Imagine a world where all boys were reminded daily to be a leader and not
a follower. Perhaps there would be less young men who would be vulnerable to
group think, mischief, or just easily being led astray. Osborne Lawrence is
one of the fortunate ones who has a dad who did just that. His
father's daily mandra during childhood rides to school, be a leader, not a
follower has become a cornerstone of his approach to life. These words resonate with
him as he navigates the complexities of college life, encouraging him to forge his
own path and inspire others. Oz is not only excelling in his engineering studies,
but also holds leadership roles in the Caribbean Student Association and Alpha Phi Alpha
Fraternity, incorporating He shares how his mother, a beacon of empathy, taught
him the crucial skills of navigating his emotions and respecting other's opinions even in disagreement.
He also fondly recalls his uncle's greeting respect to the greatest aspect, which
continually reinforces his sense of self worth and ambition. While it is evident that
his familial support system has been vital in his personal and academic development. He
is also fortunate enough to receive additional support from his chosen family of fraternity brothers.
As credits the guidance of his high achieving fraternity brother Brian with providing him
a blueprint for balancing academic success with a fulfilling college experience. Life can't just
be about taking up your book from money. Sometimes you need a friend like
Brian to remind you that you can do anything you put your mind to.
As a story is sure to make you experience introspection, laugh, reminisce on
the nuances of growing up Jamaica, and provide insight into the importance of men's
mental health. So grab your tea, coffee, or a glass of wine
and let's talk to Things. Hello everyone, Welcome to the Let's Talk the
Tings podcast, where we discuss personal growth, travel, music and wellness while
encouraging you to live fearlessly and fabulously. I am your host, Ash and
this week we are Talking to Things with the internal operations Coordinator of the University
of Maryland's Caribbean Student Association and the secretary of the Iota Zeta chapter of Alpha
Phi Alpha Fraternity, Osborne Lawrence, Hi, Oz, how are you?
How good? How are you? I am? Well, thank you.
I'm sure your glad finals are done and you're free. Definitely, yeah,
And I appreciate the opportunity to be on here with you as well. Definitely
excited. Absolutely, I'm excited to have you. So, speaking of excitement,
you know, I like a little laughter, you know, just to
break the ice. So when we have guests, I begin each episode with
our listener's favorite segment, and it's called that Nason Safe. So for this
segment, I'm going to read messages or social media posts that listeners sent in,
and if you think it sounds crazy or a bit concerning, you would
respond that Nason safe and explain why. And if you agree, just say
you agree and explain why. Sounds good? Sounds good? All right?
So the first person said, I took a girl on a date on my
motorcycle, but instead of riding up to the parkway, she kept asking me
if we could just ride back and forth on the same road. Turns out
she wasn't really interested in me. She just wanted to ride past her excess
house so he could see her on the back of my motorcycle with another guy,
Oh no, that's definitely no sense of the girl gave him a six
for a nine. Right. Oh my gosh, I feel bad for Bro.
I mean she it makes me wonder, I guess want to ask you,
as a man, how are you able to like navigate girls that are
really interested in you versus girls that might be using you for something where in
this case, like just to be seen. Right, Honestly, I really
think it's really just trying all error. Like people in general, especially you
know, if you're on the dating scene or whatever, I think you really
just have to give it a go and see how it is and try to
feel the situation out, because you're never really gonna know until you really take
the time to get to know that person. So I think that that's where
that vulnerability comes in to where you really just have to kind of not not
like put down all your walls immediately, but you know, kind of try
to open up so they can, because you can't expect someone to open up
if you don't do the same. That's kind of where that first step comes
in to kind of try to get to know them, and then that's when
you can see like there's certain cues, you know, and I feel like
that goes like men or women vice versas, Like there's certain cues you can
see where like Okay, that really wasn't genuine or that really didn't make sense,
you know, so right right, basically use your discernment, right,
yeah, pretty much. Yeah, don't be blinded by the pretty looks,
gentlemen, use your discernments exactly. Okay, So the next one, we
are the new adults, So everyone needs to start throwing cookouts instead of booking
sections in a club all the time. That's facts. Literally, I've heard
so much on my friends tell me like, oh, I just don't mess
with the club scene, like it's really just crowded and hot and sticky,
and yes, cookouts, it's more of a personal family vibe. There's food.
There might be some food at the club, but I'm not buying it.
So you know, the cookout always gonna have some good stuff, especially
Caribbean cookout. That's real food. It's not gonna be hot dogs and burgers.
So yep, that's so true. And if you can't already tell ladies
and gentlemen, we really care a lot about food on this podcast, because
exactly why I came on here, right, No, that's so true,
and it's so like refreshing to hear you say that as a college student,
because when I was in school, like I felt like I was always a
weird one, Like I never wanted to go out anywhere. I would rather
just stay in, you know, go to the library. Like I was
very I was very I thought I was very odd, just because my thought
was when we go out, it's not like when you go out in Jamaica,
right, like where you have these open parties that are outside and like
you said, we have real food and there's music and you know, everyone's
just having a good time. It's like everyone is crammed into this building and
like you said, people are sweaty. And then you know, when you're
a woman, you have this man that looked like Ninja Man trying to tap
you on the shoulder, and then you can't tell if you're upset that he
tapped you or the fact that he even thought he had a chance. It's
just a lot, you know, no disrespect to Ninja Man, but you
know, not my time. Definitely, and definitely, like are you listening
in Maryland, there's a big venue problem, Like we can't have functions anywhere
it's really like you have to go to DC or book out a big venue
space that's like twenty thirty minutes from campus. But I've seen I want to
Philadelphia recently, they can just have block parties in someone backyard outside, and
I think that's the vibe you're talking about where it's really like, you know,
you can't you don't see that down here, and it's kind of it's
just a fun spot. People just you know, having a good time.
Like the police aren't tripping until it gets to like three am. Like yeah,
that that idea of doing cookoats over the club definitely so on safe for
sure. I agree with you. Second to last one, Amazon will really
send you a box the size of a Range drover just to deliver an iPhone
charger. No, that's they do that all the time, and it's actually
very misleading and annoying because it is yes, no, so unsafe. I'm
wondering, did somebody send me a gift? Oh, I'm gonna set me
a MacBook a bike whole time it's like some Capri sons and some juice that
I forgot I ordered. Oh my gosh, Yeah, Amazon, you're wasting
boxes. You have to do better. That can't. That can't be good
for the environment. I don't know how, but it can't be good.
It can't. Okay. And the final one, this one is hilarious.
I'm sorry, Okay, calling me your ex while I'm out here telling people
I don't know you is crazy. That's in insanity. That's definitely not sound
safe. Definitely not sound safe. And I can't understand, like if if
someone, even if we were ex, if someone didn't want to claim me,
why would I do the embarrassment of trying to claim them? Like that's
crazy, that's crazy, Like you wouldn't have to worry about me claiming you
that if that was exactly. So you're doing me a favor because I don't
got to talk about none of that. That happened exactly exactly. That's a
straight up I'm sorry, who are you again? Oh my gosh? Hit
hilarious. Well that was fun, but no, it's time to talk the
things right. So, as you may already know, June is Caribbean American
Heritage Month and Men's Mental Health Awareness Month, so you get to celebrate like
twice. So that's good, right, So first, I love for you
to share your favorite thing about being Caribbean American, I either have to say
either the food. Obviously, you know how to say this food. You
love your belly knew it was going to say the food. But I think
also like just our culture and like family vibe. I don't know if that
makes sense, but I think a little curban, especially Jamaica, like we're
taking a certain set of like mana is like to speak to everyone you know,
you know, at least hail them up. And I think it.
I think it goes a long way. And I think that's one of my
like set values, like my parents taught me growing up, so you know,
coming around here saying people would just be rude. Oh so I think
that. I know that's very specific, but that's definitely one of the things
that I value because I think it goes a long way at least to especially
first impressions in general. Yes, yes, for sure, for sure,
brought tops Okay, brought topsy, I know the word, but I love
it because no, I feel the same way. I feel like I've always
felt that way, but of course as I've gotten older, I'm just like,
wow, people really don't have manners like you can look me in my
face and not say good morning. When I'm from a culture where if you're
walking past the garbage man, you say morning. You know what I mean?
Like, I feel like neighbors all that. Yes, I feel like
if someone's about to rob you, they're gonna say evening and then rob you,
Like you know what I mean. Like, it's just something that is
embedded. So when you're surrounded by certain persons that don't subscribe to that,
it can be very like strange to get used to me for sure, And
I think it makes us like kind of why not want to reciprocate that energy
anymore? Yeah, And that's why I think things like the recipes lost through
like generations. Yeah. Yeah, how do you think the I guess,
the fusion of your Jamaican cultural values and then like the American societal norms,
Like, how do you think that has shaped your identity, particularly in terms
of your approach to you know, family, education and community involvement. Mm
hmmm. I honestly feel like, at least for me specifically, it has
like kind of equal on each side because obviously growing up like you know,
things like commanders and how to conduct yourself properly and kind of like I don't
want to say intrinsic values, but like more rale and stuff like that's definitely
come from like my parents Jamaica, how my family has raised me. Yeah,
but I think a lot of community stuff has also come from growing up
in America, you know, Like, especially because I've growing up here,
I've witnessed a lot of the issues here, like in person. So I
think a lot of the community service values and things of that nature kind of
comes equally from that because I see those problems face on, and that kind
of makes me like, Okay, these are things that to be addressed.
These are the people, the area groups that need to be helped, things
of that nature. And not to say that, you know, I don't
try to stay like updated on issues back home as well, but obviously you
know, being in person and seeing things like face to face has a different
impact on you as a person. No, that makes sense. That makes
sense. And when you think of like experiences that you've had, right,
So you've talked about like manners brought up sea, just what is expected of
you in certain environments, but then you go out into other environments that are
probably predominantly American and you don't see the same thing, right, So can
you share maybe an experience where your Jamaican background provided like a distinct perspective or
an advantage in an American setting, whether that's like socially or academically, like
your Jamaican upbringing was able to help see to help an American see sorry,
you know, a different point of view. Even there's a lot of situations
honestly, like I know everyone knows the same, like don't be a follower,
be a leader and that My dad used to tell me that every single
day on the way to school. That's one of his main things. And
I think that really stuck with me. And like being in situations like even
for example, in college, like being a part of student groups like you
know, the fraternity and CSA, even like Society of Black Engineers, Like
you're gonna be in groups where you know, not everyone has that same motivation
and either love for the org or even just initiative as a person to put
forth that effort to make things happen. And I think that's where you have
to Even back in high school, you know, I used to play like
sports all year around, being on a soccer team. People were just lazy
and it was a different type of you know if you have love for something.
I feel like Caribbean people they not to say other people don't, but
I think it's like we take it personally to either lose or kind of just
give up and say, you know whatever, right, Like, we take
that personally and that's like, and I feel like we have a lot of
pride with things we do. So us letting other people win over us,
that's not gonna happen. So talk up, us, talk up. And
I think I really used to have because you know, taking that pride thing
that's me personally. So I used to have issues with people, especially like
on soccer back in the day, people like because I was team captain,
and it would just irk me to the soul. We lose a game and
you're over here playing with your toes talking about taco bell, like having fun.
We should be game planning the strategy for the next one. Like people
are just very unserious. Yeah, I feel like I'm going on a tangent
here. No you're not, You're not. This is perfect. You know
why? Because I always tell one of my cousins, I feel like I
was born an adults. And what I mean by that is like you said,
oh, your dad is telling you this all you know every day on
the way to school. I feel like Jamaican parents talk in proverbs, right,
They're always telling you these things you know, how not to be and
make sure you always pray. And you know what you said, we have
something in us because we're constantly told these positive things. And granted we can't
speak for the whole country. You know everyone has had that experience, but
most of us by somebody, whether it's parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles,
whoever you're you're constantly told something to kind of push you, and so
you have this thing in you that's like, you can't tell me who I
can and can't be. If I want to feel that way, that's me.
But you cannot tell me what I can and can't achieve, or you
cannot, you know, make me feel bad about myself because that's how you
feel about yourself, you know what I mean. It's an important thing to
talk about for sure, and I think it makes us not afraid to like
stand out and do our own thing in that same manner because you know,
like I said, we're prideful. So we're going to stand a hard idea
and go with it if we think it's right, absolutely, absolutely. And
it's funny because you know, other people that are from other countries will say,
oh, you know, Jamaicans think they're all that and they're the best.
I mean yeah, But but for some of us, I can't.
Again, I'm not speaking for the entire island, but for some of us,
it's just what is ingrained in us. It's not from an arrogant place,
but it's from a place of if you're going to sweep, sweep the
best you can sweep, if you're going to clean your room, clean your
room the best you can clean your room, you know, And for me,
that's not teaching arrogance, that's just strengthening you, especially as a woman.
So no bohy can come and tell me, you know, I mean
like what I'm not, or bring down myself esteem or anyone, because I
was raised with a mother and a father that constantly, still to this day
pour into me and remind me of who I am and whole great I am.
And I think that is just like so important. But the downside is
back to my saying, you feel like you were a born adult because you're
very serious and everyone's just looking at you like man, relax, like we're
in high school. Like, it's just it's so funny, you said,
if you were always like, oh, why are you so serious? Light
have some fun? Even today at each function, I'd be so stressed trying
to mixer everything's good. You have to learn how to enjoy yourself at the
same time. Yeah, no, And you know what, it took me
a very long time. But I will say in retrospect, they are right.
But I think there's a balance, right, because you don't want to
lose yourself, and you don't want to be so far laid back that you
become a recliner, right, Like, you don't want to be completely just
oblivious to the serious of life. But you have to learn how to balance
because what ends up happening is you look back and you're like me. And
I said this before on a previous episode, where I'm like, you know,
I really did study a lot, and I really did have a good
time in college. But maybe I could have gone to like one or two
parties. Maybe I didn't have to, you know, lie and say I'm
not coming or I'm coming, and then go home and drink tea. Maybe
I don't have to be so boring, you know what, I mean,
like maybe I could have been like a little bit more fun, you know
what I mean. So I think that's good that you're learning that now because
you now have the wherewithal to say, all right, you know what,
there's a time to be serious and there's a time to have fun, because
ultimately, I'm sure you want to have fun, but you just know that
you have certain goals you have to achieve and you can't do that if you're
having fun like ninety percent of the time. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Okay, So onto more of like the mental health health aspect, right,
particularly when it comes to men, because as we know, it's something that's
kind of like new, particularly in our culture, you know, talking about
feelings and things like that. And I said previously that we've had men on
this podcast that have talked about the fact that not only when you're a man,
not only when you're a black man, but particularly when you're a Jamaican
man, you just feel like you can't have any emotions, like your back
has to be broad and tough, and you know that's not realistic, you
know what I mean. You know, what would you say, are maybe
some strategies that you've found to be effective in managing the stresses of college life,
particularly as a male student that has, as you said, that has
to balance academic responsibilities, social life, and obviously your personal well being.
Yeah, I will profess proface by saying, like, I'm definitely not the
best of it at all, very much learning. I feel like that learning
journey kind of honestly started in college because before I was very much on that
you know, you just got to get through it is what it is like
Type B. Especially like my father definitely has that mindset, and you know,
I feel like young boys growing up, you always try in some way,
you try to, like like you see your father as some type of
role model, so you definitely try to, you know, exhibit those type
of qualities. But coming into college, I think the biggest thing for me
is trying to learn how to actually like talk about my issues because I'm very
much a person that's like I don't want to say I'm closed off, but
I'll open up, but like not everyone needs to know my business, and
I feel like I do take that to an extreme that it shouldn't be as
much as I do. But that's definitely something I've had to work on,
Like actually Okay, like I know I can trust this person, I can
talk to them about like how I'm actually feeling. And even on that end,
I have to push myself to actually talk about it at like another end
because I'm very much like you know, like, yeah, I have this
issue, but I'll get over in the week. It's fine. But I
found that it helps to actually because then you get other perspectives from people,
and that'll help you sort out the issues you're having quicker, and at the
very least, it'll give you some type of closure where at least if you
talk to the right person, they've also felt this way before, they're feeling
this way right now. Especially as like engineering students, I feel like a
lot of us have the same you know, we're all taking the same classes,
we all have the same struggle, like we're just burnt out, like
so much going on, we don't have time for anything. So yeah,
I think that communication aspect is definitely the first step into trying to you know,
just calm your mental having some free space to stop, to take a
step back from everything. No, definitely, And I'm here laughing when you
said about trusting people, because again, you are not alone. We are
all taught in some way. I mean, if you even think about the
music that we listen to or you know, reggae nance hall, every second
you're hearing don't trust people. You know, a man that you may know
once said, may not trust people, may not even trust vehicle. You
know. So that that is something that I think is ingrained in us.
And that goes back to discernment, right, because you don't want to keep
everything inside, but you said something key. You want to tell the right
person, and by the right person, that's someone that has shown you that
you can trust them. You don't just want to, you know, tell
your business to someone because they sit next to you in class, or because
they are smart, so you figure they're not going to say anything. You
know, when you say anything to anyone, my parents always taught me you
have to have the understanding that there is a chance it will get back out
right, because it's no longer in your mind. You've now put it out
into the world. Right. But as you said, we have to find
those group of persons that we can trust, especially you being a man,
because a lot of men think like, oh, you described you know,
I'll be fine or I'll get through it, and you know you even saying
that you possibly learn that from your father. That makes sense because that's a
generation where therapy, what do you mean therapy? What's like great? Like
what are you talking about? You know what I mean? Like that's beyond
their comprehension, right, because they didn't have those outlets, and that's not
something that was really championed or in some cases even still is championed in our
culture. You know, like we're getting better for sure, like one hundred
percent, we're getting better. But I think that's good that you recognize that.
And you meet people of like so many different backgrounds, right, and
you're all here at this place, but you don't know people's family life,
right, or people's journey or the examples that they've had. So what do
you say to maybe young men listening, whether they're in college or not,
that maybe didn't have the best example for a father, and you know,
they're trying to be better or they're trying to do things better to where they're
taking care of their personal wellbeing and they're trying to succeed academically. I'd say,
well, I feel like the most primary option like is to have a
mental work. And I feel like there's a lot of resources out there that
people don't know that you can not to say you can get a mental very
easily, but there's programs out there wherever you live where you can sign up,
you know, apply things of that nature. And that's really that type
of older man perspective that I think a lot of people will need to,
whether it's career wise, just dealing with life, dealing with women, you
know, getting that perspective from a man's perspective instead of like your mom or
some things of that sort. You know. But obviously mentorship isn't you know,
available to everyone. So if that's not the case, honestly, I'd
say, you kind of just have to You have to find it somewhere.
And if you don't have it within yourself, then either find it in a
community. In your community, like some of your peers are. You know,
they might be smaller than you, but there are ten years down the
line already thinking. So regardless of whether you can find that elderly mentor whether
it's a peer mentor I feel like there's someone in your community you can reach
out to that can you know, kind of give you that other perspective from
a male perspective that you need to really talk about these issues and at the
very least if they don't have that, you know, advanced knowledge, they
can at least relate to you. Right. No, that makes perfect sense,
and speaking of that, that's a good stay way, you know,
just having that community and like he said, building that community and building a
brotherhood if you will, you are a part. I mentioned it in the
introduction, but you are a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity. And you
know, I had mutokofa as you know, on here, and I got
a lot of feedback from persons, you know, agreeing with what he said
about his experience or the impact that Alpha has had on his life, especially
being someone that is of Guyanese and South African descent and not growing up seeing
you know, his dad being a part of something like that. So he
had to kind of go find his way and figure out like what is this
about, and you know, kind of get that information. And I wondered
if you could kind of tell your story on how you came to know about
the fraternity and what significant impact that it has had on you just joining that
brotherhood. Honestly, like coming to college, I really knew nothing about even
fraternities and Greek life in general. So to be honest, it was more
me in my exploration phase of college, thinging like, Okay, I have
to get involved somehow besides the Caribbean Student Association, so I have to do
something else, like to really get myself out there, find that network for
me that I can help but also help me. And I've also always had
I've had, I always had a love for community service when it comes to
like my people. Not to be like biased or anything, but I think
that's my niche of trying to uplift like my brothers and sisters. You know,
that's something that I have passion and whether it's Caribbean or just like you
know, in these communities. So coming across some of my friends, they're
like, you know, they have these on campus, Like if you're looking
into stuff, you should, you know, look into it, do your
research. And I did, and I feel like I resonated with a lot
of the values, whether it was like academic, the community service portion I
talked about, and even seeing the brothers that were in the yard at the
time, I feel like I resonated with them as well, Like they were
all in leadership positions, but A big thing for me for leadership is like
leading by example and by what you do, not by like you know,
big speeches or words or like doing a lot. I feel like the simple
thing of just doing what you say goes a long way, and that's something
I've always wanted to exhibit myself as a leader. So I think that's why
I chose off of Besides, like other fraternities, that makes perfect sense.
And how would you say that that sense of brotherhood that you described within the
organization, like once you became a part of it, how has that contributed
do you think to your mental well being? And what aspects of the bonds
that you formed do you think have maybe just helped your mental health? It
definitely has. Like just having a network of black men that you know,
you have your peers around you because we're all around the same year. Just
having that openly available at always to either like you know, someone to talk
to, or even them to come talk to me, like being one of
their older profits. Having that bond is something that's really important and it just
gives you at least like even if you don't talk about things in the back
of mind, you know that there's someone there for you if there isn't.
And even having that older network is something I think that's very unique because I
can talk to people that graduated twenty eighteen, the year two thousand, two
thousand and four, like when Muto crossed, and even before that, like
one of my profits from that crossed in ninety five. He still checks on
me all the time, like, bro, how are you doing, how
your grade is looking, things of that nature, And I think just having
that they're available, even if you don't take advantage of it, it's something
that's really important to like, Okay, I have people that I can lean
on and lean back on, you know if I need something, and that
kind of you know, it gives you that ease of mind. And also
you know, some like stability, you know, because you know you have
something there absolutely and you have you know, like you said, men that
you can lean on and that you know, you know for sure have been
in your shoes in one way or another, right because they all had to
go to school and graduate and you know, they know what it's like to
be on campus and have all these responsibilities. So it's not like when you
probably go to your friends that maybe aren't in college or maybe they're not part
of a fraternity, or maybe they're just they're just at college for the vibes,
you know, like they don't really understand like juggling everything. I think
it's good that you have a group of men you can go to and kind
of have those conversations with. So that's awesome. Speaking of that, can
you share one alpha that has had a major impact on you and maybe like
just share an example or like a personal experience that you've had with one of
your fraternity brothers that has really had an impact on who you are as a
person. Hm hmmm. I think I'd have to say, honestly, I
think the one person that comes to mind. There's multiple, don't get me
wrong, Yeah, but one of the biggest people that goes to mind is
a brother, Brian Quinnan. He crossed fall twenty two and he graduated last
spring. I think definitely he's definitely one of the people that you know,
checks up on me and someone I can openly talk to. But I think
the reason why I feel like I have such a good bond with him is
because we relate on a lot of things, and I think one of those
biggest things is that initiative I was telling you about like when that man,
like when he was in college, he did everything. He was that man.
He was like he was a you know, bio pre med major and
he was in society of Black Engineers on the national level. Like that doesn't
even make sense, right, Yeah, but he was just doing everything.
And not to like brag for him or anything, but he's definitely someone I
look up to in that regard, Like, you know, if I really
set my mind to it, whatever how much programs I'm in and things of
that nature, I can do it. And he literally he's one of those
people that stands on what they say every time because people will ask him,
oh, how'd you do all that stuff? And he'll give you the game
plan. He's not gatekeeping, like he'll say, I did this, there's
the four point zero plan. My grades was straight. I did this.
And it's not even just with school, it's with everything he has. He
plans things out meticulously and he does them and he makes it like when you
talk to him, like he makes it seem so simple, like I don't
know what's so crazy about it, Like I just did what I said.
But that's definitely something that I'm like, Okay, if he can do it,
I can do it too, you feel me. That's amazing. I
mean on so many levels. One that you have somebody like that that you
can look to, and two that he's so willing and open to, like
you said, give you the exact game plan, like he's not trying to
beat around the bush or you know, I think in a lot of our
communities, just as black people as a whole, sometimes there can be this
idea that you know, I suffered or I went through this, so you
have to do it too, you know. And I think that there's a
delicate balance with that because you don't want to do things for people because then
you know, you don't learn And I could insert the teach a man how
to fish proverb right here, but I won't. You know, you want
to help people, but you don't want to like give them exactly what they
need, right because they have to like figure it out for themselves. But
the fact that he's showing you what he did, right, but you know
that you have to do it your way because you're not him. You're never
going to meet him on any circumstance. Right, There's one him and there's
one you. So I think that's still beneficial because you know that you can
one. You know you can achieve it because you know somebody that you're very
close to and has a lot of similarities, you know, as far as
in your behavior and how you both are. You know that if he can
do it, then you can do it. Right. But it's also helpful
because no, you have an idea of like what is even possible. Maybe
you didn't even think half of these things on this list he's given you would
be possible, but you know, like the outcome you know exactly. I
think that makes a really big difference. And I think that you just talking
about, you know, being part of an organization that you know, let's
face it, when people, especially Caribbean people that as you said, are
coming to school and they probably don't know firsthand anything about fraternities or sororities,
right, they're thinking like party or you know what we see in the move
movies like Get the Girls, you know, stuff like that. And I'm
not saying you guys don't partake in those things, but but you know,
I think it's important that your focus is really like why you're there, what
you're there to achieve? You know, you guys have fun and you do
all this stuff. But I can't remember the saying you guys always say,
but basically you graduate, right, yeah, you know that's what's important because
you come to school. We talked about balance earlier, right, like,
you come to school to have fun and have all those good memories. But
if you're leaving school with a one point two and you can't get a job,
none of that matters, you know what I mean. And it goes
back to what you said, your dad said on those mornings in the car.
You know, make sure you be yourself and make sure that you focus
on the things that are important because a lot of times, and my parents
used to tell me this, those same people you see partying, they're going
home and they're still right, they're going to come to you and be like,
oh, I don't know how I got one hundred percent. That's crazy.
I don't know how I did it. But you don't see that they're
at home studying, they have flash cards, they're doing all of that.
So you don't want to look at somebody and say, oh, I'm going
to be like John. And you know John's at every party and he never
studies and he gets all a's John is studying. I'm here to tell you
John a study, right, but a lot of straight back to it really
does prepare you for life because in life you don't know what's going to come
at you. I mean, what you can that can happen in college too,
of course, but obviously as you get older, as you take on
more responsibilities, you have to be able to balance. And don't get me
wrong, we all have moments where you know, we're just like, oh
my gosh, I need a break, or like everything is happening at once,
or this is overwhelming. That can happen at any age. I don't
subscribe to the idea that you know, some of us would have heard our
Caribbean parents say, oh, you think you have problem. You don't have
any problems. You're in college and you're in this. No, like everybody
has their own issues, whatever that may be, you know, But it's
really I think these types of conversations are really helpful, not just talking about
mental health in general, but you know, adding those nuances or intersections of
being Caribbean, you know, and what that means, because you kind of
have to switch when you come out of your house, right, because as
you said, everybody doesn't have those same values, and if you don't adapt,
you're going to walk around being offended all the time, right, Right,
And I think it's really important that these conversations continue to happen and people
just see that there's more to college than just books all the time. Right.
But you can get other experiences, you know, whether it's in CSA
like you said, or being a part of Alpha. And finally, I
wanted to ask you being a part of CSA, like, what is your
favorite part with them? Right, because you're exposed to all Caribbean islands that
maybe you weren't exposed to how they do things, you know, just being
Jamaica. Yeah, listen, it is twenty twenty four and this year we
are decreasing overwhelm and increasing productivity, which is why I use Audible to listen
to my favorite books when I'm on the goal. To help you start your
audiobook journey, we have partnered with Audible to offer our listeners a free thirty
day trial, So don't just take my word for it. Visit audibletrial dot
com Backslash Ltdt to start your free trial today. Now I've literally learned so
much because like even my freshman year we were the minority, like Jamaicans were
the minority. There's a lot of Guyanese people of March Triny people. We
switched the side. We switch the ties now okay, you know, you
know you had to, but you know, even learning so much about that,
like so much Soca music and kind of learning the history of Dad,
learning more about you know, Juveni and Carnival historically and today. Like before
coming to college, the only Carnival I knew was Baltimore, Washington, you
know, and the one in Jamaica. So please do here today, please
for real? Was like because I never been to I've been to. Yeah,
I never had the chance to go to Jamaica Carnival. Yeah that was
the only one we went every year. Yeah, but that's hilarious. But
you know, learning about like Spice Mass and training, Carnival and all these
different artists and even besides music, you know, like the food, their
culture kind of you know, the differences, but how we're all very similar
in the way even the demographics you know too, like you know there's Indo
Caribbean, Latin Caribbean, you know, and like we're all a big one
family. And going into other part of your question, like the most part
I enjoy. It's really that family community aspect. Like this year specifically,
I tried to well not tried. I rebuilt the cabinet program, you know,
like our extension of eboard where you like, you know, it's not
as much responsibility, but you still give them an opportunity to like bring their
ideas and support the org. And that's what I talk about, like like
you told me too, like being Jamaican, like we stand on what we
say, Like coming in when I saw a cabinet, I seen that That's
the part I knew I wanted to fix, right So coming into this year
already had the game plan set of how to you know, actually make connections.
And I feel like, you know, if you ask anyone on cabinet,
I've done the due diligence of making that personal connection, even if it's
not as much as others, to make them feel welcome. And I think
that's the most important thing when kind of trying to bring people into an organization,
it's really those making the effort to talk to them, actually get to
know them. And I feel like that's the part that I enjoy too.
I enjoy you know, helping spread our culture whether they're you know, Caribbean
or even not even they're from another nationality. So uh, that's definitely the
part I enjoy most kind of creating, because even the growth was crazy,
Like at the be ending of the year, I had to fight tooth and
nail just to get someone to respond in the group chat, sending out random
stuff like how is y'all day, how is y'all studies? You know,
no response coming into Now they have their own group chat games, they're going
on side missions, getting seafood boils together, like all of them are like
close friends now. And it's honestly a beautiful thing to see wa that,
but like it generally makes me happy, like seeing the growth of the org
over this year and more, like I love that. And that's it's really
important what you said. You know, being personable matters, and I think
that that's something that you can't fake. I think unfortunately, we live in
a generation where you know, people think if they post quotes on Instagram or
you know, they're one way in public, but they're a complete monstrosity you
know, to people, or they're rude to waiters, or you know,
they just they're not being their true selves. People can see that, and
I think it's a testament to who you are that people feel welcomed by you
reaching out to them or putting yourself out there, right, because there's a
difference between somebody that's going around like a politician saying, oh, you know,
welcome, you should come to our meetings, like you can feel that
that's just a person trying to whatever it is, get the numbers up or
get more people for a fundraiser, versus one that's genuinely caring, you know,
like you said, sending out messages being left on red Sure, no
problem, you know, but but no, they're doing their own thing because
they probably see or I'm sure they see not probably that you're you're being genuine
in your want to have everybody kind of come together, you know. But
I also do want to say, like for people listening, like I'm not
like all that effort I put in, I'm not an ultrovert at all.
Like like I told you before, I don't like talking that much. Like,
yeah, I don't want people to think, like you know, you
have to be that outgoing person that you know has high energy, Like it's
really a like like you said, some people have and some people don't,
but it's also an everything at the same time, like you have to be
willing to get out your comfort zone to achieve that goal. No, definitely,
And I just want to say one thing. You know, I kind
of giggled when you said I don't like talking that much, because one that
shows you that Os likes his big sister, because he's I'm here talking to
Tings, although I don't like to talk too much. But it's also something
that I know I used to say all the time, right, and here
I am with my own show call less talk the things. And let me
tell you what I realized, Right, It's not that I don't like talking.
It's that I don't like talking to people I either don't trust or I
don't think really has like my best interest in mind. So for example,
I am not a person so I am. I am an introvert. And
people will laugh at that because I'm very silly, as you know, but
that's once I get to know you, right, I'm an introvert in that
we can talk and we can joke, and you know, we can laugh
and da da dah, and then five minutes are gonna pass and you're gonna
be like, where's ash and I'm traveling down ninety five like it's too much,
like I need to leave this. But that's me, right, Like
everybody knows I disappear, Like you can call me David Copperfield because I am
gone, right, And what I realized is extroverts they get energy from being
around people. That's how they get energy, right, Whereas introverts we can
be the life of the party, but then we have to like recluse,
you know, like we need a moment. Right. So I think when
I hear you talk about even in this session, right, I hear you
talk about things you're passionate about, and I know, if I was just
to be quiet, you can talk about it all day. But I think
what you are, what you're really communicating, and maybe you should say to
yourself, is that you don't like to talk about small things, Like you
don't want to talk about people's business. You don't want to talk about you
know, what this one is doing, or what Patsy did or Miss Pearl
in church, Like you know, you don't want to talk about those things,
you know what I mean. But like if it's something of substance,
right, or that you're really passionate about, you will talk, you know,
and you will put yourself out there for the greater good of something.
You're not just gonna be. You know, you don't strike me as a
person that's just gonna text random people so they cannot text you back, Like
that's not something you would do. But you're trying to convey that although I'm
not a person that's gonna run up to people and say hi, my name
is Like, you're not that type of person, Like you have the ability
to do that knowing that you know you're gonna recluse after a while. Does
that make sense? No, definitely, I feel like you just described me
for them. You sure you're not psychologist? Was a little too hard point.
I don't know, I don't know you know what it is. I
literally used to say, I'm not even joking. I used to say the
same thing, and a lot of my friends used to be like, hush,
you don't like to talk because once I'm talking about something, just like
I'm telling you that I'm passionate about I will. I am the queen of
long story shorts, and it's not in short about the story. Nothing about
the story is short, right, So I just had to realize and tell
myself, like, I need to stop saying that, because you know the
power of the tongue, right, so what you're saying matters. I need
to stop, whether it's out louder to myself saying I don't like to talk,
I don't like to be around a lot of people. That's not true.
Yes, I don't like to be around like big crowds of people I
don't know, but if it's people that are my friends or you know,
people I haven't seen in a long time, I love seeing everybody. Now
I'm going to disappear after an hour, but I still love seeing everybody,
you know. So I just I don't know when I heard you say that.
I'm just like, I need to tell him this because this is something
I used to say, and I don't even think he realizes. I'm gonna
have to stop saying it now because definitely a massive description, perfectly so,
oh my gosh, hilarious. Well I'm glad I couldn't give you a little
doctor Phild's session. Don't build me. No no, no, no,
no no building, no building, free of charge, free of charge.
Okay, Well, for our final segment, I'm going to ask you I
vacillate between how many questions I usually ask, but pick up the seven jewels.
I'm going to ask you seven questions, all right, okay, okay,
so you can answer with one word or one sentence, right, and
just make it be the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, all
right, So stretcher back, make sure your need is working. Good you
can you know you're ready challenge quiz? All right, all right? First
question? What book or movie left a lasting impression on you? Shsh that's
a hard one already, Oh my gosh. And it doesn't have to do
anything deep. Maybe you just like really resonated it with it, or you
really liked it something like that. I'd have to say. The first thing
that pass in my mind is the book Kindred, honestly. Oh okay,
nice, nice, Okay, that's fine. As long as I didn't know
if you were going to say shut us and I was gonna say us,
you came and you came to talk the leadership things come again. Okay,
that's that one is good. Okay. Next one, what man do you
look up to most? And why? I guess I have to say like
my father for real, because I will say I try not to have,
Like I'm definitely not one of the people that have like you know, celebrity
role models and stuff like that was never my thing. But if I have
to be honest with myself, I think a lot of his people literally say
like, you know, y'all look the same, y'all, y'all act the
same, y'all talk the same. Like I definitely picked them a lot of
things from him, whether it's like being too serious or oh I forgot it's
supposed to be one sentence. I don't already message no, no, it's
fine, it's fine, go with what you want to say. It's fine.
But yeah, but I think like the important things like you know how
to carry yourself as a man, and you know how to interact with others,
especially women, like respecting women to the best of your ability. Like,
I think a lot of my core values have come from him, So
yeah, I'd have to go with him for sure. Nice. I love
that answer. Okay, next one tea or coffee? Oh t okay,
listen, there was only one right answer, you know, there was only
one right answer. Had you said coffee, we would have to trade you
to the Nigerians because you know, t is a part of our community.
See how quick I answered. That wasn't even a question. Okay, Next
one, describe yourself in three words. I'd have to say understanding, okay,
stubborn, and and I say like compassionate, honestly or like empathetic.
One of those two words nice, nice, as long as you never said
bad man perfect perfect okay. And the next one, what affirmation or proverb
or quote helps to keep you grounded? If I had to pick one,
yeah right, there's so many sheeesh. I don't want to say the don't
feel a follower, be a leader one because we'ven talked about that a lot
already. I said, I have to say, like it might be kind
of like what's the word like cliche, but definitely the Philippians Bible Verse worthy
team, like I think I definitely try to keep that in mind every day,
you know, Like you know, I'm Christian, so reading, oh
I figure out the one word answers again, No, no, it fine,
but you have to say the Bible verse because some persons might not know
it. Yeah, through all things Christ, I can do all things through
Christ who strengthens me. I'm not sure which version that is, but you
know, just that's like my daily reminder, you know, to remember like
you know, whatever adversity you go through, you know you always have gone
on your side and all those people behind you, you know, supporting you,
pushing you on that. I love that perfect. And second to last
one, what is your favorite Jamaican sing favorite Jamaican saying? How gotta find
a new one? Now following not adah mm hmmm mhm. See my brain's
like going blank. Now I don't know. Okay, let me ask you
a different one. Then? How about so this is gonna count as the
same one, so there's still going to be one more so, how about
okay, if you could go anywhere in the world, all expenses paid,
where would you go on? What five persons would you bring? Sheesh,
Well, I'm gonna answer both. But my uncle always tells me when we
held each other up like respect to the greatst aspect. But for the other
question, that's not even like a whole fully thought out saying. But that's
just something that popped in my head because we always did it every time I
see me and my brother too. Oh nice, you said all expense paid
trip, Yes, anywhere in the world. So one half of the question
is where would you go? And then the second half is what five persons
would you take? Honestly, I have to say, hm hmm. I
have to say Carnival. That's the that's my next big place. I want
to go Carnival. Honestly, I'd have to say Trinidad because if I go
to Jamaica, I want to go to Jamaica, but I'm gonna have to
visit my family there, so I feel like that's not really I feel like
that doesn't count. Said I do not want to bring down a baron.
No, that's not that's not do you have to be careful with your words.
You know. That's not what I've met. That's not what I met.
I met like that's like a two part trip. That's not you know.
No, definitely. Plus I've never been to Trinida and I like trying
to do things. So we'll go with Trinity Carnival. Okay, I'd bring
me my brother. You don't don't count. You don't know my brother.
Honestly, my my brother and my four cousins. My two cousins that went
to University of Maryland and then my two one lives in New York. She
just had a baby actually, and the other one that works in Brooklyn.
Okay, nice, So it would be like a cousin's trip. Were literally
trying to play one for the longest, So yeah, nice, that would
be really fun. Okay, And the final question, how has your relationship
with your mother influenced your personal values? Mm hmmm. I think it actually
has a lot, because I feel like we were similar but also very different
in the way we think. So I feel like she's definitely She's probably where
I get my like empathetic nature from because through her I've had I've definitely learned,
like you know, understanding a lot of different perspectives in the world,
even ones that like I might think are ridiculous and crazy. I think she's
definitely taught me how to navigate that and also like kind of put my I
don't want to say pride, but like you know, put my like opposition
off and kind of just listen to people and really try to understand their background.
Even at the end of the day if I don't, you still got
to respect it and like respect all others over anything. And I think that's
definitely one of the main things I've gotten from her. I love that.
I love that, and you know, something that I've talked about with other
men that have come on this podcast in the past is the importance of a
mother son relationship, right. I think that's very telling how a man treats
women in his life based on that relationship. So I always ask a question
about, you know, how men feel or what they've learned from their mother
or grandmother, because I think it's really telling in who you are as a
person, and just in you explaining that, even when you explained your relationship
with your father honestly as well, you know, it really says a lot
about who you are as a person, like who I've come to know,
but also who you described on here, you know in this episode, and
just a lot of your qualities. You know. Yes, we are of
the same culture, and yes there are certain things that we all learn as
Jamaicans, but as we also know by just turning on the news or looking
at the Jamaica Observer, you know, once in a while, there are
people that are not so nice, you know, or don't treat women very
well well, you know. So it's like it's really a choice, like
our parents do the best they can do and teach us right from wrong and
do the best they can with what they have, but it's really up to
us as individuals whether we're going to abide by that, whether we're going to
be decent people in the world. You know. So, yes, it
starts with your parents. Yes, mother and son. That relationship has a
lot to do with it, but it sets the foundation for who you will
become as a man. And it sounds to me like your parents did an
excellent job. Definitely shout out to them for sure. Yes, for sure,
Big up Auntie and uncle. Well as Sadly, that concludes the episode.
I know we could talk for like three more hours, but I want
to thank you so much for coming to talk the things with me and for
sharing your insights and your stories. And I think having more of these conversations
can be helpful just for people in general, but particularly men, because that's
the premise of this episode, to see that they're not alone in probably some
of the stuff that they deal with on a day today or that they're thinking
about. So, before we go, is there anything else that you want
to share? I think one little tangent, like onto you're saying like it's
very important for that mother's son relationship. I think I was thinking earlier in
the podcast, Like I just want to say, I feel like it's very
important to have women friends, Like not every woman you know, you're supposed
to what's the word pursue even from like you know, people from younger even
to now like in college. Like having that woman perspective I think is very
important to build yourself as a man, because that'll like show you the women's
side of things that you might never known if you only like obviously like a
lot of men, like you know, your friend groups are probably the majority
like male, right right, having you know, at least like a couple
homegirls that you can talk to. Honestly, I feel like they'd be easier
to talk to than your homeboys. Sometimes you're not gonna lie because they've understanding
some stuff. Yep, Yep, that's true. And that's what I mean.
Like I try to tell my guy friends all the time, like every
woman that you meet, even if you find them attractive, like if you
realize that's not going anywhere, that doesn't mean you just toss her, Like
maybe that could be a good friend. And like you said, it's really
important sometimes to get a woman's perspective. However, it comes back to even
with a woman, like having that discernment, you know, like making sure
you're talking to someone anyone that has your same values exactly, because if you
bring a story or you bring something you're going through to anybody, no matter
their gender, and they don't have your same value, they could either make
you feel like what you're feeling is it valid or kind of send you on
a different tangent that you wouldn't have gone on. Does that make sense right?
No, definitely, I definitely agree. Thank you so much for coming.
I had an amazing time, and I hope you did as well.
I definitely did. Thank you so much for running me on here as a
privilege. Oh, no problem, no problem, It was my pleasure.
Thanks again for tuning in this week, and please remember to follow us on
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