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This is Later with Lee Matthews the
Lee Matthews Podcast More What You Here weekday

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afternoons on the Drive. Christopher Miller
is a journalist who is currently writing about

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Ukraine for The Financial Times. He
previously led the Court. He was the

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leading correspondent in Ukraine for BuzzFeed World
and national security reporter for political correspondent for

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Radio for Europe and Radio Liberty in
Kiev. He his new book is called

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The War Came to Us. It's
an intimate look at Russia's war on Ukraine

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through the experiences of everyday Ukrainians,
a people you say you fell in love

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with. So let's start there,
Christopher Miller, how did your fondness of

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Ukraine begin? Yeah? You know, I'd like to say if it was

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a fortunate accident that I ended up
in Ukraine, because it's not where I

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set out to go when I volunteered
to be a US Peace for volunteer back

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in twenty but it's where I ended
up in April of that year and was

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quickly sent out or dispatched to the
city of bachmut Out in eastern Ukraine,

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where I learned Russian and a little
bit of Ukrainian and met a whole lot

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of really fantastic people who welcomed me
as as a part of their community.

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I taught in their schools, I
worked in their central library. I helped

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out with some development projects with the
central government there in the town, in

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the region. And you know what
I found were people who were really interested

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in in America and you know what
we were doing and were increasingly have you

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know, UH would have a lot
more in common with us than say Russia.

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You know, the Internet was widely
available at that point in twenty and

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ten, finally after after years of
a very slow connection, and so they

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were very interested in me and where
I had come from. And you know,

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that was sort of a way to
make fast friends with people. And

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many of those people have become very
very close friends, much like a second

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family. And I've watched them grow
up and get married, and in some

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cases even volunteer to go to Warnow
to defend their country. This was some

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time ago before this conflict began,
Christopher, but I had a similar experience.

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I was out at one of our
area lakes and I saw this group

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of men fishing off the bank,
and I didn't recognize the language. It

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sounded like Russian and they started to
come my way and I said, are

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you Russian? Oh, no,
Ukraine. Only one of them. There's

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about four of them, and only
one of them really spoke English well enough

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to make himself understood. But it
turns out they were here in this part

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of the country going to a Baptist
college to learn more about being missionaries to

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go back to Ukraine to do their
mission work. And it was their day

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off, so they were fishing on
their day off, and they wanted to

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know all about the water in the
lake and what kind of fish they could

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catch. They were very, very
interested in the culture and the agriculture.

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I think they recognize that the agriculture
in our states very similar to the agriculture

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in Ukraine. Well, you know, Ukraine was and has always been referred

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to as the bread basket of Europe. Right, They've got this really incredible

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black earth that that has just this
magnificent effect on pretty much anything you plant

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in it. And I think a
lot of listeners will probably find it interesting

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that Ukrainians absolutely love fishing, much
like many Americans, and so you know,

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that's no doubt a way to find
a quick bond and make fast friends.

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Well, let's go back to the
beginning, a not so pleasant topic.

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Many Americans, I think Christopher Miller
and the book is the war came

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to us. Many are asking why
did Putin do this? Yeah, that

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that is the big question I think. And will he continue, you know,

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to wage this war and for how
long? You know? I think,

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I think Vladimir Putin is a smaller
man with big ambitions. You know,

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these ambitions have led to the the
deaths of tens of thousands of people,

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unfortunately. And what he, you
know, what wants to do is

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nothing less than see the destruction of
Ukraine. And I think, uh,

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you know, the destruction of the
Ukrainian people. He has said, you

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know, on more than one occasion
that he views Ukrainians as essentially a project

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of Vladimir Lenin, the founder of
the Soviet Union and this manufactured state,

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and Ukrainians as essentially Russians that have
gone awry. And and obviously this isn't

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the case because outlined in my book, there's you know, a long timeline

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of of you know, when Ukrainians
came about, when the state was founded,

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what the birthplace of Ukraine and Russia
is, which is actually where I'm

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talking to you from here in Kiev, and you know, this is essentially

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his project to recreate the Soviet Union, which you know, many experts and

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the stories will tell you it just
does not exist without Ukraine because it's such

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an important piece of that of that
union state that that Putin really is,

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through his imperialist ambitions, trying to
recreate. How is the average Ukrainian grunt

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faring through all this? You know, I think most most people are dealing

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with it fairly well as well as
you can. They understand that this is

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a fight for their survival, and
when everything is on the line, you're

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going to do everything you can to
make sure that you wake up tomorrow in

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your own home with everything intact,
and your family and you're you know,

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you're within the borders of your country. You know, after after a year

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and a half of of war on
this scale, people are tired. There

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is a lot more talk now of
when will this and how long is it

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going to go on for? And
it's much more visible. The war is

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on the streets here in Kiev and
in just about every city across this country.

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That's the size of the state of
Texas. So this is a large

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place with roughly forty million people,
and the war is visible in all sorts

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of ways. More recently, I've
noticed so many wounded soldiers on the streets,

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amputated limbs. It's it's, you
know, this is it's a really

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horrific thing that's happening. You know, everybody is doing what they can.

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If they're not taking up arms and
fighting on the front lines, you know,

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they're they're donating money, they're fundraising
for the military, their lobbying Western

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partners for more assistance. It's it's
very much omnipresent here, and people are

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tired, but they're you know,
they're they're resolved to see this through to

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victory. The book is The War
Came to Us Christopher Miller is the author.

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And we see these these videos here
in our country of drones dropping grenades

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on the Russian lines, and they
look very effective. How accurate is that

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information? Oh, it's bought on. I mean, this is a really

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fascinating war in the sense that you
know, when when when I go out

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to the front line, I'm essentially
you know, moving through a trench system

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that looks like something out of a
Hollywood World War two movie. In many

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cases, it's in many ways.
It feels like stepping back into into time

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and you know, being there in
World War One or World War two,

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and then you hear this buzz of
a drone overhead, and what it's doing

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is it's surveilling the battlefield to see
where the enemy is, or it's helping

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a fifty year old howitzer or even
a new newer American howitzer correct artillery fire

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on the enemy. And so there's
this really interesting mix of old technologies,

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new technologies over to the counter technologies. Drones that you might use to film

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an overhead shot of your wedding now
being used to their lents. Is it

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accurate what we're hearing about the Russian
troops. They're not motivated, they do

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not want to be there. There's
any effective leadership at the top. Most

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are conscripts who are let out of
jail. Yeah, I think you know

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to a great extent that is true. And I say that with just a

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slight bit of hesitancy, because of
course we don't have direct access to the

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Russian military. But what we know
from captured soldiers, what I read on

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these military blog channels, on telegram
and social media, is that you know,

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the morale among the Russian troops is
low. They are taking significant casualties.

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They, unlike the Ukrainians, don't
know exactly what they're fighting for.

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The Ukrainians are fighting for their existence. The Russians are doing the bidding of

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a person who sees themselves as an
imperial leader. And you know, many

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of them, uh, you know, they're fighting, They're fighting a long

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way from home. They're not getting
significant support and assistance, and so you

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know that is all going to have
an effect on morale. But at the

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same time, many of them are
professional soldiers and so they are you know,

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taking orders, doing what their commanders
tell them, and you know they're

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having having some success and in putting
up a defense right now against Ukraine's counter

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offensive, because you know, they
are sticking to their guns, and you

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know, there's there's no such mutiny
on the front line right now as there

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was with this Wagner Mercenary group over
in Russia last month, and so you

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know they're going to keep being a
really difficult army for for Ukraine to beat

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back off its land. The war
came to us life and death in Ukraine.

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It's an intimate look at Russia's war
on Ukraine. Through the eyes of

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everyday Ukrainians. Christopher Miller is the
author. We thank you for writing it

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and for joining us today. Thank
you for having me with the pleasing,

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Thanks for listening to Later with Lee
Matthews, the Lee Matthews Podcast, and

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remember to listen to The Drive Live
weekday afternoons from five to seven and iHeartMedia presentation