This is Later with Lee Matthews the Lee Matthews Podcast More What You Here weekday
afternoons on the Drive. Christopher Miller is a journalist who is currently writing about
Ukraine for The Financial Times. He previously led the Court. He was the
leading correspondent in Ukraine for BuzzFeed World and national security reporter for political correspondent for
Radio for Europe and Radio Liberty in Kiev. He his new book is called
The War Came to Us. It's an intimate look at Russia's war on Ukraine
through the experiences of everyday Ukrainians, a people you say you fell in love
with. So let's start there, Christopher Miller, how did your fondness of
Ukraine begin? Yeah? You know, I'd like to say if it was
a fortunate accident that I ended up in Ukraine, because it's not where I
set out to go when I volunteered to be a US Peace for volunteer back
in twenty but it's where I ended up in April of that year and was
quickly sent out or dispatched to the city of bachmut Out in eastern Ukraine,
where I learned Russian and a little bit of Ukrainian and met a whole lot
of really fantastic people who welcomed me as as a part of their community.
I taught in their schools, I worked in their central library. I helped
out with some development projects with the central government there in the town, in
the region. And you know what I found were people who were really interested
in in America and you know what we were doing and were increasingly have you
know, UH would have a lot more in common with us than say Russia.
You know, the Internet was widely available at that point in twenty and
ten, finally after after years of a very slow connection, and so they
were very interested in me and where I had come from. And you know,
that was sort of a way to make fast friends with people. And
many of those people have become very very close friends, much like a second
family. And I've watched them grow up and get married, and in some
cases even volunteer to go to Warnow to defend their country. This was some
time ago before this conflict began, Christopher, but I had a similar experience.
I was out at one of our area lakes and I saw this group
of men fishing off the bank, and I didn't recognize the language. It
sounded like Russian and they started to come my way and I said, are
you Russian? Oh, no, Ukraine. Only one of them. There's
about four of them, and only one of them really spoke English well enough
to make himself understood. But it turns out they were here in this part
of the country going to a Baptist college to learn more about being missionaries to
go back to Ukraine to do their mission work. And it was their day
off, so they were fishing on their day off, and they wanted to
know all about the water in the lake and what kind of fish they could
catch. They were very, very interested in the culture and the agriculture.
I think they recognize that the agriculture in our states very similar to the agriculture
in Ukraine. Well, you know, Ukraine was and has always been referred
to as the bread basket of Europe. Right, They've got this really incredible
black earth that that has just this magnificent effect on pretty much anything you plant
in it. And I think a lot of listeners will probably find it interesting
that Ukrainians absolutely love fishing, much like many Americans, and so you know,
that's no doubt a way to find a quick bond and make fast friends.
Well, let's go back to the beginning, a not so pleasant topic.
Many Americans, I think Christopher Miller and the book is the war came
to us. Many are asking why did Putin do this? Yeah, that
that is the big question I think. And will he continue, you know,
to wage this war and for how long? You know? I think,
I think Vladimir Putin is a smaller man with big ambitions. You know,
these ambitions have led to the the deaths of tens of thousands of people,
unfortunately. And what he, you know, what wants to do is
nothing less than see the destruction of Ukraine. And I think, uh,
you know, the destruction of the Ukrainian people. He has said, you
know, on more than one occasion that he views Ukrainians as essentially a project
of Vladimir Lenin, the founder of the Soviet Union and this manufactured state,
and Ukrainians as essentially Russians that have gone awry. And and obviously this isn't
the case because outlined in my book, there's you know, a long timeline
of of you know, when Ukrainians came about, when the state was founded,
what the birthplace of Ukraine and Russia is, which is actually where I'm
talking to you from here in Kiev, and you know, this is essentially
his project to recreate the Soviet Union, which you know, many experts and
the stories will tell you it just does not exist without Ukraine because it's such
an important piece of that of that union state that that Putin really is,
through his imperialist ambitions, trying to recreate. How is the average Ukrainian grunt
faring through all this? You know, I think most most people are dealing
with it fairly well as well as you can. They understand that this is
a fight for their survival, and when everything is on the line, you're
going to do everything you can to make sure that you wake up tomorrow in
your own home with everything intact, and your family and you're you know,
you're within the borders of your country. You know, after after a year
and a half of of war on this scale, people are tired. There
is a lot more talk now of when will this and how long is it
going to go on for? And it's much more visible. The war is
on the streets here in Kiev and in just about every city across this country.
That's the size of the state of Texas. So this is a large
place with roughly forty million people, and the war is visible in all sorts
of ways. More recently, I've noticed so many wounded soldiers on the streets,
amputated limbs. It's it's, you know, this is it's a really
horrific thing that's happening. You know, everybody is doing what they can.
If they're not taking up arms and fighting on the front lines, you know,
they're they're donating money, they're fundraising for the military, their lobbying Western
partners for more assistance. It's it's very much omnipresent here, and people are
tired, but they're you know, they're they're resolved to see this through to
victory. The book is The War Came to Us Christopher Miller is the author.
And we see these these videos here in our country of drones dropping grenades
on the Russian lines, and they look very effective. How accurate is that
information? Oh, it's bought on. I mean, this is a really
fascinating war in the sense that you know, when when when I go out
to the front line, I'm essentially you know, moving through a trench system
that looks like something out of a Hollywood World War two movie. In many
cases, it's in many ways. It feels like stepping back into into time
and you know, being there in World War One or World War two,
and then you hear this buzz of a drone overhead, and what it's doing
is it's surveilling the battlefield to see where the enemy is, or it's helping
a fifty year old howitzer or even a new newer American howitzer correct artillery fire
on the enemy. And so there's this really interesting mix of old technologies,
new technologies over to the counter technologies. Drones that you might use to film
an overhead shot of your wedding now being used to their lents. Is it
accurate what we're hearing about the Russian troops. They're not motivated, they do
not want to be there. There's any effective leadership at the top. Most
are conscripts who are let out of jail. Yeah, I think you know
to a great extent that is true. And I say that with just a
slight bit of hesitancy, because of course we don't have direct access to the
Russian military. But what we know from captured soldiers, what I read on
these military blog channels, on telegram and social media, is that you know,
the morale among the Russian troops is low. They are taking significant casualties.
They, unlike the Ukrainians, don't know exactly what they're fighting for.
The Ukrainians are fighting for their existence. The Russians are doing the bidding of
a person who sees themselves as an imperial leader. And you know, many
of them, uh, you know, they're fighting, They're fighting a long
way from home. They're not getting significant support and assistance, and so you
know that is all going to have an effect on morale. But at the
same time, many of them are professional soldiers and so they are you know,
taking orders, doing what their commanders tell them, and you know they're
having having some success and in putting up a defense right now against Ukraine's counter
offensive, because you know, they are sticking to their guns, and you
know, there's there's no such mutiny on the front line right now as there
was with this Wagner Mercenary group over in Russia last month, and so you
know they're going to keep being a really difficult army for for Ukraine to beat
back off its land. The war came to us life and death in Ukraine.
It's an intimate look at Russia's war on Ukraine. Through the eyes of
everyday Ukrainians. Christopher Miller is the author. We thank you for writing it
and for joining us today. Thank you for having me with the pleasing,
Thanks for listening to Later with Lee Matthews, the Lee Matthews Podcast, and
remember to listen to The Drive Live weekday afternoons from five to seven and iHeartMedia presentation