What is up, fellow Thermo nuclear a effort, I am and the Valley
coming at you win my certified and tabulous co host mix your frank us.
We are debuting this is the debut of our twenty twenty three offseason Report Cars,
where we will implore you to remember that a C is average and passing,
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description as well. With all that out of the way, Grant, how
the heck are you doing? Doing great? I'm happy to speak to you
today about the Atlantic Division, and I never have a good or peek behind
the curtain. We're gang recording all these Eastern Conference divisions, and I never
have more than one like Quippy. And that's putting it charitably response to the
how are you doing questions? So like, I'm fresh out, Dan,
I'm fresh out, That's how I'm doing. I don't have any listeners that
your body is sore from. I don't have any make Olympic style workout you
went. Nobody cares about that, I know, and that's why that's why
I value you as a friend. Yeah, I'm trying to think what else
we could say other than we want to talk about the Boston Celtics. Yes,
and as a this will be the first one we've already recorded, sub
but this will be the first one. We're going through the big notes of
the offseason, and if if one of us forget something, the other will
say something. And of course, if you think we overlooked something, you
are free to get at us. And I'm gonna say, discord, go
join the discord. They'll like it. In the podcast, at YouTube description
and like just write to Dan's house, you know, because like a critical
letter written in longhand really hits different than I. Let you no longer take
playing for this because you made a dock yourself. I made a dock for
us, and you made your own dock would not share with me until the
day of which is pretty selfish. So you so if we if we miss
something, yeah, it's on both of us, not just me. That's
fine, But I still feel like I still want the letters to go to
you. How about I'll start We'll start with Boston. That's the alphabet again,
messing with the alphabets, as we do so well around here. Big
Moves acquired Christaps Porzingis twenty fifth pick and a Warrior's twenty twenty four first for
this is complex, but ultimately Marcus Smart Gallo Mike Muscala number thirty five in
a trade that involved the Wizards and Grizzlies kind of package of the Smart deal
into that essentially lost Grant Williams to the Mavericks ultimately structured it as a sign
and trade that got a couple of future firsts, and also the Spurs were
roped into this somehow, maybe you can speak to how that worked. I
super summarize this so I don't remember another big deal. Jalen Brown got that
max. So the numbers are all over the place. It came out,
as you know, initially like three hundred million over five years. I think
there's some dispute about that because it all depends on like how much the cap
is gonna rise, because his deal depends on its percentage of the cap.
It's a lot of money. That's all you need to know. It's in
the three point three is the number for now. Yeah, and it could
get up if the cap rises the way that people expected to rise, even
though it hasn't been projected. That's what I could get up to. Ye
cared well, and that's going to be true for several other deals. They're
kind of tricky, but it's a lot. Uh. They signed o shaber
Set I know you're a big fan, and dalan Od Banton to minimums drafted
Jordan Walsh at number thirty eight. And that's it for the big moves and
less I've forgotten something you would like to hit on, and if not,
what are your overall thoughts on how Boston conducted business this offseason? So The
only other thing I would note, and this did factor into my grade because
I thought it was smart, is they added Sam Cassell and Charles Lee from
the Bucks to Joe Buzula's coaching staff. I think he did well there.
This team is so polarizing it's not even funny because the more I think about
it, the less I like that Kris Stops Porzgis deal for them, and
I know that they ended up getting two first for Marcus Smarted Porzegis, And
I'm trying to understand how this team gets better in this situation, because the
way to look at it is, Okay, Porzegis might give you an extra
layer of shot making from almost every level. Pretty much, you're begging got
him being healthy, which is something he did in Washington, but not something
he did in Dallas or your previously. And even if Porzingis is the best
version of himself on offense, you lost Marcus Smart's playmaking and so now it's
Peyton Pritchard and Jason Tatum and Derek White and Malcolm Brogden and Jaylen Brown.
I guess that's enough by committee to offset the deficit you've even if you're getting
the peak of Christops Porzingis, how you not made yourself less versatile on the
defensive end just because Porzingis does not have nearly as much switch, Like he's
best suited as just a straight up rim protector, and there's some mobility there.
I think he actually probably had, you know, non beginning of his
New York days in general last year was like the most mobile I've seen him
look on the defensive end. I I just don't understand. And that's my
question is how does this team get better off of this trade? Or is
a way to look at it as they didn't trust Marcus Smart to age well
and so they decided to try and capitalize off their his value here and they
did. The only thing that I can't get around is I think they believe
in Porzingis because they turn out it gave him a two year was a sixty
seventy billion dollars dead shade. So it seems like it's more that just about
capitalizing on a player at Marcus Smart who did big was good at age so
well. Yeah, And I mean to that point, Marcus Smart was he
aged last year like he was markedly worse last season than the year before.
Obviously he won defensive player of the year or two years ago. He was
not at that level last season. I think this is a really hard team
for me to evaluate because if we just really zoom all the way out,
this team's problems were fairly pronounced, right. The offense bogged down, they
didn't have enough good passers, They struggled in you know, tight playoff games,
and ultimately, I think that's fair to say that it may have cost
them a championship, or at least it, you know, has cost them
significant chances to advance in the playoffs and maybe even win the whole thing.
I I don't know how they improved that, right, because now, like
they don't have any good passers on this team really, and so the Porzingis
act was Porzingis was really good last year, like just full stop was a
really good player. If he can be that, then that's exciting. I
don't he's not. He's not someone that like, oh, he really unsticks
the offense. I don't think unless they figure out different ways to use him
that make it so, you know, really good passers don't matter as much.
I don't know. I just I'm trying to think thinking you know,
positive terms for him. The other thing I'm I'm concerned about is that it
seems like al Horford is still really important and he's just way up there in
age now and has already you know, limited in terms of how much he
can play, because I don't love the Porzingis Robert Williams tandem together. I
think that's complicated because one of the two of them is gonna have to guard
in the pick and roll probably, so like that's where Horford is so helpful
to let Williams be the rover and that unlocks like the very best version of
Boston's defense. I think you got to change that with Porzingis, you know,
playing more so I ultimately I'm positive on this overall, while while conceding
all this stuff about like they didn't really solve some of their problems, I
just think Porzingis is really good. I think they probably got off smart at
the right time. I'm okay with losing Grant Williams, although like bringing him
back for that number I would have been okay with. But you can't.
I mean, this team is gonna be so expensive just with the Brown and
Tatum. Tatum's got intensive, but they almost could have used him because of
how it seems like they want to play maybe, so yeah, I think
I think o'haber said is one of the better minimum signings in the league.
I think we like him a lot. So I ended up with a BEE
here while acknowledging that, like there's a really decent chance that nothing Boston did
fixes what we all knew was wrong, it could work. It still where
this team is ridiculously talented, they're competing for a championship. They added a
guy who played at an All star level last year. It's hard to be
too critical of it, but if you really start picking around, it's hard
to see how they sort of tick the big boxes that needed to be ticked
if they want to sort of like get over the hump. I went with
a C minus because you've got good value for smart in a vacuum. But
I think that you're worse now, or at least your floor is lower,
and I don't I think a lot of people have phrased it they have a
higher ceiling but a lower floor. I just don't see the higher ceiling.
I don't, And maybe I'll understand the theory of this team when they actually
roll out on the court. I think this is the team that I'm either
going to be very right on or very wrong on with no with no one
between. I just I don't understand it. And you mentioned this stuff about
Horford. It does kind of feel like they're betting on we're just gonna have
enough collective availability from RW three, Horford and Chris stops Pord thing is to
make this work, which is fine when you're you know, you're not paying
a boatload for all those guys. It's like, you know, fifty five
million dollars for all three, which is not astronomical when you're looking at it.
Zero issues with the Jayon Brown extension. I don't know what you thought
was was going to happen. Maybe they could have held out signed him to
the full Max. I just think that the way it works right now,
that contract was going to be the contract. And so I think we're going
to approach a reckoning of Oh, can me's sub top twenty guys ever actually
be on Supermax's. We're just not there right now, and it's an uncomfortable
number. But Jalen Brown's a really good player, and to me, he's
more important than them than ever, especially defensively now that Marcus Smart is gone.
So I really it's the Porzingis swing. It makes me uncomfortable, even
though again you could look at the value that they got, that's fine.
I just are you gonna then parlay that value into something else and you've already
bet on the Porzingis move working out by going with that two seventy extension,
And I don't, like, I don't. I don't know about you,
but like I know the CAP's going up. I don't think Kristops Porzingis a
thirty five million dollars a year is guaranteed to be this this huge asset you
could go through if he's a bad year or is injured. There's at least
a one year where that deal just looks bad before becoming inspiring. It just
felt they took a risk, which I admire, that to me does not
really address they're ceiling problems. I would say, maybe I'm not. I
think yeah, I think we agree, and I think you put it right.
It's like the floors lower for sure. I think because if all the
issues that plague them are worse than like man not, you may you may
not even be in a position where you need to execute on offense to win.
In Game six of the Conference finals because you won't be there. But
I guess I'm just more optimistic about the ceiling, and if you're competing for
a title, I guess I care more about ceiling. But yeah, it's
weird. I have him as a B and I'll stay there. But I'd
completely understand the justification for a C minus. Like, I get it,
man, I mean, if we're not doing this, but like, the
Celtics are gonna be one of the most interesting teams to watch in the league
this season because of the potential variants on it, like how this whole thing
could look. Let's move on to the Brooklyn Nets. They drafted Noah Clowney
at number twenty one. They drafted to Reek Whitehead at number twenty two.
They saw it Cam Johnson to a four year, ninety four point five million
dollar contract that has no player options and is guaranteed for ninety million. They
traded Joe Harris, dallas Is twenty twenty seven second and Milwaukee's twenty twenty nine
second to Detroit. They created a nineteen point nine million dollars trade exception as
part of that deal. They traded Patty Mills and Milwaukee's twenty twenty eight second
round er to Houston for Brooklyn's own twenty twenty four second rounder. They signed
Dennis Smith Junior, They signed Lonnie Walker the fourth, and they signed Darius
Basley. Other notes, because I know that he has a cult following.
They waived Edmund Sumner Grant. How do you feel about these nets? Pretty
good? I think you know, there weren't a lot of major transactions.
I could understand if people bump on the Joe Harris move. It's just like,
we're gonna give away one of the five best shooters in the league the
last half decade. But but you know, I think if Cam Johnson's the
higher priority and you don't have an infinite amount of money you want to spend,
I could totally justify that move. I really like their minimums more than
more than most. I think Dennis Smith Junior has his problems, but he's
one of the best defensive guards in the league. Just you know, he's
all level level defender. Lonnie Walker the fourth, I really am surprised that
he didn't get more. You just I guess the market is what it is.
Basically. I don't love but but for for the minimum of those three
guys could all play and I think at least two of them definitely will.
So at the draft, I'm not going to touch I mean, you got
picks in the twenties and then a fifty first pick. I'm not going to
pretend that I imagine it can envision how those guys are gonna fit, if
at all, into the rotation this year. So for me, this is
I'll just give it. It's a C plus. Nothing great, nothing terrible,
slightly more good than bad. I still kind of don't know what this
team is because you know, they lived two lives last year, you know,
pre and post Superstar or super Team. Uh was was the cutoff?
I think we both love Bridges, we both love Claxton, I think we
both love other than Ben Simmons, the books being you know, pretty pretty
solid. So yeah, nothing, nothing wowed me. Nothing like seems like
a big problem. So it's a little better than average. That's that's about
as hot of a take as I could muster for them. Yeah, I
went with a C because because I don't know what else they were supposed to
do, and I respect them just kind of keeping their options open. Where
if you thought they needed to blow it up or consolidate, you need more
information on what this team is. I think that Cam Johnson deal was as
you mentioned, that's just perfectly fine. I was surprised, which is the
reason I couldn't go to like a C plus or maybe go to be minus
that they needed to give up stuff to get off Joe Harris. I guess
maybe he's been that rickety over the past season plus when you're looking at his
health, So there is that to consider. I'm not gonna normally I would
troll them for ducking the tax, but this is just not a team that
you're gonna pay the tax for. They don't have aspirations that they Planta Hawks
to for example, where they're trying to fancy themselves as contender, but they're
gonna duct the tax anyway. So I just think it was an average off
season for them, which is what they needed to have. Don't want to
do anything that I think tethered you to any direction one way or the other,
because you still need more information on what this team is going to be
on the floor. I like most of their minimum signings. I'm probably lower
on both Dennis Smith Junior than Lonnie Walker and Lonnie Walker the fourth than consensus,
but still at the minimum that ends up being a pretty big deal.
I actually really like Noah Clowney the theory of a rim protector who can also
space the floor. I do question like, could they have done something to
get like a little bit more girthy size on this team, just because yeah,
you have day Ron Sharp, but how much you're planning on playing him,
and now you have Noah Clowney and you have Nick Claxton, And does
Ben Zimmons factor into the big man rotation at all? It's just you feel
a little slight, is the way I would, And you figure out a
way too, I think capably or at least reasonably defend Joel and beat in
the playoffs. Regardless, I probably would have liked to have seen them gotten
just a burlier body in here to soak up those those types of reps.
Yeah, not a lot of teams where that would be a criticism, but
it definitely applies here because you don't want to have to be like drawn up
ridiculous schemes every time you face like a legitimately center sized center because you just
don't have the bulk for so they're in a weird spot with that. We
have the Knicks next are you ready, this is gonna be talk about a
quick team and that's not And look, the Knicks might have done even less,
and we're being they did. So you got Josh Hart just as we're
recording this today, got four years and eighty one million bucks as an extension.
Takes his total deal to about ninety four million through twenty seven, twenty
eight. Uh, Dante di Vincenzo comes aboard for four years and just under
fifty million, forty six point nine, and that's guaranteed it can get up
another three million or so. Obi Topping gone for a couple of seconds,
and Derrick Rose gone to Memphis. I don't know how much that matters,
but we are real short on transactions for the Knicks. Did I Did I
miss anything there? They signed Nathan Knight, Jalen Martin, and Dylan Windler
with two way contracts. They signed Jacob Toppe, they waved Trevor Keels,
and they waved and then resigned Dwayne Washington Junior. Well, so, so
I didn't miss anything this offseason? Is I saw it. There's some people
who are frustrated that Nicks weren't more active and they were never just going to
trade Julius Randall for anyone who's kind of been in that camp like it just
it wasn't gonna happen. And if you want them to acquire a star,
a star that makes sense needs to become available. Donovan Mitchell isn't back on
the trade market for Cleveland, and you could argue whether that even still makes
sense to go it he makes sense to go after they're not. They shouldn't
be a James Harden team. I wouldn't be opposed to them being a Damian
Lillard team, but you didn't make his list of teams that you wanted to
go to. What they needed was shooting. We talked about this. They
needed shooting that was good enough to crack their closing lineup. They were never
going to get that. For the non text payment level exception. I think
Devincenzo is a reasonable salary placeholder. I don't think he's a capslock shooter.
His percentage last season says otherwise. But he struggled in his early days Milwaukee,
and then he looked although he was coming off injury, he didn't look
great with the Kings necessarily, so there's a little bit of a gamble there.
Actually, I don't know, if they got great value for him,
it's reasonable value the josh Hard extension. So he's now under contract in total
for five and nine four? Right? Does that feel Does that feel right?
I mean it kind of depends on Josh Hard has had a really up
and down career. I think it's I think it's on the high side or
right probably like it's it's within the range of what would be. You know,
again, this is not a crippler, right, this isn't They're not
paying him forty million bucks a year. It's it's in the twenty neighborhood.
I think it starts at like eighteen and by the time it's over it's up
to like twenty two or twenty one and change or something like that. I
mean, I think it's totally fine. You're you're talking like you think maybe
it's a little too much for Josh Hart just on this team because the three
point volume just is there, isn't there, and it's never really been there?
And is he is he someone you view as part of your closing lineup,
because if you're gonna pay fifteen percent of the salary cap to someone you
let's just say that's what it ends up being. You probably want him to
have a shot doing that, and I just if you have Julius Randall and
Mitchell Robinson and Jalen Brunton, I don't love the Josh Hart fit there because
then you're playing him at the two three rather than I love him at the
four or three four. So a lot of this comes back to, well,
as Julius Randall long for this team or should he be. I don't
think it's a bad move, and you got him to opt in, which
gave me the flexibility this year to go out and get Dante DiVincenzo. I
think he improves your team. But it's just sort of like, Okay,
now you have Manuel Quickly and Joe and Brunton and Dante Devincenzo and R.
J. Barrett and Josh Hart and Quentin Grins, Where what are we sort
of doing with this Perimer rotation. It's not a terrible problem to have,
though, and none of these moves are damaging in the sense that unless these
players just suffered catastrophic injuries, you can't move them. I just still don't
think they made their offensive process that much easier. I don't think they and
I also don't think they opened up runway for guys like Emmanuel Quickly or r
J. Barrett to continue exploring themselves. If anything, they've kind of shrunk
the runway that those two already had. Yeah, it's a little bit like
Boston where you can be critical because they had a fairly clear set of problems
and they didn't really transact in a way that addressed them, just specifically with
the shooting in the closing lineup. I kind of think that if your criticism
of the Knicks off season is that, well, they didn't swing big,
you know, they didn't do the Randall thing, or they didn't consolidate,
they didn't you know, throw Quickly in Grimes or whatever else into a into
a deal for a shooter, or they didn't use those guys to sweeten and
Julius Randole deal, I think one it's pretty clearly those deals just weren't there
for any kind of reasonable value and too, like to your point, they
didn't do anything that that like hamstrings their ability to eventually make the big swing.
So I think I get the frustration because this team was good last year
and needed to get it was pretty but pretty clearly a notch or two below
like the real serious contending threats, and there's frustration if they don't level up.
It's just like the opportunity wasn't really there. I think it is fair
to be critical that the players that they in Heart's case, kept, in
Devincenzo's case, acquired, don't really they're kind of just like more of the
same. I mean, that's an oversimplification, but it's not so so for
me. This is a C minus. And just because they didn't do anything
bad per se, but like the quote unquote, you know, the way
they spent their money didn't didn't fundamentally change or you know, the ceiling or
and didn't certainly didn't address like what was kind of wrong with the team.
And look the other thing here, and you can and should absolutely not crucify
them for it. That's way. She was strong. But they let Obi
Toppin's value a road. I didn't even talk about that. That's totally right
now. And it's look, I don't I think a lot of people favored
as they were doing sort of him a favor and like let's keep that relationship.
You know, the agency intact blah bla bahiaa ya ya YadA, YadA
YadA. He wasn't worth much. He wasn't worth much more than they got
from which was two least favorable second round picks at this point. And I
understand that you didn't think Julius Randold was going to pop off the way he
did. You watched him win Most Improved Player three three seasons ago. At
this point, like you had more than enough time to kind of try and
make up this, like make up this ground or I should say, a
just recalibrate, and you didn't. I penalize them for that a little bit.
And to your point, I do not. I want to make this
clear. You already mentioned this. I mentioned this. The big swing wasn't
out there. I think you could lament should they have been in on Max
Streuss, like someone who gives you more functional shooting maybe than a DiVincenzo.
Okay, sure, but that's not Oh we missed out on Max Strus like
the Knicks get a D. It's this is evidence and I don't know.
This did not factor into my grade. I want to make it clear,
but I think it's a worthwhile talking point. And we know how I feel
about the Knicks. This was evidence that we have seen, to use this
word again, the erosion of what their best trade package is because Obie Toppin
was no longer an asset. We're talking about all these first round picks that
they can move to Detroit and Washington picks specifically, are those even gonna convey
You have to ask yourself that question. The Knicks owned picks, if they're
gonna be good, Yes, they could still be viewed in the same vein
as oh, we got a King's first rounder. I just think the Knicks
had probably been so I would say mostly rational with how they've gone about building
their team and how the front office has reacted. Those first round picks are
not gonna bull you over unless you're giving out a bunch of them where it's
what we saw the package was when Cleveland went all in Donovan Mitchell or Minnesota
went all in on Rudy Gobert and Emmanuel quickly's extension eligible. So he's either
even if you don't extend him, he's not gonna be super valuable to trade
and knowing you have to pay him, or is he going to be as
valuable coming on his next deal. RJ has already been paid. We have
just slowly seen the gradation of their best trade package go from Wow, the
Knicks are best positioned to land this star to now Okay, yeah, they
can still make an offer. Will it be the best offer? The answer
is no. We've already seen him get out bid when it came to Mitchell,
which is again fine. We both said we would not have made that
trade if they were them. But now you're getting to a point where other
teams are coming up in their timelines where it's could okay, see or New
Orleans eventually get involved. Here Utah is floating around with all these assets.
So I'm I'm not down on the Knicks. I want to make that clear,
but this offseason did not advance their long term agenda in any way,
shape or form. If anything, I think it took away from it a
little bit. So I ended up with a C. I wanted to go
a little bit lower because I think that they missed the boat on Obie topping.
But I do think to get someone who's as talented in theory as Devincenzo
just for like the minimum, I think an average off season, it's perfectly
fair because you look at that and say, Okay, well, they didn't
do anything that they shouldn't have where it's there might have been the impetus of
where we just made it to the second round. We have to get better,
we have to do this even if it's not worth it, and they
did resist that temptation. I'm gonna ask you like a philosophical next question,
because you've been through forever. It was we're gonna wait, or we're gonna
just hunt, you know, whether it's back to the Kevin Durant off season,
We're like, we're gonna, we're gonna bring in these stars. We're
gonna we're biding our time, and it's just like it didn't work out,
or and or you go back farther like we're gonna pay Amri Stadomire a ton
of money, We're gonna trade for Carmelo, all this others. You've got
the team so we can get them. So there were all these like really
like you know, their aims were high, like they in terms of like
the types of players that are trying to get, and it was always just
kind of there were lulls in between when the Knicks would try to take a
big swing on someone. Do you think that since this new management structure has
taken shape and the team has actually been run kind of like in a rational
way. Do you think that's still the idea of like, well, we're
gonna we're just kind of we're holding onto these assets we're waiting for, like
the big trade or signing or signings that are going to really change our fate.
Signings are a little harder now because of their current commitments. But like,
is it that or is it more like we're just gonna try to run
a sane operation that doesn't grossly overpay for guys. We're gonna be good,
We're gonna be in the playoffs, and if we if it so happens that
we, you know, have an opportunity to get a start, great,
But we're just gonna kind of we're just gonna try to be good and rational
for a while and see how that feels. Or is it still like this
is just they're just waiting. They're trying to do both, but they're they're
just waiting. They're biding their time, and quite frankly, they have to
because there's no one on the roster right now that you look at and say,
yeah, there's jail and runs in, but who's going to become our
second north Star? And there's just no one that's that's the I mean,
the RJ. Barrett ship has sailed on that front quite frankly, and because
you're so capable now, you're probably not going to be in a position to
draft that individual either, And so I think they're just waiting, which again,
it's fine. I don't think it's I'm not it's it's a C.
And I could probably talk to a C minus just because I feel like I
didn't love anything they did. But I'm trying to step away and say the
Josh Hard contract is just reasonable. They didn't overpay, I don't think,
and if they did, it was by a hair. Dante de Vincenzo,
if he's the player he was last season, ends up helping you a ton.
Yeah. I think it's interesting that the Knicks are kind of in there
a little better than like in the quote unquote middle, but they're sort of
ducking a lot of the criticism that we level at other like middling teams like
Chicago or I don't know who else to throw in there. And I think
it's just because they haven't gone and done the like the DeRozan signing, or
like the Lavigne extension like they haven't, or the Vujevitch trade like they don't.
They haven't made those types of moves, just piling on Chicago right now.
Ye're just in the Chicago section like like snuck into the New York but
it isn't that, you know. I wonder then, like how much longer
do we do this, what the Knicks are doing, before we start getting
like pick a direction, guys, before we start throwing that at him.
I think they're also rightfully so riding the high of well they were right about
John Brunson when everyone else, including us, were wrong. Not even the
money, just the process by which they acquired him. And I just wondered,
was he going to be as good on the Knicks outside of Dallas is
facing and then the Mitchell Robinson deal looks like, yeah, he was marginalized
the points to the playoffs, but that was something we missed on as well.
Drews ran on a bounce back campaign. They've proven that they know what
they're doing. I just don't. I don't know what the ceiling this team
ceiling is currently constructed, feels the same as it was last season. I
don't know where that internal growth comes from. It's probably Quentin Grimes quickly RJ
Barrett all taking that next step. I just think the moves they've made have
made it much harder for those guys to do that. Yeah, the product's
gonna be good, and the Knicks are gonna do a lot of the right
things and run a lot of things the right way. But it's always a
little bit uneasy. It's an uneasy feeling when you're trying to envision what the
next great Knicks team looks like and like a couple of these guys are on
that team that most of them aren't, and so then it's like, what
are we doing here? But it's like hard to quibble with. They're going
to be in the playoffs again, they'll probably win around or two. Like
that's that's good. We should have a break, right, Yeah, they
could make the conversation. There are three teams above them, for sure,
and that's Cleveland, it's Milwaukee. I don't even know if I feel confident
putting Boston man. Wow, Yeah, So just so you're you're in a
good spot. I just don't know what you did to improve your flexibility now
or later. And maybe I'm again a sea is average for anyone who gets
mad there. I should take us onto the Philadelphia seventy six Ers. The
Knicks cannibalize some of the nets time, but that's that's fine. Uh.
The Sixers fired Doc Rivers, they hired Nick Nurse, They sighed Bobamba,
They signed Patrick Beverley. They re signed Montrez Harrold, who has since torn
inn ACL. They matched an offer sheet on Paul Reid for three years twenty
five and a half million that is only guaranteed in year one, but the
second two years will guarantee if Philly wins an opening round of the twenty twenty
four playoffs. And they signed Philip patruss of I just want to throw that
in there, ex I knew that you cared about that. Other notes,
though they're not moves. The John McDaniels left for the Raptors on a two
year nine point three million dollars contract, George and Nyang left for the Calves
on a three year twenty five point five million dollars contract that declines in salary,
and the Timberwolves signed Shake Milton to a two year, ten million dollars
deal that's non guaranteed for year two. And as we know, probably the
biggest note on this team, James Harden opted in and then requested a trade.
He is right now as we record this, still a member of the
Philadelphia seventy six ers. Grant, what do you There's a level of incompleteness
here, I will say, but it's not on the same level as Miami
or even Portland. There's like a level of you guys done fucked up?
Yeah that is we could st up there. I think I think that's our
that's our sessment. No, I think that's right. Like, you know,
the so we've talked about downside risk a couple of times. The downside
here of just you know, Harden is gonna make it uncomfortable, like that's
just what happens, it seems like. And and this isn't the case of
the Heat. The Heat were incomplete when we did them, which will air
later for like a completely opposite reason. It's like, well, they might
get this guy for the Sixers. It's like, well, they they're incomplete
because they might trade this guy Hardened, but we don't know what that's gonna
net them. It's like, is he what what are the you know,
the whatever the Clippers packages like maybe it maybe it replenishes some depth, but
you're just not going to get someone that's you know, and Harden was like,
you know, I'm not a big hardened fan generally speaking, but like
he was an All Star player last year. He was very good for a
lot of the season. The playoffs when you look at some of they catch
all metrics like he should have been ashed you in for all NBA? Yeah,
yeah, no, And I mean the playoffs went how they went.
We got some real highs and we got some lows. We got some real
hard and lows in there just to make sure that the narrative stayed what it
was. So I it's an F. It's an F right now for me,
and there is a slashing complete there because it could definitely get better.
But I think maybe what we haven't talked about and maybe you could speak to
this is like what has happened to this offseason and too and it does have
like tails that go further back a year or so, involving Harden and involving
more. You've now made it super foreseeable that Joe lmbiid says I'm good,
guys, time time to go. I'm going to be the next one.
Now. That's I don't know how you factor that into an off season grade.
It's not going to lower it because I already gave him an F.
But like the way they've operated brings that as a into into like the realm
of possibility in a pretty significant way, where had things gone differently, that
would not be the case. So I don't know, I'm curious if you
were as down on it as me. The team is gonna be worse just
overall talent wise, Like losing Shake Milton is not is not nothing, Losing
Nyang is not nothing. Even losing Jail McDaniels is not nothing. And then
you basically have Embid, you have Tobias Harris, you have Tyris Maxi and
whatever you get for Harden, like that's your new core. You're worse.
And this is a team that's trying to win a title, So you're worse,
and you're potentially like catastrophically worse. So I could not get behind this
offseason I with an F as well. There's look, I think you look
at the players they could have kept their all rotation players, and you say,
well, none of them are just like can't miss, and they're clearly
trying to preserve flexibility for next summer, which is why they're not going to
extend tyris MAXI maybe some people factor that as part of their great again.
You can't go lower unless you're gonna go in F minus. I try to
give out only one a maximum of one F minus per conference, and spoiler
alert, it's not gonna be to this team. Sometimes sometimes there's no F
minus has given out. I don't think either of us gave out in F
minus last year, if I'm not mistaken. So here's my thing two,
the two things that stand out. So forget the players that left, which
you I think I'm most uncomfortable with John McDaniels leaving just because of what they
gave up to get him, and you kind of need that type of players.
Let's start here with the hardened stuff. You know what happened last offseason
where he took that pay cut, and the reports now are you were only
willing to go one plus one on him this year, even if that was
for the full max. It's like, I understand why Harden's kind of aggrieved.
I don't think he has necessarily a ton of leverage. I think he's
better equipped to navigate this than Damian Lillard because he will make shit uncomfortable for
everyone. But I kind of get it. You asked him to take this
pay cut, and yes, you could say, well, we're playing the
market. Who is going to give him that money? I just I feel
like they really miss hand was there. Did they really envisioned Harden going from
taking miss one plus one to then taking another one plus one so that you
could float cap space that would either entail one getting rid of him or two
him taking another pay cut. I just I don't understand that. And then
two, why do you care so much about cap space? Now? We
just saw that it's not gonna do anything like, yeah, maybe you get
a Fred van Fleet level player. And if the idea is we're gonna get
og Naoby from the Raptors, is og ha a nob v guy that you
plan your entire two years worth of cap space around? Is that the guy?
And then oh, hey, also, you just hired his former coach
and Nick Nurse, So I think it's probably a tactical upgrade over Doc Rivers.
So let's give them that. That's the f plus move of the of
the off season. But everything we hear coming out of Toronto, both publicly
and behind the scenes, is that most of the players despised Nick Nurse,
And so was your grand idea to get og and a Nooby to come play
for Nick Nurse? Again? Did Oganaoby have that type of relationship with Nick
Nurse? I don't understand what they're doing, and you've now created at best
unless unless Harden has a change of heart. But they're tracking towards a gap
year with Joel Embiide and you just don't have that kind of time to squander.
You need to operate with more organized urgency, and this is like very
lazy far like aimlessness. It sort of feels like right now And the only
thing that I think can change this grade is do they somehow get enough out
of a James Harden trade to turn around and then acquire another star. But
even then, I'm like, if you go from having James Harden, you
get this asset package back, but you still need to include Tyres Maxi to
get that other star. You now have to bake that into the opportunity cost
of this next player cost us James Harden and Tyres Maxie, because I don't
think you can trade one first round pick right now? You can trade one,
So are you getting enough back in a James Harden trade to attach to
that one first round pick to keep Maxie and then go get a star.
I guess we should leave open the possibility, but I honestly it's not going
to happen from the Clippers, that's for sure. So this is it's an
f it's a TBD because we do need to see how this plays out.
But right now to death. Yeah, nothing to add just other than every
team has like a spectrum of possible outcomes, like small picture, big picture.
The Sixers just added a big section of like this is good disastrous,
like we are going to be starting over after we had trade Joel Embiad which
you'll get a lot for him. But like that, that's now a very
big part of their possible future. You know, scenarios not great. Let's
see, do I have the Raptors or do you have the Raptors? The
Raptors. All right, here we go. We signed the I played for
the Raptors. Now as you know that, they signed Yaka Pearl to a
four year, eighty million dollars deal with the player option. Gary Trent Junior,
surprisingly to me anyway, opted in for eighteen point six million. Dennis
Shrewder is on board for two years and twenty five. Jalen McDaniels. We
just talked about him with the six or two years nine point three million auto
Porter Junior opted in after just basically missing the entire year. That was not
a surprise six point three million for him. The Raptors drafted Grady Dick at
number thirteen. They fired Nick Nurse and hired Darko. Uh, I've spelled
it wrong, so I can't read it now. Where is it on your
sheets? Darko Ryakovich? Ryakovitch? I know it was like Stoyakovitch? What
did I wrote? Ya? Yakovich? Terrible? Lost Fred van Vleet.
I'm sure we'll discuss that, and lost Donald Banton? And uh, did
I miss anything of consequence other than that? I feel like you weren't critical
enough when you were going through the list of moves, is like kind of
a what the fuck face? And they did They waved doing that for you.
I was gonna give you the runway there because they waved. They waved
Joe weez Camp. That matters. But you mentioned Gary Trent Junior? Is
he? And congratulations, by the way, the Garrett Temple for continuing his
run of just being a locker room getting paid fix our disastrous locker room.
Uh so there's the Pascal Siakam trade rumors that are floating around out there.
I assume Gary Trent junior extension is going to be coming, because, like
I said, I couldn't identify the team that was gonna pay him more,
but I like I was that he opted in. So those are the other
two notes this team. You talk about a disastrous offseason. This is now
the second time in a row they let a franchise Cornerstone walk for basically nothing,
and you know it's even more egregious. You could argue they think Kyle
Lowry is solid, he was past his heyday. They got precious a chew
out of him. Fine pregatively left for two years to guarantee years. And
you couldn't muster up like the ability to well, okay, we'll be in
attack, but we'll figure out how to cut that down later. Maybe it's
a Chris Bouche trade. And do we get rid of Otto Porter junior?
Do we move those other pieces around? And yet you turn around after giving
up a top six protected first round pick for Yaka Purdle. He kind of
had you with the bird rights trap. You just gave twenty million dollars a
year, which is still let's say, fifteen percent of the salary cap.
Moving forward to someone who probably can't close games for you right now because of
his free throw shooting, at least not most of the games. And part
of the reason you did that is because you traded a lightly protected first rounder
for him, like the oh, well, we've definitely let's throw the good
money after bad now. I mean, I don't know how you factor that
into the offseason, but like, the trade they made to get him is
very much part I think of why they paid him what they did to keep
him. And by the way, you let the player who assisted on one
third of his baskets just leave for nothing, for no conversation, you don't
get to spend that in a good way. Okay, Dennis Sugar might be
fine. Jim McDaniel's nice signing. Your floor spacing is dog shit even more
than it was so last season. And I like the Grady Dick pick,
which is the like the saving grace of this offseason. But like, this
team is going through and it's not just this summer, it's now a year's
long existential crisis, and we are far enough removed from the bubble escapade,
from the season they spent in Tampa's where they need to have a better hold
on who they are and where they're going. They do not. This was
I I try to give himssau Jerry the benefit of the doubt, but this
was this was This was an off season that was just straight up fuck shit.
And I don't say that lately again in F minus. This was the
worst off season in the league. And I don't know, you don't you
know what, even if they turn around and trade Siaka, we get a
bunch of value for him, or if they turn around and then double down
and acquire someone who really helps them, it is what they need that's not
gonna salvage. They're great for me because you let this player who is mission
critical to what you're doing leave for nothing at a time when that just doesn't
happen anymore. This was I just don't know. Yes, you have Scotty
Barnes, still you've not made the spacing environment around him any easier to make
him work on the ball. And I still believe in Scotty Barnes. I
think this team has a lot of talent, but what is their aim,
what is their angle? What are they doing? I have no idea.
And you know what really bugs me is I don't think this is a situation
where and just based off people I've asked this question too, we're thirty thousand
feet removed from the situation where it's, oh, well, we don't see
what they're doing, but there's like something going on. No, this team
has no fucking clue what it's doing behind the scenes. Either they are spinning
their wheels. They don't know what's happening. This is probably one of the
most inflammatory things I said in the podcast in the last year, and I'm
trying to be like full talking ahead about it. How are you I was
so high on the Raptors leading into last season. They I was wrong.
They were clearly wrong, but like they were wrong in a way where they
didn't even recalibrate what they doubled down and then they still left Fred van Fleet
walk. How how do you give them a higher grade than the lowest grade
possible? Can we give an F minus minus? Well, I stopped at
F, so I'm way higher on it than than you are. But yeah,
it's it's an F for me. I think the only I mean,
it's like being a dead horse. But like you could go down all their
major transactions of the last year and say, like, well, they should
have done the opposite, did not trade Fred van Fleet, should have traded
him. I'm gonna so now, I always much more than you do.
I am always of the mind, well, you gotta trade this guy now,
because the possibility of him leaving for nothing would just be catastrophic. And
it's and you're right, that doesn't happen that often because you can structure it
as a sign and trade. There's just there's ways to prevent that. But
now you better believe I'm gonna bring up the Fred van Fleet example a lot
when I started talking about guys on expiring deals that you should trade or you
know, certainly trade them before they get to the expiring year of their deal.
I think you should have traded Gary Trent. You should have had some
idea of what like you can't just be in a position and this gets to
the larger point off like something feels kind of rotten in Toronto, just like
holistically, you can't be in a position where I gotta believe they were surprised
that he opted in. I assume because if if you, if you'd had
conversations and that was going to be his plan. I think he probably would
have traded him or are you and said, and you just don't make the
purple trade full stop, because what was the purpose of that, like just
you trying to get better last year? Do you think he's a key piece
of what if he's the piece of the team going forward, what is that
team supposed to be? I think he helped as like an actual screener and
roller guy. He helped Fred van Fleet. But let walk away. It's
just like it just yeah, so it's an f for me. If I
were giving F minuses, this would be the worst stops. This to me
is the worst offseason. And it's because you get a little bit of everything,
Like you get the mismanaged assets leading into it, you get a bad
signing, you get the big picture of like this team just does not seem
to have a handle on like what direction it's going or how to get there.
So you get it all with toronto. You want to take us out
of here. Yeah, let's end on that note. As always, thank
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more later. And apologies to share down