is
out of his walking boot, but there's still no timeline for his return.
It was initially reported as a week's long absence. Tarry Easton returned to the
practice court for the first time this season after suffering a stress reaction in his
left leg. The timeline for his return is also unclear, but head coach
Emyodoka says it will be soon. For the Clippers. Mason Plumley had has
a left MCL strain. He's gonna miss at least the next two games.
Terrence Man, he got injury, but I didn't see it. People said
it was pretty gruesome. Look I saw the words like carted off or like
carried off by two of his team off. Yeah, not great. So
at least is the operative term here next two games. It seems like it
may be quite a bit more than that. Terrence Man, the untradable left
ankle sprain has yet to play. He's questionable for Wednesday. Should he start'
just peppering questions a speaker speaking of a smattering of injuries the Lakers. After
missing four games with concussion symptoms, Ruby Hachamora will return on Wednesday. Gabe
Vincent will be out at least another week with his left knee injury. He's
already missed about a week or so. Anthony Davis says his hip injury will
be fine, but he's still listed on the Lakers' injury report as questionable.
Jared Vanderbilt is about one week away from being re evaluated with his left heel
injury that has signlined him for the entirety of the season so far. Jackson
Hayes is still day to day with his left ankle's brain jallenhood Chafino has yet
to play this season with right potella with a right potello contusion and remains a
few weeks away, according to head coach Darvin Haam. Bunch of injuries for
the Grizzlies two Derrick Rose he's week to week with a left knee injury.
John Contrad doubtful first second straight game with a hip injury on Wednesday. Xavier
Tillman is going to miss his second straight game with right knee soreness. Obviously,
Steven Adams done for the year, Brandon Clark may play later this year,
don't know left achilles injury from last season, and John Morant suspended,
not injured, but also not playing for Memphis for the Heat. Caleb Martin
his left knee injury. He's only appeared in one game so far, still
does not have a timetable for return. And Jimmy Butler is still battling right
knee tendonitis which is definitely impacting him. That or he just really doesn't care
about the regular season anymore. He is, however, listed as probable for
Miami's Wednesday game. Yes, speaking of troublesome knee issues, Chris Middleton is
still on a pitch count, essentially a maintenance program for a surgically repaired right
knee. This might be one we need to talk about more in depth later
on the podcast. But for the Pelicans, CJ. McCollum is out indefinitely
with a right collapsed lung. Trey Murphy is now eightish weeks into his initial
ten to twelve week timeline on his torn left meniscus. If we know anything
about the Pelicans, though, they probably undershot that timeline by a good four
to six weeks. Naji Marshall is about one week away from being re evaluated
for a bone bruise and his right knee that sidelined him for all season.
Jose Alvarado is still listed as out with the right ankle sprain that sidelined him
all year. Herb Jones is now dealing with right fibulous soreness and on the
injury report as questionable. Redd and Ingram, though has returned from his own
a bout of knie horness for the Knick. Sr J Barrett came back from
a left knee injury but says an issue that's going to linger for quote a
little bit that seems problematic, not great for the Thunder. Jalen Williams Big
Jalen Williams Jay will He is back. Kendrick Williams, however, remains sidelined
with back spasms. Still no timeline for his return. Usman Jang is now
dealing with pain in his right wrist. That is the right risk that he
fractured last year, so something to monitor there as well. Lou Dort is
also now on the injury report with hip issues. For the Magic, this
is a big one. Wendell Carter Junior is going to be reevaluated at least
three weeks after having surgery to repair a fractured third metacarpal in his left hand.
Jonathan Isaac is day to day with a star left hamstring. Jonathan Isaac
is day to day unless these months to month or year to year. Gary
Harris has missed a couple of games with a groin injury. He's also day
to day. Markel Foltz's off the injury report after missing time with left knee
issues for the Suns. Bradley Beal, who has yet to play this season
because of back issues, may make his debut for the Suns on Wednesday.
Is there a more? Is there an injury story that you're more bummed?
It was just like correct that the Suns would not get all these guys together
on the floor. We're gonna we're gonna hit like December before this happened.
At least it's not Kevin Durant, which is probably the one that you would
have bet on having the issues first. Right, Yeah, for sure,
But man, how deep we're gonna get before we see these guys? All
right? For the Blazers, another fairly significant one here. Robert Williams the
third need surgery to repair bone and ligament damage in his right kneecap. Uh.
There's a clean up procedure with a two to three month recovery timeline that
is on the table. I mean this is this is not the same knee,
by the way, I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong.
That has bothered him. He had left left knee surgery yes, last year,
so not great. Anthony Simons has another four to five weeks left on
his timetable coming back from right thumb surgery. Scoot Henderson still day to day
with a sprained right ankle. For the Kings, Daron Fox, who they
desperately need back his sprained right ankle, continues to have an unclear timetable.
That was a gnarly ankle sprain. Did you see that one? No?
I thank god, I've missed like all these, like all these, you
know, snapshots of the gruesome looking agrity. He came back and played after
in that game, But it was one of those ones where like the bottom
of the shoe had he been looking down, was visible, like it had
turned over that to that degree. For the Spurs, Devin Vessel still dealing
with a grown injury that's cost him a couple of games, but no,
has not cost him any space in our hearts or minds, because we love
Devan Missel to Noteworthy jazz injuries that have not cost them games yet anyway to
wrap this up? Walker Kessler's day to day with a left elbow sprain and
listed as questionable heading into Wednesday. Kiante George is dealing with left foot soreness,
but not expected to miss time as of now. I do feel like
though, it's worth noting that he had right ankle injury issues at Baylor and
also during summer League. Where do you want to oh? I was going
to ask you this question first before we could bounce around. He's in our
mailbag from Rome eighty one to eighty uh and I found it fascinating and it's
one I didn't want you to have time to think about. Will younger teams
start winning titles under the new CBA restrictions. Given how hard it's going to
be to keep teams together with payrolls like the Celtics, it seems like the
best path the titles might be having one to two older players and a bunch
of players on their first contracts. Who is who are unexpectedly good? Or
is that just too unlikely a roster construction to end up with, considering how
hard it is to draft well and how teams with good older players typically don't
get lottery picks. Yeah, that is interesting. It kind of a couple
thoughts come to mind first, Like what Rome is sort of putting forth here
as a potential you know, the next how how champions will be built.
I've always kind of thought you need a bunch of guys, whether they're on
their first contracts or their minimum signing because they had previous injury histories or something.
You need like several players to be dramatically outperforming what they're being paid,
in addition to guys that're maxed or near maxed or whatever. Like it always
takes both. So I do think whether that means the one to two players
that are maxed or making a ton of money are older and the cheaper guys
or the guys outperforming their deals are younger, Like, that's definitely a viable
way to do it. It could also just be instead of oh, these
guys are young and therefore you know they're on rookie scale deals or whatever,
it could just be like, you go get your because I view everything through
a Warriors prism, you go get your auto porter and Gary Payton for minimums
and then not Jordan Poole, Well you get rid of him when you pay
him too much, is what happens. So there's a couple of ways to
do it. I do think though a lot's been written and there's a lot
of really interesting stuff about, you know, the second Apron specifically, but
all these new changes in the CBA was supposed to just curtail basically exactly what
we're seeing teams like the Sun's Bucks Celtics go out and do. And it's
really those teams just taking advantage of a window before the pain really hits.
And I think, so, I guess my short answer is like, I
don't know what it's going to look like when all of the restrictions are kind
of in place. But what I do what seems clear now is a couple
of handful of teams are being really opportunistic and spending, like doing exactly the
opposite of what all the rule changes were designed to do before they sort of
can't get away with that anymore. So I don't know what's what's going to
happen when you know all of the you know, restrictions on salary aggregation and
how much you can send out and take back and all the draft pick stuff,
when those when those teeth are really kind of out which they're not yet
in total. Then maybe like there's a third option that's not being positive here
as a way to build a roster that we can't even conceive of yet.
I don't know what things will look like then, but yeah, that's an
interesting question. I think it's just like, you need guys that are playing
way better than their salaries, and you need like five or six of them
at a minimum, I think, to to really build a great roster.
Yeah, to just add on to what you were saying, I think what
the new rules we're gonna do. Probably I don't know that we start to
feel the or see the real effects until like two three, four years kind
of down the line, where not only is it okay now all the aggregation
rules are in effect, but now teams our need to get like avoid the
supertext. They're trying to make sure that their picks aren't locked. I think
it increases the importance of everything you said of finding your Caleb Martin's and so
that you're still gonna need those top end guys. I think what it will
also do is we are not I know we've said this time and again,
and I open to the idea that I might be wrong. I don't think
we're gonna see Clippers type Suns type formations, and if we do, they're
going to be even shorter lived than normal. Just I think it's gonna be
a lot of Oh, we have these top two guys and we're trying to
flesh out the roster around them, rather than let's try and assemble three four
stars like the Clippers have three, the Celtics have basically four at this point.
And the other thing that I think it will increase the importance of I
think since this prohibits teams a little bit from dealing distant first round picks,
I would guess just because the future is so uncertain, or maybe it increases
the urgency with which they do that. It steps on the toes of finding
the Caleb Martins, the Otto Porter juniors, the Gary Payton's. It's can
you get later cost controlled draft picks to hit for you, And I think
we're kind of seeing this isn't a team that's up against it. But like,
think about what the Mavericks are doing right now with Derek Lively, where
he's already starting and being useful. That might not be perfect, but the
fact that you're getting serviceable minutes from a rookie in the middle on a team
that has playoff or larger aspirations. Maybe that's something that becomes more common where
we're seeing these teams that have these two really good players and a top heavier
payroll or a lop sided payroll, they're going to be more open to starting
or drafting guys that they believe can play right away. Yeah, it might
really kind of yeah, I mean that kind of goes to what Roale's talking
about is you might have just more Derek Lively type guys. It like,
hey, we need you, You're gonna you're gonna play because we you know,
the Mavericks are a unique situation because they're you know, fairly pick poor
and you just got to figure some things out. But yeah, I just
I kind of wonder and I don't have an answer for this. But whenever
the CBA changes, there's always some kind of market inefficiency that arises and some
you know, eventually everybody figures out how to exploit it, but there's always
a few teams that do it first. And I don't know what that's gonna
gonna be, And I don't know who's gonna figure crack the case first,
you know, you know what it might be is getting players for cheaper on
their second contracts, because I do think more than ever team seem reticent to
tie up their cap space and restriction to free agents, but I which I
think is objectively stupid personally, but it does seem they're more hesitant than ever
to do that. And now we're seeing players kind of recognize that and say,
well, I can't be guaranteed that I'm gonna have an outside market once
I get there. And so well Cole Anthony as an example, three years
and what was it thirty nine million. Yeah, he's gotta be making mid
level money when that thing kicks in base. So are we going to see
players, Yeah, you're still gonna have to max out the guys who are
you know, Jason Tatum or Anthony Edwards, Like you have to max out
those guys, but everybody else were the upper middle class, like the players
who are question marks if they don't want to roll the dice, because Cole
Anthony is not a guy that was ever gonna enter the max contract discussion.
And so if you're not there or close to it, are they going to
sign what I would deem more reasonable or team friendly extensions than maybe you would
have assumed that they got because of how restrictive free agency has almost become.
It has become more repressive just because teams don't seem to want to engage aggressively.
I mean, look what happened to PJ. Washington this year. I
wonder if that is a signal, and like what that may end up doing
is kind of creating I hesitate to call like the I don't know you mentioned
Cole Anthony, but like Danny Avdia, you know, signed another deal that
was like, that's not the kind of deal that would have gotten signed,
you know a few years ago, just because it is around it's mid level
territory and you know, someone like him and PJ. Washington is what made
me think about this. You know, those guys probably get advised or have
been advised in the past and just like just get to free agency, get
to restricted free agency, and like it's only gonna take one idiot. You
know someone is gonna someone's gonna overpay you because you got thirty chances in theory.
You know, not everybody has cap space, but like someone just let's
get out there and see and worst case will just come back, and now
maybe it's like it's a little bit more of almost like a baseball setup where
a lot of teams it's totally different rules. But like you know, the
Atlanta Braves, for example, we may just I may have just alienated all
of our audience because nobody cares. But there are teams that just pay long
term deals at like a football team, at like way less annual value to
lock up young prospects. It's like, you get a nine year deal that's
going to pay you one hundred and twenty million, whereas if like this guy
hit free agency when he's twenty seven, he might sign a four hundred million
dollar deal. But you just don't know. And guys are taking these for
the security. And so maybe the Avidiyas and the Cole Anthony's are just like,
I'm going to take this, you know, this life changing money now
because I'm not sure there's going to be an idiot out there that's going to
overpay me in free agency if I wait that long, right, And even
I'm also wondering, and this is from the team end, where the denni
Avia extension I think would be a good one just because that number is sort
of oh I get like Denny Avia wanting long term security. But this also
is the Wizards. Oh the cap is going up and we're going to get
this deal that should be still movable. Is a nice matching piece? Is
this also? Look at what the Spurs just paid Zach Collins. Do we
see any pullback from the teams here on extensions where yeah, like you'll always
offer the Nie Smiths whatever he just got, but like, would you see
the Avia extension of the Zach Collins extension once we know how much the cap
has actually gone up? Once the TV deal is signed and you're not dealing
with infury, Oh, there could be all this growth. Yes, it's
projected to be this, but it might just go up more or it's going
to go up x amount year over year because they're going to smooth it out.
Once you have that numbers smoothed out and you know what you're working with,
Do maybe see teams pull back because it's not as much as a mystery
that could be something else to model it. Yeah? Yeah, no,
I mean again, we're gonna need another couple of years at least to really
sort of see what the new CBA is gonna change about how we got some
signs already, but I'm really interested because you just never know, you know,
like when, for example, you know, a couple of cbas ago,
when it's like, we got to keep these small market teams from losing
their superstars, so let's give them the option to you know, extend early
and go out longer. And then Anthony Davis is like, no, no,
no, this is gonna go the other way. There'll be more player
movement because I'm gonna sign this deal and then get out. Like there's just
you never know, let's see good good question. That's spurt some discussions.
That's when it around. It came up when I was doing it, and
I was like, I'm gonna save this because I'd like to actually have someone
to talk to about it other than myself, believe it or not. Glat.
You want to take us to our first bouncing around topic. You want
to talk thought under I have I'm intered in the Thunder. Look, we
talked about Wemby on a podcast, so we're not allowed to talk about the
Thunder because we were accused of not liking Chet Home Grind yeah somehow, because
we like Wemby. But so I am gonna I am gonna talk about Chet
a little bit. Please use please use this thunder segment as a launching pad
to talk about Wemby. Well, first of all, I feel like all
my Jalen Williams propaganda checks our thunderbox pretty pretty. That's I'm what. I
actually called that one out on Twitter because I found it so egregious that the
logic like, first of all, how insecure are you as a fan that
that bothered you? And two, if you listen to us even once before,
there's probably a good chance that a jail and Williams are Chet Holme Grid
reference came up. There's a chance, I'm there's a great chance if if
you just like pop into any of the last like twenty five podcasts we've done,
it's like fifty to fifty that you will pick a random time anywhere.
There's a really good chance that I will be comparing Jalen Williams to like a
mythological figure of some kind, just like throw a dart at the time stamps
and Gesson. Chance, that's what's gonna happen. But you basically said that
Jalen Williams is who God praised to Yeah, all the time, like verbatim,
I'm sure that's in there somewhere, and Jalen Willims like, I'm busy
sometimes I can't, you know, I can't take everybody's call. So the
Thunder thereforen't just some some like to set a little baseline here. Four and
three through their first seven games, plus one point eight net rating, ninth
in offense, twenty thin defense, only played two road games. This is
not It's interesting that, like those are kind of middling numbers, and I
feel like the narrative coming into the year was, Oh, this is the
team that's going to take a leap, and then there was some pushback to
that. I think we both kind of leaned more towards like let's chill out,
and Sam Presty fueled some of that because he's I think he said,
you know, we might have borrowed some wins or something like that. And
then the other one more recently, I forget who, sorry, who wrote
the piece, but it was like, we have to finish our breakfast is
his latest quote as a way of saying like we you know, let's not
skip steps. So the Thunder are just like a fascinating team because objectively,
when you watch them, it's you see chet Holmgren. It's there to time
stamp it, Dan, where are we We're gonna talk Chet homeward? You
see him looking like, I don't know, this is an interesting Maybe we
should just spend an hour on this. Like what is the comp for Chet
Holmgren. I saw someone say Kevin Garnett recently, and I can't get there
because he was just defensively on another level. But Holmgren's ball handling, especially
in the open court, like he's so comfortable behind the back, like pulled
pullbacks, like you know, overhand crossovers, like real like only stuff.
Guards who have gone to like personal trainers since twenty twenty, like have the
triple package that Chet has right now. And he's seven feet tall or whatever.
He is seven too, so he looks amazing. SGA is a known
commodity at this point. Jalen Williams have just already said he refuses God's phone
calls because he's busy. And then like their numbers are kind of just okay,
And I wonder if part of that is they're playing Chet at center and
they're getting so just a couple more stats. They allow tons of rim attempts
in corner threes. They're twenty fourth and twenty ninth in terms of like they're
ranking in opponent frequency on those shots. That's bad, don't You don't want
that? And they're second to last in defensive rebounding. They're marginally worse on
both the offensive and defensive glass with Chet in the game. And so I'm
just thinking, like, this is what Presty is talking about, because we're
gonna play home grind because look at the guy. You can't not play this
guy. But I think his frame still does limit him. And if you're
gonna be a center, you sort of he's just gonna be overmatched, and
he's gonna be in space a fair amount too. So I don't know if
the Thunder to be able to overcome some of the rebounding issues they have.
So they have, like even with all this talent, like some systemic flaws
that may or may not get fixed. And these are all like big picture
things you have to think about if you're projecting the Thunder as like a you
know, a team that's gonna be in the top four in the West for
like the next five or eight years. So I just think, like what
it's crystallizing for me is that the people that we're pushing back a little bit
on the here comes the leap and we're probably I think closer to right than
wrong. And I think Presty, even though it's like so self serving to
tamp down expectations on a team you're the general manager of, is kind of
right because they are going to play these young guys. They are now built
around, you know, a center who's essentially a rookie, and you're just
gonna have like growing pains and you're gonna have real issues, especially on the
boards and on other stuff. So I just I've I guess my my bounce
around thunder talk idea is that I think think we kind of had it pegged
like pretty pretty close to right, and now they'll probably win fourteen games in
a row and make this look incorrect. But I just wanted to get some
thunder thoughts on the record now that we're like less than ten percent of the
way through the season. Do you have thunder thoughts or just any of that
spark some tangents you'd like to go on. Despite me thinking that Victor Wembernam
will be a good NBA player, I had a lot of thunder thoughts and
they were they're on my list. Chet was among them. I don't really
have much to add to what you said other than I actually have been impressed
with how he how strong he has been with the frame when you look at
some of the guys he's had to battle, and I know a lot of
people they've latched on to the And I didn't interpret yo. First of all,
what Yoga said was funny, saying I think it needs to get fatter.
Chet did not like it. Like did you see Chet's reaction to that?
Oh yeah, he didn't like it. It wasn't he didn't think it
was funny. See, first of all, this Thunder team is the antithesis
of how that organization is run on social media because like they're just ultra buttoned
up and their public were department is notoriously difficult and going to quarter off.
This is why I love that we're not predicated on access with this podcast,
I say something like that where it just seems like they suck when it comes
to providing access to media, and this team just feels like they're all over.
So I love it, and so I love that energy. But I
had said, you know, people were talking about how Chet. Oh look,
Check's getting bounced around again. It was during that Pelicans game. And
so my take is this Chet does need to get stronger. But there's also
just a level of my other this is spicy take, So I'm glad you're
sitting down. Maybe just brace yourself a little. Additionally, some teams have
a front line with Nicole Jokic and Aaron Gordon or Yonis Valentiunas and Zion and
other teams do not. Most do not. Yeah, so that's where I'm
at with but I do He's eventually gonna need to get stronger. I'm wondering
if Jay will coming back and help their defensive rebounding issues at all. I
have been a little bit surprised because I've been by the way this To finish
up on chet defense, are still shocked when he puts the ball on the
floor, like they don't understand what's happening when he spins or when he's going
behind the back. It's kind of evident. In his drives, he's averaging
a point eight eight points per drive, which is one of the ten highest
marks in the league among one hundred and thirty nine players who finished at least
twenty five drives. So when he's shooting twelve of oh no, that's free
throw. He' shooting twelve nineteen on drive, so sixty three point two percent.
And he's at point eight eight one points per point eight eight one points
per drive. That's that's great. Another rookie on this team that's impressed.
Though. Cason Wallace looks he's ready. Defensively, he competes. He's been
very plug and play on the offensive end. And because they have chet and
like we've seen some of the highlight defensive players from him, what they've gotten
from Caseon Wallace, having lou Dort, the fact that they're so low when
it comes to forcing opponent turnovers this year. They were second last year and
now they're twenty third right now, and so it's still early and that can
correct itself. I watch it. I don't know what it is that's different
about how they're running their defense. Maybe it's just a lot of the you
know, you've had Ushman Jang in there more since he hasn't been although he's
injured again. Now you have chet Holmgrin who's a rookie, and you have
Casen Wallace, and you are they're still fouling a bunch as well, and
I wouldn't say they've been like passive on defense. That's just that's something that
helped fuel their defense last year was the ability to you know, Okay,
you can't trust them on the defensive glass, but they're going to force turnovers.
They're gonna get out and run that way. And so while they're fouling
a little bit less, it's not it's disproportionate to how how little they are
forcing opponent turnovers. And so a lot of that might just be well,
look, opponent shots are going into a higher clip round. You already mentioned
some of the issues that they had with the shot profile. That's something that
I think if you're not going to be a good defensive rebounding team and you
want to play as small as they do for certain instance, that's something that
I do think they kind of need to to recapture. Yeah, I think
just to put a put a button on the on the chat thing. Like
he he does play really hard and with like a lot of physicality, Like
he definitely is not avoiding contact. This isn't someone that's getting like pushed He
he's trying to push around just as much as he's being pushed around. So
like I think in terms of his approach, he's doing all you can ask
of him. It's just like they also just really play, you know,
a bunch of wings next to him. There's not like anybody, you know,
Jalen Williams I think plays a lot of four for them and that's like
so it's not all on him. But but he I think also he's just
doing what he can do with this, Like he's he like attacks off the
dribble like you say, it's not just like he's not you know, he
can sidestep, he has that, he can spin, but he does like
lower the shoulder sometimes. So I think if he gets any stronger at all,
like maybe then he's just I don't know, maybe he is Kevin Garnett.
We'll see. We are very close to needing to have a conversation about
Josh Giddy. I don't think we're there yet. And maybe some of it
has to do with they are unions a little bit differently this year, where
we've seen a lot more Jay dubb as kind of being an orchestrator for bench
heavier mobs rather than Giddy. But the ineficially doesn't look great. You know
how last year I would always say, I only ever see the good Gave
Vincent games, So I'm convinced that Gabe Vincent is really great. I only
ever see the good Josh Gitty stretches. I think that's clear because I look
up under this year I do. I just only ever see him, like
I forget. It's probably against Golden State. Yeah, it was against the
Warriors. So he had like four or five just head down drives in a
row where he scored was just like and getting all the way to the basket.
Wow, he was making difficult shot. That's the thing, and that's
why he has like forty four percent true shooting. And that's you know,
it's not gonna work. But I only ever see good Josh Giddy plays,
and so I don't. I just refuse to. I don't believe that the
math is real. That's what I'm saying. It's fake. The numbers are
fake. He's not one of the worst, at least a shooters in the
league. Let's take another victory lap. I'm gonna take us to the Minnesota
Timberwolves, who we were both. We both hit the over on them this
year, right we did? And do we both You had them on your
list too, well, but I was gonna probably I was gonna skew negative,
so I was gonna contradict myself. But I would love to go on
this victory lap with you first. Okay, so they are good. They've
they beat the Celtics, they beat the Nuggets, and uh, I did
not watch the Nuggets game. But it's become pretty clear people in discord,
we're talking about it. They are giving Denver just defensive problems by saying,
hey, we're gonna park like Karl Anthony Towns will be on Yo Kich and
then we'll have Rudy Gobert on the back line and that's how we'll come things
up. This team, though, is now first in points allowed per possession
on the defensive end, not something that I would have necessarily predicted looking at
their roster. Their transition defense thanks to an apathetic Karl Anthony Towns can still
be shaky, but it's improved since Shane McDaniels has come back. They lead.
They have the league's best half court defensive rating by a mile. It
is not even it's not even close. Right now, they're allowing like point
eight one points in the half court and the next closest one I believe is
the Clippers, and they're allowning like point eight five or something, and so
it's just they've absolutely killed it there. A big part of that is because
Rudy Gobert. I don't I haven't thought about awards, but he's in the
defensive Player of the Year race right now. Like opponents are scared again when
they're getting into the lane and he's all over the place too, if you're
kind of watching him off the ball with the way that yes some of the
teams like, look, he was on christops for a lot of the Boston
game when they were playing out Horford as well, and he's pulled out from
the paint and he's like at the speed. It's just a different player that
we see in this year. Even on offense. I think that he's been
he's been better, So I don't know if it's an issue of him being
healthier, more comfortable both. It's a big deal for the Timberwolves. They
are they're no longer fouling like wild and that's been a big deal. They
are getting a little lucky on opponent threes. Opponents are shooting like thirty two
point three percent or whatever on threes per cleaning the glass. That's you know
that's going to go up. But I think that the bigger development is Rudy
Gobert. It's also nas Reed, by the way, incredible at both ends.
He has just been The floor game is still there. He can give
you the occasional post up. He's hitting his above the break threes. He's
looked really good in basically every single defensive situation that I've seen him in.
The rim protection started improving last year. It's held served for the most part
this year. There's and then Anthy Edwards. We have to talk about this
is I don't know how to frame it, and everyone we go back to
that fourth quarter with the Celtics. The stuff he's doing on defense, and
it's for pockets of time, probably because he shoulders so much of a burden
on offense. It's special stuff like this is someone who could make an All
Defense team in any given season. I don't know if he'll ever like hold
it for a long enough stretch to be mentioned in that, but if the
if the Wolves are gonna have the best defense in the league this year or
top three, he'll be It'll be Rudy Gobert and then Jane McDaniels depending on
it's just because he hasn't played as Anthony Edwards will get residual mentioned there,
but he is. Some of the rotations he has made around the baskets,
some of the gaps he has shot on closeouts, and then just we've always
known that he can kind of lock down in certain one on one situations.
We saw him really going after Jalen Brown Jason Tatum in that Boston game.
I think what is and this will lead into some concerns with them. The
offense has not looked great. This is Anthony Edwards has been really good,
but I do think the dual big setup it does not allow him to get
to the basket as much and he's kind of needed to offset that. By
one, he's just hitting a ton of his off the dribble threes. Donovan
Mitchell, Jason Tatum, and Luka Doncic are the only players who have hit
more off the dribble threes to start the season. Edwards is still shooting fifty
four plus percent on his drives. I'd probably like to see him take fewer
ultra long twos, but he's hit some really tough runners in lieu of the
rim rim stuff, and that's kind of how he's adapted. And he's thrown
some really just great nifty kickouts. The lie dribble playmaking I think is still
on the come up. Aside from him though, and they are like nos
Reed's been a bright spot, even Rudy Gobaert a lot of the times.
Offensively, the offense is twenty fifth in three point at ten to right.
They're not getting to the rim nearly enough. This is a team. I
know they're not necessarily built for it, but when you have Anthony Edwards and
Jane McDaniels and even like even Riego Bear and Carlett, like you can run
after getting a defensive rebound. It's not illegal, like you can you can
get out and run, So try doing something like that. And maybe this
still has a lot to do with the the newness. And I do think
if they did push the ball a little bit more off the defensive boards,
that would address some of the absence of rim pressure here. And then two
things is the final notes the I've gotten. I very much enjoyed seeing nas
Reeds, slow Moo and Anthy Edwards play together. They are just like they
are, and I would like to see the three of them play with Jade
McDaniels. More's he's into, you know, as he's been back longer.
They're forcing turnovers like crazy when those three on the court. The Timberwolves are
forcing turnovers on twenty percent of opponent possessions, which is just ludicrously high.
And the final note here, and maybe the most important note, despite all
the good things we're saying, Karl Anthony Towns has been dog shit to start
the season. I'm not making a personal attack at him. I want to
see him play really well. I think he can be a fantastic player,
but his three point volume needs to come up. They need him to be
more aggressive, not just launching threes, but going after smaller players. The
defensive issues are always going to be there, but he's just like so often
caught off balance at like even more than usual. I don't know if something
else is wrong there. We're getting to the point where he makes thirty six
million this year. Who wants to pay him the four year, two hundred
and twenty three million dollar extension that kicks in next season. And if you're
the Wolves, the fact that moving Karl Anthony Towns might be necessary to help
your offense is just mind melting because of he's supposed to be that outlet,
and so that's just I know it's early, but that's what I'm watching because
the path to them becoming appreciably better on offense based off how everyone's playing right
now is Karl Anthony Towns just finds that gear and maintains it, or they're
able to find someone who values Karl Anthony Towns enough to send them players that
might help them get there. Yeah, so I want to talk about that.
I think I just talked for like eighty minutes. No, no,
no, and like as as you talked, I was like, well,
there goes my point, there goes my point. But I was so I
was gonna be a little more bearish on Minnesota because that number one defense is
it's like you you mentioned the stat they are get they are lucky in three
point opponent three point percentage. That's the third lowest market in the league.
Last year, they were twenty third in that stat upon a shot something like
thirty seven point three percent last year on threes, which are appairly what it
means they're due. They're doing right exactly. It's fairly well established that that's
mostly luck. Some teams tend to do it year over year. But that's
pretty it's pretty iffy, And just to underscore it's like you led with it.
They've beaten Denver and Boston. You know who else has beaten Denver or
Boston? Nobody? Minnesota has both of them. But in those games.
I have the numbers here because I just I couldn't believe it. Denver shot
eighteen point two percent from three in that loss. Not good. Boston shot
twenty eight point two percent from three. So like, that's just illustrative of
the fact that they've mastered the Wolves have mastered phantom three point defense, or
they've been getting a little lucky. You hit that. I'm not going to
delabor it. I think Minnesota is good. We've said it for a while.
I think that defense is not going to hot take. The Wolves will
not finish with the best defense in the league. The top five. R
Ruby Gobert is playing, and that's the thing, right, they have Rudy
Goberrett, they have Jane McDaniels. We all agree. If you watch Anthony
Edwards like move around for five seconds, you say that guy has the tools
to be an incredible defender. So they're sixty percent of your first unit.
You know, Conley knows where be he can't He's in his twenty millionth year,
so whatever, and Towns is just bad, but there is so yeah,
top five should seem plausible. I just wonder if Edwards can stay locked
in like he was, like he can be for stretches. I wonder if
Gobert still really has it or will sustain it. And I wonder if Towns
is like hide able enough. But so the Town's thing is the most interesting
issue here because as I was watched, I rewatched the fourth quarter against Boston,
and all I could think about was, in addition to my god,
Anthony Edwards is gonna is trying to just like take everyone's head off on both
ends. He basically assaulted Jason Tatum and got to jump all out of it
late in that game. It was unbelievable. Is that Towns like is just
And it may be it's mostly situational because you can't put him near the basket
because Rudy Gobert is there, and if you put a smaller guy on him,
you there, so he can't go post up and exploit his that way.
Rudy Gobert is there so now you have a really really highly paid pick
and pop power forward that can't guard anybody, and like what do you do
with this guy? So it made me realize it just there's this idea I've
always had of like Towns objectively is ridiculously talented, Like he has his early
career numbers, you know, stack up against almost anybody in terms of like
the twenty ten stuff and the three point shooting and all this other stuff.
But then it's like if he can't fit, So is it on Minnesota for
putting in him in a position where like so many of his skills are marginalized,
or is it that he actually just is not someone that you any team,
any team should ever pay what he's making because he just you know,
before Gobert was there, there was plenty of Towns criticism, and that had
more to do with like can he defend and what happens to him in like
high stakes games? Why does he like lose his like grip on reality.
So I just it's it's tough because he's stuck. Like if you go trade
for Karl Anthony Towns, now that salary's coming with him, like there's nothing
to do about it. So now everyone's talking about, well, the Wolves
can't pay all these guys, and you've got to break up your centers,
and towns is the most likely got to be traded. I just wonder if
it's gonna have to be Gobert because you can't trade towns because teams are going
to see what he's doing and realize, like, well, he's not getting
better. He's deep enough into his career where he sort of is what he
is. We can change his situation. But then if he's our best player,
which he should be, if he's making the money he's making, we
turn into the Timberwolves of like the late twenty teens, and we you know,
make a play in game once in a while. Like I just I
think almost by default, the way the Timberwolves get out from the financial quagmire
that they're gonna be in soon enough is almost maybe not going to be to
trade towns because you sort of like can't do it for positive value. Well,
so my pushback there would I think the fact that he's twenty seven and
some of the Harbingers are just, oh, he's shooting twenty six and a
half percent on wide open threes, and you know, even Chris Finch said
those shots are eventually gonna go in, and having someone with his ball skills
and shooting like that is that didn't just go away, and we've seen moments
of it where he gets ultra aggressive, puts the ball on the deck.
I don't know. You pose an intersering question whether is there like a John
collinsification of Karl Anthony Towns here because they've marginalized him with the WACHA. However,
he's still post in twenty seven plus usage this year and the opportunities there
for him to get volume, he needs to be more aggressive with it.
So I think this is more they can probably share the blame certainly more I
blame Atlanta for what happened to John Collins Hunter. I mean, we're seeing
some kind of issues in Utah too, but they also were playing him with
you to basically two other bigs in Iron Marketing and Walker Kessler. I do
wonder, though, I think more likely than them just deciding to trade Gobert
at this point would be do they pull the John Collins with Kling Anthony Towns,
Like we can get back expirings and we just pivot from there and like
that's the way. I don't I don't think we're there. I want to
make clear Clientthony Town's really talented. I was trying to figure out how we
could get Zach Levine back to Minnesota and a Karl Anthony Towns trade though,
I mean Towns for Zach Lavine would be an interesting challenge trade. But then
Chicago still has vooch. It's like you kind of need a third team that
would are you either sending boochs there? Are you sending town somewhere that's going
to send you enough stuff to get Zach? Could you imagine Zach Lavine on
this team? But that would really test their number one defense by the way,
yes it would. And then and then what like, so Edwards and
Levine are your backcourt now because Edward well, Tommy Edwards, Levine, McDaniels,
go bear, sign me up. You have Kylin Anderson coming off the
bench, coming off the bench. Me if Karl Anthony Towns is your best
player, which he sort of has to be because he's paid, like it,
or second best? Like how good are you? And you know what
I mean? Like that that that's probably Zach Lavine is your best player territory,
right, maybe even worse. I just I don't know. I think
I want again. I'm coming off watching that fourth quarter where Towns just I
fouled out and had like seven points, and I just about his You're catching
me at a low point on town His swings are so wild. Yeah,
So I'm still hopeful, but I do wonder if it's gonna happen for him
on this team. It's just because of the makeup with it. And if
it's gonna happen for him on this team, is it because they got rid
of Gobert, in which case I don't know how that optimizes them for the
short or long term. To be honest with you, that trade, the
go Beart trade, it's just like we're gonna be There's so many fascinating,
like back and forth angles to it, and probably what are they Six games
into the season is not the best time to litigate all of it, because
the whole argument was they didn't get We don't have enough of a sample based
on last year to make any judgments, and certainly six more games isn't gonna
change that. But I yeah, I am. I guess maybe my takeaway
is I'm more fascinated to watch Minnesota this year now than I was before the
season started, because I just like, all I have are more questions even
though they've because like who had them as the best defense in the league through
the you know those first like no chance. I thought I would have thought
their offense. If you said they'll be number one on one end or the
other, I would have said offense, just because I would assume Anthony Edwards
and Karl Anthony Towns were just gonna be amazing. McDaniels is going to hit
half his threes and that that's how it would go. But it just not.
It's not outside the realm because you have Gobert, McDaniels, and Edwards
and so that's three above average defenders in your most important lineup immediately. Then
you can throw SloMo in there, Nikail Alexander Walker for extra disruption, Mike
Conley stills not some SIEV even though he's getting up there in age. Yeah,
so it's really I get what you're saying. I probably would have said
they'll be better on offense just because oh, you have Conley, the Anthony
Edwards leap, and Towns will be healthy. But like it basically would have
come down to Towns, where like, oh, if Town's going to be
healthy in a prominent part of this reportation. Your offense is going to be
better. Yeah, I guess I have like a quick here, And you
mentioned you had talked about him, so I might even just defer to you
a little bit. Jalen Johnson and the Hawks sort of in conjunction here.
I I don't know how you felt about it, but I kind of viewed
Atlanta as having sort of a handful of guys I've I thought of as like
similarly valuable, or guys who had roughly similar positions DeAndre Hunter, AJ Griffin,
Jalen Johnson. Now John Collins is out of the way, and so
all those guys theoretically get more room to explore the space. And I think
I've just been more impressed by Johnson than anybody. Hunters had his moments and
out himitting jumpers, by the way, and you're impressed with them. I
just think, like, first of all, here's here's some analysis. Every
time I see Johnson on the floor, it's like that, like how tall,
how big is that guy? Like he's he looks like a classic power
forward from like twenty years ago, except he moves he does like small forward
things with the ball, so he's fourteen point three points, eight point nine
boards, six and a half percent true shooting, pretty darn good. His
athleticism in the open floor is just like something that John Collins used to provide,
although I think Johnson plays with even more force. Like some of his
drives and some of his his transition attacks are just like, you have to
get out of the way of this guy. He's like that kind of athlete,
which is a really cool wrinkle to have in Atlanta, where like Trey
Young kind of defines how they play, which is more of a finesse style,
a lot of floaters, a lot of lobs, a lot of like
manipulating space. Johnson is just like the shortest distance between two points guy,
So that that's fun. The other thing that's interesting with like the way that
Atlanta is playing, and this affects. This is part of the reason Johnson's
effective more effective is because he's such a good athlete. And Atlanta is cutting
a lot more than they have certainly you know in the Tray Young era.
So they are fourth in the percentage of their offense that comes on cuts this
year and number one inefficiency in terms of points per play. They were seventeenth
last year in cut frequency, and they were worse obviously in points per play.
I think that's the Quinn Snyder effect. I think that's the that's Trey
Young maturation. That's probably Trey Young and de Jontay Murray sort of working more
comfortably together in tandem. I just like, if you're spinning this forward,
I guess maybe this is just a question. I'll throw to you and you
can give me your Jalen Johnson thoughts or Hawk's thoughts. I wonder if maybe
Atlanta should just be the team we view as the fourth best in the East,
and they would have something to say about that, the Sixers. But
you got Boston, Milwaukee. You've I know you've talked about Milwaukee. Uh,
we may need to hit on them at some point, just because the
defense is crazy. Back to plane drop though, right, so now it's
probably all fix now that Brook Lopez is back in a deep drop. Also,
by the way, Adrian Griffin, we've talked about AJ Griffin just now,
so now we can talk about his dad basically getting talked out of his
defensive scheme by certain players. What what on earth made you think it was
smart to do anything different with Brook Lopez on defense. So talk about the
Hawks before we come back to the We don't we even need to, Ok,
Yeah, go ahead, continue with the talks. Well, that's all
on the Hawks. So it's a hot take because the Sixers exist and they
look really good, and they're probably the fourth best team in the East,
but like maybe maybe fifth, let's say fifth. Are they better than the
Knicks? Just because the Hawks with Trey Young offense under himself like he's great
and now they're just sort of playing in a more sensible way that maximizes all
these other talented guys that just wasn't happening before. So I think the Hawks,
I don't want to say fourth. I think the Hawks are the fifth
best team in the East, and they have a chance to get to four
if you know, the Sixers have injuries or the Bucks continue to not know
how to guard anybody. Yeah, I went into my detailed Jalen Johnson thought,
So, I don't want to par it on the Well, tell me
what I got wrong or what what? What else? He gets anything wrong?
I just think I'm wondering if there's like an extra element to his game
where they've had him take some trailer jumpers can you hit? And that opens
up everything else because you're right about the drives. I think defensively, you
mentioned that he plays a lot of like forward stuff, but he also does
a lot of big man stuff where he's like kind of rotating around the basket.
I think when I last I checked, the punt shrte fifty percent against
him at the rim this year. That's good. That's pretty good, and
that would lead itself. I would say it was like, wow, for
someone who's listed was he listened at six' nine six' eight and you're
telling me he looks like he's seven foot Yeah, there you go, So,
uh, we should look at what is Jaleen Johnson listed at. I
didn't even think. I just assumed I knew his height. So he is
listed at six six' eight. Soans Shenanigans you're calling they're doing the KD
here, he's really seven to one. Yeah, he's seven to one,
three forty. That's what he plays like. That's the silver lining of the
John Collins trade is they ruined John Collins's value, but it opened up a
pathway to him getting playing time with Atlanta. I'm just I think I could
buy what you're saying about them in part because I don't know what the pathways
them getting much better on the defensive end right now, but they're sixth in
offense when Trey Young is shooting twenty seven percent on threes. That's the other
thing. And their shot profile is a little bit better. They're getting to
the rim, which I think has a lot to do with you. You
mentioned the ball and body movement goes a long way here, because they were
like bottom seven in rim frequency last year. What is happening with Trey Young?
And I wonder if this is part of the adjustment thirty I think it's
thirty four point one. This is because I wasn't prepared to talk about the
Hawks. I think it's thirty four and a half percent of his baskets are
coming off assists. He has never had more than like twenty seven percent.
Yeah, of his baskets come off asist. So there is a material change
in the way that he's playing. And so now it becomes speaking of the
debate of well, who's least malleable between Luca Harden and Trey it feels like
it's probably Harden. Well, I mean, we'll see. I will say
Harden looked I was trying to get from malleable to like overweight because that White
Clippers jersey was not doing him any favors. He's not in shape. So
he said that too. He was like, damn, I forgot how fast
the game was or something was his quote. I didn't come prepared. We're
jumping all over the place now, I did not come prepared with Clippers thoughts.
Is that gonna be one of your topics you're gonna get to well,
So to wrap up on the Hawks, then we can get to the I
didn't we get we probably should talk about I kind of did already talk about
the Clippers though when we did the hard trade. Yeah, I mean,
yeah, I don't have anything to add. It's been the I don't think
they should start all four of their stars. Is basically where I'm at.
So you get to wrap up. I could buy what you're selling on the
Hawks there. Jalen Johnson though, Yeah, that's the if people aren't watching
the Hawks yet. He's a joy to watch. Can we talk about one
of my favorite small market teams, the New York Knicks and R. J.
Parrott, Please do so. I have so many thoughts on the Knicks
It's just I am. I feel like I should be encouraged, probably by
the start of their season. Relative to their schedule and the play that they've
gotten from Julie Randall and Jalen Brunson, it has not been pretty. I
blame Julius Randall for Jalen brunton struggles, which is probably irrational, but just
like he's seeing Brunton is seeing so much more attention when he gets into the
paint, like he has to rely more on the pull up three, which
is fine, that's actually been going into a fairly good clip for him,
but just like he has to work so much harder inside the arc because Julius
Randall's either taking the wrong shots, not taking enough shots, not taking enough
threes. So I just I blame Julius. It's it's also Josh Hart,
but it's it's on Julius Randal. I'm just prepared to blame him for everything.
R J. Barrett looks really good this year, and that's without being
hyper efficient. Some of the advanced metrics are coming around on him, but
he's still He's shooting a career high sixty five percent at the basket. He's
getting there less sixty five percent of the baskets not especially high, but it's
closer to league average this time. That's a great development for him. His
drives, he's not shooting too well on them, but he's been getting in
some of those those runners, some of those flow He's at fifty four and
a half percent on floaters. I think six of eleven was the number I
had written down. I think what I've been most impressed by. There's the
three point shooting, for sure, something that he's getting to the corners more.
He's at fifty two point four percent on spot up threes overall, sixty
two percent from the corners, and then twenty five percent above the break,
and so that is something to monitor. He has gotten a lot better,
I feel like with his decision making as a live dribble ball handler. The
passes there are a lot better when you look at some of the ones that
he has thrown this season. He's getting better at making quicker decisions from a
standstill to keep the ball moving, and he's he's also getting better at just
putting defenders on his hip and maintaining his dribble overall, and it feels like
real growth. And then the knicks when they're when they play him. We
all know about the RJ plus bench mobs, like when you just play him
without Brunson and Randall. Right, now filter it for that, the Knicks
are a plus nine point seven points pro and possessions. Uh, and there's
some I think there's some room to kind of I don't know what the word
would be here, but like, let's get more of RJ, Barrett and
brunts in without without Randall units is something that could really be super effective for
this team. I'm wondering if we're starting to see like is this the turn
for RJ? And if it is, I think that increases the urgency with
which you need to move on from Julius Randall. I don't want to frame
everything, well, no, I'll frame it this way because I don't want
to make everything about dumping on Julius Randall. It increases the urgency with which
you need to make the decision to choose between them. Where it's let's capitalize
on RJ's trade value once the right Starbucks or find a way to get Randall.
It's it's weird because the Knicks are still so reliant on the all NBA
version of Julis if he's not that guy. This is a substantially worse team.
I'm wondering if RJ is now approaching the point where can he bridge some
of that gap. I don't think he's there from a shot creation standpoint,
when you're looking at the levels from where he scored and how he scores.
But he's a more I don't know, it's not complete. His his offensive
bag is deeper and more polished than it's ever been. I think he's twenty
three, Like I know this only twenty three. I know we do this
with Jason Tatum as like a joke. I was like, God, he's
so good and he's only seventeen or whatever. But like, I think the
so Barrett just to you're right, Like he's never had a higher assist percentage
and he's never averaged more points per shot attempt. A lot of that,
I think you hit it. He's never taken a larger share of his shots
from corner as corner threes than he is this year. So some of it
is just like whether it's he's being told this is where you need to shoot,
or he's just getting there on his own. The shot diet, even
though the rim attempts being down is not great, just is better and he's
just more comfortable with the ball. This is such a This is so illustrative
of how like he's five, this is his fifth year, and I think
we've not just you and I, but like the NBA discourse has like raised
Barrett to heights and like buried him six different times in the four years before
this one. And he's twenty three, and so it's just a reminder of,
like, yeah, sometimes it takes way longer than anybody wants it to
for us to get a handle on what kind of player this guy's gonna be,
you know it just like and so from the Knicks perspective, maybe this
maybe his new deal or not new, but maybe the Deally sign like looks
really great because we're having the conversation now of how do we get Julius Randall
out of his way? And he's gonna and he's not maxed, so like,
I I don't know. I think that's my takeaway from it is like
it's really hard to have a high draft pick who comes in as a teenager
and is expected by his third year to just give us a really clear picture
of what he's gonna be and what he'll be good at and what he won't
be good at, and it's just like it never happens. It almost,
I mean, like it just doesn't happen. You have to It takes five
years, six years times, and the guy's still in his early twenties,
and so like, you know, that cuts a couple of ways. Like
for Barrett, it's like, oh no, he's not gonna be like just
okay, potentially he might be a lot better than that. And for someone
like Anthony Edwards, who we just talked about, it might be let's not
evaluate what he is now, let's wait till he's twenty five and then really
see what's possible. You know, the impatience thing is so hard to avoid
because you know, if you're gonna evaluate R. J. Barrett at any
point, like last year, the year before whatever, you just have to
go with what he'd done to that point and praise him or or bury him
or whatever. But now it's it's clear that you know, even this isn't
his close to his like final form, right, he's just like kind of
smoothing the edges off a little bit, and he's still nowhere near what he's
gonna be. It's just it's hard to think that way when we have to,
you know, rank everybody and do winners and losers of this, and
like who's disappointing and all that stuff. You're also you gravitate more towards the
players who have been all over the place, whereas if you're consistently bad or
like incrementally improving. His role and place within this team has changed so often,
and I will as much as you could say if they could have put
a better ecosystem around him, maybe he would be better. By now,
He's never once been good enough for long enough to say the Knicks need to
tailor their team around him. And he's a weird player. He's like specifically
a hard player to build if like if he's the guy that's a weird that's
a weird skill set to try to build around. But at the same time,
to his defense, it's okay, the Julius Randall emergence was not something
you were banking on. And then it's Jalen Brunson is in town. But
there was the year where theyre didn't have Jalen Brunson and they sucked. And
so he's just been like it's he's bounced around the pecking order and I think
maybe now he's kind of finding his his wheelhouse, and I think his wheelhouse
could be larger if the roster looks different. Now, if I feel bad
that I just said you need to get rid of Julius Randall, even though
I meant I've been on this since his first All NBA team, I thought
that they needed to move him. That's not for the for the sake of
Brunson, Barrett and Julius Randall, they need better shooting at this I am.
You know what, I'm gonna take another victory lap here for all the
Knicks fans that were shitting all over me for saying Dante DiVincenzo didn't solve their
florest basing issues. Their volume for threes overall is fine. They're twelfth to
three point attemp th eight. They're twentieth in above the break attempt rate,
and then dead last in above the break three point percentage. You need threats
from there, you need and you need guys who are willing to get those
attempts up from there. You don't have that, and the players that you
have that from you're not always gonna like Emanuel quickly. Okay, are you
gonna put him in the starting lineup and then just nuke your bench of all
the creation that it has. At the moment, you can say, well,
Quentin Grimes, his volume has probably been fine. Can you nudge him
up a little bit? A lot of it might have to do with the
way they want to run their centers. I think a lot of it comes
back to though they're running the floor is shrinking because of their four and five
spots right now, they really trading obi top and was kind of a vote
of confidence and Julius Randall being really good again this year. I don't know
if the ankle stuff is still bothering him. But even when it's Hartenstein,
when it's but when it's Hartenstein, Randall Mitchell Robinson, like you're dealing with
until you downsize, you're dealing with like two non shooters on the court of
all times. And then even when you are downsizing, like Josh hart Is
still doesn't want to take a three, Like he just doesn't want to do
it the break he doesn't want to do it. Have you got an explanation
for this? Like what is like what Fred Katz? Can Fred Katz please
just get Josh hart He doesn't have like lifetime language in his contract. That
was the Moharkless deal where it was it's like reverse, you have to take
like this many attempts or so I have I have no idea, but that's
it's it's again, it's not just a Julius Randall problem, and it's Mitchell
Robinson has probably been their best player this season. So I'm not even saying
they need to get rid of Mitch. He's probably I think if we're going
through players where if you were acquiring a star the Knicks, Mitchell Robinson is
probably the guy that most teams would want in that deal. Maybe Quentin is
right there. I'm not talking about picks. We all know everyone wants picks.
I would say even more than RJ. Barrett, even more than IQ,
who's about to get paid again. I crapped all over the Mitchell Robinson
contract and it looks like a steal at this point. We got a shirt
apologizing to him. That's a real thing. Yeah, hey, check out
our merch. The merch. Do you want to you have someone? Do
I have a couple more, but do you have any others? We've hit
the hour mark, but I do want to ask you, what does Marjon
Beauchamp need to do, Dan, what's the guy gotta do to play more
for the Milwaukee Bucks, because we need to do exactly what he's doing.
When you're at what does he need to do? Well? Then he needs
to play more than fifteen minutes per game. Uh So opponents are three of
nineteen against him when he is the primary defender. He is shooting fifty seven
point one percent from three. That's good not high volume obviously, and we're
talking fifteen minutes a game, so you know, limited impact of that high
efficiency. Uh So as the Bucks, the Bucks defense is confounding and weird
and and but also like not totally uh the Bucks defense being bad. I
should say for anyone that's that needs that spelled out. Look At no one
on this podcast predicted they'd finish in the top three of points loot per possession.
We were smart enough not to do that. We make so many predictions
it's hard for me to keep them straight. It's possible. I was,
as you said that, I had to think, like, did I predict
that? No, it was it was I predicted that they would finish in
top three off No, I know I realized that now because I I did
a little mental inventory, and I said, I've predicted a lot of ridiculous
things, but that that I don't think was one of them. But if
you know you predicted that would have said. Yeah. So with Dame,
like Dame Damian Little comes with like some defensive propaly you gotta solve, You
got to figure some stuff out if he's your point of attack defender and you
can hide him, but whatever, Like if you play uh Malik Beasley,
it's a lot harder to hide Dame. And so this is where bau Shamp
comes in. So Beasley quick trigger shooter, I get it that that super
valuable. If you have a pick and roll head the attack that is gonna
cause you know, suck multiple defenders into the lane. Having Beasley who's just
like never met a shot that he wouldn't take, which is a good Like
that's a valuable thing. He's not a defender. So when Beasley and Dame
play together without Beauchamp on the floor, the Bucks have a minus eighteen point
four net rating. So like these are obviously small sample caveats, like sprinkle
them everywhere. All this stuff is noisy, And those are including lineups that
have Giannis Brooke Middleton on the floor, marj On with Lillard and no Beasley
are plus thirty eight point five. All I'm saying is every stat you have
small samples and all say Beauchamp should play more. And the eye test who
shows him, which shows him looking super athletic, defending his ass off running
the floor, giving this team another transition threat, just making total sense as
someone who should play more, who can give you stuff on either end of
the court, which virtually no one else as long as Chris Middleton is on
a pitch count can do reliably from the wing. Sorry, pack Con,
I think Beauchamp should get some of your minutes. What else does mar John
Beauchamp need to do. I think he needs to play more. I'll be
disappointed if he does not. That's not like a discussion point, that's just
the I seed the floor to you. Well, I think it's fair even
because like you can put him and they have on Tyre's MAXI on Jalen Brunson
and Tree Young and it's not always. Actually I would say most of the
time it might not work out that well for you. It gives you more
of a fighting chance than having Damian Lillard have to be in those or Molieue
Beasley, and I'm probably with you. I've I actually wrote something where I've
wondered if they should move away from their starting five and if if Chris Middleton's
locked in there when he's healthy, is it I think Mollie Beasley shot the
ball well enough overall to stay there, but for what they need, it
feels like even Crowder might be better than be I mean, defensively, he's
definitely better, but you don't want him defending smaller players. He might just
be better than Beasley in that role, or say as someone who can help
cover up for like Chris Middleton looks coold on the defensive end, Like there
I can see I can see flickers and flashes and extended pockets of him.
Okay, Chris Middleton on offense, Fine, No, I don't see it
on defense anymore. And so mar John Bochamp them not having to get rid
of him. The Damian lillardial suddenly becomes massive. Yeah, he, I
mean he's I will be surprised if he doesn't have. I know, like
a lot of Bucks fans have been clamoring for it for a long time,
but like you know, I would be really surprised if he doesn't have a
pretty significantly increased role, you know, two months from now, if he
and if he doesn't, I I hope it's because Beasley is shooting like fifty
percent from three and Connitton is, you know, looking like he did four
years ago. And did you took issue with Adrian Griffin changing the because so
I clipped his interview with ESPN and threw it on Twitter, and I actually
posted as more of a I appreciate that he realized he was so wrong so
early and then made the pivot. But people reacted, I'm not I'm not
saying you. People were dunking on him, like what an idiot need to
be told to do by by his players, And I more so took it
as someone who didn't think he was the right higher and push comes to shove,
I probably still don't believe it. I was like, oh, okay,
this is good. He's listening to his players and the defense has looked
better with and look part of one of the games came against the Knicks that
we've seen with them, and going against the Knicks offense right now, you
know it's it's it's not much. I mean, like they take a victory
lap on the Knicks offense getting a lot worse. But we don't need to
do that. They don't have the space saying to like, you don't even
need brook Lopez on the foard to defend them well at this point. So
but I took it as a Okay, this is good that he's doing.
But I'm assuming you took it the same way, but you thought it was
ridiculous that it was ever in doubt. That was a classic case of like
fixing what wasn't broken. We understand what brook Lopez does defensively, like that's
and and and like to be a great at the thing that he's great at.
He's like, why are you messing with it? I get it,
like you're trying to compensate, probably because Lillard is there. You're trying to
force more turnovers. I think a lot of the explanation and the Bucks just
really I think the Bucks might have been thirtieth in opponent turnover percentage last year.
They're at the bottom, and so I get it, like trying to
fix that, but also brook Lopez is just a phenomenal drop defender, Like
how many how many different Zach Lowe articles like chronicling Lopez's mastery of like the
pick and roll dance where he's guarding both guys at the same time and he
can close like come on, like I love, I love the quick willingness
to scrap a plan that's not working, but like that plan didn't need to
be drawn up in the first place. I don't think, do you think,
in the name of experimentation, let's bring him higher up, try and
force turnovers or cover up for Dame a little bit more? I know,
because I know part of it is like we don't have Drew anymore, and
Drew is like the king of the rear view contests. So you can have
Lopez in a deep drop and Drew is just gonna bother the guy chase over
the screen, bothering from behind, and so the drop doesn't really hurt you
because everyone's afraid of the of the all world guard defender. That's like breathing
down your net from behind. And then Lopez can just guard pick and rolls
on his own too, and Drew's not there. Damian Lillard is not Drew
Holiday defensively obviously, so I can understand like having some concerns about it,
but my default would just be Let's try the same thing that has worked really
well and won us a chance, like contributed to us winning a championship,
and then if that doesn't work, we'll mess with it. But let's at
least start from the Let's start with the thing that uh has been supremely effective
and plays to the strengths of this kind of unusual defensive center. That's now,
because you're you think that Marjon Bouchamp is going to be an MVP.
Yes, here's here's an actual question for you. The bulls call and say,
we will take Marjon Bouchamp and Pat Connaton for Alex Caruso. Oh,
sorry, marj On, you're out. You probably have to make that because
of what you're giving up, some spacing on offense, because Alex Caruso is
like the Josh Hart of guards when it comes to not wanting to take Well,
I get so, but I think you have to do that. But
he's also the Alex Caruso of defensive guards. Afford to consolidate your rotation again,
Well, I yeah, if you're only playing bullshamp fifteen minutes, you're
already you're not really consolidating anything. Just give yeah, no, I take
your point, like the Bucks can't keep trading like four guys for one.
But uh if I would hope lucky when you're looking at the like the buyout
market, because they coul still sign guys who make less than the mid level.
So if you want to look at maybe Reggie Bullock decides to I don't
know why he's on the Rockets right now, so well, yeah, I
wouldn't say. The fact that even in the I guess they didn't need him
in the next game, but like him only playing thirteen minutes in the next
game was sort of mind blowing to me. But I'm with you. I
expect this role to get bigger. Can we talk about the Pacers? I'd
love to. All right, well, then let's move on. You want
to talk about the Mavericks. The Pacers might have the best NBA offense of
all time, and I just watched and there I don't even think they're They're
not first inefficiency A. No, this Sixers have the best offense in the
league right now? How about that? Do you have a Sixers thing?
I don't have a say. I'm almost out of topics, but every team
we talk about I want to talk about. Let's leave the Pacers. The
Sixers look freaking awesome. I'm a massive addition by subtraction team. But let's
talk auditioned by subtraction. He wasn't even playing well. They subtracted him before
the season started. Fair enough. Uh So the Pacers just they are all
over the place on offense. It's frenetic. Their third and average possession time,
second points per possession. They're eighth and half court offensive rating, which
is a big deal because they were pretty bad there last year. Jalen Smith
has been like a delight from three, and he's grabbing every offensive rebound that's
out there. Aaron Ne Smith might be on one of the league's best contracts.
All of a sudden, he has some ball skills. He's shooting well.
We know he can defend up. Buddy Healed has looked good. This
is all happening where Bennanick Mathern has not had the greatest start to the season.
But in quotations in my notes I have doesn't even fucking matter because of
how good this team is on the offensive. And the answer is you answered
it, grant, No, it does not. I mean, long term,
it certainly matters. Miles Turner career year from three right now career year.
On the defensive glass, the team is still getting slaughtered when Haliburton doesn't
play, but the offense during those stretches is above average. I don't.
I think even now, as I speak at one am exactly my time,
Obi Toppen is still running around somewhere on the court. There's not a game
happening, but I think he's still running around somewhere. The thing I wanted
to highlight, aside from the fact that Tyre's Haliburton is still that guy,
I know he's been being cooked and targeted on defense. Tyres Haliburton is currently
averaging one point five to eight points per ISO possession. He's not using a
ton per game, but he's shooting sixty seven percent in isolation effective field goal
rating of eighty three point three. Dearon Fox is the only player averaging more
points per isolation possession than Tyre's Haliburton right now, and Fox, by the
way, he's he's on track to have a year. I hope, I
hope that ankle injury doesn't mess with him. Those guys should play together.
They could get a lot done together. I totally I didn't even that didn't
compute when I was even looking at the U, I wanted to focus a
little bit though, and of course get any thoughts that you'll have on the
Pacers. On the Bruce Brown fit, I've enjoyed it for the most part.
He's shooting forty seven percent on threes, thirty one percent from above the
break, sixty four percent from the corners. There's I can't remember which game
I was watching, but the Pacers had basically it was him and Turner plus
the bench. Aaron E. Smith was out there with them hard and Brown,
Turner and Healed, and that lineup just looked like it was gonna annihilate
opponents until the end of time. And so I'd like to see more of
that. The Pacers offensive rebounding rate right now is improving by nine point three
points with him on the court. He is not grabbing them, but when
you kind of look, he's lifting from the corner and it's making it easier
on the Pacers. Laikah Jalen Smith spot minutes with Isaiah Jackson or whoever,
making it easier for them to crash the the offensive glass. He's hitting over
sixty percent of his running jumpers. The Pacer spacing looks great on him.
Surprise, surprise. I think he has even more space to work with generally
in the lane than he did when he was on the Nuggets. He's not
doing as much as a passer, but the center for the center floor playmaking
is still very much there and remains special. And the thing that I feel
like I've noticed, and maybe this is just has a case of you know,
they played Charlotte, They're overreacting to him on the three point line.
They are treating him like an actual threat, and that has helped open the
driving lane. He's shooting fifty six point three percent on drives, which is
how he's gonna make a lot of his passes. And so I'll wrap up
on the Bruce Brown fit with this, seventy one players have finished as many
drives as Bruce Brown. Only three others are shooting fifty five plus percent with
an assistrate north of ten and a turnover rate south of five. Tyrese Haliburton,
Kyrie Irving, and Terry Rosier. I love the Bruce Brown for it.
He's not had this great impact on their defense. He's been overmatched in
a lot of the matchups he has, and the defense has been worse with
him on the court. But I think that just says the quality of the
players that he's going up against in that starting lineup hass to face or their
most important players have to face a lot of the time. The Pacers,
true to what everyone I think at all geeks thought heading into the season,
they have been one of the most entertaining watches of the season. Yeah,
that was a given. I want to ask you because in the lead up
to this season, and I think probably when we talked to Kaitlyn Cooper about
this, there was this same odd that Kaitlyn Cooper had something written one either
counter proving anything I just said, where it's like, actually, Bruce Brown's
not lifting from the corner and he doesn't help their offensive rebounderis at all.
There's probably good chance that she's either said everything I did, which fine,
or you're wrong, and she'll tell you why. I've read so much of
her. She's been publishing a lot lately, so I haven't read it all,
but I've read a lot of her stuff, and I'm trying not to
like latch onto anything she says because it's just you don't want to co opt.
But she's so smart and great at what she does. It's hard not
to well. One of the things she said that I really bumped on,
and this isn't like an opinion of hers, it's basically a correct assessment of
what the pacers think is that Matherin is gonna start. Healed is not,
and that's because they need to figure out what they had. Like, you
know, it made a lot of sense, and I bumped on it because
Matherin seemed to me like his ceiling is as a really good six man like
peer score that's not good at a lot of the other stuff you need to
round out, like a really good starting lineup on the wing or as a
second guard. And to your point and how Brown has fit well, the
lineups that have Brown and Healed as the wings, whether you have Kneesmith as
the four or Topping at the four, some of these are hilariously effective lineups.
But if you have Healed and Brown on the floor together, the pacers
are plus seventeen point eight and the offense is scoring like one hundred and forty
points per hundred possessions, which actually might be below the pacers. We'll see
figure but it's not. But which is absurd. My favorite it's only fifteen
possessions, but I'm gonna cite it because it's just illustrates a huge sample size
that's more than possessions, that's like an entire quarter, almost at like half
of a quarter. I was like, what team is using sixteen possessions?
Forty the Rick Carlisle, Dallas Mavericks from three years ago, Haliburton, Healed,
Brown, Topping, Turner right, which I think should be the starting
five uh plus plus eighty net rating. That's fun, that's fun in fifteen
possessions. But it's just like, so I get the question buried in all
this is, have you like, is it too obvious that Matherin should just
never start and that should we should just be playing Healed and Brown and on
the wings and probably Topping at the four I like Topping more than Nies myth
and then obviously Turner and Haliburton as your booke NDS, like, has anything
changed about because I thought from the jump like Matherin's should not start, not
over Brown, not Overhealed. I mean, give me nem Hard or whatever
over over Matheren at this point, just turn Matherin, loose off the bench
and say shoot all the time. Against backups. I don't know where you
were on any of that, or if you remember Caitlin saying that that Matherin
was probably gonna be the PACER's pick to start and play a ton have you?
What are your thoughts generally on that? I guess like you're loving Bruce
Brown, so that's easy, But what about the healed piece, doesn't it?
It comes down to what are your aims? Do you care? If
you care more about the bigger picture, it's valuable gleaning as much information good
or bad for Matherne as possible. And I don't think you're putting him.
Are you putting him in a better situation to succeed himself or for you long
term by bringing him off the bench. I don't know the quality of the
defensive competition should go down. But then you're also you know, he's insulated
right now a lot of the time because you're gonna play more minutes than alongside
Tyre's Haliburton along with the I mean, sure Jalen Smith is hitting his threes
now, but like you're guaranteed to play alongside the spacing of a of a
Miles Turner. So I if you're trying to win games. The answer is
Mathern should not be starting right. So I think of all by the way
I was, was it am I was a year or two years too early
on Jalen Smith. I know I was saying Jalen Smith was gonna be really
good. Uh for the Pacers. That must have been during that like seven
game stretch after they traded him he hit his threes, Everyone's like, wow,
yeah, I knew he had it in them. Normal, I guess.
And this will this will it won't sound totally hypocritical and contradictory. It
just will be because I just said, oh r J. Barrett's in his
fifth year. We've jumped to conclusions, and look, look what happens if
you wait. I just never thought Matherin projected to me, based on one
rookie season, as someone that's going to be more than a really like a
of like a spark plug backup. And that's just because like the decision making
is, he's not great at it. He's awesome at getting fouled, he's
awesome at generating his own shots. He's sucks as a catch and shoot three
point shooter. He likes to dribble it first, which is just weird.
To me, So I guess I always just wrote him off as like,
what do the pacers think they're gonna find here? I already know this guy
is going to be a six man, Like what's the point. But you
know, maybe that that is just hypocritical, but that that's where I was
on Matherin. That is going to do it for this podcast. Everybody didn't
mean to cut a short, but I ran into internet issues. We had
about another forty five minutes to go. Grant and I may try and wrap
up later this week. You should have a third episode up at some point
regardless. I'll figure out how to get one up if me and Grant can't
sync up before then. Until next time, though, please remember to rate,
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And until next time, and as always, to shout out to one,
the only, the indelible, the man who would never let my Internet collapse.
At one o'clock in the warning, while we're in the Middle of a
Banger podcast Frank Pila Pina